Transcript for:
Mock Trial Case Analysis: Arson Allegations

is now in session The Honorable Eddie mchan residing all those have before this H report forward and be heard today first case on today's docket is people versus meny Gordon defendant and all Council are pres good morning everyone please be seated and before we honor for and have the come up first and people defense first and all team members and the teacher Coes advis judge morning good morning morning morning good morning you guys we air I didn't have the rest of the team come up I should have had the other the defense we do that again have half of the team that's ask if you H other people I air okay okay okay go back up Caleb and Norah and Elliot and Ethan Ethan I apologize oh no problem Sara good morning again we forgot somebody good morning good morning good morning good [Music] morning good morning everyone good luck thank you thank you thank [Music] you okay give me one second [Music] okay good morning everyone are there any applications before we get started good morning your honor my name is Lily post and I along with my co-counsel Emily kiss good morning your honor and Maddie Heckman good morning your honor we'll be representing the people in today's proceedings before we begin we just have a few housekeeping matters we'd like to address first off we have a notice of appearance for you may I approach your honor yes and let the record reflect we've already handed opposing Council a copy of our notice appearance of appearance okay your honor may we move freely about the courtroom absolutely we ask that all Witnesses with the exception of the defendant Miss Gordon be constructively sequestered would the defense like to be heard on that application no objection honor all right the application is granted with respect to objections would you like them to stated just objection objection with grounds or objection in predent to argument def like you heard on that application um I believe objection and then ground okay and that's acceptable and then finally where would you like exhibits to be placed after they've been moved into evidence I'm GNA leave that to the bayth you can no further housekeeping matters y honor okay anything from the defense yes J at this time the defense requests to make appearances for the record absolutely before I do that I have a roster for your convenience May roach yes please the ref I also have a copy for opposing Council good morning your honor my name is Hanah tror I'm here with co- counsel of Carter vanber good afternoon good morning your honor good morning and Co counsel D Mar good morning your honor good morning playing Miss Gordon is Miss Isabelle West good morning your honor good morning playing Mr Casey is Mr David Z good morning your honor good morning and playing Miss Leslie Neil as Miss Sophie van Amber good morning your honor good morning your honor the only other request that offense make is that we will move freely about the courtroom but only within the well not about the whole courtroom okay application is granted with that the defense is ready to proceed okay sound like we ready to go are are the people ready to present their o opening statements yes your honor okay and that'll be miss Kiss yes okay can proceed yes this is a case about lies loans and Lindsay Gordon good morning your owner my name is Emily kiss and today I along with my co-counsel will be representing the people of the state of Nevada your honor today we have the burden the crew Beyond a reasonable doubt that Lindsay Gordon is guilty of committing Aron in the third degree today you will learn that Miss Gordon refused to just do the right thing and pay her debts a woman willing to do anything to prevent her failing business from going INR in your honor burning down her own pain store was not off the table in 2016 the defendant lindsy Gordon opened up forment supplies or GPS which initially had several customers and loyal employees however once Co H in March of 2020 the business began to struggle to stck at shelves and even had to lay off most of their employees because of this the defendant decided to reach out to her financial adviser and friend Ryan KY due to the tremendous amount of debt that the defendant was in Miss Casey advised the defendant to seek out federal or state loans that could potentially help her business and despite knowing the risks the defendant eventually personally guaranteed a $250,000 loan which still did not save her business as GPS decline defendant's aducation grew and she even began to take it out on her employees who had been committed to GPS through F and then so this did not change the fact that the defendant was falling behind and owing more money by the day so instead of filing for bankruptcy as was her right she decided to defraud her insurance company to benefit from the money with a $2 million insurance policy the defendant was believed of her debt and able to rebuild her business so the defendant desperate to save for failing business and reputation devised a plan first she invited ran casy out to Lights Out bar and gr on the night of July 28th a bar that was intentionally chosen because it was within walking distance of her pain store the defendant also knew that ran casy would have to take a phone call that night simultaneously giving her an alibi and a brief window run her pain store and burn it down so knowing nobody would be working at night the defendant entered from the paint store poured gasoline on the floor and inserted the fire with the lighter that she always hears but your honor the work was not done just yet she then broke the back door's window to Stage a faith breaken she took ultimately pin on her former employee Pat wheer within minutes the building was engulfed in flames the defendant then ran back to the pain store just in time for Miss Cas to see her drenched and sweat and completely out breath today your honor the people will call investigator Kelly seite to the stand who was passed to investigate fire itself evidence and Witnesses between the insurance policy that the defendant had which would relieve all of her death her unreliable Alibi the night of the fire and direct access to a lighter and gasoline found in the truck of her car seide saw that it was clear all the evidence pointed to the defendant now through investigators investigation she conducted interviews one of them being with Pat Wheeler but because of the interview that she conducted with Mr Wheeler evidence compiled and over overwhelming amount of proof pointing to the defendant Pat was not pursued any further next the people will call Pat Wheeler to the stand the former employee of R pain supplies today the evidence will show that Mr Wheeler was a dead longtime employee of GPS in fact he was one of the four employees that stayed through the financial struggles of Co but despite this the defendant still used Mr Wheeler as a skapegoat for her GS speed next the people will call Tracy ble to the stand a former business partner of theet today the evidence will show that Mr ble saw the defendant the night of the fire exiting the back Alle of Lights Out far and making her way to board of pain and supplies your honor today we have the burden to appr Beyond a reasonable doubt that lindsy Gordon is guilty of committing our sin in the third degree later today my co-counsel Lily post will come before you and ask you to return the only verdict the evidence of Courts and Justice to man guilty thank you your honor thank you is the defense ready to present their opening statements yes your honor okay you may proceed may it please the court this case screams Reasonable Doubt two unaccounted for suspects one seem filling up their gasin at 10: p.m. on the night of fire just a couple hours before the building burned out an investigator who do not inclined to follow up this case screams reasonable death bad investigations lead to bad prosecutions and then bad convictions confirmation bias is the enemy of the truth the evidence today will show that the prosecution will not even prove a crime was committed let alone that it was committed by Miss Gordon to a moral certainty y the entire burden today rests on the prosecution the prosecution must prove my client not probably guilty not very likely guilty but guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt not only must the prosecution rule out the possibility of Miss Gordon's innocence but they must also exclude two a moral certainty every other reasonable hypothesis they must prove there is no other reasonable suspect for this fire you today the testimony will show that the prosecution will fail in their attempts to show Miss Gordon violating penal law code section 1510 subdivision one arson in the third degree today the testimony will show that this is the story of an investigation and an investigator lasered focus on one and only one suspect from the very beginning having tonal Vision to that there failing to follow basic protocol immediately coming to conclusions tipping off Witnesses and failing to consider and explore other suspects but further the evidence today will show that this was all to the hurt of my client Miss Gordon Miss Lindsay Gordon proud entrepreneur and owner Gordon Payne supplies she called it GPS who loved her business loved her employees and was looking to work through the difficult business effects of a once in a-lifetime covid pandemic so your honor the defense will call free witnesses to the stand today first we will call Miss lindsy Gordon her testimony will address the difficulties running a company during a once in a lifetime Co pandemic about her love for her employees her wanting to do everything she could to spare their jobs but also about her wrestling with the need to take difficult measures especially with respect to bankrupt second the defense will call Mr Ryan Casey to the stand longtime financial adviser of Miss Gordon Mr Casey will testify about the financial difficulties caused by Co for GPS but also about the possibilities that were before escorting especially with respect to bankruptcy and third your honor the defense to call Les longtime employee according to pay supplies her testimony will focus on what she saw in the night of the fire namely a disgruntled ex employee filling up her gas Canan just 2 hours prior to the fire and further that this same ex employee threatened mising and her business gor We Believe today the testimony will show the prosecution will fail to meet their High in at least three ways first the prosecution's investigation was biased tainted wholly inadequate second the prosecution simply provided insufficient evidence failing is required to rule out the possibility of Miss Gordon's innocence and third the prosecution will fail their obligation to exclude to immoral certainty every other reasonable hypothesis you people from the beginning of time voluntary a confirmation bias investigator seite fixated herself on the very first suspect she got a wh up and blinded herself to every other possibility confirmation bias is an enemy of the truth bad investigations lead to bad prosecutions and then bad convictions you're honor this case screams reasonable value accordingly at the conclusion of today's trial you will ask you find the hard Miss lindsy Gord thank you thank you Council all right are the people prepared to call their first witness the people call Kelly seide okay please take the stand yes I doed yes you may please state your name Kelly seide what's your current position Miss seide I'm currently a senior arson investigator what's your educational background so I received a degree in criminal justice in 1992 then I went on to be a police officer for 12 years after going through all of the necessary training for that I saw an opening in ARS investigation and I switched over to that and I've been in arson investigation for 15 years now what kind of training did you have to go through when you transition from being a police officer to becoming an ARS investigator I went through all of the required training and I still continuously learned about fire science engineering and chemistry what are your typical steps in an investigation so first I like to look at a scene gather physical evidence and see the actual building or anything that could have burned down then I move on to Gathering important interviews and conducting those and I bring all of my findings and research to the property crimes bureau chief and the fire commissioner permission to approach for the purpose of marking exhibit okay you mate like this phot exibit a this diagram B I have for your H people consider a and people consider B for identification I'm now showing opposing Council what has just been marked as P's exhibit a and P's exhibit B for identification may approach the witness yes you may miss I'm handing you would just been marked people exhibit a and people's exhibit B for identification can you identify exhibit a for me yes exhibit a is a photograph of the lighter that I saw in Lindsey Gordon's possession is this an accurate representation of the lighter you saw in Lindsey Gordon's possession yes it is were you made aware that lindsy Gordon had the slider the nighted the fire yes I was let's talk about exhibit B what is this document this is the diagram that I made of the noble gas station what night is this diagram depicting July 28th the night of the fire and what specifically is on this diagram Pat Wheeler's location and Leslie Neil's location your honor at this time I'd like to move people's exhibit A and B into evidence any objection from the defense yes RoR if I just going clarify the exhibit of the lighters people exhibit a or people's exhibit bit exhibit a is the lighter exib a object that exhibit a there been a lack of foundation late as to how this witness can authenticate that this is the same lighter possessed by Miss Gordon as there has not been a foundation laid even though this may look like the lighter or be similar to it there's been no lack of foundation as to if this is the same ler that was this Gordon possessed and how it came be in this possession okay would people like to be heard on that yes Jor as Miss just stated she was made aware that this is Miss Gordon's ligher um gr her interview she observed it in Miss Gordon possession and if allowed to continue Miss SE will testify to that interview specifically with lindsy Gordon and when she first learned of the lighter okay I'm not sure if the foundation has been set in the lighter yet so I'll let you continue um to try to establish that foundation so I'm going to sustain the objection yes let's talk about exhibit B first miss seide you said this is the diagram of the noble gas station yes where did you obtain the information depicted in this diagram I obtained all the information for my interview with Pat Wheeler and with Leslie Neil after conducting this these interviews did you continue to consider Pat Wheeler a suspect in this investigation no after I interviewed with Pat Wheeler I really didn't see him as a suspect any longer why is that well I talked to Pat Wheeler I heard his answers I considered everything carefully and I really didn't consider him as a suspect that was not where the evidence was leading me let's Circle back to the beginning of your investigation what did you notice when you first arrived at ging paint supplies the morning of July 29th I noticed that the entire building was almost completely burnt down did you perform any tests that morning yes I did I used my combustible gas detector to determine the acceler accelerant of the fire what did that device read it clearly read that the accelerant was gasoline were you made aware of a security system in place that Gordon Payton supplies yes I was but I sadly couldn't investigate the physical device because everything had almost burned down in the fire did you learn who had access to the disarming code for this device I learned that lindsy Gordon and a few of her employees had this objection your honor I believe there's been a lack of foundation lat as to how the witness