[Music] it's time for our annual summer sale and that means everything on proko.com is 15% off it's got to be 20% off for the future it's [ __ ] uh okay I guess it's 20% off [Music] then make it last for a month okay until July 5th get 20% off our courses on drawing painting sculpting Anatomy concepting comics and a bunch of other stuff you can double up on discounts by bundling multiple courses and use discount code summer sale that's pr.com and use code summer sale it worked the future is safe pr.com code summersale hello everybody Welcome to a live stream uh today I'm I'm here with Josh Black who you guys might know from his brand new course uh here on fro uh so Josh is an anatomy teacher who I think people people seem to like what you teach Josh they like the art that you make they like the things that you teach them about about it uh how's your day going so far oh it's it's been uh a busy morning that sounds right lots of uh attempted prep work and uh attending to my kids a lot so that sounds right it's been one of those mornings yeah and I mean on top of that you're a busy concept artist working in the game industry uh do do you do you do work for hire outside of the studio that you work at uh yeah not not a whole lot um since we're uh a startup company we're we're pretty busy we're a smaller team uh so our workload is is pretty big it uh it's awesome like I love working for um an independent Studio a startup you get to wear multiple hats it's definitely more more work yeah that's fair uh so yeah I appreciate you taking the time today away from your busy kids schedule uh teaching other people drawing for so many things uh to do this stream today we're here kind of in support of the proo summer sale we've got going right now which can allow you to save 20% off on things like future Stan said in that video you guys just saw um but yeah Josh is gonna be doing some Anatomy lessons some uh some breakdowns right yeah yeah today I I thought we could do like a open drawing session together uh so I I included all the ref on my screen so hopefully uh everyone can follow along and these are kind of what I call focused studies um where we're we're just going to zoom in on one part of the body and kind of focus on that uh so we can go a little more in depth on the anatomy uh instead of zooming out and doing a full body gesture and yeah that have like several images that we can draw during this live stream and um yeah I think it'll be I I'll try to give tips and uh thoughts here and there but I think for the most part we'll just try to draw together yeah okay yeah if you guys have any questions about anything that Josh is doing throughout it he'll be talking about his process but uh if you have any particular questions just drop them here in the chat and kind of just start them with a little Q just so I can see them a little bit easier otherwise I'll just they'll just be lost in all of the things of people asking if the stream will be archived yes it will right Josh take it away all right um so if you've watched or followed my YouTube channel or any of these previous videos I've done I I always start off with warm-up exercises uh so I I think we'll we'll start off with that um I'm using my soft sketch brush um just so you know that that's like a question I get all the time I think every artist gets that question so I wanted to throw that out there I appreciate that um you're welcome uh the thing I really like about this brush though is it has uh if I enlarge it you can see it has a soft Edge on one side and a hard Edge on another side so I I think by default it gives you a little more variation um and excitement to your line it's fair um and when you apply a little bit of pressure you can kind of get a softer line lighter line for um doing block ends and lay-ins uh which is really nice and then if you uh shrink the brush down and get that nice like really sharp line um I I know a lot of people ask me like how I get that variation and that's that's how you do it just as enlarge the brush when you get want that softer line and apply a little less pressure and then shrink the brush down get that sharper line uh do you is this a brush that comes with your course uh yeah yeah definitely uh this is one of uh a dozen of my favorite sketch brushes that I include in the anatomy uh kit bundle so this is probably my favorite one right now um that I love love doing my gestures with nice okay you guys can find that I know this like we've had so many mentions of courses and things um but if you guys are interested in the course that he's talking about and the brushes he's talking about um there's a link in the description as well as a link here on screen uh looks like you're doing your your warm-ups now Josh yeah yeah I so I I usually start off just filling pages with uh circles and ellipses it's a it's a way for me to warm up my wrist and my shoulder um when I'm doing these circles I'm trying to draw uh more with my shoulder if you watch the the screen of me you can kind of well I have a black shirt on so probably hard to see but I am I'm rotating um my shoulder to get these uh more controlled ellipses and circles M and going give you like go like a full screen here let me see I'll solo you look at that here I'll do a big big one there we go you can see all that nice exciting shoulder movement that's how you do it okay um so yeah I do a series of those and then I'll focus a little more on ellipses kind of break those up like little pizzas and perspective um and I usually do these fairly quick in a lot of my post you'll kind of see these little warmup shapes um filling up some of the empty space I I'm constantly doing these just to kind of keep my uh hand ey coordination and my wrist and shoulder warm so I it's a a really good exercise and then when I uh do some of those lipes I'll do some basic primitive um more threedimensional shapes like cylinders um I'll do some cones and when I'm doing these I'm trying to draw through the form MH uh so it's okay if you have you know the underlying lines showing up let's I'm actually I'm curious here I'm going to ask you guys here in the chat I'm going to do a poll to find out some truths about you guys uh I'm curious if you guys do your warm-ups before you draw because I think a lot of people forget to do this yeah it it would be disastrous for me if I just Dove right in um so I think this is a really good thing to remind yourself to do um before you uh draw anything whether it's uh concept art or figure drawing or illustration or whatever it is it's nice to there there's a thing uh I remember so you know people they'll post their their procreate time lapses uh and I noticed that there are a few people who actually do their warm-ups and you'll see that in the drawing time lapse uh like it's probably their first drawing for the day or something and so you'll see what what's this final piece it's going to be some like super epic dragon fighting an angel or something uh and so you see the piece and then it goes to the white screen and it's just them drawing like cylinders ellipses straight lines and then then the actual piece starts to build out so it warms my heart every time I see it yeah I mean these they're like the fundamental shapes that you can kind of reduce any image down into or object and so I think it's always I know for a lot of students it's when they hear this they're probably like oh not not cubes not cylinders not cones please like I know this already but you know it's uh one of those things that is always going to be helpful um I think regardless of uh how far along you are with your um your academic uh studies and uh with your career I think it's always helpful yeah absolutely um I guess there are a couple questions that can fit kind of here early on uh so we had a person asking uh are your brushes for all platforms I I think they can be used on procreate I'm not sure I don't use procreate um did you did you you built these for Photoshop first yeah yeah these are they're ABR files mhm um so I I think you can transfer those to procreate yeah as long as they don't use hyper specific brush Dynamics things you should be able to use them elsewhere uh I it doesn't sound like you have anything too crazy maybe like the brush tilt um but most of the functionality of the brushes should uh work on both well on multiple not just progr in Photoshop yeah I I definitely need to do more research on uh procreate there's so many people that are using that now and um I work from home and I I I have my wackin stique that I use and i' I've had it for like 13 years now and just I love that feels the most like traditional sketching so I haven't really dabbled in uh any of those other uh platforms yeah I mean especially if if you're in a situation where you're doing something uh where people are going to be using it in other Adobe programs sometimes it's easier just to work inside of that infrastructure like I find myself drawing in Photoshop when I'm home because I'm gonna take that over into after effects to make it move or something like that um so we did get a confirmation here in the chat from Susan uh I'm G to say your last name is na uh Susan saying that uh they can I'm taking the course and using procreate and his brushes uh and they also say also on Affinity so thank you Susan oh awesome yeah thank you now I can with confidence answer that question that's awesome yeah if anyone does have any weird things that come up let us know on the course page we want to know um so just to I'm I'm going to close this poll from earlier thank you all for answering in it uh we got 52% yes for people actually doing their warm-ups whether that's indicative of the full proo audience or just the people who want to tune in to a Josh Hunter black stream I don't know but at least the people who are here and want to see you drawing live and ask you questions they do warm-ups aw that is that is great to hear uh Josh are your brushes available separate from your course um I also have them on uh gumroad with uh broken up smaller tutorials um but they're they're usually uh there's like four or five uh on most of those smaller tutorials um but with the proo on that that comes with all the brushes I got you so on on your uh your gum Rod store can they buy the brushes by themselves not not yet I I do want to uh create that option okay so yeah guys if you guys want that uh just Spam it on Josh's social posts uh give him likes and then uh retweets and stuff and say this man needs to publish his brushes by themselves just bully him into it okay it works every time um okay so we do have some more questions do you do you want to um started on some questions or do are you in a place where you think that you want to keep doing some warm-ups uh we we can do both um I I guess I'll quickly uh describe what I'm doing here this is like another exercise that I think is helpful for like helping you to conceptualize your 2D space that you're drawing on as a three-dimensional space to help you think three-dimensionally just like drawing spheres and then connecting them with uh cylinders and then trying to have them like overlap each other uh it's a good opportunity to practice doing these like T lines uh you know to create a strong sense of overlap and uh Dimension um so this is just an exercise I kind of came up with recently that I I like um so yeah I can uh have them grow uh towards the viewer and then have them re seed back in space and I think it's a a helpful one for for that agreed uh but other than that I think we're ready to to dive into these uh Anatomy studies so okay uh so here in the chat uh a little bit of everything is asking uh what's the agenda for today we just did warm-ups we talked about a sale that's going on uh Josh talked about where you can and cannot find his brushes and now he's going to do some uh what was the exact wording that you said for this one uh F Focus studies Anatomy studies yeah um we're we're using uh reference uh from the proo proo timer.com um and instead of doing a full gesture or full figure drawing uh I know for a lot of people it's kind of overwhelming uh and can be kind of like a daunting task and I I think this is a way that uh makes it a little easier um to analyze specific parts of uh of the body of the human figure and and maybe help you develop a little more confidence in in drawing so so I I know a gesture um when you can tell the proportions are really off and things are not quite jelling together this can be pretty frustrating so I think that's a great exercise for learning Anatomy structure and also developing maybe a little more confidence so we're going to do a series of these uh today okay this sounds good I'm in uh feel free to start in and uh if there's any sort of the kind of uh space to ask questions let me know or I'll just jump in with them sounds great so yeah we're we're going to start on this um Mel torso here and you can see I I usually