the world is not focused day in day out on these stories we don't know how many people are in our countries we don't even have numbers we round to the nearest million on illegals Millions we've vastly underestimated our appeal and the number of people who want to come here and if we don't have a sensible policy about this this century is going to be a real problem I want to ask you a question pleas do you think your establishment I don't think I'm establishment I'll explain to you why I don't think I'm establishment I'm losing contract they're playing games they're making my life a living K and I'm still not cing at them the benefit of the migration largely occurs to the migrant not to the society it's not hard to pull up data and say this is what we're willing to receive well it actually is hard to pull up data because nobody collects that data if I was to pull up right now you're not allowed to collect that data in most countries logically none of this makes sense America is the most important country in the world if Trump gets elected what do you think happens with those two Wars he has a clever strategy on this today on the pbd podcast I'm excited to sit down with Douglas Murray a renowned British author and political commentator best known for his research into the biggest issues facing western civilization and we talked riots in the UK Europe's immigration crisis and the rise of anti-Semitism and also debated whether the establishment really exists things got really intense this is an episode you won't want to miss so let's get right into itct know me why would you bet on Goliath when we got bet DAV value taming giving values contagious this world are entrepreneurs we G no value to haters D run homie look what I become I'm I'm the one all right so today we have with us uh Douglas Murray New York Times bestseller he wrote a book called war on the west he's written many other books that have done very very well that a lot of people uh uh talk about they say this is the gold standard for you know XYZ topic but then also at the same time you know my guest today for whatever reason pisses off guys like Malcolm Gladwell I me I can't give you a lot of names that they they just get upset when they're around him I don't know why we'll cover a lot of issues you know we were preparing for the issues right before we got on and he doesn't want to talk basketball I'm disappointed doesn't want to talk hockey nor does he want to talk B gaming but maybe a little bit about UK Israel you you know us I Wasing I was hoping we' do some Cricket yeah we may do Cricket that's when I'll walk out I say down nothing about it but no it's great to have you here man we've been trying to do this for a while I'm glad we finally able to do it uh and you know most people who watch you they obviously know who you are and what you stand for but I want to get right into it there's an article that came out uh you said riots in Britain should be a warning to the us and this is about a month ago August 8th and you were you were talking about in one of the interviews when you gave a stat and I thought it was absolutely appalling you said since 2008 of the jobs created by the British government since ' 08 74% have gone to people not born into Britain right in Britain so one why is this a warning to us and how did Britain get here it's a very good question the the issue of um that I touched on there there were these riots recently in Britain which I um y i' predicted for many many years would happen um one of the reasons they happen there are lots of reasons one is that Britain like America has lost control of its borders and uh on top of that legal migration in the UK is at a historic High legal net migration you just to give some historic context in the 1990s legal net migration per year was in the tens of thousands um when the conservative government left office earli this year it was at 3/4 of a million now that's net migration legal legal okay um plus tens of thousands of people coming illegally on boats and through other means um possibly in the hundreds of thousands that one as well the I mean I've written about this a lot in the past I wrote in my book The Strange death of Europe in 2017 about the the integration challenges the the the cultural challenges that come when you have migration at this kind of speed um but what you mentioned there piece I wrote In The Spectator and also in the New York Post about that was um people tend to find that the easiest bit to talk about in a way is the illegal migration but what I was showing in that piece was that even if you take the legal migration in a country like Britain which is very similar to all other Western European countries you get this situation where it's got a benefit that's very clear to the government because the migrants of course do add they add financially but not in the ways that everybody thinks so in this particular case The Government Can Say we've added X number of jobs into the workforce but what they don't say is most of them have gone to people who were not born here it's and and my view is it kind of breaks one of the pacts between the electorate and the elected which is that the electorate vote generally for something they think will make their lives better they don't vote for something to make the lives of people who don't yet live in the country better and so one of the points I've made for many years about this is if you if you grow the pie but you give the pie to people who haven't been there for the baking as it were you break part of The Pact and the British electorate are pretty mad about this subject and some of them as they showed last month very mad indeed about it um I think that's a perfectly it's it's a problem that's perfectly possible to deal with there's no reason why a country like Britain or America cannot have a migration an immigration system that brings in you know talented people who are not going to be any kind of burden on the welfare state and For Whom the benefit of their migration doesn't just acre to them and that's one of the other things in this area that's very important is is that the benefit of the migration largely occurs to the migrant not to the society in terms of the of of the finance the benefit of is more towards a migrant than the society so meaning people coming in are winning more than the people that have been loyal to that country all these years so how does that logically make any sense how does that logically make any sense to you know uh uh not treat your kids as good as you treat you know someone else's I mean you have to treat everybody equally but it's your kids it's your community it's your people someone has to be sold that ideologically to to see yeah that's the right thing we're doing uh I don't think they do actually I think you can fall into it from habit um there are lots of things that can make you feel better in the short term as people that are just not good for us but they can make you feel better if if if you laced my coffee with cocaine or MDMA I I would feel better but it wouldn't be good for me well I wouldn't drink it if I were you because that's what they told me they were doing that to make you fired up so just be careful with that it was a little bit so it shouldn't be too much of it um but lots of things in the short term could make you feel better but are not good for you long term Mass migration like that can make you feel better in the short term as I say it does grow the pie a little bit it's just that people don't get a share in it and um the problem with the migration question this is a problem that that the Republicans will have to deal with here if they win in November um is that none of the answers to this are easy I mean again it's it's it's like a drug it's it's very easy to get into and quite hard to get off in fact very hard to get off take things like uh in Italy it's a country I know pretty well uh they had several years ago an election in which the main conservative running said that he was going to deport the 1 million illegals which was estimated there were in Italy I was never clear even if he won the election how he could do that how on Earth do you Deport a million people let alone 11 to 20 million in the US right and I have not I I have asked politicians in this country exactly the same question how exactly do you do that I mean government in America like everywhere is is not that great at doing a lot of things how on Earth would you pull something like that off my point is is that when it comes to the issue of migration what actually happens is it's just so hard to fix after you've opened the door but basically nobody does I don't yet know of a western country that has lost control of its immigration like America has or like Britain has that has any idea of how to correct it and I'm not I'm not against immigration per se I think I'm I I believe that a society should have a s immigration policy allow talented people in allow a certain number of people in for humanitarian reasons uh in in exceptional circumstances this this benefits the society but it doesn't benefit it if instead of being a sort of trickle of a tributary into the society as a whole it's a flood uh which you then can't do anything about I I the reason I I I haven't written about this that much since the strange death of Europe one reason was that I had said almost everything I could say about it by in terms of warning and although a lot of politicians in America and Europe read the book um I was under the impression that they didn't know what to do about it one politician said to me um in on the continent in Europe this is a very depressing book for me to read I said you should have tried writing it um these These are really big problems in the 21st century and and as you know they're made particularly big not just by the inability of Western leaders to do anything about it but by the fact that you know 50 years ago it was hard to get to America from Venezuela uh 50 years ago it was hard to get to Europe from subsaharan Africa today travel is cheaper and easier than it's ever been and everybody knows how other people in the world are living I mean that's one of the things that these devices we all have we've underestimated everywhere I go in the world you know you you me the poorest Township in South Africa everyone's got advice in their hands and they can see what life could be like and even if it's a life that we might not regard as being great ourselves it's it's a lot better than a lot of the world so I think in general the liberal democracies the capitalist countries vastly underestimated our appeal and the number of people who want to come here and if we don't have a sensible policy about this this century is going to be a real problem well let me let me ask this question this the part that's kind of a confusing to me because in in uh um when you're recruiting people to a company the way you filter them out is either by a degree right and you'll say okay let me see what level of Education you got I went to Harvard all right I went to UC Berkeley ah I don't know if I'm want to touch Berkeley right now I went to Stanford I went to Penn I went to Duke I went to USC I went to UCLA okay you did a four-year program yeah I got my MBA where' you get your MBA from I got it from Michigan I got it from you know pen you filter based on who you think is going to be most productive for your company and you offer the benefits and you welcome them in right if you are interviewing somebody for CFO you're going to discriminate against somebody that doesn't have a college degree doesn't have a high school degree yeah you don't care what skin color that person is you don't care what their religion is you care the fact that this person is not the most qualified person to be a CFO of a company right and I'm willing to pay you $250,000 a year for the CFO job you know whatever it is if you're experienced but you don't have it no one's offended it's very much a you know good we have no issues with that right I may say so Douglas you're applying to be the CTO of our company yes what makes you think you're qualified to be the CTO why was a former CTO at Uber how long were you there 6 years wow that may overcome even where you got your college for degree from because why would Uber keep you for six years so you can still hire Based on data background all of that right absolutely why should countries not apply the same method of research background standards to bring the best people to their country why wouldn't they use that same logic because it doesn't work at scale that's my view I mean it should it should be able to work but it doesn't at the moment um the work you would put in to research somebody for a major position in your company is simply not the work that any government can do about the number of people coming into a country like America at the moment um most people think the size of the state is a little bloated at the moment can you imagine how much bigger the state would have to be to do that kind of background research on everyone walking across the southern border I don't think you could do it so okay so one you were saying as bandwidth okay fine but let me ask you this could I not with all the data that I have statist statistics that I have for example I had Dominic tar jinsky here three weeks ago okay and I don't know if you know who he is he's with the EU Parliament two two term and he's with the Polish Poland Parliament two terms that's who he is maybe you recognize the face yeah yeah of course he's in law and J yes he is and we sat there we spoke he's from Poland and he comes in and he's the guy that once he was being interviewed he says we will not let one not one yeah it was it was with Kathy Newman yes it was it was with Kathy Newman she says a lot of people call you racist right they call you racist for XYZ Rob I don't know if you have the clip the audience doesn't know which one it is I'm sure you know which one it is you know he says I'm not going to let not one person in not one person can come in here right okay great and and he's sitting here I said so tell me statistics about Poland and he says lowest unemployment rate out of all the EU countries 27 lowest in crime lowest in rape and lowest Muslim population okay out of everybody and this is the clip if you want to play so the audience can know which one we're talking about go ahead Rob how many refugees has Poland taken zero and you're proud of that if you are asking me if you if you are asking me about Muslim uh Muslims illegal immigration none not even one will come to Poland not even one if it's