Exploring Nicki Minaj's Super Bass Legacy

Welcome to 500 Greatest Songs, a podcast based on Rolling Stone's hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversial list. I'm Brittany Spanos. And I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great. This week we're diving into an absolute classic, Super Bass, by Nicki Minaj. The song of... had a lot of fun listening to on repeat like a whole week prior to this absolutely it places that number 426 on the list and it was released in 2011 on as a bonus track originally on the uk edition of pink friday which was nikki's debut album and then ended up becoming her first really, really, really massive hit as the lead artist. Yeah, this was a breakthrough hit until this. She was known to really to the general public mostly for features. But this was the song that told everybody who the the F she is. This is where most people heard her for the first time. And it shows her off in peak form too. So it's a perfect introduction song. Yeah, I mean, Nicki's rise the few years leading up to that was just like so incredible and so amazing. I mean, she had released a bunch of mixtapes. She released a trio of mixtapes that got a lot of people's attention and were sort of just like really showing off what made her so unique at that time, which is like she is one. A really excellent rapper. She is just like a formidable rapper, but also just like so funny. And so like she has like these great characters. She has like these like great one liners. Like, you know, she kind of was introducing her own cinematic universe almost of like, like voices and characters and and lines like, you know, it's like. like there's always like that joke about like her sons, like it's just like, you know, how many sons does she have? And like, it's like kind of like those types of things. Like she was introducing us with the trio of mixtapes, ended up getting Lil Wayne's attention after Be Me Up Scotty. And that ended up getting her signed to Lil Wayne's label. I mean, that kind of sets the tone for what will happen over the next like two years specifically. But I mean, still ongoing, but especially those kind of like. That first four years of Nikki's career was just kind of like hit after hit of constant Nikki in the zeitgeist moments. And just Nikki after Nikki, never shy about showing off her different persona. Remember when she was at the VMAs and it was this clip where it was all Roman all the way. And it was like, this is what. What she's doing with this spotlight moment is just concentrating on one character. Yeah, and even just thinking about how much, how many hits were packed into this time, and even looking back on it, it feels like decades and decades upon of like, iconic verses and iconic songs and one-liners from her. But I mean, a lot of these are just released week after week in a period of time where she was just churning out some of the most memorable moments in pop and rap history. And I mean, even just going back, the first two chart hits she had were... February 2010, which ended up being the same year that she would later release Pink Friday and its original incarnation, was Knockout with Lil Wayne and Up Out My Face remix with Mariah Carey were released like in the same couple of weeks in February of 2010, which is just like kind of insane to think like looking at that, I was just like, I cannot believe that is sort of that was the back to back of that time of like those two songs, which were sort of just like. began the snowball effect of like constant Nicki hit. Gives an idea of her range, right? Right, yeah. I mean, she was someone who was a go-to for a lot of people, still is, like in terms of no matter what genre, no matter like what style you're even, I mean, even like Knockout by Lil Wayne was a not typical Lil Wayne track. But even just kind of like, she was that person that if you needed a really great verse, whether you're a pop star or like a... rock band or like EDM artist, whatever, like she was someone that you can go to and she would really mesh very well with like whatever sounds you were doing and bring something completely different to it. Yeah, very dangerous as a feature, very dangerous to have her on your song, just because she's likely to dust you. I mean, even, you know, that was February 2010, when she had sort of this debut on the charts for the very first time. By October 2010 was That moment where she had this like really kind of incredible breakout moment where she was featured on Monster by Kanye West. And she is on the song with Kanye, with Jay-Z, with Rick Ross, with Bon Iver, which again, just sort of very 2010 moment that that was. But I mean, for Nicki to be in 2010 on a track with. Kanye and Jay-Z and Rick Ross and to completely steal the show on that song was like a mind-blowing moment I think for anyone any lover of rap music at that time to have Nicki Minaj be the person who was at that time still still a very very very new artist still like just kind of gained her bearings on the charts gained her bearings in this world was like pretty insane like that was I mean it's still like one of those talked about verses I think in in history. Totally it's it's a verse that introduced her and for Kanye to put her on that song like you said there's a murderer's row of talent on that song a very confident song in so many ways but but also just having all those people peaking on your own record. But as you said, the Nicki verse is one of the most famous verses of all time, and she really does steal the show. On a song that is where everybody is shining, everybody is doing an astounding job. job. It's a great track, but Nikki's presence, she just looms all over it. It's crazy because I feel like I'm, you know, much like many people who love this song and love Nikki, that is a verse that I'm like, I constantly just, I like sometimes it's just like a skip ahead because I really, really need to get to the Nikki verse because sometimes you just have like a, you just like really need to listen to it. And it's always funny where like, if I've done that multiple times in a row and I go back and I'm like, oh yeah, like the rest of the song is really good. It's like actually a really, really great song. And then you get to Nikki and you're like, like. Like, ah yes, but this is the best part of the song. Absolutely, it is the best part of the song, you're totally right. Yeah. But for her to go from this to the poppiness of super bass, opposite sides of her, and for those to come out roughly the same time, the same fall, and showing off opposite sides of what she was doing. Yeah, I mean, I think that was what surprised so many people, especially lovers of her mixtapes and loved already what she was doing prior to getting signed, prior to already starting to make moves on the charts. Like, I think people were really shocked at how much of a pop girl Nicki was, how much of a pop girl she wanted to be, and especially her singing and kind of that desire to kind of create these like bubblegum pop songs mixed with sort of the hardness of her verses and kind of find ways to blend that. I think people were genuinely very shocked at what Pink Friday ended up sounding like. You know, Pink Friday as like sort of like the imagery of it, the way that she really like leaned into. This kind of beginnings of that like EDM moment in pop music that we would like really really kind of hear even more in coming years but was very much influenced by Lady Gaga and sort of like early Katy Perry and and Kesha and kind of what was going on with with all those artists. I think a lot of people are very shocked at like the fact that she was able to very seamlessly blend what was happening in In pop with how much of like an incredible MC she was. Yeah, it's such an era in pop Yeah, very Pete Brittany era. Yeah This is a very defining era for me personally, but this album in particular and all of the songs that kind of came from Pink Friday and then her sophomore album, Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded, are just some of the best Nicki songs and best songs of that era. Pink Friday was totally different from what anybody was expecting. It's funny because that was a very long-awaited album that was an album that people had been waiting for. She had been building her rep, and it's rare for an artist making a debut album to already be a hit. be so famous and so acclaimed. And so people were really waiting for Pink Friday and it turned out to be very different. Yeah. Do you have a