all right folks welcome back today I want to have a focused conversation about scoring calculation um or more specifically you know what kind of mental math do I do you know when I pick up two eights here and then these threes and it says it's a full house you know how do I know how many points this going to be worth or maybe I actually don't care precisely how many points this is what I care about is is this enough to win here what I care about is you know maybe I want to save my glass card for the future I don't want my glass card to break so instead of playing the Glass 3 what if I play this three is this then going to be enough points even without the glass um or maybe instead of playing this steel card if I play two pair instead you can see it's worth about the same number of chips instead of 18 mol for the Full House it's 11 mol for the two pair but we do get the steel card and so does there exist a universe in which playing the two pair is actually better how can I tell um for my Jokers here let's say you're in the shop and you see something that you want maybe there's a X3 Joker like the trio Joker and I want to know okay which of these is the weakest link you know what should I be selling in order to replace it um or you know on the other end of the spectrum if I have this blueprint that can copy whatever my best Joker is what should I be copying should I be copying uh this times 1.7 Ramen or you know maybe I should be copying this flat Plus Mt from the flash card or this chips from the runner you know those types of considerations now before we get into it uh you know I do see some folks they say you know well when I pick up these cards the game already knows how many points this is even before hit the play hand button the game already knows how much is this going to be worth and so why doesn't it just tell me why doesn't it just give me like the honest score preview here you know that's how it is in slay the Spire that that's how it is in Monster train or other you know deck building Rogue likes well you know the we did a poll and and the votes are in and the uh you know vast majority of players they prefer not knowing they prefer you know not having the score preview um I think having the score preview it just is just a different game I think it sucks a lot of the fun out of the game for a lot of people and so you know if that's not what you're into you know if you like how slay the Spire does it then go play slay the Spire I guess um I will say that there is exter there are external tools that can help you with the scoring calculation um you know there's a batro hand calculator where it's pretty easy to select you know different enhanced cards and select different Jokers and it'll just tell you how much it is and you can easily like you know toggle on and off the different Jokers to compare and stuff like that um for me personally uh that takes me out of it right you know this is not necessarily a super immersive game super immersive experience but you know when I'm playing play I want to be in the moment I don't want to be you know taking too much time with the scoring calculation and so you've seen me in my videos I just kind of do real quick mental math and sometimes it's sloppy and sometimes it's inaccurate but it's good enough right and so that's what you want right what you want is okay how do I compute not precisely but quick enough and accurate enough right so let's start with let's just start with the base hand here so ignore all enhancements and let's just say this is a Full House Full House is uh 215 chips and then times 18 Mt um this chip number here is a little bit misleading so we should it matters a little bit the extra chips that we get from our cards so here plus eight for an eight you know plus three chips for three and you know how that goes so maybe you know with these it's an extra 20 chips or something like that again here uh once you have the leveled up you know once you have the planet CS that level up your Full House the extra 20 chips from your cards don't really contribute that much so we're just going to ignore that we're just going to go based on this 215 here and okay maybe it's not that hard to figure out what is 200 * 20 here but let's say I don't know how to do that um let's just look at sort of relativistically how much things are worth so let's do the Jokers one at a time so ignore everything else let's say the only Joker we have is the flash card what I want to know is how much does the flash card do how much does it contribute well you know here I've got about 20 mol and then this is raises it to 70 if I go plus 50 on top of 20 takes me to 70 so how much more is 70 compared to 20 that's what the question is and so that's three and 1/2 times right so from 20 to 70 that's 3 and 1/2 times so this flash card is currently acting as a times 3.5 basically then okay let's consider consider these chips here so sort of independent of your mol here if you get plus 200 chips if you have twice as many chips that's twice as much your score you know three times as much Mt that's three times your score and so those are sort of separate so we can go here with the runner uh this is 260 stacked up here but then