The information that is being consumed by the 8 billion people outside this room, it is predominantly coming through this. And the thing that is most dominant on this for attention is social networks. And until we swallow that pill that so many of us have not wanted to and understand that the creative that works in there is the work. And especially now, I don't think it's lost on anybody that's close enough to this. The algorithms flipped 3 years ago and now we're completely interested. Organic reach measures relevance. That's insane. we finally can measure creative honestly we can hold creative accountable. I'm sure it is not lost on anyone how much advancements of uh we're seeing in the AI space and I'm sure it's creating a lot of you know anxiety and concern I'm sure for a lot of people in our industry and the truth of the matter is that like it's super real like we can be selferving and selfish and hopeful and delusional grounded in our self-interest about why it's not this or is Is it ethical or that that you know emotionally ideological? But like the reality is like we are going to be making one hour videos for $4 that take 19 minutes and that used to cost $800,000 and 9 months and this has a higher likelihood of working than what we all did. I mean, this is like I feel so interested in that what I've been talking about, which is like, hey, social media is real and like we have to stop putting television or bad reporting or awards on a pedestal. And now I feel like what I was talking about is like minor leagues compared to what I think we're happening, what's about to happen. However, what I would say is what I've been talking about will play out again in this AI forward world, which is if you are not common sense centric, if you you know, we talk about consu this is like I want to talk to everybody in this room like humans, not like we're at a business thing. Like this industry loves to talk about like we're consumer centric and does work and runs media that is the opposite of consumer centric. I know you know that as a human. You may not act on it or even talk about it as an executive or being in the industry, but I know you know it as a human. I know not one human being here has clicked a banner ad in a decade. I know that. Right? And I know that if your life depended on it, your family's well-being depended on it. And I gave you a million pounds or euros to make something sell that you would spend it differently than what we often in this industry recommend and do. So, you know, I think what I'm most passionate about forever, how I got into this industry, is I'm most passionate about where the actual consumer's attention is. You know, it's funny. I I was an academic with my marketing. I got into the industry 15 years ago on the back of doing marketing for my family's wine store and and I could see that things were changing in 2006 78 and saw an opportunity as I've been in marketing in the industry for the last 15 years. I learned all the terminology. I learned the core principles and I've I've smiled along the way because I realize in a lot of ways even though I've talked a lot about disrupting it and things of that nature, my principles are incredibly classic. Like for example, the main reason in hindsight, I couldn't articulate this when I came out the gate because I didn't know the proper terminology, but in hindsight, the main reason I've always loved social media and the distribution of creative on it is it allows you to win on relevance. You know, I I just can make 50. You know, when I look at this, when I look at all of you right now and I'm thinking, I want to sell this PayPal beverage to all of you, it's inconceivable to me that one video can make it happen. I feel like I have to systematically put you into micro groupoups or even individual groups and create words, videos, and pictures that might compel you through relevance to consider drinking it. So, I I think we're living in the golden era of that. I believe that what is very clearly starting to hit the ether of our industry is that social creative is now moving to the forefront. I can tell you cuz I'm in the trenches with all of you like our company the scopes we signed in 2025 in fee for social creative are 10 20x what we were getting the year before. So the speed in which the dollars are going we are as a so uh to take a step back I'm making too many assumptions. Vayner media we are full-fledged media and full-fledged creative in every category social digital and traditional. We have dozens of creative aos in on that side of the equation we have much bigger scopes for the social creative in fee than the above the line creative in fee. And I know all of you are starting to see that because I'm enough in the business world and it happened fast. There are clients where we were the social partner getting 700,000 in fee for the year and the creative AR anomaly droga wine whatever they were getting 4 million and then and in 18 months it flipped and I think we're never going back. I I would tell you all I just think it's all wrapped up now especially because I think it's the AI overlay on top of this. You know I just like anything in life it takes like six things to make the thing happen. This isn't just that though it was happening anyway the industry was starting to get into a social first environment. I think the acceleration of what AI is going to do for creative is going to get it's just getting hard for a Fortune 500 to get excited about spending $1.3 million on making a single 30 secondond video and