Transcript for:
Leadership and Transformation Lecture

I think most people don't see themselves as a leader just that in and of itself I think most people don't see themselves that way that it's some mystical role in life what would you say to somebody who says I just don't know that I am a leader or could be a leader well I everybody's a leader because leadership is influence that's what it is and that has been that has that definition of leadership has served me so well for so many years it's it's in fact in my book The troy1 a refutable laws of leadership there's the law you know leadership is influence nothing more nothing less so when somebody says they're not a leader I said well let me ask you a question do you influence anybody sure sure and almost always almost I've had a couple maybe I'm not sure but almost always they say well yeah I mean do you have children okay okay you got your family you know so yes now it may be a little influence it may be 8 10 people may not be but I look at them and say okay if you influence eight or 10 people you are a leader see what people think is they've got to have some kind of a title or position to be a leader and so they said well I you know I don't have a leadership position so I'm not a leader well you and I both know the position doesn't make you a leader anyway it gives you a chance to practice leadership it doesn't make you a leader so what I tell people is this leadership is influence so how do I increase my influence because that's because if I if I influence 10 and and next month I influence 20 wow I've doubled my leadership influence so how how do I do that and and and it's a very simple answer to increase your influence you have to intentionally add value to people this is where it all begins so Ed let's say that I want to have increased influence with you well my first question isn't boy I hope that that'll follow me the first question I is is how can I serve you perect what what can I do to add value to you so I'm going to ask you you know how can I serve you what can I do to help you in fact what's interesting before we we had this interview I mean we're I it was cracking me up we're kind of trying to out serve each other true what can I do for what can I do for you right I and and it was it was a beautiful thing because all we were really doing is I'm trying to help you and here's what I know if I sincerely add value to you my influence will increase with you that's a fact so we don't need to make leadership complicated just go out and intentionally add value to people and your influence pool begins to expand and after a while I I'm becoming quite a leader so leadership isn't title position it's it it's all about adding value and and and and serving and making a difference in other people's lives in order to do that a lot of people are going to build an organization build a team they'll be in some sort of an environment like that nobody wins alone seems like in life that's a fact you tell I was listening to the story you were telling and I'd like you to share it about you know there's the analogy of getting people on the right seats on the bus but you have this wonderful story about when you played basketball yeah about at the end of practice your coach would do something very is absolutely illustrates this point so no it's a beautiful point he he would he would have the first team the better players five players play the second team and the only thing that he would do is he would put we who were on the first team out of position yeah and he always stuck me I was I was a number two guard but he always stuck me under the basket guarding a guy named Doug Roth that was 6'8 okay and and he you know and he' put maybe our Center out there with the point guard well he's put his out position and they said now stay your position and play play to 20 well what would happen is the first team would always lose and he sit us back down and say now did you lose because of talent no did you lose no no you lost for one reason you were out of position and remember this whenever you're out of position you're going to lose well what they did is I mean I'm I'm guarding a 6' eight guy they just throw a high pass to him he's just dropping that Bel but over me the whole time well you can't and so it was a great teaching for me that no matter how gifted you are no matter how committed you are if you're out of position you're not going to be successful that's why everybody needs to find their sweet spot yeah you know what what do I really do well yes and and on that there's a point that I really want to make and that is I tell people if you want to be high highly successful you've got to get into what I call the top 5 per. okay so you got a 100 people you got 100 people to hear in your in whatever chosen profession you got you got to be in the top five yes you got to get there and you can only get to the top five if you're in your sweet spot you you can't get to the top five working on weaknesses you can't get to the top five if I'm not in the area of my giftedness so you got to find out what you're good at because that'll give you if then if you're committed and if you got a good strategy and and all those other you got a good team around you then that'll allow you to get in that top five and once you're in that top five% you're in good shape you're you're going to do very well and I tell that doesn't matter what your profession is you got to get in the top 5% and you can only get in the top 5% if you're in your position if you're in your sweet spot if you're in your GI is there any technique strategy thought you have in order to identify what those those sweet spots are for you oh yeah tral in there I mean I you know when I started okay let's go to my I started off as a pastor yeah and and so I and I had a counseling degree so now I'm counseling people well it takes me about 6 months to realize I'm not any good at that I you know I you know I'm not it's not my gift I mean they're coming in and I'm listening to them and then I say okay there I OB here's your issue here's three things and I write on a piece of paper and you know hand to them say now go be healed you know what I mean go Beal and the next month theyd come back in I'd say now okay what are we in here for well we I've got this problem what's the problem I heard last month you know what I'm saying well did you do the three thing no I didn't do the three things oh you go back well it wore me out I wore them out I wasn't any good but but but that's what I was trained in but but it wasn't giving me the results and and one day I mean it took me really it really took me uh 3 years one day I realized that when you counsel people you work on their weaknesses and when you equip people you work on their strengths good oh and the moment I went from working on weaknesses to working on strengths I became I I was I was a rock star with with strengths because you show me your strength and I'm going to give you a game plan let's get going because I'm a natural equipper not a natural counselor nothing wrong with counseling it's just not my gift you with me and and and and what did they teach me in college they taught me how to administrate yeah so I'm in my you know I've Got My Little Country Church I'm doing Administration well there's no return there I mean my gosh and and one day I'm waking up and I'm saying wait a minute this isn't working I got to go get me some volunteers to do this Administration so I can get back and so it's trial and error and and sometimes I think we go to people like I mean Ed if I'm trying to find out my strengths and you and I know each other really well I may come to you and say okay talk to me you know what do I do well yes you know sometimes we don't understand our own strengths and it takes somebody that really is a good friend that knows us well that can say well I think you're really good in this area but you got to find them and and and the good news is everybody has gifts that's right everybody so there's not such thing as person say well you know I just have no gifts and so I'm left out everybody has them you just got to go find them but once you find them that's where and by the way that's where you put all of your time in personal growth and development because the the goal isn't just to learn a lot of things I know a whole bunch of people they they're very knowledgeable but they're not very successful that's right so so what you got to do is you got to say I'm going to stay in in the of my strengths yes and and and and so when I at 27 when I decided I was going to speak and and and maybe write some books I ask myself a very simple question what are the areas that that people need to excel in to be successful and I came up with four areas okay relationships I mean if you can't get along with people hello right equipping if you if you can't develop a team you you may have personal success but you're not going to have multip you're not going to comp pound success because you don't have people helping you you an attitude of overcoming adversity and difficulty to getting back up not quitting that whole process and Leadership the ability to influence people and and and at 27 I said those are the four things I'm going to spend my life and and if you look at my books almost all of them are in relationships equipping attitude leadership it's true and and I F I I found what I call I found the sweet spot for people to success man and I and so I wrote all my books in in in those areas I've read I'm going to tell you something I've read uh of the majority of your books um and there was a window of time where I read every single one as they were coming out and now I'm back in that cycle again with you and for me the last couple minutes were really valuable because I've i' I'm always I'm obviously acknowledged like you are as a good leader and sure and uh but in my own mind I've wondered whether I am sometimes cuz I'm not a great counselor either and and and I mean that like when people are looking for counsel for me and but what I am I I do feel like I'm really good at identifying giftedness in people I see giftedness I think I'm good at equipping people and so leaders come in different shapes sizes and forms that was just really a good validation just for me and I think it would be for certain people listening to this because I think also sometimes people that are really good at executing themselves potentially maybe struggle with counseling people on to do things but they're great at they could be great at equipping oh absolutely absolutely and and what I found is successful people are really good at finding their gifts getting in their gift Zone and then just really staying there and becoming successful I think they're happier too oh yes but successful leaders there's the difference successful leaders are had the ability what you just described it of finding the Str sweet spot for other people and getting them in that sweet spot and that's where the return is I spent my life after I discovered what my strengths were now I'm just helping other people find their strengths because there's nothing more empowering to a person and to find out that they are good at something and then being equipped and taught how to how to do it well what it's honestly what you just described is what I enjoy doing most in my life why you're a leader well I hope working on it thank you I I'd like I just want you to know something like the whole interview everything we're doing today that was valuable for me because I've struggled even myself like why am I that's an element of my ability with people that's just limited I'm not great at counseling people and but I am good at equipping them so it's just a distinction that I really appreciate one of thing about teams and I don't want to talk about the new book but one thing I want to talk about on on building teams and having teams is I have probably talked about the law of the catalyst oh yeah in in my life in business that you've talked about in various different books yes um both both identifying them an organization so that they can grow and also wanting to be identified as one as someone coming through an organization could you just talk about most people listening that's are familiar with your work but obviously there are people that aren't as well so what's the what is that law of the what is a catalyst in an organization why is it important why do you want to be one well and that's out of my book the 17 laws of teamwork and basically the that chapter is about the fact that good leaders have the ability to make things happen and so when people look at me and they say okay John I'm looking for maybe a potential leader what's the first thing I look for the first thing I say for them to look for is look for somebody that makes things happen yes because you but there's a whole bunch of people they're wondering what happened you what I'm saying and they're not the one you want to recruit so I say go f go f because here's what I discovered if you can make things happen for yourself you now have the credibility to make things happen for other people if if if I'm not successful there is no appeal for you to follow me I I tell people all the time success is The credibility of a leader to lead because you think about it no one ever got you know nobody ever said oh my gosh you know okay I got to I'm I'm financially in deep weeds oh my gosh I'm going to I'm I think I'm go called My Buddy Joe he's been bankrupt three times you Hey Joe how no no you don't follow Joe Joe's been bankrupt three times you got to go find somebody that's successful with money you going to get a div oh my gosh I'm going to call Jack he's been divorced four times youo Jack help me with my marriage you see people when they need help the first thing they think about is who is better than me that I can follow and so the credibility of a leader as far as to lead is that there're successful I mean if I'm successful I say hey I'd want to join my team well of course I mean if LeBron James was in the room right now Leon says we're going to play little basketball and and LeBron says you know I'll pick and then John will pick well when LeBron's there you're got your hand say LeBron pick me cuz you're going to win if you get LeBron and every time I'm getting right pick you're diving Behind the Chair you don't want to be on my team you're going to lose on my team and so what I tell people all the time is that first thing you've got to do is you got to be you got to get good yourself if you're why would I ever think that I should lead somebody if I'm not any good at it so true okay but once I'm good and I found my success now I began to say okay how do I compound this well I compound this by looking at Ed and saying okay Ed let me help you find your sweet spot and let's get you on the same road because now all of a sudden this is how I this is how I really build a a team and so the the law of the catalyst is all about making things happen and and that's what I look for I mean Jack wel his phrase was that you know who's going to get out of the pile yeah you know he'd say in when a General Electric you there's a big pile of people in this company well who's going to get out of the pile well well somebody's going to climb out uh Mark Cole is my the CEO I have six companies and Mark CO's the CEO of them and and the reason he is is because he got out of the pile he got out of the pile he started he started in the stock room yes did he really Mark did yeah absolutely and I just took him out last week but awesome Mark's here by the way he's cracking up here but but he got out of the pile yes in other words he everywhere he was he he he succeeded yes and everywhere he went he won yes and after while you just sit there and say okay okay I think I'll let him run this thing because he he he knows how to do it and so uh for all of us be I I say before you go lead somebody else just kind of get good yourself so right you're a mutual hero of mine friend of yours that we were talking about off camera Art Williams how important is