these 30 people have never met by the day's end they may wish they never had for one long day they'll be at the mercy of this woman a retired American teacher who calls herself the [ __ ] some would say with good reason [ __ ] no you're not going to say I'm sorry there's racism for 40 years Jane Elliott's been running an exercise that's ignited controversy around the world it isn't my fault you're stupid should I feel sorry for she says it lays bare the hidden truth about racism in white societies many disagree some vly wrong you doing it again persecuted her for standing out persecuted him for standing out the only change that ever happens when people stand out and I am s to now she's bringing her extreme methods and message to Modern Britain she's about to divide this group her a aim to simulate a racist aparte style regime so watch what's about to unfold with the following two questions in mind will British people accept her regime or stand up to it and does it reveal that we're all more racist than we'd like to [Music] admit [Applause] 6 months ago we advertised for people to take part in a psychological exercise these men and women from a range of races and backgrounds have come to this disused Warehouse in London to participate they don't know what lies ahead you people get in here and sign in now Jane Elliot starts by segregating the group but she's not going to divide them according to the color of their skin put your name under the right eye color brown or non Brown your name write it so I can read it she's deliberately chosen a different physical attribute their eye color sign in no is it brown non Brown what eyes right sit put your legs together I don't have to straddle them and I don't have to stand between them okay any volunteers with blue eyes will be bullied and collared over there and sent to a holding room with a security guard for them the regime of discrimination is already beginning okay okay sit down sit so mul I don't usually do this but I'm going to make an exception in your case oh yeah keep your mouth shut okay and start now I don't play second banana do you understand that and if you want to be cute and if you want to be funny you are in the wrong place you got the wrong color eyes and you got the wrong attitude okay now you're bound to find this less and less amusing as the day goes on save yourself go over there [Music] okay throughout the day I'm based in this adjoining building watching with psychologists Professor Dominic Abrams and Dr fun Baur so it started already it's quite blunt already isn't it I mean uh they look pretty shocked and she she's established a very clear power structure here she is the leader and they have to respect her Authority for this to work and at this point they're all releasing control what she's doing now is making them Release Control so she's in charge but the blue eyes are already compliant they're being shouted out told to sit down shut up I think they think it's a joke they might think oh this is Workshop this is this is just to set us up for the workshop not really realizing the impact it's going to have on them brown or non brown brown go right down there Browne go there volunt with brown eyes are sent straight through to their seats in the main hall this will be the privileged majority group the blue eyes will be held together in an uncomfortable room with just four chairs Co she's friendly isn't she actually she was very rude and monitored by security cameras what do you have in your mouth nothing you aren't chewing gum no anymore don't be go over there and stand until somebody comes for you sit down down now I'm going to give you a piece of advice I don't need cute I gave up cute when I was 18 and you'd better give it up now don't be a funny girl today I'm not amused I've had a bad night and you're going to have a bad day go over there and stand by her brown eyed brown eyed go right there thank you we're not doing too well are we uh don't walk in front of me go behind me and sit down haven't done well at all yet have they yeah we have oh have we what have we done that so wonderful oh it isn't that yeah what a bunch of [ __ ] we over there thank God thank you go there with 15 minutes gone all 30 volunteers are now segregated keep these people quiet keep these people orderly if they get nois they will be ejected from the building the blue-eyed group is now isolated and out of earshot the scene is set for the next phase of Jane Elliot's regime her plan is to get the brown-eyed group to turn against the blue eyes but why what is she trying to achieve it was the 60s when Jane Elliot devised her exercise she was a school teacher in a small all-white American town of the United States of America God Bless America America in 1968 was a segregated country black Americans were dying battling for their basic civil rights when Martin Luther King was assassinated it had a profound effect on Jane Elliot it she was determined to find a way to show her 8-year-old pupils what was wrong with racism you think you know how that would feel to be judged by the color of your skin no I don't think you would know how that felt unless you had been through it would you she wanted them to understand how discrimination by something as arbitrary as IE color is unfair and illogical as it is to discriminate on the basis of skin color [Music] how many in you here have blue eyes okay how many in here have brown eyes it might be interesting to judge people today by the color of their eyes I watched what had been marvelous Cooperative