like to start with uh blocking out the head the head's cropped off so uh the second thing I do is I kind of block out the gesture of the neck usually those sternal ceto mastoid muscles and show how they feed into the the pit uh of the neck uh which is that space in between uh the clavicles and yeah after that I like to block in a rough gesture of of the clavicles and then from there I can kind of uh pull a nice C curve to show kind of the over over all gesture of this torso um and I also like doing these uh kind of half ellipses uh or wrapping lines around kind of the nipple line and then also down at the hips to kind of show me roughly the perspective uh of the Torso and the pelvis um and then from there uh I can just block in kind of the overall mass of the rib cage and just do a rough like Sphere for the pelvis and then I can kind of go in and start breaking things up a bit more is there a thing that that is your favorite to start with like every single time that you have to you have to decide actively not to start with uh uh well usually it is the head okay okay the classic yeah the classic go right for the the most painful uh DET detailed part of the body yeah um I I do that because if you can get the connection the proper connection of the head uh in relationship to the Torso then that's that's a pretty good starting point um if you don't know that the beginning and even if the rest of the figure looks really nice and you can't get the the connection between between the head and the Torso down it looks it's it looks it'll look weird it'll look off and you'll be very very frustrated so I I personally like to make sure that connection of the head to the torsos there uh as a starting point okay that's fair uh man you guys have some good questions here in the chat I appreciate that sometimes people come in with questions and it's just like it's it's just due to questions sometimes people exclusively asking about brushes you know are like how can I draw you know which I mean is a fair question but uh we want something a little bit deeper typically yeah I I had those questions uh when I was a student for sure absolutely me freaking too whenever I think about someone asking like what's that pen I just I I remember myself you know every time that someone else asks this question for them it's possibly the first time they're asking this question to anybody even if it's the 500th time that you are hearing it that day right yeah I I remember um at pyu where I went to school I I had an amazing teacher Ryan Woodward um he has a very uh well established career and uh animation uh he he was an effects artist a storyboard artist and and um he's he's worked a lot on like Marvel films doing animatics and he's amazing and uh of course everyone is like oh how do you hold your con when you're drawing on newsprint like everyone almost felt like that was the most important thing to know is how he prepares his con how he sharpens it how he holds it um but really like all the confidence uh of his drawings just came from years of experience and L pencil mileage and uh from that knowledge of studying anatomy and you know having uh that muscle memory built up but of course yeah when you're starting you're just like oh if I could just hold the tool right or if I just had the right brush you know that that can be part of it down the road but initially the most important thing is really just getting that pencil mileage mhm absolutely yeah I think it it can be it can be daunting to think that you have to have experience to really gain experience uh and gain skill but sometimes that's just what it takes the so many things we take for granted are things that we gained the experience of before we were really cognizant of the thing that we were doing and practicing we basically get like life Mr Miagi into walking speaking and so many other things you know so it's it's a it's an interesting one to then later in life choose to do something new for the first time um are you okay with me asking you some questions now oh of course okay awesome all right so I think the there was one here that I wanted to start with um so person was asking uh what skill level would you recommend your anatomy class to what fundamentals should we have under our belt before attempting to begin your course um you know that's a good question uh every person's going to be different in that regard some some people can just Dive Right In and uh tackle more you know complicated subjects uh others are probably going to be better off uh starting with like the basic Basics uh like just understanding how to draw uh again spheres cylinders boxes uh just basic uh objects you know like drawing an apple or drawing things that are a lot less intimidating the human figure and maybe developing some confidence that way um before you start uh tackling um something as complicated as human figure yeah that's fair um but but I think once you get past that point um this this is definitely I think helpful for a lot of beginner artists intermediate and uh perhaps Advanced too okay that's fair it's good to know um someone here in the chat asked if this is recorded we're answering the questions that are in the chat I don't know I would love to have known these well in advance and have't knocked that out not saying it's a bad question I just I like the that's how good you sound Josh you sound like this is record Ed and practiced and rehearsed he edited out my my hand and wrist shaking and trembling uh I think that there there are a couple people who are asking uh about um I think maybe like the frame rate of your screen capture I think it's it's coming off a little bit lower to them I know yeah it might just be a product of it also being kind of zoomed out so they're not seeing like smaller additions uh but if we do want to try to like um remove the the screen capture and then restart it maybe it'll do something uh so stop sharing screen and then share it yeah yeah uh in the meantime um I appreciate you guys having these questions if you guys can remember to put a q at the beginning of the question it'll just help me see it a little bit better I know there are a couple people who have had good questions that I kind of had to hunt for a little bit um is that any better let me bring it back up can zoom in a little bit and then do some Strokes oh this seems great fantastic yeah it's buttery smooth so crisp so clean thank you okay um all right let's see about some other ones oh actually I was curious so for you uh as a person who I believe would have at some point taken an anatomy course uh was there any particular Anatomy thing that helped you most before becoming the teacher yourself uh it's really a combination of a lot of things I I can't say it's one like any one thing and particular uh I so I I actually started off as a a ceramist oh okay a Potter um I I love working with clay and I I was actually going to school uh with the idea that I'd become a teacher at a university and then I'd sell i' continue I would continue selling my uh Pottery at uh Galleries and and which I did for a little bit uh but then my twin brother uh I am a twin there's another me out there um he's also an artist he's this is a josh Hunter white yeah Yes actually it's Jake ah okay at least it's a Jay though that's good yeah I don't even know there's like a Disney show where there's set of Brothers It's Jake and Josh wait this is Drake and Josh or is it Drake and Josh yeah it's a Nickelodeon they're adopted oh shoot obviously watched it yeah no they were like a half Brothers their parents got together yeah oh okay yeah I I didn't have cable and so uh I tried to internalize all the knowledge about things about the TV shows so I could still talk about it when I did get to with people oh man yeah I I grew up with cable and I I I didn't know oh that's okay it's not a bad thing you spend your time the blade that is your pencil um yeah it was it was Jake that actually introduced me to uh the animation program at BYU nice and um he he was actually in the process of applying to the program there and he had to take a bunch of figure drawing classes and so I I I would occasionally just join him in his figure drawing classes even though I wasn't uh officially signed up for the class and just doing that I was like oh my gosh I love this this is uh this is so much fun and like I I really enjoy drawing with a group of people um and I I think that's where it kind of all started for me uh with with drawing with figure drawing and uh so I I took a lot of figure drawing classes and then I found myself sitting in classes that I wasn't even signed up for just to get extra time in uh and then I I drew a lot of my Sketchbook uh that that was one of the requirements for getting into the animation program is you had to fill out a lot of sketchbooks and all of those things like really helped me build a good foundation of uh of drawing um and then I I started buying books uh on figure drawing like Walt Reed's book uh the figure uh Bridgeman's book books Lumis um Michael Hampton Mike messie you know the kind of the standards uh books that are out there and uh I I studied those I would do pages of copies in my Sketchbook uh those were all things that helped me kind of get this a good start in foundation so anyone who's wondering you know where to start I I would say start with those things okay yeah absolutely did you ever I I mean maybe this is just a me question because you know I'm here at proo I work at proo did you do any of the proo anatomy lessons oh yeah yeah I I loved watching um the the proo YouTube videos and I I learned a lot from that too I'm not trying to force you to say I love proo because I'm on proo followed yeah that's that's 100% genuine um um yeah I I definitely learned a lot with uh with Skelly yeah seeing those like 3D breakdowns was was awesome SK skelly's the big teacher here Stan he's is whatever skelly's the real yeah no last last on least I I agree um okay so yeah let's see there are a couple other questions um we'll do just like a I think one more before or maybe we get back into what you're really doing here um because we're so close to warm-ups uh one person had asked I don't feel any different with or without warm-ups am I doing it wrong what do you think um I I I can sympathize with that sentiment I there are some days where uh I I have that same feeling but um really just depends on on the day uh but I I still think it's good uh at the very least it does help warm up your wrist and and your hand eye coordination you know it it doesn't mean that suddenly like you're going to have more knowledge of the figure like that that's why you're uh going to do the gesture drawings and the anatomy studies um so if you don't have that that knowledge quite yet it's you know it's still going to be uh difficult yeah absolutely yeah I think the warming up is something that you you do to kind of like loosen the mechanism like uh just get it started it's not going to be the thing that you do and then suddenly everything just clicks and you're kicking out masterpieces yeah it's I mean it's just like I I uh I lift weights and I used to go to the gym a lot and I would also warm up um before any workout and didn't necessarily mean that because did my warm-ups that day I was going to suddenly lift more than the previous day but it it did it definitely helped and you know prevented me from getting injured and uh it was it was a good way to to start off yeah I agree um so just as a reminder for here you guys here in the chat uh I'll already have clocked your guys's questions and put them into the little dock here uh typing them more it's not going to do anything except crowd the feed thank you um okay yeah so what do you think is next um I can kind of describe what I'm what I'm doing here so I I am just focusing on the Torso and we can kind of break down what we're looking at uh this this soft line I'm going to switch over to a red line so I can kind of highlight uh different uh landmarks that I'm establishing this here is the thoracic Arch and that's um kind of the base of the rib cage you you can definitely see it um a lot better when the the Torso is when the person's leaning back and the Torso is stretched uh especially the the base of the ribs will kind of poke out here so the thoracic Arch and this is uh something that you definitely want to include in your your gestures and your studies uh getting that um that body line that c curve kind of showing you the gesture overall gesture of the Torso that is very helpful and here we have the the pit of the neck this is the that neck muscle the sternal clom I was talking about earlier um here we have the pectoralis major muscles and and I think that's a good thing to do with these exercises too like maybe after you draw um like a gesture uh or or figure drawing of of that part of the body uh if you're drawing digitally especially you can just you know create