today I sat down with Stephen Malvin founder of Malvin Golf a brand that helped flip the script on what golf looks like feels like and who it's for It started as a creative project turned into a cultural movement And in this episode we talk about how the evolution happened from shifting inspiration is trusting your gut and design Steven breaks down what it takes to build a brand that actually moves people Let's get into it One of my favorite pieces that I put out about the Malin brand was probably like last year around this time It was the Malbin Moodborne experience and I know like I said like you're super active in social It was a 15inute spot that I did on Instagram I don't know if you remember this but yeah kind of I I took like a screenshot I was on like Google Chrome found a Google Chrome extension that was autoscroll because I was really curious Um I think at the time you guys maybe had like 6,500 or 7,000 posts on Instagram which is wild And I was like I wonder what this dude was posting back in the day because he's been on record just talking about how Mobin's been like started out as just a mood board So I was just really curious on like what some of the look back stuff was And again like that all the scroll thing it probably took a good 45 minutes an hour to get all the way down to the bottom of the page But again set up like a screen recording of the actual feed and then posted that on IG and it did really well But I think from that like it was really interesting to see back in the day like what you were interested in and like what was catching your attention And again like OG Instagram days the stuff that we shared on on the feed was always really interesting too Like how can you from from a a perspective of like inspiration Like how much has your mode of inspiration like changed over time since the beginning of that IG page to like where we are now I mean now I have like a I have like a burner account like a IG like burner account that I do the same thing I did at the beginning and I use it for all of like inspiration and mood boards for different collections And I'm designing like spring summer 27 right now And so I still kind of do the exact same thing It's like I went I went to vocational school in in high school in Virginia Beach and I learned visual communications and then I went to art school in Atlanta and um learned you know graphic design and and all of this stuff But as an artist like reference is references and research and like that's the fun part Like doing the actual graphic design is probably only like 10% of it So it's how much how how great the design is comes from how great your inspiration was and like the rabbit holes you went into to find you know all of the inspiration And so when I started in like high school in Virginia Beach when I started there were no computers or we had just starting to learn the Apple computer and such But like if you wanted research and if you and I did I that's was like a huge part of it You would have to go to the library and then you would have to xerox copy and you would have to resize stuff to go back and then like sketch it and draw it And the first posters I ever designed were like taping airbrush you know Smokey the Bear posters in public high school at vocational school And so like you would have like the SPCA or the you know wildfire uh foundation or whatever Smokeoky the Bear is They would come in and they would present to us and pitched and and and we would have to then like do go through the ideation and do thumbnails and do hundreds of thumbnails which would turn into like a dozen renderings and then from the dozen renderings there would be two that would be the best of the hundred thumbnails turned renderings turned whatever But in order to do a hundred thumbnails back then you would have to go to the library like I said and photocopy and xerox and copy and xerox and like rent books and borrow books and then not lose the book take the book back So that's where it all began with me like understanding the importance of reference and history and research and you know inspiration And so like I still do it constantly I just the phone makes it so easy to go down rabbit holes and find like digging and digging and digging and digging and digging and deeper and deeper and finding like more and more cool stuff and then taking all that stuff and putting it into like mood boards and inspiration and storytelling and such and then using that when I go for a collection I'll do like you know like if a collection if we're designing a collection it's like I need like two or three all over prints and probably six different graphics that could be ball markers or patches or or headcover graphics or t-shirt graphics or hat graphics or whatever it may be So the only way to do that well is to research like crazy So in some instances it hasn't really changed from a creative process Um I'm just like obviously the cadence of content and the Minoff Instagram went from just the mood board of something I never knew what it would turn into or be until now it's like a very packed schedule of like on Monday we have to post this because then this is happen Tuesday and Tuesday we have to post this So it's less sporadic It's a little more like you know curated in a sense for business needs more than just an inspirational hodgepodge of uh whatever I felt like posting But like I said there is another Instagram that I use internally with the designers and illustrators and freelance people etc That um I'm gonna have to get that uh handle on the side That's that's what that that's the one I'm on the most Um when it comes to that stuff I love that it it's funny that you reference the process from back in the day was a lot more like hands-on like now through screens and it being like digital properties like I've also like had in internal conversations with our team when we're creating even just like simple logos and stuff like everything feels when you look at it very digital whereas like even a lot of course design uh course logo design stuff like a Burberry as an example are very handdrawn and I see a lot of that like style and heritage in like your craft just because you had on like those hand hand moments whereas you weren't engaging so much in digital properties Like how much has that changed Like what are your thoughts on just the way that people go about executing quote unquote art I mean I design on paper and with my brain and then I use the computer as an instrument to vectorize it so that I can make it into an embroidery or screen print right Like so I'm not uh I think when you design with the computer it looks like you designed with the computer When you design with your brain in your hands then it looks like you designed with your brain in your hands So like I I've studied typography and like font and kerning and spacing and um you know like I learned calligraphy so that I would be better at graffiti you know things like that So like penmanship is historically like one of the most beautiful and fascinating things to me And that goes from like you know