Hi, I'm Ned Fulmer. Three years ago, I cheated on my wife with my producer. It became a massive public scandal that caused a lot of pain to a lot of people. I know that I represented myself as a kind of wife guy who talked about his relationship and put that out there for public consumption. And you as a viewer, I I know that you you I I broke your trust. Um, I I betrayed my spouse, uh, co-workers, friends, family, and and I betrayed you. Um, and I know it's not just about cheating, but I was a company owner and having a relationship with a producer who's engaged and friends with all of our friends and co-workers. Um, like I I it it was understandably a messy and devastating situation for everyone involved. Um, and I was the cause of it. I did that. And I can't change it. I can't change the past. I can own it and accept it and try to change how I show up differently in the future. Um, so I wanted to say that I'm sorry. I hurt you and I hope to make amends um over time. And one step is to uh publicly witness uh the pain of my partner Ariel. Um, this is a conversation with Ariel in this video. Um, it's it's painful at times. It's honest, vulnerable, um, brutal. Um, but it's necessary for her to move forward. And I'm grateful for the chance to, uh, witness it. Um, as as disappointed as we were that something so private and painful became such a public spectacle, I get why people were so outraged. And I I understand that that is the reason that she can't move forward with any sort of public thing without addressing this. Uh so this is that this is um a conversation where we answer your questions. We share what we've been up to these last 3 years and what you can expect from us moving forward. Um, it's about an hour long and I uh I know that for my perspective I want to tell stories of curiosity and empathy and I I want uh them to be meaningful and have value in people's lives. So I hope that you find this impactful. Please join me for this conversation with Ariel Ful former. Well, here we are. Back again. Happened again. It feels feels weird. Feels a little awkward. Yeah. Back in a podcasting room. Yeah. I mean, we've certainly had a lot of conversations where we've sat like this. Yeah, that's true. But not, you know, conversations that are meant for the public. Mhm. Is it strange to think that people are watching this and listening to it rather than just being in like a therapy setting? Oh, heck yeah. It's I mean, it's it's uh it's terrifying. Yeah. It's absolutely Yeah. I mean, I'm like I'm on the verge of like standing up and walking out of this room. Absolutely. Same. I'm like, what the hell am I doing? What am I doing? But no, I this is I feel like this is a I feel like this is a necessary thing. Yeah, we've kind of been just keeping our lives very private for the last three years and just almost hiding from the world. We have been hiding. We've been hiding from the world. And I'm not going to lie, it's been kind of great. It's been kind of great to be to be super private. And it's ironic because we don't stop becoming recognizable figures, people still come up to us, people still recognize us, and to the extent that we're kind of moving forward in our lives, that's something that you've talked about. It's like, how can you how can I move forward in my life without people knowing the next part of my story if they're still stuck on the the 2022 part of my story? That's kind of that's kind of the thing, isn't it? Um is and that's the whole reason that we're here because we're stuck in 2022. Yeah. At least as far as they know. Exactly. We We have moved on with our lives. Yeah. We've moved on for a while now. We have moved on with our lives. Um but but I felt like as far as everybody else is concerned, we're still stuck in 2022. Yeah. And you know that brings us to the whole reason that we're here and the reason that we can't walk out of this room because we live in a social world, right? and and we can't we can't move on with our lives if we don't, you know, move on publicly. Mhm. Um like publicly reestablish the context of who we are, how we relate to each other after being so public with our relationship before. Yeah. I mean, it's a really strange thing actually, like that we can't do anything publicly without kind of addressing this first. Well, yeah. I mean, in in 2022, it sort of it got so big, right? the whole scandal, it just it it it grew and grew and grew and grew um to the point where it it it just became this this thing that that just like got so much bigger than us. Yeah. Um and I feel like I just sort of I just sort of hid away from it, you know? Same. uh and going going completely dark was the only thing that I could think to do. And for the last 3 years, I've just hidden behind the scandal, you know. Um and and now like now I can't get out from behind it. Yeah. Cuz it's a big step to like sit down and do what we're doing and to talk about it, right? But but but even like going out in public with with like my kids or or just going out to dinner or something like that, I feel like the only thing that people see is the scandal. Yeah. Um that's it's a big loss. It's it's a big loss, but it's also it's also it's a really strange way to go about your your normal life, you know, like I am a human who who has needs. Like I I want to have regular friends and I don't want to to like walk up to somebody that I want to be friends with at like preschool and and have to start every conversation with like my personal life is a dumpster fire as I'm sure you know, but also do you want to be friends with me? you know, like I'm not going to lie, I I have I I have some some really authentic friendships that have started that way, but like I don't want to go about my life starting friends like starting friendships like that. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of want the new friends to to know the context of like who you currently are as Yes. Exactly. Exactly. I remember I' have met some people like made new friends or or kind of introduced myself to strangers. It's like, "Oh, let's like exchange Instagrams." I'm like, "Well, right, here's mine." But couple of caveats. One, I have a lot more followers than you might expect. Two, um, all of this is pretty outdated. And three, don't Google me. Don't Google me. Don't Google me. You probably don't want to get to know me first. Yeah. You know, you really you don't want to be just sort of seen as the the sum of your mistakes for me and or the sum of your past for you, right? And the challenging thing is it's it's it's been complicated for a while. I mean, we're we are still friends. We have children together. We go on trips together, right? Like, you know, there's a spectrum of being together, not together, right? Like there's a there's ways in which we're together, but it's like the way that everyone wants to know like, are you guys still like an item? Are you guys still a couple? Like, no. We really haven't been at all this last 3 years. No, we haven't. Um, like there's moments when we kind of tried, but just cuz you go to a Taylor Swift concert together doesn't mean that you're, you know, all for No. Like people ask me like, "Do you forgive Ned for what he did?" And I mean, the answer is no. Absolutely not. How can you forgive somebody for like for lying to you, for for cheating on you? No. [ __ ] no. I that like I I I don't even I it it's I you know I I sorry I saw red for a minute. It's like no. The answer is no. But but also I feel like forgiveness isn't isn't the goal at this point. You know, I I we've been together for a long time. And and you are the father of my two beautiful children and we we know each other really well. And I I, you know, we've we've worked through a lot of stuff and the fact that I can that I can be around you and still like have a good time and like enjoy enjoy spending time with you and enjoy spending time with my kids. Like I think that's a win. Yeah. It It's taken a lot of hard work to to do that. Yeah. It's kind of as we've uh adjusted, we've recalibrated our relationship more towards a platonic friendship. And then, you know, it just been challenging. Um, but like I think we're getting to a point of sort of celebrating that and really like embracing it and accepting it for what it is as we are like grieving the past. And you know, it's hard to hear you saying like, "Fuck no, I don't forgive you." But I of course I get it. I mean, I can You're still as as much progress as we've had, you're still very angry. Yeah, of course I'm angry. You know, we're talking about like not having sat in this position for for three years, you know, and like, yeah, of course I'm still angry. We lost a lot there. There was a lot that happened 3 years ago. Um, it was I mean I found out about your affair from the fans. I mean, and I was so blindsided that somebody sent me a picture and I I like I couldn't it was like it was like my brain couldn't compute and I I I I it's like for some reason I didn't I didn't see what was actually there in the picture. I thought it was your sister. And I remember sending it to you and being like, "What's your sister doing in New York?" It was. And I think back on that and I think like what was I like, how did I not see what was going on? Like what what what was so [ __ ] up in my brain that I couldn't actually see what was happening in this picture? like the picture was right there in front of me, you know? And then and then the pieces just started just started falling and falling and falling and like and and then more pictures started coming in and more pictures and more pictures and more pictures and it's it is so wild how we like we live in this world where everything is so public like You don't realize it, but like but everybody's taking pictures of you everywhere you go. And it's kind of scary actually. And and it makes you realize that whenever you leave your house, you're like, you're not safe, you know? And um and it kind of like and then after everything happened, I I sort of went into this like this weird state where like nothing was safe and nothing like nothing and nobody like I I I couldn't trust anybody. I couldn't trust the public. I couldn't trust you. I I couldn't trust my friends. I like I just I just stayed inside like because there were cameras everywhere, you know? It was like um Oh, it was so it was so unsafe. Everything was unsafe. Um, yeah, it took a long time to to like get back to myself. How did having it become such a public scandal kind of change everything for you? Did it make it worse? Did it make it easier? Did it just sort of make it surreal? It was so many different things. it uh and it was all tied in together too, you know. Um, I think that and and it all it's like the the trauma of of discovering that you've been that like everything that you know is isn't real. Um, and then add to it this other part where you're sort of being you're being um you're you're being watched by cameras, which