wonderful thoughtful children turn into nasty vicious discriminating little third graders they were [Music] ghastly in race torn America Jane Elliot opened her students eyes to overt racism good morning good morning good morning good morning I'm your resident [ __ ] for the day yay yeah but as she prepares to unleash the full force of her provocative methods on these men and women what will she reveal about modern Multicultural Britain we are going to inject live racism into these people in hopes that in the future they will decide not to let those things happen to other people this exercise is an inoculation Against Racism we can make a difference here [Music] today when you do this exercise in a kind way people think you're weak and they do not listen do I have your attention yeah do I have your attention oh yeah damn right and I intend to have your attention because there's nothing polite about racism the all-h blue-eyed group is now isolated in a holding room at this stage none of the brown eyes know Jane Elliot's true intentions to turn them into a group willing to take part in humiliating the allh blue eyes the purpose of this exercise is to let these nice blue-eyed white folks find out how it feels to be something other than white in the UK for two and 1 half hours they are not going to like it because I don't like them they've already been abusive they've already been belligerent they've already tried to make a joke of something can you make a joke of racism no I can't no I didn't think so can you make a joke of racism can you make a joke of racism let me put it this way you laugh and I'll change change the color of your eyes so [ __ ] fast you won't know what hit you you got it you get angry about racism me yeah yeah who the time you do all the time why is there something wrong with you no no is there something wrong with racists yes damn right if you want to see a decrease in the level of racism in your Society the first thing you have to do is let white people find out how it feels to be on the receiving end of [Music] it Jane Elliot's abrasive style is not to everyone's taste over the years it has been criticized as bullying how do you feel about Jane's style and approach this is an educator a teacher trying to teach these people what it is like to feel discriminated against and you think about adults being taught in that way she's put them in a childlike position which many people don't well nobody wants to experience that as an adult so I do feel that some of her elements are quite harsh she's taking something that's been incredibly important to her in her personal life and in her role as a teacher and she's saying with this I can powerfully demonstrate to a set of people what it's like to be the victim of racism discrimination but brown-eyed adults are much tougher to bring into line than children and Jane Elliot's style soon hits a nerve with some of the white volunteers what they learn today they will either leave in this room or take out of them this room in a very positive way but these people are people you're assuming that they're racist you're assuming they've got a lesson to be learned you know we could be racist why I'm sure you are I'm sure every person in every person in this room let me you didn't you didn't listen to me you're assuming have got a racist attitude just because they're blueeyed if you live in if you live in the UK saying you're saying that they've got more to learn I just think the logic is a bit faltered to try and reduce discrimination racism I don't care what I don't care what you think do you understand that but isn't it kind of contradictory Dam Tre do I care you you trade places with him right now why because I told you to that's the only reason you need go back there yes sir mom well some of us white folks would rather not see white folks verbally psychologically mentally and emotionally abused for a few minutes would rather not he white folks described in an unpleasant way for a few minutes did you get that lesson did you get that message now if you consider this exercise too evil for you to go through it then you need to be somewhere else I would I would much rather be on the blue-eyed side than the aggressive side I don't care where you'd rather [Music] be now are you going to cooperate or not I would I'm saying I would much rather be on re asking you if you're going to cooperate or not it's an exercise for them to understand this is what comes to you because of how you look it's a learning process an excise that removes choice and freedom and autonomy don't have a choice I don't have a choice to be a black woman it was a signed to me when I came into this world you are a black female choice that I'm talking about is a choice of whether I decide to be an aggressor to be someone who marginalizes these people look wait a minute I don't have time I do not have time to convince this young man that what we're doing is all right there's no way I'm going to convince him of that and I'm not going to spend any more time on it get this young man out of here now do any of the rest of you want to leave because here are your choices you're either going to cooperate or you're going to leave it's as simple as that I don't have time exercise your freedom you can marginalize yourself to that lady there it's your choice [Music] [Applause] what do you think is the effect of her throwing him out on the rest of them majority of this group are committed to what she wants to do and notably it's the white members of the group who are