micro strategy's mission is to is to develop Advocate support the adoption of Bitcoin everywhere in the world mhm so that's what we'll do we'll do that forever we will do that by buying Bitcoin every single quarter buy more Bitcoin we'll buy it with cash flows we'll buy it with debt we'll buy it with Equity we'll buy it with any other Capital markets activity that we can those opportunities will change from quarter to quarter from time to time I can't tell you how we'll be buying Bitcoin in 10 years but I can tell you that we will likely be buying Bitcoin welcome to a new episode Deep dive today with Michael saor Michael great having you happy to be here yeah we already had an interview and you find it up here or in the playlist of course it was tremendous actually the feedback was F phenomenal but um let's start with rapid fire questions Michael and we keep it short so um what price of Bitcoin do you expect in 10 years I think uh in 10 years we'll reasonably be in uh seven figures million dollar Bitcoin okay okay you you expect it al already in this cycle this bold cycle or just in 10 years you that a different question I gave you the answer okay good one 10 years okay okay million dollars yeah for better that's a question I think you um get frequently I guess is there a question you get really bored of like okay they ask me again oh why which one is it be honest I can't give you one something about Bitcoin okay so um do you have any idea and it's all questions from from my community um do you have any idea who is satosi Nakamoto you have any clue or do you have somebody nobody knows who Satoshi Nakamoto is you think CU I wrote a whole chapter in my new book about it um do you think it's perhaps not human or he's not human I don't speculate okay that's fair we saw a big shift in the last couple of weeks in the politics in the US Trump is pro Bitcoin Pro miners and we see the regulation we see um a lot of things happening in the in the US government you think the US will actively work on replacing perhaps the dollar with Bitcoin or or build a Bitcoin backed dollar no why not it's not necessary Bitcoin is digital Capital the dollar is the dollar it's like uh Bitcoin America is going to embrace digital Capital just like every country is going to embrace digital Capital just like they're going to embrace Google and Apple Amazon and the internet and the like they'll embrace it but uh I don't think it uh changes how they handle the dollar I think that uh central banks maybe in time the smaller central banks will Embrace uh Bitcoin as a treasury Reserve asset but but long before them I think corporations will institutional investors will Sovereign wealth funds will and and uh you know 10 years is is not that long a time in the history of things I mean if if Bitcoin goes to a million dollars so it'll be somewhat more valuable than gold but gold is still an insignificant asset it's gold is still an insignificant asset in every wealthy person's portfolio on Earth so true so Bitcoin can go to a million dollars a coin and be extremely successful and it'll be starting to to um be embrac as digital Capital but we'll still be early you think we're still early yeah okay do you think ethereum will be around next 10 years I don't know I don't speculate you don't speculate perfect you think there will be it's perhaps also speculation but you think there will be a great conflict between the the us or the Western world and the Eastern world I don't know I don't speculate it's not my field yeah I know I know I see that I don't I wouldn't even know how to define the term Western World and Eastern world I think we could probably spend hours debating the topic yeah but there is a paradigm shift going on definitely de globalization we see the transformation from the unipolar world to a multipolar world we see PX Americana is ending and even the hion us is faltering you you think this is necessary for a new monetary system because if you look back in the in history it always needed a crisis to establish a new sound monetary system I think Bitcoin is technology and it's digital capital and I think there's a transformation of capital from analog to digital and I think that that uh every every company every government every investor every technologist will look at that and people will embrace it at whatever rate they want to embrace it like let's take the internet for example did the internet change politics in the last 30 years I mean if you look at the development of the European Union what was the role of the internet or if you look at the development in China and Russia and the crisis and what was the role of the internet if you look at everything that happened in South America in the last 30 years what was the role of the internet I mean the internet spread everywhere it's gone everywhere on Earth it's changed everything but you still have economic conflict political conflict military conflict you have evolution in society and and uh the internet just keeps spreading so I think bitcoin's going to spread like digital capital I don't think you need any cataclysmic event for it to spread I think it's just a better idea like uh it would spread regardless of whether there is a conflict and you know con conflict chaos hyperinflation will accelerate the spread but you know if Apple computer builds the Bitcoin into the iPhone it's going to spread because Apple built Bitcoin into the iPhone and why will they build it in the iPhone because they'll make hundreds of billions of dollars if they build it in the iPhone why wouldn't they want to make billions of billions of dollars so people will do it because they can do it and uh countries will adopt it at whatever rate and investors