could come to know this this knowledge this testimony I'm going to over at this point yes you're on okay Miss let's talk about your airview with Lindy Gordon specifically what did you notice about Miss Gordon when you interview well I was asking Miss Gordon some questions pretty typical questions her answer seemed kind of evasive to me objection your honor the witness supect overule yes did you were you made aware of anything Miss Gordon had on her person during your interview yes when I asked Miss Gordon for her identification just because I always take that a lighter had fallen out of her pocket and she made it clear that it was her grandfather's and she always carried it so you spoke to lindsy Gordon about this lighter yes I did is this the lighter that's depicted in people's exhibit a for identification yes it is and did Miss Gordon tell you that she had this light on her possession night the fire yes she did your honor at this time I like to move people's exhibit a any objection you I still believe there has been a lack of foundation late as as the chain of custody of this of this exhibit and how it came to be from Miss gord's possession into this witness's possession yes this is a photograph of the lighter not the lighter itself this photograph is never in Miss Gordon's possession all right I'm G to overrule the objection Zipit a into evidence yes what else did you learn from your interview with lindsy Gordon I learned that Miss Gordon always carries a gasoline container so I went to look at that since it was in her truck when I observed the container there was some residue on the outside around the lid and that indicated to me that it could have been recently refilled did you learn anything about defendant's whereabouts the night of the fire yes in another interview from Tracy Bickle I learned that she was outside lights out Barn Grill around 12:15 a.m. ection your honor Miss test is based on hear say may I respond yes you may under rule 201 401 my apologies this is an outp Court statement however we're not offering it for the truth of the matter at this time if allowed to continue Miss seide will testify to how this statement affected her investigation and the effect it had on her and her subsequent actions rather than the actual uh facts of the case however we do plan to offer this information for the truth of the matter when we call Tracy vle to the stand later today so in that regard we're offering it subject to connection all right overule yes Ron I'll ask my question again miss deide sure were you made aware what did you learn about the defend whereabouts medical fire well from another person that I interviewed Mr ble he made it clear that she was outside lights out Bar and Grill at 12:15 a.m. that night why was this relevant to your investigation well when I along through my other interviews I also talked to Ryan Casey who said that they were out lights out bar and grill with Miss Gordon the entire except for this time frame from 1210 to 12:40 and 12:15 Falls in that time frame so it was relevant that Miss Gordon was outside not in the bar what else did you learn from your interview with Mr Casey I learned about Gordon Payton supplies finances and I learned that they were even teetering on the idea of bankruptcy I also learned about the insurance claim that Miss Gordon had it was a $2 million insurance claim and that gave real motive to me once throughout investigation who did you bring your findings to I brought all of my findings to the property crimes bureau chief and the fire commissioner what did they decide to do after reviewing the evidence you collected they decided to seek an indictment on Lindsey Gordon and then the grand jury decided to in indict lindsy Gordon no further questions okay thank you defense cross exam your yes before I begin may I um have the city of bliss fire investigation report found on page 95 of case pack premark for identification as defense one yes you may may approach yesing Council yeah good morning investigator good morning when visiting the burnt out Warehouse you knew right away or immediately this fire was no accident correct yeah I know an arson when I see one and let's talk about a potential suspect Pat Wheeler after the fire on July 29th you first interviewed Miss lindsy Gordon correct I did she was at the scene you in fact you were laser focused on Miss Gordon correct well she is the owner of the building I thought that'd be a good place to start and if sure you learned Miss Gordon fired wheeler correct around four months prior yes further upon being fired you learned wheeler threatened Miss Gordon right on his way out the door yes and you learned Miss Gordon believed wheeler lit the fire correct yes so I interviewed Mr Wheeler but isn't it true you filed your city of bliss fire investigation report prior to interviewing wheeler yeah this is a preliminary report but I do work on a continuous basis so I filed this report to keep things moving and then I went to gather my interview all of my evidence went to the grand jury so that's a yes to my question yes thank you but it's true that before before interviewing wheeler you named my client Miss Gordon Chief suspect correct I did that's where the evidence LED now eventually you interviewed potential suspect wheeler on August 7th correct yes and it's true an intervene wheeler you issued him a warning what' you say it's true when interviewing wheeler you issued him a warning I'm sorry can you rephrase your question absolutely it's true during your discussion with with with Pat Wheeler you issued him a warning yes I did and investigator just like a simple yes or no answer to this question do you consider it best practice to warn suspects before hearing their answers to questions I can't answer that with just a yes or no can I further elaborate if if possible that's ask you answer the yes or no I would say it depends on the person that I'm interviewing and the situation at hand so that's a yes overall yes okay now it's also true interviewing the cab driver Tracy Bickle you informed ble Miss Gordon was in the lights out Bar and Grill in the night of the fire correct yes and again yes or no do you consider it best practice to inform potential suspects about key facts of a case well Mr ble saw Miss Gordon outside of the bar and grill so he knew that she was there I just let her know that he was inside she was inside so is that a yes yes thank you now ble claimed to have allegedly seen Miss Gordon at 12:10 at night correct around then yes okay but in your filed report you list B allegedly saw Miss Gordon at 12:15 a.m. a full 5 minutes later correct Yes again these are approximates so think can vary five minutes all right now in your career one a prior report contained ER correct it did and I live with that every day in fact an innocent man was convicted of arson based solely on the gross errors in this report objection relevance gor may have be heard yes you may a fact important to this case is the competency and credibility of this investigator and her investigation that she performed this this testimony goes directly to question the competency and credibility of this investigation as subject to connection your honor her past actions and mistakes now directly influence her investigation of this case because her supervisors now see her as a liability your honor so as a fact important to this case her compeny and credibility and how much weight the court should Grant her testimony his testimony is relevant per rule 201 okay people your honor this past mistake or past case was years ago and under 20 rule 201 for something to be relevant it must make an issue of this case more or less probable those two cases are unrelated they're two different circumstances it doesn't make any of the issues we're here to talk about today more or less relevant m I've heard enough all right I'm going to overrule the objection I think it goes to the to the credibility of the witness so overrule you can answer the question can you re ask it please absolutely it's true a prior report you prepared for investigation contained gross are is correct yes it is and I live with that every day in fact an appell at court noted this report contain material errors right many years ago yes and this was this was two years ago correct I move on yes you're on and investigator I'd like to now Focus your attention on some of the interviews conducted okay it's TR interviewing Ryan Casey the subject of Wheeler potentially being an arsonist came up correct during my interview yes yes and based on your investigation you learned Miss Leslie Neil also believed wheeler L the fire correct yes so I interviewed Pat Wheeler further you miss Neil observed wheeler on the night of the fire at a gas station pulling up a two gallon gasoline container correct multiple hours prior yes right and just to clarify for the court you believe gasoline was the accelerant that started this fire yes yes and Pat Wheeler is not the only one that had access to gasoline thank you but it's true that you still filed your report prior interviewing wheeler correct again this is a continuous report I did file the preliminary report not the final report but in this report in which you named my client Chief suspect when you time you filed this report you still had not asked me what they did with the two gallons of gasoline that night correct again that's where the evidence LED at the time and that's where still leads today right now that time you filed the report you still not asked wheeler why they made threatening statements against my client Miss Gordon correct objection asked and answered maybe heard your onor overrule overrule you can you can answer the question can you re ask it again absolutely it's true at the time you filed this report you still have not asked wheeler why they made threatening statements against my client M Gord correct at the time of this report I had not yet interviewed Mr Wheeler so I did interview Mr Wheeler and all that information evidence went to my superiors and the grand jury so that's a yes yes at the time of the report thank you let's now Focus refocus on the testimony of Tracy Bickle so ble allegedly saw someone walking down south popular on July 29th just after midnight correct South paer yes and this person wore a baseball cap ped way down right yes now it's true ble did not immediately identify this person correct no he didn't he looked and he saw them and he let me know ask you strike the L portion of that answer is non responsive overrule yes honor it's true investigator it took several minutes before pickle even realized this person might be mordon correct I assume that was out of shock but yes I ask you the L portion former portion of I'm suain investigator you admit that ble was not able to confirm the person they saw was Miss Gordon correct they confirmed at the best that they could so is is your testimony tell you that they were able to confirm the person they saw was mised not 100% but they confirmed at the best that they could let's move on now to the your investigative process with respect to Pat Wheeler when you eventually interviewed wheeler you learned that they killed up a two go gasoline container just two hours prior to the fire right yes around 10 p.m. and Wheeler claimed they were filling their gas can to use their lawn mower the next morning right yeah he always mows his lawn Saturday mornings it's sure you weren't able to confirm though if he actually did mow his lawn that next morning correct so at the time that I interviewed Mr Wheeler it was a few days later and I wouldn't have been able to tell what day that he mot his lawn so is that a yes to my question yes I would not have been able to tell thank you but it is true during your interview with wheeler you were able to confirm that they made threatened statements against Miss Gordon correct yes which Mr Wheeler explained to me in fact wheeler considered damaging the paint store right briefly five months four months ago yes yes and at this time you are expecting you're you would say that you're entitled to a promotion correct in the next two years yes right you believe this case proves you're entitled to a promotion right well I believe I did a great job on this case so yes just one last set of questions for you okay you learned that Miss Gordon had a casualty insurance policy on her business correct yes a $2 million Casualty Insurance she had this insurance policy in 2022 right yes and in 2021 also right yes ever since she opened the business right in fact going all the way back to 2016 correct correct thank you investigator for your time going to have no further questions okay thank you any redirect yes your honor Miss seide who did you bring all of your findings to throughout your investigation I brought all of my findings to the property crime Spirit Chief and the fire commissioner my superiors and just to clarify did this include your interview with Pat Wheeler yes it included my interview with Pat Wheeler and all of my other information that I gathered no further questions okay any recross yes your honor investigator it's true that because of your a prior your prior investigation objection out of the scope of my redirect I didn't hear the question may may may question my question was investigator it's true that because so your your supervisor the fire commissioner now see you see the need to closely monitor your work based on your past investigation corre you still have objection yes okay overrule you can answer the question okay can you ask it again absolutely it's true that your your superiors as you mentioned the fire commissioner now see the need to close monitor your work for this case based on your past actions yes but we all work together thank you investigator I've no forur the question here okay thank you you may step down thank you would you like these exhibits yes well just for the record exhibit a is in evidence exhibit B was not moved into evidence I'm sorry people's a is in evidence people's B is not in evidence it was not moved into evidence might your honor I believe people's be was moved into evidence heard the exhibit a people's exhibit a was not mov into evidence be the well people a is this is the lighter yes that was moving into evidence by the further testimony yes I believe opposing Council had no objection to if there's no objection toit is there any objection to exhibit people's B going into evidence you know this at this time there I was uh there was no mention of people's B being moved into evidence I'm aware that people's a has been moov into evidence but there was no mention of people's B moving forward is there any objection to to people's B going into evidence I have no objection at this time your honor all right so people be able be in evidence yes all right are the people ready to call their next witness yes your honor the people call Pat Wheeler to the stand okay Mr Wheeler take the stand did you yes I do can I proceed your honor good morning Mr Wheeler just keep your voice up before the court yes okay yes you may begin good morning good morning please state your name and age for the court I am Pat Wheeler I am 29 years old what's your current occupation Mr Wheeler I currently hold multiple part-time jobs where did you previously work uh I used to my last full-time employment was at GPS and when did you begin working at G pain and supplies in September of 2016 about how long did you work there for seven years of my life when you first began working at GPS what kind of job responsibilities did you have well I mainly worked in customer service I really enjoyed working with the customers and I think they enjoyed me being there objection your honor I believe the last portion of his answer was speculative as to the customers enjoy him being there over I'll let out allow some latitude now Mr Wheeler do you know who lindsy Gordon is yes I do who is she uh she was my boss while I worked at GPS would you be able to identify Miss Gordon here at court today yes I would could you please refer to her by an article of clothing