wedding invites like handwritten wedding invites all the way to like graffiti um you know graffiti and handwriting and and just everybody has different handwriting and so like I understand typography and I love typography So if I design by hand it looks like I want it to look But if I just use the computer it's just going to look like I typed a [ __ ] font that like everyone has So I don't like use the computer to design I like to use my hands and my brain and you know research and references for inspiration not what fonts Adobe loads your Illustrator app with No for sure that and like there's references all around your work too Like if you're sitting on a computer like it's very tunnel vision you don't see it up against this is what I talked about even just like a podcast cover a small example of just like what is this going to look like against the library of podcast covers like is it going to stick out is it going to be memorable those are all like the internal conversations I always have about design Yeah Like when I used to do I had an agency that I ran in New York City and I remember one time doing like cereal box design and um different food We had a food client I was designing different packaging for food to like print it out design it Like again going back to like go from a 100 thumbnails to you know seven renderings to three that you're not sure about and then print those three out glue them to a cereal box and go in the grocery store and put it on the shelf with the other cereal boxes and see like does it stand out Will it sell if someone's walking down the aisle are they going to notice it or is it going to just blend in with every other thing on on the joint So yeah it's all like knowing what you're designing it for is important to know what the end result is is going to be Even with like with my social media team like we have another burner account that's like private for every everything you see that goes on Mvin Goff's Instagram has already been posted on another account so that I can get on the phone and I can go through it and the copywriter can go in and people can make notes and all the the the image on the fourth slide should be switched with the image on the sixth slide so it tells a better story or whatever But like the more time you have to test it in the real world of where it's going to be So if you're doing a podcast artwork and you know that's going to end up on you know uh YouTube or whatever the hell like screenshot a YouTube channel and put it in with everything and and do like four or five options so that you'll be able to see which one looks better to you you know And a lot of this stuff is like when I say it looks better to you you know there's no one that's going to give you an answer of like which one looks better It's it's a personal taste thing right So like if you dress today and you wore a green hat you wore a Stuy crew neck that looks good to you If you go to the coffee shop and five people say "Yo I love your fit You look great today." Well then you're just lucky cuz you didn't dress for the people at the coffee shop to say "You look great today you dress for you to look good So I think a lot of it comes down to like trusting your gut and if it was the cereal box and putting it next to 40 other cereal boxes and be like is am I presenting this the way that it looks good to me and then if other people think it looks good and they grab that verse the Tony the Tiger or the Froot Loop [ __ ] box then God bless You're going to make a lot of money because it works But if they don't then they don't But you can't design for other people and you can't design to think of like if I do this will this person buy it It's like I'm going to do the best work I can possibly do and it good work should take you to good places 100% Yeah I mean the the the reps are important like you said the world building is also really important I found speaking of like art and art direction I found this tweet that was really interesting I want to read and get your your take on it but it goes um Virgil has this quote This is the tweet You create art so that people can build on top of it Malvin will be fascinating case study 10 years from now being the black sheep in the industry that other brands eventually begin building on top of He's also quoted saying "What seems preposterous actually becomes a new norm Time will tell." What's your thoughts on that Taylor Yeah of course all that stat I think it's like you know you um I heard something like um something like first they hate it then they then they um you know accept it and then they love it type of deal right And so it's all about like conditioning And then like I think you know I'm a fan of art I'm a fan of culture And I'm a fan of design And like I'm a fan of like every golf brand which is nuts because when I snowboarded a ton and lived in Colorado like I only liked one snowboard company I didn't like every snowboard company but like I love Tailor Made Titalist Callaway I love every equipment company I like Shrixson and Bridgestone I like I there's not one I don't like And it's the same I like all the big clothing brands I like all the upand cominging clothing brands because I love golf so much that like how am I not going to like students golf Like what would be what's wrong with me How am I not going to like you know RLX Like I love it It's not even like a like I actually love all of these brands So I think it's just like I feel like it's about doing what you think is right and and trying to like validate and give like permission to be who you are and design and trust your gut and and it's like you have permission to be on the PGA tour Mhm If we can make it on the PJ tour and we can open stores all over the world and I can start all this from like a sketch pad and a napkin design and um you know figuring [ __ ] out as we go along then like why can't you or why can't so and so Do you think there's any like moments or brands that you feel like you're building on top of I mean we talked about inspiration but obviously like culturally the the sports changed a lot Does it feel like any inspiration or moment points where you feel like as a brand you guys are building on top of I think it's more like not like golf brands I don't think I mean maybe golf brandwise is like Ashworth back in the day or like there's some for sure that like I'm a fan of all that stuff So like I don't think it's necessarily more that I think it's building on top of like you know graffiti and skateboarding and in hiphop and like um you know fashion brands and like just taking kind of the different touch points of my life that I live from like you know I grew up on a farm but I was skating and surfing in Virginia Beach Like that's how I grew up And my parents you know liked Willie Nelson and then I lived on a naval base and I would start getting mixtapz from like Red Man and then NWA at the same time So like then I like got a dated a chick who used to tour around with the Grateful Dead and then I went into that situation and then I moved to Atlanta after Colorado and I