what's up manufacturing all-stars today you're going to learn about one of the best digital twin solutions in all of manufacturing called emulate 3d now if you've been watching manufacturing happy hour for a while you know that we've done a shorter episode on this before called how digital twin technology is used in manufacturing that's about 12 minutes long but today's conversation is going to be much more in-depth because it's going to cover a demonstration as well as a presentation at the start now this was recorded during one of our recent manufacturing happy hour community happy hours more on that in a second but our featured guest today who's going to be leading the demonstration is tyler phillips he's the longtime gm of emulate 3d in the americas and has a big history with software simulation as well as visualization throughout his long career really excited to have him talk to you but just since this is a long conversation i do want to give you a little preview of some of the things to come if you do want to skip ahead around the 13 or 14 minute mark that's where we really get into the demonstrations where we start with a canning and filling line closer to the 19 18 minute mark or so is where we're gonna have a lot of different discrete applications like brick palletizing cookie making tons of different things so if you do need to jump ahead you can do that all time stamps are in the comments below so if there is just one thing you're looking to get out of this you can move to that part of the video but i would encourage you to stick with us at the start because for the first 10 minutes we're going to do a quick presentation around three biggest things you can take away about emulate 3d and that covers demonstrations simulations as well as emulations so it really covers the full spectrum where demonstrations are something you'd really use in the front end of a sales cycle when we get and then we'll go through that to simulations to emulation which is really the digital twin aspect of emulate 3d where you can use it to mimic a controls program you actually hook it up to your control so you can do virtual commissioning this saves insane amounts of time so i'd highly recommend to stick with us from the start if you can now i did mention that this was recorded during one of our manufacturing happy hour industry community sessions if you're interested in joining that you can go to manufacturinghappyhour.com community to join our group of over 200 manufacturing leaders that will take you directly to linkedin where this group lives that's where we schedule our conversations we do sessions like this once a month if not more frequently like once a week was what we were doing at the height of the pandemic where we'll do networking sessions we'll bring in leaders in the manufacturing industry to do fireside chats or in the case of today we'll do an in-depth technology demonstration anyway enough of an introduction let's get you some information let's get you a demonstration around emulate 3d i'm excited to hand it off to my friend tyler phillips stay innovative stay thirsty enjoy the demo cheers so let me take a few minutes just for those of you some of you have actually i think been through a demo with me with uh one or more prospects but i just want to go through a brief orientation of what um emulate 3d is and how we talk about it because you know we talk about digital twin we talk about emulation we talk about simulation we talk about digital thread we talk about controls testing and all these terms carry baggage with them and so as soon as one of them has said whoever hears it is going to attach whatever they know about that term or whatever they think they know about the term or whatever that term means to them to that word so let me level set on a couple things of what we do with emulate 3d what we don't do because that will help you determine where you might have fits and where where you have opportunities and then i just want to talk about and then i'm going to just bring up some videos and let them play for a little while while we chat and then you know we can do whatever so i'm here with you for the for the time and happy to do it so when we talk about whether the term digital twin or whether that term is digital thread or whether that term is controls testing or virtual commissioning we always come back to these three chord terms demonstration simulation and emulation and when we talk about those the reason we talk to those is we think we can eliminate some of the clutter that's sometimes attached to terms so right now out in the world if you hear the term digital twin you'll hear a lot of people saying we do digital twin and when you dig down to the heart of it they they've grabbed that term because it's kind of popular but what they do is really what we would think is digital twin so we use these terms emulation simulation and demonstration to talk about creating 3d models that are used for things like sales purposes when we talk about demonstration to create 3d models that are used for things like testing throughput of a system or time instead or utilization that would be simulation something that's all self-contained and then we talk about emulation or the alternative terms would be a digital twin or virtual commissioning or controls testing and that is creating this digital model that can be connected to external controllers in order to test the interaction of the equipment or the system and the controls and that's what we talk a lot about in the in the kind of um since the acquisition and being part of rockwell because obviously that's a huge fit and that's where we were in a compass partner before is is because of that connection but i also don't want to downplay the fact that this can be used um by itself standalone in simulation or what we call demonstration or simulation mode and there's a lot of application for that as well and probably i'm guessing just now but fully half of our customers probably haven't yet ventured or may not ever venture into the controls testing space but find a lot of value uh in in the simulation part of it um so in talking about that i just want to go briefly through just three things and three terms then i want to show you some videos and talk about just real briefly i'll breeze through them then we'll let them run out of loot but so when we talk about the emulate 3d software we're talking about a single application a single framework but we license it out at different levels so you can license out