Transcript for:
Matt Mcabe day 2 jen day 1

e for e for e e e for e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for all presses have made business before The Honorable B kenon Justice of the northwalk superior court and in the county of northwalk to our near to your attendant you shall be heard God Save The Commonwealth of Massachusetts this c is now open you may be seated 22117 the Commonwealth versus Karen Reid good morning Council good morning Miss Reed good morning jar so going ask you those three questions were you all able to follow the instructions and refrain from discussing this case with anyone since we left yesterday everyone said yes or nodded affirmatively were you also able to follow the instruction and refrain from doing any independent research or investigation into this case yes everyone said yes or noded affirmatively did anyone happen to see hear or read anything about this case since we left yesterday no no everyone said no or shook their head thank you very much may we have Mr M please I do all right Mr L whenever you're ready than your uh good morning sir good morning where um left off yesterday you had gone to bed on the 28th correct uh yes that's correct Friday night and at some point you woke up on the later in the morning on the 29th correct yes uh Saturday morning and uh do you recall sir what uh what awoke you on that morning yes I do what was that sir uh I awoke to um the screaming of Jen Jen Jen so when I woke up I thought there was somebody in my bedroom I kind of snapped up out of bed what the hell's going on looking around the room real realized my wife was actually on the phone and the screaming that you heard how loud was that sir it was loud enough to wake me up from a dead sleep I could hear it it was loud um obviously I was laying in bed and realizing after my wife was laying right next to me uh on the phone but it was a it was a loud Jen Jen Jen it was repetitive and uh do you know what time that was uh yeah shortly before 5: a.m. and did you recognize the voice that that you heard scream I did not recognize the voice and uh as far as that phone conversation went on for U well let me ask you this first as far as that phone conversation was concerned could you hear uh both sides of that conversation uh yes I could and that was based on the volume of the person speaking on the other end correct correct and eventually were're able to recognize or identify the voice on the other ends of your wife's conversation yes I asked my wife what the hell is going after I woke up and popped up looking around the room to find out who's in my bedroom assuming it was a kid one of my kids screaming um I asked my wife what is going on and I could hear her saying I'm on the phone with Karen she can't find John and from the course of um that conversation continued while you were in your bedroom is that correct uh yeah that conversation continued for a couple minutes I could hear the dialogue um and then again right back to Jen Jen Jen the repeating of my wife's name uh again as far as the the dialogue was concerned specifically from ending this re perspective what what if anything do you recall about that um she didn't know where John was and the last time she saw him was at the waterfall and about how long did that initial phone call or that initial conversation between the wife and defendant go on from when I woke up minute minute and a half two minutes I I don't know the exact time um and after give or take youall how that conversation ended wife H up uh yes they hung up the phone um I was laying in the bed my wife was next to me and I think my wife immediately called somebody else was calling uh friends that lived near the waterfall that happened to be out that evening and she started making those phone calls and as your wife was making those phone calls what if anything did you say to her objection what if anything did he say to her yes to I'm not going to let you testify to that next question with respect to uh the defendant statement the last time she saw um the Mr O'Keefe was at the waterfall U what if anything what if anything occurred to you in reference to that in reference to her saying she last saw him at the waterfall I then told my wife what are you talking about so I was I was not what you said sir but I think Mr asked you what you thought what you gathered from that I thought she was crazy and why was that because I saw her vehicle I saw the black SUV arrive to the um 34 fear viw that morning you had overheard the conversation from Mr O to your wife the night previous correct that's correct and so what happened then I I told my wife what are you talking about she was at not what you said to your wife all right sorry it's hard question Mr L so that he can answer her properly uh so your your wife made some phone calls and your pres correct yes she did and um following those phone conversations uh what if any other conversations did she have with the defendant that um there were multiple calls I don't recall what calls were made what time but the next call we were informing the defendant that wait we saw your car we saw you come to 34 fear viiew you you guys were there and I heard the response of I don't remember I don't remember going there and what if any other conversation do you recall in in those subsequent phone conversation that you overheard from the at um some moment um as I said my wife had made a couple phone calls and one of the calls with Karen Reed she blurted that she broke her tail light cracked her tail light something to that effect while we were um while Jen and I were still in the bedroom and she was on the phone and as uh your wife and you were in the bedroom and your wife is on the phone what if anything were the two of you doing um after my wife had made a few calls we were completely confused on where what hell John was um the thought process in our head at that moment was we knew that John had mentioned that he was potentially going to be be be meeting up with another person so we called that individual my wife called that individual to see if by chance again confused left at the waterfall we saw them at the house did John not go with her did did what happened did he get out of the car did he go somewhere else so we um proceeded to call a couple other people that we thought he possibly might have uh met up with or another individual from those other phone calls that you observed your wife making at any point in time other than her conversation with the defendant did did you observe her to have any conversation with anybody you're asking if my wife did what I'm asking is not to any content or anything like that but your wife made phone calls correct that is correct and when she made those phone calls Did You observe her conversing with anybody on the phone no she did not speak to anybody um nobody nobody answered any of our calls and at some point did you yourself reach out to Mr O yes I did and how did you do that I I know I texted him and I think I called him as well um pretty much where the hell are you I think it was when um Karen Reed and my wife left the were leaving my house I think I responded where the hell are you now Karen and Jen are out looking for you and in regard to those text messages did you receive any response from Mr DOI I did not and uh with regard to those typ you had Mr O programmed in phone is that correct yes I did and you would had prior conversations with him via text message and phone uh using that uh number that you had programed into your phone yes um so no response to the Tex as far as the phone call you place to Mr o'keef did he answer did speak with him at all I did not speak to Mr o'keef now um at some point do you and your wife would see downstairs uh my wife proceeded downstairs I remained in the bedroom and uh what is um what is the next thing that you remember occurring that um well I was getting dressed I put my jeans on my wife went downstairs she was going to make a coffee uh my wife and I were proceeding to leave we were going to leave our house and um make a drive to the house of the gentleman that my wife was calling that we possibly thought uh John could have met up with um and within that moment again I don't know the exact time I then heard um yelling out in my front yard and when you heard the yelling in your front yard where did you go I realized it was uh Karen Reed and I told my wife to please tell her to shut up she's going to wake up the whole neighborhood and where is it or when is this in relation to that first phone call when you sort of shoot up out of bed at least a half hour give or take again I don't know the exact time now at any point Point um after you hear the yelling out front uh you hear the defendant yelling out front what what what was she yelling at that point um she again repeated Jen Jen she she for some reason kept repeating my wife's name um I don't know if she got all the way to my doorway or my wife walked out but my wife had said I was actually relieved because I was like not again not thinking what happened to John happened to John I was thinking he was on somebody's couch um so I was like good I'm not going to look for him thinking my wife was going to go my wife said she is going to go with Karen to go uh find John and at any point in time that morning uh when the attendant arrived at the house did you did you actually go outside or look outside or I did not go outside I did look out the uh blinds of my bedroom window which is the closest to the driveway what if anything did you see when you looked out uh saw Karen's car in my driveway did you see defendant Miss Reed anywhere outside as well um I don't I don't recall physically seeing her I saw the vehicle I don't recall seeing her directly making any physical contact as far as seeing her now what if any concerns that you have uh in reference to your wife going out with with Miss Reed at that particular time I had mentioned to my wife um before she was leaving the house that they I'll allow this were your concerns my concerns were um she was going to be driving with Miss Reed in their vehicle in Miss Reed's vehicle and my concerns were that she had a broken tail light what I thought by a broken tail light was that her tail light was out meaning there was no light um and I didn't think it was a bright idea to be driving around with no physical light on the tail light particularly given the weather is that fair because of the weather correct and so um your wife then leaves with Miss Reed is that correct that is correct you know you have to see like who got in where as far as the car who was driving when they I did not see that no now was that within the same time frame that you were describing before about a half hour after you uh hear the initial call uh yes uh from when um from Miss Reed arriving at my house was yes half hour or so after the initial call and it wasn't long after before they proceeded to go to leave now at this time that you're looking out um from the blinds you see the the defendant's car and the dependant outside uh was it light out was it dark out what what are we talking about it was dark out and so they leave in your home uh with four children correct that is correct and when was the next time uh that you spoke to your wife um the next time I spoke to my wife was hour later um I received a phone call from her I don't I don't know the exact time but I'm gonna say about an hour hour so and without reference to much of the content of that all I'm really asking for is what if any indication did she give you as to where she was um she indicated a found John and um at u fair viiew and upon receiving that information where did you go I proceeded to finish getting dressed um and drove over to uh Fairview and when you got to Fair what have anything you see when you arriv when I got to Fairview I had come down through the Chapman Street entrance and as I proceeded down the hill towards the uh Albert residence I noticed all the uh First Responders fire engine Etc police cars um and I realized I was not going to be able to get to the Albert residence because it was all blocking um the street so I back back track turned around went back up Fair View to the top to Chapman took a left and took a left down Spring Lane which is a parallel Street to fair viiew and came down Spring Lane to Cedar Crest onto Fair viw so I could get to the alet household now during your drive from your home over to Fairview and and doing all that sort of turning around and coming back around the other way through C the cres what were the roads like was it was snowing uh careful driving and the snowing that you observed that morning when you drove from your house to Fair View what was that like in relation to the snowing that you observed when you were driving home from Fair View hours before uh much much thicker snow um much more snow on the ground much more snow to wipe off my car um and again I had I had to drive slow now when you come around to sort of the other side as far as far as the First Responders you mentioned police cruisers and a fire truck is that right uh yeah it might have been an ambulance there as well but yes you recall specifically seeing an ambulance I do recall seeing an ambulance I don't know if I saw it when I came down or if I saw it when I eventually parked the car but I do recall seeing an ambulance and when you parked the car where did you go I um proceeded onto Fair viiew and I parked the car um along the side of the road um because there was another vehicle um in front of me I believe the other vehicle might have been blocking the driveway but there was another vehicle right on the right on the side of the road as well now in addition to uh the other vehicles as far as Cruisers fire truck or whatever from First Responders what if any other vehicles or who if anyone else did you see outside um there was a um there was a it ended up being krie Roberts's vehicle was parked um as I was at the driveway Ford Explorer I think it was and again without any reference to the content of the conversation did you have any conversation with Miss Roberts at that time yes I did did you know Miss Roberts at that time I knew who she was um didn't really have a relationship with her but I knew who she was and how did you know who she was um friends through through the town um she did live in the Ponka par neighborhood though I believe she moved in and we moved out shortly after I don't know the actual time period um her kids were a couple years younger one one was one year younger than my child so I knew who her child was through through being the grade um beneath my youngest child through soccer and just to be clear when you talk about the Ponka neighborhood that's where you used to live on suck cliff and where Mr O used to live in the house that was was the F yes that's correct um so then after um conversation with M Roberts about how long that oh that that was a brief conversation um she informed me that she had to she was going to pick up the um well sorry she had follow me Karen was going she dropped she was dropping Karen off Karen off back at the house she was going to the hospital and she was going to pick up up um John's parents in brain Tre I uh I told her I would come with her to pick up the parents I could said the road conditions were pretty bad and um you know just for safety reasons I thought I would go with her help her um go pick up the parents um she informed me that Jen was in the house um Jen is waiting to be interviewed by the police so where did you go from there I then proceeded to the uh front door of 34 Fairview and when you got inside if anyone was inside when you got when I got to the front door um it was my wife uh Brian Albert Nicole Albert and um office of link and when you came in can you describe um starting with your wife Jennifer MC can you describe her demeanor when you first uh came into um shocked just face was drawn just kind of in awe the the whole all three of them were just looking like you know with a drawn face of I'm walking going what the hell is going on and just to be clear by all three of them you mean your wife Brian Albert Nicole Albert correct and just turning back briefly to the the phone conversation that you had from your wife which led you to come over to Fairview in first place how would you describe her demeanor on that phone call well um Matt we found John at F it was a quick conversation I didn't get any details now at some point um while you were at the house uh did you speak to uh mention officer l there is that correct that's correct call if there was any other officers uh in the house at that time or at any later time at that moment it was just office a lank at that moment um other offices came uh in the house a little later but at that moment was just office a link and at some point uh while you were at the house did you have any conversation or what if any conversation did you have with officer lank or any other offic uh yes offic of lank asked me to to step outside um and we spoke briefly he asked me about um if I knew what happened to John obviously I told him no I had no idea I'm just finding out right now um he asked me when I last saw John I told him I saw him at the waterfall we saw him at the bar um we hav't seen him I believe again Heat of the Moment I believe I said we saw his vehicle out front but we never saw John now at the uh the house on Fairview about how long were you there that morning I'm going to say give her at least four hours from the time that you got there from the time I got there yes and where did you go from there when I left VI of um I went back to my house on uh Jen and I's house home um as your children were still there is that correct my children all were all there correct and at some point after you arrived home uh if anyone else as far as police officers or anybody like that came came to your home that day um two um Mass state police offices um came to my house and um did you speak with those offic yes I did troopers from the state correct yes that's correct and as far as the Troopers that you spoke to do you recall what their names were uh yes um Trooper uh Michael Proctor and Trooper Yuri buenik if I said it right Closer Closer now on that uh on that date of January 29th 2022 had you met either Tri proor banic before I had never met them and where did they speak with you in the house uh well they first came in the house and um informed me they were going to interview my wife uh and asked me to leave the room I went up to my bedroom and at some points uh did they interview you as well yes they did and where was your wife when they interviewed you I'm assum I think she wasn't in the room with me I think she went upstairs um um as I said my kids were home I don't know if she went in the kids' bedroom to kind of wake them up and I don't know what she in the room when they interviewed you no she was not and in addition to the the Troopers came over to your house did your brother-in-law Brian Albert did he come over at any point in time around this yes he did and if you know did he speak with those Troopers as well yes he did and where were you and your wife when the two troopers were speaking to Mr Albert I was still upstairs in the bedroom your wife where was she I'm try she might have come up and seen me but I think she might have went in the girls bedroom I I don't recall if we were standing in the same room I think she might have went in my daughter's bedroom again my kids were starting it was you know I don't know the exact time 12:00 give or take so time to wake up so the the Troopers when they were speaking to Brian Albert Sor they were in the downstairs area the home yes they were and both you and your wife were upstairs yes that's my recollection now turn your attention to a a couple days later did you speak with any other Troopers in city I did I only remember the first name of one of them um it was a it was a it was a man and a woman I just remember Connor Conor something I don't know I don't know their names and where did that conversation occur I was in my first floor um Dynam room table and you know those same two Troopers that came on subsequent dat with the wife as well yes they did and sort of same Arrangement as far as where you were where she was at the time that you spoke with those two troop uh yes that's correct sure just uh briefly sir so um describing your wife's uh demeanor you described her the sort of being in shock is that correct yes that's correct have you seen your wife um display that kind of uh demeanor before or have you seen your wife in in sort of crisis mode over the course of the your relationship and your marriage um I I've seen her in um crisis mode I would call crisis mode um as well in the past and sort of typically how would you describe how she handles situations like that or what her is in those types of situations she is um very calm very calm and when just so it's clear to the jury so when you're talking about sort of Prior incidents in regards to sort of Crisis motives what what types of scenarios what types of incidents are we talking about well um uh previous deaths deaths of uh my parents my brother um she is the she's the one that can get in the room sit relax hold their hand um make the make them feel comfortable um she's much more I can't do that she's much more so she's done that with my family and she's also done that with our neighbor nothing further thank you sir all right Mr tetti thank you good morning Mr M good morning I'd like to start by discussing uh January 22nd the week prior to January 29th uh do you remember that Saturday yes I do uh you had uh been at one of your daughter's hockey games that day if if it's the Saturday before I was saying yes yes I was uh and you wound up going to the hillside in Canton correct that is correct you went with your wife uh Jennifer mccab yes when you got there you saw Karen Reed and John O'Keefe there together correct I was there previous to them but yes I I saw them there yes eventually I saw them there I I should have phrased the question that ultimately you ran into John and Karen together correct yes I did uh and and when you uh came in contact with them you and your wife and Brian Albert and his wife Nicole who's your sister-in-law uh hung out with Karen Reed and John o'keith correct uh yes there was a big group of people hanging out together correct there were other people in addition to the ones that I've just named yes there were uh so you were with uh John and Karen for maybe around an hour or so that night of January 22nd I'd say I don't know exactly what time they um arrived but yes I'd say they were there for at least an hour and during that hour span of time uh they uh appeared to be uh enjoying each other's company yes and uh the two of them had arrived together correct they walked in together yes and there were no uh problems that night that you could see between John and K correct that yes I do not see any problems okay now moving on to the waterfall on January 29th I am not going to go through with you who arrived when and who left when and where people sat at which table we're going to skip all that and I'd like to streamline the questioning if I can uh and I just want to talk to you about two or three areas um you would agree that at the waterfall the mood among the people people who were there was uh festive correct yes that's correct everybody appeared to be happy and enjoying themselves correct everybody was enjoying each other's company correct specifically with regard to John O'Keefe and Karen Reed they appeared to be uh quite happy that Kaylee had been accepted into Bishop Fen correct um John I I recall talking to John about it and he was happy that Kaye was at Bishop fan I do not recall speaking of Karen about Bishop fan but definitely John was happy about Kaylee being in Bishop Yen all right uh you have previously testified that they were both excited about that have you not if I did I did I just know that John mentioned that he was out because he was excited about Kaylee being at Bishop fi if I looped them both in then they both were happy I I don't remember what I said when I said it I didn't put it this way I didn't see her she wasn't happy about it makes sense yeah well I'm just going by by your words sir um as far as you could see they were both excited about her acceptance correct yes yes um and they had just found out the previous day or so correct I don't recall what day they found out but I know that John mentioned he had went out for some beers he was excited um because Kaylee got into Bishop fan and he mentioned he was out with another one of his friends whose daughter also got into Bishop right and it appeared to be new news correct oh yes it was news they were waiting on yes right