isn't something that's like a part of our lives. Like yes, we are somewhat public figures, but like we've never had cameras waiting outside of our house. like that is not that's not something that we're used to. Um uh like we're not like celebrities. That's not that's not a part of our lives. Um and and this this was a a period in our lives where we had like there was like a a car following us and um it was it was really strange cuz we had because we um had had just you know found out that that that we were um dealing with this um you know with this with this cheating situation um with this betrayal. um we decided to find a new um couple's therapist. Right. Right. And so and so we were driving to our new couple's therapist and and and so we were in the car together because we decided to drive together and you you decided you needed a snack and so you had like a you had a Tupperware with you and I had my my jug of water and we got in the car together because we were like, "Well, why don't we drive together? we're going to the same place. And so we get in the car and we were driving there and um so you're like eating your apple as you're driving and and I I and I turned to you and I was like, "Ned, I think there's I think there's a car following us. Like I'm pretty sure that there's this I'm pretty sure this car has followed us from our house." And you were like, "Oh, that's weird." Like I wonder what that could be, you know? Um, and then when we park outside of the couple's therapist's office, um, and we see that that that this car has a camera, it was like, I think that that person just took a picture of us. And so we went inside and and we talked about it a little bit and then we had our therapy session and then we came out and then there were multiple people outside and it was the probably one of the strangest situations that I personally have ever been in. I did not know what to do with my face and and so and so my my reaction when I don't know what to do with my face is I smile. Yeah, that is that is the that is my go-to reaction when I don't know what to do with my face. I just smile like an idiot. That was my reaction to that. I smile like like I, you know, like a cat, you know? I just smile. And so like this is the video that everyone this is the video that everyone saw and like leaving couples therapy. We're leaving couples therapy looking at each other like we don't have a care in the world. And it is because we are absolutely just beyond like this is so bizarre. What is happening right now? This has never happened in our lives ever. We don't know what's going on. like, "Let's just get to our car, you know, and we're just like, just smile. Just smile. Like, like they're not going to hurt us. Who are these people? Everything's fine." Um, oh my goodness. Yeah, it was that was the strangest situation. It was so bizarre. I remember our our neighbors during that time were doing some roof repair work and so there was this like marked white van outside of our house and it was parked there for like weeks and we had it in our heads there was a paparazzi van and it absolutely was not but it was like the strangest thing I thought it just you know for weeks anytime you walk out the door being like there's a van. Yeah, that was really that was really strange. I can see how that caused you to really feel unsafe and mistrusting of the whole world. Um, just want to acknowledge that and well note that it's like because of things I did that caused you to experience that. Yeah. What what was that moment like when everything changed for you? I awful obviously. Um it was kind of surreal, you know. I thought to myself like what would somebody who's been cheated on? Like what what would somebody in a movie do? Really? I I don't know. I wasn't thinking like of a specific movie or something like that. I was thinking like what what would like like what do people do in this situation, you know, like [Music] um I wasn't thinking of of I wasn't thinking for myself. I was thinking like like what do I do next? Um, I remember we were in New York. Um, and you were just picking me up from the airport. Um, and I was I so like naively So you were you were driving a rental and and I so and I just naively looked over to you in the driver's seat and I was like, "Why was Grace in in New York? Like I didn't realize Grace was in New York. Why was she, you know, referring to that picture that I had sent to you and you looked over at me with this look on your face and and it was like the veil just fell like like this, you know, like I knew in my brain that that something was going on, but I just sort of refused to believe it. And and then when I saw that like just wildly guilty look on your face like you want like you wanted to tell me something. Um and I didn't even let you say anything. I and I was like turn this car around. You don't remember that? No, I don't remember it happening like that but it doesn't matter. How do you remember it happening? Oh, I mean, you asked me a couple of different follow-up questions as I just sort of answered them. And then, um, you know, once you really once I, you know, answered it in such a way that you knew exactly who it was and what had happened. Yeah. Then you were like, "Take me back to the airport." Mhm. Yeah, that part was very cinematic. If you were trying to be like in a movie. Turn this [ __ ] car around. Um, I mean, yeah, I it I think there was a lot of sort of delusions and rationalizations