also plus 50 from foil so let's just say this is 300 okay so this Runner 300 chips 300 on top of 200 is 500 right so from 200 to 500 that's 2 and 1 half times and so if I only have these two jokers so flash card is times 3.5 and then the runner is time 2.5 and so if I only have these two which should we copy with the brainstorm we should be copying the flash card instead of the runner um and I think generally that's true I think if you have you know once you have the leveled up hands so here level eight Full House with seven uh Earth cards then you get enough chips from your just the base here the base 200 chips that the chips Jokers fall off so even Runner giving us 300 chips wow that's kind of like a lot of chips um falls off when we have the higher level planets all right now let's compare you know something like Fibonacci so you know how do I evaluate these two comparing Fibonacci to flash guard so you know on the surface here Fibonacci is going to give us plus eight for each you know eight and three so if I play five cards that's 40 that's easy right and so 40 on top of 20 is three times so from 20 to 60 that's three times so sort of on the surface here okay the flash card is three and 1 half times the Fibonacci is three times that's separately if I only have one or the other but if I have you know one on top of the other then it becomes a little bit more complicated right so let's say you know flash card takes us up to 70 and then if I go another 40 on top of 70 that's going to be 110 right so we've got these two together that's 110 mol and then plus you know 300 chips from the runner so now the question is with these three how much or you know what should the blueprint be copying right so starting at the flash card if the flash card is giving us you know takes us up to 70 M and then plus 40 on top of 70 is slightly more than 50% right 40 is slightly Le or slightly more than 35 so 40 is going to be slightly more than 50% more so starting from here starting from flash card if I add Fibonacci this extra Fibonacci is a times 1.5 on top of what we already have um or you could think of it these the other way if I have you know Fibonacci takes me up to 60 mol then adding the flash card is something like times 1.9 or something like that or times 1.8 or something like that and so now if the blueprint comes in and it's trying to copy one of these two then you know the difference between 110 and then another plus 50 on top of 100 is another time 1.5 right whereas if I'm copying this Runner the 300 chips is more than this 200 right and so if I have 200 plus 300 is 500 and then another 300 on top of 500 is more than a times 1.5 that's more than 50% an additional 300 on top of 500 and so you know with this configuration I should have blueprint copying the runner um not exactly times two or something like that you know or top sorry not exactly times 1.5 because this is um you know foil here so blueprint is only copying the base 260 but it's like close enough right now this so you know now let's introduce the ramen and so like after all of this stuff here then we have times 1.7 from the ramen time 1.7 is bigger than any of the contributions from any of these if Ramen was times 1.5 or time 1.4 then copying the runner would be better but you know in this configuration copying the ramen's better uh if the ramen is at times 1.7 so far you know not counting any card enhancements and then finally you know what happens if we introduce the hack here so hack is going to give us a re-trigger on all of our you know twos and threes uh not the eights just the threes and so okay hack is going to give us re-triggers on Fibonacci and so if Fibonacci on its own is giving us 80 or sorry giving us 40 and then we get another you know re-triggers on just the threes then that's another 20 for right and so with hack while I have hack Fibonacci is giving me 64 or something like that right you know about 50% more than it was doing before then that Fibonacci is worth more than the flash card in this configuration this is you know assuming that the hack is something that we want to hold on to like how much do we lose if we lose the hack currently the hack is only giving us you know plus 24 mold but that's not not counting these enhanced cards and so you know here's another consideration we have let's say we've got the just the just the one glass card so let's say we have this glass eight here and that's the only thing that we have okay so with this glass eight um this is going to give us a times two after all of the plus eights that we get from the Fibonacci and so with this glass eight actually this Fibonacci instead of being you you know plus 40 mol plus another 24 mol you know so instead of being plus 60 from this Fibonacci now this Fibonacci is 60 and then another 60 if this is times two so this glass card doubles all of the plus from Fibonacci and now Fibonacci is giving us 120 mold and so that happens first we get the plus 120 and then flash card happens after and so in comparison to all of that now flash card is worthless now flash card is nothing and so this is even true if we don't have hack even you know without re-triggering the times two even with just the one time