[Music] 52. 173 years ago, Frederick Douglas delivered the keynote address at an Independence Day celebration at Corinthian Hall in Rochester, New York. The address was entitled or the address was entitled, "What to the slave is the 4th of July?" I find this address to have been so clear, prophetic, and relevant to this day that I want to spend a significant part of today's program discussing it, analyzing it, unpacking it. And to assist me in this effort, let's turn to my first guest. He holds the John J. and Rebecca Moore's chair of history and African-American studies at the University of Houston. He is one of the most prolific writers of our time. His latest book is entitled The Capital of Slavery, Washington D.C. 1800 to 1865. Dr. Gerald Horn, as always, my dear brother, welcome and great to have you. Thank you for inviting me. Uh before we get into the specific text of the speech to me what makes it even more prof what makes the speech even more profound beyond the text is the context understanding the history of Douglas his personal experience which provides such clarity in the speech he says quote the fact is ladies and gentlemen the distance between this platform and the slave plantation from which I escaped is considerable, and the difficulties to be overcome in getting from the latter to the former are by no means slight. That I am here today is to me a matter of astonishment as well as of gratitude." End quote. your thoughts on the context in which this phenomenal address was delivered. Well, the context is that July 4th, 1776, there were thousands of enslaved Africans on the Atlantic seabboard of what is now the United States. By 1861, there were millions. In 1776, the settlers from Europe had seized land along the Atlantic seabboard. By 1861, on the verge of the US Civil War, their remitt had expanded all the way to the Pacific. And a few decades later, they jumped across the Pacific into Hawaii to throw overboard that independent kingdom in order to seize that territory and make it the 50th and presumably the final state of Mr. Trump's desire to absorb Canada is thwarted. I think it's important to recognize, it's long past due to recognize that Mr. Frederick Douglas had a point when he was upgrading the United States of America. Uh comparing it to the most vicious despatisms that then existed on planet Earth. Certainly that was the case with regard to the indigenous and to the enslaved Africans. And it's important to recognize a few points. One that this vicious despotic activity was hardly accidental or coincidental. And number two, we certainly need a history that sheds light on the present. We need a history that helps to explain the Trump phenomena. We need a history that helps to explain why we're in the process of undergoing the most significant redistribution of wealth from bottom to top in the history of the country if not the world. I think that one of the reasons why the number of history majors in colleges and universities is plummeting and going downward is that history has turned itself, that is to say, the teaching of history has turned itself into a useless artifact. It's not illuminating the present. It doesn't project a trajectory for the future. And I think that if Mr. Trump has his way, that will continue to be the case. Is it is it hyperbole for me to and because I I say this quite often that we need to read this speech. Is it is it hyperbole hyperbole for me to say that at the July 4th celebrations that some of this text needs to be read especially as I've been looking over the years the growing focus on Junth uh that for us as as Africans in America or African-Americans that this speech to me is so incredibly relevant Now, I'm not saying read the whole thing because it's if you print it out, it's about 14 pages and a whole lot of folks at the cookout might might fall into the fire pit, but that at least some recognition of the context of this speech needs to be discussed. Well, certainly because obviously the United States is heading over a cliff as we speak. Uh first of all, with regard to this legislation working its way through Congress, uh it will punish severely the poor and the working class, taking food from the mouths of babes in order to execute tax cuts for billionaires. And then on the foreign scene, on the international scene, on the global scene, we are enduring the spectacle of Benjamin Netanyahu showing up in Washington DC on Monday. Inevitably, I think we have to brace ourselves for round two of the USIsraeli attack on Iran. Iran has not been asleep at the switch since the so-called 12-day war ended. Its defense minister has been in China conferring conferring with other defense ministers from Russia and other leading members of the so-called Shanghai Cooperation Organization which in many ways is a counterpoint to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization led by Daddy Trump. And so Iran also is in the process of getting fighter jets from the People's Republic of China. So, as many of our friends and comrades perhaps are celebrating July 4th, what they also need to be doing is reconsidering this speech on the table right now by Frederick Douglas because we need a new understanding of how we reach this perilous point. And if Mr. Trump has his way as he continues to pulverize and punish universities like Colombia, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, University of California, etc. If he has his way, uh we will continue to rise in an abyss of ignorance. it. This is a incredibly scathing speech in which Douglas states, quote, "This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice. I must mourn." When I first read that, it brought to mind Dr. King's I have a dream wherein King states but 100 years after Lincoln quote the great emancipator delivered the emancipation proclamation the negro still is not free 100 years later the life of the negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination 100 years later the negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material ial prosperity. 