What's the largest check you've ever written in your life? Some 3,550 crores. Wow. You've spent time with Ratand Data. You have spent time with MKkesh Amani. I have missed almost all the billionaires in India. Wow. What is the commonality you see in all these self-made Indian billionaires? Force yourself for action. Problem in India is people think somebody is going to help. The one person who can help you is you. So when you decide to help yourself, you win. This is billionaire mindset. If there are genzies watching this and they want to reach that level of those larger businesses, two things are important in any business success. Profitability and cash flow management. People think understanding finance is the job of finance manager. There is nothing more stupid than that. Anyone who understand finance, they win in their life. How do you begin to understand finance? It's very simple. The day that you had to file for bankruptcy, what was your emotional state of mind? See, once you have fallen, 95% of your friends will not respond to you. You were the whistleblower for the 2G scam. Yeah. And everybody knows it. But who paid the penalty for whistleblower? I paid. It was much harder to do business 15 years ago. Today, the environment is so good. Why I sold my telecom license? Because there was a minister who are looking for money and I could not pay money. Oh my god. See I am not poor I am bulock. So for me to come back is much faster and quicker. I'm now 68 years. I have never borrowed 100 rupees from anybody in personal capacity. I want to attract money. Wow. What was the most expensive purchase you had made? When I land houses I bought I lived in a fancy house 524 crores 71 bedrooms. What was the craziest thing in that house of yours? Everything was crazy in your eyes when you look back at your whole career. What were your mistakes? My mistake is very simple. I never thought that I have skills to build a powerful enemies. And I always believed that government will come and help me. And I still believe when my case is finally heard in the court, the judiciary system will help me and the truth will prevail. Shiva Shankaran Sur is by far one of the most interesting life stories that I've got to know about through the course of this podcast. He's been one of the richest men that India has ever seen and he's also been someone who lost it all. He went bankrupt after he chose to be the whistleblower in the 2G scam. Um, he's gone from owning islands to selling off assets in order to pay off loans. And this was a very emotional, very heartfelt conversation, full of mistakes, full of learnings, full of human grit. I hope that you gain a lot of motivation through this episode. If you're a young entrepreneur, you will gain a lot of life lessons through this. He's founded ASL. He's founded Barista Coffee. He's founded countless other companies over the course of independent India's history. If you've lived through the '9s, the 2000s, and the 2010s, chances are that you've directly or indirectly used a product that was created or helped by Shivas Shankaran S's vision, his group of companies. He's had a very big role to play in the Indian business landscape over the last 20 to 30 years. And in this phase of life, he's actually paying back the debt after whatever he went through in the early 2010s. Uh very fascinating conversation about bouncing back in life. That's what I gained from this one. Today he's running IO health which is a worldwide range of health clinics that aims to help human beings with their longevity with the process of staying alive well beyond the expected lifespan. This is Shivasu's story and his heart revealed to you on the Rani show. Enjoy. But watch this one with a bit of a notebook so that you make some notes for your own business journey and your own journey of life. Enjoy. [Music] I'm very honored and very happy to be sitting in front of you Shas. Yeah, I'm also very honored to make be in your show. See, in 2024, I really wanted to be in your show and I'm happy that it happens in this month of December. Yeah, I'm just getting back from my Goa trip which made national news right now. Yeah, you had a problem and you nearly faced the death. Yeah, I mean for 10 15 seconds I started fading away a little bit. Fortunately, you know, there were the right people around. I think God protects the people who pray. You're lucky. Yeah. 100%. Yes. Are you lucky? Yeah. Many times I faced this kind of death problem. You know in 2008 when Taj had terrorist my son previous day night asked me to have dinner in Nubra and I have never refused any of my request of my only son but I don't know why I refused. I told him no dinner you went today. Why should I come with you tomorrow there? If we would have gone for dinner to that Indian restaurant in Ora, we would have dead in 2001 in New York. I was in the previous plane for 911. Really? Ah. And then when the plane stopped, I come and see in the terminal, it was hitting my plane was the next one. Oh my god. And I got saved. And in 2012, I was with Raten Tata where one engine failed. Yeah. I saved. So it is normal. The god is saving me for a purpose. Uh that engine failing story. I think yall were supposed to land in Columbbo if I'm not mistaken. Yes. We were flying from Singapore to Sea Shells and they woke me up and said in 30 minutes the we will have a problem. They told you the plane is going to crash. Yes. And I sent a email to my son sitting in the plane with my password. So I told him you read my all my emails so you will understand what I'm doing in business. You were effectively crafting your will in some ways. It's not a will. Uh death is not a painful action for the person who dies. It is a painful for the people whom we leave. And I want to make that comfortable. Yeah. I have a lot of questions about all these moments. Okay. But I have to set some context for the viewers because I think a lot of people are meeting you digitally for the first time through this episode. Yes. So, um I'll begin with a very podcast oriented question. What's the largest check you've ever written in your life to anyone? Some 3,550 k from my personal account. Wow. Who was it? I wrote it to Nimesh company, the famous chairman of JM Financial Services. And both the Nimesh company and Bilah delivered their promises and I made about 140 course profit in the trans. Oh wow. Yeah. How does it feel dealing in that thousands of cr range of money? It doesn't feel anything because that is not my happiness. The outcome was not my happiness. My happiness is I started practicing a life to work for success. When you work for success, it becomes a way of life. So there's no difference. As soon as I woke up, I start working. And then when I sleep, even in the sleep I used to get dreams of my project of satellite or submarine cable or this thing. Respect. Wow. You genuinely enjoy work. Yes. That's beautiful. I even developed a slogan. I enjoy what I do and do what I enjoy. M for people who have not uh researched about you until this episode can you just list out some of the companies that you have founded? See I can list out what all I founded in past. Sure. I started a fabrication company in the name of Sona and then I went to a cell computer company in the name of Sterling Computer. Then I went to a cellular company in Sterling Cellula. Then I went and formed a civil limited in Bermuda to put a submarine cable from America to Chennai. Wow. Then I put a satellite in SA satellite joined with Singapore Telecom and I put SDM4 in in the sky for DTH. Wow. Uh then I opened Dishnet to bring the broadband to the houses. Then I started fresh and honest. This is the fresh name and the hest is only in this company in the world and competed against Starbucks. I brought a 10 rupees espresso to all the railway stations in India and later barista made it for 100 rupees. I had about 48 companies. I don't I don't even remember those companies. All these thing ended in 2014 when I first filed for bankruptcy for no fault of me. Okay. I gave a guarantee to uh one telecom company who invested from Beijing that if license canled by government of India for whatever reason okay I have to pay their investment back. It has nothing to do with my credibility or integrity or anything and I need not have signed that contract also guarantee also you know a stupidity because every human being is born with the stupidity and little foolishness but he has an option to practice it. Unfortunately at that time I choose to practice my stupidity and foolishness together. So I signed it and the government of India for no reason 4 years 11 months 17 days later they cancelled the license. Actually Supreme Court cancelled the license even though I was not in front of the Supreme Court. So I went back to Supreme Court and filed. My case is pending in Supreme Court. When it is heard I will get my money back. Wow. Seeing so many businesses be built out and then something that's out of your control plays a role in your life. Yeah. Uh the day that you had to file for bankruptcy. Yeah. What was your emotional state of mind? I was quite okay. See because I read the Donald Trump book before I filed bankruptcy. He says in that the only difference between for me after filing bankruptcy is things which I used to get faster now will get delayed. I will still win. That Donald Trump's book motivated me. I filed bankruptcy and the same day I draw a plan that what I will do for becoming a billionaire again. Respect. See I am not poor. You know many common people in India think I am poor. No, I am broke. So for me to come back to what I lost is much faster and quicker because I am now thinking of my future in present tense. I'll give you an analogy. You know when milk becomes sour, when yogurt becomes spoiled, it becomes cheese. A more highly valued product. Take grapes. Grapes become sour, it becomes expensive wine. M so when I had this problem I am no longer interested in making 2 billion. Now I am interested to make my first 8 billion. Wow. And then you know I have other ideas. I