today's guest made $100 million with Snapchat stories stop [ __ ] paying influencers it doesn't work it's irrelevant it's outdated paying for content is done forever after dropping out of high school he went from selling cars to selling teeth whitening kits with his company Purely White Deluxe they're going to tell you that you're crazy or that you have a great job in the car business why would you quit how can you teach me business how can you teach me to be a millionaire if you've never done it generating tens of millions of dollars a year he could have simply cashed out but instead he launched Comfort which is now the top fashion company on Tik Tok making $500 million a year comfort is the fastest growing ecom brand of all time that's a true fact purely White I would say is probably one of the slowest growing in this episode we'll dive into his journey from high school dropout to ecom legend unveil the viral methods he uses to blow up on Tik Tok and break down the exact blueprint to build multi-billion dollar brands hudson Leo Grande welcome to the Jack Neil podcast thank you yeah so that was great that was great of course brother um yeah you have a pretty crazy story uh and it's crazy the way in which we met each other we had a mutual friend uh he asked me to go to dinner with Hudson and I was like I think I remember that guy is he I thought he was from New York though and he's like "No he lives in Miami." I'm like "Why do I know that name?" And then we see each other at dinner and turns out we'd got on a call five years ago four years ago uh for me to do a brand deal for your company at the time Purely White Deluxe and we were just talking about this you said like that was around the time when you started yeah yeah yeah purely white we Yeah 9 years the business has been around but the first four and a half years the business had no like we had no movement so Snapchat was the start the first how many years four years of the company i've had the company for nine years now we're going on year nine wow so when I met you is when we just started actually getting some traction and it was all because of Snapchat how much money have you made with Snapchat stories over 150 million and tell me like what is that for people who don't know what you do on Snapchat where did it start what's the process so well we don't do the same method that we started with so we've we've we've kind of eliminated that because the algorithm had changed once they put mid roll for paying creators they started to dilute the views but before that you could have two to three posts a day and the person could get four five six seven million views a post we would put a cold traffic link of a person making a video saying this is how I get my teeth so white and then they would follow up with them using the product with another link and that would drive at its peak we had a thousand creators doing two posts a day probably getting like 500 tube 700 million views a month and it was all like cold traffic because paid ads didn't work so meta didn't work we Tik Tok shops wasn't out yet Tik Tok was still very beta um I don't know I don't even know if they had like an ad platform yet i think people are just doing organic cuz that was our pivot we went from when Snapchat failed right to Tik Tok and then started doing the same thing they had the creator marketplace that was the first thing yep yep were there other brands on Snapchat stories at the time no we were the only one so we So like my last hail Mary was like "Okay if we my friend was a verified creator so they had the gold star on Snapchat and he was like dude I'm getting like 2 million views a day on my stories was like "What if I just threw up a purely white post?" And the company went from like $100 in sales a day to like 4,000 a day in sales and then he did it the next day and the next day and the next day and they didn't block the link they didn't shadowban him they kept it perfect and it aligned with all of his views and people were starting to like even message him and they're like "What's this purely white company?" And then this is when how you and I met i started taking calls with every single creator so we had every single person getting on a call with me i had no team i was my only employee i had an EA that like she was just like starting with me she had no experience neither did I and she would like message them on Instagram off my page we would get on phone calls and then we would pitch them on doing content with us on Snapchat and then we would just continually like drive the funnel of like getting people to post every day and then that's how we got to like a thousand people posting on Snapchat the issue I had at the time uh and it seemed like the competitive advantage if you were doing Tik Tok marketing in 2021 or Snapchat marketing was that you couldn't get in contact with these influencers um or it seemed so hard to get in contact with them uh because they were so famous so many people DMing them on Instagram there weren't that many Tik Tockers at the time and you said you were able to do it why so we I mean it was like we would send hundreds of messages a day and a couple people would answer as soon as we started getting traction it was a word of mouth play so those creators would tell their friends who they had their numbers and they were friends with and then we would pay them a salary to go and recruit for the company so this way it's not coming from Hudson the founder it's coming from three corey who is messaging you know 5 10 15 people a day like asking them like hey if you guys want to make extra money on Snapchat work with my buddy Hudson like he'll send you a teeth whitening kit because that was all we had was just the whitening kit um and he'll just pay you to post every day and that was how we started so we were able to kind of break through but yeah it was super hard to get in touch with everybody but the other thing was like is it like that anymore i've been out of the agency game for two years now um and I would assume that you just write a good email at this point or send an Instagram DM never emailed i I've no one even read I I don't even read I try not even to read my emails sometimes so I just message them right on Instagram i mean we'll get into it but like for Tik Tok now how we recruit is we'll find them on Tik Tok we'll go to their Instagram we'll DM them and then we have five other people DM them so you'll get five messages from different people all maybe a mutual maybe not maybe verified maybe a little bit bigger but someone is going to get through to you and as soon as they do they have all they have their own different scripts and then once they finally answer they get on a call i don't take the calls anymore uh but like we have a team that does it that's some serious alpha man uh five messages from big influencers i mean I I thought it was already some alpha that we use big creators to do outreach for our company like not a lot of people do that in general but using five messages at the same time like you're going to wonder at least what is this thing I'm being reached out about and the thing is like we only will work with the people to do outreach that are making serious money with the company so if I have a content creator saying I make $150,000 a month working with comfort I think you'd be a great fit like we saw your content we love it so it's very authentic because we won't send the message unless and they do alter the message by person if like there's a certain video that they liked maybe they'll link the video like we try to make it personal where it's not just like copy paste copy paste um but when you have the results as the content creator it's very easy for people to align with you like it feels more organic than the than the owner coming in and saying that you know it's like okay this is me i work with this company this is the content that I'm making and this is how much money I'm making i think you'd be right and then bring them into the community get on calls every week with them dial in with them and build them into like this big family and that's kind of how we do it now but I know we'll get into that and then just out of curiosity this is ultra specific do but do you do any inerson events like creator events for the company yeah so we'll have like brand trips so we'll take like the top 50 content creators and we'll go to like New York City or we'll have people come to Miami it's still fresh like we've only done two but we're trying to do like at least three a year i think we'll get on why that's important later but uh essentially quality not quantity with creators and I think that's where you differ from most people talking about there's so much money at Tik Tok shop it's like oh we need a bunch of creators and there's truth to that but when you're scaling paid ads uh like running ads on Facebook uh it's more powerful to just have really solid creatives would you say that's true yeah you need to have really solid so what I like to say is it's for the creators it's it's quality um over quantity for the creative it's quality and quantity combined so the algorithm is going to pick what the algorithm wants we may think it's the best creative in the world but Tik Tok may say "Ah it's not really that good and it may not get views." So what I do right now is we do three to five pieces of content a day per creator so we have internally 500 and then externally just affiliates with codes we have about 350,000 so those people will be like a lot of them are customers that will say "Hey we really love the brand we want to earn a commission telling our friends right?" So they feel like they're a part of something which they are and then you have the internal creators that we have hand selected that we believe make the best content in the world and we incubate them and train them exactly how to make content what's the best hook we have data scientists that come into our calls and they explain the hook watch time and the middle of content and the call to action and why this hook worked and if you put the call to action in the beginning of the video instead of the end of the video and you do it twi like that's the game um and we teach that game and then we allow them to do quality quantity but they have guidelines not real ones like they don't have to follow them but we do share the best videos the worst videos what's performing the best what colors are performing the best what verbiage is performing the best and then we have them alter it and they have this list on notion of just what their best hooks were in previous videos and how to align them into the new content that's really great stuff yeah I I think you're doing this at extremely high level let's just give everyone uh like zoom out a bit sure so what brands do you own at the moment how big are they how much money are they doing on the internet so Comfort is in it's it's going to be 3 years in August uh the brand is on pace to do 500 million in revenue this year um my And what's comfort comfort is my clothing brand so we are the most purchased hoodie in America we are the number one brand on Tik Tok shop in the world um and we are actually the biggest spender on Snapchat as well we found out a way to to make it work the Snapchat and Tik Tok audience are very aligned um how much money do you spend on Snapchat every month over $150,000 a day on Snapchat so we Yeah we found a way to with my our media buyers just to make it make sense and the halo effect of what Snapchat can do to the other channels media buying on Snapchat is something I'm very interested in because they thought it didn't work i made them try it you're the only person who does it correctly like I will literally go on Snapchat see uh some creator like posting their normal content and then I will see that creator in an ad for comfort and and I'm like wait that was an ad i thought they were just wearing the hoodie cuz it's the same person or it's one of their friends or it's just this same community cuz there's only so many people that run Snapchat i I I'll let you finish where uh so comfort $500 million a year and then you have Purely White Deluxe still purely White Deluxe is going to do probably 80 million this year um most of it is Tik Tok shops and then overflow to Amazon and we're going to be in Target um every Target in the country in February so that's kind of the play there the business is different and I I like to say this all the time like to to people who ask me like the the growth of comfort or the success of comfort and for people who are going to watch this it's like there is some things when you're starting a business or when you're looking to start a business like what is it that actually makes the brand click and the the issue that we've noticed is like you need to have a big TAM if you and TAM is total addressable market right so how many people will buy this thing yeah how many and and with comfort we're we're transgenerational like we have we have kids we have now comfort paws for pets we have for adults for teens for senior citizens like everybody can wear and it's all unisex so anybody and everybody that's watching this is like they've all worn a hoodie so you have that to kind of play into okay if I can get into a market that's oversaturated have a different level of marketing go into this gray area actually solve a problem and really talk about the problem that no one's talked about before like people are they have sensory issues people want a slightly weighted hoodie that literally feels like a human hug the way we manufacture our product it's very very very hard to duplicate which is why no one's been able to do it um and people would say like "Oh it's just a regular hoodie." like maybe it's a placebo effect or it's marketing like the way that we brush our fabric and the and the exact percentages that we use it's like we made the perfect hoodie um and we do that across all of our products we have 5 lb weighted hoodies for people that you know people were messaging with um children that had autism and they were wearing the vest and they were getting embarrassed and we gave them a 5B hoodie which is serving the same purpose as a vest but no one would know um and those are things that we're playing into because we are a mental health brand we're trying to change everything and I think that when you have uh there's three pillars to a successful brand there's unbelievable marketing there's unmatched quality and then there's an incredible community and you have to have all three you can't have great marketing and a [ __ ] product because no one's everyone's going to be like "Oh I just fell for the marketing." And then you can't have no community because then people aren't