illegal we we took over 2 million ukrainians who are working who are peaceful in Poland we will not receive even one Muslim because this is what we promised but I asked not about illegal immigrants I asked about refugees and Jean CLA you yunker the commission President says that you're racist you sound proud of the fact that you haven't taken any refugees of course because this is what our people expecting from our government that's number one this is why our government was elected but this is why Poland is so safe this is the the the reason why we had not even uh one terrorist attack look at the streets in Poland and we can be called populists nationalists racists I don't care I care about my family and about my country so you you watch that right so a country can say statistically from what region gives me the least least amount of crime yeah any country can pull up data and say okay Muslims that come from XYZ country they're civil they're great we'll welcome them Muslims that come from here no that our most crime comes from here Christians from this place Jews from this place this from this place Buddhist from this place it's not hard to pull up data and say this is what we're willing to receive well it actually is hard to pull up data because nobody collects that data if I was to pull up right now you're not allowed to collect that data in most countries why in the US we can you're saying in Europe most countries you can most countries you're not allowed why is that consider discrimination the facts would be what Kathy Newman would call racist I mean for instance I was in Poland um probably last about 18 months ago and uh they've had a huge influx of course of ukrainians um Ukrainian women primarily uh since the beginning of the the war um now I can't remember how how many it is it's more than a million 2 million I think uh that's a lot of people for relatively small well relatively small by American stands country like Poland to deal with how is it not led to I don't know suicide bombings outbreaks of r% so on so forth because Ukraine to Poland is not that big of a leap in cultural terms um and the Polish are you know happy to relatively happy to welcome in their neighbors in this distress because they are their neighbors and they the polls know that this could happen to them and they'd hope that if this happened to them their neighbors would help them that's quite different to say Sweden taking in large numbers of people from Somalia because we know that I mean Somalia which has had terrible terrible Civil Wars and violence for many years now and this is not the fault of the people in that bited country but it's inevitable that if a large number of people from Somalia particular Young men land in your country they will bring a certain level of violence which the Ukrainian women moving into Poland will not bring now that's common sense but it's also it's also difficult um and and the the desire as um Kathy Newman uh shows there to Simply say well that's racist well the facts are racist is overwhelming and at the moment that still works in terms of shutting down any of this any of this discussion I mean I always say there are three things with only three things with immigration that really matter um speed numbers and identity speed numbers and identity you can integrate you can integrate large numbers of people relatively fast if the identity is pretty close you can integrate a small number of people with a very different identity if it's a small number and the speed is slow if you do fast large numbers with a very different identity you've got not got a hope of integrating you just not got to Hope why would they they can live in communities with other people who are like them and uh they they don't need to be a part of your society and if you have no no punishment as it were for for not integrating then yeah there's no incentive and and one other thing so remember what we're dealing with in the 21st CES a lot of people leaving very bited countries where the standard of living is just horrific by our standards where and when they come into societies like like this one Western Societies in general you know even you know particular with welfare state you can have a much better standard of living than you could dream of in the country you've been from you've come from we don't know what to do about that we just don't know what to do about it we America in particular but West and Europe as well is is too attractive of course it's too attractive I mean but that doesn't mean she's for everyone right you know a woman can be too attractive but that doesn't mean she needs to have 50 husbands you know what I'm saying a uh a a building can be too attractive but you know only one family gets to buy it and live in it you know so we we can we can do that part and allow certain people to come in but again the background goes to finding a way to identify a pattern of what what produces kind of like back in the days you know how they used to say you know kids who used to come to college in Us in the 80s or the '90s they would stay mhm then it flipped they used to come here come to college and then go back home why are they leaving after we educated and with our system why are we letting these guys go let's find a way to keep them here right so retention went down well who do we want to keep if we just educated you why are we giving you back to your country well of course if the person is is paid their way in it then you can argue uh that a lot of the University education system in the west is sort of money-making scheme there are a lot of universities that just make money from foreign students charge them Absolute top whack and they didn't care so how do how do you solve this how do you solve this I mean in in uh Europe you're saying you can't get the data right when I'm looking at some of the numbers Rob if you want to pull up like uh you know even with Tommy Robinson he's talking about what's going on in UK walking around getting into fights left and right I typed in Europe's largest Muslim population pure research okay and let me see what year this is so this is I think this is as recent oh this is super old Rob type in type in uh Europe's Muslim population what it looks like see if we have one from 20 24 on what the largest you wouldn't have accurate data for 2024 but what's the most recent one you'll get accurate is it the 2015 one from peer research or well if you if you take well there's one I'd like to see how you break that one down 50.3 like where it's at um take the UK sentences that happens every 10 years the last one um was eak out bit by bit because um uh the authorities were rather worried that the public would um leap to certain conclusions about the data so the data had to be um Rob I just send it to you Rob if you can pull that up so this one I see this is from 2015 okay so we're talking 9 years ago because if you're saying every de and this is this is at the start this is at the start of the migration crisis I wrote about in strange death of Europe yeah so this one number one Germany was number one 4.76 million if you want to zoom in France is second 4.71 UK third 2.96 this is pre-brexit Italy 2.2 Bulgaria 1 million Netherlands Spain Belgium Greece Austria right that are coming in you know if if you see the numbers is there a pattern I guess you wouldn't be able to pull that off if you can't specify is there a pattern of of trying to see any kind of trend or data of what what types of migrants coming in are creating a positive net positive valuation to no nobody wants to do that why wouldn't you want to do that because then you might get some results you don't want I mean for instance why don't we have crime stats for Germany for instance which is one of the countries that taken the largest number of migrants in the last decade there's no crime stats for Germany you can't break them down by demographic who thinks that's a good idea do it for France that's a really interesting one crime St France okay by demo is what you're asking yeah can you see if you can find that Rob number of violent crime offenses in France 2016 to 2023 okay damn so it shows the growth but it doesn't show Rob I have it from statista I just sent you the link if you can pull that up and you'll notice a a good amount of climb Almost 100% in the last eight years mhm okay if you have that right there Rob that's what it's shown mhm to 2023 something happened what did happen well we don't know because we don't have the facts are you trying to tell me that no one on the conservative side has the brass or the ability to get in there and find ways to get the data not even independently research organization it's extremely hard to do I mean there are there are groups I me migration watch in the UK has tried to do some of it you can't collect it's very hard to collect crime stats particularly when as in most countries on the continent the identities of the um of the accused are kind of hidden from the public there's a t there's a trend in uh in the reporting for instance in Germany of any crime that you don't give the name of the person you do um first name and then letter same thing in the Netherlands now of course you can tell a certain amount quite from the first name by the way this is well well let's just Ling on this for second um there is a reason for this it's my point there's a reason why you can't drill down into this look at um if you I don't know if you want to do one that's been very controversial and um very obvious in recent years which is the increase in rapes in Sweden uh this is an enormously toxic issue um number there you go uh number increased 21 uh increased 20 went up for from 16,000 to 24,000 um by this is in an area which people should really care about I mean like rape stats is something that is very important to collect properly it's one of the most underreported crimes a lot of women don't feel able to come forward you should have a society in which people are willing to come forward and you should have a society in which when an increase in rape happens or sexual assault the society worries about it because something's going wrong for instance if it's that the men who are already in the society are suddenly really getting into raping you would want to find out what was causing them to do that but it's possible that that's not the explanation but you can't really know because we don't have data it won't be collected and it probably never will be who in the right mind think that's a good idea to not pull up data that's one second why aren't the guys on the opposite side doing their part to pull up you know uh uh we don't know how many people are in our countries we don't even have numbers we round to the nearest million on illegals in relatively small countries Millions we round to millions in countries about illegals never mind on illegals the the the best uh most reliable data you can get on I think any Western Country on this is the census that happens every 10 years in the UK even that uh is not that easy to trust because it's massively Under reporting people in very high density immigrant areas who I do not believe in their entirety respond to the form from the US data authorities the UK data authorities that comes every 10 years um I'm pointing out that this is just information we don't have and when you say well why wouldn't we have that data I'm saying because the data could be dangerous it could be dangerous for the society it would be um it would be used by some bad people for sure in a bad way there would definitely be bigots and racists and pot stirrers who would you know as with all dangerous things pick it up and run with it you might also say it's the right of the public to know but uh my view is that for a long time the viewers being the public can't be trusted with the facts so don't give them the facts public cannot be trusted with the facts if they don't give them the facts the public cannot be trusted with the facts so don't give them the facts why if you give it to them what do they do with it they make argument they they kind of expose the LI we don't know they could do anything I mean we've made I made this point after the recent riots in Britain I said when you have mass legal and illegal migration at this speed and at this rate and with people from such a different identity one of the things you do is you move a very what was a very high trust Society into a very low trust Society okay and that can happen from stats like this or it can simply happen on who do you give a pound to when they're begging on the streets so if I look at this here number of illegal Crossings between border crossings this the one I just sent in the EU from 9 2009 to 2022 mhm you'll see that mhm you know where the 1.8 million in 2015 yeah by the way which was vastly undercounted 2015 I was touring around all the places that the migrants were coming in and the camps and uh refugee camps in southern Europe and I the Greek Islands and the Italian Islands south of Italy and so on I followed all this firsthand I saw it all I saw the boats all coming in and uh the authorities greeted the boats and helped them in and um it was partly I mean there was partly a humanitarian catastrophe of course coming from the Syrian Civil War but um the beginning it was we should allow in Syrian refugees which there's an argument for for sure but very soon as I saw with my own eyes people were coming from all over Africa the Middle East the Far East I met people who's uh who were from uh Asia who you know from relatively well off backgrounds but they saw that the borders were open and so they they came and of course there's still in Europe none of them were been removed okay let me ask you a crazy question so who has more power and influence UK or the entire uh Jewish Community well the entire Jewish community in the UK no worldwide worldwide well in the British government thought I mean if you take out the Israeli government cuz they've gotten all the benefits of a state but uh sure I mean the British government is a okay who is fifth largest economy in the world so so Brit so fifth largest economy in the world so they so who who okay because this is where it kind of takes me you know how um in the Middle East Iran had you know the Sha Sha Iran and they used to call the puppet of the West right until they realized he's a big boy now he's no longer a puppet mhm you can't control him and he became his own man then when he did they found a way to get a guy who was living in France when you say they found a guy whoever The Establishment may be whether it's us UK they found a guy that is