I'm playing with Kevin Garnett and now he's embraced me so now I got a hall of a future Hall of Famer embracing me and I meet a kardashan now I'm on TV now I'm with a celebrity Masterpiece his agent he has an Entourage he's not taking the game serious oh he wants to do music he ain't taking the game serious oh he wants to do movies and film he ain't taking the game serious oh he wants to oh he's a porn star oh he's on drugs oh it goes from not serious so now you doing drugs now you doing things we don't accept but you've never had a conversation with me right you never I don't even know y'all who making up the [Music] rumors what's up world it's your boy big Court of the holding Court podcast man here one more again what's up with you Rachel Renee I'm doing well all right that's my oldest child for those just listening just tuning in what's up with your producer K man it's a beautiful day no complaints no complaints that's right that's right man we got a special guest man we got a a throwback partner of mine you know a legend in his own right uh hey he don't mince his words he don't pull no punches he he turned up he he Mr turned up himself and y'all already see his face and they already getting ready in the comments like oh we about to fire this ready man listen my partner NBA former NBA star co-star of uh Gils Arena podcast with the homie Gil uh Gilbert um Arenas Rashad mck appreciate you appreciate I'm here for the smoke I'm here for everything wait is this only the second player we've had on who we had he is we have Matt Barnes we had Matt Barnes and Cino yeah oh yeah yeah yeah we Hado man yeah you know so listen just to give some context and history man me and Rashad go back probably about 10 years yeah yeah about 10 years um in the gym and he's n we met we met well I mute you we met through P yeah he was working with P at the time and was P managing you yeah he was my manager I was uh trying to transition into music yeah that's right and the film show was show was he wanted to stay in sports that's right oh yeah I remember that remember man you too good we got to get you in yeah he was trying to get you back in the league and get you to I think overseas as well if I recall wasn't it yeah overseas D-League League tried everything it was a whole little game plan he had mapped out for you uh real quick since we talking about that what what was that like you know you you know being underp and when you came around us at that time man it's a dream come true bro yeah like people don't be understanding how big p was you know 98 97 99 you know what I'm saying um the dawn ghetto dope No Limit period and I'm from North Carolina so we we had the CDs every week yeah you know what I'm saying and so to get to LA to um be out of the league and having to focus on something other than you know just solely basketball I want to kind of transition I ended up meeting p through a producer Kino I believe Kino shout out to Kino he's at uh at mtown now oh he's doing it still oh he's the vice president that's crazy he got NBA young boy the deal Kino doing his thing Keo wow my [ __ ] yeah yeah so I bought I bought bees from yeah and he ended up introducing me to P yeah and P ended up you know basically saying let's do this I'm going help you just brand yourself and yeah he introduced me to so many different things from you know Charities philanthropy how to be entrepreneur um looking at businesses to buy how to you know facilitate all those things but ultimately first is just um being accountable being responsible for what is in front of you you know your family your friends dissecting who's in your circle yeah uh where you stay you know what I'm saying even you know small things I remember the whole thing I remember even the car you were driving at the time was a discussion cuz you was in a CL 53 63 my bad I mean it disrespect yeah CL63 I remember it was white yeah that [ __ ] was bad cocaine white thing bro that was a monster P it was more so I got I got I got kind of [ __ ] out of a deal with that that car and I remember I remember what you was paying for it but I ain't going to say it was a lot it was a lot I paid it off I remember I remember it was like you got to sit in that back and uh put me in something else man those days was crazy bro I I I cherish those days to the utmost because I learned so much from from all of y'all cuz we ended up working out yeah cuz I'm like hey man ain't no way I ain't have no musles like that I know you getting all the attention all this kind of attention want you got to show me how to do the push-ups and the situps and all that but you already had a solid foundation I mean you you know people that don't see you in person I mean you're a big you're not tall in terms of NBA standards but you're still a tall dude but your frame is big for sure yeah so you know yeah it look different in person you know that's why we tell tell them I'm like hey it's Energy's different in person yeah I remember that that was the thing when we met and I remember um because I don't watch sports you know what I mean and I remember P you know I remember after we hung out I said P I said that [ __ ] in the NBA you know he was like yeah that [ __ ] good I was like that [ __ ] a thug bro that [ __ ] out here like for real bro basketball like man this [ __ ] be acting like he be W to Rob straight that's why I felt like I was no limit bro I'm like bro put me on the squad I can rap I can move but I'm like Court like I want to be security you I want to I want to move around a littleit he being called security no no but I mean and I get that because he's it's not what he is you know what I'm say he was a rapper he was on down south Hustler originally but what you look and I remember that he let me listen to I remember that and I and I remember like having the conversations with him it was like I'm that's not what I am this what you look like yeah exactly exactly remember we was a Universal Studios and we ran down on all them guys they was talking crazy about me and articles and stuff if he didn't like it I do and courts with we all together we just having a good time I do remember that but when they seen him I forgot about that we ran down on him we showing the r down what y was saying we show did yeah we was on I forgot about that that's I was like Yo No Limit but more you more so you because we had this Bond where we can go to the gym work out but you made me be more on my T damn I forgot that bro he be over here trying to talk all that [ __ ] about growing up know I know right back in the day 10 years ago we I forgot we sure did bro damn see if you but you never watched Sports cuz he had that Persona I'm a Kings fan I'm from Sacramento so I play with the I know 9ish like around so yeah if you watch sports you still knew like oh he yeah you got them like Matt Barnes he's a fighter right like like you knew certain NBA players th you know certain NBA players like yeah yeah he not the one like he like he's not the one you know what speaking of that real quick do you think the NBA is softer now than it was like in the 80s with lamb beer and all of them you know it is I know but you've been in the league so well you also are a newer not I mean newer than I mean but I came from the cloth like my dad was a Knicks fan right Oakley and you know hardcore you know Charles Smith in them yeah and he loved uh the Pistons right Bad Boys he was a a Georgetown guy so it was all gritty for him and me watching all of that I came up where he threw me in the fire at 