Insights from Peter Kell on VSLs

Finding new, unique mechanisms is definitely the most trailblazer thing you could do in this industry. At the highest level, when you have had big campaigns under your belt, then your mission is to go find breakthrough shit. Peter Kell, he made more than 40 million dollars in 12 months with his VSLs. Today, he is the director of VSLs at Mindvalley, the largest VSL advertiser in the world. I think one of the best identities you could have if you were a VSL guy is to be a VSL artist. Like, you're just fucking making art here. You are like a fucking artistic gangster. Let's say that I hire you, like, some reason, like, I found, like, I don't know, a billion dollars and then I pay you to... write a VSL. What's the first step that you take? One of the most important parts of that is making sure that the root cause of the problem and the solution to that make a lot of sense. Do you have any tips that maybe you can share to help improve like finding these unique mechanism? Right. So to create the leads that inspire someone to watch your VSL to the very end, there's a couple of things that I do. I select any one of these. leads and bam it rewrites it for us so super cool it makes your job really easy when you optimize the vsls do you think that there are some high leverage points that people should test when they're they want to increase conversion really cool question this is the deepest most effective that i've ever found and this is the reason that people get blocked it doesn't matter how good you get at the game if you're a magnet is facing the wrong way Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Secrets of the Scale podcast, which is the Vturb podcast. If you don't know, Vturb is a 100% video hosting focused on video sales. Today, the biggest players in Brazil use Vturb in their video sales, such as G4 Educação, Novo Mercado, Escola do Perpétuo, Misha, and also outside of Brazil, such as Mindvalley, which is the largest infoproductor in the world. They make more than 1.5 billion reais a year. So if they trust Vturb, I think you should trust them too. and do a test of VTURB in your operation, in your sales video. That's why I left a link where you will have 15% discount for two months. Here in the comments, just click there, create your account in VTURB, which will already be applied automatically, this discount in your account. This is an incentive for you to be able to test VTURB, apply it in your business and increase the sales of your sales video as well, as well as the biggest players in the Brazilian market are doing, okay? And besides that, when you create your account, I will also give you a training called Optimizing Your Sales View, so that you can apply your sales view there and make it sell much more than it sells today with the classes we have there. But besides helping you to increase your conversion with VTurbo, we also have a podcast, Segredos da Escala, where I help you to increase your conversion in other ways, bringing content here from extremely qualified guests, so that you can get one, two, sometimes three tips there, if the podcast is good, apply it to your business and scale it too. So, man, see the podcast there, I hope you like it and thanks! So Peter, thank you so much for being here. First of all, could you please tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do right now, what you have done just for the few people here in Brazil that don't know you and would like to know you better? Oh, yeah. So my name is Peter Kell, and I really love the idea of lifestyle design. So how do you create the most epic life you could possibly imagine? That way you can have the most fun life you could possibly imagine and live life with no regrets at the end of the day. And very quickly, I was like, man, if I could get rich on the internet by an early age, that would be probably the best place to start making an epic life. And after four years of struggling, I finally figured out that, you know, media buying and copywriting and creating video sales letters and making big campaigns on the internet was the fastest way to do that. I met some mentors that gave me the keys. So I spent about six and a half years ago. I decided that like just making the videos was the most valuable skill I could have video sales letters so I committed my life to mastering that skill set and that did give me the life I was after like just the cars and the girls and the lambos and all those things and now that eventually evolved into giving back and now creating AI tools so I own a company called genius.ai and we're making affiliate marketing and network marketing and direct sales easier for those who Don't have time to learn the skills and just want to get results. That's kind of the fast shindig there. Awesome. And you're also a director of VSL at Mindvalley, right? Right. Yeah, that is a, I'm still a partner at the company, but I haven't been doing VSLs for them for a little over a year and a half now. Got it. You know that they are actually Viterb clients, right? Or you don't know that? Why are you telling me that? Congratulations. I'll get an idea. Yeah, that's cool. That's a very nice testimonial that I have there. Man, I'm very curious. Who were these mentors that you just told me that gave you the keys to internet marketing success? Right. So there are two guys. One of the guys name is Jason Applebaum. The other one's called John Fishburne. Jason's very loud on Instagram, Lambos, big houses, fun, crazy, flashy lifestyle. And John is very secretive behind the scenes. He likes cruising around on boats and living on islands and getting soaking in the sun and stuff like that and being low key. And these guys just, you know, I convinced them over time through a mastermind that I had started to let me uh to teach me because i had tried starting all these businesses and i was just convinced that i was terrible at business and that all my stuff would fail you know seven companies in a row fail and you just gotta probably i don't want to do an eighth one so i was committed to how do i become an apprentice to a master and i was looking out looking for masters and these are the guys that i eventually found and convinced me convince them to let me join them got it do you think that's the best way to actually learn something to go Like spend your time trying to find a mentor that's going to teach you? Or do you think that people should try to like do it yourself, maybe buy a copywriting course or read more books or stuff? How do you think is the best approach to get you to success faster? Well, if I had to start all over again, I would go straight head first towards finding a badass mentor and being on the right seat on the right bus. Because in this game, What gets you the results are the skills. And unfortunately, watching courses and reading books doesn't actually get you skills, right? It gets you knowledge, but skills come from getting results. And, you know, at the end of the day, your results of like how much money did you make yesterday on the internet? It's pretty much your skills, right? You can read a lot of books. That doesn't change how much money you made on the internet. You have to make a campaign, launch that thing on ads and get it profitable. That is actual skills. While the other stuff is just knowledge in the air. So I had to get in the right seat in the right bus. And so do you. And so does everybody. And that just means a place where they can practice and get the skill sets. And if they get mentors, they can be in a better coliseum to play the game than they could ever create on their own. So I'm a huge fan of doing whatever it takes, working for free for the right people or whatever to get yourself in the right seat on the right bus. I actually, when I started my entrepreneurship journey, I actually worked for free. for a company here in Brazil called Empiricus, which is like Agora Financial, but here in Brazil. I was a copywriter there. And it was pretty cool. I learned a lot. So yeah, I also agree with that. Sometimes it's hard to find mentors because, well, you have to convince someone to actually teach you. Just buying cursors and reading books, you don't have to convince anyone. You just pay for it and it's okay. But since we're talking about how to get stuff... that we want. I know that you're very big on this thing called manifesting, right? To be honest, I don't really know what it is. I studied a little bit about Maxwell Maltz in a book called Psycho-Cybernetics. I don't know if it's the same thing. Could you please tell the audience here, also me, what is this thing called manifesting? Why is it important? Why are you so big on it? Why do you advocate so much for it? Right. So manifesting is this idea that Sadly, on a deep down level, you are creating a reality with every thought and every piece of your imagination. And this is not something I really wanted to be interested in. This is just the last thing that I started doing before my life took off. And it has taken off multiple separate times, all using the principles of, you know, the law of attraction or the principles of manifestation, which is, again, is the images that you're holding in your mind are what's creating your reality. And. Most people take for granted seriously this ability that they have. They have this like literal soul inside them that is able to move reality in ways they can't really comprehend and able to send out emotional boomerangs. People believe in karma, right? This invisible force that if you do something bad, it bounces back to you like a boomerang. Karma is like a boomerang. You do nice things that come back to you. Well, that boomerang. exists not just in good or bad things, but in all things you imagine and all emotions that you put out to the world. So you're constantly getting things back to you that are either good or bad. There are ways that you can leverage this to, quote unquote, get really lucky and, quote unquote, have your life fall together and have all the stars align in your life. I found out that there was other things in the way of me being successful when I used to struggle and things that were not skill set related and things that were not self-sabotage related where my behaviors were off. Right. It was like random things. It was almost like being a magnet, you know. that was faced the wrong way i get closer towards my goal but the second that i got really close to it it would bounce away from me invisible and invisible force would cause it to push away from me that's manifestation is understanding what the fuck that is and how to flip yourself so you attract these thing to you because if you don't flip the magnet you'll never get to it but it's it's enough you cannot it doesn't work right it doesn't you have to flip it Hey guys, before you continue here on the podcast, I just wanted to thank you here, because we managed to make progress, we decreased the number of people who are not subscribed here on the VTurbo channel. This number today is at 59.2%, it will appear the print on the screen, and before it was 65%. So man, thank you, this is helping us to grow more here on our channel. Our goal here is to reach 50% of people who watch our videos being subscribed here on the channel. So if you haven't subscribed yet, man, click here below, subscribe here. You don't lose anything with this, okay? Quite the opposite, you just have to win with this. Because the more subscribers you have to the channel, the more it grows. We can bring even bigger guests, which will have even better content, so that you can watch it. So you don't lose anything with this, you just have to win. So, man, click here below, okay? Help us to reach the goal of reaching 50% of people who watch the channel as subscribers. Thank you very much and have a good podcast. Do you think, I mean, have you read this book? Yes, that was a huge book for me. So in this book, and there is also another book called The New Psycho-Cybernetics. It's actually a program by Dan Kennedy, which is a very respected marketer. I don't know if people in Brazil here, they know it, but if you don't know, it's going to appear on the screen right now. Dan Kennedy searches books on Amazon. It's worth it. There he teaches two techniques. The first one, it's called mental rehearsal, where you actually just close your eyes and you keep imagining what you're actually going to do. And you keep doing that until you feel like you got it and then it's okay. He says that if you just do that, you actually improve your skills on doing that thing just by imagining it because your brain cannot differentiate between the actual thing. between your imagination and reality. And there is also a second technique that the name is theater of the mind. That's the one where you actually just imagine yourself looking at it and then like a theater. And craziest thing is that the year that I made my first million, I was actually using these techniques every day. Now, sadly, I think that I forgot about them, but yeah, I need to come back to them. But do you think that these techniques, they are good? They are worth it? Do you think that we have more techniques for that? How do people get started in manifestation? Right. So here's what happens. Here's why that technique works. And in Psycho-Cybernetics, that book is written by a plastic surgeon. Amazing book. And he doesn't really dive into any of the spirituality things behind it. But what he is diving to is how it works in rehearsal and mental rehearsal and mentally visualizing how you would like things to go. And what it doesn't talk about, which some other books talk about, is the spiritual laws that that practice is invoking that causes this stuff to manifest that are greater and more powerful than just your imagination or your subconscious mind kicking on board. Right. So one of the techniques, again, is mental rehearsal. Right. picturing things how you would like it to go. Let's say you launch a campaign on Facebook or TikTok and it's not working and you get this negative experience, right? And you kind of feel bad or you do something in your business that doesn't work and you feel bad. Well, what this is telling you to do is, hey, let's just start picturing the moment where it works, where you're making the thousand dollars a day that you were looking for, that you were dreaming for, and you feel amazing. And you begin to work. on imagining that this is happening. Because the problem is that when you launch something and it doesn't work