[Music] hey you hear me okay hello you hear me yes sir oh good is it how about this does it sound loud and clear it does okay good yeah you're coming through Gang Busters so um it's going to be un troll meaning I mean we're going to wear the clothes but we're just going to take it as it goes um I'm a little under the weather I just got up out of bed to be honest with you I uh good job of making your bed I just got out I'm just so sick uh but this is I wanted to be available for this on a lot of medication I actually had to call in a court and go I can't make it I never done that before in 30 years you know uh so that's how sick I was that's just not me I'm TR trying to figure out how to write to people to tell them see question answer no open questions chat ah here we go you like that um look the lighting it behind me with the unblurred I really do I like the blue um I like the cat tower okay but no cat no cat nah he make too much takes him hours to settle down and show oh really how old is he seven or eight once he settled down he's all right though how many cats do you have three whoa how's your wife like that oh they're her cats um ex-wife she doesn't care oh okay she likes him she likes him better than she likes me yeah you'd be married for you were married for a while yeah I was but I've been divorced for a while too so that's been good I know the feeling man I you see here I'm I'm looking up because I have the camera is down here okay you're looking great I'm looking at you on this screen over here okay is that all right I make the same mistake so I'm going to try and look at camera yeah I'll try I could put it down I suppose right I mean if I put you down here then I'm looking down more straight on that way so I sent you my the talking points and stuff looking right at him you just got to see something else almost [Music] there H come on there it is someone someone already sent me questions to ask you what time all right I'm trying not to perspire too much um are you in Florida huh are you in Florida yeah but that's not I'm it's cold in here but I'm just I'm killing this virus in me every time I fly I just got back from Michigan I get sick that's the only time I get sick okay that's an easy one you don't have to ask you that so I'm not gonna ask you how long do you have to all right so let's see participants three already okay Scott Manelli is that correct yeah go so there's just me and you and Cindy so far well it's not two o'clock now it says four participants so they have to log in they have to participate they can't just watch they can do whatever for they can do whatever they want allow to talk let's see Greg is now allowed to talk hello Greg Greg's on mute but there we go hey how's it going good we're gonna start at two we're just uh chewing the fat right now getting ready figuring this stuff out Hello nice to meet you yeah you too you want the first question Greg uh I think Paul's gonna handle the questions at least uh for for now all right so I'm going to um I'm going to talk up Scott here before I do anything and I am trying to get let people in now here they come 157 how's the weather up there Scott hot hot and stormy my kid has been sending me um nighttime electrical storms from his window it's quite a I got out of there just in time I left Sunday night and then Monday I guess that's when the stuff hit the fan yeah yeah it's been intermittently hot and stormy and thunderstorms Etc can you see the people joining now I see a few yes okay good looks like we got an attorney Andrew wager perhaps how's it going everybody how are you dressed so nicely so work from home it uh get you eventually right I love it if I get if it gets to me I just walk outside hello hello hi how's it going how are you we're going to uh okay ask to unmute Paul are you there I I hope I didn't press the wrong button there hey Brian how are you hey here you go this guy's a good guy he's on this uh Scott this guy watch out for this guy he probably knows your job as well as his own he settles cases all day long it's his job who's that Paul Paul okay I don't like saying your last name how do I pronounce that Paul it's just kill yeah I know it's a funny last okay just making sure that I'm letting everybody in actually work okay um all right Scott oh shoot we'll wait till it's two I don't want to uh hey Paul yeah Brian can you see the uh the question and answer that I have format of your questions um where would it be in the chat chat yeah I don't see anything in the chat no to hosts and panelists yeah I don't see anything typed in I'm going to type something can you see this I just typed something into the chat I can see that okay so I don't see anything above that shoot how about below nothing no says format your questions does anybody else see anything Andrew Greg do you guys see anything in the chat I'm not seeing anything oh no well it isn't important what I say it's important what you guys say seriously so I don't know why that is the case but I'm going to start now it's two o'clock uh Scott has bravely uh giving me two hours of his time met of introduction Scott Manson Elli is a guy I come across or up against maybe once or twice a year maybe once or twice every couple of years and he's one of the few attorneys on that side of the fence or that side of the V that I respect highly and he he doesn't just slap stuff together like a lot of my genius quote unquote is just using the the other side's documents against them if you if you if you watch my videos that's all you hear me say but it's true and Scott presents me with a real task I actually have to do a lot more work because he puts more work into his I think he respects his clients that's what I think it is a lot of the work against uh debt collectors they it's so shoddy the complaints now the other side of that is this filing thousands of those complaints and somebody signing off on them or creating them for them in another state but you have a certain monum or uh a minimum standard of care Scott far exceeds that in his work and uh exceeds most people that I deal with so it's a real joy to have him here and it's going to be a wealth of information for you all whatever your questions are I have a couple of jobs to do as I'm talking one is to let people in and just to keep an eye on things on top of um on top of uh asking Scott and I'm trying believe it not I'm going to be doing a lot more listening than talking but um Scott how you doing today I'm great I think I'm you tell tell us a little something about yourself from the beginning to where you're at now briefly oh okay so um I from the beginning uh I went to Hope College in Holland Michigan Which is my Hometown I've got a major in Political Science and History um I went to University of Oregon law school in the 90s and while I was there and in the Summers I worked in salmon canies in Alaska and I worked my way through college and Furniture factories in Holland and cooking and things like that so I've got a lot of you know workingclass background you know before I became a lawyer uh practiced law in California for 6 years often doing consumer bankruptcy work and working for uh you know people who are discriminate against rawful termination discrimination consumer bankruptcy but also had some business collection clients back then and that's where the collection work first started I had actually the phone books for Southern California was one of my main clients so we were suing on businesses who didn't pay for their phone book ads moved back to Michigan and and 2000 and contined to do consumer bankruptcy and general practice and then I moved into a firm where we did a lot of commercial Collections and U commercial loan workout trying to keep factories open trying to keep Farms up our operational but paying off their their loans and sometimes we would have to liquidate and and sell off assets but sometimes we got them fixed did forbearance agreements and did deals and then that eventually transitioned into we did that so well that we the bank started asking us hey can you handle all these smaller cases for us and so that's what the transition was to the consumer collection and the debt or bankruptcy kind of faded out and I did a lot more Predator work in bankruptcy when someone uh you go to a cocktail party and someone says hey what do you do what is it you say to them depends on who they are but uh you know sue sue your ass and take your money all right but it it depends you know um I'll tell them I solve problems ultimately is that uh we figure out ways to do deals and uh we we get people together and work out a deal and if if they're not willing to deal then we will pursue the litigation and collect the money but if I'm in a group of you know Predators then that joke does kind of take flight but so um it sounds like you will pursue but before you will before you pursue the deor that area be between your filing a law suit and your Pursuit is there room there for someone like a deor to settle this case convince you they don't know it I mean what is the mechanism or parameters there how does one approach a deck collector attorney uh and and how does one win you over what's the the techniques or rules that they should follow well we there is uh there is a window of opportunity to get these things done without litigation so the initial stages let's assume we're in the opening stages of a matter and youve you've received a letter from me or some other debt collection attorney if you don't ignore the letter are willing to communicate and reach out don't ignore the letter don't circular file it but call or respond and start a conversation and that will always be less expensive for you in the long run if someone receives your letter and sends you a validation request what is you or your offices thoughts on that and response to that as a Visa wanting to work with the data does that put you off what is that your thoughts on that uh it depends on what they say I mean if hopefully they're giving me some information to go on they often I just get a dispute that says nothing sometimes I'll get a dispute that says oh identity theft we will look at it we'll look at go through all the me media again and all the contract and all the documentation we'll ask for additional documentation from the client and and try to sort out what