will adopt at whatever rate they will it's just a better idea it's digital Capital just like digital information it's like I I I don't know the role of digital photographs in the development of the Chinese you know culture since Ma is there a role no I I don't I don't know but the point is digital photographs of permeated society right this is digital Capital it's going to permeate Society what I'd say is Bitcoin it doesn't solve all the problems in the world it just solves half it's the half where you need economic power or wealth to do anything right who wants power everybody wants power who doesn't want power right what are you going to do with the power well everybody has a difference of opinion what they're going to do with it but I think everybody can agree they would like more economic power not less economic power and uh the world seems very simple to me it's like there's $900 trillion doll of wealth measured in dollars the dollar will continue to expand 7 to 10% a year that means in s to 10 years there'll be twice as much of that if if Bitcoin you know goes by a a factor of 10 or a factor of 15 so it'll go from 1.3 trillion to 20 trillion it could be 1% of the wealth of the world and be a million dollars of coin and the world will be whatever is doing right so I'm I'm not really I don't I'm not of the opinion that there needs to be some catastrophe or there'll be some major you know world event change I think that this is just good technology it's going to spread just like mobile phones spread beside your asset allocation what else changed in your life since you dived into the rabbit hole since you discovered Bitcoin um I spent a lot more time studying Bitcoin M you never get bored I spent a lot more time studying history I spent a lot more time studying economic history I've been introduced to Murray rothbard spent a lot of time studying you know studying the economic history of the American colonies before the Revolution is something I never would have thought I would have been interested in so my interest in in economics and history and politics I mean I spent a lot of time parsing bills parsing litigation listening to Congressional testimony you know so I'm a lot more interested in Arcane Financial regulation and politics than I was before all of those things have changed and I do a lot I have a lot more communication activity right I you know I didn't used to go on on financial television on Bloomberg or CNBC or Fox I do a lot more of that I do a lot more I didn't do podcasts no I do yeah true you know I didn't tweet now I do yeah right so I think I do a lot more communication a lot more research a lot more synthesis in this area yes yes and you know like you could say the 10 years previous I kind of did that and shared my thoughts with my friends and not with the world you know we sit around a table and there's eight people and someone says what do you think about the world and you talk and the eight people nod and then you go home that night and nothing much changes now I spend a lot more time talking about not the entire world because I think I think Bitcoin teaches you to have the humility and know that you're not going to solve the problems or the Thousand problems of the world I think I think I've I've realized I should focus on one thing right what is digital money what is digital Capital what is bitcoin how how can it be helpful to the world focus upon that stay a breast of that communicate that in a constructive fashion yeah right so that so my life has change in that regard I have a mission yeah yeah I I feel that I feel that um is it a burden as well that you're like the very vocal about Bitcoin and passionate about Bitcoin no I think it's enjoyable it's a present I think it's I think things are a burden if you feel like you've got a mission but you're not making any progress and you're failing mhm but you're winning like when you're when you're failing in your mission right you're you know there are examples of people throughout history that had a mission and devoted their life to something and and they just had a series of continuous setbacks and I I don't know I don't want to speak for them but if I was them maybe I might deem that to be a bit of a burden yeah but if if you've discovered a mission and you're pursuing it and you're making progress and you feel like you're winning then I think it's invigorating was there ever a point where you thought perhaps okay um we not winning or where you had doubts about Bitcoin or your investment strategy shees no not at all okay CU you it's been a good four years yeah I know yeah I I mean in the worst point the lowest point was probably when Bitcoin you know at the crypto winner hit 16,000 and I I wasn't uh lacking in optimism I felt just fine it was just people around exactly exactly you know when they were failing you know when their confidence was failing then it was uh it it required more heavy lifting right or more communication then it's pretty easy when everybody's succeeding right in the bull market in the bare Market you have to work a little bit harder but okay I don't I don't think there was never like we were buying Bitcoin aggressively when it was 16,000 yeah there's never a point when I wasn't sure but there was no call from the bank like a marching call or some managers said oh my God what we doing we're losing it um the closest thing to that was when silvergate Bank failed oh okay that's interesting yeah we had a $200 million loan a Bitcoin back loan with silvergate bank and then the bank failed okay you know but uh so that was a that was something to be managed and and it turned out to work out well for us because when the bank fails you actually get to