you you hadn't heard it before this the first that you heard it correct um I don't know if I heard it if somebody of a kid had already leaked it the the day before or that day but first I heard it from John all right uh but it was clear to you that it was really important to John O'Keefe that Kaylee get into Bishop fan and go there correct um he was they applied he was excited for her to go there and it it was clear that he believed it was an an achievement for her correct um yes and and you could glean also that John o'keef felt like it was an achievement for him as well correct jackon your honor could you glean that from him he was he was happy that she got in I couldn't I don't know what he was if he felt it was his achievement he was happy for kayy of course and he was doing right by his sister's daughter correct I don't know what that means I can go to any school and do right all right in any case everything seemed good that night everything was good uh there were no arguments there were no arguments that I saw John was drinking beer in my recollection yes and you had previously testified that you saw uh Karen was drinking some type of clear liquid that you assumed was some type of VOD correct that is correct um and but you didn't think that they were drinking much correct at the waterfall no they were only there for an hour so right and uh they got there around 11 correct give or take yep Elish and that bar is pretty strict about last call correct that is correct and you spoke with both of them during the course of the night correct yes neither John nor Karen was intoxicated in your view correct jaction can you answer that they would drink I don't know what in what I don't know what the guideline of intoxication is but they were drinking you were call testifying before the grand jury regarding this matter on April 26th of 2022 if you have that then I must I don't recall my questions that question specific but yes right well I didn't ask you about the questions I just asked if you recall testifying before the grand jury on that date I don't remember the date I recall testifying before the grand jury if I suggested to you that it was April 26 of 2022 would you quarrel with that that was did you say would I quarrel yeah no it was definitely around that time okay uh and at that grand jury presentation uh Mr L was there correct yes none of the defense team was there correct no Karen Reed was not there correct no and there was no judge there correct no and uh April 26th was approximately 3 months after January 29th of 2022 uh yes is it fair to say that your memory about whether or not John Andor Karen was intoxicated would have been better on April 26th of 2022 than it would be today may we approach all right I'll see you Jo feel free to stand up for e e yes um I had just asked you if your memory of your observations of Karen Reed and John O'Keefe from January 29th would have been better on April 26th of 2022 than it would be today yes I think that's F say and that's because your your your memory doesn't get better over time correct I don't know I I I would say it's fair to say yes my memory would be better that day and on that day you were asked by Mr L quote did either of them strike that I'm going to go back to the previous sentence just to put it in context yes the previous sentence was from Mr L obviously you've had social occasions with M and M M Reed before correct and your answer was oh yes right objection y I'm going to let that one go my answer is yes I had previous I don't know if I said oh yes but my answer was yes of course I had previous relationships with them I'm sorry I cut you off sir I don't I'm saying of course I had previous relationships with them right uh and the uh question that I wanted to direct you to just to put it in context was did either of them speaking about John and Karen on this particular evening seem sort of overly intoxicated to you you recall that question I don't recall the specific question but that's the question and your answer was no to that um yes if that's my answer then it was no all right uh in in terms of whether you can confirm that that was the question and answer if I showed you the transcript would that refresh your memory yes of course it would this is uh 2103 lines 13 to 15 for Council and I didn't ask permission you I'm sorry either them anym thank you having reviewed that transcript did I get the question and answer correct yes she did okay um just a couple more things about the waterfall I wanted to ask you about uh Brian Albert and Brian Higgins sir yes uh they were both there that night while you were there correct yes they both were there and they are both pretty big guys correct objection can you answer that yes they're good siiz guys all did you see Brian Albert and Brian Higgins practicing fighting at the waterfall practicing fighting right did you see them kind of square up in a fighting stance to each other I recall them grabbing each other I don't recall them squaring up like they were fighting each other no they were playing a little grab ass with each other I did I did see them grab each other I don't recall a physical hey let's go duke it out I do not recall that okay so are you saying taking you literally that they grabbed each other's asses is that it no I'm saying grab ass it's a figure speech okay but but what they didn't uh they didn't grab each other they were in a fighting stance weren't they didn't they Crouch down low with each other I I'm telling you I don't recall seeing them crouching in a fighting stance I recall them I recall someone grabbing somebody I don't remember who grabbed who I just recall like a bear hug or something I thought I recall them doing a bear hug all right so so you recall them uh one of them getting behind the other another one and kind of restraining them or grabbing them I think there was a bear hug yeah that's that's what in my memory I don't and you would agree with me that uh after closing time Brian Albert and Brian Higgins were two of the people who went back to 34 Fairview Road the Albert home correct yes that's correct but before everyone left before you left it was announced around the table that everyone was welcome back at Brian Albert and Nicole Albert's house correct yes Karen Reed and John O'Keefe were both there when that invitation was announced correct yes and you would agree that it was expected that Karen Reed and John o'keef would go to the Albert home that night correct if they wanted to come they were welcomed yes and that plan would have been for them to go inside the Albert home correct yes you recall what time you left the waterfall um I left the waterfall after midnight give or take 1210 12:1 15ish I don't know the exact specific time well a little before 12:15 but um definitely 12 10ish 121 15ish in there and you were one of the last to leave the waterfall yes as I mentioned I um Nick Kus and I walked out together from the waterfall your wife Jennifer mccab had walked out of the bar physically before you did correct yes that's correct and you actually met her in the parking lot um she was already in the vehicle in the parking lot correct and then you got into the car to drive to the Albert's home correct yes that's correct all right so I'm I'm going to ask you about the ride back to the alberone in a bit but right now I want to skip to when you got there okay okay uh when you first got there your wife parked your vehicle in the driveway correct yes which side of the driveway did you park your vehicle in um as I mentioned yesterday I don't recall if it was immediately on the left meaning the left towards the lawn or if she was in the in the next spot over she pulled in I don't remember exactly what if it was here or one spot over but she pulled in the driveway at that time I at least two I don't call if there was more than two um so if there was at least two that those two would have been parked uh abing the the garage area in other words would they be B let me rephrase so there are two lanes in that driveway correct I my recollection there's two lanes but there is more space if you I know when we go over and we've gone over there's more space to kind of Park three cars um to the right correct okay but we we weren't to the right we were either left or middle you were behind one vehicle which whichever Lane you were in or were you pulled right up to one of the garage entrances I I don't recall if we pulled all the way in or or not but I I don't remember so there were at least two vehicles in the driveway before you got there correct in the driveway yes uh yes it were cause in the driveway and when you parked in the driveway way fair to say that there was no black SUV at the Albert's home are you referencing Karen's SUV I don't know what color the cars the Albert's cars were okay um are you referencing their SUV put it this way yes I'm referencing Karen's SUV that was not at the home and that was not in the driveway correct Karen's SUV was not in the driveway and it was not ajacent to the property or any on the street anywhere that you could see correct it was not there all right but but you said say that there was a Jeep in the street at that time correct there was a Jeep parked in front of the end of the driveway in front of the mailbox and that jeep belonged to Brian Higgins I found out it belonged to Brian Higgins I didn't know it was his Jeep when I arrived and it had a plow on the front of it uh yes it did it was parked adjacent to the Albert's property on Fair viiew facing toward up the hill toward Chapman Street correct yes and at the time that you arrived that was the only vehicle that was parked on Fair viiew Street adjacent to the Albert property correct yes and your testimony is that that jeep remained parked in front of the Albert house uh just to the left of the driveway as you face the house until Brian hangs finally left and drove it away at the end of the night correct that's my recollection was his Jeep was out in front of the mailbox um with the Court's permission could we display exibit 66 okay um so Mr M I'm highlighting for the like the front of the Albert's home when I get to the point where the jeep was parked can we stop me and you can adjust it right or left if I go too far objection your honor can we have him use the the print the laser point to first and then sure I was hoping I didn't have I don't have one that's oh you could yeah please the jeep was right there from the edge of the driveway right there I believe it was a twodo Jeep okay it looks like part of the Jeep would have been blocking the driveway no where the mailbox is the jeep was right there it was not blocking the driveway the uh sure okay uh the mailbox that's uh spotlighted there would that have been where the back of the jeep was yeah the back would have been right in the vicinity of the of uh the edge of the driveway in the mailbox I see so it wasn't blocking the driveway at all when you saw it no uh and it was facing to the left as we look at exhibit 66 correct facing oh heading to the left of the house correct we can have lights and as you testified that that jeep was there the whole night Brian Higgins didn't go out to move it at any point correct I never saw Brian Higgins go outside to move his Jeep about five minutes after you got to the Albert home that night you saw a black SUV parked outside the home correct Yes again I don't know the exact minutes but give or take um or five minutes and when you saw that black SUV parked outside the Albert home Higgins jeep was still there correct yes to my recollection the jeep was still outside in front of the mailbox the black SUV was parked in front of Higgin Jeep with the plow on the front correct that's correct how far or close to that jeep was the black SUV I don't recall the exact distance again when I looked outside I noticed the my focus was on the black SUV which looked outside would have been in front of the front door um with regard to the distance between the Jeep and the black SUV was it Greater or smaller than the distance between you and me right now oh it would be smaller um if on the end if you're the if you're the end of the Jeep and on the end of the let's say that the rear end of the the black SUV and you are the front end of the Jeep yeah I'd say' be you'd be a little closer to me um with the Court's permission may I walk closer to the witness so that he could give an estimate sure and you can just stop me sir yeah I don't I don't know again when I looked outside I was focused on the SUV I wasn't focused on the Jeep or the truck I don't know the exact distance you could walk three more feet or three feet that way but it was out in front of the house that's all I can tell you you will agree with me that you've given conflicting information about where the black SUV was when you first saw it you if you tell me I gave conflicting information you can show it to me I don't recall I I I've always said the SUV was in front of the house right and when you said in front of the house you meant that as you look out the front door the Albert residence which on exhibit 66 would have been the door to the left that's the the Classic front door the Classic front door looking at the house on the main part of the colonial looking straight out from there that's where the black SUV was positioned correct in that vicinity correct right it would have been sort of directly in front of you as you look out that front door correct like I said in the vicinity of looking out the front door was the black SUV if it was 3 ft this way or 3et this way or 3 ft that way I don't know it was just out in front of the house right uh and that was where it was when you first spotted it according to your testimony today correct yes but you spoke to Michael Proctor during the afternoon of January 29th did you not yes I did that was the very day that these events occurred correct yes it was you would agree with me that your memory of where that blackv was when you first spotted it on January 29th would have been better on that very day than it would be today correct possibly yes it's almost 2 and a half years later two and a half years that I've lived in my memory yes but your memory does not get better over time correct jaction on January 29th of 2022 when you spoke to Michael Proctor you told him that you saw a black SUV parked to the right of the residents as you look at the property from the street did you not I did not when you can you elaborate what you mean by to the right of the re residence well I will just repeat the question did you tell Michael Proctor on January 29th of 2022 that you observed a big dark SUV parked to the right of the house what right looking at the house to the right or looking at the house to the left when you say right I don't know what you mean by right is your memory exhausted as to what you told Michael Proctor no not at all um so if your memory is not exhausted would you agree with me that while you were at 34 Fairview you told Michael Proctor that you observed a big dark SUV parked to the right of the house that could have been the second time I informed him of seeing the SUV okay um if I suggested to you that that was the first time according to what you told Michael Proctor would you dispute that Jackson sustain is your memory exhausted as to whether or not that was the first or second time according to what you told Michael Proctor my memory is not exhausted okay so if your memory is not exhausted do you deny telling Michael Proctor that you observed a big dark SUV parked to the right of the house jaction can you answer that I I don't know if I can answer it it I believe it's the second question I told him I saw an SUV and parked in front of the house then I saw an SUV move further up the road which looking out of the house would be to the right of the house so that would be when I saw the SUV to the right of the house would be the second time I saw the SUV I've always stated the SUV was in front of the house if looking out the front door okay so when you talk to so you deny telling Michael Proctor that when you first saw the SUV by the way sir is this is this funny I'm sorry this is not funny sir not at all it's been two years of misery you're smiling now that's why I asked you keep repeating the same question well I'm trying to get an answer that you won't give me sir when you talk to Michael Pro on January 29th of 2022 when you first observed the big dark SUV you said to him it was parked to the right of the house jaction this is the last time on that question is that right that is not right the SUV the first time was in front of the house in front of coming out the front door the second time was it was to the right of the house all right you have to move on gotcha okay all right so uh you did not say that to and but you did say that you were making those observations from the front door correct as I stated yesterday I recall that's a yes or no question I'm sorry Jackson your H can you answer it yes or no I I can't I said yesterday it's either I was out looked out the window and I looked out the front door I don't remember which order um well you told Michael Proctor that the first time you looked out it was out the front door did you not I don't recall what I told Michael Proctor on April you don't recall may I approach your H yes page two of Proctor's report counil so next time just show it to of course I'm sorry You' read the first few sentences of that second paragraph second paragraph there P yes you had said that you don't remember what you told Michael Proctor did that report refresh your memory I'm not saying I don't remember what I told Michael croor I'm stating what I remember hold on a second sir you just told this jury that you don't remember what you told Michael Proctor those were your words yes at the point I'm reading I don't remember the exact wording but I know what I told Michael Proctor all right and you told Michael Proctor that you observed a big dark SUV parked to the right of the house did you not at some point in the conversation yes I told Michael Proctor that a big doc SUV moved to the right of the house moved to the right of the house is that what you just said all right let me rephrase at some point there was a big dark SUV on parked in front of the right of the house I physically didn't see it move so I need to refr I can't say move right but what I'm concentrating on now sir is not what your memory is today or what you testified to the jury today I'm concentrating on what you told Michael Proctor that very day on January 29th of 2022 okay and you initially told him that it was parked to the right of the house the big dark SUV and that you made those observations from the front door and then you stated you looked out the front window in and observed the same big dark SUV had moved to the other side of the property so correct the objection sustained you have to break that down and I thought we moved on from this m no we haven't gotten to the second part of the so bring the document I'll see you at side e e e e e oh thank you very much one last question on this Mr yes with regard to Trooper Proctor's report that you have in front of you right it's I I for identification uh yes I'm reading the will agree with me that you reported your conversation as saying that the vehicle was first to the right and then moved to the other side of the property correct Jackson sustained uh you testified before the grand jury regarding this issue on April 26th of 2022 did you not yes I did uh and you talked about the vehicle moving from point A to point B correct uh yes at some point and you estimated that it was 15 to 20 F feet or so that the SUV moved along the property line correct uh yes again I don't know the exact distance but estimates and uh you at at that point in time you were asked to clarify what you would meant when you said that the vehicle was on first on the right side of the property do you recall that testimony I do not do you recall that Mr L asked you uh you know to the right would have been toward the dve way side of the property and that you answered that's correct I don't remember the conversation um and again to the right looking at the house or to the right looking out of the house well that's what I'm talking about to to the right looking at the house would be toward the driveway corre the to the right looking at the house would be toward the driveway correct and that's your testimony where the vehic started out correct and then moved toward the flag pole the second time the vehicle started in front of the house and moved towards the flag pole correct so looking out of the house it moved towards the right now excuse me you told Michael Proctor that initially it was parked closer to the driveway or the mailbox when you first saw it correct objection the objection sustained we were moving off of this Mr okay yes uh wherever it was when you first saw it where was the Jeep in relation to that black SUV when you first laid eyes on the black SUV again I was focused on the black SUV V my recollection the jeep was still in the same spot um which you we had pointed out earlier on the exhibit correct in in terms of where it was facing the black SUV was behind I'm sorry the jeep was behind the black Jeep would have been behind the black SUV correct and uh wherever it was along that property line you would agree with me that before the black SUV arrived outside the Albert home you didn't notice any tire tracks in the snow on the street in front of the house correct before yes that's correct or the black SUV around correct and at all times that you saw the black SUV first or second it was always facing toward Chapman Street correct yes that's correct and it was always facing in the same direction that you say that Higgin jeep was facing correct yes and that would mean that the passenger side of the black SUV was the closest side to the Albert home correct yes and it was the closest side to you when you were first looking at it correct yes and now your testimony today is you don't recall if the first time you looked at that black SUV it was through the front door or if it was through a front window correct uh correct I don't recall which one I looked out first I know I looked out both of them at some point I just don't recall which one was first whichever one it was when you first laid eyes on that black SUV you did see John O'Keefe in the passenger seat correct that is correct how long a span of time was it between the first time you looked out and saw the black SUV and the second time again I don't have the exact time I'm going to guess three four five minutes at most and what you did in between those three four five minutes was you went back to the table or near the table in the kitchen dining room area where everybody was congregated that's correct and you went back there to to talk to people and socialize correct yes that's correct and then you came back to the front of the house and either went to the front window or the front door and that's when you noticed that the black SUV had moved to the other side of the property correct uh yes at that moment it had moved to the right of the property it driven forward correct I did not see a drive but it moved yes it had moved so it had to get there somehow yes all right uh it was now closer to the flag pole than it was the first time correct that is correct and the flag pole as you look at the property not from your Vantage Point looking out but as you look at the property from the street that would have been to the left correct yes uh and again it was still facing toward Chapman Street yes um in terms of how many times you saw the black SUV having moved outside the house you would agree with me that you have contradicted yourself about how many times that it moved correct no yesterday and today you testified that it had been in three different spots and then it was gone correct yes three three times I looked out and saw the SUV right and you know again on uh in May of 2024 yesterday and today all three times it moved it was moving further or farther up fair viiew toward Chapman Street correct yes um and in fact the you've testified now in May of 2024 that the third time that you saw it the black SUV was uh even pass the fire hydrant uh just about to the neighbor's property correct uh yes uh but again your memory of where it was the last time that you saw it or how many times you saw it I should say would have been better on January 29th than today correct um again assumption yes I guess it should be uh and in fact when you were talking to Michael Cy you had just observed the black SUV just hours before speaking to him correct yes not two and a half years before right right oh yes uh and in when you spoke to Michael Proctor you told him that