in a level called demo 3d or a level called sim 3d or a level called emulate3d and depending on those licenses um you will have a different feature set and demo 3d kind of applies to that demonstration modeling sim 3d to a self-contained simulation of a system and emulate 3d to controls testing but let me go through those individually really quickly so demo 3d is this ability to use this core model in in the 3d space to create a visual experience that you can have shareholders share right so whether they're all internal whether it's internal and external whether it's a customer and a vendor whether it's a a customer and a consultant the ability to get into a system whether that's looking at it on a screen sharing a video getting in in virtual virtual reality the ability to share that experience and thereby get buy-in and effectively communicate that's that kind of core demo 3d in addition that core demo 3d is the model building environments where we always live when we're doing anything and so on top of that if you will on top of that demo 3d we can inject this experiment management where we can you'll see in the that top window there that kind of looks like a spreadsheet we have five different experiments set up we have a different number of bays a different number of shelves and a different number of vehicles in a storage and retrieval system and we're going to run experiments to see what happens with those different variable combinations and then look at the throughput so we turn that all on set up set it go away for the night come back in the morning and depending on you know how long those models run we then have our for example throughput or we might be looking at time and state or utilization or we might be looking for specific bottlenecks or we might be experiment experiment experimenting with different types of demand or even different um layouts to look at which one is going to meet the means the the needs of the system and that's the sim 3d part if you will of emulate 3d and then on top of that demo 3d core we can also create these dynamic digital twins that define all the ios of the system and then actually instead of having a simulated world where those seeds are controlled by different types of logic to say how does the system work we simply connect via server connection to the actual controller right so we're connected to the compact guard logic so we're connected to whatever and it doesn't have to just be rockwell product could be a variety of other products and that control logic is going to drive the model we aren't importing the logic and interpolating it anyway we are um pretending we are are acting like the controller the controllers actually control it we can do that through an actual controller we can do it for example through logix emulate um but the highest fidelity comes when we have that actual hardware attached so that's that's three levels demo 3ds and 3d and emulate3d again those are all in the emulate 3d environment they're all the same application it's just how we authorize that so someone who may be a little bit averse to getting into a software that's going to cost them 35 or 40 or 45 thousand dollars to do controls testing because they don't want to do controls testing but they have some they have some significant opportunity to demo their systems um they may be able to get into a license of demo 3d for 20 000 and fit all their needs right if if we look at these from a kind of project progression standpoint it's another way to think of these kind of different feature sets demo 3d generally used at the front end of kind of processes or or the front end of the design process or the prototypical process of saying hey we've got either a green field or changes to a brownfield here are the options let's look at it let's get everybody on board let's see how it's going to fit let's see how it flows let's make sure it fits in the facility let's make sure we have enough space in certain areas let's make sure the flow is correct once we've narrowed that down to kind of the system we think works then we can use sim 3d to analyze with that that system experiment with it and determine it doesn't meet the requirements of the system for example i had somebody's working with just the other day said look this system has to meet a 40 increase in demand which is what we project we'll have next fall as opposed to this fall so they're able to build their system out and use different sets of demand injecting loads if you will loading up that system at different levels and say oh yeah it will or guess what we don't have nearly enough for example packaging areas or palletizing areas or we have a bottleneck in this machine how are we going to make sure that's future proof for what we need and then once that design is locked in through this experimental process we can then take the emulate 3d controls testing part of it and test the controls those can be intertwined those can be independently done for example we have customers who for whatever purpose for whatever reason they say we're really good at designing the system we just need to make sure the controls are right or others to say we don't do controls at all we just design systems somebody else is going to write the controls but we need to make sure the system will theoretically meet the demand before before we get there so just one more slide and then let's look at some videos and talk to them so as you're thinking about this and as we're talking to to uh uh uh stakeholders and and prospects and customers and they've got things like that what are the value propositions well they're pretty wide uh and they're also fairly deep and so it depends on the application it depends on the customer it depends obviously what they're using it for but generally speaking these are the kind of things we're looking for and hearing about uh from users demo 3d ensuring that all their stakeholders are able to share the project vision in a coherent way so you've got people over here working on spreadsheets for throughput you've got people over here looking at a cad drawing you got people over here who are doing the finance and then you got a systems integrators trying to get all around that and suddenly you get them all around the table or in our world that we're living in today all around the screen we're all around screens and they go you know what i had no idea that's what it was going to be that makes total sense now you guys kept telling me that it was going to fit and i just couldn't figure out