another layer uh switch over to like a red or you know a different color um brush and then try to see if you can identify the the muscles that you're looking at M um so here we have those serratus muscles the interlock with the um thoracic portion of the external [Music] oblique and notice those uh those kind of curve towards the the nipple there um and it's kind of parallel to that thoracic Arch uh more or less so that's that's kind of a good guide for finding those um it's almost like interlocking you see it looks like interlocking Fingers um so we can label that real quick so the I talk about this all the time I couldn't remember the name of the serratus for a long time have I talked to you about this Josh per perhaps so I I couldn't I just couldn't make it stick even though it's such a clear thing like you know like a serrated edge of a knife even you know um but oh my gosh I I never thought of it that way oh really okay yeah yeah just think because it's you know it's like a jagged kind of edge like a saw tooth um but no I I would just call them the riblets oh yes yes we did talk about this the how could I forget the riblets yeah it's like it's like the one the one muscle name that I'm just I'm never really going to let stick because I like riblets better that that is much more memorable I think everyone listening would be much better off remembering those muscles as the rets you guys definitely remember serratus guys please but if you go forth calling them riblets I'll be honored uh we do have we do have a Jacob Black here in the chat oh no is no icon and they just said the riblets uh I don't know if that's your J my my twin brother Jak Jacob Black if you are the Jacob Black we're talking about uh his twin brother say something that only Jacob Black would know just remember I'll be seeing you probably later today if it is you uh there was a person earlier who was asking um I I had to find the exact question in here uh because you guys have so many good questions but someone was asking about kind of like a self-critique do you think that going through and outlining the different um things that you have drawn in your study is a good part of self-critique yeah yeah for sure uh I mean do doing this exercise you'll very quickly one thing that I I struggled with especially as an early like concept artist um I especially if I had clothed figures I would sometimes design the figure or Draw it without doing an underlying uh sketch of the of like the construction the overall construction of the figure uh and then drawing on top of that uh so I think this exercise kind of helps remind you to check the construction uh of your sketch and it's a good way uh as said to self-critique um because with this different color you know you can go in and be like oh okay so here's the uh basic well hold on I'm going to pull that down here's the the rib cage here and then I cut in that uh the thoracic Arch I have that midline and then yeah those like shoulder sockets would more or less kind of be an alignment together and so you can kind of check the alignment uh of those joints that you you otherwise uh I mean you can't see it in in the sketch but if you're drawing through like this afterwards you can check to see if those alignments are correct um so yeah I think this is definitely a great exercise to do for self-critique okay uh so just a little update on Jacob Black uh he says Josh gave me the Harry Potter looking scar on my forehead oh my gosh yes that's my brother I did it's true I am I guess I'm Voldemort perfect perfect yeah he'll never let that go I mean you you did wound his body apparently so that's fair yeah and it's his overall like mental health I think uh so um giv me an edge over him yeah yeah it D it's true and uh like he the only problem here is that he like has a look into your mind because of the scar right he he knows you that's right I mean that's that's kind of true uh mul in chat no I not Stan I am Stephen Stan's busy we we had some problems with Skelly this morning Skelly got real upep I don't know if you guys remember but Skelly was in this Netflix series a little while ago and ever since then he's just been the worst such a diva now man um okay we do have uh some more questions in here if you don't have any other landmarks to point out uh just just a couple real quick hit him um yeah I wanted to highlight here we have the external oblique that sits on top of the the Asus and that's you know the love handles um good yeah the the the riblets sit above the love handles yes yes there's there's a little bit of space in between the riblets and the love handles but you know two things that were we're very fond of and then uh I I I I'm trying to accentuate the overlapping forms here um so here there's a nice overlapping form of the rib cage kind of overlapping uh I I think what we're looking at there that would be the erector spin muscles uh but the lower back muscles um but by accentuating that overlap there that's a great way to show depth in your sketch um you you always want to look uh look for those opportunities to show overlap um because that that's what's going to help create uh depth and uh um create a lot more interest in your your drawings yeah agreed agreed I think it's a it's a common one for people not to think of it's something that lends realism yeah for sure and that that's actually probably another good exercise to do if you go back in with a different color is okay what muscle is overlapping what and and try to accentuate like test yourself okay do I know that this arm is overlapping the shoulder yes I do okay I'm going to accentuate that do I know that the shoulder muscle here is uh overlapping that um latissmus dorsi muscle and Al also here I think we're getting uh the Terrace major muscle it it attaches onto the scapula and then it wraps around back onto the uh the front medial side of the humoris um that that's a one of those mystery muscles that I think a lot of people get very confused I did I got confused I didn't know like oh wait I thought the lats were kind of this you know more solid shape but then you see this like little break um and that yeah that's that terce major muscle um and down here here uh so below the uh obliques you have the Asus which is the anterior uh portion of the iliac crest of the pelvis and uh attached to the ELC Crest we have the uh gluteus medius muscles and then you can see the uh tfl the tensor falata and here there's a very obvious protrusion of the great tranter so that's another um very helpful Landmark to establish and then here's another really good overlapping line um you know here in the reference you can't quite see it very well but that uh vastus exterus muscle of the quads overlaps the hamstrings um so there's another opportunity to to get some overlap you can accentuate that yeah absolutely take every chance that you guys can get on that one yes I I yeah hopefully this is uh helpful to see I think so this breakdown I think um hopefully it's something that people like um that they catch the small bits you know even if they don't necessarily have all the anatomy knowledge to really like clock all of the different parts you're talking about remembering to look for the overlaps and everything will stick um it I did put out a poll and I asked how confident are you in your Anatomy knowledge uh in the top place we got people saying they feel okay uh and in the second place I know nothing at 37% uh and last place was 7% for confident so it sounds like maybe you guys could use a course from Josh Hunter black uh Josh has a new Anatomy course that you can find at pro.com joshl uh it's currently 20% off with code summer sale if you guys didn't see the ad at the beginning uh right now there's a summer sale going on that means you guys can get uh this course of Josh's or you can get the proo anatomy course with Stan proo Peno or maybe even Stephen Michael Hampton's way of breaking down the body there's so many different courses that you guys can save money on right now money's hard but it doesn't have to be let us help you save some po.com um so let's see uh do you would you like to take a couple questions yeah yeah for sure all right so we definitely have a bunch uh of courses oh pite in the chat with the Eternal response to when we have a sale don't worry it's not a bad thing that you're saying here they said I need like a 100% summer sale that's the YouTube channel where you are right now if you want to learn how to how to draw paint do anything artwise besides sculpting because we have a separate channel for that uh you're in the right place just subscribe here and we post free lessons from a bunch of the courses whether that's Josh's or anybody else's just subscribe here totally free we got you uh so Sid in the chat was asking if we do character design how much percent is the anatomy important um I I think it's always uh very important it's very helpful uh so that concept of overlap that we just discussed that's that's going to help you uh across the the board with any discipline whether it's illustration character design uh illustration doing figurative work portrait work like knowing enough Anatomy to know what muscles overlap what is is going to um as Stephen said base it in reality even if it is a very stylized character uh even like a flower sack like that's like the first thing you you uh you learn how to animate is a flower sack and one of the reasons for that is it's really easy to see the overlap uh overlapping lines in the flower sack um but when you're doing characters um studying Anatomy will help you know what forms are overlapping what and that'll make it a lot easier for you to create those kind of convincing characters um but definitely the the level of depth and understanding of anatomy uh increases quite a bit if you're doing realistic characters for sure um I guess another one here that I think I'd pair with that one would be do you from uh Hunter once is the name uh do you have a tip on practicing poses from imagination does that require practice from reference what do you think um I I think a a really good good um exercise for that is uh well one drawing from imagination I the there's a a routine that I used to follow I still try to follow it when I can I I try to do like one page of anatomy studies one page of gesture drawings one page and then after that one page of uh Master copies and that can be of like Old Masters or contemporary artists and then I'll do one page of imagination sketches where which is out of my head I put all the reference away everything that I looked at and then as I draw from imagination I I try to recall some of the shorthand techniques I learned from my previous studies and incorporate that into my now imagined drawings from my head and I I think that's a really helpful way to get better at that also uh an exercise I used to do with one of my co-workers at Avalanche um we we used to uh challenge ourselves to look at a reference image for like 3 minutes no drawing you don't even touch your pencil you just look at it analyze it as much as you can knowing that you're going to put that away and then you're going to try to draw it from memory um and that that's I think a very helpful exercise if you're just getting comfortable with the idea of drawing from imagination and and there's some people who just naturally I think are more gifted at drawing out of their head so just keep that in mind um everyone's going to be different there's going to be some people that have uh a greater propensity for drawing um representative work uh figurative work drawing from reference and then there's going to be those artists that like naturally they they can draw from their head a little easier but doing those exercises will kind of help you be good at hopefully all of them uh you know at a a proficient level um but yeah don't get too frustrated if there's other uh St uh fellow students that you are in contact with or that you see that just seem to get it naturally it probably you know means that that is a strength they have but you'll probably have a different strength like we all have our different strengths and weaknesses so absolutely yeah I think that the a big thing that comes up a lot is um people who are doing anatomy courses or figure drawing courses or anything like that um whether it's in you on YouTube or on the actual proo website people talk about not being able to internalize the things or having to like revisit um the actual anatomical or scientific knowledge of something versus just drawing from imagination and some people are better at one thing than the other and some people are just a clean split of both of those things um here in the chat we have rimbert montal of all people uh who came and mentioned I still relearn Anatomy every six months uh or else I forget so even if you do know it's good to get a course to refresh it I agree and if if you can trust anyone about having to