it is respond to whatever their issue is and we will always send them you know a specific letter that is not not a form letter but it specifically addresses all of their issues with supporting documentation how much time do you spend weekly or monthly uh keeping up with or audits cpfp government regulation intervention how how much of your uh law practice is dealing with that type of situation two to four hours a week um because and I'm I tried to be quite you know pay attention to compliance right so um we don't have too many issues frankly um I've learned to make quality letters and to deal with people in such a way that they don't wanna pursue I I don't I've never had a cfpb complaint ever how long have you been doing this uh collections 25 years out of 30 years of practice wow so I've had a few people complain about various issues but typically they were just valid debts that they just didn't want to pay all right so you get a case comes in from your client what's the approach you take from beginning to end okay okay so I've got a Deb collection client who wants to pursue review the media make sure they've got all the contract and documentation that they have the bills of sale if it's a someone who's taking assignment of the debt I check out my own client's background to make sure they're not being sued for anything to make sure they don't have any issues I'll decline clients if I feel like they're a risk to me or they have a bad history and then I look into who they want to sue and and sometimes I'll find that you know it appears that some of these people are not collectible and it's just not a good use of time to pursue them and then we work up letters to the deor send out the letters make sure we have good addresses for everybody make sure we know that they're still in Michigan and still alive and not in the military and not bankrupt we' run all these background checks so we eliminate all these people that should not be dude from the get-go and then if they're not responding to a couple of letters maybe I will send an email if they've already signed something allowing for emails but after that they're going to get a lawsuit you said something about in the military touch upon that briefly um you can sue people that are in the military but they they kind of get a um they have some protections and if they're you know if they're over placed overseas or if they're on you know active duties out of the country it makes it more difficult and basically it's just not worthwhile to sue someone in the military okay so is there's specific laws governing the military law yeah there's the Soldiers and Sailors Relief act and there's other laws and it comes up so infrequently that when I do have someone that's in the military uh I will essentially just put that case on hold until they're out of the military so what do you do you just put it on the Shelf I just uh put it calendar it for a followup in a year because the the act that gives them some leeway from being sued or being collected upon also extends the statue limitations for my clients what states are you a member of the bar of uh California and Michigan California was early on in Michigan from 2000 to the present do you still practice in California I have not recently but in the past five years I have I used to get involved in class action cases in California from here your clients are being sued or you're suing I would object and and uh interrupt the whole class action and and represent objectors and class actions explain briefly what you mean by that but it's kind of phased away but you could if I would have clients who are m members of the class and uh they're like what can we do here and I said well are you happy with the settlement and she goes no I don't think it's very very generous and so I'd represent them and I'd file an objection and appear and throw a wrench in the works and try to get a better deal for for the objector so you're on my side of the V you're you're a good guy sort of all right um a good guy in general I do you know I represent consumers too um in what way well our practice is not just entirely debt collection it's also um business representation I could have two businesses locally that are fighting over the delivery of a piece of Machinery or uh an order of goods we do divorce work we do um probate stuff we kind of specialize in Probate fights where for example uh son is the beneficiary of a trust and uncle is the trustee and dad is dad and uncle won't pay the son his money so it's sort of like a probate collection or a probate bad faith case we have many of those so you know if you're if you're the beneficiary of a trust and you're not getting your money we're we can help you all right so one thing you didn't touch upon when I asked you how you approach a case and this is important I viewers may want to hear this um what is your policy each I've noticed in my work each firm or collector has different types of policy behind reporting a debt to a credit or a credit bureau is there a certain time way or do you avoid it altoe uh I don't report and I don't take clients who report why is that um because once you start reporting you have to continue to report in kind of indefinitely and it's it's a hassle so I don't report bad I don't report good we don't report at all and that's one of the criteria I tell my clients is like I don't recommend it and it's not I don't find it to be a useful collection tool so that's for very big big big discover and visa and City Bank and things like that but I don't find it useful and it's um it opens up a whole realm of administrative compliance that I don't want to deal with and I so the benefit the costs outweigh the benefits of credit reporting okay so I'm a DEA you've got a debt of mine for $1,600 let's say Discover card and you just sued me what should I do in the next 21 days one thing you should not do is nothing you should read the thing through thoroughly and then be willing to Comm communicate contact us and don't call us mad you know take a minute think about it and don't call if you're angry or upset have a you know write out what you want to talk about maybe make some talking points and then call and explain what your situation is you know communication is number one if you're reaching out to us before the lawsuit or immediately after lawsuit it's going to save you money it's going to be ultimately cheaper for you in the long run and uh because attorney fees don't get added we might do a deal without interest cost there won't be extra costs so all these things that cost me money or cost my client money won't be incurred that's which which is why you should call in response to the letter because filing fees and service fees all get thrown into these judgments so you if you're delaying until after you get sued you're just added more more amount to the debt all right so a question I have about that is let's say it's five years ago tell me what your feelings were about Deb settlement companies and now today what your feelings are whether good or bad or plus or minus about debt settlement companies personally I think they just delay things and the deals that debt collection companies are doing um I could do without them if they just contacted me now I don't know what the motivation is on the part of the consumer maybe they're trying to settle a wide array of debts I don't know and maybe that's better for them but if it's just just my one case whatever deal you're trying to get the the the company to do for you you could do with me but maybe maybe it's too anxiety inducing or something and maybe some people just need to have that representative I don't know they usually hire incredibly bad attorneys and there's never been I almost always get summary disposition on a consumer who's hired a a a a settlement company that then hires an attorney terrible so you're getting mediocre legal representation through the debt consolidation or the debt settlement company and their settlement numbers are often unrealistic so they're like wanting to settle for 30% or 40% I'm like no I know this person's background it's not reasonable we can do almost any payment plan that you want but I'm not going to Discount this debt by 40 or 50 per. so if I'm a debt settlement company how do I approach you what's the best way where uh I'm going to win favor with you you and you're going to give me the best deal possible and then B what is your flexibility about making a deal like what you've been talking about is stuff on the ground you've not talked about your client's parameters for you settlement settling you've been talking about yourself and how you settle and the one-on-one and the communication so what part does your client play in a settlement depending on the client I have a a range of settlement Authority that could be quite large or it could be quite narrow depending on the client and the amount of the debt and So within that range I can largely do whatever I want I also as long as they're paying the full amount I can do almost any payment plan that seems reasonable to me based upon the information that I have and that's the only time you can do a good payment plan when they pay the full amount no if there's other reasons to Discount again it goes back to the next so you know communication next is honesty right so don't make up stories tell me the truth um if you lie to me I'm just going to figure it out I've just been around too long to be to hear a BS story right but you know if you really are disabled then then tell me that and send me their disability statement if you have five kids and you're a single mom you know send me a page from your tax return listing all these kids as dependents um if you have a special needs child you know then send me something on that a diagnosis or you've got you know cancer whatever just back it up be will to back it up with some documentation because then I can go to my client and said hey this this person's told me they've got this issue and they've backed it up with supporting documentation can I can I do this reduced hardship settlement deal and they will invariably say Yes um briefly go over I guess it would be Federal the exceptions for example if you have a garnishment against a person that is only on Social Security you mention disability or receiving a pension what