how it would but now i can see how the flow works right the system fits our facility great right so it can be a great sales tool a great project uh um kind of sharing tool and a way to reduce development time by getting those concepts quicker it's in 3d no main goal there is reducing risk uh in investment and reducing risk in in um uh you know problems that come up without fully analyzing a system and how it meets the knees and last of all and you guys have probably all seen the slide that we use sometimes it says take take controls testing off the critical path move it up under the design phase and get it out from the area where it can be highly compromised so we're not spending three weeks on on the floor with a customer we're spending three days because we've already done 90 of it and that's where that controls testing part comes in so let me close this screen and see if i can do this very well we'll see really quick that's not the one we wanted hold on just a second take your time tyler i i do have a question maybe a bit of i want to throw out there um so i have heard that this is on the emulate side kind of like the far end the digital twin end of the spectrum like that's a tool that's allowing people to reduce their on-site commissioning time by like 90 is that accurate or am i over exaggerating no you're not we we do get we we do certainly get reports um of that kind of savings we we routinely let me just make sure we get this new screen sharing here let's see where is it where it looks like it looked like it was working there a second working there for a minute yeah we i i saw it and can i just get some head nods were other people seeing some simulation in the background looking looking good yeah let me get rid of this here if i can cancel that okay let's try it again can you guys see a video running here yes okay good i'm just gonna see if we can get these running they may run on a loop i think they are yeah so that's a really good question so we get customers who obviously the experience they have can be highly variable but we get customers who report all the time we have reduced our our field commissioning time from three weeks to three days or we've reduced it from a month to a week so how you calculate you know how much are they getting done virtually instead of in real time is it could be a little bit tricky right is is that 75 if you're going from four weeks to one week well maybe but you know sometimes the last 20 of the work takes 80 of the time so it really depends but we do see people reporting that um and you know saying things like two hours in the lab saves me a day in the field so the goal is to get to that 80 85 90 kind of range where we can start saying hey i've accomplished these things before going to commissioning i don't have to do them now my fat is essentially done except for my 12 check box items that i can't do otherwise and some of the things that people experience especially are things that they would love to do in commissioning but by the time they get to commissioning they're either too time consuming too expensive too dangerous or maybe they're always that way right too much raw material gets gets burned up too much time is taken by a facility being shut down uh because or a line being shut down i'm going to advance to another slide here i thought i was playing the loop but we'll see here we go we'll just let that one play for a minute um uh so so it is going to be variable yes you those are those are accurate um you know i'm sure there's cases where people have less depending on what they're doing um we also however you know there's there's people who will be doing using one thing for example they may be doing a commissioning project but they will also come upon things they didn't realize we had a really interesting experience in our user group last year where somebody came to present on commissioning a it was a bus body paint line so they're actually painting you know like uh bluebird buses right the big bodies and the job was to commission but what happened is once they got the layout uh from the system designer and they were gonna start working on commissioning they first created the system made sure the flow was right and they found out that the design was bad and what happened is they had put the end of the paint booth too close to an external wall and so they had to turn the power and free system pretty tightly and when the dogs pulled the body around if they'd actually had that as a real system and turned it on the rear end of the bus was actually going to crash through the side of the paint booth well it sounds kind of silly and stupid but until somebody visualize it they said well wait we can't do the commissioning on this yet because you know what the system isn't it's not gonna work we're gonna ruin these papers so they actually caught that very early on were able to get redesign and so not only did they save the time they would have with commissioning but they caught a real big error that nobody had seen just by kind of you know the static work that had been done so let me sit through these really quick just to give some examples of of what kind of things emulate 3d gets used for first of all you know we get used heavily in manufacturing and material handling right this is a discrete event simulation software at its core that works together with physics engines and the kind of physics we're talking about are essentially newtonian physics right what we would call rigid body volumetric physics so we're talking about the size and shapes of packages and equipment and things like that we're talking about gravity friction speed uh mass and time what we're not looking at are things like finite element analysis or thermodynamic analysis so we're not going to tell somebody hey you spec the wrong motor it doesn't have enough torque or we're not going to tell somebody the sheet metal you used is too flimsy it's going to bend when a box hits it but that's there's a lot of assumptions made before you get to this point and that is that the design itself from a from kind of a dfm standpoint has been done correctly but we're concerned about how the controls and the system interacts with the loaded system when the loads are in it so you can see here this is just kind of a little demo of equirock system so it's got some tires and some totes and some boxes and things like that but those are the kind of objects we're talking about bottles tires boxes car bodies those discrete things that are moving around in a system