leadership right and artwood used to say still probably does say you want to show me any church Boy Scout Troop football team company I'm going to show you something being run by a leader that's and and in every great company the leaders the leaders are great at identifying catalysts I mean and when you find them pay them well keep them because they're Priceless when you have them somebody I'm sure Mark's over there nodding his head that you should even pay him even better so so but I I wanted I wanted to say something to you about your books that I think are just they're so everybody they're such great reads they're easy to read They're memorable he makes points and then backs them up with Incredible stories and anecdotes and quotes and so it's the other thing about your books they're they're incredibly um I would say the information is profound unique and deep yet very easy to it's you equip people so well with the way you write it that it's transferable that's right the information is so transferable you do that better than anybody of anybody's work that I read I enjoy reading every single book the problem with your books often times is when you highlight them you would almost be better off in John's books highlighting the parts that you don't want to go back and remember because he's literally just covered in highlighter when you highlight his books I'm serious thank you bud it's it's an absolute fact it's like I always get tired of highlighting it's like every single part of every single page it would seem to be I'm a communicator so let's start here you know an educator takes something simple and makes it complicated I mean think of all you know think of all my college all the stuff I mean in in an educational world if you're not confused they're not happy so true I mean they their par hey their sentences are paragraph long I mean by the time I get down the paragraph I forgot what the first part of the sentence I got to go back and read the instead of short sentences you know I'm dealing with a paragraph so so but a communicator is exactly opposite they take something complicated and make it simple wow and so here's when I write a book or when I speak doesn't matter my my first objective is to keep it so simple that when I say it it immediately resonates with people in fact anytime you have to explain what you said you didn't say it right the first time so I my my joke is I put the cookies on the lower shelf so everybody can have some and so simple as far as understanding but deep because there's a difference sure it but deep when it comes to profound results that it will make in your life it's an absolute Factor so I mean one of the principles I teach it's very simple I just hold my arm up in the ear and I say everything worth wildes uphill everything everything worth there's nothing there's nothing in your life worthwhile there not uphill it's it's all uphill well everybody gets it I mean it's all uphill so good you know and here's the problem we uphill hot hopes but we have downhill habits okay we're in trouble you you know got a downhill habit you're not going uphill got to change that habit so everything that I teach I teach with a with a with a real passion to keep it simple but keep it very practical and and and make sure that the principle is life-changing yes if you can do those three things then then you you really got to go and when I wrote the book leaders shifts I've been sitting on that book probably for a good 12 years have you really in fact um uh a lady in our on our team named Aaron who does a lot of content for me yes she shared with me she said John um you really need to get that book out and and I I kind of put it on the shelf and really wasn't too excited about getting out because I thought I I don't know this may be a little too simple but when I started writing I thought this is going to be lifechanging and and now that I'm looking at the book coming out I'm so excited because because here's what happens we start leading in a way that gives us some success and immediately we get in in in into this pattern and what we don't understand is that leadership if if leadership is about anything it's about adjusting and being flexible and if you want to be a manager then nail it get it straight do it the same way every time that that's that's management but when it comes to leadership uh in in fact if you go back into the 1980s there were no leadership books in in bookstores they were all management books right because you were trying to manage your company your business and then things began to change so fast people were saying this management stuff doesn't work because this baby isn't staying the same I I turned around it moved on me and so I've got to get in front of it and and so leadership is all about being in front well if you're in front one of the first things you know is if you're in front you don't know everything yes so so the issue is not knowing everything the issue is when you know something adjusting as quickly as you possibly can because because if we don't adjust quickly we miss it yes because it's a timing thing especially today oh well I I was getting ready to speak for a company recently and their theme was fast forward and we were doing a preall and they asked me said what's fast forward mean to you I said well fast means faster as you look in the future that that if anybody thinks that the future is going to be a little bit slower or I love these people say well I'm just honest to God I'm just waiting for things to slow down you know what I I would suggest dying that's what I you know that's probably about the only way it's going to slow down for you so fast as faster but let me tell you something forward is shorter when I started off as a leader we had 10year long range plans and fiveyear was a mid-range a short range plan when I started off I'm talking about in the Dark Ages now was a two-year plan yeah well a two-year plan now that's a ridiculous long r i mean that's that's a that kind of makes you suck air you say I think that's a little bit long so so what I know is fastest faster and forward shorter very good so let me tell you something the only people they're going to win are people that can make leader shifts and adjust quickly and so I wrote the book I I talk about 11 leaderships yes that I've made in my lifetime and people ask me all the time they'll say John how have you stayed I'm 71 how have you stayed on top of your game and I say it's very simple it's not the same game goes okay baseball is called baseball but it's not the same game so true I me you don't go to the baseball game the second day and say oh my gosh now wait man that leadoff hitter got a single yesterday oh he struck out oh my Lord you see it maybe had the same title yeah but it isn't the same game yes and and and and and you don't lead today's game on yesterday's results no bab said one day he said yesterday's home run won't win today's game and I'll tell you what yesterday's thinking won't win today's game either so I talked about leaderships that you need to make in your life to keep you on the edge and and to keep you uh adjustable and flexible so that you can really so that you can really lead your people well because here's what I know here's what I know people don't like change you're right so when the leader is resistant to change gosh he's going to get into this leadership gravity pool or she is that's going to go down every time because can tell you're not going to have the people behind you saying come on let's make some more changes let's let's let's make some more adjustments no no they're remember they're W to hold on to what they have and your job as a leader is to say there's something better if you'll just if you just let this go there's something better for you here tomorrow and that's the you know and that's what the good the good leaders do I I want to know what you meant by train leaders to transformational leaders just just what that means and then they can obviously read the book to get all the details but what's a trained leader compared to a transformational leader well that now you're you're in the core of my calling because I have an organization a nonprofit organization called equip and uh so it's designed to train leaders and so we in the especially in the faith community uh made a commitment to we start off with a what we call a million leader mandate let's see if we can train a million leaders in the world we accomplished that and and and again as a vision as you go the vision expands and I said now we trained a million leaders I wonder if we could train a leader in every country of the world man and and so we focus on and in 19 years from starting this organization in the 19th year we had trained 5 million leaders in every country of the world we are the largest leadership training organization in the world wow and it was so fulfilling and so satisfying I mean and so the board we got together I mean we're you obviously you're having celebrations and parties and we had we hit this and so we're in a board meeting and it was kind of like wow look what we did look what we did and all of a sudden there was a restlessness within me and and and and I said you know what I think there's a level higher than what we've done and they're oh look at what do you mean we trained all these leaders and and and we went into I bet about a three-hour discussion that day with my board because there a lot of them said boy let's just let's end it let's we CH we just scored we just won the Super Bowl and here you're kind of wanting to dive back in and and what I told him was I said well the good news is we've trained leaders so leaders know what to do but just because you know how to lead doesn't mean you're changing lives and I said I think there's a higher level of leadership than trained leaders and that's transformed leaders and and so we've got to figure this out and and honestly even my key people they looked at me said boy I don't think we understand this transformation what's transformation and what I told them was I can't explain it but when you see it you'll know it oh my goodness and so we started going in and and developing the identity the characteristics of a transformational leader and and and and and then we started understanding that if you're going to trans if people are going to be transformed it's got to be in small groups like roundtables not in massive audiences and we trained in auditoriums and massive audiences and people are taking good notes and they they're learning it but transformation happens when you and I are talking and you're encouraging me and challenging me and I'm asking questions and we're having that give and take so we we said let's go if we can transform countries and we started with Guatemala and uh we do we we there just three things to think about we start top down we don't even go into country unless the president asks us so we come in by the invitation of the president we have 22 presidents of countries who have now ask us to come in and do transformation so I mean the line's getting long because things are so top down because influence filters down it doesn't filter up so so I mean we go you know top government top business top education top religion top media top artarts we go and we get permission so it's top down but then transformation also it's it goes It goes small round table to Big mass movements don't begin with a mass they begin with a few people so it goes you know round T small big and then we teach values because what changes people's lives are values which is inside out it's inside out small big top down and we've got this strategy at and we've trained a half a million people in Guatemala now oh my gosh oh and we're going for the Tipping Point 10% of a Nation we're wanting to be in round tables because the you know that's the tippy Point glad talk us about and we're in Paraguay now and we're and and and and we are in Costa Rica and we you know I just came back from Kenya I went to Saudi Arabia this year by the invitations of the leaders you know of the country and so it's so it's so exciting and so in in leaderships I talk about transformation and and it's just one chapter but it's it was a shift I made and it was a great shift and uh but probably every book I write from now on I'll have something transformation because I'm we're seeing such life change and I'm living and watching this that it's kind of like it's contagious and I'm wanting to share it with others because I think that once a leader understands transformation they go to a whole new level of their leadership and now now people aren't just following you because you're going to help them be successful they're following you because their life is being changed oh my gosh that's a whole different game there's people watching the say say look I'd like to start to transform my life yeah you know I need there's transformation of leaders but I need to transform my life I want to take step towards being happier being more successful and they had a minute with John Maxwell they ran into you in a coffee shop they said Mr Maxwell I've got a question for you what would your advice be to me about just transforming my life what would be the step you would take the thought I should have the action maybe I should take your answer to them would be yeah well in fact I want to talk to them right now being a person of Faith the first thing I would share with you is a relationship with God okay and if you don't have a relationship with God you're my friend love you as much as someone that does so please understand that I'm not trying to convert you it's just that when you find something that really is beautiful you want to share it with everybody and and and uh I remember when I became a person of faith my the verse that grabbed me the most is the verse that says if a person is in Christ he becomes a new creation and and I did I I became a new person again because now let's skip that okay if you're not a person of Faith just act like you never heard it okay let's go to the real thing I would sit down at the table with you and I'd say if you really want to be transformed you have to live an intentional life this is so simple I don't want you to miss it most people don't lead their life they accept their life and when you accept your life you are living on things that are not worthy of your time and effort and energy and you heard me say moment everything worthwh is uphill the reason I want you to understand that is to go uphill you have to be intentional nobody ever went uphill by accident you've never read a book on accidental achievements you have to be intentional with what you do and who you are and so I would just say to you find your strengths become very intentional and and and and commit your life every day to to it's all uphill it's all uphill listen Ed very successful he's I mean he's got great business he's made a lot of money can I tell you something it's still uphill for him see the great mistake we make is we think I'm going to go out and make enough money and and there's a day when I just I can relax and I can rest and everything's going to be easy can I tell you something the day that you have that day you know one of your children you know gets in an accident you got problems will never ever leave you issues obstacles difficulties that they're always going to surround you so you never get to that place where you've got it made you're not supposed to got it made you're supposed to add value to people and it's all pill oh my gosh so the moment I understand that then what happens is I commit myself to it and then it becomes a beautiful uphill climbing life because one thing is beautiful about going uphill is the scenery is really good so you got to be intentional with it so that's what I would say to them be intentional start today and and here's what's and here's the difference good intentions are overrated gosh I know so many people well I'm going to do that yes I I I think that's a good idea I think I'm going to do that some good intentions are the most it's the