Transcript for:
Insights from Mark Zuckerberg Interview

I have some tour dates to tell you about. Miami, Florida on May 10th. Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th. St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20th. Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st. Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd. Winnipeg and Calgary in the Canada. All tickets at theon.com. Please go through those links so you get accurate pricing. and I appreciate your support for the return of the rat tour. Today's guest is an entrepreneur. He's an inventor. He's a philanthropist. Um he is one of the richest men in the world and it's you know and a consensus of wealth and power exists and only so few people. He co-founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old. the company that turned into Meta, which is where we are today in their headquarters. Uh, I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg and I will find a song. You drink coffee, man, or no? No. Really? Yeah. I mean, you've you've had it? I have. Um, sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while. Just like a Yeah. Just like like a celebration. Yeah. Really? Yeah. No, I I just like hate anything that messes with like I don't I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that. Oh, really? So, you like to keep everything the equilibrium? Yeah. My sister gives me such a hard time about that. She's like, "You're just sitting there raw dogging reality." Wow. It's kind of true. Like, so you But have you you've had it before? Yeah. But you just don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like it. So, when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do? No. No. No. Yeah. I mean, I wake up and I uh I fight people. Yeah. Um Yeah. No, I mean I I wake up in the morning and are we going, by the way? I mean, we should we should get this. Yeah, we're going. What's up? All right. Oh, you mean you wake up and do jiu-jitsu, you mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I probably wake up like I don't know 7 7:30 whenever like the kids start making noise around the house. It's like all right and sleep is done. Yeah. And and then like it's like I look at my phone and I'm just like all these things that these people are doing like you did what? Are you [ __ ] kidding me? It's like I have to go [ __ ] deal with this. It's like like it's like this partner are really god damn it. All right. So, and then it's like I compose myself and go fight for two hours, like reenter myself. Then it's like now I can go deal with the stuff. But no, it's um so that helps. It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes like rolling like rolling jiu-jitsu kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean right now I'm doing more striking so I really fun. I I just I think it's like the greatest sport. I mean it's um it's like neurologically stimulating. It's uh you know it's good cardio, good strength. Oh yeah. um a little bit of a threat, right? So it keeps you on, you know, it's not not like just like running. I used to like run around the neighborhood, but running is not that thrilling. Running compared to jiu-jitsu is for running is a running is not really neat once you can do jiu-jitsu because I think one cool thing about jiu-jitsu is just like you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose like um like they can submit you but you'll learn something along the way, right? And they a lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn too. So it's like you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it. Yeah. Totally. Do you do you do it? I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Striking like that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I never got into striking, but I would just kind of like um but I would just do jiu-jitsu on the mats, you know. Oh, yeah. No, it's so fun. It's just like fun to do with friends and Oh, yeah. and some guy chokes you so hard and then you're just like god you're like h it's a good day. It's Yeah, it's just Yeah, it's a cup of coffee. Yeah. If a big fella just squeezing you until you can't handle it, it's a cup of coffee. Better than caffeine for me. Yeah. I don't know. I I'm just not into that stuff. Is there a like a is there like um a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet if it's not caffeine? Is there some like I drink a very large amount of protein? I mean creatine. Do you do you count that? I mean I don't know. Yeah. Um I don't know. Vitamin D, like all that stuff. Yeah, vitamin's good, but um but like Yeah, it's not your thing. No. No. Never been my thing. I um Yeah. Where did I see? Oh, we saw each other at the UFC. And you and your wife were there, right? Uh yeah. Which one was that? I'm trying to think. It wasn't 312. Was that That was Alex fighting Magd. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was sad about that, man. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, your wife I could see she could like really it it like she was like head in her hand sometimes. Yeah. No, I think um she uh I think she would say she enjoys it, but I think she mostly goes to uh to support me. Um Yeah. No, she's into it. I think um you know, it's tough. I mean, we've gotten to know a bunch of the fighters, and it's just like when you see someone who you know and like get hit or go down, that's like that's tough, right? Right. I mean, it's like I I've gotten to uh like train with Vog a few times and um you know, we were there at 298 when he fought Ilia and like Oh, yeah. That was like and that was like really tough. Did you get to walk out with him or No. Yeah. I mean, he asked me to to to walk out with him and I was like, "All right, yeah, this will be a cool experience." And then I'm just like, you know, standing there while they're walking. Did you see that whole meme where where they're uh like he's like passing off all his clothes and I'm just like sitting there like uh useless? Yeah. No, there you go. That was that was a fun that was a fun one. Was that scary? Like what? Cuz I guess you feel like Yeah. What do I do now? No, I mean this was a fun moment. But but I mean but watching him um get hit by Ilia. So I mean it was like right cage shot. It was like three feet from us and I mean he's like a big like he's like a tough guy, right? And u so that that was that was tough. Um but so I think after that Priscilla was like oh man I don't know if I can go watch Vulcan in person again. But but we I mean you know I mean we just have friends over. It was fun watching him fight Diego. It was good. It was a great fight. It was great. It was awesome. Tough tough moments in in round two and four. But he's his heart man like I mean the way he described it after like did you see the the shot in round four where Diego grazed his eyelid with his glove. Yeah. And he lost his vision and and he like and you could see it was kind of like like just the the head movement and everything trying to survive. It's like watching an animal try to survive on one of those Animal Planet shows or something when you're cheering for the, you know, you're like, "Oh, it's not going to go well." But then he does good. Yeah. No. Um he he's an amazing guy. Um he's he's he's really cool. Very talented. A lot of heart. Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters. I think that's one thing that um is great about social media these days that you get to know the fighters a little bit more, some of their regular live. Like you can get involved in who they are. So that gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Um, is it tough to take your wife since you're a um and I'm just just going to go for it. Since you're a I'm going to say the word really fast just so it's like uh so we don't dwell on it, but since you're a billionaire, is it tough to take your wife on a date like at that you know like do you have to live up to a standard or what's like a like a nice date night? What is that like? Um I don't know. No, I think she's pretty chill. Um she's a chillionaire. Yeah, sorry. My niece will like it. Yeah, there you go. Um, no, I mean I I think the the main thing for me is like like life is busy. There's like a million things that I could be doing at any given point in time. I I just think it's important to like take time, you know, each week. Like, you know, Wednesday night, we really try to have a date night. Um, you know, try to hang out with the kids and put them to bed every night. It's like that. That's just like an important part of my routine. I think I think that's important stuff to do. But but no, I mean uh we we try to like go out somewhere, but every once in a while we'll just cook or or eat at home and and that's all good. The UFC stuff I think is probably more for me than for her. But but she's she's she's a good sport about it. Is there something you'll do for her like or is there like a fancy date cuz you you can afford to take your wife on like a date of like that that a lot of us could only dream of, right? That most that most people could only dream of. Is there something that like a is there some magical date that you took her on one time? Um, I don't know. That is a good question. Let's see. She's she's pretty simple on this stuff. I think most of the, you know, I I like doing I like making things, right? So, I don't know if you saw this thing. I like I I like working with like great artists and stuff. So, I I did this project where I've always admired Daniel Arsham and and um he's he's this like great sculptor and we and I I worked with him to make this sculpture of Priscilla because I thought it was cool and um yeah, you're pulling this up and the and like Oh, yeah. First of all, I think it's like, you know, make a sculpture of Priscilla partially because that's cool, partially because I'm like I'm not going to make a sculpture of myself. It's like that that's crazy, right? It's like who the [ __ ] does that but like um so so it's like she's kind of the target of my creative energy in a way. So there's all these memes online after Yeah, there you go. where people like wow I wonder what Zuckerberg did wrong that he had to make a sculpture of his wife and I'm like no you guys are totally missing this. This is the thing I did wrong. It's like you can't like you're going to have to wait to see what I have to do to make up for having made a sculpture and putting it on our front lawn. And it's like she doesn't want a sculpture of her in the front lawn. It's like that's that's weird, right? It's like, you know, it's but um No, but she she's a good sport about it. And um that and at least you can tell the Door Dash guy like just set it by the sculpture. Just by the sculpture. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of nice. It becomes like a um and an I think having like a woman as a lookout in your yard is kind of nice, you know? Yeah. No, it's got like a good angelic form factor thing. It's a It's a good vibe. Did she make you make any adjustments to it or was she like, "Okay, I'll accept it as is." Um, no. I mean, I don't think she was that happy with it. Um, because again, I mean, like, who wants a sculpture of themselves in in the in the in the front yard? But, um, but, you know, I think she thinks it's sweet and I think she appreciates that. Um, I mean, there's a lot of like more destructive things I could be doing with my creative energy. Yeah. You made an effort, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, and so it's like I I designed her this, um, this, uh, Porsche minivan thing. It's like we took like a Cayenne and extended it to be bigger. And it's like I do that cuz it's like, all right, I like cars, but I'm not going to design a super car for myself. Let's like just design a sweet minivan for my wife, right? It's like, yeah, it was just fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess creative stuff like that, trying to be creative and show her some creativity. Oh, that's nice. There you go. I mean, look at that. And where did you meet your wife at? Um, I met her in school. So, at at we were in college and I had just done this prank. Um, and all my friends and everyone was convinced they were all convinced I was going to get thrown out of school. Okay. And where were you at in school at, Mark? Harvard. Okay. And so, so I was a sophomore, she was a freshman. Um, my friends were convinced I was about to get kicked out of school. I was like going in front of this like trial for the kind of like school discipline committee. Um my friends threw a going away party for me and it was in the bathroom line at the end of the party. Um where I was just like next to Priscilla and we were talking and you had nothing to lose. It was your last meal. I was just like look man like it's you know have I didn't say man but it's um like it was not not very romantic situations. It's like we're waiting in line for the bathroom. She's just funny. She She's cute. And it's like I was like, "All right, hey, you know, if we're going to go out, we better go do this quickly cuz I'm probably going to get kicked out of school in like two or three days." It's like that's a good pickup line, right? It's like, yeah, that's that's how you really show that you have potential in the world, right? It's, you know, it's Well, it's a limited time offer. Yeah. But it's not like very aspirational. It's like, hey, that's true. It's like I'm um going nowhere in life and um I'm I'm about to get kicked out of school so you're going to want to you know you're going to want to go out with me really quickly. Um Right. It's like Yeah. Yeah. I guess another way to look at it is very sail rack in a way you know. Very sail rack. Yeah. So but but I mean but everyone I knew thought that this whole thing was over. I mean my parents drove up. We lived in New York. They drove up to help me pack up my dorm room cuz they're like it's over. You're coming home. Yeah. Um but um it didn't. Then of course I I made Facebook and a few months later I dropped out anyway. So jokes on them. But um but but that's that's how uh Yeah. No, that's Did you have to go to the trial at school or you didn't? Oh no, I did. And and it was like the questions that they asked were even worse than the questions that I get at like the congressional hearings. It was like, "Don't you know that once you put this terrible prank website online, it is there forever?" And it's like, "No, actually that's not how it works. The site's already down." Um, they're like, "You're a smartass." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's probably true. That's probably true." But but half of a smart ass also is smart. Yeah. I'll take that. It's better than being a dumbass. Yeah. Well, you know, it's like maybe smart and a little bit of an ass. And, you know, it works. Yeah. Yeah, I'd rather be a smartass, I think. Um, do you know about um what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook, though. No, no, it was this thing called Face Mash. Um, which you know, in the whole lore of the thing, there's this whole movie that got made about all this stuff. They made it seem like Face Mash was a predecessor to Facebook. It wasn't. I when I was in college, I I just like making things. Yeah. So, whether it's statues or minivans or internets or glasses, like whatever, you know, I just like making stuff. So, you like being creative. Yeah. So I So like I um uh so it was it was it was it was very mean-spirited. It was very meanspirited. I basically I downloaded everyone's ID photos um from their ID cards and I made this site where it showed two photos and you clicked on the person you thought was more attractive and then it used and it basically look took all the matchups and ranked everyone in the school based on um oh who everyone thought was the most attractive. Very mean-spirited in retrospect. Um not connected to Facebook in any way, right? but just like just just like just a college kid kind of being a jerk. Um but you know it's like okay. So that was not not my not my best move. Um but you got to take B you know it's baby steps. I mean and also pretty cool to make something. Some of the things I did were were were useful and fun. That one I put it together in a weekend. Not my best work as um Yeah. No, not my best work. But that's fair. Not your best work, you know. Yeah. We've all had things we made that weren't, you know, that weren't the best probably. Did you um let me think what I'm going to ask you. Oh, did you um What kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive? Uh right now, Blackwing CT5. Um I It's a Cadillac. It's nice. It's um It's uh Here, pull it up. It's uh I I really like driving manual transmission cars. Oh, yeah. Huh. And um I like that type of thing, baby. It's uh it's a good one. Oh god, that's nice. Yeah, that thing will just shift. That thing just gets shifty out there. No, it's good. It's good. It's got a nice little on it. I feel like you want your car to have almost as much horsepower as your helicopter. I feel like as a rule of thumb, it's probably a rule of a very rich thumb. Definitely. Yeah. So for a while, okay, so my security team kind of convinced me for like 10 years that I should just let them drive me places, which I mean, realistically I probably should, but um but then eventually I was just like, I can't I can't I can't do this. It's like I like I need like the freedom. I need to be able to drive myself. So I started learning how to fly helicopters. And then I was like, all right, well, this is just ridiculous. So, it's like we have the security team driving me to my helicopter that I then go fly away. It's like that makes no sense. It's like I'll just let's just go let's get a car. It's kind of Batman almost has a Batman vibe, but I guess it is true because then you're just by yourself out there. What do you mean? Or will you take somebody with you in the car? Oh, no. No. In the car or the helicopter? Helicopter. Yeah, I definitely have like a real professional pilot fly with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's wild though. Yeah. But I guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick, right? Uh, yeah. I mean, it's it's a good it's a good tool to have in the arsenal. Unreal. No, it's um like a damn emperor, dude. Does that feel like that ever? No. Um, man, it's like I feel like I wish that people did what I wanted them to do. It's like that would be that would be fun. But, but in the meantime, you could have some fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would have a chopper. I'd have a I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel even though it came right back up next to where it started. I do. I do have an underground tunnel. Do you really? Yeah. Yeah. in this ranch in Kawaii. Yeah. Where there's this whole thing where people are like there's this whole meme about how people are saying I built this like bunker underground. It's it's like more of underground storage situation. But um but yeah, no, it's uh it's a Oh, wow. Zucky got that bunky. What's under the ground? Just more water, right? It's basically what you just said. It's sort of a tunnel that just goes to another building. Yeah. But it's a good place to hide a little bit of dope though. I that's what I would say, dude. Those are the good that's what I would do anyway. But um you and I defer there. Yeah. So you don't use you've never used drugs or I mean I I don't know. Dare really worked on me when I was in third grade. It's like I don't know. There's all this stuff about how it like how it it backfired and like it just kind of taught people how to use drugs. For me it like really scared me. It was like I don't no I don't like any of that stuff. It's like a friend will show up and be like, "I was like getting um an IV to feel better." It's like I don't even want people to like extend their arm and show me their vein. Like it's like that [ __ ] Like no man. Yeah, that's true, dude. No, I'm I'm raw dogging reality as my god. Yeah. No, it's there's kind of a that's kind of insane really these days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was like really straight edge and sober that they was that that was a nerdy thing I think. But now I never even thought about it before. Now, that's almost the most insane thing you can do. It's like, wait, you're under the influence of nothing. Nothing. Nothing. From sun up to sun down. You're a [ __ ] animal, you know? It's kind of crazy that it's that that things have gone that that uh that that the perspect perspective of that has kind of changed. How big is that tunnel? Is your tunnel pretty big or what's it like? Uh, it's not that big of a tunnel. It's I I made a I put a real on Instagram one day of um of of Priscilla kind of making fun of me playing video games with some friends down there. But it's uh uh yeah, no it's it's it's all good. Um yeah, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time. You know how the internet is. The internet will will always make things seem like they're crazier than they are. But you know, once an under I mean in Hawaii it's like having a having a little storm shelter underground tunnel is pretty stupid. That's the thing right there. No, I don't think so. I someone's wondering. Is that Roblox? Who built it for you? It's closer to Roblox than uh than than what than what the thing is. Dude, the future's def Things are definitely getting weird with cars. Is Dude, I saw four Whimos meeting up behind the IKEA over here. Having a meeting, huh? Yeah. Deciding what they're going to do next. Just like what's your next move? Kind of was like where you going? Who you? Yeah. I think Have you seen Hot Tub Time Machine? Um I haven't seen it. You You would like that. That's good. Yeah. No, I think that there's uh there's the self-driving car that's like hunting down the guy who was mean to it in it. It's it's uh it's good. Yeah, that's what it see Yeah, that's what it seemed like. Dude, there was four I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four Whimos all meeting. Yeah, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, what who are they? What are they doing? You know, and then my buddy said he was in one and it was um crying to him because it like the Whimo was crying. Yeah, the Whimo was like complaining about his spouse or whatever and it was like what form does that take? I don't know. Is it like speaking English or is it like R2-D2? No, I think he had set it on a British setting. So, it was like, "Oh, me Mrs. is really getting at me." No. So, I think cuz you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever or like um or uh female or semi-female or whatever. Female. But like Yeah, I just think it like Yeah, just some of that Whimo stuff's just getting out of line. I never thought like, oh, what are these cars doing? Until I saw four of them meeting up and I was like, this seems like a lot to me. You know, that's where the future starts to get a little bit scary is moments like that. You're like, well, what are they doing? What were they doing? Probably just waiting to pick people up. But they have to do it to in a group behind an IKEA. Yeah, I don't know what that does seem like an unlikely place to pick people up. That's true. And well, it just see I'm not going to defend them. Okay. Okay. Okay. It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up, you know. Um, yeah. And then I I was in I was in one way mo and it was like you want to gamble and I think it was like sponsored by DraftKings or something and it was like you want to gamble with me Yeah. I was like it's like I bet you $40 you'll never get where you're going. And it was like this is this seems as the doors lock. Yeah. It's like picks up speed. Yeah. Yeah. And why are all the Whimos white too? I'm like, this is I don't know. I just think we got to start to diversify the portfolio. I feel like a little, you know. Yeah. But what do I know? Um you So, let me switch topics. Sorry. Sometimes I get a little bit nervous. Is that all right? Yeah. Okay. I mean, there's no way that you're uh less uh nervous than me. Let me think about how you said that. Yeah. Let me think about that, too. Did I More nervous? More nervous. Yeah. See, I I didn't even say it correctly. Really? Oh, but I think that's a trap. I think that I am I think I'm more nervous than you. You think? Yeah, man. I wake up. I am a an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like What does that mean? I just feel like I'm always, you know, you know, I don't know. I just think I've always felt like that. I've always felt like kind of frenetic, you know? It's like how do I get things to calm down more than how do I get things to amp up, you know? M um like I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now and it makes things a lot easier for me to kind of navigate. Interesting. Yeah. It just makes everything easier to focus on. It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out, any of those things. It makes it everything. You wear earbuds in the I'll wear earplugs. Okay. Oh, I see. Okay. And I wear them all night while it just makes everything a lot easier. Ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs? Check out Pick Six from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings Pick Six posterizes the competition. Hit all your picks and score higher minimum payouts on Pick Six, plus even more cash if you outscore the competition. Pick Six is available in most states, including Missouri, California, Texas, Georgia, and more. I like to pick Kevin Durant the Durantula and more than 22 points or sometimes I'll pick Bick and more than 11 rebounds. It's up to you. New players get 50 in Pick Six credits instantly on just a $5 entry. Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app now and use code Theo. That's code tho for new customers to play $5. Get $50 in Pick Six credits. 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Well, I mean, college, there's a question of how much of it is about the learning and how much of it is about the kind of like learning how to be a grown-up before you kind of go out into the world. Um, I mean, for me, it's like the the classes were fine. I mean, that was a fun sort of entertaining part of of college, but I mean I met a lot of people who were really important in my life, right? But it's like I mean Priscilla, my co-founders at um at the company um a bunch of people who are still friends, close friends to to this day. Um so I think that's almost more of it than um than like whatever class you took, right? Um but yeah. Yeah. That's just that socialist learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents house. Yeah. And I mean and I went to boarding school for two years. Um, and then before I went to to college for two years. So I feel like even though I dropped out of college, I kind of got a full experience in a way um on that. But it was good. I I feel like you just like, you know, you need some time kind of away from home a bit before you like fully go out. But um so I I don't know. I I think that that'll be a thing. Um but I I do think like a lot of people I'm not sure that college is preparing people for like the jobs that they need to have today. I mean, I think that that's like there's a big issue on that and like all the student debt issues are like really big issues. I mean, the fact that college is it's just so expensive for so many people and then like you graduate and you're in debt. Um well, you're not even guaranteed a job either. You would think at a certain rate you're paying you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment. Yeah. Know, I think that's that's probably the big the the biggest issue with it is it would be one thing if it were just kind of like a a social experience, but you started off neutral. the the fact if if it's not preparing you for the jobs that you need and you're kind of starting off in this big hole, then I I think that's that's not good. I mean, that that I think there's gonna have to be a reckoning with and people are going to have to to kind of figure out whether that makes sense. But I I don't know. people, it's sort of been this taboo thing to say of like like maybe not everyone needs to go to college and because there's like a lot of jobs that don't require that and um but I think people are probably coming around to that opinion a little more now than than um than maybe like 10 years ago. Yeah. Do you think I was just talking earlier um with Colin I think one of your assistants one of your co-workers sorry I don't say assistants but um and we're kind of saying that um yeah like what classes do you think like kids should be learning now because like with AI coming along and with technology starting to like really multiply itself pretty quickly like our ability to advance is is going to only grow faster it seems like would you feel That's true. Overall statement. Oh yeah, totally. I think it's accelerating. Yeah, accelerating. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for. Sorry. So, with that happening, what are like I feel like they should be teaching how to like kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that that sounds very real to me? Do you feel like that that's like not not how to code or anything, but just how to do it? So, I mean, it's interesting because the technology changes a lot, right? It's obviously it's a lot different now than it was 20 years ago when I got started with the company or when I started coding when I was a kid. So, it's not like the specific things I learned to code when I was 15 are the skills I'm using today. But you I don't know. I I think there is something about kind of understanding the technology and understanding how to use it and getting on that train that I think is is valuable. But the other thing is I I just think like having good mentors or teachers no matter what the actual classes. Like when I was in boarding school, um I really liked studying Latin and Greek and that's like not useful for any practical thing, but it's uh but it's it's fun and like it's fun. It's fun. It's fun. I think it's there are parts of it that are fun for sure. And the tests that we that I had to take were, you know, it's they would, you know, you'd be reading these kind of great works. Um, and the test would be they'd pull out any word in like whatever the, you know, third of a book was that was kind of that that kind of section of the class. and they they'd like show you a sentence and they they'd say, "Okay, this word like give us the full kind of grammatical and and like poetic significance of um of kind of how this word is used by this author in this piece." So, okay, I'm not like I'm not that good at language. Um, so the way that I did that class was I basically just sat and studied word by word the like historical significance of of each word over like tens of pages. Um, you know, preparing for these exams and okay, I don't remember that much of that at this point, right? I mean, there were a few quotes that I think are pretty good from some of those books, but um, and I put them on shirts, but um, have you pluron? Have you heard that one? Yeah, no, that's a good one. What does that one mean? let's blow or whatever from from many one. I think it's talking about how we come together as as a as a people or as states into one union. Oh, that's nice. Um but no, I um but so you did it word by word, but it still helped you. But I I just think like the lesson from that is uh you know, it kind of gave me this confidence that it's like okay that was like a crazy thing to do, right? to have to like go learn what every word's significance like poetic significance and grammatical the structure and all that is. Um, and after I took that class, I was basically like I can work hard enough to do anything that I want, right? cuz look, I just like [ __ ] learned all these words that don't matter um in order to like nail this thing and like and I won and and and kind of did that and and got that to to kind of and kind of you had some fun doing it. So, Right. It's like you like you found a a model kind of Yeah, exactly. that worked and it was hard. It was a it was a tough model. Yeah. So, I mean there's like there's that and there's like the math version of that. I mean, you're talking about Alexander Wang on here. It's like I mean I did a bunch of um the same kind of math competitions that that he did. I had this like super hardcore math instructor in high school. His name was Zuming Fun. And he um Chinese guy. Oh yeah. And um I think at some point he he had worked with um Zooming Fong. Bring him Zooming Fong. Now he is We want the Fong. You ever hear that song? They used to play that. Well, this guy's just like a badass and he he basically was involved in training the um the US math olympiad team for for a long period of time and and he um he made a huge impact on on me kind of growing up and um and and he kind of taught me a little bit about like how I approached problems. He's like, "Look, you actually um" He's like, he's like, "You kind of have this." He's like, "Look, you're not that good at math." I'm like, "No, no." But um I'm kidding. Um he he he kind of taught me that I I had this sort of like intuitive ability to have a sense of like what zone the right answer was in. So he's like, I look at your work and you do a bunch of stuff that like doesn't really make sense, but then at the end you come to a conclusion and you realize that that conclusion doesn't make sense and then you kind of check yourself and go back and do it. You keep on doing it until you get the right answer. He's like, I I don't understand how you like have this intuitive sense for like what the shape of the right answer is, but like that's really good. As long as you like couple that with working really hard, you're going to be able to kind of succeed and get a lot um and get a lot done. Um but so that give you a map of how to navigate yourself like your intuition with your hard work. Yeah. So so I don't know. So okay like does the specific like you know highdimensional geometry or whatever the thing is that we were working on together like do I do any of that today? No. I I don't remember any of that stuff. But like but I think it's like like you have some good teachers who teach you how to think and how to work hard and like that stays with you forever. And I think that that's like some of the stuff that um I mean I think it it builds confidence. It like teaches you how you approach problems. Then you just get better and better at at some things and you you build confidence. And so that's the value you're saying in seeing in college. Like those are some of the other values you might not see like oh yeah that might be not be able to be seen on paper but the but the value of that Yeah. That's a good point man. It's like, yeah, I remember like some of my favorite people still to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me or that believed in me or that said a certain like, man, I admire the way you do this or this, you know, and um and it really encourages you and wants kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more. Yeah. And and they don't have to be teachers, although obviously, you know, that's from mentors. I think a lot of a lot of these days a lot of people get their mentorship probably, I would guess, from teachers unless they play a sport, you know. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the main way that you learn though is from colleagues, right? It's like people you you work with. Um, you know, and I I remember, you know, growing up, I I was like I was really into computers and like when you get your first computer, you think? Um, so my family had a computer probably when I was like eight or nine and then I think I probably got one and would you be there on that thing all the time just riding the key? So my my dad's a dentist and and like he's like I just got a tooth yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. How's that? How's that? There you go. I just got a a half of a uh got to see Dr. Zuckerberg. Really? It's he'll take care of you. Um did your parents give you love or just sonic care? Uh that's just an old dentist joke. Um glad you got that taken care of. Yeah, I feel a lot better about it. But um what were we talking about? Oh, I was just talking about how my my dad was the type of dentist who like was really into technology, right? So whenever like a new laser thing came out to like drill your teeth better, like he was on that first, right? And and and that was kind of cool to to be around, right? It's and and kind of see like he he clearly he loved technology. Um and I think I sort of got introduced to a bunch of stuff through that. So like he had like in his dental office there were like a bunch of different um you know operate operatory rooms I guess and and they each had computers and I was like all right you know like oh yeah the future in there. Yeah. It's like you it's like but it was still you know he'd still like go between them to talk to the different people. I was like you need like a chat app so you can just like send messages to everyone across the the dental office. So I like wrote that for him and I was like all right that's cool. Um, so you were coding. So you were d you were putting coding in like dental war. You were you were already thinking of how to connect things like making stuff. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's sort of been the theme for me is the intersection between like computing technology on the one hand and like people and connecting people. Um, you know, when I was in college I I wasn't there for long but I mean I was technically a psychology major. I mean, I took a bunch of computer science and math classes, too. But, dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for 4 days, dude, I would hire him to be my therapist or whatever. Yeah, I wouldn't really. I mean, I don't know. I think I' I'd rather have someone who I I definitely subscribe to the theory of like you want people who did well at whatever they did, not just like who have some random credential. So, Oh, yeah. Um, so yeah, I guess but where I'm from, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to like Mars or something. It was very, you know, Yeah. No, I get it. So, but I think so it kind of differs from place to place whenever you drop whenever you did you have to tell your parents you were dropping out of college. Was that a crazy day? Did you DM them or what you do? Uh, so I mean I'd already started Facebook and Harvard had this nice policy where you you didn't have to make a hard decision to drop out. You could just postpone. So I just didn't go back for the next term. Later, my mom told me that she always knew I wasn't going to finish college. I was like, "Mom, what the hell does that mean?" But um, no, but actually, but that's got to be the worst. Imagine this. Okay, say your son or child or daughter or mixed RA or mixed child or whatever. Imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know your kid is not going to do good on that test, right? But you still have to stand in there in the kitchen and give him a little bit of chocolate milk and be like, "You're gonna do good out there today. Benny or whatever his name is, right?" But then the second he leaves, you're just like, "That kid doesn't have a It's like, you know, Benny's screwed." Benny's screwed. Yeah. Um, no, I don't know. I don't know what it's like. No, but my younger sister. Is our conversation going okay? I feel like it's cool you. Yeah. No, this is Yeah. I mean, it's it's less random than I expected to be, you know? It's It is. I'm just kidding. Yeah. I think it's just hard to talk sometimes to people. No, before I went to college, my No, my mom, I think, told me that she thought I was going to drop out. My younger sister bet me that she was going to finish college before me. Oo, I like that attitude. And And I was like, "No, I'm going to get a degree." And they all came true. I dropped out. My younger sister finished college, and then I got an honorary degree, so you know, bonus. Oh, you got a They gave you that. I know. Yeah. Oh, dang. Did you even get your GED at all either? Uh, no. I did finish I did finish high school. You did? GD is high school, right? Is that I don't know. I think they make a GD premiere now. I don't know. I don't know. Anyone? No. No. GG's high school equivalent. High school. All right. Thank you. Um I got a real I got a I got a high school diploma. You got a high school diploma? That's my That's my education, dude. That's 94% of our country. So, you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats. Um so, when you started when you first started, let me think if I want to think. Oh, where was your first date that you took uh Priscilla to? Do you remember? Yeah, for Priscilla that was uh we went to this place, Berdicks. It was um Berdick. Berdex. La Berdicks. This uh like chocolate place, hot chocolate. Um that was that was pretty good. Um and was it just like you went and sat down or you is it like a restaurant or just a place to get? Yeah, it's like a little coffee place. Little like hot chocolate type coffee place. It's um Yeah. No, it's nice. They they they make good chocolates. They make these little mice things. Oh yeah. Yeah. Chocolate mice. So now every year on our anniversary, we get some mice. Oh yeah. Good deal. Oh yeah. Nothing like a couple of tech emperors are enjoying a couple of mice. You feel me? I think that's very normal. That's very normal to me, dude. Um sorry that just made me laugh, dude. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freaking laugh. It's just crazy to think. Well, chocolate mice. Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah. And that Yeah. And we'll put that in the notes in the notes. Um Yeah. No, it's not I I feel like when you go like full Roman Empire, it's like give me give me the live mice. Give me the live mice. And then one mouse shows up and he has like a bad leg. You're like all of them fully alive. Dude, if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg, nobody even cares. That's the saddest thing about some mice. But actually, I used to sell hamsters. My first job was selling hamsters growing up. And um a lot of that market, they brought in these Russian hamsters, right? And it took away a lot of the American market. And the Russian ones, they're called like the Robaravskis. Bring up a couple of Robarovskies, man. They were uh they they they took away like the fluffy kind of American hemp and they I mean they're pretty cute. They are cute, but the ones that we were getting a lot of them were from Russia. Put from Russia. Put uh Robarovski hamsters from Russia. Uh were the small white ones with kind of the red eyes. Yeah, they they really I think they um they put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good. Yeah. No, that's like that's like a vampire. It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of the children. Uh you know, so one of my daughters is really into hedgehogs. So we we found um we're in like we took them to Japan and there's this hedgehog cafe that you can just go in and they can just like play with the hedgehog. I've never seen a hedgehog. Yeah. No, it's it's uh they're pretty cute. It's kind of looks like that but less red eyes. But um Yeah. No, Bay. Yeah, she's out there. Those are beautiful. No, those the the idea of cafes where you can hang out with animals. Mhm. Um, and Priscilla was telling me that she took the kids to this cat cafe and like it's like my daughter was like hanging out with the cats and it was like couldn't find a cat that she liked and then like finally found a cat that she was into and then like find just as she was sitting down like hang out with the cat. Someone came in and was like up this cat has been adopted and took oh just like that issue that's going on with that guy they deported to El Salvador right now. That sounds like very I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's like a lot that seems completely different. Absolutely. A completely different thing. You're right. That's um Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairy tale. I don't know how the either one of those fairy tale ends, but that's so sad. The cat at least got a home. Yeah, the cat got a home. And this I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it. It just like spawned me on that. That could be something like that. Um do you you have how many do you have a three daughters? Three daughters. And you had three sisters. I did. Yeah. So you're kind of surrounded by girls. God. Yeah. And did you what's it like like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like what is that like at at the Zuckerberg's home? Um yeah. I mean it's just it's like so because I'm so busy during the day. I try to make it so that like the time that I know I'm going to hang out with the kids at night. I try to spend like half an hour with each of them at night. And and they're different ages. So we got like a nine, a seven-year-old, a 2-year-old. Oh wow. That's fun. Um yeah. So bedtime I don't No, I mean the kids are all crazy in different ways and and we just kind of like try to connect with them on on whatever they want. Um like what do they like to if it's not No, the 2-year-old is just like starting to learn how to speak and she probably code which would have been crazy. Yeah. No. Well, well, she's like Yeah. Now the 2-year-old has very strong opinions and I think it's going to be very interesting. Really? Um Yeah. Um Yeah. But it's like, let let me let me think about what I mean, she's um I don't know. I need to let me think about something funny that she's doing. But while um while I'm thinking about that, the uh the seven-year-old is just like purely generative, constantly just creating things. Um you know, she's the one who's like, "We'll do like 3D printing. She'll create like 3D worlds in this like Horizon metaverse system that we're building. Um, she codes, she writes books, she um, she basically like makes music. Um, she is she's seven years old. She's seven. Yeah. Seeing her has really like I think helped me understand myself in a way because it's like it's kind of like okay like why do I just keep like building stuff? Like why do I care so much about creating stuff? And it's like I don't know. I think some people just like have a thing in them where it's like they have to create stuff like the stuff just like comes out of them. They're constantly generating things and like and and kind of producing stuff and and you notice that in her. She's like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think Yeah. I mean I think before before kind of she started growing up and doing that Priscilla was just like why don't you just like relax, right? It's like you've done you've built enough things, right? It's like your company is good. Like you can just chill. And and now now I think after seeing um this one, she's just like, "Okay, no, I get it. Yeah, you you have the same thing. You have what she has, right? It's like you're just constantly creating stuff." She's like, "Dude, yeah, you're Thomas medicine." There you go. There you go. Pretty good. I like that. Yeah. No, it's uh Yeah. Thank you, dude. Um every now and then, you know, our oldest daughter is just like is The oldest one is nine, you said? Yeah, she's nine. And Okay, so that's getting up there a little bit in eight. So, she's getting into like the zone where she's like she competes. She's doing like history B and like competing in math and um and really wants to like understand the world. So, um so my my activities with her is like we'll usually like go through the news and I'll find she'll find like one thing, we'll pick out a story and then we'll just like talk about it. And it's it's really interesting because like it hadn't occurred to me before how much in order to understand like technology you need to really understand like government and civics and politics and law and like all of these different things. So trying to explain to like a child who hasn't thought much about these things um is it's both very fascinating for for me. Um, but it's just been like a cool bonding experience of like every and you you start off and it's like a really basic understanding, but then after you've done it for like a year or two that like, okay, she has like a very good understanding of like the tech industry and the world and all this stuff. And it's it's um it's pretty interesting to to talk through. Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear like what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? Like if your kid's 13 and you're still reading in Baron St. Bears or whatever, some of that's on you. like you got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know. Um because yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's head, but if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them uh get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them because so often we just expect like teachers and different curriculum out in the world or just the world to do that for our children. But man, I think the the biggest faucet for a child is the is the parent, you know. Um that's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little just two. We got we got a we got a bonus. Yeah. So it's um No, she's she's good. But I mean obviously very she's just obsessed with her older sisters. Like so one day she just decided like I am not a baby. And we're like oh you're the family baby. I'm I'm a big girl. It's like that's like a core part of her identity is she's a big girl. She's like, "Email me now." Yeah. No, it's like um yeah, email me now. Email me at sucker baby at Meta. Meanwhile, she can't even like fully pronounce it. She goes, "I'm a bit girl." It's like, "Okay." It's like, "Well, maybe learn how to pronounce it first and then I'll believe you." But um but uh No, she's she's like, "I weigh six terabytes, you know, like calm down, you know." Yeah. No, she's um so funny being like a like a and the stuff that we do it's like I mean it's too you're trying to like teach them like basic stuff. So it's like we have this book it's like how do I feel right? It's just like pictures of other kids and like their facial expressions and it's like the only emotion that she identifies with is happy. And so she'll be having like a terrible meltdown and like sobbing and I'm like Oreo how how do you feel? just goes happy and it's like no you don't have to you don't have to say happy all the time. It's like it's normal like in life it's like we have all these different emotions like you like it's it's important to understand when you're sad or or like angry or frustrated or something but but that's hilarious. So we're still working on that. We're working on we're we're still in the remedial emotional um emotions phase. She'll be like crying like how do you but she knows that's the world. She's like she knows. Yeah. No, it's like Oreo is her name. Aurelia, but we call her Oreo, which I'm sure we're going to regret when um when uh when she's older. Well, it's cute. I think Oreo probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? It could go, you know, Oreo Zuckerberg. Dude, that's when you take um that's when you like that's when you get into the food industry. Oreo Zuckerberg. I don't know. She's she she I think could be Sugar Empress. Well, Menllo Park. Kids love like you know kids love like they go through a phase where they love cleaning and they love like playing cooking, right? It's like oh just give me some like like a pan or like I don't know if that's something I think I think a lot of kids are like that. Yeah. She's just like, "Give me a desk. Like I want like I want to work like dad does. Like give me a desk and like like I don't want to do this like cooking [ __ ] Like it's like she's like we want to own a Popeye's and she's like but at least she has But I like that though when she has like a you know. No, she's she's a bit girl. Yeah. I like that. I love that idea that some child somewhere. This is going to make my day so much better. Just knowing that a child is just there's a child behind a desk just like demanding. It's like like Yeah. Yeah. There's not enough bandwidth in this crib. Not enough bandwidth to the crib. Yeah. To pull off what I need to pull off. Um I know the kids, you know, I don't Is it fun being a dad? Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of Is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters with or with Yeah, I I don't know. I think it's like there's probably some things that they connect better with with mother about, but like but I feel like there's also like I don't know there's all these weird dynamics. I know there's some things that they like probably just connect with me better about where it's, you know, it's it's just a different dynamic with with um father, right? So, and what do they call you? Do they call you dad, father, mother? Dad. Although sometimes they're they're being disobedient, Mark. And it's like, no, dad is a dad is a title. A title, an honorific title that I've earned. Um, Mark, they're like, what is going on? It's like, Oreo, that is [ __ ] Get back in your crib. Um, I'll see you in court. These diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer. That's hilarious. Um, that's crazy. I think like it's just good for them to to have good role models, right? You know, part of the way that I I feel like when kids grow up, they either end up wanting to like marry people who are the opposite of their parents if it was a bad experience or people who they like think of as sort of like, oh, this was a good role model, right? And so I feel like as long as they look up to us, that's like that's kind of the the that's that's you want to like set a good example, right? So, um but I don't know. I I kind of for me, we talked about this a little bit with um with the fighting stuff early on, but for me it's always just been important that it's like I don't just want to like be a person who like sits and works all the time. I think like you know it's we're not like meant to just sit at a desk all day long and one day Oreo will learn that. Um but um you know I think like a lot of life is like you move around you like you know it's like we're like meant to be active and and do stuff and I think that that's a big part of it. I try to like it's important to me that that the kids get that too and and the kids are very active. Um do your kids have a lot of um like screen time? Like how much screen time do you allow your kids? Yeah. Um it's different for the different ones. We don't just like let them do whatever, but I actually like want them to be fluent with this stuff and like kind of like we talked about earlier. Um you know, I want them to learn how to code, how to use technology. Um I think it's important because a lot of socialization, you know, obviously like happens online at this point. Like people need to get used to the norms and stuff around that. So, I mean, they're not on they're still too young to be using like social media, but uh but they have messenger kids, you know, we we um make it so that they can video chat and and chat with their friends and you know, we'll we'll obviously monitor to make sure that they're um that they're just connecting with the people who who we think that they should. But like I think it's actually good. I think people need to kind of grow up. um I don't need to is strong, but I I I think is um I think it's good if you have an engaged parent and and they um and and as a child you learn up you you you kind of grow up um learning how to use a bunch of this stuff. So I think that that's I think that's all good. I I want the kids um to the extent that they're interested in it to learn how to code, learn how to create stuff, whether it's in like Horizon or VR tools or they play, you know, Roblox and Minecraft and stuff like that. I think that's good. And then, you know, there's a lot of educational study type tools that um you know, when um when our daughter's studying for her competitions or whatever, she can she can kind of uh make a lot of progress on that. So, I I think that that stuff is good, but we're not just like letting them um just kind of sit and watch stuff all day long. So, you think unless you're on a plane, then you do whatever you need to do to get through that flight. Yeah. Thank you, dude. Somebody else needs to say that. Yeah. No, it's Where's the I want to When do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours? I'm not saying there has to be anything crazy. Nothing illegal, but we need we need a high voltage pacifier back in society, Mark. Oh, man. Um, give us something, brother. Yeah, these kids are screaming. They they sometimes do. I The craziest thing happened to me. One time I'm on a plane, I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams. Because I never have good sleep or anything. So, every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming. And I go back underwater. Um, but I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele. And at some point I wake up and there is a effing child or child as some people call them playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I was still groggy from being asleep and I was like, "We can't do this today." It's like the ukuleles. It's uh it's uh it's a lot. It's time out for ukulele. Yeah. We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here. I mean it probably took a lot of restraint to not just pick up the ukulele and smash it. It really did. Yeah. I mean it's Yeah, it really did. So I just said we're not doing this today in a tone that was that seems seems stern for a child but um especially for a child who you is not your child who who you don't know. I very type of thing that you could cause a scene. I got lucky. The parents were They agreed. They were probably pissed about the ukulele, too. They were afraid to tell their kids something. Yeah. It's like, so you did them a favor. Yeah. It's like, "Hey, Oreo, sometimes business is closed." Yeah. It's like working hours are over for today. Okay. Well, you'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like, sometimes you just have to, you know, but sometimes. So, I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids um from being on planes or screaming on planes because we are looking that's one thing we are all looking to you for. Well, maybe one day we'll deliver that. Nobody needs help spending their money. Sometimes it feels like the whole world is just trying to spend your money. We're going to spend your money. But people don't need help spending their money. People need help growing their money. That's why there's Acorns. 