spending5 to$10 million to amplify that and then do matching luggage and digital and social to support the idea that we guested in a room like this which is based on politics and insecurities and guessing. So I think that's where we're at. I think the craft, you know, it's funny going through this industry. I remember maybe the third or fourth year I was at CAN. It was like 2:00 in the morning at the Carlton and some extremely drunk creative director from a holding company came up to me. He's like, "You know what? I really [ __ ] hate you." I'm like, "All right, here we go." I was like, "Here we go." Um, but I'm like pretty good in that setting because I understand the context. I'm like, "Go ahead." He's like, "You don't care about the work." And it was a really, it's a the reason I'm telling this story 8 10 years later is it's a really important moment in my career. I looked at him like, "Brother, I'm the only one that cares about the work." And it was funny. He sobered up quick and we had this really interesting conversation. I said, "The way our industry considers the work is for ourselves. We're insular." I'm like, you're telling me that the awards that are going to be given today that is all politics and already thought out. You all know like that's the work. I care about someone actually seeing a video or a picture and actually buying something. This is called marketing. This isn't called second rate art. And we need to consume that and be [ __ ] accountable to that. And one of the reasons that over the last decade so much marketing has gone in-house is because we haven't been good enough. That's real [ __ ] talk. And so I'm actually very passionate about this industry. I want agencies to succeed. I spend time with my direct competitors and try to add deposits and help them grow cuz I want it for us. Meaning I don't view that as a negative. we're going to go in and pitch and it's going to be a subjective call. You know what I mean? Like I don't feel like that's hurting Vehner. I think we can all be there, but we as an industry are really need to wake up and like it's the the doors are closing in quick and we just need to be dramatically more consumer centric and the information that is being consumed by the 8 billion people outside this room, it is predominantly coming through this. And the thing that is most dominant on this for attention is social networks. Yes, there's gaming and there's utility apps. And until we swallow that pill that so many of us have not wanted to and understand that the creative that works in there is the work. And especially now, I don't think it's lost on anybody that's close enough to this. The algorithms flipped three years ago and now we're completely interestbased. It organic reach measures relevance. That's insane. We finally can measure creative. Like honestly, we can hold creative accountable. I think that's that's what I really am passionate about and like that's where it's going. And until we have a distribution change, which might be the meta glasses in 6 years, might be something else, but until we have a distribution change, this is it. And I think the people that most understand how to storytell in that environment and understand the best practices. We we at Vayner we call it pack platforms algorithms and culture. I think it's really simple to understand like if you want to sell something in this market in Thailand in Boston in Rio di Janeiro which platforms have the attention and how do they work? How does the algorithm work? So, what what creative units? I I'll give you a real life example. This may help some of you. I hope it does. One second videos on Facebook proper right now are dominant. So, most people will post a picture and you'll post it. If I made a picture right now and posted it on Pepsi's Facebook in Europe and posted it, it would and let's just say whatever the reality of how many followers and the algo if that got 8,000 reached people. If I made the same exact thing, but I made it a one second video instead of a picture, which is a picture, it would get a 100,000 views and it would get 14 more comments, which would give me more consumer insights and then I could do it again. That level of craft, people love to talk about craft in this industry. craft, which for a common sense man like me equals let's spend a lot of [ __ ] money on production. That means nothing to the business. That's how I when I when someone's like you I care about the craft. I'm like you have lost your way. You're in the ether. We're in the mckery of marketing for the sake of marketing not remembering what we all do here for a living. And so my tough love, my push back, my passions, my different take over the last decade has been more about what is happening now, which is this industry doesn't need to exist. Every one of us, very likely, I would go with now, if we're in marketing in 10 years, are working at a brand, not an agency. And we [ __ ] blew it. Thank you. All right, that's like the things on my mind in a macro. I can go anywhere. Influencer marketing, AI, influencers, gaming, live social shopping. I'm obsessed with um let's just do Q&A. Yes. What's your name? I I'm Maddie. Maddie. I'm from Tiffany and Co. Amazing. Um and I'd love to have your take on creator content and and keeping up at speed for luxury brands. Is there anyone that's doing it really well? Um, I have a lot of kind of barriers around brand safety. Yeah. Um, and very much leading on creator content as well at the same time. So, yeah. I mean, I I don't know if it's right. I