There's two main categorical reasons why I say Harris would be better than Trump. The first category is character. Speaking of which, you know, if we're bringing up stuff from the past, we can say, she slept with Willie Brown, broke up a family just to get her job. She got 4.5 million votes to get into AG and DA and slept with zero of them. You don't know that though.
That's how you feel about Donald Trump. You know that? No, absolutely not. Okay, so you think that she slept with 4.5 million people to get into the position of power? I'm sure she could have, but the one person that she did was the most important person that she did.
Wait, are you serious? Did you just say that she had to sleep with 4.5 million people? My name is Dean Withers. I'm a 19-year-old liberal. I do political debate for a living.
And today, I'm surrounded by 20 Trump supporters. My first claim is Donald Trump is a racist. Beep, Yeah, so I don't understand how people get this idea that Trump is racist.
You know, my family came from a communist country. They came from Cuba and they came from Mexico. So I don't see anything or any statement that he's ever made that's racist. I mean, there's things that there's accusations, but there's no facts behind it.
And this whole idea that all Hispanics are illegal immigrants and they came here undocumented is not true because my family came here on both sides from through the illegal immigration process, not illegally. the ear. Okay, so that was a bold claim. You just said that, you know, there's no facts to substantiate the idea that Donald Trump is going to be a racist.
So in the 1970s, there's civil litigation held against him by the DOJ of the state of New York for literally not renting to black people. What they did is they'd send in quote unquote testers to his rental. properties at the time.
They'd send in a white person. The white person would ask the property manager if they had any available properties to rent. They'd say, yes, here we go.
Here's housing application. Then they'd send in a black tester that asked the same question, and then they'd actually be denied. When this was investigated by the DOJ, the property manager told them that this was just a quote unquote order from the higher up, from this boss, from Donald Trump. And then they investigated Donald Trump, brought civil litigation against him.
And they, yeah, they essentially determined that, yeah, he wasn't renting to black people, in which he then had a promise to the OJ that he was no longer going to racially profile in his housing application and even how to put ads in the New York, in the New York newspaper. So basically, so what you're saying is basically he's not renting to black people, but yet he employs a lot of minorities. He employs a lot of blacks.
He attacks Asians, Hispanics onto his staff, so why wouldn't he be renting to black people? That doesn't make any sense. Also, it seems to me that-Because it is an example of racism. But also, it's an example that the Department of Justice is weaponized against people that do something in life. Can you give me any evidence of that?
I'll give you evidence of that, yes, I will. Because Trump was political for a very long time. He made political statements. He was very unpopular with a lot of Democrats. He would say things that they didn't like.
And they would go after him. They would weaponize the Department of Justice, just like they are right now. They're weaponizing the Department of Justice against him. They're using the government for their political power to go against him because they disagree with his political opinion. That's what they do.
The Democrats have been going after him for years, even considering he used to be a registered Democrat. So I don't believe that Trump is racist whatsoever. I don't see that because I see his employees.
I've been to a lot of his properties in the past. And I know that he hires a lot of minorities, so I don't believe that to be true. Okay, so your claim here is that, well, he actually didn't do what the DOJ accused him and held him liable for doing. Yeah, but the DOJ says a lot of things that doesn't make it true.
Let me finish real quick. So you're saying that the DOJ actually was unfairly persecuting Donald Trump, a political opponent. In the 70s, he wasn't running for any public office, so I don't know why you'd say that was a political opponent.
it. But maybe we can look at a more intuitive example. He's made political statements in the seventies as well. Okay. Yeah.
Okay. So your claim is that, yeah, the DOJ was unfairly persecuting him. Do you have any evidence of that? If you go back, do you have any evidence why the DOJ was investigating him in the first place?
Yeah, because they'd got, no, there's no evidence. I mean, the DOJ has been an illegitimate organization for a very long time. So they make a lot of statements, but it doesn't mean that they're going to actually, that they actually go through with anything. Nothing really happened at the end of the day. It was just a witch hunt at the end of the day.
Okay. Well, I mean, I don't think you'd have any evidence for the claim that it was a witch hunt. I think that at the end of the day, this is a conspiracy theory. I think that Donald Trump has... Conspiracy theory.
Why don't I finish real quick? Thanks. So I think that at the end of the day, this is going to be a conspiracy theory. I think that the DOJ does this... I'm sorry, that Donald Trump would perpetuate a lot of conspiracy theories.
He did this with the outcome of the 2020 election. But let's look at another example that's not coming from like the DOJ or like the criminal justice system. We're like referencing like 2012 through 2014. Donald Trump said that because Barack Obama is black, he's obviously...
not a U.S. born citizen. So therefore he did not say that he was black. He's not a U.S. born citizen. Let's talk about the birther movement. Right.
So I just have a quick question. Would you say trying to take there was legitimacy questioning his birth certificate, questioning his birth certificate? What legitimacy questioning his family came from Kenya? How is he running for Donald Trump's mother's a Scottish as a Scottish immigrant?
Should we question his birth certificate? They came here through the legal process. He didn't come here through the legal process.
Wait, so you're saying that Obama Thomas'parents were undocumented migrants? Which would have disqualified him as president. I just want to answer a question.
I want to ask you a question. Sheriff Gerard Pio, who I'm friends with, looked into the claims of that birth certificate and there was questions of whether it was falsified. Wait, you actually believe that?
Yes, I do believe that. Okay, so you were racist just like Donald Trump? I'm not racist. Oh wow, you're calling a Hispanic and a Cuban racist.
Do you mind if I take 30 seconds here? Alright, so first of all... Yes. Another white liberal.
All right. Want to start where you guys left off? Yeah. I think that hopefully we can slow things down a little bit here, have some productive conversation. So, yeah.
How about I just start off by giving you my reasons why I think that Donald Trump is racist. So with the last guy, we kind of touched on the civil litigation. that was held against him in the 1970s for not renting to black people.
But I want to focus upon a more intuitive example, proponing the idea that Barack Obama was not a U.S.-born citizen. So first, I just want to ask you a very simple question. What do you say trying to... to take away opportunity from a black man because he's black is racism? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, yes, I do believe that.
But I think we also have to look into what the administration, when he was in office, did, not what happened back in 1970 when he wasn't even in office and was a complete different administration making the rules. When he was in office, he gave opportunity zones, gave funding to HBCUs. He also implemented the First Step Act, which I feel like liberals really focus on like, oh, our... prison system has a majority of African Americans in there.
So we gave them an opportunity to get out early, to start a new life. So I think if we're going to go back and look at some stuff of the 1970s, that's not really fair because there's a lot of people on the Democrat side that have done worse things while in office. Joe Biden, who, when he was a senator, pushed to get African Americans incarcerated at a higher rate. Like, actions speak louder than words at the end of the day. and what Trump did in office helped the black community an exponential amount compared to all the other administrations on the Democratic Party.
Okay, so you're saying what he did in office helped African Americans more than other administrations. Yeah. You referenced historically black universities. Do you know how much funding he sent to HBCUs?
A decent amount. A decent amount. I can't give you the exact number.
So the exact amount was $250 million per year. Okay. Do you know how much Obama's administration and Biden's administration have sent? I don't know. I would like to hear.
Obama sent $1 billion a year, and Biden sent $4 billion a year. So not only did he decrease funding to historically black universities, but also you referenced the First Step Act there. How did Donald Trump influence the First Step Act to get passed?
Through Congress. Well, how did he influence that bill through Congress? Answer that question for me. Because he didn't influence it.
In fact, it was proposed to Congress under Obama's administration, and it was shot down. And then something else I did want to reference. But at the end of the day, as president, he has the ability to sign or send a bill back to Congress, and he signed it. If he was truly racist, He would not have signed it in the first place.
Okay, but about the end of the day. He still signed it He has that ability just like every president before they don't like a bill They have the ability to send it right back to Congress and there's congressional means to get it passed without the president's approval But still he signed it if he's really a racist why do you sign it in the first place? Yeah Well, I don't think that we could just ignore Trump saying that Obama isn't a u.s Born citizen and he's probably from Kenya, right? I don't think that we could ignore But here's the thing.
I finish here sir. Hey, go ahead. I don't think that we could the civil litigation against him in the 1970s for not renting to black people.
I don't think we could ignore his recent comments about Kamala Harris saying that she turned black implying that she wasn't black prior, just because he signed the first step back into law. Like I understand that does do something for the African American community, but I don't think we could say because he did this one thing that all of these other examples are null and void. You also referenced Joe Biden there. I have no problem saying that Joe Biden has a racist past. And in fact, I think that's something I need to recognize and we should all recognize.
But what I can't stand is when I hear people. denying Trump's racism, saying it never occurred when it's so obvious. But at the end of the day, what I'm trying to explain right now is that Biden has signed bills into law, voted for them that hurt the community.
Trump has not done anything to that extent. Sure, he says some things that are maybe a little bit iffy. Way back, you're saying things from back in the 1970s that did not even have, like... He couldn't even, like, sign a law or anything like that because he wasn't even in office. 3, 4, 3, 2, 1. Okay, I guess where I want to start with is looking at the actual word racist.
I think nowadays it's a word that people throw around kind of like the word love. It is a very powerful word. It has a lot of negative connotation. It has a lot of power that comes with it.
When I think of racists, I think of Hitler, who murdered millions of Jews. When I think of racists, I think of the Ottoman Turks that murdered 1.5 million of my people. I think of that.
I don't think of Trump, who maybe he said things in the past, this or that. If we want to go about talking about saying things, Biden said Obama is one of the first mainstream blacks to be bright and intelligent. He said that you can only walk into a 7-Eleven if you have an Indian accent. He has said that if you vote for Trump over him, you're not black.
He said so many of these things in his past, and the prompt is talking about, is Trump racist? But to me, it's not about that because of how the media has displayed racism. They just focus on Trump, and it is about both sides.
They don't touch upon Biden. They don't talk about Biden. And when you look at his policies, like my friend mentioned, if Trump was a racist, he would not be passing policies.
He wouldn't even give a dollar to these black universities. If he truly had this, it's an intention of the heart. And I'll go out and I'll step out and say, I'm sure everybody here has said something racist in their life. That doesn't make you a racist.
It's kind of like if you weigh 400 pounds and you eat celery, you're not skinny. All these examples that you're talking about are from years and years ago. What has he done that's racist in the last maybe five, 10 years? 10 years ago, 2014, Trump was actively proponing Barack Obama's birther myth.
The idea. that he was not born in the US. But you already said that example. Give me something new.
Okay, fine. Yeah, sure. I mean, you're asking for something in the last five to ten years. That was ten years ago. I thought that I'd just go over that again.
Another reason why I wanted to go over that again with you is because how intuitively racist it is, right? Denying or saying that a black man should have less opportunity because of the color of his skin is very obviously racist. When did he make that comment?
Yeah, so the whole birther myth with Barack Obama, right, I essentially hope to achieve that he wasn't born in the U.S., he was born in Kenya, and because he's not a U.S.-born citizen, he shouldn't have the opportunity to run for U.S. president. The only reason he said that is because of the color of Barack Obama's skin. But has he explicitly said he said that specifically because he's black, or are you just taking that assumption?
Okay, so what else? What explanation do we have here? I've said everything I need to say.