want to become a largest employee of digital workers in 2025 2026. I want to employ 200,000 digital workers in 100 countries who will work for CA. Uh, and they will look after you. Yeah. Uh, so I'm building now AI agents. AI agents. Agents. There's too much to learn from you. I'm not going to let you go for 2 three hours. Yeah. I have to make you sit down and just extract. Yeah. I made you smart. Yeah. Yeah. I'm genuinely I'm feeling little blessed you know that my job allows me to meet people like yourself because I actually feel that real education in life comes from experience rather than just college. The greatest aim of education is not knowledge but action. Change your thinking and change your life. Yeah. Uh and force yourself for action. See problem in India is people think somebody is going to help. They need to understand nobody will help. Only the one person who can help you is you. So when you decide to help yourself, you win. When you see a young entrepreneur like me. Yes. What goes on in your mind? See you are your life. I want to give only one advice. Life is equal to time. Time is equal to money. So your life is equal to money. So but you are spending that currency without knowing what is the balance. Now imagine for a second that nobody was there to save you in the sea. What would have happened to you? But you are spending that expensive currency. You know people don't when they spend the time they don't think that they are spending the currency. Understood. Then another thing I see when I look at you is you have sleep debt. Yeah. Uh and you understand Reni your credit card debt I can pay but sleep debt only you have to pay and there is another problem in sleep debt. If you don't pay within that week, that becomes with a big interest later on in life especially right it increases your blood sugar. Yeah. And you become diabetic and you know once you become diabetic you have been issued a passport to death then you get three other diseases cardiovascular disease cancer also. So this is the issue. Yeah man. Okay. Lot of tangential questions. Yes. But again my main job is to make myself and the audiences understand you better. Yeah. Would love to know a little bit about your childhood sir if you can begin there. I was an ordinary student born and then I went to a corporation school. I learned when I was doing first the only person who can help me is you myself. Then I realized unless I make money and do ordinary things in an extraordinary way, people won't appreciate me. What did your parents do? My father was a school teacher. My mother was a housewife. Okay. Luckily, I was a only son and three blessed with three nice younger sisters. So, everybody took care of and I'm grateful to my father because he gave me lot of freedom. See 55 60 years back giving children freedom is a complex matter. Okay. He gave me freedom. So I could read all these things. And then at the age of 24 I went to New York to teach computer programming. What did you study in college? I studied only mathematics and economics. What was your degree? I have no BA. BA. Economics. Mathematics. Yeah. But I went to OPM course in Harvard. I went for non-financial manager course in other universities but most of the help is the life taught me. So you think that higher education you got at Harvard and those other universities it played a role in your career? Yeah. Uh it no it made me smart like what? See first 24 years I was an entrepreneur then at that time I was also making decisions. I gave then gave directions to the decision making team and then I become the mentor. Okay. Education will help you. But will education make you successful? No. Success is equal to skill plus luck. But great success is equal to 30% more skill but tons of luck. Then I started thinking how can I get good luck. Then I decided by doing my karma good and practicing dharma will get me luck. Being a good human and having a spiritual bending. Yes. Absolutely. I believe in God and of course cash also and believe in me also. This is exactly how I look at life. You know what you're describing. Yes. I definitely feel there's a huge element of luck and destiny in anyone's life. Yes. And you have to be a good human being. Be kind to others. Pray to God. Say thank you to God. Uh and at the same time work towards earning money. Yeah. And then you can earn the money better if you do the first few things right. Absolutely right. No. Earning money only makes you rich. It does not guarantee you a rich life. Yeah. You've spent time with Ratand Data. Yes. You have spent time with MKkesh Amani. You have spent time with Atal Bihari Vajay. Right. These are the three people that the public knows about. Why I spend with Mukhani I spent time with Anil Ambari I spent with this Sami also fair to say you've met even other leaders I I have met almost all the billionaires in India I met Adani oh wow when he was worth only 200 kores wow wow so many questions yes I met Sashi Dhuya you know how I met Sashi Duya in London I just entered India first class and said my next seat was Sashi Duya oh wow And he said he knows Tamil. So he started speaking in Tamil. And the funny thing Shashidua those days was more having entrepreneurship skills than me. In a piece of paper he made a deal of thousand cr with me. Oh wow. In that same flight. Seriously? Same flight. You should ask his son and his brother Ravuya. He's so smart. In a piece of paper is a pen we discussed. If there are genzies watching this who are just fresh out of college or who are in college. Yeah. And they want to reach that level of starting those larger businesses. Very easy. Today change your mind that that changes your life and then push yourself for action you will win. See for genesis if they want to become mukeshani or adani or tata it is 100% possible. What do they begin with? Because today the environment is so good. See like my time why I sold my telecom license my first license to sashi duya for th,000 k because there was a minister at that time who are looking for money and I could not pay money and I do not the system at that time bother from financial institution and start project. So I thought better I sell one license and I will come and do the telecom business in my second license. That is what I did. Today the environment is completely changed. Everything is digital. You have AI and all the government enable things faster quicker. It was much harder to do business 15 years ago. 50 I'm talking about 50 years back. Okay. Last 10 years everything changed. M in the next 10 years it will become much more easier. I'll give you one small example. Please sir 35 years back when I take my Indian passport to a European trade show they will look at the entrance you are from India. They will give you a gift. They don't want you to enter the booth because they think you have no purchasing parity to buy any of that products that is sold. Now on the contrary in 2025 if you go with a Indian passport to any hall in any Europe you are the VIP there Indians have more purchasing capacity. So country is great you can be proud being an Indian today you are well respected. So that whole phase of your life with everything that happened at ASL effectively I think what has become public knowledge now is that there was some kind of political pressure there. It it caused that whole situation. Um I would also say that you were the whistleblower for the 2G scam. Yeah. Right. So as a result only I suffered last 10 years the auditor the CAG wrote a book in that he clearly writes that Estel was the whistleblower. Yeah. And everybody knows it. But who paid the penalty for whistleblower? I paid. I have not even traveled for last four years out of India because there were lookout notice. Only last week I received an order from Madras. I quote that I am permitted to travel. Uh first of all respect you know for you. I think you did the right thing. Yes. And you did it at a large cost of yourself. Yeah. Right. I sacrificed myself but I feel proud. I don't regret. You know there's a word in Hindi called panga. Panga. Have you heard this word? No. Means like you're taking on someone. Yeah. I always I'm I am panga. Panga. I'm not scared of panga. But you took a panga with corrupt politicians. Yeah. Effectively. And then they came back for you in some way. Yeah. People genuinely believe that I am responsible for all these 5,000 4,000 k liability which they don't understand. These are guarantees. M see I wrote a Tamil song which roughly translate the smell of the flower will be known someday so I'm waiting for my day the cases will be heard and the truth will prevail in 2024 the nation has a lot of questions about Ratan Tata sir literally remember him being an icon right from the time I was a little boy yes you know in the mid '90s uh and he's truly an icon you realize the value of a man often by the rea reaction that people have at the time of his passing and the reaction that the whole nation collectively had about Radhandatasur says a lot about the life that he lived. Uh but you met him every day for 7 years of your life. 7 years and before that we were friends on 28th of December. Every day I will call him whichever country I am in. Okay. To wish him a happy birthday. This 28th I can't see him. So I'm going they have invited me for a function to celebrate his birthday. So 28th I'll go there. On the day that we're recording this that means it's tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. I will go there for that function. We must speak about him. Yes. Could you tell me about the first time you ever met him and why? See the first time I met him in Singapore ridge call 10. He was waiting for a car and I was living in the same hotel in the presidential suite in Singapore those days. So I went and introduced myself. I said why are you standing here? He said s I'm expecting my car is delayed. So I told him let's have a water. So he said yes. So we had a water and then we agreed to meet. Then I met him in London. I met him in the plane. I met him in America. We kept on