how do you set boundaries with someone that has a high conflict personality especially when you're scared maybe you're scared they're going to pull grandkids from you maybe they're scared they have something else over you and they're going to pull that card you set boundaries with them the same way you would set boundaries with the 12-year-old hi there welcome back to the mind your boundaries podcast I'm your host Jess ciller this is episode number seven and we are diving into the choppy Waters and setting boundaries with loved ones with high conflict personality it's a lot but today you're going to learn what is high conflict personality the common traits what not to do how to diffuse or lower their defenses when you are trying to communicate with them how to set boundaries with them what else and I have real life stories and scripts of course so grab a piece of paper and a pen CU you're going to want to take notes and if you do have a close loved one that you feel like yeah they're just running rampant over over my life this episode is going to be so helpful in terms of educating you on what you can expect from them and how to set boundaries let's get our fingers ready and in the comments I want you to tell me how common do you believe high conflict personality is is it one in 500 one in 100 like one out of every hundred people you meet they'll have a high conflict personality how common is this according to Bill Eddie he has dedicated his entire professional career from being a lawyer to a a social worker to now he just researches high conflict personalities and everything about it he says one out of 10 have a high conflict personality whenever I read a stat like that I think doesn't make sense so I reflect back to my life and just in my family alone there's two out of six kids kids have high conflict personality every single person in my life that I could think of when I'm just sitting here thinking they have a high conflict personality in their life and in the 10 years of my private practice work I mean maybe a handful of people haven't directly talked about a high conflict personality in their life however I would guess it's probably because that wasn't their focus like that wasn't why they were in therapy I want you to feel less alone because having somebody with a high conflict personality and dealing with the what they put us through it's embarrassing we feel like it's just us we look on social media everybody's with their families with their adult kids with their grandkids on vacations and it just seems like we're the only ones having to be up late into the night you know managing text messages and phone calls is telling us what a terrible person we are because we wouldn't watch grandkids cuz we have a colonoscopy the next day like whatever it is it just seems like I would never allow anyone to ever treat me like this ever if it wasn't my daughter my spouse maybe my mother my brother like it's embarrassing what we tolerate and so we don't talk about it and I want you to know with that stat and just with my own experience whether professionally or personally just with people I know it's very common and you're not alone this is going to be a really good talk about helping everybody have more empathy for high conflict personalities and also encouraging you to raise your bar in in terms of what you expect in how they treat you so I'm not here to bash them because we all have there are loved ones why would I do that and I don't believe they're behaving this way on purpose I do believe that they can have some control over their emotions I'll explain that in a second but I really firmly believe they don't like this conflict either it just seems like it's always there like there's always something but they don't like it either what is high conflict personality it is somebody that always seems to have conflict with someone whether it's the same person like it's always their mother or it could just be multiple people but their homeostasis seems to involve some sort of drama and I'm not saying that that's what they want I'm just saying that's what seems to always be happening is they always seem to have some sort of conflict they don't compromise they do not accept constructive criticism or feedback they're very defensive and yeah they like to blame others so more common traits for someone that has a high conflict personality they have intense emotions intense especially in relationships they can't control their emotions can't control I will challenge this a bit and I have some examples they have typically they'll have an intense fear of abandonment they have really low self-esteem some of you might think really they don't ever accept feedback they don't come across that way yes they have a shattered sense of self and so their their self-esteem is is not good they're very defensive if you disagree with them they're super sensitive to slights like very very very sensitive that's why you always feel like you're walking at eggshells because they're just they're ready to pounce like you can just feel it they're ready ready to have those gotcha moments and you're just like oh my God I didn't mean to hurt your feelings it's also difficult for them to stay on topic when you guys are fighting you might be arguing about not being able to watch the grandkids because you have a colonoscopy appointment or you are required to be at the church choir and they are just throwing insults at what a bad Grandma you are and how you're never there for them and then in the next breath it's just like 5 years ago when you were putting away the Thanksgiving turkey and you blah blah blah it's like what what what like how did we get way over here so it's very difficult for them just like a 12-year-old when you'll you'll hear me reference a 12-year-old as like the basis because there's a lot of similarities in the way that a 12-year-old handles