most overrated phrase in the world you got to go from Good Intentions to good actions nothing happens until you've got good actions and you won't have good actions until you're intentional with your life my name's John and I'm your friend and I'm Yours hey it's Ed my lad I just wanted to thank you for being here and I would ask you to please subscribe to the show if you just click the Subscribe button here I would really appreciate it it helps the show grow so we can get even more successful guests on the program to help you at the same time if you're subscribed you're going to get access to the programs before anybody else in the world gets access to them so if you would click subscribe right here thanks so much you do something you talk about in the book we might as well just start there you have the ability to take really complicated things and make them seem simple yeah and you talk about that as actually one of the laws in the book of being able to be a great communicator is that something that you do I'm sure you do it intentionally but do you do it naturally well I do it intentionally uh let me say this um I was a good good student but I wasn't a great student and so a lot of times when I was in college or in a classroom I would want the professor to break it down and make it much more simple I would look around the room I said am I the only one that's having a hard time here and and and not maybe grasping and and learning like I need to and so I really as a student I worked on helping when I would hear talk I would say how could that be reduced so I can apply it to my life yeah and so it almost started as a as a a student and and I learned to to reduce things and and bring them down and I tell people all the time I'm a communicator not an educator you know an educator takes something simple and makes it complicated I mean that's just who they are I mean honestly if you're in the education world if if you're not confused they're not pleased you know what I'm saying and uh and then but then a communicator takes something licated makes it simple and so my whole goal is to uh make things very palatable for people uh one of the things I teach in the book is the fact that if you have to keep explaining what you just said you haven't said it right the first time I mean and how many times we have a person explain and explain I just sit there and think why didn't you take some time on the front end yeah to simplify this so that everybody can apply it to their life and and I there are three real quickly yet there are three kind of I take the simplistic I start with simplistic and and simplistic is not good it's it's it's fast and it's it's it's easy but it's not really deep and helpful and and and and it it's a it's a Hal truth it's never a whole truth you know so what if I say things like um experience is the best teacher that's a simplistic statement but it's not true if it were true then as people got older everybody get better and I know a whole bun people they're getting they're getting older but they're not getting better the experience isn't helping them at all although experience is not the best teacher reflection and learning from that experience is the best teacher wow so so how do I get from experience is the best best teacher to reflection and learning from experience best teacher well you've got to go from simplistic to complicated or complex in other words you've got to wrestle with the statements and and you got and you've got to contextually take them from every angle until you can come to something that is really solid and something that is really true and and something that really works and so just as simplistic as easy and fast you know complex complicated is is slow and deep but once you come through that comp and it takes a while to do that once you come through it on the on the simple side now it it it's fast but it's deep in other words people can grab it real quick but then they go home and they think about it Ed and they just they just can't they can't can't get away from it like when you wrote your book when you book The when you wrote the book The Power of one more that is so simple MH that you can grasp it immediately but you can't you have to spend a lot of time on it to work it out in your life what a great Point yeah what a great point and and so there so here's the here's the issue I think in communication uh when I was young when I was a young Communicator I I saw that I had Charisma and I saw that I could probably get by on stage with the with having fun with people and enjoying them and making them laugh and I I came to this decision am I going to am I going to wing it or am I going to work for it and I was tempted to wing it because I could wing it and I could get by with it see here's the challenge when you're gifted in a certain area you can wing it and still be successful right you can be in that top 20% yes but it but to work for it that that's a whole different game and and and in in the law of Simplicity you have to work for this you you have to work for work simple is hard work but if you work for it you can get in the top 2% yeah and so what I tell people all the time is the tendency in the Temptation is in giftedness is you don't give it all because you just don't have to give it all I mean it's just it comes but because you don't give it all you you do well but you don't do very very well but if you would just work on that area Of giftedness You' get in that top 2% and you know as well as I do if you're in the top 2% whatever it is you own whatever you want to own it's it the world is yours and so simple I decided at a very young age in my 20s I was going to work for it I was just going to work for it and I spent a lot of time I this morning I was I write every day this morning I was writing and I was wanting to make a statement and and I I worked on that statement probably for 40 minutes and it I I would write it and I said no that's not quite right got to work no no it's still fit and then finally about 20 minutes later I thought okay I got it that there it is there it is so I get up and I make the statement and people say oh my gosh the guy just that just flows out of him no no it didn't flow out of me it it didn't either it had to cook and work it in ins side of me a long time and and but I get it to the place where it flows out of me but it doesn't flow good stuff doesn't happen automatically it has to you know when I when I tell people that I do that too that are other speakers I kind of watch often times their face kind of glaze over like you really do that I say I do because I do want to I want to be as effective as I can by the way I should have started out by saying to everybody that you can go to 16 lawof communication. comom and that's with the one six in it 16 La of communicationcommunication docomo I've read collectively in my life are John's books and the best speaker that I admire that I look up to is John so when he writes a book on this topic it is something that you need to have and for the record everybody some of you are listening to going I'm afraid to speak I don't know that I should be one and one of the brilli iant things in the book is and I'll have you talk about this John is that a great speaker and I have found this I think when I was young when I would speak if I'm being honest part of it was about me probably a significant part meaning I wanted to impress them I wanted to wow them you know I wanted them to think I was great that did a few things one I made less of a connection but two it put tremendous pressure on me because it was about me and a lot of you that are afraid of speaking that would probably be great at it it's because you're approaching it already from it being about you and if you would just shift to the impact to the service of others you're peace about even trying to do it would change and you'd be a 10 times better speaker so that's one of the laws in the book too so we might as well start there because I think some people need to come into this tent of speaking John to the tent of communication that think they don't belong in our tent and they do belong in the tent they're flawed thinking is they think it's about them and that creates anxiety and fear which is sort of ego driven so talk about that for a second 100% my friend 100% it it's it's the law of connecting and the law connecting just simply says conect communicators know that it's all about others it's it's all about others and I I can identify exactly when I started speaking it was all about me I mean I I hope they like me I hope I say it right did I say it right oh my gosh and and and and it it it became like a I was a nervous bundo yes because I was I was I man I I I hope I did okay so when people say John what's the one thing I know there are 16 laws but what what's the one thing to be a great communicator well the one thing Ed is you have to get over yourself you just have to get over yourself it is not about me it's about the audience it's not about me it's about the small group I'm dealing with it's not about me it's about the one person I'm talking having a one-on-one conference it's all about them and until I can get over myself because if I can't if it's about me I can't I can't really add value to you if I'm thinking about me I'm not that good I don't have the ability to think about me and think about you and be good on both ends I'm a little limited maybe some maybe some people can but I can't so if it's going to be about you I've got to be thinking about you and it's and I've got to be focused on you and very quickly you'll realize John really wants to help me and add value to me I mean it's contagious and that connection so I tell people to get over themselves and and and uh so what we did it when when this book released we did a video and uh I told the people that were producing I said I want to start the video in the audience I said I want to I want I I don't want the you just shoot me on stage and I was in the audience all by myself sitting in a in a in in a chair and and and and they Z zoomed in me and I said this is where great speaking begins right here I have to constantly be thinking about the people and and and how can I connect with them what can I say how can I help them where are they you know you have to find them before you can lead them you just don't start leading people you just don't start speaking you have to find them and soon as you find them now all of a sudden you have the credit so I this whole get over myself let me tell you a fun story there's a a a company in Nashville the this this guy has a very successful writing company and he's read my books in fact he came to me I didn't know him he said I built my business off your stuff and he said you ought to write songs based on your books well I looked at said man I've never done that before but you know me I I'm 76 but I I keep growing I keep learning I keep I mean why not try this so I went to Nashville and he put me in the studio with like guys that wrote number one hits I mean big hits they were you know I'm like I I always say if you're at the Head of the Class you're in the wrong class well I should have even been in the class on this one I mean these these guys were pros and and I'm in there throwing and and so we took the book on on the laws of communication and I said I would like to use the get over myself theme and so we wrote a song called get over myself and and so if you're a listeners all you got to do is go wherever you you know I don't know where you get your your music but wherever you get it just you know get get over myself and the course says and the course says it all is that I got to find myself to know myself I got to know myself to be myself I got to be myself to improve myself I got to improve myself so I can get over myself wow so I can give myself to you oh wow John that's very good and the song is going crazy the song's going crazy I got it I got another one from my book uhu uh make today count called uh uh day by day and I got my sometimes win sometimes you learn book or songs going to come out next month but I'm having a blast writing these songs and of course again I'm I'm the least of the least and they're so kind to even let me in the studio with them but I'm throwing this stuff up and we're just have we're having a blast but I I I tell you the moment that you think about the audience and and I can hardly wait to speak I'm not nervous at all I can hardly wait to speak because I'm going to go out and I'm going to give them something that is going to help their life and that is so fulfilling and so enriching to me that it gets me over anything that is about me it's all about are you getting ready to win a Grammy this will be you're going to win a d Grammy for your music now that's think I I have no idea but I know I'm having fun you know again I don't know if you all understand this John's 76 years old and I think you all go hey man you Ed you work hard they see my social media and my pace and I am telling you this is not this is not I'm not being nice I John is everywhere all the time crushing it crushing it yet like before we went on he's tell me about golf that he just played there's a way to have I think one of the keys to longevity is that you do live a full rich life but you do bust your tail the entire time John is I've been with John I just got back from Europe I'm going here now I'm in Tennessee oh I got to fly to California my gosh am I getting out worked by John and by the way you can tell his enthusiasm level is through the roof as well I want to ask you this though did you just say you're not nervous when you speak do you not get nerves at all anymore not no no have you had I think you tell a story though a time you did I think you were going to Boston I think it's going to Boston maybe oh my gosh yeah I I study you so you're going to Boston as I think The Story Goes you were replacing a speaker or something but there's a great lesson in this story do you know the one I'm talking about oh yeah you're talking about Peter low when he had his seminars and and he called me one day and uh I I was home and he said that uh oh gosh I'm the guy that was Superman in the movies Chris Reeves uh yeah uh his name Reeves Christopher re Reeves Christopher Rees Christopher re okay he was sick and he was the last speaker on the day and he said I I I can't speak today and so Peter says he called me in the morning he said John can you get up to Boston and and and and and fill in I said well yeah so I jumped on a plane and I went up to Boston and I got there just maybe 30 minutes before I was supposed to speak and so I'm kind of Backstage they're getting me all hooked up mhm and then I find out they haven't told the crowd hello they haven't told the crowd and the Christopher re is sick and isn't going to be here the crowd they've been staying all day Waiting for Superman to come and show and and and and I'm and I'm backstage said you have told them yet what do you mean what are you doing to me they're looking for Superman they're they're not going to get Superman they're going to get the Pillsbury Dough Boy out there they're not getting they're not getting Superman they're getting fat man what I mean what do you I kid you not they went out right before now they're oh Christopher ree here he comes Superman's about to come she and they we're so sorry you know Christopher Reed couldn't come today and we have John Maxwell well 300 people get up and walk out as I'm coming out on stage they're already leaving I mean they're already leaving and then when they see me another 200 people get up and they it's like it's like horrible and I looked at him and of course all you could do is you just start laughing and say you know I'm I'm so sorry you know what I'm saying you know now the good news is once I started speaking no one else left but it's it yeah I mean hello I mean who's going to who's going to replace Superman did you say something when you came out to grab their attention or to get them or to connect with them did you say something that Sav I