she is the woman wearing a blue blue suit behind the defense table let the record reflect that the witness has correctly identified the defendant ly Gordon all right so reflect it now Mr Wheeler what's your relationship with the defendant well as I said she was my boss while I worked at GPS I would say that we had a pretty good professional relationship and what impact of any did Co have during your time working there well it made uh due to the financial difficulties it made everything a little bit more stressed F uh we also at GPS had to lay off most of our employees so there were only four during Co now who were these four employees that the defendant decided to keep on the payroll myself Leslie Neil and then two accountants now Mr Wheeler what was it like working at GPS during your last two months there well it was very depressing my job and customer service just due to the lack of uh customers kind of got moved into uh menial tasks like cleaning and stocking shelves uh which to me was very demeaning because it was not what I was uh un originally assigned to do and when did your time end at GPS in March of 2023 why did your time suppli Gordon claimed that I was EAS dropping on a private conversation that she was having on the phone uh while I was just walking by in the hallway now Mr Wheeler exactly how were you able to hear this conversation uh well like I said as I was walking by in the hallway um Gordon always keeps her doors open J um I believe this witness can testify as to when he walked past the hallway if the door was open but cannot testify as to the defendant always having his door open as that is not within his personal knowledge right over I'll just re ask that last question how exactly were you able to hear this conversation that day um so as I was saying I always when as I was walking through the hallway Gordon always keeps her door open which you know makes it easier to hear people inside also uh she always keeps her phone on speaker phone um those two things combined just made it really easy to hear what she was talking about what did you hear the defendant say I heard her say that she would hate to do anything drastic did you hear anything else during this conversation yes I could clearly hear hear her clicking on and off the later that I know she always carries with her now I believe that a speculation as to um Mr testifying uh to this word always carry a letter with her that is not fin his personal knowledge and for real 313 that would be in this people like to be heard yes your honor Mr can testify what's with within his personal knowledge he testified that he worked at word and pay supplies for seven years also this was already open um the store is already open on um defenses opening okay I'm going to overrule now Mr Wheeler after you heard this conversation what happened next well Gordon saw me just walking by um immediately erupted on me um was extremely upset that I heard her and or pet extremely upset that I heard her and then I was immediately terminated now did you say anything to the defendant in response to fire I did uh regrettably I may have said it quite angrily at the time but I said that she would regret this day and to mark my words what did you mean by saying this to her well I simply meant that she would regret losing such a good employee I mean I think I do I I did a really good job at GPS and she would just hate to lose somebody as valuable as me now Mr Wheeler I'd like to move on are you now aware that Gord and pain and supplies just burned down on July 28th yes I am so to be clear how after how long after your termination did this fire happen nearly half a year and where were you the night of July 28th I was just running errands in preparation for the weekend specifically what were these errands well I I do know specifically that I had to fill up uh some gas so that I can mow my lawn the next morning was it typical for you to mow lawn on Saturdays yes I do it every Saturday now I'd like to turn your attention to investigator Kelly seide did she ever interview you yes she did when did this interview take place early August and what did you and Miss wheer excuse me what did you and the subai discuss about the night of the fire and where you were well same thing I just told you I told her that I was you know running errands filling up gas at the noble gas station and what did you tell tell Miss seide about the day that you were fired from GPS well I told her about the statements that both I and Gordon said about how she would hate to do anything drastic uh and then I told her like that I was fired what else did you tell her about the statements that you made specifically well I did say that I knowingly made them uh when I was angry and that they I regret them to this day now Mr Wheeler when you were first by from B supplies did you think about being back at the defendant briefly yes I was upset and after you had been fired for some time did you still feel this way no definitely not do you still feel that way today you're in Port absolutely not were you at GPS the night of July 28th no so Mr Wheeler to be clear did you start this fire I would never absolutely not nothing further your honor thank you want the cross-examination yes may I proceed yes you may good morning Mr Wheeler good morning Mr Wheeler uh you were employed under the management of Miss Gordon at GPS from 2016 to 2023 right yes I was and as an employee you you believe that you had a great relationship with Miss Gordon right I would say that I had a reasonable professional relationship yes but just 4 months before the fire you were let go right I was fired yes after all those years of loyal service you believe that you were unceremoniously fired right yes and that this was for no good reason right that's correct yet Mr Willer you admit to not have a good attitude at work right sometimes I didn't have the best attitude at work yes and that a coworker Leslie was making me mad right objection relevance overule can you please re ask the question yes of course um a coworker lese was making you mad right there were some times where I may have been slightly upset with some my co-workers I suppose is that yes that the co your coworker Leslie was making you mad correct I yeah I sure now on the day of your firing you were escorted out of the building right I was walked out the building I guess you reacted in Anger right I was upset that I was unceremoniously terminated after seven years of loyal service yes now after being unceremoniously fired you had fantasies right just right after being fired but yes Mr Viller you had particular fantasies about how to get back at Gordon right again just right after I was fired but yes when you were fired you spoke to miss Gordon yes I did you told Miss Gordon to mark your words right yes you also told Miss Gordon that she would regret the day she fired you right yes you would be losing an invaluable employee isn't it true Mr Wheeler that you thought about doing something to hurt Miss Gordon again just for a brief moment after I was fired yes you thought about damaging Miss Gordon's property correct again just for a brief moment after I was fired but yes just to confirm Mr wheer you thought about damaging lindsy Gordon's paint store GPS correct that's what I've been saying yes now let's move forward to the night of the fire on the night of July 28th 2023 you were at a gas station yes I was this gas station is in West Nirvana right as are most gas stations I go to yes just to confirm GPS is also located in BL NADA right yes so is my home now you had with you a portable plastic gasoline container right yes I think that's yeah yes I do Mr will did you fill up your car that night objection relevance uh a fact important to this case is Wheeler's motive means an opportunity to commit arson uh the fact that Mr Wheeler came to a gas station and only filled up his uh car or plastic portable gasin container and can't remember if he filled up his car um demonstrates his opportunity and his uh means to commit arson as he um had a plastic portable gasoline container may I be heard your honor yes please relevance it makes a fact to this case more or less probable we've already established on direct examination that Mr Wheeler was filling up a gas canister because he needed gasoline for his lawnmower which he can't bring to a gas station and Mr Wheeler is also not on stand today for ourson so this is just not relevant to today's case all right I'm going to sustain the objection yes your honor uh now Mr Wheeler you spoke to investigator seide about the EV this night yes yes I did you would say that inspector seide warned you that someone saw you at noble gas station that night right she may have said that yes is that y my question she warned you again she may have warned me yes okay you told inspector seide what you said to miss Gordon when you were fired right yes I did you told the inspector that you told Miss Gordon to mark your words right yes that's what I told her you also told the inspector that miss you told Miss Gordon that she would regret this day right yes and you told SE RI that you were angry at Miss Gordon right I was angry after being fired from my loyal service of seven years yes and you told the inspector that you had fantasies about hurting this Gordon right again just for the brief moment after I was fired yes in fact please tell the court you told inspector Severide that you thought about damaging lindsy Gordon's paint St objection asked and answered your may I respond yes you may your I asked this witness whether the have fantasies I have not asked this witness whether they have relayed these um to inspector seide this is being brought in to show um that inspector s had knowledge of this and had knowledge of inspect or Mr willer's fantasies right people you want to respond yes your honor this line of questioning has already been answered we've established that Mr Wheeler has informed investigator seide of the way that he felt when he was fired during his interview with her already may I respond jna no overrule you can answer that question if you remember can you please re askk yes of course um you told inspector seide that you had fantasies about damaging lindsy Gordon's paint store correct yes again just for the brief moment after I was fired and you explained to the inspector how you filled up your gas can on the N of the fire yes yes I did you told the inspector that this was at 10: p.m. right that's the time yes and when you believe the inspector failed to consider you a suspect you thanked your lucky stars right objection relevance your H may I respond yes you may your I'm this is being Bri to show the Mr willer's relief after not being considered a suspect I believe this um goes to Mr Wheeler's uh credibility and um showing that Mr Wheeler had thoughts about this and was relieved after not being considered a suspect people like to be heard your honor again under rule 201 this does not make a fact of this case more or less probable it's fair to say that nobody would want to be considered an arsonist it's not relevant all right overrule you can answer the question can you please re ask the question yes of course when you believe the inspector failed to consider you a suspect you thank your lucky stars right I didn't want to be considered a suspect for a crime I didn't commit no is that the estimate question you thanked your lucky stars yes Mr Wheeler after being fired you claim that you have moved on with your life right I have yet to this day you would say you still can't believe that Miss gor fired you right it's still surprising to me that she just fired an employee of seven years of service yes thank you your honor I have no further questions okay can you redirect yes your honor now Mr Wheeler have you done anything to harm Bo payment supplies no I have not have you done anything to harm lindsy Gordon definitely not nothing further at this time your honor okay any recross no recross all right thank you Mr will you can step down does the people have any more witnesses yes your honor the people called Tracy Bickle to the stand okay PR I do seat permission you may proceed please state your name and age for the record my name is Tracy Bickle I'm 64 years old what is your current occupation I'm a taxi cab driver and before you were a cab driver did you have a different occupation I did what was it I used to co-own a real estate management business with lindsy Gordon and what were your roles inside this company I was in charge of Business Development while Lindsay handled our finances and management and when this business ended how did it affect you I was devastated I put every last penny I had and so much time into that business and I felt betrayed now Mr ble are you aware that there was a fire at Gordon paint in suppli the night of July 28th I am and where were you that evening I was dropping off a passenger at the lights out Bar and Grill G may I approach the bench for the purpose of marking ofit yes you may people see see let the record reflect I'm showing aing counsel has just been marked as people's Exhibit C for identification G may I approach the witness yes you may let the record reflect I am showing the witness what has just been marked as people's Exhibit C for identification Mr Pickle what is this this is a diagram of the area around the lights out Bar and Grill and is this a fair and accurate diagram that it is and besides scale is everything accurate yes and were you in this area the night of July 20 I was you're on our asked that people's exhibit SE evidence any objection I just have one broad de question for this document yes you may Mr ble did you prepare this document or create this document I did not uh your honor I would object that this since Mr ble is not the Creditor of this document there's a lack of foundation as this map is not to scale Mr Bickle May testify about his knowledge of the streets but this would be inadmissible as he's not the CR of this document has not testified to ever seen this document previously right would do people like to be heard yes sir investigator Kelly seide rendered this diagram in her investigation this map merely depicts where Mr ble was located that evening and since he was in that area it is within his personal knowledge where he was and I'm nearly asking where he was that evening okay the court does not believe the proper Foundation has been laid for this matter I'm going to sustain the objection Mr ble the night of the fire where I was outside the lights out Bar and Grill on Spring Street your honor I believe the witness is referencing an a document not suain may I ask that the document be removed from the witnesses it's not in evidence absolutely that doesn't mean you can't try to reinduce it [Music] later sure driver so Mr ble you're a taxi cap driver right I am am and where do you usually drive your C I drive around this area all the time your honor I ask that people's exibit evidence at this point any objection yes your honor everybody rais my objection as this witness has a um lack of knowledge to authenticate this document as to its accuracy can testify about his knowledge of the streets and his personal experience but cannot uh attest to the accuracy of this document he didn't create it take any photos measurements or you know take any steps this document so therefore it still be invisible people your honor allow to continue I will establish that Mr ble has worked as a taxi C driver for nearly 30 years and he has much experience in this area and as I previously asked him this diagram is a fair and accurate depiction of that area maybe heard your sure um I believe that uh this document maybe entered into evidence if um if you deem necessary after that proper Foundation has been laid but not before okay I'm gonna sustain the objection sub subject to Foundation Mr ble do you normally drive this area all of the time I've been driving here for years and are you aware that investigator seide created a diagram to depict the area that you were driving in that even I am aware yes