living in France kii goes to Iran the Sha Falls sure Iran's been a mess for 45 years since the fall that was that wasn't Britain in France or that wasn't America in France that did that I wouldn't I didn't say no he lived in France he lived in France and very very unwisely the French authorities allowed him to fly to um tan that by the way is one of the flights I most wish had never taken off yeah you and I both but where I'm going with it is was did that happen intentionally because they were getting too scared of Iran becoming too powerful and they wanted to kind of uh you know cause a fall and this was their way of saying here you go kind of like um go to Russia right the argument that that uh is made where uh when the Zar Nicholas II he's in Russia he has the power generation family can't be controlled you can't tell him what to do he wasn't a puppet of anybody but then hey maybe Lenin could be a puppet so let's bring the Bolshevik and some of the arguments that are made what who makes that argument but hear me out with the argument I'm making here for you this is where I'm trying to go with this who in the right mind think this is a good argument to have this happen to EU who would allow so many migrants coming into EU for it to lose its identity on what RoR skill on what argument is that a good idea like even even the financial guys the money guys Wall Street a lot of times you say who has the most power in the world right well it's really you know billionaires okay it's really the virtual governments okay it's really the presidents presidents all right maybe but let's go to the guys that have the money who everybody criticizes that gets to buy people go to the people of money why would they let this happen to you well first of all um I think we might have a disagreement of the history of uh um the Sha's fall and of indeed the Roman office fall uh I don't think anyone orchestrated that as it were revolutions happen uh just like I said I wish that the plane had not you don't think anybody was follow no no hang on um just as uh I said I wish the plane had not taken off from Paris with her on it and landed safely I wish that the the train had not left the Finland station uh carrying Lenin um it was a very big mistake to allow Lenin obviously to get back uh to Russia uh a historic mistake I mean there is always a simple uh explanation of History which is that somebody is guiding it and that is and I don't generally speaking I don't believe that I just as a historian having written about very complicated events in the past my observation is you know would that there were a guiding hand that was able to do everything but that there isn't if fact I don't want there to be but there just isn't there is no one force that's capable of doing something like that um the romanovs had problems that have been growing for two centuries at least um the Sha had problems have been growing for decades and then they meet the Revolutionary force of somebody as evil as Lenin or HH and as you know I mean both of these men were I mean they were death forces but they were they were forces of nature a extraordinary evil men but they had followings and they could get people to follow them and they could do these terrible things and turn over a whole country and a civilization they were able to do that I don't think that happened because of anyone in Washington DC or I mean really yeah I don't I mean I mean there's of course there's always an argument about mosc earlier on um but no I mean I think it's consoling to people I think I think there's a consolation to to thinking that when these things happen they happen because somebody always in the west by the way orchestrated that to happen I think it's a thing of consolation for instance if the Western countries wanted um endless uh access to Iranian oil supplies wasn't a good idea to let ranian um if uh people thought that the romanovs were a problem who on Earth would have thought the Bolsheviks were the solution Churchill famously said that this was like allowing a bassilus to be released in the society um but going back to what you ask about Europe um again I mean when you say where power resides I mean power resides in lots of different places and it it oscillates sometimes a parliament for instance has a lot of power sometimes a single member of parliament has a lot of power sometimes they don't sometimes the parliament doesn't have power sometimes like in the age of social media social media has power and overtakes the power of politicians and politicians have to cower from the social media at other times it's the other way around social media companies can be uh very vulnerable to legislation from government so there's never a fixed I don't think there fix a naive way of thinking well uh obviously I don't think my own way of thinking is naive well listen I I I'm having this conversation with you because I'm curious to know how you process this part because logically none of this makes sense uh let me go back to when you're saying do you believe there's such a thing as an establishment a non you anti-establishment do you believe there's such a thing as you know the groups of people of money and power behind closed doors that you know are the Puppet Masters who feel they can control and influence elections societies countries Wars I think I think it's a low resolution way of thinking very low unpack that for me um I think that again it comes down to the nature of the world being extremely complex always much more complex in this era where we get insight into things we would never have got insight into before the ability of on our devices to find out information we would never have been allowed to find out before and to hear opinions we could never have heard before um there is in my view a uh Temptation there many Temptations in this era but one of them is to see um specific guiding hands in certain places because it is a consolation to us to help us through what otherwise looks like something too close to chaos mhm so let me take one of the words you use establishment do I believe there is an establishment no there are lots of establishments Lots there are Financial establishments for sure there are political establishments for sure there's a Democrat establishment there's a republican establishment there are different establishments within each of these the idea but just when you say an establishment I want to like which one what who are we talking about do we think that do we think that Donald Trump and Bill Clinton get together with Bill Gates and agree on anything no no I don't think that's the community uh but but you think about in a in a company take a 50 billion Auto Company right you could be a director in doing the work and you're doing your part then you can have VPS that are newer VPS that have come they're hungry they're doing their things right then you got SE sweet Executives that I've been with the company for 28 years quite frankly they don't want to freaking work anymore I mean I work with a company called called AIG and I did business with them for many years great experience loved it but the more and more I got it the more I realized there was an establishment SE Suite Executives that didn't want to work as hard as the others but they had been around so much and they knew the dead bodies everywhere that they knew how to control some people to scare the out of them to say hey man if you talk about that to anybody you're going to hurt me and because of that I'm going to make sure you you XYZ said about you and and the the establishment of Executives in a company much smaller have a lot of control for that company to expand so you'll see a lot of big companies getting smaller because of the establishment SE sues at the top who have been around for 30 years that no longer want the startups to grow they no longer want to hear about the about dreams and what if one day and what if one day and imagine one day and I want to move up to Corporal ladder I'm going to one day be the CTO the coo oh be quiet already dude let me just freaking go golf three days week that is the establishment of a company filled with Executives that can prevent this company from growing this is why new companies come out startups and they destroyed the establishment because the established seite Executives that's what I mean as the establishment in a smaller scale but that sea Suite establishment yeah could there two I mean many ways to look at it but um there are at least two ways to to see it which is one maybe that seite establishment does exist and it does in lots of companies it can mhm and also maybe they're very vulnerable and I can think of lots of cases where the people who as you say us basically checked out are very vulnerable they may know where um the bodies are bu bodies and so on but that doesn't that doesn't um make that doesn't protect you for all time or they're they're they're at the top of the top of the sea site in their company but then the whole company is eaten by somebody else who comes along I mean you must have seen that plent of times as well course but but that happens because of the establishment so that's one the point I'm trying to make to you is for example in Congress okay okay we don't have term limits in America new guy comes out he says I'm going to be a congressman and I going to make some change and he goes in oh that guy just scared the crap out of me I don't care I'm going to stand up to him and her Nancy doesn't scare me Chuck doesn't scare me McConnell doesn't scare me oh my God I just lost and I didn't get reelected hey I'm so sorry you know can yeah again can happen and the opposite can happen it does happen though it's not it's not about it can happen it does happen Okay let's say does do that control so all I'm saying is where I'm going with this is the following do some people in The Establishment okay don't like this use of the word the EST well I'll use it you can you can use a different word for it I'll use it do some people who are the um establishments who are do using their tenure for being around and they know where the bodies buried can they sometimes make some decisions that they think is the right decision that end up destroying what they once build or what they once help grow can they negatively impact a society a country a company before I Hon I want to ask you a question pleas do you think you're establishment I don't think I'm establishment I'll explain to you why I don't think I'm establishment I'll give you my who I was my background I know your background I just say I'm think but where you are now why why aren't you why aren't you establishment I'm not at all part of the establishment I don't take money from anybody I don't take sponsorship I don't have to now hear me out hear me out so I got a call from a guy so and I won't give the name but you you'd know who this guy is maybe you would know who this guy is in the in the game of Agents managers Representatives mhm he's at the top okay so Hey listen um if there is ever an interest in wanting to have us represent in the sale or in the partnership of the podcast being with XYZ company to get 100 million here a couple hundred million here whatever it is you got to kind of be careful to not have those types of guests on anymore I got this call I'm just telling you I got this call here's how the call went I said here's the difference I'm a self-made guy MH I made my own money I came up had a 1.8 GPA I don't have a four-year I don't have a two-year I'm an army guy I love numbers I'm very good with numbers and I love people I got into Financial Services somehow some way in the insurance industry they couldn't stand me because I was not a golfer I'm in I'm in insurance industry I've Golf 18 holes in my life maybe five times I Can't Stand golf I'm not that guyy to agreement on okay I'm not that guy I don't have the patience for golf so I will caddy for you and we can have a nice cigar but I'm not going to sit there and golf with you that's not me so nothing about my profile of being in the financial industry was the ideal guy then there is disruption then we have market share then we grow now we have enemies behind closed doors I'm losing insurance carriers I'm losing contract they're playing games the guys that have been around for 30 years who have a nice sweet little business don't like a guy like me coming in they're making my life a living K and I'm still not caving at them and then eventually we sold the business and then I came to start my own company now here media Consulting all the stuff that we're doing yesterday we had an event Palm Beach Convention Center we had nearly 6,000 people in the room we had Dwayne The Rock Johnson there people showing up from 100 plus countries Executives Founders private Equity guys VCS and they're coming in and we're not sitting there saying hey I owe this guy better do this or else that guy this guy I don't I don't do well with that so all I'm saying is you ask me the question I'm giving you the establishment side I sit there and I think about who the hell even with the people that have the money the only way this could be happening is because somebody's allowing for this to happen somebody at the top has be allowing for this to happen because they think it may be a good idea or there's a deceptive idea reasoning behind it okay let me first of all just say again when it comes to your own example I can imagine somebody as with me accusing you of being part of an establishment an establishment yeah that's what I'm saying the establishment because what I'm saying is I don't think that that there is the establishment I think there is in a country I think there are establishments and I know by the way what people say about is oh my God he's covering up for the establishment just don't as I say I think that there are different establishments and different Gatekeepers in different Industries and you just described your experience with one but it'd be perfectly possible if I was a guy who was down on his lock somewhere in the US and I wasn't on the ladder yet and I wasn't doing so well I might well look at your CV and think he's part of the establishment or an establishment at least an establishment is different than the establishment but again somebody could easily say end up pushing you that way my point is I just don't think I don't think that the the parameters on this teach me English you're right if you're go on the English route to say here's the I'm going the logic route no it's not the logic route where I'm going with it is different than the exact definition yes this is our building this is