started [ __ ] with drum and bass and like this whole world and then back moved to New York City and you know was a promoter in New York City So I think it's just building on like everything that has got me to this moment And obviously I've been influenced by tons of different cultural stuff from living in Virginia then Colorado then Atlanta New York LA and now I'm up in Pebble Beach So you know I'm inspired in Pebble Beach and designing stuff and and and designing like thinking of like like what are me and my wife and kids going to wear like you know next fall when I'm dropping the kids off at school that that type of thing And so yeah I'm inspired and building upon I just got back from Vietnam and in the Philippines So like that will be with me that's something I can build on You know it's not like that's going to go away just cuz I flew back to San Fran So like that stuff I just got inspired by will then turn into something into the future No for sure I love that And I have like a few questions as it relates to Tinker Hatfield but he his like whole ethos on how he designs is like you guys are very similar in the sense of sketch pads and experiences that that wind up in your work from an execution standpoint Something that's always been funny like I get a lot of DMs from people that are looking for specific brands that like land in these different boxes And the way that I've always like described Malbin is as like a mixtape which is funny that we just got done talking about music Like it's it feels very experimental Um almost like freestyle even like OG back in the days when you're saying where it's a little bit more sporadic Obviously like there's still structure in mixtape On the opposite end you have an Adidas that feels like an album brand It's more polished There's way more money and way more structure behind all of it It feels like from drop to drop everything kind of flows together But and I think in these worlds like both are necessary like is there a specific way that you and your team has like described the brand over time Has it changed at all You know it's like I've lived I'm almost 50 I'm 48 years old and so I've been inspired by a ton of stuff So like I'll give you example like I'm I've been living in Carmel and I've been I learned the great um the great tradition of foraging for chantrell mushrooms and porchini mushrooms So porchinis grow under pine trees and chantrell mushrooms grow under oak trees but so does poison oak you know And so everything's designing into like a thought process of like I want to play golf in the morning at the preserve and then on the way home I want to stop and fill a basket up of chantrell mushrooms to then come home clean them cook them and have risoto right So like I'm going to do that but I do need clothing in that dream Right So now I need to design a collection that's called foraging fairways and it's you know it's coming out next year And then I got to design like footwear because I designed some boots with a collab partner because I need boots when I'm hiking through [ __ ] poison oak and [ __ ] And then I got to do really cool gloves And I got to do a foraging knife with a brush on one side of it so I could brush the tops of the mushrooms So it's like I don't have any reason why I can't do that where Adidas definitely has massive reasons why they can't do such a thing So I can't just like like I can have a random idea and be like you know my whole company is built on like the like the why not in everything It's like I want to do a mushroom foraging collection that I want to design and etc And it's like well why not Like sure I can do it There's no one that's going to tell me I can't do it I'm not based off of only what you know Dick Sporting Goods is going to buy and they're big chains So like it's funny though like you know the it's it's these big companies have a lot of pressure from like their big chains right where like if you know Golf Galaxy and Dick Sporting Goods and you know Roger Dunn and people like that don't like what they're making then it's big big big problems you know like it's massive problems where like it's a weird thing but sometimes I joke where it's like these big brands like the creative director is the buyer at dicks you know and that's just like the reality of how the situation is and I know that all of those big brands feel that pressure and you'll have like big boxes dictating the creative direction of a whole brand right Which is like wild to me where like I don't have that Like I don't I don't sell it dick sporting goods you know what I mean It's like we we I know who our community is and I know who our audience is and we're growing really quickly and I know that like I'm lucky enough to if I think something's you know awesome then like historically other people agree to some to some degree right So like that's a blessing that I was like same as like I was saying like you dress yourself If other people say you look great then thank God But it's not I'm not dressing for dicks I'm dressing for myself for this dream And if other people want to participate in that and they want to be a part of that as well then like I'm here for it you know That's that's all I could really do Um and that's no difference if it's like the Mobin Golf and Ski Club or Golf and Bass Club like I'm doing a new golf and bass club collection And it's like I grew up working on a golf course when I was 12 years old in Virginia Beach called Hell's Point And I used to play golf and then at the sunset we would go out and we would catch largemouth bass That's just what we did So like it obviously is easy for me to tap back into like 13-year-old me doing this experience of like catching bass while I'm like chipping and putting at sunset on a green that has a a lake in front of it you know So so it's growing up and living through these different you know things are what are driving the sporadicness of it in the outside view of us being you know and it's another thing It's like doing like a Willie Nelson collaboration and then you know a month later doing a a Ghost Face Killer collaboration I love Wu Tang Clan and I love Willie Nelson That's just how it is It's not I don't know why I do I mean I could assume why I lived in New York and my mom loves Willie Nelson You know what I mean But like I actually genuinely love both Ghost Face and Willie Nelson And so I think it's okay for you to love both of those thing and you to be passionate about both And so we did a you know a collaboration with both but not I'm not like only like a old school hiphop head Like I got like Chief Keef collaboration too is coming right now with the Glow Gang you know and there's a lot of these things are like personal relationships where I've been friends with Ghost Face for 15 years probably You know Futura I've known for probably 20 years that we have a collaboration coming out with Futura And so someone who works with Willie Nelson that I've known for 15 20 years hit me up and said "Yo I work with Willie and they want to do a project with golf and your name came up Would you be