100 years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself in exile in his own land. Uh I I just in in reading Douglas, not only this speech, but in so many others, uh there's a there's a resonance in the articulation of others. And and so again, when I when I as I first read What to the Negro was the 4th of July, it took me right to uh I have a dream. Well, I think what Douglas was trying to address is something that should have been recognized uh earlier and certainly since his 1852 remarks. That is to say, many of our friends on the left have been trying to convince us that despite the fact that the Constitution spoke of us as three-fifths of a human being, despite the fact that a number of the leaders of the revolt against British rule were enslavers, that somehow the principles they enunciated were sufficiently flexible to apply to us even posts slavery. uh Mr. Trump is putting paid to that kind of cockame idealism because with his attacks on affirmative action, the attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion, removing the name of black people from battleships of the US Navy, for example, he's trying to convince us that Frederick Douglas was correct, basically. And those on the left who've been trying to convince us that Frederick Douglas was misguided have been wrong. And if those if there are those in the audience who are trying to understand how we have worked our way out of the pickle in which we find ourselves, well, the answer is simple. We've lengthened the battlefield. We internationalized our struggle which makes all the more poignant this notion that we should steer clear of foreign policy for example. In other words, those who take that wrong-headed point of view are basically consigning us further into the depths of Trumpism for example. And speaking of poignency, uh, I find it remarkable that as the NAACP approaches its convention in Charlotte in a few days, that the leader of that August organization has spoken movingly about how fascism is creeping into this country on little cat feet. But the question that he should ask himself is how and why that is taking place in this nation that we have been told the creation of was a great leap forward for humanity. That is to say, how did we get from 1776 to 2025? And if we are to answer that question, certainly we need to consider these sterling remarks of 1852. And as we move uh to to pause just for a moment, you know, people will call into the program or send me messages saying, "Wilmer, what are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to do? You're not telling us what to do?" And my answer is always well the first thing you need to do is read be and and read documents such as what to the slave is the 4th of July because so much of the answer has already been given. Go back and look at the Gary declaration for example. So much of what to do has already been given. In fact, this uh quote is not in the uh what to the slave is a fourth of July speech. This I think quote comes from a speech two years later and many have heard the first part of this but many of y'all haven't heard the second and that is quote power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. We've heard that. But then Douglas goes on to say, "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to, Congressional Black Caucus, and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." And these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. He's talking about resistance. Ladies and gentlemen, hold that thought, please. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Woman Leon here. Inside the issues is where you are. SiriusXM 126 Urban View. Dr. Gerald Horn is my guest. Uh we're providing some analysis and current relevance of uh of the address that was delivered by Frederick Douglas on this date 173 years ago, July 5th, 1852. What to the slave is the 4th of July? Folks, keep it locked right here. SiriusXM 126 Urban View. Okay. How was that as the first segment? Right on. Okay. Some folks told me that I was wasting my time with this that this has been addressed and I said, you know, I don't hear anybody talking about this uh 3528. All right, coming back to you in three, two, one. We are back. We are back. Dr. Wmer Leon here. Inside the issues is where you are. SiriusXM126 urban view. And I forgot to mention going into that break that you're listening to Europa. Uh Herby Hancock and Carlos Santana live under the sky 1981 live recording in Tokyo, Japan. And uh that's what you're hearing uh as we speak uh right now. So we're talking with Dr. Joe Horn giving some analysis and some current relevance of uh the speech that was delivered 173 years ago today by Frederick Douglas on this date July 5th 1852. What to the slave is the 4th of July? And going into the break, I read a quote from another uh uh famous speech uh by uh Frederick Douglas. And I'm going to read this again and then Dr. Horn, I'm going to ask you to I know you wanted to respond. um quote, "Power conceds nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." And again, folks, um, you know, so many of us have heard that quote, but many of us don't know what comes after that. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to, and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them. And these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. End quote. And Dr. Horn, you had you had a you had a response. Well, you mentioned that there are those in our audience, perhaps some, that need to read more, and I would echo that particular notion as also indicating that it should be a prelude to action. Mhm. For example, if you read about Frederick Douglas, one of the things you will discover is that despite the poo pooing of internationalism in 2025 and getting involved in the intricacies of US foreign policy, the pre-Ivil War Frederick Douglas was spending quite a bit of time in London at a time when the United States and Great Britain were at each other's throats over the so-called Oregon territory. For example, in the 1840s, what is now the Pacific Northwest of the United States of America, a few decades earlier, there had been the War of 1812 whereby uh enslaved Africans in Washington DC in August 1814 had joined the invaders and red coats and torching the White House and sending President Madison and his girls uh spouse Dolly fleeing into the streets one step ahead of the posi. But if you fast forward to the 20th century and once again to focus on our largest mass organization, the NAACP some decades ago, they made a fouian bargain. That is to say, in return for anti-Jim Crow concessions flowing from Brown versus Board of Education, the High Court decision of 1954, followed a decade or so later by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In return for those concessions, they tossed overboard the internationalists amongst us. Paul Robson, the great actor and activist in the first instance. The problem with that deal is that it has reached its expiration date. That is to say, Mr. Trump has made clear that uh no more anti-Jim Crow concessions. In fact, there will be givebacks on that score. And since we've broken off our contacts with the international community, we're basically out on a limb. But rather than recognizing that cruel dilemma, we have many in our community who continue to preach the oldtime religion when it has been exposed as fraudulent. And certainly going back to Douglas in 1852 and 1854 is one gigantic step towards rectifying this intolerable situation. You you just mentioned uh Douglas spending time in London. Um I I've read I won't say accounts, but there are those who say well no just let me ask you this. Do do you know as a historian whether or not Frederick Douglas and Carl Marx ever crossed paths when Douglas was in Europe? Not to my knowledge, although the resemblance uh is is quite striking in terms of being here, in terms of the long long hair and beard, but uh even if they did not uh they crossed paths ideologically, yes, in terms of both being stern opponents of enslavement of Africans, for example, being stern opponents of the so-called Confederate States of America which revolted against the Lincoln government in 1861 because they wanted to perpetuate enslavement of Africans forever more. And once again, in terms of trying to understand how Mr. Trump got 77 million votes in November 2024. uh though he was a convicted felon and though those votes were coming from a base that are now about to be punished and pulverized by Medicaid cuts and food stamp cuts. Consider that the Confederate States of America in 1861, even though their cause was led by enslavers, the foot soldiers were poor and workingclass Euroamericans, settlers, and settler descendants who were fighting for a system, slavery, that would drive down their wages and working conditions because it is not easy nor simple to compete against a worker who works for free. But yet, just as there are those today who support punishing Medicaid cuts and punishing food stamp cuts, even though it's going to be to their detriment, in order to understand that, you have to understand 1861 and some of the dilemmas faced by one Frederick Douglas. One of the first things that jumps out at me in reading this speech is how Douglas quickly goes to what I call othering the enslaved. He's he's incredibly clear from the top. The Fourth of July is quote the birthday of your national independence and of your political freedom. This to you is what the Passover was to the emancipated people of God. It carries your minds back to the clay and to the act of your great deliverance. This celebration also marks the beginning of another year of your national life and reminds you that the Republic of America is now 76 years old. End quote. uh we as African-Americans and other people of color, whether they be uh immigrants to this country, Palestinians in Gaza, for example, are all considered and treated as other. And that had that this demonstrates