You are listening to an art media podcast. It's 1000 p.m. on Sunday, May 18th here in New York City. It is 5:00 a.m. on Monday, May 19th in Israel as Israelis start their day and anticipate the possibility of or even movement on a new hostage ceasefire deal. Over the past 24 hours, there has been a lot of press reporting in Israel about a possible deal or near deal to include anything from the release of up to 10 hostages for a temporary ceasefire, perhaps for 40 to 60 days, or the release of all hostages and Hamas having to leave Gaza as an end to the war. At this point, the possibilities range between no ceasefire all the way to an end to the war. So, while we are eager to report on these developments, we also don't want to rush to report on what so far appears to be just rank speculation. After all, you'll recall last week's histrionic news reports. For those listening, I'm putting news reports in quotes that President Trump would be meeting Palestinian Authority President Mahmud Abbas in Riad. or that President Trump would agree or acknowledge Saudi Arabia's condition for Palestinian statethood as part of any normalization deal with Israel. None of these things wound up happening. Now, a lot did happen in the Middle East last week, and we do believe something may happen in these hostage deal negotiations. So rest assured, we are monitoring events closely and we will drop an episode on all of this as soon as there is something we believe that warrants analysis, even if it's not on our regular schedule. One thing we know is that during a cabinet meeting today, Prime Minister Netanyahu approved resumption of humanitarian aid into Gaza. The Prime Minister's office issued a statement saying that quote this was the recommendation of the IDF and due to the operational need to enable the expansion of intense fighting to defeat Hamas. Close quote. And the IDF's operations into Gaza, its military operations have been moving forward while negotiations are taking place in Doha. And it does appear that the IDF successfully killed Muhammad Sinoir last week in an underground command compound below the European hospital where he had been sheltering. Muhammad Sinoir was the de facto leader of Hamas in Gaza, the successor to his brother Yakya Sinir, the architect of October 7th. And so while President Trump was in the Sunni Gulf last week, the IDF at the same time seems to have been systematically pursuing a strategy of knocking off what remains of Hamas's leadership. So keep your eyes and ears open for an emergency episode in the next couple days. In the meantime, I have been moved by the reaction to my speech at the annual State of World Jewelry Address, which we played in the last episode. If you haven't listened to it, highly recommend you do listen to our last episode of Call Me Back. In part two of that evening, which was at the 92nd Street Y, I sat down with Rabbi David Inber following my address for a conversation where he picked up on some of the ideas from my talk to probe some more and to push me on some of the issues I raised. Rabbi Ingber is the senior director for Jewish life and the senior director of the Bronman Center at 92 New York 92nd Street Y. He also serves as the founding rabbi of Ramamu, a congregation on the upper west side of Manhattan. And he serves on the faculty for the Waxner Heritage Program and the Shalom Hartman Institute of North America and Israel. Finally, Rabbi Ingber is the host of the podcast called Detours and Destinations, which is hosted by the 92nd Street Y, and you can find that podcast wherever you get your podcast. We'll link to it in the show notes. Rabbi Inger is one of the most thoughtful and one of the most contrarian thinkers I know, and he's one of my teachers, so made this conversation especially interesting. I hope you'll enjoy it. The state of world jury at the 92nd Street Y part two. This is call me back. So I want to begin with um thanking your wife for giving you the time to work so hard on that amazing You know what she said? She said that she now has a sense for what it's like at your home before Cole Dre. Yeah. So she says she says like it's it's a lot of work working on a preparing I know Ramy's like state of the world jury every high holidays. That's what we do. Exactly. Yeah. Well, you know, I I think for a lot of us tonight, you know, you threw a curveball. I think a lot of us were expecting you to come out, Deanna, and and talk about what you usually talk about, what's in your BYU, like in your, you know, your sweet spot. and and you took us on a on a journey, an unexpected journey. You know, Israel in your mind at this moment counterintuitively is super strong having come out of this hellacious last couple of years and continuing with some 58 of our hostage still there. But still you the you left that and moved from what my friend Rabbi Mishelion used to call the two Zions like the Zion right in Israel and Zion here. And you