lovely um so what I actually wanted to start with today is I wanted to use this an opportunity because a lot of whether it's child birth or something else you know there's often an opportunity to redevelop and and kind of redefine what an appropriate practice might be um so I kind of wanted to just spend a bit of time kind of walking you through like what is my practice going to look like or has looked like you know with a a 5-day old baby and what it's going to look like over the coming weeks because I think we often you know plan of like well it be great when I have this amount of time right I can do my 20-minute practice in the morning and I can do my resonance frequency later and like that's all out the window and old me would have really fought for that time and got frustrated and then I missed a session and and it's you know I think a lot of time particularly as people kind of come into breath work and they see wow it's really effective and it's working then it gets locked into like if I don't have this then I'm going to go back to my disregulated self and that's not very effective either right because life happens and so I kind of want to walk you through my you know yeah redefining of like what my practice is looking like and what it's going to look like um and again take the the the chaos of you know a new child coming into the world and and adapt that it could be someone's job changes it could be have to travel a lot through a new role that they're in it could be x y and Zed you know life happens and the greater concept that I want to kind of talk about before we dive into what it looks like is often times we people will feel like I'm going to wait until I have more time to then really like dial in my breath work practice right Grass Is Always Greener it's like everything's a bit crazy right now next month when that thing ends then I'm going to like prioritize myself and it's a little bit of a paradox honestly I've found and this is you know I'm going to weave into this a little bit in terms of like the sales side of thing because often times people are afraid to commit because right now Life's a bit crazy and if what they're expecting is when things calm down then I'll invest in my health then I'll develop my self-care practice then I'll develop my breath work practice and in theory right that sounds like a great idea you're like yeah I'll have more time to attend to it and focus on it and do these things but inevitably when life gets busy again right we've built a practice when things are calm it is very hard to sustain that when things get chaotic again and so I often say to people now is the best time to try and develop a self-care practice a healthcare pract you know like whatever it is that we're talking about whilst things feel really intense is the best time because if you can build it now when things calm down you'll sustain it and when things inevitably pick back up you'll sustain it what I tend to see people doing is okay now that things are good and steady and calm and I've got time and I develop this practice the moment life gets busy again the first thing to go is the practice right because it was developed amidst a you know a situation that was there was time for it and there was space for for it and so I'm using this as an opportunity for myself like what can I do with the literal bare minimum you know instead of me saying you know what in a couple of weeks time when we've found our Rhythm and when things are good that's when I'm going to re you know like find my practice again again you know well then there's going to be a three-month regression and then there's a six-month regression and this is going to happen it's like so the moment those things pick up again the practice is going to disappear and I'll fall back into that attitude of Well when things calm down again and couple of weeks then I'll pick my practice back up and so that very stop start it it's hard to maintain the consistency and it's hard to get a lot of the results because it is chop and change and I do a little bit here and a little bit there and so what I'm kind of going through for me is I really boil it down to like what can I do with the bare minimum amount of time so the two things that I kind of wanted to touch on today in terms of my practice number one is kind of like these little mini power naaps if we want to call them that you know I'm not a good I can't I'm not a napper um but I found that with intentional practice I can get the same thing and so instead of me saying I want to do my breath work in the morning it's I'm going to do my breath work when I get the opportunity and so when I can find a 15minute window what I do is I take five minutes to down regulate and for me what that looks like right is just these slowly extended exhales so I'll start just at my normal breath Rhythm let's say it's 4 seconds in 4 seconds out it's roughly my breath rate right I'll start to go five in five out five in six out five in seven out so I lengthen both a little bit and then I just keep extending the exhale usually after about five minutes I hit a rhythm where it's like okay I'm feeling like I've wound myself down a bit something I always try and point to and this comes back to interception rather than someone saying you know like I do it for x amount of time before I then change like for me it's like I notice for me it's very physical I feel like this like oh you know like whether it was my jaw or my shoulders or my whole body just got got a little bit heavier I know for me it's like okay I've arrived at this checkpoint right prior to that I might not have even been aware that I felt tense that I felt you know a little bit up it's not that like oh I really need to calm myself down but it's all relative right when I spend five minutes breathing slowly I get to this next checkpoint where I'm like okay that's my nervous system saying we've arrived at this next checkpoint when I get there and maybe it's 3 minutes maybe it's 4 minutes maybe it's 6 minutes but roughly 5 minutes is where you know what it takes me to get to that point but I wait until my body says and I notice that like softening of parts that I was not even aware that I was holding but I feel that softening and then what I've been doing is just holding a slow breathing pattern for about five minutes so for me it's about four breaths a minute I do a a six-second inhale 9sec exhale um so that's kind of like my resonance frequency you know if we remember the 40 to 60 ratio um mine comes down to about four breaths a minute that for me is the most restorative thing and for most people right we have to consider CO2 tolerance so making anyone breathe at four breaths a minute doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be super calming for everyone you know they have to have the tolerance to breathe slowly to let the CO2 build up without that being like I want to breathe faster you know if I breathe two breaths a minute that's then going to become challenging and I'm not looking for a challenge right now you know um and so again it's this intentional choice of practice like I'm not doing Wim Hoff style long cyclic hyperventilation long breath holds it's like I've just had an incredibly stressful week right why would I want to add more stress to my system but it's really interesting because when we think of what drives the decisions we make as a nervous system I feel myself wanting to do right I've got 10 15 minutes my got like my initial thought is like let me just like smash out some pretty intense breath work and hit the set button because why right my nervous system is a little bit more familiar with that sympathetic level and it's like let's go back to what we know right and so this desire to do more intense style breath work is there but I recognize is that what I need right do I need to push myself further to try and rebound back to this calm state or can I just navigate towards calm so again old me would just like oh I've got 15 minutes I'm going to do three rounds of 30 breaths and maximum bre breath holds and I'm going to breathe kind of because I know what that feels like right it gives me that little bit of a reset and I feel a little bit kind of like recharged but this concept I don't think I've shared it um with this cohort but when we need a little bit more energy right we can choose to drink a coffee or we can choose to have a nap both of those things theoretically or technically are going to give me a little bit more energy but everyone understands that's a different type of energy right I drink a coffee it's like I'm borrowing energy from the future right I have a nap it's like I'm recharging my batteries right I'm increasing my capacity to have energy and so it's easy to drink a coffee right and that's often and what I'm saying is like when I'm like oh I've got 15 minutes and I feel myself wanting to do like hyperventilation that's like oh I should just drink a coffee right way easier but I also understand where am I borrowing that energy from right I don't have a lot left in you know my resources my tank is it smart for me to start borrowing energy from the future probably not is there a different way I can pick my energy up and that's where the nap comes in right and look sometimes this isn't to knock the the coffee right and I'm using this as a metaphor for breath work but let's say you know I do need a quick pickme up and it's temporary and after you know I'm going to have the opportunity to recharge my batteries maybe I will choose to do a little bit more of an upregulating practice because I need to get through the next half an hour for example right like let's say I had to get on this call really broken night last night you know this is more true than theoretical but it's like okay I could just before I jumped on this call do a little bit of upregulation if I know that once this Call's done I'm actually G to have some downtime then I can you know confidently borrow some energy but if it's like I'm then going from this call to look after my kid and and there's no it's like maybe I should take the nap right down regulation rather than drink the coffee regulation because it's not as good of an idea to borrow energy from the future when there's no clear right restoration of that energy and so although I feel like I want to do lots of uppr Regulation that's kind of like yeah it's the same as like I need to drink a second cup of coffee today most of us I'm painting with broad brush Strokes are more drawn to the uppr regulating drink the coffee then take the nap why well just think of the state of everybody's nervous system right even if you're not disregulated right the world is a pretty fastpaced right go go go like we're all used to the drink the coffee get stuff done go go go do do do and most of us again painting with broad brush Strokes are less comfortable with taking a nap with like dropping in and and centering themselves and grounding themselves and doing nothing and being slow right because it feels like it's the opposite of culture and society and expectations and it's like you know I've for the longest time had an aversion to naps and I thought it was lazy and it's like but now I understand what it does for the brain and it's really you know when you have that additional information it's like oh if I see the nap as a tool to give me more energy to perform right rather than it's like me being lazy or it's self-care it's like no it's me investing time so I can keep performing