major funding for this program was provided by The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the California Council for the Humanities a state program of the National Endowment for the Humanities additional funding was provided by the Helen and debmar Walter endowment fund and this station and other public television stations Nationwide uh good afternoon CL Judith nice to see Judith how are you just fine why don't you step inside it's one of those Pian very nice was delightful hey Bill how are you on July 23rd 1930 The Lemon Grove School Board called a special meeting some residents of Lemon Grove were concerned about the growing numbers of Mexican American children in the elementary school bill I was up on the Brian track last week how your new Grove's working out by outward appearances Lemon Grove was a peaceful rural community Mexicans and anglos lived in separate parts of the small town located just outside of San Diego California well let's get started the Anglo Community had little social contact with the Mexican Community except in the grammar school where the children met as equals all right uh today we'll dispense with the regular business I called a special meeting for one reason we received a formal request from the PTA which Claire is going to present to us Claire thank you Andy as Secretary of the lemong Grove parent Teachers Association I have been asked to approach the school board with the following request whereas we the members of The lemong Grove PTA deem that an emergency has arisen at the lemong Grove grammar school we request that the school board establish a separate school for the Mexican children of this District we feel that such a school has become a necessity due to a severe situ situation of overcrowding in the present classrooms furthermore the Mexican children are deficient in their knowledge of the English language causing their classmates to learn at a much slower rate a separate school would also improve the general situation of Sanitation and morals in the school which has been deteriorating we respectfully ask that the school board consider action on this petition immediately thank you CLA any comments well I can speak speak for the Chamber of Commerce we would back the idea from what I've heard there are just too many kids in that school you know I understand that last week the toilets backed up oh that's not the first time that's happened Chamber is planning a big promotion right now with the advertisements in the newspaper and lots of publicity if we want to bring new people here I think we've got to have a separate school for the Mexican I thought we were taking care of the Mexican problem with Katherine Elliot's class doesn't she teach most of them now look Katherine doesn't have all the Mexicans anymore the older ones are moving out of her class last year the members of the PTA went to each of their homes we wanted to take their children to the dentist Lord knows we tried to impress upon the mothers the importance of common cleanliness but those homes well they've got so many kids and if there's a stick of furniture in any of the rooms it's a surprise most of the boys just run around Barefoot Heaven only knows what diseases They're bringing back to school well I think they be very grateful for a school over in their own neighborhood they live together they work together they have their own parties they should have their own school do you really think they'd want that my son tells me that Miss Markland has to repeat herself over and over again for those kids it's embarrassing for all the kids maybe they would feel better with their own kind they wouldn't have to work so hard just to keep up but I'm still a little worried about their reaction you don't think this would cause a problem not a bit separate schools are very common in Chicago they always had them for foreigners it's the best way to americanize them there's no reason a Mexican School wouldn't work here well I don't see any reason for any further discussion is there a motion I move that the school board establish a separate school for the Mexicans second any discussion all in favor done Bill I'm going to point you to a committee check what began as a simple decision by this school board would have far greater impact on the small community of Lemon Grove than anyone on the school board could have predicted Lemon Grove in 1930 was like many rural towns in Southern California mild Winters made it an ideal place to grow lemons and oranges the town grew up around the railroad tracks which carried its Citrus away to the rest of the country the Sanka Brothers General Store served as the social center of the community Mexican workers contributed to the growth of lemong groves Industries working in the rock quarry the packing house and the Citrus Orchards lemong grov only element elentary School enrolled almost 200 students by 1930 the fact that nearly half of these students were of Mexican heritage was a threat to some residents for these children the decision to build a separate Mexican School marked the beginning of a dramatic episode they would remember all their lives they thought they could get away with it that we were too dumb it was not the kids uh that fought over who had to go to school second grated a whole G it was the parents we never bothered anybody we mess with the kids a lot you know because a lot of those people they were law abiding then you know you hard workers and they live by the law and everything and here for somebody to do that to them you know to their children they were I think they were hurt you know at that time uh racism and Prejudice didn't seem to be very prominent role in our lives as as as children but see we always had that feeling you know they didn't want us around they somehow or another you