how that was so deeply ingrained into the uh psyche of America uh and and and continues to this day. Well, I'm glad you raised the question of historic Palestine because that allows us to draw parallel parallels between these two settler societies. The headlines have been filled in recent days with stories about how settlers on the illegally occupied West Bank are attacking the Israeli military because they feel, believe it or not, that the Israeli military, which has been engaged in a reign of terror, is not acting aggressively enough. If you look at the history of the Pacific Northwest, and excuse me, I'm doing a book on this subject, which is why I keep raising it. During the time of Frederick Douglas's heyday in the 1840s and the 1850s, the settlers were upset that they thought the US military was not sufficiently aggressive and uprooting the indigenous population. And so they in fact began to campaign against the US military and established a system whereby the settlers themselves were able to organize militias who then could begin to behead and scalp Native Americans and turn over their booty to the federal authorities for a payment. Mark Carney, the prime minister of Canada today has spoken of how Mr. Trump is trying to monetize US hedgeimonyy, US dominance. The settlers in the Pacific Northwest were monet monetizing genocide directly. And so once again, if you have this romanticized, gauzy, uh, basically unrealistic point of view of the founding of the United States of America, you're not only going against the grain established by Frederick Douglas, but you're also consigning yourself to a very uh, difficult fate because that romanticized point of view will not help you to understand the present. and ill prepares you for the future. He he goes on to say uh this celebration marks another year of your national life and reminds you that the Republic of America is now 76 years old at that time. Uh he says,"I am glad, fellow citizens, that your nation is so young, 76 years, though a good old age for a man is but a mere speck in the life of a nation. Three score years and 10 is the allotted time for individual men, but nations number their years by thousands." According to this fact, you are even now only in the beginning of your national career still lingering in the period of childhood. And you and I have discussed on this show and others that that is still relevant to this day as the United States tries to figure out the mindset of the Iranians, as the United States tries to figure out the unwillingness of the Palestinians to concede uh or looking even at at how to deal with Russia. There's a history that those cultures have that are thousands of years old and the United States what still has to hit 250. So it it it reminds me of the of of of thinking about you know children thinking they're smarter than their parents or smarter than their grandparents because they understand the internet. But as the grandparents would say, I have forgotten more about life than you'll ever know. Dr. Joe Horn. Well, it also reminds me of once again contemporary debates. Uh in the United States of America, as you know, there is a celebration of freedom of speech and the first amendment. But obviously there are limits because as we speak in New York City, the capital of capitalism, the winner of the Democratic Party primary for mayor of Gotham, Mr. Mdani proclaims that he is a socialist and even though he bested in that primary the former disgraced governor Andrew Cuomo, the epitome of a sex pest and a bigot, there is some question as to whether or not he will receive an endorsement from other Democrats, including, for example, uh, Hakeim Jeff, the speaker in waiting, uh, Gregory Meeks, the ranking member from the House Foreign Affairs Committee, uh, etc. And Mr. Trump is raising questions like he raised about Mr. Obama as to whether or not he is actually legally qualified to be mayor. And in fact, he's raised the flag of actually deporting him. Mr. Mumani was born in Uganda, although he's lived in New York City since the age of seven and became a US citizen some years ago. And so whatever happened to freedom of speech, that is to say, you have freedom of speech as long as you adhere to the dict of those who rule. And that exposes the limitations of what was inaugurated in 1776, thereby helping us to better appreciate and understand these stirring remarks of Frederick Douglas from 1852. When we come back, I want to follow up on this issue with the with the election in New York because I don't think enough people understand this how significant this could be depending on how some of this shakes out. So I I'd like to follow up on that point. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Wmer Leon here inside the issues is where you are. SiriusXM 126 Urban View. And right now you are listening to uh Europa, Herby Hancock and Carlos Santana. Uh Tony Williams is on drums. You've got Winton Marcales on on trumpet and and a couple of other folks whose names I'll mention when we come out of the other side. This is uh Europa off of uh Live Under the Sky 1981 in Tokyo. Keep it locked right here. SiriusXM 126 Urban View. [Music] Uh 36. Okay, we've got 21 32 left. Coming back to you in three, two, one. We are back. We are back. Dr. Woman Leon here inside the issues is where you are. SiriusXM 126 Urban View. You're listening to right there Europa. That's Herby Hancock and Carlos Santana live under the sky 1981 in Tokyo. And Dr. Gerald Horn is my guest. Uh we're unpacking a bit of the the the what I believe to be phenomenal speech by Frederick Douglas. What to the slave is the 4th of July. It was delivered on this date, July 5th, 1852, 173 years ago. And I believe it is still incredibly uh relevant to this day. But want to just uh take a quick uh deviation from that. You mentioned the uh mayoral election in New York and how Mr. uh Man Donnie uh has defeated uh the former governor of New York uh Mr. Cuomo. And I've been asked by a number of folks my thoughts on, you know, what do I think? And I is what do I think this means? And I say, well, it's really too early to tell because one of the things that we're going to have to see is, and I think you were alluding to this in the previous segment, what will the Democratic Party elite do? Will they respect the vote of the constituents in New York and support the winner of the election, Mr. mom Donnie or will they revert to the traditional tactics of what the elite will do and rally around their own and I think that will be incredibly telling in a broader national context. Your thoughts, sir? Well, I'm afraid to say we have a distressing example by which we can be guided. recall that it was not so long ago in the Empire State's second largest city, speaking of Buffalo, you had a black woman socialist, India Walton, who prevailed against the incumbent mayor. And of course, what happened is that the Democratic Party grandees rallied against her and helped to defeat her. And I'm afraid to say that history might repeat itself. That is to say that uh the Democratic Party leadership in Gotham might decide that Mr. Mumdani speaking of arresting Benjamin Betton Netanyahu if he shows up in Gotham on his watch is a bridge too far. That Mr. Mani's proposals to raise taxes sharply against the billionaire class is a bridge too far. And if that is the case, well then you have to wonder how do these Democratic Party leaders propose that we fight Trumpism? How do they propose that they improve the working conditions and the wages and the neighborhood conditions of their constituents? As the musicians might say, I think they're about to be exposed as faking the funk. and their nose has got to grow. I think that's known as the Pinocchio theory. Dr. Gerald Horn. Uh so going back to to Douglas, uh he says, "Fellow citizens, pardon me. Allow me to ask, why am I called upon to speak here today? What have I or those I represent to do with your national independence? Are the great principles of political freedom? And I think that's relevant to what we just talked about and of natural justice embodied in that Declaration of Independence extended to us. and am I therefore called upon to bring our humble offering to the national altar and to confess the benefits and express devout gratitude for the blessing resulting from your independence to us. Uh I think Dr. horn, whether we look at voter suppression, whether we look at the minations that we could see play themselves out in New York, that question or those questions in that paragraph are as relevant today as they were in in uh in 1852 when he posed them. Relevant indeed. And I think that one does not have to dig too deeply to recognize that what ultimately Frederick Douglas is saying is that when the United States was established July 4th, 1776, it was not intended to include black people in the first instance. And perhaps it's also fair to suggest that it was not intended to include the indigenous population in the first instance as well. And that in order to overcome that tremendous domestic opposition once again we have been compelled and obligated to lengthen the battlefield to build global and international alliances. But alas, once again, speaking of faking the funk, some of the leaders of our m mass organizations have instructed us that that sure route to improving our condition should be ruled out of bounds. And therefore, we should stick to our domestic knitting. Uh even though the domest sticking to our domestic knitting led to a felon being elected in November 2024 with 77 million votes and since that point has raised has waged a virtual reign of terror against our uh community indeed. And so obviously we cannot no we can no longer uh continue on this uh ill-famed path which we are now traversing but I'm afraid to say that there are few signs that are indicative of the point that we are about to reverse course and you know to your point about internationalizing our plight that takes us back to the likes of a hakee Jeff of a Gregory Meeks who are just flat out or and even um uh the senator from Atlanta um Bowman I think it is um uh Raphael Waro Waro thank you Waro. Thank you. Uh backing genocide in Gaza. Uh, which takes me to that video of uh that I think Palestinian sister during the during the town hall in in Dr. King's where where Waro is standing in Dr. King's pulpit and that Palestinian sister says make this make sense. Make this your support of genocide. Make this make sense. And I think that is a clarion call that more of us need to be echoing at these uh town halls. Whether you go to see Jeff or Meeks, you must demand they make this make sense because they can't. Dr. Joe Horn, well, I