favorite Pink Friday song? It's gotta be Super Bass. Yeah, I obviously love Super Bass, but also Moment for Life. I love Moment for Life. It's a great one with Drake. And I think Fly is on this Pink Friday. I always get like, Pink Friday ended up becoming such a franchise for her. So of course there's Pink Friday. Then there was the deluxe. I mean, this is also like one of the more messy eras or beginning of a very messy era. era in the industry where it was kind of like you have an album then there's like the deluxe version of the album and like the like bonus version and then it's like kind of like okay which one which one are we doing right now but there was Pink Friday then Pink Friday and of the deluxe editions with Super Bass which ended up becoming one of the biggest hits from that Then Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded. Then of course Pink Friday 2 more recently. So the Pink Friday franchise has had a lot of bangers from it. It will never stop. It will never stop. And for Pink Friday to concentrate so much on her pop side, man, people... really waiting for a more hardcore sort of approach. And it was the time that Monster came out and for her to be so hardcore on that song. And then so many melodies, there was some disappointment at the time. at the time with the album, but it was just because it was so different from people had been expecting. And she really ended up leaning even more into it for, again, with Pink Friday, into Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded, which came out in 2012, that sort of back-to-back of those two albums where it's leaning so, so heavily into this EDM sound. I mean, she really kind of like, really went for it with all those because there was so much of that success with songs like Super Bass and Moment for Life, and then later ended up being like Pound the Alarm, Starships, like all those songs did so well. And ended up becoming like a really great defining era for Nicki. But she really leaned very, very heavily into it, which I admire that she did, even though it was that disappointment to kind of like the kind of rap heads who were like, this is not the Nicki. Mixtape Nicki, this is not the one that we thought was going to end up being the queen of rap, but she ended up doing it very seamlessly. She built up such a rep with the mixtapes, and the mixtapes really created this hardcore sort of legend for her. She really was already a legend when Pink Friday came out. And just that Pink Friday was so different from the mixtapes, the idea that Lil Wayne was involved tangentially, just historically, in the creation of her. reputation and and her early rep and I think like a lot of what she was really good at was like she had sort of the the albums that she was releasing at the time were so pop leaning and so kind of her really wanting to compete with the big pop stars that era again like the the gagas and the katies of that of that time but um you know then she would churn out all these incredible featured verses i mean this is like such a big part of that nikki lore and that nikki appeal was like she has had such a great history of working with so many artists like she would work with like so many of these like excellent rappers like put out like like the hardest verse on the entire record and like and then be like and and here's Starships. Totally. I love those mixtapes, those early mixtapes. Yeah. And she was so raw, often very filthy. Yeah. And so innovative, like you said, and an amazing rapper from the get-go. Yeah. And the personality that she built, I mean, going back to them, there's still a lot of that Barbie obsession, that Harajuku obsession. Yeah. And I mean, Super Bass, of course, as its own song, that ended up being released. officially as a single in April of 2011. And it was a sleeper hit. It ends up taking a few months to actually really, really rise on the charts and end up hitting number three on the Billboard Hot 100. It was her highest ranking song as a lead artist at the time. And I mean, I think that one is such a great example of that balance of like, the verses are incredible. Like it's really peak kind of Nicki rapping. She's putting on like the British voice, the like Roman kind of tease of Roman in the in super bass, but it also has like her showing off. off her singing. She's singing a bit with Esther Dean, who co-wrote the song, and it's really kind of showcasing that really delicate balance that she was toying with, at times very indelicately, like in terms of how she'd approach it. But, you know, that really great sort of Nikki dual dynamic of like, here's like her singing pop girl playing an incredible hook. like one of the catchiest hooks of a time known for catchy hook with her showcasing that she is a remarkable rapper with an incredible and very unique flow that would end up being imitated for many years to come still and find that balance on the song. The balance is amazing. It's really a perfect sort of sizzle reel for everything that she could do and everything that she wanted to do. Very different from what she'd done earlier in her rapper career when she was just building up her rap on the mix. tapes. This one shows the different sort of range that she does. I love when she uses the English accent. I love it. The English accent on that song is one of my favorite moments. She's really got a thing for American guys. Yeah. And you know, I believe I believe she's British. You can't tell me differently. But yeah, I mean, she even just like the way the song starts out, there is that sort of like very sort of dreamy, sparkly, like bubblegummy kind of like synth little flair that starts it off. And then she kind of comes in like much harder. harder than you anticipate on this song. Like she kind of comes in, she's like, this one's for the boys with the booming system, like that a little bit more of that edge into it on top of this like very delicate, like sweet and kind of like airy type of little riff that happens there. Yeah, the riff like, and it leads to that chorus, which is just such an iconic chorus, just in terms of The poppiness of it and just the way it repeats the sort of the pop side of Pink Friday. Yeah. Yet with such hardcore rapping in the middle. Yeah. I guess like in the years since Pinkprint, Nicki has had like a pretty like divisive, maybe we'll use that. that word, career and sort of public image over the years. I'm curious kind of like what that means for the future of Nicki Minaj. As you said, you're a Barb. And for her to sort of take the turn that she took, in many ways, the pink print is sort of... sort of the peak when she was, you know, a tormented genius. And what she's done the last four years has pissed a lot of people off. Yeah, I mean, even starting with Queen, like, you know, that release was, it just had like a lot of like weird setbacks. And I mean, granted, this was like a kind of a weird time in music releasing, right? I remember like Beyonce and Lemonade, like going on title was like kind of botched rollout of that album in a... really weird way and it was just like a weird time for digital releases where I think a lot of industries and streaming services were still getting their bearings with how to do that that it was just like that rollout was a little bit weird she's been in a lot of feuds with other specifically female rappers that I think has left a really bad taste in people's mouths and that's that for me has kind of been sort of a weird thing to sort of see develop because she is so iconic and I do very much see her as the queen of rap but it it sucks to see her kind of be in constant fights with younger with younger women who have all said at different times that they are a big fan of her you know of course a lot of the stuff with her husband and her brother and being you know convicted predators really also sucks like it's just you know her relation to them her kind of caping for a lot of men like them And then again, entering into feuds with young women who have looked up to her and owe a lot to her. It's made my relationship with her music very complicated over the years. But yeah, I don't know. I think it hasn't slowed down a lot of a really big fandom. A lot of her tours have been selling out. She's had a really, really massive run with her Pink Friday 2 tour and kind of has announced even more dates and all that. So, of course, it's still Nicki Minaj and she's still one of the best-selling artists of all time. It is sort of a confusing place to be, especially