it goes in the order of deal then debt then equity every single time you stack the relationships and again you can do that over a game of pickle ball i make 10 calls a week and I try to get one coffee meeting every weekend which means I will meet 52 owners in the time everyone else is saying oh no one's going to pick up the phone a billionaire told me once the trick to real estate [Music] is what it is brad Lee back again with another episode of dropping bombs today in the studio folks i got a real treat for you christian Ozgood in the house what's going down here we go Brad good to be here you ready to drop some bombs dude i'm always ready to drop some bombs folks this dude had nothing not even very long ago how long ago gosh four years ago four years ago now you got,000 bucks now you got 300 and some doors yeah 300 300 maybe 325 i got to recount them again but over 300 doors yeah that's why I want to talk to you cuz like there's a lot of people out there that keep hearing about this real estate you think it's too late to get into real estate you think the the the the wave has passed no no not at all especially next few years there's a lot of people are going to get wiped out i think in the last next few years you have a lot of debt maturing interest rates are still a lot higher than they were i think there's still a lot of opportunity coming up here in the next few years yeah you know my uncle owned real estate way back in the day i remember being a kid and he owned an apartment complex and I was like you know it wasn't a very nice one or big one but he owned it and I was like you know why would you own that yeah little did I know dude I should have been starting back then now was it always good and is it always going to be good because a lot of people think well now the waves passed only because it got real popular in the last maybe what 5 10 years so everyone's like "Yeah everybody's in that now." There's no deals to be had what would you say to them dude there's deals everywhere maybe in some of your major metros it's just too competitive people buy properties just to own them park money but I I mean you go an hour out of any major city there's tons of opportunity out there and what I want to do today is let the listeners start from nothing all right okay let's do it if they already know what they're doing they can just wait until we catch up okay but I want to talk to all the people in the freaking audience that are not doing real estate because I think obviously real estate is a hell of an investment i think you got to invest in order to get wealthy mhm you first have to have a little bit of money in order to invest or can you start with nothing you can absolutely start with nothing now you said I started with nothing and then I said you had nothing and you said "Well 10,000." $10,000 dude there's a lot of people without 10 G's in their pocket that's true if you're going to buy an apartment complex say it cost $2 million 10 $10,000 doesn't do anything yeah and and not only that I mean you can you can bust your ass for a couple summers and save 10 grand yeah i want you sure the hell aren't spending your last 10 grand to buy a building because then you go bankrupt before you actually get a get the thing rolling and cash flowing so when you started with nothing all you had was 10,000 yeah I had about 10,000 in a bank account i had uh I was credit was excellent i did have excellent credit though I never used it for my first 22 deals okay so what if someone's listening with with 10 grand but they got shitty credit same same exact game would not have affected any deal that I did whatsoever i had zero credit checks no one asked no one cares really and the fact that you didn't have previous deals under your belt didn't matter nope you didn't leverage someone else's track record nope not Not that it doesn't get easier when you get a track record but everyone starts from somewhere you have It's kind of like getting a first job like sure you have to grind a little bit to do it but once you have the experience you have the experience you can absolutely get in just by learning doing a deal learn as you go how old are you i'm 33 you look younger yes success so so that's why I want to start from zero because there's people out there listening they're like you know I I want to I've been thinking about it but you know I can't do it for this reason or that reason and I want people to invest real estate's a great vehicle so let's start at zero perfect so I have nothing okay i can borrow 10 grand from my grandma okay but that won't help that won't no well you started with 10 grand yeah that's sure you're going to I didn't use it though to buy into the real estate and that was just what I had to live on i didn't have any money in the bank account oh okay okay so I got nothing so you got nothing you got no access to any money you don't want to borrow borrow from your family which I recommend against yeah so so I literally am listening to this podcast you got zero dollars and I'm just a regular Joe all right working a 9 to5 barely staying alive so here's where most people get lost they start with the money they go I don't have the money so I can't buy the real estate or whatever did this work for business or anything else too i don't I I'm that guy like dude there was been many of times I should have got into real estate but I thought dude I don't I mean I had money but it wasn't disposable so I'm like well I'll wait till I get some disposable and then I always have this I can't because of this so that's why I want to start from zero so that's a lot of people what you just said so what should they do people think that the money enables you to do the deal it goes in the order of deal then debt then equity every single time equity is the money you bring to the table to close the deal it could be borrowed it could be with a partner it doesn't matter but it goes in that order you have an opportunity that is going to make money out of that opportunity it's like people go in it without anything to sell and they're like "Well I need to raise the capital first." It's like "Raise the capital for what you don't have a deal." It's like going to market with no product being like "One day I will have a product and I want you to invest now." That that would be hard to do okay so finding the deal yeah finding a deal google Maps free online you can drive any market in the country really easy to find anyone's contact information that's free as well how do you how is it so easy so you go public record like GIS data or partial viewer maps you basically find a property if you're looking for multif family specifically you look for big roofs in residential areas and because zoning codes there'll probably be a lot of other apartments right next door you simply find the building plug that address into whatever your county's data source is and it will show you who owns it if it's an LLC there's other free searches you can figure out who filed the LLC you reach out and you map the people who've already done the thing that you want to do that's step one to anything you want to do find the people who've already done it so Iorked with a whole bunch of owners in the markets I wanted to buy in and I let them know i don't have a portfolio yet you do my wife had just broke her back in being a elementary school teacher she got pushed down the playground so I was like I have a specific goal trying to retire my spouse i'm realizing one duplex at a time is not going to do this i need to buy bigger you've already figured this out can I take you out to coffee and figure out what the heck you did those are most of the people who ended up funding my deals they sourced most my deals i didn't ask anyone to sell a property to me for my first three years of buying not one person it was always their idea i communicated what I'm trying to do i learned from them they'd call me a few months later hey deal's too small for me it's not right you said you don't have any money i have an idea on how you take this out they built the business for me because they've already built the business yeah so walk me through that i gota I got to go like I drive home and I see apartment buildings on the way home should I be looking at [ __ ] holes or should I be looking at a class class A i found that I want to network with the people who are winning the game now class A some people will overpay for properties to have a sexy property there's such a thing as a trophy property that you can overpay for i also don't want to buy [ __ ] holes i like B+ if you have a C property that you can push to a B I like I like fun projects what I don't want to do is buy a shitty property in the middle i don't want to be a slum that's not interesting to me at all like you want a decent apartment there's a lot of businesses that you can do don't do a shitty business like don't be a slumbler there's no reason but if it's such a