knew you know like many of their countrymen the first Mexican settlers and Lemon Grove came North to the United States in the early 1900s many Mexicans were fleeing the turmoil of the Mexican Revolution of 1910 While others were seeking work in the booming border region during the 1920s as new families arrived in lemong Grove they settled near one another on Olive Street creating a Mexican bario similar to the Mexican towns of other Southwestern communities many of the Mexican families in lemong grov had roots in Baka California and had met each other on the trail North as members of these families married one another and baptized each other's children they strengthened the solidarity of the community they used to have dances here about every month every twice a month the Mexican Community to have the dinner my would make tamales and sell and that's where everybody used to go to dance but mostly was in the House Parties birthday Pary baptism also even wakes when somebody died we didn't invite any American people oh no no we didn't and my father used to tell us at home when from the door outside you're in the United States from the door inside you're in Mexico I sell the Mexican newspaper and in order to to be able to write the the people's names I had to learn how to read and write in Spanish so my dad taught me the alphabet in Spanish and then I learned before I went to school I touch my eyes I touch my eyes I have two eyes I have two most of the Mexican-American children spoke Spanish at home but when they came to school the instruction was in English to teach them English many school districts put Mexican-American pupils in separate classrooms called Americanization classes I have one nose I have one nose I touch my fingers I touch my fingers I have 10 fingers I have 10 fingers I touch my mouth I touch my mouth I have one mouth I have one mouth come in good morning rera to good morning Miss Miss Mar ask me to bring you this thank you sh sh sh boys and girls please thank you Roberto you can go back to your class now thank you Miss did you see that boys and girls you can all learn from Roberto's example he came in very politely he didn't slam the door he took his hat off he gave me the note and he said thank you now that's the way all of you should learn to behave you know the thing would would give you to pass you sometime sometimes she give you a test to pass but a lot of time most of the time she said who wants to go to the second race second grade raise your right hand I don't remember them pushing any any kind of education towards us you know if uh usually if we got our line they send us home she had too many children newcomers that were coming in you know we were getting too old to be there now boys and girls we're going to review the different kinds of clothing I want you to repeat after me for many school districts it was an easy step to move Mexican-American students from separate classrooms to entirely separate schools this is a skirt in the 1920s separate Americanization schools were created in community after community in the southwest following the established practice of segregated schools for Native Americans Asians and blacks by the end of this decade the majority of Mexican-American children attended segregated schools it's a sweater and that is a sweater the next order of business is the progress on the Olive Street School principal green will present a report well I believe everything is in order the new building is almost finished I've notified all the teachers we're making plans to send the books and personal belongings of the Mexicans over to the new school right now will we be ready to move into the school after Christmas well everything will be ready but I feel well that is don't you think it would be a good idea to notify the parents in some way Say by sending a note home with the children so that they know about this move well I just think it would be the proper thing to do but suppose the Mexicans don't like this idea look Jerome I guarantee they'll like the idea there aren't going to be any problems we send a note home we might have some problems Andy I really think it's best if we don't commit ourselves in writing on this one yes Ed I agree Anna is there any other business we need to approve payment for the design of the ol Street School oh theel bill I think we were playing ball and right there on on North and Ali right almost on the corner Mr Green he was either driving by I guess or somebody and and he called me over good afternoon Mr Green and he asked asked me would you do something I said sure and then he told me if I would go to all the families and ask them if they were go to school or not if they were going to send their children to school or not and I said okay and he gave me the piece of paper he wanted to S on the left if they're coming and on the right if they're not make sure you bring the completed sheet around to my house by Sunday afternoon and I only live you know a couple hundred yards down the down the road on North Avenue so I went home and my uncle was there I had the paper and I I was telling either him or my mother somebody and he just took the paper and tore it up and and that's about it I didn't I didn't do it so I told Mr Green my uncle tore the paper I can't I'm not going to I can't do that for you they won't let me do it you took yeah I I guess all parents you took over thought the same thing because as soon as this happened all our parents got together we had meetings in his house's house we had meetings there I remember going to the meetings I was just kid that was my dad that was his for for for for for for on the first day of school after Christmas Vacation some Mexican parents decided to send their children to school other parents convinced there would be trouble didn't send