meeting. Who were you at this point in life? Like what what businesses were you running? No, I was running cellular business. I was doing all this. I was traveling actively. Okay. And then he was opening insurance business. Okay. With the AIG. He then explained to me that he is facing problem in the AIG insurance business because AIG was putting too many conditions. That time Mr. Frank Wisner when he was US ambassador in India I met him and his brother was a lawyer who was my lawyer so I told him that Mr. Retan this is the strategy and tactics you should do at the time Mr. Rangachari was the insurance authority so in Frankfurt airport I made Mr. Tata to talk to Mr. Rangachari and Mr. said he is willing to issue a license or insurance for Tatas even if AIG does not come. So that helped R& to negotiate much better with AIG. Then I went and met Frank Whistner in AIG office and then we closed the deal. After closing that Mr. Tata said every time I meet you I consult you for one matter this matter that matter. Why can't we have a meeting in our conference room? I will call all the CEOs of my group. Yeah. So he arranged the meeting. So I went to the head office. I addressed to all the CEOs. My program was what is my story as in what you presented to them? Yes. And then some of the people told Mr. Ta we need someone like this in our team who is also using lot of lateral thinking. Correct. So then I started and every day I used to go to Mr. Tata's house at 7:15 spend 45 minutes in discussing about various companies. 7:15 in the morning. 7:15 in the morning. So you did a lot of these breakfast meetings with him I'm assuming. Yes. Yes. No breakfast only tea. No, nothing tea. Ah, no. No. No. His breakfast was very poor. He will eat some scrambled egg. Okay. Okay. And you had tea. Yeah. That's it. And he will do we will make sure that you do exercise also to save time during the meeting. During the meeting one of the favorite exercise because we know that in future he is going to suffer with the stability issues. So we he was fully aware of the forward head posture problem he is facing. M we treated him for that in Boston with Bob Kulie. Okay, we arranged it. What happened? S won't have time and at that time the new house was only under construction. He lived in an apartment. Okay. So we used to go and my guys will do uh the physiootherapy and the exercise and the time we will talk also. Let me just do some context setting here again. So let's just say that initially you met Ratant Tatasur because you were also a very experienced business owner at that point life made you guys meet and then through your meetings he understood that you give very sharp consultation about his business yeah I have one skill I can help people easily find out what mistakes they do wow and then I can help to make the profitability by 10x I can make them to think differently and successfully and I can design a new products and services what can win in the market. Okay. So clearly Ratant Tata saw a lot of value in your proposition. Yeah. And eventually he said that no listen you need to talk to all the CEOs of the Tata group as well. Yes. Yes. Who am I sitting in front of sir? Yeah. Like so you've literally given business coaching to the CEOs of the data group and respect again respect I have so many business questions but I also have so many questions about Radhand data sir so actually let's begin with Rhdan data sir yeah please go ahead honoring his birthday which is tomorrow could you tell me about where he lived like how was the place it's ordinary threebedroom flat not well organized at that time and he himself will do everything. I'll give you example. He will not allow you to help. See that age he want to carry his own baggage and his requirements in life are very simple. He's a very simple industrialist. He lived life very simply. Simple but lots of thoughts. Lots of thought. How to grow India? That was his main mission. Yes. Yes. And nobody can influence him. Nobody can threaten him also. and he will comply all rules. When you're saying nobody can influence him, I think what you are trying to say sir is like because he was such a powerful man, people constantly wanted to get on his good side or try to change his decisions, you know, try to show their own importance in front of him. But you're saying that he had his own independent mind. Yeah. Yeah. But if you go and give data and explain why he has to change his decisions based on the data, he's open to that. M see for example I was with him in Paris he was doing training pilot training there was a note which argued that TCS should go for IPO and TCS should not go for IPO there are lot of confidentialities in that note so I won't discuss the note sure but I discussed with him that going public will help data group and temporarily It will create cash flow problems for the Tata sons. But in the long range on capitalization and everything okay that time only Infosys was a listed company. So I took a personal belt that it will reach 800 rupees within the number of days of listing. And then he came back after the training and approved TCS to go for public. He was fully sold out and the TCS share at that month itself reached after listing 800 rupees. Wow. And he took me to the most expensive Japanese restaurant that Todd has got and he treated wasabi and treated me. But I also took and treated him and his chefs when they achieved C reactive protein 005. So uh his blood report something showed correct and then this cook and his assistant subaya and Mr. Tata and I we went to that restaurant and I told him even though it belongs to today is my treat for dinner. Did you ever talk about things not related to business and work with all the time? So what did he like talking about? Anything. There's nothing that is forbidden to talk to Tata once you are closer with him once nobody is there. Of course he's kind of kind of people will be there. Okay. We used to go to Geneva for the motor show. We used to go to Spain and Barcelona for the telecom show. We used to go it in US and everything. He will talk about every subject. Yeah. What do you think he enjoyed talking about the most? Everything current affairs Henry kissing suddenly from Hillary Clinton to companies to car companies, steel companies, everything. Yeah. Do you think he was a happy man? He was happy in doing things happy. He found happiness in execution. Yeah. The only time he expressed his unhappiness before his death, I had a call where he took the call from his garden. that time he said sa I am not able to walk to the garden I don't have the energy that was the only depressing conversation I had with Mr. Ta and after that he's no more. So you're saying that his main mission in his heart was to help the growth of India. That's what he was driven towards and help also people. He wanted to help for all his pets. He wanted to help for common man. How did he take that whole phase of the legal battle with Cyrus, sir? He took it rightly. He got angry at all? No. No anger. Just calm. No see ta won't get anger his anger will be like a differently his principles was not accepted he will not cooperate he will fight you know you said that his main mission was to help Indian people yes can you list out those forms of help in about five or six points what did he stand for first you know he impressed Indians with the quality say for example you take salt Many people don't understand most of the food they fail in lab because the salt has got contamination in their food. Okay. What what any food you're talking any food tata whatever they wanted to supply they imposed qualities beyond the government regulations. See for example Tata group will not do anything that will harm people. M got it. And then they will not bribe 4 years TTSL could not get a license to cross the road in Tamil Nadu because he doesn't want to bribe anybody. Then when I came to know then I personally went and explained to the telecom minister who was responsible was handling the permission and then got a J done without paying any money and then the wire cost. Can you believe the world project was delayed three years because of that? Because of ethics and values. Ethics. Wow. See he demonstrated that without paying without paying bribe without influencing the government a group can survive. Yeah. Do you think he was happy with his own journey or he wanted to do more? So the implication that I derived is he is happy in life and happy was with the life. Happy with the life because he did what he wanted to do for other people. happy in life because he enjoyed what he wanted to enjoy. That is a lifestyle he chose. What did he enjoy? Work results. See, okay. It is very different. He enjoyed taking that cost on Sunday and coming for a round. Once in a week he has parked about seven eight cars. He will come to Taj M. I I had the opportunity several weeks to sit with him in the front seat. We will go around that Ora hotel make one round and come and then we take another car then do this. Wow. What car? All ordinary cost to extraordinary cars. So it would be a normal normal and not so normal car. Everything but whatever thing he enjoyed he really enjoyed. Got it. See one day he will say sa let's have an apple pie with the vanilla ice cream. He used to order. He will sit and enjoy. He took out the best from every moment. Yes. And the same happiness in the France in Paris in a restaurant he will enjoy. You see I only wish that I met Reta very early on in my life. See his life early life was not very lovable. His he was not happy with his father. So when his mother left and uh he had a lot of bad experiences in younger childhood that changed him to work for the society that strengthened him but as a person it has broken him. He ever spoke to you about it couple of times bit and pieces um you are currently living in Chennai right? Yes. But if I would not have made two mistakes in my life, today I will have 100,000 kuros. M can you tell me what is the two mistakes I made? One is that contract. No. Signing. No. Not learning