down?" And it's like "Of course I'd be down It's [ __ ] Willie Nelson." It's so funny cuz I have like a take about we talk about influencers and stuff all the time and like how they're impacting culture but from like a macro standpoint something that nobody talks about that I like really got insight from at the PGA show was like buyers Like there's you don't want to be the person like you said you don't want to be the individual in the room that makes the the creative decision that wounds up being the wrong decision that if it doesn't get bought in it tanks a brand or tanks a company from just a number standpoint Whereas you're just goes back to like the mixtape reference Like you guys just move faster you have taste you you there's still structure but you go based off it's a mixtape It's not a massive record Like you don't have to take it on tour Freedom Yeah like it's the freedom of being able to just do a song and put it out and like see how the world likes it but I'm not doing it for the sales I'm just doing it because I think it's fly And if other people do too then great you know and and and I think there's like a level of like understanding and learning and you know we're having like I hired a CEO and he's brilliant and like it's really great to work with professionals that understand it So you know like when I design some weird [ __ ] and I'm not sure about it and then I don't care but I do I am a realist and realize you don't want to put yourself in a bad situation but then it's like don't ever not make it Just order it but order it appropriately So buy a small amount of something if it's you know bugged out because that's if if it's risky don't not make it Don't not put the song out But just realize that like you're putting it out because you want to put it out You're not putting it out because if I put this out I'm guaranteed X amount of money Then that stuff starts to be weird And then you you lose what we were originally started to do it for You know like those big golf brands like they have to do like they have to do like 30 prints a year that will go on like synthetic polos every year So if you worked at one of these companies for 10 years you've produced 300 prints So that's why you see [ __ ] where you see like palm trees and you know uh daquiries on all over prints in like Maine that are all designed on screens too where it doesn't have that like personality hands also it's it's the pressure it's like I have to do 30 more I have to do 30 more I have to do 30 more I have to do 30 more So of course you get burned out and you start just putting [ __ ] out there because like you're burnt and you're only doing it because like your merchandising team makes you do 30 prints and you have to do 30 prints to put on quarter zips and polos and then shitty weird colors and then you're selling like you know cactus all over prints that are made for like Arizona but you're selling that in like Chicago is like the last time I went to Chicago I didn't see any [ __ ] cactus But why every pro shop do I go in in the Midwest has like cactus and palm tree all over prints on synthetic weird polos It's like it's just lazy It's not even lazy It's just dictated by you're just checking a box It It goes back to the buyers Like that's what they're asking It's for the buyers It's it's it's not lazy It's just that's what the buyer wants So make me 30 more printed 30 more all over prints and like shut up with all that other [ __ ] Like just give me the 30 all over prints and we'll keep the massive boat going you know Like we're a small boat and small boats take fast turns big boats take slow turns you know Like we can come up with an idea and implement it in like a day Well that's where I want to go to to to to your guys' pacing Like it is unreal This is something that I constantly talk about but like first off how in the world um do you do you guys keep that pace And like is that all intentional Like how far out are your guys' release calendar in terms of collection that you're and then I work faster than the you know like the production team and things like that So like I said I'm designing spring summer 27 right now And I have these handofthe-art things we do which are like the add all over the place things the bass club the ski club the tackle club uh foraging fairways you know all of these different things So we do one of those a month and then we do basically two different six month storytelling So that would be spring summer fall winter Yep With the 12 hand of the artist in between one a month And then we have collaborations and brand partnerships that get sprinkled in there as well And then we also design our icons collection which is like an ever uh basics if you will icons And then we do our entire performance you know collection right So there's a lot of things going on at once And I guess the answer to like how do we do it It's by staying really far out in advance That's the only way I can do it without like crippling my team or like making people have like panic attacks you know It's like we're designing so far out that like I'm and I'm also designing stuff where like foraging fairways I designed it like a year year and a half ago and I think it's going to come out in like November But like I'm not dictating when things come out either It's like I have a dream This is the dream I'm going to design it I'm going to do XYZ I know the photo shoot's going to look like this Here's the visual center Here's the color story Here's the graphics Here's the all over print Here's the merchandising plan of what bodies it should go on Here's what I want it to be And then I get it to that point and I'm like "All right let me know when I need to do the photo shoot." But I don't care if it's in two months or 24 months It's like I really don't care because I'm already moving on and I only work like the first maybe 15 20% of the process and then I work the last 15 20% So I work yeah I work at the beginning and I work at the end and I leave it alone in the be at the middle like I just stay out of it the whole like tech packing sampling fitting ordering merchandise plan like all that stuff um forecasting wholesale like I'm not involved with any of that but then at the end I come back in and I'm very very very excited to like finish what I started if you will Has there has there been anything when you do get ready to close stuff out that you caught and you're like "This isn't hitting the way that I thought it or want it to hit where you either iced it or you kind of try to just push through." I will do like a review of like when you have everything in you know and that's normally like right when we get that review is also when I'll start to like pair everything together and like kind of do like the style out if you will So it'll be like you know and then yeah if something's nuts I'll just say don't this doesn't you know and there's also I have really good people who are like fit people and they're like this you know we I'm doing women's performance right now and we're on like version four of the women's leggings you know what