Transcript for:
Debate on Trump, Immigration, and Democracy

My family lineage is settlers from the 1500s. Colonialists. Yeah, colonialist. You don't look very Native American to me. Native I am Native American. Whites are Native Americans. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? You're a little bit more than a farright Republican. Hey, what can I say? I think you can say I'm a fascist. Yeah, I am. Listen to me. I am an immigrant. I'm speaking from personal experience. I don't even like I should get the hell out. Why? I don't want you here. I'm Mandy Hassan. I'm a journalist. I'm the editor of Zateo. And today I'm surrounded by 20 farright conservatives. My first claim is Donald Trump is pro- crime and procriminal. Welcome. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I'm Eddie. Uh, I would just like to ask, um, what makes someone pro crime versus, you know, anti-rime? I think when you're soft on criminals, when you let criminals out of prison, when you pardon people who assaulted police officers, you're pro- criminal. Donald Trump pardoned almost 1,600 people who were involved in January the 6th. I think 600 of them had been charged with assaulting a police officer or obstructing a police officer. 170 had plead guilty to assaulting a police officer. 70 had plead guilty to assault with a deadly weapon. JD Vance said, "We're not going to pardon the violent criminals from January 6th." Donald Trump pardoned all of them. Are you okay with that? Uh, I would say January 6th is a very special case. I would say it's a very it's almost a a climax point in history, I would just phrase the question this way. Right now in the LA protest, if they were to just for example, they were to rush the capital of LA, I mean, they'd have to move over all the homeless people living in tents on the steps of the capital. But if they were managed to get into the capitol and they were just protesting, you know, peacefully, let's say police officers were rushing them in. They were letting them in and saying, "Hey, you guys can go in." Like we have many testimonies that say, "What about the violent ones, though?" Okay, violent ones like like a man named David Dempsey, a judge, a Reagan appointed judge sentenced him to 20 years in prison. He stomped on police officers heads. The judge said his conduct was exceptionally egregious. He attacked police officers with flag poles and pepper spray. Donald Trump pardoned him. There's a man named Daniel Rodriguez. He got 12 years in prison for taking a stun gun and tasing a police officer in the neck and giving him a heart attack. The judge said he was a one-man army of hate. Donald Trump pardoned him. Does that not make Trump procriminal? He's letting violent criminals out of prison. I would say no. It doesn't make him procriminal. One You're okay with that? I did not say that. I said that one pardon against somebody. It was 1,600 pardons. 600 those were charged. One example that you just gave me. I can give you more. I keep going. Fine. Fine. And I'll say the exact same thing every single time. your argument will fall apart because it's not just one example if I keep going. Go for it then. Okay. Shane Jenkins got seven years in prison for nine criminal offenses, attacking police with a deadly weapon, destroying government property pardons that probably shouldn't have happened turn into proime. So you've agreed that they shouldn't have been pardoned. Sure. But that wasn't your claim was January 6. Your claim was Trump is pro crime. Yeah. Because he pardons criminals. Okay. I would pardon Let's talk about non- January 6 people. He's pardoned people like Paul Walsh recently who took millions of dollars from his own employees, was sentenced to tax crimes, had to pay back $4 million. Trump pardoned him. He bought himself a $2 million yacht. Why is he pardoning criminals like that? Uh, well, I don't know. I don't think you should I don't think really presidential pardon should be a thing at all. But I don't think I don't think that means something. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. Thanks. How's it going? Hey, how's it going? Medi, what is it? Medi, you're from Northern UK, I guess. I'm from London, North London. Okay, fair enough. What's your ethnic background if you don't mind asking? My parents are from India. Okay, perfect. Just getting premise here. First of all, I want to say the premise of Donald Trump being pro crime. No, no, no. I want to concern myself with why you care about what's happening in the US first and foremost. Secondly, I want to say this with the argument like should people who live in the US or let's not interrupt each other because I'm I have this thing like people know I have this thing I have to stay calm. Okay. So, okay. Here's the thing. I am happy that he released J6. In fact, so much so that I was prepared to protest if he didn't. Okay. So, when you say are you okay that he's pro- crime? Sure. Because you know what? We're changing the definition of what crime is first and foremost. You don't think stomping on police officers heads is a crime? I don't think it's it's it's no longer a relevant conversation anymore. You're arguing. No, it's not because you know what? Okay. Have you seen the US in the last four or five years, BLM protests? Have you seen Okay. I myself have been involved in these protests. I've seen egregious things, things that you couldn't even imagine to conservatives. It's not about that. It's about tribal warfare. That's where we're at in the US. I don't know where you're at in the UK. You're from India, so I don't really I'm not from India. Oh, sorry. Your parents are from India. So, you have your own stakes. I'm an American. You know, you're an American citizen. Okay, fair enough. I don't know how you got that, but fair enough. Here's the thing. Are you an American citizen? Absolutely. But here's the thing. Not sure how you got that. Okay. Born here. Okay. Born here. And my my family lineage is settlers from the 1500s. So, I have some stake in in the claim here. Okay. A little different. But you're a descendant of immigrants. Settlers. Colonialists. Yeah. Colonial. You don't look very Native American to me. Native. I am Native American. Whites are Native Americans. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? Whites are Native Americans. Really? I I think what was happening before the 1500s I think you're getting confused with I don't mind going on a tangent what was happening before the 1500s calm down I think you're getting what was happening before the 1500s uh there was indigenous people here that came here from you know what indigenous means listen before indigenous people come from somewhere else why do you ask a question if you're going to interrupt I'm not sure if you know what the meaning of indigenous means I do know what it means means they came here first right they came here from Asia by way of landbridgeidge have an argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson or anybody else about that I don't care I genuinely don't care yes he is okay. My my point is my point is okay nothing to do with crime. So far you've agreed with me that these people you're derailing dude. I'm like I'm trying to literally sat down and ask me where I'm from. I think you derailed this conversation from the get by that. But I'm not offended. I'm just wondering what it has to do with crime. Always curious. We're going to talk about immigration. Don't worry. Later on you can come back. I hope so. Right now you're doing a very bad job of making the case that he's not pro crime. Got a round of applause. I probably get another one actually if I ask for it. So So I I don't think you get rounds of applause. You sit in a room with 20 people who agree with you. Wow. Amazing. Amazing. That must be this comes out. You know what? I'm actually 20 people who agree with you. Personally outraged right now. This is this is great. Do I have to say anything at this point or you just going to keep going? Please make make your claim. Well, my claim is that I don't care if it's pro crime. You want to go back to the topic of conversation? That's fine. We agree then crime. I have a question for you though. Do you care on the opposite side of the spectrum? Yes. Do you care about law being administered to the opposite side of the spectrum? I think anyone who assaults a police officer shouldn't be pardoned. I think that Donald Trump shouldn't have pardoned nine Republican members of Congress who were convicted of crimes. And I don't think Joe Biden should commit I don't think Democrats should pardon Democrats. Fair, but I don't think you understand where we are in the US. That I think I do. No, because you're arguing from the position of like an a US that doesn't exist anymore. We're headed towards So nihilism, no laws, nothing matters. Everyone's program. It's not about that. It's that conservatives for Listen, conservatives for too long have been playing it safe. They've been playing by the law. They've been playing by the law. Yes, they have. Maybe you missed the Bush presidency. Did you live here during the Bush years? Conservative conservatives are play by the law. George W. Bush, nor did Ronald Reagan. Let's be Let's be respectful to you. Let's let me I'm not sure you've been that respectful, but Okay. I'm trying to bring it back. So, let's both bring it back. Okay. I'm conservative. Okay. Really? Let me tell you this. We do play it too safe. We've been playing it by the book for too long. At this point, gloves are off, right? The left has made their point. They're willing to The police force in Washington. The left. Are you kidding me? The left. Are you are you in police officers? Look Okay, look at LA right here. You think those standown uh those standown You think the LAPD are a bunch of liberal Marxists? No, but I think they listen to liberal Marxists who tell them what to do. I I think they listen to who signs their paychecks at the end of the day. You're doing lots of little diversions. We both agree Donald Trump's prom. You're just fine with it. That's what you said so far. I don't agree with your I don't agree with your definition. What's your definition of crime? Stomping on a police officer's head is not a crime. That's your definition of crime as the Native American. I am Native American if you say so. So, going back to the topic at hand, we have different definitions of crime because you're talking about there's a criminal code in this country. It's called the US criminal code. You know what? Let's focus on what we agree on. I'm sure you and I actually agree on a lot. Do we agree that people shouldn't stomp on police officers heads? Can we agree on that? If you don't agree on that, then I really think this conversation is kind of No, because first of all, you're saying what? That the police have the authority that they're given the authority. I don't accept the authority that's been given by liberals conservative position. The conservative a pro police then you don't know what a real Hey, listen. You're juggernauts right now. I'm telling you right now, you are going to be blown open. If you think that we're going to struggle with the English language for the next couple hours, then what you're up against right now, okay? Yeah. News flash, the conservatives are liberal to me. Okay. Neocons, libertarians, all those mainstream people, there might as well be leftists to me. Okay, that's how far to the right I am. Do you understand my position? So when you say I kind of guessed it when you said that when you say uh you know about obeying police, why would I give the authority to police? Do you know do you know you're an American do you think Donald Trump should be pardoning nine members of Congress who committed financial crimes? Are you are you pro financial crime? You pro financial crime Timbo is pause. I think the people who clapped you have voted you out. All right, head back to your seat. You've been voted out by the majority. Nice to meet you. Hi there. Hi sir, how are you? Hey, so I'm going to be as respectful about this as possible, but the truth is your claim is completely bad faith. You do not care about being anti-rime. You yourself are pro crime. Your side is pro crime because you're a progressive. How am I proimer? So I'll give you an example, right? So your side, not Donald Trump, has passed a series of laws in California. Let's go with California. It's where we are right now. It's where I'm from. I don't Are you from California or Okay. So in California, for example, the state legislature, completely progressive, just passed a law that limits sex offender registration to 10 years. It was life before. That's proime. The legislature in California, which is progressives again, has passed a law that says the voter induced three strike law is no longer absolute. If someone attempt murders someone, stabs someone on three separate occasions, a judge now does not have to give them life. That's a progressive law. That is not that is proime. You support that, don't you? I actually don't support uh sex offenders coming off a list. I think they should be on for life. Okay. So, you disagree with you and so so hold on. You and I both agree that sex offending is a bad thing, especially child sex offending. Right. It seems like you and I agree on that. California doesn't. So, I'm not here to debate the legislative California. I'm here to debate Donald Trump being pro crime. And I'm saying I'm saying that Donald Trump was friends with Gileain Maxwell when Gileain Maxwell who's the worst child sex trafficker of our lifetime. She's serving over 20. Do you know Gain Maxwell? Yeah. She's actually not. Jeffrey Epste's the worst sex. He's dead. I'm talking about people are alive right now. It's interesting though you didn't use his name, right? Wouldn't he be the one who did this? Oh, great. Hey, I'm glad you brought up Jeffrey Epste. Jeffrey Epste before he died did an interview with Michael Wolf. He's on tape. I don't know if you've heard the tape. He says, "My closest friend was Donald Trump. I was his closest friend." Uh Elon Musk, I'm not sure if you've heard of him. He tweeted recently that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files. And Gileain Maxwell, who was the right-hand woman of Jeffrey Epstein, when she was on trial for child sex offending, which you and I are opposed to. Donald Trump stood up and said, "Good luck to her. I wish her well." So, yeah, that makes him pro crime and procriminal if he's being soft on child sex traffickers. Like Epste was friends. He was friends with Epste. You haven't seen the videos. They dance together, party together. He knows he's not supported the pedophilia part. The only people true. Trump gave a speech about 20 years ago where he said Epstein's a great guy. He loves young women. A lot of them are very young. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, laugh, laugh. So yeah, I think he's pro crime and pro criminals. I think Do you have any friends who are criminals? Not that I know of. Certainly not child sex offenders. No. Do you? If it came No, of course not. Okay. So, we're both in agreement again. If it came out tomorrow that one If it came out tomorrow that one of your friends was a child sex traff, you'd stop being friends with them. But I wouldn't say and then I'd go on TV and I would say, "Oh, look, Mr. Hassan was friends with this guy 10 years ago. Therefore, he's trial." Mr. Hassan said, "I wish them well when they're on trial." Wouldn't you ever have a go at me for that? You wish your well you wish your friend well on trial. Yeah. Child sex trafficker. Would you mean that? I wouldn't wish someone well, but that's your that's your gotcha. It's a pretty big wish. Pretty big gotcha. He praised what you're really trying to do right now. Is your Donald Trump says his name? What's his policy? You want to talk policies? So when he left office in 2020, he left behind the highest murder rate for over 100 years. He left behind the highest murder. That is the most bad faith claim you could possibly make. It's a fact from the CDC. You know what? Here's why it's bad faith. I'm Can I finish the sentence? And then you come back in. You're just lying to people. Donald Trump lying. Can I finish the sentence? Donald Trump does not cause the murder rate. Murder is a state level. That's hilarious. Gavin Newsome is more responsible for the murder rate than Donald Trump is. That's hilarious. So Donald Trump's not responsible murder rate, but other politicians who are Democrats because it's a state law. That's like saying no. That's No, I'll say Republicans are too. State governors who are soft on crime are the ones that are responsible. Who's doing the murdering? The murderers. So, aren't they responsible for Why did it go up on his watch? What? Why did it go up on his watch? He's very bad. That's fighting crime. That's a real hard one to figure out, right? We shut down the whole economy during COVID. We told everyone they couldn't go out unless it was to violently protest. We told people that if a cop tries to arrest you, that cop's probably going to get charged with murder. No, I think the pandemic had a lot to do with it. The pandemic didn't finish in 2020. What? The pandemic didn't finish in 2020. Why the murder rate? If we're going to play the one, you guys blame Joe Biden for crime for years. What? Joe Biden actively induces policies that are pro crime. I'm asking Donald Trump. Name the policy that's crime. I'll blame I've asked you for like 10 minutes. I'll name one right now. No, you haven't. You talked about California legislatores. Um he pardoned violent criminals. He then went on to commit other crimes. You don't think releasing violent crimes into pardon is a one time thing. What's his policy he has pushed? Name a law he has. No. A pardon is a one time thing is a policy is not one time thing. That's like Jimmy Carter pardon the draft. They want to dodge January 6 the pardon. I'm not judging that. Did you write a Jimmy Carter pardon? Does that mean his policy was support? Do you support Do you support the pardoning of people who went on to be prosecuted for sexually abusing a seven-year-old child, illegal gun possession, reckless homicide? There's more. See, there's more. He didn't pardon someone for sexually abusing a child someone for rebelling against the government that they believe had rigged elections. That's what he pardoned them for. He didn't pardon them for sexual child abuse. But they were criminals who committed those crimes. He let them out. So that means the crime rate goes up. Here's a You say they're criminals because they did the crime, right? Would you extend that to illegal immigrants that they're all criminals because they committed a crime? I have a feeling your position the Supreme Court Supreme Court we're going to talk about immigration someone who's illegally entered the United States not a criminal but someone capital is not according to Supreme Court of the United States the Supreme Court has said that anyone who enters the United States illegally and we can we can jump to Can I get the case? Can I get the case? Jump to You want to get the case the case the case site please for you said the Supreme Court the citation of the case. Yes. That entering the United States illegally is not a crime. It's called Arizona versus United States 2012. Go look it up. Pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. Hey, how's it going? How you doing, sir? Nice to meet you, M. Nice to meet you. Thank you for coming. I appreciate you. I really just more want to get an understanding. When you say procriminal, what do you mean? I mean that when confronted with people who've committed criminal acts, Donald Trump has been either soft on them, friendly with them, pardon them, and of course, let's not forget, I mean, we've got five minutes left. I'm surprised it hasn't come up earlier. He's a convicted criminal himself sitting in the White House. Okay. I want to make sure I understand you correctly because I don't want to straw man you. You're saying I appreciate that. Every time that he's been confronted, not every time. Don't say the words every time. Most times. A lot of the time. A lot of the times. He's leaned towards criminal activity. I didn't say criminal activity. He I mean he has committed crimes. He's been indicted for 88 different criminal offenses in four different jurisdictions by five different grand juries. He was convicted himself on 34 different criminal offenses by a jury of his peers. But let's part that for a moment. separate to his own crimes. When confronted with the crimes of others or the alleged crimes of others, for example, a Chinese crypto billionaire called Justin Sun who was being investigated for market manipulation, Trump dropped the case, invited him to the golf course, invited him to the White House $70 million in Trump's crypto. What I want to ask you, proime in my view, is it possible because remember the burden of proof's on you, right? You have to prove. Is it possible that all these these things that he's done that supposedly make him pro crime is there's another reason for the for the doing? There's other justification for example for let me let me give an example and then you can about it the J6 is it possible that he could have done this to unite the country to move past to go to a new chapter if it's even possible I think you would have to admit that there's another possibility therefore he's not pro crime at least possibility so let me agree and disagree with so I agree with you that the intent could be different I don't think Donald Trump was sitting there saying how can I increase the level of murders let me release some murderers I'm not saying he did that on January 6 I don't think he was trying to unite the country. That's where we disagree. That's [ __ ] In fact, he divided the country further. But intent doesn't really matter to my claim. If he's releasing violent criminals, wait in doesn't matter. No, he's pro- crime and pro criminal. No, but that's a big indictment to say pro crime. That means crime. I'm fronted. If Well, he is because for I gave him No, no, no. It could be possible. Sorry. Forgive me. Your friend earlier, your ally said, uh, where has he done stuff that's increased the crime? I'm telling you, people have been pardoned who have been convicted on multiple other crimes. These people who he pardoned had previous criminal records. They were not just some folks chilling around go, we're against the take over our country. We're opposed to rebellion. They were a lot of these people were already hardened criminals, militia members. He looked at those people and said, you know what, they've been convicted in many cases by Republican judges, but I'm going to let them out. Yeah, that makes Is it possible? And if Joe Biden had done it, you'd be attacking him. Sure. Is it possible that their conviction was part of a plea? It's like, "Oh [ __ ] I can't get out of this, so I got to take a plea deal." Some of them maybe, others, others we saw with our own lying eyes on tape, battering police officers. I mean, did you watch Did you watch live on January 6th? What happened? To be completely honest, I'm pretty novice on this. I'm more trying to target. You're saying he's pro crime in my head just thinking this live. Let me finish back for one second. If thinking this, there's a possibility that he might have had other reasons. For example, unifying the country next chapter, right? That that could be the reason. Therefore, it's not pro- crime. There was other reasons. I'm just saying that's a possibility. And if that's I'm saying it's a possibility, but I'm saying it's irrelevant because if you are releasing knowingly releasing violent criminals out into the community, pardoning, not just releasing, then yes, you are being procriminal. And I've interviewed police officers. I don't know about that. I've interviewed police officers who have been assaulted, beaten, had to retire from the police office, broken bones. Let me say that. I'll finish very quickly. I've interviewed these police officers. They've been beaten by people who they've then seen walk off the streets and then carry on threatening them. Yes. When Donald Trump is responsible for that, you're definitely pro crime. Okay. I I I doubt a lot of the sources, but you doubt police officers who testified to being assaulted. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. Thanks. Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you? Nice to meet you, Maddie. Um, so you claim that your main claim is that Trump pardoned some people from January 6. By the way, I was there. Um, I saw it all firsthand. Uh, about a football field away. There's smoke in my eyes, a bloodied. It was It was a crazy day. Were you convicted of any crimes? No, of course not, cuz I didn't enter the building. Um, you know, stayed very peaceful. Um, but your entire claim is that he pardons your bets basically. You keep bringing it up. All you do is bring it up. I'll mention Let me say this. I'm okay with his pardoning of Paul Walch who from his employees. You keep talking about nine former members of Congress. That's why he keeps pardoning criminals. That makes him You know who else pardoned? A big criminal. Go on. Hunter Biden was pardoned by his father. He did crack cocaine and he had hookers there, too. I'm with you all. I'm with you all. But then why don't you claim that Biden Why don't you claim that I think Joe Biden in that instant was programmed. He shouldn't have done it. Well, he was overall pro just because he did that. No, but Joe Biden didn't just So Joe So if it was just a pardon, then you'd be fine. But I already mentioned there's also the fact that Joe Biden wasn't actually convicted criminal in office. Trump has committed crimes. Trump hangs around with criminals. He spent much of the 80s hanging around with the New York mob. He hung around with Jeffrey Epste and Gileain Maxwell. Well, that whole that I can keep going. Jeffrey Epstein lived in West Palm Beach to the area and that's the closest golf course he go to. Do you think he's very paid? Do you think Donald Trump is as soon as Trump found out? Do you think Donald Trump is in the Epstein? No, I do not. And you're on. Let me explain. Let me explain this. Okay. He lived in the area in Mara Lago near Mara Lago. So he bought obviously uh ticket to go in there. As soon as Trump found out that Epstein had done all those bad things, immediate ban from immediate ban from Yes, it is. Yes, it is. In fact, Gile recruited some of the girls that were abused from Maraago. So um so listen to this. From Mara. That's pretty outrageous, right? Elon Musk tweeted that out in fit of rage. Okay. Do you really tell the truth when they're angry? The truth comes out when people are angry sometimes. So Cashel Cash Patel literally said that Elon Musk had no access to the Epstein files. So Cash Patel said that Epstein killed himself. Do you agree with that? Whatever he says goes then. Yeah, I don't I don't care. He knows more information than I do. A lot of magic. He knows more information than I do. But but here's here's the actual claim. Suddenly people are trying to vote you out because you said you agree with Cash Patel on Epstein. I he knows more information than I do. Pause. That's time. Please return to your seat. Good to meet you. Yeah. Take care. Surrounded is now a podcast available wherever you listen. Search Surrounded, plug in and stay part of the conversation. Anywhere, anytime. My next claim is that Donald Trump is defying the Constitution. Nice to meet you. Pleasure to meet you, sir. May lovely to meet you. So, I would say that with Trump being anti-constitution, I don't really care to be quite frankly because in regards in regards to the Constitution, the Constitution is a document that should seek to serve us. And when it fails to seek to serve us, that can be amended. Laws can be changed. And quite frankly, the fact is we're defending things in this country that shouldn't be defended. The First Amendment should not defend pornography and making children and women be victimized. making women and children be victimized as a result of that. I think things like blasphemy shouldn't be allowed per the first amendment. I think that quite frankly there are a lot of legal processes that are enabling criminals and bad people to fully enact their will in this country in the name of the constitution or following the constitution. So quite frankly, if Trump is anti-constitution, good. And I think he should go further. So this is this is wonderfully revealing of the modern conservative mindset. So I appreciate you spelling it out so openly. Um, just checking. Do you support the Second Amendment? I do. Okay. Surprise. I was shocked to hear that. Um, I'm saying that Donald Trump is defying the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the 14th Amendment. He's thinking of defying the 12th and 22nd amendments. You're saying you don't care about the Constitution, but actually you do because you quite like the Second Amendment. You just don't like the bits that you disagree with. Can I just be clear on that? Yeah, absolutely. I'm more than willing to I'm more than willing to amend it and and whenever it's in your favor. Yeah, absolutely. So, can Democrats do the same when they're in office? No, absolutely not. Because Democracy? No, I don't. Absolutely not. What do you believe in? Autocracy. By who? Honestly, quite frankly, anyone who is in line with Catholic teaching. Donald Trump is not Catholic. Of course, he's not. I completely agree. That's the problem. You don't support Trump. No, I don't. I didn't even vote for him. I wrote in like John Pork or someone. I can't even remember. Why did you vote if you don't believe in democracy and you want autocracy? Well, cuz quite frankly, I voted. I kind of voted just to I came with this argument, but I'm bored of my own argument. I'm much more interested in this. So, absolutely. How do we get to an autocracy? I think quite frankly that if we are able to enact local leaders, we by the way, I think quite frankly these farright conservatives sitting right around white people. Yeah, absolutely. So, I have quite some of the people in this room don't make the cut from what I can see visually. Actually, hold on for a moment. I do think that there are people who happen to not be white who do actually have history in this country and have roots in this country. For instance, from the Mexican-American War, we subsumed a lot of territory of people who have far stakes in this country who happen to be Hispanic or what have you. I'm for defending the traditional demographics of this country, which is majority white. I should stay that way. How does the United States I mean, we've gone so off topic, but how does the United States look like under your Sorry, what's your name? Um, uh, my name is, uh, well, my name's Connor. It's a pleasure to meet you. Took a little bit of a doubt there. I I I use a pseudonym online. Fair enough. How would Connor's America look? What would it look like? Well, quite frankly, I think we would deport people who shouldn't be here. I didn't ask deporting. What does the government look like? What's the government look like? I would say quite frankly, it's under a sort of benevolent leader such as, you know, h it could be a kind of aristocratic class. Could be someone who picks the autocrat. Frankly, the people. I mean, we could hold a vote on it. Kings. Isn't that democracy? Well, sure. You can have a vote to get to that state and then no more votes afterwards. Absolutely. 100%. Wow. And if that autocrat kills you and your family, you're fine with that. Well, I'm not I'm not going to be a part of the group that he kills because that's a whole thing. Autocrats tend to kill everyone makes this point very well in his work. It's the friend enemy distinction, right? You call the Nazi theoretician. Absolutely. I don't care. Are you a fan of the Nazis? I don't I frankly don't care being called the Nazi. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I said, "Are you a fan of the Nazis?" Well, they persecuted the church a little bit. I'm not a fan of that. But what about the persecution of the Jews? Well, I mean, I I certainly don't support anyone's human dignity being assaulted. I'm a Catholic, but you don't condemn Nazi persecution of the Jews. I I think that there was a little bit of persecution rename this show because you're a little bit more than a farright Republican. Hey, what can I say? I think you can say I'm a fascist. Yeah, I am. Two. Absolutely. I'm just checking who's clapping just to get my set of where everyone is on this because you know that millions of people are going to be watching you on YouTube and checking out who the fascists and the Nazis are. I'm I'm not ashamed of that whatsoever. During the pre during the pre-war period, prior to World War II, it was only those parties that properly enacted the people's will. That's why they won. The conservatives were fat cats in Are you in favor of killing people who aren't like you? Quite frankly, I'm not You mentioned Franco earlier. Franco killed a lot of innocent people. Oh, well, he killed communists. He killed people who raped nuns and killed priests. What about children who he killed and women who he killed? What are you talking about? He never killed any women or children. He was captive. He only killed combatants. Is that what you're claim? Yeah, he only killed combatants killed any white the white terror was only punishing those people who did acts of terrorism. And again, are you supporting like raping innocent women? Nuns, dude, killing priests. I mean, priests don't brandish guns and killed. You just refuse to condemn the Nazi Holocaust, my friend. I don't think you're in a position to ask anyone any questions. I I quite frankly don't care what you think about me. If if I'm a Nazi and being a Nazi is mutual and being a Nazi means upholding human dignity because I even believe in your dignity. I don't in a state that I was running I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to hurt you or anything like that. But quite frankly, I don't debate fascists. Okay. So, do you do you concede then? I mean, why do I concede you're a fascist who won't condemn the Nazis? Yes, I concede that. Okay, great. So, I I I mean, what are we doing here? Cuz I mean, you just seem you just seem offended to be quite frankly like I'm offended by people who can't condemn the Nazis. Yes, I am. Okay. Well, I I condemn the evils that they did, but I don't really care about being Yeah, sure. I don't care though about being called a Nazi is the whole thing. I never called you a Nazi, a fascist, and a General Franco. Yeah, I am a General Franco supporter. He was awesome. He was so super cool quite frankly because the whole thing And you don't believe in democracy. I don't believe in democracy. What are you doing here at a televised debate? This is democracy. I want a debate. It is the means to support an end. The reason we have free speech now is because we want to be openly talking about our opinions so we can get the state that we want. But it doesn't mean free speech after we win. Again, I mentioned the only good thing about this fascist moment. The whole reason is that you guys are so open about it. The whole reason the whole reason I mentioned Carl Schmidt earlier and you kind of blew past him is the friend enemy distinction. because even liberals when they take power, they want to enact policies and they want to act enact protections for their people and their ideas and they're willing to punish their enemy. And so I'm the same way. I'm like, "Hey, if you're going to punish me, I'm going to get in power and I'm going to frankly punish you when you try to leverage power against me." Just that simple. I'm not sure what you would have said. Hey, it is what it is. All right, pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seats. It's a pleasure to meet you, sir. I can't say the same, but uh thank you. Good to meet you, Mandy. Good to meet you, sir. All right. So, I kind of want to start at the basics or the foundation. I want to see Can I just check? Are you a fascist? No. Okay. I I don't I describe myself as I think just a Christian. I'm a fair I'm a devout Christian. Good to hear. So, um I want to start like what is your connection to the Constitution and why why do you love it so much? Like what what makes it so important that Trump would defy something like the Constitution to you personally? Great questions. Uh my first connection is I'm an American citizen. I naturalized American citizen. Took a pledge uh to this country to the Constitution. Uh, as a previous uh, speaker has said, constitution is not perfect. A lot of things I don't like about it. I don't like the second amendment. Um, there's various amendments. I don't like the way the Senate is set up. I'm sure there's things you don't like about the Constitution. The difference is, I don't think you can just illegally defy the Constitution. I don't think each and every one of us can make up whatever we want. Certainly presidents who are elected with an oath, right? Donald Trump took an oath to preserve, protect, defend the Constitution. And now when he's asked on television, "Isn't it your job to uphold the Constitution?" He said on NBC, "I don't know." which goes against his oath. And I'm identifying specific amendments where he is violated. He's only six months into his presidency, defying the first amendment, the fourth amendment, the fifth amendment, the 14th amendment. He wants to defy the 22nd amendment and be president for a third term. Um, this is the problem we have right now. Free speech is under assault. The free press is under assault. Due process is under assault. Uh, the right to be in your home and not be invaded by federal agents, the Fourth Amendment is under assault. So, that for me is a problem. Okay. Well, I'd like to start to say I really don't find the Constitution that important. I find it to be like a 300-year-old document. And it was created to defy the country that subjugated your ancestors in India. And then your parents probably moved from India to Britain. And then you moved here to tell us that we should listen to a piece of paper that you were never even connected to to begin with. So, I want to say like if I don't care about it, why do you care about it so much? How do you run a country without any kind of laws or due process? And by the way, you do care about it because without the First Amendment, you wouldn't be sitting here. Well, I agree with the First Amendment and I think So, do you agree with Donald Trump's crackdown on the First Amendment? He's he's imprisoning people for their speech. He's crack he's he's threatening free speech media organizations. He's threatening peaceable assembly. These are all rights under the First Amendment. Why aren't you bothered by that as a conservative who claims to love the First Amendment? So, I actually I don't like the First Amendment. And I like free speech. Okay. The first amendment is what guarantees free speech. I'm from the UK, by the way. I'm from the UK, which is a democracy. We don't have the first amendment. No, that's one of the things I do like about the constitution. I wish the UK did have a first amendment. I'm a journalist. People arrested for praying outside abortion clinics and stuff like that, right? So So you're you're opposed to people being arrested for speech crimes. I It depends what it is. If it's like the people So you're like one of the previous speakers. You don't As long as it's someone who agrees with you, you don't mind the support. Either we consistently support principles or free speech 100%. I don't think anyone. So, do you think Donald Trump is defying the Constitution by cracking down on the First Amendment? Um, so I think he's cracking down on free speech like the deportation of Mahmood Khalil, who's uh who was just released from prison by a judge saying his first amendment rights were violating. And I and I agree with the judge and I disagree with Trump deporting them. But I think that's more a matter of free speech and not the constitution. I think that's pedentary at this moment. I think you've conceded that he is cracking down on free speech which is the first amendment. So he is defying the constitution. So it's pleasure to be in agreement with you, sir. All right. Pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to the Thank you very much. How you sir? I'm Medi. Medie. Great to meet you. My name is Kai. Do you believe that the Constitution is important and good overall? Yes. Do you believe that that constitution can be eroded through democratic processes? What do you mean by erode? the original intention of the Constitution being destroyed through a purely, you know, democratic or legal process. I'm not sure I agree with that. Okay. I think if you're democratically amending the Constitution per the rules of the Constitution, that's fine. If we could find a constitutional way to get rid of the Second Amendment, I'd be pro that. So, let's let's pose a hypothetical where in the entire population of the United States has drastically changed. Yes. And the population now um has completely different intentions about what to do with the country. Let's say it wants to give it all back to Mexico, dismantling the United States of America. If that's the case, then what's the use of the Constitution? It hasn't defended the country. In fact, it's allowed for its destruction. I don't understand the premise. How did the whole country change? Demographic replacement, mass migration. I mean, we're we're seeing a change in demographics. And there there's What is the I do want to talk about immigration today. We talk about everyone's itching in this group to get immigration. I've saved it. I've saved it for you all. But given we're on the sense of the Constitution and you asked a question, what is the proportion of immigrants in this country? um what proportion of the population is is foreignb born. It's it's very difficult to measure because the actual projections of the number have been changing more rapidly. What is currently the best estimate? I think it was about 15% just under 15% which is by the way which is more actually than the original estimate was. So 15% of the people are going to change the country, change the constitution. How's that going? It's actually a nightmare. As someone who wants to amend the constitution and get rid of things like the the ridiculous way the senate is set up or the second amendment on guns or various other things, it's really hard to change the constitution. They made it imposs almost impossible. You know, the last time we had a constitutional amendment like 20 30 years ago, it was I think members of Congress pays. Where are you getting this scenario where 350 odd million people all become foreignb born migrants or the children of migrants immediate migrants even though America is a nation of migrants and then abandon the constitution and give the country back to Mexico outside of your imagination where is that happening let's well let's bring it back to the actual discussion what you did is you you entertain my hypothetical but then instead of sticking to the point of the constitution you said well how would you bring about your hypothetical and then when I because you missed out the part where the constitution is quite hard to change hold on I understand that I gave you I also wanted to a sense of where you are and you're a great replacement guy. So that's fine. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And you're a real good journalist because you don't talk to people who identify as like a political ideology. I mean that's that's a liberal I don't debate fascists. I'll talk to them. Frankly Frankly that's upsetting. I think there's a big problem when you know we value freedom of speech so much but any you know real journalist is not going to talk to somebody because they identify with the politically incorrect ideology. Just talk to the guy in front of you. What are you talking about? You literally stop talking to him and then debating versus talking is very different. It's pointless. He doesn't He doesn't believe in free speech. He doesn't believe in democracy. He was freely speaking with you. You're the one. No, he said very clearly. He said, "I support free speech so that I can get one election. After one election, my guy comes in and after my guy comes in, nobody gets to speak or vote again. Listen to your debate that we listen to your conversation. Let's remind you what it was said because you just back to the Constitution." Please do. First, fourth, fifth, 14th amendments. Those are the ones I'm saying Trump is defying. Do you support that or do you dy them? I believe that the constitution is valuable because it represents particular interests of the founding stock of Americans who made this country great. Do you think due process is important? Some would say that's at the very core of American constitution amendment. And what I think makes the constitution uh function what allows it to save this country and to actually make it work are the people who are I'm not sure where you're going with this. Hold on. Hold on. I'll show you the constitution. That's my claim. You can have these weird hypothetical. We're taking it into a different meta which is what's the function of the constitution. I'd rather not have your You already did. You already did it just 5 minutes ago when you took it to immigration. Okay, let's bring it back. I want to bring it back to the first, the fourth, the fifth, and the 14th amendments and the 22nd amendments. Either you say Hold on. You got you got two very good positions here. One is to say I don't think he's defying them and I'll say why you're wrong. Or you say I don't care that he's defying them as one of your colleagues said in which case I don't know where this conversation goes because you don't believe in democracy. That's fair. Do you think it's wrong to dismantle the Constitution? So there are two options ahead of you. Do you agree? This is important. Do you agree? So, is Donald Trump okay? Let me ask a question back since you're asking me questions. You're not answering the basic point. Do you think Donald Trump is dismantling the constitution? Can we agree that Donald Trump is dismantled? Because I'll agree with you on that. I think he is dismantling the constitution. I think he's illegally unconstitutionally interpreting it in ways that are that are more judges do not agree with him on. Okay, which the Supreme Court has not agreed with them on and and the judges don't agree with the people who wrote the Constitution. How do you know that? Okay, let's take your example of the Second Amendment. Let's say that a bunch of I didn't give the Second Amendment. No, first fourth. You don't want to talk about the ones I've given. You're interrupting them. You're interrupting me. You're ignoring me. First, fourth, fifth, 14th, 22nd amendments. Those are my amendments that I came with today. If you don't want to debate them, just say so. I'm trying to understand your ideology. You believe that dismantling the constitution is when it's about parts of the constitution that you would be fine getting rid of the second amendment even though that would be a dismantling of the constitution. No, because it would be done via constitutional means. I'm not the one sitting here like your pal. You have agreed. You have agreed the constitution. saying you just get rid of them willy-nilly. I don't ramping up. I don't agree that Joe Biden should come in and say by executive order, if Joe Biden put out executive order saying amendment no longer applies, I can round up everyone's