you only saw the black SUV in two different spots correct that's what it says on this paper my recollection is always been I've saw the black SUV and different spots and you just called it a paper it's a it's a police report correct jaction that's his St Mr yti now since you talked to Michael Proctor on January 29th of 2022 um it's fair to say that you've had multiple conversations about this case with your family correct of course I've talked about this case that includes in-person conversations correct with my family yes yes uh as well as phone calls and texts yes um you've also since you talked to Michael Proctor have had multiple conversations about this case with your in-laws correct yes that also includes in-person conversations as well as phone calls and texts correct that is correct and since you to gave that statement to Michael proy you've had multiple uh conversations specifically with Brian Albert correct yes I've talked to Brian Albert that includes inperson phone calls and text correct that is correct would you agree with me that in terms of the changes in your version of events from what you've testified during this trial to what is in Michael Proctor's report you put the SUV father down Fairview toward Chapman Street now correct jaction your testimony during this trial puts the SUV pass the fire hydrant almost toward the neighbor's house correct that is correct but however many times you saw that black SUV you'd agree with me you never observed any damage to the rear of that vehicle correct correct never saw any damage to the rear right tail light correct correct you'll also agree with me that every time you saw that black SUV the vehicle had its headlights on correct I was looking as it as we talked about it moving up the property I was looking at the back I could see the back of the SUV the assumption is the headlights were on um but I wasn't looking at the headlights all right well that would have meant that the uh area in front of the vehicle was lit up correct yes but like I said it was further up the road now sometime after that black SUV first arrived you noticed that there were tie tracks Tire TR tracks I should say in a vshape on the street in front of the Albert home correct that's correct and those tire tracks were from the curb in front of 34 Fairview toward the neighbor's property across the street and then back toward the curb correct um yes it came out waved out towards the to the cross the street and came back in all and the pattern of those tire tracks that you observed were consistent with the vehicle making a three-point turn correct objection can you you answer that I don't know if the vehicle made a three-point turn it could be consistent with because it was a wavy pattern I don't I've never looked at a tire tracks after I've done a three-point turn to determine what they actually look like but in and back out there was nothing about those tire tracks that ruled out a three-point turn to you correct no all right uh you didn't see those tire tracks again until the black SUV arrived at the home correct I didn't you mean yes I didn't see them previous to the black SUV and Higgins jeep was already there before the black SUV arrived correct yes so Higgins D was already parked in stationary when there were no tire tracks in that area correct I didn't notice what I parked my car we parked in the driveway and I walked in the house so I wasn't looking at the tire tracks so but hiin jeep was already parked right right you didn't see tire tracks at that point is my point yeah well I didn't see any uh and at the point that you saw those tire tracks there were no other vehicles in the area along the Albert family property line on Fair viiew other than Higgins DP and the black SUV correct uh that's my recollection yes okay so now uh we're going to go back to where I had left off with regard to meeting uh your wife Jennifer M in the car after leaving the waterfall um you recall that we sort of left off with you getting in the car and starting to drive home yes uh once you uh got inside the car your wife ultimately called John O'Keefe along the ride home correct uh John O'Keefe had texted my wife and my wife had called him he was asking where to we think he was asking for the the where to where the address uh so she called him to tell him and and you knew that he was asking that because the Bluetooth of the car was connected to her phone correct I believe the BL Bluetooth was on again I could hear his conversation my assumption is the Bluetooth was on right you could hear both sides of the conversation correct I could hear John as well yes yeah your wife and John correct yes I was sitting next to my wife I could hear her and you heard John tell your wife that he was planning to go to 34th Fairview correct yes uh he had told your wife uh in your presence that he and Karen would meet your wife and you there correct he said we're on our way right and you knew again the the plan was to go inside 34 Fairview correct yes that was the plan uh you heard your wife tell John that 34 Fair viws off Chapman Street correct um either either I was also talking so I don't know if my wife was repeating but yes we we did say off of Chapman Street it could have been you could have been your wife but he was told it was off Chapman Street right that's correct yes uh and then the your wife hung up with John at least temporarily but then John called back correct yes that's correct he indicated he needed more specific directions to 34 Fairview correct yes and then you heard your wife or maybe you participated in the conversation I won't rule that out but between the two of you you did give them more specific directions correct yes we did and either you or your wife and you can correct me if you know if it's one or the other uh but one of you uh told him to go down Chapman and take Fair View as if they were going to Bella's house correct uh yes we had mentioned um go down uh Chapman to fa viw J you know where Bella lives drive past Bella's Street the house will come up when you left right and I believe you previously explained that Bella was a friend of John's niece Kaye and also your daughter Olivia correct yes that's correct that was a good way to orient him as to where to go correct yes and once you did that John will keep never called back for any clarification correct yes not to my recollection all right and with regard to your state of Mind based on that conversation and the instructions that either you or your wife or both of you gave John you certainly assume that John and Karen would be arriving uh at Fairview coming from the Chapman Street Direction correct that was my assumption as I stated yesterday there's multiple ways to go but that was my assumption and it was an educated assumption based on the conversation that you had correct yes um May I approach the witness owner okay show I the thank you document um I have handed you something if you could take a look and tell the jury whether you recognize what that depicts uh yes this is a map um showing CED AC Crest Road into intersecting with Fair View Road on the opposite side shows Chapman Street intersecting with Fair viw as well as other streets in the it's called The Seed of Crest neighborhood in the seed of Crest neighborhood and realizing that you don't have a compass or do it appear to be uh generally too scale in terms of where the roads are yes and it appears to be a fair and accurate depiction of the layouts of particularly cedarest fair viiew and Chapman Street uh yes okay I would offer that Y is there any [Music] objection and Mr why don't we hand over the other one [Music] may I play that to the jury oh thank you what is displayed on the screen Mr M does that appear to be what I just showed you in uh yes um you see that there's a red bubble there uh does that have any meaning to as you look at the map uh yes it' be the location of 34 uh Fair viw okay and as we look at the map cedarest is up the top and Chapman is down the bottom that is correct with regard to the directions that you gave or you or your wife gave joh o'keef uh if they were coming as you directed them on Chapman Street would they be taking a right onto fairw or a left if the went the way that we mentioned they'd be taking a left okay so in terms of looking at this map they'd be traveling on Chapman Street really from the left to the right as you look at exhibit 88 correct uh yes left to right correct all right and that would allow them to take a left down Fair View heading toward Cedar Prest correct that is correct and you would agree with me that that would put the driver's side closest to the Albert property if they just kept going straight all the way to cedarest correct yes uh the driver's side would have been closest to the property we can turn the lights back on um that would mean well strike out so you agree with me that your state of mind was that was the direction that they would go that's what I thought they would have how they that's how I thought they would have come into the neighborhood correct uh but you never saw the black SUV traveling in that direction or parked in that direction correct that's correct um that would mean that in order for the SUV to be facing in the other direction One Way would be for it to make a three-point turn correct Jack C I'll allow it if they so it was saying if they came down from Chapman and then spun around and facing back up towards Chapman is what you're asking yes at some point she would have had to turn around or do a three-point turn correct um she could do a three-point turn or she could just loop around at cedarest and come back up either one right uh and a three-point turn would be consistent with what the V uh v-shaped tire tracks that you saw when you looked out the of Brian Albert correct Jackson suain when you were interviewed by Michael Proctor on January 29th of 2022 you had not spoken with Ryan NE correct no so it's fair to say you did not know what if anything Ryan Nagel had seen in terms of how or what direction the black SUV arrived in correct Jackson Su when you spoke to Michael Proctor on January 29th 2022 the phone conversation that your wife had with uh John o'keef that you were either participating in or listening to that was regarding the directions that was fresh in your mind on January 29th correct yeah those directions had just been given to John uh you know the night before or really hours before correct yes so on January 29th when you're talking to Michael Proctor believing that John had driven down Chapman Street um you were trying to square in your own mind how the vehicle wound up in the other direction when you looked out the house correct jaction were you can you just repeat that again I think I heard you I just want to make sure it wasn't a great question I'm I'll see if I can make it any better um you're you're talking with Michael proor on January 29th in the afternoon correct yes uh and he's asking you about the positioning of the black SUV among other things correct yes uh and uh again I'm just getting to your state of mind um your state of mind was uh that you know you gave the direction you or your wife gave the direction to John and you're thinking he came down Chapman but you never see saw the vehicle in that direction it was only in the other direction facing toward chap is that fair yes uh and so you're naturally trying to square in your own mind trying to make it make sense as to how that happened correct jackon you can answer that were you trying to square that in your own mind I I wasn't trying to I I don't know if I was trying to square it I do I just knew that for some reason her vehicle was facing up Chapman are you asking I don't know what she did I just know her vehicle was facing up Chapman and and to you that was the significance of the v-shaped tire tracks when you're talking to Pro right Jackson was it it I I if I recall I said there was a v-shaped tire tracks and I believe the question was could it be consistent with a three-point turn I said it could be I didn't know if it was a three-point turn it could be because there was weird tracks I again I did not see the vehicle I don't know if she pulled in the driveway and turned I don't know if she went to C the crest and turned I don't know if she did a three-point turn and turn I have no idea all right but just one last question on this three-point turn you offered the v-shaped tire tracks as an explanation for what could have happened correct jaction howow that I had I had stated there was a v v-shaped TI tracks I didn't say it was a three-point turn all right well you'd agree with me in any case that if John and entered from cedarest and you saw them where you saw them there'd be no need for a three-point Jo correct so you're saying if she didn't come through come from Chapman she came from the other side cedarest there would be no need for a three-point turn because or any type of ter because she was already facing that way that's right if she came from cedarest she's already in the very direction that you saw the black SUV when you looked out correct yes that's correct now uh your testimony during this trial is that you were looking straight out from the house to the street and you know again I I understand your qualification it could have been 3T this way or 3T that way but your memory is that the car was essentially right in front of you give or take the first time you saw it my memory is the car was right in front of the front door yes okay um and you were looking straight at it correct as I had stated earlier the first time I looked out I don't recall if I was looking straight out from the front door or if I was peeking up through the window but it was my site would had it lined up in front of the front door so if I looked out from the front door then it would have been yes straight in front of me um and you would agree with me that when you were looking at the vehicle from wherever you were looking at it you were looking straight over the front lawn correct I was looking over I would have been looking over the lawn correct again I was focused on hold on Mr I was focused on the vehicle I was Focus I I I didn't know that he was not done with his answer my fault we only can have one person speaking at a time the court reporter can't be expected to have two different people at the same time so please be cautious the lawyer needs to be cautious I I will try you ronner um did you get your full answer out sir I did okay um you would agree with me that the v-shaped triot tracks were farther away from you than the front lawn yes they were on the on the road and if you were able to clearly see those v-shaped TI tracks you certainly were able to clearly see the Albert's front lawn correct as I mentioned I was looking over the lawn but I'm assuming the lawn was somehow in my visibility I wasn't focusing on the lawn okay I'm going to try that question again and see if I can get a yes or no answer if you were able to clearly see the V shap CH tracks you were certainly able to clearly see the Albert's front lawn correct if I looked at it it's a confusing question as I said I was focused on the road I wasn't looking at the lawn let me let me be clear I'm not asking you if you looked at it I asked if you were able to clearly see it I would be able to yes and when you looked out at that black SUV you and and saw the v-shaped tire tracks you did not see a 6'2 man lying on the front lawn correct no I did not and at no point in time whenever you looked at that black SUV did you see John o'keef inside the vehicle correct no I did not see John in the vehicle at no point in time did you hear any yelling outside 34 Fairview correct no I did not at no point in time did you hear any scream of pain outside 34 Fairview correct no I didn't at no point in time did you ever hear any crash noises outside 34 Fairview Jacks I'll allow it no and uh last question on this point at no point did you hear any noises at all outside 34 fairw that attracted your attention uh no there's music playing in the house so I didn't hear anything okay now after being at the Albert home for a period of time early that morning you left the home approximately 1:40 a.m. or so yeah give or take 1440 145 I don't know the exact time and you walked out with your wife Jennifer mccab and two of Brian Jr's friends correct uh yes uh Brian's two friends were joining Jennifer and I we were driving them home and whether you knew their names or not that night you subsequently learned their names to be Sarah levenson and Julie Nagel that's correct uh and you all came out of the house together correct uh yeah I I don't recall who was who was weird when we walked to the car but we all left the house at the same time and directly in front of all of you was the front lawn correct if I was to walk straight out the front door yes the front lawn's in front of me and when you were walking out the black SUV was gone correct yes that's correct and when you first came out of the house facing facing that front lawn you didn't see a black baseball cap correct that's correct or a black sneaker correct that's correct or 45 pieces of red plastic tail light correct that's correct or even one correct that's correct and once again you didn't see a 6'2 man lying on the front lawn correct no I wish I did but I didn't as you were walking out with your wife and these two other women none of them yelled that they saw anything like that correct correct and then you all piled into the vehicle which was in the driveway correct yes all you and your wife got into the front the driver's seat and the passenger seat correct yes I sat in the driver's seat my wife was in the passenger seat I brushed off had a brush off the car but that's where we sat and the the other two women who were friends with Brian Jr got into the second row passenger seat correct yes and I believe your testimony is you don't know who was where within that but they did get in there yes they were behind us I don't know who sat in what seat um once you got inside the vehicle is that when you realized that you had left something back into the house I don't recall leaving something in the house I'm sorry I don't recall leaving something in the house I don't if I if I did I did I don't recall leaving something in the house you don't recall going back into the house no I don't recall going back into the house um if you went back into the house the front lawn uh would have been directly in front of you uh from the driveway correct uh the lawn would have been to my left and I would have went up the walkway to the house okay well that's my next question when you went up the walkway the front lawn would have been to your left right ah yes that's correct and then coming out you would have had the same view that you'd had the first time correct ah yes it would have come back up the same way down the steps to the left and without going through all the various items that I asked you about in terms of not seeing on the front lawn you know the sneer the cap the tail light Etc you didn't see any of that stuff uh at any point the second time correct correct I did not see anything okay so now you're finally back in your vehicle and you are backing out of the driveway correct yes uh is it fair to say that to get to your well strike that is it fair to say that to drop the women off you're playing was to head toward Chapman stre yes that that's what we did which would mean that as you back out of the driveway the rear end of your car would have been facing toward cedarest correct uh and then you would straighten out and now you've got a straight shot up chap up toward Chapman Street correct yes and it would also mean that you drove the length of the Albert's property correct yes while you did that sir Julie Nagel never said what was was that did she I did not hear Julie say that she never said she had seen a black object correct I did not hear her say that she never said that she saw a black blob correct I did not hear her say that and she didn't say that a the black blob that she supposedly saw was five or six feet in length correct again I did not hear her say it and she never said that she might have seen a person correct I did not hear you talking about in the car correct yeah I did not hear a say it in the and you were right there driving correct I was driving obviously focused on the road um the windshield wipers it was snowing pretty heavily you didn't have earplugs in um I didn't but they were all talking in the car you didn't have air pods in no I didn't certainly not the noise cancellation airpods correct correct I did not have airpods in um and you never stopped the car because you never heard Julie Nagel say anything about anybody being in trouble correct I did hear her say it okay um you woke up the uh next morning as you said to screaming correct uh yes the screaming was so loud that you thought that the person screaming was actually in your bedroom correct that is correct that was and it startled you fair to say yes it did um and then ultimately you learn that Karen read ended up in your driveway correct yes um you could hear her screaming outside correct I could hear her outside correct um she was hysterical um she was screaming Jen she just kept repeating Jen in a hysterical manner yeah Jen Jen yes and she was screaming so loud that she was in danger of waking up the whole neighborhood correct uh she was loud correct and other than screaming Jen Jen in that hysterical tone you really couldn't make out her words a lot of the time correct not when she was outside my house no um skipping ahead to when you went back to fair viiew that morning it's fair to say that uh when you went did you say that you went inside Fairview at maybe around 700 a.m. is that a good estimate yeah I don't know the exact time but it would say give or take could be a little before a little after but somewhere in that vicinity and I believe you testified that the only people inside that you saw there were your wife Brian Albert and Nicole Albert in addition to office office at that moment I at that moment that's who I recall seeing there okay so there were uh and you didn't know where Brian Jr was whether he was sleeping but you didn't see him I don't recall seeing him at that moment now okay uh and officer link was the only uh police official that you saw inside correct at that moment correct okay now in the days after January 29th you participated in a group text exchange with three other people do you recall that um can you name the three people sure uh you had a group text chat going with your wife Jennifer mccab your brother-in-law Brian Albert and your sister-in-law Nicole Albert correct oh yes um I'd like to ask you some questions about that group text chat if I might sure um you would agree with me that on February 1st of 2022 that was 3 days after John o' John o'keef passed away correct uh yes and at some point on February 1st of 2022 you were physically either at or near the Albert home at 34 Fairview in Kenton correct I could have been I I don't recall if I was there you recall watching what investigators were doing in the neighborhood on February 1st I do not if you could show it to me I could maybe reflect my memory I do not recall that specific day you don't recall monitoring what troopers were doing in I was not monitoring anything that the troopers were doing if I had driven down the street dropping someone off picking somebody up and saw the Troopers then I saw the Troopers I was not monitoring anything directing your attention to 1:34 p.m. and 27 seconds uh you texted your wife ran Albert and Nicole Albert quote Troopers back out front but in front of Asian house did you not if I texted that you could show it to me May yes 02150 no show it to them don't sorry attach it you show it show it to and and don't reference what it is you think this is my first try thank you thank you um I'm showing you a document sir and if you look up or look at it by your look I don't I don't use glasses but I can't see this so maybe I need glasses um I I'm I'm making it out I got it is a light no he says he doesn't no it's not I just it's just it's just doc but I got it up what the hell was if you're struggling I'm reading mine right the middle one yeah yeah take all your time the time I got it yep I see it okay 5 me just grab that thank you um having reviewed that document is your memory refresh my I see that I texted what you said I texted the troopers were outside of the house yes right that's that that that's my question um this uh is a you know a page that contains uh the group text that you had with Jen mccab Brian Albert and Nicole Albert correct yes and in terms of the question that I asked you you now acknowledge that you testified Troopers back out front but in