think here's a couple things. As soon as you said I'm a Tiffany and Co., you know where it's going, right? Like th this industry, Fortune 5,000 companies with marketing and social first new environment in general. I mean, we have some brands that are toilet paper and treat themselves like they're Tiffany's, right? So, you have all those feelings, but then when you're actually one of them, it adds another level of complexity. And now, I'm sure not lost anyone, especially for brands like yourselves, all of a sudden the Instagram grid has become like the TV ad. The emotion, I mean, I'm in meetings with high-end brands where they they're literally treating a single post on Instagram like it's a [ __ ] Super Bowl spot, right? and so have you all like rounds of revisions. It's so against the way that social should work. So I would tell you the I'm going to throw something out here that might help a lot of you. The people that have really cracked this in my opinion in luxury have realized what handle strategy means. Creating another handle at casual Tiffany's and giving the creative team the ability to be a little more casual in that handle. Because as you all know, no longer do we need followers to get reach. So once we switched from needing followers, this whole strategy has opened up for us. It's been huge for us. Please take it, steal it. Here it is. Like I think it will help you because what you're trying to get out of is the politics of the internal team. There's nobody at Tiffany's that is deeply grounded enough in pack to know that the subjective opin here's what actually let me say it this way. This may help you. Here is my full presentation. When we work with an extreme luxury brand, we do the meeting, it gets to this point, we all know what they care about. Like, this is a 150year brand of luxury, Gary. [ __ ] you. Okay, fine. I get it. I then put on the screen, take my phone, airplane in, and I type in Tiffany's on Instagram, search, enter, and I show them 900 posts about Tiffany's in the last 24 hours. And I asked them, are you controlling the brand? Our one [ __ ] post a week to the 900 post like this. This industry is stuck in a book that was written in 1991 called How Brands Grow. If you unpack the process of how people do creative, it is grounded in that. That book was written before the internet. controlling the brand is just a fake ideology. It's, you know, and so we need to win on relevance, which means we need a lot more creative. And like if you want someone who's just become newly found wealthy, who's 29 because they had an big exit of their startup and you want them in, that's a very different [ __ ] picture in video than third generation wealthy gal from the Upper East Side and we need them all to get them in. So I think handle strategy might work. I think having I So here's something again for people. We the I will tell you one of the other things in the last 24 months that's changed our company and we've had a lot of growth is that I've finally put my foot down on something we call elephant meetings. The other thing that has worked for us is we're just telling the [ __ ] truth with no wavering. And and if you believe that there's a different way to do it then you just need to have an elephant meeting and show them the 900 posts in the last day and be like in a world of this what do you want from me? you know. Yeah. But I don't know if anyone's doing it right. I think I think people there's two things that are slightly wrong in this world. They're they're treating social like print. It's really wrong. Um again, even that one second video versus a picture like they're for me. We are trying to maximize on reach cuz it is earned. Here's here's something I talk about internally that might really land for all of you. This is going to make a lot of sense to all of you. For the last 70 years, working media has been disguising bad creative. Today, working media should be used to amplify good creative. We are spending billions of dollars in media at Vayner, which is unusual for a creative shop, right? In when we have the client fully our way, which is obviously 20% of the time, maybe maybe 10, we don't spend a dollar on media on a piece of creative unless it overindex it organically. Not a dollar. We even have clients that are in year two that have taken down their working media budget and put it into creative because that's what actually happens in this. I actually predict that this the split is at the I at the next maybe call it three years from now which I think will be the apex moment of social creative at scale. I believe the mix will be 50/50 creative and media instead of 8020 on a good day. So I think a lot of changes soon. Um I'm a cash. I'm founder of Fable and Main. So it's a hairare brand at Sephora. Yes. And um I wanted to ask because in the beauty industry you're probably seeing a lot of celebrity brands popping out and now when I'm working with the likes of Sephora it's all about following the founder of celebrity. Yes. So as a non celebrity founder brand I'm trying to think about my own founder strategy to grow the business. Yes. Um what tips do you have for like founder brands for the founder social? I mean, there's two ways. I think my number one piece of advice in this scenario is don't be half pregnant, right? So, um I I'm entertaining myself up here. Uh I don't think you need to do what I did. I really don't. I don't think everybody needs to build their personal brand. I think you can and I think it's a massive weapon, but you also have to be