Lecture on The Concept of Prophethood and Ahmadi Beliefs

this he wanted your opinion on this yes having sex with your wife abnormal no we know this if you get married to a woman or if a woman is in your custody back in the day historically speaking concubines we're wives they were as good as wives first of all it's not allowed it's not allowed to the marry women after that what does this mean I I don't want to indulge in this discussion uh when I'm with how many friends when I'm when because I I care about them I care about their salvation I would like I would like them to join me in Jannah if I make it to Jannah inshallah I would like them to I would like for them yeah yeah no no seriously most of them I have nothing but sympathy I have nothing but sympathy and because of that sympathy instead of going around the world discussing for all discussing jurisprudence with them I would discuss Akita with them so so my my discussion my discussion with them would be on prophethood is there another Prophet whether it's Mongol whether it's Punjabi whether it's Indian whether it's Pakistani whether is North African is there another Prophet after Muhammad this is what we say this is what we say Obviously Ahmadi friends don't agree with that they have another Prophet they believe in another prophet and we shouldn't even follow they call him Nabi okay so our main contention is the the concept of prophethood because I am I I when I speak to our Ahmadi friends I I say to them that if there was a no Prophet after Muhammad sallallahu or if you know usually when we look at the history of prophethood okay we see that prophets were born after other prophets from the same Community or immediately afterwards like we have Musa and the list goes on Suleiman okay rasulullah Prophet Muhammad was an exception okay it was an exception so why did we not have a prophet immediately after the prophet himself it could have been these great personalities why in Punjab in India during the colonial period a prophet is born who favors they claim they claim it I mean let them speak for it you tell me what you think our belief is what I understand you're believed to be that you believe was a prophet a profit after Muhammad sallam and you you believe that prophethood did not finish with Muhammad okay so this is this is what your belief is and this is where we draw the line yeah where we do this belief is not correct okay you don't believe in um when you said this is not correct you need to point out which part is okay so which which sentence which part of the sentence first of all we believe okay we believe he was the last prophet I didn't say that no no I I didn't even mention that no no I said do you believe in another Prophet after Muhammad this is the this is what this is what I mentioned right give me give us a bit of context answer that question I have to elaborate my thesis is you claim there is another Prophet I'm not saying I'm not using the term khatam or or what what it means I'm saying you believe in another Prophet after Muhammad is that a correct statement is that a correct statement give him an opportunity if someone comes to me you believe in a prophet after Jesus yes we do simple do you believe in another Prophet after Muhammad and with me with me I'll tell you one thing I'm a very polite person I have nothing but sympathy this discussion is going to be going to be very friendly yes I I have no no agenda here other than to educate people I'm the same yeah I am the same yeah so let's make things clear from the beginning yeah we believe he is that Prophet Mr Prophet will come which he is that person of whom he said no the person he said you think person is a prophet to you he's the same Prophet which the holy prophet in sahih Muslim no I'm answering your question we we will get to the we will get to the details I'm asking is is a prophet to you so hence I am correct in making my claim that you believe in another problem after Muhammad no no no we believe in that Prosperity which which he said would come remember remember when he comes with his companions three times when it comes to his companions he will do this he will do that prophet of Allah prophet of Allah so we believe he is the Fulfillment of that Hadith okay right that's why you you believe that is no we believe he's fulfilling he's he is that person no let me explain the story he is representing Islam in the sense of his qualities and character like Jesus okay that's why he was named okay now Muhammad he before Muhammad sallam he came he delivered his message which was the injeel and he went so he finished his prophetic Ministry agreed agreed or not yeah he completed his mission okay and part of his mission was a prophecy about an Arabian Prophet who will come who will tell you about all things that I haven't told you Prophet Muhammad that means will come and finish the job for Islam is finished with the job Muhammad came he finished his job now Isa returning near the end of times is not a prophetic Mission it is very clear in Sharia in the Hadith literature and now if you want to get into hadees there you will find very difficult to defend your position you quoted sahih Muslim and in in the same books we have statements from the same Prophet same books same prophets so you have no no grounds you are going to claim a number of things okay and I don't want to use my words to represent your views so why do we get into that debate when we have better things more decisive more clear things including Arabic grammatical districts Arabic is a very rich language you can you can you can you in word of the Quran and have ten different meanings and you can choose you can choose exactly yes exactly like like you do it like you do with madhavafika you choose a meaning uh that you you claim that it's death we can show you from the Quran that it can also mean sleep but you choose you choose you choose death no no no no no so this is what no no no no let me ask you this yeah there's no sleep mentioned here if you know if I bring a verse if I bring a verse from the Quran it's upon me that that okay that actually gives the meaning of sleep using the same words yes right yeah you're not being fair in Arabic yes so the word so the word no here's an Arab here oh Jesus means death means it will happen I will counter with the Quran right so so I will counter it with the Quran so when you translate it what is it translated as the problem is with most complete the verse let me finish right so if you translate that literally you're claiming is that it it's not I'm claiming it is even a bus is claiming no let me know don't try it right why he mentions means debt generally that's correct right so we agree generally the meaning of the word when Jesus said when you cause me to die I I have a reason really mentioned in the Quran I I have a point to to come to this we we would not be discussing this point we would not be discussing this point if it wasn't for your claim that is basically Jesus incarnate have you have read it let me respond now I I will test your knowledge on your Prophet what was the first book he published media good what year was that 1886 1887 something like that yeah and I have the first edition in my personal Library you know where I was published what city I don't know the horror Maybe that book minus his claimed to be a prophet that book in itself I'm I'm making this is how fair we are in our criticism in our treatment of others that book is an excellent