I'm waiting on you. Okay, so I mean, well, yeah, I think that looking at Barack Barack Obama saying that he was born in Africa and then even denying his birth certificate from Hawaii, still attributing his birth to Africa, I don't really see any other explanation apart from that besides the fact that Barack Obama has black skin. And then another example from-That's also a comment.
That wasn't a racist action. That was a comment. He's-Okay. What action has he taken part in the last five, 10 years that have been racist against not even just blacks, against other races? First, I don't think that we should call African-Americans blacks.
I think that's a dehumanizing word. Yeah. Second of all, even if we look at the last month or two, I'd say that saying Kamala Harris quote unquote turned black, implying that she wasn't black prior, that's another racist comment. We could also reference that. Yeah, because she plays with that.
One day she's Indian, one day she's black. That's not true. Hello. Howdy.
Very nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you as well. So, you know, you're looking back at Donald Trump's history.
One thing I do want to say, I don't know if you are aware, Palm Beach didn't used to let African Americans there. Donald Trump sued the city of Palm Beach to allow black membership at Mar-a-Lago. That is not racist. I think one of the problems that we have a lot on the left, every time there's a disagreement, we get thrown. racist, you're a sexist, you're this, you're that, and it dissolves the discussions that we should be having on policies.
Secondly, Donald Trump worked with Senator Scott to create opportunity zones in Black communities. If he was truly a racist, it's not something that he would do. So I think the whole premise is he's a racist, he's a sexist, takes away from policy positions that we should be discussing.
If we go to the border and we talk about rapists and murderers, yeah, they are happening. Lakin Riley is now dead. We have 300,000 missing migrant children known sold into the sex trade per the last IG report. These are important issues.
Our economy is an important issue. Do you mind if I ask you a question? Absolutely.
Are you a U.S.-born citizen? 100%. You are statistically speaking four times more likely.
to commit a violent crime than an undocumented migrant. So when you kind of virtue signal on behalf of that. They shouldn't be here. Okay, all right. And my husband's an immigrant.
Okay, yeah, but-A legal immigrant. Okay. Who came here legally.
Okay, I understand-We've got 100 ISIS in our country right now that was reported. We've got gotaways. We've got Tende Deragua. I've interviewed Oscar Blue, who's been through the Darien Gap four times.
People are dying. Okay, so you're saying that we have a crisis at the southern border. Well, I'm saying that you're saying that Donald Trump is racist. Donald Trump loves America. Okay, okay, well first of all-And he puts Americans first.
I wanna ask you one simple question first, then maybe we can get back to the prompt. Do you think that we have a crisis at the southern border today? 100%.
So you'd say that we also had a crisis at the southern border at the end of Trump's term because we have the same amount of daily crossings today than then? No, we do not have the same amount of crossings. Yes, we have about 2,400 crossings today than as we had at the end of Trump's term after Biden's extended border.
We have up to 14,000 crossings a day. The Biden-Harris administration put us back into what's called the global compact of migration. They are now using an app where they use our refugee resettlement program to fly people into our country to different states.
So for you to say that the Trump administration that had did not have catch and release that that is not. And Biden put it back in. And then we also had remain in Mexico, which on day one of Biden's administration, he wiped out because it was ineffective. I mean, we can.
Oh, it was very effective. You mind if I talk real quick? I. It's just propaganda.
It's what you've heard from CNN and MSNBC. Actually, how about I provide you a source that isn't CNN, isn't MSNBC, and it's actually a source from Donald Trump's rally. So remember when Donald Trump got shot in his ear?
What did he have behind him? It was the chart that showed the lowest crossings in history. Do you mind if I talk about that chart?
I have the chart. Should we bring it out? You have the chart with you?
Yeah, I do. Bring the chart out. Can you hand me my purse someone? Like you have like an actual picture of the chart?
I do. Phenomenal. Let's look at the chart. She's prepared.
This is great. Oh, it's on your phone. I thought that you had like an actual...
Well, it's a picture. We can hold it up to the camera if they want to see it. Okay, well, I mean... Well, maybe we could just reference the data on that chart.
So you're referencing the Remain in Mexico policy. So that was one of Donald Trump's day ones. He only had increasing border...
numbers until the day he signed Title 42 into effect. Year by year, they only increased. Is that why-The Mexican policy, the wall, it was all incredibly ineffective border legislation.
He couldn't get Congress together to pass anything, so then he had to reappropriate-That's not true. The wall. That's not true.
Congress passed H.R. 2. It's been sitting on Chuck Schumer's desk since May of 2023. It was the one bill that would secure the border. Border Patrol has endorsed President Trump. law enforcement has endorsed President Trump. Okay.
The Biden administration and the Harris administration have failed this nation and they have allowed this invasion of our country and Americans are dying. And sorry, these gang members should not be here. I have a question.
So what do you say we had an undocumented migrant that was like a felon, a sexual abuser, right, a violent offender that they shouldn't be allowed in the country? 100%, none of these people should be without process. Okay, so my question to you would be, well then why do you want a criminal, felon, sexual abuser to run the country? Because I believe that we're suffering from an extreme case of lawfare, which I can prove. And when you look at, let's take for instance the New York case, the one that he's going to probably go to jail for even though he's not guilty.
The 34 felonies? The 34 felonies that they changed the statute of limitations in order to prosecute him, that they changed-Your case is confused. So they didn't change any statute of limitations? Yes, they did. One second, I know what you're referencing, if you'll just allow me-Yes, they did.
Just allow me-But not only-You might just have 30 seconds. Well, we only have 40 seconds left. I just want to clarify, they didn't change-You've got the seat the whole time.
Okay, we have 35 seconds left. What were his felonies for? Okay, so let's not talk about that.
Let's talk about the plain and simple fact that they moved the number three from Biden's DOJ to a state case. Let's talk about the fact that Mark- Pomerantz, who worked in the Biden administration, basically pled the fifth, sixth time when he said that he was talking to Bragg. And he would not talk about that. Alvin Bragg ran on getting Trump.
Let's talk about Judge Merchant's daughter, Laura, who's making millions for the Harris administration and the Biden administration right now in order to prosecute Trump. That is recusal. It's going to get dropped at the Supreme Court.
Alvin Bragg should have recused himself. Judge Merchant should have recused himself. I like your power. My next claim is Donald Trump doesn't care about the American people. Beep.
I completely disagree with you on that. That Trump doesn't, you're saying he doesn't care about the American people. I mean, while he was president, he was pushing pro-economic policies, which were furthering the American economy.
I mean, right now, if you go to a gas station, you're paying more money to fill up your car. Going to the grocery store, you're paying more for meat, you're paying more for groceries. You're paying more for a lot of things. Taxes are higher right now. So why-Wait, taxes are higher right now?
We're still under Donald Trump's tax code. We're not completely-No, that's not true. That's not-that's not true. Because each individual state can impose their own taxes.
Federal taxes from the federal tax office. I'm gonna give you an example. In Los Angeles County, they passed all these other measures increasing quarter cent sales tax here in Los Angeles County. And what do they do with the money? They misuse the money.
They don't even use it to fix the streets. They allocate all this funding towards the homeless. billions of dollars saying they're going to build all these shelters, they're going to build public housing, and yet all the money goes to administrative costs.
It goes into the pension system. So they're misusing the money. They're not using the money to actually help people.
So if you think about someone who's going to help people, Democrats have been promising people in the state of California that they're going to do something about the problem, yet they have unlimited power here to do whatever they want. But yet we have... Thousands of homeless.
The LA Times reported that there was 66,000 more homeless people in the last seven years. That's the LA Times. That's the liberal magazine quoted there's 66,000 more homeless people in Los Angeles County alone. You want to ask a question? Go ahead.
So, I've like a lot of reasons I'd like to bring up here why I'd say that Trump doesn't care about the American people. but you referenced his economic policy and we could reference that. So yeah, can you name like one economic policy that Donald Trump influenced to get passed that benefited the low and the middle class more than it benefited the top 1%?
Well, first of all, the Democrats passed all these policies. Wait, just about Donald Trump. Can you name one policy he influenced to get passed that benefits the low and the middle class more than it benefited the top 1%?
Yeah, he tried it during COVID. He tried to keep businesses open. I mean, Democrats were trying to close down all their states.
Can you name a policy? Businesses. that they put no no no they put a lot of businesses out of business during covid during the past years that covid was in existence all the states that were liberal democrat run uh states have controlled a lot of the the process here in the state of california like i'll give you an example you did you didn't answer i'm so sorry the state of california gavin newsom in the state of california gavin newsom shut down the state ron de santis did not shut down his state yet you had businesses here that were small that went out of business Yet you have the state of Florida, the majority of businesses stayed in business, did not go out of business.
The only businesses that went out of business, that stayed in business, were corporations like McDonald's, Burger King, and Walmart. Okay, sir. And by the way, by the way, by the way, the Democrats were benefiting those businesses because they were voting in favor of them.
Okay, with all due respect, you literally didn't answer my question. I asked you to name a policy that Trump influenced to get past that. But yet you're the one that called me racist earlier, so I'm supposed to answer you? Okay, well, I mean, if you don't want to have a productive dialogue with me here, um, I don't see what your point in even showing up to the episode would be.
Well, productive is not calling someone racist either, right? Cool. Howdy.
Hello. Hi. George.
So maybe we could go about it this way. Can I give you my reasons why I'd say that he doesn't care about the American people and get your thoughts? Let me, if you don't mind, let me start. Okay. Is, honestly, the question's dumb.
The statement's dumb. Because... it's one-sided and it's an opinion on what we think he believes or he feels. This prompt says Donald Trump doesn't care about the American people. I would like to give you my reason.
Well, I'll actually answer the other. the other thing you mentioned, a policy that Donald Trump pushed for that benefited low and middle income people. More than it benefited the top 1%.
His tax policies. And I know this for a fact because I'm middle low income and everyone I know that's middle low income. Um, actually, I don't know that many. Everyone makes more money than me. No, the only, the only people I know of that complain about Trump's tax policies are those that make a reasonable high amount of money.
There is nobody I know that makes over like 200 something K that doesn't complain about his tax policy. So I don't know what you make doing this. It's probably more than I make. I kind of wish I did what you do to a degree, but if you're making more than 200 K, then I'm sure you can complain, but I'm benefiting and I make less than you probably. Okay.
So first of all, you said that Trump's tax policy benefited the low and middle class more than it benefited rich people. That claim is false. 83% of the tax cuts in the bill, went to the top 1%, went to people making over $400,000 a year, and it cost the American taxpayer $1.9 trillion through debt-related spending, and it only is going to lead to an average annual GDP increase of 0.02%. Please allow me to finish.
So it is the case that no, that didn't benefit the low and the middle class more so than the top 1%, and only is leading to a greater income. I don't believe you and I don't agree with you and I've seen no data to support that. Okay, so that's coming from the Tax Policy Foundation. That's coming from, you know, like other economic sources that we would find online to be able to distribute how much it costs.
Okay. So is it alright if I give you my reasons why I'd say he doesn't care about the American people? In ten seconds or less.
Okay, well I mean I feel like in order to have productive dialogue, we have to be able to distinguish why I... believe the things that I say. Okay.