great asset why are the people that own it willing to sell it uh first significantly sized deal I did 38 units Central Washington they were in their 80s they've been trying to sell this thing for 12 years at the same price it had a bad roof this one was one that was beat up it had a bad roof they were struggling with collections they were too old to run their property and because the financials on the property didn't look great a bank wouldn't lend so your buyers for that everyone who's rich enough to just write the $2 million check and buy it in cash isn't interested in that hard of a project they already have the money they don't need to do that your mom and pop owners who own you know a single family house or maybe a forplex somewhere they're not going to take out a 38 unit building so your buyer pool is like nothing the banks won't lend on it the only way you would knock out a building like that would be seller finance so all we did is I came together we'd ask the sellers "What do you need?" And they're like "We just want to retire on $10,000 a month and our building's not doing that for us." The simplest answer is always the right answer if you're starting with no money that's just your side of the equation so I need cash flow i don't have money their side is we want $10,000 and we want a $2 million price so whatever the simplest answer for me to cash flow and increase my income and give them what they want that's the answer in this case I needed 6 months of no payments after we closed to fix the collection problem so that we can afford to pay them $10,000 a month that was the solution no one had freaking asked the sellers what they actually need you map it what's the easiest way to get there creative finance which is how I did pretty much everything for my first 22 deals it's what is the least creative answer to get from A to B and the answer was "No if I don't have any payments to compete with I can pay you guys $10,000 a month i need six months of time i'm trying to sell it for 12." I was in high school when they listed this thing and they said "Okay." And they said "Okay." They also didn't believe we'd close it because no one else closed it everyone drops out of contract we went all the way through we closed it bought it for $2 million it appraised for 4.2 couple years later we fixed the collection problem hold on though it appraised for 4.2 a couple years later yeah we got the income up fun thing with apartments so what was it what was it worth when you bought it oh god you would argue that we overpaid for it because it was just not performing it was It was a shitty property that particular one was a bad property what made it shitty they had a uh chickens running everywhere i had had a chicken problem which is a very unique problem to have for an apartment building we had two different tenants who were raising chickens in their units it had one failed roof bad septic system and they had just solved a major homeless problem on the property there's a developer that bought the adjacent property they resolved that for us which was fortunate but it had a lot of problems they were all problems that you could fix if you're someone without money and want to put in the work and I knew on that building there's at least a million dollar of upside to to get that thing worth $100,000 per unit in that location absolutely feasible you just have to be willing to to wade through the [ __ ] to get there now the next deal I did was six units they were turnkey they were beautiful they were 10% down seller financed at 4% interest that was someone who was just trying to get out of a partnership that they didn't want to be in like I would love to sell these to you it's a guy I already met with so it's not just beat up properties it's not just class A properties but it's looking at again it's deal debt equity what is the deal in front of me am I interested in the project do I believe it will make money what debt products are available it's not always seller financing but what debt product can I use right there you have your opportunity and you have 75 to 100% of your money then you just have to find the last 25% and on a deal like that 38lex if you have a million dollars to make I guarantee you'll find the 300 down even if you don't have it how'd you find it i called a broker who I who worked in an adjacent office to me who had clients who specialize in small multif family so residential 2 three four units i just asked him "Do you have any clients who would like to buy bigger who don't have a deal?" He gave me four names we called four people three of them put in $100,000 i'd never raised capital before i had never met any of the people that I called we raised 100% of the money in one day just gave him a call like "Hey this is a cool project." And I pitched it on how sucky the project i was like "This thing is beat up and when we fix it this is what it's going to be worth." I just went through all of the problems i'm like "This is why we're buying it we have all these problems and we have a plan to fix them and when we're done here's our projected return i love this deal." So that sounds too easy it it that's what I thought too i still could not believe when they handed me the keys to that thing i was like that was it all I needed to do was ask someone what they wanted and then come up with a path to give it to them without sacrificing cash flow so I kept that as my rule i'm like every time I buy a deal it needs to pay me forever my income needs to go up every single time that's the only thing on my side of the equation long-term cash flowing fixed rate debt i don't want any variables i just want to know these are my cost here's what I'm buying it pays me from the get-go now let's start improving it running it even better and you give that a couple years of seasoning being a better manager than the last person your building's worth more how long does it take to get the property in shape on that size building i usually allocate for 24 months especially if you have multiple yeah but that's a long ass time yeah it can be a long ass time you're doing five or 60s at a time though and they're each making a million bucks i mean it doesn't it doesn't suck but you go through I usually get through most projects our target is to get done in 90 days which is typically what happens if you have a large amount of rent bump though you're going to have multiple phases so it will take somewhere generally speaking 3 months to two years depending on the size of the project and what you have to do to execute so if someone's listening to this right now in any town in the United States and they want to go out and buy a deal in the next 90 days how many how many deals do you think they have to look at before someone's willing to do creative financing see that's the thing people go after the creative financing which is basically like putting a sticker on your head that says "Hi I'm broke and I don't know what I'm doing." Like if you came to me and you were like "Hey I I'm looking to buy a piece of real estate and I want to do it seller financed." If you start with a debt product you sound insane so I found you look I look at a few listed deals and I look for who owns the properties and you meet with them you can do this in 30 days in any market in the country and we've done this and I've have students who have done this too i had a a 19-year-old he's bought over a hundred units in one town because he just spent one month meeting everyone in one town if you do this and you map it out I do two phone calls a day brief hey it's Christian this is what I'm trying to do you've done something I haven't done how'd you get there get some momentum in the conversation close them on getting a meeting you meet with them for coffee you're now you move from an outsider to an insider that takes 30 days in night market i bought big cities small studies uh red states blue states own in Seattle Houston i own in a little town called Stevenville Texas which is one of my favorite places to invest in the whole country but it works everywhere you can do this absolutely anywhere in the country all right so for all the dumb people listening break it down to where it's just plain as day you find It's Saturday morning it's 8:00 a.m get your ass up and go do what get your ass up and find two freaking people that you can call i don't even care if they find a property and find who owns it so do you have to get in your car drive around and say "Okay there's one." No cuz like when I drive home I see I see a couple of apartments and I always tell my wife like "I want to own those." And they're not like top of the line but they're not shitty either and they got great landscaping and they look pretty decent and I'm like "I want to own those." Yeah and and she always says "Well then buy them." And I'm like "I wonder how much they cost." And then I just keep driving i don't do [ __ ] but I'm going to