user you're up next Ali Iraq alaq he's three and0 user three and0 bro this guy's undefeated bro straight Knock by the way all righty uh so no I don't believe the father punished the son hold up hold up user user would you like to introduce yourself like your uh your you know what you are your Easter Orthodox you Catholic what are you bro I'm Orthodox okay you're easn Orthodox okay oh yeah so the father did not punish the son well do you believe that the son was punished at all no the son was not punished okay so I just have a question regarding the the sunship and the the Holy Spirit if you're okay with that is that okay with you yeah yeah go ahead so under Christianity the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons correct yeah how do you distinguish the persons uh their hypostatic properties hypostatic properties would those be paternity affiliation inspiration yeah okay what's the difference between spiration and filiation um so one difference you can say is that spiration is through a person because the sun is spired through the spirit or other way around my bad um and there are other differences but we aren't made no to them okay so would you say that God aspirated through God oh yeah you could say that so how many gods is that under classical logic uh it's one God because when you're referring to the persons um you can refer to them in a predicative way and that's what you're doing there right because you're predicating God onto each of the three right yeah but it's not multiple gods because there's no division oh so you think it needs to be division for there to be multiplicity uh no not multiplicity but for there to be polytheism so what about okay so polytheism what is what do you mean by polytheism multiple gods it be it'd be multiple divided Gods so it is multiplicity that's why you you'll notice this in the the Quran says that if there are multiple gods they'd be fighting over the throne so the Quran presupposes that multiple gods includes multiple Wills but in the Trinity there's only one will oh thank you for saying that um so you believe that there's only one will in the Trinity correct so is it the father's will to spirate uh no okay it's the father's will that the son is spirate but that is not the cause of it wait so the father is not the Eternal cause the father is but it's not by Will so what is it by then uh his it's his property of his person a property of his person okay and is that how is that that obtained is that by will it's not obtained so how does he have it then if it's God doesn't God doesn't obtain his properties do you think obain his 99 Names well no because there's only one of Allah but there's three of your Gods that's how that doesn't matter yeah he obtains it because he begs that's not obain though it's Eternal it's Eternal so God is eternally the eternally causing the two other gods is what you're saying the two other persons the two other persons who are Gods so that means that there's two Gods because you're predicating God to the two so if I were to I'm saying there's only one God because there's no Division I mean you you can count there's two ways of counting in this you could count by Identity or you could count by division and so we're saying that when counting by division there's only one God but counting by identity there'd be three Gods right uh because of the way the predictive term is used yeah but that's what we're saying we re we believe it's revealed that the one God means that there's no division one God so so under so identity right which is a law of classical logic there would be three Gods right I it's not about the law of identity it's about counting yeah if we wait wait so God so the father is God the son is God the holy spirit is God the father's because there's no division there's it's still counted as one God well you count it as one God to preserve your because no because there's multiple ways of counting and you're presupposed we have to be counted by identity for it to be monotheism no I think you you can count identity the counting by identity that's not true at all it's an ax wait it's an axiom it's not something that is to be presupposed no can you give me an example you think you think counting by identity is the only way to count not the only way but it's right so byis hold on you made a You made a big blunder can you give me an example of counting by division uh out like in the you know in any case it can be physical metaphysical just give me an example of counting by division um a car that's one car Wait a car what when you count when you count things with parts you're not counting by division and I'm not saying it's Parts but it's an analogy wait wait so when you count how many how many identities does a car have it is is identity no has one Toyota it's one identity one it's one whole oh whole so is there a part hole relationship within God uh no because there's no competition but I composition but I'm using it as an analogy okay so it's disanalogous then because there's no composition it's not disal analy of something simar me okay you just told me that there's composition in a car and there's no composition within God so it's disanalogous no it's not do do you understand what an analogy is yeah you're you're essentially drawing a parallel and I didn't even ask you for any analogy means there's some similarity between it and that's what I'm saying I'm not saying that I didn't I didn't ask you for an analogy I asked you for an example of of counting by division you said a car I gave I gave you an example of something we count we can count by division that's what you asked a car so so if we say that there are two just because the car has composition doesn't mean we can't count for identity when it comes to God you're presupposing counted by division requires broing is God to a car bro Wicked work man not you you guys are the ones that have a problem with saying God is not like creation we don't have that problem so so do you believe that okay so do you do you believe that someone is wrong in counting by identity in in the Trinity say that again is someone wrong or unjustified by counting by identity within the Trinity no because you can count the same thing oh so someone's not wrong in saying there's three Gods so they're right in saying that there's three Gods there's not one way to count things we we're saying that the the Trinity can be counted by identity and by division and we're saying what we believe that what it means for there to be one God is when counted by division perfect so you can count both by identity and by division So within the Trinity if we count by identity there's three Gods if we count by division said I already said when you're using the word in a predictive sense yeah it doesn't matter what sense I'm using the word it does because you're presupposing that one God has to mean counting by identity well I'm I'm assuming that counting by identity means one God so what's what's your argument that for there to be one God as would mean that it was counted by identity and not division well no no I don't believe that I don't believe that you can count by identity and get to one God in the Trinity no I'm asking you for your God either why do why does one God have to be one identity County one identity instead of counting by division yeah we don't we don't use this foreign uh counting method it's not foreign it's something that's super common in the ancient no actually actually your your your leader said underclass division is hold up user hold up let him talk what you say bro all right I need my not making an argument ear hold up bro earlier he said counting by identity under classical logic you're going to count three Gods that's what he said that's L what you said yes it is wait wait wait user do you think that God follows the laws of logic um God doesn't follow them because the laws are created but hold hold on hold on Ali go ahead did you just say laws of logic are created the laws of logic are created but they have their basis in the mind of God they have their basis in the mind of God so when you say their