12 years old with the 25 year olds so I got pushed around and and and beat down but I had to stand my own my the time I was 15 I was right the bullies bully you know what I'm saying so I embraced all of that so when you look at the NBA now even when I was playing I had an edge to me that fit into don't [ __ ] with me yeah that night don't with me I'm I'm going to hit you when you come through the lane I'm going to be the one to take a foul every every time I checked in the game I was guarding the top two guard and in our era we had the most talented two guards ever from Vince Kobe Tracy AI Paul Pierce Ray Allen I can go on and on so every time I checked in I bumped them wow and Paul Pierce is ready for the action ready and I used to tell him I got I got five more fouls I got five more fouls so give me all you got bro cuz I ain't playing with you I'm not playing with you who do you think cuz me again I'm not a super sports dude but in the 80s growing up I I would watch to me the biggest thug and the biggest was was lamb beer oh yeah I mean who do you think is more thuggish than lamb beer Rick Mahorn was they on the same Dam team same damn team them two and then A unlikely character is Larry Bird really I heard Larry was a monster what I heard used to tell us story bro yeah what damn bro Indiana Thug talking crazy I knew he had a mouthpiece but I'm saying ly beer would you up and stand on it and then look at you like okay get up and act like Thomas and Larry Bird stand on it yeah they'll you up and stand on it straight up is is Isaiah more than anybody really cuz Isaiah seemed like such a nice guy yeah that's the thing yeah Chicago yeah what up wow what up wow right away put them hands up damn did you ever get into any skirmishes in in the NBA I got into one with Gary Gary Payton okay I heard he was a trash talker oh yeah he's from Oakland yeah I heard he just utterly disrespects you oh yes yeah but see I was the dude that thought I was the best talk trash talker ever you know I could get under your skin I I crossed lines didn't need to be crossed cross I was a habitual line stepper I step on that line and so you when you on the wrong line yeah you know you get Gary pton and I'm guarding full court yeah I start talking some [ __ ] to him and he said hold up what the you say boy and ended up uh knocking the ball off his leg out of bounds and I'm like yeah get that weak ass out of here he walked up on me man and put his finger in my face said don't you ever and he did that and it was up yeah Al uh Alonzo Morning got right in the middle of us right before I was about to I'm like okay GP this what we on put your fingers now I don't like that but behind that yeah it wasn't nobody else that really got under my skin and made me want to do anything I think that was the only time yeah just because he got he got to do that and it's GP so it was expected but I was one of those that I let my energy be known yeah don't come over here with that I'm coming over here with that right right um what's the what's the uh big dude from New York who uh you P used to tussle with oh yeah what was it the crazy dude he he passed away um he was on Charlotte he was in he was on the Hornets with him wasn't he you said up um n he was a big damn whaton Anthony Mason Anthony Mason was a monster and Charles Oakley was on the same team Anthony Mason would let you have itra Anthony Mason Anthony Mason was like Ron Artest on steroids had told us a story about M cuz he was big like you bro yeah really yeah okay what but he was he had what was he about six what 66 damn thugged out he didn't care about nothing yeah c p told horror stories about him he was like yeah man Andy Mason he he was coming at you yes and standing on it yes on the court and off the court on and off the court whatever you want pick your poison R test let me ask you when you was at uh UNCC uh North Carolina um was you was there any presence of Michael Jordan over there at the time you played there Absol he would come back uh he came back I think twice and he talked to us and uh what's crazy is Michael Jordan Essence at Carolina is always going to be him being like the Jesus uh heward number 23 the whole nine and when I got there I was supposed to be and foretold to be the second coming mhm of the Michael Jordan award number 32 um and that's the reason I went to North Carolina you know he was he was held to be the greatest right and I came up I remember the day like it was yesterday that it wasn't about being like Michael Jordan it was like I want to be better than Michael Jordan I want to feel what he feels when kids look up to him I want that admiration and I remember like I said I remember like it was yesterday so every step toward that was chasing him where did he go okay he go to Carolina I got to go to Carolina how much he average I got to average more than that I gotta do I got to do everything more or equal to yeah and so when I got to that stage you know it was like Mike would come to the to the practice talk to us and then he would immediately challenge us to half court shots really immediately how did that work out I I won really oh absolutely I hit it before he did yeah and that that would let me know I'm on Pace yeah I'm on Pace because then he would have his camp in Santa Barbara and we would be counselors and then he was still playing this is right after the Wizards he had just retired still was playing though and we were playing um full court and our team beat his team and boy he didn't like that really he's competitive he's the ultimate competitor he got that and so I went to North Carolina he embraced that because I was the best out of my class and I was doing so well in college where that North Carolina [ __ ] at where bring him over here you was in the first round right like oh yeah 14 yeah 14th pick supposed to go number three but you know attitude politics and all that kind of stuff still you was a first round oh yeah absolutely did you ever cultivate a a personal relationship with Mike or a few times we hung out like I actually can say at some time before everything soured out Mike like seeing me when he was in the place and I walk in he was smile what's up young fella and that to have Michael Jordan do that he even gave me one of his personal cigars one time he ever do that you still got it smok that [ __ ] that night I don't know what I was thinking did it smoke different cuz it came from Michael Jordan what what like you could taste the championship you could touch the championship you can feel it and he was like where am I supposed to put this like he got it out of his little golden little thing like oh you are you can take this one I'm like damn gu I got to smoke it I don't want to smoke put it up there's some [ __ ] you got to do I'm not even like me and Court don't really I went to snoops for the first time and he had all the weed out and it's like I don't really smoke but it's Snoop like I feel like I got to I feel like I got to smoke yeah like just to tell the story yeah cuz you got to be able to tell your kids and be like oh yeah Snoop Dog was the thing like yeah and dad got high with Snoop do like real high yeah when I went down to snoops I got a contact like and I you know I don't smoke or drink I got a contact quick I did no I smoked I broke all of my commands my mouth was dry I was down there tripping bro Snoop is one of the the the greatest you so when you say it went sour meaning so what something happened with no just North Carolina my relationship with North