are the rules behind whether you can lean or garnish those uh accounts I always tell clients and you can tell me if I'm wrong it's good create a fund a bank account that says Social Security and do not co-mingle with anything else and you're largely going to be a garnishment proof I may be wrong about that what are your thoughts on all that what are the rules I I would generally agree with that um that Social Security monies and disability monies are not garnishable um if and and the banks will look back a certain amount of time if they get a garnishment to see if there are exempt funds in there okay um but if you have such an account and you never spend the money and it just builds and builds and builds then the banks are only going to say that this amount of money the the 90day look back or whatever the look back period is is exempt and they're going to allow the rest of the garnishment to go through why uh because that's there's only a certain amount that is ex unless you the debtor or the consumer files an objection that's my recollection if it's all Social Security or pension or protected money what difference does it make how large is in that account well that nobody knows the banks are only looking back so far right so they're only looking back so far to see where that money come came from the Creditor has no idea I have no idea so if if you have $10,000 that's built up over years in in an account that's also soci security you should file an exemption you know an objection to the garnishment and say it's exempt and provide the statement showing that it's exempt otherwise they're going to assume that money that was beyond the look back period there's a mathematical formula for it I don't remember it off the top of my head but there's a formula for how to calculate that out and that's Federal yes okay all right uh now pension money go ahead is not exempt so if you have an account that has nothing but pension money in it it can be garnished I can't garnish the monthly pension but once it's in the bank account it is garnishable why is that um nobody has carved out an ex exemption for that so no state or federal it's just money that's available it's not I can't garnish the I can't do a periodic garnishment to Fidelity for that's paying out a GM pension but once that money is in the bank account there is case laaw saying it's not exempt now I you and I came across each other I believe it was on a foreclosure account and what's happening today is I don't know if you're aware of this is a lot of zombie mortgages showing up and there are some that say hey they can't touch me it's after 15 years or 10 years or whatever the statute of limitations in is in Michigan um let me present you a scenario gentleman loses his home he they take the home he has a second note of 14 years ago and they say 2025 it's supposed to come due even though the house is gone you owe us the1 25,000 for example you took out does he have any protections or ways to stop being uh the default is 14 years ago yes that would be a beyond all statute limitations so it's not 15 years it's 10 15 so let's say he's still in the house okay there's there's a 15year statute limitation on the mortgage foreclosure so he could be in default for 12 years he's still in the house and and for 12 years they've got no payments the six-year statute on the Note has been has is gone the 10-year statute to sue on a covenant in the mortgage is gone but the 15year statute to begin foreclosure on the mortgage is still available are you collecting a zombie well let's call it a second note debt is that part of your practice I finished it all up there's nothing left as far as I'm aware oh okay I've been reading a lot about the zombie mortgage that is showing up again oh there you go all right uh if anybody has any questions I am scanning through I don't mean to dominate you know I don't I don't know that we finished you know how to handle if you get sued all right keep going sorry we had honesty you know you know if again you tell me your story and it's truthful I'll work with you take take accountability and responsibility if it's your debt you know don't try to like oh blame it on the Creditor or blame it on your son that you co-signed the loan for to get his car just accept the responsibility and then you know we can really I appreciate that you know I will work with you I will possibly discount the debt I will ask the client to reduce interest or freeze interest by the way another reason to do a deal before you get sued because almost all my clients will allow me to freeze interest pruit what does that mean it means that they will not charge you interest on your settlement or Your settlement payments but once I've got a judgment and there's a judgment interest rate built into it they are highly unlikely to uh give up on the interest what about your debt buyer clients that's absolutely that they agree they let me do that they because most of the settlements if there's so much even I can't get it eliminated and there's a payment plan on what's left they will always give me no interest payments you're saying you don't have the authority with your clients to do that uh I have less Authority post-judgment than I do prejudgment or pre but yes I can get authority to reduce or cut interest uh um if it's supported by documentation so be honest be accountable uh communicate always if you get a letter communicate uh be creative be willing to put up some collateral or make a big down payment to buy yourself a lower interest rate or get a big discount all these clients want to get more money up front so if you got a $30,000 debt and you're willing to you want to go on payments but you can put 10 th000 down you'll probably get a discount and you get a very reasonable payment and or interest rate like a hybrid approach correct I often build in early incentive payment you know rewards so if the settlement is 50 but if you can pay 35 within six months you're done so talk talk to me briefly about creating a consent order what is it and what goes into creating it and what are the protections for the dtor and the protections for you so we've had some conversations we've we've gotten enough information to figure out what they can afford and what's reasonable um I I'll let you know I'll alten say what is it you can afford to pay if it's a small debt under 5,000 I I'll ask them what do you want to do and they'll say I want to pay 200 I want to pay 150 okay fine we'll do that what day you want to pay it on they pick a day so I will then prepare a consent judgment for the balance with the payment that they want and I will say to them can you pay more if you can pay more per month we will we will reduce your interest rate or we will maybe give you a small discount if you can't that's fine we'll do this um I'll prepare a consent judgment that's built in with a payment plan and the date that it's owing I'll also prepare a post-judgment forbearance agreement that allows them to gives them five or six different options about how to pay mail a check pay online pay by phone we take the payment from their bank account all kinds of different options and we will also um give them seven to 10 days notice if they miss a payment via email if they do so they can cure if there's a problem was there a question all right I think we do we have our first question does someone have a question [Music] you hello think we should Miss kid Jillian oh hi hi Hi how are you great what's going on with you hear me so I know that you's practice in Michigan but I'm from New Jersey and can you hear me I can loud and clear very good okay um and the question is if the um debt collection company is suing me um they have to have a license in the state that they're suing me in is that correct or not correct depends on the state so a debt collection company is not necessarily suing you whoever owns the data suing you right that's that well I'm I worded it wrong so collector that is suing me it's not they have to have that license in order to make the complaint let me answer it from the Michigan legal perspective so in Michigan an owner of a debt does not need to be licensed to sue okay if the attorney is licensed by the State Bar and if you're getting calls or letters from a collection agency they need to be licensed but the owner of the debt does not I don't know what what the requirement is for New Jersey and Jillian um a lot of states have what are called local debt collector statutes in some cases they're actually better than the Fair Debt Federal collection practic act for example Florida if you're not licensed you go to jail no you don't go to jail but you have to pay to the data and you're in a lot of trouble so that's a state where you have to be licensed whereas as Scott was saying Michigan eh not so much uh debt collectors when they go into a state and correct me if I'm wrong Scott they look at how regulated the area is like for example you don't really have to volunteer to be licensed in Michigan and I used to Gig people that did do that they thought they had to be licensed um and then there's other states Maryland is one that lot of debt collectors don't like to go in there and the rules are always changing California is heavily regulated so debt collectors think twice about going into a state are there as you suggest some that kind of go around the fringes and go where they shouldn't before getting license most likely what I would suggest you do is and this is what I used to do before licensing wasn't an issue I'd go on onto the corporate website of Michigan and look who's licensed who isn't right and I've done I just wanted to be sure and the people that are suing me um they are not licensed here so uh you can Google in New Jersey does a debt collector have to be licensed to collect or operate and again as they're saying in Florida that's strictly for Bowen you have to be licensed okay New Jersey is the same way because they are a if you will and I don't get political but they are sort of to the left of things it's a very Democratic State and that usually means heavy regulation does that make sense yes so I just want to be clear the lawyer that they have um is from New Jersey as well but the company themselves have to have a license in order to get the lawyer and have the lawyer sue me and that's what the law