said guess what I'm not Superman I'm in trouble and you're going to have to help me but if you'll stay with me I'm going to I'm going to help you and and you know what I did I got him on my side really what I did is I what you what you do in cases like it's like the international audience when I speak internationally I ask them questions all the time I'll say now uh I want to tell you a story but does this happen in your in your culture and and sometimes they'll say yes and I'll say okay let me tell you what happens is if you do that you engage them and very quickly they become an ally and they be they get on your side and and so they help so when they realized that I wasn't Superman they said well fat man needs my help I'm going to hang it with him and and they did and and and so it came out okay but obviously I was set up I mean I was set up for there's no there's no goody thing about I mean when I saw that on back never in my life have I been more tempted to turn around and oh my gosh I can't even imagine hey not only a Superman sick fat man just got sick too you know you know I'm actually crying I'm actually crying thinking about it and by the way you guys I I know that cuz he's my dear friend I say this but I I want you to get this book I just really believe that more people could be great communicators than believe that that than actually think they can be and so go to 16 laws of communication. comom and get John's book the thing that John I think is maybe the best I've ever seen at and it's one of the laws it's law number 12 in the book you have to read the book to get all the laws everybody we're going to go through a few of them today but one of the laws in the book and by the way you all are good at this you just need to work on the skill because there's certain areas of your life you're already great at it and that is that I think great speakers in fact my favorite people to be around at a dinner or a lunch are storytellers people who can tell a story and law number 12 is the law of Storytelling which you just did so well right there but elaborate on that a little bit of because I I I watch a lot of speakers throw a bunch of facts and PowerPoint and slide this and slide that and I'm like facts tell but stories sell right like I want to hear a story I'm going to remember the story so talk about that a little bit well you know when I think when you're with us the last time you're talking a lot about the story of your father mhm you know it it it just what it does is it humanizes the speech when you tell a story immediately you're telling their story because when I tell a story we all have commonness in our life and all of us have commonness in experiences that's why when you're in a group and somebody tells a story what's it do it triggers somebody else say oh and I I remember doing and all of a sudden you're going around the table and you're just bouncing off each but what happens is stories stimulate our own personal journey and our own personal stories and and and it becomes it becomes something that everybody can identify with you know I I grew up as a theologue so I was trained in Theology and and basically one of the things they taught me which was terrible is they said don't tell personal stories because it'll because it'll it'll make people think that you're kind of like a narcissist or an egomaniac and and so for about a for my first year I didn't tell any personal stories I just told stories and and they were good but one day I just told a personal story and everything came alive and what I found out was that when I tell my story it lives in me and it has it when I'm teaching or lesson or I'm speaking I can either transfer information from me to you which is not effective of all or it if it goes through me to you wow there's a difference between coming from me to you and through me to you and and so whenever I'm doing my writing of a lesson I always make sure that I have some personal illustrations in it and I always and and ask and the other thing is I ask myself when I'm doing that do I live this is this something I'm living because when I was young in my 20s had I I made a decision that I was only going to teach what I lived and What I believed and I just wasn't going to teach and so there are a lot of things I don't teach teach at all and and some of them are probably very good but I just don't live them I I I maybe don't believe them and and I what I found is personal conviction moral Authority comes from the life that you've lived and and and and so we we teach what we know but we reproduce who we are oh gosh and Ed stories are who we are and and they're they're so transferable do people remember numbers do people not remember stats I don't even use like I don't know charts and things like that honestly and the reason I don't use them is because I never understood them myself and so it's kind of like if I can't figure them out if you can't figure them out you sure can't teach them that's for sure and so but stories live they they have they have breath to them and and they draw the people in immed immediately and when you know when you again when you were at our conference and you were so superb you were so superb and you started talking about your relationship with your dad everybody had a relationship with a dad yeah by the way so did you I want to acknowledge something about you I want to say one thing everybody I was just sitting here listening to you I was thinking man this is pretty cool for people to listen to two of the you know more sought-after speakers in the world talk about this topic and then the best John has written this book about it but that day so by the way what I try to do is try a me story with a you meaning oh meaning yeah meaning I'm telling a story about me but you're getting your own meaning from it that's an important key everybody when you tell stories and John's the master at this but that day the other thing it does is it gives you more Dimension so what they see when you walk out on stage is the current version of you and when you begin to tell stories about different times in your life it gives you Dimension and it actually Alters their perspective in time of you so even that day and I know you well after I spoke it doesn't matter what the story was everybody but John then got up and actually I don't know if you remember this John you talked about your dad and lessons he had taught you and what a prayerful good Manny was in lessons and what it did it's interesting because even now when I see you it's different I just want to tell you the impact a story can have I pictured you as a little boy yeah and so I've always admired you as a mentor but you're older than me you were always like when I started in this space the first book I read was your leadership book right the irrefutable laws of leadership and so I've always pictured you at this version of your life and when you started to tell this story about your dad it switched and now I could see you as a little boy and then I saw you in your 30s cuz the story was from those times and it gave a depth and a connection that went far deeper not just the story but a different time in our lives gives you a dimension when you speak and it's it's actually now when I see you I actually see the little boy and the man that I admire and it's very deep connection when somebody does that and that you were emotional speaking about your dad as well but I just want to acknowledge that something that that I noticed when you did it that day for me cuz I watched a lot of speakers can I can I jump in on that just for a second because this is so helpful because I love I love your dimension phrase because that's exactly right if if I could have one wish granted um you see people are seeing me on the backend and they're seeing me where all the success is and yeah you know it's compounded through the years it's just compound and and what I say is in the beginning you're not as bad as people think you are but if you do it right in the end you're not as good as people think you are because it compounds and if I had one wish yet it would be the people could have seen me in the beginning what would they see well they would have seen a person that wasn't a very good communicator wow they they they would they would here's why I want them to see me in the beginning if they saw me in the begin everybody would have great hope for themselves that if they saw me in the beginning every person would say I can do that I I that's as reachable as could be that guy wasn't that good I could hey I can bore people for 35 minutes like he just bored me and and and it would it would be so much because one of the things I don't like about success is it separates us from people and and and I hate that I don't want fans I want friends I want I you know I want to close that Gap but at this age it's hard to close that because I mean okay I've spoken 13,000 times in over 100 countries of the world my go of course I'm a great communicator if I can't communicate after 13,000 times go home do you know what I'm saying you chose the wrong profession go home boy you so but what people don't understand it was the practice it's the it's you you you cannot separate action from success and you can't separate intentional practice from success and so after 13,000 times of course I'm good because I've been practicing and practicing and pract just like the people that are on the podcast right they'll be good too but if they could have seen me on the front end interesting it would have helped them because that's where they are when you talked about the dimensions of stories when we tell stories about different times in our life it does help people see us in a in in another Dimension that is very helpful for the for the learning and the growth but I don't like the separation that success brings I I I haveo it I I wish that I wish there was a way to to close that Gap because I you don't help people when you're separated from people you only help people when you're beside them and you walk with them and and they can connect with you if that makes sense yeah you said something to me once I'll mess the quote up but I actually quote you when I speak um cuz I I also believe self-deprecation making fun of yourself is a great way to connect with people if it's true and sincere right when you when you speak and I messed the quote up all the time but I actually quote you in the current version of what I'm talking about I quote something you said to me I quote it incorrectly but it goes along these lines that Ed you said to me Ed something like if you really want to uh impress people show them how perfect you are but if you want to connect with people reveal to them your imperfections yeah totally it's the impress impress impact if you want to impress people talk about your success you want to impact them talk about your failures and the reason I think that's important is because I think a lot of people think they have to have all these impressive things they've achieved in their life prior to making an impact on people now I do believe you should have some type of a track record and have done something when you're speaking about it but I don't believe you have to be this tremendous success in order to make an impact in fact I think sometimes that your proximity to the audience in terms of how far you are from them in your success some of that proximity is actually really good thing and that that success does separate you if you're not careful from the audience one of the things that you do when you speak this is subtle and it's may be too subtle to share on the podcast but I watch it in you and it's something that I think is it's probably one of the only other two laws we'll cover because I want him to get the book but you use better than anyone ever silence when you speak yeah you use it and my stand-up comedian friends always tell me when I speak Ed the funny is after the joke's told it's in the silence and when I speak the biggest change in my speaking over the years is my comfort level with silence when I talk that and an amateur speaker or a newer speaker doesn't like silence they talk too fast and they talk too much in my opinion you are the all-time best at the pause and the moment in between the words so that it makes an impact I make mistakes sometimes even still to this day John I've made an impact and I go right into the next thing and I don't let that impact sit with the audience long enough so please talk about that yeah I love to I call it in the book The Power of the pause and and I I I'm very intentional let me just say first of all in my coaching with people I find that the hardest thing to coach people in speaking is the pause and for for a long time I kept asking myself Ed why is it that when I share with them that they need to pause more that they don't do it and I finally came up with the answer in fact when I was writing the book it finally hit me the reason that we're uncomfortable when we speak with pausing is the moment I stop I give up control to the audience very good and we subconsciously don't want to give up control we want to control we know where we want to go with the speech and here's where we are and so so we keep talking talking talking talking I got control I got control when when I stop all of a sudden I allow the audience to think and just like your comedian friends they're exactly right that pause is where what they said that was really funny I I'll tell you what the pause does the pause underlines your words M so when I pa when I say something like people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care if I pause wow the people are on that thought they're underlining that thought mentally if if I don't pause I immediately move them on and and what I do is most speakers they play catchup the whole time most speakers get in front of their audience and they speak without pausing without giving that uh that time for people and so what happens is the people are trying to catch up with them the whole time and they're they're never be they're never with them because they're behind them and if somebody's behind me whatever I'm saying doesn't have its full effect so that pause is so huge because it gives the audience a chance what basically I'm saying is is you can you can catch up with me I'm going to let you catch up and and then and then when I pause and I turn around and I walk back to my to my bar stool and sit down and then look at them it's entirely different man I I I remember in school when if the if the kids were Rowdy what would the school teacher do some sometimes they would just stop talking yeah and the S and finally even the kid that talked the most all all of a sudden everybody is very conscious nobody's talking and and and the teacher got control of the room by not saying anything until everybody got up to up up to speed with if that if that makes if that makes sense and and the pause is so powerful for transition it's it's it's a powerful it's a powerful pivoting tool and it allow tell what else it does it allows people to feel emotionally if we speak fast all the time they can't feel emotionally the words and if they can't feel emotionally the words the words don't have the same impact on them I'm receiving them mentally but when I pause they now can they can they can digest those words gez wow and they can put them on the inside and now all of a sudden I'm emotionally connected with you Ed because you just gave me a chance not only to hear what you said you you gave me a chance to go down inside of me and feel what you said which is just absolutely huge and and one more thing on I mean the pause is just powerful and I think this is a big mess I think that when you pause you give people a chance to hear the whisper and and you know I'm a person of faith not trying to throw that on anyone else but I but but but but when you say things that are substantial and things that have meat to them and have application to them if you pause sometimes what you said God the spirit whatever Whispers to your heart in fact I ask myself when