[Music] Sam Smith hello good thank you so much for being here today and I was wondering what made you want to start speaking out about body image which is one of the things and we're talking about today yeah this is my first time ever speaking about it and recently I was on tour and it's my whole life I struggled with with my body and my relationship with it and truly your whole life since I can remember since a baby yeah and it's I was on tour working out everyday being really super healthy um last year and I came off of tour and over Christmas just started eating a lot and getting into bad habits and when I was on holiday recently a few months ago I was like for the first time ever I just had to kind of a surge in me to fight against my issues instead of being a victim to them all the time and so I started following I weighed started reading up on stuff like looking at stuff and actively searching for help I guess and a way to talk about it and hear other people talking about it and so what was that moment do you remember what you just woke up one day and were like no oh we live like this it was it was another another situation of holiday every holiday I've ever been on where everyone's by the pool and I have to take my t-shirt off and get in the pool and it's pain it's a painful experience for me every since I was a kid I've not won a swimsuit since iwas yeah 13 in public so I know you mean it's horrific I mean I used to like get my mom to write in notes to the school when I was like eight so I wouldn't have to go to swimming lessons because I have to hold my chest like this so it's something that's been me forever and this holiday side you know what I'm gonna I need to fight this because I can't live my life like this anymore mm-hmm exhausting that's amazing that you also addressed it in yourself because I think that there is a lot of shame and a massive lack of information around men's body positivity and so was it easy for you to find men we were talking about this was it mostly women that you found talking about this I haven't really found many men talking about it especially no bar no men I haven't I think if I hunt hard enough there's obviously people I saw a guy recently that you posted on a way beautiful guy looking incredible and and I found that very inspiring but I don't hear a lot of guys talking or even doing this chat right now it's it feels a bit weird yeah making you guys don't speak about this that much on a big scale in terms of someone who's well known and why is that why do we think those is it because vanity is something that is seen to be only really a female allowed thing because you know the way that like men aren't really supposed to groom themselves men aren't supposed to get manicures or take care I'm not supposed to cry I'll be emotional you know it's I guess it's that the toxic masculinity conversation isn't it that's the weighing over guys all the time it weighs over me it doesn't feel manly does it to talk about how how I feel in my body every day and so taking it back so you're saying that you were as young as 8 when you felt too self-conscious to swim how young do you think it was that you really were aware of your body being different to other people's bodies I think when I was a kid I was chubby but when I when I when I take care of me like five six years old and then it would get worse and worse and worse and I was holding a lot of weight in my chest and then when I hit 11 years old I went to the doctor's because my mum very very she's clever about it I I was so self-conscious that it was affecting my mood everyday and my life as a teenager and she went to the doctors and basically said they they examined my body examine my chest and I was holding a lot of estrogen in my chest I hadn't uestion than many boys did in my chest which I said by the way so much more common than people realize yes it's something so many boys are going through and don't talk about yeah my breasts yeah and I am I I had liposuction I was 12 years old had liposuction day operation and that's a big thing at the time I think I was very happy about it and it didn't really change anything I think I put the weight back on in my two weeks because I hadn't figured out my relationship with food so I it didn't really change anything but being 12 years old and having liposuction on your chest is quite it's quite a big deal and then it was just the basis of all of my teasing all of my building my thoughts like how soon how young were you and bullying started cuz I was like maybe 11 when the bullying became really out of control yeah I'd seen horrible situations in school with guys where I mean a guy grabbed my chest once in the playground in front of all his friends it was horrible that's so traumatic yeah and I've started therapy a year ago which is why I think I'm doing this yes I'm starting to dig in deeper and realize that's partly why that's that and so did this bullying kind of go on throughout school yep 16 I kind of I was in a good place actually between 16 and 18 is that psychologically or just physically you as logic I was still dealing with a lot of stuff about being gay and I hadn't met any gay person since I was 18 years old cuz I lived in the countryside of nobody and you were the only person in that it's so brilliant that you have the kind of parents that would have a feel like you know yourself but also that you can let them know you so lucky and yet being gay so that became a problem for you about around 16 I came it became more of a I started to when I hit 18 years old as I [ __ ] I'm I I'm behind I haven't had my first kiss I