and you feel bad, and you do this affirmation to yourself, this isn't working, right? This campaign is hard. Business is tough. You start saying this inner dialogue to yourself. Well, Your whatever you believe is true at the root cause of your mind is what it will manifest into your reality. And currently what you're saying in your you're affirming and you're declaring your reality is, is this is hard. This doesn't work. This isn't it. Right. And all of that turns you into a magnet for this being hard. This not working, this being bad. And the second that you get close to you having a winning campaign, you having a business that's working. The other side of your life, right? A different version of your life where you're making $1,000 a day or whatever, and your business is booming, and your campaigns are taking off, and you're highly profitable, and it's so easy and effortless. The second that you get close to that life, you are an opposite magnet. So you will push it away. You will do more than self-sabotage. Even if you force yourself to get there, the magnet will push you away eventually, and it will fall out of your hands, which is what happened to me. So what mental rehearsal is doing... is even though your 3D reality says this stuff isn't working, you are going to start picturing and visualizing, I am so happy and grateful now that I'm making $1,000 a day, now that my campaigns are amazing, now that my audience is easily and instantly able to recognize the value of my product and buying that shit by the fucking boatload. This business is amazing. It's fucking dope. And I'm super rich. I'm fucking balling out of control. I make 50 grand every day. Out easily and consistently. It's unbelievable, right? You're putting out this opposite energy and you're imagining each scenario in your life. And that turns you into a positive emotional. That is positive karma that you're sending out to the universe. Life is a game of boomerangs and this emotional boomerangs that you're sending out is what gets back to you. And that is the real secret. When you live from this energy, you will tune yourself in to the ideas that will get you. the results that you're looking for. And you won't be suffering like everybody else in this, this isn't working, bad state, bad mentality, which is so easy to get caught into. But you must flip it in your mind if you want to flip it in your reality. Everything first starts in the heart. As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is, is the famous quote. So you must get it real in your heart and in your subconscious and believe that this works. It's called having faith in God or faith in the universe or whatever. And this is like all over Think and Grow Rich. This is in psycho cybernetics. This is the deepest, most effective shit that I ever found. And this is the reason that people get blocked. It doesn't matter how good you get at the game if you're a magnet is facing the wrong way. Yeah, yeah. You always got to switch it. That's so interesting that you just told all that because from my experience, I have studied a little bit about manifesting too, but only like the actual techniques. I think I never read a book about the actual spiritual laws to talk about that. Could you recommend something here for me and also for the audience that people that want to go more to the spiritual side, some good book that I don't know, maybe they should read it? Yeah, I got one sitting right here. There's one called Feeling is the Secret by Neville Goddard. Feeling is the Secret. Look how tiny it is. It's a tiny little book. You can read it in one hour. Super easy. There's also another book by Neville that's also tiny called The Power of Awareness, which I thought was on my desk, but apparently it's not on my desk. It's The Secret Power of Awareness. Got it. Power of Awareness. Phenomenal book. And it just goes straight to the point about the laws of the universe and how you're creating your own reality and all those things. Awesome. And I found this book after... This book is how I manifested my deal with Mindvalley and my opportunity with Mindvalley. following this book specifically. I'd lost all this money from losing, from selling my company and my skincare brand. And I started manifesting to get myself out of the situation. And I studied literally both these books, The Power of Awareness and Feeling is the Secret by Neville Goddard. And I practiced it and it fucking works. Again, for like the dozenth time that manifesting has worked and saved myself in my life. So I'm a huge fan. Yeah, I can see that. Well, thanks for all that, man. I think it's pretty valuable for me and also the audience. Since we're talking about that, you said that you started this skincare company that you actually sold at the end of the day. So... When you can actually sell a direct response business, I think that's something very impressive because the truth is that most direct response business, they just want to sell stuff. They don't care about the client. They just advertise it and then sell it and then that's it. And then the next day they need to go and sell to other clients. What do you think is the main difference? your mindset and also the thing that you actually do to differentiate yourself and you don't just create like a cashflow business, but you create a good direct response business that maybe you can sell in the future. How did you do that? Right. So I think the root of it is, you know, I believe that God put me here for something more than just making money. And my life is important and my life is valuable. And I don't want to spend fucking 60 years just making money month after month. That's all I care about. That's my thing. So if you don't start a business that has potential for a high liquidity event, like an exit, then you are in a, you are in a hamster wheel that just runs. For as long as you run, right, it's most people build these cash flow businesses. They're cash machines, right? If you're not selling a company, it's a cash machine, which is great. It can get you that amazing life, especially if you get your first 10 grand a month and then 50 and then 100, then 200. And then if you get really phenomenal, you can max it out. Now I want to say max it out, but you can get a million dollars a month. I know some guys do even beyond that, right? Yeah. So that at the end of the day, though, is still a hamster wheel. if you're not doing it on something that has high enterprise value. So this is one of the big lessons that I learned because I was a big affiliate. I did millions of dollars in sales as an affiliate, but I didn't have anything that it just, there was no enterprise value. It was worth nothing. The traffic stops, my business is zero, right? And then I start to realize, wow, if I did all of the sales on something that I owned, that was nice, I would get a multiple on this. Someone would want to buy this from me. But if it was a dropshipping company, that would also be worth. nothing but it's called all the customers were pissed so if you're gonna start focusing on optimizing your enterprise value that let's fucking do it let's optimize it let's make an amazing brand with an amazing product with a real dermatologist with real professional stuff with fast shipping times let's let's let's do this let's make a lot of sales millions of dollars on sales but let's do it on something that's worth a lot of money yeah because then you can get an exit and then why all your friends are still working You've moved on to a bigger, more important part of your life. Awesome. Just to give you some context, I also did the exact same thing here in Brazil. I had like a Brazilian golden hippo. Let's say I have like 70 people, employees that were working for us. We also had a skincare brand that we had around 4,000 subscriptions. So it was pretty cool. But at the end of the day, I just decided to stop it. I did not sell it. Then I created VTurb, which now has enterprise value. So I think that I was one of the first here in Brazil to actually create a direct response business that was more like legit, not just selling. Yeah. And yeah, so how do you think that the product... I mean, what's the importance of the product in this kind of business? And how do you actually create a good product? Because you say that you went to a dermatologist, so maybe he or she was creating or he, I don't know, was creating the formula. How does this process work? And how do you think that someone that is doing... Like just a cash flow business can transition from cash flow to actually building something more long term with equity. Yes. So my story was I was an affiliate marketer. I finally found a campaign that blew up selling skincare products. And then the guy I was working with wanted me to pause my Facebook campaign because he wanted to take it or whatever. And that really frustrated us. So I had a campaign I knew was working. And that skincare product has ingredients I knew were selling very well. The unique mechanism was amazing. Yeah. So I was a sales VSL master, but I wasn't a product creation master. I had no idea how to do this. I was like, what do I hire scientists and like freaking start asking them to put stuff in bottles and shake them around and stuff. I don't understand. But no, it turns out that there are manufacturing companies that already have scientists on staff and already shook the bottles for you and you can just work with them. Yeah. But again, even that was too complicated for me. So what happened was I realized, listen, you should only be a master of one thing. I'm a master of VSLs. I'm going to stay a master of VSLs. I have to find somebody who can run this part of the business for me and execute this for me. That's what a team does. I handle this thing. You handle that thing. And I had found this friend. I had this friend who owned an e-commerce business selling pillows that I had sold a lot of his pillows. They blew up. So I was like, hey, bro, pillows suck. You should come work with us. And then when I got him on the team, he knew instantly how to do it all. He knew instantly what manufacturers to go look for, who could recreate this product with great ingredients and great boxes and great packaging and all that stuff and fast shipping times. And he got it all done for me effortless. So how do you do it is the same way you do anything. You find someone that knows how to do it. Yeah. Essentially, that's your job. Find someone who knows how to do it. Yeah. And then you stay doing what you're doing. Of course. At the end of the day, you as the entrepreneur, you have the responsibility to actually get shit done. And if you don't know it, man, just hire someone. Just figure it out. Just do it. That's it. Yeah. But now you have this experience with software, right? Where you create like genius AI, which is... very different, I think, from a direct response business, at least from my experience. Man, I've been doing software right now. And Viterb, we have like thousands of clients here in Brazil. We are Brazilian based, but we also have lots of international clients. Some of the biggest advertisers in the whole planet are using us. And I never spent one dollar on ads, at least outside Brazil. And for the first two years of Viterb, I never spent one dollar on ads. It was just through word of mouth. And what has it been like having this new experience in another business model? Are you having to reinvent yourself? Because as a VSL master, I don't know if you're applying VSLs to Genius AI. How's your experience with this new company, with this new business model? Yeah, so I decided to have a complete identity transformation. I had gotten to the top of the VSL game. And I... I was too young not to keep growing. I'm too young not to feel like I have a lot more ahead of me with life. But I didn't feel like there was monstrous improvements I could make in the VSL world anymore. Sure, there was like other moves I could make, but I wasn't super inspired to do them. So I wanted to pivot and find a new skill set that I could be great at. And I found AI product development. That was it. I want to make, invent, create new epic products that is used by hundreds of thousands of people. And. Because it's also the same thing. I'm also optimizing for enterprise value. Like, what can I do that is super fun, but also makes me more money than I've ever made in my whole life? Because why not? Why would you do anything but try to make the most money you've made in your whole life? Yeah. And AI product creation was kind of it. Now, it's definitely a challenge. It's definitely highly expensive, right? It takes a lot of money to be building software tech all day long and having teams run. And just like you, we started out with ads at the beginning, but then we paused it. And we just did product development. We were just going to build Epic products and do B2B, which is like just emailing leaders at big corporations to ask them if they want to use this and push it out to the people and just play that game for the whole time, which is just a totally different game. I don't think it's as nuclear as cracking a big advertising campaign is, but what's more fun for me is still building this. And then, of course, the enterprise value on an AI company or a software company is crazy when you get people hooked on it. Yeah, if it works, it's amazing. At least that's my bet for Viterb. I hope I can grow it to be the biggest in the world and then maybe sell it. I don't know. Let's see. I probably can. I hope so, man. If you want to buy, let me know. Bye. Valeu e bom podcast. And also, so since you're like the master of the VSL, let's get into the VSLs. I think that's what people really want to know. So what's the first thing that you do when you're going to create a VSL? Let's say, hey, Peter, let's say that I hire you. like some reason, like I found a, like, I don't know, a billion dollars and then I pay you to write a VSL for, for Vterb or for, I don't know, some skincare brand or anything. What's the first step that you take? Yeah. So the first step that I take is, well, I want to know if it's a big enough niche, right? So if it's a niche that's assuming that this is a really big product in a niche that has proven to have lots of people buy stuff in this niche, the first thing you have to do is kind of gather your puzzle pieces, right? At the end of the day. You've got to gather what problem is this solving? What emotional problems is this solving? I kind of have a little spreadsheet that I