today's guest is a world leading expert in the art of human behavior so many people view the world as like Harry Potter but they think there's some magic script out there I'm just going to have this little spell and it's going to make somebody's Behavior change but this is as close as it gets right here serving 20 years in the US Navy he's trained Secret Service and military leaders on Behavior profiling interrogation and psychological warfare men will kind of do this behavior of covering their genitals during three key periods that's feeling vulnerable feeling threatened or feeling insecure and women instead of covering the crotch will usually put an arm across their abdomen they'll cover the uterus today he's revealing his Secrets educating Millions online in working directly with CEOs and FBI agents to navigate the science of influence could you hypnotize me to murder someone absolutely and how long would that take 40 minutes and this episode we'll dive into the strategy he uses to control any conversation how government Elites manipulate the masses and the hidden cues that can reveal exactly what someone is thinking Chase Hughes welcome to the Jack Neil podcast hey Jack yeah so since we just met each other and had a few minutes I have a notepad here and since you're a behavior expert I was wondering if you could maybe write a few predictions about me just from interacting with me briefly in the past few minutes what if I write down three of your biggest insecurities that's a good one and you don't have to read them on camera you just got to say if they're accurate or not okay and we'll we'll open it at the end for the record we have spoken for approximately 15 minutes all right there's number one number two give me a specific and I'll give you uh give me a situation that you're in and I'll give you an insecurity in that situation um core uh for the third one I'll write down the way that I know already that you use to escape from these first two yeah we go for that no one's ever done this all right and I'll sign it can just put that right there awesome so yeah Chase has just made three predictions about my insecurities and uh one was how I deal with those insecurities and you haven't really asked me many questions uh to be able to know that so I'll would be interested to see at the end of the podcast how that turns out just so you know just us talking right now um there's a lot that you can see on human beings and we can dig into that if you want to I can tell you the methods uh that are apparent on most people what can you tell about a person just by looking at their face quite a bit so we spend most of our time in conversations looking at people's faces right so that's that's where we always want to start teaching any kind of behavior reading or body language Behavior profiling the first thing that you you want to notice about a person's face is what are the lines that are etched into their face if you see somebody and this happens by the age of like 18 19 so it's not like lines from from aging this is lines from expression so if someone's smiling all the time I guarantee you've met people before you'll see these little crows feet from a natural smile that are kind of etched because they live that life and they're kind of happy all the time if somebody's angry all the time you're going to see these two little muscles right here pulling together this called the glabella you're going to see kind of an etching right there if somebody's really social you're going to see more lines on the forehead develop cuz this our forehead is our social billboard and that's how we communicate emotion so people are less likely to trust someone just instinctively if their forehead is covered up like your hair but uh this is how we communicate like I enjoy your presence hello good morning if you raise your eyebrows when you talk to a person and you could try this as an experiment today you're going in an airport here in a couple hours if you just raise your eyebrows when you say hello 90% of people will reflect back the eyebrow raise without knowing that they even did it so instinctively programmed into human beings so you can see people who are naturally more social from the forehead more enjoyment uh happiness driven from the crow's feet in the corner of the eyes you could see anger right here but one of the most profound things that I ever discovered was if you make a skeptical facial expression the first thing it does it raises your cheeks and compresses your low lower eyelid like give it a shot really quick like somebody's feeding you it raises this up and kind of wrinkles the skin right here so I thought if someone's spending a lifetime like thinking they're getting lied to or they're really skeptical that's going to etch onto the face so I started experimenting with it and I thought this there's probably 20% Effectiveness but it's more like a 100 and then I gave this information to two guys who are comedy hypnotists and maybe you've seen like a show or something um but you know they go on stage and bring people up and make them do crazy and all that um and they have tested it with like between 5 to 10,000 people and they said it's 100% the people who wind up staying on stage and being highly suggestible have really smooth lower eyelids so like I'm extremely suggestible to hypnosis and all that stuff look see my eyelids have are totally smooth right there you have somebody um your age you still have like a Le lower level of suggestibility so that would be Factor too in the paper that we put together to write up on this um and that one we're still kind of figuring out but so far it's between 90 and 100% accurate like the more suggestible someone is the smoother the lower eyelids are going to be and keep in mind this this is not some published science I haven't done any research well scientific research on it but it's anecdotal and I've seen so much proof thousands and thousands of of repetitions is that something I have you have an what would be called an LEF lower eyelid factor to which means you're mildly suggestible so you have slight wrinkling there from kind of that expression over time interesting so the next thing is and the most important thing that you can spot and this is for