Transcript for:
John Wesley's Doctrine of Sin and Grace

[Music] okay we've been talking about wesley's doctrine of sin and grace and we've been discussing uh original sin and its consequence uh upon humanity uh and so wesley's conclusion of this discussion wesley's conclusion of this discussion can be expressed in a number of things that he has written and so i want to read to you um what wesley taught in this area in terms of a conclusion that if we consider what wesley calls the natural person and the natural person you have to understand this clearly the natural person is a person apart from all the grace of god so if we consider a person apart from all god's grace what does that look like okay what does that look like and wesley is going to argue that the natural man is wholly corrupted that sin has now become natural and that holiness is not so holiness is not so he's also going to argue that the whole nature is corrupted therefore the whole nature the whole nature must be renewed it must be renewed okay and so if we take a look at wesley's sermon on original sin because he not only wrote a very large treatise on original sin but he also wrote a smaller sermon and again he's talking about the natural person the natural man sometimes he uses that expression sometimes he uses the natural state and by that he means a person apart from all grace and and here's what he writes from all these we learn concerning man in his natural state unassisted by the grace of god that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart is evil only evil and that continually okay and so we're seeing here the extent the extensiveness and the depth uh the consequences of sin in in the life so he raises this question in the sermon but was there not any good any good mingled mingled with the evil listen to wesley now no none at all none at all god saw that the whole imagination of the heart of man was only evil okay and so wesley understands original sin essentially as unbelief as unbelief radical alienation separation from god out of that unbelief arises sinful pride sinful pride the curving in on oneself uh so apart from the grace of god apart from the grace of god wesley's going to write we are all atheists in the world for god is not in our thoughts uh we are marked by pride and self-will love of the world desire of the eye desire of the flesh and the pride of life okay now wesley's going to make sure that we get the point and so he's going to emphasize it and here's what he writes in terms of emphasis allow that humanity is holy fallen and you are so far a christian deny it and you are but a heathen still and so wesley is making this a crucial issue he affirms in his doctrine of the fall that adam and eve were wholly fallen they were totally corrupted and so humanity is wholly fallen and if you deny that if you deny that they are holy fallen wesley's going to argue you are but a heathen still so you can see how poor important this teaching is to the christian faith okay so we see again wesley using language when he's describing the fall that looks very similar to calvin to john calvin he writes again for example quote know that thou art corrupted in every power in every faculty of thy soul that thou art totally corrupted in every one of these all the foundations being out of course wesley writes that in his sermon the way to the kingdom so you can see when he's describing the fall and when he's describing the natural person or the natural state that is what is a human being apart from all the grace of god he brings out all these negative superlatives totally fallen utterly corrupted uh etc etc and so uh there are two conclusions two conclusions that come out of wesley's doctrine of original sin because original sin is the effect the consequence what is communicated to all of humanity through the fall and there are two consequences here that help us to understand original sin first the first to help us understand original sin all people all people stun stand under the condemnation of god with but one exception that one exception is jesus right okay so that's the first conclusion in terms of the doctrine of original sin all people stand under the condemnation of god first thing second the second conclusion here that arises out of wesley's doctrine of original sin that people cannot bring about redemption by themselves people cannot bring themselves back into a right relationship to god they cannot do that by themselves we expressed that before in other language we said that people cannot solve this problem because they are the problem they are the problem uh they are in a perverted relationship to god and so you know when we hear this language in wesley these negative superlatives i've totally fallen utterly corrupted it does indeed sound like john calvin and indeed in the early 20th century there was a professor of professor cell who wrote a book the rediscovery of wesley and he argued that wesley's doctrine of original sin was extremely similar to that of calvin and luther and this is what george crossell wrote at that time in the early 20th century he wrote this quote the doctrine of sin as developed by wesley is entirely faithful to historic christianity planting his feet identically in footprints made by saint paul augustine luther calvin and so that's what george croft cell has argued but i have to ask the question you know is wesley really similar uh to john calvin uh on the doctrine of original sin i think we have to answer that yes and no yes and no uh the yes part you're already familiar with you've heard the language of total depravity that kind of thing uh and although both wesley and calvin have a doctrine of total depravity uh there are some important differences uh to be to be seen here there are some important differences that we have to take into account because the question is this we've described total depravity utter corruption in terms of the person in the natural state that is apart from all grace and so now we ask the question is there anyone is there anyone who has no grace of god is there anyone apart from all grace of god in other words today for example is there anyone apart from