uncertain about it and unhappy about it and now another one's walking people in majority positions powerful positions the whites for example don't see there's a problem with racism and it's a really fundamental problem they just don't see there's an issue and this is what we're getting here as well is the the white people in this browney group are kind of saying look do we really need to do this is it really necessary and she's trying to convince them and the rest of the group convincing them that it is necessary now if you think I'm being too harsh on her and him you ain't seen nothing yet because those blue-eyed people are going to commit in here and try to argue are you going to support them no are you going to support them are you going to support them you no you now here's what's going to happen all I want you to do is act white you white folks know how to act white you've been doing it all your lives you know how to act white I think so sure you do you know how to act white you know how to act white not really well can you when you have to just look down your nose everyone can you can you when you have to yeah to place it do you know how to act white of course oh sure you do you know you do and I know you do with two volunteers gone Jane Elliot seems to have quelled the brown-eyed descent but back in the 60s when she divided her original school class she was shocked by how readily the brown-eyed group took to their superiority what happened John Russo called me names and I hit him hit him in the gut she was even more alarmed by the blue-eyed group they gave up their heads went down they [Music] underperformed Jane Elliot felt she had seen the world in microcosm her exercise showed what racism was an immoral and irrational social construct that people were far too quick to sign up to [Music] since then she's put adults all over the world through her exercise and her approach has become more confrontational you're either my way or the highway do it my way or get out of here than you nice out of here what do you just learn now Jane Elliot directs the full force of her confrontational tank tactics towards her prime targets the blue-eyed group now whether or not I like them we're going to let these people in here and you're going to see to it that they understand that we have created a situation for them to learn that we did this for their own good and how should they feel about that thankful grateful and if they aren't grateful what does that prove about them they're ignorant they're ingrates no matter what you do for them it isn't enough that's just the way way these people are the blues have now been waiting in the holding Room for 2 hours time to go ly time too they're about to discover what it's like to be on the receiving end of Jane Elliot's dictatorial regime if one of these boys tries to come at me what are you going to do protect you protect me thank you very much change places with [Music] her so what do you think's going to happen when the blues come in there quick predictions I think the blues are going to stick together I do agree with um Dominic they will stick together I think one person will probably leave get in here and sit down they look very intelligent to you look very in aware look very interested get up here and sit down get up here and sit down get up here you're not sitting in the browney group get up here and sit down you're not sitting in the browney group get up here and sit down my initial reaction was we're into a them and US situation I spotted immediately that the group of the brown-eyed people were looking very aggressively at us they were looking very negatively at us and I knew immediately that we were in for it get up here and sit down you're not sitting in the browney group get up here and sit down now if you look behind you you'll see that most of these chairs don't move for her get out of there Jane Elliot now begins to make life very difficult for the blues do you have a physical problem that will be made worse by sitting on the floor for an extended period of time possibly but I think I'll be okay possibly but she thinks she'll be okay if we find out later that she isn't okay who's she going to blame it on us us so am I going to take that answer no no no do you or do you not I do was she lying before yes yes yes she said possibly but I think it'll be okay did she lie to us yes what do you know about blue-eyed people Liars you find that amusing don't laugh at her she makes you look real bad the blues will be put through a series of classroom exercises basic even child childlike in their Simplicity Jane Elliot has used these over the years with dramatic effect oh her mission is to grind down the blue eyes you know what a redundancy is what they give you money and you leave your [Music] job they give you money and you leave the job once they're feeling downtrodden what they learn from this can be a real Revelation who's responsible for you being on the hot seat right now I am thank you very much now does that teach you something that I have to listen to you is that all and I have to conform to the way you want me to be and not how I am yeah does that teach you something yeah that I'm insignificant yeah does that teach you something yeah yeah what does that teach you I'm worthless what does that teach you if I can make you if I can convince you that you're worthless 45 minutes what could I do if I did with this with you for 30 years you could take away my being and who I am but in Britain in 2009 the blues start to fight back