guns. I don't agree with that. Your result is exactly I don't agree with them. No, but I don't agree with the method of doing it. It's unconstitutional. He would have been defying the Constitution and I would have said so, but you can't bring yourself to say so. We've been sitting here for several minutes. All of your friends have seen me ask you several times, do you agree that Donald Trump is defining the first, fourth, fifth, 14th, and possibly 22nd amendments? You're you're admitted. I understand you came in here. What you are attempting to do is simply frame this conversation like you did with the first claim about Donald Trump. But then when anybody asks you any kind of question that presses you to the least degree, I answered I said I would dispense constitution, but I would do it constitutionally, not by executive order. So, what I'm trying to get to is to prove to everybody who's watching that what you care about is not the Constitution in what it represents or creates. You care about the Constitution only in so far as it allows you to achieve your political worldview. We agree on that. I care about the Constitution because I don't think presidents should be fascist dictators and violate the Constitution. That's what I'm saying. And he is I don't think the president should have the power to lock you and me up if we write an op-ed that he doesn't like. I don't think the president should be able to crack down on us if you and I decide to go protest outside his parade. I don't think the president should be able to deprive you and I of due process or come into our homes without a worry. Well, let's an agreement then. All right, pause. You've been voted out agreement. It's good to meet you. Good to meet you, Kai. Hey, how are you? I'm Eddie. Hi, I'm Jessica. Nice to meet you. How are you? So Trump is defying the first, fourth, fifth, and 14th and maybe the 22nd soon. Okay. So I want to focus on the first. Okay. And the fifth. Okay. So you say that Trump is defying the first amendment. Can you give me an example? Uh for example, he banned the Associated Press from attending White House events. A Trump appointed judge said that was against the First Amendment. He's been cracking down on media organizations he doesn't like over their speech. If they say stuff he doesn't like, he for example, cracking down how? So for example, he banned the Associated Press from attending White House events because they said it's the Gulf of Mexico. That's not how it works. They were already at the White House. He deprived them for access. So he punished them for their speech, which is why the press, which is why a judge he appointed, Trevor McFaden, said this was contrary to the first amendment, a Trump appointed judge. Uh he's called MSNBC and CNN illegal. Media organizations are not ipso, but that's free speech. He can call them whatever they want. Attacking the media by the president as the executive. Yeah, he can say whatever he wants. That's that's literally the first amendment. He can say whatever he wants. Absolutely. But the media can't say what they want. They they do. But he's going after them. He's suing them. He's using lawsuits to crack down on the press. President have not done that before. They used to give him 34 felonies that Hillary Clinton did. No media gave him a lawsuit. No, but people on the Democratic side. We're not talking about the Democrats. Okay. So, he can call them whatever he wants because that's the freedom of speech. He can even He's threatened to imprison reporters. He absolutely. He wants to imprison. He said reporters should go to prison for reporting. He threatened some of them with prison rape. Right. That is against the first amendment. Um, he Okay. How is that against the First Amendment? You don't think sending reporters to prison for reporting that he doesn't lie? Did he do that? He wanted to. He said so. I would like them to. I would really like to. So people other people stopped him doesn't mean he's not defying the Constitution. He also said if you turn up, excuse me, he can want to do something. That doesn't mean he will or he can. And I think he's very Well, I've already given an example of something he did do to the Associated Press, but Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, the Associated Press and allowed in the Oval Office, which is his office, that's his executive space. Okay. And they are allowed in the press room just like CNN, just like the Guardian, which he thinks are illegal media organizations. He can think he calls the media the enemies of the people. You called him a fascist. Yeah, you can say whatever you want. But the president is I'm not the I'm not the president of United States with the executive power to crack down on the media. Only applies to the citizens, but not the president. I never said that. In fact, Donald Trump runs his mouth more than anyone. Absolutely he does. And he doesn't just say stuff. As I said, he actually does stuff. He actually does crack down. For example, you fifth amendment. Yes. Due process. Yes. Judges have actually said you have violated due process. Yes. Except for except for people kind of forget the Clinton the 1996 um immigration reform act where you can you can get limited due process when you have expedited American citizens. No. What about American citizens? Who's getting deported? That's American. Two American children have been deported multiple this year. Have you not? Oh, no. No, no. Their parents have been deported and their parents say the father was my baby. No. Was mom legal? We don't know because they didn't they didn't go to court. And the judge I have to go to court. That's not a part of the due process. Are you a lawyer? I'm very aware of it. Are you a lawyer? Do I have to be? Oh. Oh. We're making an argument from We're making It's a simple question. Are you a lawyer? Okay. We're making an argument. I'll take that as a no. A Trumpappointed judge in the case, not some Marxist lefty judge as you people like to call them. A Trumpapp appointed conservative judge said you cannot, it is illegal and unconstitutional to expel or deport an American citizen without meaningful process. He said that in April. So that was an act that Trump did. It wasn't speech. He got rid of an American citizen from the country without process. That's the fifth amendment violation. Since I'm not up to date on that specific, I'm sure you can. So well, you weren't aware that American citizens are being deported. It's a pretty big story. Maybe if you read the fake news, you might know. What? If you read the fake news, you might know what's going on. A lot of American citizens. How would I know what's going on if I read fake news? I don't watch CNN or Rachel Matto. Sorry. That's why you don't know that your fellow citizens have been deported this year. My fellow citizens. Are they not American citizens have been deported? Okay. When a child goes with their All right, guys. That's time. Please return to your seat. Nice to meet you. Hey, before we go any further, we want to take a moment to say thanks so much to Straight Air News for powering the fact checks in this video. Straight Air News is on a mission to raise the bar on journalism in a time of media bias and mistrust. Straighter News helps you quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news, allowing you to dive deep into the topics that matter to you and the world around you. Their work is trying to break the bias bubble, helping you understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so you get a full picture of the news. That's why we're so happy to be partnering with Straight Arrow News. They deliver the facts, unbiased, balanced, and designed to make sense of a complex world, getting you the clarity you deserve and news you can trust. Go to s.com/surrounded or click the link in the description to check it out. By clicking that link, you're not just supporting this channel, you also take advantage of a better way to get the news. Welcome back to Trustworthy Journalism. Thanks again to Straight Arrow News for partnering with us on this episode. Now, let's get into it. My next claim is that immigrants overall are good for America. Oh no, you beat me. Hi, how are you? Hello, nice to meet you. Um, so in regards to your claim, I just want to start by asking this. Do you care more about helping Americans or immigrants in this in this claim? Immigrants are Americans. I'm an immigrant and an American. Well, immigrants are not Americans. Americans are the people that were born here. That's not true. Where' you get what's the basis of your claim for that? Are you talking about people that get naturalized in the process of becoming American? 14th amendment. Have you read it? Okay. Yes, I have. Citizenship clause. It says any persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens of the United States. I'm aware of that. There's about 40 to 50 million naturalized Americans in this country. Yes. But you didn't seem aware of it because you said Americans versus immigrants. So, but are you understanding that the process of um getting all these immigrants that come in here for we've been also the millions of immigrants. It's up to the millions. is the last 20 years now and it has dramatically affected Americans here in the country which positively I would argue people like me and everyone around here we cannot find homes or even get jobs within our own fields that we go to college for that we get into debt for um and because um more bluecollar work especially in construction um agriculture and so forth and the hospitality industry we cannot get jobs in those fields so it requires are you looking for a job in construction no I went to college many people here are in college or went to college or we can't even find jobs in our fields also because of the H1B visa program as well. But in regards of just your claim about immigrants specifically, we cannot even get jobs to pay for housing. Unemployment is at a record low right now, even under Donald Trump, and I'm not a Donald Trump fan, but I would say unemployment under both Biden and Trump has been at record low levels. Okay. Is this in regards for American citizens? Yes. Okay. Okay. Um well, I'm unaware of that statistic, but from what I see, u from I'm an immigrant and an American, and I employ many American citizens, both naturalized and the ones born here. I employ my parents. No, my parents came Americans as defined by you. My parents came as immigrants to become naturalized. So I'm not necessarily opposed to immigrants. So you're the child of immigrants. Correct. I'm a child of immigrants. I was born. But you don't accept that immigrants are Americans. Not at this moment. So your parents are not Americans. Not at this moment. Hold on. Your parents are citizens. They became naturalized. You just said you can't be citizens by being naturalized. No, I was born here. And I'm not opposed to naturalization. I'm against naturalization. Are your Are you against naturalization? No, I never said I was against naturalization. You began You're very Everyone was here. They can they can play it back on YouTube. You said im Americans or immigrants. Are your parents Americans or immigrants? No, my parents are are United States citizens. But they are immigrants. You said no. They came here as immigrants. However, behind the claim that we came I came here as an immigrant. I'm an immigrant at this point. When they came the happy with the way this is going for you. The United States economy was not at um it's better now. The American economy is is better than it's been for many years. I can say that as someone who doesn't like Donald Trump. What statistics are you saying? Billions of dollars of minority of minorities as well as um the reason the economy is doing badly now because Donald Trump's tariff policy has nothing to do with migrants. In fact, the congressional start businesses I'm an immigrant. I started a business. In fact, I understand because the government is giving people billions. I didn't take any loans. I didn't take any loans. I'm not saying you did, but I'm saying statistically speaking, they're giving billions of loans. So, should we do statistics? According to statistics, immigrants are 80% more likely to be entrepreneurs than native born Americans are more likely to start businesses. and hire Americans, right? Immigrants are more likely to pay in taxes than take out in benefits. They're more likely to add to innovation and jobs and wages. This is what the statistics show. The Congressional Budget Office, let me just finish my point and let you come back in. The Congressional Budget Office, which is bipartisan, Republicans and Democrats both use it. They have said that the immigration surge that you mentioned will lead to an extra $9 trillion of GDP over the next 10 years. That amounts to $65,000 per American household. That's $65,000 for each and every one of you holding up a red flag. Okay, I understand. All right, pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Hey, how's it going? I'm Eddie. What's going on, man? Nice to meet you. All right, so first before I start, I need to know what you mean by good. I can talk about the economy. I can talk about culture. I can talk about all those things. I need to know what you mean. All of them. I'm I'm saying immigrants are good for the economy. They're good for wages are the econom society. Where's the lower wages? What do you mean where's the lower wages? Where are the low wages? What's the basis for saying there are lower wages? Sure. So, you can look at like the STEM industry. It's been in like a complete and total recession. Uh there's been tons of studies like from the Economic Policy Institute that shows that like uh companies like Tesla, uh companies from like Silicon Valley. They engaged in mass firing of workers around 35,000, but then they hired around 12,000 H1B visas. And it's kind of just like just standard economic thinking. If you It's not standard economic thinking. The vast majority of economists and economic studies suggest that there is a negligible if if no impact on wages over time from immigrants. In fact, your colleague mentioned earlier construction there is actually evidence in construction. Yes. But in some industries, in some areas there is an impact, but overall no. In fact, an a study from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that migrants since 1965 have raised wages and raised innovation. National Bureau of Economic Research. No, that No, hold on. That's where you publish studies. I'm actually I didn't memorize the names of the authors. I know you did. Right. You give me the authors. You've got Yeah, hold on. The study you're talking about is from Giovanni Perry and what he did is he didn't account for aggregation issues nor did he the vast majority of studies let me speak please yeah thank you right so listen he didn't account for aggregation issues right and when you look at like the spatial approach was what all these economists use you're not accounting for the fact that when immigrants come into an area natives leave if you look at an occupational approach where you look at look at the specific firms that immigration's going into like Kim ETA 2013 did you find a net negative impact when there's a 10% increase of immigration you find around a.5% decline in wages when it comes to specific occupations they're going to. So all your studies are so so 5% weigh that up against what I just mentioned from the Congressional Budget Office which is a massive boost in GDP per head which you're not counting for massive increase in tax revenue. Immigrants actually funding funding the deficits and debts by paying way more in taxes proportionately including undocumented. And what's interesting about wages is I'm in a room full of I don't know what to call you anymore. Conservatives, Republicans, fascists, I don't know. Uh one of you is proudly said that correct. One