all the grace of god and wesley's answer is no because every person and this gets to your question earlier every person even those outside the church have a measure of grace and we speak about grace as the presence of god in our lives that's what grace is that's a way of understanding grace grace is the presence of god in our lives and the consequences thereof um and wesley is going to maintain um that there is no person who is apart from all grace because in the wake of sin in the wake of total depravity utter corruption if god does not act if god does not act first and give prevenient grace then salvation is not possible not salvation is not possible because you're dead in your sins you're utterly fallen totally corrupted you're not even in a condition of being savable okay you're utterly fallen totally corrupted and so god will act first that's why it's called convenient grace that grace which goes before god is always ahead of us god is always ahead of us and god conveniently gives grace so that there's not a man or woman today who does not have a measure of grace so in terms of your example early of my uh that person who you know who is good and moral that goodness that they have what goodness that they have is also come from god because god is the center of all goodness the problem is they don't acknowledge its source okay and so for example when they love their children they love their children that's a good thing that's a very good thing that is a species of prevenient grace what is its source where does it come from it comes from god it comes from god and and god's grace is in their lives but it's not being recognized or acknowledged or take the example because we use this example earlier you know we use the example of the alcoholic you know the alcoholic who is struggling you know and then who finally gets sober you know they finally get sober uh and they say you know i don't believe in god i'm an atheist i don't believe in god i don't want that that god language none of that but they get sober and so what is that that too is grace it's prevenient grace and watch this the the god and father of our lord jesus christ is so good and gracious and merciful that god breaks bondages even when people don't acknowledge god that's how good god is that's how merciful that god is okay and so when when that alcoholic gets sober and we rejoice in that that's a wonderful thing when that happens that happens as a consequence of grace prevenient grace it is the prevenient grace of god whether that grace is acknowledged or not in the life of that person god is the source of every good god is the source of every good if you're talking about a genuine good it has a connection to god some people are willing to acknowledge that connection others know we in the church we glorify god because of what god has done the goodness of god so listen to wesley then in as he's describing prevenient grace here no man who is alive is without proving grace and every degree of grace is a degree of spiritual life uh and so you know when we speak about the purely natural person who is apart from all grace well you know that person doesn't exist kind of it's a kind of theoretical construct if you will doesn't exactly exist because every person today has a measure of grace whether that grace is acknowledged in terms of its source or no now by wesley's doctrine of prevenient grace and i'm going to talk about it uh i'm going to talk about it in a number of ways in a few moments but i i just want to make some preliminary observations but by his doctrine of provincial grace wesley held together he could affirm the notion of total depravity okay he affirms total depravity that would be a person apart from all grace he can also affirm that salvation is by grace through faith alone he can affirm that he can also affirm the offer of salvation is to all it's to all people and all people not just christians all people are given prevenient grace all people are giving convenient grace and with the giving of prevenient grace that renders us responsible that renders us responsible and accountable in other words having received some grace we can do something so wesley writes in a in a sermon later on on working out our own salvation and he writes in that sermon god works therefore you can work god works therefore you must work okay in other words that grace the reception of grace the giving of grace implies responsibility and accountability in some sense okay uh so wesley's doctrine of prevenient grace then um let me let me do it this way i'm going to stand up just so i need to walk around move around not just sit all the time i want to talk about prevenient grace now because provina grace is what's going to make wesley's theology different from the theology of john calvin it's going to make wesley's theology different we'll take questions later different than the theology of martin luther okay uh and so in terms of prevenient grace i want to speak initially in terms of convenient grace means in the first sense that god is always ahead of us god is always ahead of us god is always ahead of us uh prevenient meaning literally that which comes before god is always before us when we think of salvation it is not we but god who takes the first step it is god who takes the first step we are wallowing in sin okay now i want to talk about prevenient grace in a second sense of preventing grace in a second sense and in the second sense by prevenient grace i mean we can put the word the english word provina pre meaning before and then this convenient part coming from the latin you know caesar veni veni vidi vicky i came i saw a concord you know coming literally coming uh that which comes before that which comes before that which comes before what that which comes before salvation properly speaking so prevenient grace comes before justifying and regenerating graces okay convenient grace comes before justifying and regenerating graces okay uh and so in that second sense prevenient grace is literally that grace which comes before salvation properly speaking are those who have proven grace are they redeemed the answer is no because prevenient grace though