And then I'll let you know why I believe the things that I do. Okay. So the reason I'd say that Donald Trump doesn't care about the American people is because he has incessantly placed himself above the American people. One of the best examples of this was in 2020 when he denied the American people. the outcome of the election and then he attempted to stage a queue against our government and then attempt to rig the outcome of the 2020 election by like sending fake certificates of ascertainment to Congress to be certified as real.
That was the greatest internal attack on our government since the Civil War. Another example would be the border. He has inconsistently placed himself above the American people in that respect.
He torpedoed Lankford's bill in the Senate that would have specifically brought it into the crisis two years ago because he didn't want to give the Democrats a win. Let's slow down. Wait, Let's slow down because you just put out so much.
And let's unpack that a little bit. Let's do it. Okay, so the first thing that you...
One thing I would like to say, does Donald Trump care about the American people? Donald Trump went to East Palestine. Joe Biden waited six months.
Okay? Okay. Donald Trump went to the military families of the soldiers that were killed at Abbey Gate. Joe Biden forgot their names. Donald Trump went and visited the people whose families were killed by migrants that were criminals.
Joe Biden won't mention their names. Donald Trump let me, an average American citizen, go to his house three times. Okay, do you mind responding to my reasons?
Okay, let's start with reason one. Every election in history has had challenges, including Bush v. Gore. There have always been alternate electorals.
I believe that January 6th helped Democrats well more than it ever did Republicans. You know why? Because it stopped the debate on the floor.
And I, as a Republican, wanted to see that debate on the floor that day. I had a problem with the elections. In 2022, my son's vote didn't arrive and I was a candidate.
Okay, I just want to clarify. So you do affirm that Trump sent fake slates of electors to seven different states? They were not fake.
There's always alternate slates of electors in every single election. That is not true. That is not true.
That is true. That is not true. That is true. I worked on the Ron Paul campaign when you were like five.
Is it possible? This has happened all the time. Okay, yeah. Could you give me another example of a sitting U.S. president not agreeing with the outcome of the 2020 election, then going to the DOJ, Trump told Bill Barr to announce widespread voter fraud when there wasn't any. They didn't investigate it.
They didn't investigate it. Every single case was-They did. There were 63 court cases.
That were dismissed on standing. Because they didn't have sufficient evidence to prove that it occurred. No, because they, the judges said they never saw the evidence.
Okay, I'm going to go and tell you what happened with the 2020 election. So Donald Trump formed his own-You're going to tell me what you think happened, but I'm going to tell you that you're wrong. Okay, one moment, ma'am. Donald Trump formed, right, an election integrity committee.
where he appointed his people and gave them millions of dollars. And what's happening now? Do you mind if I finish?
No, I do mind because you know what? Okay, ma'am, if you can allow me to finish, we can't have a productive conversation here. Well, we can't have productive conversations when you have an entire 20 minutes and filibuster the whole thing.
Okay, well, if you want to talk, go ahead, but you're not allowing me the time to demonstrate why I believe in what I do. Okay, but you're not allowing me to say basic fact of what has happened in this instance. Every person that runs for election has the opportunity to challenge. An electoral process, that is not illegal.
What's happening now is you've got attorneys that were looking into the election fraud, which the Biden DOJ is now prosecuting, having their law licenses removed. We are watching communism in live action. And you know what?
I want you to have a future. Can you define communism? Yeah, basically it's mob rule. It's Marxism.
It's mob rule. False. Literally all wrong. Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society. Okay.
Welcome in. Doing all right. Trump's administration versus Biden's, objectively, 2016 to 2020, and then under Biden so far, up to date. Objectively, the economy was better under Trump.
Inflation was as high as, I believe, 9% under Biden. It's destroying the middle class, and then it's also putting people in more poverty. So how does that make Trump not be...
In support of American people. If it's breaking down the middle caste, putting people in more poverty. Yeah. So things in the grocery store are four times higher to pay for. People are having a harder time to put food on the table for their families.
Yeah. During the Biden administration versus Trump. So I want you to explain.
Well, let's start off here. Do you think that the Biden-Harris administration cost inflation? Yeah, because under Trump's administration and the policies he induced, inflation was never that high. And then after COVID hit and Biden's administration took over, everything skyrocketed. Gas prices, groceries, everything.
So your argument here is because it happened in the country while they were president, they caused it. So my question to you is, did Donald Trump cause the highest rate of unemployment that we've had since the Great Depression in August of 2020 at 14.8% simply because it happened under his administration? No, simply because people couldn't leave their home, which was, you know, causing people to be far from their jobs.
So in the same way COVID caused... right? That high rate of unemployment that we had under Trump's term. COVID also caused the global inflation that we saw onset at the beginning of the Biden-Harris administration. This didn't happen locally in the US.
This inflation happened all around the globe. But a fun fact here, the Biden-Harris administration actually ushered in the quickest response from the inflation onset by the pandemic out of any other country in the G7. I had another point.
Which one was that? Appreciate you for coming up, man. What I've noticed because I work in retail for some seasons and I've seen a huge flood shed of Colombians coming in.
Okay, we just got to be really realistic here about the economy. So yes, I think- think that kind of, you know, blaming causation and kind of correlating that to the current president, it's a little bit of a slippery slope. However, I think that when you look at the border and the way that everything has been coming in with migration, of course, that the economy became better. Why? Because a lot of Colombians came in, right?
And they started working and they started inputting more taxes. All these fake socials that they get, they start contributing to the tax money. They pay more taxes every year and the government basically hides this.
by grabbing an app and they basically use that as an ankle bracelet replacement so that people don't find out. Instead of putting an ankle bracelet on people's ankles, they hide the fact that they're allowing all these illegal immigrants come in. So the economy has become such a success per your statement that it's been a success in the last four years because all these immigrants have been contributing to the tax dollars that the government has been wanting. And so hence Medi-Cal.
So you'd agree that immigration is good for the economy? The immigration issue is being paid less money than the average salary. So I don't understand how that's good for the American people.
I think that if you can properly execute someone immigrating into this country legally and doing it rightfully and everything, like yes you can manage the amount of the amount of the way the economy is working. Yeah, I'm definitely a little bit confused on what you just shared with me but we have a problem and that is undocumented migration, correct? Yes.
This is another reason why I say Donald Trump doesn't care about the American people because Donald Trump doesn't care. Do you mind if I finish? Go ahead.
Because Donald Trump doesn't care about the southern border. I have a question for you. Okay.
If your house was burning down and a fire truck showed up to put the fire out and you told them to turn around because you wanted the insurance money from letting it burn, did you care about your house? Of course. No, so the idea would be, if you let the house burn down to get the insurance money, you wouldn't care about your house.
Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay, right? So when we have a crisis at the southern border and we have the firetruck, or in this case, right, an amazing border bill that would have ended the crisis years ago proposed to Congress by Lankford, a Republican endorsed, sorry, a Trump endorsed Republican, and then Donald Trump turns around and calls up the Republicans in the House and the Senate and tells them to vote against the bill because he doesn't want to give the Democrats a win and he wants the ability to be able to campaign on the crisis at the southern border now. Does Donald Trump care about the southern border?
Right. So basically what you're doing is you're trying to attack and kind of deflate the right, right? But at the end of the day, we got to realize that no side is potentially perfect because clearly the Democrats are going to see that the right are horrible and the right's going to see that the Democrats are also horrible. But do you mind answering the question there?
Because I did make an important point there. that I don't think should go unnoticed, right? In the same way in the hypothetical, if you let your house burn down and told the fire truck to turn away, you don't care about the house. And if Donald Trump lets the crisis at the Southern border continue and tells like the Republicans in the House and the Senate to turn the border bill around in 2022, he doesn't care about the Southern border.
Look, the border's always gonna have a crisis. There's human trafficking constantly. If you look at the narcotics, if you look at all these drug dealers that are coming in, right? Hi, thanks for coming up man.
What's your name? Jordan. Jordan, nice to meet you. Dean.
We have 3 minutes and 42 seconds left on the clock here. I would like to bring up a huge reason why I'd say that he doesn't care about the American people. Is that all right? Yeah.
Cool. It's because how much he lies. Donald Trump is an incessant, like, unapologetic liar.
He lied to the American public over 30,000 times while he was president. He told the biggest lie that any... President has ever told with the denial of the 2020 election and what is the Achilles tendon to a democracy an Uninformed voter base Trump has misled his voter base has made them misinformed has made them engage in fringe conspiracy conspiratorial hearsay by his incessant lies. Okay.
Can you give me any reasons why you think Joe Biden cares about American people more than Trump? Okay. I mean, yeah, sure. First of all, Kamala Harris is running for president right now. No, Joe Biden.
Joe Biden, sure. Yeah, because Joe Biden-He's the Democratic. Of course, of course.
Because Joe Biden passed four pieces of monumental legislation that benefited the low and the middle class more than it benefited the top 1%. We could talk about the PACT Act investing $800 million into the expansion of the- health care benefits. We could talk about the Chips and Science Act bringing 20% of the global chip reduction back to here at home in America by 2030. We could talk about the infrastructure bill, investing $1 trillion into local communities across the US, spurring their economies and creating new construction jobs.
Or we could talk about the Inflation Reduction Act, investing millions of dollars into renewable energy resources to reduce inflation in the long term by addressing supply chain issues now. Those are four big policies that I would say demonstrate Biden's care for the American people. Okay.
Four years ago under Trump, did you see benefits going towards immigrants and wars more than American people? Did we see? No, and we don't see that now either.
We don't see it now? No. Bro, I moved here from Chicago and four years under Trump, I wasn't seeing immigrants sleeping outside of police stations, gathered in gangs and doing drugs outside police stations, living in high-rise. hotels, getting benefits. Oh, if you're just, so there's, there's more immigrants coming into our country now than there was in the Trump term.
That's true. But earlier, didn't you say it was the same? Oh no.
I said it's the same right now. So after Biden's executive order on the border, we have the same amount of daily crossings today across our Southern border as we had at the end of Trump's term. At the end of Trump, it was more. Uh, yeah, it was the same or more at the end of Trump's term. You literally just said we have more immigrants coming in now.
Okay, so over the four-year presidency of Biden and Harris, there has been more migration across the southern border because of the revocal of Title 42. causing a surge of entries into our country. After Biden's executive order-That was not going on during Trump. Am I right?
Yeah, right. So we had lower crossings under Trump, but I don't think we could say because there's lower crossings under Trump than under Biden and Harris, that Biden and Harris caused that. Let me ask you a question or- or more so make a statement, I'd look at the southern border like a river, and I'd look at Title 42, what was enacted at the end of Trump's term because of COVID, like a dam.
As soon as that dam is lifted from the river, the water gushes through, just like when Title 42 was reversed and all these people that had been turned away for the last two years that are coming to our country because of economic disparities onset by COVID in their own, rushed into our country. Okay. Sorry, I just had to very quickly. The one thing that I look at that shows how he cares for the American people is that he's a multi-billionaire that chose to run for president and he's one of the only presidents that's net worth has actually gone down. didn't care for the American people, why would he even go out of his way, lose his worth to run for president?
Great question. And here's what I'd say. I'd say that Donald Trump has billions of dollars, literally speaking. He doesn't care about money. He wants something else.
He wants power, right? And being able to force himself into the highest position of ranking power in the world is a big deal. And that's what he wants.
