[Music] welcome to the united palace of spiritual arts and specifically welcome to the open heart conversation my name is Reverend Arda it--is and i will be flying solo today because my partner in crime Reverend Jose is not here he is on the beaches of Puerto Rico as we speak so I would imagine he's probably not thinking about us but about him so thank you thank you for being here and for our friends online thank you for joining us we have a really magnificent and special afternoon planned for you our guest for today is Ian e-file Reverend DeShannon Barnes Bowens and before I get into her formal introduction she is going to gift us with a very special water blessing called a libation good afternoon everyone a libation is a water blessing that we do in many traditions and it's no different of the arecia traditions where we are paying homage how much to ancestors homage to earth and this is something that is one of the most sacred prayers for me and my practice and many arisia practitioners all over the world so we're going to begin this way and I'm going to start with singing a song and I'll say the libation in Yoruba and after I say this in yerba I will give you the English translation so that you know what I just said Oh Oh go Oh God oh go Oh Oh God Oh Oh Oh God Oh Who me love me love me love me like oh me too - me too - me too - not too too late - - - - bye bangla tutorial - me too - I - Tulio yay cause he cuoco serie dudu casa andina co co capacity boa recoupable whoa our job our new award a voltage e y el amor de agua Juba issue Oh goo no Josie or Sonia no Joanie about yoga or battle ah da doo doo bah boom in La La Mancha a Ganju or Rangoon or emphatically Shango Roger ba Dada Oh Cole or Oh Cory Coco our Juba ocean Madre Baba looey EBG our Juba oil or laocoön our Juba yeh or shoes our Juba yummy I J on la yeah why Jovi all do Raja Babu Boresha Raja Babu room Raju by a goon goon Kiki a Google about you bah bah bah ah I told him about you en la orden fresh water fresh water fresh water to freshen the path to freshen the way to freshen a way to freshen issue may death be no more may evil be no more may negativity and evil intention cease to be we give praise to the highest of the high the creator Supreme Being who comes manifested is all of the forces of nature whom we called the arisia we salute the owner of this day in all the reaches from issue to ocean we salute the primordial mothers the feminine forces of nature we salute our sacred fathers and mothers in heaven the mediums of the ancestors as well as our guiding ancestral spirits and with this last drop I honor the spirit of my father Ernest Kolb Owens who recently joined the realm of the ancestors and when we close a prayer we say ashay which means and so is and now I'm going to invite all of you to stand and join in a song as we have called the ancestors we've acknowledged them and now we want to sing a song where we give praise it's called a goon goon wah which basically means please come ancestors ancestors come today and I'm going to ask all of you to clap because I'm holding this temporarily you're just gonna have to see me do like that but I'll started and then I'm gonna ask you to start clapping and then Reverend Tracy on the drum is going to join in with us so it goes a little like this a gong go yah yah yah yah yah yah yah yah yah yah yeah no I did a google yah yah yah yah yah yah baby Jana wanted me y'all know I'm a Google yah now I need me y'all not wanna be my baby goo goo Jana wanna be me thank you you may be seated that was just beautiful really really lovely you know DeShannon was a Dean at the seminary that I graduated from and I was actually I wasn't gonna say this until the end of the segment but I feel called to share it now when I first went into seminary I wasn't I didn't understand the validity of indigenous religions I thought there was only the Abrahamic faiths and since childhood I was always called to something different since childhood I was more consumed with the earth and all its creatures and you know traditional Abrahamic religion just did not speak to me and I thought I thought it was wrong it wasn't until I went to seminary that DeShannon taught our class on African spirituality that it inspired me to do the research of my own ancestor and discover that my ancestors are indigenous people so it all made sense and it made me realize that there is more than just the Abrahamic faiths and I have you to thank for that so thank you because you should you literally changed the trajectory of my spirituality so I am eternally grateful with that said let me tell you about this magnificent woman who is sitting across from me Reverend Ian Eva Ian Eva Reverend de Shannon Barnes Bowens commonly called Ella WA is the founder of Alera counseling and education services and works as a psychotherapist professional development trainer and spiritual counselor through Alera she offers workshops and programs focusing on sexuality and spirituality sexual abuse vicarious trauma and wellness the Shannon received a bachelor's degree in psychology from the University of Missouri st. Louis and a master's degree in counseling from Pace University she is an initiated priestess in the Orisha Aoife spiritual tradition and a member of a temple based in the US and olara Nigeria DeShannon is also is also an ordained interfaith inter spiritual minister through one spirit interfaith seminary where she currently teaches and serves as assistant director she is the author of hush hush an african-american family breaks their silence on sexuality and sexual abuse the second addition of her book inspired a full-length play of the same title as well as an arts education program called hush hush the healing project DeShannon is the first recipient of the bill T Jones award from the American Association of sexuality educators counselors and therapists an emeritus scholar for state of formation and was recently published in the Journal of inter-religious studies some presentations of her work have taken place at the American Academy of religion Harvard University the Children's Aid Society Washington University New York Theological Seminary University of Connecticut and the values caucus of the United Nations for more information about de Shannon and her work visit WWE il e ra Alera dot-com please join me in welcoming any fun Reverend is Shannon Barnes my god that was a mouthful and I just and I only knew her as D Shannon in seminary I thought she was you know just like one of the really really cool Dean's that everybody loved for so many of us through your beau Reba Aoife tradition is something that's entirely foreign so I've taken the liberty of gathering some information to share some of its history and background with you Aoife religion is an indigenous earth-centered African spiritual tradition native to the Yoruba people of Nigeria West Africa according to oral literature the practice of e fo originated as far back as 8,000 years ago like almost every other world religion the arisia religions include teachings on the importance of positive traits and behavior but with an even stronger focus on good character humility and the importance of family and community what is different from the Abrahamic traditions that many people are more familiar with is the way in which these principles are presented in the Orisha religions I'm going to read a passage from a paper written by doctor for Leo Woods she's the founder of the African diasporic religious studies Association in 2008 she wrote African indigenous spirituality a closer look which was originally published in the paper medium for people of African descent at the City College of New York it is said that the revealed religions Judaism Christianity and Islam so-called because of their reliance on texts revealed by God to revered prophets come from up and look down whereas indigenous traditions of all kinds come from down and look up what this means is that while the revealed texts the Torah the Bible and the Quran tell practitioners of those faiths about who and what God is based on information revealed to them from above practitioners of indigenous traditions have traditionally ascertained who and what God is and drawn conclusions about the nature of God from their experiences on earth and sent them upwards towards God of course there is overlap between these categories as those who practice the revealed religions may also experience God and make inferences but their main source of information is the text and it is the information given in these texts that tell practitioners