I hear a speaker did I hear the whisper any time during the speech and I can only hear the whisper if the speaker lets me have a little time I not long couple seconds just to settle in and hear and and you know Henry now and said silence is a Act of war against the competing voices within us and I just think I love that statement Henry now was a great thinker great great he was a great man and I but but I I I love it and I think it's my responsibility I want them to hear my voice but there's a higher voice that's a master class right there that's class if I pause Ed I give him a shot of here in the high and let me tell you this my voice they'll forget the higher voice they will not forget all time right there all time right there that's an all-timer you guys as someone who does a lot of this um I can tell you right now that is profound wisdom right there and something that you feel it when that higher voice is Whispering to you you feel it you don't hear it you feel it and that's when a speaker has done an unbelievable job as they get out of the way and let that higher voice make the impact on you and Ed that's what you did at l2l when you with us that's exactly what you did I promise you you've learned the pause you've learned it I hey I I I learned it I learned it from a a beautiful African-American preacher in South Los Angeles in the Watts area and I I would go up and speak for him we we were friends Eevee Hill was his name Eevee Hill he's passed away and and and I watched him and when he got to something that was really important what he did is he it the pause also creates great anticipation and he would get us right to where we were ready to hear this unfolding unbelievable thought I'll never forget take a handkerchief kind of wipe his face walk around to the other side of the pulpit lean in and then delivered and I would watch him and I'd say oh I want to be just like that be just like and I never got that I never got that good but I've tried it's not that true I want to say this I I swear to you I don't want this just to be a love affair with you on the show but I want everyone to understand this I learned that from you and I'm not I'm not saying that because he's here I looked at my speaking I thought what what is this thing he does because John when he was a little younger would still stand still most of his speech didn't move around a lot he wasn't a big Pacer he did some but now when John speaks he's even better and often times he's seated most of the time and I'm like how does he do this and it's these unbelievable pauses before a profound statement and after and he is the best at this and the reason he's the best at it is because of his faith background and it is that is that he does understand that there's a higher voice and so I I got that from you and it's something by the way forget stage speaking everybody I do that with my children now when I make a point of course I I do it in I do it with my my wife I want to say something and just let it sit there and feel it and not move on to the next thing it's it's where I learned it it's um it's remarkable couple more things because I want to make sure everybody gets the book so 16 laws of communication. comom by the single greatest author on I I say thought leader um leadership expert communication expert I think life expert when you get to 76 and you've traveled around the world and impacted millions of people you become somebody who knows a lot about life and one of the things though that you talk a lot about is preparation and I think this transcends speaking but when it comes I'll let you speak about preparation it's law number four in the book but for me one of the are if I can be specific that I see speakers not prepare enough on is actually how they're going to finish their speech yeah so what I watch with speakers is a lot of people know they kind of want to know what they're going to say first because that's the thing they're the most nervous about I got to walk out what am I going to say first and I think sometimes some people know what they're going to say in the middle like what's the point but I watch and I want you to talk about preparation overall but maybe at the end tie this to it I don't know if you've noticed this number one thing I see is someone's done a pretty good job and they don't know how to finish and they keep talking and they keep talking and they talk themselves out of the great whisper because they didn't really get to the end of their preparation and how they were going to finish or they think I have to finish on a bang you know and a lot of my comedian friends even say hey man the last joke doesn't have to be the funniest it just just has to be the last joke yeah so I'm just curious as to your message about preparation and if you have any agreeance with me especially about the end yeah I do uh first of all you want to always have integrity with your Audience by being prepared I I I I I I think what an injustice to people who came and sometimes spent money and gave time and you walk out there half cocked and not ready to deliver what I mean that's just there's no there's no reason for that so we're all assuming in this communication talk that you're going in at least at your very best preparation possible okay whatever that is you're right on the front end because all is well that begins well and so we want to get it started so what's the story I'm going to say we all got that but there's a difference between good coaches and great coaches and there's a good difference between good speakers and and and great speakers and here it is good coaches have a pregame plan you know they they when they get ready for the game they've got they they've laid it out we here's are the first eight offensive plays these are the five first you know we we they have it all played out good coaches have a pregame Clan but great coaches make halftime adjustments it's it's the great coaches come out different the second half with their team because what they've watched the team they they've watched their team they watch oh my gosh I I didn't I didn't see that coming I didn't know they were going to be using that type of an offense as much so at halftime they're they're they're they're doing a lot of adjusting a lot of adjusting they have a but but let me tell you you can't adjust what you don't know so the big mess is we make adjustments but we don't know where to go we just know that it wasn't working and and so when when when something doesn't work what does a person do they talk more they they they think well if I keep talking maybe I'll talk myself into something or talk myself out of something or talk them into something and so nervousness is well I just keep talking and and you like you said Edward saying come on close it close it you know you're you're losing your audience down that process so the halftime adjustments in communication you're out there I mean I've got my lessons my teaching I've got it all out there but I'm also aware that while I speak the the audience is going to all of a sudden latch on to a part of something and and maybe I thought oh I didn't have a clue that's going to connect with him so well now my ability to stay there but you can't stay there if you don't have experience and material so you have to have my father you know the word Maxwell is a Scottish word and it really comes from having a fill in the well up to the max it a full well and my father also was a you know speaker communicator and you know was working full-time at 95 passed away at 98 but the process was and he said John always have your well fool he said always have more to deliver than you can deliver because you don't know what's going to always work the best but once you find it work if you've overdone now bring some more of that stuff bring that excess in there and just fill that Pipeline and stay there as long as you possibly can and I think that's I think that's a big mess now that only comes by experience yeah you you you this is not something that you do the first time you you speak the first time you speak You're just wanting to finish you know what I'm saying and be done and go home and but but but through experience as far as the ending is concerned in the book I think one of the one of my favorite Parts about the book was what I call the four FS of of awareness when you look when you when you look at the audience there are four words that they start with a F that you have to constantly be aware while you're teaching and the first one is how does my audience feel I want to how how do they feel how do they feel do they feel like they're happy and excited and do they do they have are they already leaning in you know are they you know are they laidback are they you know are are they a bunch of people saying I'm not really sure I'm even why I'm here but how they feel I want to find out how you feel then I go to that second f if I can find out how you feel eded and I can say you know what I have felt the same way oh my gosh he knows what I'm thinking he knows what I'm feeling he he understands me he understands me so what do they how does the audience feel what are they feeling have I felt the same way and then that four third f is and let me tell you what I found that worked for me this worked for me I not I'm not saying it work for you but it did work for me so let me at least share with you and so that now you tell them kind of what you've learn and then you use the fourth f is and I think that I can help you find the answer too and and the moment that you get those four fs and you're working those four you're teaching you follow me it works it just works yes by the way I do that when I'm in a disagreement with somebody I'll say listen I know how you feel I felt the same way myself but what I found was but what I don't add but what I have not added was the four F and I've never heard that in my life before which is I think find it I think I hope you find the answer it gives them hope you you are the best in the world I want to ask you I'm going to take you off script about off the book for a second like now it's me and you yeah the way go to 16 laws of communication. comom and you will get the master class on becoming a great communicator from the master by the way in his prime he's better than he's ever been and I've watched John speak now for as a student many many years ago um as somebody who's spoken on the same stage as him and then recently even in the audience watching him again he's just incredible um but just like a life thing I'm just curious you get to this stage of your life I feel like there's like a and I I didn't even know I was going to ask you this today but I just feel like I watch you and you're so joyful and happy I feel like there's a happiness deficiency in the world so this has nothing to do with the book yeah maybe it does maybe people don't communicate well enough with one another and that's part of the deal what have you found over 76 years that brings you the most happiness in other words in a life well- lived which you're still on the prime of um you're probably going to live far past where your dad lived which means you live into the hundreds but in a really well-lived life like what's brought you the most happiness if you could share that with the I've never asked you that on the show before and you're just a happy joyful person has it been your work your faith your F what something specific what would you say to that well first of all there is not a simplistic answer it is all those things part being part of the context you with me but but to give you the answer that that you're you're wanting something that's a little definitive the answer is what keeps me in the game and what brings me to so much joy is the people that I add value to and I help I I I mean every day how think how fortunate I am every day books I write things I teach help people and so when people say well how do you stay motivated I mean aren't you tired don't you get tired of course we're human we all get tired but but what keeps you in the game I mean I don't need to be in the game I mean I I don't I I I don't I mean I'm blessed okay I don't I don't need to be in the game you don't need to be in the game you you have money I have money and and so I I'm not in it I but I'm in it because I'm making a positive difference in people's lives and I can't think of if if what if there's something better better than that somebody's going to tell me so I can go that way too but but you know I mean I I live on two I have two wonderful homes I live on golf courses but there has to be something better and bigger than what is my tea time today I mean there just has to do I enjoy I love to play golf want to play some more golf with you I love to play golf there has to be something you have to live beyond yourself Ed I you know when we talked about get over myself yeah I success is about me significance is about others and I live in the I live in the significant world I I've already had success you have all the we have we don't I don't mean this unkindly I I'm I've got all I need but now I've got so much to give and I think and one other thing is I'm constantly I'm still growing I'm still curious I'm still asking questions I'm still taking notes I'm still learning I'm sitting at the feet of people like you and and I'm getting better and I think that is huge my father when he was 92 we were having lunch one day and he said John he said I just want you to know I think my best days are still ahead of me and he's 92 well how could he say that he's still growing he's still learning so I think I think growth is happiness I think when people are growing they're very and then I think then I think significance living for others is fulfilling wow so I think when I put the personal growth of I'm a student and I'm teachable and I'm still learning with the fact that I'm still helping and adding value to people and you put those two together and by the way if you're not growing you can't keep adding value to people this is the big Miss I mean you can't write 90 books or 88 books or whatever it is I have no if you're not still learning and growing I mean you get one book one song you know remember Debbie Boon and she well you light up my life I'm telling my age you probably don't even remember that I know who Debbie Boon is I'm probably show my age yeah yeah well Debbie boot had one hit and it was like a hit for like number one for 6 months it was just it rained it was huge but it was the only one she ever had well after you've heard Debbie sing that 50 times you want to say Debbie is there another [Laughter] song and anded the answer is no there's not another song you know and I love the song love you Debbie yeah but but I got the I got that song down you know is there another if you're not growing you only have one song you only have one talk you only have one book but how do I keep adding value to people I keep learning and growing myself and basically what I do is what I learn I just pass on to people as quickly as I can that is fulfilling I'm just curious I think when people hear that they think hey you say in the book anybody can transform their life but does that really apply to me can anyone actually changed their world and I'd like you and I love the question and I think that here's here's where the Miss is I think that most of the time when we're talking about positive change we leave it to others because we really don't think that we're probably capable of doing it uh in fact I call the book change your world not change the world uh change the world's too big it it it's it's overwhelming so I I'm just asking people to go into the world I mean you know your family uh your your friends maybe maybe the a few people that you work with but I'm asking them to to go into that world and become a positive influence positive force with the people around them and what really excites me about the book and our time together today is that the book is has no theory in it it's it's all uh proven uh work it it's I'm not throwing out a book and saying I think maybe