getting right along you do understand you understand then that you are being you understand that you are being discriminated against do you understand that you're being discrimination and downright do you are yeah same do you understand that you aren't liking what you're having yes you need to know that that's not important to me what's important to me is every time you argue you prove that what I said about you is true that you're argumentative that you're belligerent that you're uncooperative that you're uncivilized that you don't follow the rules that you want to have things your own way that you are accustomed to using power and that you don't understand abusing your power do you understand what's going on here tell them what's going white basically it's a lot of people are totally unaware that discrimination goes on as much as it does hey what I want to know what happens when it happens when it happened to you the last time what Happ wait wait wait wait wait you don't have to answer that question yes you do say what you want to say you don't have to answer that when it happens out there in the real world people make a stand it's against the law and people make a stand now I'm making a stand enough and guess how much attention I'm going to pay to that you have a free choice you have a free choice who wants to listen to David speak don't listen to her speak she is not running this show take her out of here take her out of here fine don't listen to her I I understand what you're doing I'm just saying I don't understand why I've spent the morning with these people and none of them are racists just because my my skin isn't black I mean I'm I'm you probably noticed a little bit tubby I've been discriminated yeah I am I've been discriminated about with that all my life I still put up with it I face it I go into shops and see a nice shirt oh dear they don't do my size oh well I'll have to put up with it won't I you can use your lose your tubby but you can't you can't change the color of your skin unfortunately there's a small minority that will use the word racism they band it around when it's not let's use the word itical correctness you're not allowed to use the word [ __ ] anymore to me it's not offensive to you I don't bar black [ __ ] what's that about what's strange is that you've got the blue-eyed people actually source of arguing that racism isn't the problem yeah the blue-eyed people are defending the system they're saying you know we all have to suffer it's difficult for all of us you know the guy saying well I can't get the right size shirks you know this kind of thing and they're they're not still not recognizing the difference in the scale of what's being experienced by minority groups as opposed to what most people in society putting up with which are minor inconveniences by comparison so I'm sensing do people really understand what is racism the group of the blue eyes are white people they're living in their world so we're asking them to live in a world of what it's like to be black or Asian which is quite difficult to do in two hours so in their mind it's like well racism doesn't exist because it doesn't exist to [Music] them Jane Elliot has carried out her controversial exercise all over the world but here in Britain she's met stubborn resistance I'm not going with all this crack you're putting out I'm sorry that's up you when I came here racism oppression was wrong when I leave here I will still think that in the blue-eyed group the allwhite volunteers are refusing to accept the exercise has anything to teach them while the majority brown-eyed group are watching on reluctant to speak out do you think this is going to plan is this how it's supposed to be I don't think it's going quite according to plan in the sense that usually by this point you'd expect the blue eyes to be more Crest fallen and you might expect the brown eyes to be getting more energized about criticizing them the Browns aren't joining in a lot though are they no and I think that probably represents which country you're doing this exercising whereas America there is a strong div or Australia or South Africa and this country is it's more subtle so even though they may have an opinion they're sort of keeping it quiet to themselves do you get angry about racism no you don't no I was brought up by my mom who's white Grandma who's white my auntie who's white my cousin who's white I mean my family is white so the only thing that isn't White is my appearance in terms of my mannerisms and everything else so I I play the game and part of my playing the game is avoiding the situations where somebody could have a negative stereotype of Me based on my name what I look like and I think that's it because once somebody sits down and have a conversation with me they realize I'm I'm not the things that potentially their stereotypes would dictate I should be like Jane Elliot now introduces a setup designed to force any reluctant volunteers to finally Step Into The Fray you stand up here beside me yeah you you you right here I wanted you nice blue-eyed white people to find out how it feels to be on the receiving end of that which we allow to be handed out to whole groups of people every day you don't live what she lives with and you can't argue with somebody's experience no no no if you don't if you don't see the other person's reality then you don't and you don't face that real you're almost part of the problem because you don't see any reason for change it change what change what in the UK the racism