Insights from Super Soul Sunday with Michael Singer

Today on Super Soul Sunday, I read his book, loved it, so I called him up. Michael Singer. Never done a television interview ever? Only for you. This is exciting. The elusive author of one of my new favorite books, The Untethered Soul, oh I can't wait until we all read it, it's by Michael Singer, is here to help us all find a greater sense of inner peace. By shutting down the voice that won't shut up. Come from a space of peace and you'll find that you can deal with anything. That's good, that's good. Did y'all get that? It's something he says he learned firsthand. We're indicted several years ago. Embroiled in a corporate scandal, investigated by the government. Were you innocent? Michael Singer was forced to face the ultimate test. I felt that God was reaching down. To pull whatever was left of my ego out. It's one of the most powerful spiritual lessons I've heard in a long time. You never said, oh God, why me? Oh my God, what's going to happen to me? Join me and Michael Singer for his candid and enlightening first television interview ever. That was a gift to me. Plus, we'll get down with a brand new short film from Soul Pancake. Super Soul Sunday starts right now. I wanted a place for people to go every Sunday. To wake up. Thought-provoking. Oh, you couldn't have said that better. Eye-opening and inspiring. This is my favorite thing to talk about. This will lift you right on up. It's food for your soul. Every single Sunday. This is Super Soul Sunday. Described by the media as intensely private, Michael Singer is known for two very different roles. He's the founder of a multi-million dollar software company and he's a spiritual author. I was first introduced to Michael through his beautiful little book called The Untethered Soul. It's by my bed stand right now. He writes about how he found inner peace and happiness and says any one of us can do it too. This is what's so exciting here on Super Soul Sunday. My guest today just told me he has never done television at all. I have not done television. Never done a television interview ever? Only for you. Only for me. Only because you asked. Otherwise, I say no every time I was invited. Well, let me just tell you how this came to be. Did I tell you this already, how this came to be? That I discovered your book. I had about six or seven girlfriends at my ranch in Maui. I have the... blessing of having a lovely ranch space in Maui. And for my birthday, at the end of this wonderful three or four days, someone handed me, Peggy Fitzsimmons, Left on the Kitchen Table, The Untethered Soul, this lovely book. I thought, oh, okay. And then I saw Deepak's notes, liner notes. Read this book carefully and you will get more than a glimpse of eternity. I like that. And the very idea of the untethered soul. So I thought, gee, what is that? The untethered soul. So I started reading it. First, part one is about awakening consciousness, which we've talked a lot about on The Oprah Show and did a 10-part series with Eckhart Tolle on the web back in 2008. And what I realized is that there are many paths in. to understand this way of consciousness. And you talk about, in the very first chapter, the voice in your head. And you described it in such great terms. I started reading. I didn't put the book down. Luckily, I had enough time on that particular day. And I've now shared it with I can't tell you how many people. and couldn't wait to be able to share it with everybody else. That's exciting. Yeah. So what is the voice inside our head? Well, there's something we listen to on a regular basis. The problem is we think it's us. So, for example, you look at a vase and it says, God, look, that's a very interesting shape, but I don't really like the color that much. It reminds me of my grandmother's vase. And all of a sudden we have somebody narrating and talking inside our head. That is not, that's not you. Yeah. Right? Those are all your thoughts about the vase. And more and more as I watch that, I realize it never shuts up, that it talks about everything, it judges everything, it thinks about everything. Right, right. In the early 70s, Michael Singer was a young economic student studying for his doctorate. Sitting with a friend one day, he noticed a lull in their conversation. And in that quiet little lull moment, he became aware of the thoughts that were running through his head. He realized that that voice, that incessant voice that expresses worries and doubts and anxieties was not really him. But he was the observer of the voice. That inner dialogue was an expression of his psyche. not his soul. And that was the beginning of his awakening. And that was my path. That was the beginning of my path. So what happened actually in that moment now that you can describe? I know Eckhart Tolle has said that that is the awareness, the voice, the awareness of the thoughts or the awareness of the voice inside your head is where consciousness resides. And that is who we really are. Yes. So that's what you came to. Yes. That was your open door. Yes. to the path to understanding yourself as a spiritual being inside a physical human body. With a mind. And isn't this the most important thing ever? Period. Period. Period. Bar none. None. This is the road to the spiritual path. Is to understand that you are a spiritual being. And the way to understand that you are a spiritual being is to know that you are not all of those thoughts. That's the key. Right? Because so far we can't say what you are. Because that's a thought, right? Right, that's a thought. Just, you know you're not the thought. Why? Because I'm watching it. Yes. You are there watching these thoughts. And sometimes people say to me, but which of those are me? None of them are you. You are the one who's watching. Okay, so I got this. I've shared this with you. I've heard it before. When I was in India, I got it really clearly. I mean, I'd understood it through Eckhart. I'd understood it through Transcendental Meditation. I really got it. I was in India earlier this year. And there was a yogi who was leading me in meditation. And... It was just the two of us. And he had me, he said, you know, close your eyes. And now I'm going to name different objects. And one was a red triangle and one was the moon and one was a, you know, a white picket fence or whatever, all these objects. And he said, you know, hold on to the object in your mind. And then when I named the next object, let it go. What I realized in that conscious moment was that that's what's happening all the time. Red triangles and picket fences and chairs and thoughts about everything are coming in and you can let those thoughts, I'm not good enough, I lost my job, I can't believe he left me, I can't believe my kids did it. They're thoughts. They're thoughts. They are not you. They're not you. So how do we begin to separate ourselves from the thoughts? That's the question. Right, and that's the key. What I love that you said is that really is the beginning of spirituality. That is. Is to separate. What you're not from what you are, if you don't do that, you're going to stay lost. The self is spiritual. The one who's watching is the gateway to spirituality. So if you continue to just get involved in the mind, in the thoughts of the mind, this true spiritual path doesn't take place. In The Untethered Soul, Michael Singer encourages us to ask ourselves the ultimate big question, who am I? And the other, what is that voice in my head? He says asking those questions is a key step toward spiritual development. So you ask this big wonderful question, who are you? Who are you? And the answer when I ask you that question is... At this stage of my growth, who I am, is the one who's in here, who notices the thoughts come up, who notices the emotions come out of the heart, and who sees whatever is in front of my senses. I am the seer. I am... The one who sees. The one who sees. The one who sees. Okay. And you also talk about the lucid self. Yes. What is the lucid self? The example we use in the book is that you can have a lucid dream in which some people know about that. Instead of you're lost in your dream, sometimes you know you're dreaming. Have you ever had one of those? Oh, I love it. Where you're aware that you're dreaming. Yeah. And then I've had them to the point where I say, I'm going to get out of this dream. That's beautiful. So you are then more conscious in that dream than you normally would be. Yes. Because you're awake. In a sense, you're awake within the dream. Yes. That is what the lucid self is. And now do that in your real life. That your mind is continuing. Life is following in front of you. But you are aware that your mind is moving, that the world is unfolding. But you are aware that your mind is moving. but your seat of consciousness is transcendent to that. It's centered at a deeper level. And all of it just goes right by, and you don't have the same relationship with it that you used to have. It's something you're watching, not something you are. Something you're watching, not something that you are. And I would say, and you just, I think, agreed with me, that for everybody who is seeking, who's seeking this path of opening themselves up to being able to live a deeper, more enriched life, life that understanding that concept is the most important thing. Period. That's it. Period. We'll be back with the other really good stuff. Really good in a moment. Coming up, the secret to finding joy and inner peace. Maybe it's not as hard as we all think. Isn't that why we're all here, to figure out how to do that? We make it hard, but it's actually very, very easy. And later, how Michael Singer and his spirit survived a corporate scandal. Were you innocent? Super Soul Sunday. We'll be right back. So if you're just joining us on Super Soul Sunday, there are a few books over the years, spiritual books by spiritual teachers that have really been staples for opening the heart space for