anybody if you're pitching if you're negotiating you can see it on a zoom call is watching how often someone blinks and this is one the most powerful superpowers that you could you could ever have so we call this blink rate and this is like how many times per minute a person is blinking and the average blink rate is between like 15 to 17 in a conversation for humans if your blink rate starts going up you're seeing stress in a person so if we're in a conversation let's say you're pitching a company or something and somebody asks you about your financial projections and your blink rate starts going through the roof as you're talking talking about all this money that's a high stress response and that could be deceptive but keep in mind there's no behavior in human beings for deception none what we're looking for is a change or stress most of the time so if I watch a person's blink rate go up what I really want to understand is what's the context what is what was just mentioned or talked about that that is making this change happen so in a high stress scenario you can see blink rate above 80 per minute and in a low blink rate scenario that's where we have Focus so if someone's genuinely interested in a conversation you'll see their blink rate drop almost to 3 to four per minute which is a massive difference from 4 per minute to 80 per minute and you can spot it from like 20 yards away so it's it's so easy to see stress and focus on a person so the last time you were really focused on like a movie that was really great your blink rate was probably three or four and the last time you were maybe doing something stressful like taking a math exam or doing something in school that stressed you out that your blink rate was probably 70 or 80 the cool thing is we're almost never aware of how often we're blinking so it's so outside of our conscious awareness that we don't keep it under natural control all the time and it's hard to control so I can look at any conversation like you you look across an airport or a restaurant at two people talking you can see who's more relaxed than the other person right away and that's just looking at the eyes so we're just looking at face this is not even the rest of the body so now we can see not just he has a high blink rate or a low blink rate what we're really wanting to look for if I'm teaching you to do this as a trial consultant or I'm you're about to go select a jury or help a lawyer select a jury you want to look for change you don't want to look for oh it's high oh it's low I'm what I'm in the business of is spotting changes so this person behaved this way a few minutes ago and it just shifted to something else so if if I'm doing public speaking I'm speaking on stage a lot and stuff like that I'm making eye contact with people that are out in the crowd the people that are sitting out there in the audience and as I'm doing that I'm looking at eyeballs so I can average the entire room's blink rate so my job as a public speaker is to keep low blink rate as possible that means focus is happening so I'm looking out around the crowd and I see blink rate starting to go up I'm seeing people blink more often I know instantly that I'm losing attention they're getting stressed out they're thinking about lunch so I'll raise my voice up higher I'll walk to the other side of the stage I'll clap my hands really loud or change the subject and automatically I start seeing blink rate go back down again because I've regenerated focus and you can spot that in any conversation and think about like if you want to ask someone a question about something that should not cause them stress but you're seeing that blink rate goes up that's a big deal you're seeing it change to this High blink rate so we teach this in jury selection and all that kind of stuff but you don't have to count and that's where that stresses a lot of people out like I'm sitting here counting how how often somebody's blinking you practice just looking how often someone's blinking and saying that that looks pretty normal that looks pretty slow that looks pretty fast so your job after that is is it increasing or decreasing and if you want to persuade someone you want to influence someone your goal is to get them to Blink less and less often that means that they're gener you're generating more and more focus in them subconsciously that make sense yeah and the second thing is uh shutter speed and the shutter speed is the speed of the eyelid closing and then opening back up again so we see an increase in shutter speed with fear and we see a decrease in shutter speed with Comfort but when somebody is fully comfortable let's say we start a conversation and all of a sudden I start talking about uh unpaid bills and I see someone's shutter speed increase and their blink rate starts going up I know that that is a really hot topic for that person I can't read their mind but I know that I'm seeing a reaction based off of subject matter does that make sense so with the face like just a couple of the things that you need to be on the lookout for especially if you're dealing in business negotiations women going out on dates with like manipulative dudes and they need to spot it a way sooner so they don't get like sucked into some horrible Vortex is lip compression and this one is really easy to spot and it's a very Universal thing across all cultures lip compression is when someone squeezes their lips together you'll see like like that and it usually means almost all the time withheld opinions so like if we're talking and you're like uh Chase how do you like the new thing that you that you just bought I'm like oh it's great so you're seeing somebody withhold some kind of opinion not deception it's not lying per se it's obviously based on the context but it's really important to be able to say oh there's something being held back it doesn't mean you need to dig it out or anything but it's good as a data point to know that there's something here if I'm in sales and I see lip compression I know what I'm just not going to talk about that anymore I'm not going to bring that that topic up anymore if I'm in U an interrogation I know I may need to ask more questions about that thing but it's very powerful to notice if you see