at a high State then it reframes that really really differently and I found this you know I'm veering off on a couple of tangents here you forgive me but we will get back to the the practice itself but I found with a lot of like the the quote unquote High performers that I work with if I say I want you to go and do right 10 minutes of resonance frequency or slow breathing because you need to d-stress and it's self-care there's like this aversion to that they're like I don't want to work less or do less or you know and I found when I'm like hey I want you to take this 10 minutes and I want you to invest right this time so that you can come back and work harder so that you can come back and do more so that you can come back and perform better it's an investment of your time right and the return of that investment is more output some people would argue that that's not a great you know it's like well we should just teach someone that self-care is important I feel that we should use what works right and I know for a lot of the people that I've spoken to on this callt like if I said to you in the middle of your day right in between seeing patients I want you to to you know take 15 20 minutes and just you know take some time to yourself and relax and it's like you'll feel this like uh no I'd rather not but if I said to you hey if you take 10 or 15 minutes you do this practice you're G to smash the rest of the day right you're going to show up at a higher level like you're like okay 10 minutes investment of my time for a return of the next couple of hours when I'm performing really well that's worth it for me right it's a different payoff and I found just time and time again that reframing it's the same practice we're doing the exact same thing but positioning it as a as a relaxation or a self-care versus an an investment of your time so that you can keep performing seems to learn very differently and I know that's true for me right so kind of coming back to this concept of like drink the coffee or take the nap although right you might feel like I just want to drink the coffee because it's quick it's easy and it's going to give me a little bit of a pep in my step right faster we want to consider the longer term right do I have enough energy in the bank to borrow right and if I don't I should take a nap and by take a nap again I mean down regulate I don't necessarily mean you have to fall asleep and so what my kind of practice has looked like is get myself down into that restorative State we know that respiratory rate is a huge driver of the nervous system so when I bring my breathing rate down to four breaths a minute that's very indicative to my nervous system that there is nothing threatening happening in my environment otherwise I would not be breathing that slow right so what's it do it starts to reprioritize Restoration recuperation regeneration repair right it's moving the energetic resources away from survival right and action and doing and it's allocating those resources to Regeneration if I go and do whim hos style breathing right I'm breathing 60 times a minute then I'm telling my nervous system something may be happening yes I'm going to get some adrenaline yes I'm going to get some cortisol and I'm going to feel really alert but at what expense right I've gone from being in a quote unquote stressful state to telling my nervous system there's more stress right now so dump some more adrenaline into my system you you start to see like the the diminishing returns on that right there's only so many times you can do that before there's just nothing left and so although there might be the feel of I want to do the uppr regulating give myself some energy recognize that that's very much a nervous system driven this is what I think I need you know based on the state that I'm in versus if I can tell my nervous system hey there's nothing threatening even if it's just for the next 15 minutes we're okay to drop the G and move our priority away from action and survival to Restoration then after that 10 or 15 minutes you feel very differently right so I bring my five minutes to get myself down I take five minutes at a really slow breathing rate and then I do I finish with a little bit more of an active breath right where I'll usually at the moment I'm doing kind of like three rounds of about 10 breaths right and those 10 breaths are pretty slow but they're really deep right so it's again it's not a right what does that tell my nervous system right so yes I want to turn up the volume a little bit right but again I'm doing that with intention right I'm not trying to breathe hard fast chest mouth right I don't want that level of push because again it's just going to throw me back into that more simp sythetic state after that three rounds which is a little bit more of like bring the energy back up for me movement you know and I'm just talking like very intuitive like following my body when I'm just kind of like loosening off the rib cage I'm rolling around a little bit like I'm not doing necessarily a specific routine of movement but for me just getting right the rib cage open lengthening my spine stretching you know embodying this posture that says we're up we're confident we're open we're strong right versus again you know if I'm curled I'm laying in bed I'm you know that says bring the energy inwards so I'm thinking of coming out of this where do I want to go all right well I do want to have a little bit more energy and attention right and so I'm I'm letting my body kind of take me in that direction and that's it right that's my 15 minutes and if I get that once a day I'm stoked if I get it twice a day incredible um if I don't get it some days that's okay you know and it's resetting my expectations that again process oriented rather than goal oriented right goal oriented is like I want to do this practice twice a day every day right that's my goal process is I want to do the practice right because I know that it's important for me to help restore my nervous system how many times a day I get well that depends on the day that I'm having but if I can re you know it's like I can find 15 minutes right where both baby and CLA sleep and Grandma's looking off to co it's like okay what am I going to do at this time I want to invest really smartly because I might not have you know much time or another chunk of this time and so for me finding that like bare minimum bring my nervous system down just float in that really slow restorative breathing for as long as I can five six minutes and then give myself a little bit of energy right open up my body bring my breathing upper gear right and then I come out of that and it's like my mini power na you know I didn't need to fall asleep but I do feel like I got a little bit of a recharge and if I can do that as many times as I can I'm happy the second thing that I'm focusing on and this is a little bit more specific right to having a child is this concept of co-regulation but I remember this with col and it's such a a beautiful lesson right like when we think of a a brand new baby right a five-day old baby non-verbal or preverbal right the only information source that baby has is nervous system right Oakley's nervous system is perceiving and scanning the en environment the number one thing that it's responding to is my well cla's nervous system right or whoever's with baby right but it's like the nervous systems around and so when I'm when he's fussing right and I'm trying to get him down or it's late at night whatever it might be if I let the the frustration the tiredness the confusion the whatever creep in of course my nervous system changes and it's like you get this immediate tell it's such a a wonderful thing to watch and if I it's really interesting you see this interplay between what's happening in your mind and what's happening in your nervous system I'll notice right he's responding you know and he's getting more fidgety or more upset and then I'll notice what's in my head it's like oh I want him to go to sleep or I need to be asleep I've got things to do tomorrow or I'm going to be really tired it's like I'm not really focusing on my own regulation I'm focusing on the Gap right what I want to be happening or what's going to happen tomorrow or how tired I'm going to be next week and it's like so that level of thought changes the state of my nervous system which changes the state of his nervous system and the moment I recognize that and I go okay back to present moment just focus on my own breath right and it's usually it's you know it's it's not magic but usually in the space of three to five breaths of me recognizing I was somewhere else and I wasn't regulating and I bring my attention back to my body and I slow my breathing and I slow my heart bit and I relax my body lo and behold you see this immediate reflection in his nervous system and this is a beautiful thing to watch right with an infant but this is true all through life right this is not exclusive to a newborn child of course the the level of information changes because once we begin to use language and we can read more things you know it's like but this is true of you with a client in the room you know both adults their nervous system preverbally non-verbally is reading the state of your system right and if your mind is on five different places at once and you're stressed about something you're worried about the bills next week whatever it's like even if you're not you know you might be saying the right words and doing the right things there's a level of nervous system co-regulation or co- disregulation in this example right that is impossible to override with language you know and so it's that recognition of oh wait I'm in two places at once my mind is on next week yet here I am in my body can I bring my mind back right and can I focus on my breath and that idea of just like coming back and and you tweaking your own nervous system for the impact that it has on someone else is really quite cool um and when you see it happen like and I've got this you know very visual right real time example of it but it's the exact same thing you know you've got a room of people in front of you and you're facilitating breath work you're pacing around the room and you're rushing and you're speaking really fast like notice the energy in the room versus when you you just drop the tone of your voice and you start to speak a little bit slower and you stop pacing and you start to create some space between your words and it's like you just watch everything just like wind down a little bit and it's you know a tricky thing because often times the first few times you facilitate breath work you're excited right and you're nervous and you want it to go well and there's all these expectations and it's like but that can get in the way and it can bring your nervous system up to a level that starts to influence everyone else's nervous system and so a big kind of takeaway from this long ramble is if the only thing that you can control is your nervous system well that's what you should focus on right I can't control my 5-day old baby's nervous system and the more that I want to try the worse it will get right I want him to stop crying I want him to go to like it's you know it's just not possible but in that moment I'm not focusing on myself and so when I redirect my attention and I bring my breathing down and I change my posture lo and behold the outcome that I'm looking for happens right indirectly