Because your spirit of truth is the prophet Muhammad and we believe him to be a false prophet. This happened in my life where his laws were instantly imparted into my life by his spirit. Alcoholism fell away.
Smoking fell away. Lies, cheating, deceit, all those things fell away. See, each and every born again that I meet, he is telling me, he is confessing that he was a drunkard, he was an adulterer, he used to speak Daha and on and on. What I feel is that my brother and my sister, they don't seem to be understanding my English. Because I'm repeating again and again a single statement made by Jesus.
I am God, a worshipper. You must say that, look, we haven't got any such statement. Tell us frankly, you haven't got it?
After delivered a lecture on Christ in Islam in City Hall Durban on August 1983, Shaikh Ahmed Didat encountered by a couple of Christian missionaries for having a further talks in the studio. Even though he was alone, Shaikh Didat proved that if what was conveyed was the real truth then no matter how many opponents there were, they would not be able to defeat him. So ladies and gentlemen whoever you are, whether Muslim or Christian, watch this interesting discussion until the end and you be the judge of this clip. The Christ in Islam is not God, the Christ in Islam is not crucified and risen, the Christ in Islam is not the Son of God, and therefore the Christ in Islam is not the Christ of Christian scripture and Christian faith. Or Christian belief, I would say rather.
Because there are things now that I can also explain from the scriptures, that the thing that you are talking about is his divinity. His deity. His deity. We said, now look, you have misread the statement that he had made. So in other words, Jesus Christ in his lifetime, he didn't make any such claim to deity to say that I am God or worship me.
And in that talk of mine, I was challenging the people. I said, look, there is not a single unequivocal statement where this claim is to be found. Unequivocal means to say that I am God or worship me. And I was challenging my audience that if you can produce any such verse. In the 66 books of the Protestants or 73 of the Roman Catholics, I am prepared to accept it.
That offer is still open to you. I'd like to answer that challenge because throughout Christian history and throughout the Christian Church, there are many different emphases and many different perspectives in terms of peripheral understanding. But the central revelation, and I say revelation, the central revelation...
In the Christian Church, down throughout the ages, of all different streams and emphasis, there is no doubt whatever about the deity of Jesus. I believe we can overcome this problem if we recognize that the Christian scriptures indicate that the revelation of Jesus as Lord, the revelation of the deity of Jesus in the Holy Scriptures, is not mere... rational deduction.
No one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit. And if our gospel is hidden it is hidden to them that are lost, in whom the God of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not, lest they should believe. And let me just give you one scripture but the whole of the scriptures to the Christian spirit is a clear declaration of the deity of Jesus.
And in Romans chapter 8 verse 7 says that the carnal mind is not subject to the Word of God is hostile and unable to receive it so the fact that to the Christian throughout the ages the revelation of the deity of Jesus is is obvious is counterbalance the scriptures warned that the unbeliever will not see it and your inability to see it emphasizes that truth now let me just try one scripture on you and you will find a way of rationalizing around it because the revelation of the Spirit is not there. In John chapter 5, for example, we read in verse 23, in order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father. Now to the Christian, that is not a debatable issue.
That is a revelation of the equality of the Son with the Father. As in Philippians chapter 2, equality with God was not to be grasped. but he divested himself and became a man.
Now you're a theologian and you... these truths but the the carnal mind which is unable to receive the revelation of the deity of Jesus Christ has to find a rational explanation but I want to submit respectfully for this No Christian would dream of interpreting Quranic scripture, Islamic scripture, as over against the teachings of Islam. And therefore, in the same light, we are not going to...
submit to an Islamic interpretation of Christian scripture. It is for Christian teachers, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, to interpret Christian scripture. Jonathan, you see, you have escaped the simple English word that I used.
I said unequivocal. I said, there is not a single unequivocal statement, I'm repeating, where Jesus says, I'm God, or where he says, worship me. Now, you have been reading the words of John.
I said, Jesus, where Jesus says, makes this claim. So, you presuppose that the person must have some kind of this different feeling, you know, being born again, having the spirit in you, only then he's entitled to see and read. I feel that you are pre-condemning. the man's approach to the book because your learned men they tell us that if the plain reading of scripture makes common sense seek no other sense And that is exactly what I want you to do and I would like to do myself Simple statements where man says I'm God That means he must be God.
He says worship me. He deserves to be worshiped Not your interpretation or my interpretation What does the book say this scripture because you You are giving the impression as if Christianity was unanimous in what you are talking now. Absolutely unanimous about the deity of Jesus Christ. But you know the Nicene Creed in the year 325 under Constantine, it was by a show of hands, democratically it was, the only God who was democratically appointed was Jesus Christ.
That means there was a show of hands and according to the show of hands they voted in favour of what Constantine wanted them to be. to believe. But there have been religious persecutions on the grounds of the deity of Christ for the past 2000 years. Millions have been massacred for that.
You have today even, the Jehovah's Witnesses. They are Christians. They don't agree with you. They say they are Christians.