He doesn't really care about the American people or else he would have enacted legislation for the low and middle class or else he would have not over tried to over. Before we go any further, we want to take a moment to say thanks so much to Stray Arrow News for powering the fact checks in this video. Stray Arrow News is an app and website that is on a mission to raise the bar on journalism in a time of media bias and mistrust.
Their team of journalists believe that unbiased news should be the standard and not just the exception, so they report down the middle with facts, delivering news without bias, filter, or spin. Plus, their Media Mist tool allows you to discover news that's being underreported, or not even reported at all, by different sides of mainstream media. media.
That's why we're so happy to be partnering with Stray Arrow News. The work they're doing gives us a complete picture of the news straight from our phones and tablets with their app. Go to san.com slash surrounded or click the link in the description to check it out.
By clicking that link, you're not just supporting this channel, you're also supporting a group of journalists that are raising the bar. ...on news and focusing on serving you unbiased straight facts. Thanks again to Straight Arrow News for partnering with us on this episode. Now, let's get into it. My next claim is Kamala Harris would be a much better president than Donald Trump.
I don't believe that Kamala Harris would be a better president than President Trump. And the reason why I believe that is because Kamala Harris has had many chances. When she was a district attorney in San Francisco, she convicted more people of minor crimes than any other DA of San Francisco.
And I know this too, because I lived in San Francisco for a period of time. And I understand the criminal justice system to a certain extent. So Kamala Harris, if you have her as president, She's going to go after people for minor offenses. She's going to try to convict people for even marijuana, for example. I mean, come on.
Most people in this country have already been past this whole issue with cannabis and everything. And I think that's something now that should be overlooked, and it should be something that should be legalized on a federal level as well. But I do believe that Kamala Harris, if she convicted people of small, petty stuff, like people having a minor amount of marijuana and had the highest conviction rate in San Francisco, How can you have someone like that as president? And she also was also married into the Getty family. Jean-Paul Getty is an elite family in the state of California.
So how is it that you're going to say, oh, Kamala Harris is better than President Trump? Of course. First, let's respond to a couple of your claims there.
How many people did she convict? Not a clue. Forty-five.
And what did she do in 2014? Forty-five. You're saying she convicted only 45 people of possession of marijuana. Yes, and what did she do?
That is not true. That is not true that she convicted only 45 people of marijuana. If she was a district attorney and she had other DAs in the district attorney's office...
Do you mind if I finish talking? ...prosecuting those small crimes... Okay, sir. Do you mind if I......she had more than 45 convictions in that office alone. So, yeah, she only had over...
You had a lot of time to talk. I mean, you had the whole time. I really don't have a lot of time here. But, so, what I'm saying is...
I just want to be able to finish this point out without... Go ahead. Go ahead. You said 45 convictions, but you're not giving me facts. Yeah, so yeah, so while she was DA, it is a f-Welcome in!
Hi! Hi. Um, so, do you mind if I give you my reasons why I think that Harris would be a better president? Um, if you want.
Cool. Um, yeah, so, there's two main categorical reasons why I say Harris would be better than Trump. The first category is character, the second category is- is policy. Let's start off with character. First of all, Trump is a sexual abuser, Trump is a felon, Trump is a fraudster, Trump is an election denier, he's a dictator on day one, want to be fascist, okay?
Kamala Harris is none of those. Kamala Harris wants to protect and preserve a democracy, she wants to fight for the freedoms of all Americans, especially the 170 million American women and girls, and then we could reference policy next. If you want to respond to character... Go for it.
If you want me to hop straight into policy, I can do that too. Well, you know, starting with character, I technically do not think she's a good person. Speaking of which, you know, if we're bringing up stuff from the past, we can say, she slept with Willie Brown, broke up a family just to get her job. And while she was there...
She used a firm that was putting people in jail that had false positives on drug tests. And she knew they had false positives. She admitted to that. And she was still putting mainly black and brown people in jail, considering I'm both.
That is very much a big issue for me. And also that women, a woman shouldn't represent. They should just sleep to the top for their job.
They should actually work hard for it. I generally don't think that she's a good representative. There's plenty of other women. Yeah, I have a question. How many votes did she get in a run for AG?
Do you know? How many votes does she get in a run? We're talking about character though. Of course. That's character and morals.
And if we're mentioning character and morals here, she's clearly not a good person. I'm responding to your claim. Just like you had mentioned all that stuff about Trump, which could be true. I'm referencing your claim that she slept to the top.
How many votes did she get when she was running for AG and DA in the state of California? But that has nothing to do with the fact that she slept to the top. It does.
She got 4.5 million votes in total. 80 million for her run for AG or DA. I don't remember which one. And 4.4 million for the other one. I have a question.
You're saying that she slept her way to the top. How many of those 4.5 million people that voted for her did she have to sleep with? Well, you know, obviously we're in California and this is pretty corrupt.
But to say that she needed the votes of most people that matter, which is the person she slept with, could actually overturn and hide these votes just like they did with the election. Listen, the idea that women have to sleep with men. to get into positions of power is a misogynistic lie. One moment. Do you mind if I finish talking real quick?
We have to open our legs to get jobs. That's exactly how she used it. Do you mind if I just finish talking real quick? Also, I would like to finish out this conversation. There's a lot of red flags up, though.
So saying that women have to sleep with men to get into positions of power is a misogynistic lie. I didn't say that. She just did that. One moment. That's what she represents.
That's all I'm saying, guys. What you are doing is you are taking Kamala Harris. You are taking Kamala Harris. Taking her character, you were taking her proposed policy, you were taking her intelligence, and you're taking her wisdom, and you're throwing it out of the window. Because when you say that the only reason she's in her position of power today is because she slept with a man that had been legally divorced for three years is a lie.
She got 4.5 million votes to get into AG and DA and slept with zero of them. The question I have for you is how do you feel about Donald Trump? Oh, you don't know that though. Do you know that? No.
Okay, so you think that she slept with 4.5 million people to get in her position of power? But the one person that she did was the most important person that she needed. Did you just say that she had to sleep with 4.5 million people? No, I didn't say that. I said that she slept with one of the most relevant people to get her job.
What was his name? Willie Brown. I just said that.
And how did sleeping with Willie Brown get her the 4.5 million votes in her run for AG&D? Because he was in the same position she needed to get there. But we have civil and electoral processes. We are a constitutional republic with democratic processes. Do you think that they honor those?
I don't think so. And you're saying that she somehow circumvented these civil electoral processes? I don't hate women guys, just letting you know.
Welcome down. I would really like to see if we could have a productive conversation about this point. Well, I just want to start off by saying that you seem to attack Trump for his character, but then when Kamala is attacked for her character, it's like... It doesn't matter. So why do you think that Kamala Harris is a bad person?
For reasons that have been stated. Can you repeat them? She's slept with people to get up to her ranking. She hasn't really done all too much as vice president, in my opinion. I would like to say that it's...
false. She's passed more tie-breaking votes in the Senate than any VP in American history. She's also helped the Biden-Harris administration influence some of the most monumental legislation in modern US history. I'm going to name four pieces of legislation that the Biden-Harris administration influenced to get passed that benefited the low and middle class more than rich people. And I want to see if you could do the same for Donald Trump while he was president.
They influenced the PACT Act, the Chips and Science Act, the American Rescue Plan, the infrastructure bill. in the Inflation Reduction Act. If you'd like, I could explain to you how those benefited the low and middle class more so than top 1%, but now I'll just simply ask you that same question. Can you name one bill that Trump influenced to get passed that benefited the low and middle class more so than rich people? I really can't.
So then how could you say that Kamala Harris hasn't done anything when you know so little about what Trump did while he was president? Because comparatively to what Trump has done in the past, she really hasn't done that much. I just told you four pieces of monumental legislation that- did influence to get passed that were beneficial. Beneficial, but not quite to what Trump did. Well, you can't even tell me what Trump did.
I asked you. I know, but you can just tell from when he was president that it was just, it was way better. And Cuomo has been hiding and probably puppeteering Biden, like you can't deny that. Do you see how that's just a conspiracy theory?
I know it's a conspiracy, but it's, the evidence is kind of there. Okay, so what's the evidence for this idea that Biden hasn't done anything for America? Sorry. Okay. That was smooth.
You just kind of slid into the seat. Thank you. Thank you. I think a lot of what we're hearing from you right now is just what I call book smart.
Like you probably are more knowledgeable than a lot of this. A lot of us on these policies and all that, that's not necessarily applicable to real life living. If we look at one of, in my opinion, one of the most important roles as a president is to keep our country safe. Kamala Harris, she's the border czar and she has completely failed at that.
She's let in millions and millions of illegal immigrants. and you've been asking us a lot of pointers. So I want to ask you, do you know what the average amount of fentanyl per pound that has come through during Biden's administration versus the Trump administration? No, I'd assume that it's much higher under the Biden-Harris administration.
Do you know what amount of drugs processed across the southern border are processed by U.S. citizens? But I'm talking about illegals right now. So I asked you a question.
So during Trump's administration, there was on average about 2500 pounds of fentanyl that came across the border. In my opinion, that's 2500 pounds too much. Yeah, during the Biden and Harris administration. It's exceeding 14,000 pounds per year.
Where do you think that's going? That's going to our youth. That's going to high schoolers, college students. That's going to adults.
These innocent people are dying because of what is happening. And if you look at her, I think. think it was just this past month, they just admitted that they have lost over 300,000 illegal children.
Where do you think these children are going? They're trafficked. And I'm extremely passionate about human trafficking. I think it's one of the most important focuses that we need to have right now. And in my opinion, again, and in my experience within human trafficking, the conservatives are the ones pushing this.
Kamala is ignoring it. Kamala is not the one going to visit the border. She went and visited the border.
She went to the only part of the border. That is. Safe that they're not coming through and she said we don't have a problem here.
Nobody's coming through. That's BS She's lying and you say Trump's lie. I hate all kinds of lies But when you can say Trump's an avid liar, you got to look at how common those line during her speech at the DNC last Week, she was saying that those individuals at January 6 were armed individuals with an intention of shooting people in the Capitol That is not true.
So I can admit where Trump has lied in the past Everybody lies. That's not good. But you also need to have the balls to admit where Kamala has lied, where Biden has lied, where their administration has lied.
Yeah. So first of all, I think that it is important to hold all politicians, everybody in a position of power accountable. I'm not going to sit here and say that Biden has never lied a day in his life. I'm not going to sit here and say that Harris has never lied.
a day in his life. I can't confirm that Harris said that at the DNC or said that at the southern border. But if she did say those things, yes, those would be lies.
Now, you want to talk about this. Wouldn't that be a question of her character then? Yeah, of course.
But what I'm voting for here isn't going to be the candidate that doesn't lie at all. It's going to be the candidate that lies less within this respect. And no one lies more than Donald Trump.
So back to our conversation. Why do you believe that character affects somebody's, I guess, impact as a leader? Yeah, sure, because I think when we're voting for someone, when we have a leader, right, this isn't just someone who's going to try to impact our lives in good ways through policy, but it's also someone that we'd want to be ourselves.