would fill out. Like what's the root cause of the problem? What's the solution to that? And get absolute crystal clarity on all of the puzzle pieces that I'm going to use to begin creating a VSL with, right? Like, no, what do I work with? One of the most important parts of that is making sure that the root cause of the problem and the solution to that make a lot of sense. And that bridge is kind of built. You know, everybody who buys a product is Somebody who's in pain, there's this big gap in front of them. And on the other side of the gap is their happy life with all their problems solved. Right. Yeah. And they need to believe that buying your shit, buying your product can help them cross that gap and get them to where they want to be. And they need to be able to kind of picture it in their mind and see how that could kind of work. Yeah. And a lot of times people have, you know, unique mechanisms that kind of suck that aren't believable. Yeah. Like I remember. This skincare brand that had like a plant-based stem cell that they found in an apple in Switzerland that'll make your stem cells suddenly start growing faster. So women who had thin, wrinkly, transparent skin, if you just fucking rub this stem cell shit on your arm, it'll make your stem cells grow skin cells faster and you'll have youth looking skin. I'm like, that just sounds like a bunch of bullshit, right? Yeah. And market said it was bullshit. People didn't want to buy very much of it and it didn't scale. So you need to make sure that. Your mechanism makes a lot of sense in clicks. And if you want to have something that's nuclear, then it has to be some new mechanism in most big niches. I mean, I would say in all big niches, the next big campaign involves a new mechanism, a new way of solving the root cause of the problem, a new profound discovery on what the true root cause of the problem is, which makes this other stuff work better. I say that's step one is getting your puzzle pieces in order and having them connect really well. Yeah. So one question that I have about this is that, at least for me, when I'm writing, I'm also a copywriter. Just to let you know, I've been doing this for 10 years now. I sold around 50 million USD. So, yeah, I mean, that's not a lot for United States standards. That's a lot for anybody, bro. Yeah. Here in Brazil, it's a lot. I can tell you that. A lot. That's a lot. Yeah. So when I'm writing for like health and health and beauty, also maybe relationships, maybe like languages, I always use this root cause argument. So, for example, for the for your skincare brand, from what I remember, you had that mechanism from the protein progerin, which stops the cellular renewal or something like that. I don't remember. Yeah. And yeah, it's a pretty good mechanism. And but if I'm selling like a business opportunity, then I don't really use the root cause argument because I just like don't find a way to actually fit this kind of argument in this niche. Then what I do is that I first show them that there is something that they can do. Like, hey, if you do this, then you will get your benefit on the health niche, which will be like, hey, if you solve this problem, this root cause, you get the benefit. And then on this opposite, hey, if you do this action, like if you. you sell info products, if you use genius AI, if you do this, that, or whatever, you will get, you will make money. And then the way to make money is through this unique mechanism. So my question is, do you use this root cause argument for every niche and does it always work? Or do you have like specific kinds of arguments for each niche that you're working on? Listen, this definitely doesn't work at every single niche. That's the thing about VSLs is like, It's not like when you ascend to the top of the VSL world, you are suddenly a grandmaster who could write amazing, amazing VSLs. It's not really like that. It's more like you just made so many fucking campaigns and a few of them exploded really big and are happen to be some of the biggest in the world now. But you're still like, I barely know what I'm doing, bro. Like half these half these niches like just don't work. That doesn't work. I thought that like the vast majority of my ideas don't work. Yeah. So it's not like I'm like coming at this like Mr. Genius here. huge i'm just like swinging as hard as i can and then something hits eventually got it and then i'm famous all of a sudden it's like what the hell right but it's like the reality is like i don't know dude i think this let's just try doing that i don't fucking know yeah the root cause argument i mean it probably always works man at least here in brazil is the most famous people are people have been using that for years now you So yeah, but that's also the first thing that I do. I try to find this unique mechanism. And then what's the second thing that you do? Then you write maybe the offer or you go to the lead or how's your process? Oh, I got the swipes. Swipes are next, right? So every VSL artist's homework. And by the way, I think one of the best identities you could have if you were a VSL guy is to be a VSL artist. Like you're just fucking making art here. You are like a fucking artistic gangster. Why do you call that VSL artist? What's the idea behind it? I like this. Well, if I think I'm a copywriter, I don't vibe with it, right? I don't vibe with identity. Um, but artists is like, bro, you are doing fucking dope shit here. Like you are painting every single fucking sentence. You are dialing everything in to be amazing. It's like an art. It's like a piece of art. You know, your little script here that you put together. That's so cool. It's beautiful. It makes you look at what you do, like just super cool. And it's fucking beautiful work that you're putting together and you're very proud of it and you're stoked about it. And if it works or not, whatever, but, and you're, you're dissecting all parts of your VSL to improve the way that. what you're showing people, all these different pieces. You're creating an art video that you're very proud of. So I personally like that frame, how to become a world-class VSL artist, right? I'm a world-class VSL artist. That's one of the best identities I think you could plant. Yeah. So people, hey guys, right now, you're not corporates anymore. You need to see yourself as VSL artists. You need to start manifesting that. It's fucking cool, right? Just start saying, I am a world-class. VSL artist. I am the greatest VSL artist of all time. Just start saying that to yourself over and over again for the rest of your life, just to see what happens. Yeah. Just in case. Right. So part of your homework. Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say part of their homework as being a VSL artist is you have to digest VSLs every morning, right? You have to go find the biggest campaigns on the internet. You need to get the transcript for the VSL. And you need to break it down scene by scene, scene by scene. This becomes your favorite thing to do because it's like watching fucking, it's like watching your favorite sports athlete play a fucking game, right? Who doesn't like watching LeBron James fucking slam a dunk, right? Yeah. That's what you're doing. But we do that through other people's transcripts and copywriting and looking at the VSL they wrote and breaking it down scene by scene, watching what they did. Watching the fucking moves they made. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right? Yeah. Do you think that this also works for not only VSLs, but like old sales letters, like direct mail, bookalogs, megalogs, that kind of stuff? Yes. 100%. Everything that has ever sold anything is a sales formula. Yeah. Right? They're all formulas. It's all like when I said the nightmare story and went in with the discovery and hooked them with the seven open loops and then it's like, bro, that's a strategy to hook people in that is effective and you know it works. It's proven. It's a proven golden map to the treasure, right? There's a good way to look at it, right? Fucking LeBron James did this fucking move and then he slammed dunk. I'm going to learn that move. I'm going to study that move. I'm going to practice that move. That's kind of the way you want to be looking at it. Got it. Yeah. So after you have all like, I mean, you thought about your mechanism, then you have like a real, I mean, a new root cause that you can present to the market, also a unique solution that will solve it. And then you have also the swipes of what is working right now. So, you know, hey, this kind of angle is working, like with this format, this amount of words, this length of VSL. What's your next step? Right. So after you've done your homework, which is study the biggest campaigns in the world, I would probably just collect. I mean, I used to collect like 20 of them. Right. I would have 12 of them that I would put in my own little VSL Bible. And this is like one spot with all of my formulas, one big document. I called it the VSL Bible with all my formulas. And once I had studied those and I knew a lot about this. Right. I'm smart with my skill set now. yeah um then i look at look at the puzzle pieces that i have right i look at the mechanism i look at the story the the founder story how he invented this fucking thing how all this came true and i take this and i go what formula do i think this would work best for right what do i like the most and then i look at all of my sales formulas of winning stuff and i see what can i What can I model? Which winning campaign should I reverse engineer to sell this product? And that's freaking it, right? I pick one that I think is great. And then I start sentence by sentence, rewriting each sentence for this product, right? Following their sales formula. Got it. If you do that, I think, I mean, the main variable here that I think is the selection. of the unique mechanism, right? Because if you're getting like the copy almost like the same length, the same structure that is already working right now, why it would not work for you? The only reason is the selection of the unique mechanism. Do you have more tips to do that? Because you said that people need to, it needs to be something that clicks on people's mind. But for some people, maybe this is kind of hard to actually find this. Do you have any tips that maybe you can share to help improve, like finding these unique mechanisms? Or do you think that it's best to, I don't know, maybe just grab a unique mechanism from the market, then take this unique mechanism that you already found that is working, then put in another VSL formula that you think might work too, then create a new thing out of things that are already working right now. Yeah. So finding new unique mechanisms is definitely the most trailblazer thing you could do in this industry, right? At the highest level, when you have a, you've had big campaigns under your belt, then your mission is to go find breakthrough shit. That's coming out new inventions. Your mission is to be reaching out to manufacturers and looking for brand new, exciting things that they discovered, right? You go to China. And you look for brand new breakthroughs that people make and go to these fucking product events and stuff like that. You are showing up to trade shows and you're looking for any sort of supplement breakthrough, big thing that fucking happened. And you're looking to be a future focused leader who's ahead of everyone else who's out there looking for mechanisms. And you look for something that clicks in a big niche. And when you find that, you get the product made, you turn it into a VSL and you will be a future focused, leading badass entrepreneur. who is a gangster and has a VSL that beats everybody because you're selling new shit that no one's ever heard of before. Got it. But that is future focus. That's like at the highest level, that's what you're doing, right? When you're starting and you're just getting in the game, you should only be reverse-engineering winning campaigns. You should be looking for mechanisms that are already proven in the market. You should not be going out doing anything else but modeling winning stuff. Yeah, it's probably easier. I want to grab your opinion on something that I did here in Brazil. And yeah, I just want to see if you agree with that, if you think that's something that we can actually give a tip to the audience. So when I had my skincare company here in Brazil, I had actually the same ingredient that you guys had. It was the progerin stuff. I think the name of the ingredient was progerin. I think it was something like that. Progerin, yeah. Blocks progerin. Exactly. So I mean, that's one mechanism that I could do. I could just say, hey, you have this protein in your body. It is bad. You need to take it out. Then you will be able to renew your skin and become younger again. So I could do that. It was worth the test because it was working everywhere, so I could do it. But here in Brazil, collagen is really, really strong. So people really do believe that they have to take collagen so they can improve collagen on their skin. They really believe that. So since we have... this belief in the market, my thinking was, hey, what if I can link this progeline thing? Instead of using progeline, I can use it as a way to help, like, increase the collagen production on the skin. And then I say something like this, hey, I'm going to show you this new thing here. And this thing basically is the right way to renew collagen on your skin. Because if you take collagen supplements, it doesn't work because your stomach will digest it and everything. So the real way to renew collagen on the skin is to actually renew your cells because you have brand new cells that are already full of collagen. So it's like it's. It's already full. You don't need to put anything in there. And the way to renew your sales is to remove the progiling thing. And the way to do that is with progiling. So it's an argument a little bit bigger, but it's sold around 6 million USD, I think. That's a lot in Brazil. And yeah, so my thinking is that if I see that there's a root cause that people really believe, so they believe that they need to renew their college. They believe that. but they just could not find any solution that actually worked for them. So I can still say, hey, you were completely right. You have to do that. You just found the wrong way to do it. The right way is this one. Then I can point them to another way that maybe will get the job done. What do you