good morning everyone let's start with a word of Prayer let's go to the Lord before the throne of grace father we thank you for this day being the giver of life of the physical life but also spiritual life in Christ Jesus our Lord thank you also for being the God of truth and that you have imparted truth to your people people through the Scriptures and the ability to understand it through the Holy Spirit and we thank you for that gift as well we commit our study to you in Christ's name a min okay in just a moment on a pass up the handout of the day this class called theological systems by way of review we're actually this is the eighth class but technically it is lesson number seven because if you recall we did covenant theology in two lessons which wasn't what I originally intended but there was just too much information so when you see the handout it says lesson seven even though we've had eight classes just so you're aware of that and the topic of the day is Pentecostal and charismatic theology some of you may be familiar with it some may not some may be confused that's okay we're going to attempt in about 55 minutes to just do a survey and overview of one of the most complicated Christian movements in the last 2,000 years we'll see how we do as always I'm going to get your input on it at the beginning and also want to remind you that for this class because some of you may be at this sunday-school class for the first time this is called theological systems we're looking at paradigms belief systems hermeneutics approaches to interpreting Scripture whereby Christians interpret the Bible so these are distinct specific definitive theological approaches that Christians have when they read their Bible and we've been talking about how everybody has well the ones we've been talking about it's kind of a lens that people bring to script there's oh there's the Bible I'm going to study the Bible and now I'm going to read the Bible through my particular one my theological persuasion that's the idea so really this class isn't just about theology systematic theology as much as it's about hermeneutics and we know and I've talked about that hermeneutics is the the rules of interpretation of the Bible hermeneutics is the rules of interpretation are the science of interpreting Scripture and we use the process of exegesis X means out pulling the truth out of the Bible leading truth out of the Bible exegesis exegesis is applying the rules of hermeneutics so that is absolutely foundational we proposed that the biblical precedent model of hermeneutics was very good I heard it grammatical historical approach to hermeneutics that's or some would people would call that the literal literal approach to scripture the consistent literal approach grammatical historical we take the grammar seriously grammar syntax reading it in context and also reading the Bible as a historical document and trying to discover to the best of our ability the actual historical background of each passage and we apply that same approach from Genesis to Revelation a consistent hermeneutic and key to that is just trying to be as objective as possible when you go to the Bible you're not we're not bringing our thoughts and foisting them on the Bible we're not bringing relevant cultural issues of what's going on in the day and forced it on the Bible we don't ask the question what does the Bible mean in light of what's going on today we would say that's an illegitimate subjective question because that would change from day to day culture to culture so we want to go to Scripture objectively some would argue that you can't go to Scripture objectively and I would say yes we can because God has God is an objective God when he saves his people he gives them the Spirit of God to live in them to help them understand scripture he gives them teachers as a gift of the church to help them understand Scripture we don't always objectively understand everything all at once but at the same time God guarantee that we can go to scripture objectively and understand his work that's called the clarity of Scripture or the first vacuity of Scripture it's an arduous process it takes time we have to mature and grow in our faith we need help from others we need help from God we need help from the Holy Spirit plenty of times you go to a passage and you say oh I don't know what that means because we are finite we are fallen so those are the challenges they're real but they don't undermine the reality that God has promised we can go to his word objectively to understand what he wants us to understand what he has to say God is not trying to trick his people he's not speaking in secrets he wants his people to understand his word so that's our approach so we continue to go to Scripture with a literal grammatical historical objective approach to Scripture so we can understand what God has to say today's theological system that brings a specific lens or paradigm by which to study scripture would be the charismatic the Pentecostal charismatic theology and there is definitely a Carus Pentecostal charismatic hermeneutic and they bring that to scripture as a matter of fact there's a well-known Study Bible and it's the spirit-filled Study Bible I believe it's called one of the general editors I think was Jack Hayford who was a Pentecostal charismatic pastor for decades down in Southern California and Van Nuys he's an evangelical a believer and at the end of his life one of his life's works was this spirit-filled Study Bible so that was a very deliberate attempt at studying the whole Bible from an a charismatic Pentecostal viewpoint so that's what we're looking at today what are the distinctives of this charismatic Pentecostal viewpoint in studying Scripture before we go to my handout here here's what you said I asked all of you excuse me what is charismatic and then your sentence was supposed to say a charismatic is not what is charismatic theology but what is it charismatic like the individual a charismatic is so maybe I didn't make that clear enough but well we get the gist of what saying some of you like to write long sentences the Apostle Paul wrote a couple of long sentences maybe you're copying him from the book of Ephesians so we'll read some of the short ones and then the long ones a charismatic is typically confusion said someone charismatic is being close to God charismatic is those who believe the second baptism of the Holy Spirit and believe all the gifts are still active today a charismatic is one who emphasizes direct personal experience with God for the baptism of the Holy Spirit the charismatic is a person who is always always positive and honest why are you laughing I didn't know there was such a person on planet Earth but Jesus was always honest he wasn't always positive remember when he cleansed the temple twice and made everybody mad and it says he raised his voice a charismatic is misinformed about the work and person of the Holy Spirit a charismatic is someone who believes the gift of tongues and prophecy and the interpretation of tongues exist today Jairus a charismatic is a crazy interpretation of the Bible let me read those together in juxtaposition with one another a charismatic person is someone who is always positive and honest and then someone else had a charismatic is crazy interpretation of the Bible so a charismatic believes all the sign gifts are still valid for too daya charismatic is regarding the gift of speaking in tongues as the highest ranking gift which serves as evidence for the indwelling of the holy spirit and indicates the measure of maturity of spirituality of the believer boy that's a mouthful but there's some good stuff in here a charismatic is one who regards the gift of