brought us on a journey into a much scarier proposition which is the strength of North American Jewish life in the aftermath of uh 107 and 108. Just just you're not alone in in signaling and and and raising this banner. This has been like part of the Jewish community struggle for a number of years, decades, uh, assimilation, acculturation, accommodation, all of those. Um, why why tonight did you focus all of our energies uh here in our communities? And why did you raise those alarm bells for us? Soon after October 7th, there was an event uh in New York for raise money for one of the volunteer efforts. And um they had brought in it was it was Israelis living in New York who were who were raising money for these relief efforts. And um they had brought in the Israelis for their guest speaker Leor Ross the the star of Fa the co-creator of FA and he and I met uh while he was in for that to get together and I said how are you doing? How you holding up? And he said how am I? How are you? And I was like what do you mean? He's like, "We're going to be okay. I mean, we're shattered. We're at war, but you're under attack." And Israelis were watching what's happening here. And it's the first time they had ever seen the diaspora under siege like that. I think it's the first time Israelis had really thought what it means, you know, mikon. That's what peoplehood. I think it worked both ways. I think the Israelis were looking at us saying we're under siege. And then I rattled off for him all the different things that we were doing, the different advocacy efforts and the rallies and the and you could just tell he was it there was something missing like that that's not that's important and I still believe it's important but I just as I was talking I was like listening to myself and thinking this is not enough. And then another conversation I hear a lot. not one of the ones I mentioned in my list of most popular questions I get, but I often hear from parents who say, "My kid's on a college campus. There are basically pilgrims on the campus and my kid doesn't care." Meaning, he's not sympathetic to the anti-Israel protesters. He's just ambivalent. He's apathetic. He just doesn't care. and they're like perplexed that this could be, you know, once I start asking questions, it's very clear that this kid was not raised right with anything Jewish. And what I mean by anything Jewish is they didn't get the joy of Judaism. They weren't raised with the ritual and the community and the and the literacy that comes with living somewhat of a Jewish life, which is what I call the like the upside of Judaism. So if you never had the upside of Judaism, then when Judaism Judaism is under siege, don't blame a kid for like not wanting to stick his or her neck out to defend Israel or defend the Jewish community. And it just became increasing. I'll tell one other image that I have in my mind. So I I should say it because it's such a the story of the subway. I I told in the beginning you told the beginning. Yeah. The beginning of the speech. The story of the subway. If you're a Zionist, you know, get off the train, right? The correlary to that is another one of my favorite subway images that was flying around social media which was Ishi Rebo. You know Ishai Rebo, the Orthodox Jewish pop star, rock star in Israel, right? Yeah. He came to speak, he came to perform at Madison Square Garden. And um after the concert, there were all these Jews like just that had taken literally taken over the subways in a good way, not in a bad way. And they were all wearing yarmakas where you know singing the songs in unison. Loud and proud. It was pure joy. And I was thinking as I watch it, these are kids who have been raised with the sense like a real Jewish identity, the real like the real core. And and of course it wouldn't be surprising that those are the kids who are likely who are going to go out there and defend Israel from unfair criticism. So I just look at like the people who are sticking their necks out. They're the ones who've lived the most rich Jewish lives. It's something I've experienced. Not necessarily like the kids on that who were at the Ishi Rebo concert, but I've just seen what a Jewish life, right? And not as observant as yours, I should say. Well, wait a second. Wait a second. Okay. Okay. No, but I but I've just seen what Shabbat has done for our family. How it fortifies and strengthens. I've seen what a real being part of a real Jewish community has done. I have seen what the Jewish the Hebrew calendar has done for our family. I have seen I have watched when people are in mourning what Judaism that that they're like the best technology invented in Judaism for how to comfort people. Um I see how I try to make sense of the world often by these ancient texts that can inform how we think about the world. Um you know like I see these I I see kids the most amazing thing is we we develop kids Jewishly until they turn 