self-aware. If you are like deeply like passionate about being the operator and you're and you wake up in the morning and you love supply chain and I mean this I mean like I'm not that many people do but like I like weird stuff like you might like supply chain or or you like being a leader or you you're more COO, right, than personality. I I don't think it's going to work anyway. You can get to a certain place, but I'm sure here we all know like there's things we're naturally talented at and our ceilings high and there's things that we're not as naturally talented at. Now, we may work on it like I've worked on my health and fitness. It's better than it was 10 years ago, but I'm never going to be a [ __ ] Adonis superstar athlete, you know, like we have ceilings. So, I think but if you decide you can do it and you're into it, then you got to go allin. You've got to do a weekly podcast interviewing people from the industry and influencers. You've got to create a format of content that is replicatable for you. Like, you know, um 10 years ago, I knew that this really mattered and I decided to film myself every minute, much to the chagrin of the entire human world and and took a lot of cynicism and people really had things to say, mainly behind my back, but even occasionally to my face. But I knew that I was just working 15 hours a day and I wasn't going to make content. But I knew there was content every second I was living and I knew that I was in control of the post-production. And it really changed everything for me. Um, right now the most famous people in the world emerging to Gen Alpha are IRL streamers fully streaming their life 247. The next level of what I did mine was filmed and then out. This is [ __ ] live live, right? And so, you know, I think you have to find a way. Uh, another way is going on podcasts regardless of the size. One thing I did in 15, 16, and 17 that was confusing to a lot of people and now people that are really deep in personal brand understood, I would go on very small podcasts cuz I won twice. At that point, I already had a little bit of juice. So, I was putting on someone, which is karma is a real currency, my friends. If I if you believe with anything I'm saying here, let me leave you with this. doing good things is wildly ROI positive. So I was at a place where I could pick a podcast that was just starting and said yes and gave up my most valuable asset which is my time but it wasn't completely selfless. Yes, I would be on a show that then would clearly use my name and get their guests and many big podcasts today did that and it feels incredibly amazing. But I also got the 30 minutes of content and I didn't have to do [ __ ] just had to answer questions, right? So, you know, I think finding a format, but I think you could go on a 25 to 50 podcast tour over and over. There's some distribution from that podcast, but the clips that come out can become ammo for you to use on LinkedIn and Instagram and things of that nature. Um, you mentioned about kind of comments and taking the consumer insight for that. just eat post on social and you've got rider issues, cold food, there probably a few people the same thing I've done it before. Um what's your advice for kind of handling those? We can't all be right there and you know abuse people but which is a good strategy right and but I think any advice on on managing that and trying to turn that I'm looking for ideas to try and turn that into a tool and a weapon to manage yeah by the way it's how I started my company the way I built my dad's wine store in the Twitter 2007 era was replying to every person good or bad I think look some of us have business issues that are so massive even if we accept accountability, it's not like we can change out of plastic if that's what they're complaining about tomorrow, right? So, you know, for a business, I think replying to anything that you could be accountable to and owning that within social that's an easy fix or a refund or like something clever, a t-shirt, like however you want to play it. I think you always do that. And then on the things that are like ingrained, you got to really sit and bring those to the boardroom or into your own head and be like, what are we doing about this? But like I will tell you that the consumer insights of a model that we do, which is for most of our clients, we're posting 4, 7, 15 pieces of creative a day in social. The amount I would argue that the consumer insights that come out of that creative is worth the price of admission. In fact, we have been funded in our growth on our creative product from consumer insights P&Ls the second year because we're build bringing actual consumer insights while our clients are paying for like [ __ ] reports from like Forester or something. Um, so I want to hear your insight about B2B influencer. Oo, I'm thank So that's a great one. B uh B2B influencer marketing. Yes. So that's epic. So that's probably the thing that I'm most excited about in my lab that hasn't really hit the ether. Like if I've put out a lot of content, you won't find a lot for me on B2B influencer marketing because the last 6 months I've actually been very deep in it. So a I think LinkedIn is disproportionately the most underrated social network. I I believe if you sell food, beauty products, sneakers, you should be treating LinkedIn the way you treat Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and Tik Tok. There's just so much reach from content. That has always been a thesis of ours. I personally have felt the effects of B2B, you