front of Asian house correct that's correct um Mr McCade what is an Asian house the next to Anis to the Alberts were Asian so you mean that uh a family of Asian origin lived next door uh yes they were the next door neighbors to your brother-in-law and sister-in-law uh correct they lived um if you come out of Fairview they live to the right of the alits and did you know their last name was the chongs I had no idea that I've never met them I don't know their last names I just knew it was an Asian family next door and you didn't feel the name the need to ask their names or try to call them by their names never met them Sor objections sustained you know what Mr yed let's come to Calk please e when you did tell the group chat about the Troopers being at that house um nobody asked you to clarify which house you were talking about correct jaction I'll allow that did anyone ask you to clarify nobody asked me to clarify that I recall in fact Brian Albert responded with just a question right now do you recall that yes I think that was on that was on the the screen you just showed me and you responded Yes correct did you did I get to see all the text or no and with the Court's permission yes I'm going to give you the previous page in case you need just give it to him I'm sorry thank you I'll just give you one and if you need the other just let me know no problem thank you and again just look at it silently to yourself and look up you're done so am I to assume where you said Brian Albert said right right now yeah would you like to see that so would that be the last one and then this is the the next one I'm just making sure I understand I appreciate that um you tell me okay with the Court's permission sure thank you yep that's what I was just looking for I may collect the documents I just I didn't read the rest of it no no take take your time please okay thank you you no um you would agree with me that after you told uh the group in this group text that the troopers were back out front in front of that house Brian Albert's response was right now yes and then you said yes correct yes uh and then Brian Albert replied okay correct Jack as of the reading is that how he replied I that's what it just said yes all right now at that point uh you texted the group that you were trying to get a picture of what you were seeing correct I didn't see that on the text and you don't deny that you said that in the text correct you show me the text please oh sure oh did you say you didn't see it in the I didn't see that no I'm sorry that's probably because I didn't give it to you may I yes have you shown those both to Mr L that's the next p down this um I'm showing you two pages okay again read it to yourself and look up at me when you're done do you have a phone with a flashlight on you I don't have a phone on me you have a flashlight I'll be able to see it do you mind court reporter Mr clerk oh okay thank you very much thanks Jim all right much better I got it now grab that from you thanks having reviewed that uh do you acknowledge that you texted the group that you were trying to get a picture of what you were seeing uh yes I said I was going to try to take a photo all right um You would agree with me that you were watching what was going on correct on February 1st uh no I just happened to be driving through the neighborhood at that moment so you you happen to be driving through and then you texted the group to tell them what you you saw correct yes and then you didn't just keep driving up the road and leave the area did you um I think I did well I don't unless you unless I you tell me I went back I think I did I said I was going to try to take a picture right well that that's my point yeah you you weren't just having seen the Troopers back out there at that house uh in your mind you you still weren't done correct I just I was going to take a picture to show them oh the Troopers are outside your house right so so in answer to my question you weren't you weren't done with that scene correct I think I was cuz I don't know if I took a picture well I think I went through I was I mentioned I was going to try to take a picture I don't know if I took a picture or not you didn't intend to be done at that point correct I didn't intend to be done right because you wanted to take a picture of what was going I was going to take a picture to show them that the uh troopers were outside in front of the house you want to continue to monitor what was going on did you not I was not monitoring what was going on I just happened to drive by at that moment may we be seeing the sidebar okay e e e is there any objection from Council if Mr McKay brings his own phone back in should he need a flashlight again I wanted to do that okay yeah all right thank you all rise for the court please for e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e for e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e for e e e e for back in session please be seated right can we bring Mr MC back in please please thank you yes all right Miss taned thank you um m m appr this a little in a little bit of a different way to hopefully make it easier on you and me and the jury I'd like to hand you uh with the Court's permission the four uh pages that you've already reviewed just to have you identify minut sure thank you and I i' just like you to take a look at them and just confirm that's what you've already seen before we took the break for I yes these are the ones you showed me earlier thank you sir approach yes having reviewed those sir uh does this appear to be uh an accurate transcription of the sequence and the content of the group text chat within that time frame yes I would offer that yourone all right the only concern I have is I don't want to give the jury something they need a flash to read well my next so can I see it of course um why don't I see e for e e e thank you okay Mr B if you would display the first page 21 we uh how is your your distance vision you able to read what's on the screen I don't know why it's on Blue um this is can I have them in front of me while you displaying them yes please thank you very much and feel free to use the flashlight there yes thank you oh yeah that's much better much better now we can all see it with regard to your initial text exchange that we talked about can you what you texted 34 and 27 seconds in the afternoon of February 1st 2022 uh yes you want me oh troop is back out front but in front of agent house looks like more has been dug up there for at least there or at least looks like it and who was it that responded to your noic uh that would be Brian Albert Brian Albert sen yeah yep and his response was right now and that was at 134.5 seconds uh yes it was and you took that to be a question correct yes yeah asking right now yes yes1 and you responded to Brian by saying what to his question about right now I responded Yes and that was at 1:34 p.m. and 56 seconds yes um you would have still been on scene at that time um I'm not sure if I was still on scene but I was obviously if if it was in the area it must have been in the area correct and who responded to you uh Brian Albert again and his response was okay you have a memory as to whether or not Brian Albert was on scene at that time or he was somewhere else I don't have a memory of where Brian was at that time given the fact that you're saying Troopers are up front and he's asking right now I'd I'd assume he's not I'd assume he's somewhere else yeah and your response to him or your response to the group I should say was what I had to pick up a car so I drove through right so this is a little further than we talked so take this one down please I me just have a moment I'm sorry yes the second the second Buble Please Mr Bates on 2152 okay now we're at 135 pm. and 16 seconds Mr M uh yes that's correct and your text to the group of you your wife Brian and Nicole Albert is what trying to get pictures all right and at this point I pass the next bubble be displayed and then I'm going to skip to the bubble after that once you see it the next bubble comes from Brian Albert uh yes Brian Albert the screen speaks for itself if it doesn't then the witness can of course what time is that at 13532 and his response does that appear to be a Tyle okay I'm assuming and that that is from uh Brian Albert all right and time there are you able to make that up do that say 1:35 34 or 13834 whatever it says if you can't see it you can see it next sure and uh his response was okay does that appear to be correct in the PK I'd have to go back and the previous one you next question sure all right we can take that off minut um I'd like to just go over two more areas of these group chats with you um you would agree with me that uh later that same day on February 4th uh the four of you you you your wife Brian Albert and Nicole Albert uh discussed in that group chat uh the fact that Michael Proctor was talking to krie Roberts over the phone correct jaction you're on L uh at 31 and 48 seconds you commented on the interview of Michael Proctor with har Roberts did you not Jackson dis may we be soon e e e e for e I think you can help it thank you so I'd like you to not leave the witness in the dock if there's something that he can have um so I what I'm going to do now sir is to hand you three more pages and ask if you can identify those thank you for for for [Music] all right Mr mccab generally do you recognize those all right so go Mar it up yep okay go ahead Mr the pages that I've handed you handed to to you and that you now have in your possession uh those are from the same group chat that you identified earlier correct yes that's correct and uh it appears to have the same sequence and content of the group chat as well yes I would offer that the over the Commonwealth subjection again I'm not sending anything to the jury that they can't read so let's mark this for identification and the substance of those each individual one will be question by question understood uh so Mr Bates with regard to page 2160 I'm looking for the second bubble do you have an extra copy for me to follow along no sure we or Jim was it Miss T was this in the what was Mark for you're using that all right I we have extra here thank you all right and if it's a question by question objection just may that be displayed May what be displayed just that as an exhib and I did not take it in I said the content on a question by question so it's each bubble uh you you saw that uh at 3:1 p.m. and 48 seconds on February 1st that you text uh texted quote very weird that she's been barely interviewed the whole dead comment was just told I was supposed to have them talk last night and forgot to tell Proctor to call her you recall that I recall it correct all right those were your words correct uh yes they are may that be displayed no it's in we may display it later but I'd like to move this testimony along so that's in evidence and then uh in that discussion uh at 3:03 p.m. and 15 seconds it was Brian Albert who text texted quote hope they don't think she's making it up after the fact for some reason end quote correct jaction I'll allow that uh can you read the time stamp again it's a second page page 0261 oh I found it yeah it's in the middle I got that time stamp correct correct uh 30315 correct and I read that accurately hope they don't think she's making it up after the fact um yes that's correct uh and then less than a minute later at 3:05 and 32 seconds uh you replied yes she was hardly interviewed and I think just answered what was asked oh I'm sorry strike that strike that whole uh question question I skipped uh his next response which was at 305 and 2 seconds where he said but if they barely interviewed her that's on that correct uh that's from yeah from Brian yes that's correct okay now with regard to that exchange uh you would agree with me that you were talking about car Roberts being interviewed by Michael Pro correct I don't want to make an assumption do you have the text previous to this that shows that we're referencing kry I do and I'll show you that only refresh memory yeah I just I don't want to assume something I understand uh I'm going to show you one page and ask you look at it silently to yourself okay and I've open the packet for the page okay you just look up at me when you're done yeah uh again my assumption it's Kerry based can I go back another page feel free okay that was that's what I was looking for yes um did those previous Pages refresh your memory about the context of your group chat conversation uh yes it did uh and certainly it was talking about Carrie Roberts being interviewed correct uh yes it was and you were passing along information about that interview to Brian Albert were you not yes I was letting him know that Carrie was being interviewed and you were telling him things that she was saying correct remember you said the whole dead comment was just told Jackson your sustained all right in any case we're going to move on to the very last uh discussion that I'd like to ask you about um earlier that day February 1st of 2022 at 12:50 p.m. and 37 seconds Brian Albert texted the group which would have again been your his wife Nicole your wife Jennifer and you and that text was Jack okay so I can't which which bubble on which page 02148 right on which page that's the that's the page 02148 okay so I don't have it bubble is the second of the three books so I don't have it I don't have I don't know what the objections pertaining to jurs I apologize that this is taking so long you know what Mr yed why don't you that's for the court and so you're objecting to it so I'm not going to let you say what it is is you can show it to the witness yes which one is this second bubble on 02148 then the third bubble on 02148 and then the first bubble 10249 that's all I'll be asking him about thank you all right so I won't allow based on the objection from the Commonwealth the second bubble on 02148 I will will allow the author of the third bubble um on page 02148 uh it's no the second bubble on 02148 is not allowed into evidence um I need to be heard on that then no all right I'll hear you at cber e e e e e yes please have the jury black please for for and Mr Jackson if you are planning on doing this with the next witness I'd like you to let Mr L know which ones of these you intend to use so that we can avoid all of this and if you have a copy from me that would be helpful for objections court all r back in session please be seated edti thank you honor um Mr MCC when we broke I was just about to ask you about those the last exchange here uh you will agree with me that on February 1st of 2022 at 125149 seconds you texted the group chat to say ask Chris to ask some questions correct yep I'm reading it right now yes that's correct and who is the Chris you were referring to um that would be Chris Albert Brian's brother correct that is correct uh and then you then texted your wife Brian Albert and Nicole Albert quote tell them the guy never went in the house correct yeah that's part of the same text yes Mr M who was the guy that you were referring to does he have a name that would be John John o'keef when you told the group to tell them the guy never went in the house that was you talking about how you should all get your stories straight correct no um you would agree with me that your stories are all straight in terms of the guy never went in the house correct jaction can you answer that John never went in the house it's not a story it's a fact well when you said tell them the guy never went in the house Brian Albert was on that exchange still was he not he was still part of the group text yes Brian is on the exchange and Brian Albert was the one to respond wasn't he let me switch Pages here 15 he responded did he not yes he did and then at that point you knew Brian Albert was the oldest brother brother of the Albert family correct yes that's correct the oldest sibling in that family correct yes that's correct and in his response to your instructions that his younger brother Chris should say that John o'keef never went in the house or the guy never went in the house you would agree with me that he responded with one word correct yes he did and in response to you saying the guy never went in the house Brian Albert's response was exactly correct yes that's his response we're done here all right Commonwealth any redirect just briefly your honor Mr B John o' Keef never went in the house that night is that correct that's correct and from this text communication as far as Chris Albert was concerned was Chris Albert ever at the house on that night no he was not and this is this is something that you uh obviously U death of John o'keef occurring uh how it did where it did and why it did that was something that you discussed can you keep your voice up yes I'm sorry this tragic occurrence as far as what happened to John o' his death where why how that was something that you discussed within your family is that right yes that's correct what I didn't hear that why was it a discussion in your you're talking about the immediate immediately after no one knew what happened John never showed never came in the house so we had no idea what happened to John and John was someone you were a friends with correct yes that's correct now did you ever tell anybody uh what to say at any point in time to the state police to any investigator whatsoever no did anyone in your family or in your presence ever tell anyone that in front of you no now you asked some questions about when you were looking out uh and you saw the SUV correct yes and your focus as you indicated in your testimony was on the SUV correct yes that's correct now during the time that you were looking out uh did you ever see uh a pickup truck outside I knew the pickup truck was out there but again I didn't look at the pickup I kind of saw it but was focusing on the SUV and I saw vehicle out there let's say that my question is more so as far as the the tire marks that you were talking about in the road was that before or after to pick up truck it was after now you were asking questions about uh directionality and and things of that nature as far as coming down Chapman or Cedar CR correct yes that's correct and so if someone had driven by the house missed the house and then went on seed Crest turned around presumably then they would be taking right from CEST on the Fair View is that right uh yes if they passed the house they would have come to CED toest and turned around and come back on the Fair View and you were ask some questions about when that I you saw Mr O'Keefe from your Vantage Point in the SUV is that correct uh yes I was you didn't see him correct I did not see him could you see anyone inside from where you were I could not see anybody in the vehicle do you see anything about the windows as far as their tint or anything like that I don't recall the tint I couldn't see inside though as far as any statements that uh Miss Nagel made on the way home is it your testimony that you U Miss Nagle didn't say those statements or that you didn't hear those statements I did not hear those statements now turning to February 1st um do you recall what you were doing on that day when you drove by Fairview I I don't recall what I was doing I don't I don't recall exactly what I did that day and were you going specifically by Fairview or or where were you based off a reading these text messages I was doing something picking up a car or something it says I don't recall where and I cut down fairw now as far as your statement in those text messages where you said looks like uh more has been dug up you recall that I don't recall it I read it in the text message you recall what that was in regard to as far as what were they diing oh oh oh sorry I do recall they dug out the snow it looked like the snow Banks it looked like there was more snow dug up in the in the in the around the um the Lo around the scene and by the scene you mean around where the FL B fire I that was correct yes did you recall any sort of change in the weather between the 29th and February 1st I believe the the temperature Rose snow was starting to melt if I recall now when you and your wife were uh your wife was talking to uh to Mr o'e and you were giving directions there was some reference to uh Bella's house correct yes that's correct and that was sort of used as a directionality as far as Mr o'keef would be familiar with where Bella's house was yes that's correct what if any relationship uh in the past were you aware of between Mr O and Bella and Bella's mother I'm sorry um at some point uh Bella's parents were were separated uh since divorced um at some point uh Mr O'Keefe had a relationship with Bella's mother and after that conversation in which uh that was reference as far as Bella's house did you ever hear from John o' again never heard from him again nothing further anything very briefly okay um you would just ask if you ever told anyone I'm sorry if you told anyone what to tell the state police or investigators and your answer was no correct yeah I don't I don't recall telling anyone to tell anybody anything so with regard to your statement tell them the guy never went in the house who's the them do you mind if I go back and read take your time I think I know I just want to read it the of them was Channel 4 went into DNE you done with your answer yeah you just asked me who them was and and the answer is you were instructing people on the group chat to tell Channel 4 that the guy never went in the house correct yes this was on February February 1st um as I said none of us in the house had any idea what happened to John O'Keefe so we instructed to we I was saying we don't know what happened he never came in the house all right so that's what was my statement was Sir I didn't ask you for any of that just now did I you just asked me why I said that I asked you who the them was Jack you didn't you look like you asked me to elaborate okay so your answer to my question is the them was you were saying that channel 4 should be told that the guy never went in the house yes or no CH Channel 4 was who I who I was referencing yes no further all right you are all set Mr MCA I will take those documents thank you very much welome yes okay thank you your next witness Please Mr L yes the call to call uh Jennifer mccab to stand Jimmy just watch your stuff you the the court and jury the case down here the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you I do thank you me take this all right whenever you're ready Mr L thank uh good afternoon mam good afternoon could you uh please state your name and spell your last name for sure Jennifer mccab MCC a b e and uh where do you live man Canton and how long have you lived in Canton um approximately 20 well my whole life um I lived in Canton except when I first got married I lived in ston for a year or two and um where you live currently in Kon how long have you lived there um I live at uh 12 Country Lane and I've lived there about 10 years and uh prior to that where did you live in C before countryland um 15 suck Cliff a in Canton and how long did you live on suck Cliff uh approximately 10 years and with regards to both uh addresses who who if anyone you live there with I live there with my husband Matt and my four daughters and how old are your for on um 15 16 18 and 20 now if I could turn your attention to January 28th into January 29th of 20 22 you recall those days I do yes and do you recall what days of the week they were Friday and a Saturday so starting with uh Friday uh January 28th in the evening uh do you recall um what was going on that night or where you went what what were you um well first I set up at my house um for a a team dinner from my daughter's hockey team then I met up with some parents um for my daughter play for the Canton High basketball team so we met up with some parents before um we had a drink appetizers um my younger two were with us we fed them dinner and then we went on to Canton High School to the basketball game now starting back the the oldest daughter with the hockey uh dinner at your house that was your daughter Ally is that correct yes she's your oldest yes now the daughter who at the basketball game is at your second oldest yes um and with regard to uh her who was on varsity team is that right yes for K High School yes and um with respect to just basketball in general when the kids were younger what a any role did you have in regard to that J oh but then you'll move on quickly of course um I was a basketball coach for the wreck or the town program for how many years um I believe with Emily I started approximately when she was in fifth grade and then I was also a coach for my daughter Olivia I think starting when she was in sixth grade and with my youngest I think