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I I think you had a chance to to play around with this a bit, but it's um Are those the ones you have on right now or no? Um, no, this is sort of I mean these are the ones that are available today. These are like REI glasses. So, I mean it's you know the they're glasses they can um you know the the main thing is they can um you can take photos or videos with them. Um I love just using them for listening to music um and taking phone calls on them because your ears are open, right? So it doesn't like it doesn't obscure your ability to hear anything else. Um the audio quality is really good, right? because it has a microphone like it's a contact mic um that's like basically in the nose pad. So when I'm Yeah. So when I'm like you can be on a plane and take a phone call and like the other person on the other side can't even hear that you're on a plane. Like it's just like the you can be in a wind tunnel and it's just like whatever. It's the the sound quality is is amazing. But then the main thing is um they're AI glasses. So you can glasses I think are like the perfect form factor for a device where if you want to have an AI that you let see what you see, hear what you hear, it can talk to you, you can talk to it throughout the day. Um, and glasses is that's like, you know, yeah, if you want to have something that has the same context of the world that you do, that's it's going to be glasses. And there's like there's like a billion or two billion people in the world who wear glasses already. M so to me the you know the chance that we look back like a decade from now and like all those glasses aren't AI glasses by that period. It's kind of like like obviously all the flip phones were going to become smartphones, right? I mean that like that was clearly a thing that was going to happen. I think that's going to happen with um with glasses too. But the um the other piece of this is that you're going to get the ability to kind of put holograms in the world, right? So our our experience with technology today is um I don't know it's kind of funny in a way how it's divided where it's like you you know we have the physical world all around us and then if you want to interact with something digital you need to like put a screen up right so maybe it's like this you know you have your your small glowing rectangle your phone with you you know you you have like you know your screen if you want to like project something yeah your computer but I I think in the not too distant future this should be blended together right you'll like the physical world, but all this digital stuff should just basically be holograms. You shouldn't need like a physical screen. Um like there's no reason why in the future, you know, you want to have a screen there. You'll just have glasses and that screen will be a hologram, right? And that's what you that's what you put me in. Yeah. Somebody put me in it. Yeah. Yeah. That's final season of Stranger Things back there. I got put in whatever they put on me. It was like Lens Crafters makes lens crafters look pretty, you know, lame. Well, it's um it's different. It's It was Well, it was crazy. I'll say it was like Can I say what happened on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was So, they put it You put the glasses on and they're they're It's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now, right? So, it's like years down the line. How many years down the line do you realistically think that those could um I'm hoping that we'll have a version of that as a product in a few years, but it's going four years or eight years. Hopefully closer to four um or even less, but um but it's I think that there will still be simpler glasses like this and then there will be more complex glasses. Those will be more expensive. There's more technology kind of. Yeah. But so some people will want like more tech. They'll want the holograms. Some people just want a simple experience where it's like, "All right, I got the AI. I got the ability to listen to music and phone calls and and do all that." Um, and then obviously the less tech that you put into them, the thinner they can be, which I mean some people like bulky glasses, some people want thin glasses. And um, yeah, it was fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. They had a a thing on my wrist, right? Uhhuh. Uh, neural interface. A neural interface. Yeah. I mean, you could basically control the glasses with your mind through signals that you're sending from your brain to your hand. Yes, it was fascinating. It was like I could like um touch different nodules if I needed to and stuff or different nodes, whatever it's called. I could look at certain things and that would highlight what it was and it was like a it was just a screen in midair and I could walk around the side of the room and then come back and the screen would still be there, but it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on. Yeah, it's a hologram. Yes. And it was it was crazy, man. I don't know. And then I was like, well, my first thought was like, well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Cuz people aren't just going to go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps. There's like almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then it advance or the first mobile phone and then you have the first metaglasses and then it advances and stuff like that. So, it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man who I just met him and we played ping pong and I believe it was an Asian guy and I don't know if they did that on purpose or not and I don't know if ping pong is Asian but it's people think it is and I started playing with this man back there, you know, and the table. Huh? Did you win, dude? Who knows? We're in the future. I don't know if they keep score. I think everybody gets a medal. No, you definitely keep score. Oh, you do? Yeah. Yeah. And then in our future, not everyone gets a medal. Yeah. I like that. Are you not? It's like Yeah. No, that's that's more Yeah. Oreo, fire up the grill. Yeah. Loser burns. But no, um the uh but that we could play a game of And it was a not real. It was a ping pong table in front of us that was not real. It was like 3D ping pong there. Yeah. So it wasn't that it wasn't there. Uhhuh. Someone could ride their bike through like your dumb brother could ride his freaking bike. Like dang it. Yeah, Ricky, bro, you freaking rode right through our net. So, I mean, I think it's an interesting thought experiment. How many of the things that we physically have aren't going to need to be there in the future, right? So, pretty much every screen doesn't need to be there, right? It'll just be a hologram. Um, any media, any book that you're playing, any board game, cards, those are that would be nice cuz one thing I hate is at the airport all these TVs are on our air. It's like everything is so loud now. It's like, can you just make it for you? Turn it down. Every Why do we all have to experience this? Yeah. Know, exactly. Painful noise sometimes. Yeah. It's like you're driving through a a city and there's billboards and nothing is personalized. It's like how TV used to be, right? I mean, in the in the future, you know, now like all the stuff that you use on your phone, it's like you get exactly what you're interested in and it's just a much more much higher quality experience, but that there's all this physical stuff that just stuck, right? and and is static and um yeah I mean everything I think is going to be able to um sorry not not everything but but it's I think it's an interesting thought experiment how much of the stuff that we physically have today that just doesn't actually need to exist in the future. Um so do you think um is social media bad? I mean I don't think so but yeah maybe that's not the right term. Um like at a certain point does Yeah. Like how much you know there's been like studies done where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression that sort of thing. Like do you Yeah. What do you think about that? Like Yeah. So so look I mean we obviously study this stuff pretty carefully. Um you guys do? Yeah. I mean we study it. We work with academics to study it. Um, you know, as you can imagine, there's a lot of like media coverage of this stuff that's like very um sensationalist that tries to like have a skewed point of view. My understanding of the current state of the research is that there isn't kind of a conclusive um finding that this is negative for people's well-being. So, I I think that that's and in general, you know, some of the stuff that ends up being positive for people is is building relationships. So there's sort of the media part of social media and there's the social part of social media. I think the the interacting with people um to the extent that that's helping you build good relationships. I mean friendships and good relationships is one of the things that correlates the most strongly with positive well-being and like feeling good about your life and all that. The media stuff, I mean, I think that's more entertaining. You know, I think you can, you know, people want things that are fun, right? Yeah. people want to be entertained for sure necessarily like correlate with good well-being or bad well-being but I guess like the way that I think about this stuff is that it's um our modern online environment is um it it's just an environment in which we live in a way that has pros and cons like whether you live in a city or a rural place right it's like okay like some people may prefer living in a city. There's like things that are good about a city. There are things that are bad about a city. Okay? Like the fact that we went from being primarily offline as a society to now like this kind of hybrid kind of physical and digital reality. There's some things that are better about that, some things that are that are maybe less good. Um it's not that every single thing improves at each step along the way, but I think overall um it's it's um kind of the overall effect is significant improvement. And I I just don't see a way that people would want to like go back to not having services where they can get the content that they're interested in and where stuff is personalized to them and where they can communicate with the people who they want and don't need to like be constrained to just the people who are physically around them. It's just I mean like we're just you know we're not going back to that. And if you look throughout history, it's like when people like first built cities, you know, there were all these um there's a lot of kind of nostalgia for the the simpler life and things like that. It's like, okay, yeah, and and yeah, sure, maybe maybe cities aren't better in every single way, and some people might prefer to kind of only go sometimes or whatever, but but I I I just think it's like we're we're building more and more capabilities as society. And I think that that's sort of I just think about this stuff more as like an environment in which we live. So then it's more like if Yeah. Like some I think like cuz I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have. It's like well we're moving into such a like technology is advancing so much faster, right? It's accelerating the advancement speed and then we're just humans and we're in this the space now where there's like one generation to the next where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really. Um yeah. So I wonder and I think the older generation probably sees it as like man this is so negative everybody's stuck but I wonder if the younger generation do they even know any different right you know like just I start to wonder what is the value of being human like like what is the does that start to dissipate as we become more technologically advanced or does that alter like do you think about that sometimes yeah I mean look I think it's going to give people the freedom to focus more on the things that they want. I I think if you look at the arc of of history, go back like I mean before you know in ancient times life was like pretty brutal, right? It's