because it's like kind of stuff that people usually do when they're in their like 70s. You know, like when artists are kind of like really do not care anymore. And they're kind of like, well, like, you know, this new music sucks and led to a lot of like kind of weird relationships for her in the industry. And kind of really confusing, almost kind of seemingly like now like isolated place in the music industry that Nicki is where. that wasn't the case for a really long time. Well, really in a world of her own. Yeah. I mean, musically and in every other way. Yeah. So I'm wondering what that will mean for the future. Because, I mean, I think a lot about the time that she sort of came up as an artist. I mean, this was every genre of music sucks for women. But rap has especially been really, really hard for a lot of women to break through in and to kind of have a lot of success in. Even with Super Bass, that was like the highest charting single for a female rapper since Work It at that time. Wow. and Pink Friday even becoming like the second most successful album by a female rapper since Miseducation like you know there's a lot of barriers for every woman in rap to kind of break through in and so you know it's been really confusing to kind of see that sort of her relationships with other women in the genre sort of as it developed over the course of the last like decade but musically like she's still kind of the queen of rap to me. And after the break we have Manka Percante to talk about Super Bass. We are joined by Rolling Stone staff writer, Malkifer Conte. Malkifer, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Again, a round two. Super happy to be back. This time in person. I know. The stars aligned. Yeah. Thank you. Well, I wanted to hear about sort of the first time you encountered, I'm sure it was the same way that everyone else encountered Nicki Minaj, but sort of your kind of experience kind of watching those early years of her really blowing up, leading up to Super Bass. Yeah. I mean, my My first real, real memory of Nicki Minaj is riding the bus with who is now my best friend and has been my best friend for 18 years. And we would blast Itty Bitty Piggy and I Get Crazy and we would rap it. And because like on the bus, we would just kind of trade music. I can't even imagine what we were listening to music on iPods. Yeah. Like because I wouldn't have had a physical mixtape. So probably on like our iPod. She was just so weird. Like, the whole spiel, I win, you lose on Itty Bitty Piggy, like, we knew that from top to bottom. And I think it was just, like, it was really exciting. And, of course, like, I didn't grow up in an era where there were women rappers that were popular at all. And so to really watch her from the ground up build and, like, really change the course of, like, music has been really cool. Yeah, I mean, there was something kind of surreal happening in those years where it was like... Especially for young women who are listening to her, like this was just like someone who was like, you knew all the lyrics, you were learning it, but also like boys listen to her too, like there was like a lot with that. My best friend's a guy. Yeah, like it was just like this kind of... big phenomenon happening in real time as she was blowing up and as it was happening. Yeah, and I think one of the things too, and I think I haven't actually thought about like men's relationship with Nicki Minaj. That's a really interesting point because I was listening to I Get Crazy on the way here and hearing Wayne and how much synergy they had and her being able to like come up under him at the time where like Wayne was of course like the hottest he had ever been around that time. I wonder like how much that had to do with how universal she became. Because eventually she was on every song. She was like the T-Pain of music eventually. Yeah, I mean, even just that dichotomy too of her as a rapper and her as someone who could be a really great pop star, which is what Super Bass sort of helped solidify in so many ways. Tell me about kind of watching that dichotomy that she was really playing with at that time and able to really make such an important part of who she was as a star. Yeah, I remember the reaction. reactions around Super Bass being really mixed, right? Because it's like, this is this hardcore rapper, this is this girl from New York that Wayne just plucked out of her neighborhood. What is she doing in this pink wig? Like Lil Dance and Lil Shorts and like making such poppy music. But it's like you can see such a through line from that to like Megan and Sweetest Pie and Cardi and Maroon 5 or like every other rapper that Maroon 5 has like put on a song. Like she really opened this really interesting door for like Rap, and particularly rap by like women, to be pop music. Yeah. And to like play with like more traditional like Max Martin-y like pop sounds. Yeah. Yeah, and there was like a coexisting happening too of those two sides of her where like she was someone who was very much solidify yourself as like one of the greatest rappers of all time and someone who can like really you know just like have like this incredible flow but also could make like one of the catchiest top 40 songs that you'd ever hear. Yeah it's really catchy. I feel like I can't quite remember what my reaction was to Super Bass. I don't think that I loved it. I think I grew to like it a lot more. And the way that like you grow to like like Party in the USA. It's just like one of those songs that like we all know and like can like bring us joy and we can kind of commune around. I think I probably thought it was kind of silly when it came out. But even when I listen to it now, it's like she's really really rapping on it. And it's it's it's fun. Like just because it's a pop song, she didn't like lose her edge. And she seemed to have always wanted to be a singer. Like I was even listening to Pink Friday too. She does so much singing on that. That seems to be like really important to her. So it seems like she always wanted to blend those. those two things. Yeah, for sure. I'm curious what you thought of Pink Friday in general when it came out, because it was really disconcertingly pop. The whole album was so pop, it was so different from what people have been expecting and hoping for. Yeah, I am one of those people that give Pink Friday its flowers because I know how important Nicki is to hip hop culture. And I know that and that being her like mainstream breakthrough is really important. I don't think it is that great of an an album. I think that Nicki does not actually make very good whole albums. There is this phenomenon in rap across men and women where some people can make incredible songs, but like an album requires like movement and storytelling and curation and like we're making really hard choices. And I feel like it's mostly in the beat selection on Pink Friday that I'm just like something about it is a little too cheesy, it's like a little too corny, but again like the Nicki that I'm like most drawn to is like the I Get Crazy, Itty Bitty Piggy, like even Even like FTCU on Pink Friday, everybody with Lil Uzi. I like when there is a little more hardness to it, or just like a little less corn. I don't know really how to explain it. And that might just be a personal preference, but I've really, really tried with Nicki albums and I can always find more than a handful of really great songs, but the whole units to me are never what I feel like she could be capable of. Even Pinkprint? Yeah. I don't have like a Nicki album that I like love. My favorite Nicki album so far is Pink Friday too. And even that is like five songs too long. Wow. I wasn't ready for that. Yeah. Yeah. When people were like, I don't know about this, I was like, this is my favorite thing. But I think it's because she felt so with the times. And maybe the times that Pink Friday was with was whatever was happening in pop music, which maybe I wasn't that attuned to at that time. It was very connected to that sort of Kesha type of early Gaga, early Katy Perry kind of sound that was happening. I'm curious, I guess the contrast, some of your favorite Nicki songs or verses, I feel like she's someone who... I have favorite songs of hers, but her verses, especially on other people, when she's a guest verse or anything, remixes, things like that are just so striking. Of course, the monster verse is one of the most famous guest verses maybe of all time. And she has, and that's one of, I don't even know