basis you're saying that the laws the created laws are in the mind of God right yeah no the not the created ones but the laws oh so there's created the concepts of the laws are in the mind of God the con of them is in the mind of God okay so the laws that govern our universe are created okay wait the laws that govern the universe are created yeah okay so God is necessarily logical and he cannot be illogical correct correct because you're about to be cooked you're about to be fried in about five seconds so would you say something that violates the law or sorry would you say something that violates classical logic is illogical yeah well depending what you're saying classical logic is yeah I'm just going to be the law of non-contradiction identity and excluded middle blct what I'm doing bro just chill I got you so so if you said if you say under classical logic there are three Gods but you're making the claim that there's one God is that count cting by identity is not the same thing you're conflating that with classical logic both County by identity and County by division are logical inter counting by division is not a stop saying counting by division that's just that's not argument that's not AR no that's that counting by division is a foreign thing nobody this is a joke not true it's not true it's not true you're just claiming that you don't have an argument for it so so if you say that there are three apples but because they're identical in so far as their Essence which is what three apples are divided wait no but they're they're distinct that's the point it's because they're distinct they're divided they're not just distinct so if they weren't divided so if they weren't divided be one apple that wouldn't be an apple then well no but you can still count the distinctions so this you can't you really you can't count distinctions if you have three apples and you say they're one apple and you said by identity that's not three apples anymore exactly so if you have three Gods there's one God that's not one God anymore do you don't understand apples are physical temporal spatial things right they're not metaphysical right right and you're counting you're counting the apples by identity right yeah and they're divided so it's counting by both identity and by division do you understand that perfect so how do you count the persons of the Trinity because the persons of the Trinity are not physical nor are they divided how do you count dis I I've told you I've told you because they have distinction yeah how do you know that because it's revealed wait you just got yourself he just doesn't understand the theology no user user you just said apples are physical and they're divided so you can't that it's not analogous to Trinity well how do you count three how do you count the distinctions in Trinity what do you mean cuz the Trinity the persons of the Trinity are not physical so how do you count You Can Count things that are not physical exactly so your objection saying that oh apples are physical they're divided that doesn't matter because something doesn't need to be divided in order for to be M multiplicity right no I what what I'm saying to you what I'm saying to you is that counting by a division you can't say there's one apple because apples are necessarily divided by their nature okay tell me how you count by division in the Trinity regards to the Trinity uh the three persons are not divided so there's one God the three persons are not divided so there's one God is that's that's how you count by division yeah okay so can you tell me how that follows like what's the what's the logical is that like modus tlins what how does that follow because they're distinct they're distinct right there three persons but distinction is not division so there's no division between them so when counting by division there's one God perfect so could you say there are three distinct Gods Not separate Gods no because when you're when you're saying three distinct Gods you're referencing counting by division wait but when you say when you say you're counting by identity wait but are you counting by division with the persons persons are not divided you just said you just said if I say three distinct Gods I'm counting by division right three STK Gods you're counting I guess right so how do you count to three persons are you counting the persons by division the persons are counted by identity and they're counted I'm saying I'm saying you count them you count the same thing in both ways you you count the same thing in both ways yeah that's why we say God is three and one and that's in reference to the different way of counting so if if we say that each person is God and there are three persons how many gods is that under classical logic not using your foreign counting by div it's not foreign and I I already explained when you're using the predictive sense that's when you're counting by identity but when we're saying there's one God that in that in Revelation refers to um counted by division okay so when you're saying I'm using it in a predicative sense that's counting by identity correct correct the son is God Jesus Is God right so so I'm counting by identity there correct yeah okay now a predictive what's your actual argument I know you're just trying to get me to say oh there's three but that's not a real argument because our AR gave me the argument brother brother you gave me the argum that the Revelation because let me finish user user my argument you just gave me the argument because you said if you count in a predicative sense that's by identity and you agree that under identity there would be three Gods but you don't count by identity you count by division correct no that's not okay if you count it by identity listen to what I'm saying if you counted by identity how many gods would you count listen to what I'm saying user if you count it by identity I'm saying when we say the old test says one God it's referring user he's asking a question well he's not letting me answer no but you're not yeah you're just diverting at this point answer his question I'm not okay ask your question II so so if you're counting if you're counting by identity how many gods do you count answer that question don't answer not answer answer your question I already said when you're counting when you're speaking of it like that in the predictive way there's three okay three okay all right have a good night okay okay so so I want everyone it's so brain I you know I told you Malik that the that the Easter ORS have like atheistic View and the Catholics have like a motv bro Ain no way bro hey Ali rocki's 4 and0 guys wait wait hold up hold up can listen for the sake of Allah can you bring up user for 10 seconds all right all right all right all right I'll give him I'll give him one more chance all right user I'll give you one more chance man but user just one last one last question man all right okay us you know that that's not a real argument you probably follow just ask no no no it wasn't the argument because you didn't let me ask you the question so that that wasn't the argument because you said when you're using it in a predicative sense is this an internal critique hold on user wait wait wait you said when I'm speaking in a predicative sense using identity there are three Gods correct not by division under identity I've answered everything you've said you haven't answered anything in M very cly so so user so in a sense is this an internal critique answer my question user wait wait user in a sense there are three Gods correct is this an internal critique user in a sense you won't answer dude you're dis user is this an internal critique or what user answer answer question answer this is this this this proves his point bro if you answer don't run okay here we'll get to that just this in a sense is there three Gods I've already answered this five times okay no you didn't you haven't answered this I've been listening in a sense is there three Gods yes or no yes yes or no I would be good night said he has three gods in a sense they have three Gods said in a sense there's three Gods yeah