Carolina wasn't and hasn't always been the greatest okay and him being Jesus Oh I turned me into for sure the Antichrist that's no that's right that's right you know so uh even embracing my role in all of this there needs to be an alter Alter Ego for every scenario it needs to be a villain yeah and I'll take that role if it keeps me in the conversation yeah I think you've always been okay playing the villain almost kind of comfortable in that space yes because the villain is always theoretically the good guy explain well look at the Joker right the Joker isn't the guy being the criminal because he likes to be the criminal he's fighting for the people who don't have anything the voiceless the voiceless almost like the Robin Hood steal from the rich give to the poor then you got Batman who's the billionaire yeah right during the day and during the night you come out here and go try to lock up all the poor people who don't got nothing who's trying to fight for something right so I think that when I looked at that element of seeing how all the superheroes are superheroes trying to stop the villains who are fighting for something for the people who don't have nothing or even policies that don't make sense for everybody it's like I I'll Embrace that even if it's misunderstood because at the end of the day when everyone is okay with what we've done to fix the problem you don't have to give me the credit I'll sit back and I'll say at least we know that Superman got to change the way he mooved now Batman got to change the way he B rang now because yeah you know would you consider yourself U I don't know what they call it a m content I've always been considered that yeah and that's the word they use that's the word Mal content man oh and In Articles when I was 177 18 oh damn okay I hit it on the nose I was hoping I didn't defend my brother I was like no no they do use all the words man bipolar yeah oh man just but I've been around you so I no you never been like off the rock or crazy or nothing I mean you know having a different opinion yeah for a lot of people is something that you just can't fathom when you're trying to deal with figuring out what the truth is right and when you can bring the truth unfiltered rubs people the wrong way a little bit so let me ask you you from a child right you you you knew you wanted to be a athlete and be in the NBA so once you got in the NBA you did all this hard work and you got in there what did you see that made you take that position that it wasn't all what you thought it would be that made you want to take that stance and say you know what I'mma I'mma fight for the people or whatever your reason was oh that's a great question bro cuz I can remember that day um kg had just got traded to Boston Kevin Garnett and um he left me as the leader because the guys that were coming in were younger than me and he had kind of taught me the Reigns but I knew that the management didn't really want to put me in that position um because I hadn't earned it yet and I wasn't really considered a franchise guy but I knew then they was asking people to do black um Black History Month PSAs and not a lot of the guys on our team were Pro black kind of guys and I was the only one doing it for like two years and I had tattoos you know the neck tattoos and all that right so I had already kind of labeled myself as the villain before I knew I was the villain and to put context in this day in that time like this wasn't normal and accepted so it's a different time than now go ahead Alan Iverson was probably the only other one exactly and um I think it was Shaq we were at half court and me and Shaq every time we used to play either the Miami Heat or the pho Suns we would always meet at half court he be like bet it shoot shoot it B it and then he was just like one day he's like man how many more tattoos You Gonna Get You trying to be Al something you trying to be the bad guy huh yeah and I thought about it and I was like it ain't bad to be the bad guy is it yeah so if Alan Iverson is considered that then it's the UN it's the misunder stood part of everyone knowing that he just want to be himself yeah just want to be me and it was just knowing that people are uncomfortable being themselves in work elements you know when you got to answer to somebody and they want you to be this way and be that way I wanted to be myself and doing those PSAs let me know everybody didn't want to really embrace the people and then I started I was the first one to start the Charities for like South Salvation Army um all of those group home type uh kids um functions and I would bring him to the game free tickets bought the tickets gave him a section and it was my section then they would come down um half court out take a picture with them they watch me work out on the side go over there and talk to them for a little bit and that invigorated me to do more philanthropy so when I met y'all you guys set up the foundation and it was like oh I'm I'm All About This giving back you know what I'm saying so I knew that the villain is not a villain to the people yeah villain is only a villain to the threat to the system yeah and you know when you in that element you know that the people love you for what you do and and the people who hate you or the people who are benefiting off the people yeah they don't want you to break up that tie of control that they have but what did you see I've seen that D like what was specific that you saw once you got on the inside that was like oh that that there's not many of me that that that they didn't want me there it was like being light in a room for the darkness okay you know it was that feeling like I remember P used to tell me when you walk in the room sh you make the strongest and the brightest people uncomfortable yeah and that's what I started to see every time I came in the room and they knew I was going to say something if something was wrong yeah they would kind of shy away from me yeah pushed me out a little bit but the killing part about that is you I mean you played well you averaged 15 points a game you know uh you never was involved in any Scandal you you didn't drop dirty you wasn't I mean for all intents of purposes you followed the rules yes I did so so even in that being yourself like what was it that I mean I don't know I think we know the answer but was it because you just wasn't going out of your way to kiss ass and hobnob and play the game N I was I was considered a primadonna because of the things that for a guy who hasn't gotten it I was moving around like I already had it because when I played in college I was considered God in my terms it wasn't nothing that I couldn't get have and none of that so when I got to the league I had Championship water still on me y'all wasn't you wasn't stopping me so I'm playing with Kevin Garnett and now he's embraced me so now I got a hall of a future Hall of Famer embracing me then I meet a Kardashian now I'm on TV now I'm with a celebrity right I'm I ain't got my second contract yet right they looking at me like who he think he is you know what I'm saying and even my last year my coaches and my teammates all gave me that energy like jealous envious who he think he is he think he like people don't want you to realize your own power they don't yeah so it was it so it wasn't necessarily racism but plac ISM stay in your place absolutely and people need to understand the difference like it's a great term great he kill bars bars bars for real because a lot of black people get it mixed