We are championing, or sorry, we are championing these two people, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. We want to see virtue. Reflected in them that we would also like reflected in us and when we're platforming Donald Trump He's been held civilly liable for sexual abuse has sexualized a fifth grader on CBS 1992 has cheated on three of his wife's one with a porn star and was convicted of 34 felonies and tried to stage a coup to overthrow through our government, we don't see those good virtues reflected. You said you wanted to talk about the border.
Do you mind if I ask you a question about that? Go for it. Phenomenal.
So Biden and Harris, they attempted to influence bipartisan border legislation in 2023. It was Lankford's bill, who was a Republican that was also Trump endorsed. This was a good border act. It would have phenomenally reduced the impact of the crisis.
It would have reduced crossings. It would have made the asylum seeking processes quicker. It was a good bill. But what happened was Trump called the Republican.
in the House and the Senate and told them to vote against it. How can you say that Donald Trump cares about the southern border when he told Republicans in Congress to vote against this bill so the crisis would continue and he could campaign on that today to convince people like you to vote for him? Real quick, everybody. So during Trump's administration, in exchange for $25 million to build a border wall that would protect our country, he had an act that he wanted to pass that would allow illegal immigrant children that have graduated throughout high school to be accepted through citizenship.
Am I answering my question? No, because you're just asking education policy questions. This isn't impacting America.
So compared to your-How else do presidents impact America apart from policy and executive orders? Trump wanted to pass this law that would give these graduating illegal immigrants citizenship. Guess who shut it down? The Biden and Harris administration. How?
They voted against it. The Biden and Harris administration? Yes.
Hello. Howdy, welcome back. Okay, so you keep bringing up the border and you keep bringing up the Senate bill. Lankford's bill, absolutely. The Senate bill never passed.
You want to know why? What did pass was H.R. 2, which again has been sitting on Schumer's desk, which actually closed the border.
Talking to Brandon Judd, president of Border Patrol, what I can tell you is the Senate bill... Was better than what it is now with 14,000 people coming through the border every day and 300,000 migrant children missing, feared sold into sex slavery. Now, H.R.
2 did close the border, and that is the one that actually passed the House that Schumer has ignored. So I'm really sick of hearing, oh, Trump stopped the Senate bill. The Senate bill didn't pass.
You know why? Because it was a bad bill. It codified the invasion. Okay, so first of all, no, it was not a bad bill. And second of all, the reason it didn't pass is because Trump called the Republicans in Congress and told them not to pass it.
Right? We see once again, do you mind if I finish without interruption? Congress does not vote on Senate bills.
Yes, we would see that Senate, like if a bill is made in the Senate, it'd go to the House, back to the Senate. Exactly, and it never made it out of the Senate. So therefore, it's mute void.
It went to the House, right? No, it never made it out of the Senate. I talked to Senator Mike Lee about that. It never got out of the Senate because it was a bad bill.
However, HR2 did get out of the House. And with all due respect, you don't want to hear about HR2 that actually secured the election. I would love to hear about HR2. However, I would also like to finish what I was saying about... Well, everybody's heard for the last 19 minutes what you had to say about this.
Okay, I got a minute. As far as Kamala Harris being better than Trump. She's destroyed the border. She's been absent. Nobody knows where she is.
Six months ago, even the media was saying she was the worst vice president in history. How has she destroyed the border? She hasn't done anything about it.
They have walked away. She hasn't gone there. She hasn't talked to Border Patrol.
She hasn't met with Border Patrol. Okay, I'm confused because the last person that came up said that she had gone there. Now you're saying that she has-An hour from San Antonio after she met with Lester Holt and Lester Holt said you haven't been to the border. She goes, I haven't been to Europe either.
So that was in September 2021. So that's who we're talking about. So that was in June of 2021. She went in July 2021. So Kamala Harris-I would like to preface here that the Biden administration has passed an executive order on the border. Because it's an election year.
And we're now at lower daily costs today than we were after the Trump's term. Because it's an election year. That's the only reason.
Yes, it is. And no, it's not just because it's an election term. They do it every election year. They tried to influence Lankford's bill. through the Senate, through the House.
It was a bad bill. Then Trump called them and told them to shut down. It never left the Senate. If you were starving, it never left the Senate.
One second, ma'am. No, you one second. We've got six seconds.
We're not gonna get— Okay, I just—I feel like I can't get anywhere with you. Well, I feel like I can't get anywhere with you because you— So how do we find middle ground? We do that by allowing each other to speak without interruption. I'm willing to do that for you.
Are you willing to do that for me? Super fun. My next claim is conservatives don't actually care.
Yeah, so I don't agree with that at all whatsoever. Us conservatives, main core issue is caring about family, keeping the family unit together. Do you mind if I ask you a question? Yeah, of course, go ahead. So then why do you turn around and champion Donald Trump, who's cheated on three of his wife's, one with a porn star, and has ongoing civil litigation against him in which he was determined that he was guilty of sexual abuse?
That's something that's very personal and you have to have been there in order to know what exactly goes on. Marriages are very tough. There's something... that's something that's very difficult. And again, it's, we don't know what happened, you know?
Yeah, he has filled marriages, but many people have filled marriages. Okay. Do you mind if I ask you another question? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.
So you said that you really care about the family unit. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
I don't see how like any conservative or Trump supporter could say that they care about the family unit, uh, because of how hard y'all fight for pro-life legislation. So, uh, voting for pro-life legislation without good reason, what this leads to is the destruction of the family unit. You're shifting the American. focus away from financially well-off adults that consent to start a family that desire to have kids to forcing 18, 19, 20-year-old boys and girls into starting a family because the state isn't allowing the woman the access to health care that she deserves.
It leads to higher rates of poverty. It leads to lower rates of employment, lower rates of education. education and lower qualities of life, all things considered.
Another point would be, right, conservatives stance on being anti-IVF, right? I think that IVF serves as a savior for family units that are wanted to be by many of American citizens. Your first point of being for pro-life is that is a human life.
That is a child in and of itself. I always hear constantly the argument of, you know, if men were the ones having babies, then it would be a different situation. Maybe. But that's not the case.
The case is that women are the ones that bear children, and that is a life unto itself. And therefore, it is deserving of its own human rights and its own human life. And you brought up many points, which I repeat for me. so I can yeah yeah of course if you uh feel free to like you know cut me off if I'm talking too fast or if you want me to slow down yeah yeah of course points you know I want to make sure that we could try to have oh yeah yeah me too my other points were being anti-IVF I think that IVF allows right American citizens to start a family when they wouldn't uh otherwise be able to being anti-IVF prevents them from starting a family another point would be being anti-LGBTQ plus saying that you care about family values unless it's two men or unless it's two women and then it's morally abominable uh and then yeah the third point would be just champion Donald Trump who's cheated on three of his wife's one with a porn star, has sexualized little girls, and has been held civilly liable for sexual abuse.
So on one hand I kind of agree with you because I don't think that the average conservative cares about family enough but I would say that conservatives care a lot more about the family unit than liberals and people on the left especially. like it was brought up when it comes to the pro-life issue, when it comes to promoting the whole LGBT, like all of these things are generally anti-family and liberals are also generally very individualistic while conservatives have... always been more on the side of conserving the family unit. Okay, I don't, I would strongly disagree that liberals are going to be more individualistic. I mean, like, you know, if we just look at Trump and the policy he passed while he was president, can you name one policy he influenced to get passed that benefited the low or the middle class more so than the top 1%?
I don't know the hassle. When I'm speaking about individualistic on the terms of economics, yes, I would say conservatives are more individualistic, as in we're not socialists, we're not wanting to redistribute wealth. Socialists. Real quick, can you... define socialism for me?
When I'm speaking about socialism, I'm talking about the redistribution of wealth and like promoting the welfare system. Okay. So I mean, socialism like is just a mode of production. So it just has to do with the workers owning the means of production.
The only reason like I'm pointing this out is because... because I feel like MAGA, Republicans, conservatives as a whole, have really misconstrued socialism, communism, et cetera. But one last question for you here.
You said that promoting the LGBTQ plus community is anti-family. How so? Because, for instance, I mean, conservatives and people on the right have more...
Okay. Hello sir, nice to meet you. Hey, nice to meet you too.
You've been excited to come up here. Oh yeah, this one. I think this one's interesting. So first, I also wanted to know why you think Democrats are better at supporting family values than conservatives. Of course, great question.
So first of all, we look at this from like an economic... perspective. I'd say caring for the low and middle class, promoting social benefits.
A good example would be the child tax credit. Kamala Harris wants to raise that to $6,000 for every newborn. They're going to vote me out soon. I'm going to make my point, then they're going to vote me out. I'm going to go.
Give me one second, guys. Give me one second. I think what's really interesting, and I wanted you to- Bring it up, but I'm just gonna bring it up again. You were talking about when to start a family. I think that's really interesting.
I think the choice to start a family is when you have sex. Personally, and you know, someone will probably be more informational than me about this, but I think that having sex is when you take that risk, if you want to call it that, take that risk of starting a family. It's your responsibility to become a parent, become a father, a mother.
And I think, I forgot what it was, IBF, is that what you said? That helps, is that what? help with abortion, is that correct?
No, IVF is in virtue of fertilization, right? This allows certain partners who wouldn't be able to conceive naturally to still have a child. And I would like to respond to your claim there about this idea that engaging in sex is when you commit to starting a family.
That's a great reason why I think conservatives don't actually care about family values. We know that our youth will continuously engage in intercourse. We know that we will see people that do this for fun outside of the context of wanting to start a family. I'd say, right, pushing the traditional value that, you know, sex leads to a kid and you're obligated to that, you have to deal with the consequence, right, is antithetical to caring about family values because when you do that, you force unwanted children into unready households. I had more.
Okay. Howdy. Hi.
So the claim that you're saying about conservatives not caring about family values, let's kind of backtrack a little bit because Donald Trump himself, I think he's kind of a new wave of republicanism and a lot of people kind of seem to forget that. So conservatives, yes, the old republican party, they did see that the old-fashioned traditional values maybe were not ideal for certain family dynamic situations that you're claiming, you know. Gay, lesbian, whatever.
But I think the Republican Party has definitely changed its viewpoint and its value system quite a little bit. And now with laws and legislations, I can pretty much guarantee you that almost every Republican in this room would not be opposed to LGBT rights and people marrying people of the same sex. So that's one claim.
And then if we want to talk about family values, the Democrats, they tend to hypersexualize children a lot in Hollywood. I work in the entertainment industry and I constantly see many investors constantly pushing for these rhetorics and there's nothing to be said about it. And unfortunately, I'm exposing myself a little bit by just saying this because it's very controversial for me to work in an industry that's constantly fighting for children to consistently be human trafficked in Hollywood.
I have so many friends that have tried to be sexualized under this propaganda and it's really saddening. You know, I can agree because I used to be a liberal myself. So I can side with you on certain things, but you know my mother who grew up in a very democratic vision, she herself also views that abortion is very sinful and it's unfortunate.
I can agree with you on the fact that people should have a right to their own body, and we're not saying that they shouldn't. That's why, hence Donald Trump did state many times that the state should be involved with those legislations and not himself. In situations such as people who are raped and all of those nuances, you know, it's...
Yes, go ahead. So just a quick question about abortion. Do you agree with giving the states the ability to legislate on that?
Well, we give the states legislation on many things. So you do agree. So do you think that abortion is murder?
