ready [Applause] play hello everybody I'm here with uh Gavin McMillan as it says uh in his bio there it's from he's from the sports science lab although of course most of you will be familiar with him at least if you're a tennis nerd like myself as somebody who's been working with Arena sabalenka now actually I was about to uh give away when I'd like you to tell us gav mean when and where did you first come across um Arena um well I mean I'm she's professional tennis player so I knew who she was like all along and I had seen some of the struggles she was having uh you know at Australia when she was literally serving underhand and but colleague of mine named ducon vck who I've worked with for number of years with different players um he knew her her conditioning coach and Jason and he had mentioned me to them in March at Indian Wells and I actually met Jason briefly then and then which this G it was 20 had to be 22 okay and um he uh you know she just wasn't open to it she was like I think you know we'll figure it out we're going to do this we're going to do that um and it was like okay well see what happens right and I was in I was in Fresno where I am now California and it was a Thursday she was playing in the Canadian open in Toronto lost to golf double fed like 23 times or something and the next thing I know my phone rangs and it was Anton u dub bro calling and asking you know like is it possible for you to help us and stuff like that and I just said well yeah but I think it's better if I speak to her first and you know honestly I just asked her if she was okay I mean I don't I don't think people grasp like what it's like as an athlete to have to walk out into a stadium full of people know you're not performing well and you're still fighting her ass off which is what I respected about her the most and it's also how I knew this had nothing to do with being mental cuz anybody If This Were mental like you wouldn't even go out there anymore it would just be like this is a waste of time but this girl just kept trying and and you know it's like embarrassing you don't feel good about it you and she's like no I'm GNA just keep going so like from a standpoint of the perseverance it takes to be an elite athlete you know she had it and it doesn't take a rocket science scientist to see the physical gifts she brings to the table even though she hates talking about these and doesn't think that she has talent per se and I think it's laughable but you know it's an ongoing joke at this point because she's not you know kind of talented she's very talented and um but you know not doing things the right way and and so that was Thursday I was actually supposed to fly back to South Africa on Saturday and um they asked me if I could come to Cincinnati and I'm like uh I don't know and I like give me a couple hours and I'll see if I can figure it out you know and I call my wife and talked it over with her and then called him back and said yeah and so I flew out there the next day Saturday morning um you know we got to work but you know it was the phone call when I you know talked to her and just said you know I understand this has got to be you know really difficult time and but the thing I can promise you this isn't mental and if anybody is telling you that like just get up and walk away and I can prove it like your motion is so technically flawed like I don't know how you're getting them in at all and it's just a testament to the fact that she's pretty gifted and finds a way and you know you can see what ends up happening with the way these emtions are taught you know by people that where how these athletes getting in into this position and it's a difficult motion like in you know in a lot of aspects uh you know first of all you're tossing and it's a moving object that you have to hit at a precise time to get any type of consistency to it the conditions come into play from the wind to the Sun to everything else and then you know naturally I don't think girls grow up throwing as much so I think they learn it's a little bit more of a struggle to develop that overhand motion um yeah so then we got together we started on it on Saturday and uh she had to play Tuesday night and she dou faulted five times I'm like it's not mental it's not mental because that's the that's a kind of a goal right to get it down obviously I mean I think you mentioned obviously against Coco where she did it 23 times but if you're doing it over two or three sets five times or less that's kind of okay right we're in an okay Zone there no okay um where where I disagree with you on that is when okay so if if you're talking about they happen sporadically over a three set match where it's not stress points then yeah I would totally agree with you it doesn't really impact much but if it's going to happen on break point where you have to make it uh and you can't then that's a problem okay because this this is a game of Applied pressure right it's a sport that's determined by who can apply consistent pressure at the appropriate moment and not and not miss is and if you can't do that and you don't have the trust of it and so this idea that that that these athletes are failing mentally um I couldn't disagree with something more uh I've used the basketball analogy in the past a lot you know if you want somebody sitting on a free throw line with a game online do you want sha or do you want Steph Curry and if it's Shaq yeah of course it's mental he knows he sucks at it AC Green out now for the Lakers Robert Ory in that to get and K based Qui anding in the playoffs especially the last round against Portland comes in arms to the basket and that's what you have to do you have to make him free throws was on theer of the rockets in the mids he nevered Steph Curry knows he's really good at it he's put the work in his mechanics are solid he trusts it and so in a in key moments the only way people can execute things is that they trust what the work they've done then their mind calms down if if they know that it's not been working the anxiety Rises because the pressure of the moment reveals it it's that famous saying right that no athlete in the world Rises to an occasion they fall to whatever their