think of this technique? Do you think it works? Or do you think it's better to just like find an actual new root cause? Something that they have no belief about, maybe they even don't know about, so they're like fresh about it. because in Brazil, I know that this already worked, but I don't know, like outside, maybe in the US or other places. What's your opinion about that? I mean, if you could figure out a root cause that makes sense, you 100% swing for it, right? Yeah. That's the thing, because when you're doing skincare, you know the person has wrinkles. You know they don't like their wrinkles. So you don't need to fucking invent anything new there, right? All there is to work on is a root cause of the problem. And the solution to that. Yeah. All there is to do is find a new way that this is the new reason why you have wrinkles. What's the new reason that you have wrinkles? Maybe it's this. Maybe it's that. And it has to be a good one. If you say it's sun, it's probably going to be annoying for them, right? Or whatever you sell sunblock. But. No, 100%. You should be looking for other reasons, root causes of the problem. And this is sometimes, this is like what you're doing with VSL variations. You're like testing a new root cause of the problem. I had the biggest lesson with this when I was doing pain relief products, right? Because people, I knew people had pain or whatever. I knew they wanted to get rid of it, but I was testing ways that you could solve it. And I was testing this yoga mat that had acupuncture points on the back of it and it didn't really convert. And then I was testing like, um pain relief patches that would like shock your nervous nerves and block your nerves from firing it off and then i did these foot insoles that had acupuncture points on the feet and it and it poked the bottom of your feet and that caused you relief pain and what i'm doing there is switching how i solve your problem right three different products because a lot of times if you change the mechanism you you have to change the product because that mech the product is what delivers the mechanism yeah of course but it was the foot insoles that exploded right people didn't give a fuck about laying down on the mat the pain relief patch was kind of cool but the second i said push on the bottom of your feet it just banged all of a sudden so i was like oh my god how how you tell people you'll solve their problem is everything yeah that's really interesting and it's actually very unpredictable because you can never know right you just know if you test it that's the only way to know if the message will actually work okay you Thank you so much for this process. I think it was very valuable. But how do you actually create the ads? Because now we have the VSL, but we actually need the ads to run for it, right? Actually, I saw the ads from Mindvalley. It's crazy. I think they are so, like, indirect. They're very, like, low on promise. They start by telling a story. What do you think about that? How's your process for writing ads? Right. So to create the leads that inspire someone to watch your VSL to the very end, there's a couple of things that I do. One is I like to have spokespeople because a lot of times the authority figure isn't able to jump on the camera and do these other things. So I have, I hire like actresses on the company called backstage.com, which is like a bunch of actresses and stuff like that. And I would just write 20 different leads. I have a process called the lead Bible. where I'm rewriting. Same thing I just said with VSLs. It works with leads. You rewrite winning leads. You find different angles that would be fitting with your product. And I would just rewrite them and then have a spokesperson say it. That's the biggest one. And you're just coming up with different types of leads, whether they're stories or they're value leads. So like, hey, eat blueberries. It's good for your skin. But you know what else is good for your skin? What this dermatologist is about to say. Watch the video, right? That kind of shit, right? Hey, don't go outside and burn your face in the sun. But you know what else you need to know if you don't want to get ugly? You want to listen to this dermatologist, watch the video, right? Like that kind of stuff. And then there's questions and comparison angles and story angles and all different types of angles. So getting up to speed on what all those angles are and then just rewriting them over and over again. Yeah. I think it's pretty like interesting the way that you create the message because since you're using... like things that are working right now, your chance of failure decreases a lot because you get most things like already validated by the market. So if you don't want to go wrong, if you want to go like for, I don't know, maybe fast win, I think that's the best way for sure. So thank you for that. Got it. Also, when you optimize the VSLs, do you think that there are some high leverage points that people should test when they want to increase conversions? Because sometimes what happens is, I mean, you probably saw that a lot of times is that you put your VSL to work and then it sells a lot and it stops working. And then after some months, maybe it doesn't even work at all. So if you spend money, you will not get a return on it. Do you have... have like a framework for testing maybe i don't know testing the lid or the other stuff or how do you see this yeah so you always want to start at the beginning of the video when you're optimizing a video yeah because That's the first place to start. Everyone's watching your watching your video. I mean, what's the drop off rate in the first three seconds? What's the drop off rate in the first 15 seconds? The second your job is to hook people in as long as possible. And whether or not they stay is whether or not whether how good your video is. So you start with just optimizing the beginning, making 20 different versions of the beginning, making 20 different versions of the first three seconds, like with weird visuals to hook people in or whatever. I remember at Mindvalley, we cracked this hook that was, why are some people blessed by luck when others are not so lucky? That was our first two seconds or whatever. And that was a really cool hook because it allowed us to make a bunch of different images of like somebody getting hit by a goat or something weird. Some bad luck happens to this guy and this other lady like wins the lottery or whatever. So we have endless different. clickbait kind of interesting videos to use with that one sentence, why are some people blessed by luck, others not so lucky? Really cool question. So optimizing the beginning of it all and then moving along to the VSL as that comes along. So it's just front to back. That's actually the value proposition of VTurb. I don't know if you know it, but for example, we have lots of features that will actually improve the beginning of a VSL. We have one called Hooks. that once you all you have to do is go to vterb then you put some headlines in there then you activate it then every time that your vsl loads a different headline will appear above it oh yeah and then we'll keep changing it to see which headline actually sells more so all you have to do is put the headlines there and run the traffic so yeah guys i can tell you i can tell you for saying that these like first few touch points especially headlines creatives the autoplay image the one that says, hey, click here, the background video, the one that appears on the back of the autoplay image, all these are huge variables. And I have seen people double their conversions just by switching these variables. So it's crazy how like these little amounts of effort on the right spot can get you a huge result when it comes to sales. So, Peter, I would like to ask the last question of this podcast, which is, since you're working right now with Genius AI, what do you think that... Is the biggest value that you provide to the direct response community and how Brazilians would benefit from your platform? Because the truth is that I don't know if people here, they know the platform a lot. I don't know anyone that is using here in Brazil, at least for the moment. So what do you think that you guys can do? Why people should use it? Yeah, so we're about to be really big in Brazil, which is super thankful, right? So we started out with VSL.ai, which is a very direct response focus, and then we pivoted to Genius, which was more for people who kind of do free traffic. And since then, we've cracked some really cool features, which has allowed us to launch with ClickBank, for example. We just launched with ClickBank last week, last Friday, a few days ago. So we have partnered with ClickBank and have built a version of Genius that has all of ClickBank's products preloaded. And we're doing the same thing with Digistore and MaxWeb and BuyGoods. So pretty much everyone who every VSL company right now network that has VSL offers affiliates can run. We have an AI that is trained on all the offers they have to run and specifically designed to help them create leads. So this is what's really cool, because anyone who heard about Genius but hasn't tried it in the last week or so is about to get a brand new version at a. discounted price. It used to be $99 a month. Now it's only $19 a month, thanks to the influx of users that we've been able to get for these big launches. So very mass market. Anyone can do it, especially in Brazil. I know that MaxWeb, I think, or maybe it was ByGood was big in Brazil. Who's the biggest in Brazil? Well... I think none of them, to be honest. By Goods did an event here. I think maybe the biggest is called Cart Panda, which is Brazilian. But all these networks, they are starting to enter Brazil. So like, for example, I have a party from ClickBank, I think next week or something, in Sao Paulo. So I'll probably go there. But yeah, if you guys want to come here and want to do some partnerships with Vitor, not only you from Genius, but all these guys from By Goods and Digital in ClickBank, just talk to us. Brazil is open. I can help you guys. Cool. Yeah. So it's an AI that is specifically designed to write leads and angles, help you come up with angles for your affiliate VSL offers. So you select whatever product you want to sell. You select your call to action. Like, hey, I want you to I want someone to click my link and watch the video on the next page. And then Genius.ai will help generate. Over 30 different angles for your specific offer, depending just based off of the lead Bible that we put together. I put everything that I learned from VSLs and I put it into this tool and then it'll rewrite winning leads for you in one click in the background. So I select any one of these leads and bam, it rewrites it for us. So super cool. It makes your job really easy. There's like a teleprompter video button. So you can all of a sudden be making a video if you wanted to. Teleprompter pops up on your phone. We have a. an AI video generator tool now. So you click a button and it'll make the VSL for you. That's awesome. And it just makes your life super, super easy and ClickBank people and digital people are loving it. That's awesome. So from what I understood, you actually need to input your VSL there, then the AI will read the VSL, and then it can create leads and ads for this VSL. Is that right? So the best way to do it, if you go through one of our partners, all of their offers would be already trained inside of the AI. But if you wanted to upload your own VSL offer, all you would have to do is paste in the transcription of your VSL or paste in the link to your website or your text sales letter so that it can scan all the copy and then connect all the dots here to help help you sell got it awesome and how do you think that people can get started is there a website is there an instagram page or i don't know yeah just go to genius.ai all right genius genius.ai if you want a secret there is uh There's special partner discounted pricing that you can find on either through ClickBank or through MaxWeb or through Digistore24. And you'll find a much heavier discounted pricing all the way down to $19 a month. But you got to look for that one. They're kind of hidden. But I'll put these guys on adventures to go find it. Okay. That's awesome. So, guys, it will appear on the screen right now, Genius.ai, if you want to create more leads, more ads for your VSLs. And as you probably know, it's a huge leverage point. If you get the lead right, you can maybe double, sometimes triple your conversions. And especially the ad. There's one guy in Brazil, there's a podcast with him called Alexandre, it appears on the screen. His offer was not converting at all. Then he created a new ad and a new lead. He hired like a Brazilian actress or something. And then he started doing around 200,000 USD per day. just by changing this ad and this lead. So it's one of the biggest success stories that we have when it comes to just changing ads and leads. But yeah, so Peter, I'd like to thank you so much for your time. And I hope, did you enjoy the podcast? What do you think about it? This is great, man. Loved it. Loved being on here. You actually-I love the Hardcore VSL podcast. Awesome. Did you actually understood my English? Is that okay for you? Oh, yeah, great English. Yes, great. Yeah, actually, I need to improve a little bit because maybe next year I'll focus on the United States probably. And then, yeah, I want to interview more people. I already interviewed you, Jason Flatland, Stefan Georgi, and one guy called Jared from TNT Media. He's like a huge media buyer there or something. Yeah, he's nice. But yeah, next year I'll probably go to the US to record it live. I think it will be better. But yeah, so for the people that want to like... get in contact with you and follow you what's the best place to do it on instagram yeah go to instagram slash peter kell or go to peterkell.com that's the best way to find me okay so it will appear on the screen uh all his like social networks you can find peter there thank you so much for your time and i hope you enjoy the podcast bye thanks for having me on this was another episode of the secrets of the scale i hope you enjoyed it with peter kell And if you're looking for more episodes to watch, man, I'll leave two episodes here, it's somewhere here on the screen, do the secret of the scale for you to see. So click there, see them, watch them too, it's worth it. Big hug and see you later.