emotions and and they're able to or unable it just kind of spews out of them and it's jumbled it's just all thrown at you when a 12-year-old gets upset it's very similar now that i' have explained the common characteristics the comment rates why don't you drop just a hand if you feel safe enough cuz I don't know if your family members on YouTube and they happen to find this video but maybe just do the hand emoji if you know somebody in your life or you have somebody in your life with a high conflict personality just drop the Hand Emoji wave like me what causes high conflict personality three things three main things genetics trauma and mental illness some other things to keep in mind high conflict personalities are all or nothing thinking so they are black and white there is no gray it is very important for them to get the desired outcome that they seek and they will do it at any cost it is wild and I'll talk about the some of the things that they'll go to some of the links they'll go to to get their desired outcome and it's because it's all or nothing good or bad and it's the same way they think about themselves so you're all good or all bad so if you accept accountability if you accept your role in a conflict it's not like they made a mistake it's they are a mistake they are bad you're all good or all bad same as when we were 12 if a friend was mean to us betrayed us what a crappy friend what a crappy person right they're all bad if your dad didn't let you go to a concert in the cities as a pre-teen with your friends you were like what a crappy dad he's a bad dad doesn't get it and now you look back and you're thinking well even if a friend does something to you now you're like oh you're not a bad friend you just made a mistake my dad wasn't bad for not letting me go to that concert he actually was being protective because the parents that were taking us were really irresponsible and he was afraid for my safety I couldn't see that when I was 12 I didn't have a gray part in my brain I only had black and white so he was all bad at that point and I just hated him for so long for making me miss it now I can see like no I mean obviously he had his reasons obviously my friend if they hurt me they would have their reasons I can see gray now people with high conflict personality they can't see gray and with their low self-esteem and their shattered sense of self it's very difficult for them to admit mistakes because if they fear that if I am all bad like so if I say I did this wrong that means I'm all bad and they think that that wave of intense emotion like they wouldn't be able to handle it and so they just they don't even try to wait into those Waters because the black and white thinking and that to me it gives me so much empathy for them because it's it's very frustrating as the loved one to never have your your family member just admit fault just any responsibility in any of the drama that they cause it's so frustrating but then when you look at it like they feel like they would be just taken under by Under by accepting any of the fault or accountability because they see it as then I am all bad like I'm just garbage human then I understand it and then I have empathy all all of this feels like our high conflict personality family member is very selfish but if you put it in terms of a 12-year-old 12-year-olds are really selfish too because they see the world as what the world does to them like how the world impacts them that's why they're always like the victim and what happened to me today it's very self focus that's the way their brain is structured and then eventually in development our brain like it flips and our perception then goes out to how I impact the world for them it doesn't it doesn't flip out it just it just stays inward so that to me says it they're they're unable to see things my way and when I when I know that someone is not able that they don't have the skill set again that gives me great empathy for them I don't blame them then because I understand they just can't I really want us to have understanding and I really want us to have a lot of compassion on this podcast not judgment and that's why I'm trying to really dig deep so that you understand like high conflict personalities I have to tell you they are some of my favorite clients to work with because they they are the most misunderstood and I I just I love them and I I mean my colleagues they feel like they're just a malpractice suit away you know they're just sitting there waiting to explode and I feel different I I hold them in such tender regard and I have high expectations for them during an intake I can sense right away like in the first 15 minutes if that I can tell if I'm with a high conflict personality type person and I will set the expectations right then and there letting them know these are my expectations of treatment and this is how I hold the line and they will tell me because they want me to like them they want to be accepted they'll tell me I can't control my rage I can't control when I get upset the things that I say so I want to respect your rules but I can't to that I follow up with have you ever been pulled over by a police officer have you ever had an interaction with a police officer that was unpleasant like you got pulled over you were late you didn't want to get a ticket didn't want your insurance to go up how did you treat that police officer even though you were upset were you screaming at them did you get hauled to jail like have you been in prison cuz you just can't control yourself the answer is 100% no and then I tell them you haven't been giving yourself enough credit your whole life you do have more control than you realize and I know that you can treat me with respect because I know you're capable and that's how we will operate because you can do it and from this moment on now that you're aware that you have this