our establishment it is yes this is our restaurant it's my establishment yes this is our Comedy Club it's our establishment yes the but the establishment is behind closed doors a grou but I'm saying you have power of some if we're going to play that game then you have power no not at that level though you're talking well of course there are different levels of power and different levels of influence what I'm saying is that and you gave the example pre-revolution Iran pre-revolutionary Russia the Roman ofs seem to have all the power they were the establishment turned out it didn't do them any good you don't think us Kissinger UK MI6 CIA had a role in causing the Sha to fall and not help not send help when he needed it when the revolution is happening when Kissinger promised him he would you don't think anybody played a role in causing the fall we can we can get into the I mean the the the look I I I think that you you will probably know your history of 79 better than me although you were also not um how old were you in 79 I was born in 7 but I was born in I Liv there 11 years 10 and a half years yeah um and of course in Iran Iran is of course one of the countries in the world that if you're British is most flattering because the Iranians still think the British run the world it's very nice very nice for well you did for for many years you had British Petroleum you had the oil the whole contract yeah um but there is and there's always been a lot of um uh belief in the sort of Hidden Hand of the power of the Brits to this day there a lot of the Iranian press still suggests that America is only doing what Britain tells it to do again deeply flattering to anyone who's British but not true uh I don't think that I don't I say what I'm trying to get to is no I do not think there is an establishment in the west that is capable of doing the things that you suggest who is capable of causing Mayhem which establish is capable of causing Mayhem in EU that is not just this whole thing happened accidentally again I I I just resist a sort of low resolution analysis of what is a very complex and potentially lethal problem um I would love it if it was the case and I've had so many people who've tried to argue this to me since strange death came out I'd love it if it was a case that there was a document from the establishment in the EU that explained its border policies in the last 60 years let's say there just isn't I'll tell you what I think has happened very very straightforward human explanation the borders started to open after the second world war they invited in what were called guest workers the Gast program in Germany mainly people from Turkey they um asked them in invited them in because there was a need to reconstruct Europe after the war there was an assumption Angela Merkel herself said this in 2010 there was an assumption that the migrants would go home after they' arrived there was every mistake possible was made but and in retrospect we just say how the hell did they make this mistake I mean who could have guessed that a Turkish man moving to Hamburg Berlin might want to meet a nice woman and if he met a nice woman might want to have nice children and if he had nice children might might want a nice house and a nice Sal and so on and might not want to go back to Turkey that's one of the better countries that that people enter Europe from uh they didn't see it coming they didn't predict that and they slowly as the decades went on lost control and every single time as a famous politician in the UK said every single time somebody inherited office they saw all of these problems they inherit and they could see the problem was getting worse and worse and worse and they knew that they were less and less capable of dealing with it and they knew that they should leave it for their successes because this was too difficult to deal with today now tell me that when we come to the case of the US something similar isn't happening what has been the story of illegal migration in recent decades always always the push to say look we're not going to be and this is from Reagan and this is from everyone the the dreamers why was this framed as the because always it is look we've lost control of the Border millions of people have come in illegally nobody has controlled it it wasn't that Dr Kissinger or Hillary Clinton or anyone else wanted this to be the case although there are some politicians I should say who do like the idea of utter chaos and we can come back to that if you want but every single time it was these people are in our country already what do you want to do keep them in the black market keep them working illegally keep them in this shadow Shadow economy or should we just say every say 10 years amnesty it's so much easier to do the latter if if we were sitting here and uh we were talking about am you say why not get these people into the the legal job market and why not let's get them paying taxes and the easiest thing in the world is to say you know that makes sense yeah let's get them into the economy of course the harder one the restrictionist argument is every time you do the am NY you give the thumbs up to another x million people to cross the southern border look it's just easier for them it is much easier for them than to go back to the example I gave from Italy putting a million people on buses and trains and sending them back to North Africa and from North Africa to every country they've come from this is just this is just so much bigger than the idea that there's somebody who wants it to happen and that's why it happened okay so you you wrote a book titled The Madness of crowds right you got gender R race and identity we may defer here but that's the part of conversation there's the risk of me being wrong you know you have you being right and vice versa or neither one of us being either one of them and audience is there and agrees with you or with me who who do you think is more influential the loud screaming crying complaining crowd the mob or in my case you're not going to like this word but I'm going to use the word and you can you know Define it any way you want and you can say it's an elementary but a powerful minority of folks who are working behind closed doors to keep control and influence around the world meaning you got two guys right say you're a governor you're a speaker of the house you're a senator you're president what's more scary for you is it 10,000 of us Mar ing in the street saying he is you're the worst leader you're an anti you're an Islam of your this you a horrible human being this guy doesn't deserve to be an office does that have more power or the guy from the top and says hey Douglas here's what we need you to do tomorrow you're going to get in front of the crowd you're going to do this you're going to do that or else you're not going to get funded for your reelection nothing's going to happen to you who do you think has more power it would depend absolutely each time and always on the circumstance absolutely each and every time look the the sometimes the crowd breaks through sometimes it fails to break through sometimes if there is anyone in the position you describe sometimes there are people who have power sometimes you can you know one of the interesting things we've learned in America in recent years is you know sometimes you can pull a leave and it turns out nothing happens there are lots of situations where the person who is assumed to have power feels effectively powerless I I mean one of the reasons I not a as I say low resolution there is a explanation for everything there's always a person or a document or and so on or a secret tape is because my experience of watching uh politicians and others in many countries is I'm always struck by the extent to which they feel incapable of doing things because there are things in the system and again left and right you see the same thing things in the system that just don't work things that are broken things that are meant to do one thing and do another um but when you get to the points as you say where the where the where the crowd can break through who knows we have lived in recent years through several big things in America where the crowd got damn close to breaking through and sometimes did look at what what what happened in the summer of 2020 when Nancy Pelosi Chuck Schumer and everyone else at the top of the Democrat party is on their knees wearing some Native American Shaws staying on their knees for 9 minutes or whatever because it's the same amount of time as George Floyd's death and they all have to be like winched up afterwards because Nancy's knees locked and chuck couldn't couldn't get back up I mean like what what were they doing there now these are people that we would say this is an establishment this is an establishment no I just say this is an establish this is a part of the gerontocracy of the Democrat Party okay but what were they doing there they were literally kneeling to the crowd they were saying we we think the crowd is getting kind of close to our our home and so we are going to literally kneel to them these people at this point clearly felt incredibly fragile like wildly fragile they knew that there was a kind of revolutionary thing happening in America you had some cities burning down you had uh people being attacked all over the place Law and Order broke down in many cities so that's that's an establishment at a moment of real worry I think that happens much more often than than people think when they were the crowd wins were the were the the mob wins both the the the both sides are has more power maybe you don't have you the point is you you can't as I say it's all to do with specific circumstances when riots broke out the other week in the UK okay the authorities lost control of the streets in certain Towns now here's the thing they lost control some of the public was so angry because of these three girls killed at a Taylor Swift dance party that they just went out and started just like I mean why why burn down a police fan for God's sake yeah why burn down a police station because the crowd was doing stupid and awful things that crowds and mobs can sometimes do but here's the thing the authorities at a time like that and there are in that situation there police authorities political authorities and others they want to they start to feel fragile themselves the the Prime Minister will start be thinking oh hell we're losing control of the streets now in that situation are there some moves he can pull yes did he pull them yeah the one he mainly pulled was these people on the streets even the ones who are doing nothing violent and just objecting to somebody being the young girls being stabbed at a Taylor Swift dance party that these people are all far right and that was what starma and the UK government did and an an an establishment an authority in the UK started saying so that that was the move they were able to pull but at that moment it's incredibly fragile every it can go either way we've seen examples in in as I say in American recent years where where the crowd can break through January the six all sorts of things like that where and what happens at a time like that there's people who do one thing then an an accusation could be made by these people there about that and this is much more fragile than people think and as I say the biggest Temptation in our era is to say it's all controlled by something because it would be so much easier to understand if it was yeah well I don't know if it's all the time but for example so one may say okay you know you guys are both being naive let's just say the audience says that which I'm sure you would disagree with but what if somebody says why are you guys thinking so small it's the same the two are the same what do you mean they're the same let me explain the the mob is funded by the people at the top the minority and they Stoke they're like hey piss these guys off blame those guys create a problem identify the enemy and blame him you create the problem that can be him it can be and then comeing and say let me get on my knees for 99 minutes but guess what we did January 6 we know they're coming guys get out the way okay let them do it and then point the fingers and then come in to save right the last if there's anything the last few years uh uh Douglas have uh pres and by the way that's to me with Iran as well the one thing with Iran was in 1954 us UK France I think it's Germany signed a 25-year oil contract with the SHA mhm 1954 you know when that contract came up 79 you know when he fell 79 so so for me and then there's a meeting in you will not be able to persuade me that Henry K I'm not going I don't think I'm going to be able to persuade you there although there's plenty of you know things you can write to see that as well whether you buy into it or not it's a different story but to me it's in that case us could have helped us could have supported if Jimmy goes December 31st Carter and says you know Iran is an island of uh stability a year prior to the revolution happening you go to Iran you do a toast on December 31st out of all the places you have in the world to be you go to Iran 1977 to do a toast and you say Iran's the island of stability that's December and then a year later you say oh we got your back we got your back you get out of the way that's a form of hey guys don't worry about it these guys are about to fall is not going to be able to negotiate as much as we are they're going to be so desperate because their infrastructure is going to be so messy they're going to need money we'll get it at discounted rate why why why why if there is a guiding hand or a guiding group are they so bad at it well because they think they're God and they're not well but if you kept making this number of mistakes you'd stop thinking you were gone are you kidding me you don't think we continue make mistakes man is a a sinner man continues to think they can outo God man continues to think they're smarter than God I mean we're always going to be falling for that trap no one's ever going to find out we're going to do it better than them communism he didn't do it well but we would do it better social we would do it better the right sure that's always the temptation but it's a temptation of thinking we we know better I have four kids right it's like yeah stop it but I'm sharper than you Dad when I was 12 years old oh okay bro go ahead right that's the element that we think we won't get caught by the way a lot of people ask us how the hell do you guys get all this content research AI for your pbd podcast how do you guys