is in New Jersey yes have they sued you yes have you answered the lawsuit yes have you cited in your defense or affirmative defenses that the uh creditor in this case if I hear your fact scenario is unlicensed I did not because I just found this out all right how long did you follow your answer as I'm going um you are such a blessing to me believe it or not um so I'm following everything that you're saying and um that's where I started out so I did the um I answered the complaint I did my affidavit but I've done this like way back in February so a lot of new things are coming up so I'm just trying to kind of I guess if I need to amend it I could but um what is a blessing in New Jersey they've sort of slowed down there as far as like in Michigan you'll have a pre-draw within a month uh in New Jersey it's real slowed down have you had your first pre-trial yet yes um so we I actually got one um canceled out so one of the loans were it was he he just he let that one go good so so you want to do a motion then to amend your answer and how you would do that is you'd write up what your answer you want it to look like attach it as exhibit one tell the court I've just discovered evidence that this and make a big deal about that that is your reason but make a big deal like they're coming into New Jersey and D you know so not only even if you I I'm a big believer even if you lose a motion uhuh get it in the the the judge's head your position never give up on a chance to State your case so that you always win even in a loss in that situation but I think you'll win to amend and what I really think will happen is if you're right on the law that case will get settled so to get to Scott's point about communicating I would contact the attorney and say look I'm about to file this motion would you agree I know you think it's not going to work but hear me out would you agree to let me stipulate to amend my answer and she's gonna so he's gonna say here she's Miss kid what is the basis of this you go well I've discovered your client isn't XYZ and here's why if you're right you may settle that case on that phone call okay so and I have I was kind of nervous about that um and the only reason why is because I didn't want to give them enough time in order for them to get that they like get the license well they can't retroactively it's like if they break into your house if they go you know clean up the window they broke it doesn't mean they didn't break into your house you know you've got them in that regard Scott may see it differently what do you think Scott I think they could just dismiss and refile it and fix it see that's what I if it's really your DB I mean you've got it I mean it's correctable so if it's really your debt then you should probably reach out and try to do a deal knowing you got this leverage or maybe you have emotion right and that's Scott's point about communication you've got leverage and act very serious about wanting to do this never threaten anything you aren't going to do and don't let them say okay we'll get back to you Miss kid you go uhuh by the seventh of May I'm GNA file this I'm reaching out to you because I believe communication is a good thing and blah blah blah blah blah and uh okay so Scott and I gonna bought heads in a friendly way here if you don't whether you owe it or not is irrelevant sorry Scott if they are suing you they've created a higher standard of care meaning they now have to show a a burden of proof so there's two forms of collection there's the one before the lawsuit and the one after and of course post judgment but the standard is much lower if it's pre-lawsuit postlaw suit they have a burden of proof where even if you owe it they've got to show the court they have standing so Scott and I are gonna see that differently I'm going to say they have no business suing you uh he's right about if you owe it that is the standing but who by the way who's if you don't mind who is the plaintiff the plaintiff is absolute resolution oh you don't know that don't even try I wish you would do a a a video on them specific I did all the way through I it's specific take a look on my membership site maybe it's YouTube um all the paperwork I've got at least I think one or two on specifically I just did an absolute I'm always doing videos on cases that I'm doing because I prefer to give you real cases when I was in law school I I wanted attorney professors I didn't want professors that look in books all day so that's what I want that's what I want you to have for me someone that's actually litigating an absolute that's a joke there is no way do not do your best but you don't know that great can you do one um just just saying because I'm going through another one too um the company is credit court that is my next one I thank you for reminding me because I used to do a lot of credit C back in the day and then they just dropped but I keep hearing more and more so I'm GNA do one for you it's just that I haven't done one myself as I said before I have done plenty but I haven't done like in the last two years let me Scout around um actually give you I can give you something to do if you like I any video on MCM absolute crown asset uhg just go on my membership site there's like 10 uh frequent flyers there any one of those is what you can use for absolute or in your case credit core they don't have the paperwork and they're a large enough outfit where they follow these lawsuits constantly where they don't take great care as you've seen in my use their documents against them all right Miss kid you're the greatest um we're moving on it does anybody else have a question yeah I have a question um hi Scott thanks for taking the time and uh thanks Brian for inviting us um so I have a specific question on a like if a debt gets dismissed like a uh case gets dismissed either due to lack of evidence or lack of uh but for whatever reason it's dismissed without prejudice what are the factors that go into the likelihood of a new suit being filed as opposed to just the debt going back to whatever creditor it is that's a great question I ask that myself great question we well we don't know why it's getting dismissed so that's a big I mean it could be that if you have the if the client has the media and has the supporting documentation and you are in that jurist or they can locate you then Pro and it's a significant debt it's and it's not outside the statute limitation it's probably going to get refiled I have cases that are just just dismissed for non-service because I just can't find them or they they're hiding and they they get refiled typically can you give us a fact scenario caller caller talker okay for instance all right so um if I recall one there was a case um it was a Bank of America case uh with javic um and it got dismissed but we don't know why we just know that the that they dismissed it voluntarily um and then we're expecting but then when we reached out to them to see if they wanted to settle um they were kind of stonewalling us uh so it kind of made me wonder is this debt do they know that this debt is going to going to go back to Bank of America or do they know that they're refiling a new lawsuit I didn't know I still don't know it's still ongoing but um that I'm a little in the dark about it so I was just wondering maybe if you could shed some light on something something like that yeah what can Paul do well if they're not if they're not communicating with him then then not much but you might go get the court file and find out what what they sued on before get a copy of the original complaint and the other things and you know if the attorney's not willing to talk to you you could reach out to the Creditor that would probably light a fire under the attorney because the client's going to call them could be that the client decided didn't want to sue or could be that they sold it and now they're pulling it back because it's Bank of America that means it's the original creditor so it could be that Bank of America sold it all off and said hey cancel this thing or there's some other glitch came up or issue came up could be um so that happens sometimes with people who have very you know generic names John Anderson or something like that they sued the wrong John Anderson or they mixed up the media who knows we're just we're kind of speculating all right thank you so much yeah next question got great resource here all right I got a question all right let's say you're going to court and it's a judge you just just don't mix with you no matter what you do it's almost like he's purposely against you do you ever have that that feeling yes what do you do about that send my partner okay but your partners up north fishing and you have to go what do you do with a a rascal of a judge and I ask that I have a video on what I do but you tell me what from your side I try to avoid going to the judge and try to cut a deal um so I'll immediately like if it's a Zoom hearing I'll say hey yna can you put us in a breakout room I think I could work something out so you're saying if the judge sucks I mean causes you issues that's reason enough for you to want to settle that case yes wow now there are Judges where I have figured out what they want and I will show up with all the things that they like ahead of time judge Marbel and Flint for example you are the only one I know exactly what he wants so he what is it well he has issues with explain who judge mirbel is in a nice way I don't know if you can uh judge marabel is a judge in in Flint Michigan and he's very particular on certain things and he's somewhat Mercurial and he doesn't care how much time he'll use up on something and he'll drag out hearings interminably and he forces hearings on mans that really don't need a hearing at all like Ren's I sense that he's as as as interesting as he is to watch and then by the way you can Google him and find some great videos um and I've actually watched the clerk just give him just stand up and just scream at him I mean that that's how tense that courtroom is really the clerk yeah she runs that place and she just screams at him and but I sense that he's Pro defendant me the deor more so than he is you am I wrong that's fair but if it's a local creditor like a local landlord or some you know one one local person against another he's pretty