I mean And it's like so but again I don't have to launch it at any certain time So like yeah most of our business is direct to consumer and yeah we're in pro shops and we're you know here or there and retail uh boutiquey fashion spots in pro shops but like the majority is direct to consumer So if I'm planning on something coming out in April and it turns to May it's like it doesn't matter Yep It's not like I have to cram it and and like push something through that doesn't feel like a good fit I could just say we're not going to do it Is there like either an article of clothing a specific product or a collection that you would point to to be like this is Malbin The best representation of Malbin I think that Heather that Heather athletic gray suit I think Jason Day wearing sweatuits on tour is like the most like flyest silhouette I've ever seen anyone golf in Mhm Like just the look the l like the look of him playing golf that comfortable and shooting 64 at Pebble you know It's like damn this is it And just like the photo him like and his caddy like walking down like number nine with the ocean in the background at Pebble wearing a black on Saturday and a heather gray And you know that was Jay's idea he wanted to do that and that's what he's comfortable wearing and such And it was like when I was on the driving range with him that Sunday morning it first of all Saturday he wore a black sweatsuit right Crew neck pants but it had rained and such So I don't think anyone noticed that it was they thought it was a rain outfit because of it fits They thought it was like a rainsuit And then Saturday Sunday he wore that Rocky Balboa Heather Heather Gray athletic you know I mean it was wild My my my group chat just exploded that day But it's so sick that he did it And we're on the range and like Colin came up to me and he's like "Dude he's wearing a sweatuit." I'm like "Yeah the guy's [ __ ] the back." Like he wanted to wear it It was his idea Like he wanted to wear the thing He's like "I can't believe he's wearing a sweatuit." Like he can't And like when we walked down the range like not only the players but the caddies were like breaking their necks looking at him Scotty Sheffller came up and was like "Dude you're wearing a sweatuit." And he Jay Jay told him he said "Someone had to be the first one to do it It might as well be me mate." And now he's like "You are such a legend." And like he that's how Jay looked at it It's like what's wrong with it He didn't have It's crazy cuz that's that's everybody's like go-to is like just the gray on gray the black like everybody has a sweatuit in their closet that they wear Yeah It's wild It's insane Um the other thing that we kind of talked about a little bit but at the beginning was something that I like really appreciate from your perspective is just like what's going on around you Um and I know that you're like mad competitive like I I know that that's in there Uh but you also have like this awareness of what other brands are doing in and out of golf Um and projects like around you in a way add to like the value of what you guys are trying to do in the space which is interesting Like where does that come from Like your respect and admiration for what's happening around you but being able to still remain competitive but know that like again what's happening around you is adding value I mean I think that like competitionwise like I'm my only competition in a sense that like if I stay inspired and I stay excited about life and design and you know doing stuff then like I don't really have to worry about what some other people would say is my competition or something And um also I think that like the you know like I I lived in New York when like all of the urban brands right like Iniche and Fat Farm and Echo Unlimited and PNB Nation and like all of these brands that like I love and and and watched that all happen But like it takes an army to like it takes a bunch of brands to make a movement Like one brand can't do it by themsel right Like Russell Simmons kind of made magic turn from men's wear with suits to like Nas at the Williesco booth Like that that happened you know and like I watched it happen So as much as people think it's competition it's like everyone's doing it for the same point you know and I feel like it's almost like a avalanche and I'm on like a snowboard in the front of the avalanche And the more people who do it the faster it pushes us and the more we all do it together and like strengths and numbers and things like that And it's not only you know it's obviously seeing our brand like inspire other brands right But it's like on both sides It's seeing like the upandcomers feel like wow like if they're doing it we can do it which I love You gave everybody the the green light And then on the other side it's seeing the big brands being like well if they're doing it we should do it you know And so it's like it's it's it's like a double-sided sword of like giving the green light both directions Like it's okay for you know big brands to do XYZ and it's okay for small brands to do XYZ and if like we're inspiring I people will say things like you know Min's disruptive it's like I'm not trying to be disruptive at all I'm trying to be like inspirational and make people believe in themselves and make people proud of being different and things like this And so if big brands can you know drink that Kool-Aid and get involved and start doing that and pushing that messaging then thank God And if young brands can do it then that's the best news ever So it's you know like and it's a big world dude It's like I just came from Vietnam and Philippines and like this little [ __ ] fishbowl of America that we live in at some points it just gets very like you know golf is is huge but it's small and like if I'm looking at like the magazines in golf magazines in Korea Vietnam and Manila which I was in Philippines last week like they look the exact same as the golf magazine azines here right And like Carl's bad is every golf brand right So like if you're just like looking it on that level like it's very small but the world's very big And there's like weird [ __ ] that cultural things that people like argue with here about like tradition verse creativity and things like that but like they don't they don't care about that [ __ ] in Japan Like that's not their they don't wake up worrying about what like someone in Texas thinks compared to what someone in Portland Oregon thinks Like that's not an discussion that people in Vietnam have And you know building 50 new golf courses in the next like two or three years just in Vietnam So it's like it's a big world and like fighting and being competitive and like going after people it doesn't you know it doesn't do any good for anybody So I just try to like cheer for everyone and you know find my lane and and kind of stay in there Yeah I mean that's always like a weird consistent sentiment that I get from people that will just like randomly DM me They always ask like "Do you feel like golf in general is oversaturated?" And I'm like your your feed