so what i like thinking about is like what are the least sexy businesses those are always the best businesses now like a consumer facing like for us because we're consumer facing we've got this like purplish brand it feels sexy it's not at all sexy when you're operating it that's why i think it's a great business right if any like i usually think that if a business is sexy there's something wrong with it what do you think is one of the biggest reasons or or the emotion which let you choose entrepreneurship as career is it ambition is it is it glamour is it impact is it like what was it i had no idea what entrepreneurship was like i didn't know what like a company was it's not a very cool like that yeah exactly and then that's it that's that's we just want to build something exciting we were just pissed off that like that like groceries were very difficult to get when we were just like in the band and like two bachelors living in mumbai and we were like let's build something cool that you both were in mumbai okay now let's get to get to this zebra story okay but before we get down to there like i want to ask you this uh though how did you guys identify like there's something which you can build and people are trying to pay value for or people will value like you said something in the beginning right so you can pretty good with that like you can you can figure out if this is a problem if you're facing yourself right i think for the two of us we were in mumbai living in like this like these two bachelors first flavor the pandemic right and i mean not it's been and it's not like two bachelors from mumbai are like the most prepared people on the planet but we were like specifically not prepared and at the same time like the local store ecosystem was also under i mean understandably a lot of stress right because of the whole you know the whole situation and that's when we said and you know we were also spoiled by like products in the us like instacart et cetera and we said you know we need to figure something out here i mean it was not even like we need to now build a product and be entrepreneurs and build a big business that was not the mentality that was just like okay that was just like oh this sucks let's do let's figure something about it yeah let's just figure out something yeah we were just like we had nothing to do we would literally i remember we would just like watch really stupid tv shows inside and we were like oh man we were like this is so boring this and like this grocery thing is painful let's just do something about it see what happens and that was it there was no like this is the moment we become entrepreneur moment like that that did not happen at all didn't anyone else ask you like who the needs to gross in 10 minutes a lot of people on twitter are asking you know but we weren't delivering in 10 minutes of the time so when you so like when did you come up with this idea like we want to deliver groceries in 10 minutes so and why did you come up with this idea so you know the way we approached it was so you know when we were initially scaling this like model that we had delivering from uh you know delivering in like 45 minutes an hour they were just like near the you know there were just a certain set of customers that because they were close to where we were delivering from would just get deliveries faster or just short because i mean they just lived closer to where we were delivering from and when we so when we were scaling it it was not super exciting there were like some problems with the app 45 to 60 minutes was not super compelling for customers and when we saw the retention rates in the nps at the time we were not super it was just it was not like mind-blowing levels of exciting right so we were like okay uh kind of something kind of growing what do we do with it not really sure uh and so we started looking at data and we said okay how do we find product market fit and yc really helps like drills down that mentality of of product market fit seeking you know exercises and so we looked at all the data and we we try to cut it in multiple different ways we looked at retention and we said okay tension looks like this on an aggregate basis if i cut it based on like what people are ordering i get this if i you know cut it based on the price points people are doing it i get this and then it's okay that's not working and then eventually we took stuff we you know we took a step back and then we started segmenting based on delivery time so what's the average delivery time and we saw something pretty interesting which is the folks that were structurally getting deliveries faster just because of no other reason other than the yeah other than the simple like serendipity of living close to where we delivered from uh they would get the reason like 15 minutes 30 minutes nothing special we were doing but they just ended up getting it getting it done and their retention rates were much better their nps was much better their frequency of usage was much better their friends a lot more frequently exactly yeah yeah yeah every metric that we were measuring was just significantly better yeah interesting and so we took us there's something interesting and then we tried scaling it and then we tried you know building the infrastructure to make it a lot better and and it ended up doing super well so yeah i think that's how we ended up getting here to this model yeah 10-minute thing because you found out the data like people are ordering and getting the deliveries faster more chances of yeah what do you think is a major reason okay that why are you valued at what where your value i think half a billion dollars is what your value current value is 600 million so so i mean this this seriously i mean just yeah i mean it's just scale right i think yeah what we're doing i think it's yeah well one of the this is not to to our own horns but to maybe talk to the entire teams on were you know one of the fastest growing companies in indian history right now in fact the fastest yeah currently the fastest growing e-commerce company indian history and frankly the the revenue multiple that we're operating on is very low for the valuation that we have so we're actually pretty we're we're pretty every week any founder would say that but we feel very undervalued i mean frankly we just closed this down but the other thing is it's very difficult for valuation investors to keep up when the when the business is like doubling every month yeah it's it's not possible so you know one of the fastest growing companies out there just look at pure revenue multiples are doing super well and i think you know we're in a position where and you know which is especially important in markets like these you know we're in a position where we've actually drilled down to pretty significant depth what are you like you know what this model looks like profitable we've got some our most mature micro markets on every operating metric we've got we've got it profitable so if you're looking from an investor perspective