me, which is how I define spirituality. And I would tell anybody who is looking for a more deepened, enriched, fulfilling life. And looking to change your perception of who you are and looking for miracles to occur regularly. This is the gift. I've given it to everybody, so I'm running out of people to give it to. So now I'm just sharing it with the world as I can. It's called the untethered soul. You say if you really want to grow, real spiritual growth happens when there's only one of you inside. There's not a part that's scared. and another part that's protecting the part that's scared. All parts are unified because there's no part of you that you're not willing to see. Yes. That's what being a whole person is, isn't it? Yes, that's integrity. That's true integrity. You're integrated as a being. Wow. Isn't that why we're all here, to figure out how to do that? Yes. Yeah. But it's easy. We make it hard, but it's actually very, very easy. I love this, too, for everybody who's on the spiritual path, opening up your heart. Once you've made the commitment to free yourself of that scared person inside, you'll notice that there's a clear decision point at which your growth takes place. You just notice something starts to change. Spiritual growth is about the point at which you start to feel your energy change. Yes. Yeah. So basically, an event is happening outside. You're talking to somebody, enjoying the conversation, and all of a sudden they say something that hits something inside of you, a soft spot, and your whole mind, your heart starts to close. Your mind starts to figure out why did they say that? Did I say something wrong? And you go south. You go somewhere, right? And you notice yourself starting to get involved in that reaction. And so at that moment, you have to decide, do I want to solve this? Does this need to be solved? And do I need to think about it? Or am I willing to just relax and let it pass? You're talking about that chapter, let go or fall? Yeah, that's right. Yes. Because when something comes in to disturb you, if you don't... Let it pass right through you. You're saying that the energy of it will drag you down into it and then you think you become that thing. So what are we supposed to do when problems show up? The moment it starts with that chitter-chatter, my mind, my first reaction inside is to relax and lean away from that. To go to the seat of self. You can use words. I just relax and lean away from it. Okay. Right? Yes, it's true. You end up leaning into the seat of self. Okay. But I lean away from the noise the mind is making. And by seat of self, I mean that awareness that that is my mind speaking. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. So you're going to do one or two things. Once it starts, you're either going to lean into it and get involved. Yes. It'll pull you in. Which is what most of us do. Or you have the right. You have the right to relax and lean away. And what you're going to do is start to get some space. And you will learn over time that that's the smartest thing you ever did. Why? Because you gave it room to pass through, and it will pass right through. Now, did this come to you over time? You learned this over time. I know I've read your story. You went to gurus. You sat alone. You meditated. You became almost a recluse. And, you know, for most of us, that's not the path we want to take. Good. Good. You say good. We just want to be able to, and I say we, speaking for myself, I want to be able to be connected. To that seat of the self, that is ultimately where God flows through. The power of God flows through. How do we begin to make that happen for ourselves? So, because I did all of that and tried all of that, I am so proud to come back and tell you, no, you don't need to do that. In fact, don't do it. All you have to do is get to the point on your everyday life, every moment of life. spiritual experience. I know you know that. Yes, that's why we're here on 2nd of September. And the reason it becomes a spiritual experience is because you've realized you are causing the vast majority of your own problems due to your mental reactions. So as life unfolds on a daily basis, you have the right to choose to live your life. not to do that. You can still go to work. You still take care of the kids. You just lean away from this mess that the mind is doing to amplify and overemphasize or overexaggerate whatever's going on. And then what do we do? Lean into what that awareness is saying? What will happen is when you let go of the noisy mind, you will end up in a seat of quiet, which I know you'll have to talk about. You'll end up in a seat of quiet because that's what it is back there is quiet. Stillness. Stillness. Stillness. Okay. Experience is that now you can look at reality and you will know what to do. Just the fact you don't have all this static, right, means the quiet one who's clear will look at reality and it will be pretty obvious what it is for you to deal with. Yes. Ultimately, I think what we're all seeking, even when we don't know it, when I would ask people on the show for years, what do you want? Everybody would say they want happiness. But aren't we all ultimately seeking freedom? Yes. We're seeking a state of absolute well-being. what freedom means. That's what it means. Yeah. And what's beautiful when you say, because I know you know it, is the true freedom is freedom from yourself. Yes. Right? I just want, like, I'll give you a vacation. Go to Hawaii, right? Yes. Or sit in the corner over there and go into ecstasy. Yeah. Which one do you want? Sit in the corner. Okay? In other words, the joy is inside ourselves. Yes. It's just that this mind has gotten programmed. Because you can go all the way to Hawaii, and lots of people have done this. You get all the way to Hawaii, you save your money, you get to da-da-da. And you can go to Hawaii, and you're taking your miserable self. That's right. That's right. Yes. That's why freedom is freedom from yourself, not freedom for yourself. Got it. Coming up, Michael Singer's advice for living your best life. Your time is limited, and you're supposed to be using it for something meaningful. Yeah. Well done, Mr. Singer. For those of you watching on OWN around the world and on the web, I want to know if this conversation about the incessant voice in your head connected to you. Facebook me or tweet, tweet. Let me know. Super Soul Sunday. We'll be right back. I think my favorite chapter, and I've been tweeting with other people about it, is Let Go Now or Fall, Chapter 8. So let me just read a bit of it, because we just have an hour today. I'm not going to be able to share everything from the book. May I just say, get the book, and now you'll know what I'm talking about. But this chapter I love the most, Let Go Now or Fall. The exploration of self is inextricably interwoven with unfolding one's life. The natural ups and downs of life can either generate personal growth or create personal fears. Which of these dominates is completely dependent upon how we view change. Change... Which people are so opposed to. Change can be viewed as either exciting or frightening, but regardless of how we view it, we must all face the fact that change is the very nature of life. Now, why are we so afraid of change? What basically happens is we've gone to the mind and said, I'm not okay, how does everything need to be for me to be okay? And then we have devoted ourselves to try and create that situation. It doesn't work, but we don't know that yet. And so we try to create situations that we think will make us be okay, and when things start changing that don't match that model... Yeah, we get scared. We get scared because it looks like it's not gonna work. Okay, I love what you say too. In the next paragraph you say, people don't realize that fear is a thing. Yes. Fear is a thing. It's a thing. It's just another object in the universe that you're capable of experiencing. You can do one of two things with fear. You can... You can either push it away or you can let it go. Yeah. Right? You can either avoid it and be scared of it, or you can let it pass right through. Okay. So what do you mean by let go now or fall? Right. Fear comes up out of your heart. That's a very natural thing. It's human. All right? You are watching. You see it. You have the right to relax, let it pass right through you. If you don't do that, you're going to try and fix it. You're going to try and control situations outside so you don't ever feel the fear. And it all starts to bother you. That's what it means you'll fall. and eventually you'll lose your consciousness, you'll forget your whole purpose, and you'll just be scared. You just get scared. You say the alternative is to decide not to fight with life, but that feels like just giving up and letting things take over. You don't do that in any way, shape, or form, right? Life is a natural unfolding of reality. You're supposed to harmonize and work with it. You don't give up and let it take over, right? Like if you get on a horse and you're scared, you're not going to be a very good rider, right? But that doesn't mean you let the horse go wherever they want. You learn. How to interface and interact with life in a wholesome, participatory way. Fear doesn't let you do that. So letting go of fear is not letting go of life. Okay, I'm watching this for the first time or the tenth time. I am on this path. I want to lead a better life. The first thing you would tell me to do is what we've been talking about, is to recognize the voice inside your head. Yes. Yeah. Step back. Be allowed to be in the seat of self. And then the next thing. The next thing is when you're watching, see whether what that voice is saying is really helpful. In other words, is it really giving you good advice? Or is it just a neurotic voice talking inside your head? And you will find that in every situation you're in in life, there is a higher way to deal with the situation. Of course, there are