[Music] hello everybody and welcome to the bloom conversations I'm CLA jast I'm the director of city nation place which is the global forum for Place branding and place marketing I'm honored that Blom Consulting has invited me to join these podcast sessions just to introduce the discussions I see my job as asking the questions on behalf of you to ensure that we learn the most from the bloom experts and their guest speakers this podcast Series has been launched to celebrate Bloom's 20th anniversary happy birthday Bloom and throughout the series we'll be diving into the world of nation branding and place branded in each episode we'll be looking at just one thing you could focus on to improve your nation or place brand strategy in fact in each episode we'll be focusing on one of the 14 steps that bloom have identified as being being crucial to building an effective strategy so just one thing today and 14 things over the series of conversations so welcome to this next episode where we are going to be focusing on step eight in Bloom's 14 steps to place branding and Nation branding and step eight is all about activating Place brand touch points I'm delighted to welcome to this conversation Iman aleri who is nation and place brand ing director with Bloom Consulting based in Saudi Arabia welcome Iman nice to meet you nice to meet you too and also I'm Daniel Cavo who is head of the image and Country brand strategy office with prom Peru which is investment promotion tourism attraction all things Peru Daniel welcome nice to meet you too and it's great because I don't believe you two have met the fall so it's going to be interesting to kind of share ideas from the Middle East to Southern America and then back to C media Europe so I'm looking forward to the discussion can I come to you f in Mar so when we're talking about activating Place brand touch points how does Bloom set about defining what the touch points are can you give us an overview of how you map different touch points for a place brand absolutely pleas brand touch points are diverse in nature they're that platform where the brand is experienced I think the main elements that bloom focuses honor the spider brand and the spider brand is the actions the activities the policy stakeholder engagement digital identity and marketing this is the power to influence individual's image and National reputation this approach to place branding touch Point involves civil key elements that helps create cohesive brand experience for residents and also for visitors alike there are so many um I'll name some throughout the conversation starting from the identity of the city or the place and the storytelling that helps cities articulate their unique identity and narrative creating compelling stories that resonate with locals and visitors in the same time this includes defining the city's value culture and key differentiation of course a strong online presence is crucial for the brand to express itself moving to the public relations the events activities and so on up to the hard uh part of the brand touch points which is the way finding the signage within the city so there are a lot of touch points that a brand Alpha Poli need to focus on creating the same narrative I would say and also managing to say the same story yeah so having that core identity and and then expressing it in different channels and in different activities and of course you can't always just keep doing the same strapl line or this the same um paragraph of copy because it's going to work differently whether you're operating an event or operating on um a digital or a social Channel but having those core values at the heart of what you're saying so it's easier to express and absolutely and consistency um so everything ties together at the end this is where you express your value and your culture and What Makes You Different as a place what is your central idea that you actually communicate through these touch points yeah we've done all that other work before we've got to step eight of course as well and having identified That central idea having built your narrative then it's just making sure you're consistent with the way you express it you can't necessarily be in control of all these touch points some might be touch points that are operated by stakeholders whether that's private sector different government departments the challenge is to get everybody on board with that core idea that's also one of the other steps absolutely I think this is also the work that goes with Danielle from his own position making sure that all the stakeholders are aligned and there's a way to communicate the central idea to all of them I mean you you always have stakeholders that are private sector hotels restaurants um tour operators that you need to be aligned and also on board with you to tell the same story to make sure that there is a seamless experience either for the visitors or also the local yeah absolutely well let's come to you Daniel then because your has introduced you into the conversation what do you think of as the most important touch points and how do you ensure that you have a consistency of approach in terms of this is the story we want to get across as you mentioned we at PR and with our country brand we are the responsible to promote as an umbrella tourism trade exports and also investment so we have very different audiences when we target some uh campaigns or strategic to communicate with them so we have very different touch points that we use in our day-to-day work for tourism of course well in general speaking nowadays digital it's the key Channel we use because then we can really measure the correct kpis to know how effective our commun communication was with our audience but in general also we participate of course in trade shows salons and many many different opportunities we have to promote our products tourism of course is the one that directs its efforts to the final audience the on b2c when we say please come travel to Peru buy your ticket here book here for exports and investment we direct our communication basically to a B2B audience digital is is the one we use the most but of course a face-to-face communication is always made uh in all of our