how, like 100, like one of 100 incredible, just a really excellent kind of feature she's had. So I'm curious, what are some of your favorite Nicki, I guess we could just call them moments. Nicki moments. I love her on my Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, the intro, the fairytale intro. Her voice, her character was just so perfect for that and the lush production under it. It's one of the things that makes that album I think so elevated. Just all the thought put into it and finding Nicki to get into that rhythm for it. And that's not even her really, really rapping. She's just kinda playing around there. It's funny, I'm trying to think about the older things, but it's like I'm thinking about her on Pound Town remix with Sexy. I see red. That was great. Yeah. I think that, and that's the thing. When I feel like Nicki is keeping up with the times, particularly in rap, but still keeping her own unique bend to it is when I really, really like her. Yeah. Big Sean ass remix was like, that was. Oh, yeah. It's so good. Yeah. I think of that as one of the moments where she was trying to fit in with the song. She wasn't trying to totally wash the song, but that. That's a really good one. That might be my favorite Nicki verse of all. That's a really, really good one. I love. I'm a big fan of her Trey Songz collaboration. Oh, Bottoms Up? Bottoms Up is very good. I love that. That's a good one. It could have been made for you and by you. Yeah, I love. I love her verse on Bottoms Up. I love her verse on Lil Freak by Usher, especially the Everybody Loves Raymond line. Something that I- would just yell constantly. That's a good one. That's a good one. That is a great one. That's an all-timer. Yeah. I didn't used to, but now that I listen to it, I like her verse on Motorsport a lot. Yes. I think that was a very tense moment. There was already tensions kind of brewing between she and Cardi before everything really, really blew up. They're trying to collaborate. Cardi has an outstanding verse. I love her calling herself the Trap Selena. But now I'm thinking about how Nicki kind of creeps on it. like how like kind of intimidating she is on it. Like I really like her attitude in that verse a lot more now. And I think that's like a pretty iconic moment for her too, I think. Yeah, I mean I think the thing with Nicki and something you brought up a couple times is like the characters and sort of that mix of like she is very, very funny and she's very quick with her humor and she also is like, she's a theater kid who like is very good at like embodying Roman and embodying like all these like different kind of personas in these songs. And tell me about that. Tell me about how that kind of set Nicki apart and also kind of evolved over the course of her career. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things, you know, like earlier when I was like, she was so weird. It was one of the things that made her weird, but also then made her really interesting. The Harajuku Barbie character was really interesting to me, her calling herself that. The Monica Lewinsky references and the Nicki Lewinsky character, and that being about her relationship to Lil Wayne. You know how everything is memes now? And I think artists are really encouraged. You can see like artists. being encouraged, like Victoria Monet does as well, to like take memes and make them a part of their own body of work. And it's kind of like she kind of did that with like things that weren't like as well known. But you know like Gwen Stefani previously did like the whole Harajuku thing, so it's kind of pulling that in. There's a political reference there. I so I feel like it may be in a weird way it's kind of like a precursor to that. Yeah I feel like right now like the Young Money crew, I mean especially Nikki and Drake are in such like a weird kind of moment. A kind of make or break. I guess kind of legacy moment which is kind of surreal to even think about you know the like going just you know 14 15 years ago and just kind of that sort of imperial phase that lasted I think longer than I think anyone anticipated that it would. You know Nikki of course is still she has a massive tour I mean she still has like the Barb's forever but it has been sort of like an interesting few years I guess and sort of her career and like kind of her interaction with a lot of younger artists specifically. I mean tell me kind of where that stands for you now and sort of how you view Nikki in the the present day, especially being a fan of Pink Friday too and kind of her music still kind of being, having like really great moments and things like that. Like where do you sort of stand in sort of your Barb fandom? Yeah, I'm really disappointed. And I try to not let that take away from the things that she's accomplished in my mind. Like I never wanna like diminish her talent in my mind or her impact. But I do think that, you know, it's like Dark Knight. Live long enough to see yourself become the villain thing, you know or die and be a hero and maybe that those 14 years were too Long. Yeah, but I think that's kind of what we're seeing happen And it's funny because right like one of the first I think like OG Nikki beefs was with Kim And it seemed like there was this air that like this older woman Was not embracing Nikki or Nikki felt like she wasn't embraced or there was just this like dissonance between Generations that she is like recreating. Yeah with so many young women in rap And it's like everybody who comes into the game sites are as as an influence. It's like, even after they fall out lotto, like, other folks, Ice Spice, even like, you know, she says that they're cool, but like, you know, texts leaked where she was having a hard time processing their relationship. Like, no one has ever took away, I think, from what she's accomplished. But yeah, it is really disappointing to see. And then, I mean, I think some of like, the personal choices too, in her like, personal life, have been disappointing to see. I read this really interesting essay in the New York Times Music Magazine many years ago. The writer was, was predicting that this generation of stars would have to fall. But this is maybe like 2017 that I read this, something like that, I was in grad school, maybe 2018. And I was like, this person was basically arguing Beyonce and Drake and Kanye and Nicki, these people can't all be who they are forever. And I was like, well who's gonna take their place? That proved true for many years after, but I think that person was right and we're starting to see because there's so much music, there's so much. there's so many different types of women in rap. There's so many different attitudes and styles and regions that are reflected in particularly women's rap that we don't have to hold onto someone, particularly if they're not nice. You know? Yeah, I mean something that came up for me in rap both in the Missy episode and earlier in this episode is just how many limited spaces were allowed for women in rap music and kind of this Nikki kind of even having to come up in a time where it was sort of just like you have to kind of claw forward to that space and to be like like seen as equivalent to you know the Kanye's and Jay-Z's at the moment you know it's like I guess like part of me like feels for that in a way but also I feel like I stand very much in the same place where you are where it's like you know yeah I feel like just because you can understand the origins of something or you can empathize with the feeling doesn't necessarily mean that you think it's right and I think that's where it is right you know it's like yes you did have to claw and climb your way to the top but it's not like that and none of I think the most pop and rap girls want to be that way lotto and flow Millie and Meg are together all the time. You know, sometimes it seems like some relationships here and there have like dissipated, but it's not always breaking out into these like catastrophic fights or like beefs all the time. I think that there is an aura in music, particularly in women and rap of like, we have no reason to tear each other down. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me in person. It's so fun. Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone. and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted by me, Brittany Spanos, and Rob Sheffield. Executive produced by Gus Wenner, Jason Vine, Alex Dale, and Christian Horde. And produced by Jesse Cannon with music supervision by Eric Seiler.