when a Topic's bring being brought up someone's listening and they do this lip compression Behavior it's most often withheld opinions or something being withheld emotion and the other variation of this is lip retraction and this is when the lip goes past the barrier of the teeth so when you see the lip go like into the mouth or you see a finger go into the mouth something passes the barrier of the teeth it's a need for reassurance most of the time so and you'll see that like um I'll be calling someone up on stage or I'll do uh some kind of thing where I'm talking to a person and you'll see them do some kind of thing where something's going into their mouth I'll you right away I know that that person needs some kind of reassurance and it is so powerful it could it could drastically change how you react to people and how you communicate to people it can make you a much better Communicator as you start seeing blink rate go up I know I'm going to change the conversation to something because I I know you're being stressed out if I bring something up I see lip compression I know that there may be something there or I need to move off of this topic or if I'm in interrogation I need to dig in this topic that's just just looking at the those are just a few things that we can start looking for what else do you suspect uh you can tell but might not be 100% certain you'd mention the eye thing wasn't proven through data but is there anything else like uh I've heard a lot of people talk about physiy yeah like being able to tell based on like Jaw structure and like nose structure like tilt of eyes like that type of stuff is that all or I think most of it's been discredited in is proven and I think if it was if it was even proven to be 20% reliable I would be like on I'd be on board I'd say let's let's learn it and and add that to my stack of data because when I'm looking at a person I'm not looking for one thing I'm looking for a cluster of different things that will tell me one piece of information does that make sense yeah so physiy started back um 17 I think in the late 1700s and they would make these models of the human head and based on where the lumps are on the skull they would say oh this is an high intelligence and this is a low intelligence and then they went into facial shapes and structures and I think 99% of that stuff has been discredited completely discredited but I will I will say as a caveat if I want to like simulate I want to do research on high stakes intelligence interrogations where we have like a detainee and an interrogator and I give a couple of college kids a lunch voucher to come up here and volunteer for an experiment and then they pronounce like oh we did research on interrogation there is nothing nothing that a college can simulate that would be even remotely close to an intelligence interrogation scenario where their person's sleep deprived they're facing the death penalty if they give out information you can't replicate a lot of human behavior in some college basement somewhere doing an experiment so it's very hard to quantify and I think a lot of people make a terrible mistake of thinking that human behavior is a science and not just and not an art form because every human being is a little bit different everybody's got different background and different culture and different from their childhood kind of still kind of running the the little programs and stuff in the background so treating it like it's geometry where we can just accurately predict everything and like relying solely on on one psychology textbook and that's the source that's ground truth about every human being in the world I think that that is a mistake but I do think it is a blend of Art and Science and I think what I do when it comes to behavior profiling is a lot like uh being a meteorologist I have all of these little data points so this is likely what's going to happen so we kind of we deal in likelihood instead of like this is the pronounced actual thing what's the easiest way to make someone feel comfortable around you man that's fantastic um one of the fastest ways that a person gets to feel comfortable there's a few different ways number one is that they see you as predictable and reliable and so that starts with like this person a is not a threat so not being a threat means I'm not facing a person headon so like the way you and I are facing right now is non-adversarial our brains are kind of wired to be a little bit more competitive when people are sitting directly facing headon to each other this is why uh in the bars back in even in the old west they they knew this they didn't know really why but they knew that I'm going to sit a bunch of dudes at a bar who are getting drunk for them to be able to talk to each other they have to see each other so let's put up a huge mirror on the back of the bar where they can look at each other without facing each other so it it lowered the likelihood of fights taking place so that would be number one is like am I in some kind of nonverbal position that creates some kind of adversarial thought process in their mamalian part of their brain is that specific to men though or oh no no like if you uh women have the exact same uh fight ORF flight response so like when another human a woman or a man comes up and like facing directly onto that person it triggers our brain to say this might be a conflict or confront ation this might be something I have to deal with physically so let me just explain like our brain has not changed in about 200,000 years and we do not have a part of the brain dedicated a hierarchical structure of the brain dedicated to language none this is why like it takes babies years to start talking and speaking we have to learn that but a baby can walk a baby can learn this sign language like milk and I want more and we can do all of that because we have hierarchical structures for those things but we do not for language language is relatively new to our species so we rely on a lot of non-verbal communication but we read other people at this gut level or if it's a woman it would be reading people with like some Intuition or women's intuition is way better than men's in my opinion but we read these micro movements first and the mamalian brain