The Christadelphians, they say they are Christians, they don't agree with you. The Unitarians, they say they are Christians, they don't agree with you. And the common man, when I meet the common man, they all agree with me. ordinary man, the man in the street, when I asked him, pointedly, do you believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate? He said, no, no, he's the son of God.
I hardly find a person who is prepared to own up and say that the Almighty is the Son of God. God came down to earth in the form of a man he was incarnated he took flesh and in the form of Jesus Christ but I don't know that the born-again Christians they make such claims but I said look let us go back to the scripture the Jehovah's Witnesses say go back to the scripture the seven-day Adventist says go back to the scripture and I'm sure the right right attitude should be that you and I we should go back to the scripture show me a verse a statement made by Jesus where he says, I'm God, and that we should worship him. May I at this point show you such a... Yes, you may.
I'm going to speak now just scripture. The fact that Jesus existed, he existed before he became a man. Jesus is the name that was given to him when he was incarnate. All right?
As a man, he was named Jesus. He existed before he became a man written in Micah chapter 5 verses 1 and 2. Again Jesus speaks of himself as existing before Abraham and before the world was created. Which is to be found in John chapter 8 verse 58. Also in 17, John 17 verse 5. Also in John 5 verse 24. He is spoken of as the creator. and upholder of all things which is in Colossians 5 verse 15 to 17 in Hebrews 1 verse 1 to 3 we also see in the book of Genesis that God speaks about creating when he speaks about creating he says let us create then we go into New Testament teaching and we find that New Testament refers to Jesus as the creator and upholder of all things. So, scripture has now spoken.
Madame... Irene, thank you. Sorry, before we go on, I thought...
We have quite a few topics to discuss today in this very short one hour... discussion. Do you feel, Jonathan and Irene, that Akhmed has answered some of your questions?
Or do you feel you still have not got the answers on this particular topic? Oh, I am very satisfied that we have established the divide between us. Right. Well, at that point, that is correct. Can I ask you, would you like to give just a brief reply?
Yes, I will give you a brief reply. And then if we can move on to the next topic, please. Yes.
What I feel is that my brother and my sister, they don't seem to be understanding my English. Because I'm repeating again and again a single statement made by Jesus. I am God, or worship me. Sisters quoting Colossians, quoting Hebrews, I say who are these?
Who is Hebrew and who is Colossians? This is Paul. this is Paul I am speaking about Jesus what did he say to make me to believe that he is God and that I should worship him no it's not coming forward either they don't understand my English I said unequivocal they don't understand English I said a single statement made by Jesus They don't seem to understand my English. I don't know how we can proceed on that basis. You must say that, look, we haven't got any such statement.
Tell us frankly, you haven't got it. But now we have this. What have you to say about that?
We have this. What have you to say about that? And I'll be happy to deal with it.
Like you said in the book of Genesis, God speaking, He says, let us create man. This us in the Trinitarian Christian's mind stands for Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Now I said, look, you don't know Hebrew. Arabic and Hebrew, as well as every Eastern language, has two types of plurals. They have a plural of numbers and they have a plural of respect.
Elohim, that is the Hebrew word, you know, Im is the plural of respect in Hebrew. Because no Jew for 4,000 years, you know, did they ever believe that God Almighty was Father, Son and Holy Ghost or Father Moses and somebody else? they had no such concept. When they said, Ila Uwe Im, they understood the one and only God. In the Holy Quran, same, Semitic language, Hebrew and Arabic sister languages, it speaks, Innaa Nahnu Nazannat Zikra Wa Innaa Laaqatina that it is for us to send down the revelation and it is for us to protect it.
Ask any Muslim, who is this us? Whether it is Muhammad, God Almighty, Muhammad and the Holy Ghost, the Gabriel, or anybody else. He says, no, no, no, it's God Almighty himself. But who is this us?
He says, look, in our language we have two types of plurals. This is a plural of respect, like in royal proclamations. So I can explain, verse by verse, if you put it to me, he says, what have you to say of that? this but I still stand that there is not a single and at revoke a statement where Jesus says I'm God or where he says worship me on the contrary he says my father is greater than I my father is greater than all he said I cannot my own self do nothing as I hear I judge and my judgment is righteous because I seek not my own will but the will of him that sent me said of that day know what no man no not the angels not the son but the father in heaven you have identified the spirit of truth as the prophet Muhammad is that right now in Christian revelation the spirit of truth is God the Holy Spirit and he will lead us into all truth and that's where we differ most emphatically again because your spirit of truth is the prophet Muhammad and we believe him to be a false prophet and our spirit of truth is none other than God the Holy Spirit of truth to whom Jesus bore witness and the distinction between the prophet Muhammad and his prohibition prohibitions and the spirit of truth which is the spirit of God is the distinction between prohibition on the one hand and self-control on the other and that is why the Christian virtue is not so much Submitting to legalistic prohibitions, but walking in the spirit of self-control and that's a very important distinction It is very nice and easy To make flowery statements about the spirit that is working within you and what? voluntary control.