Hindi. Not learning Hindi. Hindi. Yeah. If I would have learned Hindi, okay. I would have attracted the whole 140 people. Uh second, I should have moved to Delhi or Bombay when you were younger. Yeah, if I would have moved to Bombay or Chennai or Delhi and I would have learned Hindi, okay, I would I would have definitely made 100,000 Kasia. Wow, that's a billionaire speaking. Yeah, I've never heard anyone say that. Yeah. What was your first business ever? My first business was the fabrication. I did the equipments for thermal power station. I was competing BHL. How old were you? 24. How did you get the capital to begin at 24? I did a small work, made my first 12,000 rupees. That allowed me. See, I am not a guy who bothers money. Can I tell you a secret of me? Yeah, sure. I'm now 68 years. I have never borrowed 100 rupees from anybody in personal capacity. I want to attract money. I don't want to take a loan. So when you attract money, money flows. M uh can you speak from that 24 year old's perspective? Uh uh what were you doing between 22 and 24? Just thinking of good idea how to make money. You knew you wanted to do business in life. I want to do only business. See what is business itself? People have forgotten to be busy with an activity which makes money. You know I have some 26 year old brothers of mine. Yeah. Uh as in they're friends but they're like brothers. Yeah. They already think they old in life at 26 27. Yes. Because they might have worked hard and they not sleeping and they are not enjoying. No, no. They think that uh their time is gone to do something in life. No, no, no. Every day one door closes, two door is open. Yeah. Honestly, even I'm 31, 32, sir. Uh I think when you hit your 30s, there's a part of you especially as a guy where you start feeling younger. Yeah. You feel older in your late 20s than you do in your early 30s. Yeah. I don't know why that is. It could be because you are you are learning new things in relative to older thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Uh you feel very capable I think in your early 30s because you realize that yeah I've worked so hard in my 20s. I've obviously learned some skills. Now I can work more intelligently in my 30s. Correct. Rather than see when you become intelligent what takes 18 hours to achieve something you will do it in 5 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So it it kind of makes you hungry to reenter business again. Right. Yeah. Also when you have too much of experience you get wisdom. See till the age of 25 your brain is not supporting you to make outcomebased speaking. Uh can you tell me about your that first gig? How you made money at age 24? First gig as in first career opportunity. first carrier I was in institution of engineer as a student member to study some soil mechanics book at the time the when secretary ghinatra was there he came and said why can't you hire someone and make this girls faster because I want to have the show the live was looking at me so I went and met him and said I can make it happen and I did it I made my first 12,000 rupees effectively You figured that someone needs help with some particular project and then you went to people who could do the project. You said, "Hey, please do this. I'll pay you so much." And you sold it for a higher price. Beautiful. Yeah. This is what business is. Yes. Uh and then I also understood one thing. If you can dig deeper and discover the unmet needs of the people and convert that into a viable business proposition by exceeding their expectations in terms of price, performance, quality and delivery, you will be a winner. That's the basic formula for business at any age. Yeah. And after this, I trained my mind to be successful and then I was successful. Then I realized I am not training myself hard enough to dominate that area. Then what happened? Something got into Shiva's mind and I started training very hard. So my success is imminent guaranteed. But domination is questionable. Domination is questionable because I may dominate. See any business I want to come me becoming successful is already the 10. That is not a problem. I want to dominate. How do you do it? I do it because of my arrogancy and my persuasion, my ability to work hard, dig deeper and innovate, replicate, integrate. What about the younger entrepreneurs listening to this? They can also do it. And if they need help, all they need to know my email civio.com. Wow. I am here to help you. You'll mentor people. Yes. I want to mentor people free for small people. For rich people I want to mentor on their outstanding increased profitability. Suppose I come to you, you should be making about say 100 k I will help you to make,000 k in the 900 k more profit. Pay me a percentage. Wow. That is my business. Wow. You have your first client. Yes. Because people don't want to get cheated or delayed. What I want to do an outcome based business. What's your intention with this conversation? Like what do you want people to know? Sir, I want people to know whatever they dream they can actualizing. But I also want to teach them how to make their first 100 ko, first 100 cr, thousand kudo or 10,000 ko. Take a zero, put it as many zeros you want. You are the one. Place that one in front of the zero. If you are stupid to place that in front of only 40, you make 10,000. But if you are intelligent to put before 90, you make thousands. What do you sacrifice in that process? There is nothing to sacrifice. You brought nothing. It is bata. You came with nothing. You are not going to take anything. What you enjoyed is yours. What you have left is for others. There is no enemies. M and if someone comes and tells you one way to you I am your enemy make him as a friend so that you can screw him. We we don't we should not fight with enemies. We convert all our enemies into our friends. Then we put our hand and take the money from the pocket. Lovely. Enjoying this conversation. Any of these Zenzi guys want to make your first 100 K, come and work with me at an intern for 10 to 15 days or 1 month. I will change your life. Yeah. You know honestly sir when I look back so I graduated from engineering college. Yes. And every adult around me told me go for an MBA, go for an MBA and I didn't end up going for an MBA but I started all this and then I said what is the MBA you are referring? Masters of business administration. Okay. Okay. Because many world people when they come and meet me and say I am an MBA, they said married but available. So your MBA you are talking about education. Yeah. Education. Okay. But uh I didn't do my MBA. Yeah. Uh instead I just started YouTubing. I started associated businesses with it. So my advice to any Gen Z is usually begin with an internship. Yes. or begin with a very doable business to understand the basics of business with. I will share the secret. Sure. If there's any youngster, first he should choose the best five people with whom he can communicate as in best with whom he can talk about business, talk about life and everything. You know why you're saying find mentors? No, first find five people. Okay. Anyone your wealth will be only the total of that five. M. So you need to keep at least 1,000 cr guy or a 5,000 cr guy with you so that you add that it will come to that money. Set a goal. Most of our zeny people have noted set a goal because if you don't set a goal you won't reach there. See today you came to your office to do podcast with me. If you your goal is not come to your office would you have come to a office? No. The goal setting is such a important thing. But people don't set a goal because they have no experience in sitting and then people are worried that other people will criticize. If you set a goal and if you feel other people will criticize, don't share the goal to them but work on that every day. It is winning a goal is so easy. You do repeative action. You know you want to walk from Mumbai to Himalaya. What do you do? You put your left foot, right foot, walk, walk, walk. Million times you reach Himalaya. Yeah. So you're effectively saying choose five people around you who you can discuss business with and ideally one or two of them at least should be worth a lot of money. Ah yes. Right. Second, set a goal for yourself. Yeah. Third, work hard. Yeah. Fourth, if you're scared about criticism, then don't voice your goal openly. Yeah. Just keep working sideways. And what makes you to win in business is empathy and karishma. IQ will get you the job. EQ will get you the promotion. Yeah. I I and I see many people lacking in exactly this. You know, on a very macro level, it's about not understanding the end customer, not having empathy for the end customer. And on a micro level, it's about not having empathy about your teammates. Yes. You need to be able to manage people as well. Yes. Managing people is the only thing in life which makes you to win because otherwise you are selling your time. When you manage people, you sell their time to your advantage. Uh how many years did you run your that first business alone? Sir, my concept is little different. I wanted to live one life worth equal to 10 life. So I build business and sell it. Okay. Those time Indians could not understand it. This is 80s because I was the first guy to sell business. Yeah. At the time the whole India said civa is stupid to sell business. Now you know what India 2025 does. They all want to sell business. And I like our industrialist. The great examples of this country is you take Gautam Madani. Gautam Madani has demonstrated that without going MBA by entering Apple business or port business or any business are coming after so much of adversity he has won. I'm very curious to know people like yourself, people like Gautam Madani, what were their 20s and 30s like sir? Yeah. Like how do you look back at your 20s? See when I was 20s there were not opportunities like this. There was no communication like this. There were no encouragement. It was harder back then. Yeah. It's a very hard time. How do you make those business jumps? You