uh like how to draw from imagination I think it's rimbert I think it's rimbert yeah I 100% agree I I feel like I'm always a student mhm and I'm constantly having to uh do my studies and uh sketches every day absolutely um but the nice thing is is I love doing it so it's not that big of a chore that's true that's true yeah if anyone here doesn't follow Josh on socials already that's the name that you guys should follow him at uh you can see him actively doing his studies he's doing his his uh his drawing gym workouts every single day and posting them it's wild I did actually notice so like to bring up a different thing here um some people will ask where you find your references and this or that um one thing that you've been posting a lot about is the timer tool on proo so pro.com timer it's 100% free uh it's a Time drawing session uh it's something that you can do really often or just whenever you can um to kind of warm up or to do actual active study there's a bunch of free photos in there and you can set yourself up like really quick sketch kind of sessions longer sessions medium sessions if you need it uh and yeah there's free photo packs or you can use any of the photo packs that you got on proo from other some of the places like graphit uh and other references that we sell and you can just load those all in there like you're doing a live session Patrick here in the chat does them all the time and Josh Hunter black here does them all the time too oh yes yeah and I I think that's one of the biggest things is like if if you really love drawing like all of these things hopefully will be enjoyable to you and I to me that's like one of the biggest um things that kind of separate those who are going to be successful and those who probably won't be successful um is is how much you love doing it um if if you have a passion for it like it almost doesn't matter uh how you approach you're you're just going to dive in you're going to draw as much as you can because you love it yeah but that said there's still going to be a lot of frustrating moments even if you do love it um so that that's natural too having those those moments of frustration where you feel like you're hitting a wall yeah absolutely um I guess I don't know Josh do you want uh do you want to keep with this reference or would you like let's move on yeah I mean don't get me wrong you can you can work away on this one if you so choose I show know if you want to let's move on to uh yeah we can focus on the anatomy of the arm here okay so there's actually there's a fun story for these references with this gentleman uh it's an old proo photo pack uh you can see them in some photos some videos and stuff older bro ones um we still have the weight that the guy used to like to pump before the photos and videos to get them like you know like more vascular more like actually like active muscles oh really yeah so whenever you see whenever you see like um the recordings where people are recording digitally uh where they're not just on like the white backdrop here at proo uh the chances of them those weights just being off to the side from where they are where they're doing digital art it's near 100 % that they're just like right next to them that reminds me of like the making of the movie Predator okay all the actors on that um almost before any shot they would like sneak off to get a pump to get jacked for the next uh uh the next shoot that sounds right yeah because it doesn't just happen naturally if you're just walking around it's not that all your muscles are activated yeah if you have anything important on your schedule will you know just go do a pump yeah go go get pumped and you'll be prepared for whatever it is yeah I think that you know what Josh we make jokes about that but that's great drawing advice regardless of whether you think you're GNA draw anything that day do your warm-ups in the morning get art that's right exactly hashtag get art pumped art pump yeah there we go got patent that can we get some hashtag get our pumps in the chat uh so yeah as you're studying the arm is there anything that you look for in particular as your starting point or anything that you like to make sure that you nail in the beginning oh you know what I'm G to start over so I can uh show uh the process a little better uh so since I'm focusing on the arm I'll start off uh just kind of blocking out the shoulder Mass just the simple Circle and then I'll just get the basic lines of action with this uh pose it's pretty easy um you know you just have these tapered lines that feed into the Fist and then you know you can even just do a little circle for where the the hand would be and that's like a good start uh I think uh just gives you the general idea of uh where everything is and then from there um and start breaking it up more yeah this this guy has massive triceps my gosh yeah yeah look at these yeah I don't think there's any part of his body where I'm like yeah that's actually kind of small except like maybe his ears that's like the only thing and you can't work those out that's you know like I don't think too many people want to enlarge their ears enlarge their ears yeah yeah I would take the the reverse I want to like a I want to do the workout that shrinks my ears please thank you I mean big ears are are aesthetically pleasing as well oh absolutely yeah no I think there's there's a reason that Luffy's got giant ears in one piece they a character trait yes um while you are working on this I think this is a perfect one to bring up right now uh stons is asking do you listen to anything whether it's music background sounds while you're drawing do you listen to like anything uh podcasts music anything like that uh yeah yeah I do I um depending on what I'm working on when I'm doing my studies for sure I'll listen to music I I think this is common for a lot of artists but I I love soundtrack music and like I really enjoy Han Zimmer MH uh as a composer and of course John Williams and James Herer uh kind of the classics uh the nice thing about those is they kind of feel like they have a narrative going um they don't have any lyrics so they're not too distracting um and for me they're nostalgic so I I enjoy listening to that kind of music yeah absolutely I think um a favorite soundtrack for me was the princess monoke soundtrack from studio gbi uh and then I know for Stan the two that he that he does really often are the uh more recent Tron soundtrack from Daft Punk and oh yeah those those are good ones too yeah what do you guys in the chat listen to let us know when I taught um gesture drawing at BYU we would listen to the soundtrack to Tron it's a it's a good one good stuff yeah and even like they they put out the the other Edition later uh that's like even longer intense so what what are you uh what are you hitting in this drawing now uh so so right now I'm kind of uh fleshing out where the areas of overlap are um so the the arm extended here uh the bicep is um stretched so this is more of a straight line and then we can see um on the outside or lateral part of the arm where the tricep is that's forming a little more of a curved line and and then here we have the elbow um peeking out overlapping the flexors on this side again kind of have this straight or a curve here for the the flexors and then here there's that nice straight created by the that bony landmark of the elbow and the uh the humoris and then over here we have the the mass of the ridge muscles and those overlap you can see that there's that obvious overlap uh overlapping the the biceps and here we have the uh the triceps right there again he's got jacked uh tricep muscles so that's that's kind of the Focus right now is getting those uh those overlaps in and here we have the the uh Ona um that bony land mark on the wrist that's the the Ona and then we have it it slopes down um into the uh metacarpal of the of the hand that's another nice thing to uh call out is there's usually kind of that transitional slope from um you know the wrist down into uh the main mass of the hand of the uh metac car PES then I can block in a nice gesture line for the knuckles establish the knuckle line then from there I can kind of grow out the the fingers gesture and block in of the fingers M so in the chat I think this might be something that that will come up in this stage of your drawing uh Sam was asking how do you know what parts of anatomy to accentuate versus what to sort of Fade Out when drawing is it a matter of personal preference uh for me it's just contrast um in what regard well well here that this Ridge muscle I mean there's a lot of contrast right there whereas these extensor muscles there's a grouping of them but uh there's not a lot of contrast there uh that you can see like little slight uh Transitions and the planes there but it's not not noticeable enough to where I'd want to focus on that um so yeah kind of go like where your eye goes really and then focusing again on those areas where there's uh overlap and when you establish those things then you can go back in and flush out um the more subtle details uh if a person didn't nail those in the beginning Jason Ellis was asking uh how do you self- adjust the changes that you need to make when a drawing just doesn't come together um well don't don't feel uh hesitant to erase um and if you're drawing digitally it you can take advantage of the transform tools you know like if I needed to move this muscle or make it bigger or whatever you can use those transform tools um the I think the important thing is that you're you're noticing that it's wrong so I think sometimes it's it's helpful to go ahead and correct it you don't have to think like oh I messed up so it is what it is probably I think it's good to uh do drawings where you edit you erase and you redraw and try to make it right but when you're doing gestures sometimes it's best to just start over and just learn from your mistakes and then draw it again um but I think a balance between those two I I wouldn't just do one or the [Music] other yeah uh so I'm trying to like uh look through a couple questions in here see if anyone's put any new gems in the chat uh Rafa was was asking uh I can easily copy a photo full body body parts draw Anatomy but when it comes to uh drawing my own drawings from memory I suck at Anatomy how do I fix it how can I memorize the body parts was there something that you found helped you or was it just kind of like a repetition with intentional study uh repetition with intentional study and again uh I think as I mentioned before if if you um you do your master copies your gestures your Anatomy studies then you do your drawings out of your head you'll have a little more uh information to draw from literally yeah and uh I I think that's that's a good way to improve on uh drawing uh from imagination um the the nice thing about doing it in that Cadence is uh if you do that over and over again let's say you try to draw the Torso out of your head and you realize oh my gosh I don't know where the rib cage ends take a note of that remember that you that was something you struggled with and then let that uh that be your focus in your next round of studies and then the next time you draw that out of your head you know hopefully uh you can improve on that and you know over time just little by little you'll you'll get better and better as I think the important thing is that you you discipline yourself to really take note of the things you're struggling with and then let those things be the the focus of your your future studies you're not just drawing messing up and going oh man that sucked yeah I think yeah it's don't don't just get discouraged at the thing and don't don't just abandon a piece do that correction like you said I think it's more helpful to do that than just to write something off every time and that's just a good life lesson yes uh the other side the flip side of that is to also know when to just go ahead and abandon something but don't go straight to it you know uh let's see another there was a person in here asking I don't think I have the name written down they're asking would your Anatomy classes help them with anatomy in animation um I think that seems like a hard yes just Anatomy knowledge in general but Josh do you have any particular feelings about this one uh yeah definitely as I said before um understanding the anatomy well enough to know what forms overlap what uh that's that's going to help you a ton in animation uh because a a lot of uh a lot of uh animation you know mentioning the flower sack again the way you create depth and you kind of uh base that flower sack and realism is knowing what areas overlap what and then if you're if you're moving on to to figures with muscles knowing what forms overlap what's definitely going to inform and improve your animation absolutely and it's also the study of uh making things look weighted uh figure drawing is