level of preparation is and in tennis there's no there's no clear example of it because it's such a difficult sport to master there's seven different mechanics minimum no sport in the world requires that other than tennis the athletic ability it requires the speed the endurance the mental intelligence in terms of Point playing [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] and I don't think anybody's giving her credit for it's not her her serves improved yes dramatically but so is her forehand and so is everything else and honestly I think she's just getting started if she keeps working on the way she's working because like what she did in Dubai last year was significant in terms of her approach and um she was playing so well by the what by the time she went to Australia a as a coach you know you know that somebody's going to have to do something extraordinary to beat her and that's all you can do right because that's going to happen like you can and prepare as best as you can and then you run into Pete SAS and he serves 70% in a slam final well it doesn't matter what you prepared for he's serving 125 in the corners you're not getting opportunities so what you're trying to do as as a coach is to raise her game so that that she knows that she wins and loses with what her 85% game is and by that it's like 85% of your power spin placement what you know you can make Under Pressure those are what wi slams um what she did against Navaro Down 2 in the tiebreaker that shows the work she's put in because those next seven points yeah she faltered and then she got right back to work and trusted what she' been doing and played unbelievable seven points a and you know you look at the Improvement of Navaro who's a phenomenal athlete has a great coach um is a really nice person like they're doing all the right things you know and so it was an extraordinary challenge you're in a stadium full of people that want an American to win um obviously serve for the match didn't play a great game Naro played a little bit better but these moments you know that that are so stressful come and they reveal where where you're at so if if and I it just shows you that we have you know places to to improve which is what I'll continue to try to do and so will Anon um anyway so I I I think you know from a coaching standpoint what you're trying to do is set up a a a confidence in their abilities to execute shots under duress so if you look at the men's final and I haven't been able to watch all of it back as I was flying and um like the difference in Center's game that kahill and his other coach have made in the last you know couple years is is dramatic not not a little bit um they changed to serve you know to a pinpoint one which is a little more difficult because there's more moving Parts um but for him they felt like that was you know working better and unfortunate now just because of we've had some success that you know you can reach out to Darren and people and have conversations and you know they're like me they just they're trying to be the best they can at this and um and he obviously he in specifically possesses a lot of knowledge that's valuable to a lot of people and he's open to sharing it and this is such a difficult process uh anybody that doesn't think tennis is the hardest sport in the world to be a professional at is delusional I mean you know comparing it biome mechanically to golf is laughable golf does does have the physical demands even even remotely and there's really only about 40 or 50 people that'll make a living from it the rest are just getting by and even the top 50 you know 50 to 20 it's not that you know it's not like they're these people are millionaires from it they're not so yeah I mean most of all like with everything that's happened this year and the struggles she's had to face and I'm just really proud of of actually because I don't think that she played necessarily her best you know Saturday but she definitely fought her best and when it really hit the fan um she really trusted what she's been doing you know the four games in a row she never should have been in the position I don't think but I'm always looking at what we can do better you know I don't look at okay we did that well great you know let's cheer it on it's just not how my brain works and like so for me I you know you're up let's just we've got I've got to do a better job and Anton and I have to do a better job of making sure she understands what to do when she's leading and when she breaks gets these advantages sticks to certain patterns and make sure she's armed that way and Tom dubo that's her main Co he's had since you know five years or whatever he's a bit closer to sort of he's obviously sat front of stage s of things so in terms of messages during the match and take take Saturday's for example you know he's the one who'll be delivering those messages I guess are you are you whispering in his ear at all or yeah of course but listen and and I learned I've learned this in several places but the place I learned it the most was I used to I've done a lot of work with Freddy roach in boxing over the last whatever years and I've been lucky this way you know you run into these people that are you know they're outliers to a standpoint of they're great at what they do and when you watch him work a corner in a in a championship fight or actually any fight but where it really matters in these championship fights and how calm he is how simple he is and he's you know lets his fighter calm down gets them breathing and then with 20 seconds left in the time he he delivers a simple message of what he wants them to execute and you don't speak I don't I've worked the corners with him tons of times I don't talk there has to be one voice that's all an athlete can hear under this kind of stress and it's a very difficult relationship to establish trust that what they're going to tell you is going to work and obviously that voice has to be an on in those moments and obviously I give him my opinions and then it's up to him what to what to decide to tell her in in those moments and he's done a great job with it and you know when you see how other Corners can work in boxing and these