still follow those same formula? Same formula. Uhhuh. Okay. See masala tea 50 years back same formula even now same formula same formula. Yeah. Why isn't everyone able to do it then? See Harvard school's business study says people improve if you they have two things. One is desire. One is you have desire. Now you need to learn to take some selling skill. Sell any damn thing. Go sell a service or product then you make money like learn sales skills a little bit. Yeah. Wow. Okay. And seek a customer and then figure out how to retain them. This is like dating a girl that requires a different skill. Then marrying and living as a husband require a different skill. Try to acquire both skills. Yeah. So how's your mental health been throughout this journey? I pay I am one of the crazy guy in India in 140 cr to pay attention to mental health. I call this as a software. See today I am loaded with the 2025 software. If you have mental skills and mental health is not good. It won't give instructions. I can give you a demonstration. The eye sees everything. I is a part of a neology system and then it converts into electrical signals. Suppose I want to touch this mic. It gives me instruction touch. It says both hands should touch. This is a neological test also. Sure. Yeah. So all these billionaires that you hang out with. Yes. How is their mental health? If you take Amanis, Dai Amani was a great financial genius. But Dai Amani entered into textile business already Nasi's family was 100 years in the same textile business. Yeah. M so what made him win his financial genius and then he motivated his two children like what's a financial genius means what like financial genius means see finance is the most important thing for you to be successful in business okay that consists of two things one is profitability second is cash flow management okay most of the companies on America goes bankrupt not because it is not profitable but because of because they've grown so fast and they cannot manage the cash flow. Explain through an example. Uh suppose you make idli you yourself make idli and sell so you are comfortable now everybody likes run idli so lot of demand started coming then you started hiring people now people are not paying for your idli same day it comes late then you are not able to manage the cash flow you go out of business so two things are important in any business success profitability and cash flow management. Wow. I think so profitability to a large degree even audiences understand. Yes. What kind of coaching do you want to give people on that cash flow subject? Cash flow subject people think understanding finance is the job of finance manager. There is nothing more stupid than that. The entire 140 population should understand about finance. The skill that actually makes Dubai rich. Yes. Anyone who understand finance, they win in their life. How do you begin to understand finance? It's very simple. Start learning today. If you don't know already, you need to learn how to read balance sheets. No, that is all very reading balance sheet and all is very simple. You please understand what is costing. Cost is not what you buy. Cost is like a activity based costing. the time it takes to buy, the time it takes to store, time it to get spoilage, the time you plan to buy at a cheaper price and sell it. For example, one time ITC bought onions for 4 rupees and stored it and sold it for 500 times more profit, 500%age. Okay, it's a very simple concept. Correct. And India is a big country. So you get nearly billions of opportunities to make money. I see money and wealth everywhere in India. Did you ever meet Dhub Amani? I met him. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very inspired. I have a great respect for him. Yeah. As do all of us. Yeah. Uh how old was he when you must have met him? I don't remember but I met him. I spent nearly 40 minutes and I had the pleasant memory of having tea. Oh wow. How was it hanging out with him? Very good. Karishma. lot of energy an attraction powerful eyesh one look he looks at anyone will agree with him even without speaking intimidating uh no pleasant pleasant but powerful powerful I had the privilege of meeting two people like that and one person resembles like you when I first met you this morning I was remembering meeting Raja Gandhi for the first time in his place full of karishma just with one white japa and the thing he met me he took over the house he spoke to me full charismatic leader wow I remind you of Rajiv Gandhi okay we look little similar that's why yeah no the same karisma you have okay thank you means a lot yes I think charisma is one of those things you develop because of the people you meet also also some of it is natural but a lot of it is based on the people you meet and I think charisma develops more when you keep your ears open and listen more than you speak. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um you've spent time with Rajiv Gandhi also. Yeah. You know, so in my generation, there's something we hear about Rajiv Gandhi and again this is not a political conversation. Yeah. Okay. This is not a BJP Congress situation. This is just a conversation about a human being. They say that if he wasn't assassinated, he would have taken India to a very different place. Absolutely. But whatever Raj Gandhi wanted to take India to a big different place today our prime minister Modi has taken. Yeah. You know one thing I envy about Mr. Modi I am not able to find a CEO in India who will work like our prime minister. Look at his schedule. Morning he wakes up. The only time he sacrifices yoga is when he wanted to visit his mother. Yeah. And he goes to his mother's funeral. And in the afternoon he goes for inauguration. See karma he practices to the core extent. He devoted his life for Indians. There's not a single complaint against him. Karm yoga yogi 100%. And I don't belong to BJP or the others or Congress. I am a businessman. So in 2025 Yeah. And I'm I'm being very transparent here. Okay. I have a lot of younger entrepreneur friends. Yeah. Who have openly voiced leaving the country because they don't want to deal with the politicians. No, no, no, no. They are stupid. There cannot be a pleasant life if you leave India. See, India is a spiritual country. Your happiness will go. See many people to save some illegally gotten money, they go and settle in other countries. Then you can ask me sa you also took a seashell's passport. I took a seashell's passport because to avoid cases I had lot of small swall petty problems with the politicians. I will not do if the climate was like this. Okay. If I am given a choice I will again take a Indian passport and leave here comfortably. I have a OCI card now. Yeah. Okay. I would not advise anybody to leave India and go. India is the future business. There are two countries which will have lot of wealth. One is India, second is China. And today all countries think about India in the business plan. M they think about Indians in the product services India. Okay. India is going to improve in the next five years tremendously while everybody is talking about 5 trillion economy. I am able to visualize a 50 trillion economy in the next 40 years in India. Wow. Yeah. This is based on your 30 40 years of business experience because here is a family system. Okay. Whatever improvements one you will take care of your mother today in India. In Abra there's no system like that. There's no family concept there. Yeah. And also look at the different kind of food available in India. To eat this food I need to be born seven times in India. And for healing, India is the best place. Yeah, I agree. Um, hypothetically speaking, if there's a business person who's growing, who's gone beyond 100 crores, is very ambitious in life, wants to become a billionaire. Um, at some point they will attract the attention of the world of politics. That will also change in the next five years. You know, all digital has been introduced. In the next 15 years, I visualize there won't be any number two money. No black money. No black money. Black money can be used only in toilet to wash. Okay. Black money will not be useful. And the legal system will become perfect. Yeah. You've interacted with MKesh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I interacted with Mr. MKkesh Amani. Anil Amani. Okay. Uh see Anil Amani knows finance better than anybody in India. So I am 100% sure Anil Amani is just broke now. He will come back with 50 billion and there are so many allegations unnecessarily with Mr. Gaamarani he will become like Elon Musk 300 billion 400 billion you are going to watch after 10 years you look at this episode you will appreciate me that I predicted 10 years back on what basis are you predicting it because every investment these people have put all infrastructure and the country is growing our people are becoming smarter our people are becoming good consumers India is consuming lot of things now Pardon this question. Okay. I'm just trying to I am willing to pardon any question. Go ahead. Even so, what what ended up happening in your case where you had to make the company file for bankruptcy. Yeah. When one goes through that on a professional basis. Yeah. You said that day that you wrote a game plan for yourself, right? But you're writing that game plan based on your network and your experiences and all your learnings, all your mistakes that you've had over the years. Yeah. That helps you craft that game plan. Usually where does that game plan begin? You have to make calls to your network. Yeah. Yeah. I have to make a call network knowingly that most of the people won't take my calls. See once you have fallen 95% of your friends will not respond to you. I'll tell you a joke. When I was having my $80 million plate, I have given loan to the plane to several people and given lift to 2,000 people. None of them helped me when I was fallen. Only two three people helped me. Rat and Tata was nice to me. Okay. And there is a friend I have Mr. Nadraan who is in STAM group. There's