really helpful especially gesture when you're you're trying to learn how to create a figure that looks weighted and planted um because you'll know right away if it's not it'll look off it'll look floaty um so just that that exercise of doing a lot of gesture drawing so you can hopefully improve your figures to make them feel grounded that's going to help you so much in your animation absolutely yeah I think that's that's um one of those things that you can tell when someone really studied their their actual real life um kind of like doing real life studies as opposed to someone who's just making something that feels good in a cartoon sense um something that feels good in a cartoon sense and something that's realistic they can feed into each other but I think you'll be a stronger animator if you start from realism and then uh kind of exaggerate and change things from there yeah I know the um Walt Disney I think he helped train the nine old men the original animators uh I mean they're exceptional in a lot ways already but to to really help them I think especially with uh Snow White yeah they brought in yeah they brought in uh real uh actors and people and animals uh for them to uh to draw from and to study from and that definitely like upgraded and enhanced their uh performance uh with animation absolutely yeah I think I don't know if uh rimbert is still here in the chat but uh there's a video that that we put out recently that had remember talking about some things that were in his Sketchbook and uh one of the things that he was noticing uh or specifically calling calling out in his Sketchbook were the differences between drawing from uh just life drawing like people in the wild and like bus stops and train stations um drawing from imagination and drawing from a person who's just posed for a longer like figure study drawing session uh each of those things have their own benefit benefits and there are different things that you learn from each of them he cited uh catching someone who had their feet posed in a certain way while they were they were sitting that it's not something that you would necessarily assume that a person would do if you didn't observe it in real life and a person who's posing in a drawing session they choose a pose that might not have those same markers those things all inform your drawing from imagination and it's important to get all of those stored in your visual reference Bank uh so yeah where where do you where do you go now from this one do you decide to do any sort of shading in this or do you kind of let uh so that's that's been kind of my problem here as I'm like wondering if I should just move on to the next one because it's more gestural or if I should go ahead and um start rendering this out a little bit I feel like if if I'm speaking for the people in the chat I think usually they just want more visuals don't get me wrong they would love a shading lesson also but they seem gestures are a little more exciting yeah all right well let's move on we can move on to the next one but I I'll hurry and again do that little breakdown sure yeah um again here we have that Ridge muscle that uh overlaps the the bicep here we got the biceps braack ey and here we have the the medial and anterior delts uh [Music] deltoids and that uh tricep tricep muscles and then in between we have the brachialis is that supporting muscle underlying the the biceps like I hope that people out there are just like writing down muscle names furiously right now and then here we can see the uh extensor digitorum it's kind of one of the major um extensor muscles that feeds into a big tendon that spays out into all the fingers um and uh I think it's important to remember that the elbows actually formed by um the the Ona um latching onto the base of the the humoris and that's called the elron Furious writing yeah terrible Furious I'm not saying for your writing I say for the people on the other end they're like actively writing down the names of muscles right now yeah I'm sorry my my handwriting is a and then this Mass here uh is the the flexor group of the forearm so flexers and then um on the top side those are the extensors for just to simplify it down um yeah on the back here we can see the the lats um all right I think we can move on to the next one nice yeah I think just doing that that breakdown is is definitely helpful if you're trying to learn the anatomy and wanting to test yourself absolutely yeah I think like it you you lock it in in like three different ways with that practice during the drawing then identifying afterwards and doing the names like it's it's a fantastic process uh just real quick I did want to take a moment there's a person here in the chat Keith who was asking how does Josh's course differ from other proo Anatomy courses such as the stamp bro ones um so Josh's course is fantastic first and foremost I don't want anything that I say here to sound like I'm saying that one is better than the other they're different if you like what Josh is doing here you're probably gonna like Josh's course and you should get it it's on sale right now for 20% off use code summer sale um but uh one one thing that is different about these two is that the um STS course has 3D models that you can interact with some eBooks and some other things like that and I think it's it's really long and really dense depending on the flavor of anatomy that you're looking for one is going to be a profoundly technical long long long thing uh Josh's I think is approachable in a way that still carries just copious amounts of information um some more I get I would say like fully fully rendered kind of pieces versus something where in um stance course things are rendered but it's not going to be what a lot of people are looking for in rendering you know um I don't know Josh is there anything in particular that you want to highlight that's in your course uh yeah I think there's uh there's a pretty big emphasis on uh on gesture um in my courses uh it's definitely more uh of a linear approach um and I know in uh in stands is that that's true as well but there's a lot more on rendering um so if you're looking more for uh a linear approach uh to figure drawing I think that's mine definitely focuses more on that yeah both both are very good courses there's absolutely nothing bad in either of these um you can watch some of the free videos from both of these courses so for Josh's we have uh this stream a previous stream that we did with them and I believe there's a free video as well um that you can watch here on the YouTube channel and you can kind of see if that teaching style work works for you and if it's the the approach to Anatomy that you want or need versus the other ones that you can see also for free on the channel it's up to you because like while we can say what is and isn't in either of these courses you're gonna know the best you know no matter what though both of them are on sale right now for 20% off on pro.com because there's a summer sale baby yeah uh so for Josh's course you can find that uh at proko.com Josh Black uh for the proo anatomy course STS older course you can get that pro.com Anatomy if so many things on screen right now Josh look at all this now they're gone uh yeah thank you for asking that question though I appreciate it so I talked through all of your setup for this one oh I am so sorry no no it's it's totally fine I can we'll just uh start over on this one um to talk to but uh just adding on to uh what Stephen was saying there I I personally think it's really helpful to have multiple teachers that you're learning from uh one thing that helped me when I when I was a student I was always kind of doubting like oh is this the right instructor like I I want to make sure I picked the right one but actually that I think was kind of a hindrance uh because I found that the more uh artist I learned from uh it made it easier for me to realize what was important to internalize in my head uh because if I studied from Lumis and Bridgeman and Walt Reed and all these different artists and realized hey they're all covering these different all of these same things but in different ways like oh then that means those things are important for me to remember and so therefore it's easier for me to remember it and and really put uh stock into uh those principles that they're teaching and realize that they're Universal and I think that's one of the benefits of learning from various artist and not just one absolutely yeah imagine if you only learned the things that one of your parents knew like I I don't know about you guys but if I only learned the things that my dad knew I would know nothing right now take the knowledge of multiple people so yeah so you're starting on a new pose here yeah and and here I'm uh I'm taking advantage of the fact we're drawing digitally I'm in Photoshop I'm using the Symmetry tool um and that you can find that just up here in the toolbar there's this little butterfly icon and you click on that and you can select horizontal vertical and bunch of other options but uh I'm just doing vertical um and I think this is helpful uh this is a helpful skill to learn especially if you're a character designer if you're a concept artist you're going to do a lot of uh turn uh character sheets where you do a full like orthos turnaround of the character you'll do a front view profile back view three quarter um so knowing how to use a symmetry Tool uh especially just to start your uh like front and back views is very very helpful um so it's nice to practice that even with with your uh uh anatomy and figure drawing studies absolutely uh Brandon actually asked a good question here um it's a really fresh one sorry to everyone else who already had questions in uh on a straight ahead and symmetrical pose like this what would the general line of action of this pose be uh well you'd have that line that' go right oh right down the middle that uh torso line you know if if if if uh if this torso is tilted you'd see that c curve um so that would be one of the main gesture lines and then I would say uh establishing the shoulder line would be very important um establishing kind of that tilt the nipple line and again I'm using this wrapping line to kind of show the perspective and tilt of the rib cage and doing the same thing for the pelvis uh I know the pelvis is going to be uh tilted in the other direction um since he's kind of leaning back so establishing those those things I think is very uh a good way to start when you're drawing the front view I'm gonna ask a question here uh in the chat I'm asking in one word one word uh what do you think is your weakness in in anatomy drawing or anatomical drawing I'm curious just make it one word don't give me so many words goof Bob in the chat in the mean time asks does he draw with a mouse or a pen I am definitely drawing with a a stylus pen I I could not do this with the mouse that would be pretty impressive I mean I think you could do it I think I could probably just be like a performance artist and just show me doing these sketches with a mouse and witness me it'd be a spectacle to see I do there's a there's an animator bahi JD who works in anime uh and he he posts every once in a while like every like two years that he's still using the same little like this big wcom fun tablet like this the drawing area is like this big it's nuts and the guy's animating like actual one piece and other big animation episodes it's insane oh my gosh the the tools they don't have to be anything wild no no it's uh again the biggest thing is is really just that pencil mileage MH and uh gaining that comfort with um drawing with that tool over and over and over again uh I'm gonna go rapid fire through the things that people said in their one word that's hard for them and I'm gonna skip over all of the people who put a bunch of words it was such a simple assignment guys uh so poses proportion Anatomy confidence which is a very good one thank you for bringing that up Jesse uh face legs form neck legs everything uh definition rib cage very good it's it combined into one I'm gonna count it um proportions proportions hands uh gesture armpit yeah yeah perspective torso okay I think we got a good one uh Bob here says Expressions I don't know if that's necessarily an anatomy one which I would also point out uh there's another person who put a thing up here and they put facial Anatomy okay yeah we could uh maybe tackle a face after this yeah so what what do you think are the key markers that you look for in this pose obviously the center line um placing the nipple line like you had mentioned earlier but now that you're getting down from moving um or from drawing at the largest objects what are you getting down to for the smaller things um okay so yeah the shoulder line the nipple line uh the tilt of the pelvis [Music] um and finding that thoracic Arch uh the base of the rib cage um finding