I coached from first grade on up until eighth grade now far as the high school game was concerned uh is there a sort of a typical start time for high school basketball game yeah move on we we know the time move on after the basketball game where did you go uh my husband and I dropped um my youngest daughter home and then we proceeded to meet my sister at the waterfall and which sister is that my sister Nicole how many sisters do you have three and do you recall about what time it was that you got to the waterall approximately 9:00 and uh when you say we who do you mean my husband Matt and myself and do you recall which vehicle that you were in going around Canton that night I believe it was my car yes and what kind of car was that um Denali uh Yukon I think Denali yeah so bigger type Vehicles yes big SUV now with respect to uh you had a cell phone around that time is that correct yes your cell phone what if any connection did that have between a cell phone and vehicle at that point I don't think mine was connected I'm not sure now when you arrive to the waterall did you go right in or or what if anything did you do I waited a few minutes because my husband was on a phone call and at some point did you and your husband go yes and when you arrived in the waterfall where within the waterfall did you go um we walked in and I believe we sat at the third table and at the time that you arrived who if anyone was there that you were familiar with that that day um Chris and Julie Albert Nicole Albert Caitlyn Albert Tristan Morris and at some point shortly after that or at some point after that who if anyone else came in and joined the group that you were with um Nick kakas did and then his wife did a little bit after and then Brian Albert and Brian Higgins arrived and then Karen and John arrived and prior to uh Karen and John arriving if anyone from the group had left I believe Tristan left um maybe to go asleep cuz he had to plow I think now with reference to Karen and John you're talking about John O'Keefe and Karen correct yes and um how long had you known John um approximately 10 years and how was it that you first came to know John um John's sister and her husband lived in the neighborhood and my daughter became friends with um John's niece um when they were in kindergarten and during that kindergarten year um John's sister and then brother-in-law passed away and John moved in and took care of the kids and just for clarity purposes this would have been when you were living at the the home on suck yes and then after John moved in uh with his niece NE uh what if any role or what if any relationship did you have with either John or his his specific so my daughter was very good friends with his niece um and so you know she would be over all the time and JJ would come over with Patrick and pick her up and he would come in and talk to us and hang out and how would you describe your uh relationship with joh he was my friend um I love John he was an amazing guy now with reference to uh Karen Reed and just for clarity purposes do you see Karen Reed in the court today yes I do did you identify just as to where she seated or ar um she's seated between her attorneys just ask a record reflect identification witness now with respect to the defendant Miss Reeds uh when was that you met her um John had reached out to me saying that he um was dating a new girl and that he she had Ms and I also have MS so he said he would like um for me to meet her and how long have you had M I believe it will be 10 years this October and do you recall specifically went around that was what year what month anything like that that I met Miss Reed yes yes they came over in July of 2020 and came over to your house is that correct yes they came over to the house they brought the kids um swam I have a pool now over the course of um you were familiar obviously that M Reed was dating Mr O correct over the course of time yes sorry over the course of time from July of 2020 when you met her to January of 2022 um how often would you see Miss um it would very you know there were times that we would bump into them or depending on their sports or um you know for my daughter's birthday party when it was time to pick up they'd come over and hang out or Halloween um it just varied we have four kids so we're always kind of in all different directions sometimes it depends on what sport month it is and what team we're with and how would you describe your relationship with with Miss re um I enjoyed Miss Reed I really liked her I thought we connected from the beginning um she was very easy to talk to she had Ms I had Ms and there's not a lot of people our age that I personally know that have it so it was nice to have someone who understood like what I was going through um so we had that in common now with respect um with respect to uh either starting with Mr o' is was your friendship uh the type where you would have uh any sort of discussions about uh his relationship with Miss Reed or or any girls that he dated at any point in time that you were friends with at different points yes and uh what if anything specific do you recall him telling you about his relationship with Miss Reed specifically objection I'm going to allow that I'd like to see council at sideb for just a minute please e thank you so Mr M uh with regard to Mr o'keef um in his relationship with Miss Reed is that something that you spend any real time talking about with Miss Roki no occasionally hey how are things going um how's she feeling how's she doing very general and same sort of question with regard to miss Reed is that a conversation that you had as far as her relationship with with Mr yes similar m now on that evening if I could turn you back to uh to the waterfall um you arrive about 9: about what time was it that you left approximately midnight a little give or take and so during the three hours or so that you were there how would you describe sort of the mood or or demeanor of the group that you were with during the time there fine friendly normal typical night you know just out having a drink listening to music and Men about 11:00 or so it was that Mr o' and Miss Reed came into the bar correct and when they came to the bar where did they go in relation to where you were they came right over and talked to the group that we were with and uh when uh Mr o'keef and the defendant came over what if anything did You observe the defendant do or or have with her when she came oh she had um uh brought a glass with her and kind of took it out of her coat and just kind of chuckled about it what if anything did You observe about the glass I believe it had ridges on it what if anything did You observe as far as what was in the class uh it was clear was there any other kind of like a straw or a lime or anything like that I don't remember as far as you knew at some point did you become aware of where Mr o' and Miss Reed had been prior to coming over to the waterfall yes and where were they uh CF McCarthy's where is that in location to the waterfall just right up the street now over the course of the evening uh you were at a bar um say you were drinking is that right yes you recall specifically what you were drinking I think beer and uh same question with regard to Mr o' you recall him drinking and if so what if anything was I I can't be certain possibly a beer but I can't be certain and with respect to miss Reed same question as far as you call her drinking and if so what if anything you recall her again I remember just a clear glass a glass with clear liquid in it any different glass beyond the one that you've already testified about or I don't remember sorry now when you left uh the waterfall sometime around midnight is that correct yes and um let me ask you this course I'm sorry so with respect to the the time that you were at the waterfall um did you speak with Mr O yes briefly at the bar and do you recall just generally what what it was that she talked about yes his niece had um just gotten into Bishop fan so he was very excited and with respect to miss Reed did you speak to her at the Box yes and do you recall what if anything that you you spoke about yes and what was that um um Karen had shared a little bit of frustration um that morning or one morning she had taken Kaye to Dunkin' donuts and John you know was frustrated didn't you know saying don't take her she's going to you know make a habit of it meaning like she's going to come to expect it every day and then we just talked about how you know challenging it is with kids and um you know she mentioned that that's kind of all they have a fight about and I said yeah well welcome to Parenthood you know and um you know she just was a little bit frustrated um felt like the family needed to be doing more to help and she just wish she had you know more time just her and John but again it was just you know girlfriend tog girlfriend kind of ending now as far as Mr Keef was concerned what if any observations did you make as to how he address uh baseball hat jeans that's what I remember you recall any sort of winter coat or heavier coat or anything like that no now over the course of uh the evening at the waterfall what if any discussion was there amongst the group as far as going somewhere next or or what to do after after the waterfall um Karen had asked Chris if we could go up to um Deanie um she wanted to go up to Deanie and um have him cook some food and uh was that something that was brought up by the defendant once or more than once or something many times and what was sort of the response from the group in regards to going to to DNA and making so Brian Chris and Matt do this annual weight loss um challenge every year and it was in the midst of that so they were like no no no you know we can't go up there we're not going to eat we'll do it another time now following uh that conversation what if any other um let me ask you this why did you go to the waterfall in the first place so I went to meet my sister Nicole um she was the heading there cuz she was going to go um have a drink with her her son was gonna have some friends and then meet out um so I was going to meet them for a drink for my nephew's birthday to clear that nephew was Brian Albert Jr is that right yes did Brian Albert Jr ever show up at the waterfall that even he did not know you know why not um Brian suffers from anxiety and during that time period he was really struggling so he decided to stay home he just decided to stay home yes and so after the discussion about going over to DNE and then uh communication of not going over what if any other discussion was had as to where people were going or what was happening after after leaving the waterfall um Brian Albert senior um just made a general um hey I'm going to go home have a drink with Brian if anyone would like to come and was that something that was just to certain people or was it expressed at the table or how how was that expressed it was expressed to everyone like Hey we're going to go back home have a beer with Brian if anyone would like to come now after that was sort of put out to the table what if any discussion did you have in regard to that with either Mr o'e Miss re or both both of them I said oh you guys should come do you want to come and did they indicate that that was something that they wanted to do or did they indicate that they were coming they both wanted to come and they said they were coming yes now when you left the waterfall if anyone left with you or left at the same time um I believe I walked out with Karen I know I walked out with Karen and I believe um Miss Kus as well prior to to you leaving uh your sister Nicole and your her husband Brian uh had they left prior to you leaving yes and so you're walking out with the defendant and Miss K yes and um when you were walking out with them what if anything was the sort of conversation or the discussion as you were walking well Matt and John were still inside so at one point I said oh Karen why don't you just come with me figuring cuz you know Matt can talk to anyone and God knows how long he was going to stay in there so I was just like hey want do you want to drive with me and they can meet us your husband's a talker is that correct yes um now as far as that you would park there before where where was that Park in relation to waterf um I believe I had to kind of walk straight out in the parking lot in the parking lot yes and um after you had exited from the waterfall at some point Did You observe mrke come out as well yes he did and um did you have any conversation with him in the parking lot while you were out there I believe briefly uh Karen him and I all spoke yes you recall briefly what you spoke about them coming back to fair viiew and after sort of the two of you parted ways did You observe where Mr O and the fend went I just saw them take a like they walked left I walked straight and if one were to walk left in the direction they were walking where would that bring them to Washington Street the main street so you went over then to your car in the parking lot yes and um while you were in your car in the parking lot well let me ask you this first when you walked out of the waterfall um what if anything was different about the weather from when you had walked in um it it started to snow and uh as far as the snow was concerned what was the that initial point when you walk out of the waterfall was it accumulating or anything like that yes I would say you know it was starting to cover the cars so you'd have to put your windshield wipers on to clear it so you didn't have to get the the scraper out or anything like that just C on cliff on the windshield wipers I probably was lazy and just rolled the windows down to get it off the windows and so you're in the car at some uh for some period of time waiting for your husband correct yes and about how long is it that you're waiting for your husband before he comes in actually it wasn't long I I think I turned the car on and then I saw him walking and I pulled up and uh while you're waiting for your husband or shortly after he gets to the car what if what if any communication did you receive at that I received a text from um John saying we are to and with respect uh to that did you respond in kind via text or how did you how did you respond if at all to Mr I was driving so I called him and uh when you called him if you know was that something that was done through Bluetooth with regard to the car or yes it would have been cuz it was my phone and I was driving so I would have had it over the car so your phone would have been paired up with your phone yes I plugged it in when I got it I always plug my phone in when I get in if I'm driving and so with your husband in the car it's fair to say that he could hear both sides of the conversation as far as you and Mr o' yes and so that initial call that you placed to Mr o'keef is that done while you're driver yes and uh what if anything were you telling him as far as that he had asked for the he said where to I gave him um the address and then I believe I you know just started giving him directions and I actually think Matt spoke over me and was saying go this way go this way and then um I said yeah you just go down to Fe of view at the bottom and so as far as the directions do you recall anything specifically about what you told Mr o'keef as far as where the directions were um well he actually called back a second time and when he called back a second time I I instructed him that it was by a friend's house uh one of our my NE uh his niece and my daughter's friend and I said oh just it's right you know go past Bella's street it's at the bottom of the hill and before we get to that just as far as um that initial phone call uh essentially Fairview Road you're familiar with yes and um it's where your sister lives with her family correct yes and um if I could just ask with regards to your sister's husband R um how long have you known him um since I was in kindergarten very long time um so they had dated for some period of time before they got married and they had been married yeah she had a crush on them for years then they dated I think for 10 years and before they got married so yeah they've been together most of my life so you're familiar with fair viiew in the sense that there's on one end of it is Chapman and one end of it is CED correct correct and just in that initial phone call that you had with Mr o'e and your you and your husband are giving directions you recall uh if you were indicating to him to go to cedarest or go to Chapman in order to get on P go to Chapman and is that the way that you went as far as going from Washington Street downtown to Fair yes now how um how long a drive is that going from the waterfall to Fair Road approximately five plus minutes depending on if you hit lights now if you're indicating suit excuse me you're indicating to someone to come down Chapman and you said it was I'm sorry your testimony is it's sort of towards the end that direction the end of Fair View the bottom of Fair View and that's to my point as far as the bottom if any kind of incline or decline or how does the road sort of situated as you come from the Chapman side down to where your sister lives 34 it's a hill and the hill goes down is that correct yes is that somewhat of a precipitous how how would you describe sort of the Hill well the first Hill uh is a bit Steep and then it flattens a little and then there's another Hill but that the second Hill is more long it was actually two Hills as you're going down corre yes now you mentioned the second call Mr o' then calls you yes and about how much time elapsed between when you first talked to Mr O a second um approximately four five minutes tops during either call that you uh had with Mr o' could you hear anything uh you had it on Blue correct yes uh could you tell whether or not he was connected to a Bluetooth could you hear anything in the background I couldn't know and as far as um when you were speaking to Mr uh did he Express an intent that he was going to to the house of fa you yes it was he was driving there and he was trying to find it and when uh he indicated that he was trying to find it was he expressing that in singular or plural or something else no more General like where is it tip make any reference uh during the time that you were talking to him to anyone you was with no and now as far as the second call you indicated uh what did you use exactly as a sort of a geographic locator our uh my daughter and his niece's um very close friend uh lives on a side street off a Fairview so I just said go past Bella Street and that's at the bottom and Bella is someone that's through his niece uh John o'keef would have known correct correct now at this time uh or at this time what if any relationship were you aware of between Bella's mother and jonov um they had dated brief I'm going to allow it they had dated briefly years before now was that sort of the substance of the conversation that you have with Mr oi in that second phone call yes now after that second phone call uh did you speak to Mr O'Keefe on the phone at any point in time after that no now you arrived at the house on Fairview uh do you recall where you parked when you got there yes pulled into the driveway and the driveway um at the house of Fairview essentially has two garage doors is that correct yes sort of winds out as you get to the top closer of the house yes you recall where in relation to the driveway was you parked when you got there I just remember pulling in there was definitely a car in front of me um there possibly could have been a car to the left you exit the vehicle go into the house correct correct when you get to the house uh who with anyone do You observe in um when I walk in Caitlyn Albert Brian Albert uh Julie Nagel and Sarah levenson are all sitting at the kitchen table um my sister Nicole was um in the kitchen um wiping the counters cuz she's always cleaning and Brian um Albert and Brian Higgins were um in the the I guess you'd call it the TV room area just standing and talking ma'am I'm sorry I'm just having a little trouble hearing you so oh okay that microphone you can adjust that any way you want so anywhere you want to put that okay thank um okay and so when you come into the house uh where were mentioned the table where where were people situated um in the kitchen now with respect um to to what was going on at at the house uh throughout the course of the evening that you were there um I sat at the table and I just spoke to Brian and Katie and the two girls most of the night and and just so we're clear when you're talking about Brian that's uh Brian a Jr or Little Brian yeah little Brian yeah little Brian now as far as uh at any point in time when you were at the house um um you're familiar with the a gentleman name uh named Colin Albert I am yes how do you know um he is my friend's son and my sister's nephew your friend Julie son correct yes and my friend Julie son and your oldest daughter Ally was calling friends or is calling friends with your oldest daughter Ally yes they're born uh a week or two apart and we've kind of just they've done everything together they're very good friends now at any point in time that you were there uh on that early morning did you see Colin Albert at all no and when you arrived at the house uh obviously you're familiar with your daughter in the car that she drives around that time did you see your daughter there Aly at any point in time no were you aware at any point in time in that early morning hour that you were there that your daughter had been there at any point in time Pro sist now with reference uh to the home at any point in time uh did John o' Keef ever come inside the house no during the time that you were there let me ask more specifically about how long a period of time was it that you were there about what time did you leave I believe I left approximately around 1:30 1:45 approximately and do you know about what time it was that you arrived there I'd say approximately somewhere between 12:20 12:30 well 12:20 I believe 12 20ish cuz the last call from John when I went back and looked was 1218 now similar to what I asked about the waterfall as far as the sort of mood meanor inside the house what if anything you recall with respect to that um good everybody was in a good mood there was no Brian and Brian were talking my sister was cleaning I was talking with the kids you know just a normal night now while you were in uh the kitchen dining room area for the time that you were there um did you see anybody or observe anybody from the group that You' just described uh go anywhere else in the house as far as away from from that area Julie Nagle went outside so beyond Julie Nago going outside did you see anybody else go upstairs downstairs to basement area or anywhere else in the house no now now that you when you were in the car and you were driving you hooked your your phone up to the charger is that right yes you recall charging your phone at any point in time when you were at your sister's house on Fairview that night I don't recall you mentioned uh Julie Nel Sarah levenson were those people that you knew prior to that night of the 28 I was familiar with who Sarah levenson was maybe had run into her different points um Julie Nagel um was closer to Brian so I would see her I think she's dog set for me when I've been away like Brian will do it but then if he's not available Julie will do it um I don't know if she had dog sat me before then or right after then but I was definitely familiar with Julie and she possibly could have dog sat for me prior to that and now with reference um there was also someone there by the name of Brian Higgins is that correct correct and that is also someone who was there prior to you getting there is that right yes and what if anything did you know about Mr Higgins or did you know him prior to that I had met him a few times he's Brian Albert's friend so other than being your brother-in-law's friend and meeting him a couple times you didn't really know him that well fair to say fa yes now you mentioned at some point uh Julie went outside right went outside yes and do you know what she was going outside for yes her brother had come to pick her up um and so she was going to go tell him invite you know try to get him to come in and what if any conversation did you have uh with Miss Nagel or Miss levenson in regard to uh their going home prior to miss Nagel going on talk about I sustain it in that form um what if anything had you said to miss Nago prior to her going out to to the prior to her going out time sustained now if you know about how long was missel outside I believe it was just a few minutes and at any point in time while miss nle was outside what if anything