be your I'm going to be your guinea pig i'm going to get up on Saturday i'm going to follow your steps what do I do if I'm looking at a market I'm going to go Vegas drive on Google because that's going to save you a bunch of time you just find the property that you're interested in so so get get on Google yeah let's say I'm looking for uh 10 to 25 unit apartment building okay i'm going to go find those buildings i'm going to go into the county data which is going to be a parcel map search type in parcel map and the word whatever county you're saying parcel map parcel yeah and so you actually click on the property parcel number now you're getting somewhere son see I kept you kept saying get their names like [ __ ] how so you go into Google and you type in parcel maps GIS data yeah exactly clark County yeah and then and then what comes up when you type that in a Google map that now has the parcels on it and so you can click in on a property and say "Hey this is that property I just looked at." Gotcha you'll come in it will show you acorage partial number who owns it if it's an LLC you take apart the LLC and you can do this with anyone it's super easy to get in with are they usually LLC's uh I would say on apartments if you're in the midsize apartments more often than not but a lot of people own them their own name I'd say what's midsize midsize is going to be five to we'll call it 5 to 75 units what's big big is 100 plus okay so I'm looking for And what's the average cost per door it's going to wildly depend on what market you're in let's say Vegas las Vegas see I haven't looked at over here in a while vegas is an interesting interesting market see I say that to Grant and I say that to everybody that knows real estate and they're always like "I don't want to buy there." And it's like "Dude I don't want to buy something in Twin Peaks Idaho where I'm never going to be." Yeah like I want to drive and see it and feel it yeah vegas is an interesting one though this is one of those towns where people will overpay for real estate on the financials because it's cool to own a property in Vegas they they're betting on the market long term you have a city that is very very businessfriendly if you look specifically in Vegas at multif family all the buildings are highly levered for the most part they trade often and they trade to big groups so you're playing against a lot of institutional people in Vegas it is hard it's not that it's impossible but Vegas is one of the harder markets to find a really good deal because other people will just overpay who have money have you ever bought deals that you've never seen no no i would not fly out no matter what yeah well that's another reason not to buy small deals it has to be worth the trip if you're going to buy out of area most of my portfolio is about an hour and a half drive from where I live but now that I live in Texas I have a Washington state portfolio and I have a Texas portfolio i'm still flying up to Washington if we close a deal in Washington i'm up there at the property walking through i want to know what's going on i've had so many people who just look at spreadsheets and they're like "Oh this is a good deal." And then they get a contractor in there and they fall through the top floor into the bottom floor because the building's a wreck espec if you're raising capital how how pissed would you be if someone's like "Oh I never went to the building uh bad news Brad we made a bad investment." Like yeah that would freaking suck yeah there's some shock outlines in in the building yeah exactly okay so [ __ ] i I What am I looking for you're looking for any market within What I like to do is like okay what if it's a town you want to like visit like a lake yeah so the number one thing that you're looking for what is our actual product it's housing for humans if you distill it all the way down that's what we're after housing for humans is population freaking going up there that's the number one thing that matters to me is demand actually increasing i don't want to anywhere yeah a Nashville i'm outside of the DFW area population's going up like crazy it's an excellent place how is there any source that'll tell me what the populations are doing worldpopulationreview.com i I just like it because they're opening slide as a graph of population growth if it's trending like this I'm like good this is probably going to be a nice place to live number two I actually go to that area and I'm like if I was in my tenant situation could I imagine living here there are some towns where they look good on paper this this goes back to like seeing your properties they look good on paper the deal looks good you drive there and you're like dude I can't imagine any situation where I'd want to stay here i don't want to rent places where people don't want to live cuz that's that's my demand so I go to cool places that are awesome stevenville Texas has a little college there called Tarlton happens to be the fastest growing college in the US right now part of the&m system it's just absolutely going off it's 200 years of dairy industry there so it has a background of a lot of culture you have these awesome buildings it's this really wellestablished little town but there's only like 40,000 people there it's not that big of a city there's five or six other players buying most of the multif family it's not that hard in some of those markets to come in like I love the city i love what's driving it i believe in the city population is backing what I'm saying let's go buy it up and it doesn't take very long to become an insider there that's one of the things you'll struggle with in Vegas and granted I bought in Seattle it's the same thing as Vegas you can do it but it's hard to become the guy of a big area like you'd have to take a ton of money to take out a sizable chunk of Vegas so I'm looking for little towns in a population of what i like to see population over 30,000 and up to maybe 150,000 now you can still buy in a decently sized town and a good deal is a good deal i mean if there's an amazing deal next to me in Dallas I'm not going to say no but I found you stack the deck in your favor if you're looking in areas where not everyone is trying to plum it like just plunge money into and big cities people will overpay to be in big cities that's just end of the day that's what happens institutions want that okay so if I'm a beginner though I I should be looking in in populations of 30 to 150,000 i think that'd be a great start so get on Google boom check it out eventually I have to fly within driving distance of yourself that's you're looking for competitive advantage so geography is an advantage but if it if you're not getting traction there choose one or two other markets don't look everywhere just pick a couple places you're like I'm going to plant here i'm going to find a property it does not take that long it's just not that hard yeah but for me specifically I can afford to get anywhere I want so like I I it doesn't matter to me i just I'm just looking for 30 to 100 like I said I'm going to be your guinea pig dude cuz I need to buy some [ __ ] quick like I should have bought some [ __ ] quick last year and the year before and every time I write a check to the IRS I think [ __ ] I should have bought some property it does help and I'm doing it again this last year so I'm going to make sure 2024 is the last year that I write big [ __ ] tax checks to the IRS like if I just buy property Yeah my I can I I can save a [ __ ] ton on taxes and get the property and get the cash flow and get into the game see you're in a unique position well not unique but you're in a different side of the equation right you're not starting with zero you have your you've built your business businesses businesses you have the capital where there's other people who are great deal finders like you can you can invest in other people like you should know what you're investing every time I say every time I say on the podcast or anywhere else hey I'm looking for deals I get hit up with all these deals but like they're not that good what does not good look like well to in in my mind they wanted you know $16 million down like dude I'm not looking to invest $16 million in a [ __ ] apartment for my first one i want to buy the [ __ ] you're talking about i want a little $2 to5 million deal that's that's going to throw off enough cash flow to make it worth my while and and again I mean I don't mind putting a little money down but like I like the seller financing option why because then I don't have to worry about if anything goes wrong because the sellers just get their property back don't they isn't that the deal generally speaking yeah like I don't have to There's exceptions to that but generally that's the the concept well I know that Grant taught me always do non-reourse i I like non-reourse there's some there's some tax advantages actually i won't get super