speaking in tongues as the highest ranking gift number one that's disputable and debated I know charismatic to actually believe that and teach that I know other charismatic who don't agree with that so it depends on which charismatic you're talking to and the gift of speaking in tongues serves as evidence for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that is also true that's part of the history we're going to look at today so thanks for all of those very interesting and reminds me and shows me I may use these as Diagnostics to kind of survey the audience is there confusion do we disagree do eat and all the more necessary to go over it today so let's see if we can do a survey of Pentecostal and charismatic theology first I'll start out with the definition your handout is coming now just by way of reminder in these studies we're trying to be as objective as possible on all these theological systems I haven't always let you know depending upon the theological system whether it's dispensationalism covenant 'el theology the charismatic Pentecostal approach I haven't always told you what my perspective is personally like I believe this I don't sometimes it leaks out and you figure it out because actually my goal isn't to tell you what I personally believe my goal is to be as objective as possible representing this particular viewpoint from the perspective not of a critic but from the perspective for the most part of someone who's an advocate of the system so today I hope to accurately represent the history and the theology of the Pentecostal charismatic view of Scripture and in preparation and in study I did study many respected really highly influential high-profile evangelical charismatic sfrom pastors to scholars and theologians or just well-known popular Bible teachers who are charismatic so that's my primary source studied a few evangelicals who are sympathetic to the charismatic movement but don't claim to be charismatic but they're open to it so I also studied their perspective as well actually have talked to some of these and interacted with them personally and also have looked at what critical evangelical scholars have said regarding this movement and just trying to be as objective as possible so before we get to this a little personal disclosure so I teach at the Cornerstone seminary up in near Vallejo been there about 13 14 years teach various classes one of the electives that I do teach is called the sign gifts are they for today and so our textbook is for views on the sign gifts what are the sign gifts well primarily from the book of Corinthians they would be revelational gifts or the miraculous gifts like prophecy Apostleship miracle speaking in tongues interpreting tongues those are the sign gifts they were of a divine supernatural outward manifestation in nature validating that God was alive and speaking and giving new revelation and so the book is an evangelical book I think it's by Zondervan for views of the sign gifts so I've taught that class at our seminary I think the editor is Wayne Grudem well-known theologian evangelical and he they chose four very well-known evangelical respected scholar so they're all Evangel they're Christian men he's for men and they have four different views about the sign gifts so there was a one theologian who said no sign gifts ceased in the first century with the Apostles Richard Gaffin you may still be alive today's probably in his 80s wonderful godly man reformed theologian I think from Westminster seminary then there's Sam storms who's a pastor but also a scholar he went to Dallas seminary among other places he didn't grow up Pentecostal as far as I know or charismatic but he came a charismatic and so in that book he represents the charismatic view that gifts are for today with some modifications and restraints then there was Robert's OC who is now in heaven I had him for a class about thirty years ago he's not a care he was not a charismatic he taught it Talbot seminary for fifty years very highly respected and his view was open but cautious he's not a charismatic but he doesn't fooey the charismatic movement he was open to it he actually thought it's possible God could be doing this among the charismatic so that's called open good good that was his view then the fourth you was a classic Pentecostal theologian his name Doug Oz and those four men wrote this book they interacted with one another had a discussion they were very gracious with one another they all knew the gospel very clearly the gospel of Jesus Christ but they did disagree on the sign gifts and after we read the book at my class I actually emailed all four of the men and asked him if they would Skype into my seminary class to do Q&A with my students after we read the book they all four agreed to do that not Robert so si did not because he would already gone to heaven that would have been cool to have him because he would have had all the correct answers but anyway his son is a wonderful pastor mark so si and so I emailed mark and and he did he Skyped in on behalf of his father and he thought he was probably the best person who could represent his dad's view and so for an hour each of in four successive weeks we interacted and had Q&A with these four very well-known scholars the four different perspectives the students found it incredibly edifying and we learned a lot but they definitely disagreed on the nature of the sign gifts so let's go ahead and look at theological systems lesson number seven Pentecostal and charismatic theology first with a definition of what is Pentecostal charismatic theology what is it it's difficult to summarize so this is my definition after all my study distilled it down in its compact it's loaded every phrase mean something specific but here's what I proposed it is a diverse and it is you can find charismatic theology in just about every pocket of Christianity on planet Earth today it is diverse it's not just one autonomous distinct cloistered denomination today it's everywhere didn't start out that way hundred years ago but it's that way today you can find Pentecostal charismatic theology in every denomination you can be a dispensationalist and be charismatic you can be a Calvinist and be charismatic today you can not historically you can be a liberal theologian and be charismatic it's that you can be a Catholic and be charismatic it it is truly ubiquitous people throw that word around sometimes not in the right way that means it's everywhere all at the same time that's that's true of this movement so it is diverse it is trans denominational it's not limited to one denomination there are denominations that are strictly Pentecostal the Assemblies of God the Foursquare Church etc etc what it goes beyond that it's not confined to a denomination that hasn't always been true early on it was confined to a specific denomination that's not true anymore so it is a diverse trans denominational 20th century religious phenomenon so it is new it's it definitely started in the 20th century in 1901 the Pentecostals will agree with that that's in their writings that's what they say started in 1901 and then again in 1906 and just grew from there they're not ashamed of that they embrace that so this is one of the few systems that can be traced to in terms of its start those owning its legacy says it started in 1901 you talked to a dispensationalist and a critic of dispensationalism will say oh your movement is recent it started in the 1800s and then a dispensationalist will say no it didn't it started earlier than that and they'll fight and quibble about that as well or covenant theologian ort back with the Apostles and Moses and Augustine no didn't it's a novel system that started after the Reformation