guys are yelling and screaming at and he just go wow then but Freddy was different you know when he was a professional fighter he never actually won a World title but he was really close he grew up in a fighting family um it's in his DNA but he also when he stopped fighting because of his Parkinson's he went and worked for a world-class trainer for Years Learning and and trying to be great at his craft he just didn't assume because he was a great boxer that made him a great trainer and there's no more dedicated coach in the world than that guy and he's to this day no matter what he's facing you know physically me healthwise he's at his gym at 8 and he leaves at 8 at night and he respects work ethic same as me you know it's anyway so it's where you know you learn one of these things along the line that you know you want to think you knew it already but you probably didn't and he was you know I learned a lot watching him and he was uncanny at figuring out like our opponent's weaknesses knowing our fighter strengths and then how to execute Adam so you know again he's one of the best to ever do it and he's one of the best coaches period in sports not just boxing so these messages you know you learn and because we have such a small window like of openings of where you can try to communicate these things where to execute them everybody forgets in this process she's been doing all this making all these Chang um and still trying to compete you know imagine you're you're taking a worldclass baseball pitcher who's having location problems and you're going to change his motion three days before the World Series and he's got a pitch twice I mean everybody look at you like you're crazy yeah but that's what she did and you know the first times where like we really had like it was calmed down and like there wasn't this you know real pressure was was last year in Dubai I think was the best example and like she did a great job there and um I just urge urge her to continue because this girl you know is great and continue can continue to be great and she has the when she's firing on all cylinders and by that I mean hitting you know heavy spin first serves that jump out of people's strike Zounds hitting heavy ground strokes that jump out of people's strike Zounds don't go flat it's too risky there's little reward um and is working the point because when she's doing that she's so difficult um where she can get in trouble is if she starts rushing and things like that and starts giving away these free points and the girls can stay in it and I think in her offense it's a process of trying to understand you know the shots she has now and then trust them in big moments and she really did that like some of the Drop shots she pulled off we unbelievable um and that's all credit Anton like we started working on that um before the French Open like a lot more yeah Anton was really putting that into the um schedule a lot like every day and and it paid big dividends you know especially here um so she was playing really well again in at the French like I thought thought our match against Navaro the French was really solid served really big in some key moments hit big ground strokes and key moments trusted it playing well and then you know you get stomach virus the night before and up all night like she she didn't sleep she didn't you know it's how she how she even played I don't know but [Music] [Laughter] that was really a downer just because she was playing well again and then you know we go to Germany to play the Cross Court warmup and that that was not a good situation and nothing to do with her fault we showed up to play whatever that was a quarter semi and um and you know at 9:00 to warm up it's pouring rain it rained for 3 hours they let us on the court at 1200 for 15 minutes she played at 12:30 played five minutes and P had to pull out yeah and you know hurt her shoulder and and but in retrospect it's you know it's a bummer to miss Wimbledon because she's obviously a threat there but it also gave her time to fly back to the States regroup we had a good two weeks in Florida before we started the hardcore and she still hadn't put things together um but the match against samova in Cincinnati that was definitely where she got it together because it was windy conditions she served really well really trusted you know using a heavier spin for Ser served a super high percentage um we had a tough you know opponent obviously in the semi-finals and Arena played well but you know EA didn't play that as well as she's capable of and um but it was a big mental hurdle and then she played great against Pula in the finals other than one service game served 80 plus percent and if she's anywhere over 70 she's a nightmare because you're just getting so few looks right so sorry I guess I'm doing all the talking man but any no I want you to do the talk and I I have if I have a thought I I write it down in fact at this point I'd like to mention the the forehand was documented during the tournament where she was getting more forehand Top Spin speed than anyone else in the tournament even alarz even C and and Novak I think I had at least I've got it documented at 127 uh miles an hour no kilometers per hour I should say where 129 sorry compared to alcaraz at 127 sin 126 and Novak at 122 I mean do these statistics shock us do they shock you no not at all so they like in in the women first of all they're hitting FL ladder so what that that that statistic is a little deceiving because of it's not also um showing the RPMs so how much spins on it and and so it's not shocking that you know she's hitting flat flatter than alaras alr's ball is jumping at your ears and when arena is hitting with and we have a statistics guy that works with a Shane that does a really good job of tracking this because it it shows statistically when he's she's playing at 85% of her power with the right spin I think it's I don't know 20 I don't want to quote him but 2300 RPMs or higher that she's just dominating so her OPP opponents are winning like I think it's 35% of of their of the points only and in tennis we need to be 55 and we're good and so she's um she's uh you know when she keeps the the spin rate high but