of us proudly Oh yeah, correct. I'm in a room full of correct people, but do any of you actually care about wages? Because for example, do you support raising the minimum wage? Absolutely. And you can't do that when you're bringing all these people coming in. That's not the reason the Republican party blocks the better wage. You think Republican politicians don't vote for an increase in minimum wage because they're worried about immigration Republicans? Did I say vote Republicans? Well, I'm going to show that was called 25 farright Republicans. Doesn't mean I'm going to support every single Republican candidate. So, you and I good. So, you and I, you and I, let's agree. We both support raising the minimum wage. % $725 since 2009. It's lost 30% of its value. If you care about wages, we should be raising the minimum wage in this country. Not scapegoating migrants who aren't the cause of low wage in the country. You know who's causing low wages? Billionaires, millionaires, people who won't pay fair wages to their wages regardless of whether you are an immigrant or a nation. Get the monologue right now. Let me respond. You had one. You had one study that had a.5% impact. Go. Yeah. And your study like sucked that you didn't even know who wrote it, right? So, like let's get back to the point because I don't need it again. Yeah. The majority of studies say that wages are not impacted by the majority of your studies are flawed. That's what I'm telling you. My studies, neither of us are economists. It's the economist. Don't assume who I am. Are you economist? I could be. But are you? I could be. Are you? I'm not going to tell you. Are you? Uh, I'm going to major in economics, right? Are you an economist? Uh, no. Not right now. Okay. So, when I said neither is economist, I was correct to use your favorite word. See here, dude. This is nothing of substance. Look at the red flags. They're coming up. Let me get to the point. So when you talk about the when you talk about the CBO, one thing you're not accounting for here is that they're assuming an equilibrium, right? Do you know what that means? You shouldn't make these type of assumptions. You said earlier that unemployment I know what it means. I thought we were not doing assumptions. Okay, hold on. You mentioned we were like at like 4.2 percentage unemployment. Yeah, that's counting people who have part-time jobs. That's counting poverty wages. Yeah, I'm against poverty wages. We agree again. Yes. If you look if you go to like the Lwood Institute, they calculated a way where it's like functional unemployment. Okay. If you account for things like just people who make around $25,000 a year, people who have fallen out of the labor market, people who only work part-time, if you put if you count all of those people together and then add on the unemployment, that's around 25% of the population. So when you go, we don't have jobs. We don't have people to do this, this, and that, and the other. No. Yes, we do. Okay? We don't have a labor shortage. We have a good job shortage. And when you keep bringing these people in and they're taking those jobs, the good job shortage is the fault of big firms, employees. I'm an employee. I can say that. Who hires the immigrants? Who hires the immigrants? Yeah. Employers. Exactly. So when you bring up these big firms, let me ask you question, right? So let me ask you a question. If you got rid of all immigrants coming in tomorrow, moratorium, you think that you think that Republicans and uh employers of big firms would suddenly raise all the wages. What I said, you know, it was a complete pit of your ankles. You pivoted the hell conversation. Is that what you do? You believe that wages I'm just wondering how naive you are. believe that the 1% will raise wages and the federal wage stop immigration. They will be forced to when you increase labor's relationship to capital. Okay. And you give labor more bargaining power because you're tightening understanding of economics because you're explain I'm wrong. I'm tell you how you're wrong because you're ignoring the fact that when immigrants come into an area they spend money. They create jobs of their monthly income leaves. They spend they that's a good thing also because you don't like US aid foreign aid. So this is the point. They create jobs into this country. So far, every one of my assumptions about you has been correct. But listen to me. I am an immigrant. I'm speaking from personal experience. I don't even like I should get the hell out. Why? I don't want you here. Why? Cuz you come here and say all this [ __ ] about how Americans are lazy. You push your left. I never said Americans are lazy. I don't know why you say this. I never said Americans are lazy. You come to this country so they can do jobs that we don't want to do. When did I say when did I say it? YouTube. Guys watching on YouTube, rewind to the time where I said immigrants are doing jobs we don't want to do. When did I say those words? Words never came out of my mouth. Why do we have to bring in immigrants? Why do we have to bring in immigrants to the country if we have people who are going to do the jobs? Pause. Pause. You've been voted out. It's nice talking to you. Nice talking to you. You're going to have to go. Nice talking to you. You're going to have to go, bro. Is what he said as I left to an American citizen. Good. Good to know where you stand on immigration. It's not about immigration, is it? That's what it's not about. Hey, how you doing? Nice to meet you. Good to see you. How are you? Not bad. So what type of immigrants are we talking about? What do you mean? Like any immigrants or are that's why I said immigrants illegal immigrants. Undocumented immigrants also contribute greatly to the US. I I say undocumented. I don't think people are illegal. So let's put it this way. I mean I'm an immigrant too from Iran. Okay. There isn't even a US. How do you feel about the fact that people here want you out? Are you okay with that? I'm here to debate you, not debate them. I mean you're all on the same side. You're part of one group. No, you've been clapping each other. No, I mean there are conservatives here. There are far right people here. There are Republicans here. How do you feel about that guy wanting me and you to leave? But you know, let's I'm just wondering this is the topic of immigration. It's not about my feelings towards them. It's about staying on this topic. Immigrants are good for America. Yeah. You and me, we're good for America and the guy over there wants us to leave. So I'm just wondering how you feel about that. So I believe that there has to be strict immigration laws. We have to make sure that the people are coming here have the good intent of the United States in mind. That's not my claim, but okay. So, my claim is about immigrants are net positive. If you just open our borders to every single person that wants to be here, you know, that that claims that they have economical hardship in their country. Who's calling for open borders? No, I'm I'm just saying, you know, I mean, it's a straw man. So, you're just saying a straw man. No, I'm I'm saying you're wasting time with the straw man. No one's calling for open borders. I didn't call for you. I said immigrants. Who you wasted time trying to cause division between me and my division? He wants you to leave the country. That's a pretty big deal. I mean, you can ignore it, but that's your side, my Like I said, you were the one that tried to derail this argument. But by bringing that it's to my argument. I'm saying immigrants are good to America. People on your side are saying we should leave. Not me. And I asked you what type of immigrants are we talking about? Are we talking immigrants overall? Overall overall. So I mean you want to get into you want me to get into like particular communities. I'm not I'm not playing that game. So you believe that people that come here without help society without any respect to our laws and our border, you know, are going to be good for this country? No, of course not. So you can't say that all immigrants overall. I never said all immigrants. I said immigrants overall. Immigrants overall doesn't mean all immigrants. Sorry to break that to you. All right. So So we have to make sure that the people are coming here have the good intent of this country in mind. Agreed. I agreed. Yes. Irrelevant to my claim. But when you have undocumented immigration going on, you can't vet that. You can't make sure about that. Let me real quick, you know, talk about, you know, my background. There is no Iran American embassy in Iran. So to in order to come here, you have to stay in line for four years and you have to go through some some serious vetting procedure to get here. But I made it and that that process has to be in place because I mean you don't want terrorists. I made it too. I'm an American citizen. I went through lots of vetting. I took my test and that's how there wants us to leave. But but but he wants us to leave. So people don't really care about vetting, do they? It's not really about vetting, is it, my friends? People should not have the right people should not have the right to ignore our borders and our laws. What about those of who don't ignore the borders? Should we get to stay? Of course. I mean, and he says we shouldn't. Well, I'm not debating him. You We kind of You kind of are because you're all together on this. No, I'm debating you. Okay. And I'm pointing out to you that your argument is in bad faith cuz these guys are actually speaking the truth and you're in denial about who's on your side. He wants you gone. I I I never claim that I'm on their side or they're on my side. I'm here to debate you. All right. Pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to Nice to meet you. Hey, how you doing? I'm Eddie. Edward, nice. Nice to meet you. The question is, immigration is good for America, right? Overall, if you look at the net positives to things like our society, our culture, our food, our economy, our general diversity. I know the dword is a bad word. In places like this, I think immigrants have been a net positive. I think if you look at your everyday lives, we all benefit from immigration. And what kind of conservatives disagree with that? some of the some of the guys who told me to leave this place and go back to, you know, not I'm not a citizen. Do you think all conservatives? No. Oh, no. In fact, Ronald Reagan, who is a president I wasn't a big fan of until Donald Trump came along. Now, people like Reagan look good in comparison. Reagan said in 1986, "Our country is a nation of immigrants. Our immigrant heritage is our strength." He gave an amnesty to 3 million undocumented migrants. He understood the value of immigration. So, I'm with Reagan. Although, this guy is putting his thumb down there. So, Reagan's not popular in right-wing crowds these days. Yeah. Well, he's popular with me. good too. Uh I'm a deferred action of childhood arrivals. I'm actually I was an illegal immigrant myself. I came here when I was 10. I'm what you would call a legal Elliot now. I didn't have any any say on my parents, you know, choices. Yes. Do I think that they were well-meaning by wanting to bring me over for a better future? Absolutely. I believe that. Yeah. Did they break the law? Yes. Do I agree with people breaking the law? Not necessarily. Do I think that there's ever a situation where you can break the law for the better or the greater good? You know, it immigration is a it's an interesting issue because I do agree with you that good to hear. Everyone is a an immigrant in the sense. Can you tell me a little bit more about your journey? I've been here 10 years. I'm a proud American citizen. I'm a dual national. I'm British. I'm American. And I I am an immigrant who's contributing to this country. So yes, uh I'm very much proud of America's immigrant heritage. I'm part of it. And despite what uh one of the other people said on this show earlier, yeah, everyone here, unless you're Native American, representative of immigrants. Sorry, you've been voted out. Please return to your seat. Thank you, man. Nice to meet you. How's it going? Hey, how's it going? Actually a fan. I see you a lot on Pierce Morgan. Okay. Thank you for watching. Yeah. So, um my argument so is that uh Americans are what like what is a nation? A nation is a geographical location full of people who have some things in common. So, I think some of the things typically in history are going to be like race, religion, ethnicity, um language. These are some of the things that we have to have um in common in order to actually have a functioning civilization, especially in self-government. I'm not necessarily a giant fan of self-government. I'm a Catholic nationalist. I'm not a fascist. You have to have at least some things in common in order to actually have a civilization. And the immigrants, especially illegal immigrants that come into this country now, uh, disrespect us. They hate everything that we believe. They don't even speak our language. I watched, after Trump got elected, I watched an interview of an illegal alien woman crying and about getting deported. And the entire interview was in Spanish. That is a spit in the face. It's disrespect. They don't care about us. They abuse our system. And teological argument into just a bunch of series of wild unsubstantiated claims asking you what is I don't accept any of those claims that they hate everything we stand for and I don't accept well I'm not going to deal with your tell I'm going to deal with the false claims that you made there's no b what's your basis for saying that all immigrants or all undocumented immigrants hate everything we stand for it's funny that you said you're a Catholic national how did most Catholics get to America Irish Catholics Italian Catholics immigration much of the people coming across the southern border are Catholics are Catholics so it's really funny that you say you're a Catholic But Catholics came to America via immigration. Yeah. So, so immigration is good for America. You and I can agree. Otherwise, people of your faith wouldn't be here. No. Well, we we were here on this side of the on this side of the world in this continent from conquest. We came over here and but the big surges of numbers as you well know cuz you're a smart guy. Italian Irish immigration waves, Catholic immigration waves. Okay. Yeah. And I'm not even against those. I'm not even Were you against those if you were alive? I'm not even claiming that a lot of people were against those. I'm not claiming immigration is bad in all cases at all times. What is your claim? My claim is that immigration especially now and especially for foreign people that have nothing in common with us. It's funny you say it's especially now I've forgotten your name. My apologies. Brian in every in every era there has been a Brian who says I'm not against immigration. Now this is what people said about Italians. This is what people said about Irish folks said about Russians Poles and now we're saying about people coming across the southern border because you're not being uh you're being a little disingenuous saying I'm only against immigrants. Now, this is a trope disingenuous because it's a trope that's been used by nivists throughout American history. And every wave of immigrants has come in and faced the same hate and animus and bigotry and lazy tro. And every wave of immigration is ultimately assimilated, integrated, benefited the country. In fact, assimilation right now, according to Jacob Victor from the University of Washington, assimilation rates based on language and citizenship and naturalization are higher now than 100 years ago. Okay, let me make a statement first. I think that you and your own ignored my statement you and your you and your own person are a complete perfect example of why immigration is negative and why we shouldn't allow people