their children to school at all now boys and girls I want you to give me your attention now I'd like all the Mexican students to line up over here now the rest of you should go up to your classrooms now come along now move off you go come along that's the way no no no not you robberto Carlos you belong over here come along you girls come along off you go that's it come on you belong Over Here Come Along come along Move Along move along your books have already been sent over to the Olive Street School Miss Elliot and Miss Markland are over there now waiting for us come along move off to class we should be walking over there in a moment but for now I want you to stay here now what are you doing here you should be in class come on I'll I know that the kids that I hung around with this attracts we didn't want to go to the school cuz the school looked funny it was a big old barn and here the other regular school was sto and much nicer School even if it meant you know that we would all be together with our friends we still didn't like it we could we could tell the difference as the Mexican Community began their boycott the administration of president Herbert Hoover took the lead in blaming high unemployment on Mexican workers in early 1931 the Hoover administration instituted a national repatriation program for Mexicans over the next 8 years nearly half a million people of Mexican descent were sent back to Mexico including many who were American citizens this is stories that they were told when Mr ler was was trying to intimidate some of the families and and force the parents to send the kids to school and one of the stories that I heard was that she came to David's mother's house and flashed the badge and said you know that you had to do that is your mom home son just a minute see seor are you the mother of Norma Roberto and David ruiz see well your kids have been out of school for the past couple of weeks I can't let this treny continue she said you wouldn't let us into school then Mr Green stood at the door and would and let us in no ma'am that's not true kids are supposed to be attending the new school over there on Olive Street she says she's not sending us back to the barn that when you let us back in the regular school she'll be happy to send us now look ma'am my job is to make sure your kids are in school when they don't go to school I have to report them right now you're breaking the law she says you're the ones who broken the law by not allowing us into school now look Mrs Ruiz I know that you've been receiving public assistance from the county ever since your husband died if they knew you were breaking the law they'd stop your payments tell her she wants to know what you have to do with the county now look I have sworn to uphold the law and if you're going to continue to break the law then I'm going to have to report you to the county you know that'll mean the end of your payments she not impressed with your badge I can go further than reporting you to welfare I can go down to immigra they wouldn't think twice about deporting you I think you better go we'll see who'll have to go we'll see Mrs Ruiz we'll see what's what very shortly after that they were deported they picked up the whole family and and and I guess that he knows probably he see see well they they took advantage because we were supported by the government because my father had died and uh according to them it was for that reason that we were sent back and I had uh I was Roberto Enrique Jorge laa Lup five brothers that were born here you you spend half of your life your young kid life here in the States now they throw you back to a country that you haven't lived there very much then you don't know exactly which which country you have you have to belong to First his dad and a group went and made a formal complaint to the Mexican Council and asked for help and that's the way the whole thing got started my dad knew Fred noon I think from no Galis Arizona and when he came to San Diego why every time he needed him he'd go see see and Fred new would give him advice on what to doare cons for l GR cons God damn that Green Mighty go and warn the Mexicans well I told you we should have kept the tighter rain on him I never thought it would lead to something like this what's gotten into these Mexicans anyway I can't get over what's happened you are sure they filed legal papers in Superior Court there's no doubt about it I'm sorry I'm late I couldn't leave the school until just now let's get started the situation is getting out of control I think the Mexicans have talked with the Mexican counil he's denied it but I don't believe him they've gotten the Mexican Government involved now I never expected this how long is this going to drag on you know the Chamber of Commerce is in the middle of a major promotional campaign in the papers here we are trying to publicize the virtues of Lemon Grove and there are articles in the press on a school War how do you think that makes us look our daily attendance has dropped by more than 40% I hate to bring this up but every day they're out of school we're losing money from the state look to Rome if you hadn't have gone and warned the Mexicans this would never have happened it's your fault you know that's not true the Mexicans knew the school was being built they knew about the school but they didn't know it was being built just for them well I didn't think they would react so harshly if they knew about it beforehand you're new to Lemon Grove I think we know best how to handle things here there's a reporter from the San Diego son at the front door he says he wants to speak to a member of the school board that's all we need Andy you better talk to him oh God hi I'm Andy Anderson how can I help you are you on the lemon Grobe School Board yes I'm