Today, he is the director of VSLs at Mindvalley, the largest VSL advertiser in the world. I think one of the best identities you could have if you were a VSL guy is to be a VSL artist. Like, you're just fucking making art here. You are like a fucking artistic gangster.

Let's say that I hire you, like, some reason, like, I found, like, I don't know, a billion dollars and then I pay you to... write a VSL. What's the first step that you take? One of the most important parts of that is making sure that the root cause of the problem and the solution to that make a lot of sense.

Do you have any tips that maybe you can share to help improve like finding these unique mechanism? Right. So to create the leads that inspire someone to watch your VSL to the very end, there's a couple of things that I do. I select any one of these. leads and bam it rewrites it for us so super cool it makes your job really easy when you optimize the vsls do you think that there are some high leverage points that people should test when they're they want to increase conversion really cool question this is the deepest most effective that i've ever found and this is the reason that people get blocked it doesn't matter how good you get at the game if you're a magnet is facing the wrong way Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Secrets of the Scale podcast, which is the Vturb podcast.

If you don't know, Vturb is a 100% video hosting focused on video sales. Today, the biggest players in Brazil use Vturb in their video sales, such as G4 Educação, Novo Mercado, Escola do Perpétuo, Misha, and also outside of Brazil, such as Mindvalley, which is the largest infoproductor in the world. They make more than 1.5 billion reais a year. So if they trust Vturb, I think you should trust them too.

and do a test of VTURB in your operation, in your sales video. That's why I left a link where you will have 15% discount for two months. Here in the comments, just click there, create your account in VTURB, which will already be applied automatically, this discount in your account.

This is an incentive for you to be able to test VTURB, apply it in your business and increase the sales of your sales video as well, as well as the biggest players in the Brazilian market are doing, okay? And besides that, when you create your account, I will also give you a training called Optimizing Your Sales View, so that you can apply your sales view there and make it sell much more than it sells today with the classes we have there. But besides helping you to increase your conversion with VTurbo, we also have a podcast, Segredos da Escala, where I help you to increase your conversion in other ways, bringing content here from extremely qualified guests, so that you can get one, two, sometimes three tips there, if the podcast is good, apply it to your business and scale it too.

So, man, see the podcast there, I hope you like it and thanks! So Peter, thank you so much for being here. First of all, could you please tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do right now, what you have done just for the few people here in Brazil that don't know you and would like to know you better? Oh, yeah. So my name is Peter Kell, and I really love the idea of lifestyle design.

So how do you create the most epic life you could possibly imagine? That way you can have the most fun life you could possibly imagine and live life with no regrets at the end of the day. And very quickly, I was like, man, if I could get rich on the internet by an early age, that would be probably the best place to start making an epic life.

And after four years of struggling, I finally figured out that, you know, media buying and copywriting and creating video sales letters and making big campaigns on the internet was the fastest way to do that. I met some mentors that gave me the keys. So I spent about six and a half years ago. I decided that like just making the videos was the most valuable skill I could have video sales letters so I committed my life to mastering that skill set and that did give me the life I was after like just the cars and the girls and the lambos and all those things and now that eventually evolved into giving back and now creating AI tools so I own a company called genius.ai and we're making affiliate marketing and network marketing and direct sales easier for those who Don't have time to learn the skills and just want to get results.

That's kind of the fast shindig there. Awesome. And you're also a director of VSL at Mindvalley, right? Right. Yeah, that is a, I'm still a partner at the company, but I haven't been doing VSLs for them for a little over a year and a half now.

Got it. You know that they are actually Viterb clients, right? Or you don't know that? Why are you telling me that?

Congratulations. I'll get an idea. Yeah, that's cool. That's a very nice testimonial that I have there.

Man, I'm very curious. Who were these mentors that you just told me that gave you the keys to internet marketing success? Right.

So there are two guys. One of the guys name is Jason Applebaum. The other one's called John Fishburne. Jason's very loud on Instagram, Lambos, big houses, fun, crazy, flashy lifestyle.

And John is very secretive behind the scenes. He likes cruising around on boats and living on islands and getting soaking in the sun and stuff like that and being low key. And these guys just, you know, I convinced them over time through a mastermind that I had started to let me uh to teach me because i had tried starting all these businesses and i was just convinced that i was terrible at business and that all my stuff would fail you know seven companies in a row fail and you just gotta probably i don't want to do an eighth one so i was committed to how do i become an apprentice to a master and i was looking out looking for masters and these are the guys that i eventually found and convinced me convince them to let me join them got it do you think that's the best way to actually learn something to go Like spend your time trying to find a mentor that's going to teach you?

Or do you think that people should try to like do it yourself, maybe buy a copywriting course or read more books or stuff? How do you think is the best approach to get you to success faster? Well, if I had to start all over again, I would go straight head first towards finding a badass mentor and being on the right seat on the right bus.

Because in this game, What gets you the results are the skills. And unfortunately, watching courses and reading books doesn't actually get you skills, right? It gets you knowledge, but skills come from getting results. And, you know, at the end of the day, your results of like how much money did you make yesterday on the internet?

It's pretty much your skills, right? You can read a lot of books. That doesn't change how much money you made on the internet. You have to make a campaign, launch that thing on ads and get it profitable.

That is actual skills. While the other stuff is just knowledge in the air. So I had to get in the right seat in the right bus. And so do you. And so does everybody.

And that just means a place where they can practice and get the skill sets. And if they get mentors, they can be in a better coliseum to play the game than they could ever create on their own. So I'm a huge fan of doing whatever it takes, working for free for the right people or whatever to get yourself in the right seat on the right bus.

I actually, when I started my entrepreneurship journey, I actually worked for free. for a company here in Brazil called Empiricus, which is like Agora Financial, but here in Brazil. I was a copywriter there.

And it was pretty cool. I learned a lot. So yeah, I also agree with that.

Sometimes it's hard to find mentors because, well, you have to convince someone to actually teach you. Just buying cursors and reading books, you don't have to convince anyone. You just pay for it and it's okay. But since we're talking about how to get stuff...

that we want. I know that you're very big on this thing called manifesting, right? To be honest, I don't really know what it is. I studied a little bit about Maxwell Maltz in a book called Psycho-Cybernetics. I don't know if it's the same thing.

Could you please tell the audience here, also me, what is this thing called manifesting? Why is it important? Why are you so big on it? Why do you advocate so much for it? Right.

So manifesting is this idea that Sadly, on a deep down level, you are creating a reality with every thought and every piece of your imagination. And this is not something I really wanted to be interested in. This is just the last thing that I started doing before my life took off. And it has taken off multiple separate times, all using the principles of, you know, the law of attraction or the principles of manifestation, which is, again, is the images that you're holding in your mind are what's creating your reality.

And. Most people take for granted seriously this ability that they have. They have this like literal soul inside them that is able to move reality in ways they can't really comprehend and able to send out emotional boomerangs.

People believe in karma, right? This invisible force that if you do something bad, it bounces back to you like a boomerang. Karma is like a boomerang.

You do nice things that come back to you. Well, that boomerang. exists not just in good or bad things, but in all things you imagine and all emotions that you put out to the world.

So you're constantly getting things back to you that are either good or bad. There are ways that you can leverage this to, quote unquote, get really lucky and, quote unquote, have your life fall together and have all the stars align in your life. I found out that there was other things in the way of me being successful when I used to struggle and things that were not skill set related and things that were not self-sabotage related where my behaviors were off.

Right. It was like random things. It was almost like being a magnet, you know. that was faced the wrong way i get closer towards my goal but the second that i got really close to it it would bounce away from me invisible and invisible force would cause it to push away from me that's manifestation is understanding what the fuck that is and how to flip yourself so you attract these thing to you because if you don't flip the magnet you'll never get to it but it's it's enough you cannot it doesn't work right it doesn't you have to flip it Hey guys, before you continue here on the podcast, I just wanted to thank you here, because we managed to make progress, we decreased the number of people who are not subscribed here on the VTurbo channel.

This number today is at 59.2%, it will appear the print on the screen, and before it was 65%. So man, thank you, this is helping us to grow more here on our channel. Our goal here is to reach 50% of people who watch our videos being subscribed here on the channel. So if you haven't subscribed yet, man, click here below, subscribe here.

You don't lose anything with this, okay? Quite the opposite, you just have to win with this. Because the more subscribers you have to the channel, the more it grows. We can bring even bigger guests, which will have even better content, so that you can watch it.

So you don't lose anything with this, you just have to win. So, man, click here below, okay? Help us to reach the goal of reaching 50% of people who watch the channel as subscribers.

Thank you very much and have a good podcast. Do you think, I mean, have you read this book? Yes, that was a huge book for me.

So in this book, and there is also another book called The New Psycho-Cybernetics. It's actually a program by Dan Kennedy, which is a very respected marketer. I don't know if people in Brazil here, they know it, but if you don't know, it's going to appear on the screen right now.

Dan Kennedy searches books on Amazon. It's worth it. There he teaches two techniques.

The first one, it's called mental rehearsal, where you actually just close your eyes and you keep imagining what you're actually going to do. And you keep doing that until you feel like you got it and then it's okay. He says that if you just do that, you actually improve your skills on doing that thing just by imagining it because your brain cannot differentiate between the actual thing. between your imagination and reality. And there is also a second technique that the name is theater of the mind.

That's the one where you actually just imagine yourself looking at it and then like a theater. And craziest thing is that the year that I made my first million, I was actually using these techniques every day. Now, sadly, I think that I forgot about them, but yeah, I need to come back to them. But do you think that these techniques, they are good? They are worth it?

Do you think that we have more techniques for that? How do people get started in manifestation? Right.

So here's what happens. Here's why that technique works. And in Psycho-Cybernetics, that book is written by a plastic surgeon. Amazing book. And he doesn't really dive into any of the spirituality things behind it.

But what he is diving to is how it works in rehearsal and mental rehearsal and mentally visualizing how you would like things to go. And what it doesn't talk about, which some other books talk about, is the spiritual laws that that practice is invoking that causes this stuff to manifest that are greater and more powerful than just your imagination or your subconscious mind kicking on board. Right.

So one of the techniques, again, is mental rehearsal. Right. picturing things how you would like it to go.

Let's say you launch a campaign on Facebook or TikTok and it's not working and you get this negative experience, right? And you kind of feel bad or you do something in your business that doesn't work and you feel bad. Well, what this is telling you to do is, hey, let's just start picturing the moment where it works, where you're making the thousand dollars a day that you were looking for, that you were dreaming for, and you feel amazing. And you begin to work.

on imagining that this is happening. Because the problem is that when you launch something and it doesn't work and you feel bad, and you do this affirmation to yourself, this isn't working, right? This campaign is hard. Business is tough. You start saying this inner dialogue to yourself.

Well, Your whatever you believe is true at the root cause of your mind is what it will manifest into your reality. And currently what you're saying in your you're affirming and you're declaring your reality is, is this is hard. This doesn't work.

This isn't it. Right. And all of that turns you into a magnet for this being hard. This not working, this being bad. And the second that you get close to you having a winning campaign, you having a business that's working.