capability this is only going to get better for you in your life wanted to tell you that so that all the moms out there all the daughters out there that feel like they just can't help it and we tell ourselves that to stay in relationship because if someone mistreats us so much if we feel like they're doing it intentionally we'll start to hate them and we can't hate our children children can't hate our moms right or dads but we will start to really dislike them strongly if we don't tell ourselves a reason or a lie saying they can't help it so that's why they do it so I understand why we tell ourselves that and now we have to start telling ourselves something different so that we raise our level of expectation so that we receive better treatment and they feel better about themselves I'm telling you they don't like the way they treat you they feel horrible shame which then goes back to reinforce their poor sense of self high conflict personalities will go to Great Lengths to prove their point and to get their or achieve their desired outcome like I mentioned they will lie they will create fake accounts on social media to agree with their posts so then they can say hey everybody else agrees with me look at what they look at what they all are commenting they spread rumors about you they will say absolutely god- awful things to you in a fight like horrible things that you would never say when you're not fighting and that they don't mean but they'll say it they'll tell everybody that they can how horrible you are to try to get them on your team or on their team and they are consumed with trying to achieve their desired outcome in the conflict it would be awful to go through the world like this it'd be awful to feel like you have to go to all these extent like to this extent to prove your point awful and timec consuming and to that we should have a lot of empathy engaging with a high conflict personality can be exhausting scary and it can hurt our mental health if we don't have boundaries that's why we need them here's what you do not do with someone that has a high conflict personality you don't tell them uh I listened to this podcast and I figured out what's wrong with you you have a high conf personality don't do that nobody wants to get labeled you don't like to get labeled I sure don't like to get labeled I don't even like to get labeled when I'm hormonal seems like that's it's that time of the month oh are you PMSing I wonder if you're on your period my poor husband don't say any of these three things just love me more that's what I tell them just love me more nobody likes to be labeled so don't tell them this is what's wrong with you don't argue details they will win every time I'm telling you it's like they have a machine gun loaded up with every slight every time you've hurt their feelings then you didn't even realize it they have it loaded up in a magazine and they could go forever all day and all night and just shoot shoot and it's just like holy crap it's so overwhelming like it's so overwhelming you will never win on that what you do do though is you show empathy you show empathy and you say I hear that you're hurting and I want to help and then you present two Concrete Solutions but you stay away from the details so every time like so if they're talking about you not watching the kids because your colonoscopy appointment you can just say I hear that you're hurt by this and I want to help we can either ask your dad or X like so you always you just say like I hear you and then so if they're talking about the oscopy appointment and how terrible you are and how you don't care about them and you're a terrible grandma and then they all pull you slam you right back into 5 years ago with putting the turkey away and you did this to them at 8:00 at night with the Ziploc bag and made them feel so stupid in front of their aunt you're just like oh my God I hear that you need my help tomorrow and you're really disappointed that I can't here's two options that we could try so that you can have child care because I can't cancel my appointment so you don't go into the details you stick with I hear you I want to help and here are two Concrete Solutions they will win every time wrapping you in a web of details and it never works never ever ever say like I don't even think I put away the turkey oh my God the details will fail it will it will bury you every single time so just show empathy present two Concrete Solutions or options as a solution and see if you can help that way much like you would help a 12-year-old solve a problem like maybe they have something going on with a paper or an assignment okay well I can definitely tell you're overwhelmed and stressed out and you feel like the world is ending and this sucks and here are two things we can do about it to just present two Concrete Solutions for them how do you set boundaries with someone that has a high conflict personality especially when you're scared Maybe maybe you're scared they're going to pull grandkids from you maybe they're scared they have something else over you and they're going to pull that card how do you set boundaries with them you set boundaries with them the same way you would set boundaries with the 12-year-old I'm not saying that to be demeaning at all I'm saying that to provide you with perspective in terms of what you would allow from a 12-year-old versus a 43y old it's the same thing so would you allow a 12y to text you nonstop insults and call you and hang up or be out in public and cause a scene or be in your home that where they don't live and make you feel like a garbage human being would you allow that treatment from a 12-year-old absolutely not you would put them on pause you would temporarily block their number you would ask them to leave you would remove yourself from the situation and if they're a 12-year-old they get a consequence right you