is what's truly in charge charge of a human being so if I'm thinking I need to make someone comfortable what most people would think is what are the words I need to say and language is always above and beyond the least important thing uh in Persuasion and influence least important it's the last part of our brain that evolved so it's the least important thing so if you think of any sales team in the world and I'm sure you've dealt with a lot of dudes who do like online sales they have a sales team like our mutual friend Marcel has his own sales team one of the biggest mistakes I've seen in since I've retired from the military and now I train a lot of sales teams around the country is they want a better sales script that's it so I show up and they're like oh we need different words and I say if you paid me $10 million and I developed the best sales script on planet Earth in the history of humankind and gave it to one of your salespeople has social anxiety it's the crappiest sales script in the world and you're going to blame it on the script I can give you every single word to say but if you're not communicating the right signals nonverbally those words are meaningless they're they have no effect so it's so important that we understand my ability to make another person comfortable is non-verbal 90% non-verbal so it's how am I approaching that person so making someone comfortable and making someone trust you about the same thing and then we get into Authority are you an authority figure so you can be dominant but not domineering you can be in control but not controlling but you do this all nonverbally are you in charge of yourself do you have high self-confidence do you uh present a non-threatening uh body language and and demeanor and one of the the best most powerful ways to start communicating that is by communicating with your palms open and this is proven there's even a TED Talk About It by a good friend of mine named Mark bden and uh he's on the behavior panel YouTube channel with us we cover a lot of True Crime body language breakdowns and stuff if you watch his T talk it's fascinating but as a as a quick otit note summary of what this means is while you're speaking if you're speaking with your arms and hands at Naval height so like even with your belly button and your Palms open when you're making these important points in what you're saying people are like 10x more likely to believe you and trust you and Trust in what you say just by having these open palms and you can demonstrate it so quickly and so easily like even in a seated position if I'm sitting here like this and I'm covering my genitals right now which is a fear response when people lie or when they're scared or when they're really fearful about what they're saying or what they're experiencing right and I say Jack you can trust me it feels weird so if I cover my abdomen because we don't have bones right here to protect organs right so one of the things we do when we're fearful is put bones where there aren't any bones so we'll kind of cover this abdomen women are more likely to do it but I say Jack you can trust me or if we're talking like this and I say Jack you can trust me it it feels different in your brain because we have this hard wiring to see this openness this open non-verbal communication it feels completely different and Mark Bowden calls this the truth plane where people are just way more likely to accept what you say or believe you and in reality making someone comfortable is about having confidence that's actually contagious so when somebody has confidence that's artificial it makes other people feel small if your confidence is genuine and you're you're not faking confidence out of ego that's what makes people small but if I'm truly confident it should make other people conf confident even if they have social anxiety even if they're stressed out I have a calm demeanor and enough composure that my confidence I have enough that I can transfer to other people if you're talking about persuasion and influence whether you're a cult recruiter or an interrogator or a parent uh trying to raise a kid you want your confidence to be contagious your number one goal is to transfer my level of confidence to that other person so they can make a decision I want to increase their confidence so that's the number one thing is having confidence to the point where it's transferable to the other person I wanted to touch on what you said a minute ago about the uh like croch exposure uh just because there was this interview a few days ago with Trump and zalinsky and people were commenting on the fact that uh Trump was kind of covering his genitals and zilinsky was like sitting like this so like what does that mean like uh like you're hiding something if you're covering your crotch or like what what's kind of the thing there there's going to be a lot of body language experts out there somehow I got voted the number one body language expert in the world on this like Global gurus thing and they stopped put they stopped that category I think maybe a lot of the votes were my mom going on there but in reality what a lot of these experts are going to say are he did this so this might mean this but what you won't hear them say is talking about changes which we already talked about when did that happen how long did it stay that way and when did it open back up again so what was the moment that happened when the movement took place of that genital protection behavior and there's probably a few still frames you could get where zalinski is covering his abdomen covering his crotch there's you can get still shots to to mean anything that you want them to mean but what we really need to pay attention to is the change so I didn't I actually haven't watched it it's just stressful and I just choose not to watch anything negative or weird just don't expose my brain to it but in any situation you can cherry-pick little pieces of data until you turn on the job of I'm looking for changes to behavior and that's the number one thing so it it I would say that there's some people out there will say oh zeny was confident Trump was not maybe the whole interview didn't look like that I don't know if the whole interview was like that and his hands