The other side of your life, right? A different version of your life where you're making $1,000 a day or whatever, and your business is booming, and your campaigns are taking off, and you're highly profitable, and it's so easy and effortless. The second that you get close to that life, you are an opposite magnet.

So you will push it away. You will do more than self-sabotage. Even if you force yourself to get there, the magnet will push you away eventually, and it will fall out of your hands, which is what happened to me.

So what mental rehearsal is doing... is even though your 3D reality says this stuff isn't working, you are going to start picturing and visualizing, I am so happy and grateful now that I'm making $1,000 a day, now that my campaigns are amazing, now that my audience is easily and instantly able to recognize the value of my product and buying that shit by the fucking boatload. This business is amazing.

It's fucking dope. And I'm super rich. I'm fucking balling out of control.

I make 50 grand every day. Out easily and consistently. It's unbelievable, right? You're putting out this opposite energy and you're imagining each scenario in your life. And that turns you into a positive emotional.

That is positive karma that you're sending out to the universe. Life is a game of boomerangs and this emotional boomerangs that you're sending out is what gets back to you. And that is the real secret. When you live from this energy, you will tune yourself in to the ideas that will get you. the results that you're looking for.

And you won't be suffering like everybody else in this, this isn't working, bad state, bad mentality, which is so easy to get caught into. But you must flip it in your mind if you want to flip it in your reality. Everything first starts in the heart. As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is, is the famous quote.

So you must get it real in your heart and in your subconscious and believe that this works. It's called having faith in God or faith in the universe or whatever. And this is like all over Think and Grow Rich. This is in psycho cybernetics. This is the deepest, most effective shit that I ever found.

And this is the reason that people get blocked. It doesn't matter how good you get at the game if you're a magnet is facing the wrong way. Yeah, yeah. You always got to switch it. That's so interesting that you just told all that because from my experience, I have studied a little bit about manifesting too, but only like the actual techniques.

I think I never read a book about the actual spiritual laws to talk about that. Could you recommend something here for me and also for the audience that people that want to go more to the spiritual side, some good book that I don't know, maybe they should read it? Yeah, I got one sitting right here.

There's one called Feeling is the Secret by Neville Goddard. Feeling is the Secret. Look how tiny it is.

It's a tiny little book. You can read it in one hour. Super easy.

There's also another book by Neville that's also tiny called The Power of Awareness, which I thought was on my desk, but apparently it's not on my desk. It's The Secret Power of Awareness. Got it. Power of Awareness. Phenomenal book.

And it just goes straight to the point about the laws of the universe and how you're creating your own reality and all those things. Awesome. And I found this book after... This book is how I manifested my deal with Mindvalley and my opportunity with Mindvalley. following this book specifically.

I'd lost all this money from losing, from selling my company and my skincare brand. And I started manifesting to get myself out of the situation. And I studied literally both these books, The Power of Awareness and Feeling is the Secret by Neville Goddard.

And I practiced it and it fucking works. Again, for like the dozenth time that manifesting has worked and saved myself in my life. So I'm a huge fan.

Yeah, I can see that. Well, thanks for all that, man. I think it's pretty valuable for me and also the audience.

Since we're talking about that, you said that you started this skincare company that you actually sold at the end of the day. So... When you can actually sell a direct response business, I think that's something very impressive because the truth is that most direct response business, they just want to sell stuff.

They don't care about the client. They just advertise it and then sell it and then that's it. And then the next day they need to go and sell to other clients. What do you think is the main difference?

your mindset and also the thing that you actually do to differentiate yourself and you don't just create like a cashflow business, but you create a good direct response business that maybe you can sell in the future. How did you do that? Right. So I think the root of it is, you know, I believe that God put me here for something more than just making money.

And my life is important and my life is valuable. And I don't want to spend fucking 60 years just making money month after month. That's all I care about.

That's my thing. So if you don't start a business that has potential for a high liquidity event, like an exit, then you are in a, you are in a hamster wheel that just runs. For as long as you run, right, it's most people build these cash flow businesses.

They're cash machines, right? If you're not selling a company, it's a cash machine, which is great. It can get you that amazing life, especially if you get your first 10 grand a month and then 50 and then 100, then 200. And then if you get really phenomenal, you can max it out. Now I want to say max it out, but you can get a million dollars a month. I know some guys do even beyond that, right?

Yeah. So that at the end of the day, though, is still a hamster wheel. if you're not doing it on something that has high enterprise value. So this is one of the big lessons that I learned because I was a big affiliate.

I did millions of dollars in sales as an affiliate, but I didn't have anything that it just, there was no enterprise value. It was worth nothing. The traffic stops, my business is zero, right? And then I start to realize, wow, if I did all of the sales on something that I owned, that was nice, I would get a multiple on this. Someone would want to buy this from me.

But if it was a dropshipping company, that would also be worth. nothing but it's called all the customers were pissed so if you're gonna start focusing on optimizing your enterprise value that let's fucking do it let's optimize it let's make an amazing brand with an amazing product with a real dermatologist with real professional stuff with fast shipping times let's let's let's do this let's make a lot of sales millions of dollars on sales but let's do it on something that's worth a lot of money yeah because then you can get an exit and then why all your friends are still working You've moved on to a bigger, more important part of your life. Awesome.

Just to give you some context, I also did the exact same thing here in Brazil. I had like a Brazilian golden hippo. Let's say I have like 70 people, employees that were working for us. We also had a skincare brand that we had around 4,000 subscriptions. So it was pretty cool.

But at the end of the day, I just decided to stop it. I did not sell it. Then I created VTurb, which now has enterprise value.

So I think that I was one of the first here in Brazil to actually create a direct response business that was more like legit, not just selling. Yeah. And yeah, so how do you think that the product... I mean, what's the importance of the product in this kind of business? And how do you actually create a good product?

Because you say that you went to a dermatologist, so maybe he or she was creating or he, I don't know, was creating the formula. How does this process work? And how do you think that someone that is doing... Like just a cash flow business can transition from cash flow to actually building something more long term with equity.

Yes. So my story was I was an affiliate marketer. I finally found a campaign that blew up selling skincare products.

And then the guy I was working with wanted me to pause my Facebook campaign because he wanted to take it or whatever. And that really frustrated us. So I had a campaign I knew was working.

And that skincare product has ingredients I knew were selling very well. The unique mechanism was amazing. Yeah.

So I was a sales VSL master, but I wasn't a product creation master. I had no idea how to do this. I was like, what do I hire scientists and like freaking start asking them to put stuff in bottles and shake them around and stuff. I don't understand. But no, it turns out that there are manufacturing companies that already have scientists on staff and already shook the bottles for you and you can just work with them.

Yeah. But again, even that was too complicated for me. So what happened was I realized, listen, you should only be a master of one thing.

I'm a master of VSLs. I'm going to stay a master of VSLs. I have to find somebody who can run this part of the business for me and execute this for me. That's what a team does.

I handle this thing. You handle that thing. And I had found this friend.

I had this friend who owned an e-commerce business selling pillows that I had sold a lot of his pillows. They blew up. So I was like, hey, bro, pillows suck.

You should come work with us. And then when I got him on the team, he knew instantly how to do it all. He knew instantly what manufacturers to go look for, who could recreate this product with great ingredients and great boxes and great packaging and all that stuff and fast shipping times. And he got it all done for me effortless.

So how do you do it is the same way you do anything. You find someone that knows how to do it. Yeah.

Essentially, that's your job. Find someone who knows how to do it. Yeah. And then you stay doing what you're doing. Of course.

At the end of the day, you as the entrepreneur, you have the responsibility to actually get shit done. And if you don't know it, man, just hire someone. Just figure it out.

Just do it. That's it. Yeah. But now you have this experience with software, right? Where you create like genius AI, which is...

very different, I think, from a direct response business, at least from my experience. Man, I've been doing software right now. And Viterb, we have like thousands of clients here in Brazil. We are Brazilian based, but we also have lots of international clients.

Some of the biggest advertisers in the whole planet are using us. And I never spent one dollar on ads, at least outside Brazil. And for the first two years of Viterb, I never spent one dollar on ads.

It was just through word of mouth. And what has it been like having this new experience in another business model? Are you having to reinvent yourself?

Because as a VSL master, I don't know if you're applying VSLs to Genius AI. How's your experience with this new company, with this new business model? Yeah, so I decided to have a complete identity transformation. I had gotten to the top of the VSL game.

And I... I was too young not to keep growing. I'm too young not to feel like I have a lot more ahead of me with life. But I didn't feel like there was monstrous improvements I could make in the VSL world anymore.

Sure, there was like other moves I could make, but I wasn't super inspired to do them. So I wanted to pivot and find a new skill set that I could be great at. And I found AI product development. That was it.

I want to make, invent, create new epic products that is used by hundreds of thousands of people. And. Because it's also the same thing. I'm also optimizing for enterprise value.

Like, what can I do that is super fun, but also makes me more money than I've ever made in my whole life? Because why not? Why would you do anything but try to make the most money you've made in your whole life?

Yeah. And AI product creation was kind of it. Now, it's definitely a challenge. It's definitely highly expensive, right?

It takes a lot of money to be building software tech all day long and having teams run. And just like you, we started out with ads at the beginning, but then we paused it. And we just did product development.

We were just going to build Epic products and do B2B, which is like just emailing leaders at big corporations to ask them if they want to use this and push it out to the people and just play that game for the whole time, which is just a totally different game. I don't think it's as nuclear as cracking a big advertising campaign is, but what's more fun for me is still building this. And then, of course, the enterprise value on an AI company or a software company is crazy when you get people hooked on it. Yeah, if it works, it's amazing.

At least that's my bet for Viterb. I hope I can grow it to be the biggest in the world and then maybe sell it. I don't know. Let's see. I probably can.

I hope so, man. If you want to buy, let me know. Bye. Valeu e bom podcast.

And also, so since you're like the master of the VSL, let's get into the VSLs. I think that's what people really want to know. So what's the first thing that you do when you're going to create a VSL?

Let's say, hey, Peter, let's say that I hire you. like some reason, like I found a, like, I don't know, a billion dollars and then I pay you to write a VSL for, for Vterb or for, I don't know, some skincare brand or anything. What's the first step that you take?

Yeah. So the first step that I take is, well, I want to know if it's a big enough niche, right? So if it's a niche that's assuming that this is a really big product in a niche that has proven to have lots of people buy stuff in this niche, the first thing you have to do is kind of gather your puzzle pieces, right?

At the end of the day. You've got to gather what problem is this solving? What emotional problems is this solving?

I kind of have a little spreadsheet that I would fill out. Like what's the root cause of the problem? What's the solution to that?

And get absolute crystal clarity on all of the puzzle pieces that I'm going to use to begin creating a VSL with, right? Like, no, what do I work with? One of the most important parts of that is making sure that the root cause of the problem and the solution to that make a lot of sense.

And that bridge is kind of built. You know, everybody who buys a product is Somebody who's in pain, there's this big gap in front of them. And on the other side of the gap is their happy life with all their problems solved.