book is an excellent book if you if you minus his prophethood yes or his claim to profited later on if he had not claimed to be a prophet that book would have stood in the history of Islam as one of the greatest books yes absolutely please record this please record this and but but but afterwards he claimed to be a prophet he basically he basically you can say that undid all the good work he had done but did he ever say did he ever see in his works that he is Jesus incarnate that's what you just no no what he said was okay so he said other absurd things you want me to say it but you don't know what look but just just clarify that okay you said he said you said he claimed he claimed he claimed that he's Messi you know what that means yeah okay the promised Messiah okay wait wait no no let me let me qualify you ask me a question okay you asked me a question now let me because you're taking me up on a point let me respond to it I why am I saying that he claimed to be Jesus incarnate and Jesus in car what does that mean that means return of Jesus that means Jesus returns okay now how how how does he qualify that himself in his Works he categorically claims to be Mercy the promised Messiah which Messiah which Messiah the promised Messiah Isa the return of Isa Islam the return of Jesus right now he is claiming that he is okay wait now we know from history he was from Mongol descent he was a mongolam Ahmed kadiani was Mirza and Mirza is the title for Mongol for mughals Mogul is a corrupted term coming from the word Mongol Mongols were Central Asian and in if anything they don't have a very good history with Islam they destroyed the entire civilization of Islam and they he was one of their descendants okay so over the mughals okay so he was a he came from a Mongol descent so if he claims to be Isa ibnu Mariam do you want him do you want us to take him seriously if anyone who understands his history or someone who has read his books okay having read his books carefully with sympathy without hostility without hate and Prejudice you read his books some of his works are excellent excellent okay no doubt we we have to be fair but some of his Works other works are so absurd that one one is foreign why brother why why you why you killing that's already dead no it's not dead okay let me let me have I acknowledged already that one of the meanings of tawafa is more in fact the dominant meaning of the word is mouth okay let me clarify where we come from in this verse which you use to claim that Jesus died because he has to die from the only two people okay wait wait let me finish please be patient be patient am I respectful yes am I disrespecting your profit no am I am I using any derogatory terms no no from like unlike some other people okay I don't like to debate and discuss it that's fine with hostility so let me let me clarify when you claim that is you have to kill Jesus you have to kill him let me finish you can come back why do you have to kill him Jesus because if Jesus doesn't die he is not born and he cannot be Mercy more for him to be Mercy for him to be the promised Messiah Jesus has to die and for him to die you have to find something in the Quran in the Sunnah ignoring all other supporting evidence why do we insist that in that verse doesn't mean death why are we mad are we crazy have we lost our minds are our Scholars for the last 1400 years they are a bunch of Hypocrites liars deceivers manipulators Spin Doctors no let me explain why they believe that because there there are Kara in Quran and there are reasons for us to say here means sleep why now let me elaborate from the Quran number one the Quran tells us in Surah 4 verse 157 158 and I believe this verse alone is a death blow to the Ahmadi understanding of the life of Isa Islam that complete that block if you are sincere if you are sincere linguistically okay it says this is but then it doesn't stop there this is where the the second coming is foretold the next verse this is a death blow let me explain why not I mean I mean spiritually not not physically okay I mean spiritually let me qualify now now yeah okay now what is the verse saying that none of the will be left will be left Hatta Hatha until he believes in him now here the word motihi some people claim motihi refers to the dying the dying person damir ha is referring to the dying person others claim no motihi means Jesus Jesus Jesus because the discussion the discussion the context gives us Jesus now how do we know this is Jesus we go to the companions of prophet Muhammad sallallahu is this very verse is discussed by he says refers to Islam this is the early understanding of the companions of rasulullah that he saw before he dies before he dies Islam before he dies all the people of the book will believe in him now when will this happen this will happen upon the second coming when he will come and give the al-kitab two options death or belief belief in what believe in him because he is the born of contention he is the bone of contention between the Jews and the Christians the Jews reject him as a false prophet as an imposter as many other things right and I can't mention those things the Jesus they made him God they made him God so that's also blasphemy so Jewish people rejecting a true prophet of God is blasphemy and Christians making him into a God is also cover so belief means believe in me as I was and as I am right I was sent as a prophet so the Jews have to accept me as a God sent prophet and the Christians have to accept me as a prophet not God so then he will give them two options die or believe this is the second coming for Islam so this is there you go there goes your entire house of cards foreign I'm sure you are sincere we're trying to we're trying to invoke each other's you know each other and not understanding you know you your attachment to Allah has to be Beyond a group a particular understanding okay um and and in this case you know if there was any ground for me a person like me to believe in as a prophet I would be the first person to announce here in this place that I believe that he's the prophet of God I don't care if people kill me or don't be able to be I don't care people hate me but I having studied very carefully okay I I don't find any grounds I mean first firstly there are no grounds to claim for another Prophet after Muhammad sallam none none if they were if they were asab the companions the prophet they would go and debate with muslima they would go in debate with okay you guys are claiming to be prophets give us reasons no reason their understanding was so clear-cut they had no doubt that there is no Prophet after Muhammad anyone who claims to be one has to be fought then therefore I'm not saying like you know this is this is I'm talking about history that's what this is what they did yeah yeah I have read the works no no no body what are you talking about there's no Imam there is pronouncing it wrong okay but which book which book I have to remember the name of the book I have it at home he breaks down all the categories again you're beating a point that's dead I'm not even discussing that I'm giving you I'm giving you death blood spiritually again I'm giving you you need to counter you need to counter what I just gave you nowhere in this Arabic is mentioned another person going on the cross simply means I agree I agree so in case you think you're making a point you're not making a point I agree no I'm making [Music] means here that it was made