haven't met any one of the things like I do i I I don't I'm not a gay man I'm just a guy that is attracted to men I'm not I don't know anything about the community I don't know anything so it was very lonely feeling and around 16 am i right in saying that you stopped wearing any boys clothes yes 16 to 16 I and I stopped wearing boys clothes yeah and I would wear leggings for full makeup every day just to school to school you were very influenced by Lady gaga very by her and her support she had a support band called semi-precious weapons great and the lead singer was in heels and he was it was he was beautiful so I kind of like any kind of negativity or strange behavior from other people around you considering that you were the only gay person in the village well because it was such a small village and my town there I went to school and was so small it was I was a big fish in a small pond and I turned into the gay clown people would people would shout stuff on the street at me I have horrible stuff but it was I I owned it where did that come from I have no idea it was it's weird it's weird how I was that confident and then and then it all just went south after that it was it was strange because I moved to London and then when I moved to London dressing up now that became very heavy because I had to it was like putting on an armor every day to go out because in London it's quite its aggressive its aggressive so I slowly start to stop I put jeans on and then I put you know changed changed my outfit and then stopped wearing makeup slowly and then became just just in time for when latch was released with disclosure pretty much everything was I remember that yes because that became the armor yeah well actually the suit thing happened about a year and a half and that's because I was gaining so much weight rapidly and I was so busy the only thing that I could and was there a psychological reason for why you felt like your weight was suddenly changing again after you'd lost all that way you were suddenly gaining more weight was there an emotional eating were you stressed or I'm just happening I made money and I spent all my money on food when I got sad I would the to cheer me up I'd go for a massive meal somewhere and it got worse and worse and then it was like binge eating in hotel rooms and then I was getting so the eating was getting so intense and then body dysmorphia started to I've always had it since I was a kid can you explain what body does more furious for people who don't understand I don't really necessarily know enough about it but all I know is that I rely on other people to tell me what size I am because I genuinely don't know I have the exact same thing I literally can't I cannot see my body home in a mirror i weirdly I can see it in photographs but until I've seen a photograph of what I look like I have no I have no idea of what I'm seeing in the mirror I don't have it with my body I have it with my face like I can't see my features I'm so sort of it's so altered for me yeah and so are you able to at least identify yourself and like by it you have to just see what fits I guess so yeah upsets me because I it happens to me all the time even two days ago I was looking back at someone showed me a picture from literally four months ago and I remembered that day and I remember looking in the mirror that day like grabbing my way and like looking in the mirror like [ __ ] you need to lose weight but in that picture I am the skinniest that the Tony the time most kind I've ever been I do kind of makes me upset I do want to talk about that not because I don't want to it's not your weight that I want to focus on but more kind of your relationship with your body there was a you you have lost a substantial amount of weight very quickly in the last couple of years and that it feels like that happened around a similar time that you went through a public fat shaming incident yes okay talking about it yeah okay that's what's that's what happened I I got really big and I was being unhealthy and I was in Australia and got a picture of me it's quite a funny picture but I'm like diving off of this rock and my belly's out and I was midair in my fat shaming you know what's amazing is I'm running for a food truck which nobody knows but I was running and so I look panicked in the photograph because I was running okay so you're diving off so you were with that photograph got circulated around the world everywhere yeah yeah and I remember even at the time I remember not thinking that I looked that bad because when a my biggest I didn't think that I was that big and that I then it's something triggered it triggered something in me you have so many number ones like you have so many awards that you have one you're so successful and so for that to even be something that people focus on is so wild it was it was wild I died at the time I wasn't actually paying attention to that I was but it was it was obviously subconsciously hurting because of what happened after that yeah and so yeah you dropped a substantial amount of weight I kept the way up for a bit stopped and then have my vocal operation stop touring everything kind of slowed down then I had my year off and and then I gained a lot of weight back people didn't see it because I wasn't I wasn't packed and I wasn't I didn't I came off social media for a year but I put on a lot of the way again and when the relationship was started smoking cigarettes just not looking after my body being abusive to my body and then just before my second home came out literally month month and a half before I was like when I come back with the