pull all this information out we worked the last 12 months and hired 15 machine learning guys and built a news agregator site that we want as a customer we decided to build that and release it to everybody and if you've not seen it it's called VT news. you can track timelines of stories you can find out which stories are lopsided you can find out any story who's reporting it on the left and the right and last but not least it's the only news site today that you can go to the AI and ask questions specific to news and it'll give you the answer back not just picking a few questions that may be the questions you're going to ask any question you want to ask are AI will respond back to you if you haven't gone to it yet go to VT news. or click on bar code here to learn more get registers you can have access to the technology so that's the part where I think you know then the challenge becomes um okay then the challenge becomes like if I ran for office which I never will I'm not born here so I'm not a running for office if I run for office I'm pulling data and I'm looking at the data saying hey who are the best immigrants here that contribute to society the most you can find it in us it's Indians number one yep more than anybody else you can pull up out I don't know who number two is but you know this this M for median household income and everything that's right so you kind of be like listen guys how many does Indians have guess what let's take another 10 million let's take another 3 million let's take another 2 million and let's spread them apart by States because when they come in their kids become engineers they raise their kids stuff let's take Asians let's take this let's take that because your job is to make sure you and then at the same time the one part that they've not been doing I don't know this part i' be curious when I ask you the question actually I'm going to ask you right now the next question is you know we used to have a lot of babies we used to make a lot of babies us is at 1.6 Japan's at7 sex Society Muslim nations they're not at 1.6 they're not at7 you know if this goes the way it's going you don't have a choice you know if you continue well that's one of the explanations for why um Mass legal and IL legal migration is allowed in the western democracies is that is that it is also able to make up the shortfall like that yeah there's a demographic problem in most developed countries and I mean if you speak to the Japanese about this one of the interesting things about it is of course is that they have this terrible replace you know sub you know as you say under 1% two2 to one replacement level um but they have made the decision that they will deal with that shortage in the labor force and the pension payments and else through various means but the means they don't want to do it through is through immig migration they've decided I mean because as they know there's What's called the pyramid in in Immigration where if you are having to bring in more people to pay for the pensions of the people who are you know of pensionable age you then have to bring in more people underneath them to pay for those ones pensions when they go up and before you know it the whole thing has grown all the time it's going eventually collapse and math goes against you I look that's that's my view and I I always you know I always cite um the famous herb Stein's law you know that one things that can not go on won't um sounds like Common Sense yeah except that I've learned in the course of my career the number of times I've thought that things obviously could not go on they just do or they do for a very long time or they do much longer than you'd have expected them to I mean I I think that about European Society I think that about the illegal migration in the US I think that about the welfare system I think that about uh um in I mean just just take the number of people in the US now who are relying on some form of housing New York where I live it's billions of dollars a year being paid to keep illegal migrants in hotels how many years can New York keep housing anyone who's walked across the southern Border in the Watson hotel near Columbus Circle I don't know I'd have thought not very long but I bet you the city authorities and Cathy local and everyone else will try to keep it just as long as they are in office and then they'll hand it over to their successes and at some point the thing goes bust that's how it happens talk Israel so in us something interesting is going on in the US where you know you have this whole October 7th once it happened and you know reaction cannot believe what took place you know conversations you Pierce Morgan a lot of different and it got heated and more heated and more heated and then there was a sect in us that uh you know became not necessarily anti-semitic but hey you know the the division between Israel and this is them and they're causing this it's their fault and you know why are they starting it and back and forth and you're seeing the protesting in the states that's going on in many different colleges and universities that's going on here and I don't know if did you watch the uh the recent podcast uh uh uh what's his name uh Tucker Carlson did with uh what's his name it's a very very good podcast can you zoom in to see what his name is Rob did you watch his show between the two of them oh yeah this is this historian no one's heard of yeah this is the historian you're saying that no one's heard of and if this is the clip Ro matter of fact just play this clip is this the one where he says he's talking about Churchill and Hitler in this one yes this is that play this clip play this clip the reason I resent Churchill so much for it go back a little bit go back a little bit so you can hear it yeah go for it the reason I resent Churchill so much for it is that he kept this war going when he had no way he had no way to go back and fight this war all he had were bombers he was literally by 1940 sending firebomb fleets sending bomber fleets to go firebomb the Black Forest just to burn down sections of the Black Forest just just rank terrorism you know go the reason I if you watch this if you watch this whole thing which I don't know if you have or not okay if you watch it now Tucker I've read the main points okay got it why do you think there's a split not even within the the conservative movement about Israel where some are taking different positions than you would think conservatives would typically be supportive of Israel why do you think that's happening no I think it's the same thing there are splits everywhere I mean um splits on the left splits on the right Democrats who agree with Republicans on certain issues other Republicans would agree across the is different issue I think you know there lots of issues that are not left right uh Israel was never a left right issue particularly never has it's been you know suddenly support for Israel has been a left right consensus in the US in the early years of Israel of course until' 67 and 73 partly because of Soviet um support early on and partly because of kutnik move movement it was seen as a socialist thing all the left supported it um there was a residue of right-wing anti- israelism in in that period that never quite went away but largely disappeared but this is this this I don't know I mean this this guy is on a different strand isn't he but it's it's quite interesting that that that this this um this guy's ended up here I um I found anti- churchism to be a very interesting uh weird diversion well as as I can see this guy's all of his facts are wrong if anyone um wants to read two very very good rebuttal of the things this guy says they should read um the historian Andrew Roberts uh whose book Churchill Walking With Destiny is the best one volume uh biography of Churchill done in recent years and they can also read Victor Davis Hansen's response to the interview Victor Davis Hansen of course author of many great books of History um this guy I mean his timeline was out on absolutely everything was embarrassing he didn't know when Churchill would became prime minister he blamed for things that had happened before Churchill would became prime minister when Chamberlain was still prime minister he made completely erroneous claims about when Churchill was first Lord of the admiralty and what he did made his completely cuckoo Claim about what Churchill did where he wasn't even there in relation with the first world war he uh all of his stuff is off and you've got to so you did watch it you you paid ATT I've read i' I did not watch the whole thing but I read what I did was I read every summary I could of it um look if you look at the 1940s and you decide that Churchills the baddy you're not in a good place the W to restate something that every elementary school kid should know the Second World War started because Hitler invaded Poland and then he started invading Western European countries as well there was no point in this time when ch uh was causing the war it's an astonishing uh um piece of ignorance but it's just it's a revisionist type of History which we have seen before everybody who knows about the second world war period knows there is always some kind of um there's always some revisionist David Irving did in the past always wanted to show that Hitler didn't really mean to do anything he did and it wasn't Hitler that was a bad guy it was just the around him who misled him and and so on this stuff is always around it's it's it's like it's another one of the perennial traps for people to fall into how somebody can end up defaming Church like this is extraordinary to me especially when the Rong all of the all of the major facts and can't even get their timelines right um Britain was in a war of what we call a total war against Nazi Germany which uh would was a war to avert complete Annihilation on both sides this man seems to think as far as I can understand from the the bullet points and summaries I've read of what he's written and what I can see from uh Andrew Roberts and Victor Davis Hanson's very comprehensive rattles he seems to think that the blitz that my grandparents uh lived through was um in London was all um Winston Churchill's fault my grandparents and others would have been very surprised to hear that in the year 2024 people were making that claim I find it kind of Despicable as well as just deeply disingenuous and and just factually as I say as far as I can see factually completely wrong um but I'm interested in why somebody would end up there I wrote in the war on the west about the left's hatred of Churchill and I thought about it a lot because the left in recent years has really been coming for Winston Churchill his reputation everything about him um they accuse him of being responsible the Bengal family in 43 absolutely nothing it's just another complete piece of fabrication of the evidence again it's been dealt with by The Churchill biographers Martin Gilbert Andrew Roberts all the others um but you know now if a young person knows about Churchill in Britain a lot of them will only know about Bengal famine and so on there has been a concerted effort on the left to defame Winston Churchill we know that I mean even with Obama getting into office taking this you know right this is this exactly this is Tucker right but I'm why is this coming from another Direction now I slightly amused by it um you you can make criticisms of Churchill of course and there are criticisms because and you can say that that that for instance the grain that arrived from Australia to Bengal was too slow in 43 but Churchill didn't cause the typhoon that started the famine and you know um it is possible that when you are running um you know the largest Navy in the world and fighting in Africa in Europe the Far East and many other places and you have a entirely mobilized citizen population fighting for their survival that you are likely to drop some balls for sure and is that to be highlighted and mention sure if if you want to you would also assume that standing alone against fascism would count for [Music] something and um why do you think of Tucker Tucker is very I don't I don't want to get into an analysis of Tucker because no no why why is it is it purely for conversation is it P are you familiar with Anthony C Sutton no um he wrote two books Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution Wall Street and the rise of Hitler don't know you've never heard of him that face do you recognize that or no no okay yeah I mean his his claim was uh uh the fact that he Churchill had a choice between you know uh being a Zionist or a Bolshevik and which direction to take he if you've not heard what he has to say he was an interesting guy back in the days he passed away in 2002 he said that Churchill had to choose between Zionism and bism well he's saying the fact that the Wall Street Wall Street had a lot of uh uh uh uh influence over the things that was happening funding they were funding many different things so they were funding you know supporting money on this side supporting money on the other side yeah that book right there Wall Street and the rise of Hitler okay where he's saying a lot of the there's quite a lot of literature on World War II so you forgive me if I don't know that no no it's totally fine I just think about it when when you see a person like uh Tucker interviewing someone like that you know he's given that person permission to give their argu and I'm trying to find out what the reason for that would be I you'd have to ask taker that um I I'm just rather you said that this guy he said that Churchill had to choose between bolshevism and Zionism so again so going back to it so when when remember how earlier we were talking about the the zard Nicholas II and you have lenon and Stalin and all these guys and you know how you know they thought maybe lenon would have been somebody that they could have controlled as a puppet master hey we can help these guys out and then there trying to see like how they who thought that how can they cause a fall where this would be one way of causing a fall in Russia but anyways okay that's if if you've not if you've not looked into it and see his interviews I don't even want to go there because it's going to throw everybody off okay so let me ask you another question here for you um Jews okay Israel sometimes they get you know especially nowadays the power of APAC how much control APAC has how much influence APAC has if APAC wants to get rid of Cory Bush they can't if APAC wants to get rid of a uh uh Douglas you know they can't if they want to get rid of a