into it cuz it's boring but there's some tax advantages to doing recourse debt but generally speaking non-reourse the property is the collateral for the property it's clean simple easy and then you you're the rest of your [ __ ] can't get crash and if you have a lot of [ __ ] you don't want to do that right and I don't want to risk anything because dude I'm green like I don't know as much about multif family as I probably should but I want to learn and people say "Well just give me the money i'm good at it." is like you know I don't want to give you the money i want to do it and you know 3 to 5 years I want to own a,000 doors and by the time I die I'd like to own like 10,000 doors to to leave to the children yeah one what people tend to do a lot of people structure these as syndications where they're you know they're sourcing a lot of money from a lot of investors they're putting together this you know they're getting paid on the front end to buy it they're just raising capital from everyone i've structured every deal I've done as a joint venture so it's me and like two other partners last deal I closed 44 units it's class I'd call it B+ A minus has a clubhouse pool two-bedroom units beautiful courtyard paved park you know the stuff that you would expect really cool property we bought it for a million8 that's it steamville yeah it was like $600,000 no it was less than that maybe put 400 total to close it i have to go look at my numbers again i should know this off see I could own that myself I could own 10 of those myself that's what I want to do but I also don't want to get [ __ ] like oh dude you didn't understand you should have caught a You should have called a freaking surveyor to come in and do a economic you know and all of a sudden I'm sitting on something that's not worth anything or there's no equity yeah in your position though where time is the premium like if you go learn a whole another real estate business that's taxing on your time is already making money i would take a small team of people have someone who is an operator and be like "Hey this is the person I'm going to invest with." And if you want to own the real estate yourself put out a buyout option you can just put it in your operating agreement and just attach hey for this price fixed price fixed timeline I have the right to buy you out based on our projections you're happy i'm happy but I would work with an operator if you're trying to scale to 10,000 units put together a small team be an actual partner not a limited partner like be on the team but have someone who knows what they're doing so you limit your stupid tax because the stupid tax sucks if you do that one property we're like I didn't know this was a thing on the survey or oh we checked this one box on the purchase and sale agreement now I'm [ __ ] like you want in my opinion if you're trying to scale fast use another like find someone who needs partner with an operator but actually partner with them if you're just a limited partner throwing money at a deal you don't you not involved well how about you i mean you find a deal let me throw some money in it and and and like me and you can own it you've already paid your stupid tax i I've paid a lot of stupid tax what What was the biggest stupid tax you've paid biggest stupid tax I paid we So I identified myself early incorrectly is like I'm a creative finance real estate guy like this is what I do i can I can put together these deals it's amazing i'm not i'm a value ad multif family like I rock at solid nice entry-level housing i don't like luxury housing i will never be a slumbler we do a great job on our buildings but I'm really good at servicing like hey this is what this population needs i'm going to invest in that asset class we're going to provide housing we bought a resort seller financed for $4.5 million and I borrowed like a million50 to close it no what I think it will cost me a million150 i have no one on that team who knows how to run a resort it's a small enough resort where I bought myself a really crappy job you lose all your profitability if you hire out a management team for it i was like "Oh shoot i have this one awesome beautiful seller financed asset and it sucks it was super expensive and at some point I won't be able to refinance it to like I do all of my multif family to pay back or eliminate my investor so I was oh I had to take my the first million150 I earned post tax in cash first million kind of sucks to get to for most people that's the hard one i had to immediately write it away to someone else which like that that was brutal so my stupid tax was right out of the gates hey I'm a new entrepreneur end of year one stupid tax million150,000 like oh that's a that's expensive we started with 10,000 the year before that's not a fun one what could you have done to avoid that stupid tax what I could have done is work with literally anyone who is in hospitality the same way I built multif family i met the people who've done the thing I want to do and I took their advice and I took their you know each of their say they've been doing real estate for 50 years i was able to condense 50 years of knowledge into two years of work because they've already done it for me on the hotel i just had the arrogance of think like oh we're good at this we already know what we're doing it's seller finance i did the financials i don't know anything about running a resort at all and no one on my team did so what what ended up happened the other two partners just lost interest in the deal they went back to doing what they were doing and now it's like oh well we're either going to lose everyone's money which is unacceptable or someone has to figure out how to run a profitable resort you're a [ __ ] of a project where you're trying to build your other businesses that you actually want to be in so that was this expensive stupid tax how long does it take to store up some dough if you start with nothing if you start with nothing it takes a second because you're going to take your first few years you're going to reinvest everything you have back into the property biggest mistake I see new investors make like the number one thing they raise enough money to close the property they're like "Hey we'll fix it up or repair it out of cash flow you take a 90-day project and it becomes a three-year thing that it's like if you're trying to clean your house and you do it one room per day your whole house is just always messy there's that one stove blows your budget for your renovations you have to replace that then next month wait for the money to regenerate it's a terrible way to do properties you come in you buy cash flowing real estate you raise enough if you need renovations to finish your entire project rip it out move forward so if I need a million down and I need a million to Renault I should raise 2 mill yeah get to your $2 million probably put a little buffer on top of that to make sure and if the deal doesn't work with that big of a raise you know you don't have a deal that's people make try to force the deal to work by raising less it's like finish the freaking project it takes so much time and it how how do you know how do you know uh how much rent you can bump because of these renovations so but that the easiest way it's back to meeting all those owners i talk to the other people in the market i know what people are renting for i know who their property managers are it takes all of two hours to pick up the phone and call a couple people get in touch with the property managers hey I'm looking looking at acquiring this building my analysis tells me rent's probably going to be around here if you were leasing this up how would you do it interview a couple people and they're and they happily give you the information could I've never had any resistance to that could you just pretend you're going to rent an apartment right next door to the place and call them and be like "Hey how much you how much is rent?" They're like "400 for you know such and such." Yeah and then you if you're smart would you think "Okay I'm going to make mine 1300." or or do you go does that is that matter so I will look at it i I'll run a few different types of market analysis the first one I look at and there's a bunch of free trial sites you can do like a rentoter there's there's a lot of ways to check market data for something like a rentoter actual rent checking site it it's all historic data so you have to take that in mind if rents are going up and you're looking at historic then it's probably going to be a little low i'll look at an apartments.com or anywhere where they're listing apartments and that's not historic data that's asking and so I'll say okay what are people marketing for what have people placed leases at it's usually somewhere between those two so I get a pretty good range of what are people actually doing and marketing for in my market then I'll back that up by just