going to come back and buy again and the whole purpose of building a business is to have customer retention and have people coming back like the repeat rate for comfort is 40% and we never have stock so like that to us shows us that we're doing something right for purely white it's almost the opposite and I'm happy to like talk about these things because it's the truth purely white has a way less retention rate really it's one time buy yeah like it's very very low it's like 10% retention and we are Purely White Just explain briefly what that is so Purely White Deluxe is in we're an oral care brand and we originated with the teeth whitening kit when the LED lights were very very hot and everybody was using like the LED light whitening kits so you insert the little little gel you put the gel the syringe and then you put the LED light in you pop it in automatic 10 minutes goes off and your teeth actually do get whiter it's like a a carbon peroxide blend which is hydrogen peroxide and carbon peroxide actually it's it's it really works but people can get sensitive teeth and Tik Tok shop is not really like a fan of that product because people were giving like a high return rate or bad feedback so we went into whitening powders and we originated and created a new category in teeth whitening where now that's our hero product where we put nanohydroxy appatite which is a it's an alternative to fluoride um and it can still whiten and remmineralize your teeth and we put that into powders where you can dip any toothpaste in brush your teeth with the powder and the powder is going to help and has benefits so now that's the number one product on Tik Tok shop and oral care in the world and that's under Purely White Deluxe under Purely White Deluxe we've expanded out with the powder and we've done variations and we've done anti-avity powders and we've done PAP+ powders and just things that are like going to really benefit you and again like go into the comfort idea of like great marketing great product quality things like that where in the past purely white I wouldn't say it had the best product quality the MVP was it just drop shipped no no no we What the the powder oh so the MVP of Purely White Deluxe like the teeth whitening kit no was that just a drop ship product no no no we bought it in bulk okay well I started with $1,000 in my mom's basement okay and we didn't know that private labeling was a thing so we would like buy stickers in one place buy the boxes in another place and then we would shrink wrap it with a blow dryer in my mom's kitchen um so like the package was secured and then we would ship it out and that's how we kind of started the brand so it was somewhat white labeled somewhat you guys were actually assembling it what what's so impressive to me about you is that you basically went from this uh white label private label kind of mixed product to that was trendy at the time viral like there were so many viral videos about people using teeth whitening kits and you kind of arbitrageed that capitulated upon that and then you switched to clothing which is selling a hoodie is what every every influencer you talk to is like "Bro I want to launch a clothing brand like I want to launch merch." And you actually built something where you have a hoodie that makes $500 million a year so I I just don't even understand how that's possible like what made you break into that market so when I was younger for a short period of time I I was homeless and I dropped out of high school so I was going through a lot of adversity i was had a lot of anxiety a lot of stress um and I was depressed quite honestly like I was going through a really rough time and what I did was I took that feeling and emotion um and like sometimes all you want is a hug like you just want it like like that makes you feel better there's like studies of if someone hugs you what that can actually do to your body and your mental and I was like what if we came out with a product that kind of emulated a human hug but in a in a product and how does that feel and we sent it to all of our content creators that were with Purely White and I asked them I was like "Give me your honest thoughts like don't blow smoke like tell me the truth." And we got a couple people that were like "I haven't taken this off in 3 days i don't know how I could love a piece of clothing this much." And that was immediately when I was like "Okay we got to do it." I bought Comfort's Domain for $5,000 before I even knew that we had a product that was winning yet i just had the idea of like "You want the name?" I thought I messed up with Purely White Deluxe a little bit like the I was going to talk about that i was like it's not very simple it's not it's not cuz I didn't I was so oblivious to business that like I had a dentist I was friends with and he was like "You should just name it like purely white and add Deluxe like Deluxe sounds like it's like very high-end." And I was like "Okay." So purely white deluxe.com i would have done purely white um if I could I still probably should um but but comfort I was like I wanted the name of the brand to immediately speak to what the product does and it just it makes you feel comfortable and that was something that everyone was like you're never going to get a trademark you're never going to and I was like I don't care let's just see how this goes two and a half years later get the trademark um so it's kind of like get the trademark for comfort the word comfort okay without the O with the Yeah and I think that's important too is like people just give themselves so many reasons for why it's not going to work and it's like for us maybe me being naive and like a little bit delusional helped the process because if I listen to the people like that we have in my corner now like the lawyers and the attorneys that we work with that are like we might not be able to get it's like it almost refrains you from like even starting the process because you're like oh it's not likely so maybe let's not start and it's like if we had that mindset the whole way none of this would exist so you kind of see it as a product not as a designer which I feel like is most people doing hoodies clothing they see themselves as designers and that's usually who you're competing with we're selling an emotion like we're selling a feeling everything is everything that we do is to evoke emotion like that's the whole business model is I want to make you feel something Jack that's it i want you to feel something and if I can evoke enough emotion that I can align with you I can trigger hot points in a video that makes you feel like we're relating now to the video we talk about the oversized hood how the you know how we support mental health charities how you know we have every single color you could possibly imagine you have all of these different things that you're talking about and then you have somebody through the middle of the video telling you their personal experience with the product and why they love it all of a sudden like something clicks and when that thing clicks it goes you from your dopamine scroll that you're doing that no you just you're not stopping to wait a minute I actually align with this oh it's on sale oh they're always sold out because you get the FOMO and the scarcity backed by the the evoking of emotion and then now you have a perfect video that people are like "Okay we're going to buy this." What did the first 30 days of comfort look like because I think about the amount of trust you have to build with clothing products uh like if people just see hoodies while they're scrolling they usually don't buy it but if you become like a brand name I'm assuming you kind of have a monopoly in the market to an extent and then let me ask you this first were there any other competitors doing a similar thing with weighted hoodies no so you were the first in that market did you make that a trend or was that an upcoming trend that you saw with weighted blankets weighted pillows we we created the trend yeah it didn't exist yet which I have friends that like they create product categories and I know how hard that is um we obviously didn't create the product but we just altered the product to serve a different purpose so people weren't buying something over comfort they were buying comfort in conjunction with another product or on its own because they didn't they had enough hoodies that were regular in their closet but they didn't have a comfort hoodie yet so the idea behind the product was let's be different to the point that no one can be like oh well I could just buy this because this is the same thing and once you differentiate yourself enough they're just going to buy it because they want to try it out and once they love it that's how you kind of keep them in so what did the first 30 days of comfort look like so the first 30 days of comfort were interesting um we we were we were in a position where we had no idea how to run a clothing brand so that was the one thing like we had no idea what we were doing and we were we generated $10,000 our first day we were priced too high um what was the price we were like at $140 and then what's it now um we we dynamic price test so that's another thing like we we actually alter price depending on stock availability so our customers know that we do this and if we have an item that only has a couple units left the price will be very high if we have a good amount of stock which we want to have at all times so we could keep prices low forever um will be more of an affordable price for everyone to buy and do you mean by that do you mean if there are 1,000 units of X hoodie and it goes to 500 units the price is increased or is it like three hoodies one's 1,000 one's 100 one's 10 like is it like that or is it the first one so we have it where once the inventory hits a certain threshold the price changes okay so sunset inventory kind of yeah correct so you have to change based off availability and if we can slow down velocity of sales we're able to keep products in longer the company can be obviously more profitable on an ad well not necessarily sometimes we end up profiting the same because the CPA might be a little bit higher right because CPA CPA is cost per acquisition so cost per acquisition is what does it cost a company to acquire the customer so the KPIs which is key performance indicator is two things for us it's CPA and rorowaz if we have a great rorowaz like for every dollar we spend if we make $3 back and if you do that at a million a day spend you make $3 million a day you win right so that's kind of the idea behind like the media buyers we like to keep it simple is if our CPA is too high what's wrong with the ad what's wrong with the product what's wrong with the price and then we look at the rorowaz and we have to make sure that aligns which is why that goes back into training and incubating creators to make great content that aligns with our KPIs so that they can make more money because we scale their videos more um because we spark we everything is a spark ad so we will put paid ad spend behind all of our content creators so they still get their commission and we're still spending money behind the ads so if it makes us money and it makes them more money it's like a perfect world it's so funny seeing uh the termage you use as opposed to people who are new to this because the terms used to be different a couple years ago like I heard you on another interview say Tik Tok shops instead of Tik Tok shop and then you just said spark ads and I'm like yeah no one says that anymore they just say paid ads i wanted to ask you the the sunset dynamic pricing that you talked about is that something that's commonly done no um where so there's two things that we do that I would say for everybody that is in e-commerce they should do this so I bootstrapped comfort i had no funding i own 100% of the company i was going broke trying to fund the business because the growth was 16 million to 170 million to now 500 so the 16 to 170 was a huge gap for us that we could not clear i did not have the funding i would have to take on debt the whole thing we then put pre-order on the website that is at all times available so even if the item is in stock if you want to wait 2 months you can get it at a lesser price so we act as the bank so we take inventory we we we we defer inventory 2 months we take capital upfront we buy the inventory with that capital and then once the item comes in then we actually like realize the sale by shipping out the product and we're very transparent so the one thing that one of my friends told me he was like "Hudson when you're doing this you have to be proactive instead of reactive." Because if you're reactive with your customers especially on a pre-order your chargebacks are going to go through the roof so what we do is there's five different placements from the time you click pre-order to the time you check out and in your email that we're telling you the estimated ship date so that's something that we have to do because you have to let them know and there was a delay unfortunately in November of all times right around Black Friday which was a nightmare we oversold and then there was the hurricanes and everything in Florida and we were shipping into port of Miami to go to one of our places and that was delayed at sea and then we had to de delay 3 weeks and then that was a nightmare for the company so now we give ourselves more of a buffer um but it was a learning lesson pre-order could be a nightmare if you don't do it the right way but that was the only way we were able to scale properly so you said pre-order is the first thing you do that's uh really important for e-commerce brands pre-order pre-order is the number one thing for a bootstrap company if you have hype and excitement around a product and people are willing to wait for a lesser price throw pre-order on your website and be able to understand how much inventory you're buying how much you can sell never oversell the in them the amount of inventory you bought but that will put you in a position where you can win still capture sales not have inventory on hand but have people knowing that they're getting a product at a great price the one thing about comfort is it is the most affordable hoodie we are at a great price point our pre-order is 39 bucks for a very high quality hoodie that's like over 350 GSM like it's a great product and we don't want the contribution margin of our company so from the sale to the amount of money we actually make on the sale from the ad it's actually better when our prices are lower we want to be at a lower price we want to be more appealing to the masses goes right back into TAM right our total addressable market is huge our demographics are huge now what's the demographic and the price point that fits perfectly and for us it's like if I could sell at $40 all day long I would um but the selling out which goes back to the first 30 days like that was our problem we sold out and then I was doing napkin math trying to figure out how much we were going to order next and what color was the best and one of the craziest things was like the one of our bestselling colors now was our worst selling color for the first 6 months like nobody wanted it i don't know we had one video that blew up with somebody wearing it actually Alex Earl wore that color like there's only a few people that have that effect like there's the Livby Duns of the world the Alex Earles of the world two-turn Tony that cultlike following that will do anything or buy anything that you recommend or showcase she's one of those people there are only a certain number of actual influencers you know like people call everyone with followers influencers but most of them don't have influence and then let me go into now that this is the that's the greatest part stop [ __ ] paying influencers it doesn't work it's irrelevant it's outdated paying for content is done forever i said it to you four and a half years ago and that was like probably one of the first times you heard it and now it is a real thing pay commission everybody on Tik Tok shops is commission that's it i know maybe some people pay retainers and stuff like that i don't believe in that make great content make great money let the brand take all the risk and then you just make content and we will handle the rest we'll make sure we have inventory we'll make sure we have the right colors we'll make sure that we have the proper products that you can market the right way will do everything for you you make the commission now let's go a step further highlevel influencers right like these big big big influencers that charge 25 30 grand for a post you're done that's obsolete in the next couple years you can have a creator with 3,000 followers that understands creative that is growing at a rapid rate that makes unlimited videos instead of a oneanddone video like a big content creator would so I give you 25 grand make me a video the video flops the business is out 25 grand for people that are just starting out that have that are bootstrapped that could that could end their business that almost ended my business it ended ours yeah my biggest content creator I ever paid was two-turn Tony and I and I love him and I love his his cousin Colton is a great guy he's his manager and I told him I was like I needed to be 25 grand at the most because they were charging like 50 i was like I'll do it every month but 25 grand if I if this video flops that hurts my business so much we had like a hundred grand in the bank account at that point i was like that cuts me 25% so I relied on him but thank God cultlike following they bought we made some money on that but there was other times that I did that after the fact hoping that I would duplicate that out and it didn't work so for me it's like I'd rather mitigate my risk my job as a founder as an entrepreneur is to mitigate risk at all cost pre-order mitigates risk dynamic price testing actually can mitigate risk having micro influencers that pay that you pay commission to mitigates risk i don't pay for upfront content people at half a billion dollars in revenue are like doing insane brand deals with celebrities and athletes i don't need anybody because I don't care to have the celebrity face that's that's driving sales for my business which doesn't even drive that many sales i have people that are relatable relatability is key people don't buy a product they buy a brand if I have people that are like-minded that talk about real life problems and relate to the consumer I win why would I go have a celebrity face that is unrelatable to most people go promote my product and that really just showcases like oh they have money now oh they could go afford that now i'm never changing the strategy and we've had to pivot so many times to get to this strategy it's like we we did try bigger level influencers on Snapchat higher like couple million you know subscribers the subscri the follower count on TikTok is irrelevant now if your videos are not good they won't drive views so the con and also with Tik Tok shops if your business is booming they push those videos right like if go is making videos if comfort's making videos if purely white if guru nandanda is making videos they pop up more because there's so many people that are posting about them so it's a trending topic and then they push the trend to generate the sales because then it makes Tik Tok more money um and that's kind of the way that we've noticed too is like the more relatable you can get and the more you could just talk about your life or be in the car and have a conversation like that content sells something to put this differently uh you said this on a previous interview and you're kind of hinting at it now but the reason the commission structure is so powerful is because you as a brand can only promote so many products before people get burnt out and sure you can get a Netflix brand deal for 20K but you're going to get one of those and you're not going to get it again and but you just promoted Netflix now what's better doing one Netflix deal for 20K that you don't ever see again or doing uh a brand like Comfort that you can promote every single day it's natural in your content and you end up making 40K over the course of 3 months instead of just having that one-off deal and you don't have to associate with all these brands you can pick a couple of brands that you like um is that kind of how you're thinking about it 100% and we thought about that in the beginning because when I had to pitch some of these creators they were already making money on brand deals some of them were coming off TV shows like Too Hot to Handle or Love Island and they were getting a couple brand deals here and there and I was like "Guys just do me a favor look at it from this perspective the longevity of working with me two times a week at this rate will make you 75,000 for the year." So that's your rent that's your car payment that's whatever you want to say it is but it's guaranteed i'll never stop working with you it's not a one-off deal so take your brand deals no problem there's not many teeth whitening companies promoting the way we are just take the 75 grand over the course of the year post two times a week it takes you 15 seconds stop giving yourself such a high rate and handicapping yourself and like just take the money with us and grow with us and go take there's no exclusivity if you want to stop stop at any time and that was the way that I pitched it because it's like let me let's zoom out for a second stop looking at like the one-time payment that I'm giving you look at the time that I'm paying you over the course of a year and what that could mean for you and if the business grows and if your content gets better if you generate more sales your rate goes up and then when we came out with comfort we had two brands and then we have a third brand coming out called Nude which is going to be filtered showerheads so like that market is untapped um I know nude how do you spell it n U so nude okay and we have that and then we have the attachment to the sink where there's companies that are doing it like Jolie Canopy Filter Baby like there's businesses in the space that are doing it and I would I would actually say like they're probably the pioneers of it like Filter Baby was like one of the first companies ever to do the filtered uh sink um like there was another company I forget the name of it but they were doing it for just like t like drinking water and then this company just took the same exact model and then just did it for like to wash your face or to wash your hands um it's it's very interesting but it's the same product just a filtration system but we're doing the same thing with nude so it's like that's going to be huge just I I'm already seeing people talking about it the whole tap water trend drink from glass water only this is so true it's not It's not a gimmick like it's real florida where we are right now has some of the worst and hardest water in the country people come here and they go bald like they actually go bald like men lose their hair at a rapid rate they get they get uh you get like um people get eczema they get um uh dandruff like there's so many things that people get from using hard water and also like the like the chlorine in the water and the heavy metals in the water like you're filtering all of that out so like imagine like getting all sweaty and running at the gym and then going home and then showering and [ __ ] it's like you're cleaning yourself off with dirty water but you just don't know that you are go away for two months go back home to your place and go look at all the the yellowish crust that's on the shower because it dried up it's like that's all that's all you're showering in that every day do you use a shower filter right now yeah that was why I started it because I actually bought a filtered shower head i tried it when I moved to Miami two months into it my hair was completely different and I was like "So it works." And then it goes back into great product great marketing great community the community will be huge it's a recurring subscription every 3 months you replace your filter you're not going to buy a product let the filter go bad and then just use the shower head cuz you think it looks cool so the subscription is the key to the business and it's interesting because a lot of people with water filters in their fridge don't replace those cuz they're like "Oh I don't need to." But the people who would buy a filtered shower head Yep they're going to take care of it you know um so it's three-month repeat buy and then Okay you probably don't want to talk about the price points of that uh how long did that take to make a year and a half okay so you have a pretty good I've been working on a year and a half it's been the longest to formulate a product ever we molded the product we have patents pending on the product we have like so many different things that we're doing and we have like future products that we've developed for like V2s and like things that we're doing with the sink i think it's just like it's a harder product to make than a hoodie or a whitening product honestly have you talked to Luke about this one um cuz his brother Nate he uh he uses a filtered one i didn't know that and his brother's like super healthy i don't know if you've talked to him but like he's like complete health guru like into some crazy stuff well Luke and I are working on a company so you were at that dinner um if it happens I think it will change the way that an influencer owned brand is viewed forever i think it's a billiondoll company within the first two years i think it will be in every Target in every Walmart in the country and it will be one of the most unbelievable brands ever developed um that that is how big it is and I think that we don't sometimes we're desensitized in this industry to like you know like you don't get too excited because you don't know what's going to happen this like kept us up all night so yeah that would be fun yeah I do have some uh inside info on what that might be but uh I do want to ask you about that dinner because Luke pitches you an idea uh we're talking about Luke Belmar uh he pitches you an idea uh and you and your partner start thinking about distribution you don't start talking about the product immediately like I think there's a quote from Justin Khan who founded Twitch and he's like first- time founders uh think about product second time founders think about distribution third time founders think about product again but why did your head go straight to distribution on that because because we know we're going to nail the product the product isn't even a problem like you get to a level in e-commerce and who we're talking about is Ben from Clean Skin Club so he's not actually my partner in any business right now um he we're collabing with Comfort in his company but Ben is a pioneer he created a new category he created a sanitized paper towels that is now going to do north of nine figures this year in revenue so he's one of the best founders I've ever met so he came to that dinner thinking that this person was going to be there and we were going to have a conversation um ex person was not there and then when Luke pitched the idea to us we immediately thought like how do we get the product to the masses and what does that play look like from an exit perspective cuz everybody that is involved in this is going to want to see an exit in the first three years right you just want to kind of cash out sell to a big PE firm or strategic and then call it a day so we were like if we could get into every Walmart if we could get into every Target he has the bestselling product in Target stores and I have the bestselling product online for Target for Purely White um in personal care so we Does yours make more than that uh than in store no so in store makes more if you're the number one in store versus online i guess it's Target to be fair target in store makes more than How about Walmart is that the case yeah same thing walmart amazon if Amazon had a store it wouldn't be the case people are still going in store that's interesting okay yeah walmart you can make a lot of money but like Amazon is like it's light years ahead we drive traffic to Target to make Target the number one like we drive paid traffic to rank on target to be number one on target but Amazon if you just have the overflow effect and you rank or if you have search find where people are just typing it in so for instance like search find by is when you have like someone says uh like whitening powder and then purely white comes up first so in the beginning when you're starting like a company on Amazon you're like okay if we type in whitening powder scroll and find purely white buy it it will start to rank to the top cuz Amazon be like oh wait people are scrolling to page three to find this product let's put them first and then once you have enough traction and then you have people from Tik Tok that are overflowing and they're typing in purely white that keyword is going to say purely white teeth whitening powder then you're going to click that and it's going to rank for both and then that's kind of how you start that do a lot of people know that uh no that was a pretty big gem okay yeah that was pretty big not a lot of people know Search by Buy how about this one the You just said something about Target i when I was I was researching ecom briefly a couple months ago i was like it we talked about before the podcast i was looking for my next opportunity and I was thinking that Tik Tok shop might be that for me and I was like well no one's really tackling this Target thing and no one's really tackling this Walmart thing like what if I could rank on those because it seems like no one's trying to uh get into that and like I never hear anyone talking about I make this much money on Target i make this much money on like Walmart affiliates is that pretty niche too yeah it's super niche we're the only company I would say in the world that run paid traffic um on Tik Tok to Target with the deep link so we'll we'll literally bring them to the website so that they could go buy that's the way that we do it this is all purely white comfort does not sell anywhere else other than its website and Tik Tok shops why by design we have too much demand we don't want to give Amazon a fee to sell on their platform we we actually are the aside like they are having duplicate products being sold on their platform we will go international first we'll we'll go into major retail first and then you know if there is a potential exit at a point of the company we'll leave Amazon open for the buyer we don't need Amazon um if anything was to change and if we thought that there was a bigger opportunity on Amazon we would but there's a lot of companies that strategically won't dilute their brand to sell on Amazon hudson I feel like every ecom guy I've spoken to that's been somewhat close to your level of success uh has usually had a supplement product and a beauty product why do you have multiple categories of products that you're doing instead of just purely white let me do a bunch of adjacent products to this let me be number one in this forever like why like how at what point do you make the decision to go from uh the comfort clothing to uh this shower head i like to because there's there's two things when you start a business is like how bad is the problem and how great is your solution so for us the filter shower head play is great there's a huge problem in America we have a better solution than the problem with comfort there was a problem that wasn't being addressed and we were the solution for purely white what's the alternative to having white teeth having yellow teeth so purely white was the first idea of like okay there's a need for this product let's solve a problem comfort solves a bigger problem i believe nude solves the biggest problem everybody showers so every the TAM is gigantic but if you can bring enough information so this is my quote that I like to say all the time is like people don't need time to make a decision they need information so that's like the one quote that I use actually I think Hormosi was the first person that I heard use this quote and I use it all the time is how do we give enough information to somebody so that they have enough to make a decision like if you go to a car dealership what's the first thing people say i'm just looking okay let me give you enough information about the product and make you so excited that you don't have to go anywhere else to make a decision it's make it right here because you have enough information now how do we do that with a product so nude is perfect you shower every day this is what's in your water let me show you visibly what is in your water if I can show you the color of your water really like the color of it what does it look like in the pipes what do the pipes look like how rusted are those pipes in your building that you that that was built in 1975 like how does that look what is the water underground like and now let me show you what it looks like when we clean it what would you rather have and it's a let's just say it's a 100 bucks or 50 bucks to change your entire life to change all of these different things that you're getting diluted through your water you might as well just go buy a product big problem better solution so those are the things that I see is like the marketing and also I enjoy starting something from nothing i think that if you can start a product and get people like the best sale is the first sale when someone trusted you enough to actually click buy and to us like when we have someone that trusts us enough to to buy the product like we want to we want to deliver the best thing we possibly can to go back to the bit about the distribution mechanisms if you had to break it down for me on let's just say purely white since it's a little bit more diverse uh like what percentage is coming from Walmart what percentage Target what percentage Amazon tik Tok shop i would say Tik Tok shop is like 50 and then I would say Amazon is like 30 um Target is 20 and then um and then uh no that's 50 right there 30 20 is 50 so that's 100 so I would say maybe maybe Target is like five maybe like seven and Walmart is like three so Target is very underrated you would say just because they don't have enough demand there there's not enough people shopping in that category on target to move the needle amazon there is Target there is for some categories like betting like a lot of people like Kasaluna I think is is is exclusive with Target um and they do unbelievable numbers so if you have a certain product and you get on target.com you could rip and it's very underrated like you said like there's not a lot of people that are like focusing on that because everyone's focused on the rat race on Amazon if we had to go into some more gyms uh if you had say $1,000 of capital uh actually I've kind of asked this before and people usually just say I would be an affiliate on Tik Tok shop so maybe $100,000 in capital you wanted to do this or you just did your pre-order method as well uh like what products would you be looking at how would you find a good niche that kind of thing um it's going to sound like like everybody else is doing right now i would go into supplements everyone wants to be healthier and more fit everybody is getting more health consscious so if you could develop or find a product that's selling that's doing really well because you don't want to originate the category you want to find someone that's doing it already that's ripping it and then you want to just take that product and make it better just be a better version of that product and have better marketing if the products are great whoever is the best marketing wins if your marketing is better you win so take a product that works that people are going to come back and buy it over and over and over again supplements subscription higher e like the IBIDA multiples are way higher right so like if you're exiting the product so IBIDA is earnings before taxes interest and amorization like if you go and have that product and it's doing really well and you have a your IBIDA is great your multiple is higher because it's recurring revenue they pay a lot more money for supplements than they do clothing so if you think about it from that perspective like you could go and exit a company with a lot less revenue but have a lot more gain and people will buy the product if they see the benefit so supplements is huge huge huge huge um and then I think I think filtered showerheads i think if you have $100,000 you could develop a product even if you got a ready stock product that worked the right way and then you decided what's a ready stock product like a a product that's already for like they the manufacturer already has that product in China they just private label it to to your company name so drop ship your brand yeah yeah and then Well you're Yeah you're buying so drop ship meaning like maybe I'm confused like drop shipping to me is like you have the product in China and then somebody buys the product and then you ship from China to the customer okay gotcha i'm thinking Amazon fulfillment yeah yeah so like for us it's like we Yeah you're going to buy a stock product that China already has or Vietnam or Cambodia already has and then you're going to put your your name on that product right your company name and then you're going to just sell that product but once that product has enough sales and you want to reinvent yourself go open a mold up for 20 grand go make a product have it look great have it be customized to you and then that also builds into the community when other people can't copy your design right because you want to be different like no one's going to go copy Jolie and if they do they'll get sued because they have the patents to that design same thing with Canopy like the bigger brands in spaces like even like if you think about remember that like the cologne when we were younger like the had like the guy the jacked guy like the body on it so like there was like a cologne with like a blue body I forget or something no one could go copy them they did that they're the only company that can go and put that exact figure in that logo with that color like that that's their thing and people go buy it over and over and over again because they're buying more than just like what the product represents from a quality perspective or but they're buying like the brand trust yeah yeah they trust that product because it's unique to their company so that's one thing that I always say is like if you're coming out with a supplement or any type of product like differentiate yourself as much as you can cuz you're in the same category no matter what hudson let me ask you this so you're doing 500 mil one product 100 mil the other or 200 um no no purely white will do about 80 million this year 80 million so 580 okay and then what kind of multiples do you get on clothing could be five to eight five to 8x 8x would be a pushing it i would say like five to seven um and what 500 million doesn't matter if your company's not profitable making money they're not going to pay on the total revenue they're going to pay on what you're actually making in revenue um which that's another thing that people have to watch out for like you hear these guys saying "Oh we made 500 we made $500,000 this month on Amazon." What What did you really make 3% profit what' you make what' you make 15 grand okay cool no problem so just say you made 15 grand this month don't say you made you made 500 right so the profit is is key right so when you're like we're multiight figures in in in profit um and that matters because you have to have that in order to fund the business and to drive success to the business um so at each stage so 0 to 1 million what's the number one skill people need to learn when scaling e-commerce product zero to 1 million you have to learn marketing 1 to 10 you have to have great product and be better at marketing because now you're scaling the company and you have to make sure that the way you are marketing aligns with a broader uh a broader spectrum of people 10 to 50 10 to 50 you will have to find one major hook that can take your company to the stratosphere like $50 million like you could get to $50 million with one good hook hook what do you mean like there's one hook to your brand that draws in the person one angle for creatives yeah one one angle of content that is directly aligned with your company could take you to 50 million 50 to 250 you're [ __ ] 50 to 250 you're going to have to hire heads of growth chief revenue and growth officers have full-time CFO you have you can't have a fractional CFO you have a full-time CFO you have uh data scientists and analysts and you have head you have uh multiple media buyers and you have director of influencers if you're doing a lot of marketing and you have you have so many you have a head of product you have a VP of product you have a CTO you have a VPO like you have so many different dude I'm going through it right now it's horrible how many employees do you have right now we have 25 which is very slim yeah that is small Jesus we have 25 internal very high level I would say B+ to A+ players and then we have um and then we have an agency that we work with and we work with a few different agencies on certain things creatives mostly uh no creative is all in house we have a distribution uh we have a technology company that helps our head our our website is headless um so it's very fast we have a full-time team that is working on split testing at all times everything about our our website is how do we maximize conversion rate so that is a full-time job so we have an agency for that how do you scale your company to a billion dollars in revenue go international um and I think we could do a billion international i think if we just went international the company could do a billion in revenue i think to get from 1 billion to 2 billion now you have to be opening retail locations in in bulk and you have to have a huge wholesale deal like every Target in the country or you know be at every Urban Outfitters and have multiple places selling your product that's to get into the billions but if you could just find pockets online DOC and if you capture a couple hundred million in the United Kingdom and you capture a couple hundred million in Europe like there's your then you're making up that other 500 and then international what's the big challenge there is that the actual fulfillment and distribution or is that the marketing learning all the marketing of those localized areas i I don't think either of them are necessarily hard i think it's tedious um but I think that the hardest part would be having a reliable 3PL like a reliable fulfillment center in in those countries um because people do drop ship from China where they'll well not drop ship but they'll buy their product in bulk in China transferred to the fulfillment center and then they'll just ship to other countries from China and it's like fiveday shipping we have companies that we know that have fiveday shipping from China to the US it's the same speed as me shipping in the US it's a cheat code people do that all the time they use fulfillment centers to ship all over the world but then like if you're in certain places that have high like tax duties and stuff like that you want to start to sell your product in those countries at a physical 3PL there like in the UK you'd have a 3PL in Europe in Germany you have a 3PL and then you would just start shipping to those countries from that 3PL there but the whole goal is like go test the waters go run broad marketing on meta and go run to every country and see what picks up the most the marketing is easy you could just go to Facebook ad library and see what the oldest video running is of a company in the UK that's selling the same product as you and see what works and then just go and twist it and make it about your marketing but what they like over there and then do that in every single country like it the writing's on the wall right like we know what to do it's just a matter of like can you actually go get the resources to do it what's the most amount of money you've spent on one creative i've spent a million dollars on one creative just like in paid ad spend pushing it and what rorowaz did that get five wow that's interesting and it was a street interview off a street interview yeah interesting what was the hook to that can't say uh we Yeah no I can't say it's interesting people need to think about the things that that people can't say on the podcast you know so what would you say is the biggest competitive edge you have right now for any of your ecom brands when it comes to the what the funnels of the traffic i think it's the army of affiliates like if you have uh an infrastructure where you don't need a creative agency to run your ads like not to run your ads but to have creators come in so that you can run ads with them and you could just have everybody inhouse and train them exactly what works for your brand and only work with your brand i think that that's the competitive edge because you have people that all they think about is money so they'll work with 15 different companies and it dilutes not only like their page but it also dilutes them on the algorithm if you work Tik Tok is tiered you have three tiers of what what uh industry you you promote the most so it could be fashion accessories could be pet supplies could be personal care if you are promoting so many other items that clothing is no longer in your top three or the first it's going to hit less people on Tik Tok shop because that's not your niche it's only going to start to push your niche so if you can continue to push one product and get that to number one and continue to drive sales that way it's going to help you on the algorithm side where they're driving organic views to your videos as well so I think the creative I think like having so just pick one product don't do multiple I think or one the best Tik Tok shop creators and pages in the world are one product the best they are one product how much are you paying kids on TikTok we have an affiliate that was a waitress that was making around $20,000 a year um and she was struggling like really struggling and she was making UGC content so userenerated content for my company for $25 a video and she was just making content so that we can continue to post on the Tik Tok account i was like "Wow this girl is really good let's bring her on and start doing paid ads." She's made over $150,000 in one month she says that her parents have never made six figures and now she's making over 100 grand a month and it's changing her and her family's life through whitening her teeth and wearing sweatpants like that's it we're in a we live in a day and age right now where this didn't exist like Jack you and I know better than anybody like what even is this yeah you know it's just crazy to think about what this could become and what's happening right now and how you could be anybody in the world go get a Tik Tok shop account with a couple thousand followers and change your entire life forever quit your job learn more about yourself work on things that you really want to do go do what's what you're passionate about and that's what's happening people are quitting they were nurses they were full-time students like people will quit and just go all in on content not just with comfort but in general like they want to build their personal brand and I don't think there's ever been a better time than right now is it all short form or is or is there some long form stuff no long form um we do short form and we repurpose it across all of our So you're not sponsoring podcasts no YouTube channels nothing like that nothing huh our affiliates post YouTube videos and they get sales and they go on YouTube shorts and stuff like that as well and they get views and they have their own link and then that's what a lot of the organic like external affiliates do so what is the moat that you have around the affiliates do you think it I mean you could say that the root cause of having a lot of affiliates is having a good product that makes people a lot of money when they promote it but what else is it like how do you have so many affiliates how many so many creators that are in your ecosystem like do you have a funnel that funnels them in it's me um I I am the secret sauce and it's you of why you're building an incredible podcast it's it's us so for comfort it was like we had the product and we had the fit in the market and we had the marketing but building a relationship with every person that works with my company internally was the key because this is the business life it's up and down it's a roller coaster but if you can allow them because even when there's been changes in the company when they would like get discouraged or they would get in their head about something like I'm there every Thursday at 5:30 p.m on a Zoom call waiting to explain to them how we're at the helm and how we're grinding and how we're working through problems and how we're going to solve these things and they know when the products are out of stock what's in stock what our bestselling product is what our best design is what's coming out every single thing about my business they know like me so they're not just an affiliate that works with a company they're literally a part of my business and I think that's what makes us so different is yeah they could we could keep onboarding creators but like the the the churn will be crazy but if you just build a relationship with them and they understand that like you're not just a an asset to them or a product but you're a person um they're they're going to stay a lot longer with you and they're going to listen to your advice and work harder a lot of people have complaints about working with influencers that they're lazy they don't follow ad creatives uh they're not very businesssavvy like how have you been able to either a find creators that post consistently for your product and convert or b convince creators that it's worth their time you might have just answered it but has there been any I Yeah I think I bring out this side of them that maybe they haven't discovered yet or maybe a side that they haven't wanted to really understand yet which is like how [ __ ] bad do you want it and I think that is the question that you have to ask everybody is what is your goal here okay my goal is this i have them write down their goals every month what they want to do some of them text me their life goals like what they want to do in the next five years i want to be married i want to do this like they text me a full list of like what they're building in their life and it's giving them structure and people have it but they don't know like maybe they're missing a step maybe they don't know to write it down they think it and then they forget about it or they it only comes up when something bad happens write down your goals tell me them if you want but if you don't want to share them with me that's fine but write them down and stick to your plan and work hard and I always end my calls by saying "If you're not where you want to be book a one-on-one call with me and I'll break down your videos with you on why they're not performing the way you want." And then I'll get on a call with every one of them and I'll explain to them exactly why their creative is not working the way that they need and then what happens you build the culture more in the community you make them better they make more money they work harder so you kind of again it's this flywheel of like build the relationship first everything else comes second and if you can explain to people your story like I went through some [ __ ] when I was a kid i did not have I did not have the easiest time getting to where I am today it's been the craziest journey ever i could spend 5 hours talking to you about my journey and what I went through to get here but if I explain that to them and I tell them that I'm human cuz they sometimes don't look at me like I'm human and they are like "Oh he's just the owner of this brand and it's a big brand." It's like "No dude i'm a human and look at what I've been through and you're probably going through some of the similar things that I went through or maybe we're going through the same thing but how do we get through it together?" And like you have to just relate to them so much it's relatability it's the same thing in the content like when they make content their relatability to the consumer is what is the same thing as when I'm relating to them it's all relatability throughout the entire process it's interesting it's a really a people business at the end of the day would you say your company's valued at a billion dollars not yet no multihundreds yes but not a billion do you think you're one of the few people that has 100% equity in a multi- What is that nine 10 figure company yeah i would say like there's less than 10% of people that have that at that level because usually you take on capital or you have investors or you have co-founders and partners and things of that nature like if you're 100% in and you don't have to take on capital it's like it's a pretty rare story have you not considered giving any creator some percentage of equity or is it just too valuable at this point i don't I just don't think it makes sense like what are you going to do for equity and and is the money right now more important than the money in maybe a couple years you know and a lot of these people need money right now so I just don't think that there has ever been a scenario where it makes sense i've thought about it for nude because I'm I have a partner in nude um that is not 100% my company i don't have the time anymore so I need somebody who is a great operator to run the business same thing with what Luke and I were discussing with Ben ben is an incredible operator and he has a great infrastructure around him that could be able to manage that business at scale so that business does a 100red million its first year guaranteed that business does over half a billion year two guaranteed that company to have that infrastructure and build that team that quickly you need the best in the world in terms of Tik Tok shop I'm sure you hate getting asked this question by just other ecom guys but what if Tik Tok gets banned where are other people looking is Instagram shop going to come back do you have any information about that have you seen any success on any other mediums or channels no where and and it's so funny like if you hear that people have like an inn and they know what's going on at Tik Tok they're lying to your face i am friends with Bob and David who are the global head of Tik Tok shops and the global head of e-commerce and they don't even know what's going on so it's like if if someone says if someone says to you like "Yeah I know you know what's going No you're lying no one knows." It's so true yeah i had a I had a Tik Tok rep i don't know if I could say that but um I said "Is Tik Tok getting banned?" She's like "Jack I have no idea." And like there's only like a few Tik Tok Tik Tok reps you know she's like I genuinely have no idea they don't know none of them know because they don't it's the government at the end of the day like they don't have they just keep pushing this thing out when Tik Tok went out for 14 hours Comfort did not drop in revenue being the number one Tik Tok shop in the world we did not drop revenue because where are all those people going to go right to Meta right to Instagram and guess what our ads are there waiting with unlimited budgets and bid caps and we're ready to go so no budget no money dropped at all no revenue dropped at all um and I think that if it goes away long term something else will come out someone else will emulate the Tik Tok shop idea meta was so there was rumblings of Meta doing it meta was supposedly going to do it if Tik Tok didn't come back um Snapchat I I just think Snapchat is so they're they're so behind that I just don't think they could do I just think they shouldn't even try their attribution model is horrible they have they'll say they have a 40 rorowaz um they'll say that your company's going to be a trillion dollar company based off of their metrics um yeah you have to get a third party data tool like like an attribution tool like Northbeam uh if you're starting out get triple whale but like yeah Meta would do it next meta would definitely do it next for the beginners what is media buying and what's the name of your media buyer i'm joking um what what is media buying and what's your secret to running ads on social media so media buying is really just spending money on the ads and learning ways that are unique to your company on how to spend money to acquire customers at the cheapest rate like if you're spending money as a media buyer you better know strategy on how to scale with spend spend more money and continue to earn revenue because as you scale your rorowaz should drop but sometimes if you know how to do it the right way it doesn't happen that way sometimes it stays and you can go from 100 to 200,000 a day and you may even see a couple upticks in rorowaz so there's ways to scale ads and my media buyers would not like for me to get into the the specifics of how we run ads but I can tell you one thing that I do that is really and I could say this cuz I started it with somebody and um I think it's one of the best ra way ways to run ads so we surf scale ads so we start our budgets at a certain dollar amount each day call it 75 bucks if the video gets three sales at a certain rorowaz or a certain CPA we scale the video more so we'll put 500 bucks behind it and then if it gets more sales and has the same CPA we or lower we'll go and we'll do $1,000 and sometimes we'll start with $75 a day up to $5,000 a day and we'll put so much money behind one creative and we'll do that across hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ads and what you're looking is that daily profitability one ad may hit on Tuesday and on Wednesday it just is [ __ ] tik Tok is very inconsistent with their winners so the difference you're saying here is that you look at daily ad spend as opposed to monthly ad spend yeah you could look at daily ad spend and No no no we No yeah we don't look at that or is it the methodology in which you're scaling up like the exact numbers like 75 to 300 like what's what's the thing you're teaching other people so you have parameters that you set for your company if you start with let's just say you have 10 ads right and you're doing $100 a day on those ads that's that's $1,000 right but now let's just say you have a hundred ads at $100 a day you know that's $10,000 you don't want to blow your account trying to spend money if it's all going to be unprofitable or most of it's unprofitable so start at a lower daily budget look at what is winning and making you money and then scale that up especially in the beginning like you have to look for that because then it goes to the other thing where you find the creative that works you find the hook that worked you find the middle of content the call to action and then you document that and then you have the next batch of creative duplicate out what that style of creative was and now your whole ad account is winning ads right so like then you win so that's kind of the way that we look at it there's no like one way to like win ads there's no one way to scale ads and be successful there's so many different ways there's so many different methods we met a guy the other day makes 30 [ __ ] Facebook pages and scales ads on 30 different ad accounts like there's so many ways what works for you go test it out and try it but it always is going to fall back on the marketing how important is a good media buyer very important like can it make the difference of like 10x or is it more like 2 3x in No it could be 10x because if you don't understand what your media buyer is doing you could completely ruin your company because they not be they they may not be doing it the right way and then you're not knowledgeable enough to go check and figure out what they're [ __ ] up and then now you're like why is my company not making money why are we unprofitable why are these ads not working and then all of a sudden you're like wait a minute we're running this horrible we have one campaign for every single for every single ad group and we have too many like you just and there's a lot of risk too like there there was one media buyer we worked with that like we had one campaign for everything and if that campaign if something went wrong all of our ads stopped spending so there's a lot that like a a seasoned veteran would know not to do where a new media buyer that like has a great product behind them and they think they're the reason why the ads are winning but it's really just the company's virality and the product it's like they could they could mess up everything are media buyers like is that a job title like how do you become a media buyer you I mean you start somewhere like what's the background of the people that you're hiring like they had their own ecom companies and they're working on yours they scaled they scaled they were a boutique agency and they they were working with bigger brands not as big as us but one of them has worked with brands bigger than us and they worked with a whole plethora of different companies and they just had a lot of understanding of how the platforms worked and how to look at how to look at data and how to understand attribution and you know really like knowing where like your your north star is like the one truth of the company and like the attribution across all channels like that's hard to do you need to be good to understand that like we don't look in meta to understand what Meta is doing we look at Northbeam because Northbeam is going to tell us in a more like like a more granular fashion what is that spend actually attaining like is it is it causing a halo effect on Tik Tok what is the you know what is the incremental growth that you're getting on other channels from meta you can't learn that on meta you have to have another channel that you look for but I wouldn't even know what incremental growth is if I didn't meet these guys you know cuz I don't even know what that word means and that's the truth right like you can't be good at everything where's your spin going is it like what percent of this is organic what percent is Tik Tok shop what percent is paying influencers brand deals uh Facebook ads etc you had to give an idea would you say it's mostly Facebook ads yeah Meta's the Meta is the most tik Tok is second Snapchat is third um h Google is third Snapchat is fourth and then we have we product seed so I'll kind of get into that i think that's really important so we have the paid side down and then you have product seeding where you can use an app called Yuka AI EU ka.ai AI and you can give it the parameters of a bot of what people you want to send a target collaboration to on Tik Tok shop then it's going to sync with Tik Tok and it's going to message those people and then they're going to request samples and those sample requests are going to come up in your Tik Tok seller center dashboard and then you can approve them based off of their GMV how much money they've earned in the last 30 days for brands and then their estimated post rate so if they just like take free samples and don't post product good luck like I don't even care if you have 500k GMV i'm not sending you anything um because I don't like that it's bad business but if you have like over an 80% post rate and you're doing over $40,000 in GMV a month I'm sending you products and I'm doing that to thousands of people per month on Tik Tok that are all going to post because their estimated post rate is so high and then I have thousands of people posting on seating and then I have thousands of people pieces of content going up on every single day for paid ads and then you have the rest of the affiliates that are just posting would you sell your company yeah is this on podcast right now oh never uh no no i I know i'd be open to the idea we may we we may point bring on a partner or something like that you know when you want to scale into bigger numbers you uh you definitely you definitely may need more expertise i'm not uh I don't drink my own Kool-Aid i know what I'm good at and I know what I don't know uh I don't know certain things about the business that I want to learn i don't know wholesale i don't know international expansion i just don't know them my one of my good friends Simon Beard is the founder of Culture Kings he had a great exit he exited for like over $600 million and um he's like the king of retail so like just people like that like their expertise is so great and there's people that maybe you just want to collab with and do work with you got me thinking though um yeah dude i I just had this 18-year-old on he does what is it 25 million a year in revenue with an AI app and it's like something disgusting like% uh profit and he he's like he wants to sell it uh he started it one year ago and he wants to sell it for like it's a calorie tracker have you heard of Cali yeah yeah yeah i just had that kid at 18 years old founder what a [ __ ] genius he's great what a [ __ ] genius dude 18 well you know you at 18 were dialed too bro me at 18 I was like I People probably thought there was something wrong with me like you at 18 dude you were dialed too but like that's crazy yeah they just like developing app yeah because they're it's that's that's that's their this is their like generation now yeah it's like everyone in school is going to be like working on things or I feel like the whole college route is dying out it really is because everyone I think it's coming back do you a little bit because the 18-year-olds I talked to they're like "Oh like they're so successful that they're like "We need to go to Harvard so we can uh have a VC fund and like go that whole rout." Dude that's so niche though like think about the masses like they don't they don't want to go to school anymore you see too many people making money online why would you go why would you go to college if you want to go be a doctor a lawyer and those jobs that everyone says it sounds so cliche like then like you have to go i would want my lawyer to go to school and pass the bar and understand law i would want my doctor doing open heart surgery to really like go to school but a lot of these times these guys don't even get the practice they want like they It's very backwards a lot of this a lot of this is backwards i think we should see a shift soon in the way that I mean even the like how we were taught when we were in school it's like like they don't teach you financial literacy like you don't understand anything i have I have content creators that are in their 20s that are like wait I have to pay taxes on this money that was every Tik Tok creator in 2021 like oh [ __ ] i'm like yeah you do like like and some of them make a lot of money i'm like you're going to make 30 40% on this and they're like really like now what it's We should teach that in school you should learn that very young hudson how did you get into e-commerce originally that's a great question um I saw a couple companies on Instagram that had a product that I searched on Alibaba that were like super cheap to make and I saw what they were selling the product for and I was like "Wow that's a crazy markup." I could only imagine how much money they're earning and then I met a dentist who told me that this is like when the Kardashians were kind of like getting like peaking right i wouldn't even I mean Kim's still freaking peeking but they were all like coming up and everyone was like conscious of their teeth and their health and the cardiians were doing some ads already for teeth whitening companies and we were like "Wait a minute this could be something." And then I picked teeth whitening because I didn't like honestly I don't know i just didn't think of anything else i was like "Okay teeth whiten your first company." Dude that was really white was my first company okay not my first i had another company called Paradigm Luxuries which was a bracelet company that I sold in school um when I was a when I was a junior in school I sold bracelets to my friends and I think I broke even that was it that was my first company so how old were you when you launched Purely White 19 i'm 28 damn bro you were 19 when you launched Pur and it sucked for like ever how long How long were you unprofitable on that company four and a half years why did you think you could make it how are you living i went back to selling cars i was the number one car salesman in the country for Hyundai when I was 19 how much uh money does the number one car salesman in the country make i made a quarter million my first year um as a and then I and this is just for Hyundai there's other car dealerships and people that make more money i just I had the most car sold for Hyundai in uh when I was 19 and then I became a manager when I was 20 and then I moved to LA for a year and I started an Airbnb business where I had like maybe 10 different apartments and we were just doing arbitrage and having them stay in the apartments we were renting the apartments and then renting it out to the air people Airbnbing um and we did that out in it was me and my ex-girlfriend we did that for a very long time for about a year and a half and then I moved back to New York and I got rid of that company and cuz we broke up and it was a whole nightmare and I was young and stupid and then I went back to selling cars i had purely white this whole time i was trying to make purely white work i was trying to find a way to run ads and I had no idea about anything and it was the slowest growth ever and then so you just have like in your house a lot of product just sitting there i had product sitting there and then I had to order new product when it expired um with the money that I was earning from the card how long does it take for those to expire the syringes I I every 12 months like I mean some of them are 24 months but like I just every 12 months I was like I'm not selling this anybody like even if it's unopened so we were just every 12 months changed out and then uh the Snapchat when I was when I was 24 I became a millionaire so that was the year that we had the growth so it was 24 about four and a half years ago and that was when you and I talked it was that year 24 when you became a millionaire and then that's like liquid net worth you mean or like how do you I had a million dollars liquid when I was 24 okay yeah and that was my I thought I made it moment and then I found out that a million dollars was not what I thought a million dollars was which people would probably say how could you say that a million it's just not as much as we It used to be a lot it's just not anymore it's not as much as it used to be it's very sad but yes that was when I started making real money when I was 24 and how much of the money were you keeping from purely white like or spending yourself are you are you pretty frugal or are you pretty like in between on this what would you say i I spent money on dinners um and then I got a place in Miami which was like my biggest purchase um and and that was pretty stressful like I was like am I making the right decision here because comfort was starting to make some money but we didn't know what the real potential was yet and I was I I don't I don't touch any money from comfort actually like I don't pay myself from comfort I pay myself from purely white only so and and consulting um which I just reinvest into like purely honestly like purely white because we the company's profitable but we're coming out with so many more products that I just want to like fuel the company so that when we launch and target it's a real win um but yeah that was my it was it was stressful as [ __ ] when you are making money but you don't know like could it stop it's a very it's a very weird feeling that kind of brings me to the whole mindset thing of like a lot of people that are dealing with that now that's the one thing I get from all my content creators is they say like I'm making money now but like what if I lose it all and I'm like you can't live your life that way you can't think when you finally make it when you're going to lose all of it how does that breed growth you know and we all go through it we've all been in that position where we're like everything's good and we're like "All right what's going on?" When did you sell your first car when did I Oh like sell at the dealership when I was 19 and it saved my life the car dealership saved my life i was depressed i didn't go to college i graduated in night school so I dropped out when I was in 11th grade i re-enrolled and was able because I dropped out like over half like it was already halfway through the year i had good enough grades they put me into 12th grade i finished in um night school and then when I decided I wasn't going to go to college I had like this really bad depression and uh I my mom happened to sell a house to a guy that was the GM of Hyundai and he brought me in and we started working together and he was harder on me than like he was harder on me than everybody else and I was like we're supposed to be like friends like you know my mom he was the opposite he was like the most tough love guy one of the only men that ever intimidated me like I was afraid to like go into his office and talk to him and uh he changed my life he gave me an opport opportunity he trained me he made me great and he made me like tough like my mental toughness was so different i had purpose i had passion i was excited to go to work um until one day I wasn't and that was when I knew that I had to move on i was so good at what I was doing there i was like "What if I could put all that time and energy into myself how could I how great could I be if I did that?" And then I struggled purely White was making no money i went and did arbitrage for Airbnb um I went back to the car business because I had a really bad breakup and I didn't kind of know what to do i went back to what I knew which was like selling cars and then at that time I was so mentally out of the car business that I wasn't even really selling any cars every day that I would go into work I was trying to build my website and try to understand ecom enough to make it work and that was the true like story behind like from the moment I started to the moment Purely White started making money like one day I left work aiden Williams do you know him blonde guy yes that was the guy he was the one that changed everything he doesn't even know that [ __ ] i got to like call him he posted for me on Snapchat and it made us like about four grand that day and I'll never forget I was like I thought like I thought like something broke i was like "How like is like how is like another Shopify getting the sales and somehow we're getting them like how are we getting sales?" Like nothing happened and I forgot that he had posted that story on Snapchat he has nice teeth yep he has great teeth same with Cory yep they both have great teeth dude cory is like a genetic freak um three corey pop up on the screen that man is jacked and back flip and is a talented video editor and has been jacked since he's been like 12 like it doesn't even make sense but yeah so Aiden Williams was the guy um do you remember his username no can't remember i think I thought it was Aiden williams but I think that sounds right yeah yeah yeah yeah i got to hit him up um but that was how it started why'd you drop out of high school i had a rough uh relationship with my family at a point and um I uh I hated school so I was part to blame i hated school and my teachers were um some of my teachers were very harsh and they were telling me I was going to amount to nothing and telling me that I was like worthless almost it was very horrible to hear that from people that you look up to right and I had a couple of teachers that just gave me they it was like everything combined in total and then um I ended up joining a network marketing company called Vimma uh you ever know the energy drinks Verve it was like a orange energy drink that it ended up being a pyramid scheme yeah yeah it sounds like an MLM well like Amway is like an MLM and like there's they own the Orlando Magic like it's weird like some of them are not and some of them are and they're very similar but this one ended up somehow being a pyramid scheme but we I dropped out of high school and I went and did an MLM and I learned about the law of attraction and that actually saved my life the law of attraction the law of attraction and the car business were two of the biggest like the most pivotal moments in my life that changed everything and altered everything forever but who got you into the MLM some random guy DM'd me and said that I should join his network marketing company and I didn't even we weren't friends on Instagram nothing and he said we had a mutual friend and he invited me to this guy's house to hear what they had to say and it was like in this guy's you know this guy's mom's house and the guy who was holding the event ended up becoming one of my best friends and he brought me we actually traveled the world when I dropped out and like went to like Florida and went like to Louisiana and like literally just went on road trips like holding meetings about this company um is this where you learned sales originally yes yes taught me a lot about myself just taught me a lot about taught me a lot about belief and if you can believe enough in yourself you can do anything because you're selling a vision you know and I was 16 so I was I was a kid i was young i was so young i didn't know anything um but I like held on to that like it was law and I was like this will change my life if I believe it will how do you utilize the law of attraction like what frameworks what's your interpretation of it because we talked about hormosi so I'm means you obviously consume a bit of his content and he's someone that says confidence comes from competence uh raw action is the fix of everything so it kind of is the antithesis of this manifestation stuff and I myself am at this weird phase where I'm like yeah but life seems a little magical in some ways and it seems a little bit like if you think about stuff it does happen uh but I'm also like if I point everything backwards it's usually action so what's your perspective no it's law of attraction it's vibration thoughts become things every single thing that we are doing right now everything in this room was a thought and someone took that thought and they made it reality so the way that you think and the way that I think I think of things as if they have already happened so I have the Ferrari I have the Lamborghini I have the house I have the billion dollar business I have the the life of my dreams I have all I have the watch of my dreams I have the best relationship with my family even if time hasn't caught up yet I have all of that and I believe it and I operate at the frequency that I have those things and I believe it so much that it's my truth and no one can tell me otherwise and when you're starting a business and when you're trying to do something that everyone says you're crazy for and you have to be a little delusional and you have to be a little bit crazy because sometimes the people that are closest to you in your life are going to tell you that it's not going to work and they're going to tell you that you're crazy or that you have a great job in the car business why would you quit and they don't understand you but they think that they do but no one does but you and when you can have such control over your mindset you can accomplish anything in the world that's a [ __ ] clip sorry that was good that was good sorry i just We have to cut out the thing about my high school dropout i can't do that to my family no sir my [ __ ] mom would kill me i'm so close to my mom now but I was like my mom and I were like not in a good place so when people bring up like my homeless thing like I try not to like I try to be vague about it because like it's true and like people should know that but like my mom [ __ ] I'm so close with her now you know yeah that's always been a tough one for me because it's like I never want her to look like I never want her to be like you hear people talk [ __ ] about their family that are like big and famous and I'm like wouldn't it be the more noble thing for you to take accountability the situation and fix it and not That's why I was kind of like I hated school too like I try to do that but like yeah we'll cut the whole thing on that sorry no no no i I have the same perspective on it it's like people who don't have relationships with their parents I likely think that you can fix it you know you could I did I It's not for a podcast clip but I knocked on my dad's door after not speaking to him for 5 years and he answered the door and he looked like he saw a ghost and I was like I want to be back in your life like I want to be like I want to be in each other's life and he like looked at me he's like I'll think about it and it crushed me but then one day I called him and I was like I need help with this real estate deal and for whatever reason that altered the fatherson thing and went from like an advice perspective and out of nowhere like our relationship was built now he's like one of my best friends i didn't talk to him for five [ __ ] years so you can fix it it's us though like if you're successful and you're making money and you're doing well like go fix your [ __ ] you know like don't carry that [ __ ] baggage all over the place what's one sentence that at the time felt like it broke you man [ __ ] that's so hard i think Hormosi has one that broke me but I can't think about it right now but it changed the way that I thought about a lot of things i'm trying to pull it out um [ __ ] why am I Why am I blanking do you know what it's generally about cuz I might know it you definitely know it it It was a good one it was about like um one don't be an entrepreneur be an entrepreneur no no no no no it was deep it was like I could tell you one I I think that the the quote if you do what they say and do what they do you will get what they have every single time and that to me made me think a lot about who I was listening to and that also goes into another quote that was watch who you listen to if they don't have what you want don't listen to them and that was hard because that was probably that's probably the best advice I could give to people now that are looking to be great is watch who you take advice from if if your if your uncle Joe is you know works at a pizzeria like if he wants to teach you how to make pizza that's great but if he wants to teach you like how to go be a [ __ ] astronaut don't listen to him he doesn't know how to do it and I'm being very overexaggerating on that but but the point is like how can you teach me business how can you teach me to be a millionaire how can you teach me where to invest my money in stocks if you've never done it stop trying to Because people will they'll project insecurity onto you all the time like it's all they do is they project project and they disguise themselves as people that are trying to help you but they're not they're just projecting their insecurities because they're like "You can't do that." No you can't do that i [ __ ] can i can do anything I want i've never walked in a room and was like "Well that man is better than me that man can do more than I can do he's a better man than I am." I've never felt that way people walk around all the time and they feel useless and worthless and they feel like they're not enough and I felt that way before i felt like I'm not enough but like dude suck it the [ __ ] up and figure it out at a point you have to just say "I'm this person when I was 16." And I said this one other time i signed a contract with myself kobe Bryant talks about it he said "I signed a contract myself i did that i signed a contract with myself that no matter what happened in my life I would never give up no matter what is behind those doors open them bring it on i don't [ __ ] care i will go and deal with anything that you give me because I know the life that I'm meant to live and it's very hard because sometimes it's like you're at this very low point and you think that like how could it even get any worse and all of a sudden it skyrockets up you need to go through those and you ever see that that uh that like it's not a meme it's like a visual on Instagram of the the guy who's like breaking with the pickaxe to get to the gold diamonds or something and the diamonds and he turns around right before he gets there it's like this is the point where most people quit that was a That was Horoszi's quote yeah if everybody Yeah that's the quote the Yeah that's a that's a good one and if most people would quit at this point then if you quit now then Yeah like like like No it's like when you think about quitting you say this is where everyone else did like just be so like I think about purely white think about what the [ __ ] was wrong with me 5 years like dude it's just not working like bro you're so young and that's an ecom brand you know like you were probably listening to people who we scaled this 30 days 7 days like and then people hear dude and then people hear comfort and they're like how did you how did you comfort is the fastest growing ecom brand of all time that's a that's a true fact we are the fastest growing e-commerce brand ever purely white I would say it's probably one of the slowest growing e-commerce brands ever so it's like you look at comfort as like the win no dude there's like five years of [ __ ] that like we had no idea what was going on that's the truth you don't want to believe that because you don't want to like cuz a lot of people then deflect they're like "Well you just made it you just did this you just did that." Like that's the whole thing like I read Instagram comments that's why I hate like that's why you have to have tough skin to have a personal brand because people say [ __ ] all the time and for me it's like ah it's going to happen either way no matter what so like I might as well just be like "All right if you don't like me like I'm going to give you the truth i'm never going to lie to you i'm never going to go on a podcast and lie to people and tell them fake things." Like I'm going to be honest and if you don't like the honesty I can't help you but the honesty is like yeah you have to be a little delusional you have to believe your own [ __ ] and you have to believe in yourself and you can't walk around and be like well h you know I just don't have it or I'm not I'm just not good enough like dude you tell yourself that you're going to become that law of attraction i'm the best i don't give a [ __ ] what you think i'm the best i don't care what anyone else says i believe I am the best no one else is better than me i'm the best in the world at this [ __ ] if you don't believe it cool i don't care how do you think UFC fighters get to be champions you think they're like "Well that guy's better than me but I'm going to go fight him." No dude you walk in there like "I'm the baddest [ __ ] on the planet and I'm going to win." I have friends that in the UFC i have a friend that's fighting tonight his retirement fight Anthony Smith and I talk to him about all the time mindset he's lost like 20 times he's won 40 fights he's been he's been he fought Jon Jones he's been he's been in the UFC forever and I talked to him about mindset and he's like "Dude I just He's like "I believe still to this day that I'm the best no matter every time I lose and I get back up and I walk out of the ring I believe I'm the best." Like he's fighting like physically getting injured and fighting for the like the better of his family to to give them a great life he has beautiful daughters and an amazing wife like guys getting in the ring and getting [ __ ] beat up to make money to put food on the table we're building brands we're not getting injured go give yourself a little like like go look at the other people and what they're doing and then look at what look look in the mirror and be like "Yo can I like believe in myself enough?" It's like go get the thing that I want the most because my thing is not money my thing is like my family my family and my future family that's my why your why has to be so strong stronger than money because money how many how many [ __ ] really successful happy people have committed suicide how many people have like just become miserable and they're they're they're just not happy with their life and they have all the money in the world and they just sit there but they have no one to share it with think about all the people that like would kill to have an opportunity to make money and then when you finally get there it's like what is it for it's for your family dude it's to give to my my two younger brothers i want to change their life you know i want to I want to give them an opportunity to go build a business of their own and I want to go teach them life if we live life one time why would you ever handicap yourself ever it's really interesting what you said about the law of attraction there because from a fighter's perspective if you lost a fight that is evidence that you can lose fights y if you're thinking from the framework of competence builds confidence but if you're thinking from the framework of be confident first then any loss that happens to you doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter you learned because you learn from that loss every L is a lesson right like you that they say that all the time like it is true do you look at it as a loss or do you look at it as a lesson i love losing because I'm really winning a loss is a win for me in my book if I [ __ ] something up I'm like great now I know that I'm not doing it well enough so like my results aren't peaked if I'm if I say I'm doing everything right at all times and I'm the best at everything like I'm the I believe I still believe I'm the best but I make mistakes all the time and so does my team and we all believe we're the best my team believes my CFO believes he's the best CFO in the world and I need him to believe that because he holds a a heavy burden of the brand so but he can make a mistake and if he goes and does a consulting call with one of my friends companies and he learns a new thing good makes him better if you know you're losing and you know why you're losing you're winning correct it's if you don't know that's when you're actually losing or if you don't want to if you don't want to look at it you want to hide it and mask it and not really believe that you're losing or make an excuse for why you're losing because if you know why then it becomes pretty hard to lose at a certain point you know like and that's why you said you're excited to lose because it's like "Oh I understand it now." It's the realization of why we're losing rather than you're actually losing on a new thing so for context Google SEO that used to be the king of all this stuff mhm like how you ranked on Google was how well your [ __ ] sold tik Tok last year became a more searched on platform than Google yes how important is SEO on Tik Tok it's important because if people are typing in hoodie and you're the first company that pops up and they're searching for a hoodie and they buy your product the organic sales go through the roof and it's great for the company because you're ranked first so Comfort is the only clothing brand in the world that has over a million units sold on Tik Tok shop imagine being a consumer going and seeing a company that you don't really know that well but they have hoodies for sale and you're looking for a hoodie and you see that they have a 4.7 rating with over a million products sold and hundreds of thousands of videos made about their company you trust it right like you would trust that now look at the real estate play it's like Amazon in 96 you think about it look at Amazon when they first started out what they were selling books and then they moved on to new things and new things and new things tik Tok shop is the same place they're so beta like they're going to have so many more features and more people are going to adapt and adopt methods to sell on Tik Tok shops but imagine if Nike comes on and now you're typing in uh Nike hoodie but hoodie is there and then comfort pops up because you want a hoodie do you know that two of the biggest brands that we take from the consumers from are Nike and Skiims and you wouldn't know Nike like why Nike but that's what it is so imagine if you have bigger brands now on those platforms and you have a company that's selling a lot and those people are typing in those bigger companies names but you have more sold than them all of a sudden you're ranking higher and you win what's one hire that changed your business my head of growth who is now my chief of revenue and growth she is she could be CEO of my company she's unbelievable her name is Jillian she's she worked at Masterclass and PayPal she's worked at way bigger brands in Comfort and we've had head hunters go in and and I've interviewed some of the top employees at some of the biggest brands in the world and they work at Comfort now and she's one of the best she runs my company she's the reason why I could do this podcast and not stress that my company something's going wrong or an employee is making a mistake or we're not doing something the right way she is like the glue what's the difference between a head of growth and a COO a COO my COO is does all of the inventory for my company so the chief operating officer is all operations right um my chief growth overseas COO no so so COO is is a direct report to me um Jillian is also a direct report to me until she becomes CEO then the COO would would report to her but Jillian is her the people that report to her is the head of growth the media buyers the uh director of influencers um the social media managers the head of social so with ecom the growth side is more important than the operations side no I wouldn't say that operations is so [ __ ] important dude they're so not I wouldn't say one is more important than the other if I have great creative but no inventory I lose if I have a lot of inventory but my creative sucks i don't I'll never sell it you need to have a perfect blend but having a great like I have an inventory manager and a COO they work together they handle all my inventory they work with my a the technology companies to do the pre-order and the dynamic price testing and all those things which are very important for CRO they connect they correlate directly but then the chief of revenue and growth and the head of head of growth and the head of growth is very analytical she's looking through the what would a fine tooth comb all the data in the company right the data scientist is also under the the uh Jillian so now you have the data scientist and the head of growth working together with the media buyers because the media buyers are maybe missing things so you have everybody kind of watching each other's work and they're all doing certain things and then they're all reporting to Jillian but you need to find someone good and you need to find someone that's an A player and I think the difference between a B player and an A player is the A player is going to do it regardless and implement new strategy to the business because they believe that's what what's best and if it [ __ ] up they'll own it it doesn't take me to go tell them to do something that I believe would do better than them telling me that this is going to do better and they trust their gut they're like little entrepreneurs like they're entrepreneurs they're not employees at that point the A players are like they're legit entrepreneurs they innovate they're are innovators to the fullest and that's the difference and that's what you need when you're scaling rapidly you need someone who that can innovate with you and be another perspective for you because we may be geniuses in our own way but they're geniuses in another way and if you combine the two you hit a home run who's the most impressive person you've ever met i [ __ ] saw this clip on your Instagram and I watched it in advance and I still don't know okay let me see that's good marketing guys i want to say my mother and I'll tell you why the truth why single mother three kids GED late30s on child support becomes the number one realtor in New York State and remaries and my stepfather's the CEO of Douglas Elellman which is the biggest real estate brokerage in New York and he runs the Hamptons right so you have that growth together they started with nothing she was she literally had three kids running around so you have that woman who knows nothing about working in that industry in that job let alone having three kids and then goes and makes it and then continues to win so I know that feeling now like I know the feeling of like making a hundred million and then having to go do it again cool you made 100 million great that's a huge accomplishment do it again now she does it every [ __ ] year year over year number one number one number one number one how do you do that you know how hard that is like that is so impressive like you just and you innovate and you find new ways and markets change markets change the economy changes people change the way that percentages and commissions change and then you're still number one across the board no matter what like that to me is so impressive that that's part of the reason why I am the way that I am because I've watched her deal with adversity and be able to be great every [ __ ] day with no days off even when she's sick that to me is like wow what can I do 20 years 24 years younger and with a world of technology that she wasn't accustomed to and didn't even have when she was a kid now I get to have all of that i have all these tools at my fingertips but you were able to do what and build what you built with with a GED and three kids and almost being four years old like that to me is unbelievable so I would say her i hate to ask this but I've never had someone with such an impressive like with a parent with such an impressive resume uh to be honest last person was Michael Frenzies who's from the same part of town that you are uh do you know who that is yes I do his father was a big mobster but yes I've seen clips of him yeah yeah but uh Yes what's one thing your mother taught you then she taught me to listen and not always speak i would speak out of insecurity i would always talk and be the loudest one in the room because I was trying to mask the fact that I didn't know enough yet and she just told me "Shut the [ __ ] up and listen and maybe you'll learn something." And I've taken that approach into so many different uh so many different aspects of my life like I'm around billionaires that I'm in a room with that are impressed by me and I'm like I hope that I don't have to talk because I just want to watch you guys and learn and it's the same thing you just brought up with your you get to meet amazing people on your podcast and you probably learn so much from them so it's sometimes it's great to like you get to ask a question to get the answers that you want right like imagine if I could just sit in a room and watch people talk all day i had Anthony Smith at a dinner i had the owner of Clean Skin Club the owner of Javi Coffee the owner of Bickl Men's Products which is a huge hair pomade on Amazon and I had the owner of one of the largest construction companies in Ohio and then we had this master marketer my friend Brandon who owns he was he was um he's on Instagram he's Bowski B O WKY he's uh he like managed 9 billion in assets for like like life insurance he was unbelievable anthony Smith is a fighter who's looking for his next thing he's sitting in a room with us we're so impressed by him cuz we're all UFC fans we all just want to hear him talk about who is going to win the fights on that Saturday when Patty Pimble and Michael Chandler fought and all those guys and he's sitting there and he's like taps me on the shoulder and he goes "Hudson I learned more from this dinner than I feel like I ever have in my entire life just listening to you guys speak over dinner has changed my perspective on everything that I want to do when I retire." Imagine just sitting and getting a able to listen to people at a high level that's all I want to do now so yes that's a long answer to what my mother taught me which was to just shut up and listen and it works what's the best piece of advice you've ever received the best piece of advice I have ever received was thoughts become things and when someone told me that and if you really think about it long enough and hard enough you'll understand that a lot of the outcomes in your life and things that happen to you or for you happen because of the way that you think if you can think things into existence which we all have and we all know exists off vibrations and frequencies you can alter and change your entire life by thinking the right way so once I learned that my entire life changed and it took years but I believed every single day that it was happening and one of the things that I did was every morning I just said that how grateful I was and I said "If I could look for three things that I'm grateful for every single day um all of a sudden every day I'll wake up and I'll be looking for things to be grateful for." And that changed everything for me instead of looking for like what was wrong like if I ran out of [ __ ] toothpaste like I'm looking at like how grateful I am to just wake up and get up and walk and if you could do those things like just your whole frequency changes as a person your energy is different the people you attract is different everything what's the worst piece of advice you've ever received be realistic to elaborate on that there's no such thing being realistic is the box that you put yourself in being realistic is whatever the [ __ ] you want it to be so go be optimistic because you could just conquer anything in the world if you just believe that you could do it but what's realistic it's different to everybody it's an opinion like yeah it's just that's it's deep if you really think about it but you determine your reality 100% 100% be realistic but it's your reality not other people's version of it well everyone uh this is the Jack Neil podcast this is your guest Hudson Leo Grande where can people find you my Instagram is Hudson that's it beautiful that's all I got no Tik Tok so hit me up on Instagram awesome guys uh see you peace brother of course