campaigns we are always are in touch uh with the public especially when we create a a specific campaign for the country brand in general can we talk a little bit about structure just so that our listeners today can understand how you deliver this in a practical way from Peru you're the country brand director you have worked with everybody to come up with a narrative and an identity for Peru that want to be expressed consistently across all of these touch points what's the key to ensuring that consistency have you developed a brand kit do you have a library of aspet that your separate departments can access so that the one's talking with the same voice in that way the tourism exports Investments and the image of the country nationally and internationally when we speak to our local audiences we promote identity and pride so we have a very clear Target and and message to to share with our local audience internationally what we do is to position our country contributing to its knowledge through a unique relevant and consistent identity we have three pillars and we our Communications goes through it in every Communications we go we said per it's multifaced because of our biodiversity our Gastronomy is specially is when you can find whatever you need it's in Peru that's one of our key slogans and of course captivate people who get in touch with Peru who has visited us always find more than expected so these are the three pillars we use to communicate to all of our audiences with all our campaigns and of course depending on our Target we Define different the strategics so the main badet it's goes through the tourism campaigns because it's very expensive to be present in more than 30 countries key markets who bring as around 80 85% of all of the inbound tourism to Peru with them we focus in terms of every different segment if it's nature it's adventure luxury Leisure Gastronomy and so on of course with a team we have in our intelligence department when they identify what the message suits better for for different markets and segments you mentioned you rely on digital channels for most of your Communications everybody's talking about Ai and generative AI using chat Bots and putting together tools so that you can you know create personalized responses when people visit your website is that something that you're looking at from Peru sure we we were working already with it we have different channels and when need refer to the country brand we have Instagram at Peru Tik Tok at marap Peru but for tourism all the communications both through the official uh tourism portal which is PED travel.com so when we're using new technologies and the new tools the in the coni brand promotion we want to be on on Trend all the time so of course we have used for example with AI we have created some content with Lamas from different professions it's a nice tool because sometimes we don't have the picture for everything we want to promote so sometimes we go through this tool to just get the way to show in a trend way some promotion uh post about coffee or alpaka or Pisco which are our main products of exports and who brings also identity and pride to Peruan so that tell me more about the LL of then so that you basically they're kind of summing up the character and the fun of Peru that they convey a a serious investment promotion message is is that how that works exactly as I said before when we address to the local audience what we seek is to create identity and PR for through so of course this was a trend that some months ago went I think was a captiv or maybe or I'm not sure who was like or a dinosaur who has like several offices or profession such as journalist or maybe a doctor a plumber Etc so we have created this we adapted we tropicalized this message with Alama instead of a dinosaur or a cap that was a huge success in our social media it's it's a case that we share happily with other people and the other thing I'd like to ask you about we talked about last year's Global conference with your colleague that you have your place of origin you have your made in Peru brand that you licensed the nation brand to certain producers OB that's a great way because if you have exports then these are tangible products that are coming from your country that carry your nation's brand can you share a little bit more about how that works and do your licenses have to meet certain criteria so that they're representing the country in the way that you would like them to represent the country for example we have created these licenses program immediately after the country brand was launched 13 years ago this program seeks to enas the knowledge of the country brand and its sectoral attributes at National and international levels and in this way the public and private sectors join forces to promote the best of Peru this is one of our main work with the local stakeholders companies and the private seor we identified where the through country brand logo can go we have three types of licenses first one is the institutional one for entities that promotes Peru might be nationally or internationally for products that is the most popular use of the of our license and of course in a bit maybe some trade shows some Film Festival some gastronomic Festival maybe a congress in Peru that brings people from abroad andc so nowadays we have more than 1900 license provided and the validity it's up for 2 years it's no cost but we are very strict with the applications we have managed to get a very good reputation of the country brand Pro so we really look after every application to be sure that the company or that want to join our program has also a good a we provide the license to use the country brand Ru but also for Our sectorial Brands which is superfoods Peru or superfoods alpaka Del Peru from our textile sector Peru textiles as well disco Spirit of Peru our national spirit and coffees from Peru unique specialities this is one of the sectoral brands we also provide a license to use for peline products and for exports the most companies that use this these levos are already companies which exports these products and so we can go together with them we have made a poll with our licenses in the program and what