buy the loan back at a discount so we actually benefited make money out of it like you you know right if you borrow money from the bank and the bank and you've got theone and they need the they need you to repay the loan then you've got the the advantage so that was probably the closest thing to you know the low Point yeah right but you never had a sleepless night or something no okay many people by life was a lot harder before Bitcoin yeah I know I know no it's a lot it's a lot more difficult when you're working as hard as you possibly can without hope yeah but but did did you know it before you discovered Bitcoin that there is no hope in the Fiat world did you feel it preps like a splinter in your mind well one could say that the what the perquisite for discovering Bitcoin is to determine there is no hope like that's that's what we had to get to before the company would switch to a Bitcoin standard that's that's what holds back other companies from switching because you you kind of have to get to the point where you say my family is hopeless my company is hopeless my country is hopeless my life is my strategy is hopeless before you then open your mind humble yourself and say should I adopt a new idea so I would say in 2020 by by the second quarter of 2020 we def we had determined that it was hopeless at that point to the other strategy was not going to work yeah yeah but but then on the other side perhaps human beings need a kataris need a crisis to go to be brave enough to go for A New Path yeah I would say the principle of paradigm shift is people only adopt a new paradigm in war or in death yeah so you either have to you know all the old guard has to die right uh teenagers and 20 some things they're at the beginning of their life right what do you want you want fame you want fortune you want respect you want a family you want a girlfriend right you love none of those things you have no assets true therefore you have nothing to lose everything to gain and someone present you with the idea of YouTube or a mobile phone or Bitcoin or a electric guitar right whatever it is and you embrace it right the new the new paradigm when you're 75 years old you've already had the family the respect you've already got the respect you yeah you've already got the money like you don't need to prove anything maybe you've already messed up your life maybe maybe you haven't but the point really is you have the most to lose the least amount of time the lowest amount of neurop plasticity the least gain you're the most resisted of new ideas yeah so so youth will adopt a new idea you seniors will reject the new idea uh the exception of that is in a war when you reject air power and then the enemy drops bombs on your city and blows up your headquarters and you look up then you realize that your thesis was incorrect M you know know if you have Cavalry and they have tanks you know then you realize the thesis was incorrect right so um so in war time when you have when you have massive trauma like people all think they're going to fight the next war with the weapons from the last war and when the next War comes along and there's 87,000 robot drones swarming wasp things to come through your window you'll realize that all the stuff you had from 1990 that you were going to fight with is useless yeah right so that'll be a paradigm shift and I think that uh Co covid was like the paradigm shift that but it doesn't catalyze everybody because a lot of people didn't lose everything in covid only some people lost everything in Co some people gained yeah right and uh so so that that's a catalyst chaos will continue to be a catalyst but there's a Tipping Point right with these things there's a point when something flips from being out of consensus right strange terrifying to being absolutely normal to them being essential and I think if you look in the history of Technology look at the photos of New York City in you know 1905 versus 1915 and somehow people went from horses on the streets and carriage to automobiles yeah you know and there was a state change and everybody was against it before they were for it yeah and there's a lot of things like that in the history of Technology you know whether it's electricity or whether it's automobiles or whether it's mobile phones where it's just you know people are against and then all of a sudden they just flip and it happens in a hurry when it happens and you think this is escalating actually this this parabolic um program with technology Ai and so on yeah I think that the world is changing at a more rapid rate I think the next 10 years are are a very rapid transformation along at least two Dimensions that I'm familiar with there may be more than two that I am not familiar with but the two I'm familiar with would be digital money and digital intelligence yeah and it's pretty clear that that um there's hundreds of trillions of dollar of capital which is analog money and as people start to transform the analog to the digital you're going to see profound disruptions in business models and uh and uh Financial applications and financial institutions and you know a lot of things people took for granted for last 30 years they'll just throw out the window and say what like you if I run a survey on Twitter right now and I ask how many of you are going to you know invest in Bitcoin versus equities versus gold versus something else I think like 3% of the people say Equity if you roll the clock back 20 years it's like what well like 3% right so there are certain things where people just don't think that way anymore um yeah it's a transition and I think with intelligence yeah you know the the AIS didn't work until they started working and I guess they