were like covering his crotch the whole time I would say there's some insecurity men will will kind of do this behavior of covering their their genitals and women during three key periods that's feeling vulnerable feeling threatened or feeling insecure those three and women instead of covering the crotch will usually put an arm across their abdomen and they'll cover the uterus and you'll see this that um I can't remember where this was this research was done but uh young girls going to college for the first time so they're in this new environment uh the first like 8 to n days I think of school they would carry their books and stuff in front of their abdomen and the more socially comfortable they got with everybody the books be carried a little bit lower and lower and lower and then down at the side uh and men are likely to do the same thing so we kind of pull our arms in when we're feeling those moments but always think about the change like when is it happening so the movement there's so many body language experts out there that speak about body language like it's a still image and and I've never understood that because when I first started learning I thought oh this is a I learned by looking at pictures in a book I'm like still image still image and I know what that means if I see it I don't I need to look for the change to that behavior when someone moves to that behavior so if if you see Trump covering his genitals the whole time I would say there's a pretty good bet there's vulnerable threatened or insecure it's one of those three things I mean you've been on a lot of podcast and in a lot of high stakes negotiations how do you get what you want out of an interaction okay so number one I need to figure out what my desired outcome is so I need to go in there with an outcome in mind and a lot of people don't and every conversation you should have an outcome I want this person to feel great could be an acceptable outcome but right off the bat you want to get them to start making identity agreements and this is just kind of a little micro class of things that you can do identity agreements means that you get them to either verbally or in their own head say I am the type of person who bill in the blank so what I've teach in sales and even in interrogations is if we start a conversation and I say You Know Jack there's so many podcasters out there who are just have this rigorous structure that they have to follow and it's kind of nauseating to be on the podcast okay so I'm glad I'm in here with you today I didn't say anything about you but I got you to mentally agree that you are not one type of person do you see how quickly that starts to that can start compounding really quick so if I walked in here like that I could I might be able to get you to not pull out your iPad to not do anything does that make sense so far so I've just said there's so many people who Do XB behavior I'm glad that it's you and me here today I'm glad that you and I are talking I'm getting you to agree that you are not that type of person and imagine if I'd come in here and I'll just use you and me as an example if that's all right with you yeah for sure imagine if I'd like uh when I came into the studio today I was down in this little parking lot area you were up this up the stairs and as I was walking up the stairs I said dude I was just watching your podcast it is so refreshing to see somebody who who is a podcaster and can still do whatever I say I can make sure that you'll probably do that or act that way on the show because I've I didn't get you to agree to an idea I got you to agree to an identity and identity is the strongest way to influence a human being to get them to agree to who they are as a person so let's say I wanted you to be more open and vulnerable about yourself so I walk I'm walking up these stairs and I'm like dude I just finished watching your podcast and like so many podcasters are so closed off and just they push these barriers up and they they try to fake every fake their way through podcast so it's really rare to see somebody who is just genuinely open and authentic so I really appreciate it I didn't say that that was you but your head said it was you but if I say you are this kind of person and you and I give you these direct compliments your brain feels like it's being influenced your brain feels like there's some manipulation going on but if I take that out I'm taking away your ability to really scrutinize what I'm saying because I'm just making a generalized statement even though I'm getting you to say yes that is me does that make sense yeah and another way and this is just like the first beginning of a conversation and let's say I said You Know Jack I just W your watched your podcast I I got to tell you man as a behavior guy I'm wondering like how did you get this open and just completely raw and able to share all your feelings at at your age I think I was like 30 until I got that open with other people and the moment that you start answering that question you're agreeing to an identity verbally now I've got you to verbally agree to an identity and most of the time like if you just memorize that one phrase if like you want a quick oneliner which I hate uh these little scripts and stuff but ask somebody like how did you get this open with other people have you always been this way or is this something you had to work on I know I had social anxiety I had to work on it so I'm curious about something and then I make an admission and it makes the admission look more honest if I touch my chest and you probably notice the feeling of like this looks a lot more genuine my eyebrows going up I'm kind of touching my chest making an admission and the moment that you start answering that I'm I'm I'm nailing down what you're allowed to do with me in the future so I'm I'm removing the possib ility that you're going to be more holding back I'm not completely eliminating it but I'm lessening that likelihood so every moment in a conversation is about crafting the likelihood of the behaviors that are going to follow yeah I I I'm really interested in the identity thing uh I will say like researching you uh the past couple weeks I've like that's been my biggest takeaway by far like that seems to