they recognize to bring or to use the with the Peru country brand is that 86% said that it's Peruvian that brings the origin of the product as Peruvian and also they related to Quality with reputations and reliable so this is for us a very successful program as I said is at no cost we are always looking for more companies improve uh SN or big companies to join this program sounds great and and it makes me think Iman we we started off the conversation by talking about that challenge of ensuring that you have a consistent brand identity across all of your touch points that you're tening a consistent narrative but the other challenge is to increase the touch points um you have with different audiences and working with the private sector is I don't know if it's a shortcut because it's a lot of work but it's it's one way of increasing fch points isn't it do you have any um comments on that imar any places or cities you've worked with who do a good job around engaging their private sector in building the place brand I think this is this is a challenge that will always uh be there not only with the private sector but also the public sector Daniel mentioned tourism as one pillar but also attracting uh foreign direct investment EXP Sports there's a lot of entities governmental entities that actually does this job and I think the alignment and the governance behind this takes a lot of work and a lot of uh time especially when involves uh policy making to make sure that's consistent with the um core idea or the central idea of the um cities um I mean technology you mentioned you touched on it there's always going to be a Chann of there's always a direct communication there's always online there's always experience marketing the the challenge we're facing now is what is the main guidelines that will be put in place to help private sector to themselves understand that this is aligned with this city or not there's a lot of uh great examples but what Bloom does as part of services is the bloom Academy where we try to bring all these stakeholders together and provide tools that makes this easier on the long term to educate and align with stakeholders customer service is part of bit as well uh whenever this is due the consistency of the feedback mechanism with the visitors and the locals make sure that these touch points are locked and and and the feedback uh loop is actually studied very well there's a lot of initiatives and I think we're seeing more and more Innovative channels that a lot of cities are using great thank you and Daniel lots of people mentioned Peru as a nation brand that they've been watching growing confidence and deliver a successful campaign for the country what has been one of your key learnings along the way in terms of how you make sure that you're consistently conveying the same brand story across different touch points one of the key factors of the success of the country brand of through is that we haven't changed our graphic identity ever we have updated of course but the true logo you know it's been the same since the very beginning so luckily for the country BR Peru people who has been in charge to administrate it to Ru we have the clear idea to get to know the people that the country brand Peru is from the state not of the government so that I think this is one of the main success of the country BR per that whoever is in charge in the ministry or in the government uh the country brand Peru has been always had the same key message the same pillars the same graphic identity and this is actually a very very huge challenge that we're facing day to day it's very appealing to get closer to the country brand for many reasons in terms of politics but we are always of course we know we belong to a governmental entity but still uh we are main challenge is to be as aptic as possible with our content and by the end what we see with the country BR Peru is to bring more incomes and development for our country so sometimes it's not that strategic to be linked so directly with the people who is in the power at the time I think that's key it's a real challenge for places around the world to create that separation from politics and brand the longer you stick with a narrative the the more it's going to resonate with people and if you don't keep changing it then you don't have to keep worrying whether you've got the right logo on the right Channel and yeah because you know doing a brand refresh can be a complete nightmare from a practical level would you agree uh Iman that it's not just the breadth of touch points but the longevity and consistency of message over a period of time that um has the greatest impact no absolutely and there is a lot of external factors that sometimes affects the country or the city of reputation but I think effective are strategies can enhance the city visibility through media coverage influen or partnership thought leadership showcasing where the city has to offer and stay authentic make it all about the people and about the nation not the country as as a political territory making sure that there is experiences heart-to- heart something that connects Nations rather than countries yeah there that's very interesting and it's interesting to get the city perspective alongside the nation perspective Daniel from our time when we did a conference in Latin America in PSTA Rica about six years ago all of our attendees were focused on the nation brand of countries across Latin America and and Central America there was a lot of conversation about whether the cities of Latin America would start to emerge and develop their own place brand strategies and I'm not conscious that I've seen that happening much do within Peru are your cities and and regions looking to develop their own brand strategy and how does that time with your nation brand they have actually already we have about five to six Regional brand sometimes we are involved uh with them not in terms of participating directly in the construction of the brand but as an external advisor for them so they usually comes to us for some advice to get to know how we did it uh we make it such a successful brand and when we start to tell them it took us at least 3 years to create this through