the the pit of the arms usually it's the base of the the biceps mhm that's a nice one to to block in and usually that will line up um more or less with uh the base of the rib cage uh that midpoint of the arm the elbows will usually line up with uh the base of the rib cage so that that's a nice kind of um thing to look out for uh because if you if you make it longer or shorter shorter than the rib cage it's it's going to look AES probably um especially if it's more realistic and then the base of the wrist this is kind of like the V truvian man it's making it really easy to do these kind of radial grid lines you know um but the the base of the wrist um should line up if I were to put them in a giant circle like the in the base of the wrist should kind of line up with the base of the crotch and then and then you'll have the hands um so when you're drawing the the front of the Torso kind of getting those proportions and landmarks lined up is really important I would say okay it's good to know I think when you're uh blocking in the the deltoids I find that it's helpful to kind of use Straits uh initially to block that in and then you can kind of finesse it with some curves absolutely usually the um the basic shape of the deltoids will kind of be like this almost half head shape they'll have those like three sides but again then you can go back in and smooth it out uh another nice Landmark is these little uh furrows in between the deltoids and the pecs uh that's called the infraclavicular fossa and you can also use that to do like a little gesture line mhm to make sure uh the construction of the chest is um symmetrical and you know in perspective I'm gonna have to take off the Symmetry tool here to mark that before you like when you go to do this a person in the chat I was actually going to explain to them in text but they were asking how do I make how do I get the Symmetry like they're doing where in the screen is is that for you again um so you can see the full screen it's it's up here on the toolbar MH uh see that little butterfly icon right there that's the Symmetry tool you just click on that and you have all these options vertical horizontal and a bunch of different options I I usually just stick with vertical and horizontal and right now we're using vertical if any of you guys are looking for references like Josh is using here on the screen today you can find some free ones in the proo timer tool totally totally free thing to have just got to have a proo account which is also free uh so pro.com timer uh there's a bunch more things that are built into that but there's a bunch of free reference that's in there you can get into more nitty-gritty things things you can find out about on the page it looks like he was uh he was working out he was doing some lifts and he was like I hate this bar bent it up yeah we should maybe we should have him doing he's working out his uh his upper packs he's using the cable machine just put those in there I think honestly so if you can put something into the action that you're that you're drawing and have it read as believable like that then I think that you know that the motion that you put into it reads well like it looks like he's actually have like straining against something yeah we know that he was getting a pump just before this pose probably probably doing that very exercise it's true um there's actually there's a question that's come up a couple different times throughout the stream here uh and it's about your canvas and the DPI that you work at um so the real demon was asking this time or Daman um how big of a canvas do you use what's your and what is your DPI um so I I'm probably uh unique in this regard I I like to have a big canvas of 10,000 pixels by 7,000 pixels okay okay and uh DPI of 150 okay um I I find that just allows me to get that really nice smooth buttery line and I can kind of zoom in and do detail and not worry about um the resolution you know getting choppy and having like anti-aliasing showing up in the the line or stepping that's my personal preference I I know that's probably too big for for most people yeah I I got you yeah so for that one I think oftentimes people will go with something that's like you know like a 11 by 17 or us paper size and then just 300 DPI so everyone's different and a lot of that will be something that's different based on your purpose for the uh the thing that you're drawing if you're making something that's for client work this will be different um than if you're just making something for you so uh Fino in the chat is saying I'm afraid to not use 300 DPI that's fair me too um so at a certain point I think it's nice to uh get some asymmetry in the drawing so you know when you get everything established you can take off the Symmetry tool oops turned it back on symmetry off um and now I can kind of go back in and get some of that as [Music] symmetry like having that uh asymmetry and variation from side to side definitely helps add more interest you're [Music] drawing so I I would say just use the Symmetry Tool uh as a way to get started and then turn it off and start adding those um that [Music] variation now is there anything that you think would that is most needing attention to add some as into uh of course the lighting okay that one definitely big one you don't uh usually you don't want to do lighting um with the Symmetry tool unless the light is a like directly in front uh above uh what what axis would that be which is also this is actually a complicated one because depending on what program you use it'll choose a different axis uh as a like a different marker it's it's wild yeah adding that uh that Lighting in there these uh core shadows and cash Shadows it's the light is coming from the left so that immediately adds some symmetry in your sketch yeah absolutely yeah otherwise like you're were saying like if you if you put the light if it's if it's asymmetrical or if it's symmetrical lighting then it'll go around and it implies the light is coming from above yep uh Merill K said in the chat we need more brushes from artists available for other programs in Photoshop I got good news for you we had we got confirmation during this stream that Jos brushes while developed in Photoshop for Photoshop work beautifully in a couple other programs at least so to me that implies that they work with probably all of them there's some hypers specific things for each different brush engine um that some people can and can't take take advantage of because they're not built into those brushes but you can usually load the majority of brushes with an asterisk uh into most programs uh or with a dollar sign in the chat asks is there a better option between pencil and paper and digital to learn Anatomy or is it down to personal preference uh I would say personal preference um but I I think if you're going to go in the the industry of uh especially concept art um or animation I I think well especially concept art uh I would definitely do both uh I would if you like drawing traditionally draw traditionally but also train yourself uh how to draw digitally um because the industry standard usually is Photoshop um or I guess procreate a lot of people draw with procreate yeah I think those are the two Front Runners right now yeah and the reason for that is you can iterate very very quickly um you uh you'll show you'll have an art director that'll look at your work and be like oh I want to change this color I want to change that and with when you're doing it digitally you know you can change the colors very very quickly you can uh change the size of things using the transform tools um or you can create duplicates if you're like doing costume design for example and then you just draw over the same figure over and over again and that's so much easier to do digitally um so I would say if that's the case I would definitely do both uh but I I do both I I like to draw Trad traditionally and digitally um one thing that I found uh helpful for me to um when doing my traditional sketches I like to use a ballpoint pen um because to me that feels the most uh similar to drawing with a stylus on a tablet and so I feel like that those skills are very much are very transferable uh when you're drawing digitally uh whereas if you were to draw traditionally with charcoal or con it's it's kind of a different Beast because you're drawing with the side of it and it's going to feel very different uh the principles that you're learning are the same they're Universal but as far as like getting a custom drawing digitally I think drawing with like a ballpoint pen uh I even find drawing with a mechanical pencil is is nice too because you have that really fine tip MH um yeah that's that's just something I like to do uh that I I recommend I cosign everything you said there yeah it'll it'll just come down to the strengths and weaknesses of each of those mediums and what you're looking for out of them um I guess you know what fine let's bring it up where where's that person again Captain you asked earlier we're talking about traditional drawing tools Captain is asking would you recommend dip pens dip pens uhhuh who I can't say I have much experience with those oh okay now I know what to get you for Christmas yeah no I think uh they're fantastic I love I I love anything like nibs glass pens uh they're they just feel good they feel good they feel different there's some more tooth some more bit um and every single one of them is different with different behaviors so I think uh go for it especially if you're a person who has the patience to go and dip up him uh that's going to be the main deciding factor some people they're going to get mad that it doesn't just draw forever like something that has like an ink cartridge or something like that in it so yeah I'll have to give that shot dud they're really fun uh we do have a bunch of them here we got a bunch of them sent to us as part of doing our our Marvel course recently br.com Marvel um and so may maybe we can send some of these your way I think that would be a fun one yeah I love it yeah um oh oh so um pite here in the chat also asked a really good question um so let me see if I can bring this up yes so they were asking uh how much percentage can people save on the course right now uh you can save 20% off right now pro.com store uh because right now we have a summer sale going thank you so much for that setup pite yeah everything on the website besides like the the proo skull the physical product um is going to be 20% off uh and if you guys buy multiple courses so say you buy all the anatomy courses at one time Josh's Anatomy course Dan's Anatomy course Steph Michael Hampton's Anatomy course maybe a Mike Mat thing in there for good measure you guys can also get a greater percentage off if you bundle things but you'll see that in the chat if you add more than one thing into your card but you can save 20% off on anything you buy right now go do it thank you guys H I appreciate you guys very much for that one that was good uh so Josh what what do you think uh we're an hour and 41 into it right now how do you feel about using the last like 20 minutes here to do a facial oh yeah yeah for sure let's do it all right uh I'll just put this on one layer uh oops so so again starting off um I think finding the the gesture of the neck as it feels feeds into that Center Line mhm find the center line then find the shoulder line than the the gesture of the hips one thing that's nice to remember the shoulder line usually is going to be more of a straight and then that line of the hip can be more of a curve and already that adds a nice design to your to your drawing um whenever you going to have Straits uh being contrasted by curves it really does enhance the the design of whatever it is you're sketching um then yeah blocking out the mass of the rib cage and finding that thoracic Arch and the obliques um and I I wanted to point this out too uh this is a mistake I made a lot uh sometimes i' the legs like growing right out of the base of like right underneath the obliques which is obviously wrong it's very wrong that there's a you know that gap for the the the pelvis and you have that glutitis uh medius the tfl and then you have the the leg that comes out of that so there's that space between the base of the external oblique and where the leg starts um anyway we can move on to the to the face I just wanted to kind of go over those oh no absolutely I think like you said that it's it's important to go over them afterwards that's the point of the studies I just want to interrupt you in there hide that and see here we go nice this a good one yeah this will be a fun one to do so I got like 10 minutes to do this this up to you uh this this can be a lightning round one or we can run over a little bit this is on your time you know you're the one you're the one with the kids the concept art job everything else yeah maybe 15 minutes