who don't have anything in common with us. You're pro abortion. You're pro you euthanasia. You're pro I'm pro euthania. Yeah. You went I've I've seen your stuff. You you you've defended euthania. Pro euthanasia. Yeah. On Pierce Morgan. No, I've never discussed euthanasia with Pierce. Okay. So my point is that you don't agree with the guy in this country. If anyone watching at home, I'm the only guy here who actually supports American values, democracy, free speech, the Constitution. I've got folks here telling me they don't believe in democracy, but they're nationalist. Wait, why should we why should we care about that, by the way? Isn't that what America stands for? What does America stand for? So, you hate what America stands for? Not me. And in fact, all the studies show that im immigrants actually are more patriotic. The only reason Americans the only reason the only reason why Yeah, that's the the Mexicans in LA right now burning it down. Waving Mexican flags being burned down. Please don't send us back to the country that we're waving flag. I've been in LA for a few days. I didn't see anything burned down. Yeah, I know. The the riots have ended. That's cuz Trump sent But if it's burned down, where's it all burned down? I haven't seen it. I've traveled around all of LA. You said LA was burned down. LA is 500 square miles. It's not a fre. It's another false burning. No, no, they're burn. I support youth in Asia. LA's burned to the ground. Immigrants hate what we stand for. Okay. So, I'm super prot. So, you're pro you're probing my position. Immigrants are good for you. You're pro abortion. You're an immigrant. I'm pro Roie Wade. Personally, I'm not pro abortion if you knew anything about me. Uh Roie Wade is all right. Pause. You've been voted out. I was going to say nice to meet you, Brian, but I guess not. You made it. Great to see you. My name is Cyrus. Nice to meet you, Cy. I am also son of two immigrants. Came in legally. I'm also Persian descent. Fantastic. Born in LA. Fantastic. Teranelis. Yes. Yes. Well, I am mainly upset not at the immigrants, legal or not. I'm mainly upset at Wall Street. I'm mainly upset at the elites, the special interests. They are the main reason why we've been having this issue since 1965. And I most want to do well. There are a few bad apples. We can agree, but we want to go after the elites. They are the main cause of the problem. And just like healthcare, trade, everything. Did you know, Cyrus, that the top 1% pay dodge $163 billion in taxes every year, while undocumented people pay hundred billion in tax? So, I know where my anger is against. There there are issues with our tax system on the rich. But in a state like California, some taxes are too high. I used to live here now in Las Vegas. Different debate. I'm saying immigration is good for America. People like you and me overall are good for America is what I'm saying. Okay. But it depends on how it's done. Yes. It depends on how it's done. how it's being done to the US. I'm not blaming the housing crisis on immigrants, not on wages. But in a state like California that doesn't build enough homes and they're bringing immigrants in, you have to increase supply of housing. Okay? But this is where our anger is at is at the political class. The Democrat party used to have a different stance on immigration 15 years ago. Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton. I'm not a fan of I'm not here to defend different Democrats. What I will say is our angle. What I will say is that everyone here actually does think immigration is good for America. Everyone here uses an iPhone designed by an immigrant is on Gmail designed by an immigrant is uh watch is on a YouTube show. We all came to a YouTube show founded by an immigrant. You wouldn't but that's a tiny minority. So you all love immigrants whether you like it or not. Okay. But it's a taboo subject. Should we be concerned about the demographic? So no Anglo-Saxon European-American 0% of America. It doesn't matter. Are they 0% of America? Well, let's say if it becomes 0%. It should not work. They're not going. Why are you bringing weird hypotheticals? Well, but there has But I mean, they're still part of our country. There's culture. There's I mean, even Britain like concerns, but it concerns me when Britain is changing and it's, you know, it's like they're losing their culture, but it's losing their culture. Are they? Are they going to try to UK? I'm telling you, no one's losing their culture. London is going to be very little British in one day. What's the plan? That's what we want to know. What's the plan? You just made that up. Have you been to London? How do we know? Cyrus, have you been to London? So then maybe you shouldn't come on places you don't know anything about. But what's the plan? I grew up in London. London is a very British city. I was in London a few weeks ago. It's a very British city. I hope not. I understand that there are people in this audience that don't like me or you in this country and I respect that. There's some that don't even want me to date a blonde woman. They want to keep to their own or ginger or whatever. I respect that. But there has to be a deal made. There's Idaho. There's Montana. they can go live in a homogeneous society. I don't believe in force. Okay? And I believe that there has to be a deal made and I think there's upsides and downsides to diversity. There's a deal made. People have elections. They vote for elections. And right now there's Donald Trump in the White House. Not someone I support, but people voted for him. Well, why did he get in? Mainly because I'm not sure we have time. 2016. Okay. Part of the reason he got in is that people in this room want people like me and you to leave and they voted for him to try and make that happen. I'm not surprised. One of the Charlottesville marchers doesn't like me and I've met those people and I respect their views. You really shouldn't. Well, their wants. Don't respect racists and fascists is my advice to you. Well, they have their preferences. You know, that's just we can't change that. Actually, we can. Why I tried to come in today, but anyways. All right, that's time. Please return to your seat. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Pleasure. Good. My final claim is that Donald Trump's plan for Gaza is ethnic cleansing. Hey Sarah, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. You too. So why why do you say this is Donald Trump's plan? Why do you think that? I mean, he says it's his plan. Have you seen his plan? When did he say it? He said it standing next to Benjamin Netanyahu in January, February. He said it on Fox News in an interview uh on Fox. He said it on Air Force One when he was chatting to reporters. Word like word for word. What's an example of what he said? Uh word for word, he said, for example, we're going to clean out the Gaza Strip. He said they're going to leave. We're going to take control of it. He says, uh, we'll own it. I would own it. He says, I'm not sure under international law how he can own a foreign piece of land. And when he was asked on Fox News, uh, the people, the Palestinians who are being forced to leave, would they be able to come back? He said, no, they wouldn't. That is the literal definition of ethnic cleansing according to a UN definition. Do you think that Trump is saying this? Do you think that he has some personal interest in cleansing Gazar? Do you think there might be some special interest group or perhaps religious or ethnic group that's you know that maybe he received money from them and that's the whole reason why uh he wants to cleanse Gazer. Why do you think that is? I don't do Donald Trump's motivations. I really don't care. My claim is that what he's doing is ethnic cleansing. Do you agree with that? I would actually yeah probably agree. But I'm just You agree that it's ethnic cleansing. You agree with doing ethnic cleansing? No, I don't agree with it. But I agree that's probably his plan. But I'm trying to figure out like why do you think that is? Because Donald Trump's a white man. He identifies as Christian. I'm not sure if he really is. But what interest does he have in preserving a Jewish ethnostate? Like why would he have that? It's a good question. You'd have to ask Donald Trump that question. I've got multiple views. I'm sure you have many views. I'm I'm not sure I like where you're going with your views, but um I think Donald Trump is definitely someone who's got financial interests in ethnic cleansing. He's got political interests. He loves the evangelical vote. He get a lot of Christian evangelicals like to support Israel because they think Jesus will come back if all the Jews are gathered in one place with no Palestinians. Uh I think he's going to make money he thinks from beachfront property with Jared Kushner. Uh he said something similar in the past. You think that's the real reason? I think there's multiple reasons. Yeah. I think financial, geopolitical, ideological, evangelical. I don't really care. My claim is that what he's doing is ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is a war crime according to the fourth Geneva Convention. It's against international law under the Rome Statute. So we shouldn't be part of that. The United States should not be supporting Donald Trump's plan for ethnic cleansing. I agree. Uh what do you think what do you think should be done instead uh to with the Israel Gaza situation? I'm not sure what your state would like to see a ceasefire in Gaza. I would like to see I don't really get into debates about what solutions. I would like to see an end to the killing. I would like to see Gazans have freedom. I would like to see the Palestinians in Gaza somehow get their land back. 80% of Gaza right now is under Israeli military control or displacement. I would like to see freedom for the Palestinian people. I'm an American. To go back to the core of this show, I spot American values. One person, one person free speech. It really is a religious and ethnic battle. A religious battle. Well, yes. That is what it's obviously between Jews and Muslims want control of the holy land. No, it's not. Yes, it is. What else? What other actually the founders of Israel were secular. They were not religious actually. And I think some religious Jews like Bazalot who's minister. It doesn't really matter. Is a religious fanatic. But no, the core of the conflict is over land. It's colonial. It's historic. It is not about religion. Colonialism is for a reason. steal the land, want everyone to believe it's religious. My point is, why are we sitting here? Why are we sitting here? It's like a a false dichotomy where we have to argue like, do Jews get Israel? Do Muslims get Israel? Why are like we never brought up anyone's religion? How many of us bring up anyone's religion? How many of us here are Christians? I didn't bring up anyone's relig trying to pick sides between Jews and Muslims taking over Israel. Like, don't you think that Hold Hold up. First of all, I didn't bring up religion. Second of all, you know that a lot of Palestinians are Christian, right? Some of them. You're just reducing it to Muslim versus it's majority Muslim. Yeah, it's very But there are many prominent parties. I agree. Yeah, but there's not that many. It's not worth everything. Well, it is the reason. Why do you think Iran is backing proxies that want to take over Gaza, you know, back the terrorism Gaza? It's obviously because they want to Muslim control of the land. You don't think that's why? No, I don't think it's about religion. Is it? I' I've been following this conflict for decades. It's not about religion. People who say it's about religion, it's a distraction. Well, it's a big part of it. I think I think it's become a big part of it. It's been weaponized by bad faith actors. Sure, but I don't think that's the core. The core is that one people, one group of people are dominating another group of people. What group of people is it? But what group of people is dominating another group of people? One ethnic group is dominating another ethnic group. What ethnic group? Jewish people. Yes. Dominating Arabs. Yes. But I didn't say anything about Christian, Muslim, Jew in a religious sense. Jews define as religion and ethnic. Do you know that? Right. Well, why why do you think that Muslims want control of the Holy Muslims? I didn't bring up Muslims. Well, they're Muslim states. Like what do you think like Iran wants to do with Bran? But but that's part of the conversation. What do you mean? No, it's not. The conversation is Donald Trump is doing ethnic cleansing and you agree with me. So I'm not sure why you're still here. It's part of the larger contest. It's a weird debate when you actually agree with me. What I was trying to say is we kind of have this false dichotomy here where we're trying to take the you know the side of the gauins which mostly it's a Muslim majority or the side of human beings who are suffering human beings. You should try who gets control over Israel. I say about control. America is a majority Christian country. Should we be deciding Christians should have control of I agree. Donald Trump should not nothing to do with religion. Donald Trump should not be deciding what happens to Gaza. That's my claim. If you agree with me, great. Let's shake hands. Give the seat to someone who disag. Do you think that America should just cut ties with Israel altogether? What's your definition of cut ties? Like stop funding them, stop being a military arm. Yes, I'm on record saying that was an easier debate. Whoa. Welcome back, Richie. you really want to be here. Um, first of all, I I really thought that obviously where we started, where it ended up, there's a lot of aggression. I can see in your eyes there's a level of exhaustion from being here. This is where my empathy comes in. Where it doesn't is, you know, when you have a room full of people that do agree with you, we have this opportunity to come together and you're kind of mocking people when they do. So, you mock Sarah a little bit when you guys clearly had a common interest and goal to reach. So, I can tell you're agitated. I want to bring that all down. Please, I'm I'm guessing you're not going to, but let's see. No, no, I'm going to. I do want to point out some contradictions. First and foremost, I don't believe you're pro-American in the value system that you claim to uphold, especially with free speech if you're not willing to debate people that don't share your values. That's very un Trump's plan for Gaza is ethnic cleansing. I I don't believe it's ethnic cleansing, but I but I cuz it's not his plan. It is his plan. He said it's my plan. No, he's not call his plan. He is obeying someone else's plan. Okay. Who is he obeying? Uh he is obeying Israel's plan. Okay. Uh for the greater Israel project of which this is one of those things that we can agree on. We're not Why is he doing that? I don't I don't know. Maybe they have something on him. Maybe they have something on all of you think it's a bad thing what he's doing. Absolutely. Okay. But see, you're I don't want to shut down agree with you. Okay, perfect. You know, but I I I want to take this opportunity because I don't know if I'm going to get the opportunity again to say you're not American first and foremost. You're not Remember what I said? The agitation from you is not going to be there. But what I'm saying, you came to lower the temperature and then make racist remarks. You know that's a racist remark. It's not racist. You tell an American citizen. But okay, perfect. Perfect. You just proved your own point. You just said that was a racist position. Earlier you you argue this contention that America has no race. It's a bunch of immigrants that culminate together. America has no race. You you inferred it. You absolutely did. So now you're saying it's racist for me to take American nationalist approach. You're kind of American national approach. Is that a white approach? I I think it's a a white nivist approach of of course only Americans are white people. Why did your parents immigrate only white people? Why did your parents immigrate from India to the UK? Because the UK colonized and conquered India. Okay. Why did you immigrate to America? Because many reasons. Okay. All opportunity. There's opportunity. You don't know the accent. Your accent is a is an afflect of of white Anglo-Saxon. You know there are 50 million Americans in this country. I understand. But you're none of them are Americans in your view. what I'm trying to get you to do to reach a common ground here. We're not gonna reach a common ground because you said I'm not American. Please try. I don't think you're American. I'm saying I'm saying you're not American. I'm not I'm saying you're not American due to values. I don't think you're not American on values either. I think you're a little fascisty, a little racist. See, you're using these words. Okay. First of all, I want to say this. I'm not just throwing you sit down. I said every conservative that has ever been shut down by leftists like you. For every conservative, for every conservative, you've already said, for every rightwing, for every Stefan Mu Mu, Thomas, Nick Fuentes, all of those people American. He's Australian. But but but that's the point. I'm saying people that are on our side of the aisle that get shut down by people like you because you're leveraging this position of emotion. You're joking, right? No, I'm not. You're leveraging my side of the aisle is trying to deport you. The only shut down they're actually trying my entire race. So, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? You're a white genocide guy. Are you kidding me? You know the fact you're I'm amazed that Jubilee find some of you guys. How do they find you? Do you email you? Do you have Why are you trying to ou me? Do you go to Nordstrom? All immigrants. Have you ever been on eBay? Immigrants. You love immigrants. You love immigrants when they're helping you. You just don't like the color of my skin. We're having a different genocide. All right. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. Okay. I really wish we could have got I mean, you believe in white genocide, so it's very hard to Hello. Hey, how's it going? Nice to meet you. Hello. So, um, I'll switch over to the Gaza thing in a second, but first off, I just wanted to touch on that. You said that you support free speech, of course, right? So, what I'm confused about is you've refused to debate people that I've disagreed with you because you said that they're racist or they're fascist, right? No, no, no, If we're going to do facts, they said they were racist and fascist. Get your facts right before you start arguing. So, isn't the whole entire point of a debate to debate people that you don't agree with? I don't debate people who don't see me a as equal. No point. Or b support democracy because that would undermine the whole idea of the debate. If you don't support democracy as our friend here doesn't, and support General Franco, then what is the point of a debate? The first amendment doesn't mean you have to debate everyone. Somebody comes up to you in the street and starts talking to you, you don't you don't have an obligation to carry on talking to them. I'm sure you go about your business. somebody comes up to you in the subway and sits next to you and starts ranting in your face, you're not going to start debating. Everyone here has hygiene standards as do you. There are people you wouldn't debate, I'm sure, as well. Okay. So, can you please uh describe why you think Trump is uh supporting ethnic cleansing of GSA just because he wants to take over the land there? How does that kill? Not just take over the land, kick out all the people. That is the definition of ethnic cleansing. So, isn't ethnic cleansing killing people? Because it seems like you're No, you can ethnic cleanse people without killing them. And by the way, they have been killed. More than 50,000 people in Gaza have been killed by the Israelis, by people like Bazalmotrich who said recently the finance minister of Israel, "We are going to Gaza to conquer, cleanse, and remain. We are going to annihilate the place. We're going to disassemble Gaza." He said, "We're going to leave it behind as piles of rubble. That's the guy Trump's funding, supporting, that's the guy praising Trump." So yes, Trump and Smootrich are ethnically cleansing. I can I cannot deny I cannot deny that thousands of people are dying in Gaza. But you need to realize why are they dying? Is it possibly that they're attacking another country because people are dying attacking another country? Just because Israel is killing more Gazins than Gazins are killing Israel doesn't mean Gaza is righteous and Israel is evil. I never said anything about evil or right. I said ethnic cleansing. You said don't they have to be killed? I said they are being killed and the criteria for what's happening to them. If Donald Trump says these people have to leave and never come back, is that not ethnic cleansing? What is your definition of ethnic cleansing? I would think ethnic cleansing is when you're killing off a uh large part of an ethnic group. That's genocide. You're confusing your terms. Ethnic cleansing is removing one ethnic group using a deliberate policy by violence or terror inspiring means to remove another population, another ethnic group from a certain geographic area. That's the UN definition of ethnic cleansing. That is what he's doing. When he was asked Donald Trump, can they come back? He said no, they cannot. That is I think I've heard all these fact people talk about white genocide today. You guys are nationalists. How would you feel if somebody came the president of France came and told you to leave your land and not come back? Would you not feel you'd been ethnically cleansed from your home? From America? Yeah. Well, because I'm a I'm my my ancestors were settlers here, not immigrants. They actually Palestinians are not immigrants in Gaza. They are indigenous people to the land. Didn't Israel just give Gaza the land like a few decades ago? No. I'm pretty sure Israel used to have that land. I'm pretty sure you're wrong. They withdrew from 2005 from the land, but control the air them in 2005. No, they don't give it to them. They control the air, the sea space, the borders, the population registry. They controlled what went in and out. It was a prison, an open air prison. That's not giving them. Don't they have a border with Egypt and then the Mediterranean and Israelis and Egyptians work together because Donald Trump and Joe Biden and Barack Obama? Yes, they're funded by the United States. Did you know that Muslim countries do bad things, too? No, I know that do they do bad things. Okay, then we're in agreement. All right, pause. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. Nice to meet you. No one. Great. Hello, sir. Welcome back. See you again, Miy. All right. So, I agree that Trump wants to do a cleansing, but not an ethnic one because that area requires a lot of cleansing because when you have a population that was taught from early childhood age to hate Jews, Christians, and pagans, you need some serious re-education. Number one, that's not true. And number two, that's not what he's proposing. Well, I mean, mo most Palestinians by polling number do support Hamas. They support resisting Israel. Well, I mean the thing is, you know, what did they do in the first place that they are in this uh what you call open air prison? Great question. What did they do to deserve being occupied? Well, here's the thing. Because the Islamic Republic in Iran is using them as a tool. What does this as a tool for their Islamic expansion? When did the Islamic Hold on. When did the Islamic Republic of Iran You're Iranian American, I believe? Yes, I am. When was the Islamic Republic of Iran founded? 1979. When was Gaza occupied by Israel? uh 19 well the very first 67 yeah so can we do the maths together 12 years before the Islamic Republic of Iran existed Israel was oppressing occupying dispossessing the people of Gaza so your argument makes no sense were there any terrorist organizations at the time the PLO was considered a terrorist organization by the entire western world all right so was Hamas there Hamas did not exist till the 1980s exactly my point is after the Islamic Republic came it became chaotic because the Islamic Republic started to lose the what the so-called innocent Palestinians for their own so-called innocent Palestinian. You don't think Palestinians are innocent? Not all of them because what about the 17,000 children who were killed? They're doing the same. 17,000 children were killed. Were they not innocent? Who uh were they not innocent? Who's responsible for that? Israel dropped the bomb. Hamas is responsible. Hamas is responsible for hiding in hospitals and and banking tunnels underneath. So when children are shot in the head by Israeli snipers, Israeli snipers aren't responsible for that. Look, it's a simple question. Here's the problem. When Israeli snipers shoot Palestinian children in Gaza in the head, as eyewitness testimony and doctor's testimony proves, that's not the fault of the Israeli snipers. This is this is the problem because then you have a problem. The problem is you won't answer the question. I'll ask you a third time. When Israeli snipers shoot Palestinian children in the head, is that not the fault of Israeli snipers? Well, you got to let me finish. No, you got to answer the question fourth time. When Israeli snipers Palestinian children in the head, we're running out of time. I need to know what you think about innocent children cuz what you said was pretty outrageous. You said so. innocent Palestinians for the fifth time when Palestinian children are shot in the head by Israeli snipers. Is that not the fault of Israel? What did those children do? What did you tell me? Did the children deserve to be shot in the head? Because the problem is millions of people are watching you say children. They start brainwashing children at a at a very long young age. So you support sniping children in Gaza? Do other people here support sniping children in Gaza? Is that a conservative position now? What if they're wearing a suicide vest? They weren't. But what if they are? They're not though. Dozens of children. I have friends who went there. Doctors went to American doctors. They came back and we have multiple children. What if they're hellbent on killing you and your family? A 10-year-old child, an 8-year-old child, a six-y old child. Because because you sitting on television where millions of people are going to see, your neighbors, your friends, you support the killing of children. Millions of people don't know what's going on. Even your fellow rightwingers are saying, "Don't go this far. genocide. Sure. But don't millions of people don't understand the brainwashing that is going on in Isra Islamic Republic and in Palestine to create this obsessed with Iran so much that you're supporting the killing of Palestinian children who never harmed you or any other Israeli. That's insane. Look, and the fact that you support Trump's ethnic cleansing now doesn't surprise me. I didn't say ethnic cleansing. I said cleansing of the land because you need to cleanse the land from said you've been voted out. Please return to your seat. How you doing? Good to see you again. I'm good. I'm good seeing you, too, man. Uh, first thing I'm going to say is, uh, I'm not dying for Israel. Okay, that's the first thing I'm going to say. And, uh, I don't like when you come up here and you use the type of rhetoric that you do. You talk like all these like leftwing positions and then you go to the last part, which is I don't support ethnic cleansing in Palestine. I think you're doing a huge disservice to pro Palestinians when you start allowing aligning yourself with all these progressives. Um I I don't think it looks good because you have all these conservatives in here who oppose war. They oppose intervention in the same tradition of Pat Buchanan and all the greats that came about Donald Trump though sadly. Yeah, it is sad. It is sad. I do agree. I mean he ran on an anti-war ticket. He said he was gonna I didn't because he lies, right? You gonna let me talk or you just want to Yeah, true. So I mean yeah you keep you know you keep going back to Trump. I don't think this is part of his plan. I think this is a plan of lobbyists and this is not just unique to Trump. It's been a thing since the Democrats. It's been a thing since the Republicans before him. It's it's been like this since Truman. I don't know if you read like John Mirshimer's the Israel lobby or anything like that. Would you agree or disagree with anything like that? Oh, I agree with Steven John Mesh. Yeah, for sure. Okay, great. So, I'm just wondering when you ally yourself with all these leftists and you come up here and you argue for immigration, you argue up here that, you know, Trump's this bad criminal and this and that and then you think Trump's bad too. a bad I think he's good on some questions and bad on other things. But let me get to my point here is you allow yourselves with guys like uh you know Jewish Voices for Peace and all those guys. Great people. Yeah. Not really though. Why? Cuz they're self-interested in it. It says by definition it says it says it on their home page. By definition they're not self-interested, right? They're going against their own. Are you going to let me talk? On their homepage it literally says that we are here to segregate Judaism from Zionism. It's very clear they're doing this in their own interest. That's why it literally says Jewish voices for peace. They're going to be the good Jews who say that we don't support Palestine. And then what happens is you take all these progressives, you go out there and LAR in the street. Then everyone here who's conservative, they're going to broke for the pro-war candidate because they don't want to be associated with all the liberals. You're forced to vote for pro-war people. Poor people. It's either that or get replaced in my country. What do you want me to do? Oh, you and your replacement [ __ ] Yeah. Okay, buddy. [Applause] Oh wow, there's three people so far. Let's keep counting. We should be nicer to you, otherwise you'll deport us. What a great argument. This is the free speech debate. It's not your country, my friend. It's our country whether you like it or not. I I thought Kai was he smiled. He laughed. He disagreed. He did it. I felt like it was good faith. Let's see. I appreciate it, Eddie. He seemed to be in good faith. He seems kind of smart and uh you know he's one of the few people who doesn't want to deport me or or maybe not. We're going to find out. My claim is we should get rid of birthright citizenship. Why do you want to get rid of birthright citizenship and how by the way? Because you know it's in the constitution. I'm so glad you brought this up. Yes. Because it was one of my the 14th 14th I mentioned it to a bunch of your friends and nobody wanted to engage in the 14th. Let's talk about the 14th amendment citizenship clause which says that if you're born here you're a citizen of the United States. Yes. I well I and I chose this because it's an it's an extension of the original debate and the immigration debate. Okay. I think birthright citizenship first of all when it was originally argued um you know among the the people who were who are actually voting on the clause right it was argued that the birthright citizenship was not automatically extended to everybody who was just born here. And we have a long history of that as well for example with the Native Americans who had particular laws that applied solely to them. What I think we're seeing in this country is not everybody is so similarly under the jurisdiction thereof of the United States, right? And by allowing for birthright citizenship and not interpreting the Constitution as we're legally allowed to and restrict, you know, the automatic citizenship of anybody who's born here, we actually remove the issue, for example, of family separation because there is no incentive of a family to come over to this country illegally and then have a child, which is contributing to the awful situation we have in America of breaking up families. This is not something that I imagine you or I agree with. No, the issue is birthright citizenship hasn't incentivized that. So even if I were to concede that in some cases birthright citizenship has incentivized that that you know I don't like the phrase anchor babies, but I'm not naive enough to pretend that there are not immigrants who come here and time the pregnancy in order to get of you can you and I can agree on that. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you then rip up a constitutional principle that goes back centuries. Goes back before the 14th amendment. 14th amendment came about I think in 1868 if memory serves me correctly but the principle underlying it is actually from my other country the UK ancient English common law right so this was always the case the 14th amendment as you know because you seem well read came along and codified what was already a principle in American and English law that if you're born in the country you are a citizen now you mentioned the point about jurisdiction there is that little bit in there in where it says subject to the jurisdiction thereof that in the debate if you go back and read the debate that the senators had at the time they were very explicit that that was to do with foreign ministers and foreign ambassadors, diplomats living in embassies decades shouldn't be citizens. Obviously, they're here on their own. You know, the the Argentine embassy in DC, it's Argentine soil, you know. So, we accept all that. Absolutely. But when they were asked but when they were asked about Chinese immigrants, Senator Trumbull, who was uh I think the chair of the judiciary committee back in the 1860s during this debate, he said at the time, Chinese immigrants children, they are citizens. In fact, 1898, as you well know, we get Wong Kim Arc, Supreme Court case, Wongqim Arc versus the United States, and the Supreme Court says yes, even the child of undocumented Chinese immigrants is an American citizen. So, this is a principle going back centuries. So, while I can agree with you that there are cases that abuse the 14th amendment, that there are issues of family separation, I'm not going to rip up a constitutional principle that goes back centuries and is backed by what 27y old Supreme Court president because Donald Trump is looking for ways to cut the number of brown and black people in the United States. If if you don't mind me interrupting, this is this is where I think it's important as well to go back to what we talked about with the Constitution. When we're analyzing, and I admittedly, I'm not as interested in the legal argument. There's obviously many ways to interpret the constitution. Y, but I don't think, especially among conservatives, that it is positive to use the constitution to dismantle it. When we analyze the original context, like you were saying in in the late 19th century, our immigration law was absolutely different. Including, you know, in respect with the Irish and Chinese immigrants that were coming over, it was absolutely different. Chang, we had open borders, my friend. Some people in this room would hate it. We had open borders for half of American history. Well, that I don't think that's very that's very that's very true. It's 100% true. Well, hold on. If you're comparing the open borders, which I don't concede to, but if you're comparing the open borders prior to like 1910 and prior to the heart seller act and you look at the amount of immigration and who was coming over, nice deflection amount is irrelevant. We did have an open absolutely relevant because the constitution like the founding father your argument is we had open borders fewer immigrants. I was about to answer. It's important to analyze the context wherein these laws and parts of the constitution arise. The original founding fathers said the constitution was made only for immoral and religious people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Which means the people that wrote this document understood that it would not be able to properly super secular people. Let's just be clear on that. Well, no, that's not true. They were deist. No, the majority were deists. But they were secular. Secular doesn't mean atheist. You know what I mean? I understand that. But theist doesn't mean secular or atheist. It means they believe in a god but not a god. That's about whether they're theist or theist. I said they're secular. But secular means you separate church and state. Okay. Well, let's talk. We could even talk about that. That's a perfect example. You're going to run out of your own time making your argument which I haven't made so far. I understand. But the separation of church and state is now completely differently understood than originally proposed. Thomas Jefferson who talks about the wall of separation which doesn't even exist in the constitution understood it as a Supreme Court president as you well know. Yeah. Sure. But the president of the last 100 years where in the country has been completely different from its founding should not overrule the original intent of the people who wrote the document that you and I are both citing. Okay. Which means but I don't but I'm not I'm not locked into what the people who write. We've had amendments to the constitution. You know that right? I understand that. And this is our fundamental disagreement is that I I don't believe you think you can read the minds of people in the 1770s. That's not true. And and I'm stuck. I just I just believe this country ought to be more like the country we originally had. And I don't think that's your opinion. You're entitled to I understand that. But they're a factual basis. Well, let me let me try to see what you believe. Okay. If we are voting on these constitutional amendments, if we are interpreting them and our interpretation becomes absolutely let's say a 180 from what the original intent of the authors of that document is, are you in favor of that? I guess depends on the issue. Okay. I would say no matter what. So for example, take the second amendment which we kind of danced around. It's not been but come up here and there. You know the debate about the second amendment is the fundamental debate is one side says it's it's limited and the other side said no no what they meant was the militias. They didn't and they and they had musketss. They didn't mean AR-15s, right? So we could have that endless debate which I really don't care for about that. But to come back to your point about the constitutional principles, the 14th amendment comes along in the 1860s. It's pretty old. It's not as old as America, but it comes along and it's been around for 150 years. So if you want to get away, it was around before 150 million Americans. And I'm saying it was around before the United States was even created. It's part of ancient English common law. If you're born in a place, you're a citizen of that place, unless you're a child of a foreign diplomat or on a Native American reservation. English English common law did not exist simultaneously as millions of people coming across the border in a year. Just to get to principles, your argument is numbers change everything because we've got so many more people. Not solely, but absolutely. Okay. The demog the demographics of your immigration. Can I ask you a question? If you got rid of if you got rid of the 14th amendment, what would be in its place? I think a citizenship test would be fantastic. I wish um I think we could administer it in high school to everyone or just the immigrants. No, everybody. And then if you fail it, you do you denaturalize white American people? Maybe you can't get a government job. That dude, I I think there's plenty of benefits that the government offers people that you should not be uh able to to receive. I'll tell you this, right? I I this is this might sound bad and I think I don't think you people care for me anyway. So let me say something you might not like. Nobody would pass it. If you have a high school immigration citizenship test for everyone I think people will take citizenship more serious. The immigrant kids are going to outperform the white kids and you might actually end up denaturalizing some of the white kids and then people here will be really upset and well hold on and and I like to be consistent about this. That's possible. But what I think it would do is it would give everybody a larger sense of the importance of citizenship. So you would say no one born in this country is a citizen. No one would automatically no. Automatically no. I think I think we could extend that. You know, people who have a heritage in the country. Where are they until they pass the test? Undocumented, I suppose. Yeah. They they are not able to receive government benefits. They're not able to receive government benefits. They're not able to apply for these jobs that are citizens. Okay. Well, hold on. This we're talking here about the way that we would implement it. I'm pretty important. If you're trying to get rid of the 14th amendment, I'm going to ask about the practicalities of it and Trump's doing it right. Hold on. And I'm not going to be able to explain it to you in 10 minutes. But what I can explain to you is that right now in this country, we have a crisis of people not Hold on. We're not understanding what citizenship is. The way that you've referred to citizenship makes everybody who hasn't come to the United States an undocumented American citizen until the time they come over here. That's how a lot of countries are, right? You know that you know that birthight citizenship is operated by multiple n democracies around the world. I know Trump lies and says we're the only country that does it. He lies. That's not true. Multiple countries. You think it ought to be that way? Do you think everybody in the world is an undocumented American? Hold on. Well, or undocumented Canadian or undocumented Brit, right? Or undocumented. Sure. Well, I'm an American, so I say America. But yeah, but I'm saying, right, the principle is you immigrate. We have free movement people. I support free movement of people around the world. But do you believe they're all Are you Kim Jong-un? You think people should only stay in one country and never leave and be blocked from leaving their country? That's a very illiberal and conservative position. I think there's a big libertarian big there's big room to move between being Kim Jong-un and saying that in practical terms if you I gave one side. I want to give the other. There's a big room to move between being Kim Jong-un and saying that everybody in the world is an American. They're just not on our soil yet. I think being an American that's a ridiculous statement, right? Because everyone in the world is not heading to the United States of America. Yeah. In fact, right now numbers of people coming in and dropping. But the idea that you are supporting is that the moment you come to this soil and that you're born here, you become an American. And I So I'm not saying the moment you come to this soil, you become an American. I didn't. I had to do the test, right? I had to do the naturalization process which is guaranteed by the 14th amendment. But the 14th amendment also says if you're born here then you automatically get it. And I'm not saying I think the problem is a hill I'm gonna die on. The problem we have instead we don't appreciate citizenship. The problem is that when you talk about immigration like we did before when we talked about everything before what were we talking about? We were talking about products. We weren't talking about practices or perceptions which is really what immigration is about. Can I agree with you? We don't in this country value citizenship enough. I think we should encourage people to have more civics lessons in schools, understand American history and constitution much more. Here's what's the irony is I'm sitting in a room today where I've met a bunch of people claiming to be Native Americans who hate everything America stood for for centuries. I think they stand much closer to the America that we originally had. And I think that's a big disagree if there had any clue what that was like. And you know things about that America, but you've agreed to dismantling that America as long as it's legal. You have. You're the person who came here and made your argument taking away an amendment of the Constitution. I didn't. I said keep the Second Amendment. I'm an originalist. I think we should interpret it the way it was probably originally interpreted. All right, guys. That's time. with your coach. Thank you very much, man. Appreciate it. I thought it would be an interesting exercise in trying to understand what genuine farright conservative folks think. And it was kind of disturbing to see that they think what I thought they think and they were happy to say it out loud. I am disappointed that I had to sit across from people who believe in white genocide, who believe I'm not a citizen. Multiple people here said I should be deported. One of them was even the child of immigrants, which I found bizarre. Obviously, we were way outclassed. Like we're not uh professional debaters. I don't think anyone in this room was. Maybe one or two people. And clearly Manny, he does this for a living, right? He's a journalist. So he's really good at what he does. Hassan was pretty good at, you know, taking cheap shots, trying to like, you know, derail people from their from their arguments, you know, trying to like pit me against, you know, some of the people that wouldn't like people of my color to be in the United States, which is irrelevant. I think one person said as he walked off, you'll be the first to go. Uh which is ominous and racist. I think that was a disheartening and particularly discouraging because it just felt like it was fitting into a stereotype that we're trying to fight against, which is like we actually have arguments. We can provide good reason and that rhetoric just pushes that far away. I am, I guess, a far-right Republican, but as I learned today, not as far right as I thought I was. You know, someone gets up and they're just like, "Yeah, I mean, I guess I just want to have like autocracy forever and Christian nationalism or just being like, yeah, I'm racist." And to me, that's very foreign of a concept. While I didn't, you know, disagree with most of the people in the circle, it did bother me at times, you know, to see them um say mean things, there's not really a reason to do that. But it also upset me when Medie said, you know, I'm not willing to debate with those people. Free speech doesn't mean you need to give credibility or oxygen or a platform to people who don't agree in human equality. I I hear Medy's point about not giving them a platform, but the thing is, if you stop giving them a platform, they don't just go away and change their mind. And then you tell the rest of society, no one exists who thinks like that. And that's not true. I do like to debate people, even people I disagree with. I try and avoid bad faith folks. I think some of the folks today were bad faith. You know, I'm anti-conservative, right? I don't support conservative views on taxation. I don't support conservative views on immigration. But the people here today were way beyond conservatives. This is open authoritarianism. And this is what is being normalized and mainstreamed in our country by people in power, by the media, by people who don't know any