think as well that some of these leaders that you have just mentioned are well aware of recent history. We should not forget the fact that in November 2024, you had the defeat of Congressman Jamal Bowman of Bronx, Westchester, not least because he expressed sympathy for the victims of genocide in historic Palestine. You had to defeat Congresswoman Corey Bush of St. Lewis, not least because she had expressed sympathy as well along the lines of Congressman Bowman. I think that we would be remiss if we did not call out the Zionist lobby, the Zionist billionaires who now have Mr. Mumani in the crosshairs. They want to make an example of him just like they've made an example of Bowman and Bush to the point where it serves as an intimidating factor uh helping to scare off uh perhaps understandably to a degree Waro Jeff Meeks and I think that in order to reverse this disastrous and dangerous course on which we find ourselves where Mr. Trump and a section of his base is leading us to the precipice of World War II, which perhaps will be solidified when Benjamin Netanyahu is in the Oval Office on July 7th. That is to say, we have considerable odds stacked against us. But that is not the end of the story because Frederick Douglas, formerly enslaved, had considerable odds stacked against him. But that did not prevent him from consorting with the leaders in London at a time when London and Washington were at swords point. What we have to do or what some of our leaders need to do is muster the courage that drove Frederick Douglas in 1852. But alas, I'm not sure if that will occur. Douglas told us, "Oppression makes a wise man mad." Speaking to the audience, he says, "Your fathers were wise men, and if they did not go mad, they became restive under this treatment. They felt themselves the victims of grievous wrongs wholly incurable in their colonial society. With brave men, there is always a remedy for oppression." Uh he's talking about struggle. And that's one of the things again that if those of us in 2025 who are sitting there scratching our heads trying to figure out what are we to do, the answer to the question is struggle. Dr. Horn. Struggle indeed. And that of course means affiliating with organizations, affiliating with mass organizations. Hopefully, it means not only affiliation and struggle, it means self-education as you suggested a few moments ago. Because as we charge into battle, we should charge into battle with new ideas, with sound ideas, with ideas that have stood the test of time, with ideas that have driven and motivated people across the boundaries across the borders of this so-called republic. But once again, uh I'm not sure if that outline that I've just sketched will be followed. And that helps to explain, I'm afraid to say, uh, why Mr. Trump remains in power. Quote, would you have me argue that man is entitled to liberty? That he is the rightful owner of his own body? You have already declared it. Must I argue the wrongfulness of slavery? Is that a question for Republicans? Capital R. Is it to be settled by the rules of logic and argumentation as a matter beset with great difficulty involving a doubtful application of the principle of justice hard to be understood? How should I look today in the presence of Americans dividing and subdividing a discourse to show that men have a natural right to freedom, speaking of it relatively and positively, negatively and affirmatively? to do so would make my would make myself ridiculous and to offer an insult to your understanding. And uh uh Amir Baraka loved this line. There is not a man beneath the canopy of heaven that does not know that slavery is wrong for him. Replace slavery with genocide, Dr. Horn. And where are we in the conversation? Well, there's another point, I'm afraid, that needs to be considered uh on the concept of internationalism. That is to say, Frederick Douglas was in strict solidarity with the Haitian Revolution, executed between 1791 and 1804, a successful revolt of the enslaved against French settlers and French colonizers. The revolutionary Haitians then began to put pressure and lead with British abolitionists on the United States of America, which led the United States to the brink of civil war in 1861, leading to the abolition of slavery. But look at what's happening today. Mr. Trump is threatening and probably will be successful in expelling uh tens of thousands of Haitians from these shores who will then be returned to an island that is in turmoil and turmoil not least because of opposition from the United States ever since its inception in 1804 in up to and including forcing the revolutionary Haitian government to pay a kind of reparations to the former enslavers. And in fact, you mentioned at the top my new book, The Capital of Slavery, Washington DC, 1800 to 1865. Well, slavery existed in the capital city of this so-called Empire of Liberty known as the United States of America. Not only did it exist, but it was abolished in 1862 before Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation of 1863. But I give you that historical detail to arrive at the final point which is that the enslavers in Washington DC received reparations for their lost investment that is to say whereas the enslaved who gave their labor for free did not receive reparations and have not received reparations to this very