two also we have you know if we incorporate the steel card here steel card giving us another 50% so you know Fibonacci is giving us you know let's say 60 and then times 2 is 120 and then with the steel card another 10 what was it that's uh 180 right 50% on top of 120 is 180 and so you know with 180 Mt coming just from Fibonacci now this base 18 doesn't matter um and you know this flash card is worth even less so you know should we do something like this should we copy our Fibonacci here so if all of our Mt is coming from Fibonacci then putting blue on Fibonacci doubles all of The Malt that we're having and so blueprint on Fibonacci is functionally the same as worth about the same as a times two so it's actually worth slightly more than copying the ramen if we copy Fibonacci instead um or maybe you know even better than that if we do have like the Glass 3 then it's better to copy the hack instead because now we've got you know times three with or times two with a glass card and then another times two with the glass card or even you know just ignoring all of the glass cards if we just have the one steel card then it's better to you know copy the Fibonacci cuz hack doesn't give us the re-trigger on our eights all right um let's talk about you know let's say I have this here's my Full House versus you know let's say I didn't have this glass card and I did this you know would this be how much less would this this be that's what the question is right so here you have a configuration where you get you know maybe a times two and then you get another time two from the glass card or from hack maybe or you know potentially with the blueprint you get another time two you know times eight on top of that you know what happens if I do it with the steel three instead how much am I losing well you divide the score by eight and then you take 2/3 of that because if the steel card gives you plus 50% then your score goes down to you know one from 150% down to 100% so you lose a third right you go down to 2/3 um and so typically what I'll do is I just pay attention to how much I'm scoring in each round and then from one round to the next figure out oh okay well how much is it as a proportion is it two times or you know half as big or you know just compared to the previous round rather than trying to actually count on all of the you know how much everything is you know cuz I'm not going to do 200 * 20 I don't feel like doing that what I can do is if you told me in the previous round I had 30 300,000 and then I you know put in the glass card then that's times 8 so that's going to give me you know whatever 8 * 300,000 is so you know even if I don't know what that is exactly I still know that's big enough um or if I don't do that and I play the steel card instead okay so instead of 300,000 now if I play the steel card instead of holding the steel card now that's only 200,000 now I know all right let's talk about this two pair situation so the difference between the two pair and the Full House we have one less three is being played and so that's 16 less Mt from you know for doing hack and then also Fibonacci that could be plus 16 um or you know maybe the blueprint that's another difference of uh plus 24 out of how much well if we're getting you know let's say let's see here with the full load here with the one glass card how much is this we said uh Fibonacci was 40 plus another 24 and then doubl is like 120 and so out of 120 if I remove this if I take away 24 from 120 that's you know that's uh what is it 20% less right so that's still 4 fths that's still pretty good that's still good enough um this 11 here and then this 18 doesn't matter if Fibonacci is giving us 100 mol anyway right and then on top of that okay so I have 20% less with the steel card and now the steel card is times 1.5 so I have 50% more that's going to make up for the deficit that's going to make up for you know not having that extra three so actually in this configuration the two pair is worth more points if we you know hold on to the steel card compared to playing the Full House all right what about what about what about this what if we go two steel cards and we play the glass one like that's just plenty of points right um let's do this for the of science I'm going to play I'm going to play these and then we said in this configuration maybe it's better to copy Fibonacci here rather than copying the hack rather than copying the flash card and so let's do this uh is that yeah let's do this and then we'll see you in the next round okay so there we lost the glass8 this configuration right now this is 380,000 okay so in the shop here I could pick up Steven let's not do that let's um pick up the hand size I'll pick up this is getting a little bit bigger not that it matters do I want this no trying to find something that matters which maybe is a big ask all right we didn't find anything that's okay um ectoplasm how about this foil sure why not all right so in the next round I know there's a configuration where we get you know 300,000 points or whatever and so getting 100,000 is maybe not that bad so let's look for you know threes and fives or eights let's look for you know what would be a full house um