asking the people who are actively doing it what are you seeing for rent i'm thinking it's going to be here to hear am I out of my mind is this a bad idea i had a property in Steamville Texas rents were 550 per door my analysis told me we can get them to $850 easily i interviewed two property managers they disagreed with me i interviewed two owners they both said "Hell yeah you can get that." I like "Okay I'm going to go with it." We have them all rented at 950 now we almost doubled the income on that property i've owned it for 13 months bought it for a million six it's worth about 2.8 today uh it was just a deal where we got a great price because the income was low got to where it financed with the bank they said "Here's the income here's what we can lend." Brought that back to the seller raised the capital for the down that cost me exactly zero dollars out of pocket and away we go how'd you raise the capital for the down i I called someone who I met at pickle ball and she was like "Hey my businesses are doing well." Like awesome you want to toss 400 at this deal he's like "Oh hell yeah." See it makes it sound so easy it is it's not that it's easy it's simple real estate has been around for a while may have noticed you know one of the oldest businesses of all time people don't do own properties there's no secrets in real estate like the the creative stuff sure there's stuff to learn and there's a lot of lessons or a lot of stuff you don't want to do but it's all very simple so as you play the game you have three resources i look at it kind of like a board game you got cash flow liquidity and equity equity multiplies over time you lose it if you don't keep enough cash flow and liquidity cash flow funds your properties and eventually funds your entire lifestyle you have to keep all three in balance if you want to be rich in real estate that's the the end all it's like Settlers of Katon but way less resources it's an easy board game what's the difference between equity and liquidity liquidity is cash on hand so that that gets me through hey unexpected roof failure waiting for insurance to come i I need to not get wiped out you need to build the liquidity if you start with none of them you start with none of them the beautiful thing about business and real estate you can borrow anyone else's pieces there's lots of other owners who haven't played in the game for a long time they do have all those pieces you stack the relationships and again you can do that over a game of pickle ball it's not It's not rocket science say words to people get around other humans don't be a weirdo or even if you are I I'd argue I'm probably kind of a weirdo so So I'm going to go back i'm going to go back because I know that there you know I I went down the road and then I keep veering you down other roads so I want to start again so So I'm I'm new i'm listening to this i've been wanting to do it [ __ ] it this is this guy did it i can do it so I'm going to get up on Saturday i'm going to Google uh uh part what was it partial map or GIS data that partial map or GIS data i'm going to start looking around bang bang bang bang bang i find the owner i call the owner and and does it is it do I say do you want to sell your property no I wouldn't you can go two options you can go for a relationship or you go for a transaction relationship i go relationship i have friends who make Yeah but if you called me and you're like "Well I'm going for coffee." I'd be like "Who the [ __ ] are you?" Oh oh no i wouldn't open with that what would you say so okay so if you own the building yeah I'm own I own the building i would reach out with something legitimate that is a relatable point that is not "Hey I'm trying to buy your shit." cuz I'm not i actually want the relationship i would call when I got started i had bought a couple of duplexes before I bought a bigger building i had these two little units my wife breaks her back as a kindergarten teacher i am now trying to retire her so I have a I have a mission my phone call was "Hey reaching out about your property here i just drove past it it's 20 units i'm actually your property neighbor i own a tiny tiny little building down the street let them respond." Which is usually like "Okay so why the heck are you calling me?" Like I want to get to know the people who've actually built this business right i'm trying to retire my wife and I've learned that buying one duplex at a time out of saved income sucks like I cannot scale fast enough i worked for eight years i barely bought any real estate i have no money left in my account i have $10,000 left in there a little pitily amount of cash flow this didn't get me the freedom that was advertised buying one rental at a time i just want to talk to one person who has done the thing I want to do and you were kind enough to pick up the phone for me what does it look like to get to 20 units half the time they'll say "I'm not selling." It's like "Awesome i don't have any money i just spent less just bought the duplex i'm out of money." That's not that's not an issue i've found about se I mean it's a made up statistic but it feels like about 75% of people when you get to that point it is a relatable thing most people in real estate are like "Okay you're starting your business you've done a little bit of something you have a clear goal people in real estate like to talk about real estate but what if I mean again to me it's like you know if I'm just doing that to secretly want to buy their business or were you genuinely I genuinely want to know how they built their business see I think you might have just got lucky see I would think that except I did it in central Washington and then I did it in Western Washington and Mason County and then same same way same way and now you're teaching all these students how to do the same thing and and they're work and they're doing it my buddy Caleb moved into a market he He was the 19-year-old he started he So he had like 300 bucks he did I don't recommend this by the way but he did his earnest money for his deal on a credit card like he had no money he's like I'm just going all in i'm just going to go we'll lever up let's get it done he closed four deals in his first year got to like 28 29 rentals scaled to over a hundred the next year he met every single owner of note in the town he's investing he lived in San Diego he's buying in Texas we had in the last month or like this month since the first uh we had one of our best weeks ever my group we had six people buy their first apartment complex a lot of them are small like six to 15 units we had three the next week three next week we're off to a really good start this good month for I'm not going I don't want to say like everyone just always buys a billion deals all the time but a lot of people are buying all over the country and we've seen it this month New York Florida Oklahoma Texas California which isn't all that common because California is hard to play in um and we've seen two in Washington both coast middle of America it works everywhere it's just not that complicated there are a lot of people who have these small to midsize properties it's just like buying a business there a billion podcasts on people seller financing their businesses you know boomers are getting out of the market it's the same thing you have a bunch of people who are in the 70s 80s they have mass huge portfolios of mid-size properties a lot of them are just like "Hey I'm looking for an exit plan." Okay so I call the guy and I say "Hey Willie." Yeah uh you know I've been wanting to get into real estate and I really don't know how you can we grab a coffee and let me pick your brain or something i would space that out a bit i wouldn't just go for the kill it's like that would be be an awkward first date right and you usually start some conversation but I would have some relatable point there for me it was retiring my wife it could it's whatever it is for you everyone should map out their story i did this on a whiteboard i just took all the things I've done like soccer college first job worked in advertising this is what you're teaching your students to do yeah you map it all out so you have a relatable point and you'll figure out what really flows for you that that was true for me in the beginning is and it just has to be true i have a duplex i would like to be larger and the reason I'm trying to get larger is I actually have a legitimate like I am trying to retire a spouse from a job that sucks she just got done teaching kindergarten during co but how can I say that cuz I already have money and so I'd be lying yeah so in your case hey I've built a bunch of businesses i've been really successful across multiple industries i haven't cracked real estate yet what if they're like "Dude you're Brad Lee i follow your ass." I was like "Oh awesome." So really so really what you're saying is you know reach out build a relationship have a