excuse me when Miss Nago went outside what were you I was sitting at the table and then my NE neph had said another car was out there and after your NE said that what if anything you do um I went to the front door and uh front door of the home um leaves sort of you walk in there there's a fouryear and a staircase in front of you yes and as far as the front door was concerned uh is there any sort of other door that's um is it just sort of the wooden front door or is there another door in front of it um um the door was open so it was just a storm door and storm door is made out of glass is that correct yes um so when you went over to the storm door and looked out what if anything they um I saw a vehicle and can you describe the vehicle that you saw uh I saw a doc SUV and as far as Miss Nagel did you make any observations where she was when you looked outside I kind of just looked at the vehicle and then I saw I saw um there was I saw lights kind of over to this side um but then once I saw the vehicle I took out my phone and I texted John and just we clear as far as when you say this side so you're standing at the storm door see the vehicle and where is the vehicle in relation to you and where you're standing at the it was straight ahead now the headlights that you were saying is sort of off to the side from your perspective looking out at the street is that to the left to the right or something else left and uh as far as this dark SUV that you saw uh could you tell anything else about it as far as make or model or did you recognize it at all no now at this time on January 29th 20122 were you familiar with um any sort of vehicles that that Mr O had yes what kind of vehicles gosh I don't know the brand it's you know is a small SUV type called like what color it was his might have been grayish I'm not 100% sure and any other vehicles that he may have have yes he had um this oldfashioned car um that he loved but Kaye is so embarrassed of it um but yeah he had that as well now as far as Miss Reed was concerned were you familiar with what kind of vehicle she had at that time yes and what kind of vehicle were you generally aware of her driving um she had a Lexus was that a sedan or an SUV or what kind of vle I think it was like a small SUV now the vehicle that you saw outside of the residence in Fairview when you looked at the storm door was that consistent with what you knew Miss Reed to be driving at that time yes now as far as that vehicle was concerned at any point in time over the course of the evening did you see anyone exit that vehicle or come out of that vehicle at all no certainly never saw anybody exit that vehic walk over and come inside the house sustained as far as uh that vehicle when you first saw it could you tell whether or not it was uh running or anything like that it was running yes I could the um you know it could tell it was running it had the like the tail lights I could see the red I'm going to actually keep your voice up okay okay sorry now in addition to the tail lights that you saw can you see the headlights or anything like that yes the headlights were on and as far as the interior of the vehicle were there any lights on inside the vehicle that you saw at any point in time no And as far as the windows of the vehicle uh what if anything did You observe as far as their coloration was tint or anything like that that you saw didn't observe no now you see the vehicle sort of straight ahead of the front door and then you pull out your phone to text Mr oie correct correct you recall what you texted to him at that point I think I said here question mark you think you said here is that correct yes may approach yes show Mr Jackson okay for apprach wi yes showing you aage document just ask look okay just generally speaking that three-page document do you recognize contents of that I do what do you recognize it to be it's my text um messaging with John so from sort of the early part of the 28th around midnight through I'm sorry the 29th through uh the entirety of the 29th yes I approach yes is there any objection Mr Jackson okay e e e e e e actually great timing so we'll have you back here at 2 o' and M M I'll just ask you to let jur walk firstt all goodbye okay so we're still in session that that's what I was hoping for thank you um yes all right thank you and then Mr L you'll be able to make those redactions that are necessary over the lunch and break yes R I think what we can uh um and by we I mean Miss Gilman because she's the one who can actually do the these things um but no I I think we will be able to sort of take the whole numbers off of it and be able to print new copies without the numbers so that they can be us the same version exact same authentic authentication redacted for purposes of admission and um publication yes yes all right great I appreciate that we'll see you at 2 o'cl thank you very much e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e for good afternoon cour back in session please be seated thank you all right so Mr L just before you begin folks I I neglected to tell you before or during the testimony of Mr mcab and I don't want to keep repe repeting instructions but I do want to remind you when it comes to electronic communications um before you can consider them in your deliberations you must first find that it's more likely true than not that the person who authored or sent the communication was in fact the person identified is doing so uh if you do not find it more likely true than not that the person identified is sending the message was the one who sent it then you may not consider that electronic Communication in your deliberation all right thank you Mr L go ahead thank you may appr yes those pages that I've just placed before you do you recognize the content of those I do and what do you recognize those they are text messages between myself and John and from sort of specifically that time period of the early morning of January 29th through the morning of January 29th yes um and what's contained in those is that a a fair and accurate portrayal of the content of those text Communications yes now with reference to um Mr o' this is someone that you knew and you had his uh um information uh put into your phone as far as a contact yes and on prior occasions when you had uh contacted or or specifically that uh morning when you had left the waterfall and you talked to him on the phone you called him and who answered you call the contact that you had is John o' right yes okay who answered the phone John okay and then the contacts that you had put in as John o' called you and you answered and who was on the other line John okay want may approach yes SE to introduce and aditt next no objection thank you this is subject to what we talked about in C yes understood thank you exibit all right thank you y with respect to what's now been marked as exhibit 89 if I could with the court commission publish that J yes okay what's up on the screen is that what you have before you as that exhibit yes and this is a text communication between yourself and Mr corre correct you're I'm sorry to do this may we sure why don't you take that down Miss Gilman and thank you e that than so M with what's for you and what's up on the screen as the exhibits um there are sort of green bubbles of BL correct correct and can you tell the jury as far as who's communicating which direction as green bubble for Who and the blue bubble green is John and blue is myself and so the first text from this particular date if you could just read the jury as far from whom the message is sent what content is and then what the time so John sent to me where to at 124 okay um so the next uh bubble down is a a blue bubble is that correct correct similar to the one before can you just read as far as that well before I get to that I'm so you receive that message from Mr o' you call him have a conversation he calls you back for the conversation correct and then subsequent to that could read the next blue bubble down as far as from whom what the fent is and what time so this one is from myself to John and it says is here at 12:27 so at that point I see a car out front and I text him here looking storm dooring a car [Applause] correct' similar if you could just who sent it what's the what is that time I sent to John pull behind me at 12:31 and what were you referring to when you said pull behind so at this point um the car had moved from the prior spot where I originally saw it so I thought what is he doing why don't they just pull behind me in the you know in the driveway from to John saying hello and it was at 12:40 at this point time as let me ask it this way when you're sending these text messages over these periodic um what if anything are you doing sort of so I would go I originally went to the front door saw the car texted them that texted John then I went back kind of sat at the table um just either through my phone probably in my back pocket um and then a couple minutes later I got up again and saw that the car had moved so I had sent the F you know the pole behind me and then a few minutes later I went back to the window uh to the front door I'm sorry and when you went back to the front door what have anything see so at this specific point at 12:40 when I say hello I cannot be certain whether they were still out front or if they had left and from any of these text messes that you sent what P response did you receive Mr after none sure Jen to John where are you and that was at 12:42 myself to John hello at 12:45 now this is later in the morning and we'll get to that a little bit more than but at some point you left the resident of Fairview you went home and you were awoken by something and then at some point you texted John later on that morning 29 yes the next couple text mes that correct myself to John please answer at 4:59 myself to John Karen is worried we need to find you at 4:59 myself to John please answer so I know you're okay 504 may approach just [Music] Retreat now m m I can take you back to at the house on Fair View again your sending these text messages um and going back to the table and then going back to the window at various times to the front door to the front door yes and uh at any point in time you see anybody exit from uh the dark SUV or the black SUV you see in front of the house no and at any point in time did John o' come into the house no and at any point in time did John O respond to your text messages no at any point in time did John o' call no now at some point um subsequent to this have you had occasion to look at your phone or at your call history yes and through review of that were you able to see phone calls uh that your phone made to John O'Keefe's Phone around that same time frame that you were texting him and going to the storm yes may I approach R yes for I'm showing you a four page document finish and if I could suggest I think it starts in reverse order from page four timing wise up through Page just generally speaking man you recognize what's contained in that four page document I do and what do you recognize the calls between myself and John o'keef and am I correct that it starts in sort of a uh sending order as far as the most the earliest calls are on page four and then the most recent are on the first page yes and uh the phone calls that you were testifying to about before as far as talking to him on the way from uh the waterfall to residents at Fairview did they appear in those they do e e okay so Mr as far as the um first calls that you were testifying about as far as when you spoke to Mr O on the way from the waterfall to the residents and Fair View of those contained within those calls yes uh as far as there that's associated with those calls that you observe in those four page documents yes and what are 1214 and 128 and turning your attention to page one that would be sort of the the last in in line there um what time is the last call between yourself and and Mr o'keef and who's calling I'm calling him at 525 I approach yes ex is there any objection there's not thank you now M mcab uh you would mentioned that during the course of of the evening shortly after you arrive at the residents of Fairview You observe vehicle outside of of your sister's house correct yes and your honor with course commission I would ask to publish with this witness exhibit 71 72 and 73 okay and Mr K first and foremost what's up on the screen is 71 you I do okay I think you can just go right to what you want her to identify Please Mr L in front of you on the desk there should be a a laser pointer just click on the button and and point at the screen and if I could ask uh if you could uh direct well first for with respect to this Photograph Do You observe uh in this Photograph where you first saw the black SUV in front of house it was directly if I was staring out the front door so I this angle is kind of unique to see it um but if you go from the front door directly straight out so maybe the edge if you understand what I'm saying so if there's the front door and I look straight out but the perception is almost like a side view it's not straight on so it could have been a little over here so Ellie why don't you show another picture if it's this one isn't helpful yes so just be follow this and then come straight and now Mr testified that another point you come to the front door and You observe vehicle a COR correct you could again using the laser pointer just attention to where in this Photograph if at all you with second was right about um right near the flag pole now turning your attention to back in the home at some point you indicated you looked out and didn't see the black SUV there anymore correct and what was your thought as far as um where John was or where John had gone at that point at that point I thought maybe um they decided not to come in maybe they got into an argument or maybe Kaylee had called did you think much of it at that point no now you leave the home around uh what time approximately 130 between roughly 1:30 145 and when you leave uh who if anyone goes with so it's myself my husband Matt and I had offered um when Julie nagle's brother had come well had come to the house earlier I had offered Julie and Sarah levenson a ride home because we had just gotten there and they had wanted to stay later so I also drove home Julie and Sarah well my husband drove them home and so you exit the house go out to the vehicle correct correct and your husband Matt was driving yes where are you seated in the car in the front seat and do you recall where Miss Lon and Miss n were seated in the car they were in the back seat you recall which one was on which side I do not and when you come out of the house and you're starting to go home uh what if anything had changed as far as the weather from when you had gone in to when you would come out the snow had P you know accumulated more and um when you get into the vehicle and as the vehicle is pulling away what if any conversation do you recall having with anyone in the car um I when I got in the car I kind of turned around to the Jew I'm going to allow this subject to move in St there portion that's Rel go ahead I turned around and was facing them and talking to them and um I believe Sarah levenson had laughed or made a joke because I had bread or something in my car um and we made a joke about that I had had my niece earlier that week for the week um and so I had brought stuff in the car because I was dragging her from one of my kids sporting events to the next and as um do you recall which direction or did you observe which direction uh your husband Matt exited from residence in Fairview and by that I mean did he head towards Chapman or did he head towards super Chapman and uh so as far as um I may not have asked this before but as far as the the black SUV that you observed in front of the house which direction was that vehicle facing Chapman each of the times that you saw it yes and so as with that vehicle as with the one uh that your husband was driving which side of the vehicle would have been closest to the house and fair passenger now as you're driving the house heading how were you positioned within the car I'm turned chatting to the girls so and when you're turned are you turned towards the window or are you turned towards the console which way are you turn the console towards the back seat so my back is to the window and uh either of these girls did you know where they lived no um do you recall whether or not you found their home by way of s yes or was it just sort of verbal directions I'm assuming they just gave Matt directions to where they lived so you drop each of them off uh do you recall which order they were dropped off uh Julie then Sarah and then following dropping off Sarah where did you and your husband go home and this whole trip sort of from Fairview to dropping off Miss N Miss Lon and then going home about how long a period of time that uh it could be 20 30 minutes approx maybe about approximately 20 minutes not exactly sure you arrived home sometime after 2 A.M is that correct yes and when you and your husband back got home um went inside the house and where did you go I went upstairs to bed and at some point did your husband come up as well he did was it a long period of time between when you arrived home and when your husband came up I don't think too long I think he had like some cheese or something because he was on a crazy diet and then he came upstairs now did you go right to sleep or what if anything did you do when you went up to bed um I asked him to watch a show he said no he was going to fall asleep which he does usually immediately and I went on my phone and uh what if anything you recall doing on your phone as far as going on I had I was researching um my husband and I did briefly talk um my daughter had gotten an offer to play on um a club bath just uh just tell us what you were doing please sure I was researching a basketball team and I believe I also texted my sisters and I texted uh in a group chat with my husband and another individual now if I could just um turn your attention back to when you're at the house on Fairview um that evening and I believe this is the last one so I apologize for back and forth but when you were there um what if any videos or any music or anything did you pull up on your phone uh to share with the the group that so my one of my sisters loves this song Raining Men um and she always well not always maybe every once in a while she's a little too much to drink and takes out an umbrella and sings and dances and it's like a big family joke and my other nephew had previously been over and showed me the video from whenever I don't know if it's the 1970s of its reigning men so I just was playing it showing my other nieces and nephews and we were just like laughing cuz they all have umbrellas and it's just something it's like an inside family joke so I played that I think a couple of times and so after um you get home and you're looking at the the basketball program and things of that nature what if anything else did you do before you went to bed or went to sleep I um nothing I possibly could have gotten up to go to the bathroom I do that almost every night now at this time you had an iPhone is that correct yeah um did you also have an Apple Watch I did yes and do you recall whether or not you were wearing the Apple watch that evening or when you went to bed or anything like that I do not recall and as far as the Apple watch is concerned is that something that you routinely or always take off before you go to bed or not mostly but not always I mean there are times I go to bed with it on um more often than not I take it off but there are times that I do sleep with it and with respect to this particular evening do you recall whether you had it on or whether you took it off or even had it on at all I don't recall if I had it on that night now turning back to that last exhibit as far as the phone calls were concerned um were there um certain phone calls uh that you made to Mr O's phone around the time that you were observing the vehicle outside yes did you recall making any phone calls to Mr O at that time I don't say that at no point while you saw the vehicle outside did you have any conversation with Missi I didn't now you go to sleep um and at some point later on in the morning uh you wake up correct correct and what is it that wakes you up and when about was that I woken up to my phone ringing and do you know what time it was 4:53 and according to your phone who was calling you at 4:53 John's niece and so that would be John's niece kayy is that correct correct and how old was she at this time I believe she was 14 and she had just gotten into bishopan correct correct so she was in eighth grade going in finishing up her eighth grade year of Middle School correct yes is that a normal thing that um kayy will be calling you at 4:53 in the morning on a Saturday no um so you answer the call is that correct yes when you answer the call who if anyone is initially on the other uh initially it's Kaylee and what if anything that Kaye say to you um that John didn't come home and Karen and we wanted to talk to me and even in that initial call when you're speaking to kayy what if anything you hear sort of in the background when you're talking Karen screaming and could you hear what she was screaming she was just screaming J you know Jen Jen fairly loudly is that correct extremely now at some point does uh a defendant get on the phone with you she does and what have any conversation do you have with her at that she proceeds to scream my name multiple times and she tells me that John didn't come home they got into a fight and that she left him at the waterfall and how do you respond I had just woken up I was I was confused I didn't know what she was talking about I was trying to I was like what what are you talking about and then she you know told me that they had gotten into a fight and she left him there and now where is he and she was just kept screaming my name over and over and so then I remembered that Chris Albert had still been at the bar so I thought well maybe maybe John walked home with Chris because Chris lives close to the waterfall and so at some point that conversation ended and you recall how how that ended I told her that I was going to call Julie and see if um John had ended up with Chris and so you hang up with her and then what did you do then I called Julie Albert and did Julie pick up the phone she did not and as you were calling Julie did you have any conversation with your husband Matt around that time yes he you know had kind of shot up out of bed when um Karen had called uh well and Kaylee had called because Karen was screaming and then he was what's going on and I said well I'm calling Julie cuz Karen they got into a fight and I was trying to explain it to him and he said what are you talking about we saw them outside of your sister's house and at that point I hung up and when you hung up Julie had not answered yet is that correct correct now as far as Miss Reed and your is that someone who had your phone number did you have her plugged in your phone as a contact on before that uh before that date of January 29th no we never had any kind of conversation with her over phone as far as a text or a phone call or anything you didn't even have her information correct and so after hanging up um while calling Julie what if anything you do that and then I'm not sure if I called Kaylee back or if Kaylee called me back at some point you get back in touch with Kaye or leaves her phone correct with yes I get Karen I get in touch with Karen again and I say Karen we saw you outside of my sisters and what was her response that she told me that she didn't remember going there and then she started yelling um Jen Jen and then she was saying did I hit him could I have hit him and then she proceeded to say that she had a cracked tail light and this is while you're still in your home and you're in your bedroom correct correct and what was your response to that I just I thought she was honestly like just talking crazy and then she said oh my God I left him there like she was extremely irrational um she said that it told me again that they had gotten into a fight so now she was just kind of all over the place just screaming she was very hard to understand um so my brain started going okay well if she left him there where could he be who could he be with and as you're going through that sort of process what did you do next so then earlier in the night there was another individual who we had been in contact with or my hus husband had been talking to and he was going to he had mentioned that he was going to meet up with John um at waterfall as well but he never ended up coming um I knew he was at