it's very subtle it's very subtle it's it's standing in a queue waiting to be served and the lady at the desk or the reception serves the person behind you or the person the white family that's just walked in through the door or or my son running for the bus and getting stopped by the police why are you running I'm running for the bus her child learned something like this every time he walks down the goddamn Street stop and search H and in the in the United States of America any kid stop and search cuz there's a knife eight times more likely to be stopped and searched as a black but you keep saying statistics I'm sorry statistic how it is everywhere all teenagers out at night the police will stop them and look for knives it doesn't matter what col more likely to be one of my best friend is the local Bobby on you're not hearing me I'm hearing you but you feel your now you're getting defensive you are not unique you're not you're still not you're still not hearing the point you're not hearing the point what I'd like to hear more is what you propos to do to actually change all this let's get on to that later how are we going to change I'm so glad you asked that I'm so glad you I'm bored with this [ __ ] now I'm ready for a tea break I want to move on what you're doing is blaming the victim sorry what victim what you're doing is blaming the victim you're say vitim where's the victim you're saying to her what are you going to do to change this going to do she doesn't have the power to change this we you did not did no I'm sorry you weren't [Music] listening what's actually going on here this is a lot what happens in society where people in so much denial that they feel well you sort it out it's your problem when it's actually all of our problem I think the people are actually learning a lot here is the people in the brown group cuz they're learning about how impenetrable this is for white people for majority people that they cannot get it they cannot get this difference of perspective it's really tough for them they either don't want to accept there is discrimination or they don't see the Discrimination or they don't understand what it is when they do see it is to manipulate people arew as the disagreement escalates one of the more cautious volunteers finally steps forward I don't think we are in denial I think you want desperately St I have a daughter that lives not with me obviously but she lives in a very middle class area at very rural area and she's the only nonwhite in her school I will not go and pick her up from school because of my belief of other parents' perceptions of my daughter because her father looks like I do now you can frown as if to say well why why why but the bottom line is after 34 years of my life in this country that's how I feel that's so sad it is so I feel sad okay now now now another reality of it and ask any of my friends is I talk in terms of I play the game okay if you speak to me on the phone you will have zero idea of what I look like you either conform mhm in which case you get an easy life or you fight against it and you'll end up criminalized Outcast and removed from the situation Marvin what you said I agree with but it's not color you could be a skin head and not want to pick your kid up from school you can you can be a me the skin head the skin head can let his hair grow that's they can't we I'm I'm talking wholly and exclusively based on the color of my skin nothing else just just to qualify the thing about the school part of the reason I don't go to school to the school is because I mean I'm mixed race so I'm only half cast my daughter is a has got a white mother which means she's even lighter than me therefore I believe that most if not all of the people at that school believe think she's white if I turn up shock yeah then the children will see a different and treat her different and again it's not necessarily because these kids are are ignorant it's because these kids live in an environment that's wholly of white people I chose to play the game that's not that's it we have to play the game there is this game we have to play to play the game as well my ex-husband for example is in the sporting environment he's taking on top quality customers the RAF people like that but he conforms he has to wear a business suit he has to wear a tie he has to speak beautifully he has his short back and side haircut he looks immaculately groomed he's actually a rugby player from way back he's happy wearing sloppy old jumpers he used to have his hair longer we have to conform as well is he white that's not conforming so I'm you're talking about conforming I'm he would conform to pick up my daughter from her school he would not turn up looking like a Scruff bag with long hair bad clothes bad breath unwashed bad it's exactly the same you're talking about your school environment with your daughter my school environment with we all agree that it's not the same they both the same it's not the same it is sorry maybe to let's let's agree let's agree to [Applause] disagree but there was the assumption that racism is only particular for people who are black and I don't actually agree with that I think there's racism for white people just as much I've been in the situation many times where I've had remarks made about my person the fact that I'm white that I'm blonde that I'm getting old or whatever um I've come across just as much discrimination in my life as possibly many black people [Music] have but it's interesting now at the brown ey group are actually