situations that are difficult to deal with, but there is still a higher way to deal with that situation than being reactive, which is the only thing the mind is going to do. So one of my favorite other chapters, It's chapter 17, Contemplating Death. It's truly a great paradox that one of the best teachers in all of life turns out to be death. No person or situation could ever teach you as much as death has to teach you. While someone could tell you that you're not your body, death shows you. I love that line. You were in the flow, man. You were writing that. Were you not? Okay. While someone tells you someone could remind you of the insignificance of the things that you cling to, death takes them all away in a second. Wow. How long did it take you to write this? It didn't take that long to write the book. Really? While people can teach you that men and women of all races are equal and that there's no difference between the rich and the poor, death instantly makes us all the same. Love that. The question is, are you going to wait until that last moment to let death be your teacher? My favorite line is where you say, let's say you're living life without the thought of death, and the angel of death comes to you and says, come. It's time to go. And you say, but no. You're supposed to give me a warning. So I can decide what I want to do with my last week. I'm supposed to get one more week. Do you know what death will say to you? I've given you your whole life. What were you doing with your whole life? How did you not be aware that your time is limited and you're supposed to be using it for something meaningful? Yeah. Death will say, my God, I gave you 52 weeks this past year alone. I love that. And look at all the other weeks I've given you. Why would you need one more? What did you do with all of those? If asked that, what are you going to say? How will you answer it? I wasn't paying attention. I didn't think it mattered. That's a pretty amazing thing to say about your life. Well done, Mr. Singer. Thank you. Well done. We'll take a break. We'll be right back. Coming up, what if there were just one thing holding you back? If you remove it, you will never have to think about it again, and you can start to enjoy your entire life. And that is spirituality. That's good. That's good. That's good. A big aha. And break out the bell bottoms and get ready to get down with Soul Pancake when Super Soul Sunday returns. My other favorite chapter of my new favorite book, The Untethered Soul, is removing your inner thorn. We all have them, right? Yes, we do. Do you still have some thorns or two? Of course. You do? Okay. The spiritual journey is about... and transformation. So you were saying, imagine, can you just do this for our audience, that whole passage on imagining you have a thorn in your arm that directly touches a nerve. Can you do that? So the analogy we were using is if you had a thorn that was touching directly to a nerve so much so that anything that touched it caused pain inside of you. So if you walked, difficult to walk through the woods and the leaf touched it, you weren't able to walk. If you were Trying to interact with people, a cause of disturbance. And the key point of it is you have two choices. One is you can either try to avoid everything in your life that touches that thorn, or you can do this amazing alternative, which is take it out. If you try to avoid it, you will be avoiding it for your entire life. It will go on constantly. Which is what we're all doing, right? Yes, it is. We're all doing it. We got our thorns in, and we don't want anybody to touch them. And if they touch them and they irritate our little thorn, We're upset because you shouldn't have touched my thorn. Yes. That's the whole. And that's the game that we play is how do I build a life that avoids touching all this stuff that happened to me that I can't handle. When they happened, I couldn't handle it. And now it's caused all these soft spots inside of me. Thorns. Thorns. So I need to create a life, train everybody around me. All right. So they don't ever touch that. Avoid my thorn. Some people even say that. Don't you go there with me. That's right. Yeah. Exactly right. The alternative is to understand you can remove that thorn. Inside of you the same as you can remove it outside. And if you remove it, you will never have to think about it again. And you can start to enjoy your entire life. And that is spirituality. That is spirituality. Now, how do you know what your thorn is? Disturbance tells you. Just like pain happens when you hit the thorn outside, disturbance happens inside. Because it's never what is actually happening. It's what is happening is irritating your thorn. It was put in there before. That's very good. That's good. That's good. So those events will show you... That's good, y'all get that? That's really good. So even when you see your husband leaves the, you know, drawers open or the whatever open or the left... It's not about what's going on, it's about the thorn. that was there. Yes. So, okay, how do we then begin to remove the thorns? That's the spiritual journey, is it not? Yes, it is. When something hits it, you will feel a disturbance pop up inside of you, right? And you have to choose right then, what are you going to do about that? Okay, so, and by something hitting it, meaning you're in a conversation, you're in your office, somebody says something, it hits a nerve, you think they have disrespected you, they have stepped out of bounds, they shouldn't have said that. your boss did something, your child did something. That's the nerve. But what's the difference between that and they really did do something? The difference is you always start with saying, do I want to be disturbed? Do I like being disturbed? No, I don't like being disturbed. So I have a choice. An event happened outside. I can deal with that event without being disturbed. In fact, I can promise you I can deal with it better without being disturbed. Disturbance isn't helping you. Disturbance is hurting you. Got it. And so you are way better off learning how to deal with the disturbance. And that is also how you remove the thorn. They are directly related. The fact that the situation outside stimulated this disturbance inside of you means that you've uncovered something stored inside of you that needs to come out. Coming up, how do we tackle life's most difficult spiritual challenges? Ooh, this personal growth thing. It's real. Some days I say, Jesus don't teach me nothing new today. And later, Michael Singer shares the story behind the corporate scandal that tested his own faith. You were indicted several years ago. Super Soul Sunday will be back in a moment. And now, a short film from our friends at Soul Pancake. Soul Pancake. We're on a mission to tackle life's big questions. I'm Golriz and I'm Devin and this is SoulPancake. 60 Second Disco We often only celebrate when there's a special occasion. But we don't always need a reason to let loose and have a little fun. So, Soul Pancake headed to a busy bus stop to surprise people with a spontaneous celebration. This bus pulls up and the doors open and it's like the greatest disco party ever. I was enveloped in like a whirlpool of dance. It was awesome. It's always nice to just celebrate little things and like the fact that you're alive you know that's something that's something. celebrate, you know? I think everyone needs to take a couple minutes out of their day to celebrate something. I wish stuff like that would happen every day to me. That would be awesome. A bus full of partygoers and happy people spreading happiness and laughter. I really loved it. We should do this every day. You say earlier on in the book that we in life are to use our problems as a way through. to the spiritual path. Yes. Those problems that really we should, I don't know whether the word is rejoice, but you should be excited about these problems because these problems are an opportunity for you to look at what really is going on inside. Hey, God, that's a lot of work. Well, but net result is all you do, which I know you teach all the time, you talk about all the time, what do I do when I feel a disturbance, right? You relax. But people say, I don't understand. I just said I was disturbed. How can I relax? Let's do something simple like road rage, which I never understand why, for the life of me, I can't understand why people get upset about somebody who cuts in front of you or somebody who, what is, that's about something else that's going on, right? That's right. It's something inside of you that that's stimulated. Your inner thorn. Yeah, that's your inner thorn. So you got to decide. Do I want to go out there and try to make sure nobody ever goes too slow in front of me or, you know, devote your life to that? Or would you like to say, look, I would like to enjoy my drive to work, even if somebody cut me off. But I can't because I just got extremely disturbed due to my past experiences. So we should look at our disturbances and see what our disturbances are trying to tell us about ourselves. You know, it's like if your body started to hurt, you don't say shut up. You say, well, I wonder what's wrong. He's trying to talk to me. That is your heart telling you something's wrong inside of me. You want to get it out. And so you just appreciate life as your teacher and then ultimately just we get it down How do you get it out you relax and it will work itself out. That is my experience you relax You relax and don't touch it and relax behind it and it will come up and push its own way out It's almost as if your heart doesn't want that inside. Yeah, and so just like the body pushes splinters out Yes, it will try to push it out, but you won't let it Because the moment it tries to push out, you push it back down. Ooh, this personal growth thing. It's real. But the freedom you get from it. Some days I say, Jesus, don't teach me nothing new today. Because you're constantly, every