conversation don't it but I thought I was trying to buy their [ __ ] i have found most the time they refer me to someone else's [ __ ] that I buy so I want relationships i want the resources that they've already acquired and I actually do want to learn from them my lenders my property managers my team a lot of my employees they all came from people who built the business i want to build yeah so really what you're saying is what I preach all the time it's just took me a while to understand really what you're saying is is is you know go out and put the relationship first start getting to know some property owners some people in the industry start you know being genuine and real and and dude they they deals come up here's the difference if you go after transactions like everyone is you have to build a call center or you have to be sitting there on an auto dialer making 500 calls a day like you just have to grind to find a deal you can do it lots of people do it lots of people make lots of money doing it relationships I have never deviated from this i left a sales job where I did that for years and years and years all I do for relationships two calls a day don't care if they answer or not you know don't you know message a mister if they don't hey it's Christian question for you call me back because I'm only calling two people a day when Bob calls me back I know who the heck's calling me back i'm like "Oh Bob thanks for calling me back you have that 25 unit building i'm not selling it good couldn't buy it if I wanted to." That's all it is and as you But you would think you would think you wouldn't get a lot of people willing to open up and be a be a establish a relationship i make 10 calls a week and I try to get one coffee meeting every weekend which means I will meet 52 owners in the time everyone else is saying "Oh no one's going to pick up the phone." Another thing you know 52 people that's a lot of people i like the technique but let me and and it's my kind of technique cuz again I mean like dude I procrastinated this long i don't need to buy their building i might as well just freaking get to know him but but can somebody do this that's busy but but they're willing to put in a Saturday and a Sunday or is this a long or is this a No you you you're going to have to put in way more time you I would I would never say dive into any business without taking time to learn the business there there should be a time be it 30 intense days or night you should understand when I am looking at a deal I am freaking confident that this is a deal you need to know your numbers like any other business you would It's just numbers though isn't it yeah it's just numbers give me give me the rent roll and I'll tell you if it's a good deal if as long as I got a a mortgage calculator cuz all I'm going to do tell me if I'm wrong here's what I would do i'd look at what they want i' I'd determine you know what what the you know down payment and everything has to be and what my debt service is going to be mhm and then I look at the rent roll if the if the debt service is 60% or less of the rent row it's a deal i mean you want to go a little deeper than that but I would like to see some of their actual expenses but if you get a general let's call it a a T12 they're trailing 12 months and I can look through their financials you can make a decision almost immediately hey I want to put this under contract yeah because you have 60 days to close it you're not getting married you're you're entering into an agreement of hey based on what you've showed me assuming that we can prove this is all true we like this price and we like these terms and we'll move forward and you you have tons of time to adjust yeah but don't but don't you have to think in your head what's the debt service going to be cuz if the rent roll doesn't cover the debt service it ain't never going to work and if you can I I say 60 at the pushing it I'd like to be 50/50 mhm what's the formula like in other words if the debt service is going to be 50 grand a month I better see a 100 grand a month coming from rent so that would be what you're really looking for is DSCR it's debt service coverage ratio so it is your net operating income and how well does that actually service your debt like as as a ratio so what banks want to see is about a 1.25 typically so I cover 100% of my debt after all of my expenses is there's another 25% of what I owe that I have as discretionary earning and business would be called sellers discretionary income okay so for simple earnings for simple math it's 75% then Mhm because if you have 25 1.25 it's 100% of the debt so what I'm saying is if the payment on the debt is going to be 50k then you'd want to see then I'd want I'd want to know that the rent roll was at least 50k and another 25 bucks so or 25 grand so so it's 100% Yeah plus maybe 25% yeah well beyond the rent roll though you you really want net operating income so you want income minus expenses is going to be if you do just the rent roll rent roll is only income i So I don't want to just look at topline income i want to look at bottom line income and how does that bottom line operating compared to the Okay so I look at the rent roll what I meant is the financials yeah you mean the T12 or the the P&L i want to know what what am I what what's your IBA yes exactly in business I'm looking for what is our seller discretionary earnings and that is the what do we have to pay myself and pay my mortgage yeah because when I look at because when I look at the numbers I'm going to owe that bank $50,000 a month if rent comes in at 100 grand but the net is two grand well you're screwed yeah but but I mean at the end of the day if if I look and the rent rolls 100 grand nine times out of 10 as long as I get that 100 I got the 50 yeah now if if if the expenses are 50 so there's nothing left then I would look at the expenses like what are they first of all what if it's freaking stupid [ __ ] that you you know is the owner taking money which is great because that can all play into your negotiations because that's like oh good there's a bunch of fluff in here i'll still run my own books now when you're new you're not allowed to make those assumptions like on your first deal you don't just assume like oh I don't need that expense because what you find out is oh [ __ ] maybe there's a reason this was on here when you have a little bit you know you've done this a few times i can look at those i'm buying a deal right now 76 units they're uh three and four bed pool clubhouse pave it's beautiful how much you need for it we are raising $2 million 2 million bucks that's it gorgeous property when we are buying this deal by the way $2 million is super easy to raise for that type of deal it's like we're buying nice real estate but you go and buy Oh man i lost my point i got all excited about the deal d I when we were buying these it is so fun to get in some of these deals and it's like okay we need to raise $2 million this deal is going to you know some of these you look at it's like we're going to double everyone's money on this deal some of these How long does it take like let's say I gave you the$2 million if I gave you the 2 million it'd be my deal if you gave me the 2 million but I found the deal I managed the deal this this is my point the operation so me as an operator if anyone else bought this deal in Steamville Texas they're the the fluff in their thing they have way too many employees way too many employees on site they're a California-based company they have multiple maintenance multiple leasing officers they all live on site it's their only asset in town it's a 76 unit building i own 95 other buildings there and my property management company's based in that town i don't need on-site maintenance because I have a maintenance team that services i'm playing zone not man-to-man i have an operating plan that will cost me a lot less because I have efficiencies i can write that i'm going to negotiate on all of their fluff which is how I got such a good price but when we come in and operate yeah our net operating income looks a lot higher because I'm going to cut a lot of that which increases the value of the property which it does now there's a certain point where a bank's going to look at if you save too much cost banks are going to go this is unrealistic even if it is real but for me I'm like we have an operating plan that absolutely works for this building we have actual numbers we season that for a few years that size building the building's just worth a heck of a lot more and then do you take your equity and run or do you borrow against it and go buy more property now what I typically do I like the real estate to buy the real estate i've always done this i liked borrowing against it one time to buy out the investors so I do a cash out refinance we break take even the creative stuff we take the creative stuff to the bank we pull the money