some other examples here this is a really interesting example that uses our new cad as the model technology where this is by a consulting company in france that built this very um detailed uh model of a brick palletizing system essentially so these are pallets of bricks very heavy industrial bricks um looking at making sure the controls are right you see this beautiful cab this was cad that was given by the the customer the or the sorry the manufacturer the vendor of the equipment so that as this company was doing the integration they could do some analysis here this was a fully emulated model this is a video captured from that you guys some of you have seen this one this is a model that was put together for by haskell for this cookie baking line this is cool because it has actually a mixture of discreet and and continuous and the continuous is kind of extrapolated we're not worrying about for example the pressure in the tank or the recipes but we are keeping track of when it becomes empty um by decrementing the volume in there and this is when you probably see me maybe at automation fair or something like that um this is a little mail sorting facility this was their first kind of demo model they put together where they're actually filling boxes with certain kinds of paper and you can see physics are actually working their physics with paper interesting because of the wind blows you have a different uh different thing going on a company called psi engineering this is a model that we created for a prospect up in canada that makes these um pan stackers for baking for industrial baking i don't know some of you have probably seen stuff like this it's pretty cool to go to industrial baking show and realize that everything we eat even stuff that we never thought of as being industrialized is made like this and you can see in this model for example all the magenta cones up at the top are actually sensor fields that are being counted for by emulate 3d and when a pan reaches the sensor it signals all kinds of things to happen the elevator that's moving the stack up stops and arm reaches down it grabs the pan it moves it and so we can do all this kind of very detailed modeling up to and including all the ios from things like the sensors and the motors and the lifts uh and uh those types of things and then i think there might be one or two more in here let's see if we can well that's the last one in the loop so we can zoom back really quick because some we did talk about just so you know so uh this is uh a really cool model that was uh from a customer cad of a pharmaceutical insertion machine um i don't want to um i don't want to make anybody think all we do is just local machine stuff because you can model very large systems but more and more people are concerned uh about specific machine controls here's one uh some baked bean palletizing um that shows how the physics work uh and this one was one we showed a pack expo this is actually a machine that was at pac expo it's a little poker chip machine so those delta robots are picking up the poker chips off of the conveyor belt and putting them into a little sorted area and that's when we had emulation running on as well and then back to the back to the uh camera or the bottling line so i'm just going to let this run through the loop and i'm happy to answer any questions and just chat if you'd like i'll also throw one other thing out there um since this is our digital twin session um i encourage you to ask questions to tyler but um this it's also a fair game since this is a happy hour it's not a webinar um it's also fair game to this for this to become a let me let me call it a democratized digital twin discussion here what you guys are seeing um in your experiences so far you know it looks like there are 20 of us on a call today so i know some of us have dealt with this already some of this is uh new to some of us some of this is out you know for those of us that are marketers or in e-commerce outside of our scope a little bit but um you know just so you know that the conversation can be um a bit broader and not necessarily just questions for tyler but definitely hit him up because he is the expert on this if you have questions hey chris it's uh oliver and tyler uh thank you for a great presentation um a question for you and there's a couple questions in the chat that i i want to make sure we don't lose as well but the one that i want to ask is this is a tonic you know um it looks like a ton of computing power is this something like a normal engineering laptop can run if the cad model is already done that's a great question yeah so the the hardware that we recommend because as you as you have noted well first of all these many of these videos i'm showing you are rendered so these are actually mp4s that i'm playing and they've been rendered out of the model some of them frame by frame over who knows how long a week maybe right but um i can just pop i can actually pop open that's a good point well let's see if i can do two things at once so i'm going to close that i've got a printer queue that's going crazy here i'm going to see if i can actually share it share a screen with you guys let's see what happens can you guys did you see an emulator 3d window pop up there yes okay so look you're very brave live demos are always dangerous you know after you've done it for 10 or 15 years this is also the lowest pressure presentation anyone will have yeah that's right you can blame it on the beer if it doesn't work if anybody says hey show me a demo we'll do it so you guys should be able to see i'm rotating this floor around this grid yeah yep yep so so now i'm actually live in in so you'll see the difference let me just go ahead i'm going to go to my quick start catalog and just i'll just rip something out really quick here so uh and and just i'm doing this for perspective so i'm running a alienware laptop it's got a geforce card i think it's either an i7 or an i9 i think it's a quad core and they're pretty fast course but you know i think i think this is probably a 3500 laptop two or three years ago so it's not like we're running a crate computer or something like that um i got a free animator here or a free load creator let me just put a couple actions in here uh see what happens uh pallet wrapper i'll put a little profile checker down here at the end i don't know what we're gonna do with that i may we'll put it up here anyway um so i'm just gonna run this um we'll get some pallets created so you can see that right