Right. Yeah. And they need to believe that buying your shit, buying your product can help them cross that gap and get them to where they want to be. And they need to be able to kind of picture it in their mind and see how that could kind of work.

Yeah. And a lot of times people have, you know, unique mechanisms that kind of suck that aren't believable. Yeah.

Like I remember. This skincare brand that had like a plant-based stem cell that they found in an apple in Switzerland that'll make your stem cells suddenly start growing faster. So women who had thin, wrinkly, transparent skin, if you just fucking rub this stem cell shit on your arm, it'll make your stem cells grow skin cells faster and you'll have youth looking skin. I'm like, that just sounds like a bunch of bullshit, right? Yeah.

And market said it was bullshit. People didn't want to buy very much of it and it didn't scale. So you need to make sure that. Your mechanism makes a lot of sense in clicks.

And if you want to have something that's nuclear, then it has to be some new mechanism in most big niches. I mean, I would say in all big niches, the next big campaign involves a new mechanism, a new way of solving the root cause of the problem, a new profound discovery on what the true root cause of the problem is, which makes this other stuff work better. I say that's step one is getting your puzzle pieces in order and having them connect really well.

Yeah. So one question that I have about this is that, at least for me, when I'm writing, I'm also a copywriter. Just to let you know, I've been doing this for 10 years now. I sold around 50 million USD.

So, yeah, I mean, that's not a lot for United States standards. That's a lot for anybody, bro. Yeah. Here in Brazil, it's a lot. I can tell you that.

A lot. That's a lot. Yeah.

So when I'm writing for like health and health and beauty, also maybe relationships, maybe like languages, I always use this root cause argument. So, for example, for the for your skincare brand, from what I remember, you had that mechanism from the protein progerin, which stops the cellular renewal or something like that. I don't remember.

Yeah. And yeah, it's a pretty good mechanism. And but if I'm selling like a business opportunity, then I don't really use the root cause argument because I just like don't find a way to actually fit this kind of argument in this niche. Then what I do is that I first show them that there is something that they can do. Like, hey, if you do this, then you will get your benefit on the health niche, which will be like, hey, if you solve this problem, this root cause, you get the benefit.

And then on this opposite, hey, if you do this action, like if you. you sell info products, if you use genius AI, if you do this, that, or whatever, you will get, you will make money. And then the way to make money is through this unique mechanism. So my question is, do you use this root cause argument for every niche and does it always work? Or do you have like specific kinds of arguments for each niche that you're working on?

Listen, this definitely doesn't work at every single niche. That's the thing about VSLs is like, It's not like when you ascend to the top of the VSL world, you are suddenly a grandmaster who could write amazing, amazing VSLs. It's not really like that.

It's more like you just made so many fucking campaigns and a few of them exploded really big and are happen to be some of the biggest in the world now. But you're still like, I barely know what I'm doing, bro. Like half these half these niches like just don't work.

That doesn't work. I thought that like the vast majority of my ideas don't work. Yeah.

So it's not like I'm like coming at this like Mr. Genius here. huge i'm just like swinging as hard as i can and then something hits eventually got it and then i'm famous all of a sudden it's like what the hell right but it's like the reality is like i don't know dude i think this let's just try doing that i don't fucking know yeah the root cause argument i mean it probably always works man at least here in brazil is the most famous people are people have been using that for years now you So yeah, but that's also the first thing that I do. I try to find this unique mechanism.

And then what's the second thing that you do? Then you write maybe the offer or you go to the lead or how's your process? Oh, I got the swipes. Swipes are next, right? So every VSL artist's homework.

And by the way, I think one of the best identities you could have if you were a VSL guy is to be a VSL artist. Like you're just fucking making art here. You are like a fucking artistic gangster.

Why do you call that VSL artist? What's the idea behind it? I like this. Well, if I think I'm a copywriter, I don't vibe with it, right? I don't vibe with identity.

Um, but artists is like, bro, you are doing fucking dope shit here. Like you are painting every single fucking sentence. You are dialing everything in to be amazing.

It's like an art. It's like a piece of art. You know, your little script here that you put together. That's so cool.

It's beautiful. It makes you look at what you do, like just super cool. And it's fucking beautiful work that you're putting together and you're very proud of it and you're stoked about it.

And if it works or not, whatever, but, and you're, you're dissecting all parts of your VSL to improve the way that. what you're showing people, all these different pieces. You're creating an art video that you're very proud of. So I personally like that frame, how to become a world-class VSL artist, right?

I'm a world-class VSL artist. That's one of the best identities I think you could plant. Yeah. So people, hey guys, right now, you're not corporates anymore.

You need to see yourself as VSL artists. You need to start manifesting that. It's fucking cool, right?

Just start saying, I am a world-class. VSL artist. I am the greatest VSL artist of all time. Just start saying that to yourself over and over again for the rest of your life, just to see what happens. Yeah.

Just in case. Right. So part of your homework.

Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say part of their homework as being a VSL artist is you have to digest VSLs every morning, right? You have to go find the biggest campaigns on the internet.

You need to get the transcript for the VSL. And you need to break it down scene by scene, scene by scene. This becomes your favorite thing to do because it's like watching fucking, it's like watching your favorite sports athlete play a fucking game, right?

Who doesn't like watching LeBron James fucking slam a dunk, right? Yeah. That's what you're doing.

But we do that through other people's transcripts and copywriting and looking at the VSL they wrote and breaking it down scene by scene, watching what they did. Watching the fucking moves they made. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right? Yeah.

Do you think that this also works for not only VSLs, but like old sales letters, like direct mail, bookalogs, megalogs, that kind of stuff? Yes. 100%.

Everything that has ever sold anything is a sales formula. Yeah. Right? They're all formulas. It's all like when I said the nightmare story and went in with the discovery and hooked them with the seven open loops and then it's like, bro, that's a strategy to hook people in that is effective and you know it works.

It's proven. It's a proven golden map to the treasure, right? There's a good way to look at it, right? Fucking LeBron James did this fucking move and then he slammed dunk.

I'm going to learn that move. I'm going to study that move. I'm going to practice that move.

That's kind of the way you want to be looking at it. Got it. Yeah. So after you have all like, I mean, you thought about your mechanism, then you have like a real, I mean, a new root cause that you can present to the market, also a unique solution that will solve it. And then you have also the swipes of what is working right now.

So, you know, hey, this kind of angle is working, like with this format, this amount of words, this length of VSL. What's your next step? Right. So after you've done your homework, which is study the biggest campaigns in the world, I would probably just collect. I mean, I used to collect like 20 of them.

Right. I would have 12 of them that I would put in my own little VSL Bible. And this is like one spot with all of my formulas, one big document. I called it the VSL Bible with all my formulas.

And once I had studied those and I knew a lot about this. Right. I'm smart with my skill set now. yeah um then i look at look at the puzzle pieces that i have right i look at the mechanism i look at the story the the founder story how he invented this fucking thing how all this came true and i take this and i go what formula do i think this would work best for right what do i like the most and then i look at all of my sales formulas of winning stuff and i see what can i What can I model?

Which winning campaign should I reverse engineer to sell this product? And that's freaking it, right? I pick one that I think is great. And then I start sentence by sentence, rewriting each sentence for this product, right?

Following their sales formula. Got it. If you do that, I think, I mean, the main variable here that I think is the selection.

of the unique mechanism, right? Because if you're getting like the copy almost like the same length, the same structure that is already working right now, why it would not work for you? The only reason is the selection of the unique mechanism.

Do you have more tips to do that? Because you said that people need to, it needs to be something that clicks on people's mind. But for some people, maybe this is kind of hard to actually find this. Do you have any tips that maybe you can share to help improve, like finding these unique mechanisms?

Or do you think that it's best to, I don't know, maybe just grab a unique mechanism from the market, then take this unique mechanism that you already found that is working, then put in another VSL formula that you think might work too, then create a new thing out of things that are already working right now. Yeah. So finding new unique mechanisms is definitely the most trailblazer thing you could do in this industry, right? At the highest level, when you have a, you've had big campaigns under your belt, then your mission is to go find breakthrough shit. That's coming out new inventions.

Your mission is to be reaching out to manufacturers and looking for brand new, exciting things that they discovered, right? You go to China. And you look for brand new breakthroughs that people make and go to these fucking product events and stuff like that.

You are showing up to trade shows and you're looking for any sort of supplement breakthrough, big thing that fucking happened. And you're looking to be a future focused leader who's ahead of everyone else who's out there looking for mechanisms. And you look for something that clicks in a big niche. And when you find that, you get the product made, you turn it into a VSL and you will be a future focused, leading badass entrepreneur.

who is a gangster and has a VSL that beats everybody because you're selling new shit that no one's ever heard of before. Got it. But that is future focus. That's like at the highest level, that's what you're doing, right?

When you're starting and you're just getting in the game, you should only be reverse-engineering winning campaigns. You should be looking for mechanisms that are already proven in the market. You should not be going out doing anything else but modeling winning stuff.

Yeah, it's probably easier. I want to grab your opinion on something that I did here in Brazil. And yeah, I just want to see if you agree with that, if you think that's something that we can actually give a tip to the audience.

So when I had my skincare company here in Brazil, I had actually the same ingredient that you guys had. It was the progerin stuff. I think the name of the ingredient was progerin.

I think it was something like that. Progerin, yeah. Blocks progerin.

Exactly. So I mean, that's one mechanism that I could do. I could just say, hey, you have this protein in your body. It is bad. You need to take it out.

Then you will be able to renew your skin and become younger again. So I could do that. It was worth the test because it was working everywhere, so I could do it. But here in Brazil, collagen is really, really strong. So people really do believe that they have to take collagen so they can improve collagen on their skin.

They really believe that. So since we have... this belief in the market, my thinking was, hey, what if I can link this progeline thing?

Instead of using progeline, I can use it as a way to help, like, increase the collagen production on the skin. And then I say something like this, hey, I'm going to show you this new thing here. And this thing basically is the right way to renew collagen on your skin.

Because if you take collagen supplements, it doesn't work because your stomach will digest it and everything. So the real way to renew collagen on the skin is to actually renew your cells because you have brand new cells that are already full of collagen. So it's like it's. It's already full. You don't need to put anything in there.

And the way to renew your sales is to remove the progiling thing. And the way to do that is with progiling. So it's an argument a little bit bigger, but it's sold around 6 million USD, I think. That's a lot in Brazil.

And yeah, so my thinking is that if I see that there's a root cause that people really believe, so they believe that they need to renew their college. They believe that. but they just could not find any solution that actually worked for them. So I can still say, hey, you were completely right.

You have to do that. You just found the wrong way to do it. The right way is this one. Then I can point them to another way that maybe will get the job done.

What do you think of this technique? Do you think it works? Or do you think it's better to just like find an actual new root cause? Something that they have no belief about, maybe they even don't know about, so they're like fresh about it.

because in Brazil, I know that this already worked, but I don't know, like outside, maybe in the US or other places. What's your opinion about that? I mean, if you could figure out a root cause that makes sense, you 100% swing for it, right?