up Y and think that oh because I'm black and no no no know your place know your place know your it ain't got nothing to do with you you can be here right you can be here but we need you to stand over there yes don't stand up here right camera's up here stay down here we ain't shining it on you yeah so when I I'm like J I always consider myself like Jango I came from the system uhhuh and then I had one of those outliers come pick me up out the lineup and said come over here let me teach you how to do this we going you going to help me and I'mma help you yeah and I came in and I knocked down the doors and I Blew Up the Plantation and they say who is that on that nag who he think he is who he think huh huh and there a lot of Stevens a lot of Stevens been trying to stop me lot of Stevens trying to stop me we going to have to burn basketball when this black ass for real bro it's different out there man wow D it's so crazy CU from the outside looking in of course you know that's why you can't judge people when you don't know what you know they've had to Traverse yeah you know you think that man just play basketball just shut up and dribble yep you know what I mean but not understanding all these nuances and undercurrents that you have to navigate yeah cuz I mean cuz I remember I mean they was basically trying to make you out to be a basket case like you were just incorrigible you know and cantankerous and just and I and I remember being like I mean now this a thug but he ain't he got sense though I never I've been places with you and I'm like ah he go and well spoken I'm like n we didn't been places and done all kind of other than the other gang we did but other than that but he understands time and place so I I I never understood it when they put that label on you it's hard to kind of erase sitting trying to change their mind of it because it's almost like I always try to give scenarios of how a rumor can spread and it's not true but it gets through exactly right and once it's through everyone starts changing the rumor yeah it becomes it goes from oh man he hangs out he it's that telephone game of telephone perfect example Master P is his agent he has an Entourage he's not taking the game serious oh he wants to do music he ain't taking the game serious oh he wants to do movies and film he ain't taking the game serious oh he wants to oh he's a porn star oh he's on drugs oh it goes from not serious to now you doing drugs now you doing things we don't accept but you've never had a conversation with me right You' never I don't even know y'all who making up the rumors right but it's always the confusing side trying to figure out why are y'all hating on me so much why am I such a threat to y'all in the whatever establishment you were behind why is it that you need to keep me out of it let me ask you so you were with Khloe yeah Khloe do you think it was is that Kardashian curse real absolutely oh for real absolutely damn I just got out though okay you got out before it it really got yeah yeah yeah yeah they probably still got some of my hair or something they probably got some so so so what does that mean like from what what is what happens there I mean I know uh what is her name uh the mother Chris Chris Chris right I understand she's domineering she's the brains or whatever but what happens I mean give us a glimpse into what is it okay so they pick you you get picked right oh okay you get picked oh but in this I drafted again but in my scenario though I was before I was before her not only first round but first pick right so it was almost like I recruited her her or allowed her to come in my clout okay you know what I'm saying she had never had anyone yeah that was of my stature okay I'm saying even she told me that they wanted to do a show on us because her fans thought that she was a lesbian she wasn't never being seen with no guys she wasn't as attractive then you know she was still getting through her certain phases of baby fat growing into her body and so she used that as a under like opportunity to be seen with a baller you know and Courtney wasn't that type of girl she was more of a rocker you know what I'm saying but Kim kept the family up with the Ray J and and the Reggie and then off the Kanye right so when I became that for Khloe it allowed it to be a scenario where if you didn't buy into it they'll create a narrative of why you were wrong for it so when I I got there I was good for it until I said nah this too much and I stepped away from it yeah because they something happened with a Facebook this was 09 when Facebook just got around and I put my relationship was complicated with Khloe and went straight to Media Takeout damn went straight to US Weekly went straight to all the major blogs so she hit me they got to do PR management oh she hit me we were together in studio in Minnesota she was like before we go in let me talk to you um so did you put this on your Facebook page and I'm like yeah well you need to run this behind me before you do this because my family and my sisters my mom we have to answer to these things and I said my mom and my sisters don't have to answer to this right you know what I'm off this [ __ ] I got too many I got too many ladies I got too many I'm not trying to hear this you feel me and she tried to BR me back in but at that at that point it was too late so once I pushed out they created narrative to make me look bad and they did an episode they got a powerful platform oh oh I didn't know how power I didn't know how powerful it was you had to find out once you was yeah taking aim at you they did a episode where Kim faked going into my voicemail and finding out that I cheated on Khloe which we hadn't even been talking she didn't even have my number but I had signed that consent form where they can use your likeness any way you any way they want and not even me wow and that was the I'm new to Hollywood I don't know what's going on so they got me there they was able to use that next thing you know I'm a womanizer I cheated on a Kardashian so now I'm in the games referees is you know I'm about to take the ball Out Boy we seen you on TV last night boy you crazy man why you do that to that girl I'm like what not getting caught then I got benched cuz you know Kevin mcel and and the owner they they wives and daughters watch the show and you know it's it's a trickle down effect wow so it it gets a lot deeper than what people think and I was one of the first guinea pigs for it for them to master absolutely and then they got a hold of Lamar which me and him had the same agent and Lamar once I broke up with her three weeks later Lamar picked her up and was marrying her six days after those three weeks wow my agent told me to dump Khloe because she was going to be bad for my career but then was in the wedding with Lamar wow I fired his ass damn soon as I seen it that's crazy then he blackb me because he had never been fired and he was the number one agent in the NBA wow so my story look back on would you still had fired him you think yes because he couldn't get he couldn't get me in based on me being blackballed for dating her cuz he was was trying to tell me to get rid of her early on yeah and for me I didn't understand how it correlated with me playing mhm and then once I got rid of her I seen that the reputation had already faltered where other teams didn't want to pick me up based on wow what was being said and being seen so he hit trying he was trying to protect me in a way yeah but it it became where the point