This week we're diving into an absolute classic, Super Bass, by Nicki Minaj. The song of... had a lot of fun listening to on repeat like a whole week prior to this absolutely it places that number 426 on the list and it was released in 2011 on as a bonus track originally on the uk edition of pink friday which was nikki's debut album and then ended up becoming her first really, really, really massive hit as the lead artist. Yeah, this was a breakthrough hit until this. She was known to really to the general public mostly for features.

But this was the song that told everybody who the the F she is. This is where most people heard her for the first time. And it shows her off in peak form too. So it's a perfect introduction song. Yeah, I mean, Nicki's rise the few years leading up to that was just like so incredible and so amazing.

I mean, she had released a bunch of mixtapes. She released a trio of mixtapes that got a lot of people's attention and were sort of just like really showing off what made her so unique at that time, which is like she is one. A really excellent rapper.

She is just like a formidable rapper, but also just like so funny. And so like she has like these great characters. She has like these like great one liners.

Like, you know, she kind of was introducing her own cinematic universe almost of like, like voices and characters and and lines like, you know, it's like. like there's always like that joke about like her sons, like it's just like, you know, how many sons does she have? And like, it's like kind of like those types of things.

Like she was introducing us with the trio of mixtapes, ended up getting Lil Wayne's attention after Be Me Up Scotty. And that ended up getting her signed to Lil Wayne's label. I mean, that kind of sets the tone for what will happen over the next like two years specifically. But I mean, still ongoing, but especially those kind of like.

That first four years of Nikki's career was just kind of like hit after hit of constant Nikki in the zeitgeist moments. And just Nikki after Nikki, never shy about showing off her different persona. Remember when she was at the VMAs and it was this clip where it was all Roman all the way.

And it was like, this is what. What she's doing with this spotlight moment is just concentrating on one character. Yeah, and even just thinking about how much, how many hits were packed into this time, and even looking back on it, it feels like decades and decades upon of like, iconic verses and iconic songs and one-liners from her.

But I mean, a lot of these are just released week after week in a period of time where she was just churning out some of the most memorable moments in pop and rap history. And I mean, even just going back, the first two chart hits she had were... February 2010, which ended up being the same year that she would later release Pink Friday and its original incarnation, was Knockout with Lil Wayne and Up Out My Face remix with Mariah Carey were released like in the same couple of weeks in February of 2010, which is just like kind of insane to think like looking at that, I was just like, I cannot believe that is sort of that was the back to back of that time of like those two songs, which were sort of just like.

began the snowball effect of like constant Nicki hit. Gives an idea of her range, right? Right, yeah. I mean, she was someone who was a go-to for a lot of people, still is, like in terms of no matter what genre, no matter like what style you're even, I mean, even like Knockout by Lil Wayne was a not typical Lil Wayne track. But even just kind of like, she was that person that if you needed a really great verse, whether you're a pop star or like a...

rock band or like EDM artist, whatever, like she was someone that you can go to and she would really mesh very well with like whatever sounds you were doing and bring something completely different to it. Yeah, very dangerous as a feature, very dangerous to have her on your song, just because she's likely to dust you. I mean, even, you know, that was February 2010, when she had sort of this debut on the charts for the very first time. By October 2010 was That moment where she had this like really kind of incredible breakout moment where she was featured on Monster by Kanye West.

And she is on the song with Kanye, with Jay-Z, with Rick Ross, with Bon Iver, which again, just sort of very 2010 moment that that was. But I mean, for Nicki to be in 2010 on a track with. Kanye and Jay-Z and Rick Ross and to completely steal the show on that song was like a mind-blowing moment I think for anyone any lover of rap music at that time to have Nicki Minaj be the person who was at that time still still a very very very new artist still like just kind of gained her bearings on the charts gained her bearings in this world was like pretty insane like that was I mean it's still like one of those talked about verses I think in in history.

Totally it's it's a verse that introduced her and for Kanye to put her on that song like you said there's a murderer's row of talent on that song a very confident song in so many ways but but also just having all those people peaking on your own record. But as you said, the Nicki verse is one of the most famous verses of all time, and she really does steal the show. On a song that is where everybody is shining, everybody is doing an astounding job. job. It's a great track, but Nikki's presence, she just looms all over it.

It's crazy because I feel like I'm, you know, much like many people who love this song and love Nikki, that is a verse that I'm like, I constantly just, I like sometimes it's just like a skip ahead because I really, really need to get to the Nikki verse because sometimes you just have like a, you just like really need to listen to it. And it's always funny where like, if I've done that multiple times in a row and I go back and I'm like, oh yeah, like the rest of the song is really good. It's like actually a really, really great song. And then you get to Nikki and you're like, like. Like, ah yes, but this is the best part of the song.

Absolutely, it is the best part of the song, you're totally right. Yeah. But for her to go from this to the poppiness of super bass, opposite sides of her, and for those to come out roughly the same time, the same fall, and showing off opposite sides of what she was doing. Yeah, I mean, I think that was what surprised so many people, especially lovers of her mixtapes and loved already what she was doing prior to getting signed, prior to already starting to make moves on the charts. Like, I think people were really shocked at how much of a pop girl Nicki was, how much of a pop girl she wanted to be, and especially her singing and kind of that desire to kind of create these like bubblegum pop songs mixed with sort of the hardness of her verses and kind of find ways to blend that.

I think people were genuinely very shocked at what Pink Friday ended up sounding like. You know, Pink Friday as like sort of like the imagery of it, the way that she really like leaned into. This kind of beginnings of that like EDM moment in pop music that we would like really really kind of hear even more in coming years but was very much influenced by Lady Gaga and sort of like early Katy Perry and and Kesha and kind of what was going on with with all those artists. I think a lot of people are very shocked at like the fact that she was able to very seamlessly blend what was happening in In pop with how much of like an incredible MC she was.

Yeah, it's such an era in pop Yeah, very Pete Brittany era. Yeah This is a very defining era for me personally, but this album in particular and all of the songs that kind of came from Pink Friday and then her sophomore album, Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded, are just some of the best Nicki songs and best songs of that era. Pink Friday was totally different from what anybody was expecting.

It's funny because that was a very long-awaited album that was an album that people had been waiting for. She had been building her rep, and it's rare for an artist making a debut album to already be a hit. be so famous and so acclaimed.

And so people were really waiting for Pink Friday and it turned out to be very different. Yeah. Do you have a favorite Pink Friday song? It's gotta be Super Bass. Yeah, I obviously love Super Bass, but also Moment for Life.

I love Moment for Life. It's a great one with Drake. And I think Fly is on this Pink Friday. I always get like, Pink Friday ended up becoming such a franchise for her. So of course there's Pink Friday.