chairman I understand that the Mexican Community has filed suit against the school board yes they have and I can tell you that uh we're really surprised by all this we've appropriated money for a brand new school in their neighborhood we thought they'd be just delighted with the new school but they've all gone on strike well was this strike action as you're calling it instigated by the Mexican culate here in San Diego uh no I really can't say that all the Mexicans refused to go to the new school all but three their father told us somebody threatened to burn his house down because he sent his kids to the school now we've taken out $1,000 worth of insurance for him you know Lemon Grove seems so peaceful how could this happen here now uh that's a good question I think some troublemakers maybe from Los Angeles have gotten these Mexicans all fired up this isn't like our Mexicans here they wouldn't have done this on their own now we think they're following orders from someone else maybe even a foreign organization based Down In Mexico do you think going All Rise the superior court of San Diego county is now in session The Honorable Claude Chambers judge presiding be seated and come to order good morning Council ladies and gentlemen now this is the case of Roberto Alvarez versus The Lemon Grove School Board consisting of elel Owen Anna white and Andy Anderson individually and Jerome green principal are you ready Council you're honor Fred noon for Roberto Alvarez who is present in court thank you Mr noon your honor Philip Smith appearing for Gro School Board present in court thank you gentlemen you may proceed uh yes sir I call Roberto Alvarez raise your right hand do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do why do you think they chose you to be the person that would represent the community I don't know he was a good-looking guy he was one of the few guys had shoes he was a very intelligent boy uh he was very hard worker and he was very good in school he always got good grades good student Roberto where were you born Lisa California do you like school yes sir do you have any problems in school no not until this whole thing happened Fred noon he looked to me like just a regular guy a good lawyer and and and very firm and and very capable from what I can remember I remember part of the Court uh you know what happened in court and he was he's quite a cat he was a good guy Roberto have you been able to understand everything that's been said in English here today yes sir do you know Carla Smith yes sir is Carla Smith a student in Miss Katherine Elliott's classroom yes he is now that's a classroom for Mexican children who do not speak English yes sir does Carlos Smith speak English yes he does does he speak Spanish no he doesn't we always have to translate for him so Carlo Smith an English-speaking child who doesn't even speak Spanish is in the separate classroom for Spanish speakers yes sir thank you Roberto no further questions how old are you 12 and what grade are you in fifth grade by your own calculation Roberto haven't you failed to remain on a par scholastically with the other students your age objection that line of questioning is met only to confuse my client yes objection sustained Roberto let me simplify my question so that you can understand it he questioned me about why I didn't want to go to school and frankly I I said because my parents didn't want me to go that they didn't want me to go and I obey my parents I think I think that was one of the questions I asked Roberto where is your house located in relation to the Olive Street School right around the corner then the Olive Street School would be closer to your house than the present school yes sir do you think Miss Markin is a good teacher yes she's fine do you think you could learn from Miss mockin if she were to teach you at the Olive Street school I guess so no further questions what is your name Florine marklin be seated oh Mrs marklin no I remember Mrs marklin very bily on this stand because she was trying to she was a hostile witness they've started this new school so that the Mex Mexican students will not feel embarrassed about the superior abilities of their classmates you see in this way the Mexican children will not develop feelings of inferiority and you can say without a doubt that the Mexican students are behind in their studies absolutely I could go down the list of Mexican children in my class and tell you just how far behind each of them is uh Roberto Ruiz is a year behind Jesus Bania is 2 years Roberto Alvarez is a year Mary Cano is 2 years and Francis Romero is 2 years behind Miss Morin do you have any prejudices against the Mexican people no no I do not now I believe that this Americanization school was built with the interests of the Mexican children in mind they'll be taught the language the customs and the culture of this country you have to realize that most of these children come from homes where ignorance and poverty Prevail objection the witness is stating an opinion objection sustained Miss Marin would you simply describe what you have seen in the Mexican homes their homes have no books magazines or even newspapers the only time English is spoken is at school since health and sanitation are problems in their homes it's only natural that they have difficulties concentrating on school I feel that the Americanization school will improve improve their lives thank you Miss Markland no further questions you may cross-examine Mr noon thank you your honor how long have you been teaching school miss marklin one year only one year I see and uh what grades would you be teaching in this so-called Americanization school I would teach the fifth through the eth you would teach all four grades yes that's right and who would teach the other four grades Miss