if we did this that we could change our work world and where where I'm not hyping people or you know Pie in the Sky stuff we're not going to Disneyland today it's it's it's just stuff that it works and I know it works because I've been able to see it firsthand I've been able to lead it and uh and to be able to put a book like this in the hands of any person and have them not have a false promise but have a true promise that they can really make a difference with someone else is just an incredible feeling so I I can say uh you know I've written 86 books so that's a few and by the way that's no hey anded when you think about it that's no big deal uh I mean You' got to be old you got to be old if you're if you're not old you can't write 86 books so I tell people know relax take a pill it's not that big of a deal you just have to be old to 86 books but of the 86 books that I've done this one is the most fulfilling it's a it's a timely book it's very timely but I'm very excited because what do leaders do and leaders offer hope in the darkest hour yeah and and and honestly when crisis comes you separate the players from The Pretenders real quick and and and so we're in a crisis and and I'm giving an opportunity for all of us to be players you know I noticed John I noticed that by the way on the book I was going to ask you that it didn't say change the world it said change your world that was one of the things I actually wanted to ask you about and so you you kind of started out there and like most of John's books guys it goes right into the granular like here's what you do and that hope topic you have this great term in there called a possibilist you need to become a possibilist what is that explain don't you love that word huh I love it I love it it took me about a month to learn how to say it so let's start there I got it out of the way early in the interview I'm like I'm gonna say this correctly early yeah I I I I I I could write it before I could say it but I love it because what what this a possess is a person who does doesn't deny reality I mean they don't have their head in the sand they don't say they're they're not just an optimist and everything's good and everything's going to come out okay without any kind of uh substantial support to their statement a possibilist sees reality sees the downside but also sees the possibility and and by the way I think that's the I think that's what a leader is I think a leader sees reality and in fact you know Max Dei say the first responsibility of a leader Edge is to Define reality so we we don't do our people a favor when we when we leave reality in fact I think reality is the foundation of building a dream I I you know I watch people try to build a dream without reality and I want to walk into their life and say it's not going to happen you gotta you got to you've got to the foundation of reality is what is solid now you can build something off of it and a possibilist is a person who says this is very difficult time and this is not going to be easy easy and it's not going to be quick uh and it's not going to be even sometimes simple but but it can happen and and I'm not only believe it can happen but I'm going to make it happen in other words a Poss list gets involved it's awful easy to be an optimist on the sideline but when you've got to go in the game all of a sudden that optimism isn't going to show anything in your game you got to be able to provide the the resources and support to make the make the game a winner for you so I love the word because it it says we're going to we're going to we're not going to deny reality but we're also going to not deny possibility yeah and and you know some people they go to reality and lose possibility and then some people go to possibility and lose reality a Poss says I take both of them with me does that make sense totally makes sense I've have not heard it said that way because I talk a lot about operating out of your imagination and not your memory or your history I think a lot of people just just keep operating out of their memory and their history they don't give themselves the gift of being what I call a possibility thinker and I love possibilist it's so beautiful because now what you've added to that though that is really valid is you also have to Define reality I think a lot of times these you know you got to dream big you got have possibilities but defining where you are is the place you're going to begin and what I love about the book actually for me I you know I'm trying to in my life you know I have different businesses and so as I was reading the book I'm like this really applies to turning around this one particular part of my life and my business and I was fascinating because John L's foundations guys it steps in this book and I thought it was interesting that really you start sort of with values and that that's sort of the foundation of transformation I think this is valuable because if you've been hurt through what's going on in the economy right now and in the world and you're like where the heck do I begin to turn my world around John recommends you start with getting clear again on your value so talk about that a little bit John it's beautiful and I not read that anywhere else well and thanks for bringing that up and you know I if it's okay I would like to give all all of your people of behind the scenes it's not in the book at all but but but but it's I want I'd like to give context I'd like to pull back the curtain for a moment yeah because I gotta go C back to 2002 and if you go back there I mean if you picked up a the Time magazine in 2002 they summarized that year as the year of distrust because that all I got to do is say Enron okay yeah that that that was the year when when corporate scandals were rampant and and what we said we were and what we were was not the same thing and employees got hurt and clients got hurt and corporations just went Belly Up and all kind of bad things happened I was writing at that time for Time Warner and Larry kpom who was the CEO of the book division of Time Warner called me up to New York City we had a long dinner and he said John I want you to write a book on business ethics for us I we just really need this voice in America right now and I I told him I said I can't and he said why why can't you I said because there's no such thing is business ethics and he looks at me and he said what do you mean look what's happening in the business world I said I know I understand that but there's still no such thing as business ethics I said there's just ethics just ethics it's not business ethics it's not home ethics it's not Community ethics it's not relationship it's it's ethics and and either you have them or you don't and by the way if you have them they work in business oh happy day okay we're cooking you with me so so so he gets it real quick and he oh I got it he said well can you write a book on ethics and I said I I'm not sure he said okay you're holding back on me again what are you and I said how do you write a book I mean ethics is all about doing the right thing for the right reason regard of the situation I said how can you write a book on ethics when there's no truth or absolutes I I I mean in a world of relativism H how do you get anything substantial and I said you're going to have to give me a little time to see if I can write the book on it and so I went with way with my research writing team we talked about it a lot and we finally came up with an answer so I wrote the book on ethics and the answer was very simple we wrote the book based on the Golden Rule yeah treat other people as you like to be treated yourself beautiful and our research team found out that every religion in the world and every culture in the world has the Golden Rule so it it's not like I'm telling them something they don't already know or probably haven't even embraced so we wrote that book and it was a game changer I mean I was interviewed by Chicago Tribune Wall Street Journal I went to West Point I mean I went to places and they said talk to us about and and all of a sudden the light turned on in my life and I realized back in 2002 that the the golden rule was is nothing more than a good value the go this is a good value treat others as you want to be treated it's a good value all of a sudden I thought good values can make us become good Fe people if we learn them and if we live them and so I began to although I trained leadership skills and everybody knows that I develop leaders I got that part I said I I want to do more than help people with leadership skills I want to help people not only be trained leaders I want to help them be transformational leaders very good and transformation is an inside job it's a it's a values issue and and it's one thing okay let me give you an example yeah I'm known for the statement everything Rises and falls on leadership yep that's the that's the that's the that's the good and the Ugly the good and the bad of leadership Rises or Falls you got a bad leader Falls good leader fall now what makes leadership rise Ed two things competence in other words you have to be a good leader and good values and you can't divorce them you you can't you you you're not going to rise if you have great skills but you have terrible values yeah and and and if you have great values but you have terrible skills you can't lead anybody I mean you know the good news is they're a friend but they aren't going to take you anywhere right and and so the falls on leadership is when you have bad values and you have bad bad B bad leadership skills and so all of a sudden I realize that here we've been training people to lead in leadership skills and we train we train them on what to do and they know how to do the right thing but we haven't trained him to be right w we haven't trained him to be the right person I felt like John I didn't mean to jump in but I felt like it's one of the Revolutionary parts of the book is the part on transformation tables is that you make change in groups and it made me think a couple things guys on values as I read the book and I did the values assessment myself I think one of the reasons for all of you that are trying to make change I think if you want it to be longterm start different this time start with your values that's the foundation that'll be that'll be Everlasting I mean your values will evolve obviously over time but the other thing that happens when you take inventory of your values I think and it helped me is I've been talking a lot lately about you've got to believe you're worthy of success you got to give yourself more credit for your intentions not enough I think everyone predicates I could be successful as you said when I'm completely ready or when I've got all the answers or I've got this amazing ability to execute well how about you deserve the win because you're a good human because you intend to make a difference there's a lot to be said in this world right now for just somebody with great intentions and not enough good people give themselves credit for having good intentions delivering on their self-confidence because they don't take an inventory of it and then when you set up these transformation tables he talks about you'll discuss them but I think it begins to grow within you and so I I just think there so many granular things like that in the book you also talk in the book John you don't have to list them all if you don't want to but I just think his stuff is so real there's like eight like eight streams of influence that you talk about and why they're necessary to for transformation if you want to go through all eight you're welcome to but if you could at least make some reference to it I just feel like it'd be so valuable for someone watching this right now or taking notes or maybe they're about to pull over to the side of the road so they can write these down the reason I love to be on your show is you know how to bring the best out of the person you interview you're a master at it you really are Ed you're a pro and and and I got I I'll go to the eight streams but you know when you when you just when you talked about people with good intentions that all of a sudden we give them courage we you know what we let people that have had good intentions and a good heart out of the closet yeah yeah we let them we we say you can get out the closet you don't have to stay there anymore and we're going to give you a simple game plan that and you don't have to start big do do you have five friends do you have four friends do you have three friends that you'd be willing to get together with and and just work through these values and I I just love what you said because I thought to myself wow I wish I would have written it as good as you said it as as far as we we just really help people who really would like to make a difference but have never had the courage or the confidence yeah the think you it's always kind of been somebody else is going to have to make a difference I'm just going to hope and pray for it right and and all of a sudden no no no you can you can walk out of the closet now and you can start doing it and so that that that transformation that magic happens there we may come back to the table a little bit because yes interaction interaction hearing other people discuss their their difficulties and and and issues just really helps bring everybody out let's stay there for second John I think it's too valuable so it reminded me almost like if you go to church there's you know you go to church every Sunday but then sometimes there's like a small group yes where you sit around in fellowship and you you'll share a scripture and discuss it and then it grows and you come back I think it's I think it's you're right let's just finish that for a second what is a transformation table specifically and how do I begin to build one oh my gosh okay well it's a small group of people I you know six eight you could get up to 10 but don't you know keep it small keep it small and it's but it's a place where everybody roots for everybody uh there's no judgment there uh we don't need any teachers there we don't even call them they're facilitators there's one person that may say okay you can you you you share next but but but it it's it's a we're in this together and all we're wanting to do is improve each other and so it's one for all for one you can call us the six Musketeers around the around the transformation table or whatever you want to call but here's what's beautiful here's why the table works at okay there are three questions that people ask that if they can get those answered it brings life change to them and they always ask it about somebody that's leading them okay and and these are the three when I spoke at the United Nations a few years ago when I did the opening session at the United Nations to all the ambassadors of the world I I spent two hours on these three questions but these are these are the three every follower ask a leader basically these three questions now they don't ask them personally but intuitively they're following for a reason and the reason is they're looking at that person whoever it is that's leading and they're asking the questions first of all do you care for me yeah secondly can you help and thirdly can I trust you those are the three questions in the table here's what makes the transformation table magic those three questions are answered every time you meet this is life change and when I'm teaching those three questions can be asked but I can't answer him to a crowd when I'm reading it when I'm writing a book they can pick up the book and they can be reading it but but those three questions can't be answered at long distance through on a page you could put people around the table Ed and all of a sudden the trust Factor begins to increase because people begin to be vulnerable trust is is built out of vulnerability it's not built out of covering and you know authenticity is is is essential and and all of a sudden you've got people helping each other and you don't have professionals helping each other you have friends