13. Yeah. And then at 13, we say, "Okay, you're done. You're done. You had your bar mitzvah and you're done. No more Jewish education." And you actually turn off the faucet, right? At the exact time that young people are most primed to learn, right? And what happens is I I'm always struck when I talk with kids and they're like, "Oh, I'm taking this great Eastern philosophy class at Northwestern University and I'm so moved and it's got me to think so smart and so much wisdom there." And you realize you are inheriting you are inheriting the most incredible philosophy, the most amazing text and we and so we need to keep fighting the fight against anti-semitism, but the biggest victory after anti-semitism if that's what everyone is so focused on is to continue to lead a flourishing Jewish life at scale. And that to me is the ultimate antidote to this period. So I mean I I mean I have to pinch myself to to to like this moment like a Shehana moment is a blessing for having arrived at this moment. Here we are talking about the state of world jewelry and we're essentially talking about things that rabbis and educators have been saying for decades which is like rabbis have been saying how do we get people more involved Jewishly like it's kabad is incredible they do incredible work in the world but what about other alternatives to kind of positive Jewish engagement essentially you're doubling down on like negative identity formation is one thing um you know the famous philosopher American actually Canadian and Israeli philosopher David Hartman David Hartman spoke spoke of two polarities in Jewish life. Achvitz kind of negative Jewish identity formation based on anti-semitism and that which the world kind of refuses to let us forget be Jewish. So and then the other polarity which is Sinai the notion of you know revelation and positive possibilities and wisdom and all the all the technologies that you referring to like so I'm just amazed to hear us speaking about positive um Jewish identity as the great bow work against against against the madness. Against the madness but but the Jew Jewish ideas have often been the ball work against the irony that's happening in the last two years which is like we just at least have to note it here that the Jewish community spent literally hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars on Birthright Israel and put all of our eggs into the Israel basket and thank God we did. how many literally how many thousands upon thousands of of young people were influenced by positively by being able to walk as you said in a gap year or an experience the birthright. But what we didn't do effectively was birthright Judaism. Yeah. What we didn't do effectively to what you're saying is create a a a kind of when you come back here into the assimilated universe of uh you know of America of North American Jewish life, we we need to buy you a a one-year synagogue membership. I mean, we didn't talk about synagogues at all. And maybe that's a good thing because because you belong to mine, so I understand why we're not talking about it. But but well, I can I say you're right. I agree with that. I would also add another area we have spent an exorbitant amount of money on and you and I have talked about this. Darra Horn has written extensively about this is on Holocaust education which I don't want to say it's totally failed but you cannot think of a of a single period of history behind which more government and philanthropic dollars have been expended than educating trying to educate the public about the Shawa. Now, in terms of countering Holocaust denial, at least having that record is important, but the lessons of the Showa and it's it's clear. I mean, it's really clear that as I cite a Kanye West song that's called Hail Hitler. I mean, I can just the language of this moment is all Holocaustian. And I and I think so. What bothers me about it is we've Jewish education about how to teach non-Jews about Judaism has been so focused on the Holocaust. It's as though we have left people to believe that the totality of Jewish history happened between 1933 and 1945 and that nothing happened after and nothing happened before. So you wonder why we have these ridiculous debates, ridiculous debates, indulge ridiculous debates about whether or not Israel has a right to exist. I mean it's a very interesting thing, right? We don't say that about any other country, right? We have problems with Iran's policies. We have problems with Turkeykey's policies. We have problems with China's. No one ever says we need to discuss whether or not China has a right to exist. Right. And and and yet with Israel, we indulge this. We get into it. We're like, well, there was the Peel Commission and then there was and we like indulge this conversation as if it's still up for grabs. Exactly. Which is like that's a really interesting conversation. You maybe want to share it with the 10 million Israelis because