of these faiths who God is what to call him and how they should relate to him the Pew Research Center in 2012 and I found this fascinating this was in 2012 stated that 4 million people worldwide are follower followers of folk / indigenous religions according to anthropologist Sandra Barnes in her book Africa's ogoun old world and new African systems of thought 70 million African and new world people are practicing orisha religions in some form throughout the world I find that magnificent fascinating and magnificent and this Pew Research the study was done in 2012 I would imagine today in 2018 that number has increased significantly why do you think that is well first let me say that actually the number is 400 million worldwide in terms of folk and indigenous religions and then the subset of the arisia practitioners that you were just talking about just like you said is 70 million some people say that the number is a hundred million so it just depends on who you look at in terms of numbers because it's kind of hard to count people who have not been counted who have been invisible or on the margins of society as it relates to religious practice and the reason to answer your question that I think that this number is increasing not just in a racial religions or african spiritual indigenous traditions but indigenous traditions across the world it's because of a call to be more embodied a call to be more grounded a call to be more connected and something about our ancestors is speaking to us because a lot of us tend to sleepwalk and it's time for us to wake up what I found most fascinating in that piece was that the revealed religions meaning the Abrahamic faiths go from up to down and the indigenous religions go down to up and I think really that's that's the meaning of embodiment you know and I love the idea of having a personal relationship with God as opposed to somebody telling me what my relationship with God should be in our tradition in there its various traditions so I want to say a few of them just to give honor to the various ways and cultures in which people practice so my tradition is Aoife is with our to explain earlier and it originates from the culture of the Yoruba culture of Southwest Nigeria and Benin but then there's also during the transatlantic slave trade that people landed in Cuba they landed in Brazil they landed all over this hemisphere to practice these traditions and connect with Alicia in different ways in the United States particularly I believe that probably the most practitioners are following the lucuma tradition from Cuba that's very strong and prominent here in I actually give so much honor to Luca me practitioners Santeria because here those traditions were kept alive in this part of the country they had to hide in order of to keep their practices going and merge them with some of the Catholic saints and it because of the culture it became its own embodied way of being with the spirits that we call the orishas and our traditions the deities per se they're known as forces of nature and the reason that a Risha connection is so important is because it allows us a way to access or our talents and our gifts and so since we look at these deities as extensions of the divine and not the divine itself we're able to find meaning in our lives by connecting with those specific energies so to give you an example I'm initiated first to Anna Risha that is known as ocean and ocean is a arisia an angel or a deity that is over fresh water rivers lakes some people associate oshu with beauty and love and sexuality and fertility and all of that stuff is great as well but when I had my first divination and I was told that my arecia was ocean and at first I found a little bit because I was given this sanitized vanity picture of this energy what I had learned is that ocean was actually teaching me how to love myself as I am and to love my body as it is and to be connected to it and to then spread that energy out in the world and to walk with that energy so that others may know that they have permission to do the same so you don't necessarily get to choose which Orisha you're going to be initiated to it's chosen for you through divination how does that process work hmm I love it so what happens a lot of times in our traditions when people go for a divination or at first I feel like I should say what divination is just to show a hands in the audience is there anyone who does not know what divination is a show of hands okay great thank thank you for raising your hands so divination in various traditions is a process by which you can't you have a consultation with an ordained priest or priestess and there's usually a specific Oracle system that is used and it's a spiritual consultation so the person who's coming to receive a divination or a consultation may have questions that they need guidance on I in common language refer to it as spiritual counseling with ritual and so what happens is that there is a process that is specific to the specific spiritual tradition and there are certain prayers in ritual where you're accessing energy in order to give the person before you guidance so when art is asking about this divination process of discovering who once or Isha is or one's angel or guidance a lot of people who are familiar with arisia religions may come in with an idea that I think that might be a Shango person Shango is an Orisha in our tradition of thunder and lightning can be a warrior tight but also a kingly type person for those of you who are familiar with astrology I refer to Shango as leo people so whatever your vision is of a Leo that might be a Shango type person others may disagree with me who are practitioners but that's just the Shannons connection and so this part you may be a person who is a Leo and who made the fiery and the life of the party and liked to shine at a dynamic speaker and leader however you could have a divination with a priest or priest or priestess and it may come up that your Risha is Yemaya you are to you this is who is speaking up for you and Yemaya is an Orisha an energy a deity that is depending on what part of the country you're from is a very mothering energy an energy that gives birth she is celebrated over the ocean to be the arisia of the ocean in some cultures in nigeria himalayas over a specific river but the qualities are the same Yemaya helps people to birth them to birth themselves to birth themselves and if someone who is a Shango energy which is very fiery and happy has a consultation and it shows up that their Arisa is Yemaya with that probably means is there is something where they need to cool down calm down a little bit and they need that water element in order to tap the essence of their gifts so that they can manifest what they came to do this lifetime that's fascinating how many are riches are there well okay so there are many many many reaches and I admit that I don't know them all art and the reason why is is they're considered four hundred plus one on the right that are known as the I just think the positive Alicia wait four hundred I thought there were like seven I knew there were four you know four hundred oh my god well we're not gonna go through all those because I don't know all four hundred but you have four hundred plus one on the right two hundred plus one on the Left that are more so known as the negative forces so that plus one is supposed to be a category for a number of other entities that can come into manifestation here on earth but when you say that you thought there were seven that's because pretty much here in the West there are seven particular orishas that are pretty common and in buchumi in particular they have a ceremony but where you can go through before you even initiate it where you can receive sacred necklaces that we call in decades for orishas for you know a number of the people may call the primary or reaches but there's a lot more than seven there's a whole point and they are men male and female energies is that right yes and that some day I feel that in this time where people are talking a lot about gender that that can actually be debated where people talk about the orishas but just to make it simple and to stick to some of the mythology stories that is exist in Yoruba cosmology we do usually refer to some of the reaches as he male she female feminine masculine but in essence I think that there are a growing number of practitioners including myself who look at orishas is just energy just you know just energy to connect with and depend on what type of energy that we're looking to