we'll wrap it up I probably have to grab lunch after this and then we have our a company play test which uh we have every day I always look forward to it nice uh well yeah feel free to talk about your process during this one then I won't bring up any other questions for you all right um so to to start I just uh Block in a soft uh Circle to kind of block out the mass of the the Cranium it's it's really very similar uh the Luma approach and then I'll want to do an lips to kind of establish the side uh of the skull since this is a three4 perspective and from there I can kind of block out um the eyebrows uh the eyebrow line the ey line and I can now block out the gesture of the the jawline and I'm going in uh with a very soft line so just as a lay in so I can go back with a more confident lines later just blocking out the gesture of the neck if if you're really taking your time with a a portrait and you're going for a likeness um you want to go over the basic construction but you constantly constantly want to be looking at the alignment of things um especially vertical alignments I find uh can be the most [Music] difficult one thing I always uh struggled with and sometimes still do struggle with is getting the the length of the nose correct I feel like a lot of times I'll feel pretty good about the sketch and then I zoom out and I'm like oh crap I drew the nose too long and it's it's pretty obvious when you're looking at like that alignment or the space in between the top of the nostril and where the tearduct is and then you can kind of see the the base of the um orbit of the skull like right there on the cheek and then that's the area that I always seem to make longer than it should be so yeah you constantly want to be double-checking your uh measurements and alignments absolutely especially in the beginning it it's much easier to get those things nailed in the beginning than to have to go back and revisit them later oh yeah um I'm just going to get that tline of the face and I'm going to find the hairline uh so yeah when you're doing this basic uh construction um unless the it's like a very Force perspective pretty much all the facial features are going to be parallel to one another um so you want to make sure all those lines are kind of uh lining up that they're parallel and in this uh case it looks like that's true so just looking at this seeing that everything is parallel I'm I'm in a decent spot uh construction wise that's not going to be too off you know the the worst thing is if you you get the you're not paying attention you get the um the eyebrow line and then put in your eyeline and that's you know just a little bit off or then you put in your and then that's maybe you know little skampas and you know that's why you want to make sure that all that base uh basic construction is established first so everything's correctly aligned then that way you're not going to have you know a droopy eye or you know something like that at least unintentionally if that's in your reference go for it yeah sometimes you want that and that's okay too but if you don't want it you know it's it's nice to uh spend the extra time to get those alignments correct um when I when I'm approaching the hair I I like to break it down into straights I'm doing these portraits uh her hair is awesome it's a very graphic shape so it's it's really easy for me to kind of establish it shape just blocking it out with Straits yeah I think uh starting with uh Straits for your block in is something that I think a lot of people don't necessarily think about if they're not a little bit more experienced they want to try to get everything in and have this really gratifying experience of having gotten everything in the first go but blocking in your overall Mass with some simple lines beforehand is going to do so much for you you can spot with this like bird's eye view where your proportional um where your movement uh and other other important factors um where those have gone wrong so do a quick Block in don't make it harden yourself yeah and even when you're you're blocking out the individual features you know it's a good thing to have a similar approach again you're kind of checking that everything is um symmetrical and uh lined up and uh one thing that's helpful when you're blocking out the neck um because one of the most important things that you don't want to get wrong is uh how the neck is attached to the head so you can have this beautifully rendered face and then you know if you have the neck it's too thick or you know that alignment's off so I'm going to use this the nostril uh and also I I I can see that that this side of the neck feeds up into the corner of the eye and then I can also see that it somewhat lines up with the that nostril there um so it looks like I'm in a good spot so kind of using those different areas of uh comparison is is very helpful when you're doing portraits yeah absolutely do you think uh so is there anything in portraiture that you think is the hardest thing uh or a thing that is the most fun for you whichever you prefer to talk about more maybe you don't want to talk about the big weakness because then we go look at everything you've drawn just before I draw it yeah like yep he's right that's what it is uh I I would say eyes I mean eyes are always tricky uh but at the same time they're the most uh satisfying when you get them right um because that really brings your your portrait to life uh yeah you want to make sure that's and and with the eyes being as hard as they are you want to make sure you're helping yourself out as much as you can by doing a a strong um underlying sketch uh Travis Anderson here in the chat asked is this the lumus method How would you feel about this compared to uh traditional Lumis method oh yes very very much um I would say a hybrid uh with a heavy influence from uh Lumis yeah there's definitely some uh some big similarities here to a traditional lumus method but I think we we're also in a space now where I think we've uh we shown that combining methods is often the strong like the the most strong option you know it's like a a purebred Dalmatian has so many health problems but if you just get a little bit of mut in there they're so strong and they look like Dalmations yeah you want to have your your Voltron effect yeah everything comes together and creates this awesome unbeatable machine yeah I just watched Planet of the Apes recently the new one uh and so I really wanted to say Apes together strong but maybe it's one too many pop culture references for one metaphor you already got no that's that's a beautiful one I I just watched that too that's a great line dude I was I was shocked they did such a good job with that one it I love the old Planet of the Apes movies the older ones from the 60s and 70s um and I I even enjoyed the more recent ones this one stands on it own I think it's a great jumping jumping off point for people has great visual effects good storytelling and speaking of anatomy oh boy do they do a good job of of moving the movements over from people's uh performance capture over into the AP bodies so this is the one that's uh still in theaters yeah yeah I no I haven't seen that one yet oh okay okay I rewatched the the previous is it films yeah yeah then what oh we just we just did the the zoom call thing oh no oh you you go ahead I uh I I think I lost it you but you know what it us getting derailed in talking about the Planet of the Apes movie during the art stream it's probably not a bad thing you would have talk proc that you're doing now oh yeah so I I think once I get uh that basic construction established uh now I can really focus on kind of the shapes that I'm looking at uh breaking it up into shape patterns and uh again that's why it's so important that you really focus on those vertical and horizontal alignments um oh my gosh right now I can already tell my don't don't don't tell them they won't know don't tell them the the nose is too small um so I'm gonna go ahead and I'd say one of my weaknesses is uh drawing live in front of people is oh there's nobody here Josh it's just you and me times a slight struggle yeah working on that yeah this is this isn't recorded or people can view it later nothing like that you're oh thank goodness I was sweating bullets uh if if you guys do like what you're seeing here with Josh obviously this is a live one um but the the teaching that gets that gets done during these live streams is a little bit like longer drawn out not as focused but if you like anything ATT happening here you can get a more concise more boiled down uh succinct version of this and rewatch it as many times as you want Josh's course can be found over at pro.com jblack and right now it's 20% off during our summer sale uh if you guys do want Josh's course you should pick it up it's the best time to do it it's cheaper it's better than all the other courses I I think Josh would agree on that one Josh likes this course the best oh yeah for sure not biased at all yeah in no way shape or form um but yeah no I think it's a very good course um people have really been responding to it and I think it's because of the actual quality of the materials that are in there uh as you can tell in here Josh is an attentive uh he's an attentive teacher I think he's very responsive uh and as he was producing the videos in that course he was taking the community feedback uh and adjusting the course and the way that he presented it as he made it which I think was it was instrumental in making the course as good as it is so you guys should go check it out pite in the chat said I just put Josh's course in the proo shopping cart uh so that's all the promotion paying off thank you you guys don't have to buy you can just watch these free lessons but if you do find yourself having a few dollars that you can spare for this one Josh of course is a good one uh we will also have more more streams uh through the this whole next month uh with a few more instructors I think a couple of those are still getting like locked in um but I know that Steven Balman is doing one um I'm trying to think of who else is definitely guaranteed for one I don't want to say anything until uh they're actually announced but I believe Stephen bomman is good he's just traveling the world right now so he's a busy guy but when he's back we'll be doing a live stream uh is there anything that you want to call out in where you're drawing is right now um yeah I mean you just notice I'm I'm being very careful um with the construction and lining everything up I'm not uh I'm just slowly building it up uh just to make sure things are where they should [Music] be and yeah sometimes the further along you get the more you can see things are off so yeah so you you'll definitely make you know Corrections especially when you're doing portraits yeah I think that there are few things that um are talked about people looking at first when they look at a picture or say like a YouTube thumbnail um those things are often uh the face the eyes the hands and those are often the things that you hear people have hardest time actually drawing and I think it's because we look at those things so often for so many cues that we know the intricacies of those things so we expect a certain thing from them that's how we can tell when they're so wrong you know AI doesn't look at faces and hands it does it's getting better at them but billions and billions of images yeah second yeah but no it's it's just something that I think that we notice because of our experience with those things yeah there was a I think it was fangu one of his podcasts he talks about that very thing um he he has one podcast where he's trying to make uh learning for beginners very approachable and trying to create a hierarchy of what's easy in what's hard and it's similar to what you're were saying like obviously like the the human face is the hardest because it's something we look at all the time and the human body you know even gestures you can tell right away if something's off um and then I I think like the easiest uh thing to approach was just like uh architecture and like organic trees and rock formations he was like suggesting like that's a good place to start drawing those things uh because we're not as familiar with that so if you make a mistake you're not going to notice right away that's a good way to kind of build up the confidence and then yeah I thought that was a cool episode yeah no it's a good way to approach this one um so uh Ramo in the chat asked for the uh for those that uh for those that English is their second language can you explain what you mean when you say blocking in blocking out so blocking in what is a block in Josh um a a block in like right now it's just starting from it essentially it's just going from very very basic to uh very basic shapes to complicated shapes um it's like if you were to uh approach like building this out of