and the covenant theologians don't want to embrace her own that that's different than the Pentecostals they're okay with you saying well then this movement start like in the 20th century like a hundred years ago and if they're honest they'll usually yeah they're not ashamed of that as a matter of fact I think that's a good thing that proves the point God wasn't speaking for trees because the church was disobedient kind of like Israel right all throughout Israel's history times of obedience and disobedience and sometimes God would refrain from speaking to them chasing them through silence and no revelation like 400 years from Malachi to the New Testament and the Pentecostals will say the same thing the charismatic will say the same thing yeah true there is some silence in history but there's been a latter rain there's a new wave of God doing great things because it is the end times so they are the fulfillment of Joel chapter 2 in many other passages so that's not disputed 20th century religious phenomenon in the Christian it is in the Christian to tradition I want to define my parameters here there is much that falls under the umbrella of the Pentecostal charismatic movement some of those are the fringes some of those are blatantly heretical groups so I don't want to talk about the heretical groups today because there are many for example the prosperity gospel tends to be charismatic I'm Pentecostal not talking about the prosperity gospel I would consider prosperity gospel preachers heretics and not mainline evangelical Christianity also the Word of Faith Movement I would not put them in this camp they they are also charismatic or Pentecostal in many ways I'm not talking about that group either because the Word of Faith Movement is heretical it is not Christian it's not biblical they don't have a simple basic Bible gospel so I'm not talking about the fringes or these very dominant influential heretical groups so talking about evangelical Christians who understand the gospel and are committed to Scripture and if you were talking to them you would discern this is probably a believer so this is there in line with mainline Christianity so that's an important distinction so in the Christian tradition what do they emphasize what's the distinctive what makes a charismatic a charismatic they emphasize the practice of the prophetic and sign gifts I don't see how you can be a charismatic and say that the gift of prophecy doesn't exist today to me that's one of the litmus tests I believe prophecy is a gift for today then to me then your charismatic one of the most influential supporters of the charismatic movement for the last 40 years was see Peter Wagner of fuller seminary early on he was supporting the signs and wonders movement and the charismatic movement but he would say well I'm not a Pentecostal or charismatic but you look at the scope of his ministry all of his writings what he practiced what he did what he believed no he was a charismatic and a very strong one he believed in prophecy ongoing prophecy he believed the gifts were for today he believed he was an apostle he believed there were apostles today so early on he said well I'm not a charismatic but he believed in it no that's not true he was a charismatic by a simple definition basically distilled down to believing that there's ongoing revelation from God through the modern-day gift of prophecy and some of the sign gifts particularly the gift of tongues so one of you nailed it the gift of tongues that's kind of an earmark as well of being a charismatic I speak in tongues actually the historical Pentecostal view is if you don't speak in tongues then you're not a Christian so if you're really a Christian you will speak in tongues it's the sign validating you have been saved or another view is that it's a sign that you've been filled with the spirit evidence by speaking in tongues that's their phraseology so ongoing prophecy and the gift of speaking in tongues those kind of if you had to narrow it down that's the charismatic they also believe in extra biblical revelation so they on the one hand they'll say yeah the Bible is the Word of God the Bible is the authority the Bible is sufficient and on the other hand do you believe in ongoing revelation from God yes I do wait you said the Bible was sufficient yes and the authority yes but you said God is still speaking today yes and there's ongoing revelation yes I am confused so that's that's a problem they also believe in elevate personal subjective ecstatic experiences so it's proposed they're about five hundred get this five hundred million Pentecostal charismatic in the world today five hundred million that would include some of the earlier sects I was talking about the Word of Faith Movement the other fringe prosperity gospel people charismatic Catholics so that's all under that umbrella five hundred million so that's a half a billion people I wouldn't say that they're they represent five hundred million Christians these are five hundred Pentecostal charismatic whose main identity or common ground is not a a creed or a doctrine it's a shared experience usually a personal subjective sometimes mystical one and also this shared view of speaking in tongues that they had personally and a shared view that there's ongoing prophecy that's the common denominator so the common denominator is not the integrity of the simple gospel in the Bible although most of them would say oh yeah absolutely the gospel is essential but many of them get the gospel wrong those fringe groups for example so what is the origin of the present-day Pentecostal charismatic theology it's easier to talk about the history of this movement that it is to try to define and explain it today I can't do justice up here to represent 500 million different various diverse disparate charismatic Sande Pentecostals they come in all sizes and shapes you could have a very conservative theologically grounded charismatic Calvinist like a Sam storm highly educated with PhDs and then you could have an uneducated and don't want no education but had an experience but believes in the gospel and is a Christian and what's really born again and they have also embraced many of the views of the charismatic experience they're very different so we're just going to do best we can right now just a little history lesson on the origin of this movement so I'd say it comes in three waves or three feet they like to talk about the three waves of the spirit so Joel chapter two happened God was silent and then he came down on the world starting in America starting in Topeka Kansas in 1901 that's when it all started it started with the Pentecostal movement so for the first fifty years it's the Pentecostal movement it's not the charismatic movement the charismatic movement terminology comes later in the 60s and after so primarily we're dealing with Pentecostal is a Pentecostalism and it's appropriate term because it comes from the word Pentecost from Acts chapter 2 where by this Holiness Methodist Reverend Charles Fox parem Parham parem from Topeka Kansas who had married a Quaker wife a Quaker they shake because they have these mystical experiences of the Spirit when they shake that's why they're called Quakers that was his wife and then he also had a Methodist Holiness background as well which would be sympathetic to a charismatic experience and he was a pastor and he started a Bible School and he was influenced by different and various men who had ministries one of them was very influential in his life I would say that guy was a cult leader more than anything because of the stuff he believed in and taught and did it was very weird but he got under his wing and adopted a lot of his pneumatology or the