second album I want to look [ __ ] skinny cuz skinny is success yes yeah and I have to uphold this now because I was like I've lost all this way I've gotta own it I can't I you know my I was even being crazy not my first albums about being lonely I can't I need to look I can't look lonely if and if I look fat I look lonely and isn't that interesting where do you think that narrative comes from I don't know I have a theory I think that and I noticed this from the year in which I got nationally publicly fat shamed for months and heard photographers camping outside my house calling me a fat c-word to my face yeah it was pretty bad but I was having a great year like I'd made history I had a great job I had loads of clothing lines out I was making the most money I'd ever made and I was only 26 years old self-made I was in a really great relationship all my friends are amazing but every single photograph you will see of me in all of those all of those pictures are only when I look sad because I'm down or I'm tired or I'm picking something up though they only chose to create the narrative around me that I was depressed and fat and eating all the time and always alone they were they were photographing me all of the time there are multiple opportunities to find me looking happy and yet when I'm when I'm slim they stop and they ask me for the photograph they don't take it from a bush they wait for me to like put down my bag and smile and pose and that way they get to create the narrative of like oh look thin and happy whereas most the time that I've been very very thin in the public is when I've been like suffering from a terrible eating disorder and the same with a lot of the people in this industry like we are trying to fit into these sample sizes that are just inhumanly small and so therefore most people are quite miserable and thin yeah but will look happy and smiling because that's the story that gets told to us and by the media so I was just wondering what's out there e I think that's it was so mad I was having such a great year but the narrative around it like I wanted to just end my life no I come and and yeah I'm so happy you've just told me that because it's it's very true and it puts the piece of the puzzle together in my head and also especially because I didn't have a personal life I became what what they were making me out to be okay what you just said the word inhuman there and I didn't that's actually been a big part of me being happy recently is that is giving in to the fact that I am a human being being so great and sharing that yeah I feel like I for a long time I I thought it wasn't a human being I was like I think maybe I thought I was more special than that you know become famous and and you and maybe you live forever or something Joe mean it's ridiculous you do with all-wheel [ __ ] and piss and cry and yeah and binge and and summer Tommy getting myself is something great about the humanity of like famous people so I had to go and like speak at some big award ceremony and they said that just remember when you're looking out into the crowd and you're looking at like Merrill then Angelina and all these different people he said every single person in the world has at one point been stuck on a toilet doing a [ __ ] and they've realized that they don't have toilet paper and they've had to do the shitty rows that you have to do you know where you crouched around you've still got your pants around your ankles around the house now you're just like famous crap isn't it sometimes if n brings you like great privilege and you get to meet some cool people sometimes and fame is the only reason I got a chance to meet you yeah because we were moving within a similar circle but young people are so obsessed with the idea of Fame and they think is this really amazing thing because of the highlight reel that you see on social media from celebrities and because we're kind of almost shamed out of ever complaining about the experience because you do have money and we do get to wear nice stuff and get to have some nice experiences but I think that that's a really dangerous thing because young people now want to be famous almost just for the sake of being famous yeah under any cost and no one talks about what it's really like I found him very claustrophobic what was your name I try and I try and talk about it in the primer for my second record I tried to talk about it but but was that met with much empathy no because I sound so depressing when I talk about it because I have very very passionate views on it I if I got if I had the chance to do this it would again I would not do this I wouldn't really when I talk about it I feel so depressing because I think people I've even Joe I remember George Michael talking about I don't remember I was in love but he talked about fame he stepped away from Fame he took years out had the fight with the label and Frank Sinatra wrote a letter to him babies being like cheer up behind sure enjoy your fame and I read that and it made it made my heart break because I I can't cheer up about it it's something that I obviously I'm I'm very lucky I I have money now and which which I don't necessarily think is lucky sometimes because the responsibilities and everyone changes but my my views on fame is why I would not do it again is because I died like part of my life died and no one treats me the same ever I mean my mum my mum my dad my sisters do but they they also can't because I'm not the same my diff that the things that I go through every day are very different you know talking about the gay thing I'm 26 years old right and I told