clay you know you you just start off with a like a block of clay um and you would kind of if you're doing like a sub a subtractive method then you start cutting out like the the eyes to get the alignment of the eyes and then you do little indicators where the nose and you don't just go right in and start flushing out the eye uh or the nose you make sure that the overall construction of everything is is lining up together and feeling solid and then you you go in uh later with more confidence to to do the details so it's going from simple to specific uh to complicated I guess that was a very succinct breakdown of a block in I appreciate that yeah if you want to build on that I no honestly I think you nailed everything there yeah I think the only thing that you could possibly do is to point out that during your block in here you're sticking to using straight lines uh they're just less complicated to First lay in if you guys haven't ever heard of it a lot of times people will use the um CS eye lines to for initial construction to keep it nice and simple in the beginning rather than trying to like nail in all these like Contours for Stuff um if you just keep make lines that are like shaped like C's little s's for some curves and then eyes that's pretty much all the lines you need for your first sketch and block in yeah I that's definitely true what I'm doing um portraits and yeah and then towards the end you can kind of get the excitement of those curves you know to give it a little more like energy and contrast and you know like with her hair and just do like these little squigglies for to add some of that excitement that's kind of later like that's more of the icing on the cake kind of thing yeah I was gonna say like it's it's very much that it's the reward for having nailed your construction you get to start doing the other stuff yeah you can't you can't uh eat just icing don't get me wrong you can it's just bad for [Laughter] you um let's see here I do want to call out so and for people who are watching you do this right now I think that a lot of them might enjoy in um uh like I'm trying to think of how exactly to phrase this there's a thing that you do in your breakdowns where you don't just necessarily do this rough Anatomy sketch that has no rendering to it or anything like that you throw in some indications for shadow for plane changes and I think you choose really like visually appealing ones that drive an artistic representation of the reference do you is there anything that really drives when you choose to place the Shadows or do you think that you just do them as a natural product of laying things in uh laying things in honestly like once I get the basic alignments of things I'm almost using anything after that point as a point of uh comparison uh just to delineate the shapes that I'm looking at and so I'm using the anatomy I'm using the core Shadows the cast Shadows uh the lit shapes Shadow shapes I'm using everything to put together this puzzle to make sure that all the pieces are lining up together um so at a certain point I'm kind of like going back and forth between the lighting to construction [Music] um but I I would say with lighting usually I just start with a very uh kind of graphic approach where I will first establish like uh the core shadows and cash Shadows um so here on her face uh there's you know more vious cash Shadow here below the lips this is c can you zoom in a little bit oh yeah yeah thank you so much sorry oh you're good um obviously this one on the base of her neck is probably the most obvious of the cash Shadows uh in this reference uh your cash Shadows usually are going to be um The Sharper uh crisper edges it's just going to be like a thin line that's how I usually uh illustrate the cast Shadows like even here uh this cast shadow of her eyelashes um that are uh casting on uh her cheekbone here you know I could just do some graphic lines to indicate that cast Shadow and then that will feed into the core shadow um that I'm seeing here on the side of cheekbone that's definitely a softer thicker line MH um I think do do you do you go straight into giving things that harder or softer line when you lay them in or do you just kind of like indicate them with a really light line and then revisit them um it really depends uh I'll I'll kind of do both um I think typically I'll I'll uh establish the graphic uh shapes uh of the Shadow shapes and light shapes just doing very simple you know uh cast Shadows like this and then I don't really worry too much about the thickness of the core Shadows I almost do this like soft line just to show me where they're where where they're at kind to establish them and then I'll go back in and be like oh okay this core Shadow here is actually thicker so I'm going to build on that but I start off with kind of more graphic approach okay when I'm finding the cash shadows and core Shadows that's good to know I appreciate it all right so people in the chat will not stop asking one question you guys know who you are it's like three different variations of the same question uh so they really want to know how to become a concept artist how to become a concept artist yeah Josh how can they take your job uh you know I actually gotta go take my CS up oh I'm just kidding um again the the most important thing is that you actually have a passion for it like like first decide I actually enjoy creating characters and uh creating props and vehicles and uh doing environments um so I think that's the first thing and and then probably the second thing would be deciding like what uh what Studios you would like to work at do you think people should tailor their work to that uh I I think so if that's the route you want to go um that's probably the the fastest way like if if you wanted to get into Riot or you want to get into blizzard you know you look at their Styles and be like yeah I really love this style and I'd like to to paint like this draw like this design like this then you know kind of push your uh studies in that direction um that doesn't mean you're not going to have your own style but that's probably the fastest way um to prove to those Studios like hey I can do your style that you're needing for this project um showing versatility is a good thing because with especially with bigger companies uh a lot of times they'll do various uh Styles and you know uh with their different projects that they're doing and if you can show that you're versatile that's very helpful and that versatility honestly comes from the F fundamentals if you understand the fundamentals really well then you can apply that to any style yeah and and that's why like learning these uh like learning figure drawing learning basic lighting and construction that's going to help you you know regardless of the style do you think that do you think that there's a path to start working at a studio in a job that's say like storyboarding or something like that and then moving into concept art or do you think that a person should exclusively try to tailor themselves towards one position um I I knew of a lot of concept artists that started in different disciplines M uh yeah like uh my I don't know if I should name drop or not do you like them are they cool oh yeah yeah yeah okay then you can make well I think a good example um a concept artist that I worked with uh quite a bit and I learned a lot from him uh Sam Nelson okay he's he's an amazing digital painter and concept artist and he actually started off I think doing animation okay and and then he did some uh modeling 3D modeling and texturing and uh then he finally proved himself to the art director that he could do concept art and he became really good at it so there's not a one-size fits-all there's there's a lot of different routes um and and sometimes those people that uh don't go directly into it and they they do other disciplines and then they become a concept artist they they're bringing a lot of experience uh uh to to that position that maybe other concept artists won won't have [Music] so uh my my experience I started as an intern okay I got picked up when uh I was at Buu uh I was a student and uh you know I was fortunate that way and then that transitioned into full-time and that that's how I got my my start um so I would say there's a lot of different approaches um but from what I can see I I think the most important thing is uh again one you've established that you love doing it because that's that's going to be the fuel that gets you there um and then deciding you know what kind of projects you'd want to work on and uh and really be honest with yourself don't let other people's opinions kind of shape where you end up going or what you aim for I think that's sometimes a mistake that a lot of beginner artists make is they feel that pressure to please other artists and people so much that they're like oh right I need to go to Pixar that's the only option like if I don't make it to Pixar I'm a failure yeah it's not it's not the end of the world if you're not there you you don't get to go to goblins or anything like that it's fine yeah it's it's totally fine and uh there's there's so many like Indie Studios out there there's you know of course there's the big studios um and there's lots of different paths I think the most important thing is that you take advantage of any opportunity you have to do what you love and to learn from other artists and [Music] um yeah sometimes that means taking taking a position that maybe isn't like your dream job right away but it's something you can learn from and grow into and then use that as kind of a spring board into you know being a a character designer or uh you know a senior concept artist or whatever yeah absolutely I think even even while you're in school like you were mentioning you don't necessarily have to just go to classes that are with your course of study everything that you do leads you into the opportunity to do more and expand things just always be a student always learn and take take opportunities when they come up as long as they don't put you out and make you have zero sleep uh try other things and eventually you'll you'll find your way into doing something that you like more or find your way back to doing something that you like doing more when life situations change sometimes it's okay uh Josh is there anything that you want to really uh bring up here in this or do you think this is uh about done for now uh I I think we're probably we're probably good okay I mean obviously we we could go a while longer on this portrait but I don't want to take up too much of people's time and I need to get back to my job it's it's that one that second one no they'll have you here forever um Josh is there there was a there was a a sale that was going on right now do you remember how much that was that people could get off right now you know it was 20% off yeah it is last time I checked 20% off yeah it's 20% off right now across the website with code summer sale um you guys can find Josh's course at pro.com Josh Black uh you guys can also get that 20% off of anything else that you find on the website uh it's um it's a really good sale it's the best sale that we have of this year but you don't have to just buy things it's totally okay to be a person using proo not having purchased anything uh you can go over to pro.com free and get a whole selection of free lessons from a bunch of the courses that we have on the website that's entirely free you don't have to pay for anything a proo account is free you don't even have to emails that remind you that proo exists you can turn off email notifications uh you can also use the proo timer tool it's pro.com timer that's free references for you to draw from It's Time sessions five minutes one minute 10 minutes an hour it's up to you how long you want to use any of those references for uh if you are a person who's bought reference packs before from different Studios like Studio graphy or anything like that that we have on the website you can load those into that timer too you don't just have to use the free stuff um but for anyone else who doesn't want to buy anything subscribe here on the channel I never say to subscribe I'm just realizing it's like the first time I've ever done that during one of these um but yeah you subscribe to the channel uh you can get a bunch of free lessons it's a good time Josh thank you for being here oh thanks for having me that was fun yeah I appreciate it and for everyone who who's here in the chat I appreciate you guys for being here too if you're not on proo come hang out you can see all of the people who are in here uh hopefully at least Patrick will be there I'm there every once in a while you can get free critiques on the work that you do it's great I hope that you all have a good rest of your day travel safely be well do your stretches and drink some water Josh let's sign off all right ad you bye everyone