day. What kind of nation is it that allows enslavers who steal the labor of Africans to then profit handsomely after that inhumane system is abolished? Now, of course, we can continue to rattle on about the indignities and injustices that stain this land. But if we are to move towards action, perhaps we may consider uh extending more solidarity to the Caribbean community, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, which are pressing the European nations uh as we speak for reparations and are meeting in Adis Ababa, Ethiopia in September 2025 with the African Union to press this agenda of reparations. Uh, I'll be very interested to see if black Americans with all their bluster and blather uh wind up in Ethiopia for this important meeting because inevitably on the agenda will be pressing sanctions against the Trump regime for the depradations that it has inflicted upon black Americans with regard to police terror, not least, and also not least with regard to opposing reparations to the descendants of the enslaved, which are just due. And finally, he says, "Americans, your Republican politics, small R, not less than your Republican religion, small R, are flagrantly inconsistent." And Dr. horn. There there does not seem to be enough of our elected representatives that want to continually beat the drum of those inconsistencies, even as we're looking at this vote uh towards this huge ugly boondoggle called Donald Trump's uh tax bill. Huh? Oh my goodness. I It's It's monstrous. It's a monstrosity that is about to be implanted on this land. But once again, we have to try to understand how and why it is that the Trump base, 77 million strong, disproportionately comprised of settler descendants and the working class and the middle class, how and why it is that they continue to support the tangerine tyrant. because I think speaking by way of analogy that in some ways they are comparable to the black majority in pre994 South Africa which said yes we will absorb the pain of sanctions because we see that as a short-term pain for a long-term gain. I'm afraid to say that the Trump base they're thinking along parallel and similar lines. They think that this is a short-term pain that will lead to the long-term gain of returning the nation to either a the Jim Crow era or heaven for fin the antibbellum era, the era of enslavement of Africans and certainly they are making a wager that ultimately they will be uplifted in the long term. Well, I don't think that that is realistic. I think that it's going against international currents. I think that it will basically, if not reverse, lead the United States into yet another civil war. But once again, if we are to push back against this fascist attack, we'll need more education. We'll need more agitation. We'll need more organization. And we have just about two minutes left. And to your point, uh, uh, Douglas used the word inconsistent and as you talk about the MAGA believers, they are being sold a myth, make America great again. And lies are being told to them to sell that myth. and they and some of them as you look at the reactions from these um town hall meetings are asking wait a minute I did or saying I didn't vote for this and what they really mean by that is wait a minute you weren't supposed to do this to me and that could take us into Thomas Frank's book what's the matter with Kansas but uh I just want to throw that out there but again Douglas talks about inconsistent these folks are being sold a myth and they're being told lies eyes in the process of selling that myth. We got about a minute and a half. And per Douglas, I think we need to recognize that these lines and myths did not appear magically and mysteriously in the 21st century. They go back to 1776 when there was talk about we the people. The major asterisk that suggested that we the people did not include for example black people did not exclude include indigenous people did not include a goodly number of women of whatever ancestry for example. So this is a crime scene in which we're living in. Speaking of the United States of America, if there were any justice, there'd be a yellow tape around the Canadian border, along the Pacific coast, along the Atlantic coast and the Gulf of Mexico throw out the window. This idea about the Gulf of America, as Mr. Trump has put it. But once again, we can continue to denounce these injustices and indignities. Okay? Or alternatively, we begin to educate, agitate, and engage in organization. Dr. Gerald Horn, as always, thank you so much for your time. Greatly, greatly appreciate you fitting me in to this very tight schedule. And as all, we look forward to getting your book so we can get you on and talk about that. Uh, enjoy the rest of the holiday. Talk to you soon. Good luck. Thank you folks. Dr. Woomer Leon here. Inside the issues is where you are. SiriusXM126 overview. A whole lot more on the other side. Keep it locked right here. We state these facts only to let you know that those of us who are revolutionary pan-Africanist is not because we love revolution. It is historically determined and we have no alternative but to follow history and to use history for the benefit of our people. to the people. Power to the people. Free political prisoners. Free political prisoners. All political prisoners. All political prisoners. [Music] [Applause] [Music]