you it until 18 years old I hadn't got with the guy hadn't met a gay man I became famous at 20 so I had two years to have sex with men and which moving into London 18 having sex and men is not a very um kind experience it was very very aggressive and what I went through in that time was traumatic and then I became famous and then I'm travelling around the world trying to find love trying to I never knows who I am and now I'm 26 and when it comes to money and success I feel like a 40 year old when it comes to my romantic life and my personal issue of my body and my head I feel like a confused 16 year old boy so it's it's hard so I'm glad that you're back when it comes to you feel like you've kind of I'm sure probably slightly recently but you've been very willing and kind with being able to come here and talk to me today about all of these issues so what do you think has brought you back to wanting to talk about this is at that moment that you've had that epiphany we've decided to look for self help and you do you want to help out the people I do want to help other people I wonder I want but I think you can only do that by helping yourself first I think and I just I really I really want to just speak out about weight and body image issues within men that's all I know and it's it's and you say that it's been something that's actually been a problematic thing than coming out as gay for you is that this has been its the basis of all my sadness I mean literally everything I've ever been sad about is my way and it's I struggle with it every day about two days ago I had a full day where I was I just have to sit alone I thinks I'm getting so sad I get I get very very dark very sad and and recently I've been able to get out of those holes a bit quicker because of things I weigh and because of reading and listening and hearing stories and you know changing my Instagram so that what I can change what I'm looking at you know I was gonna ask you like what impact has social media had on you on your brain when it comes to image I think that made it it was awful at first absolutely awful and I've had to just change everything you know yeah it's Jo also is that the conversation I think which definitely spin bullets for me is and I've never spoken like this and it's something that I'm not even sure on myself but I recently was looking in reading stories about people who come as genderqueer non-binary and I've always had a bit of a war within my body in my mind about how you define yourself yes cuz I do think like a woman sometimes in my head and I've sometimes sat then and question do I want to say exchange and it's something that I still think about I do I want to but I don't think it is when I saw the the word non-binary gender queer and I read into it I heard these people speaking I was like that is me would you explain what that means to you I'm Terry non-binary gender queer is that you do not identify an agenda you are just you you are a mixture of all different things your own special creation that's how that's how I take it it's not I'm not male or female I think I I float somewhere in between and on a spectrum I think the same in sexuality you know like I've been with too many straight men to know to know that not everyone's who says they're straight are 30 straight you can sometimes like doing a bit of this here in a Bolivia that men have fallen of the people not genitals yeah I am that's I've always been very free in terms of thinking about sexuality and so I just tried to change that into my thoughts on gender as well and that has that's been bald my rash at my body because I had breasts when I was 11 years old I have a very feminine body when I moved when I have sex with men it's very feminine you're one dancer in many many ways and I've always resented that I've almost been like no that's not manly that's not this you've got to work out you've got to lose weight because that's what men do you know the Fight Club body yeah yeah yeah honestly that's I was getting obsessive him and sending pictures to my trainer of Tom Hardy and I've got to look like this gotta like that but I will never look like that because there's a bit of a woman in me that won't allow my body to move without I put on weight in places that women put on weight and that is that that I think that's pinboard everything actually because that's me looking at myself like [ __ ] maybe I'm not a man maybe I'm not a woman maybe I'm just me and yeah maybe that's okay and maybe my body just them in the same way that my mind does whatever it wants to do in my sexuality does whatever it wants to do my body is doing whatever it wants to do and so therefore I should love me in my entirety every set and how also how dare I not like my body that's crazy like I'd recently I was like my mom gave birth to me like she loves she loved my body nothing after my friend's baby recently and everyone's like kissing this baby all over washing him like he's got its penis out and everyone doesn't care and it's just like you love this baby and then suddenly you are looking at the body that your mum made I put all that time into and going you're ugly you're - oh that's horrible that's that's not okay what message would you like to give to the people that follow you and see you in your culture like what what if there was like a bit of advice that you would ever give to those young people who follow you I think other than don't be famous I think I think it's I think it's forgiveness I really do I think that's what I'd like to promote through what we're really forgiveness for just forgiving yourself in some sort of way you