your bubble like the world that you are experiencing might be saturated but like there's so much going on in and around the sport that you cannot there's just no way that you're experiencing all these different like insane touch points Um and then going back to your point like it just it takes a village to like move the needle Like yes there there's some cultural and significant moments that pop up but there's so much work that's happening behind the scenes Are there any brands in golf that you think should be getting more love that people just aren't paying attention to Yeah I mean look it it's it's up to them to get the love Like it's you got social media you have a phone you have everything you need It's not it's not about people shouldn't be sitting back like I don't get the love It's like then go do something You know what I mean If if it's if it's tough in your position then on this side of the street then [ __ ] cross the street You have all the access you need You have a phone You have YouTube You have social media You have you know you have everything you could possibly need You have a TV studio on your phone You have Riverside to do podcasts You have what else do you need This [ __ ] doesn't cost anything You know I think people start out with the old school way of thinking of like I'm going to start a brand and I want to be like this brand and I'm going to make a graphic and I'm going to put it on a hat and a t-shirt and this that and the other and then you're going to go borrow money from your cousin and this person and that person and go make a [ __ ] couple hundred shirts and then be sad that no one's buying them It's like who the [ __ ] did you think was going to buy them You got 800 followers on Instagram and you haven't posted in three weeks Who's going to buy them It's not It's like who Why do you think someone was going to buy them Like I think it's people get a little bit naive to think that like oh I'm going to make this great product which is a hat or a polo or crew neck or whatever the hell and then like people are going to buy it because it's fly It's like no they're not they're not gonna buy it just because it looks good Like you have to figure out like that's what people always hit and they're like "Do you have any advice?" And I'm like "Yeah pay pay attention to your community and build your community and build your following and build your email list and build your social media and listen to your audience And if if your community wants to buy a hat from you then make a hat and they'll buy it But don't buy a hat and then try to I mean we're selling golf balls like and they're selling really well right This Min um Tour M But like I never started the company and thought "Oh I'm going to sell golf balls." Yeah Yeah I wasn't uh I never did that And funny story I'm at Pebble Beach putting with the ball like the day it launched I was puttying at the pebble down by the first te puttied and I look over to my left and Scotty Cameron's coming out of one of the little stores and I was putting with my wife and I'm like babe that's Scotty Cameron She's like no it's not I'm like it's [ __ ] Scotty Cameron dude with there they are So I run over to him and I'm like Mr Cameron it's great to see you I'm Stephen Min He's like uh yeah I I know I know who you are Good to see you And I said yeah good to see you sir And he's like "How is it being in the golf ball business?" And like I just golf balls like yesterday you know Were they in the store Yeah they weren't in my store They were in No they weren't selling at Pebble Hell no I was going to say and I'm just putting them out here But anyway I said I said uh he said "How is it being in the golf ball business?" And I said "Well I don't imagine I'm going to get rich or poor off of it but you know I play golf every day so I needed a golf ball and it's a really great ball and I love the ball and it works great for our brand partnerships and it works great for collaborations and you know I don't want to call titleist when I'm doing a collaboration with [ __ ] Tag Hoyer and what titles has to do with this I don't do my own balls So when I do a project with Tag Hoyer I can put Tag Hoyer on our balls and that's the ball I can play Yeah And and he's just like you know but it was just interesting It like I didn't set out to make putters or golf balls or like when I started the brand I had no idea what it would be And I'm still figuring out what it is you know Like I didn't have a business plan I didn't have a expectations And if you don't have expectations then you can't let yourself down and feel like a loser You know like my expectation was like get keep myself and my family in the golf world Like that was it It wasn't any deeper than that you know and like golf is escapism is at its finest And it's like the golf world is amazing and there's opportunities everywhere in the golf world And that whole invest in golf thing is like that's how we launched the brand withinvest in golf And like you know your life can change in golf at any second The people you get to rub shoulders with and the opportunities you get yourself in It's insane being in the golf world at like how much opportunities you'll have just from being in the golf just from playing golf you know And like a wise man once told me that um the lion that waits by a water hole will always get a zebra And like the golf world is the biggest water hole ever Yeah So it's like your good things are going to happen You're going to make money You're going to figure your way out You're going to be safe Like when I moved to Atlanta I didn't have any clue what was going on I went from Virginia to Colorado to Atlanta Now I'm in art school in Atlanta And Atlanta was [ __ ] still is a wild place So I was there I didn't know what the [ __ ] was going on I didn't know which way to go And there was so much new stuff for my brain that it was like "Fuck I'm going to just go Caddy I'm going to go to Atlanta National Caddy because I know I'll be safe I know I can make money I know I'll find a group of people that will be my tribe." And like that's what happened And next thing you know I'm like playing poker with the other caddies and they're from you know 60 years old to 16 years old and you see them same dudes every day So I would caddy in the morning and go to art school in the afternoon or I'll go to art school in the afternoon and caddy in the afternoon and I'd do that [ __ ] five days a week and and it it kept me it saved my life multiple times and that was definitely one time where my life could have got turned upside down pretty quick being got a little wild Yeah It's funny because like I like I had mentioned I'm a huge fan of of Tinker Hatfield He has a quote that says "When you sit down to design something what you draw and design is a culmination of everything that you have seen and done in your life previous to that point which is basically the entirety of this conversation that we've had." Like you being around the world your family's like very involved You've built out your team Like what do you think