objection your honor I believe that's an invention of fact and is inadmissable per rule 701 as opposing council is not allowed to ask questions that are outside the witness's personal knowledge and their affidavit you like to be heard yes J since Miss seide interviewed Mr ble she asked him where he was that evening and used that evidence to subsequently create this diagram maybe heard your right sustain Mr ble the night of the fire when you were driving your cab did you notice anything that evening I did I noticed a person behind the lights of bar and grill and when you saw a person was there anything obstructing your view there was not were you wearing your glasses at you Mr ble I wasn't but I don't need them to drive at all and when you saw this objection your honor I would once again object invention fact is nowhere in this Witnesses affidavit this he stated he does not need his glasses to drive right overrule I'll allow it give him some latitude Mr ble do you need your glasses to drive not at all and when you notice this person what did you identify about them I noticed that they were wearing a baseball cap and did you notice anything else about this person yes I thought they looked identical to Lindsay Gordon how did you identify Lindsay Gordon that evening by her posture her gate the way she moved and walked and you would you be able to identify Lindy Gordon in court here today absolutely could you please do so based on an article of clothing yes she is the lady in the gray blue suit let the record reflect that the witness has correctly identified lindsy Gordon so reflected Mr ble when you saw lindsy Gordon in the alley that evening were you able to identify her by her face no why was this he she had a baseball cap pulled over a part of her head now Mr ble what if any actions did you take on August 1st 2023 I contacted arson investigator Kelly seide and before contacting investigator seide did you have any prior knowledge of the case facts not at all and what specifically did you tell investigator SE I told her exactly what I saw that night I saw lindsy outside the bar of the night of the fire objection your honor I believe this is here say people have you heard your honor I'm asking Mr B What specifically he told investigator subri since this is a statement that he made I'm simply asking him about that may be heard your honor yes you may this is still an out of court statement that opposing council is bringing in for the truth of the matter and therefore it's IND invisible for rule 401 I know they should bringing in for the truth of the matter I'm going to overrule the um objection Mr Pickle what did you tell investigators s when you spoke with him like I just said I told her that I had seen Lindsay Gordon outside the bar the night of the fire nothing so okay any cross yes your [Music] honor excuse me may proceed your honor yes you may good good morning m Mr Pickles good morning you formed a business with the defendant in 2004 is that correct that's correct you invested every last penny into this business yes everything it's true that this business eventually failed correct it did and when this business failed you lost everything yes everything I had and you were you felt betrayed by Miss Gordon when this happened is that correct I did her lies ruined the entire business and you were very angry at Miss Gordon for this is that correct at that time I was reasonably very upset and yes or no you believe Miss Gordon's scumbag is that correct I've said some things like that yes and a crumb bomb I've also said some things like that and you believe her in so as well is that correct when I think about the things she has done in the past I'm not very positive about it yes to my question that you believe Miss Gordon an so I did call her that yes in fact didn't you assert that you would get back at Miss Gordon correct many years ago I said that but I was very angry and I've moved past that then right but many years ago you said you would get back at Miss Gordon however long it takes correct like I said In the Heat of the Moment I was reasonably upset and it's been many years yes and but you didn't just assert this you swore that however long it takes you would get back at lindsy Gordon is that correct I can't say this enough I was very angry in the moment but it's been many years I've mellowed out right and you've claim you've put this anger behind you correct you've mellowed out yes yes would you please tell the court what year your business with the the defendant failed around 2011 that was 13 years ago correct yes and do you recall drafty and affidavit in this case I do and you created this affid in October of 2023 is that correct that's correct so even now 13 years later with your anger behind you you called the defendant in so in your affidavit is that correct I can still recall the fact that she has had some shady business in the past and I'm not her biggest fan while still moving past those feelings just to direct you back to my question Mr ble 13 years later now you call the defendant in sop in your affidavit is that correct that's correct thank you furthermore you say you wouldn't lose any sleep if lindsy Gordon is convicted is that correct I wouldn't lose any sleep if an arsonist was convicted of arson but I'm not speaking about anyone I'm speaking about specifically lindsy Gordon you wouldn't lose any sleep if Lindsey Gordon is convicted is that correct if an arsonist was convicted of arson I would not lose any sleep so lindsy Gordon is that correct the arsonist yes thank you Mr wheer and on the night of the fire you're in the vicinity of Gordon's paint store is that correct around the area yes in fact don't you testify to seeing the fire trucks at GPS while it was on fire I saw them heading down the street yes and at 1215 a.m. on July 29th you saw someone correct I did and you were driving your cab on the night of the fire yes that's correct you were driving down South poppler Avenue correct yes and that night was dark yes that's fair to say and M Mr Bickle yes or no do you wear glasses I do but I don't need them to drive at all yeah and you created an affidavit for this case is that correct that's correct and in that affidavit you sore to include all relevant testimony is that correct I did and nowhere in your affidavit do you state that you do not need glasses to drive is that correct that's correct I was driving perfectly fine without them objection improper impeachment I could be heard uh yes your honor I believe I'm impeaching the this bi Omission is they've admitted something out of their affidavit that they've testified to UND direct examination that both contradicts something in their affidavit and is relevant testimony that they have not included people your honor the council is trying to reference an outof court document as Mr bickle's affidavit is not into evidence identification or marked for identification it is not missible maybe heard your honor yes I'm not referencing this document for the truth of the matter but rather to show inconsistency and impeach Mr uh Mr bickle's credibility all right overrule so I'll re ask my question Mr Bickle nowhere in your affidavit do you state that you do not need glasses to drive is that correct no but I was driving perfectly fine without them okay and you saw someone exited an alley on South popper is that correct from cat alley onto South popler yes and you weren't wearing your glasses on the night of the fire is that correct I was not and yes or no while you were still on South popper Avenue you were not able to immediately identify this person is that correct not immediately no and while you're still in south popular Avenue you didn't identify this person as having the posture of Miss Gordon did you not specifically at that moment right and while you were St in South popper you did not identify this person as looking like Miss Gordon either did you no I was largely focused on driving yes right and so after seeing this person you then headed back towards the taxi Depot is that correct that's correct and in doing so you drove halfway down Pine Street yes yes yes and after allegedly seeing this person and heading back to the taxi Depot that's when you realize this person might be lindsy Gordon is that correct yes I haven't seen her in years and I was shocked yes so you drove back to confirm that this person might be lindsy Gordon correct yes I was shocked and she had disappeared by the time I got there and this person you saw they were a cat all way down is that correct a ball cap yes and this alleged person that you saw on a dark night you didn't hear their voice is that correct that's correct and when you drove back to confirm you weren't able to is that correct no she had disappeared by then yes because they had the person had vanished yes yes she had disappeared so you weren't able to confirm that was lindsy Gordon on objection asked and answered I'll allow one more time I'll re ask a question Mr Pi you were not able to confirm that it was Lindsay Gordon on the night at fire is that correct that night no and it's at this point that you thought of Gordon as an so is that correct when thinking about the things she had done in the past Yes And to clarify for the court on July 29th 2023 shortly after midnight you thought to yourself I'd know that so anywhere is that correct I would know her anywhere yes is that a yes to my question yes two days later on August 1st you contacted investigator seide yes that's correct and and did you speak to investigator s via a phone call or an inperson interview I met her in person and you don't testify to speaking to the investigator on the 28th is that correct could you repeat the question please excuse me you don't testify to speaking to the investigator on the 29th is that correct that's correct or the 30th that's correct or the 31st correct objection relevance maybe heard your honor yes uh this goes to show that Mr ble uh saw claims to have seen Miss Gordon but waited 4 days before contacting the investigator which uh greatly uh casts doubt upon whether or not he actually saw the defendant on the night of the fire people yeah and our Mr ble was not aware of where to take his findings to until that day all right suain yes sir next question you also spoke to investigator seite on August 3rd is that correct that's correct and again when you spoke to investigator s in August 3rd was that a face-to-face interview or a telephone call that was face Toof face I believe so just to clarify rep on August 1st when speaking to investigator se you could only say you were pretty sure you saw Miss Gordon on the night of the fire yes that's correct I have no further questions your honor okay permission to redirect your honor one second all right people can proceed Mr Pickle is it fair to say that you are not the biggest fan of Lindsay Gordon that's fair to say yes would this affect your testimony in any way here in court today absolutely not and how are you able to identify lindsy or the night of the fire I've known her for over 30 years now I would recognize her anywhere nothing for H okay any recross I have no recross your honor okay thank you Mr ble you can step down thank you [Music] do the people have any more witnesses the people re at this time your honor okay are there any motions before the court uh yes your honor at this defense at this time the defense would like to call Miss ly Gordon to the St okay so no motions no no motion John okay the defense ready to proceed with their first witness correct yes okay we'd like to call Lindsay [Music] Gord I do have seat councelor you can acquire thank you honor good morning Miss Gordon good morning please introduce please introduce yourself to the court my name is Lindsay Gordon and I'm 59 years old what is your physical condition Miss Gordon well if it wasn't for my asthma I would say I'm doing okay that is for someone who's getting closer to being a senior citizen where do you live I live at 1110 Hilltop Terrace in Bliss Nirvana and what is your occupation well until recently I was the proud owner of Gordon Paint and Supplies or GPS as I fondly call it until recently please explain for the court there was a fire and I lost everything when did you start GPS 2016 I started my business from the ground up in April of 2016 how did you finance the opening of GPS well I had a few dollars left over from a previous business but I also took out a home equity loan and what steps did you take to open up your store H well I hired a staff of employees good folks and I also took out insurance honor may I just reposition myself so I'm able to see Miss Gordan yes you may thank you I can slide to the other side your honor it's up to you that works too thank you okay my apologies I can Reas a question Miss Gordon why did you take out insurance yeah well I mean you got to have it it and I had a building full of combustible materials and how did your new business do initially the business was going swimmingly well and so much so that in December of 2019 I had 25 employees on the payroll did circumstances continue like that at GPS no no unfortunately not things changed when did things change everything started to fall apart in March of 2020 and why did things change Miss Gordon one word co co had a big impact what impact did Co have on your business Co destroyed my supply chain how if it all did the breaking the supply chain affect GPS well I mean with Co I was unable to stock the shelves with paint and other supplies and what impact did that have on the business it had a significant impact and business slowed to a trickle what if anything happened to employees it it broke my heart but well I had to make some very hard decisions regarding my employees please explain by May of 2020 I laid off 21 workers what if anything was the long-term impact of Co on your business well in 2021 we had new orders starting to in and I would say this led to perhaps a calculated risk on my part say what do you mean by calculated risk well I mean I had dedicated employees and I really did care about them it troubled me to let them go so I rehired 16 of my old employees and brought them back into the family so you say this was a calculated risk was there a downside to this calculated risk there was Bank ruptcy what do you mean by bankruptcy well I mean legally declaring that the business was broke you see GPS did not recover as quickly as we had hoped receivables were not coming in and my total debt load became to high how did you learn that bankruptcy was an option oh well that was from my financial advisor Ryan Casey and we would discuss bankruptcy frequently already in 2022 even the new loan only helped a little we still had difficulties what new loan oh well while discussing bankruptcy over the summer of 2022 I took out a $250,000 loan and one that I had to personally guarantee did your bankruptcy discussions with Ryan Casey continue after the summer of 2022 they did the bankruptcy discussions continued as my financial difficulties continued into 2023 I shudder to think about it but well it seems as though something drastic might be required drastic please explain for the court Miss Gordon absolutely bankruptcy is drastic listen if I shut the business down if I filed for bankruptcy then well there's my employees to think about and they have bills to pay and mouss to feed too so miss Gordon we' discussed why you would not like to file for bankruptcy but what would be the best benefits to filing for bankruptcy It's Tricky drastic yes but well you see bankruptcy might also provide some hope a little light maybe even a fresh start for me and GPS I'd now to move on to discuss July of 2023 do you remember the night of July 28th 2023 yes of course I do and what were you doing that night that Friday night I was at the lights out baring Grill why were you there well my friend Ryan Casey and I we'd agreed to meet there to listen to some music catch up maybe talk some business were you and Ryan Casey together the entire time at the bar we weren't Ryan stepped outside to take a phone call at around