let's discard this let's discard these maybe yeah maybe we don't do the eight anymore um maybe I don't need this many threes so I'll throw away this one all right there we go we got the Full House right so the question is you know how does this compare to what we just did right so this if we're you know got blueprint on Fibonacci so here between the two of these what I'm saying is you know all of our Mt is coming from Fibonacci and so it doesn't matter whether we go you know blueprint copying hack gives us the same Mt as if we did blueprint copying Fibonacci maybe the one difference is if we copy hack we get more chips because you know we get the re-trigger on the foil card as well um um now when we had the glass card when we had the glass8 we were able to see that it was sorry we can move the flash card over here if you want anyway we're able to see that we were able to get um you know 380,000 or something like that so without the glass card this will be half that much um it'll be closer to 190,000 you know almost 200,000 um maybe closer to 200,000 since we have the foil so you know I know that this is going to be enough to clear here you know let's say this wasn't 100,000 let's say I needed to get 300,000 again then the way that you would get 300,000 okay if I don't include this steel card then the steel card this two pair is actually worth more points um so instead of 200,000 I don't know maybe uh ballpark 250,000 is my guess let's find out yeah you know something like that so there we use less material we used less glass cards we didn't have the times two we played only four cards for the two pair but we actually got more points let's see if I can find something else technology uh no we don't need any of this M we don't need to shoot the moon either let's just go next all right what about what if I do it this way what if I just play this Full House then then we don't get Fibonacci well we do get Fibonacci on the aces right uh marginally uh we don't get hack here um we still get you know this from the flash card and so you know if we were in the previous round getting something like you know 250 mol or whatever then this flash card is contributing 20% of that5 of that so maybe this flash card wouldn't have mattered before but it does matter now and so maybe I would guess that without Fibonacci and without the hack with just the flash card I would guess that this is you know maybe like I said 20% 20% of what we were scoring before so you know maybe this is like uh 70,000 um or you know with blueprint I can copy instead you know I said copying this Runner is going to be about the same as copying this Ramen or perhaps more no I think Ramen is still better right now you know it's slightly more than time 1.5 whereas copying Runner is the same as time 1.5 so I'm going to run it like that or what's a flash card flash card is plus 66 so you know is another plus 66 how does that compare to another here 2/3 so 66 is more than 2/3 of 66 + 18 here so 66 + 18 is 84 and so 66 is more than 2/3 so it's actually better to copy the flash card here and so what should this do so 7 ,000 if we add another you know let's say 2/3 on top of 70,000 maybe like 110,000 or something like that yeah something like that close enough like I said you don't need to know exactly how much it is you just need to know is it big enough is it at least uh big enough to score there and I was assuming I was thinking that it wouldn't be enough and so you know we at least have that information now if we want to go let's say discard here all right so we got the fives and we've got the threes here now with the glass card okay well how much is that going to be worth so we tried we tried this so ignoring this three here you know let's say we did uh this two pair with the steel card we said that where we had blueprint copying the Fibonacci we said that was worth about uh 350,000 and so you know without the steel card 350,000 is now closer to you know what's 2/3 of 350,000 I'm going to say it's like 250,000 okay 250,000 and then if I have uh you know let's say the glass card copied with hack so then that's going to betimes 8times 8 on 250,000 my guess is this is going to be uh two million if I do this let's try that maybe I miscounted my one point or my times twos that's about a million uh yeah the ramen's weaker but that shouldn't have made that much of a difference anyway uh you know to wrap it up here this is how I think about it is I think about you know how much is the base and then each contribution how much is it on top of that base and so you know going back to sort of the basics here if we have 200 points then an extra 300 chips on top of 200 this is a times uh how much is it uh times 2.5 right from 200 to 500 that's a times 2.5 and then if I use blueprint to copy it that is another how much on top of that you know how much is another 300 on top of 500 um this is another times uh 1.6 is what this is doing um or you know with the plus mol here with the flash card the first instance of flash card that's going to be times 3.5 and then if we copy it that's going to be something less than a times two right anyway I hope uh some of this was helpful in any kind of way good luck out there