works of the Spirit from this guy and then he started a Bible College and he had about 40 students he started in about 1900 this is Charles Parham and it was kind of an independent college it was gonna be filled with the spirit it's gonna be unique it wasn't a traditional seminary they were just gonna use the Bible in the Bible alone and they're gonna emphasize the book of Acts and Charles Parham read the book of Acts I was like man look what the Spirit is doing the spirits doing amazing things that aren't being done today why can't that happen to me why can't that happen to us why isn't that happening on earth today that needs to be happening God doesn't change God is always the same God can do anything he wants that needs to happen today so that's that was his thinking that was his worldview that's how he began praying and he thought he saw other people who were actually doing that he wanted to replicate that he's teaching this to his students and then after a year of existence at his Bible College in Topeka Kansas they have a prayer meeting and he's teaching on the book of Acts and he's made his influence on these young impressionable Bible college students and there was a young woman who was a student agnes osmond was her name I think it was in about 1901 New Year's Day and she asked well wow it's in the book of Acts and on Pentecost they all began to speak with tongues when the Spirit of God came down and like tons of fire on all the believers why can't we have that experience pastor Parham can you lay hands on me so that I might receive the Holy Spirit through the gift of tongues and so he did and he said all of a sudden light was shining a halo on her head fire and she began to speak in tongues actually she began to speak in Chinese she spoke in Chinese for three days for three days she couldn't speak in any English she was also able to write script in a foreign language she had never learned but it was Chinese it wasn't mumbo-jumbo it wasn't gibberish it wasn't undiscernible babble it was a real language this is how it started that was Charles parms view that many of his other students began to speak in tongues and he literally the LA Times was reporting on these things at the time the Houston Chronicle or whatever was newspapers we're hearing of this was spreading like wildfire all this stuff that was going on so there's written there's a lot of written testimony that still exists today of what was going on during that time and the early accounts are that Charles Parham was giving is that his students were speaking in legitimate human languages that they did not learn as a matter of fact he claimed to be able to speak in Swedish instantaneously having never studied it so that's the history of it today you get a totally different view when you're talking to somebody who's charismatic when they're speaking when they talk about speaking in tongues they're not talking about a known human language primer it's it is gibberish it's an unknown language it is not a human language they call the language of angels that only God can discern as first Corinthians 13 talks about when Paul said if I speak in the language of angels but have not love they say oh there it is Paul that's speaking in tongues well no it's not it's the language of angels what's that well it's the language that angels talk angels talk whatever it is it's discernible it's a legitimate language it's also hyperbolic the way Paul is using it anyway so this idea that speaking in tongues is gibberish non discernible non human language came much later they had to change their tune because of this idea that speaking in tongues and learning a known language is instantaneous today and by the way any Christian can get it if you're a Christian you can receive the gift of tongues that was a new doctrine that Charles Parham was promoting so anyway so that's where it started that was the Pentecostal tradition so Charles Parham he influenced a lot of disciples had a following one of the influential men he influenced was William Seymour who was a black man in Texas I believe Charles Parham got chased out of Kansas because he was a scoundrel by the way if you read his biography he was immoral he was a heretic Charles parm he was a heretic he wrote a couple of books you can still get online today read him how do you get saved by works by human effort other heretical things that he believed he he was a racist a full-blown racist he supported publicly the KKK the Ku Klux Klan in 1927 Charles Parham why it was rooted in his theology he believed that God created everything in six days and on the eighth day God created white people white people were superior in particular white Europeans were the new chosen people he was totally against interracial marriage especially with blacks and whites and Native American Indians and whites he condemned it he condemned it publicly even though he had these racist tendencies he appealed to the poor crowds that he ministered to which included the black community who were oppressed and he appealed to them and so much of his following early on was a diverse race of people including four people and educated people and the black community became dominant and so this William Seymour in Texas was a black man and he became a minister and he began to propagate parms Pentecostal teachings and then he ended up Seymour ended up coming to California Southern California Azusa Street is called in then in 1906 they had a prayer meeting and then the Spirit of God came down supposedly in the charismatic or the Pentecostal movement took off like never before they're having ongoing continual prayer meetings led by William Seymour with all kinds of just really unique know some people called literally the newspaper called it crazy weird activities going on sensations ecstatic behaviors in addition to speaking in tongues so-called miracles healings and this went on for like nine years on Azusa Street and was called the Azusa Street revival that is the history of Pentecostalism that's how it started Charles Parham came and observed it he heard about it that his disciple was doing this William Seymour and parem got a little nervous because it was over the top in terms of its crazy behavior and he reprimanded them and so he was booted up cut off he wasn't embracing it so this goes on so from that point on you've got major denominations coming together over this experience the Pentecostal experience from Acts chapter 2 that the Acts chapter 2 becomes normative every Christian should experience it really waters down the role of an apostle apostles really aren't that unique apostles as a matter of fact are for today and this unique experience that the Apostles had if you read through the book of Acts note carefully when all these miracles are happening and there's a phrase they're repeated that says and all these things were happening at the hands of the Apostles at the hands of the Apostles it that's pretty distinctive in the book of Acts the apostles were spearheading these miraculous miracles well Charles Parham said no everybody can do these things this is normative this should be expected for every Christian living on a higher plane of living if you are endowed with the Holy Spirit so this goes on it catches fire it's it's emotionally based it appeals to human emotion and significance and a lot of people embrace that Oh God is alive today he's doing today I can see it I can see a sign Jesus said that humans crave for science he actually said they lust after science that wasn't a positive thing so then he had denominations arise as a result you had the Pentecostal movement came out of this the four squared denomination came as a result so this began to grow like crazy and they gained tens of thousands of followers around the world then number two and then though there was the second way so the first wave was Pentecostalism Charles Park and initially speaking in tongues was the evidence of a Christian being filled with the spirit and the tongues was a known legitimate human language that you did not learn it was given to you instantaneously and then a key doctrine that Charles Parham introduced to the church for the first time in its 2000 year history it's nineteen hundred year history Charles Parham was probably one of the first ones on record to introduce I think it's first Corinthians chapter 12 verse 13 where Paul says we have been baptized by the Holy Spirit for 1,900 years everybody thought that meant the same thing that when you are born again the moment you believe the moment you get saved the moment you are reconciled by God the moment you're a redeemed because you believe in the gospel there's a supernatural transaction that takes place that God initiates through his invisible Holy Spirit whereby he makes you a child of God and he immerses you into the body of Christ supernaturally invisibly it's his work so being baptized with the Spirit 1st Corinthians chapter 12 is synonymous with being born-again or added to the body of Christ it's a one-time unrepeatable objective irrevocable work of God resulting from believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ if you are a Christian you have been baptized into the body of Christ 1st Corinthians 12 that's what it is always meant in the context that's the only thing it can mean Charles Parham gave it a new spin and said no this refers to the second level experience that you have in the whole spirit comes into your life and gives you the ability to speak in tongues so he separated the work of the holy spirit from the work of Christ and it has never been joined back by the charismatic Pentecostal movement since so that's what the charismatic believe even to this day as do the Pentecostals that is a unique teaching it's an unbiblical teaching it's unprecedented and it took root then so the first way Pentecostal tradition second wave is the charismatic tradition in the 1960s people it's hard to pin it down but they say in 1960 a liberal Episcopal pastor priest Dennis Bennett Southern California actually where I used to live in that neighborhood in 1960 he had a charismatic experience he made it public in 1960 when we got his full story later he admitted and revealed that he'd been meeting with people privately for weeks and weeks and weeks Bible studies pursuing this he wanted this he sought in the Pentecostals he craved it he wanted this experience this supernatural experience and he claims to have received it and then he supposedly began to speak in tongues this is the first time on record really where someone who is a leader in a known denomination other than a carers Pentecostal denomination embraced this idea of speaking in tongues and all of the gifts so it crossed the line there it is it spilled over the chasm has been breached or brought together so that's where they kind of pin at 1960 then it just kind of blew it from there because this was public news this was in the newspapers he went public he was let go and fired by his denomination so he went to another church and it was it had a great impact of this teaching and then just the charismatic movement began to flow out of this where even in the 1960s as a result of this crossing over to the Episcopal Church it began to cross over into the Catholic Church and that was a huge success as far as they were concerned so Catholics weren't Catholics weren't changing their theology they weren't becoming Pentecostals they were charismatic Catholics they believe all their Catholic doctrine I'm still praying to Mary I still believe in purgatory and I'm gonna add the fact that the sign gifts are for today and I'm gonna add that I can speak until it's in the Bible speaking in tongues is in the Bible prophecies in the Bible I mean after all the Pope ex cathedra speaks prophecy this is not crazy stuff so that's how it spilled over into the Catholic Church it made its way onto college campuses College campus ministries were embracing it even in the 60s Notre Dame University he had a revival there that's a Catholic University embracing charismatic theology so it just started to grow like crazy at this time in the nineteenth mid 1960 1965 Chuck Smith had a carrot Pentecostal background then he went into ministry became a pastor and then he started his churches down in Southern California during on the brink which actually started with the Jesus Movement there was an explosion of evangelism down in Southern California and then Chuck Smith became a pastor started a small church and then that church exploded and became Calvary Chapel Calvary Chapel is a charismatic church Chuck Smith was a pastor for over 40 years Southern California Costa Mesa and then there are calvary chapels all over the world today so all of these were contributing to the growth propagation legitimacy within the christian world so that was the charismatic tradition so the main distinctive of the charismatic tradition in the 60s was this Pentecostal idea of ongoing gifts of the spirit was spilling over into mainline denominations that was new pretty much for the most part embracing Pentecostal teachings on prophecy speaking in tongues healings miracles the miraculous subjective experience that's big a shared experience people make fun of charismatic if you do this you're charismatic but actually the Bible talks about lifting holy hands right but we all know what they're talking about they're they're they have less inhibition as opposed to the the proper British people who clapped like this and they'd never smile so wave number one Pentecostal tradition early nineteen Hazzard wave number two 1960s charismatic tradition wave number three this was called the signs and wonders movement two main movers and shakers see peter Wagner taught it fuller for 30 years on church growth and a big part of it was the signs and wonders movement charismatic movement later on in his life he became more more charismatic calling himself an apostle and starting coalition's like the International Coalition of apostles or I think you could email in sign in : and I guess pay the fee and you become an apostle that was kind of cool I never did that and then John Wimber John Wimber passed her down that he used to be a Calvary Chapel guy and then he's a little more extreme start his own branch the vineyard movement was called you were all kinds of books signs and wonders and power evangelism was a well-known book that he wrote I read the book because I was a new Christian and I was I thought everything that everybody said it was true if they quoted the Bible so I initially believed in John Wimber in the eighties I was brand-new Christian I read his book power evangelism but I'll never forget in the book John Wimber said that give me an hour with any unbeliever and I can make him a Christian guaranteed hundred percent look that is impressed that is better than Jesus that is awesome I wanted what is your true anyway John Wimber signs and wonders and it's taken off and now it's up to 500 million okay did it start in a vacuum well is it a new phenomenon yes in terms of all that coalesced and came together and the stars aligned and the latter-day rain and exploded and took off so it is in kind of a vacuum there was nothing like it before in terms of being embraced by the evangelical Christian world and continuing on unchecked and now being validated as a legitimate expression of Christianity that was so it was new in that regard but had historical predecessors that