if Israel doesn't have a right to exist, where are these people go? and the overwhelming majority of diaspora Jews who according to survey after survey selfidentify as Zionists. So, you know, what what does it mean for them? But we indulge this debate, I think, in part because we really do act like Jewish history kind of ended at 1945 and and and then and then we're here and now we're in Gaza, right? And so like that's and we've completely so Horn I think made Dar Horn made this analogy to um the the African-American history museum in Washington DC because imagine the African history American history museum was you just walked in and it was just like the history of slavery and you left. Right. Right. It's they don't do that and yet we don't spend time educating people about the entirety of Jewish history and I and we don't do it with Jews either. Right. And that's the that's the le I mean the living museum is is this is the sided the prayer book. The living museum is walking into a synagogue or into a Jewish center and seeing Hebrew and seeing a muza. I mean a muza is itself the the most profoundly important expression of our of our Jewish story, our Jewish history, who we are, what our values are. And so we're living it and and so your call to more positive engagement is really profound. I I just want to Can I ask you a I'm sorry. I know. I've been talking for a while and I normally used to ask the question, but I want one more question before you ask me a question. Okay. Because because it's like I'm out of my comfort zone. I know. I know. It's like you have to actually interview somebody like you know you get like a withdrawal. Anyone can anyone can I interview anybody? Yeah. Plenty of people were asking me before if they could come up and let you interview them. So um you know there was a joke in my family that uh went something like this. the uh the you know this mother comes to the rabbi of the community and says you know rabbi you have to do something my son is at home and he's studying Torah all day and praying all day and it's scaring us and the rabbi said well you know Mrs. Goldberg what's the you know he says no rabbi it's really all day all night all day all night the whole thing he says I don't understand that's a mitzvah it's it's a spiritual commandment it's a it's a practice and so then Mrs. Goldberg said no but rabbi really it's it's a bit too much and she said listen finally the rabbi says listen Mrs. Goldberg, I don't understand. That's what I do. That's my life. That's what I tr that's my living. That's how I make. And she said, "No, but Rab Rabbi, he means it." So I the the question the question is, you kind of touched upon it earlier about observance or whatever it is. Is there a point where where to it's there's a fear that that blocks or obstructs people from engaging in Jewish life? Is it that there is because there's so much out there now that's so uplifting is is one of the obstacles that we have to address which is that there's kind of like the the the patina or maybe the more overt like don't become too Jewish. Is that a thing? Do you know people like you know I would I would go to synagogue but then people would start saying I'm religious or you know if I learn or if I go you know Dan Loe's challenge uh you know that might be too much. Yeah. I have friends who say this to me. Yeah, I'm with you, but Jewish day, it's too much. Jewish day school. I don't, you know, you know, it's Jewish camp too much, right? My response to that is basically the following. If you're basic, if you're saying that you want your child to be out in the world and you want your child to be worldly and and not boxed in, okay, if that's the way you look at it, I respect that. But at least teach them about where they're from and what they're rooted in. Let them be literate. Help them be literate Jewishly and then let them go out in the world and at least they kind of know where they come from and then they can think about being engaged in the world. But you know the there's a I think it's Kim Puk who who is he has this amazing story in in this hagada we use where he talks the analogy he gives of these people who just want their kids to be worldly and just go out and they don't want them to is he says it's like it's like rowing from the shoreline and never knowing where the shoreline is. And if you put a kid in a boat and say go row and just be out there but we're never going to tell you where the shoreline is. They're just going to be out there and they're probably going to get lost and be lost. Yeah. I just want to remember where I'm from. Give kids the tools. That's all I'm tools to to decide what they want to be engaged in Jewishly, what they don't want to be engaged with Jewishly. I mean, my kids are are have have been educated Jewishly. Now, I have no idea, and I hope they're they're gone by now. I have no idea. I have no idea what kind of Jewish lives they're going to