helping each other and let me tell you the difference between a professional help is they'll tell you what you need to know a friend help help will say I'll walk with you wow that's crazy oh that was so good I'm so glad I got Aaron in this room to get this content for me I got my my contact curator in here and it's just becomes absolutely lifechanging fire and and I want you to know it's it's it's it's like social trust social trust every country that does well every Community does well Ed has social Trust and any country that doesn't do well lacks it and social trust is is I trust you I trust you to do what you ought to do most of the time and when there's distrust I don't trust you to do what you ought to do most of the time and if you can see we we've got a trust fall in America right now a major trust fall no question and somebody needs to speak about this issue now watch this is huge we have got a trustful and and we're looking at each other and we're saying oh my gosh and it's it's we're divided and you and against me and and we got our issues and the whole and we and and we've totally lost our way around the table that all disappears you've got people that are friends and they're saying well let me tell you how how what happened with me in that area and and and you got you've got support I mean it's it's it it's it's like AA meetings I mean there's a reason that they've worked for decades it there's a reason there's a com there's a community at a table that you can get nowhere else and so what we've watched is as we've done we've now put um add two and a half million people through these tables so we we we I mean it's not like we tried a table last week and we wrote a book about it right we think it might work yeah and we have story after Story of life change and the life change comes when people just are sitting around that table and they're finding out yes uh you you care for me yes you are helping me and oh yes I do trust you and now there is a safe place for people to have change because change is not easy you you referred to that earlier when you know people change when they heard enough they have to they they see enough that they're inspired to you know they learn enough that they're change is not easy but around the table change is as easy as it's ever going to come yeah because you're not doing it by yourself and that's so it's exting it's huge you said by the way what you establish that table is social trust in that community and guys listen we're we're just getting in here we've already talked about the fact yes you can make transformation yes you need to be a possibilist yes it starts with your values the way you go out and do that is you go out and create one of these transformation tables these are real applicable things you can do right now that can begin to create the transformation in your world these are real things John I read the book and uh there's a group of kind of you know influences I guess you call them that are friends of mine that we've all sort of said hey let's get together one-on-one and I actually took the transformational table concept and next Friday I'm doing that with a group of men and women that are in this group and I said I want to sit I want to begin to build my own transformation table I'm not the leader of it I want it to be a community and I and I said to them actually ironically that I wanted to build social trust and I've learned the three keys of leadership from John Maxwell when you guys hear me talk about those three keys now you know where I got them so you know I'm coachable to John on these things because I know and by the way when I think of John I think of values when I think of someone who sustained a career this long that so many of us that are in this space look to as somebody that we admire that's had sustaining impact and value like John has it's because of these reasons these are the reasons why I love John so he's being humble but he's lived many of these things for years and years and years which is why he's who he is so I interrupted you on the eight streams of influence because the transformation table is so died gum good but I know that's one of the things after values that's necessary for transformation so let's at least give them the gift of that wisdom as well yeah I will and by the way you just because you keep saying things that trigger me it's your fault that we don't get to the eight streams because because it's your fault Ed because let me just say something I have fulfillment in accomplishing things that I can do but I have much greater fulfillment multiplied fulf fillment in helping other people accomplish things that they've never done before and that's why change your world is so exciting to me because I've got this down I've done transformation tables I'll keep doing transformation tables Margaret and I took a cruise about 18 months ago a Disney cruise a great Disney Cruise with our grandchildren and every day we went through another value we finish the Disney cruise we go to four different countries we got Mickey we got goofy we got them all running around we've got him in the parade we've got him doing everything I sit down I say okay cuz I always do this at the end of a trip I always ask my kids my grandkids what did you love what did you learn wow so good always because experience isn't the best teacher you know it's evaluated experience to teach okay all five of my grandchildren what did you love Goofy Mickey Mouse parade Papa we love sitting around the table with you and Mimi oh and learning values and discussing them I mean these little kids would get around I'm talking about their their all my kids are teenagers they would get around I I remember that I'll never forget the moment when John my my number three grandchild in one of the values was very open and honest about a very difficult time he was going through and the next thing I knew his cousins and his sister and his brother were around him and they had their arms around him and they were loving on him and they decided to pray for him Beautiful lifechanging Life Changing Life Chang it can only happen at the table okay now wow it never I eight streams of influence I knew we would do this again I knew it well it's magic it's your fault Ed I hey I've had to help interviewers finish their program right okay yeah I know when I'm with you I just sit there and I say jump in and the flow Edge flow will take you wherever you want to go and you do you do it so well but leadership everything wres and falls on leadership so in every community in every country there are eight streams of influence we we this is just well documented we've got it down government business education media arts family uh religion and and and and uh Health okay now these are the eight streams of influence we only go into the country when we get permission from the top of those people and and here's what's key so the President says we want you to come in we say well to the president will you and your cabinet go through transformation tables you when the Supreme Court Justice I said now will you and your Supreme will you will you start a transformation table and and we go right to the top and and and if they won't we vet countries and we don't go because because they won't here's what we found I have I have seven companies but one of my companies is is a is a uh leadership training company and and and what here's what we discovered this is huge the major difference between success and failure in a company when we're doing leadership training with them there there's one indicator and we can tell it on day one whether they're going to make it or not there's one indicator of whether it's going to be successful or not and here it is when the leaders buy into the program and they go to the program themselves it's going to be successful interesting if they have the program pay all the money and resources and send their people it's not going to go people do what people see and so the Buy in is the fact that in those eight streams at the very top they say yes and they get involved now what does influence do influence just filters down got it through the whole country got it and through the whole culture very good and so what so what no matter what stream your listeners are with me on right today no matter what stream they're in this really works and and I'm going to give you one example I can give you 100 but I'm going to give you one it that's the in in Guatemala we've been doing transformation tables teaching values to the second largest bank in the country it has 10,000 employees okay so it's a big bank so the CEO after they've done this for two years the CEO asked me to come down he said I have 2,000 of our clients that I'm bringing together and I want you to talk to them about change your and transformation tables and values because he said it's so changed our company I want I want to help our clients and so I said I would so he introduces me 2,000 clients out there and here's what he says for two years we've been doing transformation tables in our business three positive outcomes number one our bottom line the profit better than it's ever been by in fact he said it increased 36% last year now why why did the bottom line do so well we teach values yeah hard work industry honesty Integrity teamwork his employees are are are learning all these values and all of a sudden they start to to live them and embrace them now bottom line profit number one number two he said we now have a leadership culture in our company he said we didn't have a leadership culture here there you go he said and where did they get their leaders in the tables because Ed if you're not at a table one week you'll you'll facilitate that table and you'll take whatever value that comes up next week the person beside you facilitates it and we go we we we we pass the leadership baton around and and how do you develop leaders by practicing leaders how do you know you have leaders by watching them practice very good and he said all of a sudden leaders are popping up he said we have more leaders now than we have positions for them now that's a pleasant thing to have number three and this is the one that really got me so good he said the families of our employees have beautifully changed what are they doing they're taking those values they've learned at work and by the way every week 45 minutes they the banks all shut down we do the tables on on on Bank time hey they go home to their families say here's what we're discussing this week it bleeds right into the families and all a sudden the family gets better so good that's why I love what this work this is okay I wrote a book but I I I'm wanting to create a movement yeah and that's what I'm passionate about it's it's and and movements don't start with a m they start with them few you know mass movements never start with a mask when Gandhi left prison and started going to the by the time he got to the Sea he had a million but he only had six with him in the beginning so let's let's hey he just had one transformation table in the beginning and by the time he got there he had a million and and we think we have the possibility through this book to to start a positive movement of of values learning living and embracing and and and that's G to be fun and the way that you do it John is worth see I think watching what Jon's doing not only in the content but the way in which he's creating the movement so for me I I don't always just watch the execution I also watch the the ex the person executing I shouldn't say executioner but the person doing the executing and one of the things you talk about in the book and I want people to go read the book so we'll only cover one or two more things in it but the truth is you talk about moving from me to we yeah and that's I think so many leaders unknowingly still sort of make what's happening about them and they're not cognizant enough of making it about the we and I don't think any great movement has ever happened without a cause and I don't know that enough Business Leaders are aware of turning their business into a cause and for me I've done that in business but when I read the book I'm like have I done that in my family I'm the leader of my family what's the cause of our family what's our family's Mission that's why what you just said about the cruise really made an impact on me so can you just speak to that a little bit yeah I'll be glad to because I think that we you know Stephen Cy said begin with the end in mind and and and and when I wrote intentional living it was whole the whole deal is most people accept their life instead of lead their life and so when we talk about this movement and what we're trying to create first of all it starts with credibility uh a cause without credibility won't go anywhere I know a lot of people they have really good values and a really good cause but they're not credible they can't say but we've done it and and and you know if I haven't done it all I can do is tell yeah but when I've done it I can show and tell and show and tell is about a 100 to one more powerful than just tell and and and so you know when when a lot of times books are tell and there's nothing wrong with that in fact I loved what you said about your imagination a while ago and I think so many people cut themselves short because they don't allow their imagination to take them to where their potential could be but but what I do know is this that in the cause the cause has to be a positive cause that adds value to people let me just say you can't sustain a movement out of negativity we've got a lot of negativity in our country right now you can't sustain negativity it it people wear out with there's only so I there's only I can only curse the darkness so long yeah I I I mean until okay now I've cursed the darkness and it's really dark and we've cursed a lot and nothing's happened hey hey this book is quit cursing the darkness and go turn on the light oh God this is a turn on the light book this is a turn on the light movement in other words you've got to be for something the moment that you're for something that catch this adds value to the people this is not a movement that adds value to me when you talked about me to we a moment ago Ed you're so right on my friend you're so right on the vision never is sustaining if it's about me I mean if I'm saying hey Ed join my team hey come on into my hey get into my coaching company hey get you know get on my leadership train well how many M do you need to hear before you sit there and say boy you know I think I I think I'm John's slave here I I I think you know no no no no it's the first thing that has to happen is that you've got to take the vision from me to we Ed The Vision Works when all of a sudden you're not talking about John Maxwell's book you when you go to your friends you say let me tell you something this book helped me now it's contagious it now has legs it's it's not like well John has a book out here no no they don't care about John Maxwell they care about the fact that it's helped you now that it's helped you you there's a difference between being a vision caster and being a vision carrier what's casting Vision you can just cast you know oh well this is good old throw that out cast that out you know here we go the moment you're a carrier you cast The Vision because of who you are you're so stinking contagious that everybody catches it they catch it because you won't let them not catch it you won't shut up about it you be and why because it's you it's changed you and all of a sudden it's made a difference in Ed's life not Maxwell's life it's not about me it's all about you and when you go to your group you know Friday night and you go bring that book and you start sharing what it's helping you do I all of a sudden they're they're in the game they're in the game I got I'm listening to you I'm just thinking you know you're such a treasure I I don't I you know and I don't mean to just I'm just speaking what I feel when I talk with you and I'm curious John so by the way what you just said I have to just add