and so this concept of making sure that you're in charge of your state is super super important not just with an infant right but with anyone you're around um and I can't remember where I heard this example but you know the this idea of like co-regulation energy have a fight with your partner before bed and turn the lights off and tell me you can't feel that tension right it's not language it's not verbal it's like oh you know step onto the Subway or a bus or a train and someone's you know yelled something it's like you don't no one needs to tell you hey someone just made a scene you step onto that Subway and you're like oh wait something just happened you know and then there's the guy yelling or whatever it is it's like so we're reading nervous systems all the time right this idea of neuroception it's such a a fascinating thing and I think the more that we kind of like comprehend what makes my nervous system go into the state that it's in right if someone that says well I'm always just an anxious person well what is the information that your nervous system is perceiving to generate a state of anxiety right that's a very different question because instead of trying to change the outside world it's say change the inside world right I notice that this environment is causing me to change my breathing which is then triggering certain feelings in my body which is then bringing up memories of time this has happened before and then I'm predicting what could go wrong and it's like all of a sudden you might not have even known what that little trigger was and you're off in some spiral right and you're feeling super overwhelmed or anxious and it's like oh yeah I'm just anxious again you know but we missed those three or four steps that like environment caused a change in my physiology which created a feeling in my body which I associated with an emotion which went back to a memory which now I'm predicting the future and it's like all that's happening like unconsciously in a very short space of time and so the more aware I can become of my nervous system State and then the more quickly I can self-regulate the less I'm at the whim of the environment right a victim of circumstance where it's like oh the things out there aren't right which makes me feel anxious that's a really tricky place to be you know because things out there are always not going to be right you know at at certain times so the only thing that you can do in that circumstance is like come back and how can I change the information right my posture and my breathing are the fastest ways to do that and the more that I do that right the more I return to Baseline that's kind of like short this like how long do I spend in that sympathetic Spate when something triggers me and the final kind of piece on this is the cumulative effect of that let's say every time you get on the subway or every time you walk into your office like you feel this anxiety in the past without the self-regulation it's like then you stay in that state you know all day and then next day and then the next day it's like but now with this little bit more self-awareness of wait here's this thing and I don't even have to know what it was that triggered this feeling but let me manually override the system right let me course correct and bring myself back to a state where my nervous system is not perceiving threat right and I might have to do that manually a number of times a day but all of a sudden I'm shortening that duration of time that I'm in that stress response threat detection state which means again coming back to this concept of like allocation of resources I'm just spending more time allocating resources to recovery and repair and restoration instead of survival right survival's not sustainable right long long term when we if the opposite of survival is like thriving and and vitality like we have to be able to access that state more than just fleeting glimpses right we need to be able to spend some time there and so I'll kind of Zoom this back to the practice itself right so for me I've got like the quote unquote formal practice right which is I've got 15 minutes I bring my nervous system down through slower and slower breathing until I reach that point where I just okay I just dropped my guard right for me and I'm not going to say it's the same for everyone but for me it's a very physical thing I just felt my body let go you know and what I I really like to stress is I never go into it saying I feel tense right it's not like all this tension is really obvious but after four or five minutes of breathing are oh I was tense right it was my Baseline and I wasn't really aware that I was tense but the fact that I just felt myself relaxed means right relatively I was a bit tense and so I just breathe slower and slower until I get to that point where my body goes right and then I stay there as long as I can right but in this circumstance I'm giving myself a 15-minute window so that's five or six minutes breathing four breaths a minute and then again thinking of what is the outcome I want for my practice I'm trying to give myself a little bit energy so then I turn the volume up a little bit so that's the formal practice that I'm using the in formal is anytime I'm holding Oakley anytime he's upset anytime I've got this opportunity and not even just with o with cor as well right he's a little bit disregulated right now and so instead of me being like oh why this or what that it's like just focus on me I can't regulate my two and a half year old's nervous system right because I want him to I can just regulate mine but know that that's the biggest tell for his nervous system and so this could be you know appropriate for your partner your kid you know a colleague a client you we we often times want to impact someone else I want to help you calm down I want to help you be less anxious I want to help but that's again I think it's the wrong way to look at it it's like what can I do with my nervous system to help your nervous system get to that state right you can't change anyone else's nervous system they can only do that themselves but by you controlling and and focusing on your own then you indirectly impact the nervous system of the people around you and that can be a real superpower right like we all know people that you go and you spend some time with them and you feel different right good or bad right there's the people that you know it's just like it's a joy to be around and it's uplifting and you spend time with them and it rubs off on you and we've probably also been around the the vampires spend enough time and you just feel drained you know it's not because of the words they said it's not because of the things that it's there it's the state right and we're all pulling each other in different directions and I think the more intentional we get with our own state right even if the intention is indirectly to affect others that's the fastest way we can do that um so I'm going to pause in terms of right self- practice this kind of choosing of a practice related to or not related to new child you know does anyone have questions around kind of like I guess setting and creating you know a certain practice for a certain stage of life or an event that happens um but we can spend a bit of time if there's any questions Katie um I remember you saying about doing an upregulating practice first if like you can't or maybe I don't know my brain's not working right now but I remember you saying something about having like a up regulating practice first and then go down and then come back up almost like a meet me where I am then go down like can you relate that together yeah absolutely so let's say that my newborn was having a real hard time right was super fussy just crying wouldn't settle and then you know I handed him off to CLA and I'm like now I'm going to do breath work if I'm super up right because that was really you know challenging or I'm super tired and I tried to go straight to my for breaths a minute right I tried to jump straight to really slow breathing that's going to feel like someone's put this bag over me that doesn't quite fit you know and I want everyone let me just quickly I'm just going to try and connect my whiteboard I brought the trusty whiteboard out today we'll see if it works all right let's see can everyone see the Whiteboard cool so if we think right if this is my nervous system what I want everyone to recognize that that my breathing will always reflect the state that I'm in right so let's say here I'm asleep my breathing is naturally going to be super slow and rhythmical right so it's going to be this really nice steady breathing if I'm having a panic attack my breathing is going to reflect that what we're talking about is if I'm a little bit disregulated you know I'm high on this state chart in terms of my nervous system but I try and breathe like I'm down here really slow right this Gap is a problem because yes breathing is informing the nervous system but so is everything else and if I've gone from like this super heightened State and now I'm breathing three breaths a minute that Gap is just too big right so this idea of kind of meeting yourself where you at let's say I walked away and i' just you know everything was a little bit chaotic and I wouldn't want to jump straight to the slow breathing practice right I would want to kind of meet myself where I'm at I'm not going to breathe like I'm having a panic attack but my breath is probably going to need to be a little bit faster it's going to need to have a little bit more intention and so for most situations what I like to do for this example is just like one or two rounds of like Tomo breathing right which is the five breath so if I take a big breath fifth breath in I hold I let it go and I soften so that like five big breaths is more sympathetic right because it's a bit faster there's a bit more volume you know I'm breathing with some intention that's very different to trying to breathe four breaths a minute and so I might do that first so that I'm kind of now in communication with my nervous system I've manually changed my breathing for the impact that it's going to have on my nervous system and then we're kind of working with each other it's like my breathing brings my nervous system down now my nervous system's down I can breathe a bit slower my nervous syst system comes down I can breathe a bit slower my nervous system comes down right I'm kind of stepping the nervous system down but if I went from Super heightened to really slow that's going to feel really uncomfortable right it's going to feel like no it doesn't fit right and I I use that language very intentionally like it doesn't fit this breathing pattern of four breaths a minute doesn't fit with the height and state of arousal that I'm in and so we need to be kind of like not cautious is the wrong word but again more intentional with this where am I at right if I'm just like a little you know a little tired or like yes I can jump straight into the slow breathing but if I've just come out of 45 minutes of my child screaming and I'm super disregulated then I need to kind of think of this like stepping stone where it's like let me control my breath is the first thing so let's say my child's screaming I'm probably not doing breath control right I'm just like weathering the storm first thing want to do is I do the breathing but I'm going to breathe in a way that's closer to where my breathing was at right so whether