uncertain it was made to resemble there is uncertainty about to them today this is the meaning of it I mean this is the meaning yes to them to them Christians Christians just Christians whoever was watching at that time the Jews Christians no no no no no let me correct you on this Christian's and youth first of all the Christians didn't exist at that time so it wasn't Christians Christian Christianity when we say Christians we mean those who follow Jesus they're all Christians no no we're not quite you need to be clear on this there was no the word Christians is mentioned in the Bible in the Gospel of Luke the people of Antioch they use this term to to describe them and they adopted it yeah they did not exist at the time of the crucifixion right that's a historical fact okay all right I I take that point no problem it's referring to them meaning those who are watching all right now I'm giving our understanding you have your understanding of it our understanding of it that Jesus was put on the cross he went through that well no that's our understanding it's completely false none of it that's that's the right the Quran is very categorical yeah this means he was not crucified whatever that means whatever that means and now these people are claiming that's right that he was crucified [Applause] who said that who said that who said that that to be crucified is to die because because we we have cases that people would survive if I'm going to be jeered from behind if I can't answer there's no point oh yeah please all right because I'm really not interested in having this what are they doing right all right supporting you oh why what it says people who are watching they don't need they don't need this this is our interpretation which is the right of our interpretation we have the right to interpret this now we don't interpret anyone has the right to do anything in this world but but the question is when you when you claim something on someone's heart awesome our interpretation is based upon the Quran and also from the classical Scholars to you to you don't make it Islam don't say don't come to people like me and say when we say when we see anyone who believes in another Prophet after Muhammad is a kafir is a disbeliever to us to us to us don't tell me you are an extremist you are you you no no I'm not saying you are I'm not saying there are people out there you are this you're that we we have an understanding and we have the right to hold that and just like you do just like you do yeah yeah so when we when we say that we don't mean destruction of the the Ahmadi people we don't mean killings of the Ahmadi people we don't mean violence against them we are simply making a theological Point yes should respect that that these guys they don't accept us as Muslims because of what they understand from their books right so likewise we we understand that ahmadis don't accept us as Muslims because don't don't challenge me on that because you know you're not going to have anywhere to run don't challenge me on that I'm gonna put I don't know I'm gonna pull out statements from Ahmed where he declared takir of anyone who doesn't believe in him as a prophet as a prophet so don't don't challenge me on that think things yeah yeah no no no no no no no answer now yeah right sorry no no but you see no you need to let me explain yeah you you how you can have in it no problem you can have your if but to us there is no if no listen the point is if he is that person I believe he is to you to you yeah right yeah then of course if he's that person and then the Muslim um I have the whole lexicon in my library by the way have you read the meanings of the word I know so so why do you pull this one out why do you pull this one out no no no no no no no no hang on why I put this phone out because it clearly says the Quran no no what he's saying is partly correct the problem with our Ahmadi Brothers is they bring partial truth to you they don't bring the whole old okay the whole truth anyway coming back to the issue of Issa no let me show you I know what it means let me show you what let me just let me show you what even about I I this is I said you keep beating at that point I've already I've already conceded that the dominant meaning of the word I don't know why you keep going back to that the dominant dominant meaning of the word is death now I'm saying in that verse you read about Islam it doesn't mean death and why am I claiming that I have already given you my Quran what is Macarena number one the Quran the Quran verse 158 of chapter four number two Kareena number two a hadees from the prophet sallallahu that he hasn't died he hasn't died he will come back sahih reports now amazingly he went to sahi Muslim to use it against me and when I bring the same time Muslim to use it against you you cannot accept it there Isa will come back wait wait wait wait wait okay my understanding of Arabic and what I was told from my teacher who was not in ahmedi he was a Sheikh from Iraq right no problem yeah has he himself said means death and nothing else okay nothing else yes you're claiming that no no no no I will wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what is he saying to Jesus can you engage with me one second you said your teacher said wait that mutavafika only means death okay wait I will pull out is death see I said when it becoming relation to Jesus okay let me finish let me let me I need to get this cross all right I am funny where the mouth has many meanings and to what has many meanings I have no no mouth has only one meaning sorry sorry mouth is one meaning yes right so you want shaky grounds you're on shaky not I don't agree as much as you would like to kill Jesus he's not dying he's not dying he's already he's alive he's with Allah he will return to do what he wants meant to do God was clearifying him at that time when they tried to kill him when they tried to crucify him Allah rescued him and then raised him and raised him how the next verse clarifies alive why because the people of the book will have to believe in him before his death before his death wait wait before his death so that means he was raised alive because if he died that there are still disbelieving Christians there are still disbelieving Jews if he has died then what is the Quran talking about what is Allah is Allah lying to us okay and there is none among the people of the book but would believe in it I.E his death it okay that's in English no no the pronoun can be used masculine or neutral The Amity translations to US are as good as the Christians translate Christian translations of the the Bible in the Quran so we we can't accept them no I'm sorry because linguistically we believe our Amity friends linguistically or Miskin linguistically you are misking seriously I'm telling you because I have already shown conclusively decisively that linguistically you have no grounds to stand off no no I completely disagree of course you do of course I disagree based upon Arabic okay all right you may be better but you no no no I'm not a scholar no I'm not a scholar but but you're you you clearly are not you know why because your your reading is not correct your Arabic reading is not disagree yeah yeah I I'm sorry I disagree no you can't read Arabic you can't even read the Quran you can't connect brother you just read the Quran you're making basic mistakes mistake read the verse again yeah this is um I know white people he's white he's European he's