make a connection with we may refer to that or Risha is masculine or feminine in that moment but at the end of the day a force of nature is just a force of nature absolutely would you share with us the creation story oh yes so there's many creation stories but I believe I know the one that you're referring to so I'm gonna share the one that has to deal with the Orisha that I've initiated too which is again as ocean well one of the reasons I'm initiated - so the story goes that there is a load omadi in all of dumar a as one of the names of God and our tradition Olo de marte had given or Risha a charge to say hey it's time to create the earth let's do something let's get it together and this is of course the Shannons ad libs just so you all know so come on let's do something let's make something happen let's create this planet called Earth and all of the arecia zhh were male but there was one addition and that was the arisia ocean so he sent all of the mail or ishes and ocean and he gave them all their charge and told them what they were to do and that ocean must be included so my assumption is maybe when this meeting happened oh she wasn't there but Ola do Marty said make sure Osho gets the message because she has to go so the mail lorisha got together and decided we don't need ocean she's just a woman we're pretty powerful we got this so the arisia set out to form the earth they set out to form the earth and create the earth and everything that they did every time they formed it it fell apart it collapsed it wouldn't come about the way that it was supposed to so after several attempts who knows exactly how many attempts according to this story they went back to old Audemar day and they said it's not working we did what you told us to do so all the domani says well where was social and they said well you know kind of shuffling feet you know sometimes I'll people look down there parent asks them to do something and you want to look down and not admit what you did so they admitted that they left them soon out because basically they saw her as insignificant and so although Damari instructed them that they had to go and beg oh shoot for her forgiveness that they had to make offerings and beseech her to come and they had to call upon her and so that's what they did because Oshun being the Orisha of rivers lakes streams pines some people say Sweetwater nothing in nature can grow without that energy so after their begging in the seaching and their offerings ocean came down the water was there things started to grow and flourish and the earth was the creative so there's a moral to the story and the moral is very simple that if you leave a woman out everything falls apart you want something done right the first time right as the old saying goes what what are the basic tenets of the religion would you call it is it do you consider it a religion would you call it a spiritual tradition because I know my own indigenous ancestry we were tengas and they refer to it as a religion the religion of Junius Khan and it's an it's only an oral history but they do refer to it as a religion it depends on who you talk to personally I will say religion just so that people can realize that there are some systems in place but for me personally I refer to it as a spiritual path in a way of life because the word ePHI itself means a nature of things and so for me it really is more a way of life but to say that it's a religion I feel it's fine to there are some people that would debate that in terms of basic tenants there are a few and these I would have to say a probably pretty much standard for any African indigenous tradition you know throughout the continent and certainly I believe of all of the Orisha religions as well in the first for me which is the most grounding and the most important is that of ancestor reverence and ancestor communication because it is the ancestors who provide us with a code of conduct in order to aspire to they have a level of wisdom that we don't once they transition and leave their physical bodies what often comes up not just that one spirit interfaith seminary but other places where I've taught is that people have different feelings about their ancestors based on people who have done terrible things and committed harm against others and what I would say to that is even when we have ancestors that have not acted in ways that were loving or a certain code of ethics that we still learn by observing what they did so that we know what not to do and by making that ancestral connection we have the opportunity to create to tell a new story because we stand on their shoulders regardless of what they did so if we don't like what they did in the past we can learn from the past mistakes and make a present different choice in the future so ancestor reverence and connection is very important the second one in terms of the concept of the practice would be connecting with the orishas which we've already talked about a little bit in order to be more in tune rhythm with the cycles of nature and the rhythm of nature and understand that we are just a part of it not Lord over it because if we were more embodied and in the flow with the connection of nature and these forces of energy that we called arisia we would be less likely to abuse it to abuse the water to pollute the planet to abuse animals plant life in each other so the orishas and connecting with those forces is definitely a tenant the third would be the concept of Ori Ori Ori is in my day the Shannons definition is the divine aspect of who each and every one of us is individualized in physical form so aura is consciousness it is that part of us that sees things beyond the human level and it is that spark of the Creator individualized as us that is connected to not just the Creator the divine but all of creation in the cosmos and so with Ori there is an essential teaching for me personally that I live by and that teaching is that character shapes destiny it's a concept that we call a wife IWA Pele PE le ey Pele so good character is extremely important and we strive to live good character because we know that the more that we cultivate our character the easier it is to live on purpose and to do good in the world would that be comparable to what we would traditionally call the soul hmm is or read the soul that's an excellent question you taught me well [Laughter] is always ory the song hmm maybe there's there's a belief that I heard from my first mentor I was very fortunate when I moved here my mentors are I have two sets of mentors so I have my mentors here in New York right in the Bronx who did my first initiation and then I have my mentors in Chicago the community that I'm also a part of there as well and my first mentor Baba Ola he talked I remember him in one of his lectures speaking about how when we evolve and we incarnate from lifetime to lifetime that we may have a different arisia we may show up as a different gender we may show up as a different race even or as you know different ethnicity but there are Ori is the same so that essence is the same and it made sense because we talk things in our communities people talk about past life regressions people talk about the aura of their ancestors the consciousness of the ancestors that still is present that guides us today and so when I think of Orion soul I do see I do see a connection that's something that I would have to sit with and make me go hmm [Laughter] there's something I'm very curious about were you born into this tradition or is it something that developed later in life for you it developed later in life so I was born into the Baptist tradition good old Baptists if you hear an accent for the New Yorkers in the room it's because I am from st. Louis Missouri originally and the accent did not leave it stayed and I'm proud of it I had to defend myself a lot when I came here not that I have issues with that now but I was born into the Baptist tradition and you know I mean it was a beautiful church that I was brought up in very charismatic preacher and I remember the choir and I remember being a little girl sitting on my father's lap and hearing the choir sing and tears just pouring down my face just automatically hearing the harmony of the voices I was that moved and I probably was like five sitting on my dad's lap but as I got older my butt and I started listening more to some of the messages and I realized at that particular church the theology and the tenants that were being passed on were just things I didn't agree with so as I decided it was time to go back to school go