Yeah. That's the thing, because when you're doing skincare, you know the person has wrinkles. You know they don't like their wrinkles. So you don't need to fucking invent anything new there, right?

All there is to work on is a root cause of the problem. And the solution to that. Yeah.

All there is to do is find a new way that this is the new reason why you have wrinkles. What's the new reason that you have wrinkles? Maybe it's this. Maybe it's that. And it has to be a good one.

If you say it's sun, it's probably going to be annoying for them, right? Or whatever you sell sunblock. But. No, 100%. You should be looking for other reasons, root causes of the problem.

And this is sometimes, this is like what you're doing with VSL variations. You're like testing a new root cause of the problem. I had the biggest lesson with this when I was doing pain relief products, right?

Because people, I knew people had pain or whatever. I knew they wanted to get rid of it, but I was testing ways that you could solve it. And I was testing this yoga mat that had acupuncture points on the back of it and it didn't really convert. And then I was testing like, um pain relief patches that would like shock your nervous nerves and block your nerves from firing it off and then i did these foot insoles that had acupuncture points on the feet and it and it poked the bottom of your feet and that caused you relief pain and what i'm doing there is switching how i solve your problem right three different products because a lot of times if you change the mechanism you you have to change the product because that mech the product is what delivers the mechanism yeah of course but it was the foot insoles that exploded right people didn't give a fuck about laying down on the mat the pain relief patch was kind of cool but the second i said push on the bottom of your feet it just banged all of a sudden so i was like oh my god how how you tell people you'll solve their problem is everything yeah that's really interesting and it's actually very unpredictable because you can never know right you just know if you test it that's the only way to know if the message will actually work okay you Thank you so much for this process.

I think it was very valuable. But how do you actually create the ads? Because now we have the VSL, but we actually need the ads to run for it, right? Actually, I saw the ads from Mindvalley.

It's crazy. I think they are so, like, indirect. They're very, like, low on promise.

They start by telling a story. What do you think about that? How's your process for writing ads?

Right. So to create the leads that inspire someone to watch your VSL to the very end, there's a couple of things that I do. One is I like to have spokespeople because a lot of times the authority figure isn't able to jump on the camera and do these other things. So I have, I hire like actresses on the company called backstage.com, which is like a bunch of actresses and stuff like that.

And I would just write 20 different leads. I have a process called the lead Bible. where I'm rewriting. Same thing I just said with VSLs. It works with leads.

You rewrite winning leads. You find different angles that would be fitting with your product. And I would just rewrite them and then have a spokesperson say it.

That's the biggest one. And you're just coming up with different types of leads, whether they're stories or they're value leads. So like, hey, eat blueberries.

It's good for your skin. But you know what else is good for your skin? What this dermatologist is about to say. Watch the video, right? That kind of shit, right?

Hey, don't go outside and burn your face in the sun. But you know what else you need to know if you don't want to get ugly? You want to listen to this dermatologist, watch the video, right?

Like that kind of stuff. And then there's questions and comparison angles and story angles and all different types of angles. So getting up to speed on what all those angles are and then just rewriting them over and over again. Yeah. I think it's pretty like interesting the way that you create the message because since you're using...

like things that are working right now, your chance of failure decreases a lot because you get most things like already validated by the market. So if you don't want to go wrong, if you want to go like for, I don't know, maybe fast win, I think that's the best way for sure. So thank you for that. Got it. Also, when you optimize the VSLs, do you think that there are some high leverage points that people should test when they want to increase conversions?

Because sometimes what happens is, I mean, you probably saw that a lot of times is that you put your VSL to work and then it sells a lot and it stops working. And then after some months, maybe it doesn't even work at all. So if you spend money, you will not get a return on it.

Do you have... have like a framework for testing maybe i don't know testing the lid or the other stuff or how do you see this yeah so you always want to start at the beginning of the video when you're optimizing a video yeah because That's the first place to start. Everyone's watching your watching your video.

I mean, what's the drop off rate in the first three seconds? What's the drop off rate in the first 15 seconds? The second your job is to hook people in as long as possible.

And whether or not they stay is whether or not whether how good your video is. So you start with just optimizing the beginning, making 20 different versions of the beginning, making 20 different versions of the first three seconds, like with weird visuals to hook people in or whatever. I remember at Mindvalley, we cracked this hook that was, why are some people blessed by luck when others are not so lucky?

That was our first two seconds or whatever. And that was a really cool hook because it allowed us to make a bunch of different images of like somebody getting hit by a goat or something weird. Some bad luck happens to this guy and this other lady like wins the lottery or whatever. So we have endless different. clickbait kind of interesting videos to use with that one sentence, why are some people blessed by luck, others not so lucky?

Really cool question. So optimizing the beginning of it all and then moving along to the VSL as that comes along. So it's just front to back. That's actually the value proposition of VTurb.

I don't know if you know it, but for example, we have lots of features that will actually improve the beginning of a VSL. We have one called Hooks. that once you all you have to do is go to vterb then you put some headlines in there then you activate it then every time that your vsl loads a different headline will appear above it oh yeah and then we'll keep changing it to see which headline actually sells more so all you have to do is put the headlines there and run the traffic so yeah guys i can tell you i can tell you for saying that these like first few touch points especially headlines creatives the autoplay image the one that says, hey, click here, the background video, the one that appears on the back of the autoplay image, all these are huge variables. And I have seen people double their conversions just by switching these variables. So it's crazy how like these little amounts of effort on the right spot can get you a huge result when it comes to sales.

So, Peter, I would like to ask the last question of this podcast, which is, since you're working right now with Genius AI, what do you think that... Is the biggest value that you provide to the direct response community and how Brazilians would benefit from your platform? Because the truth is that I don't know if people here, they know the platform a lot. I don't know anyone that is using here in Brazil, at least for the moment. So what do you think that you guys can do?

Why people should use it? Yeah, so we're about to be really big in Brazil, which is super thankful, right? So we started out with VSL.ai, which is a very direct response focus, and then we pivoted to Genius, which was more for people who kind of do free traffic.

And since then, we've cracked some really cool features, which has allowed us to launch with ClickBank, for example. We just launched with ClickBank last week, last Friday, a few days ago. So we have partnered with ClickBank and have built a version of Genius that has all of ClickBank's products preloaded.

And we're doing the same thing with Digistore and MaxWeb and BuyGoods. So pretty much everyone who every VSL company right now network that has VSL offers affiliates can run. We have an AI that is trained on all the offers they have to run and specifically designed to help them create leads.

So this is what's really cool, because anyone who heard about Genius but hasn't tried it in the last week or so is about to get a brand new version at a. discounted price. It used to be $99 a month. Now it's only $19 a month, thanks to the influx of users that we've been able to get for these big launches.

So very mass market. Anyone can do it, especially in Brazil. I know that MaxWeb, I think, or maybe it was ByGood was big in Brazil.

Who's the biggest in Brazil? Well... I think none of them, to be honest. By Goods did an event here. I think maybe the biggest is called Cart Panda, which is Brazilian.

But all these networks, they are starting to enter Brazil. So like, for example, I have a party from ClickBank, I think next week or something, in Sao Paulo. So I'll probably go there.

But yeah, if you guys want to come here and want to do some partnerships with Vitor, not only you from Genius, but all these guys from By Goods and Digital in ClickBank, just talk to us. Brazil is open. I can help you guys.

Cool. Yeah. So it's an AI that is specifically designed to write leads and angles, help you come up with angles for your affiliate VSL offers.

So you select whatever product you want to sell. You select your call to action. Like, hey, I want you to I want someone to click my link and watch the video on the next page.

And then Genius.ai will help generate. Over 30 different angles for your specific offer, depending just based off of the lead Bible that we put together. I put everything that I learned from VSLs and I put it into this tool and then it'll rewrite winning leads for you in one click in the background. So I select any one of these leads and bam, it rewrites it for us.

So super cool. It makes your job really easy. There's like a teleprompter video button.

So you can all of a sudden be making a video if you wanted to. Teleprompter pops up on your phone. We have a. an AI video generator tool now.

So you click a button and it'll make the VSL for you. That's awesome. And it just makes your life super, super easy and ClickBank people and digital people are loving it.

That's awesome. So from what I understood, you actually need to input your VSL there, then the AI will read the VSL, and then it can create leads and ads for this VSL. Is that right? So the best way to do it, if you go through one of our partners, all of their offers would be already trained inside of the AI. But if you wanted to upload your own VSL offer, all you would have to do is paste in the transcription of your VSL or paste in the link to your website or your text sales letter so that it can scan all the copy and then connect all the dots here to help help you sell got it awesome and how do you think that people can get started is there a website is there an instagram page or i don't know yeah just go to genius.ai all right genius genius.ai if you want a secret there is uh There's special partner discounted pricing that you can find on either through ClickBank or through MaxWeb or through Digistore24.

And you'll find a much heavier discounted pricing all the way down to $19 a month. But you got to look for that one. They're kind of hidden. But I'll put these guys on adventures to go find it.

Okay. That's awesome. So, guys, it will appear on the screen right now, Genius.ai, if you want to create more leads, more ads for your VSLs. And as you probably know, it's a huge leverage point.

If you get the lead right, you can maybe double, sometimes triple your conversions. And especially the ad. There's one guy in Brazil, there's a podcast with him called Alexandre, it appears on the screen.

His offer was not converting at all. Then he created a new ad and a new lead. He hired like a Brazilian actress or something. And then he started doing around 200,000 USD per day.

just by changing this ad and this lead. So it's one of the biggest success stories that we have when it comes to just changing ads and leads. But yeah, so Peter, I'd like to thank you so much for your time.

And I hope, did you enjoy the podcast? What do you think about it? This is great, man. Loved it.

Loved being on here. You actually-I love the Hardcore VSL podcast. Awesome.

Did you actually understood my English? Is that okay for you? Oh, yeah, great English.

Yes, great. Yeah, actually, I need to improve a little bit because maybe next year I'll focus on the United States probably. And then, yeah, I want to interview more people. I already interviewed you, Jason Flatland, Stefan Georgi, and one guy called Jared from TNT Media.

He's like a huge media buyer there or something. Yeah, he's nice. But yeah, next year I'll probably go to the US to record it live. I think it will be better.

But yeah, so for the people that want to like... get in contact with you and follow you what's the best place to do it on instagram yeah go to instagram slash peter kell or go to peterkell.com that's the best way to find me okay so it will appear on the screen uh all his like social networks you can find peter there thank you so much for your time and i hope you enjoy the podcast bye thanks for having me on this was another episode of the secrets of the scale i hope you enjoyed it with peter kell And if you're looking for more episodes to watch, man, I'll leave two episodes here, it's somewhere here on the screen, do the secret of the scale for you to see. So click there, see them, watch them too, it's worth it.

Big hug and see you later.

Transcript for:Insights from Peter Kell on VSLs

Transcript for:
Insights from Peter Kell on VSLs