know it's okay to trip up it's okay to be flawed it's okay to not look the way no people think you have to and I think that's important but at the same time I don't I just I just want to be myself as much as possible and I don't wanna think about it too much you know I don't I just want to post what I post and just let it be a natural thing that I don't obsess over because you know I do want to be a spokesperson I do want to talk about this [ __ ] but like I'm going through [ __ ] every day I'm really struggling my head with stuff I'm like I I can do interviews like this I can speak out when I when I feel comfortable and when I can but like I've got a lot of I've got a long way to go before I'm happy and people and gay people and boys and people who struggle with their body image or not on monolith and so therefore you don't want to become the spokesperson for I definitely feel that way myself I just want to promote the fact that self-love I don't like what the word is weird but self love isn't a I think people think it's like a destination like you're gonna reach a point when you like [ __ ] I love myself and I don't have to try anymore yeah it's a practice and that's what I'd like to promote the practice of life like you know if you if you do get sad and you get depressed if you have body issues you have to work with that every single day mm-hmm all day like you'd like you would exercise like anything you have to work on it you have to do stuff to help you in this help out there so what help have you had and what have you done in order to I mean that beautiful book that urine recently thank you mr. pink my sister was reading it and she said it to me and I loved reading that it was amazing I think yeah so books Instagram accounts movies so tell me some people that you follow on social media and some awesome people who write that you have found to be helpful for you in your journey um it's not too many because I'm still new new to this but obviously i way is from you on your on your followed you and then I saw the I way thing that's like whoa it blew my mind it really did why because you make it school don't mean it you're doing it in a way that feels it feels this isn't me just sort of like just trying to stop way isn't really just mine it's a full community of people and they make their own person so I kind of if it's work I would love to hear from someone what it has like it was you it just it just feels human in every possible way and it feels in fashion in trend as well at the same time which i think is an important thing not I don't follow things that are in fashion in trend but it's exciting to see something that I think people would get involved in from all types and I think some men look at a way and because there's a lot of women on the page which I think happens because women feel more safe to talk about body issue than men do and so we don't have a lot of men on our way and that's not something that I want I would like for everyone to feel like it's a safe space and would you recommend I way oh my god of course I would and I think that I think that Alstom that comes down to toxic masculinity for sure I think it comes down to the fact that you are it's it's it's weak of you to be sensitive or emotional about your body you know ya just deal with it man up yeah man up yeah that turn but I think yeah I think I where's the perfect place for the guys to do that and it's in a beautiful way yeah I need I try not doing on this ground all the time when I'm on there I've I've turned it into a safe space for your surface for me it's so important to unfollow toxic people at one point where you following people that used to make you feel bad about the way that you looked yeah I was following was hot guys and fitness account people doing amazing squats and everyone just looking unbelievable yeah all the time and I would be so depressed with my phone every time and so now going forward now that you are not only embracing yourself internally but also externally and doing things like this amazing interview and I'm so grateful that you have done and speaking about this opening which I think will help so many people because so many men feel like they can't talk about this I get hundreds of messages a day and now more and more tweets recently because of the growth of our way and my campaigning and because I think my feminism feels like it's open to men more and more men talking about the fact that they are struggling with this gay straight non-binary people telling me that they are struggling with this people really need this more than ever so so do you do you think that you will continue to work on your own personal growth and maybe share tips along the way I think I will I think I am going to start to live very loudly I think whereas before I was afraid of who I would offend or if I would have upset myself or I would make mistakes I'm my my mindset members just [ __ ] it [ __ ] everyone [ __ ] everything I am gonna be myself to that to that to the end and I'm gonna make mistakes in front of everyone because I'm famous and I hiding is too exhausting it's you know what we're canceling cancel culture cancel culture is now cancelled and all of the leaving parties are also cancelled yeah you're out of here we don't need you to the end thank you so much for doing this interview I can't tell you how much I appreciate it and how cool it is to have a man come here and talk about these issues because most men would be too afraid to be that vulnerable you are very special and you are very important and I think this will help a lot of people thank you [Music] [Music]