to graduate school and I decided to come here to New York there were two things that I was certain of one is that I was going to find my life partner and I did and second that I was going to find a spiritual path that was for me and at that time I thought that spiritual path was going to be something else Christian but something else more progressive where women had it you know an equal footing side-by-side with men it was progressive on issues of sexuality and gender sexual orientation and that's just what I thought it would be and it wasn't I was led to a priest to have a divination and I think you want to know how that happened I had an old friend in Brooklyn who needed to have a ritual done and all she told me was okay she calls me Shannon all right Shan I need you to meet me in the Bronx I have to have this ritual done and I'm going to I think I'm gonna be loopy afterwards so since you have a car can you meet me there and drive me back to your place and so I said okay you know and I'm looking kind of like what is she doing but she was a friend so I was sure she wasn't getting into anything crazy I took her eye she went there she went from Brooklyn I met her there and when I opened the door there was a woman who opened the door and she bowed to me and said the Shu Ella do Mari and hugged me on both sides left and right her hair was wrapped and then a man came and said how are you doing and then he kissed me on both sides and you know gave me a hug and I was like wow these people are really nice and my friend was there and she was dressed in white and then she went in the back and I just sat there on the couch and I waited for her and while I was waiting for her and they were doing whatever it was they were doing because I was not permitted to go it back the wife looked at me and she said have we met and I said no we've never met and also I didn't look as I do today because my friend also scared me and she said you need to make sure you look right SH and so she said you need to wrap your head you need to wear a long skirt because these people can read your mind was wrapping your head going to prevent them from reading your mind I have no idea but this is this is a story this is a story I was told and so I just so this is what I did I kid you not I emptied my mind before I went because I didn't want them picking up anything I didn't know what them into what I ate yesterday if I said a cuss word I didn't want anything coming out and so the move the story up a little bit she had her ritual done it actually turned out that it was something related to the concept of her Orie and she when she came out she was like floating she was in all white her head was wrapped she was very serene and peaceful and I thought huh this is interesting and she said to me a day later I think that you are going to be part of the tradition because that's what sometimes people in arisha religions they will refer to it as the religion or they will refer to it as the tradition she said I think you're going to be part of the tradition as no I'm not and she said it's just a feeling that I have so fast-forward she introduced me to her godmother that she was studying with at the time I had a divination with her a Cowrie shell divination and then she and I studied Yemaya priestess and Queens we started doing some ancestor things together and then when I wanted to know who my where my ancestors came from she said I know just the place to send you I thought I was going to see a genealogist who was going to research my family tree and where did I end up right back in the Bronx where I had taken my girlfriend to have her aura ritual and so still I wasn't getting it I'm a little slow sometimes they opened the door and I said okay where's the computer we're having maybe these you know this is New Yorkers they're very entrepreneurial there's a computer somewhere and we're gonna sit down but no that's not what was happening and what happened is is that the sacred materials were out for me to have a divination and I said oh I'm having one of these but this looks a little different from the divination that I had with the arisia priestess and Queens and I had a divination with this man baba Ola who's a Bible I and from that divination on I said this is something that I need to know more about and I had no intention of becoming a priestess I didn't want to be a priestess and I told him I did not want to be a priestess and he said it's okay because you're a born priestess I said I know you know low like I know and so he said okay so I practiced for five years I connected with ocean I connected with my masculinity liudmila just as a practitioner and I did that four or five years and then it just kept coming up I know you don't want to do it but it keeps coming up I know you don't want to do it but it keeps coming up so I said fine because I was happy life was good I was helping people as a therapist like I don't need to be a pre yes I'm fine the way I am but his life is unfolded I see why it was necessary to walk this path and it really is honor to do something what is it done for you what is it what has been an ocean priestess done for you an initiated priestess what has it done for you personally in your own life I would say the first thing was connecting me with my ancestors I recently watched a video a Haitian priestess Mambo Mambo devotee she's in Haitian voodoo and it was powerful clip on YouTube I encourage anyone to google it on YouTube Mambo devotee and I don't remember the title of it but it the sentiment was that God can look like me and there's been historically so much you know negativity trauma violence directed towards people of African descent and then in terms of what this practice made me realize is the power the potency the beauty and the brilliance of what our ancestors were connected to so the first thing that the tradition did is it put me in deep reverence in communion with my ancestors and not just my bloodline when I constructed my ancestor altar I had and I still do pictures of people who were very inspirational now I have James Baldwin on there I have Nelson Mandela I have Malcolm X dr. King our jury Lord Maya dr. Maya Angelou Fannie Lou Hamer and people you know outside you know in terms of African ancestry but connecting with my ancestors made me realize that if they can go through what they went through and endured then I can go through life and live life to its fullest the second thing personally is that it helped integrate it helped me integrate all parts of myself to be a more authentic human being because going through my life there was places where in order to be safe I had to dial it back a little bit so you know being a woman if I was in certain spaces I had to dial it back a little bit being african-american in certain spaces I had to dial it back a little bit you know couldn't be too Pro woman couldn't be too Pro black and I'm also bisexual and I'm in a same-gender loving relationship so in certain spaces I have to dial that back a little bit and after a while it gets exhausting dialing it back and just not letting the the essence of my heart the wisdom of my heart just shine through and so when one of the early divinations I remember asking my first mentor what does the tradition say about these different issues I didn't have to ask about race that was a given and by the way the in terms of this tradition because I am asked this people of all racial cultural backgrounds practice this tradition practice this tradition so there's no exclusion in terms of that but I needed to know about women I needed to know about sexual orientation and he said this tradition is about your character that's what this tradition is about it's about your character and it is a path to self-actualization and so walking that path then my eyes were open and I was able to meet people in other traditions who were also walking that path of self-actualization and they could give me guidance so when I told that talk to them about my story they could relate and so I have mentors not just an ephah I have Christian Mentors I have mentors of Native American you know indigenous and I see the relevance and the beauty of all of it coming together but I had to integrate in that path of integration and living without fear in full acceptance is the biggest gift that the tradition gave because I had to accept myself first internally versus looking for validation from other people what you said you're so interesting you said that you have Christian Mentors and what I found is that once I began with such an aversion to