laid the foundation for it to succeed and all these predecessors had something in common these theological movements early in the church all throughout church history they didn't all have the same characteristics but they had key characteristics that the Pentecostal and charismatic movement would embrace all of those thread them together which constitutes their movement today and so throughout church history there were movements these were usually isolated movements within Christianity that emphasized ongoing revelation through prophecy this is after the Apostles throughout church history there were Christian movements that emphasized emotion enthusiasm a unique experience so all of these you will find in the charismatic and Pentecostal movement so some of these historical predecessors the first one that we have legitimate bona fide history that you can study is the montanus movement there's a man named montanus claim to be a Christian claimed to be a pastor and then he claimed to have the gift of prophecy he was a prophet he spoke prophecies he had a following he gathered a following he was into money he had two assistants or Co prophets who were prophet Tess's two women who ended up leaving their husbands to come with montanus and you can study about montanus and his two main prophet tess's and they had a ministry for over ten years and it created quite a significant storm in what we would say was modern-day Turkey or Asia Minor is where it started in the Galatia area and then it spread and then there were early Christian spokesmen who wrote about it condemned it shut it down examined it through the light of Scripture one of those was Irenaeus or Eusebius one of those and Tertullian also I believe initially was suspect of it but then Tertullian caved and actually he embraced some of this but the distinctive of that was the emphasis on ongoing revelation through prophecy as well as some of the other sign gifts he had in healing and those kind of things but it was condemned as heresy early on and then it just kind of fizzled out and died eventually after the sixth century you don't really find him wanting him anywhere and a Baptist groups not all Anabaptists were bad but some of them were prone to these emotional charismatic like experiences ongoing prophecy etc that's supposed to referent or at the time of the Reformation and a Baptist groups then there were the Quakers this is the religious Society of Friends in the 1600s the late 1600s George Fox II I don't know if you ever heard of George Fox University had a good friend who went to George Fox University George Fox came post-reformation he was discontent with all of the formalized religion and kind of a rogue guy and started his own thing it was very experientially oriented and was looking for the higher life through the work of the Spirit and signs and wonders through the Quakers and the Quakers would have these subjective experiences in their meetings they didn't do church they had meetings well they would face each other in their chairs and you'd sit there and you just wait till the spirit took over and then somebody get up and speak and then they'd have these experience and people they destructively wait that's why they recalled literally that's why they're called Quakers and quaking was kind of the evidence that the Spirit of God was moving so very subjectively oriented then in the 19th century which would be the 1800 you had the holy holiness Methodist movement on the tales of John Wesley's teaching where he believed in the higher life after you got saved there was a another coming of the Holy Spirit a unique work of the Holy Spirit that didn't happen when you got saved so they embraced that as well Charles Finney we already talked about him he was charismatic in a lot of different ways in the charismatic movement has embraced a lot of his practices not so much as theology as much as his behavior and his practices the Kazik movement not Keswick but Kazik movement that was in Britain had tendencies to the supernatural and the sign gifts among other things and then there was various prophets one prophet William Miller he was well known a tremendous following United States he was in all the newspapers and he predict that Jesus was coming in 1844 so the imminent return of Jesus Christ and then alarming people scurrying people manipulating people over that to gather a following to listen to you to follow you to give to you using the oh I've added up all the dates and Jesus is returning in 1844 and it was successful for him reason I point him out is because for the Pentecostal theology early on one of their main doctrines was the imminent return of Jesus Christ that they used in their evangelism here's the gospel you need to be safe because Jesus is coming soon do we believe Jesus is coming soon Maranatha yeah that's our heart's desire that is our prayer we can't guarantee that he could wait another two thousand years it's his discretion those times were not for us to know but they made it a point of emphasis there was an urgency you need to believe now you need to join the church you need to join our movement so this tributary came somewhat through his teaching so distinctive doctrines of the charismatic Pentecostal movement let's look I put five there are many but these are the main ones and I was trying to prioritize these if I had to what was the most distinctive teaching of the Pentecostal charismatic theology I would say number one that it was this new view of first Corinthians 12:13 of what it means to be baptized in the spirit baptized in the spirit I wanted somebody got that verse read it for us first Corinthians 12:13 just start reading out loud first Corinthians 12:13 thank you so to reiterate for by one spirit that's the Holy Spirit we that's all Christians there are no exceptions we were all baptized that's a past action it's a past one-time action I didn't do it I didn't do it by pleading for the Holy Spirit to come upon me to give me tongues it was a work that God did at his sovereign initiative the Spirit of God did it one-time action to all believers baptized simply means to be immersed or dunked it could be literal or it can be figurative here it is figurative or representing a spiritual reality that we can't see with our own eyes but God does it so when somebody believes in the gospel of Jesus Christ the moment and the actual the part of the process of being regenerated or born-again is the Spirit of God Himself baptizes you the sinner or immerses you into the believing family and body of God called the body of Christ and it's a one-time irreversible action that God does so if you are a Christian this happened to you you don't need to seek for it you don't you keep looking for it you don't need to look for a validating experience or emotion or outward manifestation if you're a Christian it already happened to you well I didn't feel anything I didn't get a warm fuzzy I didn't have a halo I didn't speak into it that's okay you are born again by not to be emotion but by believing believing the content of the gospel it's an act of the mind the intellect the will with understanding not what you did but what Jesus did on the cross died for sinners buried rose again offered himself as a sacrifice for sinners that you might be saved that's what we believe that's how you get saved what must I do to be saved an Enquirer asked Peter and Paul they said believe believe believe in the Lord Jesus believe in the gospel so it's not so this is this is what 1st Corinthians 12:13 means for by one Spirit we were all baptized every Christian into one body the body of Christ and it doesn't matter your ethnic background or your social status or your gender and we were all made