with what but with Pace then she's very difficult very difficult and that goes for her serve or forehand and her backhand so yeah I mean it it doesn't surprise me that the outright speed is is higher but I think you have to temper that a little bit with what is the um what are the RPMs on it because the men are playing with so much more spin than than most of the women are MH and the physical demands of the men's matches now is just in a grand slam is nothing short of absurd um what it takes to to beat these guys if you're watching you know the semi-finals between TFO and Fritz I mean obviously the physical demands D dramatically affected Fritz in the finals I think uh he won't admit that I'm sure but you have such a short window to recover from a you know five hour match at night and heat um it's difficult um so the whole point you know from my standpoint and also from sure Anton would tell you the same is just trying to develop this game where we can continually apply uh pressure um from our side um to theirs and keep pushing them back crosscourt until we have clear openings and then go after it what I you know and Arena when she's doing things correctly off offer first serve the goal is to use your first serve to set up the plus one and end the point that's our goal mhm it's not to hit an ace if you hit an ace great but what I want is you know if you're serving out wide to the outside I want it at 105 and jumping away so it's out of our opponent Strike Zone if if you hit an ace great if you don't they're not coming back at you with something that attacked you so now you can attack the next shot and the quarts open um so if you're T if you're going with that mentality it's taking that pressure off of just trying to slam an Ace and then hope and pray your second surve stands up and then the next you know obvious thing is make sure your second serve as an attackable and I thought that both Navaro and Pula did a good job of trying to attack it um she also wasn't hitting it as effectively early and then adjusted it and started trusting it a little bit more what changed do you think at that 53 moment in the final um I mean you mentioned a little bit earlier um did did did Jessica just drop down a little bit was there a pressure involved or or or what was maybe Arena doing differently from those last four games well first off the she you know this when she tried tried to serve it 3-1 in hell she made four errs so she gave that game away um and then pagul played a good game to hold but nothing spectacular but pula's game at three all that one she played very well okay you know she hit and Arena played okay maybe we get out of that game maybe we don't if she's playing a little bit better but Jessica hit some unbelievable winners and to Arena's credit she just turned around and said kept going and you know what we tried to say is look you get down just make sure you hold we have to put the pressure back on them to close a set out plus I would prefer to be serving first and a deciding set if we can have that opportunity um she played a very good hold game got out of that and then played a great game to you know to get it back to five all well now we're serving again your confidence is back and remember these things happen in increments like in in matches right where it really shows I think what the greatness of people like nadala and Novak feder through the years are is that they you know they get broken but they just come right back to you and don't let it phase them and so they're right back to work and and what she did is just switched back back into that gear of okay if you're going to beat me you're going to have to beat me playing well and trusted the fact that she's done the work and she's you know you you can't win at this level in any sport if the work hasn't put in to where you can trust the shots that you're trying to make in key moments you just can't and she you know she really did that she played very two very good games from five all and and and the game to break especially at 65 and it's nerve-wracking obviously your match point up and but you know stayed down and and really hit through her shots with Spin and pace and when she's doing that all the pressure now is on your opponent to come up with something bigger and if they do okay they do but keep doing it because you're going to have to keep doing this for another hour and we want to make sure you know that M and that's the point of all this that's why Novak's so incredible at what he's done the last whatever number of years it is now right is it's not that you don't have these moments where you're playing better the opponent does but if you can keep sending a message that you're not going anywhere I'm going to keep this level at this point something has to give it's another lesson that you know I learned through Freddy is that that you know so many of these box boxers and they rush they get over aggressive I and you have to trust what the plan is stop walking in there to try to knock him out walk down there we have 12 rounds to beat him up use it right use your job keep hurting him break his body down get his legs down if the opportunity comes to knock him out great but that's not what our goal is our goal is to win the fight and the best example of that was when um Miguel Cotto fought Sergio Martinez in m in squar Garden it's one of the best nights I've had in my career um and you know he Freddy had brought in this South African um Lefty boxer to imitate Martinez for two months and what's Freddy was really great at is he set a plan out two months and then he sticks to it and so the guy was Martinez would keep his front arm down and he would use it as a fake and he really got Miguel to buy into every time that fake happened I want you to attack you know Miguel has one of the best hooks in the world and use your job let it set up your hook and even though HBO gave us like no chance to win we were 20 pounds outweigh and Miguel caught him in 30 seconds in the first round in the head and once that happened you know his equilibrium was off he dropped him twice more in in in the first round my point to this story is um Martinez didn't quit until the Miguel just kept doing