you've learned most about yourself um just building Maldin I think that like being you know added out and being you know uh having like addiction in your blood is like it's not all good but it's not all bad And there are superpowers that come with the the the the with those two things you know like having dyslexia and like not being able to read properly and [ __ ] and like it that sucks on one side but it's also amazing because you look at all problems differently you know and I think that that's what makes things special is being able to look at stuff differently and and from a different view and bringing all of those learnings through and um being obsessive and like you know right now like on paper I should be designing I should not be designing spring summer 27 right like it's too far out but for me it's like well I want to you know like I want to I want to design a collection a month I want to design you know we we design two collections a year I want to do nine you know photo shoots for spring summer and nine for fall winter And I want to design When we hired our CEO he's like "Do you have any worries about bringing in the CEO?" I'm like "Yeah you're not going to let me do [ __ ] eight photo shoots a month That's my worry." Like I I don't see any of this as work It's like my wife sometimes says like "Can't you just stop working?" It's like "No I don't want to." Like if if if I'm painting a painting I want to keep painting the painting I don't it's not work Like I love design and I love storytelling and I love you know putting stuff out to the world and seeing the reaction from what came from my brain to paper to Instagram or TV commercial or whatever Like I love films and I love content and I love all of this stuff So it's not work It's like one of the it it the my company there's like I said the why not thing like instead of saying why just say why not and then the other one is like you know it beats work like but it's like we're going to Augusta and we're running a hospitality house and I have clients and I have guests and I have this and I have that and I'm doing podcast and I'm doing other people's podcast and JR's at the crib and we're doing that podcast and I'm doing you know six photo shoots during the week while we're there and hosting tons of people and have big ass meetings with like golf distributors from around the world and retailers and etc But it's like I I would do that for free It feels like the best week ever Yeah It's not work you know So I think just being so passionate about something I think it's like um you know I learned a long time ago like if you're going to do something in an entrepreneurial way you have to be so deeply in love with what you're doing that you will not quit And if you love it enough you won't quit So if you had a partner and you were dating someone and you know you're in love and your your your mom and your grandma and all your homies are like "Bro this isn't it This that person's not for you You can't this is bad bro." You tell your grandma to [ __ ] off You're so in love you know And it's like that's called blind love like you're so in love with what you're doing that if you look at logic you should not start a company It's too [ __ ] hard The the ups and downs are a [ __ ] roller coaster and it's good news in the morning and shitty news in the afternoon and it is [ __ ] hard But if you love it enough it's not It's just like part of it you know is part of it and you just keep going because you love it and it'll work itself out Yeah that body of work is important The reps is really important Speaking of things that are different from like a content perspective the I've noticed over the last like two to three years stuff that always rips is anything Tiger Woods related obviously The other random one is Ricky Fowler Like people just love Ricky And the the last one is most recently just Jason Dayitz Like how much fun are you guys having with JD and like the rest of your brand athletes It's great dude Like I'm a fan of Jason you know He's a great dad and a great husband and a he's a businessman and he's the [ __ ] best Like Jason's the best Like I you know like I love playing golf with him I like hanging out with him I love going to dinner with him I love his kids Like you know he's great But then on the other side like we have like Charlie is like one of my favorite people in the world Charlie Hall is no one better than Charlie And I think we've been very very lucky and got kind of two unicorns Like there's no one else like Jason on the men's tour and there's no one else like Charlie And we only have Jason and we have Yesper Paravic on the Champions Tour who's again he's one of my favorite people I've ever met in my life Yesper and his family are as cool as humans as you will ever [ __ ] meet And then on the women's side we have like you know we have Bianca Natalia and Meni and Gigi Like we have a great team and and and we're doing this whole like campaign that's actually launching you know this week And it's that the making the green the common ground And like there's a commercial one of the first ones It's Jason Day playing with Bat this dude Ra who's one of his best friends who he grew up with My son Remington and Antonia and Antonia is from up here in Monterey area and she plays on the Epson tour But filming those dudes playing golf together with that that group of people it's like Jay's on a private jet Rey's like borrowing money and Antonio's struggling on tour and Ra's like a personal assistant in Ohio or some [ __ ] But like when they go on the golf course they're best friends And it's like the golf course doesn't care how much money Jason has or how much money you know Antonia doesn't have Like they're they both got a 25 foot slider for birdie and like they don't care that Jason was world number one He's they're going to make the putt or he's not you know So there's this whole campaign and then the next one after that is Bianca who got like fourth place in the Olympics She's a Filipino star Uh Bianca with Gary Sheffield Jesus AO and um Miy and Miy Lee That's the second one And then the third one is Charlie Hall Natalia Scarface from you know Houston Scarface and um my boy Dalton who's the cowboy Kasanova So then we shot those four And then the last one is um Ryan Ruffles school boy Q this girl Nikki who's plays high school up in Monterey on her way to Harvard and um Yes Paravic right It's it's like you got the high school golfer chick and you got Yes Paravic and School Boy Q and Ryan Ruffles But like these are the most fun groups you could ever like to be a fly on the wall at just them having lunch and the banter of them in the group text talking [ __ ] to each other It's just like that's very important to me in golf And I think that it's nice to be able to put oursel out there as like not taking oursel that serious and like a journey to the course and the banter on the group text and picking out your fits and who you're playing with and what's the bet and who you're going to ride with in the cart and this person versus this person and all the