out say goodbye to our investors here's here's all your money good job uh by the way if you want to invest in the next deal uh I heard you might be liquid as you hand them the check and you move on so I I have the buildings buy out my partners what if But if I'm a partner that's my money that's buying me out if you're a partner so keep it super even numbered for example it's a million dollars we get a seller finance 10% down we have a baller deal you put in 100 grand i have a buyout that says I can buy you out in the next three years for $200,000 i refinance you've doubled your money as an investor you're happy now we can reverse that if we want to do the deal together and I found the deal and I'm operating the deal and I put together the capital and I line up if you're coming in for the last 10% right i've already 90% of the money's figured out the deal everything's there we have the team the operations so if you're coming in as the investor in this you're like I want to own this building you can negotiate the opposite okay you you put in $100,000 all of this happens because of all my work and sure uh why don't you why don't you buy me out for $200 out of a cash out refi i could be fine making $200,000 now wouldn't Yeah I would be unlikely to do that but but if I spent zero dollars and I did what I did and I was like "Okay my salary in this this small million- dollar deal was $200,000 like that's my return that doesn't suck and now I have $200,000 i wouldn't be opposed to that if there was a if there was a project where someone's like "What if I bought you out?" Like do you need a construction team and management team do you do you need all that no because if I go out and buy my first deal am I going to be sitting there collecting rent no too many people do that that's why you need to buy one don't buy a tiny building just skip that phase oh it sounds like I want to buy about a 75 unit that would be a good great target yeah but then again I'm by myself i do not have construction workers i don't have workers to go in there and recarpet [ __ ] i'm like dude now I'm sitting there and when someone calls with a broken toilet I'm like call a plumber no on that size building that is that was just part of your operating expenses you have a management team and that is the interview for the management team i have this construction project how are you going to handle it how are you going to bid it where am I going to get nickel and dimed on this i don't want to pay a bunch of trip fees for some random guy to come out from two counties over but when you started dude you didn't have a team how'd you develop the team you start with the asset and you build out the team part of starting a business you have to freaking start the business i uh when I worked at the Co-Star Group they always they would always say this is just company direction i love this it's ready shoot aim as an entrepreneur it's like okay I I know where I'm headed let's fire let's see how close we got to the mark and let's let's hone it on in i don't like wasting a lot of time on hey I'm gonna go figure out the accounting team and the property manager and the lawyer and the people waste all of their time reading these real estate books and it just tells you oh build your team build the You're not going to have investors if you don't have a deal you're not going to have a property manager if you don't own any property you don't need a CPA if you only have a W2 buy the deal and build the team i bought the 38 i did a lot of the work myself i went through my first three contractors on that two of them sucked one of them were good we got screwed on a couple of units but we spread it out over the project figured out who my guy was we built the team so you're just saying get in there and do it yeah with good analytics and and some amount of planning and caution but yes don't don't spend forever trying to build the perfect business the main questions that I get from new investors are the least important things well where's the money coming from the money for what you don't have a deal do I need to file an LLC now what are you putting in the LLC you don't have a deal so why don't I just again use my podcast use my social media to say "Send me deals." Because it sounds like finding the deal is the hardest part finding the deal takes the most time i wouldn't say it's particularly hard but that is the at least the way I do it it's a relationship game it's you're not going to look on the market and be like "There's a deal we're going to buy it right now it's going to take you a few months." You build up you build up a rhythm and a momentum and as your network expands it becomes easy well how about this folks everybody listening if you got a deal if you own a building or or or a property that you don't want or that you want to sell or maybe you just inherited or maybe you know somebody in your family that has one it's not on the market send me a DM and and I'll buy it send Brad your deals brad make sure someone on your team knows what the hell they're doing there you go you can call me i know a lot of people doing it i could call a lot of people actually but every time and I've said this before and I do get DMs but then I always go like one time someone sent me a DM it was I forget where like Arkansas or some [ __ ] and I thought damn dude cool maybe I'll go buy this so I sent it to I forget who it was too someone that was on the show that was in multif family and he goes I'd stay away from that deal and I'm like why and he had told me why and I'm like [ __ ] so I told the dude yeah not interested see what I mean like I would I I would have bought it but then I would have been screwed because I don't have the experience and I think that's what stops most people so it didn't stop you though you just But don't make the mistake I made with my resorts like I didn't work with anyone who knew what they were doing on my resort when I started with multif family even my first partner he's a 22-y old but he already done 30 units in that town so wouldn't your best advice be for someone wanting to learn is like get a hold of you get a little education first oh absolutely you need to know on a basic level what your options are i said deal debt equity if you don't know how you structure debt you're going to try to put together the deal one way and it's the same way everyone else looked at it and you don't have an opportunity so step one should be go get a little education yeah i need to know when I see a deal that I'm looking at a deal there's some inputs where you're like how do I know what taxes are going to be after I close how do I know what insurance there's some things it's like okay to actually analyze this deal I need a little education i'm talking a few months of education this isn't a lifetime thing you come in you figure out when when do I know a deal is a deal you know that what are my options to structure the debt if there's remaining money to bring in say raise another million dollars for something what are the different ways that I can structure that is either debt or if we're bringing on partners what equity structure we're going to do there's preferred returns there's I'm not going to Is this what you're teaching people you teach it in the beginning yes you need to know what you need to know what levers you can pull to put the deal together and there's not that many and it's not that hard there's you go through each of the things in order okay what is a deal what debt options are available what equity structures are common you can get as creative as you want in them but the answer to creative finance and that's how I bought everything because if you start with no money you have to get creative it is the simplest answer from A to B every single time it's what is the least creative way that we can get creative and get this done every time I've got too creative on a deal shot myself in the foot or forgot to do something like never a good idea but that 38x the only thing that needed to be done is let's not have payments for 6 months i will pay you a down payment give me six months to get the income on this property up so that I can give you the $10,000 you requested and if you and if you fail and if you fail to get the property back that I've put $0 in that case you're not an investor lose money yeah but you took six months of my rent row because once I make the deal oh no no no that's absolutely true you have to be solving a legitimate problem for them the problem is they've failed to solve their own rent roll i've come with a plan of I'm fixing your rent roll your worst case scenario as the seller is I paid you $300,000 and I made a big attempt to get that you better believe the two kids in their 20s buying this building are going to do everything in their power to not lose it in those six months i'm like do you really believe this is going to be in a worse condition in 6 months and