started working last year and we're either in year maybe we're year two we're year one or year two I think we're year one of adoption of digital money and I think maybe we're year two of adoption of digital intelligence and I think they're going to spread like wallfire and if you had to trace catalytic events I would say the catalytic event for digital intelligence was the success of chat GPT for o yeah when it went from zero to 100 million users you know like in a month or something what yeah and that was after 40 Years of trying and 40 Years of garbage like like people use Siri or Alexa to pick their playlist you know pick out a song right that's the only app people can come up with and then all of a sudden this thing is composing you know perfect you know Shakespearean poetry or you know whatever it is and it's it's like not bad so I think that that that kind of caused people to wake up and that caused Microsoft to wake up and of course the capital markets react with Nvidia stock and Microsoft and the like and and uh you know the hyperscalers are going to build 60 gaws of data centers a year and they want 600 gaws like that's like all the electricity in the world like it's so powerful right that digital intelligence move is so powerful that it has flipped all of the big tech companies to buy up all the electricity in Europe and the us but it's also caused them to flip and become pro-nuclear power Microsoft yeah and so we're going to actually see a reversal I would predict uh you'll see first in the US a reversal of nuclear power policy we'll start building nuclear power plants again and I would then guess probably in Germany at some point they'll come to their census and do the same thing yeah and and the reason they'll do it is not because of humanitarians saying it's cheap energy and it's better they'll do it because Microsoft and Apple will tell them to do it okay they'll do it for Google and they'll do it for meta and they'll do it for big Tech right they'll do it for AI they'll do it because they need it to make their cars drive themselves and to give everyone an AI assistant and to make all the robots work wow so so yeah there's a digital intelligence Revolution it'll remake the energy segment it'll remake data centers it will eventually find every single white collar worker two billion white colar workers they'll all have an AI assistant okay Microsoft will probably sell most of them okay right so we should buy Microsoft stocks well people are yes I know you're not the first guy to have that idea you know guess what look at the stock yeah um so that'll Ripple but eventually we'll put it in cars our appliances our devices and then our robots and then they'll fight our Wars okay and I don't know there's good or there's bad there's terrifying but it is what it is and in the digital money area it's just the traditional industry is I have hundreds of thousands of of crappy products crappy assets traded by thousands of inefficient companies unnecessarily millions of times a week yeah and then I have a lot of people writing about it talking about it tracking it you know the whole industry yes and and the Bitcoin idea is what if I just had a good asset and I didn't have to trade it and I didn't need a company to tell me what to think about it what if I just bought it and it went up in value every year right so this is a big stock of complex inefficient stuff a lot of wasted energy and this is is one thing very simple that's why this goes up 50% a year and the S&P goes up 10% a year MH and as people look at that they'll realize I can get 10% performance with a stack of this inefficient you know thermodynamically leaking Ru Goldberg devices or I can just buy this one thing which is thermodynamically sound which will outperform all this stuff by a factor of two to five to 10 to whatever and so those two Dynamics they'll go hard for the next decade and they'll reform you know they'll reform your industry reform your job reform the social order it's so profound it's like uh you know you have a university I have a university you know it's online we give people free education and we think well maybe the AI needs to be incorpor in the course because everybody would like to have an AI Professor that knows everything okay well you know then you see on KH Academy KH goes yeah we had an AI but the problem is the when the student asked the question the AI gave the answer I'm like so what's wrong with that we need so we had to reprogram the AI to keep it from giving the answer we had to ask the student the question back why see we throttling me well because we want to be in the teaching business okay ah okay got it you know well what if the AI just gave you that the correct answer if I said you know I need a poem for my mother in in I Amic pentameter and you just get it and it's better than any human being on Earth can write tell me again why I need to take a course in poetry writing yes yes yes definitely why do you need to teach me to write it why do I need to learn it well because you need to be able to do it well why do I need to be able to do it well you might well you you need to do it because maybe one day the computer won't be available to write it for you well that's like that's like saying I've got explosives you dig tunnels and mountains to create highways we used to do it by chipping away now you can put the nitroglycerin in and you can blow a hole through the mountain this is a million one person can do more work than 10,000 people with this yeah okay well what if you don't have explosives here I'm going to teach you how to chip away at the mountain if I don't have explosives I'm going to get on my bicycle I'm going to ride to the city pick