are grounded but you have to look at it like this is a 12-year-old having a temper tantrum and this is what I would do I would model healthy boundaries because they are unable to stop the spewing so I'm going to put them on pause because they are unable to and this is how I will model it for them I am their gutter guards because they're 12 even though they present and they look like 43 year olds think about it as How would I behave if this was a 12-year-old let's go through a couple examples so you understand if they're texting you like just really bad things you can let them know I'm going to temporarily block you right now because this is really hurting me and I don't deserve to be treated this way I will not be treated this way and then you temporarily block them and you just periodically check to see if they're done if they've settled down same with the phone calls if they're calling you and you say I will not be treated or talked to with this dises respect I am hanging up now and we can try to talk again tomorrow done if you are in public and they are talking to you with disrespect you can say I hear that you're hurting right now and I want to help but you have to do it in a respectful manner or I am going to pay my bill and get up and leave and how you hold the line is you actually do temporarily block you actually do hang up the phone and talk tomorrow and you actually do get up and pay your bill and walk out if they're at your home and you want them to leave and they won't leave you can remove yourself from the situation or you can add a third party you can leave or you can have a neighbor come over a family or friend come over to relieve the tension The Last Resort and this would only have to happen once for them to realize you're freaking serious you can call the cops you can call the cops and just say I need help removing someone from my home yes you're probably thinking oh they would never forgive me and yeah you're looking at it like what am I doing doing to them what are they doing to you I'm telling you it would be the only last and only time you would ever have to do that a boundary is to keep you safe balanced and to strengthen your relationships it always begins and ends with you especially with a 12-year-old especially with someone with a high conflict personality it's up to you to change your behavior to protect yourself so you need to stay calm firm and consistent just like a 12-year-old you cannot set a boundary one week skip it for a couple weeks and then reset it that's not a boundary that's lazy parenting you need to set the boundary and you need to stay consistent because just like that 12-year-old they're going to try to poke and poke and push and push and push and push and see is this boundary real and you need to stay consistent 100% of the time let's go through some real life scenarios some real life stories so that you understand how some people have successfully put up boundaries with their family members and how they're doing now Sandy came in to see me after Decades of trying to live a life with her daughter that was just out of control she basically owned Sandy owned her time she used her for daycare used her for money and used her just as her verbal punching bag whenever she had a bad day and Sandy came in with anxiety depression wasn't sleeping and she needed to have tools she wanted to have tools cuz she's like I just don't think I can I'm communic right with my daughter and I need some help with that it took a long time for her to gain the gumption and the courage to set a boundary with her and the first one we set was around her time Sandy loved being with other people her friends her church she had other children and other grandchildren she missed out on all their events because she was always trying to keep peace with her one daughter that had a high conflict personality we set up a schedule when she would be open to babysit and she finally gave it to her daughter her daughter escalated did not like any sort of limits and it was really rough for a while but Sandy stayed with it she held firm one thing like one time her daughter showed up unannounced on a day she knew her mom had breakfast with her girlfriends planned she showed up right when her mom was should be leaving and said I need you to watch the kids I have this extremely important meeting and what Sandy did to hold the line which she did very well she grabbed her purse grabbed her keys and she walked out to her car and she said I'm so sorry this is not a scheduled day I have plans and you know if it was a scheduled day I would help you here are the other options that I put on the schedule that you could call and I hope I hope you can find somebody else she took off went to the cafe once she got there mean she could hear her phone pH vibrating the entire time her the entire Drive she got there she could see all the Miss calls all the text she did not look at them that was a personal boundary and she hit temporarily she blocked her number 2 days later her daughter just texts her out of the blue asks her if she could watch the kids it was a scheduled day that Sandy was open and she's like of course comes over drops kids off nothing was ever said about that behavior she just followed it but this is going to be Sand's life she will always have to hold the line and it will just get it will explode and then it will come back around and that will be her job in order for her to have a life outside of this one daughter when she has other children other grandchildren in order for her to be able to live a life this is going to be her job which is holding the line she also said a boundary of the way she treated her told her that you will not talk to me with such disdain and disrespect I will end the conversation or remove myself from the situation and she does the same things temporarily blocks her leaves the lunch whatever or