you're like holy cow this is an insanely fast growing business the revenue multiple that they're operating on is very low like even as low as like like for a business that's growing you know two three thousand percent a year is like operating at public market multiples except public market companies grow like 50 a year right less right uh so you've got like crazy multiple like very conservative growing insanely fast and very clear picture on what you know profitability looks like and see frankly the way i look at it is that you know you've got pros and cons with every model right any model that you do especially in the online to offline world you have let's say food delivery or ride sharing and i'm just no specific context i'm just talking about globally right they're relatively much easier to scale because if i want to scale a ride sharing platform i get rider and i get guys with cars part time obviously depends on the country but i basically get tons of guys set them out there and i can start scaling it right food delivery something similar restaurants riders and i can start scaling it it's easier to scale a little bit lighter to scale so less capital intensive to scale but the con is that the the unit economics are actually pretty tight and like the end state ebitda of the business is not i mean it's still great and you could and it's it's it's definitely not an unprofitable business it will it is like if you look at some like european markets it's already profitable and even yeah even even even in india right like the food delivery players are operating on pretty good like end state uh unit economics right now the but it is very tight compared to recovery so easy to scale still tight on economics very doable people are doing it uh the way we look at this model is that actually at least the way we operated is that the unique economics are much clearer it's a lot easier right so we've done it very quickly like five six months proven out full-blown economic structure multiple micro markets uh but it is obviously there's a like a lot more infrastructure it's a lot more complexity to scale hence capital so i look at the pro this being unit economics are clear con being capital intensive flip side let's say if i was building a ride-sharing business tied on unit economics but less capital to scale so yeah but yeah to answer your question why is coming value to 600 million like fast growing revenue plus clear profitability equals like an undervalued part to profitability and traction is what so what's next for you guys where are you guys headed what are you going to think you're both 19 like what's the big game i'm just going to build this business for the next how many many many years how big do you have a number how big i mean it's how well we execute right that's that's that that's it i'm saying just but there must be some game like okay i want to take it to unicorn deca con i don't know a trillion dollars there's a number there's no numbers the big game is to build something that people want so yeah people already want that yeah but like and get it to a lot of people yeah i mean if you actually want me to tell you the real objective and this is the right answer i'm trying to maximize shareholder value that's the right answer that is the end state objective technically like that i'm supposed to say and i i don't think i'll get in trouble for saying something like that but uh but yeah i think like the objective is we're going to build a company that we're proud of that whenever we look back and we've got a lot of time on our hands in life so whenever we look back whatever 10 20 30 years from now that we're just like proud of the fact that we built a really solid organization like if like arcade money when he looks back at dmart you know he probably feels pretty good about that because he'd build a really solid organization yeah and so the object ncaa objective was to build a very large enduring generational business that's that's the only objective and like on a per that's the personal objective and then the professional objective is to maximize shareholders now what's the next big step which you're taking to make that possible like like give me like an exact step like okay are you getting into white labeling are you getting into some kind of different products like what do you think can be your next blue star so you don't know if you're allowed to say it yeah i think i think it's more like we're not allowed to say but i think i'll give you like a a true or very boring answer right i think one of the things that like one of the reasons why i've been able to execute as well as we have is just because of like the relentless focus we have on what we're doing right so we don't get distracted uh and i think we just like we know the business that we're building and that's all we do and it's a bit it's a very big market it's very big opportunity so we don't want to lose sight of the ball right so we are focused on what we're doing the very simple answer right now is like building and scaling a machine we're going to expand into more geographies we're going to like keep improving the customer experience and in the multiple different ways that that means and freshness you know what kind of products that people want to buy uh you know how like how can we improve the consistency of our delivery experience so the longer answer is that we're very focused on what we need to do we're just going to keep doing that and keep growing that keep improving like keep constantly improving on that experience and yeah so it's currently just like that like mantra machine of just scale well that's what we're doing right now i heard like you guys are pretty entertaining from the beginning right yeah are they more so than me i mean i was yeah i was like from day let me just acknowledge and like feel really really small right now because you're 19 both of you 19 year old kids i would say building some incredibly cool so i think you guys are 19. let's just say that and then like he was telling me about that this is not your first thing you started with something else and before that also you were doing something like carpooling and yeah like at what age like 12 you realize that i want to be an entrepreneur i think um for kv night was just i think building came fairly naturally to us right yeah i ever really was just like i knew at some point i was going to do it the thought process okay we'll go to college work somewhere why did you go to college then uh because you like if you guys knew that that you guys are going to do something like this why is there a reason you guys i think so i think the thought process i think we did we just we definitely discussed this the thought process we had at the time was like the we were getting reasonably good at a certain point at like identifying products that people were deriving consistent value out of okay but the piece that we didn't know as much about was how do you build like the enduring organization around that product how do you build a an airbnb