up some explosives I'm going to bring them back yeah I'm not going to go recruit 10,000 people and give them little picks and shovels and ship away at the mountain it's never going to happen yeah so the point really is the entire education establishment teaches you to do a set of things and has a certain set of subjects and has people that teach you the things and if the AI obliterates the people like maybe we have one AI Professor that does the work of a million algebra teachers oops maybe the AI does the algebra for a billion people oops maybe the AI just builds the product that uses algebra for the billion people oops maybe the AI just provides the service to the 8 billion people that used to be provided by the product but what are the rest of us all going to do and what it going to do well number one you're going to live off your Bitcoin if you own Bitcoin well if you're a taxi cab driver and the car is going to start driving itself you better be buying Bitcoin because your job goes away yeah what do you think it's a time frame yeah and more generally the big the idea is when you have a society with labor as an input and capital as an input and the price of Labor goes to zero and you have 10 billion robots yeah that work for free the capital is still valuable the labor isn't yeah true and so there's going to be a dislocation between the value of Labor and the value of capital and you know so while the the value is Flowing from the labor into the Capital you know the value is going to be flowing from the analog Capital into the digital Capital you know you ever see that Meme where there's the Assassin shooting the one guy and the other guy shooting the first guy and the guy up in the rafter shooting that guy Well everybody's kind of automating away everybody at the same time and uh and you know the truth is it's very difficult to know how the world changes Gibson said is the future is already with us but it's not even evenly distributed right so one can imagine that there'll be some places that will deregulate technology and you know you'll have self-driving cars and robots and AIS doing stuff and the people won't and you'll have other places where that's illegal yeah and you can't do that right and there'll be fights and you know and and the technology will diffuse at different rates and there'll be a lot of social unrest and the question will be how will the political system work but you know if you want uh if you want uh to look at a model I mean here here's the question right you ever you ever see a family of um a family uh with a lot of wealth so much wealth that none of the none of the children have to work so you got like six teenage or 62 something and 30 something kids in a family that's wealthy they don't have to work ever what do they do yeah right because drugs mostly right get bored some some of them yes not all I mean depend on the parents yes how to educate okay John D Rockefeller Jr didn't have to work that's not what he did what did he do yeah he created the Rockefeller Center He restored Colonial Williamsburg he conserved land and gave it to the world as national parks right he spent an entire life in philanthropy he spent money stamping out yellow fever so if you don't have to work there's a wide range of things you might do you might actually become hyper educated you might get phds you might create some new form of art you might work as a scientist you might travel the world you might fall into D election yeah you might go into politics it's really unclear right you might set off on a journey to Mars I I don't really know I mean the the fact is the society is not going to get poor that is we'll have more of everything what is your goal actually with micro strategy and perhaps with your personal wealth is there a goal you will buy the next 10 years every quarter Bitcoin or is there a number you say Okay I want to have 1 million Bitcoin and then I do good for the world or I bring more education out there okay so the question is what is micro strategy going to do you ask like three questions at the same time 10 actually so many questions for you no but what's the goal what's the what's the end game what's the goal for for micro strategy and yourself well those are two different things asking multiple questions what's the question micro strategy what's the goal micro Strate um micro strategy is a Bitcoin development company so micro strategy's mission is to is to develop Advocate support the adoption of Bitcoin everywhere in the world so that's what we'll do we'll do that forever keep doing that and you keep buying how will we do that we will do that by buying Bitcoin every single quarter buy more Bitcoin we'll buy it with cash flows we'll buy it with debt we'll buy it with equity we'll buy it with any other Capital markets activity that we can those opportunities will change from quarter to quarter from time to time I can't tell you how we'll be buying Bitcoin in 10 years but I can tell you that we will likely be buying Bitcoin we'll be uh supporting the education of Bitcoin cool yeah there's 45,000 publicly traded companies how many are on the Bitcoin standard one every time I meet companies and CEOs what do you think I say to them I say buy Bitcoin you should recapitalize your company on bitcoin well it's it's deeper than buy Bitcoin buying Bitcoin is like kind of a shallow colloquial thing your company is currently capitalized on crumbling credit right the conventional wisdom in corporate finance is to capitalize a company uh using sovereign debt instruments maybe t- bills three-month t- bills is the safest but it could be capitalized on Argentine debt Russian debt Chinese debt you know European debt there's a lot of