Katherine Elliot so the two of you you with only one year experience and Miss Elliott who I understand is almost ready to retire the two of you would each teach four grades Miss Elliott is a good teacher Mr noon I'm sure she is Miss marklin now if you will answer my question each of you would teach four grades yes and our attorney kept telling how can you take care one teacher and teach four grades you know uh uh four upper grades when Mr Green and would teach the eighth grade and here's a man with a PhD I don't remember whether he said PhD but uh uh you know a a well-qualified teacher to teach one grade how why how can you teach four grades better than they could at the other school and she kept saying because I can give them personal attention you know she wouldn't she wouldn't get off that track Miss Markland when there are white students behind in their grade level what do you do with them they're kept in a lower grade you don't segregate them we don't segregate anyone Mr noon simply answer the question miss marklin you don't segregate them no we do not what was the purpose of segregating the Mexican students from the other children as I've explained the idea was to give them more individual attention so miss marklin you're telling me that you segregate the Mexican students who are behind but not the white students isn't that right well isn't that right Miss Markland well I suppose if you put it that way yes no further questions thank you Mr noon Miss Markland you may step down you may call your next w witness Mr Smith thank you your honor call elel Owen Owens Owens was a truste TR Owens and Andy Anderson and there was another one I don't remember the other one but Owens had a couple of kids this is a just you know rumors and gossip that look like Mexicans they were dark complexed or or and and uh and somebody Mook them for this could be completely untrue but but nevertheless I heard it that this who are those Mexican boys are nice looking little boys and I mean that's what the Mexicans were talking about Mr Owen who ordered the separation of the Mexican children well the school board did and where did this idea come from well it was our idea Mr Owen I've had a chance to examine the minutes of the board meeting for July 23 1930 in those minutes there is reference to a letter which the PTA with the endorsement of the Chamber of Commerce presented to the school board do you recall that letter yes yes I do isn't it true that in that letter the PTA petitioned the school board to establish a separate Mexican school well yes who signed that letter but it was signed by the secretary of the PTA and who is the secretary of the PTA Clare Owen is Clare Owen any relation to you yes she is she's my wife oh I see so this is a family affair objection your honor I move that Mr noon's last comment be stricken from the record objection sustained no further questions you may step down Mr Owen that's all thank you Mr Smith you may call your next witness call Mr Anderson raise your right hand please do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do state your name Andy Anderson be seated Mr Anderson what is your occupation I own a gas station in Lemongrove and how long have you lived in lemong Grove eight years do you participate in the civic affairs of the community yes sir I am presently fire chief and uh chairman of the Lemon Grove School Board now Mr Anderson would you please tell the court why the school board decided to create a new Public School in lemong Grove well uh there's a safety issue involved here right now to get school the Mexicans have to cross Imperial Avenue and the railroad tracks and it's dangerous for them we've solved that problem but putting a new school right in their own neighborhood now Mr Anderson you were also concerned with overcrowding were you not yes sir we have had a real emergency situation here there's simply too many kids in that school why the toilets were backing up on us last month and Mr Anderson one final question once the Mexican students had learned English and had been Americanized what then would the school board do with those students why we'd bring them right back in the regular school fast you can say licky split thank you Mr Anderson no further questions Mr noon you may cross-examine thank you your honor Mr Anderson did the school board take any steps to find out how the Mexican parents felt about the separate school no sir Mr Anderson I understand that you're not particularly well liked in the Mexican community in fact isn't it true that they boycotted your gas station objection your honor this line of questioning is irrelevant your honor the purpose of my question is to establish the social atmosphere in Lon Grove so that we can better understand the motives of the school objection overruled you may answer the question Mr Anderson well these are hard times your honor business goes up and down uh but as far as I know there's never been any boycott Against Me by the Mexicans and you're not aware of any animosity against you in the Mexican community no well not really boycott but a lot of people wouldn't go because they they knew that him what what he was one of the instigator yeah because we we just he we knew the way he treated the Mexican people he didn't like Mexican people Mr Anderson you testified that one of the reasons the school board created the new school on the west side of town was that it would be closer to the homes of the Mexican children therefore they wouldn't have to cross to the east side of town to get to school and you said this would be safer for them isn't that correct yes but isn't it true that some of the Mexican children live on the same side of the street as the regular public school so they'll still be Crossing that dangerous Boulevard to go to the new Olive Street