that you as the person doing that sort of are telling yourself as to why why it's not so bad or why it's going to be okay or I actually this talked about it in this way and then it's like I remember that moment it all just kind of like fell down where I to could see how devastated and just completely traumatized you were and then it was just like all everything changed for me as well. I'm like oh no I this is like I I've been I've been hurting this person that I love this whole time. You didn't realize until then? Well, you know, but then there's other things you tell yourself to kind of sort of compartmentalize or I guess [Music] interesting. It's sort of a, you know, it's like a like a addictive cycle kind of feeling really guilty and ashamed and then telling yourself the ways in which it's, you know, kind of just lying to yourself and then Yeah. [Music] And and I did want to tell you and there was probably a small part of me that was sort of relieved to not be keeping a secret, I guess. Is that hard for you to hear? No. No, that part's not hard for me to hear. I think it's, you know, I've done a lot I I've spoken a lot with um other betrayed partnersh uh over the last three years and it's it's something that I've heard a lot uh this idea of like When there's this sense of relief when the partner who's doing the betraying um is able to finally tell uh the betrayed partner that about all the things that they have been doing um and kind of put their shame onto their other partner. M um they in that like sort of release of their um of their like of all of that all of that like yeah shame and guilt and guilt that they've been holding. Um it's almost like they feel so much relief but the partner then has to accept it. And that's exactly what happened. You know when when you told me suddenly then I had to take all of that guilt and shame of of your affair and And it was so much to carry. so much like and I know that like and you know suddenly something that like you had that and it like the the wild thing is that this was something that you had done. Mhm. You know, like I I had no part in this. This was not like you could even say that you had done this to me, you know, like I Yeah. I was the victim of this situation. And yet when you told me, I had to like accept your your guilt and your shame and and in our like society where where couples are, especially married couples, like when men have affairs Women are often looked at as like, well, what did you do wrong? And it is, it is so hard to get out from under that of like, well, what did you do to make to make him look elsewhere, you know? Were you not a good enough wife? Were you not did did you not make him happy enough, you know? And there's so so much shame there. And I just I'm so I'm so tired of holding that. I'm so tired of holding it. How does it make you feel to hear that? Um, I mean, did did it ever occur to you that like that like not only did you not only did you having an affair just it it shattered our marriage, but it also like all of that guilt and shame. you like hoisted that on me like you gave that to me and now I have to carry that around for the rest of my life. I don't think it's fair that as a society you're put in that position. It's certainly not true. Um, and no, it's not something that I imagined as I was doing that. I think none of it was. If it if you really like let it sink in just how much you're hurting your partner and how devastating it is, like how could you do that? It's still very difficult now even 3 years later to see you in pain as you're talking about that. I guess there's nothing I can do to change the past or to or to help. It's It's kind of weird to think about it now because I'm I I feel like I'm in a really good place now and and going back to like before before I discovered the affair. It feels like going back to this this weird fantasy world where like I don't know. I thought we had this this love that like transcended I don't know but it was a fantasy. It was it was like, you know, I I just I trusted you so completely. And I mean, we we grew up together. We we got married when when we were like in our early 20s. Yeah. We were we were babies. We had nothing. I mean, we we moved out to LA with just our car full of stuff. I mean, I'm like tearing up just thinking about it. We were we were just kids and it's like It really was a fantasy. And I think I just think how could you do that to me? Like who are you? I'm so sorry. I like We had so much There was so There was so much. We had so much life left. We still have so much life left. I don't know why. I don't know why I'm crying. Um, I think it's like the the loss of that dream that we both had. It felt like that in that time period for me too. What happened? Well, it the dream started to break apart for me and then rather than being able to talk about it or to confront those feelings, I I I wanted to I guess I was too afraid to say how I was actually feeling and it seemed I don't know. I chose to deal with it in a deal with like feelings I was experiencing in a way that was really self-destructive and hurtful to you. Mhm. And it wasn't like anything you did or like we had a bad marriage. I it was it it was about me and choices that I made and just actions that I took that I'll always regret. I'll always regret how much pain I caused you and and other people, you know. And I'm I'm I'm deeply deeply sorry and I'll spend my whole rest of my life trying to make amends to you