to drink of one spirit what does that mean that we were giving the indwelling Holy Spirit who refreshes continually replenishes revives our soul because that was Jesus's promise in John chapter seven in the future if you become believer he's giving you the indwelling Holy Spirit that won't happen till after my resurrection Romans chapter 8 says if you don't have the Spirit of God living in you then you are not a believer if you are a believer you have the Spirit of God living in you and he is living water for years I believe that's what that verse means this verse has nothing to do with speaking in tongues it has nothing to do with ongoing sign gifts it has nothing to do with a higher life or some second or third experience that happens later in your Christian life with all of your pleading and asking God to give it to you so that's the traditional understanding that's the accurate understanding so that's that's the main distinctive of I think of what being a charismatic is in terms of a distinctive doctrine other distinctive doctrines of Pentecostal charismatic system giving a new meaning to being filled with the spirit Ephesians 5:18 fusions 580 to be filled with the spirit is different in meaning than being baptized in the spirit being filled with the spirit is a command this is important it's an imperative Ephesians 5:18 is a command first Corinthians 12:13 is not a command it's what God did we don't do it God did it fusions 5:18 is a command it's an ongoing command it's not an active command it's a passive command that means walk by the spirit put yourself in a place of obedience and you will be to be filled with the spirit means to be controlled that's the Greek word to be filled it's the same word used to be filled the Pharisees were filled with anger what does that mean they were controlled by anger word here be filled with the spirit be controlled by the Holy Spirit how do you do that keeping in line with the the Word of God being obedient trusting in God walking in faith and it's ongoing sometimes we're filled with the spirit sometimes we're not if we are disobedient we are not filled with the spirit if we are in sin we're not filled with the spirit if we repent and we're in God's will at that moment in line with the fruits of the Spirit then we are filled with the spirit in that given moment so a Christian is not always filled with the spirit it's day-to-day pastor cliff are you filled with the spirit well win yesterday at 3 o'clock when I had a lack of patience with my dog probably not but she deserved it anyway so they confused these terms they're giving them new meaning in the history of the church number three distinctive doctors their view of tongues first it started out as a legitimate language then it morphed and changed in today primarily is gibberish it's not a real language only God understands it many Karris Mattox believe that gift there are two gifts of tongues there's the gibberish kind that you can't understand and there's the real human language kind and many of them would say the tongues you see in Acts chapter 2 is different than the tongues you see in acts 12 through 14 Romans 8 is personal private prayer language between you and God that you do in your closet that only God knows and when you're praying in tongues and it's gibberish how do you do that literally you don't even understand it but the Spirit of God does and he's interpreting it for you your prayer language and so many Karris Mattox do put an emphasis and a priority on speaking in tongues absolutely essential to your personal growth it's a sign of being filled with the spirit it is a sign that you are a Christian you need to do it I when I was a young Christian I was supposedly baptized in the spirit people laid hands on me I received the gift of speaking in tongues I didn't feel like it but I was told I did and I was told to go home and practice two times a day for the next seven days and for twenty minutes each time and I did just as they said probably I go lock myself lock yourself in a closet your bedroom or the bathroom if you have to so the only room was a bathroom and I did and I practiced and it was weird and I gave up after three days and I thought this if I have the this is the gift I guess I don't want it because it's doesn't seem right but literally that's how it was being distributed and given out it was definitely not unknown human language that could be translated so this idea so that's more if this distinctive teaching that spirit by the way Oh we'll get it done a second prophecy Oh distinctive doctrines the prophecy is ongoing even though first Corinthians 13 does say that prophecy Paul the Apostle who had to get the prophecy said predict Paul prophesied the prophecy would cease first Corinthians 13 he prophesied that tongues would cease he prophesied that the word of knowledge which was a divine gift would cease knowledge it's the word of knowledge and he prophesied that prophecy would cease and it did not around for 1,800 years in the church but a distinctive of charismatic Pentecostal theologies that prophecy is ongoing today and as of 1978 according to wayne grudem's PhD dissertation on prophecy in first corinthians 13 and then later he turned it into a more popular book in 1988 and then another edition for the first time in the history of the church a well-known respectable Bible scholar had proposed a new brand new definition of prophecy and that is prophecy can be erroneous so you can have a prophet in your church stand up and say thus saith the Lord and then they give a prophecy and it's very possible that it could be wrong it could be right it could be wrong so to two things about wayne grudem's view of prophecy it could be wrong it might be right and also it's not as equally authoritative as the Bible first time in history that spoken prophecy is not equal to what is prophecy by definition it is the Word of God it's words from a direct revelation from God and that would be a charismatic Pentecostal definite they would agree with that what does prophecy it's when God speaks Oh the Word of God but on the other hand they want to say but prophecy spoken today is not as authoritative as the Bible so the Word of God is not authoritative as the Word of God that doesn't even make sense so this was Wayne Grudem it could be it could be false in other words allow so you have a true prophet in your church and that maybe there's 60 40 percent 60 good 40 bat that's okay just we got to be discerning and when he says things that are wrong dismiss it he's okay he's forgiven don't put much stock into it unless it could be paladin I remember when I was a teacher in Southern California at a Christian school and I had 7th grade students and it was the day after Bill Clinton got elected the first time in the 90s and I gave the devotion of the day there's 32 students in the class and one student raised their hand and said that their mom is a pastor at the local church it was a charismatic church and we had a mr. McManus we had a miracle service and a healing service last night and then we had a guest prophet come to our tree was so exciting said really and she and she just went on and said that yeah and you know you want to know what the prophecy was and I'm like whoa we got English class to cover here but yeah go ahead and share yeah so the prophet got up and said thus saith the lord president bill clinton will die before his first term is over this is the word of the Lord and then sat down and I'm I was aghast I was like wow this is what the Prophet said to your congregation yes she was excited cuz she thought it was you know this was a prophet this is what they said and so I took the students and I read Deuteronomy 13 in Deuteronomy 