I would say 1210 and then I took the opportunity to visit the restroom where I had to deal with some delicate matters anyways we were a apart for approximately 25 to 30 minutes Miss Gordon delicate matters could you please explain a little further for the court I'm a bit embarrassed but when I was in the bathroom I had to deal with some what I'll call gastrointestinal problems if you know what I mean plus it was a hot night and I already mentioned my asthma but in fact during me forgetting my inhaler and the unir conditioned bathroom when I returned to my table I was sweating and panting like a puppy when you returned to the table did you interact with Ryan about this you know I just explained to Ryan that I have asthma cuz he expressed some concern Miss Gordon about how far is GPS from likes out baring Grill oh I would say it's around five city blocks and on the night and then on the night of July 28th 2023 did you walk to the bar oh no no not with my as on a hot night both Ryan and I drove to the bar like usual so miss Gordon today we've we've heard testimony from both Tracy ble and Pat Wheeler about their relationship with you and I'd like to discuss that a little now how do you know Tracy vickle well a long time ago vickle and I were in a business together how did that business work out the business did go bankrupt and how would you say that affected your relationship with Miss pickle I would say it affected it poorly I mean Tracy blamed me and said however long it took he would get back at me moving on do you know what Pat Wheeler I do Pat was a former employee of mine why is he a former employee well I fired him shortly before the fire when exactly did you fire him it was back in late March of 2023 and this Gordon why did you fight Pat Wheeler numerous reasons I mean he was refusing work arriving to work late and eavesdropping on my conversations what if anything happen after you fired wheeler right after I fired wheeler he made clear and direct statements to me publicly he said you will regret this day mark my word Miss Gordon do you have a security system at GPS yes we did and did you communicate to Mr Wheeler about the security code I did tell him the code Miss Gordon when you first heard about the fire what was your first thought well I suspected that this was Wheeler's Revenge that he finally did it and Miss Gordon did you ever at any point tell inspector sde in your interview about a possible suspect for this crime absolutely I mean I told inspector sde about what Pat Wheeler had said Thank your honor I have no further questions okay any cross yes your honor good morning Miss W good morning on direct examination you accused Pat Wheeler of committing arson isn't that right I believe that wheeler was the one who set the fire so it's fair to say that you don't really like Mr Wheeler right I would say that wheeler was not a great employee no great your honor may I just ask opposing counsel just slightly move to the side so that counselors can see the witness yes okay I'll ask my question um you fire wheer right I did fire wheeler in late March as I said onir because you believe that he was seed dropping on a confidential call that you were having isn't that right I would say there is as I said undir multiple reasons and that was one of them now miss Gordon surely if this call is confidential you would made sure that your door was closed right um I didn't believe that I needed to close my door I was in my office and I was the owner surely if this call was so confidential you would have made sure that your phone was off of speaker phone um I often like to keep my phone on speaker phone just so I could multitask I didn't see any worry in keeping it on speaker phone and truly if this call was confidential you would have made sure that nobody else was in the room with you no I wanted Leslie Neil to be in the room with me so miss Gordon to be clear despite having another employee in the room your phone on speaker phone and the door open you still claim this call is confident I would say that it was confidential between me Neil and Casey and Pat Wheeler was outside the door Pat Wheeler was EAS dropping outside my door Miss Gordon I didn't ask if he was e dropping I asked if he was outside the door yes he was outside the door and that's why you fired him among other reasons right you also believe that wheeler was stealing from GPS right I briefly did have my suspicions about this objection honor I ask the relevance of whether Miss Gordon believes Pat Wheeler was or not from GPS it makes no facts important to this case more or less probable people your honor this is relevant because it goes The credibility and bias of the defendant against Mr Wheeler credibility is always relevant overrule I'll just re ask that last question um you believe that Mr Wheeler was stealing from GPS right I did have my suspicions about that but you never saw Mr Wheeler stealing did you I did not you never brought up these concerns to Mr Wheeler I believe that I brought up the concerns to Wheeler so this was based on an assumption you would agree with that I had my suspicions now I'd like to talk about your real estate business before working at GPS you were business partners with Tracy Bickle right in 2004 I was yes now it's fair to say that you're not the biggest fan of Mr Bickle um no I think that our relationship was ruined after ble blamed me right he blamed the entire business loss on just you yes absolutely he did M Gordon you would agree with me that Mr ble put more money into this business than you right I would say so so he would have lost more financially more financially but I believe we both invested the same amount into the business right so miss Gordon to be clear you weren't completely honest with Mr ble about the finance of the firm were you objection or rather this testimony is in missal per rule 203 prior acts ni be heard your honor this is relevant or this is relevant because again it shows The credibility of Miss Gordon not only as a business partner in the past but being on the stand today honesty and credibility is always relevant may have you heard your honor yes you may whether or not this testimony is relevant it's inadmissible because it's going against the character of Miss Gordon in her prior actions and therefore is inadmissible for rule two or three all right overrule you can answer the question could you repeat your question now miss Gordon you weren't honest with Mr ble about the finances of the firm were you I wouldn't say that I wasn't honest about the finances is it your testimony that you were honest with Mr ble I would say that there was times when maybe I wouldn't tell ble everything just saving him a headache but M Gordon yes or no were you honest with Mr ble about the finances of the firm I don't believe that I can answer that any a yes or no I think there are some things that maybe I didn't tell wheeler but I never lied to whe or excuse me I never lied to Bickle well you weren't forthcoming with Mr Bickle about the finances were you right there were some things that I didn't tell Bickle so no you were not honest with him I wasn't always forthcoming I would say and you were in this business for many years right we yes I would say that it was many years right so you knew that you had to fill out any type of financial document properly completely right could you repeat that question any Financial document that you would had to fill out you knew that you were to fill it out completely in accurately objection your honor relevance this testimony is more prejudicial than probative than uh yeah carries no probative value is it doesn't make a CA fact more important in this case more or less probable people again this goes to credibility of the witness um I'm just emphasizing the fact that this world is not honest and forthcoming to Mr ble about his finances and I'm just exploring that credibility all right over Ru so I'll just re ask um you were aware that you would to fill out any type of financial documents properly and completely right I would say so and you knew that especially being a partner in this firm you had to be ethical and forthcoming the Bickle about his finances could you repeat that question you had to be ethical forthcoming toal about his finances right I would say that we definitely communicated with each other but you failed to do that right there were some things where I would say I was just trying to save him the headache you were not honest failed to do that isn't that right objection this has been all right CC move on I'll move on now you've talked your financial advisor Ryan Casey in early 2022 about GPS and its finances right I did reach out to Casey at this time and because of all the debt you were in he advised you to take out a federally back loan he did and he helped me secure that loan yes and once you secured this loan you would agree with me that it didn't turn around things for GPS in La run right unfortunately not as much as we had hoped it would and if things didn't turn around would you yes you would just have to do whatever you went to do with regards to bankruptcy yes I did say that you didn't see bankruptcy as an option though did you I definitely was hoping against hope that my business would continue you would even hate to do anything drastic isn't that right absolutely I would say that bankruptcy is drastic now miss Gordon to be clear you had an insurance Poli on board and pay and supplies right since I started my business in 2016 yes I do a $2 million insurance policy yes and after paying off all of your debts you would be pocket you would pocket an additional $1.25 million that's the money that I would be left with from the insurance you could pay off all of your personal debt and professional debt I would say I would definitely pay off all my business debt all of your loans I would say the loan that I took out from my business yes so miss Gordon you would agree with me that if you are acquitted from your charges today you're going to emerge from this fire free and clear from debt I would say that I would be free from my business debt so you would be free and clear from your debt it's a yes or no question I yes as I said yes now miss Gordon let's talk about the night of July 28th you arrived at the bar at about 11:00 to meet Mr py I did yes lights out Bar and Grill and he came shortly after and stepped out to take a phone call as I said undirect he stepped out to take a phone call at around 12:10 now miss Gordon you were aware that Mr KY would have to take a phone call that night right Ryan warned me that he might have to take a phone call right he was hesitant to go out because he knew he would have to do this Ryan did say this yes but you insisted that he' go out with you I did I was looking forward to seeing him you told him that he could just leave the building and take his call I told him if he needed to he could meaning you were aware that Mr Casey would be occupied with this call for some time I knew that he possibly could be on the phone call for around 20 minutes and Mr Casey was taking his call for about 25 minutes yeah I believe he was and you claimed that you were in the bathroom for half an hour I was as I also said undirect I was dealing with some gastrointestinal issues now miss Gordon to be clear during this time period you and Mr Casey were not together correct we were not and you're aware that Tracy ble saw someone exiting the back alley of lights out during the same time period I believe ble did say that and he said that they were wearing a baseball cap yes that's what ble claims sorida you were also wearing a baseball that cap that night weren't you I was wearing a Yankees baseball cap and in the same period of time your business happens to burn down isn't that right my business did burn down when I was at gep or at lights out Bar and Grill and all of the this happens in the same time period that you and Mr casy are not together yes I was in the bathroom at that time and when Mr py came back to the table you were nowhere to be found I was in the bathroom and when you came back Mr casy had some questions for you isn't that right as I had already mentioned onir Casey asked me if I was okay but I assured him I was right he asked you why you looked so anxious Ryan did ask me this why you were completely out of breath I and did and in the next few minutes after this Leslie Neil texted you right unfortunately I did receive a text from Leslie about my building my business you claim this is the first you ever heard about GPS being set on fire right absolutely I was shocked I couldn't believe it so you and Mr Casey rushed over to the paint store in two separate cars right we did drive over now miss Gordon to be clear in the back of your truck had a down of gasoline right I always keep some gas in the back of my truck so I did and you heard investigator seide say today that gasoline was determined to be the accelerant supplier right I believe that's what seide claims let's talk a little bit more about investigator seide you talked to her the morning after the fire right I did talk to seide and you talked about your whereabouts and the fire along some general finances about GPS yes this is true now on Direct ation you never testified to asking seide what happened to your business right well I believe I know what happened to my business it burned to the ground you never asked her what the cause was did you I believe that seide told me they believed it was gasoline but you never I understand seide told you but you never asked seide what happened right I didn't ask seide told me now M Gordon during this interview a cigarette lighter fell out of your pocket right I believe it did it's from my grandpa and this later it works right I would say that it works about half the time it's an old family arloom it turns on right it does so you can get a spark out of that half the time around half the time yeah so you also had this with you you have this with you all the time right absolutely it has great sentimental value for me so you had it with you on July 28th I always have it which just so happens to be the day that your pain store was burned down yes unfortunately that was the day that my warehouse burned down nothing further your honor okay thank you can you redirect can I just have one moment your honor [Music] yes uh permission redirect you may can I proceed you me Miss Gordon how long have you had a casually casualty insurance policy on GPS well I've had Insurance ever since I started my business in 2016 nothing further re honor thank you any recross no recross your honor okay thank you m thank you step down does the defense have any more witnesses yes Jor this time the defense calls Mr Ryan Casey to the stand okay Mr Casey take the stand I do may I proceed you may proceed good morning Mr Cas good morning would you please introduce yourself for the court my name is Ryan Casey and I'm 56 years old where do you currently live I currently reside at 12390 knobhill Drive in Bliss Nirvana what is your educational background Mr Case I graduated with my bachelor's degree in finance from Emory University do you have any advanced degrees I do after graduating with my degree in finance I chose to pursue advanced studies at NYU okay and while at NYU what was your focus of study there business I continued my focus in finance and graduated my MBA my MERS in Business Administration Mr Casey what do you do for a living I am the proud owner and president of Ryan Casey and associate LLC what does Ryan Casey and Associates do we're a firm that offers Financial Planning and investment advice to businesses and individuals could you specifically describe your financial planning work at Ryan Casey and Associates I'd love to so we analyze our clients assets debts cash flow insurance needs things of this nature sometimes we even help them consider bankruptcy Mr Casey do you know Miss Lindsay Gordon I do Lindsay is a good friend and longtime client of mine all right let's talk about the night of July 28th and the early morning of July 29th 2023 