I think it is because... So do you think that we should leave murder up to the states? Well, I think leaving the murder cases up to Democrats is a little appalling. If you look at the crime rates that are happening with all these children being killed and murdered constantly...
You know, Catholics believe that when you kill a child, you know, that's basically the ultimate mortal sin. And there are many sins that we can discuss. Donald Trump having affairs, yes. Nobody's denying all those cases.
But at the end of the day, the biggest mortal sin that we talk about in the Bible is killing another human. So a human who has a heartbeat in the womb, yes. I'm not opposed to people having the right to their body.
But I think at the end of the day, you know, if you were to ask yourself if God was real, You better hope and wish that he isn't because you go to heaven and he asks you why you killed all those humans. It's compared to genocide with Hitler. Here's my thoughts on that. So first of all, like, I don't want to, like, tell you that your religion is false, that it's not my goal. In fact, that's not what I'm going to do.
Of course not. I want to take a different approach, right? So I'd say that Christianity is inherently faith-based, right?
It's something that you can't justify outside of your own faith. It's something that has a lot of philosophical... issues, right? It's something that, you know, exists in a realm apart from, you know, how we would conventionally justify policy that we'd want to pass. Say when we're justifying economic policy, you know, we'd evaluate its outcomes.
We'd look at what it costs to the people and we'd use that information, that empirical evidence to justify if it's good or bad. But when you legislate on the basis of your faith, it doesn't allow you that room because you're just kind of using like your speculatory beliefs to justify the legislation. Correct.
And I'd say one last thing. Here right during like antebellum air slavery here home in the US We saw Christian nationalists using like Leviticus 25 verses 44 through 46 of the Bible to justify the enslavement of black people at the time Taken away their rights. So my question to you would be what is the logical?
difference between Christians 200 years ago using the Bible to justify the enslavement of black people and a Christian today using the Bible to take away access to health care from women. I don't think we could think of a logical distinction there. And that's why I'd say faith is best to be practiced in the confines of your own home and your own life. So then why did Gavin Newsom ban people from practicing and praying in their own home during the Biden administration? Gavin Newsom locked everyone down, fined them $900 just for practicing their religion.
There are many people in Pasadena. There is a Pasadena church locally, and they were fined $900. Gavin Newsom prioritized gyms, facilities, recreational centers, and Catholic nuns were describing their distress over this.
So what happened to freedom of speech? What happened to democracy? Because clearly you guys are constantly promoting that, right?
But it seems like it's a communistic approach to our society. Okay, can you define communism for me real quick? Communism is someone who constantly dictates what's happening and they average out everyone for the minority, for the majority.
Everyone has to have the same houses. I mean you look at Cuba, everybody has to have the same houses. If you go to a Latin American country, they are not pro-abortion. They are not. Okay.
So real quick, that's not what communism is. Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society. Right. And like, once again, right, this rhetoric from a right, just kind of calling anything that they don't like communism just kind of reminds me of the red scare. Well, it's the same way with Democrats.
When you don't like something, you tend to attack the right because you hate everything they go for. The LGBTQ communities, they are constantly promoting propaganda. Listen, Democrats, Democrats are constantly pushing for the right.
For openness and acceptance with the LGBTQ community and many organizations and then guess what? As soon as you go against the rhetoric, as soon as you believe in God, all these LGBT communities are... yes, okay.
Thank you for the conversation. Welcome back. Yeah.
Actually, let me check your email real quick because I didn't last time. Of course. There's a lot of different claims, different topics that was on this exact question.
But one thing I do want to state from the beginning is this debate is Democrats versus Republicans. not Trump versus whoever they have in office, Kamala or whatever. So I really want to focus on Republican policies that have been pushed throughout history to now and not separate things that two individuals say.
So I want to go on to abortion because abortion was taught. talked about a lot when it comes to family values. Yeah.
I really don't think if a party is pushing for adoption to raise a child versus murder, that's not shying away from family values. It's not against family values. Because if that was really true, how come in pretty much every single state to date, if somebody is to term or carrying a child and they get murdered, it's a double murder. It's not a single murder, it's a double murder.
Sure. So if the judicial system... If the judicial system looks at it that way, shouldn't abortion be looked at the same way?
Or is it based on the person deciding, oh, yeah, I could kill somebody or not? Yeah, I could explain that to you. So first of all, I would like to tell you why I'm pro-choice.
That's because I don't value a unicellular life form that doesn't have the ability to display first-person subjective experiences. I don't value the fetus until it has that ability. That comes at about 20 through 24 weeks. But now that we got that out of the way, you do ask a great question. How can I say that abortion isn't murder?
Then turn around and support. legislation that would like, you know, allow someone that kills a mother that is pregnant to be charged with double homicide. Well, I could tell you through an analogy.
Let's say you have a car. What kind of car do you drive? I drive a Malibu. You drive a Malibu.
Okay. So if you go up to your Malibu, I mean, after we're done debating here and you break the windshield, did you do anything wrong? I mean... No, it's your car.
It's your property. You can make that decision. It depends on what view you look at it. Well, I mean, let's think about it this way. If you go up to your car and you consent to breaking your car's windshield...
you didn't do anything wrong there. You have a right to do that. But if someone else just walking down the street goes up and breaks your car's windshield without your consent, did they do something wrong? So, I mean, if you, if you, if you, okay, for example, let's say this. If I go out on the street right now.
Wait, do you mind just answering my question so I can explain this analogy to you? Go ahead, go ahead. So if someone else like walking up the street breaks your car's windshield without your consent, did they do something wrong? I agree, yeah. And that's the same way I think about, right, the right to an abortion.
I would define murder as the unjustified termination of a human being's life. And I'd say it is justified with- when the mother would do it, as she would have the right to as the fetus is presiding within your uterus, but if some non-consenting third party walks up and unalives her and the fetus within her room without her consent, that is unjustified. Come on, man.
All right, so I think your first claim, you were saying that because Donald Trump has this past and this history, that therefore he's anti-family, and then therefore the entire Republican base is anti-family? Is that your argument? I'd like to make two corrections here. Sure.
So first of all, that's not like... the only reason why I'd say this. It's just like one of many.
It's one of your arguments. And then second of all, I wouldn't say that every conservative ever on the face of planet Earth doesn't actually care about family values for this reason. I'd just say that this is going to be typically true.
Okay. So you think just because Donald Trump is the Republican candidate that therefore typically conservatives or Republicans are anti-family? Well, I'd say the consideration of who the Republican Party is championing, Donald Trump, a consideration of like the consequences of pro-life legislation. while not having good reason to write that legislation in the first place, along with being anti-IVF and anti-LGBTQ plus are going to be for good reasons. Right.
So, okay. So let's look at Democrats then. Okay.
Are you going to say that Democrats are anti-family because they elected someone like Bill Clinton and he cheated on Hillary with Monica Lewinsky? Like, is that, you know, cause I think if you are going to say that Trump makes the Republicans anti-family, You're going to have to say the same thing about Democrats and some of the candidates that they've elected. Not necessarily. I think if like Bill Clinton.
Hey, let him talk. Let him talk. When Democrats voted for Bill Clinton, did they know, like, because they had a crystal ball, that he was going to end up cheating on his wife with Monica Lewinsky? No, they didn't.
But when you're going to vote for Trump in November, do you have the prior knowledge that he cheated on three of his wife? He sexualized a little girl on an interview with CBS in 1992. Yes, but also Democrats voted not to impeach him, right? So aren't all the Democrats in the House that voted to not impeach him now anti-family?
Well, first of all, I gave you four considerations why I'd say that the conservative voter base is going to be anti-family. That's going to be one. But I would say that, yes, the Democrats in Congress— Well, right, we have to look at one argument at a time.
Well, I mean, I wouldn't say that, yeah, this alone is necessary in saying that all conservatives are anti-family. I'd say it's one of the considerations. I would say that yeah, like the Democrats in Congress that didn't elect to impeach like Bill Clinton probably didn't do the right thing there But then additionally I'd say even when we look at legislation from the Democratic platform versus the Republican one I mean the Democratic platform wants to federally protect all women and girls'right to access abortion. That's going to make sure that unwanted kids aren't placed into unready households. The Democrat platform wants to raise the child tax credit to $6,000.
Right. So, I mean, you're being pushed on this argument, and then you're just bringing up other arguments. You're not actually addressing my claims. But additionally, I don't think you can say, oh, just because I'm going to vote for this candidate because I like their policies.
means I'm therefore anti-family. And I think you have a lot of Republicans, myself included, that are very pro-family and that, you know, want those things and are disgusted by Trump's previous behavior. But that's not our voting philosophy.
Our voting philosophy is based off of... policies and what we think are going to be best for the country. That doesn't mean we don't have disagreements with Trump and his personal life. And I think with literally any candidate, you're going to have disagreements on different policies that they like and different personal behaviors and actions in their life. That does not mean...
that therefore I'm anti-family because I'm going to vote for Donald Trump. Well, here's the way I'd put it. I don't see how you could call yourself pro-family, turn around, platform Donald Trump with his anti-family past, cheated on three of the wives, won with a porn star, and vote for his legislation that in turn is anti-family as well.
But again, I just said that's not our voting philosophy. You said that you voted on the context of policy, but this is also considering the policy that he wants to enact. Thanks for the conversation, man.
My next claim is, Democrats are more patriotic than Republicans. Thanks. I'm going to be quick.
Hello, sir. I would love to talk to him. Hey, welcome back down.
Okay, just for everyone's sake, I want you to tell me why you support your claim. And then I'll leave and people can yap at you. Okay.
Thank you. You're welcome. I like this guy. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate that. So yeah, I think that Democrats are more patriotic than Republicans because Republicans are currently platforming Donald Trump. And Donald Trump had like attempted to launch a coup on our federal government in an attempt. to overturn and rig the results of the 2020 election, and there's four reasons I say this. The first reason I say this is Donald Trump capitalized on the January 6th riots to pressure Senate in to postpone the vote.
The second reason I say this is because Donald Trump sent fake slates of electorates to seven different states to cast fake certificates of ascertainment into college to be certified as real by Mike Pence. The third reason I say this is because, well, he pressured Mike Pence into ...to signing those fake certificates of ascertainment. And the fourth reason I say this is, well, this process of trying to circumvent our civil and electoral processes and literally trying to rig the outcome of the 2020 election is a direct threat and attack on our government and on our democracy.
And it is ignoring the voice of... of every single American citizen that voted in the 2020 election. You and everybody around this room and anybody at home, if you voted in the 2020 election, Trump tried to make your vote null by installing fake certificates of ascertainment to make himself the president again. And that is the worst internal attack that we have had on our country since the Civil War.
Okay, I don't agree, but you guys can vote me out now. Nice to meet you. Okay, so really bold, clear statement that Democrats are very patriotic. Let's talk about the actions of the Democrats being very glorious and loving our country. Well, I would like to clarify.
Yeah, clarify please. My claim is not that Democrats are very... patriotic, it is that they are more patriotic than Republicans, but I apologize for interrupting you. Okay, no, but I would like clarity on what are those actions, because in my understanding of Democrats being very patriotic is destroying the nuclear family, burning down flags, burning down buildings. I mean, we see just destruction in our cities.