candidate they can have that kind of influence that kind of money that kind of I think they have influence to be able to do that if they choose to they can put some money behind it is that reason why it didn't work with alar then it doesn't mean that it's going to happen 100% of the time but you have the resources and the influence that's what some people are making the argument with okay at the same time you know I lived in Iran I lived around a lot of Muslims it's a 99% I think Muslim nation and we were a Christian family being raised there my mother and my father father mother's Armenian my dad's ass Syrian ass Syrian like I speak Aramaic I speak Armenian I speak farsy so that was us and we go to small little uh church and I went to an Armenian school uh called gulban and I went to an Assyrian school called bnam and there you go 99.4% okay of Iran's population is Muslim and so it's kind of like you got to be careful what's going on when you're watching news every night us is the enemy it's the evil empire you know the Sha was a puppet they owned him they controlled him he was doing everything he could to destroy the values and principles that Iran has and this was nonstop fed to you whether you had a choice do you think you have a little residue of that in your mental not at all like residue meaning like a taking that position and no no I just think do you think he's left any traces on your thought of on the on the what side on what it is to live amongst mus no no no no that that kind of having absorbed that when you were growing up yeah my mother was a part of the Communist party she was part of the two-day party so she was actually they escaped double double danger exactly well my dad was an imperialist so you want to talk about they got married in divorced to each other twice each other no literally they married my sister's born divorced remarried I'm born divorced wow to each other like Elizabeth Taylor yes for some that follow the history yeah she was part of this party today party of Iran and they were the ones who massacred big time in the 80s and the prisons yes and and so that's by the by the man who was just released from Sweden in the prisoner swap yes it's interesting that you yeah no that was not good uh but but going back to this your experience Jews 2% of US population 177% of all billionaires in us why do they make so much money and why are they so successful financially first thing is said it's a funny one there sorry I laugh just because it's it's um I think there are certain tropes that people fall into okay we just mentioned one which is the Churchill Trope which is a relatively modern one but if you want to demoralize a western population particular British population you have to come for Churchill and it's a concerted effort in my mind I don't this isn't to say I don't know what's happening with the Tucker interview but the left has deliberately come for Churchill because it destroys one of the holy places of the British psyche it destroys the idea that we were are have been a Force for good in the world and it destroys the idea that we um we what what did happen which we stood alone against Adolf Hitler and as a result Western Europe and the rest of the the continent and indeed Britain did not fall into the hands of Nazi fascism um but I'm interested when people fall into that likewise and we mentioned some of it earlier what I would regard as being not necessarily conspiratorial thinking but falling into certain ruts I think that the Jews are a sort of rut that people can fall into and one reason I say that is because it's a very interesting thing in the history of the Jews that they can be simultaneously accused of almost everything you mentioned that they're disproportionately successful and Wealthy that's what Jordan Peterson talked about when he did a video uh explaining the uh IQ score of ashkanazi Jews and explaining the fact that there's a reason why they make more money is because their IQ is above and beyond the average you know community and this is him talking about I've talked Jordan's a great friend I know I've spoken about this um but I just mentioned because um historically I mean Jews have been attacked for being poor as often as they've been attacked for being rich and sometimes simultaneously 19th century European anti-Semitism for instance relied on the simultaneous the cognitive dissonance of the roths Childs and also poor Eastern European immigrate Jews um it's a fascinating thing about I mean why this tiny population in World terms should attract so much attention it's because all of these things can be claimed simultaneously Jews used to be attacked for being stateless and in our day they're attacked for having a state um Jews have historically been able to be attacked for being religious and also for being secular um you can be blamed for the ultra religious Rabbi if you're Jewish and also for KL Marx this is my view is that anti-Semitism and attitudes towards Jews fall into a very very interesting part of the human psyche they are they are they are the perfect group for people looking for um single explanations for things um they are absolutely perfect for it and history has shown this and all the literature and the writing on on the history of Jews suggests this I find it very interesting in our own day that there is this deep interest in it for instance I mean you mentioned APAC but what's the obsession with APAC compared to for instance do you know about the amount of money that katar pumps into this country do we why don't we talk about the Qatari Lobby why they they've given billions of dollars among other things to Ivy League campuses when campuses like Columbia accept millions of dollars in donation from Qatar why is that not why is that not about the Qatar Lobby why don't we hear about that because the qataris seem not to be in the imagination inherited imagination of people as a guiding hand and as a disproportionately visible minority but you could do this I mean much more impressive in terms of uh of donations to American uh um lobbying entities is I mean like how much of the Saudis paid in lobbying in recent years why does this question upset you I'm curious no no it doesn't upset me at all okay but it it I tell you what it does do is it worries me and the reason it worries me is because as I say I see I see people falling into a very dangerous rut and I know too much history not not I mean you always can know more I know too much history not to recognize something that's happening at the moment on this question it's a very very strange thing when people with not very much knowledge of a situation start to pretend to be wildly knowledgeable about it and that's what that's really what I've seen in the last last year in particular in in the US on the right as well as on the left this was actually a very simple question for you to be honest well it's not that simple it's actually a very complicated question but here's here's here's what I was asking you so so I'm having a conversation there is no simple question in relation to this subject let me let me packet for you so you kind of know how this came about maybe that'll give you a little bit different Insight instead of thinking you're being cornered right now so I'm I'm having a I'm having a conversation I'm a guy that wants to know a little bit of everything I want to know what's going on I want to hear both sides of the argument where I'm at I want to find that why a little bit of everything I don't have time for every little bit I because that's not my specialty and I'll bring a guy like you because you're well read I want to hear your seven I'll bring the other side I want you know that's your world you're in I run eight companies I got four kids I'm business guy my special different yeah but we're busy but you choose what you want to specialize you can't specialize in 50 different stories and we're having this debate we're having this conversation it's families there is Muslims in the group who are friends Christians in the group and Jews in the friend in the community we're having this conversation won't give names because then people know my PE Community will know who I'm talking about I say you guys you have a you have a choice you have a choice between living in a city that's 100,000 100% filled with 100,000 Muslim families M okay great you can live in another city it's 100,000 but they're 100% Jewish or you can live in a city that's 100,000 but they're 100% Christians MH you got family you got kids safety and where you want to raise your family where do you put them rank it from 1 to three okay one guy who's the Muslim he's like I wouldn't do any of them I said why is that he said because I want my kids to be raised around you know everybody yeah I don't want it to be just one or the other sure I said but that's not this exercise in this context with this conversation I want you choose one okay he says okay I'm going to go Christians first Jew 2 and Muslims last and this is a Muslim this is a Muslim guy okay another guy who's a Jew goes Jew Christian muslim okay one other guy who's conflicted he says I don't care anyone them I feel safe with because I've seen good in everybody right one guy's saying this mhm but to me statistically it's not hard to sit there and study and say why does a country based on judeo Christian religion attract everybody us attracts Muslims it attracts Jews it attracts Buddhists it attracts scient that's not a hard question to ask that's not a hard question to ask but why is it that a country that's predominantly Muslim not attract everybody that wants to come there why is that so that's that's the part where I was asking you the question to say if Jews are 0 2% of us why are they 177% of billionaires what values and principles do they teach to their kids and families and communities that gets them to move up in the financial industry this doesn't just happen overnight no I mean there are lots of explanations for that I mean you could go the the rout the Jordan did which is about over performance uh I think there I mean there's lots of other explanations I mean uh there's for instance in banking the history of Jews in banking is very similar to the history of my own people in banking the Scots uh why did the Scots like the Jews always overperform in banking wherever they arve because they were from very High trust tightly nit communities where if you lent and you didn't repay the loan there was a social price to pay that's how the that's how Bic after Adam Smith that's how why scotson banking was so so good because the Presbyterian Society uh had a social cost to pay if things like for instance a loan were not repaid you would not be able to remain in the community having um being dishonest is it pure embarrassment is it embarrassment or well it's also eth thought and ethics it's definitely also EOS and I mean if you if you have a um a community in which for instance I'm not saying there is any such Community but if there was a community in which lying was totally acceptable for instance you know you would you would find it hard to have a mortgage system sure um so I think I think it's partly that um I mean the history of uh the in Europe is also partly to do with that the existence in The Lending markets and that came about in part from uh as I say a high trust within a small community uh so it it's it's bits of that I I if I I'm not at all concerned about having this discussion except that I worry about things going into it for this reason which is I I know the Trope that this leads into and that worries me you see I think that I think that any time when Society is febrile and maybe we are especially febr at the moment because we're living through this second Dark Age so I say the first Dark Age was the one where we didn't have access to information in the Middle Ages and the second dark dark age is this one that we're currently in where we have access to too much information and people find it hard to C as you mentioned you got four kids run a successful business and so on not got time to look into everything um in this situation I think that we are disproportionately likely to be looking for Omni explanations and I have certainly worried in the last year about people falling into this particular trench and it's one thing to say I'm asking the question and I'm perfectly willing to discuss it and debate it of course we're doing that right now but I also want to know why why is this back as a subject why do I see people on online talking about talmud and suddenly becoming sorry I mean they suddenly becoming experts in the talmud and they say things like I've been doing my research you haven't picked up a book come on yeah you've been reading the commentaries I mean we you do have to be rather suspicious about some of the places people fall into in the same way that look if you just asked me about the Freemasons MH I would be kind of hm I wonder why we're talking about Freemasons I just talk about it last week with this guy that was a guest of ours Carlson right Rand Carlson Rand Carlson and he was a 32nd degree Freemason and my drill sergeant in a military was a 32nd Freemason and we talked about it two weeks ago oh dear yeah it was actually interesting it's not that interesting what was the famous phrase on Freemasonry it's a bronze key that opens a silver Lo lock in a golden door that opens the room into which there's nothing so you're not interested by it for the fact that there's nothing to it nothing to it but one could say we've had what 13 presidents that were former Freemasons oh god look I look what I've LED you into now J why you doing this to me now God God you're easy to lead this is this is surprisingly so this is this is surprisingly so surprisingly so if I can say so so funny so one thing you got to get credit for you're you're a very good talker and I don't know how that happened maybe I don't know whether that's a compliment or not a talker is a compliment of my but let me go back to it again I'm asking this question for specific reasons because if you notice from the beginning of the of the conversation you and I had till till now I was Data at the beginning with UK I was Data with Dominic tar jinsky on why Poland as a safe place I was Data with Iran I was Data with uh uh the 2% Jewish community in us that's what they yet the 0 2% yet 177% is what we're talking about whatever I think it's 1% of us yet 177% of billionaires is what we have in the states that's data why is that that's not easy to do how did that happen so here's another question that's data people don't mind collecting for