Then there was the deluxe. I mean, this is also like one of the more messy eras or beginning of a very messy era. era in the industry where it was kind of like you have an album then there's like the deluxe version of the album and like the like bonus version and then it's like kind of like okay which one which one are we doing right now but there was Pink Friday then Pink Friday and of the deluxe editions with Super Bass which ended up becoming one of the biggest hits from that Then Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded.

Then of course Pink Friday 2 more recently. So the Pink Friday franchise has had a lot of bangers from it. It will never stop. It will never stop. And for Pink Friday to concentrate so much on her pop side, man, people...

really waiting for a more hardcore sort of approach. And it was the time that Monster came out and for her to be so hardcore on that song. And then so many melodies, there was some disappointment at the time. at the time with the album, but it was just because it was so different from people had been expecting.

And she really ended up leaning even more into it for, again, with Pink Friday, into Pink Friday, Roman Reloaded, which came out in 2012, that sort of back-to-back of those two albums where it's leaning so, so heavily into this EDM sound. I mean, she really kind of like, really went for it with all those because there was so much of that success with songs like Super Bass and Moment for Life, and then later ended up being like Pound the Alarm, Starships, like all those songs did so well. And ended up becoming like a really great defining era for Nicki. But she really leaned very, very heavily into it, which I admire that she did, even though it was that disappointment to kind of like the kind of rap heads who were like, this is not the Nicki.

Mixtape Nicki, this is not the one that we thought was going to end up being the queen of rap, but she ended up doing it very seamlessly. She built up such a rep with the mixtapes, and the mixtapes really created this hardcore sort of legend for her. She really was already a legend when Pink Friday came out. And just that Pink Friday was so different from the mixtapes, the idea that Lil Wayne was involved tangentially, just historically, in the creation of her. reputation and and her early rep and I think like a lot of what she was really good at was like she had sort of the the albums that she was releasing at the time were so pop leaning and so kind of her really wanting to compete with the big pop stars that era again like the the gagas and the katies of that of that time but um you know then she would churn out all these incredible featured verses i mean this is like such a big part of that nikki lore and that nikki appeal was like she has had such a great history of working with so many artists like she would work with like so many of these like excellent rappers like put out like like the hardest verse on the entire record and like and then be like and and here's Starships.

Totally. I love those mixtapes, those early mixtapes. Yeah.

And she was so raw, often very filthy. Yeah. And so innovative, like you said, and an amazing rapper from the get-go.

Yeah. And the personality that she built, I mean, going back to them, there's still a lot of that Barbie obsession, that Harajuku obsession. Yeah.

And I mean, Super Bass, of course, as its own song, that ended up being released. officially as a single in April of 2011. And it was a sleeper hit. It ends up taking a few months to actually really, really rise on the charts and end up hitting number three on the Billboard Hot 100. It was her highest ranking song as a lead artist at the time.

And I mean, I think that one is such a great example of that balance of like, the verses are incredible. Like it's really peak kind of Nicki rapping. She's putting on like the British voice, the like Roman kind of tease of Roman in the in super bass, but it also has like her showing off.

off her singing. She's singing a bit with Esther Dean, who co-wrote the song, and it's really kind of showcasing that really delicate balance that she was toying with, at times very indelicately, like in terms of how she'd approach it. But, you know, that really great sort of Nikki dual dynamic of like, here's like her singing pop girl playing an incredible hook.

like one of the catchiest hooks of a time known for catchy hook with her showcasing that she is a remarkable rapper with an incredible and very unique flow that would end up being imitated for many years to come still and find that balance on the song. The balance is amazing. It's really a perfect sort of sizzle reel for everything that she could do and everything that she wanted to do. Very different from what she'd done earlier in her rapper career when she was just building up her rap on the mix. tapes.

This one shows the different sort of range that she does. I love when she uses the English accent. I love it.

The English accent on that song is one of my favorite moments. She's really got a thing for American guys. Yeah. And you know, I believe I believe she's British. You can't tell me differently.

But yeah, I mean, she even just like the way the song starts out, there is that sort of like very sort of dreamy, sparkly, like bubblegummy kind of like synth little flair that starts it off. And then she kind of comes in like much harder. harder than you anticipate on this song. Like she kind of comes in, she's like, this one's for the boys with the booming system, like that a little bit more of that edge into it on top of this like very delicate, like sweet and kind of like airy type of little riff that happens there.

Yeah, the riff like, and it leads to that chorus, which is just such an iconic chorus, just in terms of The poppiness of it and just the way it repeats the sort of the pop side of Pink Friday. Yeah. Yet with such hardcore rapping in the middle.

Yeah. I guess like in the years since Pinkprint, Nicki has had like a pretty like divisive, maybe we'll use that. that word, career and sort of public image over the years.

I'm curious kind of like what that means for the future of Nicki Minaj. As you said, you're a Barb. And for her to sort of take the turn that she took, in many ways, the pink print is sort of... sort of the peak when she was, you know, a tormented genius.

And what she's done the last four years has pissed a lot of people off. Yeah, I mean, even starting with Queen, like, you know, that release was, it just had like a lot of like weird setbacks. And I mean, granted, this was like a kind of a weird time in music releasing, right? I remember like Beyonce and Lemonade, like going on title was like kind of botched rollout of that album in a...

really weird way and it was just like a weird time for digital releases where I think a lot of industries and streaming services were still getting their bearings with how to do that that it was just like that rollout was a little bit weird she's been in a lot of feuds with other specifically female rappers that I think has left a really bad taste in people's mouths and that's that for me has kind of been sort of a weird thing to sort of see develop because she is so iconic and I do very much see her as the queen of rap but it it sucks to see her kind of be in constant fights with younger with younger women who have all said at different times that they are a big fan of her you know of course a lot of the stuff with her husband and her brother and being you know convicted predators really also sucks like it's just you know her relation to them her kind of caping for a lot of men like them And then again, entering into feuds with young women who have looked up to her and owe a lot to her. It's made my relationship with her music very complicated over the years. But yeah, I don't know. I think it hasn't slowed down a lot of a really big fandom. A lot of her tours have been selling out.

She's had a really, really massive run with her Pink Friday 2 tour and kind of has announced even more dates and all that. So, of course, it's still Nicki Minaj and she's still one of the best-selling artists of all time. It is sort of a confusing place to be, especially because it's like kind of stuff that people usually do when they're in their like 70s.

You know, like when artists are kind of like really do not care anymore. And they're kind of like, well, like, you know, this new music sucks and led to a lot of like kind of weird relationships for her in the industry. And kind of really confusing, almost kind of seemingly like now like isolated place in the music industry that Nicki is where. that wasn't the case for a really long time.