Did you like see the trash and all the homelessness going out in LA? What is patriotic about supporting all of that? What is patriotic about supporting all the drugs that are coming in, all the things that we're allowing, the human sex trafficking, allowing all these things and policies going on?
Like what is patriotic about that? What screams I love America of people? You said that Democrats support, right?
No, no. I'm just asking like, what are the patriotic? patriotic acts that show?
Because what patriotism means to me is kneeling for those who have sacrificed for our country. My father has served 30 years in the military, right? That is 30 years that he is not getting back, that he has fought for his country, laid down his life for.
What is patriotic that the Democrats are doing that are saying, hey, I'm going to lay my life down and not be egotistic and individualistic, and I'm going to serve and look out for others, look out for the next generation? What is that? So that's what I'm asking, to make that statement clear. clear. What does that look like at the Democratic Party?
I actually think that's a great question. And the answer to your question would be a fight to protect and preserve the state of our democracy. I think that you listed off a whole cohort of claims there that were typically engaged in by Democrats that have been anti-patriotic, such as burning the flag, such as burning down buildings in the riots.
And I agree with you, right? I think that those are clear displays of anti-patriotic behaviors. Do I necessarily disagree with them all the time? No, I don't think that it's wrong to burn the American flag if it's in protest of actions of the American government. But But my claim here is, is that there's nothing less patriotic than supporting Donald Trump, a man that has already tried to destroy our country internally by overthrowing the results or sorry, attempting to overthrow the results of the 2020 election.
Okay. I completely understand that statement. I don't agree with that, but we're not talking about Donald Trump. We're talking about your statement that Democrats are patriotic. So I'm asking about the actions are what, because we can keep tying in Kamala and Donald into this, but that they are not the reason of being a conservative or a Democrat.
It's the morals. It's the values and the actions. you are reflecting, that you're consuming.
Of course, I understand you. And the morals and the values and the actions reflected, the morals... What are those that you are doing as a Democrat, as a liberal, what are you reflecting that's benefiting your country? Of course, of course, great question.
Because these socialism policies, these individualism policies, these, oh, I want to consume these egotistic policies, these, oh, you should worship in closed doors in proximity, don't open the Bible in school, don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, all these things that we see... Okay, do you mind if I respond? No, yes, just let me clarify. We'll finish real quick.
So all these things that we see, we're being forced as conservatives to shut that down. to be quiet, to be banned. So how are we talking about free speech, freedom of religion, loving, and all this stuff?
These are all things that you guys are proclaiming, but... Yeah, so do you agree with freedom of religion? Of course.
So then you wouldn't agree with Trump's attempted Muslim ban. Again, we're not talking about Trump. I'm asking for policies talking about how our Democrats really patronize...
Yeah, sure, let's go over them. So first, I think that fighting for the freedoms of all 170 million American women by reinstituting federal protections for access to health care... that's going to be caring about the-So abortion. I think that, yes.
I think that fighting-Okay. Just want to make that clear. I'm sorry.
I just want to make that clear because there's a lot of-Okay, do you mind if I finish? To do that? No, I just wanted to make that clear so I'm on the same page.
You can continue. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I obviously think being in a room surrounded by 20 conservatives, you're not going to look at access to abortion as healthcare. I think-No, I'm sorry. Continue.
No worries. This is a- You want a good, fruitful dialogue? Let's continue. I'm apologizing.
I just... Yeah, and I understand that there's going to be an ideological separation there, but from my side of the aisle, I absolutely think that this is something that should be federally protected. I think that infringing upon women's right to bodily autonomy, bodily integrity, all because they want to preserve the life of a non-sentient...
Sorry, a multicellular life form that doesn't... Did your mom think... Thought that about you? She was about to... She thought that you were just some cells?
My mom, when I was where? I mean, it doesn't care whether she thought I was that. So you were just a bunch of cells. That's what you're just believing in your claim.
Well, I mean, well, my particular claim was the reason why I'm pro-choice is because I don't value the life of a uni or a multi-celled life form. But you have life. That doesn't have the ability to work consciousness. So you get to make that change.
You get to make that choice by having life. And someone that doesn't have that voice to say like, oh, that's just a bunch of cells, just abort it. Where does that, where does that stand? How is that patriotic?
How is that? Loving America. Yeah, because it protects access to health care, it protects the population. Killing babies. One moment.
Killing children. Okay. Okay, so do you think abortion is murder?
Yes. Okay, so do you think that-I'm making that statement very clear. Okay. So do you think that some women with IUDs are murderers then?
Because it is the case in some contexts, an IUD will allow for conception to occur, meaning there's a unique human life there, but then it will implant, it will, you know, it will prevent its implantation into the uterine lining, killing it? I... don't support or believe in any of that.
To be fair, that wasn't the question I asked you. I asked you if they were murderers. I have no comment on that. Well, didn't you just say that abortion was murder because it was killing a unique human life?
Yeah, yeah. IUDs can and do kill unique human life. So wouldn't this make women with IUDs murderers?
Well... I, again, have no comment on that. Okay, well see, now I can just reflect everything you were just asking me back to you. Yeah, 100%, but you're not gonna answer the question that I have asked you about, again, how are these actions going to be more patriotic with America? I'd like to make a clear for the record that you've been at a common...
that because you knew that that was the same. You get it that you support killing babies. Okay, good. We're going to talk about IED.
Let's move on forward. What other actions have you seen that the Democratic Party has just showed? Again, I love America.
Of course, right? Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Oh, I'm so sorry. She wasn't going. Chivalry?
Not bad. So you said that Democrats are more patriotic than Republicans? Yes, because-So, I would like to hear.
So how would you describe the epic failure with the Biden administration? And how would you see it- as being patriotic in the way that we left Afghanistan. Well, if you want to reference her Afghanistan pullout as not being patriotic, well, we should blame that on Trump because he's the one that organized the pullout.
That's actually wrong. He didn't. He didn't.
I know the lawyers that worked with JAG for that. operation. And it was a long strategic pullout over the course of several years. It was the Biden administration that booked when they were going to leave. It was their operation with the military complex under Austin that pulled that out.
It was an epic failure. So are you agreeing that it was a failure? Okay. Well, I mean, if you seemingly know more than me about the pullout from Afghanistan, as far as I'm aware, that was organized under Trump's administration. Do you see giving the Qatari embassy to the Taliban as patriotic?
Well, I would like to. to just finish off here real quick. So you seemingly know more than me about our pullout from Afghanistan. I was under the impression-Do you see what happened at Bagram Air Force Base as patriotic? Okay, ma'am.
Do you mind if I finish? Is that fine? We'll see. We'll see.
See if I can interrupt you. Go ahead. Okay. Well, just what I had hoped to say there was you seemingly know more than me about our pullout out of Afghanistan. It was one of the largest events that happened after Biden took office and also one of, what I would consider one of the worst and most humiliating- humiliating for America.
Okay. Well, if I'm not, if I can't like finish my statements, I don't see how we're going to be able to have productive conversation. Do you, do you know how many people are left? American citizens are left in Afghanistan? I do not know how many American citizens are left in Afghanistan.
Do you, are you familiar with any of the planes that have gone back to try and pull some of these people out? Do you know who's operating those planes? Do you know that the federal government isn't doing that, that it's nonprofit organizations and that a lot of those nonprofit organizations were grounded in other countries and not allowed to enter in? Okay.
Okay, so... For blood operations? All right, let's look at the blood... So, patriotically, so patriotically speaking... I mean, if I can't speak...
Is that something that's patriotic to you? Is leaving someone behind patriotic? Okay, well, if you will allow me to speak without...
I'm waiting for you. Yeah, yeah. You're very quick with everybody else. Come on. If you will allow me to speak without interruption, we'll be able to have a hopefully productive conversation.
Come on. Point. Okay.
Let's go. Well, seriously, I'm not going to be able to make a point if you keep interrupting me. Like, that's just like... No, you're stalling.
You're stalling. Make your point. Was it patriotic?
Okay, dude. Yes or no. Was that patriotic for you? Okay. Were you embarrassed?
Okay, I'm not going to be able to give you a yes or no answer. I'm going to have to give you a fleshed out answer. I will address your point if you could...
A fleshed out answer? You don't have a yes or no on patriotism? Leaving. Okay, so if you will— The war that we spent over 20 years fighting?
You're still not allowing me to talk here. Do you mind if I finish— I'm waiting. Yes or no?
Well, it's not a yes or no question. I have to give you a full answer. It is a yes or no question. I asked you yes or no.
It's very direct. Yes or no. Okay, so what you're trying to do is you're trying to force me into a yes or no question when I can't even respond to the claims that you've made.
Was it patriotic? No, you're dancing around the question because you don't want to answer it because it's going to make you look bad. So if the Afghanistan— It was not patriotic.
I think any American citizen can tell that it was not patriotic. It made us look bad. It was embarrassing. We all had doubts on what was gonna happen under this administration. Just based on that alone.
And the fact that we still have people there, that's embarrassing. Okay. All right. So if the Afghanistan pullout were to have occurred as a way that you described it, it would have been anti-patriotic. It would have been bad.
13 service members lost their lives. I don't think that they deserve to do that. I'm under the impression that Donald Trump had organized that pullout while he was president. Never. It was executed under the Biden-Harris administration.
Nope. You're saying that's false. We'll leave it up to the fact checkers. No, Jack.
Jack attorneys operated that. And they didn't use it. Yo, hey, please.
Yo. Let me finish. Let me finish. Please. I've.
Oh. So sorry for cussing. You can cut that out. Please just allow me to finish here.
That's not patriotic. Okay, so I would still say that attempting to overthrow our federal government with the use of a coup to rig an election would be less... What would you say to somebody... Hey, welcome down.
How you doing? Okay, so I feel like a lot of what this question is holding is what isn't the best for the American people, right? Yes.
And like what is the most patriotic thing? I like that. And I feel like a lot of what has been...
discuss today, because I've heard it and a lot of people have said it is, and then what you have addressed a lot is you don't think Trump is the best candidate, right? And then on top of that, I feel like the problem is with a lot of people right now is... there's a lot of issues, a lot of hot topics, a lot of things that we could go over.
And I think the problem is, is when we're thinking about what is the best thing for the American people, a lot of the past four years have gone astray and gone to garbage. Okay. And would you be able to demonstrate to me, like, how you think the Biden and Harris administration has negatively impacted your life or the lives of other American citizens? I feel like there's a lot of agendas that you've clearly want to talk about. about agendas, but in terms of like how they did, well, patriotically, let's talk about what happened in Hawaii.
Like Trump supported a lot, or sorry, not Trump, Biden spent more money with Ukraine than what was happening in burning people in Hawaii. Do you know why? And then on top of that, sorry.
Do you know why we've sent money to Ukraine? Why we sent money to Ukraine? Because of the Budapest memorandum.
We signed a denuclearization agreement with you. Billions of dollars to people that are not even Americans. I can tell you why.
Oh, yeah, okay. So that's because of the Budapest memorandum that we signed with them in the 1990s, stating if they give up their nukes, we'll defend them from a foreign entity if they're invaded. That's what they did.