another friend Mr. Gurumuti. Then one of the editor Chamasami is dead. A few people only was able to help me, listen to me and motivate me. What did you learn about human beings? I have a full trust of them. Okay. So whenever I meet people and they say no, I don't take that as no till they say yes. I keep on trying. I believe in all human beings. Was it mentally tough for you at all? Every day morning I start I see problems. That day it is very important. The next day it becomes second important because new problem comes and you keep solving. It's not sad. It is life. See you follow stoic principle. You worry only what you it is under your control. If it is not under your control don't worry at all. You know this statement that has been used key losing a billion dollars and all that. Yeah. How did that make you feel? I had no attachment with money. I was having attachment with success and money is a byproduct. Success is my main product. So I said okay I will get one more success in that the byproduct will come. Wow. And what is money? Money I loved it because of the purchasing capacity. While many people stack the money in the Swiss bank account. I spent the money. Think like civa enjoyed the money. While we are in this topic, I want to tell you one thing. For 2025, all our viewers should do four things. First, do things what made you successful more. Then what has not made successful, stop doing or do less and do something new for 2025. Beautiful. This is billionaire mindset. Yes. You know people keep talking about billionaire mindset, billionaire mindset but it's a very Indian and nuanced billion mindset and visualize your success in advance. See one of the problem Indians don't do is they are not visualizing their success. See I visualize my success when I was studying in my 10th standard. I used to imagine I want to have a couple of cars and I want to build a building couple of floors. nothing I imagined one so much so when I went to see a girl to get married my father cautioned me this marriage you know you don't need numbers you only need quality so get one wife only so I got one wife and I'm so happy about it yeah there's a lot of stability that the wife brings in the journey right no yes what is the role of the wife in all this they are partner in your business and in your life uh because the last day when If you want to leave Reanvir, you are not going to complain that you should have come for your podcast earlier. You should have worked more than you will be looking at only your wife and you will realize you should have spent more vacations, more me time, more quality time. So when you get a chance spend quality time with your girlfriend, with your wife, with your mother, with your father and whatever your mother desires and wife desires, please fulfill that will give you lot of satisfaction. My father died when he is 93 years old. Now I can't fulfill any of his wishes. But I ensured that for 30 years whatever he wanted I will fulfill. Yeah. What was your conversation with your wife when this whole SL thing was happening? My wife supported it. You know, I'll tell you a funny decision. Boeing chairman, I and Retent Tata meet. Boeing chairman asked Retent Tata, please buy the plane. Retent data said, "Siva will buy the plane." And to get rid of it, I told Boeing chairman, if you can deliver a plane in one week, I will buy. He delivered it in one week. Then the only person that I spoke about this plane is with my wife, not with my staff or anybody. I asked her, "Am I doing a right decision, darling?" My wife said, "Please buy." I asked her, "Give me one reason why I should buy." No. If you buy this plane, you will use it for business and enjoy it. I am not looking at $80 million. This will allow my husband to enjoy the plane. So, please buy. Wow. I had a great wife and I have a great son. And you know, I'll tell you a real incident. I I bought MCM a house in America. I had a housekeeper. I appointed one American lady with $60,000 salary to look after the house. One day I came, nobody was in the house when she was there. And she had one son 8 years old. I was talking to him and sent him. And I told her that please encourage your son. He will come up very well. He said I want him to be like your son. I'm not worried about money. I then said what is that you like with my son? You see I live in America. When you make a call to this US house your son takes he sitting while talking in the phone you can't see whether he's standing. He stands and talks to you. That kind of respect your son gives. I want a son like that. So that made me proud. So I have a lovely son. I enjoyed him. I had a good wife. I enjoyed other things I enjoyed. It is not for podcast. What is the best gift you've ever given your wife? See that is a very difficult thing. I gave myself I looked after my wife's heart better than my heart. That is a gift. Wow. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Because my wife cannot be made with any money. M you know as as I grow older even I'm realizing this especially when I meet people like yourself because so many of us younger guys want to get successful. Yes. But uh this is so beautiful sir. I think she's your motivation also right? Yes. She stood with me all the problems. Yeah. Even when the world left. The world will not leave. That is a mistake. People think the world was never with you. You are assuming that the world is with you. The world is never with you because nobody is bothered about you or your company. It is all when people say I love him. I love the company. It is all people's lives. They love themselves and that is the right thing to do. It's human nature. And if you are useful to them, they will continue to love you. When you guys sat in that private jet Yes. And you know look back at the years of growing steadily going through whatever you all went through. What did you all talk to each other about? The peculiarity of my wife is she has not put any value for money. So money was not our discussion in the family. See we will all eat together. My wife will cook. We never discussed money in the dining table. Money is a byproduct. Success was the main product. Yeah. See, when you focus on byproduct, you fail in success. No industrialist, no politician is focusing on a byproduct. Is there any politician you heard in Bombay or in Chennai that I want to become a chief minister because I want to make 30,000 kum per year? No. I want to build the state. Yeah. You know there was a king who asked a poet how do I improve? The poet said the field should have water then the plant will raise and that will raise the people and when people raise the king raise beautiful empower others. Yeah. So your wife was a great wife right? Yes. What did she do for you that you think she's a great wife? She put my head in the right place. That for a businessman there will be always a conflict between the head what says and the heart what he feels and the only person who can help you to put correct in that situation is your wife because she knows you better than your parents also. Yes. Now the parents also knows but parents somehow after you get married they give you freedom to do it together. That is why your housewife is a partner both in business and thing. I sincerely feel MKkesh Amani's success is also can be contributed how well his wife managed the family. Yeah. Look at Amani. And his mind as well. Yes. Right. Yeah. Have you ever spoken to him about this? No. But it's an understood thing. I think in the billionaire world you rarely see a successful man who does not have some kind of stability in family life it's no no all successful families have got stability you take Mr. Mahadani he has a beautiful family. The children are now taking and running. Yeah. What keeps all these people going sir? Like why do they keep growing in life? Because the they have a moving ambition. They have a moving goal. See one goal you attend then they move for the next goal. See if the same principle everybody adopts people will win. See when you do something and you are satisfied with you are a dead man for the next day for you to be alive you need to come out with a new goal. Yeah. Can I tell you one random unrelated thing? Yes. You know scand I've started doing muruga like prayers. Very good. Please come to Chennai. I will take you to all the six muran temples. Allocate a day. Come with your friend. Then I will take you to six mudan temples. My son name is Sada. Sada means mud. Oh wow. Okay. As you keep praying to a particular dity, you feel certain traits of that dity. Yeah. Your speed will impu, your happiness will improve. Physical energy also. His physical energy will impud. Yeah. It's it's kind of like Hanumanji but slightly different. Yeah. Um where I'm going with this is there was a phrase that Rajashi Nandi told me about scand. He said that it's one of the most masculine deities and he said that every time you're feeling even a little unsure about yourself do the prayer to give you speed. Yeah. And he's like especially you know when you're in a missionoriented part of your as I'm speaking to you I feel a lot of that Muruga energy. Thank you. But as you mentioned Anuman I want to tell you one thing for business how Anuman reported after visiting Sitha in Sri Lanka. He said He said seen in my both eyes chity it's a very good communication subject for business so when you do something understand the essence so after studying Ramayana for two months I took a break I came out how to choose employees with the eight qualities do you want me to tell please please first choose an employee who will understand what you say Then whatever he understood he should keep it is in his head. Then whatever he keeps it in head he should bring it back whenever he requires. Then he should develop a skill to explain you in a way that anyone can understand. Then he should understand the essence of the thing. And then if people show their intelligence in wrong way they should understand. And then we should know what is in their mind without they telling. M