traditional religion but very similarly to what you just said when I discovered my own ancestry and who I truly was it gave me a different appreciation and understanding of your more traditional religions now where now I have a genuine appreciation for them you know whereas before it was just kind of like you know there's truly in all forms of you develop a whole different understanding and appreciation and the truth is I mean Africa is the this is the cradle of civilization so clearly this is where it all began do you see any correlation between the Abrahamic faiths and the indigenous traditions I see them in cultural things where my ancestors are from originally the traditions of the some of the practices in the in the religion this indigenous religion have carried over into cultural aspects of because my family migrated to Turkey it's carried over to the cultural aspect so there's certain significance about you know 40 days or throwing water after someone if they're leaving on a trip you know this all stems to the indigenous religion but now it's become a cultural thing do you find that do you find that similarity let's say in your from your tradition into your the Baptist faith that you were raised in I actually did it you know when I made the biggest connection was ironically when we had a speaker come to the first year students at one spirits interfaith seminary for Protestant Protestantism her name was dr. Carrie Jackson no and I love dr. Carrie Jackson hi Carrie if you're watching she's awesome but no this is actually Reverend dr. Karen Carla so hi Karen if you're watching we talked about Jesus and the intial this is my connection well the way that people connect with Jesus and they talked about talked about Jesus because Jesus it was an actual living being to me is ancestor veneration Jesus is an ancestor Jesus Jesus is an ancestor Jesus was flesh Jesus walked the earth Jesus is an ancestor and so to me it's no different if someone wears a cross is a symbol we have a legacy that we wear and I'm pulling one of them out so you can see where we have certain beads that are blessed to different or consecrate it to different orishas and the way that people connect with Jesus and they do certain things to commemorate the death and the resurrection to me that's just ancestor worship so that's where I draw the connection and there are people who are ordained ministers and Baptists the ordained Christian ministers who also practice a variety of African indigenous spiritual practices that was the next question look at that I was going to ask you do you find I was going to say there you know there are a lot of people who are very devout in their Christian roots or Muslim roots or whatever the case may be and almost feel like oh well I can't you know I can't get in that because it's almost a betrayal of what you were raised with or what you were taught even what would you say to those people who have that call and that desire to get to know their roots but are kind of fearful and then and see it almost as a betrayal of let's say that Jesus that they were raised with and genuinely loved you know love and and don't want to let go of do they have to let go of it do they have to let go of him I would say no it's because for me it's not about letting go of Jesus maybe what is happening is that person who is connected to Jesus has been Jesus has been put in a box and maybe Jesus has been talked to that individual in a way that's too small because I know Christians personally I've done divinations for them myself I have had ordained ministers Christian ministers sitting across from me for divination and there's no reason that someone can't get a divination and recite a psalm from the Bible you don't have to throw away or get rid of something to be something else unless it in some way negates inhibits or suppresses the essence of who you are so if that path of loving and worshiping and connecting with Jesus is life enhancing and nourishing I say keep it and keep it and continue also to connect with the Orisha as well I don't think Jesus would have a problem with it that's just me personally I don't think Jesus would have any problem with it I don't believe that the arisia us have any problem with Jesus that's just me I think they're all up there like hey what's up what's what is this spiritual practice what is a what is a typical day in the life of a priestess what is the spiritual practice like how is it incorporated into your daily life so this is a fascinating question because it's different for everybody everybody has to tailor their practice to make it unique to them and also you're dealing with the diversity of culture so while I am practicing a tradition from Nigeria my mentors or at who took me through the initiation process or african-americans who were initiated in Nigeria my first mentors here were and then my mentor in Chicago had some of her initiations at Nigeria but then you bring it back here to the States and you're in the culture of the United States of America and so the culture to me culture shapes practice even when these different traditions come from different countries and cultures so I can only I'm saying all that to say that I can only even I can't even speak for the african-american culture as the priestess I can only tell you what I do so here's a day in terms of the Shannons life I have an ancestor altar so every day that I get up I connect with my ancestors and I say a prayer there's an act that we do called ballet ba la ballet and it means to prostrate or something as simple as touching the ground so let's say my ancestor altar is right here in the act of reverence I touch the ground I come back up I say my prayer and I go about my day some people in terms of divinations they may do a divination for the day I don't do a divination for the day I do a divination for the week and I have also have a monthly ancestral ritual that I do every month that is specific divination with the ancestors and then I also have a weekly specific prayer practice with a womb Allah that I do in a certain ritual with that and so my practice is very organic and that the ancestors is the point of contact I do something from my Ori and something from my Ori is not probably as traditional was maybe some other practitioners in Nigeria or other places might connect with their Ori and remember earlier I said aureus essence your consciousness that divides spark so for me my or we may guide me to say okay your or we practice today is that you need to walk outside you need to go to the Bronx River Parkway and you need to be in meditation and do a walking meditation that maybe my aura practice for that day so I wait I have my things of course ancestor every day my weekly divination is my weekly specific prayer ritual because I pray every day but this is enhanced I have my monthly ancestor ritual but day to day I have to be present for the moment to listen in meditation and listen to what my spirit tells me that I need for that day and given the hectic life of New Yorkers you know sometimes I might just have to I mean I don't do this but it might just be something simple like okay I gotta go I mean I don't do that but I'm just trying to give you all an example that it depends on what's going on but I know that spirits are always walking with me even the times that I don't pay attention and they have to get my attention to slow me down I'm never alone I'm never by myself so one of the things here that we have a tendency to do you know at the open heart conversation is and when Reverend Jose is here with me we get so we get so entranced with our guests that we forget that there's an audience full of people that probably want to ask questions so I'm trying to be mindful of that today in this and I would like to open up this conversation for questions for anybody in the audience please if you have any questions for Ian Aoife Reverend de Shannon please raise your hand and where she'll be I'm sure happy to answer them for you hmm anyone have any questions I see someone it's very hard the lights are directly on us so it's a little bit hard to see so if you might have to wave a little harder do we have we're gonna get you a microphone we'll get you a microphone you know what we can give you this one here you be we'll be right over hi I'm just curious come closer we can't see you at all I'm a little closer can you see me now um I just wanted to I was just curious the person that gives you the divination yes that person where do they get their how do they develop are they born with those qualities