it is a measure of grace and though it is universal okay it does not imply redemption uh because uh redemption would entail what graces would entail redemption justification and regeneration in other words the reception of the forgiveness of sins and the transformation of nature in terms of holiness okay are you with me so far i realized you know this could be a rough roller coaster ride hold on hold on to the straps now uh now we're going to the third level and this is we're going to spend some time with this and you're going to see lots of practical application we're going to take questions yes i'm just simply saying that you know what is preventing grace before and i said prevenient grace is before salvation properly speaking so it is before justification it is before regeneration so those are in other words this this is the answer to the question okay this is the answer to the question okay so if you understand it that way um so now we're ready for the third part okay all right and now we have to express talk about prevenient grace prevenient grace in terms of restored faculties restored faculties what does that mean what does that mean restored faculties okay watch this you already know wesley's teaching on the fall and original sin and what's the result utterly fallen totally corrupted okay so what must god do god must act and cover your methodist ears how must god act sovereignly god must act sovereignly in other words the work of god alone god alone does this so a part of prevenient grace is going to be understood as free grace free grace represents gift it represents the work of god alone what is god going to do sovereignly in the face of human sin and corruption where one is utterly fallen totally depraved god is going to conveniently restore and give what give a measure of freedom that we now have a measure of freedom now it's not absolute freedom but it's a measure of freedom and and in my theology this is not wesley's failure my theology uh in order to be a human a human being you have to have freedom it's integral involved of who we are as persons you'd have to have freedom so what does that mean well in my theology at least anyway uh original sin is so devastating that we're moving away from really what it means to be a person we're moving so far away from the image of god okay and so god acts sovereignly god restores a measure of freedom what kind of freedom is that it's the freedom to receive the grace of god we have the freedom to receive the fur for the grace of god we could receive the grace of god or no okay so we have that kind of freedom okay um so let me let me explain that for you again in language in a way you might understand by an example okay um i do not i well let me back up let's use let's use the example of someone addicted to something whatever you know i don't want to pick on alcoholics because we've been using that so often but uh they are addicted to something uh and this gets us in the area of practical christian discipleship and good counseling you know that sort of thing and the question is when they are in the throw of their bondages do they have freedom do they have the freedom to stop by their own power no no no they don't and indeed they would be referred to by many 12-step programs as powerless powerless you see but we still hold them responsible so if someone goes out gets drunk and gets in a car and kills somebody we hold that person responsible they could have done otherwise we understand that very much in the church they could have done otherwise how by the grace of god they were free to receive the grace of god by means of which they could have done otherwise and so we can hold them responsible you see so this freedom that we're talking about here it's not human autonomy it's not oh i have free will i have free will and i'm free to do this and i'm free to do that no the deeply addicted person is corrupted in the center of their being they don't have that kind of freedom while they're in the midst of their addiction okay they're a slave they're powerless they're in bondage but they still have freedom they have the freedom to receive the grace of god by means of which they can be set free do you see the difference it's that kind of freedom we're talking about here god restores that freedom god gives the one dominated by sin this freedom you have freedom enough to receive the grace of god and through receiving the grace of god you can be really free free indeed free from alcohol cocaine internet pornography whatever it is that you know someone is addicted to or caught up in you'll see um so but what else does god restore conscience do you have a conscience do you do things and even people who care nothing about god do they do things and their conscience bothers them where does conscience come from wesley said it comes from god god gives conscience sovereignly even before we're aware before we're aware that it's present god gives conscience we have a conscience that conscience is the presence of god in the personality remember i talked about grace as the presence of god conscience is a species of prevenient grace it is the presence of god in our lives now that conscience that conscience has a standard it has a standard a rule a norm or judgment so for example the conscience is making judgment oh what you did there was wrong uh what i did there was okay well what's the standard it is the moral law it is the moral law which has been restored in the person in some sense to some degree that god restores the moral law in some sense in the lives of sinners so that the conscience has a standard by which it makes judgment okay so we are talking about the faculties of prevenient grace first in terms of freedom first in terms of freedom secondly in terms of conscience thirdly in terms of a restoration of the moral law in some sense in some sense and then we speak fourthly the fourth aspect of convenient grace in terms of faculties that are restored would be a certain knowledge of the attributes of god attributes of god in other words uh there should be there should be this sense in all people that there is in existence someone greater than ourselves that that