day, with every experience, have the opportunity to take that, quote, spiritual path. And by spiritual, we mean opening up yourself. To better understand yourself. Right. And every difficulty, every challenge is there to help you do that. It is. The beauty is you do not have to work out every one of your issues. You do not have to slick, oh my God, I got so many, I'll never do that. You do not have to. What will happen... is you'll relax behind enough times to where your seat of awareness will now be centered more in your seat of consciousness instead of the issues keep pulling you out. And when you do that, you will start to feel something open up. up inside of you, I guarantee you, you call it spirit, call it whatever you want, you will start to feel a strength, a power behind you, not in front of you where the thorns are, behind you where you've been leaning back into. Yeah. And it will support you and strengthen you and feed you. And the rest of the stuff will just fall away because it looks so meaningless. Where is God in all of this for you? At the end of that, the source of that. At the end of... The source of that energy. Of the seed of self. Yeah, the sort of the seed of self, you start... to feel this beautiful love and joy and just it literally like a vacuum that starts to pull you up into it and I could me God is the source of that, the source of spirit. And as you come closer into it, you get closer to God. And there's a joy that can open up inside that is so strong that nothing will ever pull you out. Your personal self will no longer pull you out. There's no struggle anymore, right? There's just this strength, the spiritual strength. You've turned the corner. Okay, how do you get that? The more you are willing to not get pulled into your personal self. By removing the thorn. By letting the thorn be removed. Which is so important. So interesting, you know, I remember, you know, a while back, I was being blasted in the media for various things, you know, what was happening with the channel or not happening and what people thought should be happening. And I was in the most peaceful space. I was at my home. with the trees and the sky and all of a sudden, I went inside and all of that did not matter. I thought, isn't this interesting? And then that's when I did that thing you're talking about. I didn't know that's what I was doing, but you just step back and you go inside. And that's always there. That's always available to you. And that's our connection to God. Yes. And now you sit there and say, how much better able are you to deal with the situation that needs to be solved? to be dealt with from that place of peace than you are from that disturbance. Because you can't, because once you allow yourself to be in the disturbance, then everybody's just disturbed. That's right. Everybody's doing this. And what can we do? And what should we say? And how should we react? Exactly right. And when you bring that piece to the table, you spread it everywhere. And I know you know that because I've heard you say that, right? And so all of a sudden, it's not just that you're better able, but everything around you is better able to deal with the situation. So to answer what you've asked me throughout the interview is, how do you deal with these terrible situations? Aren't they real? They are real, and you should deal with them. But first, be ready to deal with them. Come from a space of peace, and you'll find that you can deal with anything. Even, uh... I know what the answer is going to be, but I'm asking this question because so often people have said to me, oh, easy for you to say, Oprah, from where you sit, and easy to say if you haven't lost your job, or you're not facing a terminal disease, or easy to say if you're not going through difficult times in your life. I know you went through some difficult times because when I finished reading this book, The first thing I did was to Google to say, who is this guy and where did he get all this information and how does he know what he knows? And what comes up when you Google your name, anybody who's watching, I know that you all are going to do that, is that you were involved, you were indicted several years ago for fraudulent behavior, your company was? Basically, yes. The government came in and accused the entire executive team of our company. Which you were chairman or CEO. I was CEO at the time, yes, of fraud. When we come back, Michael tells us how he stayed centered during the biggest challenge of his life. In six years, you never said, oh, God, why me? Oh, this is a terrible, terrible thing. Oh, my God, what's going to happen to me? That's correct. Then we'll find some breathing space and a little magic in the islands. Next. So when you're in the middle of being charged by the government of fraud, were you innocent? Yes. Well, innocent in the sense that there was somebody who had done things in the company for sure, right? Had been taking kickbacks and so on, and he pointed the finger up and said, they knew what I was doing. Did you? No, of course not. Of course not. Well, I have to ask. Well, of course you can ask. Of course. Okay. So, okay. Being accused or indicted by the government for fraudulent behavior could cause you to be... Pulled down and I mean I've been on trial back in 1998. I mean the whole I was What is this all about? were you able to stay in that centered space of Spirit that you talked about during that whole time Yes Completely you were from the moment that took place a piece the moment the moment I'm not that good yet peace came over me and I just rested back into it and my attitude was My God, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to let go of some serious... Anything that's left of me. Because, as you said, it was pretty noisy stuff, right? And there was a part of me, right, that of course would never want to be in that situation. I didn't do anything, right? But I let go of him. The whole personality, the whole... Michael Sanger, right? Yeah. Let go of him. This is not a situation that he should be in, but he is. It's God's grace. It's something that God... I felt that God was reaching down. to pull whatever was left of my ego out and he used this situation to do it. We defended ourselves, of course, right? But I knew I didn't do anything. And so the question was, are you willing to use the situation to just complain and carry on how unfair it is? Are you willing to use the situation to let life reach in to the bottom of your heart and pull out whatever's left of your self-concept, your ego, your scared self, and stand there? And what it does is give you birth. It gives you spiritual birth. I went on for six years. I went on for six years. God did me good. That is amazing, because I was on trial for six weeks, and I thought, whoa. I never actually went to trial. I got dropped. The charges got dropped before trial. Yeah, but the investigation. The whole thing. All the noise. Six years. Six years. And you are telling me, Michael Singer, that in six years, you never said, oh, God, why me? Oh, this is a terrible, terrible thing. Oh, my God, what's going to happen to me? That's correct. It was the opposite. It was, if I have one chance, if I have one chance, opportunity in my life for liberation, God just gave it to me. How am I going to get rid of myself? How am I going to finally pull that thing out, that big thorn, right, of me? The me. I don't care what everybody thinks and scared to death that somebody would think I did something wrong or anything like that, right? And so I chose to do that. And so my mind wasn't saying, why me? My mind was saying, take it, take it. Just take it. Please take it away. I don't want to carry this burden anymore. Not the burden of the thing, the burden of me. Wow. And so it's a very spiritual thing. I wrote that book in the middle of that experience. You wrote this book in the middle of that experience? Yes. You wrote this book in the middle of all of the crazy being indicted and the thing? Yes. You know, there it is, right? That's the life. If you live that life. You can go very, very deep and you can handle anything. You can handle anything and all of it can help you go to God. You just use it to go to God. That's what Ramana used to say. Use it to go to God. All of it can help you go to God. If you use it properly. If that's what you want. Well, this is what's so interesting about what you just said. I just love that because... You know, my prayer for the past couple of years, even before I ended the Oprah show, was a closer walk with God, was a closer walk with God. Now, I think when I was praying that prayer, I thought that I was going to be walking through the lilies of the field. There would be lots of roses going through the garden, you know, because you think that that's what it's going to be. And sometimes it's not. You must die to be reborn. I love that Christ said that. You understand that? Those are Christ's words. You must die to be reborn. It means you must be willing to let go of your personal self, of your psychological self, of the complaining voice. Your identity. All that. Your image, your blah, blah, blah, all that. In order to be who you are, you must be willing to let go of who you think you are. That's what's meant by you must die to be reborn. And as you let that go, and he will help pull it out, right? And so you use it spiritually, and you will see that it will help you more than any meditation or anything. You meditate so that you have the center so you can let go of what life is doing. The real growth is letting go. That's perfect. Thank you. Your first television appearance. Very good. Well, I'm honored to have it with you. Thank you. That was great. This week, we'll find breathing space in one of the most magical places I've been, David Copperfield's private islands in the Bahamas. I loved being there interviewing David and experiencing all the surroundings. Here's to finding a little magic in your life today.