neutral I've observed that but I've observed many other attorneys going in particularly appearance attorneys and just don't they just don't have the information right so I go in there and I've got all the things that he wants like he he wants to know if you're going to renew a judgment what efforts have been done to collect who owns the debt now is the you know is the guy in the military has the plaintiff ever been sued for you know class action and I'll make an affidavit and I'll cover and I'll attach exhibits for everything he wants and I'll say and then I'll say and I give him definitive answers because he goes through his list and most of the time the attorneys get in trouble because they say I don't know but I'll say no no no no yes no no no and here's my affidavit oh well you're handling this pretty good Council I like the way you handle this this exactly how he said it yeah but he he gets involved in cases and facts that have nothing to do with the case he'll just bring up some so for a for a minute I'm like is this guy like a genius and he's going somewhere then you realize there's nothing there he just it's no he gets he goes off on wild tangents for sure yeah and you you know when you have your let's say you have a two o'clock hearing bring a lunch and bring other work to do because it's going to be a while it is yeah that's how you handle a a judge that you have difficulty with you try to figure out what they want of course be respectful think outside the box how you've done that with that judge I I good for you so good side early yeah do we have any more questions all right I have one okay go ahead go ahead oh okay Scott say you somebody's making periodic payments on their account to you how often do you update the the Creditor about the payments well the Creditor is going to get the their their portion every month so then does the Creditor update the amount of the charge off on the credit report or you don't know well like I said my clients generally don't report okay okay I missed that part sorry yeah so I'm not reporting they're generally not reporting um if if some defendant debtor wants consumer wants hey I want something to show the credit reported agent this is resolved I will provide him with a signed letter on the letter head I will send them an original note if I have it marked paid you know um for example I I've inherited auto loan cases um I will send them a notorized blue ink signature letter saying this debt is paid Please Release the lean on the title I'll send you whatever will help you that you want to send on to I but I'm not going to send it to directly to the Secretary of State I'm not going to send it to the credit reporting agency I'll send it to you and you can do whatever you want with it okay thank you all right so we have a question on the chat line what do you do if you intend to communicate with you be accountable be realistic but you're not working you're not currently working how what do you do about that de and the fear of you getting a judgment against someone that is not working I would ask in the back it up by some documentation like an unemployment statement or something like that or i' I would want to know why they're not working I might send them a personal financial statement form to fill out um I might ask them well fine here's a consent judgment and it says on here uh no collection Act activity for 90 days or no collection activity for 180 days because I got to finish the case but if you if you can't pay and you're clearly um you're you're in a hardship situation or you're you're thinking about bankruptcy I'm like okay I don't mind if you file bankruptcy I just got to finish off this case and I got to do my diligence to my client so you know what here's a judgment and I'm I'm gonna say I can't do anything for 90 $120 days go do your bankruptcy I I'll write it in right into the Judgment no collection activity for x amount of days or no collection after for 90 days and on on afterwards they'll start paying $10 a month and they and then after two years it'll go to $30 a month whatever um if it's pruit I might say okay well here's a settlement agreement um just you make nominal payment pents and in that you know good faith payments whatever it's hard for me just to do nothing right I've got to do something for my client and also just depends on the debt if it's a very small debt then we might just write it off if you've backed up what does bankruptcy do when you're pursuing someone for a debt either pre or or during litigation well if they file a bankruptcy it puts a state on the litigation prevents uh anybody from going after assets of the debtor or assets of the bankruptcy estate and stops all litigation now depending on the Creditor if if it's an auto loan and it's a nice car and you're not paying for it they very well can move for relief of stay and take that car unless you got what's what's a relief of stay it's an order I file a motion to the bankruptcy court to get relief from the stay prohibiting legal action and uh those are typically granted unless you can show that you've got a plan to reaffirm that particular secure dat or uh to or or some other way to put it wrap it up and and pay it eventually do you handle or have you handled private or public student loan private being just from a bank public meaning from the Department of Education I've not handled public student loan but I do have ongoing cases for private student loans yes do you know any of the rules or ways for someone that has a public uh loan to avoid paying or to get out of what I consider quite harsh punishments both private and public are technically non-dischargeable in bankruptcy um how and in particular public more so and if they want to get it discharged they're going to have to file an action for declaratory relief that they are hardship such a hardship candidate that they deserve to have the student loan wiped out are the hardship rules still really hard to qualify for I am not practicing that heavily I have read some of it and um it's a mixed bag it particularly in private student loans they seem to be the judges are more hostile to having private student loans be non-dischargeable do you have uh clients that you represent for private student loans and then suddenly uh as what's happening in the billions now their debt gets waved does that mean you can't collect on it I've not had any wave because none of these waivers that I have seen applying to private student loans there have been a few that cases involving schools for-profit yeah universities that charged a lot and then had a lot of debt tied into it those are like a niche area where where things are getting wiped out but most of my student loans are legitimate you know state universities and have nothing to do with that kind of stuff do we have any more questions yeah I have another one if uh if you don't mind thank you go ahead okay um so Scott so just a little background I've been settling debt on and off for about eight years um and do you think there's anything attributing to the fact that uh when I first started settling debt uh a third party like Crown asset their settlement options would start at around 40% like we would be able to settle for 40% quite easily with Crown Asset Management um and nowadays they're starting at like 75 at the very like lowest point do you think that anything attributing to that like such a leap in what they've been asking for lately even with even with the lawsuits back in the day we were able to sell for much lower than what they're selling for now um I I wouldn't think it's inflation because it's still the same percentage of the money do you do you think anything's attributing to that raise in expectations well I think it is inflation and I think it's the economy I mean we have nearly full employment right now and and their employees are getting paid more their costs are higher so I think that's the factor I can't other other than that I wouldn't know I think speaking of factors what factors in your assessment or your desire to settle with somebody does the increase in housing prices have right now for you very [Music] little um I think the economy in michig Michigan is really good um I haven't heard that many people I mean I hear it a little bit you know that um that doesn't make me discount the amounts owing it may make me give them a smaller payment per month again if they back up with documentation and I have these personal financial statements that they truthfully send me stuff you know I'll you know particularly if people have a big big debt 20 to 50,000 I want more documentation before I just you know put them on a payment plan that's going to take a decade clients really want these things paid off in four years four to five years do we go longer absolutely but I need some supporting doc mentation particularly if it's a small debt I mean you know 7500 or less I'm not going to string this out for more than five years back to Aaron's point is there anything one generally can do when he's facing a debt buyer debt collect creditor that won't come down and won't go lower than 80 or 75% is there anything else one can do to work that person and including hey can I talk to your supervisor hey can I uh talk to somebody else or hey so go ahead and sue me offer a bigger down payment or offer offer a lump sum now it doesn't a debt clle back to my question a second when you get a lump sum and forgive me for sounding cynical but doesn't the debt collector prefer to have a payment plan because the odds are is the person is going to miss a payment now you can exercise on the whole amount instead of the settled amount so debt buyers or debt collectors want payment plans and it isn't beneficial to do a lump sum what are your thoughts no I don't I don't I think they'd rather have the money and move on absolutely particularly the commercial clients the particularly the commercial the bigger ones the bigger the bigger the debt I mean the riskier it is that you're going to get get that money over time so so they don't care that it could quickly go to judgment and save them all the chasing of litigation because you missed a payment they would prefer to get upfront still absolutely okay I would prefer to get payments per person for my but I don't mind I get the sense that you are very Hands-On