if you find any employee who fulfills this please pay him one of salary and keep him with you you are sure of winning career learning from the Ramaya yes Ramayana if you can follow Ramayana you will win in anything you know you keep speaking about Arjuna mindset also yes yes see to understand I saw Bhagat Gita in your receiving room see the first thing that helped me to bhabad is to understand Bhagat Gita. You need Arjuna state of mind. I will tell you why. If you are thirsty, you appreciate water. If you are hungry, you appreciate food. If you are under the sun, you appreciate air conditioning. So, you need to have ajuna state of mind. So, you understand which is a self-improvement oriented state of mind. You need to want to jump to the next level. That's when in another words you follow empathy and karishma and praise us all together by understanding Arjuna. Why is it that all the billionaires that I've met through the show through life they are all into Mahabharat Ramayan because that is the only way they made the billion see let us assume yeah that I am real God Shiva and I have some$undred trillion money to distribute. I need to set a qualification you know for whom I want to give. Wow. So you're saying so I actually read this quote in autobiography of a yogi. Yeah. It said that both money and fame are toys in the hand of God. Yes. Right. And whenever God wants his presence to be felt in someone's life, he'll throw some money at them. He will reward you. Yeah. Take take child in order to do your karma better. M see I sincerely felt whenever I made money God is making me comfortable only to serve the society. I hear you. I am so lucky I had the best food. Part of my health is very good in 68 years is because of the 40 years of good food I took. Okay. You don't look 68. You look like much younger. Thank you. Even energy levels I would tell you 68. No, my energy level is 80. My problem is over energy. In the night time, my watch will say in one and a half hours you are going to sleep. You cut down your energy. So basically I go and take a hot shower. The body has got two core body temperature. One is the skin temperature, one is a thing. And it will dump the heat and prepare me for my sleep. Then I black out my bedroom and don't look at blue lights for two hours. And then I do meditation for 10 minutes. I bring down my heart rate and sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Same. What were your mistakes like in your eyes when you look back at your whole career? My mistake is very simple. I never thought that I have skills to build powerful enemies which now I see that I have built powerful enemies. And second, I have not spent time in analyzing who can harm me. I only realized when the home was in fully placed and I always believed that government will come and help me for reason unknown to me. I thought you know like Ramayana when Ramen pressed the squirrel. Okay, squirrel was not making any noise. So Raman realized he is pressing the screen. So he asked why you are not making noise. It said when other people press me I will say Ram Ram save me but Ram itself pressing me for whom I call actually I never imagined in my life that government will press me so I'm not able to call anyone all these days you know I had a wrong notion since I'm very transparent I'm doing business I am helping India and everything the government will protect me and I still believe somewhere in my mind when my case is finally heard in the court, the judiciary system will help me and the government will help me at that time and sometimes I feel all this problem came to me for getting more happiness. See I bought a shoe when I was young one time in Switzerland. I like it a bal shoe. That guy gave me half size less but when I removed the shoe I was so happy. 10 minutes I asked it myself why the hell I'm happy because it was hurting me. So now I have land to be happy without money also. What was the most expensive purchase you had made? One island I bought houses. I bought island in near India. Yeah I own one uh I used to own now no longer I sold. I bought two islands in seashells. Oh wow. The entire island is mine. Damn. And then I bought a house in uh seashells, America, Canada, London. What was in your heart? See, I want to make palm oil. I want to be the world largest producer of palm oil. So I took a globe mac where the way the equator goes. I bought land. I bought 200,000 acres of land in Papagini. Oh wow. To grow and I bought in Argentina olive farm Australia. I bought olive farm Africa. I bought lot of land and started cultivating palm. So like I was a crazy guy. But you're still in that business. No, I filed bankruptcy, you know. Okay. Got it. Now when I came to India, 7,000 cr was a liability of my family company. My father was running and I came to help him. I took the burden. I promised my father I will sort out all these things. Now I am at the last 360 cr this minus 7,000 to this minus 300 that how did you do this journey? I sold all the assets I lived in a fancy house 524 crores sold it sold all my properties moved to a hotel where I get adoam ado is return on management. What is that? See how suppose you spend 1 hour and you achieve how much? So in that one hour if you can achieve you repeat. Okay you're saying economics of time return on management time. Ah okay. See money you can get it for interest. So you want 5,000 K you can borrow depending on your rating. If it is Amanis they will get at 5%. If it is adanis they will get at 6%. If it is one then sa we will get it at 14%. Okay. And then we do a transaction and take the difference. Got it. So you know we were speaking about that day where you made the game plan to make your money again. Yes. Obviously a big part of that game plan is also uh raising capital for whatever you're planning next. No raising capital you will never win when you fallen. Then you have to attract the capital. How do you attract? See, it is like learning a language, acquiring a language. You attract because people are all greedy. See, as I told you, people are born with foolishness and think one of the issue for human beings is greedy. They are looking for always a higher level of income than what it is entitled. That is why people go and invest in stock market. Correct. Okay. So if you can explain your idea which can be replicated all over. See take see tomorrow once I finish this 360 ko I will go and attract equity from doctors. So I will tell any doctor out of these 18 lakh doctors 600 doctors please help me with 1 cr equity. I will help you to get two k worth of consultancy business and then I will give you equity when I go for IPO you will make 600 k so they'll be easy to put first they invest only one k they get back 2 kores in consultancy itself and then they get 600 kuh so it's easier for me to invest but they have to be qualified investors if I take money from people who will not give me customer but they are willing to write a 600 kot check that is not useful to me. Got it. Wow. Okay. So this is your experience and people are investing in your business based on your track record. No not only track record based on my ability to win in that particular product or service. Understood. Understood. See your past track record does not guarantee your future success. Your past failure also does not prevent you to get a future business. Understood? See, if you are a author, you are only as good as the last book you wrote. If you are a movie actor, you are only as good as the last movie which was successful. Wow. Yeah. Very interesting knowing about these perspectives. This is not some thing you learn about in school or college. No, no. I am ready to teach the entire 140 people. My job is to mentor ordinary people to become rich people. How did it feel buying an island? Because I wanted to feel that I am like my own country republic of CA. See long time I don't know the reason I had five desire. I wanted a country of residence in all continents. So I bought it. Okay. Got it. Understood. And I always want to build a business and sell it. Because I want to enjoy my life by experience. You said you were in a house which was worth more than 500 crores. 524 crores. I had 71 bedrooms. Uh 71 rooms out of which you used in Chennai. I bought a 14 acre house in Fremont, California. Oh wow. You can check 44896 Vista Del. Beautiful house with a helipad and everything. I bought the best house which won the best house award in Canada. Oh wow. In the salt spring island. All my neighbors were widows with the minimum of 1 billion because once the Canadian rich people die, the widows come to that island. I came to know about this only after buying it. I had a 25 acre house. But do they have neighbors culture there? Hey neighbor, what's up? Yeah. How's your billion dollars? Yeah. Nobody see the funny thing in the salad when I go in the car blueberries, blackberries, strawberries all in the road, nobody will bother. You can stop the car and you can pluck. Oh. Uhhuh. And I took asparagas from the tree itself and eat it. And cherries I eat from there itself. Wow. Where is this in Canada? Uh Vancouver. From Vancouver it is a thing. I'm very curious about your Chennai house. Yeah. You said 524 crores and 71 rooms. And then they demolished. They demolished it. Yeah. Then I bought back half of that house. Now I have a 2 acre plot, but I don't want to build a house now. First I want to solve all the problems, make my money, then build. What was the craziest thing in that house of yours? Everything was crazy. We never I never lived a normal life in my whole life. Yeah. Because every day I enjoy my life as if this is the last day of my life. Can I tell you one thing on a very brotherly level and not? Yes, please. I love how extreme you are in some ways, you know, in a good way. I'm saying that. Yeah. No, in a bad way also, good way also. Say actually I'll tell you there is nothing called good or bad. Yeah. In every goodness there is some little badness. Every badness there is some little goodness. Does money buy happiness? No. But