god exists now this knowledge which is restored by grace can be denied it can be stifled it can be suffocated rejected whatever but wesley argues it is restored in some sense that as paul talks about in romans 1 we should have a sense of god through the things that have been made that too is a species of grace so what do we have then what do we have we have with the giving of the faculties of prevenient grace we have now accountability and responsibility because people can do otherwise not by their own talents abilities or efforts but through the grace of god which is now present in their lives in terms of these four faculties of prevenient grace god gives them to whom just methodists just christians who does god give this grace to all that's right everyone everyone is a recipient of these things a certain measure of freedom it's not total freedom it's a certain measure of freedom the freedom to receive the grace of god conscience having a conscience uh knowledge of the moral law meaning that the moral law is operative in the conscience as a standard making judgment okay and then there is knowledge of the basic attributes of god that that god exists so that means then with convenient grace with convenient grace with the giving of grace before justification and regeneration that we can do something and so wesley's theology is going to be different from the theology of john calvin and also martin luther here's how you've heard me talk a lot about free grace and this by the way is a species of free grace this convenient grace is given sovereignly by god it's the work of god alone we don't give ourselves our you know our own conscience that faculty that's given to us by god okay uh and so there's going to be a difference here between wesley's theology of prevenient grace and then the theology of luther and calvin because wesley now has this understanding of cooperate grace cooperating grace what does that mean that's that means when we work together with god divine and human cooperation so wesley wrote the sermon on working out our own salvation as i noted before god works therefore you can work god works therefore you must work so let's say for example someone came to wesley you know he's pastoring he's preaching they came to wesley and they said you know john wesley i heard you preach on the market square the other day and i was greatly moved i am not a christian but i would like to become a christian i would like to enter into this path what shall i do do you think john wesley would say well you know just fold your hands do nothing wait until you have faith uh no john wesley is going to tell that person which he did in his counseling you can do something why because god's grace is already in your life god's a prevenient grace is already in your life you can do something because god has already worked god works therefore you can work god works therefore you must work so what can you do well you can serve the poor uh you can minister to people's needs you can go to church you can study the bible you can pray you can fast you can engage in christian conference you can do all of these things as a means of grace meaning that they will be the channels through which god will communicate further grace subsequent grace okay uh and so here we find wesley's understanding of cooperate grace so prevenient grace leads into cooperative grace we are empowered because god has already worked we can do something uh you know and so we can do good leave off evil and be in the means of grace which are the three things of the general rules so wesley's theology here therefore is very different from the theology of john calvin and very different from the theology of martin luther because they don't talk about cooperate grace prior to justification and regeneration because one they were fearful that if you talk about human doing before justification and regeneration you would despoil or ruin justification regeneration but wesley doesn't have that problem because he's arguing that with convenient grace we can do something but prevenient grace is not saving grace it's not a matter that we will be justified on the basis of what we do it's rather that we will receive the grace of god through the means of grace so that's an important difference and so in the end we have to say we have to say that john wesley and john calvin's theology are very very different okay they're very different and that difference can be expressed in terms of prevenient grace prevenient grace okay let's see here um now in its best sense after we receive prevenient grace it should result in what kind of grace what's the next step along the way well yeah prevenient grace is cooperating grace but convicting grace well something before something before saving grace think of it think of a person who has conscience think of a person who has a certain knowledge of the moral law they realize they've done wrong they have guilt in their lives they they know something's wrong they want the goodness of the gospel okay so what's happening the holy spirit conviction that's right conviction conviction and that is another way of saying prevenient grace it's convincing grace that's what prevenient grace is here it's convincing grace in other words the holy spirit is using the conscience and knowledge of the moral law that has been restored by god and is convicting that sinner you need jesus christ you need jesus christ okay so we call that grace convincing grace convincing grace and convincing grace is another way of saying cooper and grace because we are cooperating with god there's divine human cooperation the holy spirit is convicting us we are receiving that conviction and being in the means of grace okay so prevenient grace usually leads in the best sense to convincing grace what's another name for convincing grace i think we can use this here repentance in other words one is repenting one says okay i agree i have done wrong i have fallen short of the glory of god i have guilt in my life my conscience bothers me i want another way i want to go a different direction metanoia genuine turning about and change that's what we mean by repentance metanoia going a different