it he didn't get over aggressive he didn't try to knock him out because this guy's a wounded lion and if you walk into you can walk into a shot and be knocked out yourself just keep doing what you're doing sooner or later you'll get them and Miguel really did an unbelievable job of of doing that and again like I've been lucky you know Miguel Miguel Cotto is one of the best client or I've ever had in my life best person like he's just you know he was an extraordinary person to work with and I'm super thankful for it we talked about the physicality we talked about it on the men's side as well and the benefits that that perhaps Arena had inadvertently from that injury that I she saw her pick up I was there in I was watching you guys practice and then I saw that match I think that in Berlin there was a situation with the rain so I think you were having to play a quarterfinal and then potentially a semi-final but that's when unfortunately injury fled up but what I want to get to is it's also something that eager has highlighted various other people have highlighted that that these breaks Arena also announced in Berlin that she wouldn't be playing the Olympics and and and all the rest of it so my my thoughts are is is are we playing too much tennis on both the men's and the women's side would the product ultimately be better for all including the viewers and the The Spectators if maybe we played a bit less tennis or is that not something you concern yourself with too much Gathering no I I I 100% concern myself with it I'm not the one in our team to make those decisions like Anton is and but I'll tell you this like last year they upped the requirements like now she's got to play like these extra 500s that that's absurd it seems weird to me that you can think about this the rest the people at the top of this especially um they're playing more Arena's Arena and Jessica are the only two people that played Seven matches out of the entire tournament outside of um outside of Center and and Taylor mhm and so you're playing more so now you're going to tell her turn her around and tell her she's got to play this again this week she's shot mentally physically um she needs time to recover she's got to turn around and go to China in two weeks and if she doesn't like it's affecting you know the yearend ranking and you have to make these decisions now based on that you know like and you have to decide are we chasing the year in ranking I don't know like that's not up to me um so yeah it's a it's a huge impact on it they don't essenti you know what our offseason is it's three weeks yeah that's not an offseason no and so the extension of these clay courts into two week events you know it's just too much and I think the stress is showing um look I I love the US Open I love going there the people they the way that or you know the whole event is organized is amazing um but I you know EA had a very tough loss in the quarterfinals against um Jessica do we need to be showing her um upset you know in a private moment in in a warm-up area no I don't think we do you know you know that trust me when I tell you this as a team we highly respect what she does and last year they did the same thing to us when we lost you know that was infu infuriating you know these athletes should they have no no idea when you look at the comments that come it is so absolutely a joke these people that have never been in these stressful you know environments have any clue what it's like to walk out in front of 25,000 people two million watching fail have to accept that try to act with composure these are kids these are kids everybody forgets that and come on man we give them a moment let them if they need to blow off steam in a locker room by themselves you're telling me we have to have a TV Camera in there I I can't can't possibly disagree with this more so and and it does a disservice like what what is it you think you're gaining from this right you're not gaining anything like if you need to have that as your drama like you have a problem so and I felt bad for her I wish they hadn't done it and yeah so it it it all plays into this whole thing right like why aren't they figuring out a better way to Market these girls that's not Mark that is not marketing no what that is is actually showing that she's a human being well I already know that we don't need a reminder yeah and she should be able to all you know be allowed to have her moment and of you know it's devastating she wanted to win the tournament just as bad as we did h so last year like after that and you know Arena held it together till she got to the locker room and doesn't think anybody's watching you're telling me that's for someone else to see it's not yeah and anyway I was really upset I think Australia is similar now they have a lot of cameras everywhere I I don't know how it is for you guys and the players whether there's like saying you know do you walk into a room and you're like okay I know I'm being mean we have to know when the Mike's live in the Box I don't want what I'm telling Anon going public and that's nobody's business it's between me and him and whatever he decides to tell her and yeah so I to your point I think yeah it's too much and instead of you know I was disa like at the tour finals last year and you're trying to you're trying to say like oh you're doing a good job and everything else like the the video presentation like that they're doing like you have four different Grand Slam winners right all unique in their own way I mean you you look at what what arena pulled off in in Australia tell the story you look at what EA repeated at the French tell the story Von drusa winning Wimbledon which was a miracle tell the story and then the same thing with with Coco as disappointing as that was for us yeah it's a Monumental moment for her yeah tell the story right you know put you know start marketing because if you don't have greatness outside of just one person it doesn't work no nobody P buys you know tickets to watch something that doesn't have drama where Sports separates itself is that you know it's like watching a movie the first time you don't know how it's going to end and so if we if we aren't marketing