away i mean you know you're probably losing maybe 20 or 30 or 40 frames by casting i'm seeing a super smooth model those pallets are just beautifully running down the line um no problems anything like that the pallet wrapper is going to rotate around i haven't put any boxes on or anything so to answer the question yeah an engineering desktop laptop in the kind of what we would call a gaming computer a hot gaming computer runs just fine we recommend faster cores rather than more cores because the screen event simulation has nobody in the world yet has discovered a way to do discrete event simulation in multi-threaded processes so it runs on a single core no matter what but a lot of the stuff we do will take advantage of the multi-threads so yeah you know people i actually have a little lenovo yoga that's a four or five years old that i can run a license on and i can do small demos if i was to start you know making a ping pong ball factory i might have problems because i'm going to render every every smear and that gets to be problematic so it gives you an idea hey cool thanks great presentation but but most high-end cad uh you know if somebody's got a cad device or a cad uh cat computer they're already running it'll run emulate 3d was fine we are directx and that's why we recommend the geforce over the quadros quadros you're going to spend three to 10 times more for the same performance because we aren't taking advantage of the opengl good question oliver also i'm looking at this um one person did pop a question and it came from default so i don't know who it is but kyle rogie was going to follow up with it maybe it's that one person i said that you know i liked everybody at rockwell except that one so so this the question is is a plug-in available for robo-guide to leverage the simulation data from that software and bring it into emulate 3d whoever asks that knows the answer and thank you for asking so yes the answer is yes um so we have we have been developing over the last year or so uh partly because we've been able to so uh fanuc has released or as some people like say fanuc that to me that sounds like an eskimo name so i call it fanuc um um they have released a new api for robo guy that allows us to access essentially the controls data from a robo guide program so we've created a plugin where essentially you can tie into robo-guide just like you would a controller so if you've programmed programmed a robot in robo guide we automatically can import the um the cad so we can get that from fanuc and the way that robot works and it will run in the model just like it would just like robo guy would tell it to run so the robo guy becomes a de facto controller and it and it doesn't have to be exclusive so you could have you can when you go in and you go to our tag browser which is here right this is how you connect to a controller and if i go to my controllers and i want it i want to add a server i can choose i can i can't find anything here because i have anything connected but i can go go to different protocols i can go to different plc's and i don't have to be limited to just one so i could go pick my allen bradley plc i'm not again i'm not going to connect but then i could also go connect to robo guide and once i have the tags defined over here in the tag browser and i have all my ios and the expression and the tag values you can run thousands of tags against multiple controllers and that controller could be could be logics emulate it could be a siemens controller and a back off controller and a iteration of robo guide all running different things in the same model if you will so thanks for the question absolutely and by the way we're releasing that on a as approved uh as as approved basis it's not in the current 2019 release it will be put standard in the 2020 release and it's a no-cost ad anybody who has a controls testing or higher license has access to that just like they would if they go in here and add a server just how they have access to communication with all these different protocols and with all the different um you know all the different uh devices okay what else i let's see looks like another one just came in from arjun how does the license subscription cost model work annual renewals monthly um perpetua the licenses are perpetual um which is um based on a couple things one it's we're not doing it because it's the way we've always done it's the way we've always done it because this software is generally bought tactically and not strategically so it's difficult sometimes to support a subscription model because we leave a bunch of money on the table so there's not a lot of price elasticity if somebody needs this they need it and it it's generally more than justified and the roi is very good so the models are the licenses are perpetual you buy the license you own it forever and then there's an annual support maintenance fee after the first year to include you know new updates new releases bug fixes as well as access to technical support there is one exception to that that perpetual um that perpetual issue and i'll tell you what it is because you'll see it in the portal you can buy an ultimate license on a subscription and ultimate is the most expensive highest license but again i don't bring it up and i don't mention it much because my job is to one make sure the customer is happy and two that we generate the best revenue profile for the company and i think in almost every case that speaks to a perpetual license not uh not a subscription but we have had some exceptions where we're doing subscriptions for that ultimate package anything below that is perpetual and maybe to add maybe to add to that and you know one thing they tell you as a sales person over over your lifetime is never answer unasked questions because all you do is confuse your customer but since we're all on the same team here um just so you know the the licenses are all um deployed as they are authorized via server the the software itself is not served because it has to be run locally but the customer can choose to either receive a network hardware key and then they load a small piece of network license server software on their own server and when somebody locally tries to access the software it'll look to the server for authorization or we can do that through a universal licensing service that we maintain that's not yet integrated i don't think it will be anytime soon with the uh with the broader uh rockwell licensing scheme that'll come over time two related questions