direction and convincing grace leads to that convincing grace leads to that and so prevent grace usually leads to convincing grace or repentance and how does it often lead that to that through the power of preaching or teaching and the holy spirit using that word to convict the sinner and to show them their need of jesus christ okay and so when wesley gave counsel to his preachers okay how should you preach in the church when you first come to a new environment and you know nothing about the people he said to him he wrote this at our first beginning to preach at any place after a general declaration of the love of god to sinners preach the law the law what does he mean by the law here the moral law in the strongest the closest the most searching manner possible in other words preach the moral law and the holy spirit can use that moral law in order to convict the sinner in order to convince the sinner and show them their need of jesus christ and so if you take a look at wesley's sermon he wrote actually four key sermons on the moral law and they're all those sermons are in the new book that has been translated into estonian in other words wesley's 52 standard sermons all those four sermons are there it's the original nature of property uses of the law that's sermon one the law established by faith discourse one the law established by faith discourse two and then sermon on the mount uh discourse five um those are four sermons all on the moral law and in that first sermon that is the original nature and property and uses of the law when we take a look at this first sermon wesley argues that the moral law and you know what i mean by moral law now because we we've gone over that has three uses it has three uses the moral law has three uses what's the first use of of the moral law to convince the world of sin to convince the world of sin in other words to show the world of their need of christ that they have fallen short of the glory of god okay so that's a use of the moral law so it's law and spirit or word and spirit that's the combination here word and spirit the holy spirit uses the word uses the moral law to bring conviction conviction of sin then secondly secondly the moral law is useful to bring that person to christ and so the moral law points points to christ and indeed helps to bring the person bring the person to christ and then thirdly when wesley is talking about the uses of the law thirdly when wesley is talking about the use of the law he's talking about that the law keeps us alive it keeps us alive and by this understanding of the moral law wesley means that we look into the moral law for wisdom we look into the moral law for illumination for guidance how shall we live what shall we do how shall i relate to my neighbor we look into the moral law for wisdom as the express will of god so that we might walk and continue in the way that god has ordained and so wesley says the third use of the moral law is to keep us alive and that's what we call technically the prescriptive use of the law it's called tertia's uses calvin has it wesley has it but luther doesn't have this understanding of the law though the subsequent lutheran tradition does especially in the formula of concord okay so what's going to happen here the law is going to have its effect through the holy spirit in conscience it's going to have its effect in conscience people are going to become convinced that they deserve nothing but the wrath of god and this is going to lead to poverty of spirit a kind of teachableness that wesley himself had when he came back from georgia he was open he was teachable uh this is what will happen through the work of the spirit it leads to humility to openness to teachableness uh it leads to the conviction of sin and it leads to repentance it leads to repentance okay so now we can raise the issue and it's important issue so let's say let's say wesley's counseling that person that person came to john wesley you know the story he says i'm not a christian but i want to become a christian wesley gave him counsel he said you know leave off good i mean leave off evil do good and be in the means of grace the person is doing those things okay and now as they're in these things which correspond to the general rules of the united societies these three councils all of a sudden now they are convicted by the holy spirit the holy spirit is convicting them in their heart and in their conscience that they have fallen short they have fallen short and so now they are repenting they are turning they are turning towards god in a new way by god's grace what should they do should they should they do nothing should they fold their hands and say well i don't want to despoil faith i heard that we're justified by grace through faith alone so i'm gonna do nothing i'm not gonna go to church i'm not gonna read the bible i'm not gonna serve the poor i'm not gonna pray i'm not gonna engage in christian assembly i'm not going to fast because those are works those are those are works and i don't want to corrupt justification by grace through faith alone so i'm going to do nothing okay uh do you think wesley would agree with that with that answer no no and and notice that wesley can disagree with that answer without arguing salvation by works how so because why god has already acted you have already received proven grace convincing grace you can do something you can be in the means of grace you can do you can engage in repentance and watch this works suitable for repentance so wesley would counsel that person are you not redeemed yet okay and you're in the process of repenting good then do works suitable in accordance with repentance those works will not be the basis upon which you are justified but they may very well be the means through which god can communicate justifying grace do you understand the difference do you understand the difference okay and so when the methodist conference the first methodist conference in 1744 addressed this issue uh in answer to the question listen to the question that the first methodist conference dealt with in 1744 must not repentance and works meet for repentance that's wesley's language