lo and behold it worked and we were really confident going into this too cuz this was a 2019 2020 2021 zone where we still had the government would still pay a bunch of back due rent so we were able to get that relief fund and get in there right off the bat for all the delinquent tenants we got three months of a rears three months in the future so I got like half a year of income at the end of month one see it sounds like you just got lucky oh wouldn't that be nice yeah if it's just lucky there's You roll enough dice you're always lucky right yeah when you pick up the phone the guy's willing to do this pick up the phone the guy's willing to do that hey just walked in we got half We got We got half a year's worth of rent what's the downside what can happen if if you don't know what you're doing if you don't know what you're doing you raise $300,000 from three people you don't know and you lose all their money sure the the owners made a hole right they get their building back you just brought in $300,000 we've seen this happen all over the market especially when interest rates spiked people who were borrowing on variable rate debt a bunch of them got wiped out they had to go back to their investors and ask for more money to mitigate the losses it wasn't even to secure the gain they're like "Hey we need to raise more capital so we don't lose this deal so you guys lose less money." And it was all because of the interest rate going up it's because people didn't lock in their variables so if you're doing creative financing and the and the owner's the the bank you create your own debt product if the debt's not if the deal's not cash flowing and they're locked in on price you can either borrow less money or you can borrow cheaper money that's the only way to increase cash flow which means put more down get a lower price which often isn't the answer or you borrow cheaper money say "Hey I want this deal works but I need 4% interest." And 4% interest isn't that helpful if it's a one-year debt product because you built all your value in the debt and now the debt's gone so it has to be long-term fixed rate i know what my expenses are so when I buy a deal that has income day one my income has gone up there's two qu I'll keep it even simpler there's only two questions to underwriting how do you buy it how do you never lose it you answer both those questions you've done it how do you buy it where's what's the deal how do you never lose it does it pay me forever to keep it a billionaire told me once "The trick to real estate is never sell." That is very true yeah and I'm like I get it now but back then I was like what do you mean how do you make any money then real estate's not get rich quick either you can you can get paper rich in real estate this is people misrepresent all the time and as a coach a lot of people get online and try to sell this like "Oh yeah I made a million dollars." Having a million dollars of equity in real estate is not hard to do i did that in my 20s on my third deal like just by itself to actually be able to touch that money and use that money it's easy is it just as easy to lose the equity with the market as it is to get it so you get all these paper millionaires to actually pull money out of real estate it does take time you have to season these this What's the What's the rough amount of time two years two years is where you really start seeing the money from it because even if you went to a bank to refinance they'll want to see hey you just bought it for this price they're going to use that price for the first year or two they want to see your operations how it's performing it's not a get it's not get rich quick it's get rich a lot faster than I think a lot of other vehicles is it as easy sometimes as as buying it and then just sending a note to every tenant your rent's going up by 100 bucks don't like it move out and if they move out fine i just rent it to somebody else on occasion that is the move if it's if it's a property that's just grossly under rent and that's why the deal worked more often than not I like to do this in two phases you buy the deal the first thing you do is if it's way under market rent almost every time the landlord's done a bad job upkeeping the building like they they're a slum lord and so you have low rents you have beat up buildings first thing we do all the maintenance requests immediately i want to send the message that hey this is going to be different so I solicit hey everyone who has a broken stove toilet door whatever submit your work orders then we do all those work orders and what happens after that is you get a wave of everyone else going like "Oh [ __ ] they actually did do this." And then everyone gives you another wave of work orders you finish those now you're 60 days in your tenants are like "Okay I ask for stuff i get it new management cares the building's getting better." And then yeah you do a rent increase if that's what the project requires sometimes that is the right thing to do you come in on the rent it rent increase and this is the part where people freak out online right because they're like "Oh you're just jacking the rents you're you're the problem." But it's a free market you come in we're just providing hey how do we proide great housing and great people we need the correct amount of income for the correct asset so we can afford to make the building better make it safe and finish the project sometimes it's we're we're installing lights in the parking lot so it's not a freaking dimly lit danger zone yeah sometime I I bought uh one of my heavier renovation projects you can absolutely buy turnkey real estate this way by the way but I enjoy some of the projects that have a little bit more rena to them uh bought a failing motel it already had a bunch of long-term tenants in there there's no kitchens and people are just using their bathrooms it just it's super slummy great location awesome for affordable housing our project we came in new paint new floors new light fixtures redid the electric and the heat installed kitchens it didn't cost that much way better space rent went from like 300 bucks a month it's like $1,000 a month we went incredible increase in value to the building relatively inexpensive renovation you can actually do it pretty affordably the government pays most of the leases in there yeah you're going to need you're going to need to know renovations pretty much right you will need to get comfortable with it you do not need to know renovations to start especially if you went after the owner relationships first have other people in your court who know what they're doing who can refer you to the right people but to start becoming an investor people try to add all these stupid steps they're like "Hey I want to become a broker i need to work in the field i'm going to work for a property management company i'm going to save up forever." You become an investor by investing in something i think buy the building well I was going to say "Hey listen if you guys are new get up on Saturday Google this go talk to this." I was going to walk them through it in reality I think the smartest move anyone can make is just freaking reach out and freaking start getting a little toutelage from you to where it's not just a little podcast advice well and to be fair that's what I did right i went out to owners who have done the thing I want to do and I've done it for free i've done it paid i've done it both ways i've paid hundreds of thousand dollars to people to learn it's worth it but you get in and you find hey someone who has a method that resonates with you like this makes sense to me or I want to learn more about this the way they're doing it what I would stay away from is the people who only flash the "Hey I made it." There's a bunch of people who haven't bought a deal in three years maybe they did do a lot of real estate but they're now just a coach where do they go to get your training your your toutelage multif family strategy.com you can check it out on YouTube too multif family strategy on YouTube if this is a method that that resonates with you you're like "Hey I I like the idea of buying a property that increases my income and that's my rule like I must increase my income permanently on every deal if that's something that makes sense to you and you're like "Hey playing this with or without money sounds interesting." Yeah hit me up even send me a DM on Instagram i'll answer there christian Osgood christian Ozgood folks dude you're you're uh you're on your way you look younger but hey congrats on your success i'm glad you're kicking it thank you very much guys listen real estate's a hell of a freaking investment it it does take a little bit of time but once you get it down bro it's a it's a money maker like you know there there you can go back in history and that's probably one of the most secure investments ever absolutely until next time folks keep it real [Music]