be the root of most conflicts between people like uh essentially if you have an opinion that I disagree with it's more so I don't want to have the identity of the person that would agree with that opinion and that's where we see like this uh like bifurcation of politics like between liberals and conservatives it's more so that people want to identify with that side of the aisle more so than actually live out what that opinion looks like um I guess what I want to ask you about utilizing the Identity or just in terms of getting what you want out of a conversation say this podcast for instance I I might have to uh cut it a bit short in a couple hours because I have a flight to make how would you kind of go about uh if you really wanted to be on here for like five hours with me like how would you steer the conversation in a way without like any sort of bribe or anything to make that happen yeah so let's start from the me being the parking lot like I was this morning so for reference like we're on the second floor of a building there's an outdoor staircase I'm standing out there and you kind of came out and said hey and that was like let's start with that so the moment I'm walking up the stairs I say I say the exact same intro say Jack I just watched a couple of your podcasts yesterday to get ready for this and I was just on the on the way over here I was watching this one with this other guy and I got to say man this is there are so many podcast hosts out there who just rush and rush to get something over with and it's it's kind of disgusting because it's like this mechanistic process where people just want to churn out content where they've got to do so they end the podcast early and they do all these things they don't really prioritize their guest and you do like it's amazing that I I go on so many podcasts and there's nobody that really prioritizes getting everything that they can from a guest and I really appreciate that you do that so it was framed as a compliment but you you've agreed that you are a certain type of person at this moment that would have at least got you 15 more minutes and that's just the beginning um and so right away that so I didn't get you to agree to an idea I got you to agree that you're a certain type of person and this is in the first 30 seconds uh influencing someone long term is more is not just like hey let me just keep hacking away at this identity there's ideas that come in there too and what I did there is called a negative dissociation so and this is part of the NCI the system that I teach you government and and people all over the world it's called NCI neurocognitive intelligence and one of the methods in there is called negative dissociation so I I don't want you to have a certain trait and so all I'll do is talk negatively about a certain group of people and how they have this trait right so let's let's say now we're inside uh I've already said that first thing to you and then I say like you know you've been doing podcasts a while you've got a million subscribers now on uh YouTube and I'm just amazed at how many douchebags there are out there hosting podcasts nowadays and I'm really excited to come here because every time I've sat with one of these people I've been on a lot of podcasts every time I sit down with one of these people it's like they have a clock ticking down and they have to just pay attention to the clock and it's almost like I'm sitting with a doctor who doesn't give a about me so now I've given you a scenario that that your brain has automatically got a relation to right so I've putting a picture in your head a negative one and it's just really mechanistic and I've seen so many of your shows and I it's good to be with somebody who is willing to stick around and like get the full story when they need to do that now that's identity again so you could keep going down a hill and if you keep doing it over and over using the same technique it's going to be very obvious and it's going to be like oh w why is he why does he keep saying this so from Identity I want to go to expectancy so if if you have confidence and you have authority you can create expectancy so priming is another the identity and then priming so priming is setting the stage every moment of a conversation we're getting the person's brain ready for the next thing that's going to happen and a lot of people are like I'm just going to read the script and then the sale is going to happen the sale happens like in starts at the first 5 Seconds right so the next one is priming I'm going to start putting in small seeds of thoughts in your head and to to discuss this like to understand the concept of priming they did uh and I'm no expert on this study or anything I'm going to probably butcher this they did the study where people were taking a word search puzzle and in the group they put these words in the puzzle that were in that were Loosely related to old age Florida wrinkle pain retirement all of this like there's probably 10 or 15 words in there I can't remember them all but just after taking just after being exposed to those words for a few minutes the speed that they exited the testing room and walked down the hallway was reduced by like somewhere near 30 40% so they started walking slower just because they were exposed to these words and if you have an outcome in mind the number one thing you need to do is prime that person to think of that outcome does that make sense yeah so we're none of these techniques work very well unless you have authority and you have confidence so when we're talking about these techniques these are language like we talked about it's the least least important thing and so right after that I would ask if you're on the clock and then how flexible you are and I would talk about time and how time can be flexible and I would I would mention how I changed my flight just a few days ago and it was really easy and it didn't really impact my trip very much just bringing these subjects up on a very regular basis there's a ton of techniques we could talk about if we have like a specific scenario anything or or interrogation if you want to but there are so many things that go back to non-verbal behavior and Authority that I would I feel like just talking