country brand and the investment they have to have and all the teams they have to to work with to get this promotion to in efficient way and then they decide to do whatever they want but at least we are advising them and sharing our experience uh to try to to make this original brand not only a logo but also identity that really differentiates with pillar and uniqueness and all that we know that we have to make to create a national or a regional brand yeah and it's not really a question of politics because as imar was saying you separate from the political position of the country when you're looking at your nation brand or indeed looking at the city Brands but it is about the values and the cultural identity I was speaking recently with David DS from m and Dan terce or Christ Church in New Zealand Dan worked on the city brand for Christ Church there is such a continuity between the way New Zealand as a country talks about itself and the way the cities of New Zealand present their brand having that extra connection means at that point your city began become Another Touch point for you as a nation brand I think that's also worth bearing in mind I can see that we're nearly at the end of our time i' give you I've been doing all the questions and connecting Daniel have you got any questions for Iman Iman have you got any questions for Daniel on my side I would like to know um I mean we' been as just related or the last question and how do you might work what would you advise cities or regions to create their local branding sometimes said term of budget sometimes is a very political issue that the new major the new governor wants to have their local brand what would you recommend us to to do or what we can do with with them I think there's a lot of ways to connect with local citizens within the city or the place uh and there are a lot of initiatives that can be done through small uh communication channels that is usually brings people together and make them a decision maker when it comes to how do they want their City to be perceived as well of it is direct communication uh making sure that they're aware of your plans when it comes to all the sectors you're trying to attract one part of a success for City branding is how the nation accepts visitors as well and I think we've seen recently a lot of uh protesting uh for over tourism and you need to have the Buy in from the local and you can't have it without them being part of the decision making and seeing the long-term value of why we're doing what we're doing why you're you're doing all these promotion why these visitors has to come and and to experience the culture of the place and contribute to the economies and I think this is also touched Point clearing what you said about cities versus countries I think we're seeing more city-based economy building or nation building every city is now trying to have a diverse cult different positioning that they want to communicate and it contributes to the overall Nation brand or or country brand in general so we're seeing a lot of cities developing their own uh branding developing their own culture and values trying to position themselves differently and they contribute to the bigger GDP of the country and there's no right and wrong there is top down and there is bottom up eventually you're going to reach there either you start with a country brand and then you see that all the cities and the places are adapting and tweaking it based on what they think is suitable for them but and and it gets complicated the bigger the country it is I mean bigger countries has different regions different cities that you can slightly feel the difference in experiences and the culture wherever you go so it's a must to have their own identity and and and speak uh on behalf of that and have their own central idea but the smaller the country that you want it more consistent and you want to keep this authenticity around every part of it yeah I wonder I suspect Money Talks it's a really interesting question I'm going to go away doing a little research around it whether there is anywhere a nation brand Team providing funding grants support to their cities and regions to develop stronger Place Brands because for of those will add up to a stronger hole um if it's done with some consistency of a you know finding the individual voice but building to a nation Grand poll I think it would be really interesting to look it about I'm thinking in the UK the great Campaign which I I think it's more as a campaign than a nation brand if I'm being honest but it can be used by individual cities or regions or attractions within the UK it's almost like private sector licensed the brand they can license the great brand they can cooperate with the great brand and great and visit Britain provide grants for product development in tourism for example so if two regions or two cities are trying to develop a joint marketing strategy or a tour marketing strategy or something like that they can get some funding from central government it means it's all fitting in the message private sector as well some big private sector companies who benefit from exports actually want to make sure that the country brand has a better value internationally so they can markets for their product so you see them sometimes supporting the image of the country the nation brand indirectly trying to make sure that that the country perceived well so they can find markets for the products absolutely I mean Daniel you mentioned that nobody pays for the Peru license but in in other countries they they have a license fee to use the nation brand and and then that provides that additional funding which creates the exhibitions that or the trade delegations Etc so many many different ways lots of things to keep talking about in on private sector we have a research study coming out which we'll be talking about at the global conference this year so that's in November 2024 in London but uh for now thank you B so much for your time that was a really interesting conversation thank you Daniel thank you Iman and thank you everybody for listening we look forward to coming back to talk about step nine on the next episode thank you very much thank you all [Music]