Today on Super Soul Sunday, I read his book, loved it, so I called him up. Michael Singer. Never done a television interview ever?

Only for you. This is exciting. The elusive author of one of my new favorite books, The Untethered Soul, oh I can't wait until we all read it, it's by Michael Singer, is here to help us all find a greater sense of inner peace. By shutting down the voice that won't shut up.

Come from a space of peace and you'll find that you can deal with anything. That's good, that's good. Did y'all get that?

It's something he says he learned firsthand. We're indicted several years ago. Embroiled in a corporate scandal, investigated by the government. Were you innocent?

Michael Singer was forced to face the ultimate test. I felt that God was reaching down. To pull whatever was left of my ego out. It's one of the most powerful spiritual lessons I've heard in a long time.

You never said, oh God, why me? Oh my God, what's going to happen to me? Join me and Michael Singer for his candid and enlightening first television interview ever. That was a gift to me.

Plus, we'll get down with a brand new short film from Soul Pancake. Super Soul Sunday starts right now. I wanted a place for people to go every Sunday. To wake up. Thought-provoking.

Oh, you couldn't have said that better. Eye-opening and inspiring. This is my favorite thing to talk about.

This will lift you right on up. It's food for your soul. Every single Sunday. This is Super Soul Sunday.

Described by the media as intensely private, Michael Singer is known for two very different roles. He's the founder of a multi-million dollar software company and he's a spiritual author. I was first introduced to Michael through his beautiful little book called The Untethered Soul.

It's by my bed stand right now. He writes about how he found inner peace and happiness and says any one of us can do it too. This is what's so exciting here on Super Soul Sunday. My guest today just told me he has never done television at all.

I have not done television. Never done a television interview ever? Only for you. Only for me. Only because you asked.

Otherwise, I say no every time I was invited. Well, let me just tell you how this came to be. Did I tell you this already, how this came to be?

That I discovered your book. I had about six or seven girlfriends at my ranch in Maui. I have the...

blessing of having a lovely ranch space in Maui. And for my birthday, at the end of this wonderful three or four days, someone handed me, Peggy Fitzsimmons, Left on the Kitchen Table, The Untethered Soul, this lovely book. I thought, oh, okay.

And then I saw Deepak's notes, liner notes. Read this book carefully and you will get more than a glimpse of eternity. I like that. And the very idea of the untethered soul. So I thought, gee, what is that?

The untethered soul. So I started reading it. First, part one is about awakening consciousness, which we've talked a lot about on The Oprah Show and did a 10-part series with Eckhart Tolle on the web back in 2008. And what I realized is that there are many paths in. to understand this way of consciousness. And you talk about, in the very first chapter, the voice in your head.

And you described it in such great terms. I started reading. I didn't put the book down. Luckily, I had enough time on that particular day. And I've now shared it with I can't tell you how many people.

and couldn't wait to be able to share it with everybody else. That's exciting. Yeah.

So what is the voice inside our head? Well, there's something we listen to on a regular basis. The problem is we think it's us. So, for example, you look at a vase and it says, God, look, that's a very interesting shape, but I don't really like the color that much.

It reminds me of my grandmother's vase. And all of a sudden we have somebody narrating and talking inside our head. That is not, that's not you. Yeah. Right?

Those are all your thoughts about the vase. And more and more as I watch that, I realize it never shuts up, that it talks about everything, it judges everything, it thinks about everything. Right, right. In the early 70s, Michael Singer was a young economic student studying for his doctorate. Sitting with a friend one day, he noticed a lull in their conversation.

And in that quiet little lull moment, he became aware of the thoughts that were running through his head. He realized that that voice, that incessant voice that expresses worries and doubts and anxieties was not really him. But he was the observer of the voice. That inner dialogue was an expression of his psyche. not his soul.

And that was the beginning of his awakening. And that was my path. That was the beginning of my path. So what happened actually in that moment now that you can describe?

I know Eckhart Tolle has said that that is the awareness, the voice, the awareness of the thoughts or the awareness of the voice inside your head is where consciousness resides. And that is who we really are. Yes.

So that's what you came to. Yes. That was your open door. Yes. to the path to understanding yourself as a spiritual being inside a physical human body.

With a mind. And isn't this the most important thing ever? Period.

Period. Period. Bar none.

None. This is the road to the spiritual path. Is to understand that you are a spiritual being. And the way to understand that you are a spiritual being is to know that you are not all of those thoughts.

That's the key. Right? Because so far we can't say what you are.

Because that's a thought, right? Right, that's a thought. Just, you know you're not the thought.

Why? Because I'm watching it. Yes.

You are there watching these thoughts. And sometimes people say to me, but which of those are me? None of them are you.

You are the one who's watching. Okay, so I got this. I've shared this with you.

I've heard it before. When I was in India, I got it really clearly. I mean, I'd understood it through Eckhart. I'd understood it through Transcendental Meditation.

I really got it. I was in India earlier this year. And there was a yogi who was leading me in meditation.

And... It was just the two of us. And he had me, he said, you know, close your eyes.

And now I'm going to name different objects. And one was a red triangle and one was the moon and one was a, you know, a white picket fence or whatever, all these objects. And he said, you know, hold on to the object in your mind. And then when I named the next object, let it go. What I realized in that conscious moment was that that's what's happening all the time.

Red triangles and picket fences and chairs and thoughts about everything are coming in and you can let those thoughts, I'm not good enough, I lost my job, I can't believe he left me, I can't believe my kids did it. They're thoughts. They're thoughts.

They are not you. They're not you. So how do we begin to separate ourselves from the thoughts? That's the question. Right, and that's the key.

What I love that you said is that really is the beginning of spirituality. That is. Is to separate.

What you're not from what you are, if you don't do that, you're going to stay lost. The self is spiritual. The one who's watching is the gateway to spirituality. So if you continue to just get involved in the mind, in the thoughts of the mind, this true spiritual path doesn't take place.

In The Untethered Soul, Michael Singer encourages us to ask ourselves the ultimate big question, who am I? And the other, what is that voice in my head? He says asking those questions is a key step toward spiritual development.

So you ask this big wonderful question, who are you? Who are you? And the answer when I ask you that question is... At this stage of my growth, who I am, is the one who's in here, who notices the thoughts come up, who notices the emotions come out of the heart, and who sees whatever is in front of my senses. I am the seer.

I am... The one who sees. The one who sees.

The one who sees. Okay. And you also talk about the lucid self.

Yes. What is the lucid self? The example we use in the book is that you can have a lucid dream in which some people know about that.

Instead of you're lost in your dream, sometimes you know you're dreaming. Have you ever had one of those? Oh, I love it. Where you're aware that you're dreaming. Yeah.

And then I've had them to the point where I say, I'm going to get out of this dream. That's beautiful. So you are then more conscious in that dream than you normally would be.

Yes. Because you're awake. In a sense, you're awake within the dream.

Yes. That is what the lucid self is. And now do that in your real life.

That your mind is continuing. Life is following in front of you. But you are aware that your mind is moving, that the world is unfolding.

But you are aware that your mind is moving. but your seat of consciousness is transcendent to that. It's centered at a deeper level.

And all of it just goes right by, and you don't have the same relationship with it that you used to have. It's something you're watching, not something you are. Something you're watching, not something that you are. And I would say, and you just, I think, agreed with me, that for everybody who is seeking, who's seeking this path of opening themselves up to being able to live a deeper, more enriched life, life that understanding that concept is the most important thing.

Period. That's it. Period. We'll be back with the other really good stuff.

Really good in a moment. Coming up, the secret to finding joy and inner peace. Maybe it's not as hard as we all think. Isn't that why we're all here, to figure out how to do that?

We make it hard, but it's actually very, very easy. And later, how Michael Singer and his spirit survived a corporate scandal. Were you innocent? Super Soul Sunday.

We'll be right back. So if you're just joining us on Super Soul Sunday, there are a few books over the years, spiritual books by spiritual teachers that have really been staples for opening the heart space for me, which is how I define spirituality. And I would tell anybody who is looking for a more deepened, enriched, fulfilling life. And looking to change your perception of who you are and looking for miracles to occur regularly.