European I understand but I know what Robert hoyland there is a an Oxford scholar a non-muslim who was an expert on early Islam go and listen to his Arabic there is a Muslim a convert listen to his Arabic so so don't come to me and tell me that I know Arabic and you can't read the Quran okay sorry and this is sorry this is because your pronunciation of the Arabic yeah or the Quran is not correct yeah brother please take it from me no no let me finish does anyone know the Quran here is he reading the Quran correctly listen to me no hang on I know it's nothing for me to accept alhamdulillah Allah may Allah bless you may Allah guide you may Allah enable you to join us those who struggle in recitation of the Quran will get more rewards yes so my rewards are better we agree all right amazing I agree I agree with you I'm sorry but I think you are honor because we also but but but you sure can you take how can you pick my mistake he did he just said how can you pick me he made a mistake my friends even even if even if my even if my Arabic is incorrect inshallah will improve on it but this is not a point against you I'm not using it as a point against you but yeah I'm saying don't tell me that you know the Arabic language and you can explain it I won't take you seriously unless someone I mean I know that ahmadis who are Arabs I know I I know there are ahmadis they're very educated they know Arabic language I would take them seriously when they when they would say to me that you Arabic you're making a mistake out okay let's let's talk yeah no problem no problem most welcome yeah Jesus yeah in the certainly is that correct yes your pronunciation is okay I'm happy to be corrected yeah yeah yeah so it's not far from you yes right and you're not an Arab also yes absolutely right so originally I am so I am told I'm told by the ancestors my family come from Lebanon and these countries okay right so the point is it says oh Jesus I will cause you to die okay the first part I will cause you to die no no no no no no no no no no no listen one by one one not only language we have to go to a number of things the Quran yes the Arabic language when we go to Arabic language you have to go to the as well okay now now let's go to the Quran let's go to the Quran you know when the shias come to us and they say we say to them let's go to the Quran and understand game over game over okay like this we go to the Quran and ask Allah what does he mean here when he said [Music] what do you mean by by this Ya Allah in in another place you're telling us before his death all the Jews and the Christians will believe in him but they haven't believed in him so oh Allah why are you lying to us why are you lying to us why are you telling us in one place that before his death all the Jews and Christians will believe in him chapter verse 158 and here you're telling us he died I killed him if you killed him the Jews and the Christians don't believe in him there are still they are still disbelievers right so now the Sunnah companion explains to us Brothers you're not listening the Sunnah explains to us that rasulullah told us in sahih Muslim the same book are brother Ibrahim used against us I'm gonna bring him back to the same book against you I'm discussing with you no problem when I say against me you know what I mean by that yeah in an argument okay so sahih Muslim tells us is Will descend from the heavens alive in person physically with two angels water will be dripping from his hair he will be he will be dressed in a yellowish gown or clothing right and he will descend upon Damascus on the minarets of Damascus and then he will enter the Masjid the Imam of the Muslims when he will recognize him clearly because they will know this is Islam who has returned he will step back back and Israel Islam will push him forward you lead because I am a follower that's the meaning the meaning of this gesture is that I am here to follow if he is a prophet of Allah in his presence and Imam cannot lead yes anyone cannot a Muslim Imam cannot lead in the presence of a prophet of Allah therefore he didn't come back as a prophet okay he came back wait no I'm finishing okay so so this Hadith is in sahih Muslim on top of that we have multiple statements from rasulullah in sahiha reports bukhari and Muslim there is no Prophet after me now if you want to take the meaning to be someone who gives news someone who is a prophet someone who receives what he take what meaning you like but here the prophet is saying in Sherry terms in Islamic religious terms there is no Prophet after me and there will be and also he said there will be 30 the jals before the day of judgment there will be 30 Liars who will claim to be a prophet after me these are all now wait wait brother one second so why would you why would you why would you um late they'd be hugging up today someone who solves our profit every day all over him kissing and hugging no problem yeah brother this is that we are yeah don't respond don't respond to it we're gonna die it's gonna be a digression have you ever seen the prophet have you ever seen the holy prophet have you ever seen the holy prophet have you ever seen the other Prophet yes yes okay so now the problem my Ahmadi friends I want to ask you no you're standing here yeah you will you will you will I'm finishing right now I want to ask you a question when you come to us trying to convince us this is this is I mean I'm you know you know don't take everything literally okay online offline Pakistan India Britain Canada wherever the ahmedi community are all Ghana for example wherever they are they come to the Ala Sunnah and they try to convince us that there is another Prophet after Muhammad now we have our literature and we call it authentic literature our elders have authenticated it and they have confirmed it and they have believed in it now why do you want us to believe in another Prophet when we have so many reasons to disbelieve in him so many reasons to reject him yeah no that's it I'm done I'm done I do apologize your time and I agree with some things he said most I don't agree with okay a lot I don't agree and I'm not saying this disrespectfully has it even the boss says right here in Mexican that's why I brought it up here in Mexico no no no listen brother you're going back to the same Point again I've responded to it for the last half an hour you have respond but you're not you've responded I've already said it means death yes but it also means Sleep listen I know the difference with the Quran with the reasons with the extra detail that you are not giving us is not allowing me to finish okay all right here in Lexington of Lane now I know you should have said that right but here it says regarding it that he God caused him to die put him to death killed him this is the meaning that's what it says and according to who according to according to the election of lame whose Lane let me finish now what now the fight is I have proven my points can I see it no no no can I see it in a second

this he wanted your opinion on this yes having sex with your wife abnormal no we know this if you get married to a woman or if a woman is in your custody back in the day historically speaking concubines we&#39;re wives they were as good as wives first of all it&#39;s not allowed it&#39;s not allowed to the marry women after that what does this mean I I don&#39;t want to indulge in this discussion uh when I&#39;m with how many friends when I&#39;m when because I I care about them I care about their salvation I would like I would like them to join me in Jannah if I make it to Jannah inshallah I would like them to I would like for them yeah yeah no no seriously most of them I have nothing but sympathy I have nothing but sympathy and because of that sympathy instead of going around the world discussing for all discussing jurisprudence with them I would discuss Akita with them so so my my discussion my discussion with them would be on prophethood is there another Prophet whether it&#39;s Mongol whether it&#39;s Punjabi whether it&#39;s Indian whether it&#39;s Pakistani whether is North African is there another Prophet after Muhammad this is what we say this is what we say Obviously Ahmadi friends don&#39;t agree with that they have another Prophet they believe in another prophet and we shouldn&#39;t even follow they call him Nabi okay so our main contention is the the concept of prophethood because I am I I when I speak to our Ahmadi friends I I say to them that if there was a no Prophet after Muhammad sallallahu or if you know usually when we look at the history of prophethood okay we see that prophets were born after other prophets from the same Community or immediately afterwards like we have Musa and the list goes on Suleiman okay rasulullah Prophet Muhammad was an exception okay it was an exception so why did we not have a prophet immediately after the prophet himself it could have been these great personalities why in Punjab in India during the colonial period a prophet is born who favors they claim they claim it I mean let them speak for it you tell me what you think our belief is what I understand you&#39;re believed to be that you believe was a prophet a profit after Muhammad sallam and you you believe that prophethood did not finish with Muhammad okay so this is this is what your belief is and this is where we draw the line yeah where we do this belief is not correct okay you don&#39;t believe in um when you said this is not correct you need to point out which part is okay so which which sentence which part of the sentence first of all we believe okay we believe he was the last prophet I didn&#39;t say that no no I I didn&#39;t even mention that no no I said do you believe in another Prophet after Muhammad this is the this is what this is what I mentioned right give me give us a bit of context answer that question I have to elaborate my thesis is you claim there is another Prophet I&#39;m not saying I&#39;m not using the term khatam or or what what it means I&#39;m saying you believe in another Prophet after Muhammad is that a correct statement is that a correct statement give him an opportunity if someone comes to me you believe in a prophet after Jesus yes we do simple do you believe in another Prophet after Muhammad and with me with me I&#39;ll tell you one thing I&#39;m a very polite person I have nothing but sympathy this discussion is going to be going to be very friendly yes I I have no no agenda here other than to educate people I&#39;m the same yeah I am the same yeah so let&#39;s make things clear from the beginning yeah we believe he is that Prophet Mr Prophet will come which he is that person of whom he said no the person he said you think person is a prophet to you he&#39;s the same Prophet which the holy prophet in sahih Muslim no I&#39;m answering your question we we will get to the we will get to the details I&#39;m asking is is a prophet to you so hence I am correct in making my claim that you believe in another problem after Muhammad no no no we believe in that Prosperity which which he said would come remember remember when he comes with his companions three times when it comes to his companions he will do this he will do that prophet of Allah prophet of Allah so we believe he is the Fulfillment of that Hadith okay right that&#39;s why you you believe that is no we believe he&#39;s fulfilling he&#39;s he is that person no let me explain the story he is representing Islam in the sense of his qualities and character like Jesus okay that&#39;s why he was named okay now Muhammad he before Muhammad sallam he came he delivered his message which was the injeel and he went so he finished his prophetic Ministry agreed agreed or not yeah he completed his mission okay and part of his mission was a prophecy about an Arabian Prophet who will come who will tell you about all things that I haven&#39;t told you Prophet Muhammad that means will come and finish the job for Islam is finished with the job Muhammad came he finished his job now Isa returning near the end of times is not a prophetic Mission it is very clear in Sharia in the Hadith literature and now if you want to get into hadees there you will find very difficult to defend your position you quoted sahih Muslim and in in the same books we have statements from the same Prophet same books same prophets so you have no no grounds you are going to claim a number of things okay and I don&#39;t want to use my words to represent your views so why do we get into that debate when we have better things more decisive more clear things including Arabic grammatical districts Arabic is a very rich language you can you can you can you in word of the Quran and have ten different meanings and you can choose you can choose exactly yes exactly like like you do it like you do with madhavafika you choose a meaning uh that you you claim that it&#39;s death we can show you from the Quran that it can also mean sleep but you choose you choose you choose death no no no no no so this is what no no no no let me ask you this yeah there&#39;s no sleep mentioned here if you know if I bring a verse if I bring a verse from the Quran it&#39;s upon me that that okay that actually gives the meaning of sleep using the same words yes right yeah you&#39;re not being fair in Arabic yes so the word so the word no here&#39;s an Arab here oh Jesus means death means it will happen I will counter with the Quran right so so I will counter it with the Quran so when you translate it what is it translated as the problem is with most complete the verse let me finish right so if you translate that literally you&#39;re claiming is that it it&#39;s not I&#39;m claiming it is even a bus is claiming no let me know don&#39;t try it right why he mentions means debt generally that&#39;s correct right so we agree generally the meaning of the word when Jesus said when you cause me to die I I have a reason really mentioned in the Quran I I have a point to to come to this we we would not be discussing this point we would not be discussing this point if it wasn&#39;t for your claim that is basically Jesus incarnate have you have read it let me respond now I I will test your knowledge on your Prophet what was the first book he published media good what year was that 1886 1887 something like that yeah and I have the first edition in my personal Library you know where I was published what city I don&#39;t know the horror Maybe that book minus his claimed to be a prophet that book in itself I&#39;m I&#39;m making this is how fair we are in our criticism in our treatment of others that book is an excellent book is an excellent book if you if you minus his prophethood yes or his claim to profited later on if he had not claimed to be a prophet that book would have stood in the history of Islam as one of the greatest books yes absolutely please record this please record this and but but but afterwards he claimed to be a prophet he basically he basically you can say that undid all the good work he had done but did he ever say did he ever see in his works that he is Jesus incarnate that&#39;s what you just no no what he said was okay so he said other absurd things you want me to say it but you don&#39;t know what look but just just clarify that okay you said he said you said he claimed he claimed he claimed that he&#39;s Messi you know what that means yeah okay the promised Messiah okay wait wait no no let me let me qualify you ask me a question okay you asked me a question now let me because you&#39;re taking me up on a point let me respond to it I why am I saying that he claimed to be Jesus incarnate and Jesus in car what does that mean that means return of Jesus that means Jesus returns okay now how how how does he qualify that himself in his Works he categorically claims to be Mercy the promised Messiah which Messiah which Messiah the promised Messiah Isa the return of Isa Islam the return of Jesus right now he is claiming that he is okay wait now we know from history he was from Mongol descent he was a mongolam Ahmed kadiani was Mirza and Mirza is the title for Mongol for mughals Mogul is a corrupted term coming from the word Mongol Mongols were Central Asian and in if anything they don&#39;t have a very good history with Islam they destroyed the entire civilization of Islam and they he was one of their descendants okay so over the mughals okay so he was a he came from a Mongol descent so if he claims to be Isa ibnu Mariam do you want him do you want us to take him seriously if anyone who understands his history or someone who has read his books okay having read his books carefully with sympathy without hostility without hate and Prejudice you read his books some of his works are excellent excellent okay no doubt we we have to be fair but some of his Works other works are so absurd that one one is foreign why brother why why you why you killing that&#39;s already dead no it&#39;s not dead okay let me let me have I acknowledged already that one of the meanings of tawafa is more in fact the dominant meaning of the word is mouth okay let me clarify where we come from in this verse which you use to claim that Jesus died because he has to die from the only two people okay wait wait let me finish please be patient be patient am I respectful yes am I disrespecting your profit no am I am I using any derogatory terms no no from like unlike some other people okay I don&#39;t like to debate and discuss it that&#39;s fine with hostility so let me let me clarify when you claim that is you have to kill Jesus you have to kill him let me finish you can come back why do you have to kill him Jesus because if Jesus doesn&#39;t die he is not born and he cannot be Mercy more for him to be Mercy for him to be the promised Messiah Jesus has to die and for him to die you have to find something in the Quran in the Sunnah ignoring all other supporting evidence why do we insist that in that verse doesn&#39;t mean death why are we mad are we crazy have we lost our minds are our Scholars for the last 1400 years they are a bunch of Hypocrites liars deceivers manipulators Spin Doctors no let me explain why they believe that because there there are Kara in Quran and there are reasons for us to say here means sleep why now let me elaborate from the Quran number one the Quran tells us in Surah 4 verse 157 158 and I believe this verse alone is a death blow to the Ahmadi understanding of the life of Isa Islam that complete that block if you are sincere if you are sincere linguistically okay it says this is but then it doesn&#39;t stop there this is where the the second coming is foretold the next verse this is a death blow let me explain why not I mean I mean spiritually not not physically okay I mean spiritually let me qualify now now yeah okay now what is the verse saying that none of the will be left will be left Hatta Hatha until he believes in him now here the word motihi some people claim motihi refers to the dying the dying person damir ha is referring to the dying person others claim no motihi means Jesus Jesus Jesus because the discussion the discussion the context gives us Jesus now how do we know this is Jesus we go to the companions of prophet Muhammad sallallahu is this very verse is discussed by he says refers to Islam this is the early understanding of the companions of rasulullah that he saw before he dies before he dies Islam before he dies all the people of the book will believe in him now when will this happen this will happen upon the second coming when he will come and give the al-kitab two options death or belief belief in what believe in him because he is the born of contention he is the bone of contention between the Jews and the Christians the Jews reject him as a false prophet as an imposter as many other things right and I can&#39;t mention those things the Jesus they made him God they made him God so that&#39;s also blasphemy so Jewish people rejecting a true prophet of God is blasphemy and Christians making him into a God is also cover so belief means believe in me as I was and as I am right I was sent as a prophet so the Jews have to accept me as a God sent prophet and the Christians have to accept me as a prophet not God so then he will give them two options die or believe this is the second coming for Islam so this is there you go there goes your entire house of cards foreign I&#39;m sure you are sincere we&#39;re trying to we&#39;re trying to invoke each other&#39;s you know each other and not understanding you know you your attachment to Allah has to be Beyond a group a particular understanding okay um and and in this case you know if there was any ground for me a person like me to believe in as a prophet I would be the first person to announce here in this place that I believe that he&#39;s the prophet of God I don&#39;t care if people kill me or don&#39;t be able to be I don&#39;t care people hate me but I having studied very carefully okay I I don&#39;t find any grounds I mean first firstly there are no grounds to claim for another Prophet after Muhammad sallam none none if they were if they were asab the companions the prophet they would go and debate with muslima they would go in debate with okay you guys are claiming to be prophets give us reasons no reason their understanding was so clear-cut they had no doubt that there is no Prophet after Muhammad anyone who claims to be one has to be fought then therefore I&#39;m not saying like you know this is this is I&#39;m talking about history that&#39;s what this is what they did yeah yeah I have read the works no no no body what are you talking about there&#39;s no Imam there is pronouncing it wrong okay but which book which book I have to remember the name of the book I have it at home he breaks down all the categories again you&#39;re beating a point that&#39;s dead I&#39;m not even discussing that I&#39;m giving you I&#39;m giving you death blood spiritually again I&#39;m giving you you need to counter you need to counter what I just gave you nowhere in this Arabic is mentioned another person going on the cross simply means I agree I agree so in case you think you&#39;re making a point you&#39;re not making a point I agree no I&#39;m making [Music] means here that it was made uncertain it was made to resemble there is uncertainty about to them today this is the meaning of it I mean this is the meaning yes to them to them Christians Christians just Christians whoever was watching at that time the Jews Christians no no no no no let me correct you on this Christian&#39;s and youth first of all the Christians didn&#39;t exist at that time so it wasn&#39;t Christians Christian Christianity when we say Christians we mean those who follow Jesus they&#39;re all Christians no no we&#39;re not quite you need to be clear on this there was no the word Christians is mentioned in the Bible in the Gospel of Luke the people of Antioch they use this term to to describe them and they adopted it yeah they did not exist at the time of the crucifixion right that&#39;s a historical fact okay all right I I take that point no problem it&#39;s referring to them meaning those who are watching all right now I&#39;m giving our understanding you have your understanding of it our understanding of it that Jesus was put on the cross he went through that well no that&#39;s our understanding it&#39;s completely false none of it that&#39;s that&#39;s the right the Quran is very categorical yeah this means he was not crucified whatever that means whatever that means and now these people are claiming that&#39;s right that he was crucified [Applause] who said that who said that who said that that to be crucified is to die because because we we have cases that people would survive if I&#39;m going to be jeered from behind if I can&#39;t answer there&#39;s no point oh yeah please all right because I&#39;m really not interested in having this what are they doing right all right supporting you oh why what it says people who are watching they don&#39;t need they don&#39;t need this this is our interpretation which is the right of our interpretation we have the right to interpret this now we don&#39;t interpret anyone has the right to do anything in this world but but the question is when you when you claim something on someone&#39;s heart awesome our interpretation is based upon the Quran and also from the classical Scholars to you to you don&#39;t make it Islam don&#39;t say don&#39;t come to people like me and say when we say when we see anyone who believes in another Prophet after Muhammad is a kafir is a disbeliever to us to us to us don&#39;t tell me you are an extremist you are you you no no I&#39;m not saying you are I&#39;m not saying there are people out there you are this you&#39;re that we we have an understanding and we have the right to hold that and just like you do just like you do yeah yeah so when we when we say that we don&#39;t mean destruction of the the Ahmadi people we don&#39;t mean killings of the Ahmadi people we don&#39;t mean violence against them we are simply making a theological Point yes should respect that that these guys they don&#39;t accept us as Muslims because of what they understand from their books right so likewise we we understand that ahmadis don&#39;t accept us as Muslims because don&#39;t don&#39;t challenge me on that because you know you&#39;re not going to have anywhere to run don&#39;t challenge me on that I&#39;m gonna put I don&#39;t know I&#39;m gonna pull out statements from Ahmed where he declared takir of anyone who doesn&#39;t believe in him as a prophet as a prophet so don&#39;t don&#39;t challenge me on that think things yeah yeah no no no no no no no answer now yeah right sorry no no but you see no you need to let me explain yeah you you how you can have in it no problem you can have your if but to us there is no if no listen the point is if he is that person I believe he is to you to you yeah right yeah then of course if he&#39;s that person and then the Muslim um I have the whole lexicon in my library by the way have you read the meanings of the word I know so so why do you pull this one out why do you pull this one out no no no no no no no no hang on why I put this phone out because it clearly says the Quran no no what he&#39;s saying is partly correct the problem with our Ahmadi Brothers is they bring partial truth to you they don&#39;t bring the whole old okay the whole truth anyway coming back to the issue of Issa no let me show you I know what it means let me show you what let me just let me show you what even about I I this is I said you keep beating at that point I&#39;ve already I&#39;ve already conceded that the dominant meaning of the word I don&#39;t know why you keep going back to that the dominant dominant meaning of the word is death now I&#39;m saying in that verse you read about Islam it doesn&#39;t mean death and why am I claiming that I have already given you my Quran what is Macarena number one the Quran the Quran verse 158 of chapter four number two Kareena number two a hadees from the prophet sallallahu that he hasn&#39;t died he hasn&#39;t died he will come back sahih reports now amazingly he went to sahi Muslim to use it against me and when I bring the same time Muslim to use it against you you cannot accept it there Isa will come back wait wait wait wait wait okay my understanding of Arabic and what I was told from my teacher who was not in ahmedi he was a Sheikh from Iraq right no problem yeah has he himself said means death and nothing else okay nothing else yes you&#39;re claiming that no no no no I will wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what is he saying to Jesus can you engage with me one second you said your teacher said wait that mutavafika only means death okay wait I will pull out is death see I said when it becoming relation to Jesus okay let me finish let me let me I need to get this cross all right I am funny where the mouth has many meanings and to what has many meanings I have no no mouth has only one meaning sorry sorry mouth is one meaning yes right so you want shaky grounds you&#39;re on shaky not I don&#39;t agree as much as you would like to kill Jesus he&#39;s not dying he&#39;s not dying he&#39;s already he&#39;s alive he&#39;s with Allah he will return to do what he wants meant to do God was clearifying him at that time when they tried to kill him when they tried to crucify him Allah rescued him and then raised him and raised him how the next verse clarifies alive why because the people of the book will have to believe in him before his death before his death wait wait before his death so that means he was raised alive because if he died that there are still disbelieving Christians there are still disbelieving Jews if he has died then what is the Quran talking about what is Allah is Allah lying to us okay and there is none among the people of the book but would believe in it I.E his death it okay that&#39;s in English no no the pronoun can be used masculine or neutral The Amity translations to US are as good as the Christians translate Christian translations of the the Bible in the Quran so we we can&#39;t accept them no I&#39;m sorry because linguistically we believe our Amity friends linguistically or Miskin linguistically you are misking seriously I&#39;m telling you because I have already shown conclusively decisively that linguistically you have no grounds to stand off no no I completely disagree of course you do of course I disagree based upon Arabic okay all right you may be better but you no no no I&#39;m not a scholar no I&#39;m not a scholar but but you&#39;re you you clearly are not you know why because your your reading is not correct your Arabic reading is not disagree yeah yeah I I&#39;m sorry I disagree no you can&#39;t read Arabic you can&#39;t even read the Quran you can&#39;t connect brother you just read the Quran you&#39;re making basic mistakes mistake read the verse again yeah this is um I know white people he&#39;s white he&#39;s European he&#39;s European I understand but I know what Robert hoyland there is a an Oxford scholar a non-muslim who was an expert on early Islam go and listen to his Arabic there is a Muslim a convert listen to his Arabic so so don&#39;t come to me and tell me that I know Arabic and you can&#39;t read the Quran okay sorry and this is sorry this is because your pronunciation of the Arabic yeah or the Quran is not correct yeah brother please take it from me no no let me finish does anyone know the Quran here is he reading the Quran correctly listen to me no hang on I know it&#39;s nothing for me to accept alhamdulillah Allah may Allah bless you may Allah guide you may Allah enable you to join us those who struggle in recitation of the Quran will get more rewards yes so my rewards are better we agree all right amazing I agree I agree with you I&#39;m sorry but I think you are honor because we also but but but you sure can you take how can you pick my mistake he did he just said how can you pick me he made a mistake my friends even even if even if my even if my Arabic is incorrect inshallah will improve on it but this is not a point against you I&#39;m not using it as a point against you but yeah I&#39;m saying don&#39;t tell me that you know the Arabic language and you can explain it I won&#39;t take you seriously unless someone I mean I know that ahmadis who are Arabs I know I I know there are ahmadis they&#39;re very educated they know Arabic language I would take them seriously when they when they would say to me that you Arabic you&#39;re making a mistake out okay let&#39;s let&#39;s talk yeah no problem no problem most welcome yeah Jesus yeah in the certainly is that correct yes your pronunciation is okay I&#39;m happy to be corrected yeah yeah yeah so it&#39;s not far from you yes right and you&#39;re not an Arab also yes absolutely right so originally I am so I am told I&#39;m told by the ancestors my family come from Lebanon and these countries okay right so the point is it says oh Jesus I will cause you to die okay the first part I will cause you to die no no no no no no no no no no no listen one by one one not only language we have to go to a number of things the Quran yes the Arabic language when we go to Arabic language you have to go to the as well okay now now let&#39;s go to the Quran let&#39;s go to the Quran you know when the shias come to us and they say we say to them let&#39;s go to the Quran and understand game over game over okay like this we go to the Quran and ask Allah what does he mean here when he said [Music] what do you mean by by this Ya Allah in in another place you&#39;re telling us before his death all the Jews and the Christians will believe in him but they haven&#39;t believed in him so oh Allah why are you lying to us why are you lying to us why are you telling us in one place that before his death all the Jews and Christians will believe in him chapter verse 158 and here you&#39;re telling us he died I killed him if you killed him the Jews and the Christians don&#39;t believe in him there are still they are still disbelievers right so now the Sunnah companion explains to us Brothers you&#39;re not listening the Sunnah explains to us that rasulullah told us in sahih Muslim the same book are brother Ibrahim used against us I&#39;m gonna bring him back to the same book against you I&#39;m discussing with you no problem when I say against me you know what I mean by that yeah in an argument okay so sahih Muslim tells us is Will descend from the heavens alive in person physically with two angels water will be dripping from his hair he will be he will be dressed in a yellowish gown or clothing right and he will descend upon Damascus on the minarets of Damascus and then he will enter the Masjid the Imam of the Muslims when he will recognize him clearly because they will know this is Islam who has returned he will step back back and Israel Islam will push him forward you lead because I am a follower that&#39;s the meaning the meaning of this gesture is that I am here to follow if he is a prophet of Allah in his presence and Imam cannot lead yes anyone cannot a Muslim Imam cannot lead in the presence of a prophet of Allah therefore he didn&#39;t come back as a prophet okay he came back wait no I&#39;m finishing okay so so this Hadith is in sahih Muslim on top of that we have multiple statements from rasulullah in sahiha reports bukhari and Muslim there is no Prophet after me now if you want to take the meaning to be someone who gives news someone who is a prophet someone who receives what he take what meaning you like but here the prophet is saying in Sherry terms in Islamic religious terms there is no Prophet after me and there will be and also he said there will be 30 the jals before the day of judgment there will be 30 Liars who will claim to be a prophet after me these are all now wait wait brother one second so why would you why would you why would you um late they&#39;d be hugging up today someone who solves our profit every day all over him kissing and hugging no problem yeah brother this is that we are yeah don&#39;t respond don&#39;t respond to it we&#39;re gonna die it&#39;s gonna be a digression have you ever seen the prophet have you ever seen the holy prophet have you ever seen the holy prophet have you ever seen the other Prophet yes yes okay so now the problem my Ahmadi friends I want to ask you no you&#39;re standing here yeah you will you will you will I&#39;m finishing right now I want to ask you a question when you come to us trying to convince us this is this is I mean I&#39;m you know you know don&#39;t take everything literally okay online offline Pakistan India Britain Canada wherever the ahmedi community are all Ghana for example wherever they are they come to the Ala Sunnah and they try to convince us that there is another Prophet after Muhammad now we have our literature and we call it authentic literature our elders have authenticated it and they have confirmed it and they have believed in it now why do you want us to believe in another Prophet when we have so many reasons to disbelieve in him so many reasons to reject him yeah no that&#39;s it I&#39;m done I&#39;m done I do apologize your time and I agree with some things he said most I don&#39;t agree with okay a lot I don&#39;t agree and I&#39;m not saying this disrespectfully has it even the boss says right here in Mexican that&#39;s why I brought it up here in Mexico no no no listen brother you&#39;re going back to the same Point again I&#39;ve responded to it for the last half an hour you have respond but you&#39;re not you&#39;ve responded I&#39;ve already said it means death yes but it also means Sleep listen I know the difference with the Quran with the reasons with the extra detail that you are not giving us is not allowing me to finish okay all right here in Lexington of Lane now I know you should have said that right but here it says regarding it that he God caused him to die put him to death killed him this is the meaning that&#39;s what it says and according to who according to according to the election of lame whose Lane let me finish now what now the fight is I have proven my points can I see it no no no can I see it in a second

Transcript for:Lecture on The Concept of Prophethood and Ahmadi Beliefs

Transcript for:
Lecture on The Concept of Prophethood and Ahmadi Beliefs