is like bro you're not getting me on I'm I'm not on a team like I supposed to be on a team my stats say get on me on the team for one year deal right um but once that didn't happen I was just fed up I'm like bro you supposed to be the best agent yeah ain't no way I'm not on no team right now you fired damn did you ever get a chance to play with Kobe I didn't you didn't I wish that was that was my dying wish yeah like Kobe was my teacher right mentor and so not to have the opportunity which I had two different workouts maybe three um but just the politics one of the major politics was Lamar was on the Lakers and Lamar was married to Khloe and when I went to workout for the Lakers the media took a picture of my signature when I went to the facility and posted it on Twitter and this and and the post said I don't know how Lamar's going to take this when MCC used to Chloe his wife that's so messy that's crazy so messy so it got back to Lamar which got back to Kobe MH and Kobe was supposed to sign off on me being there cuz his manager assistant was cool with um a couple friends of mine so we was in contact and thinking that Kobe would help me out wow put me on the team and it was like he was real close with Lamar yeah that wasn't happening damn so it infiltrated your whole world everything tore it down I lost everything I lost everything so do you think think that when you say you lost everything was it just a culmination of things it was the the Kardashian thing it was the UNCC thing it was just and absolutely wait so you you get drafted 05 yep 0509 Timberwolves yep and then 09 is Kings 09 for two months Kings is that the last team you play for yep so that that that was around the Kardashian time yeah oh yeah wow yeah and then never again for the NBA nope but not because you weren't putting numbers up no not at all it was never my talent even now the conversations would be you know was was Rashad mck's problem yes he was a pro was his talent the talent we need yes he had the talent we didn't think he was a guy who would do what we needed him to do or because we said it he wasn't a guy that was going to just kiss ass so technically you never really did anything no never never so no one can go to an instance where they say well you know Rashad he beat so and so up or you know he spit on the coach or you know none of that really I'm a leader bro yeah I know that it together we grow yeah I know that and if we are growing together and it's because of the wisdom and knowledge that I have for the team and the intellect I have for the sport I'll do whatever it takes I'll play back seat I'll push the bus I know the we're going to get there because it's it's us so anybody saying otherwise don't know me don't know that I've won on every level and I do whatever it takes to win on every level I can remember you you know always being praised for your IQ of the game so you know on top of the skill yeah so it that's crazy that because you would think that I don't know I guess maybe if you're thinking logically and you're not in that world but if I'm a owner owner and I have a player who okay he may not be friendly he may not play I mean almost like marshan Lyn yes you see what I'm saying he still did his job yes now of course he may not do all the pressure and do you know all the other stuff but he's still gonna make this franchise valuable by winning for us absolutely they couldn't see that and get past that n because only the players can see certain personalities that are brought out by other players so when I'm with my guys they know I'm funny I'm hilarious right I'm serious when it's time to be serious right cuz I I want you to respect me right because I'm giving you respect but when it comes to management they can only know what they've been told yeah they don't want to get down there in the trenches and know who you are how how it's how it's like to be around you yeah so if one of the pr people you know you might not be in the mood to do PR just that one day just grumpy no coffee they take that one encounter that as yeah I don't like them like they not going to account for the other 999 days you did it but they went out my way to do it like oh smiling and yeah signing every autograph in just one day yeah and you got that's why I like teaching these young kids you got to be on all the time because it's 90% mental 10% physical you got to know how to navigate mentally yep play the game because I never was taught the game you hear about it hey you got to play the game you got to play the game and then exactly that one guy that you're telling that to is not asking you so what is the game mhm cuzz all you're hearing is play the game young fell play the game I'm like yo yo what's the game you to that you know you know the game no I don't say it what is it you know come on man you know the game you know the game so what he's saying is you got to kiss some ass you know what I'm saying you got a brown nose a little bit you know I'm chucking J you know what let's let's let's let's that old mystical lyric 90% of this [ __ ] is your business 10% sh is your talent but let me tell you let's let's remember that super let's un unpack that for for a second though Rashad so let's define cuz I think I mean we know what overt ass kissing is right but if you unpack what's ass kissing what's playing the game right so for me playing the game is like you know I guess with me being you know I'm almost 50 right so at this point at this juncture of my life I understand that what I'm thinking I don't always need to say yep right I don't always need to say what's on my mind right and I don't think that now maybe 20 years ago I would have felt like I was giving up something yes you know but I think with maturity you know you like okay I it ain't that important who cares you know I I've de I've dealt with and people that are you know uh could be considered a boring people right but if I could benefit from them you know now I'm not going to do it to the point where I'mma compromise myself but you don't have to like everybody that you deal with right he talking about me right on the show right he just gave me my flowers he said you just gave me my you know it's like you know and so you don't have to like everybody or even understand everybody that you do business with So when you say when we say kissing ass and playing the game is that a form of kissing ass if you don't speak your true feelings about someone and act on them that's a good question because it's like if you could just shut the up sometimes yeah that's that media training it is it Med I'm saying but even in real life though right it's been I've run into people who I know was I don't like you I don't like nothing about you but we meet at this point and if it's beneficial for us I can tolerate you but it's we don't have a personal relationship for me to be personal with you it's just business so now am I kissing ass am I playing the game you know that's just emotional intelligence and finesse and maturity thank you daughter that's what I thought you know but I'll give you I'll give you context give you context on something for that so you can either shut the up right or in this situation in college this is when I knew I was different because the coach would co uh coach Roy Williams came in it was his first year and he just came from Kansas bunch of white guys that he coached maybe a couple black guys but he got in there and we were eating pregame meal we all wore our suits but he wanted to reiterate guys when you come