This is the gift. I've given it to everybody, so I'm running out of people to give it to. So now I'm just sharing it with the world as I can.

It's called the untethered soul. You say if you really want to grow, real spiritual growth happens when there's only one of you inside. There's not a part that's scared. and another part that's protecting the part that's scared.

All parts are unified because there's no part of you that you're not willing to see. Yes. That's what being a whole person is, isn't it? Yes, that's integrity.

That's true integrity. You're integrated as a being. Wow. Isn't that why we're all here, to figure out how to do that? Yes.

Yeah. But it's easy. We make it hard, but it's actually very, very easy. I love this, too, for everybody who's on the spiritual path, opening up your heart.

Once you've made the commitment to free yourself of that scared person inside, you'll notice that there's a clear decision point at which your growth takes place. You just notice something starts to change. Spiritual growth is about the point at which you start to feel your energy change.

Yes. Yeah. So basically, an event is happening outside. You're talking to somebody, enjoying the conversation, and all of a sudden they say something that hits something inside of you, a soft spot, and your whole mind, your heart starts to close. Your mind starts to figure out why did they say that?

Did I say something wrong? And you go south. You go somewhere, right?

And you notice yourself starting to get involved in that reaction. And so at that moment, you have to decide, do I want to solve this? Does this need to be solved?

And do I need to think about it? Or am I willing to just relax and let it pass? You're talking about that chapter, let go or fall? Yeah, that's right.

Yes. Because when something comes in to disturb you, if you don't... Let it pass right through you. You're saying that the energy of it will drag you down into it and then you think you become that thing. So what are we supposed to do when problems show up?

The moment it starts with that chitter-chatter, my mind, my first reaction inside is to relax and lean away from that. To go to the seat of self. You can use words.

I just relax and lean away from it. Okay. Right? Yes, it's true. You end up leaning into the seat of self.

Okay. But I lean away from the noise the mind is making. And by seat of self, I mean that awareness that that is my mind speaking. Yes.

Yes. Uh-huh. So you're going to do one or two things.

Once it starts, you're either going to lean into it and get involved. Yes. It'll pull you in.

Which is what most of us do. Or you have the right. You have the right to relax and lean away. And what you're going to do is start to get some space.

And you will learn over time that that's the smartest thing you ever did. Why? Because you gave it room to pass through, and it will pass right through.

Now, did this come to you over time? You learned this over time. I know I've read your story. You went to gurus.

You sat alone. You meditated. You became almost a recluse. And, you know, for most of us, that's not the path we want to take.

Good. Good. You say good. We just want to be able to, and I say we, speaking for myself, I want to be able to be connected. To that seat of the self, that is ultimately where God flows through.

The power of God flows through. How do we begin to make that happen for ourselves? So, because I did all of that and tried all of that, I am so proud to come back and tell you, no, you don't need to do that.

In fact, don't do it. All you have to do is get to the point on your everyday life, every moment of life. spiritual experience. I know you know that.

Yes, that's why we're here on 2nd of September. And the reason it becomes a spiritual experience is because you've realized you are causing the vast majority of your own problems due to your mental reactions. So as life unfolds on a daily basis, you have the right to choose to live your life. not to do that. You can still go to work.

You still take care of the kids. You just lean away from this mess that the mind is doing to amplify and overemphasize or overexaggerate whatever's going on. And then what do we do?

Lean into what that awareness is saying? What will happen is when you let go of the noisy mind, you will end up in a seat of quiet, which I know you'll have to talk about. You'll end up in a seat of quiet because that's what it is back there is quiet. Stillness.

Stillness. Stillness. Okay. Experience is that now you can look at reality and you will know what to do.

Just the fact you don't have all this static, right, means the quiet one who's clear will look at reality and it will be pretty obvious what it is for you to deal with. Yes. Ultimately, I think what we're all seeking, even when we don't know it, when I would ask people on the show for years, what do you want? Everybody would say they want happiness. But aren't we all ultimately seeking freedom?

Yes. We're seeking a state of absolute well-being. what freedom means.

That's what it means. Yeah. And what's beautiful when you say, because I know you know it, is the true freedom is freedom from yourself.

Yes. Right? I just want, like, I'll give you a vacation. Go to Hawaii, right? Yes.

Or sit in the corner over there and go into ecstasy. Yeah. Which one do you want? Sit in the corner. Okay?

In other words, the joy is inside ourselves. Yes. It's just that this mind has gotten programmed.

Because you can go all the way to Hawaii, and lots of people have done this. You get all the way to Hawaii, you save your money, you get to da-da-da. And you can go to Hawaii, and you're taking your miserable self. That's right.

That's right. Yes. That's why freedom is freedom from yourself, not freedom for yourself.

Got it. Coming up, Michael Singer's advice for living your best life. Your time is limited, and you're supposed to be using it for something meaningful. Yeah.

Well done, Mr. Singer. For those of you watching on OWN around the world and on the web, I want to know if this conversation about the incessant voice in your head connected to you. Facebook me or tweet, tweet. Let me know. Super Soul Sunday.

We'll be right back. I think my favorite chapter, and I've been tweeting with other people about it, is Let Go Now or Fall, Chapter 8. So let me just read a bit of it, because we just have an hour today. I'm not going to be able to share everything from the book. May I just say, get the book, and now you'll know what I'm talking about.

But this chapter I love the most, Let Go Now or Fall. The exploration of self is inextricably interwoven with unfolding one's life. The natural ups and downs of life can either generate personal growth or create personal fears.

Which of these dominates is completely dependent upon how we view change. Change... Which people are so opposed to. Change can be viewed as either exciting or frightening, but regardless of how we view it, we must all face the fact that change is the very nature of life. Now, why are we so afraid of change?

What basically happens is we've gone to the mind and said, I'm not okay, how does everything need to be for me to be okay? And then we have devoted ourselves to try and create that situation. It doesn't work, but we don't know that yet. And so we try to create situations that we think will make us be okay, and when things start changing that don't match that model... Yeah, we get scared.

We get scared because it looks like it's not gonna work. Okay, I love what you say too. In the next paragraph you say, people don't realize that fear is a thing.

Yes. Fear is a thing. It's a thing.

It's just another object in the universe that you're capable of experiencing. You can do one of two things with fear. You can... You can either push it away or you can let it go.

Yeah. Right? You can either avoid it and be scared of it, or you can let it pass right through. Okay.

So what do you mean by let go now or fall? Right. Fear comes up out of your heart. That's a very natural thing. It's human.

All right? You are watching. You see it.

You have the right to relax, let it pass right through you. If you don't do that, you're going to try and fix it. You're going to try and control situations outside so you don't ever feel the fear. And it all starts to bother you. That's what it means you'll fall.

and eventually you'll lose your consciousness, you'll forget your whole purpose, and you'll just be scared. You just get scared. You say the alternative is to decide not to fight with life, but that feels like just giving up and letting things take over.

You don't do that in any way, shape, or form, right? Life is a natural unfolding of reality. You're supposed to harmonize and work with it. You don't give up and let it take over, right?

Like if you get on a horse and you're scared, you're not going to be a very good rider, right? But that doesn't mean you let the horse go wherever they want. You learn. How to interface and interact with life in a wholesome, participatory way. Fear doesn't let you do that.

So letting go of fear is not letting go of life. Okay, I'm watching this for the first time or the tenth time. I am on this path.

I want to lead a better life. The first thing you would tell me to do is what we've been talking about, is to recognize the voice inside your head. Yes.

Yeah. Step back. Be allowed to be in the seat of self. And then the next thing.

The next thing is when you're watching, see whether what that voice is saying is really helpful. In other words, is it really giving you good advice? Or is it just a neurotic voice talking inside your head?