now Mr Casey what were you doing on the night of July 28th 2023 Miss Gordon invited me to meet her at lights out Barn Grill when did you and Miss Gordon agree to meet up she had called me two nights prior and although I likely had to take a phone call that night I could not help but go why do you not help the go well I wanted to help my client Lindsay and my favorite band was playing your favorite band what band was that Mr Casey Han Veen I love their stuff Mr Casey what time did you arrive at the bar the night of the 28th I arrived at about 11:15 and when if ever was that phone call you mentioned earlier I stepped outside to take my call at about 12:10 and it lasted till about 12:35 all right so after you stepped outside at around 12:10 when if ever did you see Miss Gordon again when I returned to the table Miss Gordon sat down at about 12:40 looking a bit fluffy fluster looking a bit flustered please explain what you mean Mr Casey Lindsay returned from the restroom sweating and looking anxious but this made sense all right one last question on this so when you stepped outside to take your call about how long was the period of time when you didn't see Miss Gordon about 30 minutes in total thank you let's now talk about your business what is your business relationship with Miss Gordon Miss Gordon is a longtime client of Ryan casy and Associate so we would talk business on regular basis and following the co pandemic in 2022 we began having a series of intense conversations okay let's first talk about early 2022 could you please briefly describe your business conversations with Miss Gordon in early 2022 of course Co caused difficulties and we all know that many businesses struggled to stay afloat during this time so we would talk about these difficulties do you outline what that means Mr Casey several things firstly GP GPS had debts that I believe were too high you said several things Mr Casey were there any other examples another example would be the account receivables they were not coming in fast enough so much so that the business was not stable and then came July of 2022 which seemed a critical month why do you call July 2022 critical Mr Casey in July of 2022 Miss Gordon had to obtain a $250,000 government back loan a loan she had to personally guarantee was there anything else July was also a month that we talked about bankruptcy Mr Casey why did you discuss bankruptcy with Miss Gordon you see bankruptcy is a legal way to help those struggling with their debts how would bankruptcy have benefited in this support under certain circumstances a dtor does not need to pay the full amount owed by their loans and despite any potential downsides this could give her a fresh start what would some of those potential downsides be for Miss Gordon well for example if Miss Gordon filed for bankruptcy then she might need to shut down the business and lay off all the employees thank you Mr Casey let's now one more question on this before you move on how often would you discuss bankruptcy with Miss Gordon frequently for the better part of a year Miss Gordon and I wrestled with the tough possibility of bankruptcy thank you I'd like to direct your attention to your business relationships in early 2023 did the subject of bankruptcy ever come up again in 2023 yes it did it came up in March can you please explain what happened in March of 2023 well I talked again with Miss Gordon about her financial situation can you um what did you learn then I learned that GPS did not appear to be turning around why do you say that well the balance sheet wasn't looking good or the loan situation could you please tell the court more about that loan situation The Hope was that I could restructure the loans especially since there's the possibility that the business could tank Mr Casey if the bank would not not restructure the loans were there any other possibilities before mising well there was the other reasonable option bankruptcy what was Miss Gordon's position on bankruptcy M from my observations Miss Gordon did not want to declare bankruptcy and lay off all the employees all right but what was your ad advice to miss Gordon regarding bankruptcy well I told her what she needed to hear regardless of whether she wanted to hear or not Mr Cas what did you think Miss Gordon need to hear in March of 2023 bankruptcy that bankruptcy was always a reasonable option thank you Mr Casey for your time G to have no further questions okay any cross-examination yes your honor permission to proceed you may proceed good morning Mr Casey good morning you own your own Financial Planning and investment firm correct yes I own my beloved business Ryan cas Associates and you have an extensive educational background in this field I do you believe yourself to be a high caliber financial advisor well I am and that your clients are lucky to work with you they are indeed with all that being said it's fair to say when you give Financial advice you believe it to be sound my advice is usually good advice you give in your opinion the best course of actions for your clients to take I do now Mr Casey Would you agree with me when I say that if one of your larger clients were to fail due to your financial advice it would reflect poorly upon you as a financial advisor could you please repeat the question if one of your larger clients were to take your financial advice and fail it would reflect poorly upon you as a financial advisor objection your honor i' just like to bring the Court's attention to rule 702 which opposing council is asking my my witness a question which is lies outside the fact pattern today in Pro rule 702 this allows the witness to answer in any way may being necessary okay people your honor I'm simply asking to witness his belief on the effect on his business which is certainly within his scope and he's free to respond however he chooses all right overrule yes sorry could you please repeat the question Mr Casey if one of your larger clients were to take your financial advice and fail because of that advice would it reflect poorly upon you as a financial adviser well funny thing that's not always the case in the broad Financial world there's so many variables and moving parts that you all the blame can't be possibly placed on me there's so many other underlying causes usually all the blame can be placed on you did you just said correct yeah all given advice correct I would have given advice that's what I'm paid for and your client would have failed well that wouldn't necessarily be my fault because of all the other factors in the business World in fact businesses usually fail because of other underlying factors so it would not be my fault Mr Casey you testified on direct examination that your company takes into account those underlying factors when giving Financial advice isn't that right generally businesses try to paint themselves better than they look so there there's usually other stuff hidden is yes Mr it is a yes let's talk about the work you did with lindsy bordon in Ju January 2022 Miss Gordon was struggling to restabilize her business after the pandemic correct her business GPS had not fully recovered from the pandemic so at that point he recommended she take out a $250,000 Federal Business Lo at that time looked like the best course of action now the only catch with this loan would be that Miss Gordon would have to personally guarantee it correct I wouldn't necessarily call it a catch that was just one of the Clauses of the loan Miss Gordon was hesitant to personally guarantee this loan correct it's a big risk but through my vast knowledge of the gray areas of Finance I knew it was a risk worth taking Miss Gordon knew that personally guaranteeing this loan would mean personal debt for her this could result in her personal debt yes now this loan didn't work out way you had hoped correct it ended up not working out the way we hoped it had helped shortterm it did help shortterm indeed but in the long run the business was still losing money well due to other underlying factors the business did end up losing more money which is why at this point you recommended the defendant file for bankruptcy bankruptcy was always an option now for people just without your professional background fining for bankruptcy is often seen as the last resort is it not well it does get rid of all the debt and it can be seen as a last resort it would mean this word have to let go of all of our employees not necessarily it it could that could be one of the causes cases sorry and in a typical case she would have to at least temporarily close her business typically yes which is why she was hesitent to filey well you see bankruptcy it's really really humbling no proud business owner ask Mr casy Jon I would just asked that opposing Council allow my witness to finish their answer feel they can't answer with a yes hold on okay you want to respond I don't believe the witness is answering my question he's talking about what specifically bankruptcy is I'm simply asking if Miss Gordon did end up fing for bankruptcy I'm going to over or Ru the objection I thought the witness was not answering the question yes your honor could you please repeat the question Miss Gordon was hesitant to file for bankruptcy because that's correct could you please explain what this is I kind of forgot Miss Gordon didn't want to fire her employees Miss Gordon did not want to fire her employees she didn't want to temporarily close her business and no she did not want to temporarily so she was adamant about not filing for bankr it was her drastic measure right in one of these conversations lindsy Gordon expressed her frustrations to over the phone correct she did and in that conversation she said she would hate to do anything drastic correct she said this in relation to bankruptcy Mr Casey you don't specifically know what Lindy gon was referring to do you that's my assumption yes it's simply an assumption well due to my financial caliber I can and my long work and my long friendship with lindsy Gordon I'm almost positive it refers to bankruptcy but you weren't the one that made this statement no I was not let's talk about the night of July 28th Miss Gordon called you on the 26 to invite you out to drink for the 28 correct that is correct and in that initial phone call on the 26 you informed the defendant that you would have to step outside and take a phone call with a relative correct well not necessarily would I wouldn't say it like that it was a possibility that a phone call could come in and because of that possibility you were hesitant to agree to go to the Bor for at first yes that's correct you told Miss Gordon that this call would probably take around 20 minutes this call if it came in could take 20 minutes or more yet miss Gordon insisted that you go to the B for that night she did let's talk about that specifically the 28th you and the defendant both arrived around 11: a.m. correct this is true and you were together from that point until 12:10 a.m. yes 12:10 was when I stepped outside to take my call you Ste outside the front door of Lights Out bar in World correct that is correct the main entrance of the bar one of the main entrances yes which would be the sidewalk on Spring Street no I believe it would be the sidewalk on South poer Avenue the front of the bar is facing Spring Street cor Mr Casey well there are many entrances and that's what I believe you asked now when you were on your phone call you were focused on your conversation correct yes reasonably so you weren't actively looking for Lindsay gbon I had no need to I knew she was in the bar and you weren't actively looking down the back alley like bar in R I had no reason to look down the back alley your call concluded around 12:35 a.m. correct this is true and at that point you returned to your table I did return to my table yes and when you arrived the defendant was not there no she was not she was in the restroom you didn't see the defendant come from the direction of the restroom did you well you see that wouldn't really be good for our personal or professional relationship so no you didn't see the direction where the defendant is coming from no I did not the only knowledge you have of where the defendant was from 12:10 to 12:40 a.m. is what she told you that is correct now when Miss Gordon returned to the table she was sweating correct this was because of her asthma which is just what she told you correct it's something I've experienced through my long working with the defendant Miss Gordon wasn't actively having an asthma attack when she returned to the table well she was recovering from it but it appeared as if she was having an asthma attack prior and when she returned to the table she was also out of breath she was out of breath now let's talk about the insurance on Gordon P supplies as M Gordon's financial adviser you would be aware of this policy correct I am aware of her insurance policy yes which is a $2 million cty insurance policy yes one that she's had since April of 2016 now Mr Casey if Miss Gordon were to receive the insurance the payout on this policy it would be enough to extricate her from all her debts correct yes if she received the payout from her $2 million policy she would be cleared of her debt it could pay for all her debt enough to cover the debt on board and paying supplies correct yes it could cover that debt as well as the debt remaining from that loans she personally guaranteed yes it could cover that debt as well and if after clearing out this debt Miss Gordon would net approximately $1.25 million correct that is correct which is $1.25 million more than the defendant would have if her business had it burn de yes that would have been the case no further questions [Music] okay any redirect yes your honor Mr Casey you mentioned an insurance policy on Gordon pay supplies based on your knowledge how long has Miss Gordon had this policy Miss Gordon has had her PO policy since April of 2016 and you also talked about the financial problems that Gordon Payne supplies could you just to the best of your knowledge tell the court about when was the time you first started discussing bankruptcy with Miss Gordon well I can't really remember for certain but I remember that prior to July of 2022 we discussed bankruptcy multiple times thank you Mr Casey for your time your honor have no further questions okay any request yes your honor okay Mr Casey if Miss bordon were to receive her insurance policy she would no longer need to file for bankruptcy isn't that correct objection your honor ask an answer over I'll re ask my question Mr if Miss Gordon were to receive her insurance policy she would no longer need to file for bankruptcy correct there would be no need to file for bankruptcy no further questions okay thank you witness May step down thank you thank you [Music] okay does the defense have any more witnesses yes your honor I just time the defense calls Miss Leslie stand okay Miss Neil take the stand please I may proed yes you may good morning Miss Neil good morning please state your name and age for the court my name is Leslie Neil and I'm 31 Miss Neil where do you live I currently live at 1905 Franklin Street in Bliss Nirvana please describe your educational background well I have a bachelor's degree in history and a master's degree in organizational psychology both from Nirvana state do you know Miss Gordon yes she was my boss at GPS when did you start to work at Gordon Payton twise it was around 7 going on 8 years ago now you see I began in May of 2016 now when you first began at GPS what did you do I worked closely with the owner Miss Lindsay Gordon and learned a lot from her what specific tasks did you perform at GPS I mostly worked with promotional materials I even got to come up with a tagline from one of our mailers but I would really pitch him with anything you said you learned a lot from Miss Gordon can you explain for the court Gordon taught me how to manage you could say run a business by what means did Miss Gordon do this Gordon was very Hands-On she worked side by side with me helped us all