these women the right way then how does the sport grow sure how how do you keep the viewers that you have this is the third most popular sport in the world I think or what it is it doesn't have necessarily the third greatest you know viewership and it doesn't bring the sponsorship money that golf does why no ask the question why I I I find that certain person for my perspective I'm a very very small out outfit Gavin but I have done a lot of events on the tour and I find that the people running the sport are not I don't I don't I think there's a lot of self-preservation going on in terms of I just want to keep my job I want to make sure that that's okay and and and newbies Like Me Maybe that's true on every level man yeah I'm sure but I'm saying to you I'm saying to them listen I mean I'm telling if you don't involve you die right Sports where it defines itself is right you you either produce or you get eliminated that's what makes it very unique profession there's a lot of professions you can skate by in and survive this isn't one of them and and it is impossible to be at the elite of it absolutely impossible and so I think you it's you have to then approach it you know you know to your point that they're trying to just keep their job and survive they have to thrive and if you're not thriving we have to get someone else why do you think the tour finals is in Riad now of course I yeah yeah and you everybody's trying to say it's a problem well how's that a problem somebody else is trying to come up with a better solution and they're going to it's just the reality of what we're facing right so what I guess what I'm saying is you know if you saw you know properly what these girls go through to get where they're at how do you not then have interest greater interest from that person's country greater interest because they're they've overcome like the adversity of Arena's overcome is enormous and you know I lost a parent young at 15 my mom passed away her she lost her dad at 19 it's horrible and so you unless you've been through it you don't know what that is and it doesn't matter like you know I was fortunate my relationship with my mom was extraordinary I I don't know what hers was with her dad it's your it's your father and now how are you learning where do you learn the ways of the world who's guiding you who's the one that holds you accountable who's you know it's and that's where like no matter what like you see the resilience she's had that's not normal and I think that's actually what got her through these last couple matches especially Saturday she was pushed and this year instead of reacting to what the crowd was doing or anything else she was backed into a corner stiffened her back up and just said okay and that's you know I respect that a lot so you know I hope this one you know she said it after but she needs to be proud of this is like this was a really tough one to overcome and to be able to do it in that stadium with that crowd and everything else and I think that it's a different respect level for her next year coming back with her the crowd and I get you know I'm I'm an American citizen I get it but at the end you know nobody's going to come and watch anything unless you know there's greatness and and and they have a chance at this like you look at the physical talents that out there right now I mean you know rabbach and his ball striking is extraordinary great serve um Koko's athletic ability is absurd you know obviously schek and her the way she's played you know the last few years and of course Arena and the physical gifts that she has and you just know like with her like if she keeps doing what she's doing and keeps improving things and if you just keep that in your mindset don't think about okay I know you want to win the tournament so do I but the only way we win it is to improve and that's the only thing you can control you can't control anything else and the sport demands that you respond to the different adversity the courts the stadiums the wind the Sun the crowd the opponents the balls are different at every event people don't even get that and so they're constantly having to find these adjustments and it's who adjusts the quickest in key moments right your health as well I guess you know you might be well I yeah the most obvious right if you don't stay healthy like how are you going to compete in in a sport that requires this kind of tough you know physical demands and then you don't even you're not even acknowledging what the stress of travel is Gavin I would like to see the the elite all the players be in the best possible shape having had a good practice let's say have good offseason a good period during the year to have practices as well where you can make improvements not stressed all in a in a good place of course this is a utopian idea but I think we're more likely to do that if the players are playing eight tournaments than if they're playing 13 or 14 yeah but they're struggling with making a living they're struggling with everything because the money isn't necessarily there of course you know it's better now and that if if you're in the top 90 whatever it is 96 for sure you're in the slam so that's you know 350,000 you're guaranteed so now you've got some security to it um because they have to pay their all their own expenses pay their coaches pay the travel pay everything and you know basketball player doesn't have to do that no right they they get paid by the team and and you look at if you look at the other leagues you know and the NBA which for years wasn't doing well and then they all of a sudden you know you have Larry Bird you have Magic Johnson who set the stage basically for Michael Jordan MH and it changed the the future of what the NBA is today and they figured out how to Market that sport the NFL is the same thing the sport I love the most hockey which I grew up in you know it's a sport where the GU those guys when the when the sport was young they had other jobs they didn't get paid enough and obviously that's not where it is today but you have to understand like where you are in the landscape and if you're not generating doll this is one of the mistakes that get made in this argument