And you will find that in every situation you're in in life, there is a higher way to deal with the situation. Of course, there are situations that are difficult to deal with, but there is still a higher way to deal with that situation than being reactive, which is the only thing the mind is going to do. So one of my favorite other chapters, It's chapter 17, Contemplating Death.

It's truly a great paradox that one of the best teachers in all of life turns out to be death. No person or situation could ever teach you as much as death has to teach you. While someone could tell you that you're not your body, death shows you.

I love that line. You were in the flow, man. You were writing that. Were you not? Okay.

While someone tells you someone could remind you of the insignificance of the things that you cling to, death takes them all away in a second. Wow. How long did it take you to write this?

It didn't take that long to write the book. Really? While people can teach you that men and women of all races are equal and that there's no difference between the rich and the poor, death instantly makes us all the same. Love that.

The question is, are you going to wait until that last moment to let death be your teacher? My favorite line is where you say, let's say you're living life without the thought of death, and the angel of death comes to you and says, come. It's time to go.

And you say, but no. You're supposed to give me a warning. So I can decide what I want to do with my last week. I'm supposed to get one more week. Do you know what death will say to you?

I've given you your whole life. What were you doing with your whole life? How did you not be aware that your time is limited and you're supposed to be using it for something meaningful? Yeah.

Death will say, my God, I gave you 52 weeks this past year alone. I love that. And look at all the other weeks I've given you.

Why would you need one more? What did you do with all of those? If asked that, what are you going to say? How will you answer it?

I wasn't paying attention. I didn't think it mattered. That's a pretty amazing thing to say about your life.

Well done, Mr. Singer. Thank you. Well done.

We'll take a break. We'll be right back. Coming up, what if there were just one thing holding you back?

If you remove it, you will never have to think about it again, and you can start to enjoy your entire life. And that is spirituality. That's good.

That's good. That's good. A big aha. And break out the bell bottoms and get ready to get down with Soul Pancake when Super Soul Sunday returns. My other favorite chapter of my new favorite book, The Untethered Soul, is removing your inner thorn.

We all have them, right? Yes, we do. Do you still have some thorns or two?

Of course. You do? Okay. The spiritual journey is about...

and transformation. So you were saying, imagine, can you just do this for our audience, that whole passage on imagining you have a thorn in your arm that directly touches a nerve. Can you do that?

So the analogy we were using is if you had a thorn that was touching directly to a nerve so much so that anything that touched it caused pain inside of you. So if you walked, difficult to walk through the woods and the leaf touched it, you weren't able to walk. If you were Trying to interact with people, a cause of disturbance.

And the key point of it is you have two choices. One is you can either try to avoid everything in your life that touches that thorn, or you can do this amazing alternative, which is take it out. If you try to avoid it, you will be avoiding it for your entire life.

It will go on constantly. Which is what we're all doing, right? Yes, it is.

We're all doing it. We got our thorns in, and we don't want anybody to touch them. And if they touch them and they irritate our little thorn, We're upset because you shouldn't have touched my thorn.

Yes. That's the whole. And that's the game that we play is how do I build a life that avoids touching all this stuff that happened to me that I can't handle. When they happened, I couldn't handle it.

And now it's caused all these soft spots inside of me. Thorns. Thorns. So I need to create a life, train everybody around me. All right.

So they don't ever touch that. Avoid my thorn. Some people even say that.

Don't you go there with me. That's right. Yeah.

Exactly right. The alternative is to understand you can remove that thorn. Inside of you the same as you can remove it outside. And if you remove it, you will never have to think about it again.

And you can start to enjoy your entire life. And that is spirituality. That is spirituality. Now, how do you know what your thorn is?

Disturbance tells you. Just like pain happens when you hit the thorn outside, disturbance happens inside. Because it's never what is actually happening.

It's what is happening is irritating your thorn. It was put in there before. That's very good.

That's good. That's good. So those events will show you... That's good, y'all get that?

That's really good. So even when you see your husband leaves the, you know, drawers open or the whatever open or the left... It's not about what's going on, it's about the thorn. that was there. Yes.

So, okay, how do we then begin to remove the thorns? That's the spiritual journey, is it not? Yes, it is.

When something hits it, you will feel a disturbance pop up inside of you, right? And you have to choose right then, what are you going to do about that? Okay, so, and by something hitting it, meaning you're in a conversation, you're in your office, somebody says something, it hits a nerve, you think they have disrespected you, they have stepped out of bounds, they shouldn't have said that. your boss did something, your child did something. That's the nerve.

But what's the difference between that and they really did do something? The difference is you always start with saying, do I want to be disturbed? Do I like being disturbed?

No, I don't like being disturbed. So I have a choice. An event happened outside.

I can deal with that event without being disturbed. In fact, I can promise you I can deal with it better without being disturbed. Disturbance isn't helping you.

Disturbance is hurting you. Got it. And so you are way better off learning how to deal with the disturbance.

And that is also how you remove the thorn. They are directly related. The fact that the situation outside stimulated this disturbance inside of you means that you've uncovered something stored inside of you that needs to come out.

Coming up, how do we tackle life's most difficult spiritual challenges? Ooh, this personal growth thing. It's real. Some days I say, Jesus don't teach me nothing new today. And later, Michael Singer shares the story behind the corporate scandal that tested his own faith.

You were indicted several years ago. Super Soul Sunday will be back in a moment. And now, a short film from our friends at Soul Pancake. Soul Pancake.

We're on a mission to tackle life's big questions. I'm Golriz and I'm Devin and this is SoulPancake. 60 Second Disco We often only celebrate when there's a special occasion.

But we don't always need a reason to let loose and have a little fun. So, Soul Pancake headed to a busy bus stop to surprise people with a spontaneous celebration. This bus pulls up and the doors open and it's like the greatest disco party ever. I was enveloped in like a whirlpool of dance. It was awesome.

It's always nice to just celebrate little things and like the fact that you're alive you know that's something that's something. celebrate, you know? I think everyone needs to take a couple minutes out of their day to celebrate something.

I wish stuff like that would happen every day to me. That would be awesome. A bus full of partygoers and happy people spreading happiness and laughter.

I really loved it. We should do this every day. You say earlier on in the book that we in life are to use our problems as a way through. to the spiritual path.

Yes. Those problems that really we should, I don't know whether the word is rejoice, but you should be excited about these problems because these problems are an opportunity for you to look at what really is going on inside. Hey, God, that's a lot of work. Well, but net result is all you do, which I know you teach all the time, you talk about all the time, what do I do when I feel a disturbance, right? You relax.

But people say, I don't understand. I just said I was disturbed. How can I relax?

Let's do something simple like road rage, which I never understand why, for the life of me, I can't understand why people get upset about somebody who cuts in front of you or somebody who, what is, that's about something else that's going on, right? That's right. It's something inside of you that that's stimulated. Your inner thorn. Yeah, that's your inner thorn.

So you got to decide. Do I want to go out there and try to make sure nobody ever goes too slow in front of me or, you know, devote your life to that? Or would you like to say, look, I would like to enjoy my drive to work, even if somebody cut me off. But I can't because I just got extremely disturbed due to my past experiences.

So we should look at our disturbances and see what our disturbances are trying to tell us about ourselves. You know, it's like if your body started to hurt, you don't say shut up. You say, well, I wonder what's wrong. He's trying to talk to me. That is your heart telling you something's wrong inside of me.

You want to get it out. And so you just appreciate life as your teacher and then ultimately just we get it down How do you get it out you relax and it will work itself out. That is my experience you relax You relax and don't touch it and relax behind it and it will come up and push its own way out It's almost as if your heart doesn't want that inside.

Yeah, and so just like the body pushes splinters out Yes, it will try to push it out, but you won't let it Because the moment it tries to push out, you push it back down. Ooh, this personal growth thing. It's real. But the freedom you get from it. Some days I say, Jesus, don't teach me nothing new today.