like okay. So then then you go to like maybe right before the industrial revolution where they had team toilet paper at one time they had like group toilet paper and it was like Yeah. That's I mean that's not good. That's not good. Yeah. And I don't think I mean I don't you don't want to Yeah. No, it's I I think anyone who has nostalgia for the past really is not taking into account the disease and the lack of hygiene that existed in the past. So I think that there's is So anyway, but pre-industrial revolution, I think some huge percent of the population was farmers because basically everyone needed to be focused on growing things in order to have enough food. Then we basically got to the point where okay, now we can start to produce food much more efficiently. So that actually frees up a lot of people to not have to be farmers. Now maybe like 2% of people can be farmers and 98% of people can do other stuff. So now we people start doing more kind of other creative stuff and inventing new things and um and at each step along the way uh kind of like being a farmer is a really hard job, right? It's like you're working like a lot of hours and and and and now as as kind of people got more options, they they took other jobs. Um but then we've also seen this mix where the percent of people's time that has gone towards leisure and entertainment has just steadily increased over time. Um and I just think that that's going to continue to be the case with technology. We'll have more stuff that will make it so that the basic needs um are taken care of, which will free people up to do some combination of more creative jobs and not have to work as hard if they don't want to. But I think some people are going to like working all the time like me and um and you'll be able to do that too and get more done than you could have ever possibly done in the past. Um but that'll be sort of a choice. And well since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know, um do you how do you know that what your convictions are how do you gauge if what your convictions are are the best for everybody kind of like how do you kind of figure that out? You know, it seems like such a challenge. Yeah. Well, does that make sense to the question or No. No. Yeah. No, I I think I get what you're asking. Um, I mean, look, at the end of the day, um, there are still a lot of options of things that people can do. Just because I build something doesn't mean that people are going to use it. Actually, a lot of the things that I build, like some some of them work, some of them don't. And like, I think part of the reason why the company's been successful is because, you know, maybe we have a slightly higher hit rate of things working than others. But it's kind of like I don't know in baseball it's like most people don't get on base most of the time, right? It's so it's it's like like running one of these companies you you more of the stuff doesn't work than does. And if we do something that doesn't work then in general people aren't going to use it and then the future doesn't go in that direction. So I see. So you're saying it's up to the user more. Yeah. I mean, look, I I I kind of think um one way to look at the world is that there there's a version of history that says that like individual people are very powerful and have a lot of kind of autonomy and ability to to kind of go in the direction that they think is right. And then there's like all these other narratives where people try to kind of diminish people's autonomy and authority. And I I'm just like I've always been a person who really kind of believes that people understand people are smarter than people think. Um Yes. And and I think in general um are able to make good decisions for their lives and when they do things that like the media or whatever thinks don't make sense, it's generally because the media doesn't understand their life, not because the people are stupid. Um like if people are saying something that seems wrong, it's not usually misinformation. And it's usually that you don't understand what's going on in that person's life. And I I just think that there's like a certain kind of paternalism in in some of the like mainstream narratives and some of the media narratives, but like a know-it-allism almost. Yeah. It's like I there has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more. Yeah. I think it's a little more receptive as as maybe some of those cultural or media elite people like are having a harder time predicting what's going to happen in the world. Maybe there's a little more humility of like, okay, maybe we don't understand all of this. But but to me, the best predicting thing has always been like, all right, if you build something, do people actually think it's good? Because like at some level, you know, it's like I just believe that people are actually very smart and understand their lives very well. And if you're building something that is useful for them, then they will use it. And if you're using something and if you're building something that is not useful for them, then they have other options. They will they will do something else. Um, and so I don't know, it's always served me well to generally have faith in people and believe that people are smart and can make good decisions for themselves. And whenever we try to like adopt some sort of like attitude of, oh, we must know better than them. It's like we're like we're the people building technology, that's when you lose, right? Right. And if you do and if you have that attitude for long enough, then you just like become a shitty company and you lose and you lose and you lose and then you're irrelevant. So, um, so I I I tend to just think that at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, I think people are smarter than than a lot of people think and I think ultimately drive the direction that society goes in. you um so like people a lot of times like there's guys who are like kind of you know Elon Musk is probably like a socially awkward guy and I would say that I mean I think that's we all are right we all are right I think we all are and it's interesting that there's like probably people have I mean have you ever felt socially awkward over your years no I'm I'm I'm really smooth no obviously yes I'm like the most awkward person people have been calling me a robot bought online for 20 years. It does wonders for my confidence. No, your confidence cannot be impaled. I don't think that's one thing you have that's probably a a sheer northstar inside of you. It's got to be Well, you might have become bulletproof. I think there's times where Yeah, you seem like a guy who probably like like watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know? But I think we all we all go through like we're all like awkward in different ways, you know? you put you in certain environments you're not at all. I But I think it's interesting that there's I haven't found those environments yet. But maybe, you know, it's dude, even being here today, bro, is nice of you. It's nice of you to be here today. No, I I think the podcasts are awesome because you're just like you get to explore something, right? For sure. But here's my question. Sorry, Mark. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'm not going to get another chance to. So my question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who have would probably self-describe as socially awkward at times kind of creating technology that socially connects people? That's the thing that do you ever kind of find that kind of fascinating? Cuz I've always had a belief that that that like sometimes socially awkward people are almost a mix between human and like mach like like the future or something. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah, you know, I it's an interesting question. I I I just think that there are a bunch of factors here that you need to peel apart. Um I think someone can be socially perceptive and understand kind of what is going on in social dynamics and have a lot of empathy and care about other people while still being quite awkward. in how they communicate and um and so I I don't think you can build a great Yeah. I'm trying to build too broad of a bridge. No. Well, I I think it's a fair point, right? I mean, it's like, all right, a lot of social media is like people creating great content and um and kind of communicating really well. And those are not my biggest strengths, right? It's like I'm I'm I don't think I'm the best communicator by a long shot. I mean, I think I kind of got to where I am because I I I think I kind of understand what people like and I have the ability to build it, but I I don't think my strength is like, oh, I can really like communicate about why what I'm building is awesome. I I generally like to like to make it my work speaks for itself. and I try to explain it so I can kind of explain how I'm thinking about it, but but I don't think people primarily like using our stuff because, you know, they saw me talk about it and they're like, "Oh, yeah, this seems super exciting now." Um, but but I think the ability to kind of communicate in a way that is not awkward is a different skill um than the ability to kind of understand and have empathy for for kind of people and and social interactions. And it's, you know, there's an interesting thing where I actually think sometimes a lot of the people who can communicate in the smoothest way sometimes have a lot less empathy and understanding of social dynamics than the kind of nerdy guy who may not be able to express himself quite as well, but sort of understands a little bit better what's going on. Um, and I don't know, the world's complicated and there's like multiple dimensions to all this stuff and no one's good at all of them. So, you just, you know, try to do the things that you're you like hone the things that you're good at and try to put it to service to, you know, do as good of work as you can. Yeah. I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think that one something isn't social and then the younger generation thinks that it is social. Yeah. And so I feel like in some senses we're at this crossroads kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit um and this advancement and sometimes those steps are uh are kind of tricky to take. Um this is my last question cuz I know you have to go. Um so I feel like Elon Musk has like a like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate different planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing, dude. He's just blasting his seat out into the different rockets, whatever, you know? He's just out there, you know, he's like the Johnny Apple solar system, you know, but God bless. But no, God bless 100%, dude. And yeah, 100%. Um, and I'm just joking. He I think he probably would know that, but um I I just think it's interesting like you get his you get what his ideas are. He wants to like we want to be on Mars and we want to send the rockets and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff and you're such an innovator and a leader. like what is what do you feel like is your kind of it's not a goal but kind of where do you what do you what draw like what is the thing where you see us you know like where you're at a point where like man this is what I'm really proud of and this is where I see us going because you know we're all on this bus together going somewhere and we don't exactly know where we're going because it's the future. Yeah. But you're kind of you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus you know at least riding shotgun. So, it's like where are we going? I I mean, I think different people just care about about uh different parts of of uh the future, right? So, the space thing, I think it's cool. I'm glad that people are