money is essential for happiness. How does tension feel in that world? You know, where there's a big house, there's good cars, there's good food, services, but one has to still deal with the tension of business. Yeah, you are used to it. See, for example, I can show you my things to do list. I have right now 33 problems and next month it may become 51 or it may become 71. Just keep doing keep doing. You're in a state of flow. Keep doing execution. See businessmen success only depends on repetitive action. You are the politician learn to speak. Same thing. Keep on speaking. If you are the musician keep on singing till you die. If you are the actor like Amitab Bachan keep on acting. M wow. There's no alternative. Effectively, it's your craft, right? Focus on the craft because you are no longer working or living for yourself. You are living for yourself and for others. Why did you buy houses abroad just I like it because I used to go to a favorite shopping place called Costco. When I go as a visitor, I buy everything in large volumes and then I don't have a place that I can't bring. So I thought if the house is there, I will enjoy I I like it. Larger houses, big swimming pools, outer things. Did you enjoy it? I enjoyed. I enjoyed everything. I'm a very peculiar guy. How did your parents feel about all that? They felt happy. They saw me happy. They felt happy on some level now. I mean, I don't know if you also feel the same. I'm just trying to get to know you. Just want to be a good man, you know, in life. I allow this. Yeah. I think that's the core intention behind everything and I bless you to have all of this. Thank you sir. The only difference I have with you is I don't have patience to wait for next 20 years for you to achieve. Please do every damn thing in 5 years. Yeah. No thank you sir. Definitely I'll tell you this conversation something shifted inside me as we move forward in this conversation. I think we've reached almost the end of it sir. Very good few questions after doing so many businesses. Yeah. You also started barista right? Yeah. That's crazy. Like I've been going to barista since I I was like 4 years old, 5 years old. Yeah. Can't believe I was drinking the coffee that you designed in your Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because in India, nobody knows Espresso at that time. I used to drink in Switzerland. So I brought them I introduced them in Indian railway station for 10 rupees. And then I sold my company for $100 million to Italian company Lavasa. I mean sir like you've run so many businesses successfully. Yes. What was that business where you said you did underwater cable from America? Yeah. Yeah. Submarine cable. I put it for 1.2 billion. Submarine cable. And you know the data that you speak it has to come. Fortunately that company Tao Tatas bought it. This is internet right like it's internet cables which will lay under the ocean. After seeing me only so metal also put one cable. Reliance put one cable. Now India is well connected. Now India's data is 1/5th of the world data. Now because we had a good rule that our data cannot be taken away from India. Now there are so many places here cloud computing in India is useful. What do you learn about the ocean when you go about that business? See the ocean is measurable death. I'll tell you a joke. Some place of ocean is only 80 m 100 m death. But some place it is 10,000 m. So we put a cable and the data has to be repeated. So we put a big repeaters and anytime cable cuts one cut will cost me $600,000 to fix it. That's the challenge of that business. And how does it get cut? Oh, by the trollers or by fishermen non-intentionally. You learned anything about marine life when you were doing Yeah. Yeah. Like what we can have a separate podcast for marine life but if you like good thing you go to and go near sink island you will be able to see beautiful marine life you come to seashells for thousand miles we don't have any human beings so there is no uh chemical pollution that we are putting in the water it's a clean ocean so you can see wow uh and there is no pollution at all there. Now almost the end of the podcast sir, it was very inspirational conversation you know on so many levels. Uh they often say that one doesn't learn much from success but one learns a lot from failure. See one thing I need to explain to you. You can learn from failure. You can learn from success. If you are smart please learn from my 50 years experience what mistake you should not do. Because it is not that you should you want to do mistake and land you do a different mistake. Okay. But for the viewers the takeaway should be three things. Change your thinking and change your life. Push yourself hard for action. The only person who can help you is you and your health. You can get 80 marks free just by breathing and sleeping. Yeah. Okay, one last question for today. Let's break down this last point because I keep saying this to a lot of younger content creators. Yeah, people asking that what do you think has helped you survive over 9 years, you know, because in content careers get over in 3 years. We've been here for 9, we intend on being here for 10 more years at least. Um I always say that I've taken a lot of care of my physical health and I feel like my physical health gives me energy to perform. No, actually you're not telling it correctly. You took care of your mental health. Yeah. Your mental said please take care of the physical health. Yeah. True. Your brain health was good. Okay. Otherwise it won't. Then there is a inbuilt advantage for you. You are able to focus. Most of the other people after two three years they become defocused. So to win what do you need? You need customers. You are focusing on customer. Then you need to understand who is your competitors that you need to fuel your business. You need profit. You need to pay salaries. Then you need to focus these four words. If you practice any business, you will be successful. It's why the arrow Yeah. Arjuna mindset. Yes. U finally for the genzies watching this sir. Yeah. From a health perspective. Yeah. What's your input? I will give you four things. My favorite item first time I want your viewers to view is orange sweet potato please take because it has more vitamin difference you know how much time,410 times imagine if you take 100 g of this sweet potato it is equivalent to 1,000 kilos of other potato. M. So please take this. Then sweet purple potato you take. Antoan is there. Then please take wood dal with the skin. Make a black Italy without removing the wood dal in the italy with the skin and then add green apple cut into pieces and put it in your doll. That will create enzyme for your body. Please test and clear your vitamin D. It is co-actor for 200 functions. And in order to eliminate and get a good skin and your brain protection everything, please don't smoke, don't drink and take four grams of omega3 every day because you are consuming seed oil. Next one, your body is producing only three grams of glycine but you need 13 grams of glycine. So take 5 to 10 gram of glycine and take a magnesium because that is co-actor for 500 functions in your body. Okay. And please walk for 30 minutes. Okay. And then another advice for young people jenzi in order not to get diabetes please consume most of your calories before 5:00. True. or once in 30 minutes walk for 2 minutes. Sitting leads you to cancer. If you sit continuously for 8 hours a day and not active, there's a 53% you will develop cancer, diabetes. Yeah. You know, I think my main input here is that Jenzi needs to understand that if you want to own the islands and the multiple houses, actually this stuff is the core of it. Yes, they will. Why they should own only island? They can moon anything. All they have to dream. And if you if you don't know how to dream, open your eyes and dream. That is called fantasy. Beautiful. You can actualize it. Take action. Shiva sir. Yeah. I hope this is not the last time we do an episode with you. You know, I would I would love to do so. No, no. I will I will come for the next episode and I will tell your viewers how they should gain 43 lakhs 30,000 seconds in their life that is equal to 15 years of life. Wow. They can extend by spending only 10 rupees. Okay. Okay. Good conversation for you. Thank you. Good conversation. You had fun. Fun. Okay. Thank you. I'm just glad we got to put your face out and I'm glad on a human level I got to meet you in person. Yeah. No problem. So thank you. lot of gratitude and I feel like you know sometimes when I'm praying to God at night I always pray that you know how when we were growing up sometimes you just had the right presences enter your life you had like maybe an elder brother a cousin someone you met through football or cricket and they guide you so I have that with the show as well in the people of 7 billion I had the fortunate thing to meet you no no same I also think like that okay God gives the connections yeah I I pray for this you know these kind of days. So just very grateful to you and by meeting you I feel God has answered a few of my prayers. No problem. Thank you. Thank you. Beginning that was the episode for today ladies and gentlemen. Uh it's always been one of my intentions to bring out business lessons, bring out life lessons through great Indian stories just like this. Make sure you follow Shivasur's handles. We'll link them down below. Follow all his work on IO Health and spread the word about this particular podcast. I think there's a lot of podcasts that cover the success stories of people, but it's also very important to get to know the difficulties that great human beings have faced over the course of their life. All the love and support to Shasa and everything that he does. I think that he's only beginning to bounce back in life. Hope to host Shasa on the show once again because he's one of those human beings that has an infinite number of lessons held within his mind, heart. Thank you for listening in. This was our Indian business special on TR. [Music]