just i should say these next two questions are related um talking about integration with solidworks going from a cad model um and solidworks to emulate 3d and then shortly after that like support for creo as well from the ptc side perfect thank you so if you look at the screen here i just popped up a menu bar called cad is the model this is a dynamic ribbon it's it's totally customizable a customer can take some of these off they can put other things on they can add items for example if they have specific sensors that they've built models for they can include those here so they can click them and say this item is a sensor and the way this works is i'm just going to create a just really simply i'm going to create a um let's see here i'm going to create a new just a basic object so we have these basic objects let's just call it a let's just create a box so there i have a box right now that box does nothing except any image let's if we can let's change the color of it to something else so it's a little more visible uh whatever gold there that's easy to see so that's a box right it there's nothing about this box except that we can see it but using this cad as the model toolbar we've separated the geometry from the function so i can go in and for example i can touch this select it if you will and i can go into loads and i can say well let's see do i want to make this sorry do i want to make this i'll go to physics i can say now it's a rigid body i just made it a physical rigidbody object and then i get these menus that i can go up and start to add the attributes this is the same thing you can do in solidworks and inventor so this ribbon installs into solidworks and inventor and it allows you to apply all these aspects to the actual solidworks or inventor object that information will remain in solidworks and inventor with the cad so if that cat has to change you don't have to re-import re-export re-import and reassign everything because they can be quite complex if you remember some of the videos we had that pharmaceutical insertion machine i think that had 140 different joints and if you had if somebody said well that wasn't quite right here's the new cat and you had to start over again you're probably talking about days to do that so yes and that's for inventor and solidworks so creole is an interesting beast um so creo does not support dynamic toolbars so we've had some real challenges figure out how to insert this um and we've come to a couple we'll call them um let's call them rest stops let's not call them um let's not call them ends or conclusions so one is um we've created some for i think four five and six credo four five and six we have an exporter tool that allows you to take a file directly from creo and put it into our our our intermediate raw 3d or demo 3d format without having to go through step or i just which is really good because it retains a bunch of properties we cannot yet do this aspect assignment in creo but you can bring it in as an object like this and then start to assign it in emulate 3d also since the acquisition of onshape by ptc it seems based on kind of what we think we know and what we've heard that onshape is going to be the future and that creole may start to be pushed aside so we're trying to figure out exactly where that development goes but we've got exporters with onshape creo and revit so you can plug those in and you can export very nicely from those tools and then we have the plugins with this full active toolbar for solidworks and for inventor as well as by the way and i'll just show you whoops let's see so this we can import a pretty wide range of file formats so there's the file formats we can import okay um you know directx autodesk inventor blender sketchup colada there's step and i just right there uh wavefront vermont solidworks we talked about solid edge point clouds so in almost every case somebody the other day no just earlier i guess was saying we don't have access to the cad but the vendor of the equipment said they can give us a step file will that work and the answer to in most cases yeah they'll be able to bring that in and then they'll be able to use this cat as the cat as the model toolbar to start to assign the aspects to make it a smart piece of g smart smart equipment smart a smart thing got a follow-up question but one more popped in um what's the largest emulate system that you're aware of in terms of axes and i o points we have a lot of folks on here yeah i think well i shouldn't say everyone but a lot of folks that are in the discreet space i would i'd be really curious to know that too like that you're aware of tyler yeah uh it's an interesting question that i don't have an answer for but i could give you some ideas of scale and there's a couple reasons that it's difficult to get an answer for is that because we don't maintain we aren't the we are the modelers we're the tool we create the tool our modelers are out there doing things all the time meaning our customers that we're not necessarily aware of so it's likely that anything that we know about is probably surpassed by something else but we routinely see customers that are building models with thousands of ifo points and multiple controllers so they might be running a model with half a dozen or a dozen controllers and thousands of i o points now there are issues that would need to be considered there's communication speed that needs to be considered so if you're trying to run you know five millisecond updates and you've got a thousand i o points we have a problem uh because that blue cable that's running from the server rack or from the controller to the computer is not fat enough to do that right i mean i'm being euphemistic here but that's just the reality um so there are instances and certainly we've seen customers that built emulation models so large that they've had to break them into multiple models now that's not generally problematic because in most cases that's the way you commission anyway you don't turn on a airport baggage system and see if it works you say okay we're going to do that we're going to do the check-in desks that works we're going to do behind the wall that works we're going to do the security system that works we're going to do the uh you know the sorter that works we're going to do the air side that works and so in most cases and almost everyone i've seen we can certainly model and emulate at a much larger scale than you could do in reality so usually you're getting gain there and it is possible to create