that's the speed or the intensity but the first thing is like now I'm doing it even though it's not this like super calm breath I'm at least in control of it and then over the course of the next minute or two my nervous system is going to start responding to my breathing and so I can breathe a bit slower my nervous system comes down breathe a bit slower nervous system comes down and yeah over the course of the minute a couple of minutes I might get down to this really slow pattern of breath because I've brought my state down does that make sense yeah yeah that's that's what I meant thanks and sometimes it can just be a breath right where it's like you know it's like now I'm stepping into the driver's seat right but a problem that a lot of people encounter is oh I'm really disregulated breathe like I'm really calm you know I'm going to jump into my resonance frequency but you're not really calm you're disregulated so it's instead of like again trying to just force my nervous system into this state it's like Meet myself where I'm at right maybe I do need to take a couple of those big breaths right but at least I'm doing them versus them just happening and then I can extend my exhale slightly I can go from mouth to nose oh I can start bringing it from the chest down to the belly and over that that couple of minutes now my resonance frequency is going to feel comfortable right and it's going to feel appropriate because I've brought the nervous system down so that six breaths a minute feels appropriate but again take someone having a panic attack and they're breathing 50 breaths a minute and if you ask them to breathe in for 5 seconds and breathe out for 5 seconds Watch What Happens right they will Panic will go up they will not feel calm because that five breaths a minute does not fit the state that they're in right and so we need to slowly approach that point where it's like now it feels appropriate to breathe five breaths a minute because I slowly brought my nervous system down and often this is such a good point because I think a lot of times when people have this like oh breath work doesn't work for me it's because they're trying to use a pattern of breath that doesn't fit the state that they're in right I'm on the verge of a panic attack and someone told me to breathe super slowly and they did two or three breaths and they went I'm going to pop right like that's what that's what it feels like it's like you know okay you breathe way too slowly for the state that you're currently in it's not that breathing didn't work it's that you chose you know that pattern or that slowness of breath didn't work for the state of arousal that you're in same thing right let's flip this equation you're you know super super calm like you're trying to fall asleep and then you breathe 50 breaths a minute it's going to feel really like wait you know like almost immediately you'll you'll Veer off and you'll start breathing slowly again you'll Veer off it's like it's not an appropriate breathing pattern for the state that you're in right and so the the first kind of I guess takeaway from this is this idea of that my breathing both reflects and affects the state of my nervous system right the Reflection Point is really important so if I'm super anxious I'm super in a state of high arousal my breathing is going to reflect that and if I do a pattern of breath that's wildly different it's not going to fit right I need to make it slightly different you know slightly slower and then my nervous system will come down and then I change it a bit more change a bit more change a bit more until it's like yes now I can breathe really slowly and it does feel calming but it's because I got my nervous system there rather than I forced it into submission and whenever someone feels like oh slow breathing doesn't make me feel calm well it's usually because they're breathing too slow for the state that they're in right so rather than jumping straight to six breaths a minute and right now they're breathing 15 times a minute it's like let's go to 12 then let's go to 10 then let's go to 8 and then let's go to six and eventually when you get to six it's like yeah this feels good right because you slowly brought your nervous system along for the ride please hi thank you so much um I had a question to tack on to your explanation just now um a couple weeks ago there is a family member that was panicking and crying in profusely and in order to help her come down I just recommended to breathe through her nose because she does do a lot of mouth breathing and I just wanted to ask if that was an appropriate comment or Direction given everything that you just said because I I don't think that she was in a place to actually dive into an actual practice but just wanted to give her a little snack to chew on and calm herself down in that moment and stop crying yeah exactly right and so you've chosen the exact right thing right so if she's going from you know to nose breathing right even if she like she didn't need to slow it down vastly right but just mouth to nose is going to have an impact right she might find after 30 seconds of breathing through the nose she can then slow down and then she does start to regulate her emotional state but if you went to hey breathe in for five 5 seconds and breathe out for 5 seconds while she was crying what's going to happen is you know and it's just like that slowness of breath isn't appropriate right because that's not the state that she's in she's in a heightened emotional state she's upset she's crying and so like what's the slight change M mouth to nose right that's the the first kind of like inroads now you might find that actually she her breathing pattern's getting a bit more regular or her posture is changing or she's able to converse with you right she's come from really heightened to a little bit less heightened now she might be more receptive to you saying okay so now what I want you to do is just extend your exhale a little bit and that's it right but then watching her do that for 30 seconds again you might notice her face just softened okay she stopped crying now what I want you to do is breathe in for four seconds and out for six seconds like so each time like the next thing is just slightly different you know and you're waiting for the response of her nervous system is responding to that slight change that she made mouth to nose right ex 4C exhale to 5sec Exhale whatever it might be right a rhythmically to now it's a little bit more rhythmic and so those tiny little changes over the course of five minutes you'll able to kind of help her navigate towards like okay I'm back to a more grounded State you know and now I'm more receptive to information that if you try to give someone all right breathe in for 4 seconds pause for two and then breathe out for 6 seconds and you know it's like when we're in that heightened state of arousal emotional or autonomic right nervous system where it's just an emotional it's like that part of our brain that's listening to instructions isn't really online you know so you giving complex instructions it's like talking to a three-year-old that's having a tantrum you know it's like the logic reasoning part of their brain is not there you know so you can in instruct all you like but until that child regulates or that person gets to a state where they're receptive the instructions don't really matter you know and so that's why keeping it super simple of like hey just try breathing through your nose that's a very simple instruction doesn't require any complex knowhow but it's immediately going to impact the nervous system right and if you're observing once there's a point of like okay it seemed like that worked what's the next thing we could do hey I want you just to focus on extending your exhale just 10% right don't even counter anything just like make it slightly slower you know hey I'm noticing that as you're breathing your shoulders are with this next couple of breaths just see if you can feel your breath come down to your belly just place your hands on your belly and see what happens right these tiny little changes right when we you know you as the practitioner understanding okay nasal diaphragmatic slow rhythmical like we know what that does so it's like how can I get someone there step by step right I can go from mouth to nose I can then go from chest to belly I can then go from Fast to slow none of this is a breath work practice right you're just helping her inform her nervous system right through these little incremental changes thank you that was really helpful amazing um anybody else got questions I was actually going to ask the same question as felce not the specific scenario but um I had a mom come to me that her second grader was having you know not daily panic attacks but you know weekly and I was trying to give her some instruction so that that's super helpful and the same thing you know in that example if you're ever with someone that's having a panic attack you know I again let me I'm G to just bring the Whiteboard back up because I I approach this very differently to most ways I've been told about helping someone with a panic attack um so let's say someone is having a panic attack again I'm just going to remember right that the state like if we think of nervous system on this side and breathing on this side like someone's having this really heightened state if their breath pattern is like this right let's say they're breathing 60 times a minute and it's very erratic in or amidst or during a panic attack this breath is happening right it's not they're not controlling it it it's happening to to them no one's breathing like that right it is a reflection of the state of their nervous system what I found well this is not what I found right this is neuroanatomy when breathing is happening to US versus when we are doing it very different part of the brain right when breathing is happening to us it's very like amygdala brain stem right like it's that kind of Primal survival part of the brain but when I do the breathing even if this is where it gets super interesting even if I'm doing the exact same pattern of breathing so let's say this is an unconscious right it's happening to me but in that moment I ask someone hey I want you to do the breathing even if they do the exact same breath 60 breaths a minute but now they're instead of it they're right they're doing it immediately we see like they've done this when they've got you know internal brain skin like where they're doing operations on epileptics and stuff it's like this simple change from happening to you to controlled by you right different neural network I'm in control even if the breathing pattern is identical right it's still fast it's still with my chest it's still with my mouth the fact that I'm now the one doing it changes What's called the locus of control right is it happening to me from some scary thing in the outside world or is it happening by me because I'm in control right the motor cortex in the brain it's like now that I'm doing the breathing I'm manually doing it I'm literally in control of that that's very different right one of the big things that scares most people is the lack of control I can't control what's happening what if this happens the uncertainty right so I've found when I'm with someone that's having a panic attack I don't tell them to breathe slowly I don't tell them to do a breath work practice I don't all I encourage them to do is hey I want you to