18 it says if somebody says I am a prophet and I say the and I say anything thus saith the Lord and that thing does not come to pass then that person is a false prophet and they are to be stoned to death and then my little seventh graders turn white and their eyes were about this big that's in the Bible yes so I'm not saying this prophet was not a true prophet but let's talk again in four years I talked to her four years later because we were both still at the same school that was a false prophet in the charismatic thanks to Wayne Grudem that would be tolerated that would not be designated as a false prophet so that is dangerous so that's the new definition that they go by with a Baptist or prophecy today okay let's go on to open but cautious category we got to close and then a couple questions sorry these are non care open but cautious these are non charismatic evangelicals these are Christians these are mostly scholars and Bible teachers of repute who say the sign just may be operating today in the charismatic move it's not for me but hey man it could be happening and one of the main arguments is because God can do anything and I'm thinking okay now the only people who say this in my personal experience are people who have never been inside the charismatic movement they are ignorant cowardly or deceived that's been my personal opinion most of them are ignorant who are these open but cautious people some of them you'll know John Piper Rick Warren Robert so see I loved Robert so see J I Packer Verne boy these are just top-notch scholars and when you talk to them you realize wow you there's a lot you don't know you don't have a clue what you're talking about that is not the charismatic movement that is not what they believe when you press them on a specific issue do you know what so you're open to this movement do you know what they believe about tongues do you know how I was taught about tongues to speak in tongues and the longer I have the conversation they don't want talking about those it it's not so that's that has been my limited perspective the open but cautious evangelicals of all the ones that I've talked to don't have all the information it's like all the respected evangelicals that I know who say what Catholicism is okay I'm a former Catholic of 19 years I know what in and out when I start pressing them and talking about the doctrines they actually believe they're again well they don't believe that yeah they do it's usually ignorance so that's not evil that's not a you I'm ignorant about a lot of stuff you can be honest in a man of integrity or a woman of integrity and be ignorant so it's you got to be open to the truth right and that's what we want to be so those are your open but cautious evangelicals strengths of the charismatic Pentecostal view people would debate whether there are any strengths they do have they had historically a literal view of Scripture creation Genesis is real they are fervent Romans 12 says be fervent in spirit they are definitely prayerful evangelistic many times they do get the simple gospel right and have Crusades and revivals and they share the gospel of Jesus everywhere they go I got friends that are charismatic they just they'll sit on the plane and tell everybody about Jesus and they got the gospel right the charismatic movement has forced evangelicals to re-examine and fine-tune Biblical pneumatology for the last hundred years that's a good thing weaknesses there are many because they believe in ongoing prophecy of necessity if you believe in ongoing prophecy then you have to believe in ongoing revelation if you believe an ongoing revelation you cannot say you believe in biblical sufficiency you undermine the authority of the Bible that's all there is to it and you can make kinds of arguments and go you're just gonna go in circles it's just not true if you believe that God is speaking through ongoing prophecy then you don't think he said his final word definitively through the scriptures that's probably the biggest weakness in this whole movement it undermine and then you've opened Pandora's box and as a result you have the other 14 items that I listed there which we can't go over charismatic evangelicals these were people who I would say we're Christians one of my favorite music artist Keith Greene he was a total charismatic and even gotten to Charles Finney at the end of his life sadly Chuck Smith is in heaven now j-rod when williams wrote the first i think ever comprehensive systematic theology from a charismatic Pentecostal point of view Gordon fee is an amazing commentary potater an exegetical scholar Sam storms godly man president the evangelical theological Society guest in my class I've talked to him a few times written a lot of books scholar formerly adela seminary so they got some movers and shakers in terms of scholars Ted Cruz you ever heard of him running for president the united states sovereign grace churches CJ Mohini did you know that CJ Mohini was an apostle that's what I was told by a friend of CJ Mohini a good friend of mine close friend hasn't always been charismatic became charismatic became Sovereign Grace guy and like ro do you believe the statement of faith of sovereign grace that all of the signs are alive and well today and he said oh yeah absolutely I said so so uh the gift of Apostleship you believe there are apostles today yeah I said name one he said CJ Mohini I said does CJ Mohini think he's an apostle he's got to own the title I've never heard him say that but maybe he has anyway so there it is in a nutshell Pentecostal charismatic theology any questions before we close yeah Scott there if agnes osmond actually spoke in Chinese on January 1st of 1901 were there witnesses was it validated what is your question can okay so interestingly I think it was there were newspapers that picked up on that and did interviews there are conflicting accounts and then apparently theoretically she wrote it down the gift of tongue whatever and it was examined by professionals it was called chicken scratch indiscernible chicken scratch so it could not be validated pardon Bethel Church in reading I would put in one of the two categories that I said I was going to be talking about today the leader of that I would say heretical doesn't fall under this camp of mainline evangelical Christianity I have friends a friend who goes to Bethel Church who I think is a Christian I'm talking about the teacher and leader of that church Adam the oneness pentecostals was a later development and exactly when that began I'm not quite sure in I think was around 1923 was Aimee Semple McPherson she actually started I think it was the Foursquare dominant but anyway so it's got quite a complex history and all these splinter groups so that's an that's another issue that would be another heretical group this idea that undermines the view of the Trinity that I wouldn't even call Christian and we're not talking about that heretical group but very influential Karen okay low Sally lolly what number is that Karen glossolalia okay glossolalia number 10 wrong blows blows ah Tong Tong first corinthians speaking in tongues glossolalia is the greek word they give a new meaning to that and then the meaning why was it called a Foursquare Church Aimee Semple McPherson in 1923 when she started her denomination Foursquare because when you read the big beginning of Ezekiel there are these four things in a vision that represent God these four and it represents the fullness of God so four is fullness the Foursquare represents the fullness of God hence the Foursquare or the fullness gospel it's called good question with that I got too close god bless you all have a great day and come back next week for fundamentalism