suitable for repentance must they not go before faith and here's what the conference stated quote without doubt if by repentance you mean conviction of sin and by works meet for repentance obeying god as far as we can forgiving our brother leaving off from evil and doing good and using his ordinances okay so that's wesley that's the the counsel of the first methodist conference in other words are you receiving convincing grace prevenient grace are you in the process of repentance then you can do something you can do works suitable for repentance okay and those works suitable for repentance that you're doing leaving off evil doing good being the means of grace again they will not be the basis upon which you're justified because we're justified by grace through faith alone but they will be the means through which god can communicate further grace to us okay now um this i said to you earlier wesley lived a paradigmatic life okay he lived a life that functions as a good example of what to do and what not to do because wesley made a number of mistakes in his life but in this area it was not wesley making the mistake it was actually this time the moravians the moravians at fetter lane remember i talked to you earlier about the joint moravian methodist society at fetter lane that was established in 1738 by wesley and peter berla okay there's now trouble there's now trouble uh at fetter lane because some of the moravians are teaching they're teaching that if you are not justified if you do not know you're a child of god if you're not justified or born of god do nothing do nothing in other words don't go to church don't fast don't use private prayer don't read the bible and do not do temporal and spiritual good so people like malthur and bray were teaching this at federal lane they said you know do you know your sins are forgiven and if you answered no then they said basically fold your hands fold your hands and wait for saving grace and and they claimed that this was the teaching of martin luther and that this is what justification by grace through faith alone means but of course this is not luther this is a distortion of luther what do we call this there's a name for it we call it quietism quietism leaving off all the means of grace um thinking that if we were involved in any way in the means of grace that that would corrupt or despoil justification okay and so wesley dealt with this he dealt with this at the federal lane society so there was a historical context out of which this teaching this mature teaching of wesley emerged uh and so malthur's position at feder lane resulted in what extreme passivity in other words do nothing fold the hands uh it resulted in st another another name for this is not just quietism but stillness in other words be still do nothing because we don't want to we don't want to corrupt justification by grace through faith alone and we're just going to have to wait for it doing nothing because we can't do any works at all but in wesley's theology you can do something why because god has already acted god has given prevenient grace god works therefore you can work god works therefore you must work okay and so wesley is underscoring the importance of proper means here uh and this is what how wesley summarizes this teaching in his sermon the scripture way of salvation which was written in 1765. this is what he writes quote god does undoubtedly command us both to repent and to bring forth fruits meet for repentance which if we willingly neglect we cannot reasonably expect to be justified at all therefore both repentance and fruits suitable for repentance the word wesley uses here is meat but that's 18th century language uh works fruits suitable for repentance are here's wesley's language in some sense in some sense necessary to justification but they are not necessary they are not necessary in the same sense with faith nor in the same degree with faith okay so let me unpack that for you uh a bit here what wesley is saying here um again think of that person who's come come to wesley for counsel okay uh think of the auto salutus the order of salvation they are along the way they are on the path of salvation okay they are under conviction of sin what should they do well wesley is arguing here do you have time and opportunity is there time and opportunity then you can do something by means of the grace of god so when wesley is saying to to repent and do fruits suitable for repentance and he's saying that they are in some sense necessary in some sense necessary to justification he is meaning that if there be time and opportunity so if there's time and opportunity in other words we haven't entered in yet what can we do well go to church talk to people see other people's faith pray read the bible fast do all of those things they will be the means to which god can communicate saving saving grace okay now the question uh becomes of course uh this issue uh in terms of these works suitable for repentance so let me cite for you something that the methodist conference in 1770 argued what they stated so this is much later this is not the first conference in 1744 but this is a later conference and listen to this it shows the continuity of wesley's teaching we have received it as a maxim that a man is to do nothing in order to justification nothing can be more false whoever desires to find favor with god should cease from evil learn to do good whoever repents should do works meet for repentance okay and so what wesley is saying there it's it's actually a very balanced statement what he's saying there is if there be time and opportunity and for most people there will be there will be time and opportunity so he's saying then works suitable for repentance are in some sense necessary to justification they will not justify us because we're justified by jesus christ we're justified by grace through faith in jesus christ but they are the path the in the intro that points to justification and regeneration okay which if we willingly neglect wesley rights we can hardly expect to be justified at all okay so that uh is an important issue uh to be sure um let me say i know we go we have time generous time [Music]