try and do the breathing and what I'll do this is a nice little hack is they say I want you to copy me and what I do is I copy them right so I'll go right and now they're mirroring right so they're watching me and I'm watching them and so all of a sudden we haven't made them breathe any slower because remember this is where they're at right they're super heightened I'm not trying to be like follow me right because that's all the way down here that is not where they're at they're very close to panic they're in this heightened state so we want the breathing to reflect that we just want to take control of it once they're in control so their breaths gone from happening to them to Happening by them now they can start to go okay what if we went a little bit slower right and and again if I'm the one that's doing it I don't tell them this I just start to slow down right and they're following and if they're following it's looking okay maybe I now close my mouth right and just slowly slowly slowly slowly I'm lengthening or I'm short you know I'm slowing the breath down very incremental and what this is doing is this right like if this is the nervous system State very slowly we're coming down right but if again that person that's having a panic attack I'm like breathe in for five seconds they'll just go up like it's going to make them feel more panicked because the breath pattern doesn't fit the state that they're in and so we always want to this is such a great question that stemmed from you know what you said Katie but like we always want to kind of meet someone where they're at if someone's having a panic attack it's not appropriate to breathe six times a minute it's just not you know that's too big of a difference between where they're at and where they're trying to get to but going from uncontrolled to controlled step one right and then maybe mouth to nose step two and then 60 breaths a minute to 50 breaths a minute and then to 40 and then to 30 and then you know it's like none of that needs to be instructional per se hey I want you now to breathe 40 times a minute they're like what you know but if they're mirroring you and you start to just breathe a little bit slower and they're going to reflect that right and you walk them down away from that heightened State towards that regulated State um but again like most people that are on the verge of a panic attack get told hey take a deep breath or breathe slowly or just relax your breathing down they're not in a relaxed State you know like they're in a really heightened State and so we do want to kind of like use breath where they're at and then slowly start to change the breath but I found that you know go from it happening to you do it happening by you is the step that a lot of people miss right don't try and change the breathing pattern per se but make sure that you're the one doing it okay instead of it happening because of new environment because of the situation because of whatever is going on just you do it and it's really interesting when people take control of their breath in that moment right we go from amydala to like the the neocortex right the newer part of the brain now I'm in control of my body and it's like okay what does that mean oh well maybe whatever's happening out there isn't as dangerous or isn't as threatening because I'm starting to change the information hopefully that makes sense um anybody else got questions queries on that kind of topic or theme I do actually um this feels like really great information if you're with somebody is there anything that you suggest for like somebody that has them I guess like how would you explain that to somebody that like maybe would be by themselves honestly exactly the same thing just the same okay in that moment are you doing the breathing or is it happening to you like and and it's one of these I I'm remembering like all these conversations I have with clients and I don't work as much with panic attacks at the moment but I did have a stretch right and I would say when you feel the panic attack coming on the only thing I want you to ask yourself is am I the one doing the breathing or is it happening to me and even just that question right forces this self-reflection it forces this self-awareness am I the one doing the breathing you know it's like it's a very different we haven't told them to control their breath we haven't told them to do anything just ask yourself this question are you doing the breathing or is it happening to you and nine times out of 10 someone that's in a heightened state of anxiety or Panic will tell you it's happening to me right or whatever is this shallow chest breathing right like when someone's super anxious they're not choosing to breathe like that it's a reflection of the state they're in but they don't notice that you know so this question that comes up because we said hey the next time you feel your anxiety or your panic I want you to ask yourself this question right so we've planted that seed there then they're feeling really anxious and they go am I the one doing the breathing no I'm not you know I'm thinking about the thing that's happening tomorrow and that's making me feel anxious I'm not doing the breathing it's happening to me so step number two do the breathing right don't let it keep happening to you take control of it and I tell them copy the breath pattern that was happening right so it's again we're not trying to make this huge shift in their breathing we just want to go from uncontrolled to controlled right and then once you're controlling the breath now see if you can slow it down slightly right or go from your mouth to your nose or go from your chest to your belly again I I wouldn't say to someone do all of those things because it's a little too instructional you want them to have this kind of like clear course of action it's like oh I'm panicked number one am I doing the breathing no I'm not okay so now let me take control of my breathing now that I'm in control of my breathing the one thing that Katie told me to do was make sure I can go from my mouth to my nose and then try and slow it down over time that's very different to just like control your Panic you know because you the nervous system needs to express what it's expressing right and and just like forcing someone into a calm State I don't know if that's necessarily the solution because you know there's this is coming out from the nervous system for a reason and just jamming it back into the box um doesn't necessarily work um but same thing even if I'm not there it's like when this is happening I just want you to ask yourself am I the one doing the breathing or is it happening to me and then they recognize it's happening to me okay we'll take control of it you know but I tell people copy what breath pattern is already happening right so now it's just that the same thing's happening you're at the same level of arousal but you're in control of it it's not an external thing happening to you and that's this very Tipping Point in terms of what part of the brain is driving our feelings in our behaviors we went from uncontrolled to controlled right from unconscious to conscious and then it can just be slowly you know start to make your breath slower or start to drop it lower in your body um and I mean the final piece of this is Trust and I I would often say to my panic attack clients I'm like have you ever had a panic attack that never stopped they're like no you know they always end I'm like okay remember that right like but when they're happening it feels like it's never going to end you know like anyone that's had a panic attack it feels like impending doom and it's not going to end you know but if you get them to reflect when they're in a a non- panic attack State hey have any of your panic attacks ever not ended they're like no they always end great remember that right so don't let your breathing be happening you control it and remind yourself this is going to pass right like I yeah maybe I can speed up it's you know transition back to calm but I know it is going to end and so that you know just piece of information that we've kind of planted that seed whilst they're in a you know non- Panic State hopefully comes back when they're in a panic State um Trace in terms of flying yes I've actually had quite a few people the biggest thing that I've found with fear of flying is anticipatory ventilation right they worked up the week before the flight it's not like I got on the flight and had a panic attack they''re like dreading that flight for a week or a month right and so how much of the disregulation that occurs for the week leading up to the flight is responsible for the panic attack on the flight and so them having that oh yeah it's not that you know I just got on the flight and had a panic attack which is what they think right it's like my panic attack happens on the plane but that's because they're not aware of how they're breathing you know they lack breath awareness they're three days before they're actually hyperventilating you know not clinically like but they are breathing faster than they usually are because they're thinking about the flight and they're wondering if they're going to have a panic attack and that changes their breathing and that increase you know it's like so there's a lot of this like lead up and so whenever someone says you know I have panic attacks on flight I'm like right well when you've got an upcoming flight you need to be doing the work the week leading up to it right whenever you think of that flight control your breathing right and try not to you know go down the what if it's just like oh I'm thinking about the flight stop thinking about it come back to controlling your breath sounds easy you know it's harder in practice than it is when I explain it like that but it's hard to think of something and control your breath at the same time it's one or the other you know they'll often recognize right oh I'm stuck worrying about the flight on Friday now's my opportunity to oh I got to do my breathing control right so I start to focus on my breath and I start to slow down instead of telling them don't think of the flight right it's focus on your breathing instead right so oh I'm thinking of the flight allows them to get into that moment of recognition but again the worst thing you do is like hey I want you to to not think about it what does anyone do think about it more right give them something to think about rather than tell them what not to think about right so what to think about is like what is what is happening to your breathing right now okay I'm holding my breath and that's honestly one of the most most common things is like my mind starts to you know get in front of me I'm thinking about the flight and whether I'm going to have a panic attack and I'm holding my breath the whole time I think about it I'm anchoring a disregulated state to this futur scenario that's going to happen and every time I do that I think about the flight I'm holding my breath and I'm getting kind of anxious about it so it's like I'm strengthening that Association time and time and time and time again until I get to the flight and my nervous system is like oh wait what did you want me to do you wanted me to have a panic attack because that's what you practiced every time you thought about sitting in this chair for the last week right right you've anchored the disregulated physiology to this scenario that you're in there's a chair in front of me I'm