But we see it doesn't happen in humanity. In South Africa there are 200,000 white alcoholics. Whites. Among the coloureds, which are Christians, you see the Malay is a Muslim coloured, an identity he carries. The coloured is a Christian coloured.
Five times the amount of alcoholics as any other race in the country. Of the Indians and the Africans we have no statistics. Now had it been that if you had a white alcoholics, you stood by the legalistic, as you say, prohibition. As Jesus Christ spoke in so many things, legalistically he spoke about divorce, legalistically he spoke about adultery. Had he the opportunity, and if the disciples had the capacity to receive them, He said, I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now.
Means you haven't got the capacity. For that reason I am leaving to somebody else. And if that Holy Spirit is that Holy Ghost, in two thousand years, I will be able to say to you, I have been asked in 2000 years, this Holy Ghost has not given you a single new thing. Jesus said, I have yet many, many in English means more than one. All, all truth means more than one.
I am asking, all churches and denominations have been asking, posing this question to. Perhaps you as a born again Christian, you might be able to supply the answer. No doubt about it.
Right. Akhmet, what is it we can give to our arena channels as well? In 2000 years, I am asking this Holy Spirit to any. church give me one new truth, only one, that Jesus Christ was not able to give in so many different words, one new.
I'm asking, I haven't received it yet. The simple word of that is that the Holy Spirit came after Jesus had ascended and revealed to the disciples the whole truth of the birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension, kingly reign and return of Jesus. But only the Holy Spirit can reveal that to a darkened heart.
Irene, have you a comment please? Yes please. I would like to... say that there's a a difference between just the world in general and one who is walking in the laws and statutes of God as brought about by Jesus Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. I am a living example and I'm not the only one as you might well have heard today there are millions around the world of born-again believers who have a real relationship with the Messiah Jesus Christ in his salvation capacity he says in his word that he shall write his laws upon our hearts and the Holy Spirit shall lead us and guide us into all truth so in my life in particular I have had a drastic change brought about from my relationship with Jesus Christ before I had that living relationship I was just such a one as those in the world that would drinking, smoking and doing whatever I saw fit in my own sight.
But when I came into the living reality of the Lord Jesus Christ as given to us in John chapter 3, that no man shall enter the kingdom of God lest he be born again by the Spirit of God. When that took place in my life, living reality, you said you haven't seen anyone that these things have happened to. This happened in my life where his laws were instantly imparted into my life by his spirit.
Alcoholism fell away, smoking fell away, lies, cheating, deceit, all those things fell away, and I became a living example of the power of the message of salvation through Jesus Christ. Madam, I didn't say that I didn't come across a single Christian who would be, you know, a good example of what a good Muslim or a good Christian would be, but this This born-again cultism that you are talking about, you see, when you look at in the world today, you are talking about millions. America claims, according to Billy Graham in his book, How to be Reborn, there are 70 million born-again Christians in America.
70 million, that's about one-third. Yet in that nation, in June. 300,000 sodomites, they gathered in San Francisco on a pilgrimage, led by 50 lesbians and motorcycles.
In this country, which claims to be a Christian country, at Buffalo, only yesterday, was it a few weeks ago, in Buffalo, outside Port Elizabeth. These Christian women, absolutely naked, with bare breasts, not Christian. This is where we differentiate.
It was organized by a Christian society, the Buffalo Rally. So cool. Christians, they call themselves. And they had this woman having intercourse with black men in public.
This was videotaped, which you can't buy today because it's censored. So I said, look, a system that can save half a dozen here and there, or 70 million as they claim in America. It's a good system that if you can save a few.
But a system which stops you from being a drunkard. You see, each and every born again that I meet, he is telling me, he is confessing that he was a drunkard, he was an adulterer, he used to speak Dacha and on and on. Not one of them said, look this system saved me. As a Muslim I can say, and millions of Muslims can say, that look, we don't touch alcohol because my system prohibits it. I haven't touched it.
I don't know what it tastes like. and I'm not likely to touch it because my system says no. The biggest society of teetotalers in the world are the Muslims.
Simply because straightforward, directly we were told don't touch alcohol, we don't touch it. Don't gamble, we don't gamble. Don't dance, we don't dance. So in other words a system that can stop you from falling into the Maya is a better system than a system that extricates you, salvages you, which you are salvaged. I say congratulations to you.
You are also salvaged as you say you are born again. I say congratulations to you. Praise the Lord.
Right. But I said the system that stops you from falling into that maya is a better system than the one that allows you to go in. Let me quote and end with the scripture, the words of Jesus himself. He says, verily, verily I say unto you, accept your righteousness, exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees. we shall by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
We Muslims, we stand by that. That you, the Christians, his followers, you must be better than the Jew, otherwise there is no heaven for you. This shortcut of blood is something that is pagan in its origin.
Thank you. Thank you very much.