and to, you know, show up differently to lead a life of integrity and to be a father that our children can learn from um cuz you did nothing to deserve this and I completely suddenly violently shattered our marriage, our relationship and like everything you knew and and it was all my fault. It was all all choices that I made. Um, so where do we go from here? I mean, that's kind of where how we've how we've been what we've been working on, I guess, over the last three years. we can make new promises to each other as as friends as co-parents. Um, what was the thing that kind of started changing things for you? Maybe just time. Time and I don't know, courage. And I, you know, I mentioned making those authentic relationships, like finding those those real friends. Oh. And they're like, I don't care that your life is messy. I I really like you for who you are. I see your joy. I like every part of you. Yeah. And I I want to be a part of your life. Like, don't don't push me away, you know? Um Yeah. It was a real moment of kind of discovering who your real true authentic friends are and Yeah. kind of then cherishing that and you know those people that you can kind of be completely yourself with. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. They're not just seeing a one-dimensional version of you. Yeah. Totally. When did things start to feel a little more safe for you? I think I think as I just got more comfortable talking to people about about like what happened and and they just seemed to not care. Yeah. you know, like it just wasn't a big deal. Is it is kind of funny. It's like the whole, you know, internet and people making Tik Tok seem to care so much and then you meet anyone in real life and it's like everyone has some way to relate to some sort of a cheating story. Just like all the parents at at Wes's school or, you know, they're like either they don't know or they don't give a flying [ __ ] They're like, "Yeah, who cares?" You know, they're like, "It's one of many scandals." Like, also, it was 3 years ago. Like, get over yourself. Yeah. Like like that's kind of how I feel. They're like, they're sort of like, right? Because when when you're in that school environment, like there's a bunch of different types of families and parents and some people are together, some people aren't. And I'm sure every marriage or relationship has a story as to how it breaks down. Like I it just gives you so much perspective. It gives you so much perspective to just be in a group of people where nobody cares. Yeah. you know, and it just it gives you honestly I think it that is what gives me the courage to just to just be like, you know what it's okay, right? I I I'm going to I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. It it like I I can I can live in a world where this has happened and and people know and and also we've moved on, you know, right? like I can I can go on dates and not have people be whispering about me. Um I don't know. I I just imagine a world where I can just be myself and not have this thing following me around, you know, where I don't have to where I don't have to like where maybe we are at a restaurant with our kids and I don't have to feel shame because I'm I'm like, you know, having fun, right? You know, where people are like, "Oh my god, are they back together?" Just because I'm like having a joyful time with with my kids and and and my ex-husband, you know, like, is that a crime? Yeah. To feel joy. Like, can I live? Can I live? You know, let them let them. Let them. Let them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're going to Greece together next week, right? It's like life is weird sometimes. Like we Yes. Like we we we we travel together. It's we we have a a we have an a like a a familial relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's we we've like redefined our relationship not as partners that romantic partners, those sort of like you know family or platonic partners and pals if you want to say pals. I I feel the same way that it was kind of the social communities in school or wherever you are that you kind of just start to feel less alone. Yeah. or you know somebody that's your friend or like a another couple that you're friends with just can will say like you know I like it was shitty what you did and also everyone goes through hard times and you move forward the best you can and whether you are together or not or sort of together friendly but not romantically like however You want to live your life as your family moving forward. That's like your business, right? Yeah. And at the same time, people looking on the outside can kind of feel that nonchalance and on the inside it's like what I did to you is one of the most devastating things I think that a person can experience. Like I kind of I I I understand why broadly speaking these like scandals are such you know ignition points because it's a lot of people can relate to it and a lot of people feel so much so much pain around it and it can be both. It can be both. Yeah. And And it can be both at at the same time. It can be both at different times. And you know, it can it can be one thing one day and something different another day. You know, I I have some days when I hate your guts and you know, and there are other days when I I enjoy your company more than not. And that's okay. It can be both. It can be both. You know, some days are really sad because I feel the loss. But other days I feel a lot of gratitude and joy for where we're at now. Especially I mean our kids are awesome. Yeah, they are. And I mean, they're they're worth every every cent we've spent on therapy. Like Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I mean, we're that's like a big reason why we're working so hard to rebuild. Mhm. I don't even know if I call it if I would call it rebuilding. I I think we're building something new. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think you have to view it like that. The past is no longer. Oh, burn that burn that [ __ ] to the ground. I'm kidding. My wife. [Music] Yes. It's very strange living and having a marriage while also having that be so like public facing. Did you ever feel that that there was these like layers of like the public facing you versus the real you? Um. Yes. And that was that was always um a struggle for me because I felt like I wanted to like I wanted the two to be the same, you know. I I I always wanted to be one whole person. Um and and I didn't want to be like an actor. on camera and and like a and then another person in my real life, you know. And that's that's the funny thing about like being a YouTuber or or being an influencer is people expect you to be one person. Mhm. um in your real life and on the internet. And then when when you're not then then it's like well you're lying, you know, but I don't know. What do you think? Well, it's ironic because at the same time I think the what the internet wants from you is to be a one-dimensional character. H how so? Well, you know, if you there I think uh you know there's if you're if you make Tik Toks as like a certain persona or doing a certain joke, if you deviate from that joke, often times your like engagement will plummet. Like people kind of want to like just see it's like, oh, this is it's like you're a stereotype. You're kind of like that person and then you and I I guess I I noticed that in my own work. It's like the things that consistently drew people in were adorable family posts or talking about my wife and then producers lean into that and like craft situations for me and I don't know over time it felt super pigeonhold and just like I had to fulfill this one like quadrant in a foresome to just be this like you know kind of uh karaia a catcher. You were like put in a box. I Yeah, I think I think it's it's very hard to like be a full person with nuance on the internet. There's always sort of a performance layer. So, what are you going to do now that you're back on the internet? It's a great question. I for a long time didn't want to return to the internet cuz I didn't see a way of I didn't want to be myself. I didn't want to make anything. I didn't feel creative. Um, and as I've as time has moved on, I have a desire to create and to tell stories, but I don't really want it to be about myself as a character or myself or my relationship or my personal life. You know, I've always been drawn to things that make people curious and um finding ways of connecting people with their interests. And um so I came up with a I don't know, I see myself more as like a host and more as just a vehicle for other people's stories. And I don't know, maybe I can because of what I've gone through and my past like connect with people and empathize with people. What? Yeah. I don't know. You think you're You think you're interesting enough? No, I don't. You think other people I think other people would be interesting. And then that's regardless of whether I think I'm I don't want to talk about my personal life or my like I want to keep our children out of the spotlight. I keep our dating lives private. Like I it's it's it's not a good idea to for my mental health at least, but I think also in general to sort of make your whole life your brand. I want to make stuff that helps people learn things, make stuff that helps people like empathize with others. And you know, the the idea behind the podcast is to tell stories of other people's challenging times and how they overcame them. Hm. Because of the There's one thing I noticed is that people really seem to care about our the train wreck that I caused. Would you say that that was your rock bottom? Have you hit your rock bottom or do you think I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I would say my rock bottom was it's [Music] it's funny in the in the car there was still a part of me that thought you know maybe you know cuz we been doing therapy like we kind of had talked about a variety of things and my rock bottom was Uh, you know, being in a I think the moment for me is you you like sent me a text that night that was like, I I don't think we can get past this. And it's just sort of like my whole world crashed. And I was like, oh, right. what I did wasn't like in our boundaries or in any sort of um like what what I did was unforgivable and there's no hope and I don't think I slept that night. I remember writing you a long letter and It was ironic. I that weekend I was at a wedding and they like played our wedding song as their dance. It was like black tie. Everyone's very fancy. That's just like stepping away to cry every 20 minutes. Well, we only have a couple more minutes. I know we could keep on talking. Maybe we will. But um are there any last minute questions we need to address before are we together? We are not together. Uh we live separately. Um we are devoted co-parents to our two beautiful, beautiful children. Uh Wes who is seven and Finn who is almost five. Are we