a house um close to fair viiew so I thought well maybe if they got into a fight like to John might have texted this individual and maybe he just ended up on his couch who was that individual um Tom Bey and how did who was Tom Tom batty in relation to how did you know him um he has two daughters that are the same age as my daughters ask one of those daughters at least uh around the same age as Kaye yes and so based on sort of that process thought process and what you doing what did you do then so then I start calling Tom and at any point in time did you call Tom did Tom pick up the phone did you speak with him he did not and so following that what did you do so I know it's point I was calling starting to call John my husband was as well um at that point I get up and I'm like okay well get to go out and look for him um and my head I was thinking I'll drive over to Tom's and maybe he's there um I then go downstairs Matt gets up he's starting to get dressed I go downstairs I make a coffee and um I'm not sure how much time passed um but then all of a sudden I hear screaming out front now if I could just take you back for a second as far as um decade or so that you had known and been friends with John o' with his either his niece or his nephew are both home is him not coming home is that something that had ever happened before you were ever aware of before I was never ask it had John ever gone out at night and then not come home when the kids know not to my knowledge no um so at some point you make your way downstairs is that right correct and then what if anything did you hear once you were downstairs screaming and where was the screaming coming from out front and when you heard that screaming where did you go I ran to my front door at some point did you open your front door I opened my front door correct and then what did you see when you open door Miss Reed came running up my walkway and prior to during any of the other conversations that you had had with Miss Reeds um did you know where she was when you were talking to her no um obviously the first call was Kaye calling from the house that assumption and then sub that yes yes and as far as the second call that you were talking about do you know where she was when she was talking to you then the first couple calls I know she was at the house and then I don't know so was opening your door hearing the screaming from out front was that something that surprised you yes and when you hear the screaming if you could just explain to the jury how loud was the screaming that you would very loud and what if anything was she saying at this it was more of the Jen Jen did I hit him and then she would yell did I hit him could could I have hit him and then she was yelling we have to go to fair viiew and in addition to miss Reed what if anything else did you see when you opened up the door um just in a better way you see a vehicle yes and uh where was the vehicle and what did the vehicle look like it was in my driveway I believe the driver door was left open and what kind of vehicle was it um a black Lexus consistent with what you had seen outside of Fairview the night or earlier in the morning yes and so as she's she's coming up your walk toward your front door running yes and then what if any conversation did you have with her there in reference to that I just said Karen Karen you know I was trying to calm her down Matt came I believe and was yelling down that she was going to wake up the neighborhood um and then she was yelling that we had to go to faar viiew so I told Matt that I would was going to go with Karen um initially before that uh what were your plans as far as going to look for John's before Miss Reed showed up my husband and I were going to go to Tom be's now once you decide that now you're going with Miss Reed the defendant where where did the two of you go so as we walked out there was um A car pulled up and then a plow recognize the car that pulled up no I'm sorry so the car pulls up and then the plow and then what happen um so in the car was Carrie Roberts and so she kind of rolled down the window and was like Karen what are you doing and then the plow was behind her so Karen uh Carrie pulled up and she I believe Karen I told Karen that I was going to drive her car cuz I didn't want her driving cuz she was hysterical so we got in her car and then Carrie Roberts called Karen and then Karen was screaming and um you know saying that she had cracked her tail light we need to go to Fair viiew could I have hit him did I hit him and then she would just scream our names um Carrie was telling her to shut up um that we needed to just go back to John's and we'll drive in one car and let's go to John's maybe he's there and he's passed out and you didn't see him now when you open up the door initially and you come outside and you see the defendant out there screaming and all that um again with respect to the weather what was the weather at that point it was it was like dark and it was almost like a white out and so you get into re's vehicle correct yes and you're driving that vehicle from your house uh to Meadow da is that correct yes that's Mr O's house yes you're familiar with that residence you've been there plenty of times before yes now with respect to krie Roberts did you know krie Roberts prior to this morning of January 29th I had met her once before and can you describe for the jury sort of the circumstances of that or how you knew were prior to January 20 back way back when um after John's sister and brother-in-law died I would have Kaylee a lot and um Carrie would have Patrick and one day John said I get a discount at rebok I'm going to take you guys for sneakers get all your kids sizes so he took Carrie and myself and we went to rebok and bought sneakers for all my girls and me and um then he took Carrie and I to the hillside for lunch just to thank thank him for um you know helping because that's what he did now was Carrie Roberts uh someone that you had as contact saved in your phone had you ever texted her called her talked to her over your phone before no so you indicated that Miss Roberts then calls Miss Reed's phone while you're in Miss Reed's car correct yes now as far as uh that um Miss Reed's phone was that similar to your phone the the earlier in the morning was that hooked up in any way or matched or paired with the vehicle that you were driving yes so fair to say you could hear both sides of the conversation as far as Miss Reed U talking next to you and then obviously Miss Roberts on the other end yes so the conversation that you were talking about as far as Miss Robert saying shut up and and we're going to meow daav and all that you could hear Miss robertt saying that yes now the vehicle when you um when you get into the defendant's vehicle uh she pulled in straight into your driveway is that correct yes so fair to say you had to back out of the driveway correct correct now when you were operating this Reed's vehicle in Reverse uh what if anything showed up in sort of the center console area of that V I do not remember I don't know you call anything as far as a camera or anything like that I don't remember I I don't remember you back the vehicle out of the driveway and you proceed to meow dab correct yes and about how long a drive visit from your house to Mr O approximately five six minutes and when you get to Mr oi's house um where do you park I pull in the street in the driveway and after you pull into the driveway at some point you all get out correct yes you Rec call who pulled in first as far as who was in front of who on the way to Meadows yourself or Miss Robert I believe I was in front he would have pulled into the driveway and parked and Miss Roberts would have pulled in and parked behind correct yes and so after the three of you get out of your respective Vehicles what happened Karen brings us to the back of the car and she says look see I have a crack tail light and where on the vehicle was she directing yourself in Miss Robert's attentions the back right pass through side rear part of the V yes and when you looked at that area of the vehicle what could you see at that I saw that there were missing pieces but there was also Snow covering it and Karen was screaming look look and then Carrie was screaming back at her it was a very chaotic um so I didn't stare in depth but what I can tell you is they were missing I saw missing pieces from the tail light and and at some point uh about how long a period of time is this that you're out in Mr O driveway looking at the cck not long because then we're car's you know yelling at her telling her she's crazy and that she was driving around drunk and she could have hit anything and kind of rushes up us to go into the house um to look in there for John with permission I would ask if I could publish on the screen what's been marked as exhibit number two okay and you recognize what's up on screen I do what is that that is Meadows AV John's house and the driveway that you're talking about as far as where you pulled in that's not visible it's correct so from facing house on meows which side of the photograph would the driveway be the left or the right and your may approach yes I'm just showing you another photographs um just ask you to look at that look help finish okay and you recognize what's in that photograph yes what do you recogniz that's John's car and where is John's Car in relation to to John um it's parked to the side of the driveway and you also see sort of the garage area in that photograph yes may apprach you with the question Mission if I get publish after the jury now as well okay now Mr C with reference to what's up on the screen is that the photo that you just have yes and there are two Gage doors on the house at one meow correct correct left and right way yes and you've been inside M house correct yes now with respect to the garage door on the left what was contained within that part of his oldfashioned car one didn't like yes and on the right side of the garage was it's pretty open um how would you describe Mr o'keef as far as um how he kept things around his house uh either in the house or the lawn around uh John was very meticulous everything had its place now when you arrived there on the morning of the 29th vehicle wasn't parked in that correct correct um from of outside of residents were you aware of there being any sort of security cameras or anything on on fixed to the house of one meab at that time yes how are you we John told us he was yeah I don't remember remember years prior I believe he came over and he was so excited that he got in a ring and he would always show us it he just was always watching and when he would show you that how would he show you on what kind of device on his phone he had the ring application hook up to his cell yes now with respect to that morning when you arrived um if you could using the laser pointer just sort of late for the jury so would be right there because John's car was further over's car was further over toward the fence towards the fence yes and so when you arrive there you're looking at the tail light and at some point you go in the house correct correct how did you get into the house that morning the right garage door was open now that something normal as far as when you get to Mr O house and the garage door is open in the snowstorm no and uh so you go in through the garage door and then you go into the house correct yes and M you can take so Mr if you could describe to the jury sort of how you when you come into that right garage door and you start to go into the house um what is it when you you see when you first come into the house and what is sort of the layout of of Mr O's house you walk in um from the garage and there's a mud room and typically when you would walk into Mr ''s house what if anything would you or anyone else do when they walked into his house take off your shoes and why was it he didn't want dirt or that morning snow probably getting all over his house and so that was a pretty well-known rule for anybody that spent any time at at his house on Meadow yes and so when you and Miss Roberts and Miss Reed walk into the home that uh that morning into the mud room what did you do what did Miss Roberts do what did Miss Reed do I took off my boots or shoes whatever I had on um Carrie Roberts took off Karen just ran straight in the house you and Miss Roberts both took off your shoes and Miss Reed then just walked into the house with boots or shoes or whatever she was wearing on yes and then once you get into the house where is it that the three of you went respective once once you got in we all dispersed um I looked in the TV room where there is a couch um then I kind of walked through a dining room and then I peaked into a living room I went upstairs I looked in John's room um Carrie was also running around different rooms and then I went into kayle's room and during this time when you and Miss Roberts are sort of going around room to room what was it defend I'm not sure when you see her doing the same thing that you were doing no now with respect to you went at least peaked into John's bedroom is that right yes what if anything did you note about the bed when you looked it was made and so then you go into kayle's room and check on her correct yeah yes and at any point in time did you see Patrick at any point no and were you aware of where Patrick was or did you know at that point at that point I believe Kaylee told me he was at a sleepover um so you have some conversation with Kaye is that right yes and um about how long a conversation did you have with Kay um probably about a few minutes and U when you left from kayy what is it that you said to her as you were leaving objection I I promised Kaye I promised Kaye that I would find John and everything was going to be okay so after that where did the where did the three of you go from after that the three of us got in the car and we drove to um fair viiew and when you say you got into the car which part of the game um carries got a may approach yes showing you two photographs again if you could just look at those and look up when you finish did you recognize what's in those photographs yes and what do you recognize those to the defendant's vehicle and may I approach yes call speak the next no objection than with the Court's permission if I could Mr C what's depicted in this photograph is the defended Miss read the vehicle correct correct and uh in sort of focus here is the right rear passenger side of that vehicle correct correct and the tail light if you could with laser pointer just direct the jury's attention to where you observe that now man with respect to what's depicted in this Photograph as far as any damage That You observe to this tail light area on rear passenger side was that consistent with what you observed in the driveway at one of Meadows app when the defendant was showing correct minus the snow Etc again you recognize what's depicted in this photograph yes and this is essentially a closer image of that same rear passenger side tail light correct yes again what's dep picking in this is that consistent with what you observed minus sort of the CED in snow when you were in the driveway of Mr o' House on the morning of the 29th yes Gman you can take that down in your H with the Court's permission I would ask to publish just a short portion of actually I'm sorry um if I could publish a portion of what's been marked as exhibit 6 which is the the ring camera from the driveway okay Miss Gilman if I could have um video number4 [Music] from just directec your attention up to the screen what's been mark this exibit 6 or video from do you recognize what's deped in this video I do what do you recognize that's myself getting out of the car at Meadows AV is that essentially where you parked Miss re's vehicle when you pulled in yes if you could just direct the jury's attention with the laser pointer as to where Miss Reed's vehicle is that you parked in if you see Miss Robert's vehicle that is Miss Reeds and that would be Miss Roberts as far as the right garage door that you entered into the house if you could direct the J's attention to whereabouts that would I know it's not on the video but where would it be walk [Music] straight for Mr K what was depicted in that video is that consistent with what you observed uh the weather conditions to be around the time that you arrived at Mr O'Keefe's house yes and lastly in this line um you IFI with the course permission could publish just a very short portion of what's been marked as exhibit 41 gentlemen if I could ask you to fast forward this to about uh two hours and 10 minutes what's video youn yes I do that is John's house now what's depicted in this video sort of the screen directly in front of you do you recognize who that is yes what do you recognize that John's driveway as far as what if anything You observe in John's Drive John's car and Karen's car and where uh if you could using the way point just direct her attention to where is bar and where is Mr O'Keefe's car and to the defendants and where you observe the defendants c b is that essentially where you parked it at that time yes sure I'll see councel at cbar for just a minute for e jurus I just want to tell I I appreciate Council trying to work together for this it's probably going to take too long so we're just going to make doe um we've had enough interruptions today now Mr as far as what you observe from what you can on the screen right now um the condition of the passenger side light is that consistent with What You observe when you park the vehicle there sometime earli that it's kind of hard to see from this distance and just if you could lastly just with the laser direct attention where video you see the rear passenger side tail it's goinging you can take now miss m you then yourself the defendant and Miss Roberts then get into Miss Roberts's vehicle is that correct yes SE where within Miss Roberts's vehicle as you're going from Meadows out or where what was the plan and where were you going sort of first when you when you left Meadow we were going to fair viw and why were you going to Fair because Karen kept screaming we need to go to Fairview now who was seated where within the vehicle when you get it Carrie was driving I was in the um passenger seat and Karen was in the back and uh what were the lighting conditions at this point that you're driving over there it was it was hard to see out the window you really had to be kind of staring out it was dark um the snow was coming out the car and as you're making that drive where res Miss Roberts is making that drive from Meadow Fair VI um about how long a drive is um approximately 10 minutes I mean with the weather the lights you know the street lights I I would say about 10 minutes I'm give or take and as far as um during the drive from Meadow zav to Fairview what what's going on the car over the course of that ride um Karen is in between us um like from the back kind of pushing up in between um Carrie and myself and she's just screaming Carrie Carrie her name over and over my name over and over um and repeating certain phrases could I have hit him did I hit him um Carrie is yelling at her to shut up to sit back to buckle up to look for John and while this is going on what if anything are you and Miss Roberts doing in the front seat we are just she's slowly driving and I'm just peering out the window looking for John I mean it it was a crazy situation she's screaming he didn't come home could he be walking home where is he so we're just looking out the window looking for John now during the time that this is going on and Miss re is sort of screaming in between you um was that continuous or or what if anything else did you see her doing in the back seat while you were going for Metals ad theair um I didn't see her doing anything she just continuously screamed that and then as we got by different landmarks she then started you know screaming asking if JN could be at certain people's houses and whose houses was she asking if John could be at um if she could be at um Bella's house referring to the directions that you had provided the night before correct and so that would have been Bella was a child who around the age of uh Kaye and your daughter correct yes and there have been some years in the past dating relationship between Mr ke and and Bella's mother correct yes and uh so Reed is saying that in the car that morning as we driving over to Fairview yes she asked could he have been with Ashley and I looked at her and said no because to me that was a crazy idea um and then Carrie had mentioned oh do you think he could have called somebody else that lived on a street over and she started screaming who's that who's she and you recall who Carrie referred to yes and who was that um a woman that um John had previously dated and was that anywhere recent uh in time to when you're driving around on January 29th when they had dated no so similar to Bella's mother would have been years before correct and so when Miss Robert said that what if anything to the things she was just spiraling yelling um about Ashley who was Bella's mom and just talking what I thought was very irrational about John maybe being with her so you're looking around uh outside of the vehicle as the vehicle is going down towards Fairview is that correct yes and um you recall how you how it was that Miss Roberts came about coming to Fairview similar to the night before she'd come in from the Chapman side or from the cedarest side Chapman and as the vehicle turns from Chapman on to Fair View um what if any conversation was going on at that well Bal lives on that street so that was when that conversation was being had um also just a continuation it was just like continuous screaming of our names um Carrie screaming at her to sit back and then sometimes she would sit back and almost like be quiet for a minute and then it would start all over again now as you were um coming down Fairview Road um what if anything were you saying to Miss Roberts as did Miss Roberts know where she was going as far as where your sister lived no I told her that my sister lived at the bottom and then as we got closer I said you know just past see where those trees are um just past the trees is my sister's house and as you got in that area of sort of the trees um from the residence uh of your sister at 34 Fairview Road trees that you're talking about where where are they in relation to the prop um they're at the the start of the property is the trees and then their property begins so the flag hole area and fire hydrant that you were talking about in earlier exhibits is that in the same area as the trees yes a little it goes the trees and then the fire Hy you know then further off is the fire hydrant and the flag pole as you're coming down Fairview now approaching 34 Fair View the house would be on which side of the vehicle on the driver's side or the passenger side the driver's side and uh as you approach that area um where trees and the flagle were what if anything happens then we pass we drive past the um flag pole area and all of a sudden Karen starts screaming there he is there he is and she's banging to get out and banging on the door in the back seat yes and at the time that she's saying this uh were you able to see anything outside of the vehicle I saw nothing and what if anything when she's banging and kicking the or banging on the door what what did Miss Roberts do Miss Roberts unlock the door Karen got out Miss Roberts looked at me and said something like she's crazy or she's bad crazy something like that and when the defendant gets out of the vehicle where is it that she goes she just runs and runs with straight to John and again when she's running at this point in time can you see what she's running toward or or where she's going or anything that she's talking about see I was on the passenger side so as she as I got out she was already at John so she gets out and essentially makes a beine over to where John was correct and you're getting out of the passenger side and by the time you come around the car she's already there yes and when she gets over there could you if anything could you see at that she straddles John and she lifts up his shirt and then she lifted up her shirt and went to lay on him and Miss Roberts um Miss Roberts went over and she was um removing the snow from his face let me take a step back from that just for a moment um in your honor with the courts permission I would ask to publish just a portion of what's been marked as exhibit Mr C I'm going to direct your attention up to the screen and what's been marked as exhibit 12 and I know this is not something that pertains to your vehicle or anything else what I'm going to ask you as it plays through is