know, influencer life for my business and have been studying it for a lot of SAS businesses and on a lot of boards and investments I've made. I've done founderled and nonfounder-led content in LinkedIn. From an influencer standpoint, that has been remarkable. I think the single two most interesting things that are happening in influencer marketing is a AI influencers, influencers that are not human beings. And that's a really important conversation cuz I believe everybody that owns their business is going to be in the intellectual property business. They're going to own 10 influencers, not rent it out. That's a different story. And number two is B2B influencers. I think next year, this year, it's going to be a big conversation. And I think a lot of people who've built audiences on Twitter and on LinkedIn are going to start getting big paychecks from B2B companies in the way that we've seen in B toc the last 3 to four years. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, I can. Because I find my my main challenge is finding influencers on LinkedIn and and Twitter. For example, I tiers to promote my platform. So I search it's not on YouTube it's easy videographers cinematographers and then I get a whole list and I can see them according to viewers according to engagement according to thousand things but in LinkedIn there are very few that have a lot of followers and even them see the engagement on specific post only now they started videos on LinkedIn but I see that the engagement is very low so it's not marketing millennials or yep so who how even hashtag uh like so they could find them. Yeah. I So look, I think first Twitter same thing. Yeah. I think what I tend to do when I need to find longer tail is I hire hand-tohand combat, you know, humans to do the research. It's there. Like if you if you use Chat GBT right now and Google and Perplexity and and say who are the top 100 followed people on LinkedIn, you will land on a page. I've done it multiple times myself on a page that will show you the first 20 and ask you for money for the rest and is well worth your money for that. So, it's it's out there because I' I've spent some real time on this. Um I I think it's just it's 50 to 100 hours of finding them and then creating a constant flow. But I think the other thing to your credit of why it's hard to find and why I reacted the way I did, it's also not a big conversation right now. What's about to happen is it's about to become a huge conversation and then inevitably Adage is going to write the top 50 [ __ ] B2B influencers article and that will help you. Somebody will build a database and you know like it will just start. It's just starting to bubble up. But yeah, I mean, I'm on the receiving end of it because I'm always in that top 25 list. And and the economic impact of a B2B influencer is no different to why B2B companies do more sales than marketing. Like, it's going to be very ROI positive. It is going to be very lucrative. I think B2B influencers are going to make some real money. I really do. I think podcast is a good place for you to look, too. That's where I found a bunch cuz you can go to Spotify and Apple and look at the top 200 and there's some categories of like tech like you you'll see it's it's definitely bubbling authors, you know, people that are writing books that don't sell well, but they but you know, but but there is a little bit of juice for them on LinkedIn. So, I've done Amazon searches for like deep tech and SAS and to see who wrote a book and then go look at their LinkedIn. Time to go already. Yeah. [ __ ] Go ahead. sneak it in. Um, Ash from Tech Creative Agency. Um, my question was on are you going to see brands migrate away from creators to perhaps AIEL avatars to have more control? 100%. What the influencers did to celebrities, AI influencers are about to do to influencers and they're going to cry about it and the hypocrisy is going to be fascinating. It's it by the way in a real [ __ ] way. Every person here has interacted and consumed an AI influencer and has no idea. There's the ones that you do know like those the sleazy, you know, only fan type girls. You could see you could see they're not real. Every person here has consumed an AI influencer piece of content and don't know they did. And it's that's today. In 24 months, it's going to be like, why in the world would you not own your influencer? No risk. You own the IP. You can monetize it. You start off using it to build your business and the [ __ ] thing for some reason has a million followers. You're like, "Wait a minute. I can get 10,000 from this fashion brand. People are going to subsidize their marketing by owning their influencer." Now, the issue is there's only 8 billion people on Earth. I think in about 24 months I'm going to have 8 billion influencers myself. So I I do think that we're going to learn what supply and demand means. You know, one of the reasons I was able to build my career was I was first on all these platforms. So I got to a million followers on Twitter when there was 8 million people on Twitter. You know, if I today where I am at tried to start my process of getting to a million followers on Twitter with 100 million people on the platform, good luck. It's just supply and demand of attention. So, I think it's going to be interesting. I think the people that move first like this year will get some real benefits, but every nancond it's going to get harder cuz I'm really sorry. Sorry. Bye. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Bye everyone. See you.