working on it. It's never really been my my main thing. Um, for me it's all it's it's kind of been about the intersection of of how do you build technology that helps people connect with each other and understand the world better and um and just taken different formats over time, right? So, you got started people you know mostly like you know writing text then you know then we got smartphones and um we got cameras with the smartphones. We started taking a lot of photos and sharing that. And now now most of what we do is video, right? The mobile networks are are good enough that you can like share great video. It used to be great. Yeah. 10 years ago you try watching a video, it's like buffering buffering. It's like, okay, this is this is terrible. But now now it's good. Um people always want to both kind of express their ideas and experience other people's ideas in whatever the richest format is that they can. So, if that was going to be text, then that was the best that they had. Great. Photos, visual, great. A picture's worth a thousand words. Video better than photo for most things. But I don't think that's the end of the line, right? I just think um we're going to be here, whether it's 5 years or 10 years. And I think the ability to like fully capture moments um to really be able to experience them. I think that's sort of the hologram thing that we're talking about. Um, I think that that's just going to be like the next level of um of people being able to express like ideas. Yeah. Like the next like blank canvas. So, I think that's one thing. And then there's the whole AI thing which we haven't spent time on. But we should we should um which that is really going to um give people a lot of new tools to to kind of um both just get smarter at everything they do. And um and if you look at the world like I do through this lens of how do we express ourselves and how do we kind of take in an understanding of what's going on, AI is just going to be super powerful for for both of those. It's um I mean you can already see some of the basic stuff with like people creating images or it's unbelievable. I mean it's crazy how fast it's happening too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening. Yeah. But do you think like do you envision this like are you just like like what do you envision that will be on these like surf do you have like kind of like a utopian idea or do like I just wonder how do you see things cuz you're the only like you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought. I don't know. I don't know. Well that we you know you're one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So, it's like how do you what is it what is it like out there? I I mean I I think that we're going to get general intelligence. Um we're going to have systems that are smarter than um than any individual. And I think it's mostly going to be very empowering for people f first of all look I mean there are already systems that are smarter than any one individual today right if you take like a company right it's like okay you got like a thousand people or 10,000 people who are all kind of like working towards you know ostensibly working towards a goal together like I you know if the intelligence of a 10,000 person company is not greater than the intelligence of a single person and like what are we doing here right so there are already these systems in the world that have this sort of super intelligence that is far exceeds what any one person can do. And I I just think like instead of having relatively few people be able to kind of harness the power of like you have the ability of you know you have a 10,000 person organization that can um that can help you build the things that you think are good. I just think in the future almost everyone is going to have that and that's cool. What does that mean? It means that more ideas are going to get tried out. Um, so we might be up like leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI. Yeah. And and I think it's going to be every field, right? So like science will get more advanced. Um, like we'll get more productive, but like I think a big part of the internet is stuff just gets more fun and funnier and like the memes get weirder and more specific and like that is advancement too, right? It's almost like universal basic technology kind of in a way. Yeah. just the the ability to to kind of express these like very complicated ideas in like a very simple piece of media. I I think we're going to get better and better at that and that advances our kind of understanding of ourselves as a society. So, um yeah, I don't know. I I I think we'll get super intelligence and I would guess that it will be um a continuation of this trend that humanity has been on for a hundred plus years of basically getting more time to do creative things, less time having to do drudgery, not having to spend as much time working if you don't want, but if you want to uh dedicate your life towards that, you're going to have more powerful tools than you could ever have possibly imagined. So, it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice is how you see that. Like just kind of that sort of thing. What do you mean? It's not like you're like like convicted to this sort of like future as we advance. Like it's just a space of choice. If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those. And if you want to be able to do these things, you can do those. There you are on the bus right there. There you go. I mean, that's a little weird of a photo, but I do not think that is good. I do not think that is good. Um I don't like that at all. And we thank you for telling us that though. Horrible AI. Yeah, I think that was open AI, dude. So, sorry about that. Um, do you think you do you think you'll live forever, Mark? Is that a thought coming to your head, man? Um, that is an interesting question. I I think you have two minutes to answer then you have to leave. Yeah. No, I I don't know. Live forever. Gosh, I I think at some point we will like a lot of Well, let me come at it this way. our um outside of meta um my the philanthropy that I do with with Priscilla the Chan Zuckerberg initiative is primarily focused on curing diseases and the way we're doing that is not by focusing on any single disease it's by focused on kind of basic technology at the intersection of AI and biology to accelerate the pace of science and we originally thought that kind of a hundred years when we started was sort of around the time frame to be able to cure and prevent and like deal with all diseases. I think there's a chance that that happens sooner than um you know because of because of all the work with with AI. I guess I'm I'm more optimistic about that now. Um whether that means that like we are going to live forever or we just have healthier lives for the period that we're supposed to be living and then at some point like your human body is done. Um I I don't I don't think we understand that yet enough. But um but a lot of curing diseases is not just about living forever. It's about having better lives and and it's like and it's like while you're alive like you don't want to have to deal with [ __ ] right? It's like like where you're just like you feel terrible because you're sick or like you're injured or there's you know. So, do you think it's possible like do you when you because you have an understanding of like science and being human that is that is way supersedes a lot of people's do you um do you think it's possible that we could figure that out curing all diseases uh to be able to like live to keep life like do you think it's possible we could figure out how to do it I think it's possible um I I don't know it's honestly it's not an area that I've studied that much and it's um you didn't know because we don't know we don't know what's going on Mark and we just want you to tell us yeah I mean No, I don't know. I don't know. I Let's Let's check back in in 10 years on that. I think that as as the the AI stuff makes more progress, I think we'll we'll kind of get a sense of the trajectory for that. But but I I think it's just going to unlock a lot of creativity and productivity and fun. And like I I think people the technology industry misses fun a lot. I think that that's like one observation that I've had building stuff out here is um people are very focused on like all right, we're going to make like a better word processor. We're going to like process information better. Cool. Um, but I don't know. A lot of what people care about is just like, all right, I want to like be entertained. I want like I want my life to be fun, right? I want I want something that's funny that I can then go show to my friends and then we can talk about that and like and then just hang out and have a good time like showing each other funny things and like talking about what the world is. And I think AI is going to make this stuff all great. So, um, I don't know. I mean, it's I I do think this is this is a big a big focus for us and we're building this meta AI. Um, it's our we call it personal AI. I mean, our goal on this is not just to build something that's like I mean, yeah, it's going to be super smart, right? It's it's like, yeah, we're trying to solve full general intelligence and super intelligence and all that, but I think in order to build a product that people are going to want to use, um, you're going to want to build something that's fun to use. That means like you're not just going to want to like type to it. You want to like have a conversation, right? And and it's not just about having it be like only able to answer hard questions. It should like get to know you and like what you think is funny and like what you ate, right? So that way you know it can like or you know what your hobbies are so that way it can kind of relate to you. And um I think people don't know that AI can do that. I think we need we're we're missing quickly I think in education educating people how to what AI is and how to use it. I think I noticed even in my own life and I spend a lot of time online and involved in stuff but I think people are not understanding what's going on. So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can I think whoever can also serve people the best way to educate themselves is going to be able to best exert um or um be able to best uh coagulate people to their AI um model or whatever. heard coagulate used that way or Yeah. or something like that because that's the big thing. A lot of people are like, "We have the best eye." But most people are like, "What the hell is what are we doing?" You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, anyway, sorry. I think I kept you longer than we were supposed to, but um yeah, sorry we got on a lot of technological stuff. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we don't know what's happening and sometimes we want to talk, we get to talk to somebody like you and it's important, you know. Yeah. No, it's good. This is a fun conversation. Yeah, man. I enjoyed it, too, man. Um Yeah. Thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with us and um just I hope that yeah just keep make sure we stay alive or whatever if we're supposed to and just keep taking working on it. Okay, that's all we can ask for now, sir. Awesome. Mark, thanks. Appreciate it, brother. Yeah. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be corner stone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found. I can feel it in my bones. Also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental. That's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California. They um glued my tooth was broken and they glued it back together uh before the interview uh today. So, I'm thankful that they helped and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks,