Transcript for:
Building a Personal Brand in the AI Era

Right now, we're in a phase where AI is becoming more realistic than ever. And I think there's just going to be so much AI content out in the next year. And then eventually after the year's over, I just think people are going to get tired of it. And yeah, the real raw people are going to win on social media. Again, there's all this misleading advice like whenever people talk about hashtags, posting times, what to put in caption, all that. Then I immediately know like, oh, you don't really know what you're talking about. Content creation, in my opinion, is it's the one thing that anyone can honestly do. like it doesn't take capital. Anyone can create content and anyone can get themselves out of the position they're in right now. Okay, so today's guest is Zeta. I call him the ultimate framework guy because he's the expert that I go to when it comes to building a profitable personal brand. And so the story behind this episode is that 12 months ago I recorded with him for the first time in New York. That episode is loved. Zeta even told me that he still gets messages about that conversation to this day. However, here's the thing. Since we recorded that video, social media and content creation has completely changed. All because of one thing. That one thing is AI. And so, fast forward to today. I took a flight from New York to Toronto to learn the new way to monetize your content in this AI era that we're currently living in. And so, in this episode, Zita shares his simple three-step framework that will take you from literally having no followers online to building a loyal audience that buys from you. And our intention with this conversation was simple. We were going to leave nothing off the table. And so the first part is actually recorded in a studio similar to this one. And then we actually went to Zeta's apartment so he could share his screen and do an indepth walk through of all of the AI tools he's currently using to create his content and run his business right now. And one more thing before we get into it. This video was one of our most ambitious projects to film. So, watch till the end, subscribe to the channel, let us know how we did. Anyway, you're listening to the Callum Johnson show. Let's get into it. Where I wanted to begin is for the person that clicked on this video, they're sitting at home watching this with the belief that it is simply too difficult to be a content creator in 2025. Like, the market is too saturated. Too many people are trying to do it. it's impossible to get traction. Every single time they post, it feels like they're yelling into the void. To that human being, what would you say is the value to them of listening to the conversation we're about to have? I think the main things that we're going to go over and I think it's very important because I don't think enough content gurus or people who teach content kind of talk about this is number one, how to actually attract your ideal customers. Because typically if you're creating content, you're most likely doing it to either grow a business or sell product. And if you just attract whoever, you're not going to sell to anyone, right? Because the phase goes, right? If you're marketing to everyone, you're marketing to no one. So number one, show you how to actually create content that attracts your exact ideal clients. Then the next phase after that is how do you actually turn them into paying customers? And that's through specific uh content strategies, messaging in the content, and even the back-end funnels, right? The stuff that people don't usually talk about. we'll talk about here. And then finally, how do you actually scale up your business through content without doing more work? Right? As your content starts to grow, as you start to get more followers, how do you not get burned out from creating the content, but also operating the business with fulfillment, onboarding, and doing all the, you know, boring kind of stuff. We'll go over, I guess, how to basically scale without doing more work by applying leverage into your content and in your business. Okay, that's awesome. I'm I'm excited for it. You know, I think one of the things and this is this is why I like talking with you. Not only are you someone that's doing it for yourself and like doing it using AI tools and like the new way of doing it is you've also helped a bunch of other people get to 20K a month, 30K a month through being content creators. And so I'm curious for you like for that person sitting at home, what have you seen is like the tangible impact um the change that actually happens in people's like content journey and building a personal brand when they start implementing some of these lessons, some of the skills that we're going to go over. I think it's number one. Again, I think attracting the right people is such a big thing. I think everyone nowadays, they're just copying whatever's out there, what's going viral. Like I see literally, I think I scrolled like the other day on Instagram, I saw three posts the exact same hook, same idea of the content, and that's good for getting views, but it doesn't really attract the people that are going to buy from you. It's what I call like low ticket content ideas where essentially it might attract the person that maybe buy like a $27 product from you, but it's not going to be someone who's going to like spend thousands on you. You need to learn how to create what I call high ticket content ideas that showcase your frameworks. It showcase why you're the best solution to the problem right now and it showcase why they should even trust you as well. So, I think that's one of the major things I try to help people with is just crane those ideas and position them in a way that's unique to everyone else in the market because I always tell people it's like I guarantee for whatever niche you're in, give me like 30 minutes, I could probably find 20 people that are selling the exact same thing as you with a bigger audience. So, we need to figure out a way why should they buy from you over these people with bigger followings and more case studies or more social proof. And that comes from repositioning yourself different to the market and creating content that actually attracts the real buyers and people that have the money to spend on you. You know, I think I think it's such an important point because and I even remember this from our first conversation. One of the points you mentioned is like there are creators who have hundreds of thousands of followers, but like the revenue, the amount of money that they're making on a monthly basis is like a very small uh like in comparison to their follower count. Yeah. And so there's a lot of unprofitable creators out there. And so, you know, one of the um I was on your Instagram and I was reading like your pin post. Yeah. and you say, "I went from zero followers to over $150,000 followers and $2,000 a month to $30,000 a month in 12 months." And that was me having no previous experience, being extremely camera shy, having massive imposttor syndrome. Yet, I pushed forward and now I'm making more money than I ever have before. And then you finish it off. You say, "You don't need 150,000 followers to do the same thing. You only need a thousand true fans. You know what? Before we kind of get into the framework piece of it, I want to give people like a part of your story almost if you had to zoom out and give us like cuz I I know there's so much that goes into that. Yeah. But like the the highs and the lows, like the three highlight moments from that journey. Yeah. What would you say like what comes to mind for you? Oh, I mean it's been it's been a long journey. I'm trying to think of the three main highlights I would say. Number one is actually learning that more views doesn't uh correlate to more income because when I was first starting like I was just focused on getting views. I was like, "Okay, if I get more views, I'm going to make more money." Because the reason I started creating content was just to grow my business and get more clients, get more brand awareness. Like that was the whole reason I started creating content like two years ago. And I was posting for 3 months straight, literally getting nothing and like 200 views on each post. And then I finally had a video do really well. Wasn't even associated with anything that I was like uh doing as like a service. The video did really well. And I had a bunch of other videos do really well too. Like in a two week span went from literally maybe getting um I would say maybe like 10,000 views in a month to I had over like a million views in that month. And literally the revenue barely changed. So like from that moment I was just like you know [ __ ] this I'm only going to focus on not views anymore but focus on m two major metrics and that was how many viewers am I getting are actually turning into customers and then number two was how much time am I spending on each piece of content compared to the results because if I spend hours on one piece of content that gets views but makes no money and I spend 30 minutes on a piece of content only gets 10,000 views and makes me maybe gets a client or two that's way worth more of my time. So, I'd say that was the first highlight was that kind of moment in realizing more views doesn't equal more money. And that happened pretty early on in my content creation journey. I still think there's people out there who have been posting for years that still don't understand that, which is crazy to me. So, I'd say that was one of the biggest highlights. Uh, number two was I think it was the introduction of AI and automations to help with content because I think when I started doing it, chat GBT was just becoming a thing really. it was becoming popularized and really diving into chatbt and all these other tools and learning how to number one do like content research to help with the scripts and flow of the scripts even with the editing and using different ad tools to help with my editing team because I had editing team at the time just making everything much more efficient to number one get the content out faster not feel burnt out and still be able to actually work on my business without creating content all the time. So the introductory of using AI definitely helped and adopting and continue learning like every single day I'm continually learning about AI, learning more about AI agents, how to help that with content, experimenting new things because as you know it's just constantly adapting like there's new AI tools every goddamn day now. Yeah. And then the last highlight I would say in this whole journey was just I think it was just like the opportunities that kind of came from that I never even realized when I first started doing this. Like from content again I only did it to get clients but from it I've been able to work with a bunch of cool brands. like one of the biggest ones like I got flown out by Adobe to San Francisco to attend their like uh AI leadership summit which is crazy cuz like a few years ago I applied for Adobe for like data science and they rejected me. So a few years later to now get flown out crazy like turnaround. So doing stuff like that getting invited on podcasts like this like in the last I think month I've now done like two podcasts which is insane. I'm still like why the hell would anyone listen to me? because I still have that still have that little imposter syndrome like yo I think I know what I'm doing but like the fact that a ton of these people hear me and listen to me still a little crazy and just all the other things that come with it you know I was able to go to my dream destination which was Italy and live there for a month I'm Italian background but I've never been to Italy before so being able to have that financial freedom really through content being able to do that that's really been like the third highlight which is like all these opportunities that have come my way that I never would have even like thought of when I first started this journey. Yeah. You know, you know, it's funny even just listening to you uh say that I think for so many people uh listening at home, it's like that's the thing that you want like just that uh that level of freedom or like the autonomy over your life. Uh being able to go to cool destinations, being able to create uh content and spend your time doing things that you actually love doing uh and be respected for it. And and and one of the things that was interesting to me even when I was just thinking about this conversation is like I would say personal brand and building a personal brand or being a creator, the creator economy. There's such overused terms now. Like there's so many people giving this advice and then there's also so many people that are like trying it and are frustrated and disillusioned and feel like it's not working for them. And so I'm curious for someone in your perspective for the people that are like trying this, they're trying to post, they're doing the thing, maybe they even had a viral post and then it led to nothing. What is it about the advice that's out there that like it just isn't working for people? Like where do you see people even when you're working with clients like they're kind of getting lost in the process? Okay, quick break. Your home just became smart thanks to Alexa Plus, the sponsor of today's video. And let me tell you how. So, Amazon just released Alexa Plus. It's a new version of Alexa that connects multiple large language models to tens of thousands of services and devices. I've been using it now for a few weeks, and here are some of the things that I've noticed. So, the first one is that it's easy and intuitive to talk to. No more robotic commands or deadends. You can talk to Alexa Plus like it's a friend or a real person and it keeps up with your train of thought. Meaning you can jump from dinner plans to weekend trips then back to dinner plans. The next thing that I noticed is that it actually personalizes itself to you. It's like having a personal memory bank directly in your home. If you tell it once that you want to try that new Thai place downtown, then a few days later you say, "Book that Thai restaurant I've been wanting to go to." It will connect the dots and know exactly what you mean. And that actually moves me on to my third thing that I found. Alexa Plus can actually take action on things. For example, I used it to book dinner reservations through Open Table. Also, when I'd get back home from work in the evenings, I'd ask it for music recommendations and then it would start playing the songs directly from my playlist. And so, here's the good news for you guys. Alexa Plus early access is rolling out now and it's free during the early access phase and so I had to get you guys right. So go to the link in the description to request access. That's the link in the description to get your free access to Alexa Plus. Thank me later. Let's get back to the episode. I think it's just a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of competing advice cuz like you said, there's so many people now teaching content cuz anyone thinks, hey, I got like a couple views on a video. I can now teach this and I could sell something that teaches this. And there's so like there's so many people out there. Literally, I literally had a client the other day or a client I just signed who's like he's literally he literally said to me, he's like, "I'm surprised you're in this niche cuz it looks like there's so much competition out there." And I'm like, "Yeah, dude. Like everyone thinks they're an expert at content." And what I tell people is just like there's all this misleading advice. Like whenever people talk about hashtags, posting times, what to put in their caption, all that, then I immedately know like, "Oh, you don't really know what you're talking about. Because to me it's like a good piece of content will do good no matter what. Like you don't need all these little hacks here and there, right? That's not really going to do anything. It may help your post by like 5% maybe, but it's not anything to really worry about. So for the people I always mention them to this, like don't worry about the content as much right now. Focus on number one the messaging. Focus on how do I retain the viewer? And you do that with watch time. So always look at your watch time. Look at your hooks. look how you're retaining the viewer. And then number two, just look at different formats that are working and just study your own content. And that's the best thing you can do for anyone is like look at what you've posted for the last 30 days. Look at the posts that did the best and then look at what you did in those post compared to the posts that didn't do well. What were the ideas? What were the hooks? What was the exact format of the content? Did you start with a bold hook then go to a personal story or did you do a bold hook then immediately go into the value? Just look at those little small things. And from there, you'll ear you'll get more data to then improve your content to number one get more views and number two also hopefully bring in again the right people because if you're creating the wrong people, then it doesn't matter at the end of the day how many views you get because it's not going to correlate to anything, you know. So, uh, we're we're going to get deeper into it and and it's cool because we're actually going to go like we're going to go to your setup and literally show people like how you produce the content that gets you sales. I was I was thinking this about this on the way here. We had a we had a conversation actually before recording this and one of the things I was telling you is like I want to show people like the new way to build a person like a profitable personal brand. um and like an audience that actually buys from you and I was like you're kind of the frameworks guy in my mind like what's the framework for it and you basically what you broke down is like this threephase approach to how someone can go about doing it can you just break down big picture like when you say a threephase approach and the way that you do it like just give us the give us the context like give us uh give us that background. Okay, so it's basically made for let's say you're someone who's just starting out with content creation or let's say you're making let's say two to like 8K a month, right? You're not quite there till like 10 20k a month, which is usually the goal for most people starting out. So the three-phase framework that I kind of created or made up is just to break it down very simply into the phases that you just need to go through to actually have success, right? Really simplify it. So phase one is all about number one, just grow a following of your ideal clients or ideal customers. That is the only thing you should focus at the beginning. Don't worry about products so much. Don't worry about offers. Just focus on growing a following of your ideal customers. And again, we'll get to this a little bit more when we go back to my place, but and it's just creating content that goes down what I call a content funnel that gets people actually into your ecosystem, which means they just follow you and they see your content regularly. Then nurturing them, showing they are an actual expert and leader in your space and you have this solution that is different from anyone else out there. And then also building that trust and connection with them because at the end of the day, people buy from people that they like and trust. So, if you can build that trust and connection, that's how you can sign clients with only like 2,000 to 5,000 followers and beat out the other people that are maybe selling the same thing as you, but they have like hundreds of thousands of followers. So, that's like kind of phase one. It's just creating content that follows that content funnel to attract your ideal clients. And we'll even go a little later into how to use AI to help create that content. Phase two is then now that you have those people following you, how do you actually turn them into paying clients? And that's usually a lot of the backend stuff. So, it's about creating like lead magnets, about using automations to get people into your email list. Um, pushing them to sales assets, which is basically videos that just help sell your offer. So, and you can do this all with AI and automations to do this automatically so you don't have to DM every single person and constantly have conversations. So, that's just more phase two, building out the backend stuff. Then phase three is just, okay, now that you're signing clients, how do you actually scale up to potentially like 30 50k a month without doing more work? And that's by creating like leverage in the business by not constantly creating new products. Create one product, offer different levels of access and find ways to automate again content creation. Find ways to automate different stuff in your business so that way you're not spending hours every single day on just tasks that can be automated. So that that's basically the three-phase framework that I kind of walk through everyone with just to really simplify the process. And what I found is like just doing that, simplifying it, when they just go through those phases and like work on those one at a time, it leads to much faster success for most people. Yeah. You know, you know what? When when when we even had the conversation before this and you uh broke down the content funnel, to me that was like a light bulb moment because I think and and I think this is uh this was my experience when I started doing content and it's the experience I hear and see from a lot of other people and beginners when they start doing content, which is in the beginning, you're kind of just firing into the dark. like you you're not you don't really think about it like I'm creating different kinds of posts and and and that's one of the things like in the the content funnel you actually break down the different kinds of posts and like the utility of each. And so before we get out of here and we actually show people like you know we share the screen and really take people behind the scenes, can you break down what is the first of all the inspiration of the content funnel like what's the value of it and then what are those like different almost layers of content and the utility of them. Yeah. So to me the content funnel came to me by just understanding and if you're in marketing you'll probably know this by understanding like the customer awareness journey or the buyer journey which is like how does someone go from someone who doesn't even know you to then buying your product. So when I thought about that I thought about how do I apply that to content? Well for the first po first part is right we need people just to see you that's number one right because right now they're unaware that you even exist. So, the goal then is to create what I call engagement content, which is very broadlevel content, like here's here's how I would grow my Instagram account from scratch. Here's five tools that will help you edit faster. Here's three AI tools to help automate your business. Like very broadlevel content that can apply to a very broad audience. That is kind of the first content you want to create just to get people in your ecosystem, just to see um just for you to show up on their feed and they see that they'll be like, "Oh, that's some good information. I'll save this. I'll maybe follow this guy. That's the first thing you want to do. And then after you're able to create some posts that attract those people, okay, the next step now is to make them more problem aware and solution aware. And to basically do that, you want to create what I call authority content where essentially this type of content now showcases they are just not another tip creator, which I call people that are just giving out tips all the time. They're just kind of the same tips you hear from like other creators, right? You just become someone that they could probably just find that on Google. they don't even need to watch your videos, but you become a leader in the space. And a leader, what leaders typically do is they shift beliefs and they shift your perspective on how to get results, right? Because let's say you watch um a video of mine and I tell you about the best posting times, right? You're going to be like, "Okay, cool information. Scroll on to the next video." You might save the video. But then if I create a piece of content and I tell you about why posting times don't matter and why you should actually focus on this thing instead. if I'm able to shift your beliefs on that, you now see me as more of a leader and expert because I was able to change your thinking on how to get a result. So that's the goal of authority content. And usually for that type of content, it doesn't get a huge amount of views because again, it's not really broad. It's more showcasing your knowledge, but essentially you're trying to give insights over value. That's what you're doing. You're just trying to share analogies, give insights. Like literally I scripted out a video the other day talking about how most people are creating what I call dollar menu content where essentially it's like you're creating content um that gets a lot of views but like a dollar menu like a McChicken or a Junior Chicken, it's not worth like a,000 to $3,000 to someone, right? That's why you got to create more in-depth content. And that script or that post I created, the whole goal of it was just to shift someone's beliefs. That's why I know the video is not going to get 100,000 views because it's not optimized for that. but it's optimized to get those people who watch my engagement content to now see me as a true leader in my space. And then the last type of post is more personality posts that build more trust and connection because that's really now the last step. Once people see you as an expert and a leader, they really just need to trust that you're someone they want to work with and that they could get results. So, you do want to add a sprinkle of social proof here and there, but you really want to create trust content which showcases your more what you believe in. um it showcase your values just in life, you know, outside of work. And if you're able to get someone to relate to you, like be like, "Oh, I'm very similar to this guy." First of all, so much easier to make the sale. But I feel like that's the part that's missing for a lot of creators, even myself. I need to do a better job at doing that. Like, I'll leave in a minute. But creating that trust and connection content, again, even might not get the most amount of views, but if you're able to get someone to be like, you know what, I've gone through what this guy has gone through. I relate to this person. I do similar things as this person. Um, again, where they are ready to buy and they are ready or they're looking at solutions online and they're trying to get help, they'll go to you versus all the other competitors they see out there. Yeah. You know, the the part on like shifting beliefs is so good because I I think and and you see this all the time in the space like the almost like that stereotype of like the the talking head like someone's just and it's like this very transactional form of content like here's five tips, here's this and like you're just like firing to your point your analogy of like the dollar menu. It's like you're just loading people up with like empty calories. Yeah. Yeah. and and that that thing of like the connection that it builds and the trust and like the way that you stand out when you can actually shift someone's beliefs that's difficult to do but if you can do it is like that puts you in a completely different lane. You're not just seen as like again a resource creator, someone exact carbon copies of everyone you see out there. That's what really makes you stand out. When you have a belief and you stick by that belief and you constantly create posts talking about that belief, eventually if you're able to shift someone, you're definitely you're now standing out versus everyone else. Yeah. Phase one, attract. Yeah. Build a following of people that will buy from you. And what you said is you said the main goal here is simple. Get as many views as possible and attract new followers. But not just any followers. the right ones, not just any followers, the right ones. Can you explain that? Like it break down those components. Okay. So, first of all, right, when you create content online, if you're creating it on a very broad topic, you're going to attract a lot of people that will never buy from you ever. So, that's why you always want to optimize your messaging. Because if you don't optimize your messaging, again, you're going to be like me back in 2023 with a lot of views, nobody buying, and then you hit that like, what the [ __ ] do I do kind of moment. So, that's why it's so important to create content that attracts the right audience, that makes them aware that they have this problem, makes them aware that you have a solution that can solve this problem, and positions you in a way that you're different from the rest of the market, and they see your way of getting results as the best way, and that's why they go with you over anyone else. Okay. You know what? So I think um we were talking about this before like the content funnel. Yeah. When does that come into the process? Like break that down to people and then also even for these different types of posts, what is the intention? And then what are like some examples of this being done well? Okay. Okay. So I'm going to let you in on a business secret that I wish I knew earlier. 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Go check it out and thank me later. Okay, quick break. So, I've been using the new Eight Sleep Pod 5 for a few months now, and honestly, it's changed the way I sleep. For context, we're in the peak of summer in New York right now. Humid, sticky, the kind of night that would usually leave me tossing and turning. But the eight pod cools my bed down automatically through the night, so I actually stay asleep. And the cool thing, it's not just a cold mattress. The pod learns how you like to sleep and it actively adjusts the temperature throughout the night so that when your body starts to heat up at 3:00 a.m. the bed actually cools down. Another thing, it also tracks your sleep data. So, your heart rate, your breathing, sleep stages, and every morning you get a report. It's convenient and it's informative. And so overall, the pod has been clinically proven to add up to an hour of quality sleep per night, which might not seem like that much, but let me tell you, you can feel the difference between 6 hours and 7 hours of sleep. And so, if you're ready to upgrade your sleep, use the link in the description to get $350 off the Pod 5 Ultra. You'll also get 30 nights to try it out totally risk-f free. Thank you to Eight Sleep. Let's get back to the episode. So, yeah, we go into it right now. So the first type of post that and there's three of them that I recommend everyone to create is what I call an engagement post where the goal is just to attract new followers and new people to follow you. And these posts sit again at the very top of your content funnel. And the main goal is just to attract new followers. And the best type of content that does this is very simple how-to content that either number one solves a problem or gets people closer to a desired result. And you've probably seen it. It's like here's like five of the best bicep exercises to grow bigger biceps. Here's how to here's three AI tools to help you better with editing. It's very simple dumb down content that does the best on social media. So like some of the best again again types of engagement posts are like step-by-step guides like here's the five steps to get like the first thousand followers online. Showcasing like a hack in your industry to get some sort of result like here's an SEO hack to help you rank higher on Google. Uh different tools again showing different tools in your niche. A listical too. And then if you want to see some examples of an engagement post, for example, here's one I created that got over a million views on social media. And essentially in this post, all I did was don't start posting any content until you've done this one thing. Go to chat and type in this prompt. And then basically like we won't watch the entire thing cuz it's kind of long, but basically in this video I just showed people a prompt to help them understand their ideal customer persona. But it was a very broad dumb video where I literally just I knew the video was gonna get views. Like I knew it. I just gave people a prompt that maybe they haven't seen before and I just gave it away at the end of the video. But again, this is something where it's not unique to me. Like it's doesn't have any of my unique insights. It doesn't show any of my unique thoughts on how to get results. It's literally if you wanted to get this prompt, you could ask Chachi to create this prompt for you. Mhm. But because it's simple, it's broad, it's very it gets people result very fast, that's why it went viral. But again, I knew like this the whole reason for this post was to get more views. It wasn't to actually turn people into clients. Yeah. And then here's like another one too. Like in this one, I showed people this one got like 1.4 million views. I just showed people like if you stack these three AI tools together, you'll get more views. And that was like the hook here. If you stack these three websites together, your views will explode. start with lazy lines and I just went into each AI tool. It was a very short video like 30 seconds said like a sentence for each AI tool. But again, very simple, very digestible. You would probably save this video and then go check out these tools. But again, it doesn't show how I get people results. It doesn't show really how I solve people problems. I'm just sharing some AI tools that literally any other creator in my space can also create. Yeah. You know, look, let me come in because and I even said this uh in the initial. I said the goal here is simple. Get as many views as possible and attract new followers, but not just any followers, the right ones. So, there's kind of like two steps to it, right? There's like actually just getting the views and like the attention on your content, and then the step two is like making sure it's the right people. When you said, cuz you said it with the first reel that you showed, you knew that that was going to get views. Like, you knew that that was going to go viral. What are Cuz I think there's a lot of people sitting at home right now. They're struggling to make content that even gets views, let alone getting to the piece like it's getting the right people. Yeah. So, what to you is the signal like when you have that level of confidence that it's going to get views. What is doing that? So, I would say number one's actually research because this video right here, the three the stacking the threeey tool, I took this idea from another creator in my niche. He was like, "If you stack these, I think it was I think it was if you stack these three eye tools, uh, you'll edit your videos faster." And that video blew up for him. And I like that format. So, I took the same format of stacking these three tools. And then I just showed tools that I know people haven't heard of before that's different out there. So, whenever you're new and you're trying to create content, you do need to take a look at what's working in your niche right now. What formats are working in your niche right now? Because different formats work for different niches. And you just have to adapt and figure out how can you make the video better. Like what's missing in the video that you wish was in the video and then add that in. And that's like the simplest way for you to get views is by copying what works. But the problem with what a lot of people are doing is that that's all they're doing. And so people are only creating those engagement type of posts, which is why some people have like hundreds of thousands of followers but aren't making like any money at all. Okay. So because we're going to we're going to show people how you actually go about even just finding the viral ideas and like even doing that research. But you know what? Just before we do that, let's go let's go down the content funnel. Then let's go to the authority. Yeah. Post. What is the intention of this? like how does it build on what you did with the engagement post and yeah like what are some examples of great authority posts? Okay, so let's say right the engagement post, let's say you had a video go viral. You have all these new followers that are going to come in, right? Right now, they've watched maybe one to two pieces of your content. They're like, "This guy gives pretty good advice. Let me hit him with a follow." They're not ready to buy from you yet, right? They still just see you as like this resource creator that's just giving out pretty good tips here and there. To get them to really see you as like a leader in this space, because leaders are the ones that will get paid. That's when you have to create more authority post to again really establish your expertise and shift beliefs because typically for authority post the whole goal of it is to shift their beliefs and make them rethink on how to get a certain result because when you I put it right here when you help someone rethink their approach you become seen as more of a true expert because now you've changed their behavior. Anytime you change someone's behavior, someone's thoughts immediately they see you as an authority immediately. And when you do that, you just don't become again another creator just throwing out tips that you can literally find on Google. Like those stacking the three AI tools you can find on Google, you can find from another creator. The goal of authority post is really show your knowledge in the space and create content that other people can't create. And that's the goal with it. And then some of the best types of authority posts in my opinion are ones that share like a big idea because typically no matter whatever niche you're in, you have an idea about the niche that's maybe different from common beliefs. So like in mine, right, a lot of people maybe say, "Hey, here's how to get views. Here's how to get views. Here's how to get views in my niche." Well, my big idea is why focusing on views is keeping you broke, right? So if I can shift your belief and shift your thought on maybe, hey, I shouldn't go after just views. I should focus on attracting the right people. I'm immediately elevating your mind. I'm seen as more of an expert and a leader. And then some other types is again just giving out hot takes like controversial takes always work to help you stand out. Talk about the old way of getting results versus the new way. So you kind of [ __ ] on the old way that people are doing things and then you show kind of your new way and why it's better. That helps position you as um just different from a lot of the other people out there. And then even going deep into like struggles people have and like really giving them the sauce to get out of those struggles. That's interesting. So you you kind of you start with like um this is the belief that most people in the industry have cuz I guess there's different ways from like a psychological perspective of going about it. So, one is like here's what I believe and it directly contradicts what everyone believes. And then you have uh I think the hot take is probably the thing that we're like most familiar with seeing on social media. It's just you have a completely different opinion. And I'm assuming even when you do this cuz even in your example, you say Instagram is not dying, you're just using it wrong. So it's like it's just that that brevity and just like how concise that hook is. It almost like it punches people in the face in a way like Exactly. If you go like immedely against what people like one of my best hooks I ever used was like I made more money when I start posting less because it's immediately people think like that doesn't make sense, right? You're always told if you post more you'll make more. So how is that possible? So it intrigues them and they want to hear more about how you're able to do it. Yeah. And then I I love that final one, the deep struggles, which is basically I'm assuming this is you just understand so deeply the pain point of uh your viewer of like the ideal person that's going to watch and you can articulate it in such a level of specificity that it's like, okay, he's just described to me where I am and then he's described the journey of how do I get to where I want to be. Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. Like literally, if you can really go into someone's pain points and you can mention everything they're thinking and you're able to then get solve that struggle again, see you as so much more of an expert. And that's just the goal with authority. It's like show you as an expert. Show that you're unique in a way and that you understand people's problems and you can actually solve them as well. You know what? Before we before we actually show the examples, because I know one of the things that um you talk about is like the ICP. Can you you use AI in that process, right, of like figuring out the ICP? Yeah. Because I can even just for the person watching at home, getting that level of clarity on the person that they're trying to reach and then what their pain points are, I think is going to be of such like high value to them. Yeah. Uh can we quickly show that like how you actually So basically yeah whenever you're trying to figure out your ICP which is ideal customer u persona essentially it's just like what do they do every single day like how do you get in their head what do they think about what are their deepest struggles desires and it's hard to do especially if you're new uh and you're selling anything online it's really hard to hone that in so what I found works really well is actually using like chat GBT's deep research model so basically if you scroll down here I have a prompt prompt that basically helps with this where all I do is I use this prompt here and then I upload this prompt into chatbt and we actually tried this out before. I just upload it into chat GBT here. Upload this entire prompt and then I just give it a document of info about me. Just basically my story, who I'm targeting, who is like my perfect customer. I just give it all this information and then using their deep research mode, it gives me such a detailed uh it gives me such a detailed description of who my ICP is. Like it literally gives me a deep dive here. Like if we read it out, you'll see here like my uh day in the life of my like ideal avatar is like meet Alex, a 34year-old online coach who wakes up already anxious about what to post today. Over coffee, Alex scrolls yesterday Instagram stats. Couple hundred views, zero inquiries again. They spend an hour filming a tip video and get a few likes, but no new clients. It's frustrating. Alex has been following like all the post every day advice regularly. Like this almost perfectly matches exactly who I'm going for. And that way when I think about Alex, because that's what I do for every script or video I create. I think about my ICP. I think about this guy named Alex. And that really helps fine-tune the messaging so it really resonates with them. Yeah. And you know one thing because we do the same thing with the show. That line of like it's frustrating. That's immediately where my mind keys in because that's like the emotion. Like that's the feeling. As soon as you can kind of get the feeling of the ICP or the viewer or whoever like it is that you're targeting, that's when it like you really lock it in. And if you can speak to that emotion, that's really when you start to capture people. And also just context for people. We are gonna put the document that you're showing in the description. So, if you want to use the prompt, like literally as we're doing this, you want to use the prompt, you can do that. Okay, cool. I want to see an example of like an authority post. Like what's something that just stands out to you? So, here here's two examples again by me that I posted. so I can speak on them a little bit more, but this is an authority post I created where I basically explained like I didn't really give any tips out in this video, any tools or anything. I literally just explained how you need to stop posting educational content and what to do instead. So, you need to stop posting educational content if you actually want to grow and make money. Here's what to do instead. For a long time, I only posted educational content, how-tos, step-by-step guides, quick tips, and while my following did go up significantly, my business wasn't seeing the same results. So, I made a change. I shifted from just teaching how to do the things to explaining why they matter. And that's when everything changed. The truth is, if you're posting educational content, your audience sees you as a resource, not the go-to expert. You become one option among many online. The secret is to post content that shifts mindsets. Instead of just teaching how to do something, explain why it matters. This type of insight driven content positions you as an authority and attracts higher quality leads who aren't just browsing for quick tips online. They're invested in getting real results and see you as the one to guide them. Make the shift in your content and I guarantee you you'll see a difference in the quality of your leads. Yeah. You know what? Ju just quickly before you go in cuz I think this will be beneficial for people. The it feels like the lens of like how you judge a good engagement post is like the virality like how many people did I attract? Yeah. What for you, like when you watch this back, what is like the metric or even just watching it qualitatively where you're like, "Okay, this did a good job as an authority post." Like, what are you looking at? I'm typically looking at watch time, I think, is the biggest one because if you're going to say something that's opposite what most people believe in, they'll pretty much stick on for longer for a longer time in the video. So, I'm trying to look like for the first couple sentences that I said, was I able to attract them enough? Did I say something that changed the way they're thinking and got them to stay throughout the entire video? Because let's say like if I'm again because the whole thing is like if you watch this video, this is not optimized for virality at all. It's really not because you're it's not super broad. I'm not giving any tips or value. There really is unless you really resonate with the message, there's no reason to really save the video. But my whole goal with it is again shift the belief of the viewer. Make the make the viewer believe that the way to actually grow a profitable personal brand isn't about chasing views and posting educational content. It's about creating content that shifts mindsets. And again, for someone watching the video, if they now think, okay, you know what, I've been posting educational content. I'm not seeing results. Let me do what this guy says. And they're able to see, let's say, better results from that. Immediately, I'm seeing as an expert in their eyes. And then whatever I buy or whatever I'm selling, they're more likely to now go at checkout and potentially buy. Yeah. And you know where my mind went just listening to you is uh the chat GPT prompt that you show is so good because if you want to shift someone's mindset, it's important that you know where they are. Like it's important that you know their current pain points, uh their current desires. And a lot of the times it's like I think if you just go through the chat GPT exercise, you'll start to have content ideas purely off just doing that. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Let's move on cuz I want to go to the I want to go to the personality posts. Yeah. And that's to build trust and connection. Talk to me about that. So essentially, we're now in we're really in a day and age where, like again, I call it like a trust recession where it's really hard to build the kind of trust with someone now for them to spend thousands of dollars on you, right? They typically need to see you across multiple platforms. They need to really resonate with you and they really need to build a connection with you. So, if you're only posting authority and education, what I found is like those are really good for showcasing your knowledge, but they're not so great for building trust because at the end of the day, like people don't buy from experts. They buy from people they like. If people only bought from experts, they would only buy from like the top dogs like Iazi, Alexozi, Russell Brunson, whatever. But they buy from people that they resonate and feel like they almost live like a similar life or they have a similar level of thinking. So that's why it's so important now to create personality posts to build that trust because if you're able to get someone coming back for you, not even what you're saying, just because they like you so much, they'll watch any piece of your content, that is the best thing and that's what's going to sell people more than anything. And then to create personality post, these are typically the hardest post to create in my opinion just because you really have to like dig deep into like your own personal story. You have to be vulnerable typically. So, the best types of stories is like personal stories like how I almost quit content creation until like this one thing changed. Sharing behind the scenes content of like maybe sharing like what you do as a CEO or just, you know, even if you're a baker or something, showing behind the scenes of how to get ready for the shop, sharing any big wins that you accomplished that maybe is even outside of your business, just sharing big wins that you're proud of. And definitely like vulnerable moments is probably like the biggest thing because if you're able to showcase your vulnerability online, people just really resonate with that and they really love it because a lot of people are even too afraid to even show themselves on camera. So when you're able to be vulnerable again, build massive trust with people to showcase just they're not all about wins, but you also show your losses too almost. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because when we uh when we were recording earlier, you said uh this is probably the one type of post that you could do better. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. What made you say that? I think it's because again for me too I can definitely open up more about my personal life about big wins and struggles. Like even for me like it's still hard to do because I'm so much in like I love giving out value. I love it. Like I love giving out raw real no BS value. Like that's the content I like to create. Personality stuff. Don't really like to create too much but I know it's important. So like I even myself have to hold myself accountable and be like okay I need to post like a personality post. I need to show people my life a little bit more and showcase the wins and losses cuz that is what's going to build a lot of trust and connection. And that's probably the biggest thing I could do right now to even scale my business faster cuz right now I think I've shown I'm pretty technical but yeah showcasing the behind the scenes stuff. Yeah, definitely. I'm curious for you and this is this is so good. Was there a moment of clarity with that where like you it actually it was almost like a light bulb moment where you realized this is actually the one type of content that I could be doing more number one but even more importantly a moment where you just saw the impact of like doing personality posts well. So I'll show you this. There's one video I created that I always like to reference to. So, basically, I created this YouTube video where essentially this YouTube video two years ago, we'll let it play right in the background while we're just doing this. Basically, this YouTube video for context, I got flown out by Adobe for their AI leadership summit, which is again such a cool opportunity. I couldn't believe I was a part of. And then after filming or oh, after doing the event, I literally just went back to my hotel room and just talked about that experience. And I talked about how when I first started creating content, never did it for any of the opportunities like this to get flown out or brands, everything. But now I'm just like so happy I took that leap, created content cuz all these things came my way. And I was just preaching to like business owners, hey, you need to start creating content because you can have this, this, and this happen. Things you never even thought of. And it's just a leap that you need to take. And then basically from this video, I had a ton of people reach out to me. And this video is not even a crazy video. It only got like 900 views, but I was able to sign like two to three clients from this one YouTube video. Doesn't really give any value. I just talk about like my own personal things that have happened to me and just talk to the camera. Like this is like super raw. It's unscripted. I'm l just kind of yapping away. I'm that that's kind of like a because I think you're right and you said it earlier. So often we equate the number of views is must be directly proportional to how much like how successful or how much money the video makes. And so like even that thought that like you could put out a video that gets 900 views and that could lead to more customers than a video that got 50,000 100,000 views is like even that is like a that's a light bulb moment. Yeah. It's hard for a lot of people cuz they see that number. A lot of people don't get to 50,000 views in the first place. So like that's their goal first. But then you do it's a hard realization to come to. It's really hard if you're just starting to not focus on views because that's what everyone focus on. Just views, views, views, views, views. Like but what I found is like for most people they'll focus on the views as first, but then after that it's like okay the views is never going to translate to money if you only focus on views. Unless you're just going after like brand deals or something, but if you actually want to sign clients, you need to create content that actually attracts the right people. The problem with that is that that content that dives super specific into their pain points and the messaging doesn't do the best on social media because it is very broad. You know, I'm uh I'm curious for you like how does someone know when they're getting this right? Like what is because I'm even just thinking about the mix because you have the you have the authority post, you have engagement post, you have personality posts. What like take us behind the scenes like what are people going to feel if it's actually working? If they're getting that mix right? Yeah. I think number one what they're going to see is that they're going to attract more of their actual ideal clients. They're going to comment more on their videos. And then whenever you do want to like do a promo or sell anything, you're going to notice a lot more sales for your product or service. Like that typically is what you're going to see. And you're just gonna see a lot more people like messaging you in the DMs. You're going to build more relationships with people cuz more people are going to want to conversate with you and just ask for your advice because I've got a ton of people who always just ask for my advice in the DMs. They'd be like, "Yo, bro, I love your messaging or I love what you said in this video. Um, can I get your advice on this and this and this?" And typically that's when I know that you've done something right with your content when you're actually now starting to build a community of people and they're really resonating and literally watching almost every video you post. And and I think it goes it goes back to that thing we said right in the beginning about the difference between having followers versus the thousand true fans. Yeah. And it's like I the thing I like even what you were saying with the personality posts and this is what I know from my own story a lot of the times and it kind of goes back to the imposter syndrome. We don't think our stories are like that interesting. So we don't want to share like vulnerable moments or like behind the scenes story moments cuz we're like who cares about that? Like people click cuz they want to make more money or whatever like the desire that they want. And kind of the secret is is what you were saying, people buy from who they like. Yeah. And so it's like if you can get that piece to it, it takes it to another level. Um, okay. Here's where I want to go next cuz I know that you use uh Midro and a lot of like other AI tools. Yeah. Or a few other AI tools to actually help you in this process and kind of make it quicker and faster. Can you break that down? Okay, so let's go into it. So, there's basically I think I got like five steps here on how to actually use AI to create content a lot faster. And we're not going to use a bunch of AI tools. We're just going to use some really good ones that will do exactly what kind you're looking for. So, step one here is always to figure out who your exact ideal clients are. We kind of already did that with the ICP. So once you after you know who your ICP is, you know exactly who you're targeting, then step two is to what I say find proven content ideas using AI because the easiest way now to get views or to see what works on social media is do research. Like I'm such a big proponent on research in terms of content like I think research is king and one of my favorite AI tools to use is called midro.com. Now I have it opened up here and basically for mero they have these two really good features that I love. The first one here is called their viral library where essentially you can pick your niche and it will give you like hundreds of thousands of videos that went viral in that particular niche. So we'll show it here real quick. So right we have all these niches here and here I'll zoom in a little bit. We have all these niches here. Now I'm in content marketing. So I'm going to pick content marketing and we're have all these videos here that have gone viral that I can actually take a look at. There's me right there. uh that I can go ahead and take a look at and like let's say I want to look at for example this video that got 1.3 million views and I want to actually study the video. What I could do is click on insights here and it's actually going to show me the topic of the video, what the hook of the video was um and then I can see the actual stats here, but also the best part is like the video. You can see the script. That's that's the best part, right? So I can see what exactly said in the video. I can see how the video is structured. I can see the duration of the video too because that's extremely important. and I can see maybe what's missing or what I need to add. So, this has been amazing especially like even for our clients too. Like I literally just go to like whatever niche they're in. Just quickly if you if you go back to that Yeah. Uh and and you open up the insights. So let's say let's say that you're doing like let's say that we're behind the scenes with you now and you're like planning out your next video and you want it to be I don't know like a viral video similar to this like your engagement post. you click on this insights, what's the first thing you're paying attention to? Like what is the what is the first step in this? Okay, so it really depends on what is what do I want people to take away from the video? If I want it to be an educational video, the primary metric I'm focusing on is saves because typically what I've seen from a lot of people is like the more saves you on the video, the better, especially if you have more saves than even likes. So what I'm looking is I'm not even even so much looking at the script. I'm even looking at the video itself and I'm looking at what can I add to potentially get more people to save the video because this video is about I'm pretty sure it's like never post on Instagram without turning on these three settings. So I'm even thinking in my head I'm like okay are these three settings are they compliment do people already know about this? And let's say people already know about you know number two that the guy says in the video can I replace that with something else that people haven't heard about before so that way the video then gets more saves. So, I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about what I can interchange inside and out because again, whenever you're going to take someone's video, don't take a one for one. That's just stealing. Just take the core idea of the video. The core idea of the video is don't post on Instagram until you turn on these three settings, right? So, I'd want a same core idea and just give like different value. Different value that I think will get more people to save the video and just whatever I think can actually be improved. Maybe the buildup to actually delivering the value can do better. Because typically when I think about videos, it's in a very simple framework. It's hook, buildup, value, and then basically like the CTA. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, so because this is what I'm hearing is first of all, you have and I guess this is just from doing a bunch of videos as well. You have an idea from watching his video why it worked. So like you kind of know the core of why it worked and what made it successful. You kind of take that core, but then the actual components of it, you're kind of you're finding your own twist. Yeah. And the way that you think about the twist is like you want your video to be memorable because you want saves. Yeah. Which makes sense. So like if you can give a unique piece of value, it increases the chances that someone's going to save it and if they save it, it disproportionately pushes the video in the algorithm. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. That's good stuff. Yeah. So this is just one of the main features I really love here. The other one's called Viral Finder where essentially you could put in anyone's uh you can put in anyone's profile link and it will give you like the most views from like the last like you can pick here the most views from the last 25 50 75 or 100 reels. So like if we want to show this like for example we can even like use my profile here literally just copy my link here go to Valve finder oops go vinder paste in here and let's say I want to get my last let's just say 50 reels we'll analyze it all right this might take a couple seconds so and it and it's because you're you're kind of looking for the you're looking for the spike right like I'm assuming that's the reason why you would do this you're looking for the thing that like it was it was an anomaly. It did way better than the average. Yeah. I'm not even not even for myself. Usually, I would use this for a competitor. So, let's say I would find someone in my niche who I think is killing, right? What I want to do is I want to take a look at their most vile videos. So, I would use this, put their name in this tool, get their most viral videos, and then again with this with Mro here, I can actually get the scripts as well. So, I can put it all into a dock and I can analyze, okay, what are the common hooks that they're using? Is it like an emotional hook, a negative hook, a bold hook? How are they building up to the main value? How do they present the main value? What's their tonality even in the videos, too? Literally just looking at everything. Because when I'm able to get like five to 10 scripts from one creator, you're going to start to see repeatable patterns. And you're going to start to see what are the little tiny things they're doing that's maybe boosting that video out a lot or gets a lot of people to really love that video so it gets a lot of views. Okay. Okay. This is big because when it where my mind goes is when you're a beginner and you're starting out, probably the biggest thing that holds you back is you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. So, what I mean is is like when you're watch when you watch a video, you pay attention to certain details because you've just done it so much. Like everything you just broke down like the emotional hook, the negative hook, the most people that's going to completely go over their head. So when it actually comes to like breaking down what makes a video successful, where do you even encourage people that are starting to begin? Because most of the time they they'll have no idea what about the stuff you just mentioned. I would say first thing just look at hooks, right? That's the most important part of any video. If you can't get someone past the first three to five seconds, rest of the video doesn't matter. So just analyze hook. What hooks in your niche are working? look at the patterns like what what's the verbal hook they're saying what's the visual hook which is whatever's happening on the screen at that said time and then what's even the text hook which is like the text on the screen uh that you just put to give some more people context about what the video will be so that's the first part is understanding hooks once you have hooks then you just need to figure out what am I optimizing this video for am I do I want to get more shares do I want to get more saves do I just want to increase the watch time and then once you have that goal in place that's going to help you then create the rest of the video because if I just want the video to get more views, right? I'd make the video a lot shorter cuz shorter videos do better. I would make it more clear. I would have a bold or negative hook that would really capture people. But then if I want to get the video more, for example, saves potentially even having a longer video that really goes into depth on something. So then people are more likely to actually go ahead and then save that video. Yeah. You know, that that's so good. I think one of the things that I started to do when I really started to analyze and understand this, I would I would almost zoom out and think about like what parts of the video resonated with me. Yeah. Or like I would even even for hooks I would think about what things were memorable to me. Cuz if you watch videos back to back to back, like say you watch five videos, there'll be one that you kind of remember more than the others. And then I'll like dig more into I'll be like I'll ask myself questions. I'll be like, why did that one more why was that one more memorable? What was it about the hook or these aspects or the way that it ended? And so it's almost like you can start to teach yourself using yourself as like a case study. You can start to figure out why certain pieces of content resonate. Yeah. Um Okay, cool. Let's let's switch real quick. Let's show the viral photo. Okay. So, basically with this, right, this just got my last 50 reels here. So let's say I now want to organize it from the most views, right? It's going to organize everything from the most views. And these are the most views of my last like 50 videos. So now, for example, if this was a competitor, I would take a look at their most viral videos. Take a look at that. The the likes, the caption, the watch time. Here they have it. And then you can even download these videos too, which is really cool for me, Dro. I could download those videos and have them or again I could get the script. And right now it's just like loading and getting the script for us. it'll pop up in a couple seconds. So, that's what's really good. And then I'll do the same thing. I'll analyze the video. Why do I think it went viral? How can I make the video better, but this is just really good if there's like one or let's say there's two to three creators you really like in your niche that you want to create similar content as, you can use this tool to look at their most vile videos, download them, put them in a doc, look at the scripts here, and then create similar content like to them. Okay. Okay. And this this is important. Let's say that someone they're following along with this and they're at that point in the process. They've kind of found the video that they're like, "Okay, I have an idea and I want to almost model and take inspiration from this video that I've used using Midro uh or any of these tools. Like I found the exact thing. How does someone go from the inspiration of the video to like the step one of a completed video on their side? Like how are you doing it? Okay, so what we got? Okay, so basically yeah, finding out the content idea first. What is the whole video going to be about? And then actually I have this here. I'll show you right here. So the first step here, find a proven idea. Second step is now scripting that content idea even with the help of AI. So again the this is exactly how I write my scripts here. Step one find a proven script idea. Step two figure out these three things. What type of video do I want to create? Do I want it to be an engagement, authority or personality video? Cuz any content idea you think of can be one of those three. Like for example, give me any content idea. No, I don't even know. I'm thinking sales business. I don't even know the content idea. Uh, how to go viral on Tik Tok. Okay, perfect. How would engagement piece of content would be like this. Engagement piece of content would be like here's how to go here's how to get more views on Tik Tok or go viral on Tik Tok in five simple steps. That's an engagement very broad appeal to a large amount of people. Now, an authority piece of content, let's say we want to convince people why Tik Tok is actually better than Instagram. So an authority might be like here's why going viral on Tik Tok is actually much better than YouTube, Instagram or whatever, right? Shift their beliefs because if I'm teaching people to go viral on Tik Tok, if that's my target audience, I want people to think that Tik Tok is the place to be. So I got to shift their beliefs a little bit so to go more on Tik Tok. Then a personality post could be like here's how I went viral on Tik Tok um after I start after I posted 30 days in a row or something like that. Just talk about personal experience. So like any content idea you can fit into like those three buckets here. So my first what I first think about is like okay what um what piece in the content funnel do I want this piece of content to fall into? After I figure out that then next it's like how can I make this video better or different? So how can I make the hook better? How can I make the value better? How can it pres be presented in a more clear and better way? If I think I can do a much better take on the video I will then then do that video. And then just the last thing here is like will my exact ideal clients find this video useful? Right? Because if they don't, there's no reason to create it. So if it follows those three things, typically I'll be like, okay, this is a good video. Let me go and create it. And then step three is typically what I'll do is I'll typically rewrite the video myself. Like I'm very manual in scripting just because I'm very specific on things. But let's say I have no idea, right? Let's say I'm doing this for a client. I have no idea about their niche. I just want to rewrite like a proven video script, then I'll show you kind of a prompt that I use that will help with this. And the main prompt that I or sorry, the main AI tool I use for writing is cla because in my opinions the best for creative writing. So, what I'll do is I'll go here. I'll just copy the entire prompt that I have. Copy this. We'll go to Claude. And again, we'll share this in the description if people want to try it. Yeah. And then what you're going to see here, it's going to ask me a couple questions. First, it's going to ask me for an onboarding dock of a client or whatever. It's just so information it has about me, too. So, we'll just do that real quick here. All right. Perfect. Okay. Then, after we upload that, the next step, it's going to ask me what is the topic of the video I want created. So, let's just use, you know, let's actually do a random one. I think it would be more fun if we just do a random video with people. Yeah. So, let's do viral library again. We'll go to my niche, which is content marketing. Actually, we'll even maybe take that same exact video we saw before. So, let's go to content marketing. Let's actually take this guy here, Ethan. He's a Toronto creator. I know him. So, shout out to him. So, this video is like how to I believe it's on how to script your videos, right? Actually, here we can even see in the insights here. Topic. Oh, the and but therefore method for scripting videos. Perfect. So, we'll take that. Let me copy this. We'll put it into Claude here. Paste that in. This is really like the secrets that we're giving people. It's fire, right? Yeah. And then it's just going to ask me to paste the proven script in. So then we just go back here, copy this script, go back, paste it in. And then it's going to ask me if do I want a growth or conversion script. So again, growth a growth script is more like an engagement video. Very broad, beginner friendly. conversion script. Again, aimed at shifting the viewers's belief. So, it's more of authority based video. So, let's say I want this to just be a growth video, right? We just want to go viral. We want to get more views. And then after this, it's now going to give me six hook options that that I can use for uh hooks just because I like picking my own hook. I don't like using Claude or Chatd to really just give me like one hook. So, let's see. So, we have hooks here. So, why do your videos feel boring even when you have great content? This one scripting method will make your videos 10 times more engaging. Not bad. Every Val video uses the this exact same script structure and you don't even realize it. That's probably really good. We'll probably use that one. So yeah, even here it gives a recommendation here. So we'll use number four for the hook. And then lastly, it's just going to ask me what do I want the ending of the video to be. Do I want it to be a call to action? Do I want to promote anything? We're just going to end it with a takeaway here. And then essentially the script will then be created. So it's going to take the information in the proven script. It's going to rewrite it and basically create now this unique uh script that still has that core idea but it's not the same as like the video. And then basically like this won't be the full complete script. I'll go in I'll change a bunch of things. Um but if we want to read like the top half here like we'll see this. So here you go. So every viral video uses this exact script structure and you don't even realize it. It's called the and but therefore method and it's the secret to keeping viewers glued to your content instead of scrolling away after three seconds. Here's how it works. And connects ideas and builds momentum but creates tension, keeps people watching, therefore delivers the payoff and resolution. Let me show you exactly how to use this and then it'll go into like in-depth and all that, but it's actually it's actually pretty good. Like it's like the it's clear and it's like fluid. You know what? Okay, before before we kind of move on to uh before we kind of move on to phase two, one of the things I was curious about, especially when it comes to using AI, I think one of the things that we've all seen is like the creator or even when especially when people post on like LinkedIn or Twitter and they've clearly used AI to create their content and you can like feel it because it sounds robotic. Like we've even you'll even see sometimes yeah people will send email and you can tell they've used like AI to generate the email and so how does someone take because I think this is actually really good for people that starting out especially the way that Claude kind of guides you through the process. My concern is as though you still need that like personality and actually sounding like a human. So how do you take this and get it to a place where it sounds like your voice? Yeah. So typically what I do, again this is almost like 80% created for you. Now the other 20% is again going in and just making it really feel like your own script. And typically what I like to do is instead of saying how to in my scripts, I like to say how I just share from a personal lesson like here's how I use the and but therefore method and then talk about my personal experience. I give a sentence about my personal experience because immediately then it feels like it's not written by AI even though maybe 80% of it might be. Yeah. So that's the first thing. And then number two is just using like certain phrases that you use just in natural language like putting that in like reading the script and be like, well, I wouldn't say this line like this. I would probably switch these words around or I would say this sentence like this way. Do that, right? Make it feel like you make it not feel like, hey, I wrote the out the entire script and you're just reading off like a teleprompter. So that's probably the main ways that I go about changing up scripts typically to make it more sound like me is just read it out loud and if it feels uncomfortable, you know, you need to switch something cuz now it's not natural language to you. Yeah, that's very good. And you know, we're going to even in the document that we include in the description, we're going to include your checklist that you use when you're like doing these posts. Yeah. Um, but I love that point of like instead of talking about how to, talk about how I because instantly once you do that, it will force you to talk about your personal experience. Yeah. So, it instantly personalizes the content. I think it's so good. You know what? Okay, let's move to uh let's move to phase two, which is the automated sales ecosystem. And you say step two is convert. Turn your followers into actual paying clients. Now that you're getting attention, the real goal is to turn that attention into income with the automated sales ecosystem. Okay, let's just let's start in the beginning. Yeah. What what is the automated sales? It's okay. So, it's my name on a very simple system to convert followers and viewers into actual customers. So to give you a sense of it, right, Instagram alone, it's very hard to convert people just because they see you for like 30 seconds a day. You typically need to them follow like a salesunnel to really nurture them to get them to buy quickly and not within like 3 months or 6 months. So essentially what the automated sales ecosystem is, it's a combination of different platforms that you move people through where it really gets them nurtured and gets them again takes them through that buyer journey of making them go from unaware to problem aware to solution aware to going to a consideration phase where they're now like they want this solution. They're considering their different options on what to buy and then they go into the decision made mode which is like okay I have all these things. Okay, I'm going to buy this thing. And how do we make that thing the thing that you're selling? So, how it works is it's basically broken down into three steps, I would say. So, the first step is just to give out a lead magnet in exchange for someone's email. So, if you don't know what a lead magnet is, it's just a free resource you give to someone uh where in exchange you get their contact info for them getting it. And typically the best lead magnets are like microlead magnets where basically you're helping someone get a result within like one to two minutes or one to five minutes. So some of the best lead magnets right now are people creating like specific GP GPTs to solve one specific problem and then people will give their email to use that GPT. So, that's the first step because you really want to kind of take these people off Instagram and put them into your own direct communication channel because the problem with Instagram is like if you have 10,000 followers, maybe 20% of them will see your posts. Like Instagram really chooses who needs to see your thing. So, you can you can see it in the analytics. Yeah. Like it shows you in the analytics how much of your followers the percent of your followers that are actually seeing the post. Yeah. And usually it's like a small minority. It's so tiny. Like it's ridiculous, but that's why you want to get them into a direct communication channel where you have control. So, so email is like the best one cuz if you have 10,000 people on your email list, 10,000 people will get your emails. It's just up to them if they want to open it or not. So, that's kind of the first step there. So, basically what you want to do for the funnel is you want to create a piece of content that gives out this lead magnet, right? So, let's say I'm creating a lead magnet on um let's just say I give like a database of like background music, right? Because background music is a problem a lot of people have nowadays. It's like finding good background music. I would create a piece of content talking about that problem and then at the end of the content in the middle somewhere, I would talk about how I have this free resource and if you want it, hey, comment this keyword to get it. And then you can use a simple automation like many chat, even this one right here that I created that you guys can clone when you get the stock where essentially after someone comments on their video, it's basically going to ask them, "Hey, thanks for commenting. You're looking for this resource." Right? Right. Basically what happen is they'll see a button, they'll press this button and then I just say, "Awesome. Just making sure. Now to get the resource for free, just please leave me your email below." Then when someone leaves their email, I automatically, this is a little bit more intermediate, but I have an action here um that will automatically add them to my email list. So I'm getting emails from Instagram and then it's automatically sending them my lead magnet to them. Now, so that's kind of the first step is to give out a lead magnet in exchange for someone's email. Yeah. Okay. So when cuz I feel like we've all seen this on Instagram when the creator at the end they said like I don't know reply Tik Tok or reply background music to get the and then as soon as you reply you then get a DM. Yep. That's they're all using Many Chat. They're all using most people are like 99% people are using Many Chat here. Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk about like because the lead magnet just giving people something of like tangible value that will get them a result in like a a quick space of time like whatever the thing is that they're dealing with the the little mini pain point. Can you talk about the impact of the lead magnet? Cuz I think that that this is kind of a step where I can see people like skipping over like these people already follow me. Why would I need to give them a lead magnet or get their email? Can you talk about like tangible impact that you've seen from creators setting up lead magnets? Okay, so let's just talk about the marketing side of it, right? The marketing side and sales side is like if you give someone a lead magnet again, capture their email, you can always now retarget them with emails. Even if you have a promo or a launch, people don't buy. Then guess what? If they never watch a piece of your content again, they have their email. you could send it to them again in a few months or even like the next month. So that's number one. Number two with this with giving out a lead magnet is like if someone wants your lead magnet, they're a warm lead. There's someone who has a problem and they're like they raise their hand. They're like, "Hey, I want a solution to this problem." Which means they're they're now a potential customer. And then after you even give your lead magnet here, you can even add like another automation or a text box here where now you just try to do or ask them like an open-ended question like, "Hey, by the way, are you what are you currently struggling with? I may have some things to help you out." And then you could continue that conversation and try to get them on a book call or just sell in the DMs. So that's just on the sales side of it. And then the thing about it too is like if you deliver a really good lead magnet and it gets someone a result to their pain in a very minimal amount of time, they you've now built so much trust and credibility and they just see whatever you're selling as more premium. So there's a lot of benefits to creating lead magnets and post them. Also too, whenever you give a lead magnet out on your content, if it's a really good lead magnet, you'll get a lot of comments on your video which also boosts the video. So it's like there's only positives to literally giving out lead mag. I've never seen a negative of it. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. And you know, we're going to get into kind of like how someone like the step two and the three like how someone can build off this. But before we do, when because here's the thing and and cuz we're even work I'm even working on this. When someone sits down, they're like, "Okay, I'm going to create a lead magnet." Yeah. What in your mind? Because there's so many things that you could create a lead magnet on. How are you kind of refining and deciding this is where like this is the specific thing I'm going to do the lead magnet for? Yeah. And then once you've done it, this is actually a really good lead magnet. Like what in your mind like even when you see it from other people or even for yourself, you're like these were the traits of a really good lead magnet. So to me it's like it has to be such a niche problem. It's like basically you don't want to solve a huge problem. Your lead magnet should not be here's how to grow 10,000 followers on Instagram and you give them like this huge step by step. To me that's not a good lead magnet just because number one there's so many things that exist like that on the market and you can watch YouTube videos too. But if you can help solve a really really specific problem that makes for the best lead magnets. Like for example, one of the best lead magnets I ever posted. Um I gave it out on Instagram, but it was basically this SOP to hire your own content researcher, which is not something that's talked about really at all. And it was one of my best performing lead magnets. Like the video got like I think 5,000 likes. The comments on the video to get it I had like 7,000. That's 7,000 new warm leads because of that because I was targeting such a small problem that there's not another resource or video really out there for it. So to create a really good lead magnet, just focus on like a splinter problem. Like it's a pain that they don't have the solution and then that make the lead magnet almost that solution where it's like, okay, that pain's now done and I don't need to like figure this out on my own. I have something that can help me. Yeah. You know, you know what's and and this was such a big learning for me because I think the thing is when you tell people to focus on like uh what do you almost like a splinter problem like it's a such a small it's like so specific uh it's so like hyper niche the concern that people instantly have and it's what I had is is it too niche where like there's just not enough people and especially in the beginning where like you're struggling to make sales or get traction you're like oh I don't want to like limit myself by being too specific. Here's the thing though, and this is what I realized is when you go niche and hyper specific, to those people that are suffering from that problem, it feels like you're making content just for them. Yeah. And and that might be one of my biggest learnings. That might be the most powerful effect that you can have on a viewer is when they feel like you're speaking and creating just for them. Like when we talk about trust and like building connection with people, that might be the biggest thing. It's like this guy made this video for me. Yeah. This is the guy that was meant to teach me. This was the guy that was meant to I was meant to buy his product. Like everything follows from there. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely, dude. I 100% what you're saying. Yeah. It's good stuff. Okay, cool. So, the big thing is getting the email. Yeah. Lead us into step two and then like what happens with that? Okay, so right now you've gone someone's email, right? They've gotten your lead magnets. Perfect. They you've got them in your email list. Right now, typically, if you have a really good post, 80% of those people that watch that post are probably going to be non-f followers or people that have never seen you before. So, because of that, they have no idea what you sell or how you can help them. So, that's why we have to get them again to go through that buyer's journey of being unaware to aware to knowing you have the solution to being like, you're the guy. I want to buy from you. And a way to do that that I found to do that is creating what I call a new lead sequence where essentially right after you get someone's email, you basically just send them five emails over five days that really nurtures them and gets them through this buyer's journey. So here's typically how I structure mine. Email number one is where I just welcome them into my email list. I tell them, hey, you can expect these kind of emails from me. Here's also a bit about my story and here's also the lead magnet. I promise in case they don't get in the DMs or they don't check the DMs. Then email number two, which literally comes one day after, I just make the prospect more aware of the problem that they have. So, let's say um one of the main problems that my ideal uh target audience doesn't have or has is they have a trouble signing clients. And I make them more aware of this problem that like, hey, if you want an easier time to sign clients, you need to create content. You need to get on organic marketing. Right? So, that's what I would kind of do in that email. Number two, I would use personal stories, examples to make them aware that yo, this is a problem that they need to solve right now. And then email number three is basically where I make them more solution aware. Talk about a personal story about my story or a client's story where we took that problem, we able to solve that problem and break it down how we were able to do it. So that makes them now solution aware that there is this thing out there that can solve this problem. And then email number four is now where I try to direct them to my YouTube VSSL, which is which we'll talk more about in step three, where the YouTube VSSL is now this main sales asset that's going to hopefully convert them into either a book call or to get them to DM me to be like, hey, I want into your said program or I want to buy your product. And then after that, because again, when you push videos on people through email, they might not watch it. They might see it and just be like, I'll watch it later. Then they'll probably forget about it. Email number five is just to create some urgency to make them watch that video now. Right? Talk about pain points. Talk about some scarcity. Um just reaffirm, hey, this is really important that you solve this problem right now. The best way to solve that problem is to watch this video. You know, here's here's where my mind goes because I think about the person that's watching at home and they're listening to this and it makes sense conceptually and then the next thought in their mind is like I'm not a copywriter. like I I don't know how to like write emails and like persuasive like that is that is literally like a multi-billion dollar industry being able to write persuasive copy. And so for you as someone that's done it, if someone wanted to go from they've never really written persuasive copy in their life to like they are if they focus on these one or two principles, they'll probably be better than like 80 to 90% of people that are doing it. Yeah. Where would you tell that beginner where to focus of like step one email copyrightiting? Okay, so honestly you could use AI to write it. That's the thing about it is like and I literally have a prompt about this too. How to turn like even a script into an email. It's not too hard. Again, you just got to give it information about you. Give it information about your tone of voice. And to do that, I'm not This is what you could do. literally go into a Google doc, turn on voice typing, and just talk about what you're passionate about for 3 to 5 minutes. You'll have a full tone of voice doc right there. And then finally, what I would even recommend, find some emails from people you really like to read. Put those emails into a document, upload that into clott, and say, "Hey, write my emails in like a similar style because they're probably using really good copyrighting frameworks by themselves or copyrighting principles." And now you have all that. And then basically you just tell now claude or chat what you want the email to be about and you just give it all this information and that is probably the easiest way to create a really good email that has all these like copyrightiting principles in place because for for emails too you don't want it to be too long. You don't want long paragraphs. You want a lot of short sentences, a lot of white space because it's easier to read. There is a lot that comes with emails. But again, if you're totally new to it, just use AI to help you. Yeah. Because it will help you. Yeah. Another one, you mentioned this earlier as like the final step when you're whenever you use AI as almost like the final check is actually reading out loud what it tells you and anything. So like reading out loud the emails that it gives you the email copy. Anything that to you doesn't sound right or you just wouldn't say it like that, refining and editing that part. And that's how you can kind of go from it being like purely a AI generated to now you've put your kind of human spin on it. Yeah. Um that's good stuff. Okay, cool. Let's go to the let's go to the YouTube DSL. So essentially, okay, so if you did this right, hopefully email number four, email number five will now direct them to this video where the goal is now to convert them into customers. So you've probably heard about VSSLs before, video sales letters. Like a lot of people just host them on like onepage sales page where essentially it's like headline, video, some social proof, and just some text at the bottom. I actually recommend just to upload your VSSL on YouTube because then you get that organic audience too. You don't have to drive all this traffic to it. Uh just put on YouTube and typically most people do not think whenever they're watching a video on YouTube, it's going to be a sales video because essentially the YouTube video, the YouTube VSSL is like a free training disguised or no, it's a sales video disguised as like a free training almost. And then for this video, here's kind of the framework that I go through. Number one is the hook. You just start off with the hook in the video just so you actually capture the people. Literally talk about who this video is for and not for. So for the exact ideal clients, if you hopefully you've gotten them from your content, they've gone through your emails, they'll watch your video because you're literally pointing them out and being like, "Hey, this video is for you." And then I typically go into my story or transformation to build that trust and connection. Go into how I was maybe struggling. here's how I got out of it and I'm going to show you the solution and go more depth into it into this video. And then I typically go through like the three con beliefs I had to destroy to get to the position I am. Basically, it's almost like objection handling where essentially a lot of people have beliefs in their brain about why they can't do things. So, by talking about how I destroyed these beliefs and I was able to get success, hopefully it'll shift the mindset of the viewer to also be like, "Hey, this isn't actually a real belief. Like, if he did it, I can do it, too. And then essentially if you had it, go into client results or share some client results um that you have and then go into what I call your three-phase road map where this is like the real value of the video where you walk through the three phases you went through to get results. literally exactly what we're doing in this video, the three phases. And then you go into more client results, um, if you have it, and then you can also invite them to your actual offer at the end to be like, "Hey, if you want to if you want help with this three-phase framework, if you want to get results that I was able to get for myself and my clients and have the same transformation as me, um, book a call with me below or let's say DM me a keyword and we'll have a chat, something like that." to to people that that go cuz I and I even remember there was a a period on the internet and on Twitter or X or whatever where everyone was talking about the VSSL the the video sales letter and I'm sure for the majority of people like they don't actually it doesn't drive the impact that they want. Yeah. And so even if you just take those eight things cuz you laid out the framework and the structure, if you almost had to take a person like we brought that person into the room now of like they tried to do a VSSL and maybe they even tried to use a similar structure to this but it just no impact like no leading to sales for them. What do you typically see are the things that they're getting wrong? Like the the parts of the process or the framework that they're not quite hitting, which is why it didn't convert into sales. It's either number one, the wrong traffic is watching the video because if the wrong traffic watches the video, they're basically done with. And then number two, it's also you probably didn't because essentially what this three-phase framework is supposed to be your own unique mechanism to get results. You probably didn't outline in a very clear enough way where someone felt like, oh, this guy can help me get results. He showed the exact path to follow. And those are probably the two biggest things. Like, yeah, those are probably the two biggest things. or again the messaging and the content doesn't resonate with your exact ideal client to talk about frustrations and pain points that maybe they don't have. And that's typically the biggest thing with any VSSL. It just comes with messaging. It comes with showcasing your unique mechanism, why it's different from everyone else and why your solution is better than everyone else. That's going between like the old way versus new way stuff. And then again, just getting the right people to also watch the video is probably the most important part at the end of the day. You know what? I'm I'm curious like the the impact of this that you've seen like even the process in its entirety that step one of going from the lead magnet to the email sequence to like the step three of the YouTube VSSL. What impact examples have you seen of like this causes a shift versus what I assume most people do, which is like they just post if they have followers, they just post on their Instagram like, yeah, go buy this thing. They always post on stories, hey, I'm looking for three people to help with X or like whatever. So, with this, what I found is again, we're in a trust recession. Like people don't trust people like they used to anymore. like you can possibly like 2 years ago post a simple story and get a ton of people to buy. It's just not the case anymore. So with this whole funnel here or again the an ecosystem I call it because you're combining all of these um platforms together. By doing it, it really helps speed up trust with someone five to 10 times faster. Because if I could get someone to watch a 20 minute video going over my story and my frameworks, that builds up so much more trust than them watching my reels for an entire month, right? So, what I found with it is that number one, it's been easier to close people. Like, my sales cycles are a lot shorter now. From getting someone to first find me to now become a buyer, it's probably reduced my sales cycle in half. Number two, I've been able to almost like completely eliminate sales calls because the problem the thing with sales calls is like the only reason people do sales calls is because typically their marketing is not good enough. It's right. You need to convince someone to buy to build more trust. Exactly. You literally need to hop on a call with them and convince them rather than with this method you're the marketing which is the videos and the emails are doing the convincing for you. That way when eventually they're ready, they just hit you up. Maybe you send them a little doc about all the details about the offer and then they say, "I'm in." Like I literally had a guy before who I pitched like my one-on-one like mentorship with, which is like, let's say it's around like 5K. I literally had a guy say like, "Yo, that's a steal." Which like the best feeling as like a business owner as you can get when you pitch someone. And that like happened like a year ago because I started putting in this system. From the from the people that you've worked with, I I just want to make it real for people. And and I my big thing is always like the focus. So like if someone and let's say in this example we use Instagram. Let's say that someone dialed in their Instagram from what you shared in phase one and then they came up with like a simple system like this from phase two. How far have you seen people get just purely like before we even go into phase three in the product ladder? How far have you seen people go just dialing in those two phases and getting that right? How like what examples of like how far have you seen people go? I've seen people just from those two typically they grow a bigger following, a more engaged audience and they're able to sign a good amount of clients a month. So I've seen people literally go from like less than 3,000 followers to scaling up to like 10 to 15k a month from it and even farther too like 20 30k a month. Typically, there is a peak at like 40 to 50K where it is hard just through organic, especially if you're not like a leader leader in the space. And then typically, you've got to maybe like run ads or do some paid marketing. But with this system, I've definitely seen people go from like zero to like 20K a month. Yeah. Which for new creators, like that's kind of like even 10K for most people, right? That's kind of like the major goal. And then after that, it really is like again, I guess we'll go into phase three, but creating leverage, focusing on the activities that are actually bringing in more revenue and kind of automating or systemizing like everything else. Yeah. You know, I'm going to I'm going to ask you a selfish question. And I actually think it it like goes really it flows really naturally into phase three which is I know for what you do which is primarily uh and you correct me if I'm wrong but like services coaching like this this is your approach. What if someone's listening at home and their business they have some sort of product? So like in my in my case right and this is why I say it's a selfish question. Yeah. If it's like I want to sell more of the this t-shirt, would you like how much does this because I can see the approach that you've described of like how you take someone from not knowing anything about you to having like a lot of trust that feels like a similar process of what I would need to sell a physical product? Yeah. H how does it change if anything would you say? going from like a service or a coaching based business to I actually want to sell something t like a physical thing that people would buy. Honestly, I think for products it really depends on the product, but it's almost the same exact system. Probably you wouldn't need the YouTube VSSL. You probably just push people to a website, right? Shopify or something. But I in my opinion, the content is still the same. You create engagement content so there's awareness of your product. Typically, you probably want to make it entertaining. That's typically what I've seen do the best for like physical products. Then you want to create more authority product to showcase that this product actually solves a problem. And then for personality, like showcasing like found like a lot of people are showing like creator founders like a big thing nowadays. We're showing the founder behind the brand to build more trust and connection. So you could still follow the exact same content funnel and then still do the same things sell the product, give things out for free to get people on your email list. So then you can run promos or sell to them. But it's a very simple I think it's a very similar funnel in my opinion. Just literally the only thing that probably needs to be switched is that last step to convert them which instead of pushing people to a VSSL just probably push them to your website. Yeah. You know, and I like this sort of conversation because um a couple months ago we did an episode with Seth Goden who I I call him like the the godfather of marketing and we went like deep on like the principles and you're like even smiling like we kind of geek out on this stuff like it's like the principles of marketing. Uh, and that is kind of what this is is like the the principles of how to take someone from never seeing what you've done to trusting you and building a connection and then ultimately that leading to the buy. Um, it's it's it's similar in that sense. You know what? Let's go to um let's go to phase three. All right. The product ladder. How to scale without doing more work. And and you know what? I wanted to read this out to you uh cuz I heard you say this. He said, "Most people nowadays think that to make more money, they need to create more content, launch more products, take more sales calls. I actually go a different route." You then went on to say, "I build a product ladder, which means having one core product and just selling it at different levels of access and price." You know, here here's where I want to begin. Rewind for me for a second. What is the inspiration? Like what is the moment that you're in when you even find the product ladder? And it sounds like it almost had like it was like a mindset switch for you. Take me there. Like take me to that moment of discovering the product ladder. Okay. So I would see about a year and a half ago or maybe two years ago, I started selling this course. Like I was creating content for a while and I was like, "Okay, I want to sell a course." Because, you know, courses were huge back then. So, I sold this $200 course called the AI content automation system. And basically to sell this course, right, I would need to do all of this promo for it, like create all these emails, all these IG stories, all this content. Like, it was a lot to just do the promo. I would launch it, right? Promote it, launch it, whatever. I'd make honestly a pretty good amount of sales for it. But then to make more money the next month, I'd have to do it again and again and again. And each customer to me was only worth that $200. So I was like, "Okay, there's got to be a better way to do this." Cuz honestly, I just hate writing those promo emails. I just didn't enjoy it. And so I was trying to find another way because I was I was conflicted. I was like, "Okay, well, do I not want to sell a course anymore? Do I want to just go and sell a service or do coaching?" I wasn't sure until I heard about this uh method called some people call it like the offer ladder and offer suite. I have my own name for it, the proc ladder where essentially you just create one product, one product that can really help people solve their problems and then you just sell different levels of access to you because people will pay for different levels of access. So if we take a look at example here, I break it down to like four levels. The first one, level one, is basically a course, right? Where you can charge for $50 to $200. And this is basically a done by you product, which basically means once you sell the course, uh the person who buys the course, they have to do it on their own, right? There's no access to you. They basically go through the course and they will put whatever they teach into um they will just into fruition or they'll actually do whatever you teach and then get some sort of results. But for a lot of people, they need more help because they're going to come across issues where basically they're like, "Okay, I don't know how to solve this problem. I need this guy's help." And that's when you could sell a level two product, which is typically a group community where you could charge either like a $100 a month or you can sell access for a year between like a,000 to $3,000. Now, this is what we call like a done with you product because now they still get access to the course and everything, but now they get some levels of access to you to ask you questions, whether that be like a chat channel or like weekly calls. And then from there, you can actually add another product which is just more intimate one-on-one with you where now they have even more access to you, right? They might have weekly calls with you. They might have a private chat with you. And for that, you can sell like3 to $10,000. Like I know some people selling $10,000 just for a one-on-one. And then finally, let's say they've now gone through these levels. They are like, you know, this is great. Your coaching is great, but I just don't have enough time. I want you this just done for me. That's when you can sell like a done for you service where now you charge much higher prices. But essentially, the products that you're sell, it's you're teaching the same thing in every single level or you're doing the same thing in every single level. they just get different levels of access to you which is just going to help them out a little bit more. Yeah. You know, you know, it's interesting even as you explain it, you start to realize that all big companies do this. Yeah. And it's interesting cuz I I recently bought like um a new MacBook, right? So, like the core offering is the laptop itself, but then they have, oh, if you want this amount of memory, it's an extra $200. If you want like the the person at the Apple Genius Bar to like set up the computer or like put all your stuff in the cloud for you, there's like another price and they'll like create these different tiers of basically access essentially uh and it's like you've taken one product like the the innovation was the MacBook like was the laptop and then you have all these layers on top of it which make you more money. Yeah. It's interesting. It's it's pretty like you'll see it like literally go through any of the big business guys in the space. They're all doing some form of this ladder where essentially they get you in on an entry offer which is typically a low low ticket like lowrisk offer that only costs a little amount of money and then how they make most of the money is just on the back end which it's selling you the other thing selling you more access to a community to oneonone coaching just to see faster results. Like everyone's doing this nowadays. And like there's even like a hack where essentially you sell a low tier course that costs like let's say $20 to $100. You run ads to that course and then essentially you don't even try to make a profit on the course itself. All the money now is made up in the back end which is selling this other stuff like a community or one-on-one. So basically you're getting like free calls from that course because it balances out with the ad spend. But now you're getting like free calls and everything. And that's what a lot of people that's what a lot of like BTOC guys now do nowadays. Even B2B guys, it's almost it sounds like uh the level one of the product ladder is almost like the the new lead magnet in a way. It's like you kind of get someone in and you use that to then build into the other things. Okay. Here's the here here's one of the final ones where I want to go is someone and and we spoke about that focus on phase one and phase two of the process and I can imagine someone then getting to the point and and this is what happens is once you start to get successful at something and it starts getting traction and you're getting results it becomes really alluring and tempting to take all these other opportunities and so I can even see and hear it from people of like they'll double down on this almost too early. You know what? You let me know. Is that even a thing? Like is it is it do you see people almost going from a core offering to trying to do a product ladder too early? Number one. And then is there a point in time like how can someone who's watching this know when they're ready to actually start offering different tiers and access points past just getting their core offer right. I would say for most people, yeah, a big thing is like a lot of people want to sell a bunch of different products at the same time. Yeah. And because of that, typically they don't sell really well because again, the messaging is all over the place. Because the messaging of a community versus like a one-on-one mentorship, entirely different. So, it can't be the same messaging. So, a problem a lot of people have is trying to sell too many products. They have too many ideas and they want to sell too many products at the same time. Typically, focus on one product. Really dial in. see that there is an audience that wants to buy this product. And typically the best way to do that is either again with a low ticket course because if you see a lot of people are willing to pay $20 to $50 for a course, there's probably a decent amount that's willing to pay for more help or more access. But if no one buys the course, nobody's going to buy the community or oneonone, so there's no point about it. So that's that's an issue I see some people having. Um, but typically what I tell people to is that to create a product ladder, it's typically pretty easy. The hardest part about this entire ladder here is typically the course here. Actually creating a good course. To create the community, all you need is give people access to the course and the community. Have a chat channel that people can talk and just have a time for weekly calls. Typically, that's enough for someone to spend this amount of money on a community. And then one-on-one is just figuring out how do you work with people one-on-one to get them results. So, are you going to do weekly calls with them? Where are you going to talk to them? Typically level three and level two are pretty easy to kind of just get going right away. The hard part honestly getting the course done right, making sure the course is about a thing people actually want and then once you kind of have that proof of concept, then it's starting to build out the ladder. But yeah, typically start with one, don't move to three or two first. Um, make sure people are actually interested and then you can start to build up level by level. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Okay, you know what? Here's where I want to end. And uh I referenced this earlier, your your pin post. Oh, yeah. And I say, you say, "I went from zero followers I went from zero followers to over 150,000. And I went from $2,000 a month to $30,000 a month in 12 months." And and then here's what got my attention. You said, "I had no previous experience. I was extremely camera shy and I had massive imposttor syndrome." And so let's do this for a for a second. If we were almost to bring that version of Zeta into this room and with everything that you've like achieved so far and even like you know we've spent the majority of this day together and like we're in your apartment like all of the things that are like in picture and are now your reality with what you've achieved. Let's say that you were sitting opposite that Zeta who has the massive imposttor syndrome, camera shy, no previous experience really in sales or building like a successful profitable personal brand. if you had to just give him like one thing to focus on of just like take this message like take it forward that you think is just going to give him the most value and just get him started with doing this. I'm curious what what would you say? Great question. I would say well the number one thing to focus on is first of all don't expect results too quickly. I think that's a problem a lot of people have is like they expect to get a lot of views within like 30 days. It's like what I've seen is that usually takes like three months and typically the creators that win are just the creators that don't quit. So number one it's like focus on creating content. That's number one. most part it's just create better make every piece of content 1% better and have that compounding effect and then if I can do that and then just stay consistent even when yo none of these videos are hitting none of them are getting views instead of looking down upon those videos take it as a lesson and be like okay I tried this hook or I tried this format didn't work let me take that lesson and try something else if I can have that mindset and just have the consistency I know noatter what I'm going to make it. So that's what I'd probably tell myself like yo and even though speaking on camera is going to be awkward in the beginning like just know these are the opportunities and here's what can happen and just lay that out to really give that motivation too to like and just discipline to really just not give up on this. Yeah. Because yeah content creation in my opinion is it's the one thing that anyone can honestly do like it doesn't take capital. It does it like you anyone can create content and anyone can get themselves out of the position they're in with it. You know what it's um I think Seth Goden calls it the dip which is like right before the thing really starts working usually it's like really not working. Yeah. And I think like for you, even when you mention being camera shy or putting out a ton of videos and they're not working in those darkest like moments of you creating, what was keeping you going? Like what helped you survive the dip? Oh my god. I honestly I think it was not even worrying about the videos, just focus on the next one. That was just it. It was like, you know what? I post these videos, they're done. Let's focus on the next one because the next one could hit. And I think that's the beauty of kind of Tik Tok with Instagram right now is like the next video could be the video. Like if you go from like let's say you're getting like 200, 500 views, but then your next video gets like a million views or like even like a 100,000 views, that can almost two to threex your business right there. So it's just think about the next video, the next video, the next video. Don't worry about any videos that flop. Just focus on the next one. And eventually the next video will be the video that exponentially grows your business. Eventually that will happen. I guarantee to anyone as long as they stay consistent with it. Okay. So if you enjoyed this episode, you're going to absolutely love what we did with this one right here. 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