multiple models across multiple pieces of hardware that are actually passing loads among themselves and creating thereby a a larger system so you know multiple controllers half a dozen a dozen two dozen thousands of i o points um and that is going to be highly dependent on the amount of communication that needs to be had to to accomplish that awesome i'm glad you've been able to address all all the things have been firing your way i'm gonna open it up to a bit of a broader discussion and tyler i'd like to get your perspective first since you're you're close to this solution but then we'll we'll go a little more general you know one of the reasons we started these happy hours i mean it's been like four months since we started them was because we couldn't travel anymore you know shelter in place and i'm curious with the capabilities of something like this to you know limit the amount of on-site things what have you seen from emulate 3d and then i'd love to hear from everyone else in general what have you seen from digital twins in general over the last four months if you've seen any growth increased usage etc i appreciate that we have seen i think i can say um we have seen a an increased demand for the ability to especially as it applies to um virtual commissioning that people are starting to think about the future and saying if this is quote unquote a new normal i think everybody hates to think that but if we have to at least adjust the way we're working that this can this adds to the value of the tool right we also see uh on a couple different uh maybe a different point different points we also see um a pretty decent segment of our customer base whether that's amazon or walmart and target and others who are seeing a huge increased demand for automation and optimization and this is a tool that fits squarely in those kind of pursuits one more thing because people are working from home it seems to me i you could probably find reasons to say this is not true too it seems to me that people are finding time that they didn't otherwise have to do the kind of things they wish they always have had time to do and doing things like you know doing a digital twin is one of those in other words it seems like a lot of those things that maybe we have traditionally got bogged down with in office settings or in in you know traditional face-to-face settings we're being free to not have to do some of that um and so that's going away and people are starting to spend some time doing things that they otherwise might do so we're seeing actually think um you know i think there was a lot of things that were put on hold there was some things where people were saying we don't know what we're going to do but are now saying yeah this is a this is one of those projects and and one of the things that we can now spend time on that we couldn't or that's going to give us more value than we thought it would based on the new new environment any other perspectives on that you know i know we're all out there poking around the industry right now what if what have the rest you've been hearing if anyone wants to raise their name or speak up i think it's interesting how the term digital twin takes on different meanings depending on whether you're in a discrete manufacturing or a process standpoint or a um you know greenfield environment or a high fidelity simulation environment it's being used in a lot of different demeanors i guess depending on your your domain expertise yeah tim you're right and it's it's one of the reasons that i tend to the first thing i do when i'm talking to a customer or a prospect is say let's talk about what when i say digital twin what that means and i'm not saying i'm right i'm just saying i want you to understand what i mean by that because they'll probably have a different meaning for it so you're exactly right and i've actually um and you know it's almost sometimes gotten uncomfortable for me because i've been on the phone with somebody else who insists that their description of digital twin is right and that's okay and that's why that's why i've kind of sometimes retreated to saying well let me tell you what we do we do emulation let me tell you what that means to us right and so yeah i think you're exactly right no no i'm not saying it's good better and different it's just you know depending on what sector you're oh yeah did digital twin takes on a total different meaning no i totally agree there's no there's no uh no qualitative judgment at all it just is what it is and so it's it's sometimes something that has to be level set for sure i think the thing that i'm um enthralled with is the ability to take you know a 3d emulation like you have here or a 3d laser scan like you know other technologies and combine those with real-time data right so that you can now take a an oem or an end user even if they're having a problem in a working environment through how to troubleshoot it in a virtual environment yeah or or you know whether it's testing and validating to get to a commissioning state or you know two years later you know what does good look like and how do you get the uh the right people involved at the right time without actually touching your physical facility okay i just made the serpentine rail gun guys here it goes it's what the first builder of emulate 3d does every time let's see what happens i better back up we're going to have a problem in just a second uh i have to say as i'm watching this i could watch those boxes come off all day because they always land in a different way in a different place and it is just absolutely mesmerizing maybe i wanted to say the exact same thing that whole time like verbatim you know it's really funny you say that because we we do a lot of live demoing i mean our first goal with any customer once they're qualified is to get in this environment just like we are right so it'll be me and maybe mark sarvo who somebody met or mark amiya and we just open it up like i just did when we start working on it and we can get into the low level detail and that stuff is really cool but inevitably when we hear the wows and the g whizzes it's like oh cool look they're falling on the floor that's so cool and we're like well wait you can actually create logic in here that'll actually mimic the way your real system works well i know but look at those boxes right and so there there is this there is this something about it that is rather mesmerizing and then you start to mess around with different sizes and different shapes and i thought i had this speed turned way up let's uh let's just turn this up to i would i have a thousand feet per minute that seems fast enough how about 10 000. this is where you start i get a little catapult effect to it yeah this is where you start getting some um what we call quantum problems it's probably okay oh it can't it's not long enough to get enough acceleration okay yeah the acceleration issues right yeah yeah but what we can do is if for example if we change the length of this to 100 feet then we start to get the railgun effect right we have some time for acceleration there they go okay so yeah um it is it is quite mesmerizing and if my printer would stop doing that maybe even oh there's wow and now you're getting fancy with it now tyler is there anything you wish we would have asked you that we we didn't on this call no i don't think so you know this is uh this is it's it's a relatively deep and relatively broad um software there's a lot of functionality here we tend to focus a lot on the virtual commissioning because of the nature of what we do at rockwell um i would simply say um don't don't don't let yourself be limited in your imagination by what this can be used for if a customer says well we don't do commissioning or we don't do controls but they're an oem or their system builder or even an end user customer there may be really good applications there and i'm happy to have a chat with any of you at any time just to talk about you know what an opportunity might be and and we never even after 15 years of doing this we are still surprised sometimes when a customer comes to us and says here's what we used it for and we go you know what we never really imagined that our classic example is somebody showed up at our user group meeting and they showed us the demo that they had proposed but they said can we show you something else and we said sure and they popped up a model that they had made for a customer of a chick hatchery because in these big chick hatcheries as soon as the eggs hatch all the chicks get thrown on a conveyor and they wind through conveyor and then they go to a sorting area and the sexers sort them and they throw all the male chicks on one line and all the female checks on another line and all the deformed ones and they actually had a model that little baby chicks moving down a conveyor that were being sorted by hand and they were looking at throughput and how quick people could do things and you know it's it's chris is chris is making it you face yeah but i've been waiting for he would have never put you know you never want to put on an application sheet uh chicks chicks chick hatchery facilities right this doesn't doesn't happen so um you know feel free to hit me on teams or call me anytime and say you have a customer that is sawing late3d but they don't do controls but they were thinking maybe they could use this for x and we can usually answer that question really well in just a couple minutes and and get to a customer that may not otherwise have seemed like the right application so tyler can you remind me your email since we've got a lot of people from outside the organization yeah yeah on this call too tyler dot phillips t y l e r dot p h i l l ips r a dot rockwell.com perfect i'm popping that in the chat right now for anyone uh that wants to follow up with tyler after the call yep and if you want to put my you put my mobile phone in there as well because i i'm kind of as you can tell like well no i haven't ever turned my camera on hold on i'd better do it now i was gonna say as you can tell by looking at me i i've used telephones for a long time uh me and bill have me and bill have the same color well me and tim have the same color too so um let's see here i don't know i don't even know where my screens are anymore i'm totally lost i was going to turn my camera on i'm popping your phone number in here while you hunt that down yeah i was gonna like turn my camera on but oh there's media controls right there let's see oh here we go hey there i am right there so yeah you can tell i've been answering phones for a half a century so yeah if you if you call my phone i still pick them up well tyler we really appreciate you going through everything today i'm sure you probably haven't been checking the chat as often as as the rest of us have but a lot of accolades for you so um since we are getting towards the end i'm going to raise a glass shoe one more time if anyone else wants to join me thank you for the great demonstration tyler um cheers and and i'm going to try to keep mixing these demonstrations like this in on you know a monthly basis within our rotation um as we get towards the end of today's happy hour um the next two that we've got coming up um next week is going to be a fun one i'm surprised it took us this long to get meta but we are doing one that's focused around smart manufacturing and uh technology in the brewing industry in general we're going to bring a few folks from that space on there so that should be a lot of fun i know a lot of us don't necessarily delve in the beer industry but i think you know consider that one kind of a a fun one i'll probably have some beer centric discussions in there as well to add schedule already well um it's not on the schedule yet i'm about to send that out afterwards okay sorry you'll get that everyone on this call i think is on the regular list um that gets these i try not to bombard my whole email list with every invitation so um but i'm looking at the the folks on here you're the core group that we always have so um you guys should be getting them and i know almost all of you are in the industry community where i make sure to post the links as well um and then following that one the last week we'll do one of our typical roundtable conversations more of a bring a friend get to know everyone in the group type discussion and that'll that'll take us through july and i think um that's all i had i have the link to the happy hour community in the chat it's probably five or six behind now but uh pop in there i think most of us are are in that group um and with that um thank you guys for coming this week always a good time and looking forward to another session next week and a big thanks to tyler again for leading us through the demonstration my pleasure guys uh reach out to me anytime it's good to meet some of you new and good to see some of you again great job good thank you you better have a good night thank you very much cheers everyone have a pleasure thank you rest the week