that people aren't just calling somebody that works for you that you do a lot of the Hands-On work yes one of my clients you know they have that that that rule that you know meaningful attorney involvement they say Scott you have way too much meaningful involvement in these cases and why is that uh because I get down in the weeds and I figure out what's going on and and get into their background and and look at these things so it's almost like you know like I'm like uh one of those criminal profilers or something like that you know where you're looking trying to the psychology of what they're doing and I'm not meaning that in a bad way but particular I often have very big dollar cases with Bad actors who have transferred assets away and are gambling it away I got one guy who basically embezzled he he got a um one of those factoring agreements where he sold his accounts receivable for like 70 grand he sold 100 for 70 took the 70 and then gambled it at B MGM and so he just squandered this whole and then he took all the money from the business and embezzled that and and and gambled it away so I'm kind now I'm going after his gambling he's gonna we're goingon to file a non-d dischargeability action the guy makes 25,000 a month as a anesthesiologist and owns a tire shop and he's gambling and he's gambling he he in fact I I looked I got his records from B MGM and he made 14,000 bets in a two-year period 14,000 online bets how large how what's the average $ five to $500 to get comped he he he won 1.5 million and and he lost like one you know 1.6 so he ended up like a negative [Music] 250,000 wow so he's he's you know I tried to do them it was like a bet like every 1.5e minutes or something like that over but he would do like dozens at a time right but if you if you averaged him out over the course of the year it was like multiple bets per I just see a patient laid out passed out and he's got the phone resting on the patient while he's being doing his job betting bet MGM and now now he's in bankruptcy it's a mess yeah I'm going to sue him for non- dischargeability um I should have asked you about this earlier three times now you've used the word media to describe what you look at when you're deciding to Sue or to settle what is media the underlying contractual documents and then the account history documents when do you have the underlying signed agreements do you always have that uh 95% of the time it's extraordinary I haven't seen it in years I never see the underlying it's always a copy especially if it's discover or do I have a I have a digital copy of it yeah I don't have the I don't have paper copies the sign yeah I have signed most of the time I have signed whether digital or otherwise but they're copies the only time I get Originals is is in those mortgage cases they got to be in a safe they got to be yeah they're in some safe then they ship them to me and I have them and I literally have them in my hand like your honor I have the original note in my hand how can I not have standing and did you win I did win all right well uh does anybody have any more questions yeah I have a question great let's keep it going is it me yeah go ahead yeah sorry go ahead sorry great okay yeah so I have a a judgment against me um from 2008 and I was unsure how they got a judgment I previously went to court in 2007 but it seems they filed the Judgment against me in 2008 I didn't I didn't receive any papers um and now it's 16 years later so um I think I have a motion filed next month and I wanted to know how what's the best way to proceed are you in Michigan no I'm in I'm in Mar I'm in another state too okay the Judgment was in in Massachusetts but I'm in Maryland corre currently and are they domesticating in in Maryland now no it's in Massachusetts okay and there's a motion for what next month it says a motion for a motion motion hearing to do what I'm not really sure Milton he's asking whether they're turning the one state judgment into the state that you live in judgment so they can collect upon it is it domesticating it look at the top of the paperwork you got top of paperwork is a money action civil no hold on that's from 2007 I actually have the stuff from I got online I don't have the actual paperwork I need to go get it I would you really should just get an attorney and have it looked at correctly because you got multiple jurisdictions you got an old case it may or may not be good um a starting you could call the original court and hey can I buy or can you send me a register of actions so I can see the whole history of the case and once you see that you can see what's kind of what's going on talk to Milton about what the borrowing statute is um yeah it's a private student loan too oh gets better you don't know it tell talk to Milton about if it applies the borrowing statute I think that's where you're going uh where what statute limitation applies to your point so it may well be that the if the judgment is good in in in Massachusetts and it's still active judge it can be uh it should be able to be domesticated or made good in Maryland and then they can pursue in Maryland so uh but it's only going to be good in Maryland for as long as it's good for in Massachusetts once it expires in Massachusetts it's done and I think Massachusetts is 20 years so yeah it so you think it was a 2000 so it still it still could be good for a while and they could still collect so this would be an example of communicate you know figure it out maybe reach out they apparently they found you because they're sending you stuff no they they sending stuff to my my mother's house yeah my mother's house in MA Massachusetts all right so is he on notice if they're sending to his mother's house uh Milton your state ID what address is on your state ID Maryland and where is the and the thing is in Massachusetts yes and they're serving your mother in Maryland well they sent a notice to in in in Boston so does he have proper notice uh generally Scott I don't think so it's post judgment so it doesn't matter I mean they have a duty to send it to his last known address but he knows about this judgment and so it's up to him to update his court address his his address with the court if he chooses to remain in the background and he doesn't he only gets stuff intermittently that's on him he knows about the Judgment forgive me but why is it on him to update his presence and his current address well if he wants to get adequate notice of what's going on post judgment then he should update his address and let them know where he is he can't hardly complain about not getting notice when he knows there's a case no I I just found out um probably in May though all right you never knew about this case for all these years never um I went to court in 2007 um I wasn't working so the Jud the the judge said you know basically we can't do anything because he's not working come back so I didn't receive anything and now in may I get something from my mother's house my mother called me well you did know about the Judgment because you went to court he knew about the case not the Judgment well the court would not have cared about his working or not working that would be irrelevant to a a prejudgment issue so that they cared about him not working that means he probably appeared for creditor exam and the judge said well he's not working so there's nothing to collect here you were probably already in a post-judgment stage when you appeared that time you think so there would no be no reason for the court to care about whether you're working or not working unless it was post judgment it's the same case number right yes the same case number yeah then you knew about the case I would reach out and and and I would reach out to the court and get the court record the complete court record to see what's been going on all these years okay so I have like the summary so it says judgment entered on 10:15 2008 okay was that the Judgment though sounds like it I didn't know about this I I I I must have went to court in 2007 so I didn't know your appearance your hearing would be on that record yes when did you leave Massachusetts uh six years ago ah so you're on H yeah you you're not when the older the judgment is the the less chance you have of getting out of it uh in fact the Michigan rule is it's got to be extraordinary I suspect Maryland and Massachusetts also have an extraordinary rule as far as getting out of a long-term uh judgment I get where you're coming from I'm I I disagree with Scott and I bet you Scott's right and I'm not but bad notice means I'm not on the hook but to Scott's Point again is you kind of are and to protect your backside you should investigate whether you should step up to this an attorney in your I don't know should he get in a a Maryland's attorney or Massachusetts attorney probably Massachusetts I mean you've gone all these years you only got about four years left in this judgment so chances are they're probably not going to collect a whole l a lot yeah and that's a point that's a good point so for example collectors they can't collect from you but they'll go after your state taxes so to Scott's point that they can only do that for four years then you're done so he's not Scott's not telling you what to do or but you really don't have much uh fear of much money being taken is that what you're trying to say Scott it's it' be a lot more work yeah hopefully they're not watching this show how big is the uh judgment uh well the original debt was 7,000 which went went up to 12,000 once once um he the the law firm went to court but now um I'm this thing ballooned so could be I don't know 26,000 I'm I'm not even sure what's the name of the plaintiff the P the actual company that's suing you mountain mountain peaks Financial Services is that the original creditor or is that company that bought the debt that's the company that bought the debt aha so they paid Pennies on the dollar for it I don't know if they're going to chase you that hard that's just my opinion I think you're in better shape uh than you realize you know a lawyer letter or something legal in the mail always shakes you um but the reality of from 30,000 feet is it's a debt that's going to be done in thir in four years the other thought that Scott didn't mention but it re he really kind of has is talk to your attorney