Well, really in a world of her own. Yeah. I mean, musically and in every other way.

Yeah. So I'm wondering what that will mean for the future. Because, I mean, I think a lot about the time that she sort of came up as an artist.

I mean, this was every genre of music sucks for women. But rap has especially been really, really hard for a lot of women to break through in and to kind of have a lot of success in. Even with Super Bass, that was like the highest charting single for a female rapper since Work It at that time. Wow.

and Pink Friday even becoming like the second most successful album by a female rapper since Miseducation like you know there's a lot of barriers for every woman in rap to kind of break through in and so you know it's been really confusing to kind of see that sort of her relationships with other women in the genre sort of as it developed over the course of the last like decade but musically like she's still kind of the queen of rap to me. And after the break we have Manka Percante to talk about Super Bass. We are joined by Rolling Stone staff writer, Malkifer Conte.

Malkifer, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Again, a round two. Super happy to be back.

This time in person. I know. The stars aligned. Yeah.

Thank you. Well, I wanted to hear about sort of the first time you encountered, I'm sure it was the same way that everyone else encountered Nicki Minaj, but sort of your kind of experience kind of watching those early years of her really blowing up, leading up to Super Bass. Yeah. I mean, my My first real, real memory of Nicki Minaj is riding the bus with who is now my best friend and has been my best friend for 18 years.

And we would blast Itty Bitty Piggy and I Get Crazy and we would rap it. And because like on the bus, we would just kind of trade music. I can't even imagine what we were listening to music on iPods.

Yeah. Like because I wouldn't have had a physical mixtape. So probably on like our iPod. She was just so weird.

Like, the whole spiel, I win, you lose on Itty Bitty Piggy, like, we knew that from top to bottom. And I think it was just, like, it was really exciting. And, of course, like, I didn't grow up in an era where there were women rappers that were popular at all. And so to really watch her from the ground up build and, like, really change the course of, like, music has been really cool. Yeah, I mean, there was something kind of surreal happening in those years where it was like...

Especially for young women who are listening to her, like this was just like someone who was like, you knew all the lyrics, you were learning it, but also like boys listen to her too, like there was like a lot with that. My best friend's a guy. Yeah, like it was just like this kind of... big phenomenon happening in real time as she was blowing up and as it was happening.

Yeah, and I think one of the things too, and I think I haven't actually thought about like men's relationship with Nicki Minaj. That's a really interesting point because I was listening to I Get Crazy on the way here and hearing Wayne and how much synergy they had and her being able to like come up under him at the time where like Wayne was of course like the hottest he had ever been around that time. I wonder like how much that had to do with how universal she became.

Because eventually she was on every song. She was like the T-Pain of music eventually. Yeah, I mean, even just that dichotomy too of her as a rapper and her as someone who could be a really great pop star, which is what Super Bass sort of helped solidify in so many ways. Tell me about kind of watching that dichotomy that she was really playing with at that time and able to really make such an important part of who she was as a star. Yeah, I remember the reaction.

reactions around Super Bass being really mixed, right? Because it's like, this is this hardcore rapper, this is this girl from New York that Wayne just plucked out of her neighborhood. What is she doing in this pink wig?

Like Lil Dance and Lil Shorts and like making such poppy music. But it's like you can see such a through line from that to like Megan and Sweetest Pie and Cardi and Maroon 5 or like every other rapper that Maroon 5 has like put on a song. Like she really opened this really interesting door for like Rap, and particularly rap by like women, to be pop music. Yeah. And to like play with like more traditional like Max Martin-y like pop sounds.

Yeah. Yeah, and there was like a coexisting happening too of those two sides of her where like she was someone who was very much solidify yourself as like one of the greatest rappers of all time and someone who can like really you know just like have like this incredible flow but also could make like one of the catchiest top 40 songs that you'd ever hear. Yeah it's really catchy. I feel like I can't quite remember what my reaction was to Super Bass.

I don't think that I loved it. I think I grew to like it a lot more. And the way that like you grow to like like Party in the USA.

It's just like one of those songs that like we all know and like can like bring us joy and we can kind of commune around. I think I probably thought it was kind of silly when it came out. But even when I listen to it now, it's like she's really really rapping on it. And it's it's it's fun. Like just because it's a pop song, she didn't like lose her edge.

And she seemed to have always wanted to be a singer. Like I was even listening to Pink Friday too. She does so much singing on that.

That seems to be like really important to her. So it seems like she always wanted to blend those. those two things. Yeah, for sure. I'm curious what you thought of Pink Friday in general when it came out, because it was really disconcertingly pop.

The whole album was so pop, it was so different from what people have been expecting and hoping for. Yeah, I am one of those people that give Pink Friday its flowers because I know how important Nicki is to hip hop culture. And I know that and that being her like mainstream breakthrough is really important. I don't think it is that great of an an album.

I think that Nicki does not actually make very good whole albums. There is this phenomenon in rap across men and women where some people can make incredible songs, but like an album requires like movement and storytelling and curation and like we're making really hard choices. And I feel like it's mostly in the beat selection on Pink Friday that I'm just like something about it is a little too cheesy, it's like a little too corny, but again like the Nicki that I'm like most drawn to is like the I Get Crazy, Itty Bitty Piggy, like even Even like FTCU on Pink Friday, everybody with Lil Uzi.

I like when there is a little more hardness to it, or just like a little less corn. I don't know really how to explain it. And that might just be a personal preference, but I've really, really tried with Nicki albums and I can always find more than a handful of really great songs, but the whole units to me are never what I feel like she could be capable of.

Even Pinkprint? Yeah. I don't have like a Nicki album that I like love.

My favorite Nicki album so far is Pink Friday too. And even that is like five songs too long. Wow. I wasn't ready for that.

Yeah. Yeah. When people were like, I don't know about this, I was like, this is my favorite thing. But I think it's because she felt so with the times.

And maybe the times that Pink Friday was with was whatever was happening in pop music, which maybe I wasn't that attuned to at that time. It was very connected to that sort of Kesha type of early Gaga, early Katy Perry kind of sound that was happening. I'm curious, I guess the contrast, some of your favorite Nicki songs or verses, I feel like she's someone who...

I have favorite songs of hers, but her verses, especially on other people, when she's a guest verse or anything, remixes, things like that are just so striking. Of course, the monster verse is one of the most famous guest verses maybe of all time. And she has, and that's one of, I don't even know how, like 100, like one of 100 incredible, just a really excellent kind of feature she's had.