dating other people? Um, I mean, I'm open to dating other people. I mean, yes. Yes, we we are dating other people. Um, yeah. Will you ever be returning to some of your past work? What kind of work? Like your old podcast? Um, no. No, I don't think so. Um, no, I'm I'm grateful for my time there, but uh no, I think I think that that era is over. So, what's next for you? I know that you know you're creative person that you've been doing a bunch throughout your career and it's kind of like it must be exciting to kind of be like a solo artist now. Yeah. I mean, these last three years have given me a lot of time to like kind of express what what I love. And I've gone back to pottery, which is something that um I was really into in college. Um, it started out as just something that I wanted to do. Um, just to like I don't know, kind of center myself uh as like a hobby. Um, but I've I've gotten really into it and I'm I've been spending a lot of time in my own studio and I'm starting up my own business. I know. I know. Um, yeah. And um we'll see where it takes me. Yeah. Do you think you're gonna be like a public per like do you want to continue being an influencer? Probably not. Probably not. I for a couple of reasons. I, you know, I I um I mean, the first reason is that I really enjoy just making stuff, just making stuff in my studio by myself, you know? I I know that that like that that sounds so silly, you know, but I love just just going into my pottery studio and and just sitting at my wheel and getting so dirty and and not filming it and just doing what I want to do and making mistakes and [Music] and and just making sometimes making really shitty stuff and not having to tell anyone about it, you know. Um, and the second reason is that I feel like sometimes, and we don't have to put this part in, but it is a valid reason. I feel like sometimes people who are on the internet there there is a there is a a another standard of beauty for people who are on the internet and I don't want to hold myself to that standard anymore. Um I want I'm I'm going to be 40 this year and I want to I want to look at myself in the mirror and I want to say [ __ ] yeah. I don't want to look at myself in the mirror and be like, "Oh my god." Um, are people gonna notice that I don't look like I'm 30 anymore? You know, are people going to think that that I look old? Are people going to think that my, you know, that that this is bad or this is bad or this is bad? I love looking in the mirror and being like, you know what, I look great. You know, like good enough is good enough. It's a refreshing place to be. It's so great. It's so great to be like, I look awesome, you know? Yeah. I I don't want to look in the mirror and be like, I don't look good enough. I don't love that place. And and I I I think that that being a public person that that you sort of have to look at yourself that way. Um or at least that was my that was my experience and and I choose not to do that. Yeah, that's awesome. Mhm. Yeah. For for me, I also like love creating. And instead of making pottery, I like making media. So there is this sort of inherent like if I'm going to be in it, yeah, you have to kind of think about what you're saying, what you look like, and yeah, it can be hard, but I'm I'm I'm happy for you. Thanks. Um, what can I do as a co-parent and a friend to continue supporting you and to being I mean what what do you want from me going forward? Uh, just just be authentic. Um, just be authentic with your audience, you know, like what are your hopes and dreams for the future? I just generally want to be the person that I genuinely believe that I am. Um, you know, yeah. Um, I feel like I feel like for a long time I I've I've lived I've I've wanted to be one person, but I've I've lived the life of a person who isn't that person. And I'd like for those two things to be the same. Same. Um yeah. And um what do you hope for the two of us? I I just want each of us to grow in in the way that that makes each of us happy, you know? Mhm. I want you to be who you are and I want me to be who I am. And I want for you to feel like you can be who you are. And I, you know, I want you to to, you know, feel like you can do that without judgment. Um, and I want the same for myself. Yeah, I I feel the same way. I I think that by kind of moving forward more as individuals, we'll each be able to kind of be the best version of ourselves and to kind of discover maybe parts of oursel that are less to the forefront when you're like really in a relationship. Um, but you know, I that's for us as individuals, but for us, you know, as co-parents, I hope that we raise boys of honesty and integrity and are happy and feel loved. And I hope that we're uh a team who tells each other what's on our mind, even if it's not always, you know, hard to say or or easy to hear. That's that's what I hope for us is to have a a parenting partnership based on in laughter in respect and in honesty. Me too. Thank you again to Ariel. Thank you for your honesty, your vulnerability, your directness. Um, this truly meant a lot to me and thank you for watching. Next week, I'm excited to not be the subject of the episode. I'll be having a conversation with Lara Love Harden. She is a mother who overcame a battle with heroin addiction uh and eventually was a Oprah uh book club bestseller. So, it's full of uh insightful and human drama, and you're not going to want to miss it. So, see you next week, and uh take care. [Music]