about men and women sports of course you want them paid the same but they have It's Entertainment so that the money has to be produced otherwise there's no payment for anyone but I think it's there it's just just not being tapped into we 100% agree so I I'm what I'm saying is they've got to figure out a way to try to Market this in a better way and Market what they're doing and what the product is the product is the players M like there you know in the NBA your product is Steph Curry LeBron James you know and then you just keep going down the list yeah and if you don't Market these people like what are what are people paying to watch um the usop had record crowds which was awesome um it it's an extraordinary facility and they're trying to upgrade it and you know you see that end of it but it also profits $300 million or whatever it is and and where is that money going what is it going to promote the sports and you know that's not up to me but for sure in the tour level I don't think that they're doing the job they need to be doing to Market this absolutely and it's hard so you just hope that you know enough of because these last two finals have had such great viewership last year and this year's that okay you're telling me you didn't sell that you sold it you you sold it and you got the the dollars from it it's how do you support these other events that the women are playing in that's where it has to improve you know obviously the US Open I think is doing pretty good job of that but um you just want to see it you know be what it can what it should be so if you've got multiple stars in this sport which they do figure out a way to sell it and Market it that's that that can't be that hard this is sports everybody loves sports I think if you gave me it for 12 months I think I'd do a slightly better job but that's my opinion um Gavin just before you go because I know I've had you for quite a while you talked about stars and I'm gonna go back a little bit because am I right in thinking that you and Monica sell us did you work with her at all or something happened so when I was still trying to play um Craig Harden who was coaching aage Lo at the time had me hired as a hitting partner for a little while and it was after she was stabbed um so it was a difficult time for her you know coming back but yeah and I and I it's funny you bring her name up because she would absolutely Drive these car girls nuts if she were competing today Monica was Fearless had a great return the angles that she played at um nobody plays on tour like this she could hit full out under pressure key moments unbelievable competitor she won eight slams before this event she was 20s or whatever she was and unbelievable tennis talent and I learned a lot like her dad was really great to me uh he was good with you know understanding how to coach a player and what to focus on and he was very uh shared his knowledge with you know the stroke mechanics that he thought with me and stuff I've always been obsessed with that stuff because there's so many things that I sucked at in my service was terrible and it always hurt me and I had a really good return I could break anybody but and athletically could run all day but if you're not taught right and not taught how to hit the ball how are you doing that when it matters you can't you're constantly searching for it and one day you have it the next day you don't you don't know why and all I've do tried to do is figure out the why and then be able to pass it on did you know you were going to sort of go into coaching at that it just or did it just happen or because I mean some Sportsmen you I hear soccer players talk about it even in their 20s they were already thinking about maybe becoming a coach for example but for you no I think mine was an accident I I've been in the mo most of my career has been spent in the conditioning side so the strength and conditioning side and early on I knew that this whole weightlifting platform didn't work and that you know it's one of the greatest lies told it's it's responsible for this epidemic of soft tissue injuries that we have it's easily provable um and I started seeking out like what were the best ways I I again was lucky to run into people that were trying to do the same um and ultimately you come across the Russian research that was done over like 25 years that helped a lot that was Yuri vashon's um work and just showing like so in in its simplistic you know manner it's the difference between understanding force and power and force just being mass times acceleration when your feet are in constant contact with the ground and just pushing an external object well that's just your ability of pure Force where does that exist in tennis nowhere the only time you're standing still is on the return and then you still split Stu so you're still using an elastic response you could argue it on the serve definitely uh that would be you're pushing off and your feet are in constant contact once they're moving it's all power and that's tendon based so it's the ability of the muscle to stretch and contract elastically and the energy is stored uh elastically in the tendons and then we say oh they're effortless Roger Federer no he trained that so it's balance and posture and understanding you know where the strength needs to come from and Tennis is dominated by lateral movement so it's the strength in your hips your low back your obliques your feet which are essentially the cars on your tire or you know the tires to your car and I don't care how much weight you can lift it means nothing to me and saying that a one rep max is going to improve a a tennis player's existence is is an absolute lie so and if the damage it does the heavier you go or 60% water okay and I'm putting 500 lb on my back uh you know most of these athletes if you looked at MRI scans and the disc bulges they have you can't do that and you can't take the risk so how are you going to Now train them for this so that's where most of my career was the the mechanics of it in tennis specifically were because I failed I started helping tennis players a long time ago the first one on tour was Zach fleschman I think we went from 780 to 104 in 10 months