or uh an amazon or an uber or dropbox and we figured probably the best place in the world you know slightly debatable nowadays but the best place in the world to go and learn that would be silicon valley in california so that was what i mean i guess to an extent like college was an excuse to be in that that ecosystem but i think i don't think we actually ended up learning a lot about company i mean or done quite a bit but we didn't learn the bulk of company building yeah i think it was awesome i think like i told you i think when i was in school i read that snapchat book and and and like about how evan spiegel built snapchat while he was at stanford and so that's why i decided to apply early start it was pretty much that i think i knew yeah knew that eventually was going to do something like that what do you think is the next big opportunity in india like the bunch of folks which are walking again circling back to the initial point like these days entrepreneurs are by choice so they want to become an entrepreneur i don't know maybe it's glamorous maybe they want to love it maybe they're not finding the joy in what they're doing i can't imagine how like i don't know i feel low glamour yeah or like like i don't know i know there's no glamorous i understand this i know like where you guys coming from dude i know that it is just like the the most intense not even like a grind like hostile like sort of like it's just the most like i tell you the best quote i've ever read on instagram i don't know who the said it the best quote on instagram about entrepreneurship i left nine to five and now i work 24 7. yeah right and that's entrepreneurship 101 like you work 24 7. it's not glamorous at all but people who want to watch like people who are watching this they want to get into it they want to get their hands dirty what do you feel like where is the biggest opportunity we see you you hang out with a bunch of cool people investors yc yeah you have your friends if not zep let's say you guys are not doing that yeah well we had oh three you'll definitely do something but what's the most interesting opportunity in india today i mean tons honestly i think there's a you know next billion dollar opportunity so what i like thinking about is like what are the least sexy businesses those are always the best businesses now like a consumer facing like for us because we're consumer facing we've got this like purplish brand it feels sexy it's not at all sexy when you're operating it that's why i think it's a great business right if any like i usually think that if a business is sexy there's something wrong with it and like that's that's my philosophy so like when i when i look at the opportunities in india are a lot of there are a lot of like really boring like for example there's this company and the they're doing really well i won't say the name exactly but they work with like cattle trading uh in like really rural india software company like software that like helps facilitate cattle trading and they're huge like they're growing insanely fast they have like like one crore downloads a lot of them are the ones you talked about a lot of the value comes from bringing unorganized stuff to organizations so everything's like construction right construction is not a sexy market there's companies that are doing it like infra market is doing phenomenally well because it's just like organizing why would anyone want to work in that market on the face of it doesn't sound exciting construction construction like the construction startup in construction like to help facilitate like again i'm not super familiar with the model right uh or like for example another like boring business this is why why come in a business called ironclad which is essentially like in india but it's like it's a software business in i think it's in seattle yeah right they just do like contract software like software to help lawyers pass through contracts better and it's massive it's massive like the business is huge so the way i look at it is that ideas like that like uh software that facilitates category not something that's on the surface not something that's immediately like visible those are the opportunities that i'm always usually excited it and on sexy opportunity is almost inherently ammo right because nobody gives it so like it's not sexy so you won't have like a 100 people running trying to copy it yeah and like i like on that point to build off of that right like what we're building on on the surface seems very sexy yeah when we go into the details now that we know how insanely painful it is our bet is that not many people are going through that pain like i like willing to go i'm not willing to but like but then not making it will not go through that pain yeah like it's just not resolved so yeah i think but if i do it if i to get specific i think right now i can't think of a specific industry yeah there's a lot i think i mean if what if what i would be doing if i wasn't doing like online to offline q commerce probably at tech i would definitely not be doing a crypto company i do unders i mean you do understand both of us understand it it's just like i'm just very i just don't say anything about crypto because i know that it's probably i mean it'll definitely be big but like i'm not invested in it or like you know i was taking it but you know how you must if like people in the 1980s and 90s i thought the internet was going to be a fad they must feel really stupid right now right so i just don't say anything about it right so like my worst case scenario is i was just a passive deserver uh so i don't think i'll do a crypto company it doesn't excite me for whatever reason uh i think edtech would probably be interesting tech is great um yeah edtech in india is huge and you would always end up doing something atoms right something yeah i i really like i really and it's it's pretty sadistic i really like adam's business yeah this is disgusting always have about atoms business which is in the real world or like bits of like online businesses so i think yeah that's a big fan of online offline stuff so horrible low margins or very limited margins than that yeah that is pretty interesting thanks man thanks a lot this is nice to hear about both of you guys you guys are all like crazily optimized and clear about what you got to do what are your strengths what you exactly are trying to build i love the part where i was trying to get like a lot of answers from a lot of different places but like throughout every answer into throughout the conversation one thing stood out it's like we're pretty focused at what we do and that stood out in pretty much every answer in fact i saw that like if there's some kind of answer which you gotta take both of you know that he's gonna answer like there's no clash dude that that's very rare because usually they're both the founders speak where the founders know what to speak what not to speak but this is pretty good so thanks so much appreciate it wow awesome me man thank you thanks [Music] you