one thing to it I recently interviewed Martin Luther King III and we were talking obviously a lot about his dad crate just this little movement you know uh only one of the greatest movements in the last 100 years probably arguably the greatest movement in the last 100 years years and um I was golfing this week with a buddy of mine and he goes that guy was Martin Luther King was awesome he was Against Racism I said that's not right he was for equality he was for justice he was for Unity you don't create a movement that lasts this long being against something there's nothing wrong with having an adversary that you're against but Jesus Christ's great movement wasn't just against the adversary it was for our Salvation if you're a person of Faith that's what endures and so I just want to second that but when I look at you we are going to talk about John Maxwell for a second I'm listening to this man who's been at this for more than one decade put it put it mildly and I'm watching him at the top of his game I've known him a while I've read I haven't read every one of the 86 books but I've read a lot of them and way before we met you all heard me singing the Praises of John Maxwell and I'm watching you I'm like he's better than he's ever been is there something that you could impart to all of us about you're on the top of your game how do you do that to sustain that level of what's the what's the mechanism that drives you to stay at this level or even keep keep getting better I I love the questions you ask I mean you go right to my heart every time first of all I am getting better I am at the top of my game I'm set I turned 74 on Saturday February 20th so I I I I turned 74 so okay now get this and I'm in my best days but my best days today are because when I was in my 20s I had a mentor share with me that growth was not automatic that if I was going to personally grow I was going to have to dig for it and be intentional in it and that getting older is automatic getting better is not and and and so once I understood the difference I said okay I've got to get a game plan for my personal growth and I did and and my game plan for personal growth over the years has been quite simple it's just it it deals around re uh relationships equipping attitude and Leadership and and and if you'll read my books B almost all my books are either in relationship equipping attitude or leadership uh category and and I did that because I came to the conclusion at 27 that if I could teach people how to do those four things really well they could pretty much be successful in any kind of venture that they have because I mean if you're good with people relationally if you know how to equip people and build yourself a team if you know if you got an attitude that can handle covid-19 and and and adversity and if you and if you can lead and Influence People pretty much you're in in the game of success so I said every day I'm going to learn how to relate better equip better attitude better lead better I'm going to live in this world and and and I I didn't become goal oriented I became more values oriented and I think this is a difference I'm not I'm not opposed to goal oriented at all I but let me tell you something if you're growth oriented you'll hit all your goals that's right but if you're goal oriented and not growth oriented and every time you hit a goal you know what you do you go to the game What's Next okay now what do I do I okay I just made this much money oh my gosh I okay I got this position and okay I bought that house now what do I do and and and to take the what do I do out of your life just begin to grow now stay right with me what happens because I grow and have done this for we're about 50 years now on it I have increased my growth capacity this is where people miss my growth capacity is huge humongus it's like going to the gym hey you you increase physical pass it's it's it's like reading you increase mental capacity well I've increased growth capacity my growth capacity is much larger than most people's not because I'm smarter than most people it's because I've been doing it for 50 years I've got a I've got a long Runway now so my growth capacity allows me to grow more faster and compounded more than other people because consistency compounds yeah so at this stage of the game everything I touch gets bigger and better but it's because my capacity is growing Now put on top of that I don't think there's a Finish Line so I'm not running a finite game now you know Simon senic wrote a great book called The Infinite game it's a phenomenal book he's a good friend and and it's a great game and and basically Simon I'm going to write a book and I was already going to write it before Simon's and now I told Simon going to write it and just make it better than his but but but I I I'm going to write a book I'm kidding he he's a phenomenal writer I'm going to write a book in title is there a Finish Line so good and for and Ed for most people the answer is yes most people have what I call a self-imposed Finish Line when I get to this age I'm going to quit when when I make this much money I'm going to quit and and and and so they they they they put their lines out there now if I put a Finish Line out there you know I hey I'm 74 I'm going to I'm going to quit I'm not going to work anymore okay whatever what what people don't understand is when you cross that self-imposed Finish Line guess what you're finished you're finished it's over but if you live with no Finish Line it's never over what does that do that keeps me in the game W it keeps me excited about what's happening because I'm never GNA finish I'm gonna die but I'm never gonna when by the way when I came into the game the game was already started I didn't start the game and and it's noty it's certainly going to not end when I leave it I mean you know I tell people when they think that they're indispensable I say die and just find out how good we get along without you I oh my gosh nobody's indispensable so so it's okay so but what this allows me to do is it allows me to stay fresh it stay it allows me to ask questions it allows me to stay curious be because I understand my growth capacity is great and I'm playing in a game that never is finished I gotta tell you John in my career doing this that's one of my favorite answers of all time of anything I've ever asked somebody and for all of you leaders out there wow not having a Finish Line you know I I put a couple in my life on myself self-imposed Finish Lines and as I got closer to them they just evaporated and I just quit doing it now I've sort of decided to be the way that you are but the other thing that gives you hope is that as you work on growing yourself you increase your capacity to grow even more I've never heard that said before i' I've never heard that said before but I gotta that's more fire because I have experienced that you know trying to keep my humility but I've experienced that in my own life like my capacity to grow exponentially is much greater now than it was even 10 years ago because I've been growing and I never really thought I think we think the reverse well I've grown so much there's just not that much more to go but that's it's the reverse that's brilliant it's totally the the more you grow the more you have to grow the more it's it's like the more you know the more you know you know what the more you know the more you know you don't know that's so true the only people that the only people that think they know something are people who know nothing so true the only people that think that they've all stopped growing are people that never grew it's so true is there something let me ask you a very hard question go ahead can I ask you a hard question have you well I I may not be able to answer it but you could ask it what did you all through all this growth is there something that you used to believe about leadership to be true that you no longer do that you've you've evolved out of that belief system oh is there you're making your face like there's a lot we could do an hour let me tell you something if you really are growing you know Gandhi talked about a false position and and his false position basically was that you try to hold on if you're growing growth means change which means you can't hold on to things that you one time thought were true or you believed because you're evolving and you're getting better I let's put it this way when I was 25 I had a lot of certainties at 74 I have very few interesting yeah that's interesting because because life has taught me that it's not always black and white it's not either or it's not it it's many times a combination and and but now here's what's beautiful I have less if if I had a thousand certainties at 24 at 74 I have 10 okay but can I tell you something about those 10 I'm more certain about those 10 than I ever have been before they've been tested and can I tell you something a certainty that hasn't been tested can't be trusted oh and so and so this whole process of growth means I am not the same so people that knew me 20 years ago it's it's like it's like the guy who came up to me I was speaking at the conference and he said oh my gosh this was amazing he said I wish you I could have heard you 20 years ago and I smiled and I said no you don't I said no no no he said I wish I could Hur I said no you don't and he said well if I would have heard 20 years ago what I heard today he said it would have changed my life I said if you had have heard me 20 years ago you would have heard what you heard today that's awesome that's so good I'm growing I'm growing I'm evolving I wasn't I didn't come out of my mother's womb with the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership right right it's a it's a process does that make sense totally makes sense and I think everyone listening this should be ging Hope from this that if you start on this journey of establishing your values and getting people sitting at the table with you and being a a possibilist and committing to being a grower and getting to that place where people believe you can help them and that they can trust you and these things are Priceless and for me to hear about the finish line today is something that I needed to evaluate way there's just so many things go ahead can I tell you a quick story yes please it's about the Finish Line because you said something about you had a couple Finish Lines that were kind of self-imposed and they got there and they faded let me tell you because I could tell you see what I really love was when I have time is to talk about all the mistakes failures and stupid things that I've done because I you I've often said if you want to hear my success we can do that in a day if you want to hear about my stupidity this is gonna be a weak series and and and and so I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna tell you let me tell you a real I had I had read this story about this guy that was a radio ham operator and and he said something about he' taken the last marble out of his basket and the basic story was that he put like five years of marbles for every week and every week he'd go and he'd take a marble out and he was in a countdown and and this morning I took my last marble out of my basket and and I thought oh my gosh I think because I was wanting to turn the companies over to Mark Cole and and I was wanting to pass on a lot of stuff I said I I'm going to get me a a a a a jar so that you could and you could see these Marbles and I put in like three and a half years of marbles and and I told Mark I told the whole company in three and a half years I'm gone so just understand this it's it's over okay and and and so every every week I'd say Mark you take a marble out of that you know here come the you the marbles start going smaller and smaller how stupid stupid stupid can you be and and so and it was can I tell I'll tell you how stupid I was I was losing my marbles okay that's how stupid I come on that's so good so I and I get I literally get in front of of a lot of the people who knew me well and I had this big jar of marbles up here and they had heard the marble story and I said I just want you to know I was so stupid I was so wrong I I mean who wants to live their life like cape canaval in a count town you what I'm saying I mean who wants to do a and and I picked up that I'll never forget I took that that that jar Marbles and I just threw them on the floor you did and they just bounced everywhere and I told him I said I'm never going to do this to me again I'm not in a countdown I'm only in a make your life count mode and and and I hey I I I and people today they're on my team they say I'll never forget the day you lost your marbles and that's wonderful but but there's no finish line there's no no I'm gonna live till I die and not get the too confused oh gosh I'd love you I wish there was no finish line for this conversation it it I I don't want there to be there isn't for you and I but there will be for the audience and I just I just love you and I just think you're incredible you make me think you make me laugh you make me passionate you've increased my faith um I want to be more like you um I'm G to ask you a final question um but before I do I just want to say this again guys go get this book change your world John Maxwell Maxwell Rob Hoskins and you just can see we've touched on we've scratched the surface of what's in this book and it will change your world if you do the things in this book I can't express that enough what I'd like you to do last John is I know everybody's hearing these things and we've covered a lot of very practical things to do but I think lastly people listening to this are saying you know I need a little hope I need you talk about Hope a great deal in the book by the way and I I I heard you say in the beginning anybody can change your life but I want to go back to that lastly is there some if if I walked into you I ran into you in a Starbucks said Mr Maxwell I I've lost my business the last year I've lost my family I've lost all my money I've gained a bunch of weight I I'm a little bit in despair right now and uh but I'm a good man or I'm a good woman and I'd like to make a difference in my world and maybe eventually the world what would you say just lastly parting words to someone who asked you that question that's a great question I I said it the F first part of the book Ed I I I wrote these words that the people will read when they pick it up hope has two beautiful daughters anger encourage anger at the way things are encourage to make a difference I would tell people hope has to have anger you have to be discontented with where you are you you you can't be in no change happens in a comfort zone in fact everything Co was Wonder covid-19 was wonderful in the fact that it got everybody out the comfort zone everything a person wants or everything a person needs but they don't have is outside of their comfort zone if it was in their comfort zone they'd already have it and so so so this is huge so this is huge you got to have anger you got to say I'm disturbed I'm not where I want to be I don't like this position this is that's a healthy anger that's a healthy anger because that's that's stir you out of the comfort zone and then you have to have courage to go into new territory where you've never been before for and walk that's why I love the book I'm taking people on a tour with this book in other words if you'll have the courage to change your road you say I've never changed anything in my life I I hardly change my bed okay if I I if if you're willing to walk in this new Virgin Territory for you I will walk with you and I'll make sure that you get to the end and for the first time maybe in your life you'll say I did something that was really positive that made a difference in someone else's life life and that's where fulfillment comes in so it takes it takes anger and courage and and you can't anger without courage you curse the darkness courage with the anger is is you won't you won't pay the price you got to have them [Music] both he