talking up you know the blue eyes were obviously saying this is where I stand I don't agree with this and the brown eyes saying no listen this are the experiences that we have had and making relation to what people are actually saying in the blueee so what do you think this tells us then about discrimination in Britain in Britain you've got an establishment with power and that establishment people are part of it the rules the laws that we have the things that people take for granted as being fair but they privilege a certain set of people more than everybody else so it's not that we have one particular racial group that everybody's racist against is that there are many minority groups all of which are disadvantaged by this system of power but you might walk away from this and say the white the white people in the blue-eyed group are just in denial I I totally agree because there's a sense of like well we're not racist and racism doesn't happen because the discourse now is that people are feeling whether you're black white asian everyone feels they're being discriminated against but what people are failing to recognize is the issue of power and this is what Jane is trying to present but they're not actually quite getting that right now but Jane Elliot is undeterred and the segregation of the two groups continues during the food [Music] break as the blues are kept together and fed basic sandwiches the Browns are given the freedom to enjoy a buffet and look what they're getting have you looked they're getting CAU on blur we get a few SES this is where it takes the piss actually it's not just the blues who are feeling hard done by over in the browney group The Black volunteers feel there is a lesson to be learned but one of the white volunteers doesn't think it's fair to label all whites as racist I'm getting drawn into something that I don't want to argue about because I don't want to see other people abuse but the thing you are saying that just because you are black only black people experienced racism I grew up in a country in front of people where there weren't any white people I understand racist and just like you understand racism I don't have to be black to understand what it feels like to be a black person you don't have to be white you can still empathize with people when we first started most of the people in the in the the blues were in complete denial and and then some shifted and some still some are still some are like this some have gotten up and walked out because they refus to walk in our shoes for two hours being picked on being funny you're closing yourself off that's rubbish that's absolutely rubbish it just means it affects you here's the way it is the exercise is not over do you understand that because the buy people don't so there is more abuse to come if that's what you prer to call it I [Music] just she wanted she wanted people people to understand what black people going through but she didn't want to understand what anybody else was going through you know I hate people putting other people down it's wrong and I don't like it you know it doesn't it it's not about being black or white to me and I think it was a bigger issue it wasn't just about she made it too simple she was separating us there were black people and there were white people and that was as far as she concerned that's all it was Jane Elliot's beliefs and methods have always been controversial is this bullying or is her unpopular approach revealing there is more racism beneath the surface than we think the once you start thinking oh everybody's looking at me I'm Different everybody's everybody's now nearly as many of them as us so they're not different nobody you know but in my class one third in my class a black children then I've got a bunch of halfcast children I've got one little girl who's stunningly beautiful she fell over scraped all her face I admit I was slightly surprised that where she scraped all her face it's all pink underne right did I expect it to be black I don't [Music] know [Music] so what you're saying is that everything that people of color say to you isn't true it's their imagination they're paranoid they aren't paranoid they know what's happening to them throughout the day Jane Elliots has divided the group by eye color but a bigger division has emerged between the white and black volunteers over what racism is do you think this whole exercise is able to deal with the subtleties of racism in 2009 the racism that isn't in your face that's under the surface that you may not spot you may not notice no the point isn't to be subtle the point is to be brutal and show the brutality of discrimination as it happens not individual to individual but system to person so how people suffer as a result of an unfair syst system for Jane Elliot's final flourish everyone will sit an intelligence test but she's rigged it so the blue eyes will fail browney people move your CH move your chairs back away from these people because if they can see your papers they'll cheat to guarantee this she's already given the Browns half the answers and told them to keep it quiet for the first time the blues offer no resistance hopefully it makes them aware there's no way to win they're in a lose lose situation and they eventually they become resigned to the fact that they have no power and it's just might as well sit here and take it there's nothing I can do about it but one white volunteer in the brown eyes is about to derail the test whose test is this Hazel Hazel's where's your test underneath