So I'm curious, what are some of your favorite Nicki, I guess we could just call them moments. Nicki moments. I love her on my Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, the intro, the fairytale intro.

Her voice, her character was just so perfect for that and the lush production under it. It's one of the things that makes that album I think so elevated. Just all the thought put into it and finding Nicki to get into that rhythm for it. And that's not even her really, really rapping. She's just kinda playing around there.

It's funny, I'm trying to think about the older things, but it's like I'm thinking about her on Pound Town remix with Sexy. I see red. That was great. Yeah.

I think that, and that's the thing. When I feel like Nicki is keeping up with the times, particularly in rap, but still keeping her own unique bend to it is when I really, really like her. Yeah. Big Sean ass remix was like, that was.

Oh, yeah. It's so good. Yeah.

I think of that as one of the moments where she was trying to fit in with the song. She wasn't trying to totally wash the song, but that. That's a really good one.

That might be my favorite Nicki verse of all. That's a really, really good one. I love. I'm a big fan of her Trey Songz collaboration. Oh, Bottoms Up?

Bottoms Up is very good. I love that. That's a good one.

It could have been made for you and by you. Yeah, I love. I love her verse on Bottoms Up. I love her verse on Lil Freak by Usher, especially the Everybody Loves Raymond line.

Something that I- would just yell constantly. That's a good one. That's a good one. That is a great one.

That's an all-timer. Yeah. I didn't used to, but now that I listen to it, I like her verse on Motorsport a lot. Yes. I think that was a very tense moment.

There was already tensions kind of brewing between she and Cardi before everything really, really blew up. They're trying to collaborate. Cardi has an outstanding verse.

I love her calling herself the Trap Selena. But now I'm thinking about how Nicki kind of creeps on it. like how like kind of intimidating she is on it. Like I really like her attitude in that verse a lot more now. And I think that's like a pretty iconic moment for her too, I think.

Yeah, I mean I think the thing with Nicki and something you brought up a couple times is like the characters and sort of that mix of like she is very, very funny and she's very quick with her humor and she also is like, she's a theater kid who like is very good at like embodying Roman and embodying like all these like different kind of personas in these songs. And tell me about that. Tell me about how that kind of set Nicki apart and also kind of evolved over the course of her career. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things, you know, like earlier when I was like, she was so weird. It was one of the things that made her weird, but also then made her really interesting.

The Harajuku Barbie character was really interesting to me, her calling herself that. The Monica Lewinsky references and the Nicki Lewinsky character, and that being about her relationship to Lil Wayne. You know how everything is memes now?

And I think artists are really encouraged. You can see like artists. being encouraged, like Victoria Monet does as well, to like take memes and make them a part of their own body of work.

And it's kind of like she kind of did that with like things that weren't like as well known. But you know like Gwen Stefani previously did like the whole Harajuku thing, so it's kind of pulling that in. There's a political reference there.

I so I feel like it may be in a weird way it's kind of like a precursor to that. Yeah I feel like right now like the Young Money crew, I mean especially Nikki and Drake are in such like a weird kind of moment. A kind of make or break. I guess kind of legacy moment which is kind of surreal to even think about you know the like going just you know 14 15 years ago and just kind of that sort of imperial phase that lasted I think longer than I think anyone anticipated that it would. You know Nikki of course is still she has a massive tour I mean she still has like the Barb's forever but it has been sort of like an interesting few years I guess and sort of her career and like kind of her interaction with a lot of younger artists specifically.

I mean tell me kind of where that stands for you now and sort of how you view Nikki in the the present day, especially being a fan of Pink Friday too and kind of her music still kind of being, having like really great moments and things like that. Like where do you sort of stand in sort of your Barb fandom? Yeah, I'm really disappointed.

And I try to not let that take away from the things that she's accomplished in my mind. Like I never wanna like diminish her talent in my mind or her impact. But I do think that, you know, it's like Dark Knight. Live long enough to see yourself become the villain thing, you know or die and be a hero and maybe that those 14 years were too Long.

Yeah, but I think that's kind of what we're seeing happen And it's funny because right like one of the first I think like OG Nikki beefs was with Kim And it seemed like there was this air that like this older woman Was not embracing Nikki or Nikki felt like she wasn't embraced or there was just this like dissonance between Generations that she is like recreating. Yeah with so many young women in rap And it's like everybody who comes into the game sites are as as an influence. It's like, even after they fall out lotto, like, other folks, Ice Spice, even like, you know, she says that they're cool, but like, you know, texts leaked where she was having a hard time processing their relationship.

Like, no one has ever took away, I think, from what she's accomplished. But yeah, it is really disappointing to see. And then, I mean, I think some of like, the personal choices too, in her like, personal life, have been disappointing to see.

I read this really interesting essay in the New York Times Music Magazine many years ago. The writer was, was predicting that this generation of stars would have to fall. But this is maybe like 2017 that I read this, something like that, I was in grad school, maybe 2018. And I was like, this person was basically arguing Beyonce and Drake and Kanye and Nicki, these people can't all be who they are forever. And I was like, well who's gonna take their place?

That proved true for many years after, but I think that person was right and we're starting to see because there's so much music, there's so much. there's so many different types of women in rap. There's so many different attitudes and styles and regions that are reflected in particularly women's rap that we don't have to hold onto someone, particularly if they're not nice.

You know? Yeah, I mean something that came up for me in rap both in the Missy episode and earlier in this episode is just how many limited spaces were allowed for women in rap music and kind of this Nikki kind of even having to come up in a time where it was sort of just like you have to kind of claw forward to that space and to be like like seen as equivalent to you know the Kanye's and Jay-Z's at the moment you know it's like I guess like part of me like feels for that in a way but also I feel like I stand very much in the same place where you are where it's like you know yeah I feel like just because you can understand the origins of something or you can empathize with the feeling doesn't necessarily mean that you think it's right and I think that's where it is right you know it's like yes you did have to claw and climb your way to the top but it's not like that and none of I think the most pop and rap girls want to be that way lotto and flow Millie and Meg are together all the time. You know, sometimes it seems like some relationships here and there have like dissipated, but it's not always breaking out into these like catastrophic fights or like beefs all the time. I think that there is an aura in music, particularly in women and rap of like, we have no reason to tear each other down.

Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me in person.

It's so fun. Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone.

and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted by me, Brittany Spanos, and Rob Sheffield. Executive produced by Gus Wenner, Jason Vine, Alex Dale, and Christian Horde.

And produced by Jesse Cannon with music supervision by Eric Seiler.

Transcript for:Exploring Nicki Minaj's Super Bass Legacy

Transcript for:
Exploring Nicki Minaj's Super Bass Legacy