different things you can capitalize on they're all crumbling 7 to 20% a year right so they're all defective um and conventional Corporate Finance is is to take the position that that uh we should minimize working capital we should adopt a toxic Capital asset in we should avoid volatility and the micro strategy philosophy is we should embrace volatility we should accumulate capital and we should adopt an creative treasury asset a creative Capital asset so we're attempting to reverse the polarity of every company in the world right I mean we will succeed in when Apple doesn't do 100 billion doll buyback when Apple says we're going to buy1 billion of Bitcoin a quarter and when Apple has $500 billion of Bitcoin and buys 10 billion a quarter they will have capitalized based upon in a creative asset their stock will be more volatile maybe and um right that'll be good for them good for Bitcoin right so I so our mission is to Drive corporate adoption and institutional adoption it's not just the corporations but also institutional investors fixed it you know the the world's full of you know there's a lot of investors that if you said to them Bitcoin has a volatility of 55 and and has a annualized return of 50% or 55% for the past four years if you said that to them and by the way that's 10 that's times better than the S&P do you want to buy it their answer is no why not or there because it's too volatile okay or maybe I can buy 1% 1% of my portfolio can be in that because it's so volatile but if I said to you um I will give you an asset that's got a volatility of 10% just like the S&P index yeah but a return of 25% double the S&P index they would prefer that okay and so like when when we create a convertible Bond we're creating a bond which has which has partial upside some upside but downside protection and what we're doing is we're allowing people to scrape off uh a yield or a return which is much less risky or less volatile than pure Bitcoin exposure right and if you know ironically if someone would invest a million dollars in an asset that gives you a 50% return with 50 ball if you said I'll give you 20% return with 10 ball they probably give you $100 million okay right if you said I'll give you a 12% return with a five ball they would give you billions of dollars and you're like I don't understand you're not getting that much they don't care but you understand that's if you look at the bond market the treasury bond market uh T bills have a five ball and their return after tax is 3% and they're a trillion and they're hundred trillion dollars yeah it's a trillion business so there's a lot of people that want low Vall low return there's a lot of people that want midv mid return right there's not that many people that want High Vol High return but if I give you High Vol High return and you run it through a heat exchanger you can actually spit out any return you want with various mixtures of volatility so another way to say it is the engine in your car is hot enough to burn you but we keep the fire in the engine right by the time it gets to your steering wheel it's not hot we're just you know the chemical energy into energy and we're driving the car so so micro strategy's mission is to create Securities that allow all these investors to buy most you know the investors that buy our convertible Bond they wouldn't buy the they wouldn't buy the underlying spot Bitcoin ever and they would buy more they'll buy they won't buy the spot ETF unless they can hedge it with something else that they short so like you'll see some funds Millennium has2 billion doar yeah of Bitcoin spot ETF that they own but they're probably hedging it somewhere else right definitely yeah and so by providing people with uh with all those instruments you attract Capital to the market and you allow the capital to come in with any mixture of upside downside volatility yield right and those are all useful features for uh connecting the Bitcoin Market to the traditional Finance markets so we'll do that and then we'll also keep educating and and we we'll do some software development as well okay you know but in terms of like econom the dollar value of what we're doing clearly the biggest dollar value is we're securitizing the market and we're educating the market and then if we can create apps to enhance the market we will so you're also very vocal about Bitcoin you're an educator many people listen to you there are also many memes on the internet when you watch them like there memes with you with music and everything like there is no second best are you smiling you're laughing or you're just like oh come on I think they're funny yeah okay that's great yeah um you you need a laser like Focus right and I think everybody at this point knows I'm a Bitcoin bull I'm I'm a Bitcoin guy like I believe in Bitcoin so if you want to say something funny about Bitcoin if you want to say if you want to beat on bitcoin and talk about if Bitcoin traded down and you want to show someone sad you can pick my face show me crying and everybody everybody gets the message yeah sure you know and a Bitcoin is having a great day you know then everybody and and you show me Happy everybody gets the message so you know people need to personify the asset if I change my mind every month and if I divided my attention across 10 different things nobody would remember what I stood for okay right so so the reason you go viral in the world is everybody knows what you stand for whether they agree with you or disagree with you at least they know what you stand for and um and I'm you know fortunate enough to have discovered Bitcoin and put on laser eyes and and the whole point of laser eyes is is Bitcoin Bitcoin Bitcoin okay Bitcoin