Joe Rogan Experience: Debate on Archaeology and Lost Civilizations

Jun 5, 2024

Joe Rogan Experience: The Joe Rogan Experience with Flint and Graham about Archaeology and Lost Civilizations

Introduction

  • Host: Joe Rogan
  • Guests: Flint (Archaeologist), Graham (Author)
  • Introduction focusing on archaeology and its modern interpretation, debates, and connection to ancient civilizations.

Flint's Presentation

Flint’s Introduction

  • Passionate about educating the public on archaeology.
  • Believes that people often have a misunderstanding about modern archaeology.
  • Technical issues briefly addressed.
  • Focus on explaining artifacts, data collection, and the importance of archaeological analysis.

Explaining Athenian Artifacts

  • Example: Athenian red figure showing explicit imagery.
  • Discussed its context in ancient Athens and connections to archaeology.
  • Main point: Archaeology focuses on patterns, not just individual artifacts.

Big Data in Archaeology

  • Mapping archaeological sites in the Horn of Africa: 171,000 surveyed sites.
  • Emphasis on using big data and technology in modern archaeology (e.g., LiDAR).
  • Example: Findings in Guatemala using laser scanning revealed 61,800 structures.

Flint’s Own Research

  • Focus on big data, studying over a million animal remains from Ancient Greece.
  • Usage of isotope analysis to understand diet and movement in past landscapes.

Debate on Graham's Lost Civilization Hypothesis

  • Explains why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
  • Tackles the lack of direct, dated evidence of Graham’s proposed civilization.
  • Archaeological consensus that a global advanced Ice Age civilization is unlikely.

Focus Areas for Rebuttal

  • Underwater archaeology and Ice Age coastlines' evidence for hunter-gatherer traces, not advanced civilizations.
  • Emphasizes the fragility and survivability of historical evidence.
  • Questions Graham’s evidence by highlighting the lack of physical proof such as shipwrecks or metal emission traces.

Graham’s Presentation

Responding to Flint’s Introduction

  • Recognizes past appearances and long discussion history with Joe Rogan.
  • Points to areas underserved by archaeology (Sahara Desert, Amazon Rainforest, submerged continental shelves).
  • Cites examples like shipwrecks off the coast of Italy to show preservation underwater.

Debate on Clovis First Model

  • Discusses the long-standing debate on whether the Clovis culture was the first in the Americas.
  • Highlights past opponents to pre-Clovis evidence, like Jac Sank Mars and Tom Dillaha.
  • Instances of archeologists facing harsh backlash and ultimately being validated.

Describing Lost Civilizations

  • Argues for a past advanced civilization, referring to myths and legends from various cultures about a civilizing hero (e.g., Quetzalcoatl).
  • Points out myths of advanced knowledge and sciences which might not align with mainstream archaeological timelines.

Emphasis on Overlooked Archaeologies

  • Highlights vast areas and significant gaps in archaeological investigation that might conceal evidence of ancient civilizations.
  • Engages in a discussion around the interpretation of existing myths and legends in support of his hypothesis.

Specific Examples

Bimini Road Debate

  • Discussion on whether it’s a man-made structure or natural formation.
  • Challenges around the credibility of sources and separating true archaeological evidence from perceived anomalies.

Analysis of Ancient Monuments (Gobekli Tepe)

  • Discusses Gobekli Tepe and its potential link to a lost civilization’s technology transfer.
  • Furthers debate on astronomy, agriculture, and ancient constructions.

Skeptics' Arguments

Flint's Rebuttals on Gobekli Tepe and Agriculture

  • Debunks the notion of domesticated plants and agriculture during the Ice Age using abundant data points and studies focusing on crop domestication timelines.
  • Explains evolutionary adaptation in wild to domesticated crops and emphasis on local evolution rather than introduced agriculture.
  • Stresses the improbability of Graham’s theory given the evidence for slow and localized agricultural development post-Ice Age.

Technical Arguments and Data

  • Introduces scientific data collection methods like coring and analysis of pollen for studying past landscapes and ecosystems.
  • Uses case studies from the Sahara and Amazon to reinforce the stance against pre-agricultural civilization hypotheses.

Robert Schoch, the Sphinx, and Erosion Debates

Schoch’s Water Erosion Hypothesis

  • Robert Schoch's hypothesis that the Sphinx shows evidence of water erosion dating back to 10,000 B.C.E.
  • Discussion on the credibility and counter-arguments regarding erosion patterns and their dating.

Geographical Alignments and Precession of the Equinoxes

  • Graham claims that ancient structures align astronomically with significant past ages (e.g., the Sphinx alignment with Leo during 10,500 BC).
  • Uproar over astronomical sophistication and its implications for core archaeological timelines.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Tension and Critiques

  • Flint criticizes Graham's TV series' tone as offensive to archaeologists and proposes a more respectful dialogue moving forward.
  • Graham asks for a less combative and more inclusive approach from mainstream archaeology towards alternative hypotheses.
  • Notes on the importance of balanced, respectful exchanges aiming for deeper understanding.

Emphasis on Preservation and Academic Funding

  • Flint stresses the need for funding in archaeology and humanities, pointing towards the threats of defunding on academic and heritage conservation.
  • Shouts out to various educational YouTube channels and podcasts to spread archaeological knowledge and public education.

Final Pleas and Reflections

  • Both parties call for more respectful interaction and understanding, recognizing the need for preserving and learning from history.
  • Acknowledgement of the emotional and intellectual investment each brings to the discussion.

Ending: Highlighting the importance of collaborative efforts in historical scholarship and the value in merging different approaches to finally understand the rich past of human civilization.