instance but I think there's but I think there's a lot to be said about it so for example if somebody if a college football team produces five different Super Bowl quarterback Champions you have to kind of look into it and say why are they producing so many Super Bowl quarterback Champions ex others are not we don't do that in loads of things oh we do do that in sports all the time oh yeah Absolut all the time uh yeah and also very I mean uh very selectively in sports I'm assuming you're not a sport are you a fan of sports or not search in sports what sports we don't AG into that we'll be speaking a foreign language we'll be speaking a foreign language each other go so here here's another question for you see where you go with this one I asked you a question about what communities families feel safe in right and we talked about the judeo Christian us everybody feels safe to be in an environment like this you're going to be fine right to be in an environment like this why do you think the opposite is not uh true why do you think uh Christian families who are leaving their countries they don't think about moving to Iran why do you think they don't think about moving to to you know different Muslim why do you think they don't think that this is one I will I will answer the question just let me do it in this you roundabout way this is one of the reasons why I'm worried about this anti-westernism and anti-americanism which I see coming from right and left at the moment is there's a there's a deep failure of recognition of what it is in our societies that's worked and I think we're at risk of killing the Golden Goose by saying the gold isn't golden enough and the things that work in our society are very fundamental what the framers the founders the framers of the Constitution realized um I mean you know maybe the only successful revolution in the world um they realized that things freedom of conscience freedom of speech were absolutely the bad rocks and that if you didn't get them then the rest could not follow um if you don't believe in freedom of expression freedom of belief freedom of worship a whole set of other problems come they essentially as I see it fall down to the fact that if you are in error you cannot correct it if you are in an error you cannot corrected unpack that so this is what John St Mill for inst one the great philosophers of Liberty um unpacks in one of his most famous works on Liberty MH the the Free Speech the necessity of free speech in a society comes about in part because if you are wrong you need to know you're wrong mhm so for if you're doing the if you're running the mean it's not working MH instead of keeping on allowing it to not work MH you have to have your ears and eyes open for a system that works and it's one by the one of the interesting things I find about Market guys in general is their ability to Pivot in a way by the way it just goes back slightly to the politicians issue my one of the reasons I'm interested in the way in which Market people think is that it's very very different to the way that politicians think politicians can see a wall and they drive towards it at the same speed or faster and you say wall wall wall and then they hit yeah a market guy you say wall and they move this is a very very different Instinct now but to go back to this the the ability to correct yourself if you're in error is absolutely key the the lack of information that has been available in not all but much of the Islamic world for many centuries has caused a deep stagnation deep stagnation in those societies and as I see it the oil rich countries like Qatar and Saudi although Saudi is interestingly pivoting at the moment uh very successfully really um the they are in the they have been in the same situation that European um uh monarchies were like in let's say the 14th 15th 16th centuries which was they could not grow the economy there was no such concept really MH you had resources in those days sheep and and and crops as today the gulf countries have oil um but that money was held by a small number of people and there was just no other way of squeezing money from them other than squeezing them further in some form of Taxation or invading a neighbor and taking their stuff um much of the Muslim world I think has failed to grow in the way that the West has succeeded in growing in the last few centuries MH and this causes many things one of them is a deep presentment and one of the most I think one of the most important insights I've ever stumbled upon in my life in relation to that is there's a particular problem in the the Islamic World which people don't really talk about very much but it's this that that the Quran is meant to be the final revelation of God to man the final Revelation there's none after it and all the revelations that come before in the abrahamic religions are part of Islam if you are the recipients of the final word and you are the followers of that word and the followers of that prophet and that God why is your Society not working and why are other societies working I think this is a deep psychological problem within much of the Muslim World which is we thought we were meant we were the winners theologically we're the ones who got the final Revelation and I think by the way that much of the anti-americanism the anti- Zionism and anti-westernism in much of the Muslim World falls down to this fact somewhere at its root which is how come they're doing better than us when we were told that we were best and I think it causes serious um cognitive dissonance it's one of the reasons why the Muslim world is so vulnerable to conspiracy theory it's why it's it's why when a when a shark attack happened at sham elsh 10 years ago the local authorities said that the shark that had eaten the bather at the most popular tourist Resort in Egypt had been sent by the zionists this is this is like seeing the hand of the goes back ear conversation seeing the hand of the wests and other things is an explanation for why the things are not doing well there and in country after country whether it's Egypt which is doing comparatively well compared to some of them um or Iran as well the am miseration of the people the inability to unleash talent and much more comes back to this small number of people benefiting and having no idea how to unleash Talent underneath that and political and personal and religious freedom including freedom of speech and freedom of worship are the absolute prerequisites and that is why I cannot understand the suicidal anti-westernism within our Societies in our time because as I like to say you know the the footfall should tell us everything nobody as you say is trying to go to Iran in order to have freedom of religion nobody is going into communist China for a better life certainly not from the West they have a negative in that migration right right and that this is this is why when I think of the sort of college students who believe that you know no one's had it so bad as you do in 2024 at Berkeley one of the things I sort of amazed at is that do you not notice that the world wants to come here do you not think there might be a reason for that and do you not think it might be because there are some things that we've done well here and that if we've done well with them in the past we should we should hold on to those things yeah you're you're a history guy got a question for you I'm Armenian I'm curious on how you're going to answer this let's see if this going to piss you off or not um I'll be the judge of that and I'll I'll I'll react to it so it is what it is so you know the world has recognized the Holocaust that had happened okay 100 plus countries including Germany you got reparations you got all this other stuff it' be rather alarming if Germany hadn't recognized I know exactly but they even paid for it so it's not like you know they they went one up they're like not only yes but we'll also pay our debt because of XYZ right but if if there's anybody that knows about genocides if anybody knows about genocides it would have to be the Jewish Community right with the Holocaust and the Armenians and others the Armenians prior to the to the Jewish Community you know 2.25 million whatever one and a half million Armenians you got I think it's 3 400,000 Greeks and quarter of a million Assyrians and isn't it amazing that that's still a political issue it is but uh believe it or not Joe Biden is the first one that recognize it okay I and of the 34 countries around the world that have recognize the Armenian Genocide including Argentina Brazil Canada France Germany Greece Italy Mexico Netherlands Poland Portugal Russia Sweden us Israel has not why not no idea you have to ask them don't you think that's a little weird I don't know it's one of those facts you can pull out that I just don't you have to ask them yeah I'm and I'm curious because to me it would be like you know that part is a it's not a uh like if there's anybody that would be the first to Hey Hey We're the first listen MH that's kind of weird what just happened I mean there's just I think there's a load of weird stuff in the world you can always pull something like that out that's that's what are you driving at I'm I'm Armenian I'm driving it because I'm Armenian you know so to me like we don't sit there and we say you know the events didn't happen to to the to the Jewish Community but if they're you you know that happened you're not by the way I don't know if you saw what erigon said recently did you see what ER said I follow him relatively closely he's quite a close enemy so Eran if you type in news uh type in ergon and Israel I think that's the one right there the first story wrap go zoom in a little bit so we can read it I can see all the stories ergon seeks Islamic that's the one erdogan seeks Islamic alliance against Israel says it's expansionism Gaza right so part of it you know you'll hear some people make the argument the reason why Israel doesn't want to recognize the Armenian Genocide is because they may lose an ally like turkey but turkey is not necessarily the biggest Ally to Israel especially the position that they're taking I don't think Eragon wakes up in the morning saying I wonder how safe Israel is no I mean Edan is a deep opponent of Israel of course for sure it is but what's your point I just think if the Israeli Community is seeing what's happening they know what history is and and they're seeing what turkey and aeran was doing to Armenia oh yeah sure why wouldn't they come out and say hey we don't support this and we also recognize the Armenian Genocide it's a little weird well it could be a a real politique thing of the very very tense Israeli Turkish relationship which as you know I mean sometimes it's sometimes it's relatively uh tepid and at other times it's absolutely rank like with the Mari mamara but um this is different though I mean erogan is saying leanon Syria our I mean this is erogan doing erdogan I mean um as I say I'm I'm not Hamas is not defending only defending Gaza but also Islamic lands oh yeah absolutely I see Hamas deeply deeply caring about other Arabs I see I see that absolutely I mean hamas's desire to Simply help the people of Lebanon like their friends in Hezbollah they definitely care about the Lebanese people and definitely definitely big humanitarians these Hamas guys the the apparently you know based on this article they're sweethearts yeah well I mean Edan is an extraordinary uh uh little Tyrant uh when he was almost overthrown the other the other year in that whatever it was that happened when was it uh 2016 17 18 uh when there was that sort of um what seemed to be an attempt to overthrow Edan in Turkey do you remember that that immediately strangely enough the next morning he had a list of 2,000 judges who are responsible for the attempted overthrow amazing how much data you can collect overnight if you're Edan and of course all the judges yeah got they come up Edan is not somebody I would go to for morals or advice or anything else he's he's a piece of work he has got the strongest military in the Middle East though he's he's a he's an is he's he's an islamist very obviously and um and he's also in NATO which is potentially was a big mistake by NATO he is but he's also talking about wanting to join the bricks I don't know if you saw that last week he he wants to join the bricks and that's kind of tricky right there if you want to do that right because if you're NATO you you almost have to be anti- Russia right or not necessarily anti- Russia anti expansionism anti expansionism of Russia right it's just so funny There is there is this rule that I have about um when people you know criticize disproportionately criticize Israel that they always reveal something about themselves yeah and in edan's case he's accusing Israel of expansionism should see what erogan has done with the Kurds what what's your position with war so right now you know what's my position with war let me explain what I mean by that so right now like with the Middle East okay so you got elections you got Trump you got Kamala you got all the stuff that's going on right now and you know some people are saying hey man we got to see Trump gets elected Ukraine Russia is going to be done you know you know everything going on with Israel and uh uh Palestine Gaza he's going to stop that overnight you know and then from there let's not get involved in businesses that's we have nothing to do what's your position with that what what what position should America take with everything that's going on in the Middle East well I I I I'd say it's another of the trenches that is available for us to fall into which is uh the temptation to retreat from the world America is the most important country in the world by an incredibly long by an incredibly Long Way um not just financially not just militarily culturally uh in terms of ideology in terms of the spread of the ideas that come from America I see no scenario in which America can Retreat from the world as it is and for the world to remain as it is and I know because I people I know on the American right as well as on the American left always always at the risk of falling into the temptation of American withdrawal from the world and I always have this the same thing which is have has America made mistakes of course has it got involved in things it couldn't deal with Afghanistan absolutely but that is not an argument for America stepping back because although America should be judicious in where it steps in in the world if it has no involvement in the world other people will and if America doesn't want to be uh