to these pregame meals I want you to make sure you you're not wearing jeans with holes in them and do rags dressed like Snoop Doggy Dog God now remember this is like 2003 when Snoop was P so I said I was confused I'm like but coach Snoop Dogg is a pimp he wears suits he has a perm yeah and everybody turned around and looked at me yeah what the [ __ ] why would you say that and I was just like but what it's a it's it's 10 black guys on this team out of 11 yeah and I know this white kid Don't Wear No do-rag yeah so what are you saying here coach right another instance we we're at practice he can't get our names right my name's Rashad jaad Williams and ran Terry three names kind of similar but not he gets mad because he keeps messing our names up all of a sudden he says man why can't I just call you Peter John and Billy wow [ __ ] yeah now I mean I could shut up nobody can say nothing we just let coach Cook right but it just didn't sit right with me coach listen my name is Rashad and I'm gonna need you to call me that I feel that yeah no that's right I'm not no that's just human respect I mean you you just just asking for human respect isn't you know but that's the difference between playing a game I could shut up and not ENT everybody else shut up something different and I be standing on the difference it's a Difference Maker cuz if I don't let him know in that moment that at least one of us don't feel like that was something say run all over I mean the the ultimate example is cap look at cap look at Kaepernick there you go he did when you really break down what he did he wanted to stand up for something and he actually consult the very first time he took a knee first time he sat down he sat down like three times yeah and then the first he and then some mil everybody's getting all Rowdy and then he met with that military dude who was like we take a knee for our brother who's falling in battle so the first time he took a knee he was next to the military he was with the military guy like I want I want y'all to know I honor you this is about what's happening to my people yep and [ __ ] if he didn't get black ball from the game to this day I was just reading that he was trying to go uh there's no reason why he shouldn't have tried out for the Jets after Rogers got hurt in the first game he arguably still better than any of the options that they had out there but no he stood on his and respect to him for doing that shout out to Cabernet and that's what happen would you say your career is parallel kind of mirror his million per mine is even more dynamic because I don't think he was ready for that he wasn't expecting what was coming with that he had just went to the Super Bowl he yeah he wasn't he just doing what cuz he had just got a new girlfriend that's Pro black and it was giving him this incentive to understand like fight for fight for your your people right um but I don't think he was ready to go on the Malcolm XPR and like I'm ready for that I'm built for that I'm built for being this super the superhero villain type so whatever smoke was coming my way I've always fought that battle so when I look at Kaepernick and how he approached that and how everyone kind of left it alone and abandoned it it's kind of how you know what happens when you become a villain right it dies out if you don't keep it going yeah you got to keep that fight going I feel like he gave up you know and we still fight the fight that I'm fighting every day and I'm speaking on podcast like this voicing the stories but if we can further the conversation to some more intelligent meaningful Solutions right to all the things people are fighting for yeah instead of just talking about it exactly I think we can see some results you consider yourself are you still the villain I think I'm turning I'm turning the tide to be more of the vigilante okay right you know what I'm saying the both both sides so a hybrid yeah so I mean I think that's a better more comfortable position for me um where I'm not getting any praise or criticism for what happens got I'm in the middle so now that you're in this uh media space um recently the situation with you and Pat so that got pretty heated I thought you was going to wear the crown why you bring it man but I just didn't know I didn't know what the vibe was going to be man I thought about it I thought I thought I thought you I I want to I wanted to be me the court the court no you back then I was barely Sunny black then I turned into King Sunny black you know what I'm saying but I thought about it in the I thought brought the crown but um what I mean y'all got pretty heated you know what I mean and he was talking about he made you quit or something like that like and all that was real mhm all that was real oh yeah okay so I mean stand now I know it was content I know it's not oh you don't know him no oh I thought that's why I would got heated because he got to the set he just said what he said and I had looked at it all like what is this dude talking about he made me quit but that's like you don't know saying I I smacked him and took his chain this chain I got on now right I got you I got you and then you see that you're doing it for clout yeah I was about to say yeah why why would he specifically like why was he I have that we worked out okay and we worked out at a time where I was with P yeah and I'm trying to get back in and this was one of those Laker promises where I'm like I'm going work out with them the Lamar thing had happened and I knew I was kind of going to get black bar but they was promising me things along the way like all right look if you go over there you get some footage get some film you haven't played in two years this I've been black ball for two years at this point right I ended up working out with him mhm but in this workout we're doing little stretching drills and and um metric drills and I did a vertical test and I came down on the metal bar and I sprang my ankle now I'm trying to finish the workout but I just couldn't finish so the GM came over like man you don't need to finish don't even worry about it you didn't come in here for that yeah so Pat I don't know this is 2012 wow 2023 you brought this back up bro yeah talking about you made me quit damn then came on the podcast and proceeded to say well if you don't finish a workout then you know you quit I'm say I'm like I'm like so I got hurt I didn't finish the workout so you're saying I quit so everybody quit because of him and he said I quit because of him that's crazy I'm curious what was the energy like once the cameras turned off he was he out of there he was out of there okay I went to the bathroom like I go to the bathroom after every episode cuz we sitting there for two hours yeah so I had to pee every episode I'm the first one in the bathroom yeah got up went to the bathroom came out he was gone I wasn't even the bathroom a minute damn gone was you trying to have a off camera conversation I just wanted to say what's up bro what's up what's up what's up with this energy bro yeah what you mean you made me quck how could you even say that and stand on that like a man you don't know me man that that'd be crazy because you know it's funny uh people people here go the rund down round two I was going to say it'd be crazy because people be having a different energy when these cameras come on and like I tell people all the time when these cameras go off and you log off social media you got to live a real life what you have to live a real life yeah I just recently