banter and like who's getting strokes and what's the game and all that [ __ ] It's way more fun than like grinding out bogeies Like that's a grind That [ __ ] might be fun if you're lights out but I mean Tiger Woods they said when you've won all these tournaments like how many tournaments did you have your aame And he said he's like three Four wins like 80 times or something like told me three times he was really on Every other time it's a grind Golf's hard you know So it's like it's it's grinding is fun but it's not as fun as it is like you know the anticipation of the kill You get more dopamine than you do actually on the kill So like thinking I'm going to hit the best seven iron I ever hit right now That's when the dopamines release in your brain The anticipation of like I might do the impossible right now and make a [ __ ] hole in one with this seven hero shot and then you top it in the water You know what I mean It's like [ __ ] But then like in order to get back at it it's like okay well I top that one in the water Now I'mma drop but I might this [ __ ] eight hole might get up and down for [ __ ] bogey baby That is crazy Um so obviously like with the first major around the corner too like is there any part of you based off of what happened last year that just makes you want to like circle a few tournaments this year and like try to break the internet Nah that was a total accident what we did It was I had no idea Jay would be played with Tiger He liked certain [ __ ] out of our spring collection That internet turned something that was if I go to your crib for dinner and you say take your shoes off before I come in the house I would just take my shoes off and we would never talk about it again And that's really all that happened at Augusta They said "Mr Dave would you mind taking that vest off?" And he said "Yeah sure mate That's it." But then the internet and the divisiveness of golf and of humans and you got half the people yelling about this the other half yelling about that and it's like I'm in the middle like Mons and everyone just calm down Like it's not that serious None of this [ __ ] It's not real It's not real It's like for clicks and you know weird [ __ ] But like we're cool with Augusta and and and you know what I mean Like I'm friends with a lot of people who work at Augusta and like that's not nothing has been you can't make this stuff up Like if I tried to do that that wouldn't have worked You know what I mean It's again it's like if I set out to sell golf balls then I would have probably [ __ ] been out of business by now So I think it's just you know putting Jay in stuff he's comfortable with and and questioning you know what is golf attire and like being respectful at the same time but having that balance of like respecting the traditions and respecting the future and creativity and you know celebrating the differences of people and Jay's not exactly like all those dudes on tour He's not He's a human He's just not the same as them And I'm not like the creative slash buyers from Dicks you know like I'm not like them and Jay's not like every other dude at Augusta So it's like I'm excited just to be just to keep keep rocking you know And we got Jay in a couple days as he goes from wearing the Futura stuff to wearing some of our you know spring summer line that's much more GQ traditional clean understated Um Futura has been one of my favorite artists for his forever and um it's a culturally relevant moment for like Jason Day to wear a Futura Min collaboration at Augusta Like that already is crazy significant to me and to other people then great you know but like it's already like I got a you know we make putters limited edition putters like I have a ripping mallet putter futura edition and I got a Futura golf bag that like I'm gaming and it's like I could just tire now I could just that's it Like I don't know what else I could do fact that Jay's gonna wear it at Augusta it's like I mean you're not you know pedalling around a coffee shop waiting for a compliment like this is your body of work You you know it is what it is Exactly Well cool man I mean the last question that I had that I ask everybody on their way out um you could take a minute to think about it but what's the story behind the one item in your closet you'll never get rid of And like what does it mean to you Some dude gave me a uh a Scotty Cameron putter a very nice man as a birthday gift And he and he said "I I hope you like it It was expensive as fuck." And I'm like "Why'd you buy this [ __ ] thing for me bro I don't even use blade putters you know?" And then I looked it up and it's like worth like 30 grand or some [ __ ] And so like I just I don't even know what to do with it But I'm Should be in some museum somewhere I'm not getting rid of that [ __ ] I tell you that it's just in the in the garage in my in my [ __ ] man cave And then Remington has a set I had a Japanese um a Japanese club builder handmade forged irons and Japanese steel And he made me a set of blades And I'm you know I'm not going to start playing blades at this point I'm not going to a threeiron to pitching wedge hard enough man That ain't where I'm headed right now You know at this point in my career I'm not doing that But when Remington my 13-year-old when he went from US kids clubs they were teeny these little kids clubs So the next set and he played from probably when he was like you know six to 11 He played with those blades and they say Min on them and they're [ __ ] gorgeous So I got them in the man cave too And they have these little short ass Fuji Kura shafts senior flex shafts And when I asked Fuji I said "Well I don't know what shafts I got to get my man Fuji Pat who does it on tour for Fuji Kura He's like "Well Tiger just had Charlie Woods do like a three-hour fitting How about I just send you Remington the same shafts that Charlie's using?" I'm like "Yeah that'll work bro Just send that That's it." So I got that set out there and that one putter and anything else is up for grabs I don't I don't keep as much stuff I try to I try to uh you know be careful with thirst is uh travel lightly and and and and don't take too much stuff with you because thirst is a is a very dangerous thing You know what I mean For sure Well man I appreciate it Uh love the conversation We'll have to do this again I know people are like really antsy to hear from you Uh your availability is also something that I always really appreciate But um yeah appreciate you man Is there anything else you want to shout out on the way out No I'm good Thank you for having me homie Good [ __ ] Awesome See y'all around the corner All right that's a wrap for today's episode If you're feeling the vibe hit that subscribe button and drop us a quick review It helps us keep the conversation going and growing For more golf fashion follow us over at Scratch and Golf Projects We're always serving up style and stories that make this game what it is And if you're hungry for even more head over to scratch.gall where our collective stories live Until next time dress well and play fast Peace