accordingly and interacted with us how did Miss Gordon interact with her employees she would talk to us and ask us for input making the average employee like me feel appreciated in this and in other ways in what other ways did you feel appreciated for the most part I loved my job and was very appreciative of it Gordon treated me well and paid me well also what do you mean for the most part there was this employee Pat Wheeler let's now talk about your observations of Pat now you testified that you began working at GPS in 2016 do you know when Pat began working at GPS he began later on in the same year that is 2016 to what extent if at all did you work with Pat already in 2016 we were working side by side What observations if any did you make about wheeler after the pandemic I noticed he began coming in late a lot but that was just the beginning pleas explain coming in late was one thing but I observed when Pat was given a job to do he would refuse to do it he was fired on March 24th 20123 do you recall the events of March 24th unfortunately yes I I will not forget that day for a while was there any time you talked to the defendant that day yes Lindsay and I discussed financial matters you see GPS wasn't doing so well when you were discussing financial matters with Miss Gordon can you summarize your conversation for the court bankruptcy our discussions about bankruptcy really stood out to me how if it all does this relate to Pat Wheeler like I said Lindsay and I were talking although it was unnown to us at first we noted Pat Wheeler listening in on our conversation this did not work out very well for him how so he was fired what happened after that he warned lindsy Gordon about what might happen in the future what did he say specifically Pat said after getting fired you will regret this day mark my word let's now talk about the night of the fire where were you on the night of the fire at about 10: I was at a noble gas station where I saw Pat Wheeler what was Pat Wheeler doing well he opened his trunk and took out a container a container please describe the container it was about a two gallon container it held gasoline what if anything did Pat do with this container well he filled it up with gas what happened next we made eye contact and Pat immediately looked startled what did pet wheeler do after that quickly he finished what he was doing loaded this into his trunk and drove off into the night on that night when if ever did you see Pat fill up his car with gas your honor I never saw Pat Wheeler put gas in his car tank could you please confirm for the court which Friday this was this was the same night July 28th 2023 when just 2 hours later the Ware house burned down now miss Neil what did you do after seeing Pat fill up his gas can I went home and fell asleep on my roof when did you learn about the fire I woke up to the smell of smoke I saw the Flames I had to go down there and confirm that this was really true did you drive to GPS yes immediately I drove down there I saw the fire trucks in the building a blaze after arriving what did you do next I informed Lindsay Gordon via text that the building was burning down now miss Neil did you ever talk to anyone about the events in this night yes an investigator named Kelly seide interviewed me what was this interview about I explained to inspector seide about seeing Pat Wheeler at the gas station on the night of the fire what was the common substance of this conversation two things firstly I explained to the inspector the day on which Pat Wheeler was fired specifically I tried to make it very clear Pat's reaction to his firing and what he said to miss lindsy Gordon can you please clarify what you told inspector seide Mr Wheeler said you will regret this day mark my word Miss Neil you said two things what was the second second thing secondly I described how I saw a Wheeler at the gas station on the night of the fire how after seeing me he acted quickly drove away without filling up his car by taking this newly filled gas can with him thank your honor I have no further questions okay thank you any cross-examination yes your [Music] honor I have good morning good morning you an employee of bord of PE right yes for almost eight years right you were there for almost eight years yes and your boss was the defendant lindsy Gordon was my boss yes she was an amazing boss right you and the defendant had a good relationship yes we did you loved working for the defendant I really did she was great to work for and you would do anything for the defendant hyperbolically speaking yes I would you would do anything for her hyperbolically yes and during the pandemic you were one of the few IM kept on isn't that right yes I was so thankful that I got to keep my job you Pat wheer and two accounts were kept on right yes but you and wheer didn't have the best relationship no I wouldn't I wouldn't say that we did right you didn't like that wheer no he was not the best person you accuse him of refusing tasks he did refuse tasks on multiple occasions yes you said he came in to work late yes he did multiple times you even accused him of trying to steal your boyfriend well yes he definitely was a factor in this relationship and after wheer was fired you were thr isn't that correct yes I believe we all were he was not a good employee despite that being a GPS lost one of very few employees yes I believe that it was a good choice for the business now miss NE on direct examination you testified that you were at the noble gas station in fire isn't that right yes I was where I saw Pat Wheeler right you claim you seeing Pat Wheeler at the gas station yes I did see Pat Wheeler at the gas station on the night of the fire and you claim that Pat Wheeler must have been the one whoit this crime isn't that right well Pat Wheeler told us to mark his words so you can mark mine if you want Pat Wheeler is narsist but you didn't try and talk to Wheeler that evening no I did not we made eye contact he seemed really startled so really you had no idea where wheeler was going after you saw him no I do believe he had some nefarious intentions but you have no idea where whe was going no but he did not fill up his car and just filled a gas can it seemed really odd to me that's not what I asked you have no idea where wheeler was going after you saw I did not follow him so no I do not know where he went and later that evening you were the one to tell your boss that GPS was burning down unfortunately yes I was the one to inform lindsy Gordon via text that GPS was burning you texted the defendant right yes I did I believed it was the quickest way of communication so just to clarify when you found out that your boss's business was burning down you didn't find it necessary to call her I believed it was quicker to just text her so could come right over it it was a shock but you didn't call her no I texted her and if the direct examination you testified that lindsy Gordon taught you how to run a business isn't that right that is correct so naturally you were involved in financial management GPS Lindsay was very open and honest about this you were aware of the efforts the Gordon took to try and stabilize her business some of them yes she laid off employees as we already said unfortunately yes due to co did have to lay off some employees she laid off 21 employees yes she did and to your knowledge she had an insurance policy on her business yes and you never discussed with her her failure to pay these premiums on her multi-million dollar insurance policies I did not have access to any I believe First this is outside the scope of direct examination and further M NE has not testified to this in her affidavit opposing Council has asking my witness questions outside of the affidavit um and so per rule 702 my witness can answer in any way she deems necessary right people in response to outside the uh direct I not confined to what is testified on direct and in response to outside of her affidavit I'm merely asking her what or what not did she discuss with Gordon I'm not asking her to speculate okay overall could you r a question to your knowledge Gordon never stopped paying the premiums on her multi-million dollar insurance policy isn't that right I did not have access to the books and this was not something Gordon had discussed with me right she never discussed that with you no I didn't see it necessary I never asked and you were also aware the Gordon took out loans to try and stabilize the business right yes this was one of the many efforts she took to save the business and one of these loans was a $200,000 federally back loan isn't that right that sounds correct which she would have to personally guarantee sure so although she was responsible for her business before now GPS failed she would be personally liable financially objection I believe opposing council is asking my witness to speculate if she knows can you re ask a question so although Gordon was responsible for her business before now if GPS failed she would be personally liable financially I'm not sure what Gordon I did not have access to the books I was not one of the business's accountant so I I'm not really sure what she would be and to your knowledge Gordon had no way of paying back these phones is not right I was not Gordon's accountant so I don't know what money she had or did not have you're not aware of any other income that she had coming in I was not aware of anything now nothing onest okay can you redirect may I have one moment yes I have no reor on okay we're going to take a short recess five minutes and we prepare for closing ready R you ready come to order so res support session okay all right good morning again U we're getting set for closing arguments is the defense prepared to go forward with their closing arguments yes we are your honor okay you may proceed [Music] may it please the court this case screams Reasonable Doubt everything my co-counselor said in opening statements has come true during today's trial confirmation bias is the enemy of Truth two unaccounted for suspects one seen carrying the accelerant just 2 hours prior to the fire and an investigator who was not inclined to follow up this case screams reasonable doubt you're honor bad investigations lead to bad prosecutions and bad convictions today the prosecution must be able to exclude every hypothesis except for the one of guilt your honor the entire burden of proof today rests on the prose ution shoulders they must prove my client lindsy Gordon not probably guilty not very likely guilty but guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and according to people versus James Mills on page 112 they must exclude to a moral certainty every other reasonable hypothesis that is the prosecution must be able to exclude every hypothesis except for the one of guilt and that would appropriately include ruling out other suspects today we make three points to that end first the prosecution's investigation into today's case was tainted biased and wholly inadequate investigator seide made up her mind immediately having tunnel vision from the very beginning and Laser focused on one suspect and one suspect only investigator seide was more concerned with her own career advancement than she was with finding the truth and getting it right your honor investigators are supposed to wait until all evidence is in before coming to their conclusion not with seide seide came to her conclusion before filing her preliminary report while knowing that Pat Wheeler had the motive means and opportunity to commit arson knowing that Pat Wheeler had threatened my client lindsy Gordon knowing that Pat Wheeler was seen in the area of the store on the night of the fire knowing that P Pat Wheeler had fantasized about damaging GPS and knowing that Pat Wheeler was seen carrying gasoline on the night of fire seph ignores all of this and files her report anyway laser focused on one suspect and one suspect only investigator seide was not looking for the truth she was looking for lindsy Gordon and further when the investigator finally interviewed wheeler after already filing her report she completely breaks an investigation protocol by warning and tipping off the suspect in instead of waiting to see how he would truly answer and then on the stand today investigator site said it's best practice to do this to warn suspects and tip off Witnesses and worse hard to believe your honor but it's true this investigator finds someone with motive loading up on gasoline on the night of the arson just blocks away from where the arson happened and the investigator never asks where Pat Wheeler was thaty Pat Wheeler has no alabi at all in fact seide never asked him for one never asked him where he was at the time of the fire and then the report not only incomplete but contains errors about matters critical to the case as to the alleged timing of the events occurring according to seide things can vary by 5 minutes your honor the timing in this case is critical and 5 minutes of error is enough for reasonable doubt it's not only Pat Wheeler your honor Tracy ble no matter how long it would take swore to get back at lindsy Gordon no matter how long does investigator Severide find out where Tracy ble was at the time the fire started no this investigator lacks credibility and confidence the investigation into today's case in itself creates Reasonable Doubt confirmation bias is the enemy of the truth second the prosecution has simply provided insufficient evidence today failing to rule out the possibility of Miss Gordon's innocence contrary to people versus chaines your honor millions of businesses suffered through Co and millions of businesses have insurance that does not prove that ourson occur the prosecution has not proven to you today that a crime was committed at all they have not proven that this was not an accident that is just what SE presumed before even starting her investigation your honor we heard today how Miss Gordon loves her employees how she would never want to hurt them bankruptcy was her last resort because she cared for her employees and she's committed to them the business burning down is the worst possible thing that could happen further Miss Gordon's understanding of the insurance was that it would only cover her business loans not any personal loans she had further he honor the prosecution cannot Place Miss Gordon at the scene of the fire Tracy Bickle the identification witness in today's case clearly is still very angry at Miss Gordon for their failed business venture over a decade ago and is still holding thege so the only ID we have is from a very biased witness who was in a moving car looking into a dark alley without their glasses on and alleges that saw someone with a hat covering the person's head and they never saw the person's face that is not a positive identification by any means Bickle testified that he hasn't seen Gordon in years he also testified that he was not able to identify the face of the person he saw that is not a positive identification further the testimony we've heard today from Tracy Bickle was that she told he told seide it only might have been lindsy Gordon so by his own words he acknowledges it's not a positive identification he even had a drive back to confirm but was unable de honor the investigator's entire case is built upon the testimony of a taxi cap driver who had to drive back to confirm any potential identification in the state of Nirvana we do not convict People based upon Mayes and might have been which then leads us to number three the prosecution's obligation to exclude to a moral certainty every other reasonable hypothesis the prosecution must be able to exclude every hypothesis except for the one of guilt and they have failed to do that today with respect to the other Suspects the prosecution claims that all evidence in today's case points to lindsy Goron but let's continue with Tracy Bickle your honor the witness who on the stand today again clearly clearly still angry at Miss Gordon the one who swore however long it takes I will get back at lindsy Gordon