uh had a situation where yeah it was a somebody called me on the phone about some you know trivia and to be honest with you I was kind of remember uh Eddie Murphy Raw yeah and when he said Eddie uh uh uh Bill Cosby like that you call I was damn there like that right but again I'm at a different space so I entertained it but I'm like but when I see a person or I go out of my way to try to at least that person has seen you in person I think no he did he did no he he knew I I I made sure he knew that I was where he was cuz I called him and I text him and said here I'm just trying to get in your face at you know but just that energy don't be there right and it wasn't even on no on no on no really no R but at least let's talk as men you know and look me in my face and let's feel each other and have a conversation you know are we not men anymore n not really man a lot of these they hide behind these the social media weird that's what when we ran down on them Universal I'm used to you got to see me at some point bro and my energy may not look like yeah it's threatening on camera or on the internet but when you see me bro EX speak to you and I want to know what's up and that's on some that ain't even on some gangster tough It's just man like know what's up and and sometime it's a conversation it's like damn don't nobody want to do n your scary ass let's just relax bro but they see the muscles and they be like man you relax man it's like what you mean relax I'm like damn you was popping your on social media I mean at least half ass pop it now in front of me but you know I don't know bro it's weird we went from Studio gangsters to podcast gangers podcast gang a lot of of them it's a lot of them it's just social media gangsters like nobody want to be real and you know and this is why I tell people all the time and because you're in the media space as well you know I'm not going to say anything on a platform that I'm not going to go out of my way to say to someone twice to their face so I mind my business right I ain't gonna get on here and Gaslight and call this if I call you a on this podcast then trust me when I see you I'm going say the same thing it might be a little bit see you going to wa and you don't see me I'm going say hey make sure you know cuz then I'mma feel like some kind of ho if I don't cuz I don't hold up my an you know what I mean so that's why prevention is the best cure I just try to keep my nose clean and stay out the way but you know so I'm shocked that he didn't at least want to stay and say hey bro let me tell you why I said what I said Not only did he not do that bro but he took it a step further he went and got in the car and ordered a crown really ordered a crown and in 24 hours the like 24 hours pass he did a podcast talking about man I got a do do do Cabana Crown man with the diamonds and he putting it on his and I'm like bro first of all I'm the only wearing a crown out here yeah so I'm flattered that I can inspire you yeah to try to step into your real manhood yeah and your sovereignty of what it is to be a king I'm I'm proud crazy but the fact that you think you trolling because you was on our show and you know we we went at it and I I let you off light just because I don't have to defend myself with my talent against yours my res out off light in what respect just the fact that I didn't really like go in about how his like who like his career like oh okay like just him about say turned up on I turn I didn't though yeah to me you did cuz I thought I thought you was going to get up actually no no cuz it it was more of just trying to figure out like man what is you talking about yeah what you talking about you made you wasn't even like he didn't understand that he was a rookie or wherever he was coming in I'm already going into my I would it would be my sixth year this is you ain't even played in the NBA yet right I'm a vet in this in this scenario scenario so for you to say you're saying cuz you're playing now yeah and I'm retired is insulting you're not putting respect on who I am in my name and that's where it was getting upset then he then he says like how's that treating you how's that treating you how did that work for you like him playing and making money that he made in the NBA out trumps what I've been through to be on this podcast talking to you now you came on our podcast to get clout what you mean how did it work out for me yeah yeah I ain't making 10 12 30 million no I don't need that not to be that you want to be that part that part and I told him I'll you right now we can go play right now I will murder you boy 39 yeah still got it you think you could take him one I know he's a little boy yeah that's Hulk against Ant-Man cuz Pat a good hacking fouling he ain't strong enough you I'm too much too much too much sauce you still play absolutely okay that's why it bothered me cuz it's like bro right now what happened in 2012 hey you know what it's like like when content creators get into it right or people on the internet they usually have uh like celebrity boxing matches and they y'all need to have a celebrity one onone for some money no way you don't want to do it bro I was told never to use these hands no no no I'm saying one-on-one basketball Oh I thought you talking about boxing oh no no no I mean put some money up and we go to 12 even that said it would be embarrassing yeah I'm when I played I was one of them ones that considered like one-onone players it was Kobe Paul Pierce T-Mac and like me footwork all of that and not a lot of people are going to be like oh that's accurate because they don't know but when I lined up against guys one-onone I walked in the gyms and we played and it was I was different I was definitely different so I put that on anything and I've already beat a certain amount of good good good players one onone and I'm not going to say so you know I was going to ask you you know yeah yeah you don't want to say who I mean you said you came with the smoke you know Paul George was one of my guys that one onone PG and if PG is considered one of them ones I can I can say if I can beat him yeah who's next that's right you know what I'm saying and that's that's when I was in rare form right you know what I'm saying so um and that's my little bro you know what I'm saying but he didn't know he had no idea yeah until it was over yeah he from out here too anal Val right yeah that's my that's my that's like I said that's my young fell but he's the OG now two two young fellas right and they don't understand that PG got to put respect on my name and a lot of other guys you know what I'm saying got to put respect on my name but it's not about Toton horns or you know saying too much cuz I let my game be for myself but now I can't I can't go back can play in the NBA and prove anything you know what I'm saying that that window's gone let me ask you this so you you played in The Big Three uh ice cubes big three for a couple years and you know uh you played with Cino who's been on the show how did you like the big three The Big Three was definitely needed it was dope Ice Cube shout out to cube um he put on a great show for not only the former players and the former Hall of Famers but for the fans that wanted to see them you know opportunity for merchandise mobilia um getting autographs on I know I got George gerin and Clyde Drexler and Gary Payton and all those guys autographs and just to be able to resurface you know a lot of guys when you get out of the league you don't really have another leg to stand on because we gave it all we got into this particular industry so Ice Cube opened up another Avenue for us not only to make some money but to be seen on a national stage um to go around the country and you know travel like a NBA team again we got that feeling again and that was important for a lot of us so we can close the book because I got to close the book yeah and say you know what let me show y'all I could still hoop and I was still hooping on one leg Tor miniscus and all kind of [ __ ] but I was number one pick we went undefeated we won the championship and I hit the gamewinner and got the MVP so for my story book ending it was beautiful Beautiful cuz I was able to say hey I still not only do I still got it but I'm still a winner that's right I didn't come out here to lose at all I came out here to not to win every game so that was the one opportunity I can really say Ice Cube helped and facilitated nice did you ever think about before everything happened did you ever think about life after ball in real time or was it after all the time that's what when I got with court m p my life after basketball was music because music was my first love and then film you know film was my second love I wanted to be like Will Smith Denzel and I want to be like Tupac and like these were my guys that I like wanted to follow um basketball was something I was just really really good at easy it came easy to me so once I got to Hollywood it was try to find an acting coach um I think it was Kevin spyer um and get in the studio as much as I can and when I was in the league I was in the studio every city I was in wherever I was in I was always in the studio making music so it was um trying to find that Avenue of where I can get into the industry and P was ultimately my good luck TR for that because I I lucked up and got with him and this was like I'm with masterp 85 million sold are we serious right now who's better to get in the game with at this time right so life at the basketball at that point was what I was thinking about in the entertainment industry but that didn't go well I went into Tech um which allowed me to be a graphic designer editor director prod oh you a tech for real for sure metaverses all that what nice yeah I I I try to keep myself busy yeah when you go broke now there's a lot of things you start figuring out got to figure out but you know the one thing that about you though that people may not know is he you are very intelligent people don't know that part you know you're very high very intelligent so you know he ain't no dummy just cuz he thugged out play ball hold on though he said music is his first love so we got to do a top five oh yeah we we do a top five with everybody yeah let's do a quick top five top five five number one okay pocket number one I'm always CU I just refurbished my top five right okay Nas number two okay Kanye number three oh W that's the first time I everybody wants to go back in the day I understand first time that we heard Kanye want say Nas J Bigg e all that but I'm G just I'm G say Pac Nas um Kanye Kanye kill me for this man Lou Wayne's my four JZ is my five okay you can't throw Jay out um I know everybody's strong five is the major the major five but to me I'm I dissect body of work I dissect longevity I dissect impact of community Society lyrics content substance all right hold on wait all of those things there might only be it might only be five top five NBA rappers what we got Shaq Kobe uh I don't even know if is five no arest didn't arest my homeboy y'all talking about the ones from forest arest about lard D Lillard had a song with Mazy didn't he Lillard got a song with a lot of people Wayne Uh all right top five NBA rappers I'm go or just dudes that wrapped that you wrapped with because they might not even Shaq oh man PG can rap but he ain't got nothing out okay okay put him in there three three PG's on my three um I don't I don't want to be cliche and say AI because Chuck wouldn't really consider that like a real thing him rapping back then so I'm gonna say myself okay okay for and uh damn throw Kobe in there sh and Giggles okay all right let me ask you something random and I this just randomly came to my mind and it's so you're from North Carolina um Charlotte but you were born outside of Asheville Asheville how far is that from Charlotte two hours okay are you in the baby Ken cuz y'all look like y'all could be cousins brother the baby the baby y'all look like y'all could be cousins or something like that why I be hearing that all the time though yeah I just noticed it I'm like damn I'm like damn this [ __ ] look like somebody shorter though is way shorter but whole mouth full of teeth and all but y'all y'all y'all look like y y'all could be I don't know it might be cousins or something man hey as long as it's keeping me in this conversation man I'm not mad at it I heard a couple chicks and said yeah yeah so um man what you got what you got cracking now what what you got popping Now new oh man right now um I just finished my second book called bum to billionaire it's on Amazon right now a philosophy Survival Guide Book of um pretty much during the covid situation I was able to go back and say you know what let me give my peace of mind to the Future generations of what it is to be a bum and what it is to be a billionaire in the non-traditional sense of the terminology right everybody thinks bum means you know homeless man on the street right and then billionaire all man with all this money but it's to me it's mentality that's right responsibility accountability uh what you're willing to go through the fire to get right and I kind of go through explaining the bum mentality I Know Rich with bum and I explained that too rich [ __ ] with bum you rich but you still a bum and I know bums with yeah that don't have the opportunity you know what I'm saying and I talk about that I had a book um back in 2017 called Plantation education um that's out on Amazon as well I just finished another book maybe a week ago called the light with love it's going to be something that can be turned into a TV show I'm really proud of that um and I also just started a foundation called the mindset Foundation nice which is a mental health uh charity that focus on athletes um entertainers adults senior citizens on how you know to help provide um some assistance with mental health as far as um having someone their support systems emotional support systems but also consultings uh mentors for the athletes things that can help you in the future um opportunities bu building your business knowing where to go with it just having a place where you can go and get some advice and some help anything you need that's dope that's dope well man listen I'm GNA wrap it up I ain't going keep you CU we got to keep it pushing but uh man I appreciate you my brother will you I want you to come back will you come back what okay cuz cuz it's a l you know how hot you is right now I appreciate I appreciate that I heard the breakdown back here because this the thing bro it's a lot of that that we did like I I wanted to talk about when we went to tties and you know you know what I mean yeah I want to talk about some [ __ ] just our experiences in Miami and some of that other [ __ ] so man you promise you come back 100% all right br br all right man well I appreciate you for coming man that's my brother M brother holding Court podcast big Court Rachel Renee producer Ken man Rene hey we got to come back I'm in I'm in all right we out [Music] sir