do they study it and then become some sort of you know higher up and then can give you divinity to the nation great question so let me just repeat to make sure that I have it so you're asking that a person who actually does a divination how are they able to basically give the divination are they trained is it something that they're born with and they just have it they're trained so they definitely would definitely have to be trained you have to be initiated and trained in order to give a divination for someone baba say that again due to Baba your first first person yes yes so I was trained by my first Baba him and his wife so Bible o Lyonya ocean Sina and then when I went through my next initiation ten years later and became a e'en Aoife then I was trained by that temple as well so yeah so to receive further training because there's different Oracle systems that people use based on the types of initiation that they have and you have to be trained in order to do that because there are people who were initiated and who are priests but not everybody gives divination and I also took the first part when you talk about people being born with it and then there are people who just you know you could sit across from them and they could tell you things about yourself that has nothing to do with an Oracle system there welcome and welcome thank you thank you any other questions I believe I see a hand back there yes I have a question about like our ancestors as far as reincarnation goes do you know if any ancestors actually go through the reincarnation process and come back as like into their same family as babies and if so do they choose like certain relatives are certain couples or whatever to come back through like how do they choose who to come back through because I know sometimes I've heared that they come back through like they will come back through the same family maybe through the grandchild or the great grandchild or so forth thank you so is we do believe in reincarnation and coming back and I don't know how of consciousness chooses who to come back to but what happens is is that in some of the naming ceremonies one of the questions that is asked sometimes is whose aura is this that has returned and so that person through divination they can determine who that you know who was that who was here in a former physical incarnation that has returned and then sometimes in divination can't reveal what is the purpose of this person's life returning the answer for you passed and my mom also believes that my grandfather came back as my son because she sees very much similarities and their personalities and even the way they look like my son has gray eyes and my grandfather has Korea and he was kind of the only one in his family that had them and my son is the only one out of my three children that has the gray eyes though she she's always says oh that's that's grandpa you know like wow that's bien that's beautiful hi you started to talk a little bit about how after you were initiated into Shu your perception of Oshun changed and I was just so drawn to that and I wondered if you could say more about it so say more just so I'm clear to say more about how my perception of oceans changed after I was initiated yes so the thing is is that actually my perception started to change before I was initiated and then it was just solidified after I was initiated but as I told you all earlier is that I was given a very surface picture of ocean that ocean was someone who was basically in the mirror all the time you know had to have on her makeup where her perfume was a man-stealer loved to be the life of the party senator attention I mean some of these stories are just the truth so it was very surface and it was very vain and I was like that's not my personality at all and so what happened is it also was through my work I work in the area of sexual trauma and sexuality so I've worked with a lot of survivors mostly adult survivors of sexual abuse and working on conversations and education about the intersection of sexuality and religions and so connecting with Oshun actually helped me to see the sacred side of sexuality that is just not based in the trauma that people experience and so I started to see Oshun in that I started to see ocean more deeply in nature and I began to link just for myself I believe that the abuse and the pollution of the earth and specifically the waters is linked to the abuse that we allow to happen to women and children and so that is something that what I just said right there come to me until I was initiated to Oshun so just really paying more attention to things that sustain life that nurture life and as well as things that I give birth oh we have to hello hi my name is Daniel I want to thank United palace and the speakers as well it's been very stimulating a conversation so my passion is sort of community development in spirituality sort of finding a bridge between those two worlds so it might be a very loaded question but maybe if you just sort of allow the spirit to lead you through the concepts that I asked okay so it may be a three-part question so a community better work so what role does a community play and sort of your spiritual sister but I think oftentimes in Western religions more individualistic but to me the value African village is more community-based okay and what can the black liberation movement Latino liberation movement learn from the old Isha Oh in today's times so and what's the biggest obstacle in a black community or a Latino community to sort of embrace dodosh maybe talking about animal sacrifice okay so let me just recap all right okay the role of community number one number two black liberation Latinas liberation three what would the biggest obstacle to more blacks and let seeing it's people practicing this in particular is the concept of animal sacrifice something that keeps okay all right so let's start with the world of community of you cannot practice this tradition without community even for me my mentors they did not there's okay there's a word called la la house and so in many Arisa communities there the people will have a leis that they were gathered in so it's not in a building like this in LA is a spiritual community where people of a specific lineage whether it's a five buchumi condom bleh etc where they come together and they worship and they do rituals and give guidance and the community usually initiates someone so community is essential for me my first teachers they they had a community and then they scale down a little bit but even without having it formalized the way that they to my understanding it was much larger before I came unto the scene I'm actually one of the babies of the group and I'm no baby and still I had the sense of family and community with them though it was smaller that was still there we would do things we would go I think the fall equinox we would get together we would go sweat you know and at a reservation and participate you know in the sweat lodge and we would get together in the Fall Equinox the Yemaya priestess in Queens she would do things for the ancestors for Ori and though the different people that she invited were not in my intimate community with my mentors there was still that communal feeling because she sent the invitation out and everyone come so you need community there are some people who decide to withdraw and go their own way sometimes once they are initiated because if some spiritual communities can be abusive and not holistic and so some people do that and if that happens that still doesn't mean that you can't practice in your own way so that's the first part the second part is about black liberation and Latinas liberation and I'm trying to get more understanding do you want to know what is the theology of that and nourish your religions or what what exactly is it that you wanted to know about that welcome say maybe the connectivity maybe how could sort of all these shots of course they wouldn't need answer veneration but it's also something you get in exchange like me so how how can you sort of bridge the old Isha to the black liberation movement in a way that sort of in a way that it's practical in today's contemporary society okay all right that's a great question and that's something that I will need to hmm but I'm gonna give what comes to mind off the top of my head which is not to practice in secret and to stop hiding that remember when I was talking about dive this was dialing it back here dialing it back there dialing it back here one of the places that I would dial it back was