School well yes I guess that's true and isn't it also true that some white children live on the west side of town closer to the Olive Street School well there may be a few so right now some white children are risking their lives every day Crossing that dangerous Boulevard to get to school yes sir Mr Anderson you testified that once the pupils of Mexican parentage were Americanized they'd be admitted back into the regular school are you aware of the fact that 95% of these students were born here in America well I wouldn't know the exact figures in fact many of the students that you proposed to segregate in the Olive Street school already speak English isn't that correct I really don't know the answer to that Mr noon Mr Anderson are you telling the court that you're prepared to send students to this Americanization school without even knowing whether or not they speak English Mr Anderson please answer the question yes sir no further questions all right be seated and come to order good afternoon Council ladies and gentlemen I am ready with my ruling well Council I understand that a few children can be separated if they require special instruction in order to improve their education but to separate as a group all pupils of Mexican parentage that can only be done by infringing on the laws of the State of California these Mexican students are of the Caucasian race therefore they are excluded from those state laws which allow the segregation of negro Oriental and Indian children now I don't blame the Mexican children for their segregation just because a few of them happen to be behind in their schoolwork on the contrary that's an argument in their favor I believe that this separation denies the Mexican Children of the daily presence of American children which itself is so necessary for their learning of English and I find therefore that the lemon Grove School Board is without the power to establish and maintain a separate School solely for pupils of Mexican heritage such an action violates the rights of these students the school board is therefore ordered to immediately admit the petitioner Roberto Alvarez and all 74 Mexican students back into the regular school building where they are to receive instruction on an equal basis with all other students that's all Council thank you all right court is now a Jour well we felt good but we didn't uh we didn't uh you know throw our weight around anything like that because we had one but we just you know just felt good they told us you know don't start yelling don't start being a big shot just go back to school and go to class and do the best you can I know they were happy yeah know they were happy because their children you know were just as much right here as anybody else children and made them feel good too that we were really that dumb like they said we were you know but I think that that in general the American uh Community they didn't mind the decision in the least I think I think they might have some of them might even welcomed it but I think there was a few die hards that they you know they couldn't they you know like Owens and they happened to be on the board school board and then Andy Anderson chabil they were at the if there was a chamber of commerce of any kind I'm sure they were all leaders in it and uh I think they were the ones that were really responsible trying to kick us out or trying to segregate us they've denied our request that the court pay our attorney's fees and ordered us to pay for their attorney as well Jesus Christ we've got to pay for their attorney pce too I can't believe he ruled in favor of the Mexicans why can't we appeal the case you know Claude Chambers has a reputation for being a liberal judge if we take this case to a higher Court we can win I'm sorry CLA the Chamber of Commerce will oppose any further legal action I think the publicity has already damaged lemong gr's reputation enough Andy I think we got to live with this decision the sooner we accept this verdict the better there's no saying Claire that we would even win at a higher court level well I just want you to know I have already been approached by several parents in the PTA who are terribly upset about the judge's ruling and they told me if we let those greasers come back they'll take their children out of school look Claire our hands are tied we spent money for the new school school we spent money to go to court and now we have to spend money to pay for all the attorney fees we can't afford to continue this I have to agree with Bill let's get on with business we have to approve our teachers contracts for next year now we've all had a chance to review the files on each of the candidates as I call their names please signify by by saying I or N Mrs Balby I messy Elliot I Mrs Adams I I Katherine Elliot Florine Markland I Jerome green nay one of the important things I mean Looking Back Now That I'm Older is that that here's a group of people that that are fresh out of Mexico and and a lot of them out of Baja California you know and uh and uh and uh and they they had kids that were were born here that were American citizens natural born and that they were that uh that they were not just uh wet backs running around here loose that they were that they were you know uh Stern sturdy people uh with education that had schooling and they had the guts and in a strange country to get together and say this is wrong and they fought it and won I think that's important major funding for the lemong Grove incident was provided by The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the California Council for the Humanities a state program of the National Endowment for the Humanities additional funding was provided by the Helen and debmar Walter Comm fund and this station and other public television stations Nationwide