about the Linguistics which we could all day long we could go way into Linguistics and how to use confusion and deliberately confuse somebody's brain and all of that kind of stuff but the base of that pyramid the base of whether or not I accomplish what I want to do is going to be a a result of do I have authority do I have uh enough confidence and and presence to get that thing done and if if you want to we can break down the Linguistics or the authority I'll let you choose where you want to go Linguistics okay so let's talk about um how Linguistics work in the brain we we don't have an evolutionary part of our brain for language we have these two things in our brain called the brokas area and the Wares area where we kind of process linguage when it comes to Linguistics the first thing that you want to be aware of is how we're directing that person's attention so can I capture a person's Focus and can I lead a person's Focus if I'm speaking in a way that is not direct and doesn't capture Focus then I'm already losing persuasion you could read all these cool scripts all these cool books if you don't have the social skills to speak well and and really Captivate somebody's attention you're not going to do it so one of the most common that people learn when it comes to Linguistics is these statements that are called Milton statements or Salad statements or whatever but they they're kind of presumptive so a person can is a beginning of one of those I can insert anything I want after that and help your brain to start picturing it and imagining it so if I'm communicating in a way that is vivid then I'm painting pictures in your head which means that the mammal part of your brain can understand it if my words are not creating pictures in your head and I'm not interesting enough or I'm not generating enough Focus then I don't translate what I'm saying into the mamalian brain so a person can let's say I want you to forget about the time and you could just put that into a sentence and I want I want to kind of start injecting these thoughts into your head earlier on without you knowing that it's happening I would say some some kind of phrase where I could inject that into a sentence so a person can so let's say I was uh I walk in here we're talking I talk about you were asking me about the you know the Joe Rogan podcast and I was like yeah man it's amazing how fast a person can complete completely lose track of time or I could say it's amazing how it's so easy to just completely forget about the time for a few hours so what I did was I inserted a small pause before I told you what I wanted you to do U and you could ask me anything so let's say I wanted you to extend the podcast a few hours or cancel your flight or whatever which we can't do because I've got an appointment a little bit later but I want to insert those phrases and if I say completely forget about about the time let's say that that's what I want you to do completely forget about the time as I'm talking I'm saying like M just name any random subject and I'll show you exactly how you can weave it into any conversation any subject you want technology all right and I was in Best Buy the other day looking at these laptops and they're making so many of these advances and they have so many things that you can look at it's amazing how easy it is to completely lose track of time makes sense so far mhm okay okay um and now to get you to want to have the podcast with me longer we'll we'll cover another technique and and you can this is called embedded commands that a lot of you can look it up anywhere on the internet so that before we move to this next technique is the rules of the this embedded command technique where you're hiding language inside of language is I'm going to pause before and after and the command itself like what I'm injecting or hiding into my language has to be able to stand alone as a sentence so for example I can't say let's say I want you to I want to get you to relax that's it a lot of people would say yeah it was a really completely relaxing Journey completely relaxing is not a sentence completely relax is a sentence it's a statement of telling someone to do something so that's the difference and the biggest mistake most people make is that they don't pause and they're using ing words when they should be using direct commands and ideally if if you get more advanced at this you should be able to clip the sound bite of someone saying the hidden part and it should sound like they're speaking an independent sentence that make sense so it should be a command hidden within it and then uh we get into like ambiguities uh so let's dive into ambiguities and then gestures and how can can play into this um so give me something you would want someone to feel like uh let's go into connection okay so give me any random scenario and I will show you how we can in inject language into that scenario using this phrase of uh feeling connected um you go to Starbucks and order with your Barista yeah okay and what are we talking about give me any topic and I'll show you how easy it is to weave into anything just on the fly like what new coffee they have at Starbucks okay yeah um so the first thing I'll Pro I'm my time is limited with this Barista so the first thing is I want to establish her Focus so I'm going to do one small thing and I'm going to say something like you know it's absolutely fascinating and very covertly I'm pointing at myself as I'm saying the word fascinating to start off the sentence to try to associate myself with the word fascinating so I can just buy myself a tiny bit more Focus so that she'll bite onto the next sentence so when time is Super limited it's a lot more difficult but U we're at Starbucks we're talking about all the is it coffees that you said all the coffees yeah so there's so many coffees here to choose from and I remember watching this documentary about these coffee makers and it is incredible how much they take take care of each other it's a rare moment when somebody can feel completely connected to another person so did you hear that piece feel completely connected and if you cut the audio out of what I just said it sounds like I'm saying an independent sentence on top of that my hand as I was