get the best information and I'd say maybe I'm wrong about this Scott I know you're going to say yes to this but he Milton should reach out and see if he can make a deal if there's a a fear that it's sitting over his head maybe it'll take a thousand just to go away if as Scott says you can present them with a hardship like you know I'm getting this amount of income this is my uh debt this is my Revenue you may be a to get they they want something and then you agree take it off my credit dismiss with prees once I make payment and you maybe get out of it with th000 what do you think Scott have and have an attorney do that and not disclose where you are perfect yeah so I have a virtual hearing so I'm kind of wondering if they know where I'm at well you have a virtual hearing I the stuff was sent to my mother's address okay so you got to get an attorney right away why because you don't want to show up the virtual hearing you want to keep if you will this fiction going of of of what is this what's going on you don't want involvement the judge will latch on to that I I think he needs an attorney to show up for that hearing what do you think Scott yeah I think I would agree but talk to the attorney before you do anything any virt virtual hearing it's worth it a couple hundred dollars talk to an attorney definitely worth it okay and then as far as my paperwork how do I get that call the court and ask them to email you a copy they can do that possibly or they might charge you a fee and at you know you might they might say send us a check for da d da and and a return envelope and we'll mail you a copy and and you got some good attorneys in Maryland by the way good uh consumer protection attorneys in Maryland it might even be available online if you search for the Court online and try to find U it might have a many Michigan courts are available online and we're not um giving you legal advice Milton we're just problem solvers all right okay so I should contact a Massachusetts lawyer or Maryland say Mass Massachusetts after you get the court record and a local one local to the court so you don't get Hometown you know what I mean what's the term Hometown so you want knows the local Court yeah so if you got a case 200 miles away from where you live and the local attorneys on the other side and you show up from let's say in my case happens to me all the time Detroit they're gonna have like a prejudice against me because I'm out of town so you want a local attorney so you don't get Hometown okay an attorney from the hometown okay I understand all right someone's asking do we know any good consumer lawyers in New Jersey yes I you know first off Google but yes yeah New Jersey's got some really good I used to do a lot of uh consumer conferences I don't do as many I'm just too darn busy but I always met a lot of good attorneys it's also if you will a very liberal area as far as the courts are concerned so consumers do quite well there Philadelphia New Jersey really good attorneys there um Scott did you ever do evictions a few what what's the differ between a summary judgment for possession and a summary judgment for damages because I I was in court a couple of days ago and the person got a judgment for just eviction but not the damages he said he's going to do that later how do you do the bifurcate uh it's just depends on what to what degree the how desperate the landlord is to get the possession back so you can get summary judgment for possession without personal service just by posting on the door wow okay but then if you're GNA go that route you're forgoing any money judgment ah if you want possession and a money judgment you actually have to get personal service or the alternate service order so if you don't care about the money you don't think you're going to collect it then a lot of them will just say just just get rid of them can you go back a month or two later and then go for the money judgment you could yes okay good it's got to be a lot I um usually not worthwhile all right do we have any more questions Scott go ahead oh it's Miss kid again it's me and it's really um directed to you Mr Parker um it is only because I'm unsure so I got a complaint and I was trying to get a request for Discovery um the only thing is the way that the complaint was written it was written as a breach of agreement or breach of contract or breach of account um account stated unjust unjust enrichment Y and I don't know how to um write a request for discovery on that specifically because the one that I had prior had um entities that I could write in but I there's none for this one so I'm not sure how to to do that one are you familiar with the game I think it's called Jenga yeah what is the Jenga game um where the uh the the boxes where you take the Pu the puzzle pieces out right uhhuh eventually one piece yes so pick your poison I would do an adequate defense of obviously the an counter defendant but you're who by the way who's the uh plane against you that's um the Credit corp oh that you're in great shape so just go after them on the proof or the assignments or Scott says the media and you'll see that it's wanting it may be a big bill of sale but it won't be specific to you uh don't worry about having to seek discovery on unjust enrichment that's a throwaway every most ntion Nation wide most collection lawsuits are account stated breach a contract and unjust enrichment sometimes not breach of contracts depends uh but that's a great you credit core you can kick out of there quite easily so my point in discovery which by the way don't worry about that right now you're in an early stage you that Discovery won't be awarded for a month or two then go do your work if you go if you're on my a member of my site all the discovery you are okay all the discovery you need you just change change absolute resolutions and put in credit core have it apply to what uh you're seeking okay most importantly and this is more of an attorney advice have a hill that you can die upon what do I mean don't ask them 50 requests to admit 50 just keep it below 10 specific to prove to me my debt was assigned to you just that Discovery alone will probably settle the case if you get that far okay and having a heill to die upon means have it be important that you're gonna if you will waste the judge's time you're going to need to do a a motion compel have that in your head so how would you want the judge to receive your Discovery requests if you have a just a few to the point every judge would love you for that so they don't have to go through everything he'll say or she'll say oh this is a simple issue single issue does has the plaintiff met their burden of proof unlikely so don't worry yourself about proving or disproving un Justin Richmond just go for that small Jenga what trips this whole case up is standing and if they don't own the debt they don't have standing their burden approv is to provide you with the paper which 99 times out of 98 they can't do that that's my experience I hope I haven't spoken too much but you're in great shape no you have not and I wanted to um thank you so much I did I did have to go get a lawyer because I got a little nervous I was unsure of things um and I did give him all my paperwork and he did say well I don't know why you need me because you have everything that you need right here yes you thank you but I was I was a little nervous and that was the reason why I did um but I did all of the work so he was just like you did all the work here you know everything looks fine he said what do you need me so all right education eliminates anxiety it's a very you're doing great you're doing better you're so money you don't even know how money you are you're doing great all right we're gonna talk to a Santana now thank you I posted my question but so I am um Mr Parker we spoke uh last week I'm in the midst of a denovo case and I was recently told by the attorney that um they want to push it back because of their witness regarding this now okay so I'm gonna cut you off because I'm rude but I heard something I have to address immediately I want you to ask yourself what's the benefit to you if they push it back yeah if they can't get a witness that's fantastic don't have them don't help them okay her attorney can't get witness or the other attorney or or the posing councel can't get a witness I don't have a witness I'm representing myself it's the um oh TR the trust attorney that yeah they can't they can't prove anything so you you don't let them move that there's no benefit if they said move it and we'll give you XYZ fine but what's the benefit for you you're not there to help them they already they lied in the letter I received the letter from the court and it's their their letter to the court was asking to move the date because their witness was not available on the date and they said they tried to reach me but I was unre I did not respond which is not true they never tried to reach me so they proposed a couple of other dates yeah so they might get their way but it's treat it like politics don't let any go unresponded to right otherwise it sits out there as truth right so write a letter oh I I'm aware of what happened I've already I did not know this is going on whatever your position is this case is dragged on for two years now I don't want to add any more time I want this out of the Court's head I want this resolved and my thoughts by the way your honor is if they don't have the witness by this time please right so you may not win that but don't let stuff go and if I recall you now if I'm thinking are you the lady from New York New Jersey in education New Jersey correct yes okay so there's been a bunch of stuff there that they haven't done I would throw in a couple of sentences keep it polite and nice it's interesting that the other side says this because so far this happened I didn't get notice this happened I didn't get notice the make your case for what you and I were talking about previously about the due process that put you in this denovo as you call it status is that clear yes never miss a a chance to avoid someone telling you how to litigate your case that's number one and number two don't let anything go unanswered okay the judge will take as okay my other question was um I know you and I talk briefly about the the tiller but