he was kind of a different animal though because he you know had been as a junior uh in the US Open semi-finals uh we joke about it to this day like you know i' met him when he was 16 like that guy's mind he knew how to win and he just technically was so flawed on so many shots like he was trying to make up time you know quickly U Brandon Nakashima who's on tour now I've hopped a lot on and off you know over the years um he's a little bit different in terms of his learning ability is unlike anybody's you've ever seen um Savant almost if he gets the right information he's able to duplicate it quickly uh which you it's just not that easy and yet he he can do that and you know he's really got himself in a positive position now back on tour he had a bad year last year and um but he he's a really great kid and and has intangibles you just can't teach the ability to stay calm in that and it's back to Arena I mean the intangibles for her you know she needed the confidence in what she was trying to do for her intangibles to come out and when people first you know said well you know she's going through these emotional things I'm like yeah yeah I get it let's let's see what she does once she knows and can trust what she's doing then you're going to know what her mental abilities are and you won't until then it's not possible so you're going to tell me that you can get somebody in front of you know the NFL's got to make a field goal in the last four seconds to win a Super Bowl and they're 10 for 50 at doing it yeah good luck no they haven't done the work so of course the anxiety you're going to have natural anxiety no matter what uh what calms it is that you know your mind knows that you can execute that skill because you've done it so many times and in before you ever stepped out there then your mind calms down and I'm not trying to eliminate like what you know psychologist work can be done but saying that you can get somebody to um improve what they're doing on on a tennis court just because they calm their mind I do not agree with you not possible you have to improve the skill and if they're still struggling then then we can talk about that and I think then there's a place for it but if you just have it's like saying you have some weekend golfer and you're going to you know train him mentally to to be a professional golfer that's going to hold up you know the other example I could give you maybe that'll make more sense is you know I grew up as a hockey player it's not like you're not in fights all the time I've trained multiple World Championship fighters in my life uh George St Pierre one of my favorite people uh if I have to get into an octagon with George St Pierre it might last eight seconds you know the skill differences with different solar systems like yeah so you know at the elite level of sports it's your skills and if these skills have been done like then yes then the the moment you trust them they should work it's it's really that simple Gavin I think that's a perfect way to um bring this at least this episode to a close of course there's a few more episodes and chapters in in Sabal lenka's career not of this year but in in years to come and and I guess still there's there's still a lot that that all of you want to achieve right oh yeah I mean I I said it after she won her first slam I just hope she lets this sink in and keeps going that this isn't you know what's enough for each person that's up to them that's not up to me of course I want her to continue like she has if she can continue on the path she is the rate she's improving when she's able to put time into this um she's one of the best ever to do it she's just you know but the work it's going to take over the next five years to achieve that is enormous you have to ask somebody else has to ask that question you know that's up to her it's not it's not up to me sure and nobody can you know Roger feder's path was his Novac is his Stephie graphs was hers another female athlete on the tennis tour that would cause a lot of problems for girls today because she's going to slice you to death and then she's going to set the forehand up she can run outrun anybody um Class Act you know phenomenal Champion but to win 22 slams like anybody realize what that takes that's a lot and and Serena obviously and all the work she did and the achievements that she's had um so these that's a whole different level of greatness and the work it takes is over a decade and up to each person that's not up to me or anyone else and if Arena decides that she wants to try to reach that levels then do I think she can become one of the best ever absolutely but that's a personal choice and because it's a huge sacrifice this is not a normal life you're living in a hotel 10 months out of the year uh you're by yourself it's not that simple it you know whatever people want to think this is of you know they have this great life and everything it's abolute hard work and it's physical labor and there's a ton other things that go into it yes if you make it the rewards are significantly different than the average person but outside of the top 40 they are really struggling to make it work and we got to figure that out because there's no first round that anybody wants to watch if these players aren't good and they aren't there so how do you have a product to sell right back to the same question I I have a few ideas but that's for another show Gavin big thank you uh for joining me today yeah it's great to meet you yeah you too and uh I'm sure we'll cross PS on the tour I was as I said I was seeing you in Berlin I was just a few meters away from you in fact I think we'd even emailed that day but you were bu no then we got hurt and it was a mess so yeah I know I know that was a bad day but as you said some good things sort of inadvertently perhaps came of it and we saw that on Saturday in particular so Gavin big thanks for joining me and we'll um catch up again maybe somewhere else on the tour thanks man cheers Gavin if you enjoyed this video make sure you hit that like button don't forget to subscribe and click that notification Bell so you don't miss out on all things 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