Because you're constantly, every day, with every experience, have the opportunity to take that, quote, spiritual path. And by spiritual, we mean opening up yourself. To better understand yourself.

Right. And every difficulty, every challenge is there to help you do that. It is.

The beauty is you do not have to work out every one of your issues. You do not have to slick, oh my God, I got so many, I'll never do that. You do not have to. What will happen... is you'll relax behind enough times to where your seat of awareness will now be centered more in your seat of consciousness instead of the issues keep pulling you out.

And when you do that, you will start to feel something open up. up inside of you, I guarantee you, you call it spirit, call it whatever you want, you will start to feel a strength, a power behind you, not in front of you where the thorns are, behind you where you've been leaning back into. Yeah.

And it will support you and strengthen you and feed you. And the rest of the stuff will just fall away because it looks so meaningless. Where is God in all of this for you? At the end of that, the source of that. At the end of...

The source of that energy. Of the seed of self. Yeah, the sort of the seed of self, you start...

to feel this beautiful love and joy and just it literally like a vacuum that starts to pull you up into it and I could me God is the source of that, the source of spirit. And as you come closer into it, you get closer to God. And there's a joy that can open up inside that is so strong that nothing will ever pull you out. Your personal self will no longer pull you out.

There's no struggle anymore, right? There's just this strength, the spiritual strength. You've turned the corner. Okay, how do you get that?

The more you are willing to not get pulled into your personal self. By removing the thorn. By letting the thorn be removed.

Which is so important. So interesting, you know, I remember, you know, a while back, I was being blasted in the media for various things, you know, what was happening with the channel or not happening and what people thought should be happening. And I was in the most peaceful space.

I was at my home. with the trees and the sky and all of a sudden, I went inside and all of that did not matter. I thought, isn't this interesting? And then that's when I did that thing you're talking about.

I didn't know that's what I was doing, but you just step back and you go inside. And that's always there. That's always available to you. And that's our connection to God.

Yes. And now you sit there and say, how much better able are you to deal with the situation that needs to be solved? to be dealt with from that place of peace than you are from that disturbance.

Because you can't, because once you allow yourself to be in the disturbance, then everybody's just disturbed. That's right. Everybody's doing this. And what can we do?

And what should we say? And how should we react? Exactly right. And when you bring that piece to the table, you spread it everywhere.

And I know you know that because I've heard you say that, right? And so all of a sudden, it's not just that you're better able, but everything around you is better able to deal with the situation. So to answer what you've asked me throughout the interview is, how do you deal with these terrible situations? Aren't they real?

They are real, and you should deal with them. But first, be ready to deal with them. Come from a space of peace, and you'll find that you can deal with anything. Even, uh...

I know what the answer is going to be, but I'm asking this question because so often people have said to me, oh, easy for you to say, Oprah, from where you sit, and easy to say if you haven't lost your job, or you're not facing a terminal disease, or easy to say if you're not going through difficult times in your life. I know you went through some difficult times because when I finished reading this book, The first thing I did was to Google to say, who is this guy and where did he get all this information and how does he know what he knows? And what comes up when you Google your name, anybody who's watching, I know that you all are going to do that, is that you were involved, you were indicted several years ago for fraudulent behavior, your company was?

Basically, yes. The government came in and accused the entire executive team of our company. Which you were chairman or CEO. I was CEO at the time, yes, of fraud. When we come back, Michael tells us how he stayed centered during the biggest challenge of his life.

In six years, you never said, oh, God, why me? Oh, this is a terrible, terrible thing. Oh, my God, what's going to happen to me? That's correct.

Then we'll find some breathing space and a little magic in the islands. Next. So when you're in the middle of being charged by the government of fraud, were you innocent?

Yes. Well, innocent in the sense that there was somebody who had done things in the company for sure, right? Had been taking kickbacks and so on, and he pointed the finger up and said, they knew what I was doing.

Did you? No, of course not. Of course not. Well, I have to ask.

Well, of course you can ask. Of course. Okay.

So, okay. Being accused or indicted by the government for fraudulent behavior could cause you to be... Pulled down and I mean I've been on trial back in 1998. I mean the whole I was What is this all about?

were you able to stay in that centered space of Spirit that you talked about during that whole time Yes Completely you were from the moment that took place a piece the moment the moment I'm not that good yet peace came over me and I just rested back into it and my attitude was My God, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to let go of some serious... Anything that's left of me. Because, as you said, it was pretty noisy stuff, right? And there was a part of me, right, that of course would never want to be in that situation.

I didn't do anything, right? But I let go of him. The whole personality, the whole...

Michael Sanger, right? Yeah. Let go of him.

This is not a situation that he should be in, but he is. It's God's grace. It's something that God...

I felt that God was reaching down. to pull whatever was left of my ego out and he used this situation to do it. We defended ourselves, of course, right? But I knew I didn't do anything.

And so the question was, are you willing to use the situation to just complain and carry on how unfair it is? Are you willing to use the situation to let life reach in to the bottom of your heart and pull out whatever's left of your self-concept, your ego, your scared self, and stand there? And what it does is give you birth. It gives you spiritual birth. I went on for six years.

I went on for six years. God did me good. That is amazing, because I was on trial for six weeks, and I thought, whoa.

I never actually went to trial. I got dropped. The charges got dropped before trial. Yeah, but the investigation.

The whole thing. All the noise. Six years. Six years.

And you are telling me, Michael Singer, that in six years, you never said, oh, God, why me? Oh, this is a terrible, terrible thing. Oh, my God, what's going to happen to me? That's correct.

It was the opposite. It was, if I have one chance, if I have one chance, opportunity in my life for liberation, God just gave it to me. How am I going to get rid of myself? How am I going to finally pull that thing out, that big thorn, right, of me? The me.

I don't care what everybody thinks and scared to death that somebody would think I did something wrong or anything like that, right? And so I chose to do that. And so my mind wasn't saying, why me? My mind was saying, take it, take it.

Just take it. Please take it away. I don't want to carry this burden anymore. Not the burden of the thing, the burden of me. Wow.

And so it's a very spiritual thing. I wrote that book in the middle of that experience. You wrote this book in the middle of that experience?

Yes. You wrote this book in the middle of all of the crazy being indicted and the thing? Yes. You know, there it is, right?

That's the life. If you live that life. You can go very, very deep and you can handle anything. You can handle anything and all of it can help you go to God.

You just use it to go to God. That's what Ramana used to say. Use it to go to God.

All of it can help you go to God. If you use it properly. If that's what you want.

Well, this is what's so interesting about what you just said. I just love that because... You know, my prayer for the past couple of years, even before I ended the Oprah show, was a closer walk with God, was a closer walk with God.

Now, I think when I was praying that prayer, I thought that I was going to be walking through the lilies of the field. There would be lots of roses going through the garden, you know, because you think that that's what it's going to be. And sometimes it's not.

You must die to be reborn. I love that Christ said that. You understand that?

Those are Christ's words. You must die to be reborn. It means you must be willing to let go of your personal self, of your psychological self, of the complaining voice. Your identity. All that.

Your image, your blah, blah, blah, all that. In order to be who you are, you must be willing to let go of who you think you are. That's what's meant by you must die to be reborn. And as you let that go, and he will help pull it out, right?

And so you use it spiritually, and you will see that it will help you more than any meditation or anything. You meditate so that you have the center so you can let go of what life is doing. The real growth is letting go. That's perfect. Thank you.

Your first television appearance. Very good. Well, I'm honored to have it with you. Thank you. That was great.

This week, we'll find breathing space in one of the most magical places I've been, David Copperfield's private islands in the Bahamas. I loved being there interviewing David and experiencing all the surroundings. Here's to finding a little magic in your life today.

Transcript for:Insights from Super Soul Sunday with Michael Singer

Transcript for:
Insights from Super Soul Sunday with Michael Singer