I we were going really fast with a lot of things T yes that's a Scott question go ahead ask Scott so Scott during this is a two plus year case and uh during Discovery as we went back and forth and I asked for proof of the debt the first time they sent it to me um the tiller summary sheet had X number uh X number X interest rate and I looked at the very very top and it had a date one date then when I further asked for further information they attached again another till a summary sheet the date on top had changed the amount the interest rate had changed by a tenth but it was nevertheless different and the amount as a result of the interest being different different everything else change additionally they attached four or five months of um monthly statements those monthly statements are different from both tiller summary sheets in their interest rate and in the monthly amount due Scott does she is something rotten in Denmark not necessarily what what was the loan for it was a personal loan was it like an auto loan or a Lending Club or web no it was a it was a personal loan did it have a variable rate of interest it did not it's a fixed rate interest well it's not unusual that you might have a a preliminary TAA and a in a final TAA because there might have been like a a period where you're applying for the law and this is particularly true like in mortgage lending where it takes a while to get approved so you might have a preliminary and then they might have a fin all at this was a this was online and it was a a personal loan that it wasn't a mortgage so you either eat immediately you get approved or you don't okay uh I don't believe Tila is a defense a Tila violation is a defense to a money owing debt and arresta violation is not a defense either it's just a separate counter claim that you might own you borrow the money the fact that maybe you've got desparate Tila statements now in their records doesn't mean that you didn't get a TAA statement that was accurate at the time and I don't believe that any of those I don't and I don't believe an sdcpa violation is a defense to a debt owing either none of these things are defenses they're all just counter claims what about what does that mean what does that mean what's that mean it means that you legitimately owe this debt they may also have made a mistake and done done their paperwork incorrectly they don't negate the they don't negate the debt they are not defenses they are claims it because there there may not be even contemporary in time right you got this money and you made payments and then you defaulted probably and now you owe this money the T violation was even before you even took the debt right it was something it was a documentation provided to you regarding your lent your your loan before you even sign off so I don't believe it's all that significant the only thing that's significant is what is the interest rate and doesn't the uh person that takes the debt claims to own it stand in the shoes of the original creditor when they get assigned the debt is this debt even assigned to anybody or is it still the original creditor so the way they present it to me is it is a tremendous long name so the Lend original creditor is Sofi the way the accus the the defendant is well I'm the defendant the plaintiff is presenting themselves it is SOI as attorney in fact for Wilmington Trust National Bank as trustee program C uh 2019-3 okay uh sounds s is still involved I'm sorry can you say that again it sounds like Sofi is the original creditor is still involved it sounds messy but I don't believe that Tila I guess you should ask them what interest rate do they think applies well how about the monthly statements you don't think that that's either that's something else that's alarming because on the tiller sheet on the tiller both tiller summary sheets in says uh an individual would get a quarter of a percent off if they allow it to be a direct debit from the account monthly when you do the math of the a quarter percent off from the the interest rate that's on Tilla it doesn't add up it adds up to it doesn't add it the interest rate that's on the monthly statements are dramatically different it is more than one and a half% of an interest rate difference on the monthly summary sheets that were submitted as evidence and I think it's evidence that they don't own the debt it seems like those papers were fabricated is is my assumption but I what your statements say did you save your statements I do not this is over two and a half years years ago do you have any statements that you can compare I do Point ah don't I only have what submitted and nothing that they submitted in terms of here's proof of the debt is consistent all right we'll play that up uh consistency is important in when you're claiming you own something and you have standing I think uh I think you're on to something there there's too many when it comes to money there's no accidents there's no coincidences and it's and it sounds like if the problems and and incorrect information favors them yes well it's I don't know if it favors them or not I just don't understand why would the monthly statement if the interest rate is 10 why is your monthly statement interest rate showing it's 11.5 or 12 it's that it's a dramatic the monthly statement and it says your your your monthly statement on Tilla says as an example it's 15.5 and you're going to pay you know x amount of dollars the monthly think that goes to owners let me say this these things don't happen for for no reason so either a you potentially incorrect that it's not a variable rate of interest B there's a default rate of interest that kicked in after some point in time that there was a default and therefore your rate changed um or there's some other issue in the original note or loan document that allows the interest rate to change and and I also want to say this and Brian May disagree with me is that there's a a constant tendency upon consumers to elevate form over substance okay um whereas you're you you're getting into the minutia of well this statement's not right or this doesn't look right to me well all the while this money was in fact borrowed and was in fact defaulted on all right so that's where Scott's coming from but he has a really good point he actually he is helping you he's giving you and this is you may want to try this let's try to say all right I think they did the right thing where's the supporting paperwork that allows them to charge a default interest or to create the interest you've probably got from then or on your own a copy of the loan agreement and does that have does it say if you default interest rates increase blah blah blah so try to justify what they're up to miss Sant these documents are incredibly boring sometimes right I I frankly got to read them four times on understand them okay so reread read and reread but his point is attack what's supporting them see if they're right and if he's giving you great advice because right well I I did I just want to say one more thing I did reread and reread because I couldn't believe there was such disparity the interest rate actually went down gentlemen it didn't increase because it default it and it says a fixed rate I read it I had other people read it I said am I missing something it's a fix rate at a higher percentage but the monthly statements dropped more than 1.6% difference all right the eror is in your favor so there's really no was much to argue about all right so I think there is uh we're going to move on to our next question okay Miss Santana okay thank you thank you very good great talk uh Aaron is I think it's you Aaron I'm I'm sorry that should have been lowered my fault are you good yeah I'm good thank you all right W that was some good questions I hope it's helpful does anybody else have any more questions I have one more question go for it so how do you find a good a good interne in in in Massachusetts how would I oh you'd Google local to if it's your mom's houses the court is in where the court is you obviously know where it is the town Google and okay here's the search term uh I I I guess I'd go um Massachusetts whatever the hometown is fdcpa attorney fdcpa attorney does that make sense yeah that makes sense because that's what they do all day long so and you may have an fdcpa um violation I I'm not sure saying you do but he he or she's going to take a look at that but that's what they do so I hope that helps thank you good luck thank you milon Scott any uh last words what PE you'd like people to know about how they can handle their debts if they come to you or anybody else don't procrastinate Reach Out be civil don't raise your voice and um just have a conversation uh Milton uh somebody has pointed out nicely the bar association has lawyer refer lawyer lawyer referral services in Boston so that's a organizing organization set up to do all the work for you just called they're promoting and that's the public policy of every bar is to make sure people get represented so they'd be more than happy to find you the attorney and if they're referring the attorney that means they trust the attorney then that's a little bit more trust for you does that make sense Milton yes it makes sense thank you there you go go so do the lawyer referral service in Boston excellent oh this is very good uh Scott you're great this is very nice I'd love to do maybe a podcast with you once a month or something okay and we kind of bued heads in a good way we saw things differently and that was the number one point of this there's always two sides to things and here's how the debt collector thinks about things not just what Parker thinks uh Parker doesn't see ownership of anything but that maybe Parker's got his head in the clouds but you presented you presented a very good uh others side of Defence approach and I thank you for your been fun and uh all everybody should know I rarely see Scott in the suit so that's how much he respects you guys so I that off then I think see you later oh look at everybody look in the back he's got a cat stand there oh how many cats do you have three oh all right um we'll leave now we'll talk to you guys later thank you very much for showing up and asking great questions see you Scott have a good weekend you're good you too bye-bye now stay out of the eat [Music]