live, but at least I know they can make informed decisions. And that's that's what I'm arguing for. So, speaking of informed decisions and tools, this the last question then you can ask me whatever you want. But we all know the phenomena of kids who go through Jewish day schools and camps and other programs and actually do have thick Jewish identities um who'll say, "Turn around in the last two years and say, "You weren't honest with us. you know, you didn't teach us the Palestinian narrative, and here I am exposed, and I'm exposed to a narrative that I don't know how to counter. What can we do uh to to help those kids? And what do we say to those kids? Well, first of all, Jewish students should learn the Palestinian narrative. I mean, I I want them to be informed about these different narratives they're going to encounter uh in the world. So, so I don't I don't think there should be um put putting them in like this complete like, you know, little silo where they can't understand how Israel's critics, how Israel's enemies in in the or how people who have to live either next to Israel or in Israel are who they are. I mean, we should have those tools. Young Jews should have those tools. Um, but I think that's different from um this incredible fixation with Jewish kids, many of some of whom have come out of Jewish day schools, who wind up becoming fierce critics of Israel. And the reason I think there's this insane fixation on them and we are falling into like the Hamas's trap when we fixate on them, right? Because if you go to these rallies, right? I mean, I've told this this is one student we know who was a Hesshel kid who's at who's at Harvard now and he said it's the most unbelievable thing. Like the the students for justice in Palestine would hold these rallies on campus and they'd start every rally with a Jewish student speaking. Now, he says there was always just like four Jewish students or three who were there, but they were managed to project this like outsized presence of the Jews involved with the criticism of Israel. By the way, my as a Jew, right? As a Jew, right? No. Yes. as a Jew. My favorite was recently um one of the I think it may have been Jewish Voices for Peace. I can't remember. One one of the Jewish organiz Jewish organizations that's critical of Israel, the the the the Twitter handle, the Twitter the Twitter account of that organization, the person who's running the Twitter account accidentally was posting something on behalf of the account, but he accidentally posted something from his own account. It was intended to be. It was clear he was running the account, but he accidentally and he was I think he was someone from Students for Justice in Palestine. I mean, he was literally like they're running these groups. So, I I think we have a tendency to fixate on these organizations and these and these Jews who are struggling. If Jews are struggling with Israel, of course, they should struggle with Israel and we should have debates and they should know that Israel is a real country and real countries do stupid things and real countries politicians make mistakes. Sure. uh a real country that's been at war for a year and a half that's had over a thousand of its citizens like the equivalent of like 40 plus thousand Americans slaughtered and at its peak close to 10,000 in proportional terms to the US 10,000 Americans the equivalent being held in tunnels in Gaza that a a government dealing with that is of course going to lose some of its innocence and a country will lose some of its innocence. That's okay. That's normal. It's a real country. And kind of wrestling with that is fine. But but arguing that students who got a Jewish education and it was too pro-Israel and weren't exposed to the other side and therefore we've kind of like left them unmed. But you will say this though that the first time a Jewish student um hears the Palestinian narrative should not be on the quad. I agree. Right. Right. So yeah. Okay. Okay. Shoot. Okay. We have three minutes. Perfect. I two two things now. We may go over a minute. Uh the wise is going to have a heart attack. Uh two two things. One, I I I I heard your little comment there about synagogues, and I thought a lot about whether or not to talk about synagogues in this speech, and I you know, I can tell you're a little prickly that I didn't mention synagogues. Oh, at all. Yeah. Um, I I deliberately did not talk about synagogues because I think if you did not grow up with it, doing in a synagogue is one of the hardest things to learn as an adult. Sure. In Judaism and I realized so much of my comfort in a synagogue is because I am just there's a familiarity to it. There's a rhythm to it. There's a cadence to it that is like I'm instantly at home. And if you didn't grow up with any of it, and I I saw this through my wife's eyes who converted to Judaism, and by the way, the one synagogue she actually fell in love with was yours, which is why we're members. It's a very hard thing to do. And I don't want to my my message is get more involved with Jewish life and get immersed in it. And I want to advocate for the things that I think will have the best shot of hooking people. And therefore, I think gap year in Israel, sending your kid to a Jewish day school, going to a Jewish camp, adult Jewish learning, the loes, whatever. I think there are plenty. I don't want to I don't want people to feel like they got to be in the synagogue right away because I think that will not help expand our ranks. My Yeah, sorry. This poor guy. This poor guy. There's a question at the end of it. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Um, you're on the front lines of this stuff. My question basically is, yeah. No, really. You're on the front lines. Um, I know you didn't expect me to talk about what I talked about. Um, we talked about that before the speech when I told you what I was going to talk about. You were like, I thought you were going to do Israel, geopolitics. Um, but you're on the front lines of communal Jewish life. So, what are you seeing now? What trends? What are you what are your challenges? What are your what are the opportunities you see? So, I I I a lot of questions there. I mean, first of all, I I think that and appreciate and I mentioned David Hartman earlier and the Shalom Hartman Institute has been a major player in many in many in many spaces that I've been in over the last you know three decades and they specifically pedagogically placed the Baitman Josh the study hall at the center of their conversations. So, how do we engage people in the richness of Jewish texts and their relevance? Not just kind of their archaic relevance, but you know, their actual relevance, you know, in day-to-day living and in framing questions of of import that are um that are still animating our lives. So, placing the B midash, the study hall at the center as opposed to the synagogue is a smart move. It's a smart move, but it's partial. Like, synagogue life is not going anywhere. And and you know the story of synagogue life being eclipsed in the 20th century in the 21st century is also a tale of oldest time. Synagogues are not going anywhere because God's not going anywhere. And even for atheists it's God's not going anywhere. And that's a great line by the way. Yeah. It's like a good meme. God is not hashtag God is not going anywhere. Yeah. It's like people are always going to have a metaphysical uh itch that they have to scratch and it doesn't matter if they mention the word God, they'll still want to sing and they'll want to cry. Synagogues for 2,000 years were not worship spaces. They were therapeutic spaces. Where did Jews in the Ukraine and and in Poland and White Russia, where did they go to cry? They had to release their sadness and their tears, their trauma. And they experienced it daily. And so the the the house of prayer might be a place to engage the mind. And that absolutely is the smartest and most, you know, immediate way to engage our people. But people are still going to look for affect and they're a place for the heart. And if synagogues also can't keep up and be relevant and also if people don't give them a chance and if we don't train next generation rabbis who are relevant and who are you know Zionist and also liberal and progressive and all of those things people are going to look for it elsewhere too and they we the formative nature of what a synagogue could be in a family's life should never be undervalued and I think that we need to invest in that too that's not Medusa but I want to say we should invest in synagogues not necessarily mine but that's also Nice. Um, but I I think Yeah, why not? By the way, pretty soon they're going to think this is like the the the col donation pledge. There are cards. Uh, everyone has a card. Please bend bend the envelope. Yeah. As you leave. Uh, so yeah, I think that more broadly on the front lines, I think there's a lot of exhaustion in Jewish leadership. I think a lot of us were looking for a way to be connected in peoplehood when we felt like we would say I'd rather be in Israel. I know it's more dangerous, but like living here in New York City and walking around in New York, it feels like life is normal and it's not. And we're feeling like the Israelis also would rather be in Israel. That was amazing. Exactly. And so there was a sense that that we couldn't recreate that sense of we're in we could look at each other and say, "I know what you're going through and you know what I'm going through." We felt like we were, you know, in a in the wrong place. And I think that a lot of leaders that I speak to are exhausted trying to navigate creating those spaces for people, but also still very right, knowing that they have to and they have to show up in in pretty profound ways. I also think there's been a huge uptick, believe it or not, in in membership in synagogues