she saw the fire she was there she has the means motive and opportunity to commit Arsen and has not been ruled out by the prosecution today and seide took no steps to rule him out as a suspect and then your honor we have Pat Wheeler the Achilles heel the death blow the final nail in the coffin for the prosecution's case today Pat Wheeler's own words and testimony scream Reasonable Doubt and for sure canot be will doubt with moral certainty as required by people versus James Mills on page 112 Pat Wheeler the disgruntled former employee of Miss Gordon's was fired in March for not doing his job and in the day he was fired he threatened L's he said you will regret this day mark my words on the stand today Mr Wheeler admitted to having fantasies about damaging the paint store your honor that is a very specific fantasy not just any general threat he was seen buying a 2 gallon gasoline container on the night of the fire and was seen in the area of the store your honor the fact that the prosecution cannot tell you where Pat Wheeler was at the time of the fire requires this court to acquit lindsy Gordon your honor from the beginning of time people have fallen prey to confirmation bias fixating their eyes on the first shiny object that appears in front of them and it blinds them to all other evidence araq confirmation bias is the enemy of the truth this case screams Reasonable Doubt two unaccounted for suspects one seen carrying the accelerant on the night of the fire and an investigator who was not inclined to follow up this case screams Reasonable Doubt which is why today we ask that you find for the defense thank you thank you Council are the people prepared to proceed to their closing yes your honor permission to approach for the purpose of retrieving evidence may approach okay [Applause] may I proceed your honor you may this is a case about lies loans and Lindsay Gordon someone who washed away her death with a canister of gasoline and Spark today the prosecution at the burden Pro Beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant dided arson in the third degree and set her business Gordon paint supplies on fire after hearing all the evidence and testimony presented today it's clear we've met that let's go back to the beginning say you learned that following the pandemic Gordon paint supplies was plunged deeper into death unable to pay her employees the defendant reduced her staff from 25 to 4 you heard from two of those employees today Leslie Neil and Pat wheer They testified to the stressful work environment at board pain supplies which was created by the financial stress the company was under they testified to the additional work those four employees had to do just to say a Flo the way the business was operating at this time was not sustainable and the defendant knew that as a result she took out and personally guaranteed a $250,000 Federal Business business loan you heard testimony today that despite this loan the defendant's business continued to fail only now her personal finances were on the C it's at this point that Miss Gordon was advised to file for bankruptcy by her close friend and financial adviser Ryan Casey who you heard from today when Mr Casey took the stand today he told you that fining for bankrupcy is seen as an absolute Last Resort a strong indication of just how dire def defend financial situation was who despite this continuous advice from Mr Casey over years the defendant refused to file for bankruptcy the defense has told you this was because she was desperate to save for business but the evidence has shown just the opposite filing for bankruptcy would ruin Gordon's reputation credit and close her business but if someone were to set fire to Gordon paint supplies and ly Gordon could collect on her insurance policy her reputation would be salvaged her debt eliminated and she would have the funds to reopen the business she loved so much and that's just what she did first she manufactured an alibi inviting Ryan Casey to Lights Out Bar and Grill the night of July 28th knowing there would be a 30-minute period between 12:10 and 12:40 a.m. when Mr Casey would have to step outside and take a phone call providing the defendant with opportunity you heard testimony today that Miss Gordon was seen outside the lights out Bar and Grill in the back alley of the bar at 12:15 a.m. contrary to her testimony from this back alley she could not be seen by Mr Casey who's taking his call outside one of the main doors of the bar and she had the opportunity to sneak to her paint store the prosecution submits it's within this 30 minute period that the defendant snu out of the bar ran up her paint store staged a Breakin and committed arson in the third degree the next person to see the defendant was Ryan Casey when she returned to their table at 12:40 a.m. When Miss Gordon returned she was sweating and completely unable to breathe almost as if she had been right the defendant's only explanation for this is that the bar bathroom was hot your honor it's no coincidence that the time the defendant was complet unaccounted for and seen outside of the bar aligns with the time of the fire that would make her a millionaire Kelly seide from the city of bliss arson investigation department was tasked with conducting a complete and accurate investigation of this fire over the course of today's proceedings the defense has attacked her tactics and credibility as an investigator but you've heard of her extensive experience working in the arson investigation department for 15 years as as a police officer for 12 years before that when Miss ever took the stand today she testified to the routine procedure she followed throughout her investigation including the diagram she created depicting the whereabouts of cat wheeler the night of the fire who the defense claim Miss de didn't investigate enough your honor if Miss deite didn't investigate Pat Wheeler why would she create a diagram with his whereabouts on it the night of the fire you also learned of the physical evidence she gathered in relation to this case including gasoline residue and the lighter the defendant always keeps on her person you learned today that the defendant had this lighter on her the night of the figh giving her the means to commit this crime the defenses claimed that this lighter Works about half the time that it's unable to start a fire but a lighter doesn't need to work the first time to create a scarf throughout for investigation Miss SE conducted several interviews with past and present employees paint supplies including an interview with the defendant herself during the specific interview Miss seide learned that the defendant keeps a gasoline container in the bed of her truck at all times upon further investigation Miss SE discovered gasoline droplets around the rim of this container indicating it had been recently refilled which was contrary to the defendant's testimony connecting the gasoline residue found in theine to the gasoline the defendant had readily available the night of the fire as her truck was in the bar parking lot Miss Cai decided to look further into lyy Gordon she discovered the defendant had motive after speaking to Ryan Casey the financial advisor and learning of the 2 million casualty insurance policy the defendant had on her business Miss seide learned that this policy would be enough to extricate the defendant from all her personal debt all her business debt in addition to her pocketing 1.25 million Miss also learned what we already know that the defendant was completely unaccounted for from 12:10 to 12:40 a.m. with the time and resources Miss had to conduct this investigation she explored all the leads but all the evidence LED back to lindsy Gordon the defense fabricated his story much like the defendant reated for Alibi that Pat Wheeler was the one to crime the basis for their accusation after being fired in March before the fire almost 6 months between the time of his firing in the fire Mr Wheeler appeared to be emotional and upset on his way out the door your honor this is a man who spent nearly seven years of his life at Gord and paint supplies he was there through Co through financial troubles through the times when four people were doing the jobs of 25 and he feels that he was is wrongfully terminated terminated for hearing an an incriminating statement the defendant had made on the phone it's just aile Mr Wheeler would be upset at the time of his termination but just because he was upset at the time of his termination doesn't mean he's going to commit a felon lindsy Gordon had 2 million reasons to commit this crime Pat Wheeler had none and we should not let this story distract us from what the evidence has already proven today that leads to importantance is guilty the defendant is being charged with arson in the third degree which states a person is guilty when they intentionally damage a building by starting a fire or causing an explosion there are a few key elements to this law the Damage Done to the building the intention to start the fire and the identity of the purpose the defense has claimed that we haven't proven there was even a crime committed today but the intention of the crime is clear through the presence of gasoline res this was no accident your honor gasoline residue doesn't just appear on the floor of a paint store the Damage Done to the building is completely Undisputed no one's questioning that the building was completely destroyed and the identity of the perpetrator is what we're here to talk about today and your onat evidence is strongest we've proven that lindsy Gordon was facing bankruptcy she had massive amounts of debt both personally and on her business she was seen outside the life out foren Grill the night of July 28 just minutes before her building would erupt in flame and she has ready access to gasoline and a spark that night in the case of people versus Sharon Van the Court ruled that permissible instances regarding Financial State may be made by a rational try or fact in order to establish the defendant head motive you've heard today that lindsy Gordon had massive amounts of Deb her only way out was receiving her insurance payout the defendant was chased with Choice arson or bankruptcy the evidence has proven how she chose today the prosecution had the burden to prove Beyond reasonable doubt that Lindy bordon committed arsoning in the third degree and set her business bord pain F on fire after hearing all the evidence presented today it's clear we've met that burden and it's that this time I ask you hold Lindsay Gordon accountable for what she's done and return the verdict of guilty thank you councel cour we take a short recess [Applause] work he six okay morning again everyone my name is Oliver young and I'm the uh chair of the high school MK trial subcommittee of the law Youth and citizenship uh uh committee and I um once again want to congratulate all eight teams that competed um in this all finals the um and especially the two teams that competed uh this morning um we witnessed a an extraordinary uh exercise so again another round of [Applause] applause the funny thing happened to me last week uh I'm a in my day job and I'm a personal injury lawyer in Buffalo uh New York and I work for a small Pi uh law firm and the uh founder of the law firm uh is looking to expand uh and move into a open a solid office in in a Falls and this funny story is somewhat related to uh this trial or SM trial case anyway uh he's um looking at a building uh up in um in in nagro falls for the satellite office and uh so he drives up uh and I'm driving separately um it gives me the address uh it's on Main Street in Niagara Falls and he tells me um you won't miss it it's uh easy to find uh if is right next door to a paint store and all the time I'm driving up to n Falls to find this place and praying that that the name of this paint store is Cordon it would it would have made my day turns out it was not named Gordon but but still um this was again a great match uh performed by two great teams and presided over by a great justice so uh the name of of your judge uh this morning and uh is Judge Eddie Maan Machan and judge michan uh is an associate Justice of the Appel division uh through depart uh and that's here in in Albany um however he uh is is a Supreme Court Justice from uh Bronx Supreme Court the um he's a graduate of St Lawrence University uh the and the Maxwell school at Syracuse and Syracuse law school he served as a law clerk to Bronx Supreme Court Justices Frank to Torres uh from 1998 to 1999 and to latia Martin from 1999 to 2008 his judicial career began in the New York City civil court from 2013 to 2018 and as an acting Supreme Court Justice from 2016 to 2018 Jos michan was elected in 2018 to the Supreme Court as a Supreme Court Justice for the 12th Judicial District where uh Bronx um County is located now the most important uh aspect or thing uh for us in justice machan's background is that he and and get this he served as president of the third Good Marshall junr mock trial program so the judge very well understands what you've gone through over the past uh four months and he knows well uh what Mark TR is all about so let's give a round of applause to judge Mich turn it over to the judge all first let me congratulate both teams this is the probably unquestionably I shouldn't say probably unquestionably the best mock trial program that I have ever seen and I have been doing mock trials for the past 25 years so congratulations to both sides very well prepared very well argued very well organized so congratulations to you [Applause] both and what a tough case I mean this case came down to circumstantial evidence both sides had very excellent Witnesses congratulations to the witnesses witnesses don't get all a lot enough credit in M TR progam [Applause] but believe me the witnesses you do make a difference I mean this the scoring is so close so any loss of a point or any discrepancy that may have happened sometimes falls on the witnesses so uh I want to give Witnesses credit because you guys do not get the attention it's like the lineman in the football game right the lineman never gets the credit only the running backs and the quarterbacks and the wide receivers they get all their credit but you you guys are the Align you guys did a fantastic job okay the attorneys phenomenal both sides openings were great your closings were great direct cross phenomenal it's hard for a judge to decide wow how how how do we make how we find a difference here you're talking about a tough tough decision and this is a Statewide competition so I'm sure you guys have plenty of practice so right by time you get here you have really really performed to another level so great job you are the quarterbacks you are the the running backs and the wi receiver so great job to you guys as [Applause] well all right now you put all the pressure on me because now I gotta decide whether Miss Gordon goes home or she's going to travel back to me and we're going to take up the Attica we not sure where we going [Music] to initially let me state that um I do believe the people presented a legally sufficient case in other words the case would have survived a motion to dismiss if a motion to dismiss would have been made after the people's case and after the end of the trial so in terms of the circumstantial evidence excellent job presting presenting your case okay um now I have to decide whether or not Mrs Gordon walks up Can Can the defendant please stand all right we have a officer around no okay in the case of the people of the state of New York of Nirvana versus Lindsey Gordon after reviewing all the evidence and hearing all the arguments the court finds the defendant not [Applause] guilty the court does believe that the raised enough Reasonable Doubt uh to Warrant such a finding so therefore M Gordon you are free to go home congratulations again to both [Applause] sides okay I con close defense is the uh team that won this year's competition [Applause] good competition yeah great competition and up [Music] a