Us sending Ukraine funding and weapons is nothing more than the U.S. upholding our contractual end of an agreement that we made in the 90s. Okay, well it looks like you are going to be finishing the episode off. We have 30 seconds on the clock. I'm not going to be able to respond to anything that you say, so take it away. Yeah, one thing that you said about patriotism, I mean, I go to Trump rallies and I see people holding up American flags versus if you go to a Democrat convention, you see nobody holding up an American flag.
Maybe like one person or two people there will hold up an American flag. So patriotism to me is being proud of being American, being proud to be from this country, like I'm proud for being in this country. My family escaped communism from Cuba and they came here for a better opportunity in loving America and that's what patriotism is about.
I appreciate you man. Thank you. I think there were two reasons why Dean chose me. I think I was probably one of the more respectful people that disagreed with him.
And then the second reason is I think I actually challenged him. He had made a claim along the lines of Bill Clinton, you know, cheating on his wife with Monica Lewinsky and not being impeached by the Democrats in Congress and how that may reflect some anti-family values. I think that it was probably the best rebuttal that I received from anybody today.
First, I want to shake your hand. I hope to have a respectful dialogue with you. My claim is that abortion is immoral or not justified. And so I think it kind of comes down to four main reasons. So the logically, the argument is to kill an innocent human being is morally wrong.
I'm sure you agree with that one. The second is that abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. So therefore, abortion is morally wrong.
So that's the logical argument. But I think there's four points that you're going to bring up that determine whether or not a fetus is human or not. So first is size.
Second is level of development. Three is environment. And fourth is degree of dependency.
So all those things, kind of what I hear pro-choicers say, fall under those categories, and none of those categories determine human value or human worth. You being valuable as a human is based, one, in the fact that you are a human, like that you are part of the human species. Okay. But secondly, I would say because you are made in the image of God as well. Okay.
And so that would be, I think, the basis of why I am pro-life. Okay, yeah, let's have a conversation about this, man. So first of all, I'll just tell you why I'm pro-choice.
So I'm pro-choice because I only value life forms that would fall into a specific conjunction of traits. I value any life form that has a conjunction between past or present and future subjective experiences, and it's not until about 20 through 24 weeks that that is true of a fetus. Therefore, prior to that point, I'm not going to associate value with the life of that fetus. Second of all, you said that a human was valuable, A, because it's human, and B, it's made in the image of God.
So... So, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the idea that you value it because it's made in the image of God, and that is what makes you vote for pro-life legislation.
I don't think that we should be using faith-based beliefs to vote for legislation. Why not? Because when this has been used historically, this has led to very negative outcomes.
One individual might say— Well, that's not true. One moment. So, one person might say that slavery is okay because God said so, and you're saying that abortion is wrong because God said so.
How do we distinguish between those two states? See, I never said that, actually. I gave a whole logical argument that's separate from scripture. But you agreed to my first premise, so I don't even know why you're bringing it up. It just seems kind of like a red herring.
Okay. So you agree to my first premise that killing an innocent human person is wrong, right? I do not. So I don't think in all scenarios that ending the life of an innocent human being is wrong.
I wouldn't say that it would be wrong for a fetus before 24... before 20 through 24 weeks for the reason it falls outside of that conjunction of value I gave you. It doesn't have the ability to deploy first person subjective experiences.
And maybe you'll agree with me. So what does that mean? Explain that to me. Yeah. So like a first person subjective experience is, you know, like a type of qualia that we all experience and, you know, gives us an inference of the idea that you're sitting in a chair in front of a microphone and you can engage with me in a subjective way.
It's a little bit hard to explain, but we can sum this up as consciousness. And then second of all, let's see if maybe you agree with your first premise. What do you say it is murder to pull the plug on a brain dead patient?
Yeah, but I think that's irrelevant to the debate. You say that that's murder and it's not irrelevant to the debate. So do you think that that should be made illegal?
Yeah, I think so. To pull the plug on a brain dead patient? Yeah, if that person is still alive, then yeah, we cannot make that choice.
Okay. We have to let nature take its course for that. Okay, maybe something else we could say here.
Human life begins at the moment of conception, yeah? Yeah, I would agree to that. Okay, and it's murder to kill it after that. So would you say, this was a question I asked earlier, would you say that women with IUDs can be murderers?
Because in some contexts, an IUD will allow for conception to occur, but then it will-IUD, explain that. So an IUD is a form of birth control. It's inserted into a female's cervix, I believe. Maybe that'll get fact-checked.
Well, so yeah. I mean, what it does is in some scenarios, it can prevent conception of a unicellular zygote. In others, it will allow for conception to occur, then prevent implantation. If conception happens and then the fetus is terminated, that is murder.
Okay, so you'd say that some women with IUDs are murderers? Yeah. Okay, do you think that all murderers should go to jail?
Well, yeah, I do. Okay, so then you'd say that some women with some forms of birth control should go to jail? Yeah, and see, now we're on a red herring, though. You're talking about policy, but what? This is a policy.
But you're avoiding the actual discussion. No, this isn't avoiding the discussion. The actual discussion is what is a fetus? What is the unborn? And your only argument against that was level of development.
And you said you have to be conscious that that's what you value. Okay, so first of all... No, is that correct? Yeah, so I only value life forms that have a conjunction of past or present and future subjective experiences.
But I would like to repeat, no, that line of questioning was not a red herring. It was using your logic to imply a certain— No, but— So one moment. But you're getting away from the main point.
Just allow me 30 seconds to finish here, right? So the same logic you're using to imply that abortion is murder and should be criminalized has also led you to the conclusion that women that use some forms of birth control should be sent to jail. Okay, I don't think that's logic we should trust because of how absurd the conclusions can be.
No, but here's the problem is that people within the pro-life movement disagree on that stuff. So you can't use that to discredit the entire pro-life movement. I'm using that to discredit your stance. No, but what every pro-lifer agrees on and what the heart of the issue is that you seem to be running away from is what is the unborn.
And so your example of consciousness falls into level of development. But so does that mean that if we have someone, and you said, I think, subjective experiences and things like that as well. Does that mean if someone...
is born blind and deaf, they're less of a human being? No. Because they can't have the same experiences as the rest of us? So first of all, I don't think that level of experiences, like, I don't know, a newborn being less conscious than you or I, that's not going to determine them to have less value.
My statement would be if they have any subjective experiences, they're going to have the same amount of value and that's going to be consistent across the board. Second of all, I'm not using this determinator for moral value, that being like first-person subjective experiences. to evaluate what is or isn't a human. A unicellular zygote from the moment of conception is a human, as determined by biologists, right? They have unique human DNA, right?
My assertion here is that I do not value the fetus prior to that point because they lack this ability that is necessary for them to be harmed. They don't have a well-being. They can't be harmed. They don't have first-person subjective experiences.
And to say that all human life, regardless of the point of its development, including a unicellular zygote, you know, is just as valuable, that's insane. But you're putting a barrier on it. on what is a human being.
No. Yes, you are. No, I'm already told-That's what you have to do.
No. And I mean, we all put the barrier somewhere. Pro-lifers say-I will clarify again, it's a human being from the moment of conception. Can I finish?
Not all human beings are valuable, of course. Okay. What I was saying is we all put the barrier somewhere. And so pro-lifers are going to put the barrier on conception because that is when it is an independent human being. But you're putting the barrier on consciousness.
And I'm saying-It's true. So if you're going to put the barrier there, the problem is, is that the result of that view is that people with less consciousness have less value. It is not.
Yes, it is. Right. Why is that not the case?
Yeah, because my conjunction for value is meeting the conditions of having the ability to deploy consciousness. Right. But if you deploy more consciousness than another human.
that doesn't mean you have more value than them. Any level of consciousness, right, is going to yield the same amount of value as the next. I think that as soon as a fetus gains this ability to deploy these first-person subjective experiences, that they have just as much value as you do not. Okay, deploy consciousness. So what about if you have someone that is unconscious, that cannot deploy consciousness?
Can we just kill them? No, because they would still meet the conditions of my conjunction for distributing more value. What's the conditions? That being past or present consciousness. and future consciousness, right?
So if you meet that-And future consciousness. Yeah. Okay. So if they have the potential for consciousness. I do not think that the potential for consciousness in the future on its own would yield a morally valuable-Okay.
So now you're walking back on-I am not walking back. Yeah, you did because you said-I have a question. Is the potentiality for consciousness-Hold on. Can you let me finish? Because you've been complaining about everyone interrupting and that's fair, but I need to make my point.
All right. So you were saying that you were- Just saying about future consciousness, and that's exactly the argument with the pro-life, is that they have the potential for that consciousness. And again, you're discriminating based on level of development. And if we were to discriminate against a toddler or whatnot based off of level of development, if that's what it means to be human, then that...
introduces a subjective aspect. You're just kind of making talking points now, right? I've already clarified that this isn't what makes someone a human. This is what makes a human morally valuable. I've also clarified one moment.
Allow me to finish. Allow me to finish. I've also clarified here that no, I do not value potential for future consciousness on its own.
I value it in conjunct to past or present. I feel as if you are almost ignoring my argument, conceiving of an argument. Okay, well, we have it on video of you not just saying past and present, but you saying future. Okay.
So- I mean, you're walking back. If you want to admit that you're walking it back, that's fine. That's totally fine. But that's what you said.
Okay. Do you deny that? So, yeah. When the people at home watch this and scrub their YouTube bar at the bottom back, they will see that I said past or present consciousness and future consciousness. And future consciousness.
Exactly. That's what you call a conjunction. Exactly.
That's what I'm saying. Would you like me to describe to you what a conjunct is and why I would use that to describe your value? Good dialogue. At the end of the day, it's not just about me trying to change everybody else's minds, but it's also about me becoming a better person and holding better beliefs myself.
I think that I definitely had some letdowns within the positions that I was arguing. I could have known much more about... you know, our pull out of Afghanistan and I want to admit that in good faith.
But ultimately speaking in this all things considered sense, I think that I definitely held up pretty well throughout the conversations and hopefully I'm able to make an impact upon the beliefs of anyone who may be watching this interview right now with some of the things I said today. I thought Dean was a great debater. He definitely came with a lot of, like, news articles and a lot of facts, what they want to say, and kind of...
I think at the end of the day, you have the facts, so it's how you construe them. And I think he did really well at construing the facts and everything. He did make me kind of think a little bit. Like I said, he was really... he came in really prepared.
So there are definitely a lot of things on there that I'm gonna have to go back and research on and just get more information on that. You know, I think he's a good kid. I think that he's young.
I think... I think that he needs a little bit more life experience to see what economies do under certain administrations and what they do under another. Just to clarify, I don't believe that women get to high positions by sleeping to the top.
There are plenty of women that do work hard to get to where they need to go, myself included, you know, lots of friends and family that I know, and so many women around the globe, they work so hard every single day to get to where they are, even with the disadvantages that they are given. But we were specifically discussing Kamala Harris'character. She is not one of them.
I think it's valuable, but at the same time, I felt like both sides were talking to a wall. I don't think he felt that he was being listened to. And the same with us. We don't felt like that.
We were listened to. I think this experience has been valuable. Whenever you get people to just come and sit and discuss these hard issues, I think that's a win.
You know, this is gonna be on the Internet. People are going to watch this, and hopefully this sparks discussion. And then... in their lives and in their communities.
And so in that way, I definitely think this was a good conversation to have.