and and activity across the board and like a place like the Y really rose to meet that. I want to give a big thanks to the Brmpman Center and to all of those here and the leadership, the board of the Y and the Jewish Life Committee and uh the Brahman leadership and our CEO and Elise like everyone here at the Y, you know, pivoted towards like every Jewish institution, how can we support our people and programs and so on. So, I think, you know, it's been a very challenging time, but it's also been a rewarding time and we'll see. Can I can I and I know we got to wrap and I just want to if we can enclose I just want to hit two very important points I hope everybody leaves with. Great. Okay. I I can't be more emphatic about the point about us transitioning from being prominent but weak to Jewish and strong. When Douglas said that it like got me prominent but weak because I know so many Jewish leaders or Jews who are in extraordinary positions of influence. they are extraordinarily prominent and they want to keep their heads down. I mean, I had Wendy Sachs on who created that film October 8th, October 8th, I think it's called. And um and she walked through on my podcast the stories of trying to get this film, get some studio, someone, some distributor, anyone. She's going to Hollywood. And by the way, everybody she's meeting with is are like is Jewish, like the CEOs of every major talent agency, every production company, every every studio. And they're all like and they're they're like, "Hey, I'm with you. I agree with you, but can't can't do it now. Why? It's just, you know, it's gonna there's going to be blowback. There's gonna be blowback. And I hear this over and over of people this that's that's the quintessence of being prominent but weak, right? What is the point of having all this prominence if it like at this particular moment you're you're so afraid to like use some of that prominence for something that matters? the the the the correlary to that is I spoke on Sunday to Bruce Pearl who's the head coach of the of uh you guys know uh of the uh uh he made his basketball team made it into uh the final four and there were three Jewish coaches. Three of the four coaches who made it in were were were were Jewish, but he Bruce he after they I think it was right when they got into the um the final four, he gave a press conference as these coaches do at the end of a big game and all the sports press is there and the national media is covering it and he says, "I want to start my press conference by talking about Idon Alexander." And everybody was like, everyone was like blown away. And then he starts talking about the hostages and he starts talking about and he says I check with the guys meaning the players on his team and they said I he said I want to start by talking about this very important to me and they said it was fine and he and and and he this thing went viral of this guy in the big sports event and so I said to him on Sunday I said I'm just curious did you get any blowback for that and he said no he goes I just got into the final four he's like he's like no one's going to criticize me he goes if I did did that when we weren't in the final four, we lost the game. But but there was an important truth he articulated which was he was there and he used it. Used it. Use the strength. Esther. Esther. Exactly. Neoda. Right. So, we're going to wrap up. But before we wrap up, there were there were questions about putting on your call me back hat to tell us a little bit about the geopolitical situation. But given how late the hour is, I want to actually invite people here. Um, we'll be having Sappir is Susan here. So, Sapir this coming uh Thursday, Thursday night. Thursday night here. Sappir debates will be on the topic of whether or not Donald Trump is good for the Jews. And uh obviously that's a very alive topic for all of us here in this room. And um I'm would love to hear Deian wax about that, but not this evening. Um, but come back. Uh, Brett Brett Brett Stevens will be here and Rahm Emanuel. It's going to be an incredible evening. So, come back. Before you go, everybody, one more big round of applause for Danor, please. Thank you all everybody. Thank you all for being here. Thank you. That's our show for today. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with others who you think may appreciate it. Time and again, we've seen that our listeners are the ones driving the growth of the Call Me Back community. So, thank you. To offer comments, suggestions, sign up for updates, or explore past episodes, visit our website, arcdia.org. That's arkdia.org, where you can also find transcripts with hyperl resources, which will hopefully help you deepen your own understanding of the topics we cover. Call Me Back is produced by Alan Benitar. Additional editing by Martin Hergo. Research by Gabe Silverstein. Our music was composed by Yuvall Semo. Until next time, I'm your host, Dan Senor.