so yeah it lends itself to memes and it lends itself to humor and I think anything that spreads the message of Bitcoin is good for Bitcoin so perfect I'm all for it I like the community I think it's good to all the jokes are great okay what is your family saying they're not like okay come on or friends they don't live on Twitter okay you know like a lot of the world doesn't live on Twitter okay that's great okay that's very interesting you know ironically like uh you know there's an entire rest of the world I mean I'll go and I'll post a picture on on Twitter and I get whatever X you know I got three and a half million followers and if it's a it's a nice picture I might get 10,000 or 15,000 likes but I've only got 200 something thousand followers on Instagram I post the same picture I'll get more likes yeah weird algorithm it's just well people do different things right people on Instagram because they're into photos and they're into into different things and they're on Facebook for their thing and and some people just don't even use social media so Twitter is for crypto Bitcoin yeah so if if you're not into Bitcoin reading books about Bitcoin educate yourself or on conferences like those what what what is Michael Siller doing in in his ler time are you I don't know are you spot if you go for a hike or what else are you doing well yeah when I'm not when I'm not engaged in corporate stuff yes or Bitcoin things then I'm if I'm reading non-fiction it's it's history it's economic history it's political history it's it's rothbard it's Durant it's biographies of you know the Rockefellers the warberg JP Morgan you know all these things so so there's a lot of that and then if it's fiction you know it might be science it's either science fiction or fantasy which I find to be inspirational gives you good ideas yeah yeah definitely it's what are you doing for fun and if I'm not doing any of that then then uh I'm out uh I'm out on the water I'm either on a boat okay you know I like the water I like boating or I'm in Parks I like I like landscape architecture and I like Gardens so I'll go tour wow I'll go tour Estates you know the Rockefeller Gardens I'll go tour great homes Kut or Belmore or San Simeon or I'll go up the Hudson River and I'll you know I'll tour you know Roosevelt's home or all tour places of interest you know up the eastern seab border go to Newport and Tour all the houses in Newport and delve into the history of the families that built them so that's all interesting or or great historic States in Europe right I mean there's a lot of history in Europe right yeah have you been to Greece for example yeah yeah I think it's just amazing I just went to Greece I saw the Acropolis for example and all these old theaters it's just amazing and yeah gives you another time to be um thankful and privileged that we're living in times right now that we can travel around the world so is there something about what's your favorite food for example because this is a new um side of yours actually I've never discovered or heard something that you like um architecture or landscape so is their favorite food which Michael S loves or all bitcoiners like steak I heard I don't know check are the same so you a carnivore as well we like steak okay what about European food it's different to the American food it's all good I like Spanish food I like Italian food I like french food I like are you you're waiting for me to say I like German food no no no no no no no no I like Italian food I like french food but the German food okay I'm getting to it I'm getting what about you're a beer guy or a wine guy you don't have to say beer because it's German yeah I'm not a beer guy okay red or white if I drink wine I prefer red than Wine okay yeah American or French I'm not here to promote wine okay yeah so I prefer to keep my comments focused on bitcoin yeah so you don't share you you you don't share private stuff and I just don't think it's that interesting to people right don't think it's distracting right think so I think people because I asked my community and and they ask me hey I don't even know has he family what is he doing in his private time and so on I think the people want to know things about you of course cuz they they look up to you so they even asked me what is his daily routine what is he having for breakfast this is like wow I won't ask him so you want to share anything with the community or with the people who look up to you or and dwise how they can be successful or have a better health Bitcoin great okay bitcoin's good yeah okay yeah what's what's the meaning of life for you if you're preps okay one day we all going to die and you look back what do you think what is the most important thing beside Bitcoin what's the meaning of life for for Michael saor I I think everybody should strive to achieve their full potential be the best version of yourself you can be but you were really successful I think you achieved a lot you think you're already happy and proud of your work and of your life or you think you can get better I think every day we should get up and determine that we need to be and should be the best version of ourselves we should we can be I think we should all try to achieve our best wow that's a perfect closing word actually Michael sailor thank you very much for your time and I hope you guys enjoyed the interview please comment please share and if you're new to the Channel Please Subscribe and of course you have to follow Michael on X I will post everything in the show notes I hope we can do this again it was a pleasure it was a BL it was an honor seeing you in person after all these years and keep up the good work please thank you you're welcome