are you checking it at the same time no why not cuz why should I why do I have to what's the relevance let me make it relevant for you this broad doesn't think she has to check her test we cheated on the test so I don't see why we should be marking it well you gave us the answers you didn't cheat on the test blue eyes so why should I mark it when I know that you've cheated wait just a damn minute cheating you can as a white woman prevent white people from learning that's right for as long as you think you can get away with it has that fool learned anything yet she's preventing other people from learning as she's working hard at it isn't she yeah with the final task thrown off course the division between white and black surfaces once again again here was an opportunity to carry out an exercise and see how people reacted and learned from that but instead what we got was um sabotage effect of the situation clearly I think I think we all understand that this is an exercise issues now we will never know will we this controlled environment is about racism or is about being an Underdog because of something you have no control over sometimes the the system is stacked against you and those in power maybe uh operating in a way to put you in a disadvantaged [Music] position Jane Elliot brings her exercise to a close after 10 hours of struggle has the exercise revealed the reality of life in modern Britain is still very different for white and black people I'm 63 years old and I've seen England changed so much and you know for me it's so difficult because all of a sudden you know we've got this multi-racial Society it wasn't there when I was a kid when I was a teenager even and my kids accept it they're amazing I I'm the one that genuinely has a great difficulty with it but I'm learning and today I think I've learned so much thank you for me I didn't need to ever change my opinions I walked in there as a person who feels very very strongly about any form whatsoever of that kind of behavior demonstrated by whether it's one of my friends one of the children in my class whatever I've always felt passionate about that so I didn't need converting and to be treated as if I was this Pariah who was out there was unacceptable anyway so I wouldn't pay lip service to her and my comments at the end were more how disappointed I was I've been in occasions where people have have you know told a joke and everybody has laughed and nobody realized that that was a racist comment apart from me so you know so you can be in a situation where you you know you know it it goes completely over your head because it doesn't it doesn't affect you so because it doesn't affect you it doesn't exist and that's not the case you just not noticed Jane Elliot has said this will be the last time she does her exercise on this scale having watched the twist and turns all all day I wanted to question her methods and [Music] beliefs Jane thank you very much indeed for putting this exercise on and for letting us watch um but there are a number of things that have sprung to mind uh watching it do do you feel guilty about being white not at all I didn't choose it I can't lose it why would I feel guilty about it do you think there are things white people should feel guilty about all white people should feel guilty about behaviors white behaviors yes but I don't think you you do those things because you're white I think you do those things because you're ignorant so you're conditioned to do these things to be racist absolutely and it works the conditioning is working has worked for a very long time do you think all white people are racist I think if you graduated from high school and you aren't a racist you weren't listening you should have gotten an F in social studies so that's yes all all all white people are racist we are conditioned to the myth of white superiority from the moment of our fact before birth we are conditioned to the myth of white superiority some people who watched these events today will they'll have this interpretation of it and and just just bear me out on it that you met these people you brutalized them to some extent you you you were very hard on them you made them insecure you made them question all sorts of things about themselves did you ever see a lynching obviously not of course you did would you like to let's let let's stick with the tradition of me asking the questions um no let's let's stick with this what I do looks brutal to white people because that isn't something they have to live with all day every day you know the accusation the accusation is you're manipulating them of course I am and that's wrong you're playing with their feelings yes and it's wrong when it's done on a on a grand scale in society it's even more wrong but we do it all the time you've been doing this for more than four decades yeah what what do you think people are going to say the legacy of Jane Elliot is don't care you must care you you've been doing this to change behavior and make the world a better place you must care don't care what people say about me is of little importance to me did I make a difference today did I make a difference today did I make a positive difference today in the area of racism and that's what I want to do explore the themes raised by this or any of the programs featured in race science's last taboo season by visiting Channel 4.com rce and science more from the season on Sunday with science's dirty secret charting the rise and fall of the human zoos Sunday at 7 on [Music] fall [Music]