if What You observe in this video is consistent with what you observed during the drive you roll that going be quick way as this video is running Mr C if I could just ask what you see in this video is that consistent with sort of the lighting and the conditions weatherwise that you observe when Miss Roberts is driving yes for [Music] [Music] gave you recognize whereabout in the town ofon this perspective wise as far as what street where it is any landmarks That You observe in the video yes that is um Cassie we just passed Cassie's corner store and that is Chapman [Music] Street [Music] [Music] for for [Music] [Music] um again miss m do you recognize whereabouts in the town of Ken we are in this portion of the video yes this is the top of Fair View so this would be from Chapman coming on fair is that correct correct and prior to that along that ride along chap is that period of time we looking out the window and trying to see if you can see John on the side of the road yes but we didn't drive that way you came from the other direction yes yes you would have been taking instead of a right onto Fairview you would have been taking a left on Fair yes and [Music] [Music] [Music] now what's up on the screen and what you just observed as far as the drive down pair view is that par and aceri look consistent with what you observed in Mr Ro was driving down that morning yes and at this point in time as you're coming s down the hill from is this point that conversation occurs as far as's mother and prior dating relationships and things like that a little bit um more towards the top of the street mother more closer to theab Midway down yes [Music] [Music] um the vehicle on the roadway there do you recognize that yes do you recognize that to be Miss Roberts purposes wither could [Applause] attention now the area where you observe Mr o' uh do you see that in this particular frame of the video not in this Frame I cannot it's not clear see that area now yes using the laser cor just Direct happened he have problem huh okay you recognize any of the individuals up on that screen yes you could with direct recogn Carrie Roberts myself Karen Reed now M mcab if I could um just take you back to when you arrived there umic miss Reed goes over to Mr o'keef uh M Roberts what is it that you were doing at that time I got out of the car and I came around and for a second or two I um completely just froze I couldn't believe what I was seeing um and then Carrie and I made eye contact and um I called 911 and Carrie was asking me to go to the car and get um she was yelling to get towels or blankets something out of the back of our car is that why the back of the car is opened up uh in the video that we just saw in reference to miss Robert's vehicle yes did she direct you sort of where to go within the vehicle to find the blanket of tow whatever it was yes now you called 911 you spoke to the operator and and told them essentially where you were correct yes now as far as that initial what you saw um that you froze and couldn't believe what you saw can you describe to the jury what it was that you saw I saw Carrie wiping the snow off of Jon's face and I could not believe that that was John laying there and how was John positioned or how was his body position when you saw he was just laying um flat on his back and as far as the snow M Roberts was wiping off his face was there any other snow on his body at that time yes and if you know about there was enough that his body was covered in snow snow and could you tell at that point how far Mr o' was from the roadway as far as Fair Road was concerned I mean I remember kind of a little ways in I don't no exactly and so you make that call to 911 and what is sort of going on with respect to M Roberts the defendant and Mr o'keef while you're on that 911 so I run um the blankets over to Miss Roberts and she's um putting kind of lifts him up put the blankets Underneath Him and she's screaming at um Miss Reed to get off of Mr o'keef and they're kind of yelling back at back and forth Karen screaming um is he dead is he dead I at some points walk over um towards the car car's car to get away because they're so loud and I was trying to be calm and um get help there for John as fast as possible um they start Carrie starts yelling about doing CPI are um she tells Karen to do mouth to mouth um Karen's yelling um because as they start um Blood starts coming out of um John's mouth as far as the CPR that's what you're talking about yes um so during this time the defendant yelling and you're on the phone with 911 correct yes you're trying to back up distance yourself a little bit so that you can hear what's going on with the 911 operator and and they can hear you yes and um after you complete that 911 call um what's what's going on at that I go over and at that point Carrie asks if I can take over doing the compressions and did you do that I did yes and um at some point after you call 911 um to either police or fire or someone starts responds and arrives on scene is that correct yes you know about how much time it was in between when you hung up with 911 and when the First Responders start to real a from when I hung up maybe a few minutes I'm not exactly sure and do you recall whether or not it was police or fire who showed up first police and is that the officer was in that video or that Cruiser that was just up on the screen as last I didn't see the officer but I in the video but I know it was officer siif was the first officer to um arrive so then um after the officer arrives uh what what happened then he was trying to figure out what it happened um Karen just ran around screaming um my name Carrie's name um is he dead is he dead it was on repeat um could I have hit him did I hit him um more officers started to arrive um EMTs they began to work on him and while he's still while him and Sorry by him you mean Mr O yes and Mr oi still on the ground and they're working on him there is that correct yes did you see anything about sort of what they were doing or what was going on with that no I just saw a bunch of them around Mr o'keef and then what happened then um more officers began to arrive Miss Reed um just continued to run around screaming um as more offices in EMT arrived they asked what happened um one EMT um asked you know they it um one EMT had asked you know his name his age things like that um if she knew what happened um Miss Reed stated that she hit him um besides running around saying I hit him did I hit him could I have done this um is he dead is he dead at one point one of the police officers put him uh put I'm Sorry Miss Reed in the back of her Cruiser and he asked for uh myself to go over with her and Carrie came over with us as well i' like I just to take you back when the paramedic is is asking for information biog graphical information things like that um you indicated that the defendant said I hit him is that correct yes that's something that she said once or more than once three times I hit him I hit him I hit him now before you had made reference to statement she made with sort of qualifiers or questions as far as could I have hit him or did I hit him is that what she said at that time when she was speaking to the parameter no she was earlier it was could I did I when she spoke to the paramedic it was crystal CLE I hit him now one of the officers takes her over to the back of a crer is that right yes and you were over in that area as well yes who if anyone else was over in that Miss Roberts and while you were over in that area what was what was going on over we were um in the back of the police cruiser Ken was sitting in there I kind of scooched myself in Miss re uh Miss Roberts came over Karen um grabbed our hands she asked us to pray um she looked at her hands and she had blood she asked us if she could um have gotten her period um we told her no that was um John's blood then she said what if he's dead promise me you'll take care of the kids someone's going to take care of the kids um then we prayed um then at the end um Mr they were moving um John and at that point Karen um told Carrie go over look is he dead is he dead is he dead over and over and car and car Carrie said I'll go over and check on them and she was yelling are they working on them and then at that point she grabbed my hands and she said Google hypothermia Google how long it takes to die in the cold and so I had my phone out and it was cold and my hands were frozen and I have MS and I took my phone out while she was screaming and shaking my arm and I attempted to Google how long does it take to die in the cold and um when you Dred that search that was at the defendant's request on scene sometime after 6: a on that day correct yes you recall U whether or not that came up as far as as your search in Google you type once or more than once if you I believe I did it multiple times because as I was typing it I don't know what else was coming up she was screaming my hands were shaking and do you recall anything as far as what the search results were or did you click on anything or did you get an answer to the question the defend posed to you I don't even think I got an answer because as I kept Googling and she kept yelling and then they were moving John and the next thing I knew we were kind of moving because she wanted to see if they were working on him so you were moving along with the defendant over towards where Mr o' had gone to the back of the ambulance yes we kind of just moved to see what was going on when you moved over what did you see that they were just um putting him in the back of the ambulance now after Mr O'Keefe was put into the back of the ambulance um where did you go then at that point different police officers I believe were arriving and they were asking questions about what happened and did you speak to those officers I did yes and at that point did you know what happened no I to be honest it was like I was there but everything was just going on and I was I was completely just in a State of Shock and disbelief and that sort of period there how long did that go on um so I talked to a few officers we tried to just give them you know she he didn't come home we went out looking for him kind of just the brief overview and then one of the police officers asked me to go into the house and to wake up my sister and my brother-in-law and at some point while you were outside uh did you try to cont your sister and your brother-in-law I believe I called my sister Nicole and when was that in relation to everything as far as medically that was going on with Mr O'Keefe and and all I think I might have called her right after I got off with 911 possibly and then you know she didn't answer and that's when I was walking over I believe to John and she didn't answer the call when you called her initially no and you recall calling either your sister Nicole or your brother-in-law Brian Albert um prior to going into the house I don't recall I know I did call Nicole at one point I'm not sure if I called Brian or not regardless of if you called or you didn't call you recall having any sort of phone conversation with either Nicole or Brian Albert before you went in the house now so you at least called your sister in she didn't answer and then one of the officers directed you to wake them up yes and when you went up to the house at 34 Fairview did you how did you get in the front door and uh front door was unlocked yes is that typical from your experience of at that residence yes and uh so you went to the house and where did you go I went up the stairs to their bedroom and bedroom door door when you arrived there was it open or closed or something closed and you opened it yes and when you opened it if anyone did you see in the room and what were they doing I saw my sister and Brian and they were both asleep and um you familiar with a a dog that they have yes what was the dog's name Chloe was Chloe in the bedroom as well at that time I don't recall you come in they're both sleeping and what happened then I go over to the bed and I'm calling out their names and how long were you calling out their names before you got any kind of response Brian responded first and he was very you know startled and looked at me like what is going on um Nicole took a little and you know I think it took Nicole a little bit longer than Brian to wake up and what is it that you're telling them as you're coming into coming into the room and they're waking I'm telling them that um we just found John out front and I could have possibly said John John has died we just found John out front they were very confused at one point I think Brian was like who's John I mean they were they just woken up and they had no idea what I was talking about now as far as when you're they first waking up and your explaining to them how would you describe sort of their their demeanor as you're talking um they were both shocked I think I think they thought you know like why not what you think okay what I'm asking m is just sort of When You observe them how would you describe U your physical observations of of what they look like their demeanor in that respect shocked confused not understanding strike strike the last now as far as this conversation that you're having uh with your sister and your brother-in-law in their bed um how long was that going on for a few minutes at least and then following that where did you go they got up uh got dressed and then we walked down the stairs and when you got to the bottom of the stairs what if anything did you see when you got um there was a police officer at the bottom of the stairs and do you know who that police officer is um yes officer Len at that time did you know who that police officer was I did yes how did you know um he's from Canton he was um I don't know five years older than me I knew him kind of growing up who he was and met him through the years you're aware of who he was yes and were there any other officers with him initially no now before you go into the house do you know know where Miss Roberts and the defendant were or what they were doing when you went to the hpal um I believe they put Karen in a car and I only only if you know only you okay if you know do you know Karen was in a car Carrie was walking all around now as far as um the ambulance with Mr o'keef at the time that you go into the house was that any still there I'm not 100% sure but I believe it had left and when you come downstairs with your sister and your brother-in-law and the officer is there have a conversation is that correct yes where did that first conversation occurred in the hallway and then into the kitchen and from there mentioned that there was officer lank at one point were there any other officers uh that joined that conversation at some point hours later yes and so during that initial conversation you're talking to the officer who if anyone else not what they said but who if anyone else is speaking to the Brian and Nicole conversation initially with the officer you know about how long that went on I don't a few minutes and following that conversation what did you do or what happened my husband arrived and had you called him yes and when had you called him um I called him when I was walking in the house to wake up my sister and Brian so as you're walking in you call your husband Matt and then he arrives at some point after did after you're done talking to the officer or while you're talking to the officer the officer was still on the house yes and so in that vein as far as when your husband comes in the officer's there correct yes did you see your husband talking to the officer as well yes the officer asked him to step outside or step to the side and they spoke and then what happened then um the officer told me to stay H that told you to stay the officer told me to stay and that um he said that the state police would be coming to talk to me and so you stayed at the house at 34 fair you is that right yes you know where Miss Roberts and the defendant yes Carrie came up and she had told me that she not what she told you next question Mr at some point did you see Miss Roberts and the defendant go yes to pick up John's parents stri as far as they left in Miss Robert's car is that right correct Miss Roberts was again driving correct and at some point Did You observe them come back to the house yes and about how long was it between the time they left and the time they came back to the house 5 minutes approximately and after they came back to the house what if any other activity did you see outside as far as first resp I I was in the house so I didn't see um Miss Roberts pull back up so you were in the house for most of the rest of the time that you were there is that correct correct how long were you there that morning um waiting for the state to I believe I left approxim approximately 11 11:30 during the time that you were there you're there your sister Nicole Albert's there your brother-in-law Brian Albert's there and your husband Matthew mcc's there correct correct and was there anybody else uh that arrived at some point over the course of the morning while you were there at the house yes and who was at and if you know about what time was it that they that they arrived Julie Albert now with reference to when Julie Albert arrived um did at some point around that time did you have occasion to look out and see sort of what was going on outside no were you aware whether or not there were any police or or anything that was still there at the time that Miss Julie Albert arve there wasn't and um she comes in the house and at some point I'm assuming she's informed of of what had transpired there before her arrival right yeah yes and when she's informed of that what if anything did You observe about her demeanor or how she react shocked now in addition to Julie Albert who if anyone else was was at the house that morning while you were um officer lank and Gallagher were there and prior oh Brian Higgins was also came that morning and you know how Brian Higgins came to know or or how Brian Higgins came to be there that morning did you know I don't know now you mentioned that officer L came back to the house is that right yes that was after some period of time when he had left yes he came back with another officer named Gallagher is that right yes and why did they come back to the house with because I called officer lank and did you have his number or how did you get his number if you didn't Julie Albert gave it to me and so you called officer Lance he then comes back to the house on Fair of you is that right yes and when he came back what is it that you why had you asked him to come well as I was sitting there and I was waiting for the State Police to come I was slowly trying to piece together what had just happened in the last couple of hours and he had told me if there's anything that you remember you know once you know if you remember anything please you know give me a call and so there was something that you remembered and you gave him a call yes and when he came back to the house what was it that you told him I told him about the comments and the remarks that um Karen Reed had been stating that morning and specifically what type of remarks are you referring to that you told officer lank when he came back to I said that she told uh one of the EMTs that she hit him now at some point you indicated that you left the house at on Fairview is that right yes and with your husband I presume yes and where did the two of you go we went home and your children were still there without either you or your husband there is that correct yes and uh once you arrive back home what is it that you didn't adop we went in the house and um officer Proctor was coming over to speak with us and that officer Proctor is that someone that you knew previously or had ever met before I had never met officer Proctor and did he come alone or was he with someone else he had another um officer with him you know who that officer is um yes Yuri buenik and have you ever met U Yuri buenik no when you get home um about how long was it a Time from when you arrived home with your husband to the time that the the officers from the state police came by it was pretty quick now in addition to the officers from the state police did anybody else come over to your house uh on that day late morning early afternoon yes my brother-in-law Brian and uh do you know why he came over that yes he came um over I had asked him um he's like a big brother to me and I was all shaken up and nervous and overwhelmed and so I wanted his support and he obliged and he came over correct yes now at some point after the officers from the state police came over you spoke to them is that correct yes and do you recall where in your home you spoke to them in my dining room now when you spoke to him was it both of the the officers that were present yes and was there anybody else present in the dining room when you were talking to no And as far as your husband or your brother-in-law Brian you know where in the house they were when you were in the dining room yes they were in my bedroom and at some point later on that day those same officers uh talked to both your husband and your brother-in-law Brian out yes and during each of those respective conversations or interviews do you know where you were in the house when those were going on in my bedroom and when you were in your bedroom could you hear anything that they were saying downstairs in the D no let me have a moment your arm yes I approach on yes I'm showing you two separate pages just as to look each them and okay do you recognize uh each of those uh documents and what the what the content is yes and those are essentially one is contains text messages that morning in the 29th between yourself and Miss Reed correct yes and the other one is sort of the list of phone calls uh between yourself and Miss Reed from that morning is one yes now um before I get into those as far as after you had gone inside the house and Miss Reed had got into Miss Roberts's car um what if any other communication or what if any other what if any other communication did you have with with Miss Reed that morning um I texted her asking for Carrie's phone number because I didn't have it and I also had a phone conversation with Karen when she was in the ambulance and that text communication that I placed before you essentially has one bubble on it and that's you asking for Carrie Roberts's number correct and uh the phone conversation that you had uh with the defendant what when was that and and you know where the defendant was at the time that you spoke yes she was in an ambulance and uh if you could describe to the jury sort of what generally speaking what was the what was the content of that conversation what what did the two you talk about she just was repeating um asking if he was dead is he dead um she brought up the kids and then she also asked if I would visit her and how did you respond I said yes now following that phone conversation um did you have any further communication in any form that you can recall with with the defendant no may approach yes it seek to introduce and AD each of those as the next two exhibits is there an objection Mr Jackson no objection doesn't matter whichever first please just a couple more questions ma'am now you had asked um the defendant Miss Reed for Miss Roberts's information because you didn't Happ it correct correct at some point um did you receive that information from the defendant no and did you receive that information from any other source I must have but I don't recall how and as far as asking for Miss Roberts's information why were you asking she was on the way um to pick up John's parents and to bring them to the hospital and I wanted to check in on them and then um further updates from um Carrie about jonath and how he was you wanted to know how your was doing yes no further questions four minutes of four I think we're wa tillo morning I don't think I can get it done in four minutes all right Jers um I'm going to oh we're not in session on Monday so you'll come back Tuesday morning so Tuesday will be a half a day uh someday next week I might ask you to think about maybe revising some of these Tuesday Thursdays to longer days but I'll give you plenty of notice of that I need to make sure that we I'm just asking you to think about it all right so please those same cautions do not discuss this case with anyone don't do any independent research or investigation into this case if you happen to see hear or read anything about this case please disregard and leave everything here literally figuratively clear your heads and we'll see you fresh Tuesday morning see all right so I'll see council at cbar about scheduling e for e e e e e all rise to the court please goodbye for