even being a practitioner I've been practicing for almost 17 years in people there are people not because of my own Domitian now because it's on my website but people did not know that I was a priestess for years they were shocked you know I didn't have my head wrapped in a long skirt I don't wear my decades every day I wear them when I feel like it I mean that has nothing to that's just a personal thing but part of it is really coming out and I get why we hid because there has been direct you know discrimination and bias people slandering the tradition misunderstanding it and the same way that people have risen to combat anti blackness in different forms you know throughout different like in media and politics we see people rising and standing up and you can say you know afro latina as well really afro at 10 X 10 X for those who wonder why I'm saying that it's because I heard a prominent speaker in the sexuality field advocate like who was Latino advocate x2 include all genders versus over age so I didn't make that up just much I don't know so even you know it for those communities too for people to stand up in assert this is part of my culture it's not less than I deserve to be at the table like everyone else and for me since I'm very much involved in interfaith I am consistently advocating for the indigenous traditions to be at the interfaith table and if we are not included and given a seat at the interfaith table that we need to go construct our own we should have our own anyway but we you need to have everyone there so I feel that coming out of the closet really working on releasing the shame because it is trauma that is built into years of having to hide and suppress because you could be killed for practicing these traditions that it is the healing of that that will lead to our liberation and then your last piece I hope that somewhat answered that second part the last piece in terms of what blacks that also has to do with the prejudice the lack of understanding that was systemic and I think that the whole part about animal sacrifice is used as something to drive a wedge and there are other religions that do do animal sacrifice so for those of you who don't know animal sacrifice is a part of the practice and as I say to everyone some people believe in it some people don't but what has happened interestingly with this tradition is that people have made animal sacrifice than said that it's the most important central part of the tradition and that is completely not true not everyone does animal sacrifice and indigenously the purpose of that is that if someone I don't really think of something like a I'll just say a hint and they did divination and they said we need to offer a hint for for some serious reason there is a ritual that is done in the offering of that hen that hen is looked at as sacred that hen is cooked and prepared and usually most times eaten by the community for whatever meal that people are going to eat and the thing with animal sacrifice I say if people wear leather that's that's an animal if you eat meat are you there if you if you didn't grow up on a farm are you there when they're actually butchering the animal to prepare it to be sold in the grocery store and the purpose of animal sacrifice is it has to deal with the blood when oxygen hits blood that it you know it immediately you know starts to change and decay so it's something that has to do with the manipulation of energy but what happens is when we have groups that are on the margins and that have been oppressed people take the one aspect of that tradition that is out of step with what the dominant culture says is okay and they paint the whole tradition in one broad stroke so if people can be educated about these traditions and focus more on what I have been speaking about with rev order for the past I guess our so then I think some of that would break down the resistance that's actually I think an excellent question because as that was one of my concerns as you know discovering my indigenous roots I was like oh my god does that mean animal sacrifice but the truth is animals are sacrificed all the time we just don't see it because we see the finished product in the grocery store now I'm a vegetarian but I'm not that vegetarian that beats people over the head and says that they shouldn't eat meat it's one thing for an animal to be sacrificed to feed a community and if there's a spiritual component to that so be it it's another thing I think of the senseless you know sense with slaughter of animals is something different but what what what's being done in ritual it's not like it's something that's going way stand more than more often than not it's being consumed yeah and can I say one more word about sacrifice is that the whole purpose of sacrifice removing the whole animal aspect from it is that the person the purpose of sacrifice the way that I view it is to participate in an act that is in an effort to make something holy and sacred so for me in my practice the way that I practice is that the sacrifice might be lighting a candle and the offering of a prayer the sacrifice might be that I am so consumed with anger that I have to go through some sort of process and maybe sit across from a spiritual counselor or some other type of professional to deal with my anger and release that and sacrifice that I may need to sacrifice my arrogance in a particular situation sacrifice my need of being judgmental and self-righteous and so there's a more broad definition of sacrifice and how we work with that in our tradition and sacrifice is a part of life if any of you are in a long-term committed relationship or parents you have made quite a sacrifice the marriage ceremony or whatever ceremony if you are married that's the ritual but the sacrifice happens after the ritual because that's when the real work begins any other questions you said earlier that you believed if if I remember correctly and correct me if I don't but I believe what you said is that you believe that the abuse that goes on with women and children is directly connected to polluting and abusing water could do an Earthbound can could you expound upon that and give us some more information about that it's just a feeling that that I have that just came to me because we're very careless with the earth the earth gives birth to a lot of things for our use and for our consumption and I believe that we take it for granted women give birth to children children are the future and we disregard children we say that we love children in this country I know we're very judgmental of what we see happening in other countries but some of the abuse that we allow to go on we're very indifferent to and I know this is supposed to be the age of hashtag me too these things have been going on for millennia and it's getting worse and the pollution of the earth is getting worse and just as women are crying out and more people are getting involved in sustainability environmental justice I think that this is a result of the earth and people saying that they can't take it they mean just can't take it anymore we have to rise up and we have to do something before it's too late and so my connection with Oshun and particularly to water in my personal work and my professional life brought that to my awareness and I just I just feel that in my heart I think we have time for one more question I believe there was one over here ok two more questions if we make it quick yes I just have a very quick question thank you for coming I am very drawn to the Orisha faith I've had divination I had confirmation through well not confirmation actually more of a revelation through divination to become awash in the religion since that divination about two months ago I feel like I've hit a wall in terms of just feeling overwhelmed not really knowing what the next step would be to join a community I've done my research however I found not a lot available so my quick question is what are your tips for individuals interested in walking this faith on how to navigate it and taking those steps beyond divination to actually become a part of the community okay that's a great question well sometimes it would be simply you say that you've had divination and we can maybe talk a little bit after we formally close but usually the people who provide divination may have some tie to a community and that could be a way to move forward with the person that you're receiving the divination from even if that person may not formally be in a community because sometimes there's people who are initiated in Nigeria or Cuba