asks her to leave her house and that is how Sandy said that up and to my knowledge she's living a good life and making sure she's experiencing lots of memories with everyone in her family not just the one daughter Ashley was married to John and John had a mom that consumed the majority of his time if he wasn't over there building a deck he was on the phone listening to her complaining about co-workers that were sliding her it was a lot and Ashley felt so bad for John so she came in and wanted to know can I set some boundaries with my mother-in-law because not only is he always over there fixing her house now our house is falling apart but also she's interrupting family time like we will have plans for the day to go out on an adventure and she'll call and it's everything stops and she wanted to know can I set some boundaries there and I said well you can't change her behavior the boundaries would have to come from John but what you can do is you can decide how much your mother-in-law's Behavior gets to impact your life and your home I suggested what if you had a handyman that you told your husband well I'm going to start hiring Phil to fix our house while you're over there doing jobs for free for your mom also if your mom calls an inter family time we're going to continue on with our day let me tell you it only took a couple times for Phil to come over it only took one time for their family to leave on an adventure and John was stuck at home in the driveway talking to his mom and that's when John set some boundaries with his mom Daniel had a sister that always had a lot of drama going on with their mom and he she would call him and vent and vent and vent and dump on Daniel and this was fine for a very long time until Daniel started to realize realiz she was spinning a lot of lies and he didn't like that so he started distancing himself from her and as soon as she felt that she felt slighted by Daniel and then her wrath went on him she like went on the attack like verbally texting social media she would put these long posts she started texting their daughter that was 17 it was wild and so they came in to try to see what they could do about this situation and very quickly asked if anyone in their family had ever gave his sister a consequence for the her Outburst for acting this way and he couldn't remember a time of anybody just sitting her down and saying knock it off and the other layer of this is he had a business in town so the social media posts and commenting on his stuff for his business his friend suggested you should do a ceas and assist to get her to at least stop on your business it's obviously a lot of cons of getting being legal a legal team involved in Family Matters they did decide to proceed with that they sent the letter they also decided because I asked him what do you do with all the content that she she posts on social media what do you do with the text and the phone calls and he's like I listen to it all I read it all I don't respond and I'm like why do you do that and he's like I don't know I just feel like I should know what's going on or what's being said about me and I suggested an alternative like what if you didn't do that what if you blocked her you didn't see the content how would that impact your mental health and they both agreed that would help so they blocked her on all their family phones on social media and this went on for about five years or no five years five months and they'd already set boundaries in place and they're as a couple like this is what we're going to do should our families reunite so when they did reunite they made sure she knew like we will not be The Dumping Ground for drama we will also not not be talked to in a demeaning way like you will not show us this level of disrespect again that was said Peace was made I reached out to ask for consent to share this story because this happened over eight years ago and in the over longer than eight years he has never been disrespected once by his sister in that time isn't that interesting so everybody in the family would say she could not help it he's the only one that stood up for her to her and he's never been disrespected since then and the drama still continues but he is not a part of it and he doesn't experience any of the Wrath ever since he's like sit down time out we're not taking this I think that's like really affirming okay that is all I have today I hope that you learned what makes up a high or you know like what qualifies a high conflict personality they they often blame people they're the victim they often have drama or always have drama going on and then how to kind of diffuse the situation a little bit so you can have a conversation by saying I hear that you're hurting I'm here to help and then provide two Concrete Solutions do not get wrapped up in the details also do not tell them they have a high conflict personality and how necessary boundaries are and remember a boundary is meant to keep you safe balanced and strengthen your relationships it begins and ends with you and when you set boundaries with high conflict personality it's all about you holding the line cuz they will not it's you putting in the gutter guards it's you holding the line on repeat because you deserve to have a life that you love you deserve to have time with other family members you do not deserve to be treated this way and I hope you watch this podcast again and again and again until you feel confident enough to set some boundaries because you do deserve more and it's really helpful when you are dealing with a high conflict personality and they are very close to you like a child or a mother to have professional help it's truly invaluable so don't be afraid to reach out and hire a licensed professional to figuratively hold your hand through this process I hope you found this helpful and until next time make sure you mind your boundaries