the dominant power on the world stage then it will have to seed the terrain to China or Communist Party of China or whoever else um I'm interested by the way in the particular on the right I'm interested in this fall into the isolation moment it's very interesting those people want America still to be the foremost country in the world but don't want to be involved in the world interesting that don't want to don't want to be involved in every war no no no America is not involved in every war plenty of stuff I mean what's America doing in Myanmar we we're involved in a main ones whether it's whether it's funding money it's you know resour main ones I mean what are the two main ones right now that the well the two ones that have the most the two ones that have the most attention is different what's costing more than those two well the Syrian Civil War that's lasted the last decade is costing far more lives I'm talk hang hang on hang I'm talking like two years the Syrian Civil War has gone on for more than a decade now right more people have been killed in that than have been killed in every single War involving Israel and all of the Arab armies in the last 80 years so it does seem actually that people's attention is sometimes very clearly on certain issues so why do you think that is uh a range of things in the in the case of I cover the Ukraine war was with the embedded with Ukrainian Armed Forces when they retaking K mik from the Russians and um uh so SE that war up close uh that one is a very straightforward one I don't believe that Ukraine is part of Europe but it's awfully close and if you if you go to the Baltic states as I did again um I know 18 months ago I suppose a year ago um if you go to the Baltic states laia Lithuania and so on they are really worried about Russia really worried uh they have you know enlistment and so on if you go to Central and Eastern Europe the simply the further east you go across Europe the more you find a genuine concern about this if Vladimir Putin had succeeded in making it all the way to Kev in uh 2022 Europe would be um uh shaking its boots even more than it currently is it would have uh and it would have been an unbelievable uh destabilizing effect on the world um it's not the case as some people pretend prend that Vladimir Putin is only interested in Ukraine I know that because I've been to the country not the state the country of Georgia when he tried to invade that 2008 so the idea that Putin simply simply has Ukraine in his sights is is not true and should we get into World War III over this obviously not or FL I hope not I hope not but should he be allowed to gobble up Nations whatever you think of them by the way and then you this is a point to which a lot of people on the right will say well Ukraine is so corrupt and this and that and that let's say let's say if I agreed with all of that nevertheless not good for World stability to allow Russia to invade nation states particularly ones whose security that we had agreed to uh um whose uh borders we'd agreed to secure I mean that was part of the deal that Britain was involved in as well with the the handing of of the nukes in the 90s so Ukraine is Ukraine is a war that is deeply troubling Europe and NATO and therefore America does have interests in that so you're for that war you're for the money and the funding that we're given to that we could we could we could go into all sorts of the details of it I have criticisms around the edges about the way in which the fundings happen the way in which the arming has happened the training and so on but to date Vladimir Putin has not been able to overrun all of Ukraine and I think that's a good thing and this is this has happened by the way with uh American funding but no American troops and if people don't like the idea of American troops on the ground around the world in order to secure world peace and the global order the global order of nation states if people don't like the idea of American troops being on the ground what else have you got available than helping and arming other Count's troops who are willing to fight for their own country let see any other options unless you want as I say to just step back Vladimir Putin wants it he can have it Israel and the Hamas War has gained the world's attention because every war involving Israel always does gain the world's attention and maybe it's because of what we're discussing before about disproportionate attention towards the tiny percentage of the world's population that's Jewish um I mean I can't help thinking that is the case because as I say I mean I just notice in country after country people being massacred and um nobody gives a damn I mean um I've seen the massacre of Christians in the countries in the Arab countries and the the destruction of the Christian communities in Iraq for instance destructions of the Christian communities in the north of Nigeria the world is not focused day in day out on these stories as the other thing goes if it's Jews It's News uh the world is is obsessed with the question of Israel and there are lots of reasons for that um and this past year I mean um I spent a lot of the time in Israel and Gaza um I'm you know the world seems have gone crazy over this conflict utterly crazy so what do you think is going to happen Trump gets elected if Trump gets elected what do you think happens with those two Wars you think he stops like he says overnight we don't we don't know of course I mean because he he actually has a he has a clever strategy on this which he did in 2016 as well which is say I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do yeah I saw that and I like that I like well it's a good this thing of the the the interviewed politician having to give precisely what they would do in office is not a wise idea right not when you're dealing with people on the world stage like Putin or hamz um I don't I mean there is a you know I I think that in the case of Ukraine sad as I am about it it'll it'll probably end up having to be a land swap situation and there'll be re redrawing of the borders as it's it's terrible but since the spring offensive failed last year I don't think that the ukrainians have had enough of a military success uh since 22 um so I don't know how he would carve that out how it would be done in relation to the Israel hamz war it's not really an Israel hamz war it's an isra Israel um Iran War I mean it's it's a war between at the moment one of Iran's proxy the Revolutionary Islamic government Iran's proxies Hamas and Israel but the real war obviously is between Jerusalem and tan um and the the thing that Trump can do which the current Administration has not done is to um strangle the uh the Revolutionary regime in tyan um by the time Trump left office the Iranians were begging for a release of the for relief of the sanctions and they got it under Biden and they got this huge cash flow and um that's I do think that's I mean it's not the only you you can't say that for instance October 7th wouldn't have happened if Trump had been in but the cash flow to Iran since the Democrats have been in has definitely helped the regime in Terror and that means it's been able to fund its Terror proxies from Lebanon to Gaza to I mean even Yemen you know so the Yemen the uh the hoties in Yemen are able to fire really pretty significant Munitions at places like uh elat in the south of Israel uh that's all Iran is doing now I I think that Trump the most likely thing he would do is to do what he did before and is to try to title and The Cordon around the regime in tyan um that would certainly if you could stop the Ayatollah expansionism across the region and unify the basically the countries that were part of the Abraham Accords and bring some more into it there's a definite way to have a better situation in the whole region for everyone um he could broker that I mean you know he broker the the Abraham Accord nobody thought could be done and um if he could add to that that would be EXT orary but the main the main thing is is stopping the ayats from their I think absolutely insane actual expansionism you think they're going to give a like you think you're going to they're going to react cuz they're going to be like I'm getting money from you know China I'm getting money from Russia you're not going to be able to do anything to Iran you think Iran will react and stop with their proxies and it has rather reacted recently I mean if you send hundreds of missiles and Munitions that are directly from Iran into Israel that is kind of Intolerable don't you think I do no what I'm saying is you think Iran is at a point right now that they feel if Russia and China have their backs well there's a big capable of well I mean I think the first thing's got to goes if Trump's got a great relationship with Putin and he reacts to Trump Putin cannot empower you know Iran and if Trump comes in and the tariffs go and he starts challenging them with the Mexico tariffs with the cars coming up here from MH you know husan the big plant that theyve built in Mexico and they're saving all this money where per hourly labor they're paying in China 475 I think husan in Mexico is 395 they're saving money on workers in Mexico so if Trump goes like this to Russia and China then Iran has no power mhm if he does that and if there's anybody capable of doing that it's him yeah I know that's what I think I mean I think that and I think in any case if I was the Iranians I'd be very worried about throwing myself into the arms of the Chinese Communist party and indeed Vladimir Putin who are after their own interests but just just going back to this quickly I mean I it is um I mean this obsession with the Israel hamz war in the last year it is it's terrible because October 7th was unbelievable and hamz you know has this trap that it tries to catch Israel into every time which is you know come in and kill our people uh in order that we can call for the world's attention to be on you as the aggressor and um the world Falls for it every time um you know the the intercepted messages The Wall Street Journal ran the other week from sinir the architect of the 7th who H leader now in Gaza the AR the the phrases the intercepted messages of here is where he talks about how how good it is that there are so many casualties in the gazan population because the Israelis are being blamed for it um every casualty in my view is on hamaz because you're not allowed to start a war and then moan when you lose it and every casualty is on himz because they could have given back the hostages or not taking them in the first place um the the world is very uh is very unempathetic when anything happens to Israel in my view are wildly lacking in empathy I remember when um and I think it's something like a belief on the right as well as Parts on parts of the right as well as parts of the left there's something like a belief that Israel did something that justifies this I think that's the sort of root of the the uh problem and and I remember after 911 there was a uh an academic in the UK called Mary beard the classicist who said in the London review of books that you know bad as 911 was it was hard to get out of your head the fact that America had it coming that was a huge scandal at the time because most of us were like how dare you like even if am America had done every single thing that her enemies accused her of how dare you say that America had the killing of 3,000 civilians in one day coming well I'm was intolerant of that attitude towards the state of Israel as I am towards the Republic here I think it's a uh it's a reprehensible attitude and as for all of the self-taught uh um people whove suddenly mugged up on tiny tiny corners of Middle Eastern history in the last 11 months um I I have yet to find somebody who's uh to persuade me that if for instance thousands and thousands of Americans have been killed on one day and thousands of Americans by proportion of population taken kidnapped that America would not be tearing up the Earth to get them back yeah well I mean there's uh and that by the way it would have right to do so and that its friends and allies should expect it to do so yeah you know I understand everybody I understand everybody's arguments on the the the the side of Defending yourself obviously I understand those who have family in Palestine and they're sitting there saying hey I'm not for this you're going to think your family first I'm fully against any of the proxies that Iran funds as a guy that lived there and witnessed what the Hezbollah did living there where your women and your family are frightened of walking outside cuz you may get you know whipped 77 times in your back for showing a little bit of hair a little bit of this those stories are endless um and I'm for 100% America first being the greatest country in the world and we got to do our best to make sure we keep it that way and some of the stuff that's happening right now with us being confused doesn't make me it it concerns me a little bit but I'm an optimist I'm a guy that believes future looks bright I believe the right people will rise up I think the right people are finding each other I think we're going in the right direction I'm always going to be in that state of mind it's always been more beneficial to be 51% optimistic and thinking the future looks bright and 49% being paranoid that only the paranoid survive and and floting with that mindset is a little bit confusing at times cuz sometimes you go too much this way too much that way both way but I'm always going to be more optimistic than anything else Douglas appreciate you for coming out uh Rob if you can do me a favor the events coming up let's put the link below uh Miami Beach that's going to be tomorrow tomorrow the date is the 10th I believe then you're at DC the 11th La 23rd New York 29th Denver Colorado October 13th Rob put the link to all the events below for folks to go see as well as the link to his book that I think people should go check out the war on the west with that being said I'll give you the final words before we finish up no it's a great pleasure to be here finally to meet we've um got a lot more to go over it seems to I I think we're going to do many many more of these for many years to come but I appreciate you for coming on this was great appreciate you thank you than you take care everybody bye- bye bye- bye by the way a lot of people ask us how the hell do you guys get all this content research AI for your pbd podcast how do you guys pull all this information out we worked the last 12 months 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