or Puerto Rico and Brazil and they might be here so their community might be in another country if it's not here but maybe they know someone who is part of a community that they could direct you to so that would be one way there's also organizations in New York that have different educational forums one I'm thinking of the top of my head is a Caribbean cultural center it's on East 120 fifth Street between Lexington and Park I forgot the exact address but it's closer to park and they if you just go to their website I think it's CCHD I org just google Caribbean culture Center and look and see what kind of classes and offerings that they have and that could be a way to find more information as well but usually it's word-of-mouth and when I've told people who are interested especially people who are interested in the branch of arisia faith that I'm not in to really connect with their ancestors to to put it out in prayer that they be connected the right people because I've seen that work for me when I was ready to go on my next step beyond arisia initiation I just put out the in prayer and the intention and I trusted that when the time was right that things would come together and that's exactly what happened I didn't know who it was going to be I just knew that it was time for me to make that next step in the journey and I did you're welcome hi so my question is not really quite a question it's more about I find it very fascinating that you're also a psychotherapist and you have your belief you know in theory shows and how has shown helped you you know integrate with your with the people that you help with with your belief you know how has she because you've spoken a lot about a trauma sexual abuse what does it mean intimacy how has she guided you to pretty much embody what you know through her work through you spreading that love and I guess because her concept it to me it's not only beauty but it has to do with self-worth and you have a lot of people that walk around for every wounded not knowing who they are so I feel like you talking about a shewn has really sparked and hit deeply to me because that's how I was raised I was raised that I was told she was look you know looking in the mirror she had to be blonde and beautiful and what I'm finding out through my journey is that you need to love yourself first in order to spread love to others and when you accept yourself you're able to integrate degree with your Divine self and with that divinity you're able to cept others and see sides of you as mirrors to what you see and I don't know if this makes sense but I was just wondering that how how has it been your journey ever since you've connected with her and spreading your joy in love with the clients that you have that's a great question thank you you brought up the mirror so I'll use the mirror as an analogy so the reason again when I didn't know as much or study as much and I would see this mirror all I saw was vanity when I would see depictions of ocean looking in the mirror and then when I got to understand is that that mirror was really allowing ocean to remind us to to really see ourselves through our own eyes and not the ideas that others have been planted within us so I can be working with somebody who I see is a beautiful holistic being who's so talented and gifted and I just don't work with you know survivors that was them that I've actually now probably just do more general spiritual counseling but when that was the majority of the work that I was doing people had a self-concept that was either rooted in the abuser the people who were bystanders and allowed that abuse to happen and what really needed to happen is a process of teasing out those parts that really was not them somebody put that there and learned to look through their eyes of the reflection with love and to see that reflection of themselves in a completely different way I have some people in my workshops sometimes just stand up with their arms outstretched and say I love my body and I'll say how many of you can do that how many of you can actually stand up stretch your arms out and say I love my body exactly as it is and I was just at a workshop I think of June 30th who I was at a church upstate and you should have seen that looks people like well but it was a stretch and that was a good stretch and so we were focused on just holistic sexuality at that particular workshop but that's ocean work that is that's the real mirror work looking in the mirror in seeing oneself through the eyes of love is the divine sees you which is through the eyes of love thank you those are some really wonderful questions and comments shall we bring Tracy back out yes that's a bring reference where as where is our Tracy just to give you a little bit of background on Tracy friendship Tracy is also an ordained interfaith minister a drum circle facilitator a ritual drummer a musician obviously a Reiki Master and ceremony efficient if you'd like more information about what Tracy does you can find that at WWC great space ceremonies calm additionally shannon has kindly provided us with some information it's actually information that is given to seminary students and it's on that table that pedestal in front of the stage which you're welcome to take a copy before you go please help yourselves that's all been prints it out for you and it's more information on the tradition itself and oh yeah thank you for reminding me of that so when you asked about more information there's links there's resources on there too for more information if you want to read or just discover things that we didn't talk about today so as they are passing that out I want to explain to you how we're going to close afternoon and I wasn't just saying now thank you so much for having the order Reverend Jose dr. Reverend Jose Ramon thank you whenever you watch this for inviting me and asking me to come and thank you Tracy for coming and blessing us I've heard Tracy drum it's part of this collective and I have to just tell you these sisters who gather and drummer can really shake the roof when they get together it's really something amazing and Tracy and I we met in one spirit so just glad that we could all come together in this way so today is the full moon and with the full moon one of the things that I think about when I think of that brightness of the Moon is the importance of self empowerment and coming into power and so if there's any one spirit folks here from who just went through their first year of seminary this you'll get a treat because this will be a repeat for you but we're going to change do a chant called ba da da ba ra and you we're all going to do this together I know aren't you excited or and but I mean it can mean for some people strength it also means power so when we say ba we are trying we are saying it in with the intent of raising up power and while you all say but I I will be saying or regio a chant or regio all you're going to do all you have to do is say ba da ba ra so let's the first before we get started can you just all say bah bah bah dah but ah okay good so we're when Tracy starts with the drum we're just gonna start chanting by ah not yet though ba ba ba ba and as you chant thank you when I started okay and as we chant by ah I am going to say a chant called or regio Ori is the first word ji is the second word o is the third word or regio means or ree wake up so we want our essence to wake up so when I am that's my part I'll be saying or eg Oh and however I do that all you are to do is keep chanting what bah and as we chant this feel yourself becoming more empowered on this full moon and the importance of your own self empowerment so that's what we're going to do any question girls and boys boys and girls any questions at all before we start are we ready folks just like the bow tie with you as well or eg or easier Oh easy orgy Oh bujji Oh easy Oh easy Oh oh-oh-oh now we're gonna see or eg you [Music] may all those gathered here today all of those watching now all of those who will watch this at a later time in this moment connected to there were membranes of their own divinity may we all remember to walk in to the consciousness and the light of our power may we all choose my pen lay good character may the ancestors remind us of our divinity it encourages to make this world a better place for the next generation and all the generations to come by shame a shame I shall join me in thanking join me in thanking being for Reverend DeShannon Bowens and Reverend Tracy Hamilton ladies thank you so much thank you so much [Applause] [Music]