stuck on this plane there's a little aisle like you've played out this scenario a dozen times which ends in you having a panic attack all that's left to happen is your nervous system goes all right let's play that program you practiced um it's such an interesting thing right we do it all the time but we don't we're often not aware that we're doing it you know the doctor's appointment I have next week and it's like what's going to come back with the blood test that I had you know is it still in perion or is it and I'm in that moment right the fear of the future outcome is disregulated me right now in the present moment right and my nervous system is learning what what state is appropriate for this scenario so next time I'm sitting in the doctor's clinic and I've practiced feeling really stressed my nervous system is just going to press play and this is a big part of what's the part of the brain called the reticular activating system which is kind of like it's like what do you want me to notice you know and the example that often gets given is like let's say you're going to buy a a pink Ferrari you know when you make that decision you'll see them everywhere you know because you've asked your reticular activating system scan the environment for this piece of information right and we do that all the time and so if I'm telling my nervous system hey when we're on that fly this is how we should be feeling which is really stressed and anxious and worried we're going to have a panic attack when we get on the flight my reticular activating systems like oh here we are you know here's this scenario this situation this environment what was the estate that tied to it all right well I'd been holding my breath every time I think about it and visualized it okay cue that physiology and then yeah lo and behold I get a bit stressed or I get a bit anxious or I have a panic attack and so it's it's really the lead up I find that is a missing piece panic attacks rarely I mean I would almost just go out and say they don't happen out of the blue right there a lead up whether someone's aware of or not that's really really important and that lead up can be weeks right it's not like I'm just talking about the hour before the flying scenario the doctor scenario like if that person's like worried all week yeah well you know there's the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back right getting on the Fly is the straw that breaks the camel's back right because of the amount of disregulation or disordered physiology for the week leading up to it it doesn't take much to push someone over the edge and now they have a panic attack um so the big takeaway of that is breath awareness right is like when you're thinking about future scenario whether it's flying whether it's a doctor whether it's the presentation you have to do at work what are you doing right now with your physiology with your posture with your breathing because that's the thing you can control so now you can start to tie right so let's kind of take this I guess more of the Practical the tool that we could use this person's thinking about their flight they notice I'm holding my breath or I'm breathing really shallow I'm worried about having a panic right I now control my breathing and I bring my breath to let's just say they can get to Resonance frequency or you've just given them a slow breathing pattern coherence breathing whatever it might be right now they're breathing in this way that feels really calm right they soften their shoulders their jaw so they create a new physiological state right one that reflects slow breathing relaxed posture physical tension you know reduced physical tension and they keep thinking about the flight right so it's like now I'm thinking about this future scenario whilst I am creating a positive physiological Association then that's what my reticular activating system is going to look for right it's like oh here's this scenario what did we practice we practice slow rhythmical breathing relaxed posture no physical tension and so we start to just like the same you know mechanism that's at play regardless we just make it intentional you know like this is what my nervous system does it tries to predict the future based on past experience and it uses cues of the environment to say oh yeah now time for this oh yeah now time for that right and so we can be a little bit more intentional with like what is what is my nervous system going to cue right what is it going to like bring up when I hit this environmental cue right when I sit on that chair on the plane what have I practiced feeling and the unintentional the unconscious of someone that's scared of flying is they've practiced anxiety for a week right and so they sit in the chair and they go bang here's my anxiety it just happened out of the blue I had a panic attack again no it didn't you practi this state many many times this was just oh my nervous system hits play right and so instead of don't think of the flight right it's like when you catch yourself thinking of the flight change your physiology to a positive state right and then allow yourself to think of the flight and you are associating or connecting the flight the environment with this state that you're generating and so that's where we start to take it away from just like don't think about the thing or worry about the or to when you do change what you're associating it with right so instead of holding your breath and breathing shallow and worried am I going to have a panic attack it's like I think of the flight and I regulate and I create a calm state so that when I'm on the flight I have this positive cue I did I had this a client not so long ago that was really like I think most people don't like public speaking she had to present for 12 weeks in you know was like a group of 10 or 15 people she was just when we got on the first set of calls and she's like I have this thing coming up literally talking about it you could just watch her just like like I'm just gonna flunk and it's gonna be terrible and it's gonna be it's like okay so what do we want to practice because right now you're practicing a panic attack you know and you're doing a really good job of it and so we use Simple cues right so first thing is I got her to practice what state did she want to feel right and it was this feeling of calm confidence is what she chose so this is where we kind of weave in I'm just going to sit with this for a minute right we can weave in kind of like the emotional self-regulation practices so for her I was like when was the time that you felt calm and confident right and for her it was when she got her like bachelor degree or whatever it was right she graduated thing this thing that she didn't think she'd be able to do and she got her certificate and she felt really confident and really calm right so that was what she came up with when I saidh was the time you felt this before that so now what we did is like we used the you know attention breathing and then emotion so using this calm confidence that I felt before let's bring that state up in the body so here's the practice right so she's getting herself to this calm confident State now what's a visual cue we can use so for her I was like are you using a slideshow she's like yes okay I'm like what's the first slide what's your like title slide she like all right you do you know what it looks like yes I've done the slide so so for her I was like what room is it going to be in at work do you know where you're going to be presenting do you know what the room's going to look like she like yeah I've been to lots of presentations there I know where the chairs are like perfect it's even better when someone's really familiar so what we did right is generate the state so using attention breathing right and then this emotion of calm and confidence and then start to visualize right I mean I walk up the middle there's the chairs on either side I can see my slideshow on the projector there right so we're giving her that Q she's practicing this calm confidence state with this environmental cue and then I got her to choose a slide that was like halfway through you know so it was a slide on addiction or substance abuse I think was the topic and so I was like what do you want to feel when you hit that slide calm and confident okay so generate that state in your body see yourself looking at the group of people you're presenting to you turn to the slideshow and you see this slide what do you want to feel right and then we did it for the end right how do you want to feel once you finished this presentation calm and confident right so like the final slide walking back to your chair or sitting down I'm like is uh you know like what does this look like so he really brought the details in and she fed back to me she was like Midway through the presentation like hit that slide and I just felt this like wave come over me right and that's the process you know it's like that feels a little bit like magic you know but she practiced that feeling with that slide dozens of times and so it was just a case of when her nervous system saw that cue here's that slide oh wait what did we practice bang calm and confident and she's like I got through it it was just a breeze and at the end same thing happened I sat in my chair what I practiced visualizing and then I felt this like confidence in my body and I felt really calm and so the more that you can kind of use like what is it going to look like right I had a client not so long ago talking about fear of flying it was less like I have a panic attack on a flight that she was flying to Australia from the US 14 15 hour flight and she's like every time I've done it in the past you know at hour 10 I start to get really like anxious like uh I've got four more hours I'm really tired I can't get off this plane I start to get really worked up and I just like drains my energy so again this is what she's practicing she's already practicing hitting hour 10 and then getting all fidgety and uncomfortable so we went through the exact same process right let's just continue with calm and confident right so I got her I'm like do you know what seat you're sitting in she's like yeah 37f like okay so I want you to visualize walking down the aisle of the plane seeing 37f putting your bag up right whilst we practice this feeling right when you look I was like do you look on your watch or do you look at that little like screen that says like duration of flight or remaining time she like I look at that little flight tracker like okay so you know what it looks like who are you flying with American Airline it's like we can bring in all these details to make it as real as possible right where she's like at hour 10 and she checks this thing and she sees she's got four hours to go calm and confident right because that's what she's practiced instead of anxious apprehensive figy you know and she told me like a few times like I'm really worried about this flight this is what happened in the past I really don't want to do this like I'm going into this in a worse State than in the past so what's going to happen I'm like hey you're practicing all these things so what can we practice instead and that you know intentional use of Emotional Self generation or coherence right so like do you want to feel when's the time you felt that in the past bring those two things together so you can reliably create this state and then start to Anchor it to this future scenario right when you sit in your chair when you're in the waiting room at the doctor when you're behind the wheel of the car right whatever it is for each individual that provokes their anxiety they can practice having a different response right and they just need they're already practicing having an anxious response right just unconsciously we just want to help them start having practicing a regulated response right and the more they do that the reticular activating system right again it's like here we are sitting behind the wheel oh I've practice feeling really calm and so that's what starts to change people's what we call automatic responses they're not that automatic they're predetermined and practiced over and over and over again but it's just typically done unconsciously and so we get to kind of like infiltrate that and start to replace you know the outcome with something that's a little bit more constructive um and I found that really helpful for future anxiety I'm worried about X I'm worried about y I don't want this to happen it's like well let's start practicing what you do want to happen instead of what you don't want to happen and that's like you know there's examples of that everywhere um and again all of if all of you reflect for a moment on times you do this yourself you know the first class you had to teach or the first client you worked with and you inherently right this is a protective thing in your brain you practice what could go wrong what if I forget what to say what if they don't turn on what if there's only one person and I thought there was going to be 10 people what if the music doesn't work you know it's like all these things is like we're practicing this quote unquote negative outcome because it's protective right if you're aware of what could go wrong then hopefully you're able to prevent it from happening but we fail to recognize that the present moment physiological state is what we're practicing so a lot of people will register oh I changed my thinking about it but if they hold their breath every time they think about it they anchoring their physiology and so that's where this gets a little bit different as to like well let's change your physiology and then keep anchoring it right anchor the positive physiology um and just to give one more very a little bit of a tangental example of this but I practiced this for a really long time that I would have right it happened when I would see either like a really gorgeous sunset I went and saw like one of my favorite bands that played like my favorite song and there was another thing but I would get the same we've all had this feeling like the little bit of a you know the the shiver or the the the running down the spine and just feel this like feeling of elation and so I'd had that feeling enough times and my hypothesis was like I wonder if I can create that response through a very specific breath and so every time I was in a situation that that thing happened I'm watching this incredible Sunset I would take this really specific breath right where I'd breathe in a certain way and I'd only breathe this way when I was having this feeling and so this was kind of a long-term thing like I did this over a couple of months oh I'm seeing this band or I'm seeing music or I'm catching up with someone I haven't seen for a long time and I'm feeling that just like really good feeling in my body and I would take that breath I could get to a point where I could just take that breath and then I would just get these ripples down my back and I would just feel like elated it's like whoa that's pretty cool right like it took months you know I'm not I'm not going to say like I just decided I can take this breath and its magic but I anchored that breath to that state right that state was created from my environment I was with someone I heard something I saw something whatever it was but when that was happening I anchored a breath to it right I took this really specific breath eventually I could take the breath create the response Pavlov's dog right like this pavlovian response if anyone's like what the hell are you talking about right Pavlov is the scientist ring the bell feed the dog ring the bell feed the dog ring the bell feed the dog eventually he could ring a bell and the dog would start salivating because it had Associated the ringing of the bell with being fed food this is no different right like what can we help our nervous system associate whether it's a breath pattern whether it's a posture right but if I'm a little bit more intentional about that I can create these beautiful responses right where I can just take this one breath and create this feeling of bliss in my body that's pretty cool you know and that's not what I would necessarily encourage anyone to teach you know people first encountering breath work like that's more of a I don't I really don't like the term like an advance practice um because I think it sets up this strange hierarchy but it's like you have to have a really good understanding of your breath and of your state to be able to start changing those responses but it's very much possible by all of us and again it's already something you do right if I ask you to practice this like anxious kind of like breathe in and hold it in your chest like if you noticed every time that you're feeling anxious what breath pattern you do how you breathe when you're anxious if you just did that breathing pattern you will start to feel anxious even independent of the environment that makes you feel anxious so this isn't like you're kind of creating some new thing it's like you already do this it's just often unintentional and unconscious and so the more that I can actually decide what's the response that I want to have with this breath pattern or with this posture then I can get a little bit more I I can have a little bit more influence over the system itself any questions well does that make sense to everyone Campbell I just um wanted to respond with like a couple anecdotal examples of when I've used this in my life as well um and I think it's really interesting that like there's sort of in my brain there's like an active lens and a passive lens to like see this practice through and the the passive lens is like unawareness of just knowing when something is causing a shift in you um and recently that's been like something as little as like when my boss when I see my boss's name come up on my phone like when she calls me or sends me a slack I get this like crazy um not good tickle in my chest uh and I stopped breathing and before recently this would just happen and then it would kind of set my day in a weird place even subconsciously um and I just got tired of like responding to just this name on my phone in a way that was really stressing me out and so I sort of became aware of that and then like before I would respond or answer the automatic response I haven't practiced it enough so where I automatically respond in a way where I don't feel that tickle yet but I'm aware of it and I'm trying to now recreate like a breath pattern that sets me in a calmer mode before interacting with her or responding with her um and then so that's one example which I feel like um some of you guys could probably empathize with another example that I feel like is a little bit more like of an active way of approaching this is um similar to like what you've been doing with sunsets um I've been trying to like recreate a breath pattern while racing right so like when I'm racing it's a struggle and it's it's physical um exertion and I'm feeling like the essence of like racing is suffering so I I went on one run that was so beautiful my dad was biking behind me this was a training run and I just in that moment I was like I this is so everything about this feels good in my body everything about this run feels good from the light through the trees to my calm breathing to like the crisp air and so I was trying to build breath pattern around that experience so that I can then recreate it on race day and translate it into moments that felt really challenging yeah um so two two examples that I feel like you know I think real life examples are like have always helped me understand so much um so I just wanted to share those and it's it's it's such a common I'm sure everyone can relate to seeing your boss's name or seeing the person right like and I as you explained that I was just thinking of a couple of clients that one in particular was it was looking for like they were purchasing another location or something and they just had all this back and forth and it was all negative right with the bank and the loan she's like every time I would just see that I had an email from the bank I would literally like go into this state and I wouldn't open the email and it's like nine times out of 10 it was just like hey we got the documents you know but she let it build up into this thing right that it's like it's probably them declining my loan right so I don't want to open it because it's too scary she said it would just like mess up her entire day and then eventually she's like all right I'm going to open the email it's like documents received like you know it's like so that again we've developed an association and what you're doing of starting with awareness right it's observing the response that you have rather than trying to you know suppress the response you have we have to first start with that observation side of things but the second thing which I am more fascinated by and what you're finding with the breath patent we are so much more familiar with quote unquote negative States right if I and I do this all the time with my clients I'm like can you describe to me anxiety and they're like bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang like just this detailed description of anxiety I'm like can you describe to me calm and all they can do is describe to me the absence of anxiety they're like my heart's not racing my shoulders aren't tight my jaw isn't clenched I'm like you're not describing calm you're describing the absence of your anxiety that's two different things and so so often because right anxiety is a more survival base right it's important that we are aware of what's going on when we're feeling anxious because I need that information for the future but it's a Pity because when you're experiencing a really great state we often don't you know I like to think of it a little bit like a sponge like absorb all the sensory information right whilst you're on that run the temperature of the air my dad's behind me my breathing's really Steady My foot strikes right like all those things you're absorbing and you're making it far easier for your nervous system to conjure up that state again and so I ask people all the time it's like when you are having a good day or a good moment or you're feeling especially you know it's like what is it that you're actually feeling like zoom in and actually identify what it is instead of it's like I'm not I'm just not feeling anxious like well what are you feeling is it an expansiveness in your body is it a slowness of your breath is it a you know people aren't really good at describing the good and so they need to practice that and often it's just an encouragement of like hey when you do have that really good day or you wake up less anxious than usual what is it that you're actually feeling the better you get at describing that the more you're able to recreate it and so it's it's just such a good takeaway for people as to like yeah soak up the good moments so that it's easier for you to draw them right because you already do that for the quote unquote bad moments right like you're hyper aware of everything whilst you're feeling anxious but you could also be hyper aware of what you're feeling when you're feeling really really calm or really really grateful or really really excited but we just don't tend to do that automatically because that's not the the network like that's not the bias of the brain and so I mean what Christine is talking about on that run is is this like sensory you know like what are all the components for me to feel in flow right now right and the more that I can zoom in on them the more I'm able to recreate that flow state it it comes back a little bit to Ritual as well you ask most high performers right like let's say it's someone that's playing basketball like they tie their shoe a certain way and they pull that you know there's this sock and then this shoe and then I tie and then this it's like this ritual and there's very intentional behind that like why does certain Fighters walk out to a fight song because that song Right creates the state that they want to be in for this fight like it's not random you know they have anchored their physiology to this CU this Q being this song right or the movement they're doing why are they bouncing on their toes a certain way why are they Shadow Boxing it's like we see it everywhere the basketball player that's about to shoot like he'll spin the ball he'll bounce it three times he'll put it to one hit right it's like watch him every single time it's the exact same thing you know it's a ritual of how do I create the optimal state for performance we see it in this high level of like you know sports but that can just be a day-to-day performance thing you know if I create those cues intentionally I can create the state and I have much more influence over how I'm feeling because I can just cue up those things right I can do the breath pattern I can do the postural adjustment I can do the visualization to create the state that I'm looking for rather than just hoping right which is what a lot of people do I hope I have a better day today I hope I'm less anxious you know it's like hoping is good but you could also get far more practical and like actions some stuff so hopefully that makes sense but thanks for that input Christina um does anybody have any other questions queries I have a question that does not relate to anything that you just said if that's okay that's absolutely fine um I am helping someone with their breath right now and they ideally would want to sit just in a straight posture seated pose with their legs cross for 20 to 30 minutes so that they can meditate they can do breath work but after about two or 3 minutes they start to feel this discomfort on the like the top of their abs wrapping all the way around their back and immediately they just want to slouch over and obviously that's not great for what we're practicing right now and this happens even after we do all the um rib mobilization and the mechanics mix and so I recommended just putting a folded blanket or a block or a book under their buom so that it can relieve some of the tension from their hips that I'm assuming is trying to support the abdomen but everyone on the call and Campbell just wanted to ask if there's anything else that you understand is happening from your expertise that I could help with yeah so the the the simple the simple the general approach would be like if you can get hips higher than knees right so like sitting on a block is the great start but someone can sit on a block and still have their knees elevated so you want them to kind of like sit like I'm trying to do this with my hands you know like have them sitting right on the edge of the bolster of the block and so their pelvis is kind of tip downwards right so you have to sit on the edge right if I just sit back on it it's not automatically especially if I sit quite far back it's going to keep my thighs parallel but if I sit right on the edge and I encourage like my knees to drop lower than my hips that's going to cause the pelvis roll forward a little bit vast majority of people are pretty tight through their hips because they sit a lot you know and so getting into that position if the hips are working really hard and essentially what it sounds like is the orientation between the rib cage and the pelvis is a little bit off right so if that person can allow the pelvis to roll forward it's going to kind of like unlock a lot of that tension between the rib cage and the pelvis so I just think of like positioning the pelvis rolling forwards the second thing would find a completely different position right can you prop up a bunch of pillows so they can lean back at a 45° angle you know we still want to maintain rib cage and pelvis you know so that's why the slumping over is not great but if Fighting Gravity for some people is enough to make it difficult you know it's like sitting up straight for 30 minutes is really hard why do we have to sit up straight you know like no we don't want to just jump to oh we'll just slouch but like what if we propped up and made you this big pillow for and you could lean back on a 45 degree angle so that you're not Fighting Gravity yet you're still straight spine and your rib cage is over your pelvis so you've got the ideal alignment but now you're not working against gravity you know you can just sink into that or can I lay down on the floor or can I do it in a kneeling position with the bolster between my butt and my heels because again that's going to change the orientation of the pelvis so I think sometimes we get told right like the right position is X right to meditate you got to sit in this position but that doesn't take into account anyone's you know just everyone's variance like I I hate I'm so like I've got pretty tight hips and I got a little bit of a tight you know upper back like me just sitting I got five minutes before I'm uncomfortable you know so I can either be like that's the right position and I can fight my way through it and be uncomfortable or I can just find a better position for me you know which is lay down or prop myself up and Lean Forward on the edge of a bolster um or I do like to kneel sometimes you know if I get a blanket between my butt and my heels and I can kneel that allows me to have a straight spine without working too hard and I can be there for 15 20 minutes and it's not a challenge if someone's uncomfortable I would argue they're going to have very limited impact of the the practice itself right and I know that's just true for myself but if you're uncomfortable it's pretty hard to like drop into that really like you know soft self-awareness that's really relaxed because you're like my back hurts I want to move but I shouldn't move because I meant to be still meditating and it's like now there's this like battle going on so I often find like the easy option is often the best option is there a better position for this individual that yes over time working on hip mobility and working on their like yeah we want we want them to be maybe able to sit for 30 minutes in the future but just because that's the ideal end goal doesn't mean we can't use some stepping stones you know so I would think of leaning back against a bunch of pillows getting right on the edge of a bolster kneeling or laying down and seeing if any of those are a nice kind of in between phase whilst perhaps in the background I'm like I'm going to do some hitp Mobility So eventually I can sit for 30 minutes and not be uncomfortable awesome thank you so much that was um any last comments from anyone or questions thanks Christina um otherwise I'm we'll be a little bit more present this week I'm G to start checking back Katie you got your hand up sorry this big truck coming F yeah no worries um I asked Christina a little bit and I think she might have reached out to you but are you gonna let the I forget what coort I'm in whatever cohort I'm in now like I think it I think it's like with either this week or next week that we're finished um are you like pushing that stuff like I guess I'm just confused where we're at so I'll kind of like I'll post today just in terms of what like nothing changes except you have more access there's new content um that will come out after week 12 where you can have access to the alumni stuff what I say to everyone this is just a great opportunity for everyone in that cohort like the primary focus is get through the 12 weeks like so if you're not finished the 12we content don't jump into the alumni stuff you can if you want but again like it's more important to just really have this really strong Foundation which is the 12 weeks there's an additional month where there's different calls so we have calls on like client support and business support and there's content in the alumni um but essentially like nothing will change except there's more content um for the next month and then we'll touch base at the end of that month to be like where to from here kind of thing um but just primary goal is the 12 weeks you know so if you're not finished that that's where I would continue to focus um and then over the next month right there's a quiz to take um and then there's additional content you can start jumping into okay that's what I was going to ask too about in like the quiz and other things like yeah okay there's no necessarily you have to do it by um you've got the next month to do it or after the 12th week so you've got a month um where it's there um but there'll be some instructions under the quiz as well just in terms of like don't have all the modules like don't have all the ebooks open and don't use Google like it's less of a past fail good bad kind of thing it's like where are the gaps in your knowledge base that we can support you you know so if you take four hours to do the quiz because you want to get 100% And you look up every question it's like well that makes it harder for you to know where do you want to actually focus a bit more time on okay that make sense I think so why not know so what still doesn't yeah I yeah no it's good I guess is like this week the last week I don't know um because I'll I'll have to jump I think CU i c Christina keeps going for a long time and I know it's not that long um what's the date today is the 21 so yeah you have another weekly call with Christina this week and that's the 12th week so then the Christina won't happen next week but there's different alumni calls so it's with me um there's like a business support call that happens once a month and there's a clinical reasoning or client support call that happens once a month okay case study the breath work session still continue right so nothing changes there it's just that the weekly call with Christina will end but then that's replaced by a weekly call with me um and then some different content as well but I'll I'll film a little like Loom walk through just so it's like really clear because I know we kind of just like that was a bit Scrappy cool sounds good thank you all right everybody well as I said I I'm I'm more more around this week um I'll be checking in every day so if anyone does have specific questions content related practice related anything that else that's going on um feel free to reach out but I hope everyone's doing well it's nice to see everyone and thanks everybody much appreciated chat soon everyone byebye