saying the word feel completely connected was going back and forth between you and I this make sense so far yeah I just I I want to comment that it feels very hypnotic uh and I've noticed that about your speech whole time and I know you're trained in hypnotism but spending time with Marcel it's just I I'm picking up on like I'm getting into trance just listening to you speak have people commented about that yeah yes but most of most of the time it's people who have listened to these MP3s that I have they're for free to make your confidence better to increase your uh mental well-being and all of that kind of stuff so they they're like going to sleep every night listening to my voice doing like very overt hypnosis like to get them to sleep and then I've noticed they come to like a a training session or something with me in person I've got a little mic on there's speakers in the room and I'll say just the word like sleep yeah i' almost felt it on that I was hoping that you wouldn't do it uh and like I've my first time I ever did it there was a guy who' been listening to me for like nine months straight every time he went to bed and I said that sww uh and he just just fell out fell out of his chair uh so I had to be really careful so let's add on to this technique a little bit so whatever we're talking about we can talk about picking out carpet and how someone can feel completely connected and I could be talking about an electrician coming to my house and fixing wires and it's amazing when that connection finally happens when he's putting these wires together but I'm saying the words independently and I'm saying them with this back and forth gesture as I'm talking about connection but now I want to say I want to hide the sentence uh feel completely connected now with me and I'm going to disguise that in speech have you ever heard this before it's pretty bizarre but I'm going to I'm going to be ambiguous about where the period is and where the comma is in these sentences so in essence I'm going to say the sentence like feel completely connected period now with me when I start exploring things but I'm I'm going to tie those together so give me another topic and I'll and I'll roll with it random toothbrush okay uh I always use my toothbrush and I cuz I remember this dentist I had when I was a kid he was the only guy that really genuinely cared about me he was the most kind person uh that I ever met and it's so rare when you can feel completely connected now with me the way I see it is we develop relationships differently especially as kids and then I'll just roll off on another sentence but if you clipped out what I said feel completely connected now with me and I isolated that in my speech makes sense so far um there was a thing back in the 90s where these guys would kind of come up with a lot of these ambiguities and stuff and they are powerful but they become powerful not not because someone uses them in isolation there you're not going to just say uh you're not going to sneak the phrase buy this Bugatti uh like into a paragraph and somebody's magically going to go spend a bazillion dollars on a car they have to be paired with confidence Authority and and Leadership and a a true belief in what you're saying and self-esteem and all of that if you use all these language techniques and you have crippling self-doubt and all of this stuff you have to work on that other stuff first a lot of people get wrapped around these little language techniques because it it gives you a placebo it's like oh I know it I know a trick now uh but they're not that effective unless you're using them in a really I would say a really confident way so to expand on the the language aspect of this so confidence is probably one of those things that's such a critical element and if we could dip into confidence really quick the number one mistake in my lifetime training the CEOs the intelligence folks all these people to develop confidence it has nothing to do with your standing o over anyone else it has nothing to do with other people the moment that you make it about how that like it how it deals with other people it's not confidence anymore it's hierarchy and those are two different things so people think about confidence and it's like oh I have to be more than other people the biggest mistake is comparing me to other people and that's that what I call hierarchical thinking and people make these mistakes because they view themselves as well if I'm confident I need to be above this person or they're scanning the room to see who's in charge who's subordinate and what's truly powerful about this and this sounds like it's a like a hippie bumper sticker but are you willing to get to a point where you treat everybody the same the you meet you go to meet a a business billionaire for a sales pitch or you're talking to your Uber driver and you're the exact same you have the same level of confidence because you're never thinking in hierarchy and status and As Americans especially living in the west we are programmed to see hierarchy and status and the two main goals of advertising number one is to make you compare yourself to other people number two is to make you think I am not enough so get that statement into your head the identity statement of I am not enough so we get programmed from such a young age with these commercials and advertising and now it's social media is just insane if you kind of back your way out of that hierarchical thinking and comparing yourself to other people you have the most transformative experience when it comes to confidence because confidence has nothing to do with anyone else it's not about anybody else it's about me it's about do I have confidence in this situation and the fastest way that I've ever seen to develop confidence and I have a a free hypnosis on our website you can download that's you can listen to it every night I have thousands of testimonials that has changed people's life but the fastest way to develop confidence is to develop a comfort with the possibility of social injury and that's just am I willing to be embarrassed am I willing to say something um that's on my mind that might might cause some judgment someone's going to judge me so that fear of judgment is also kind of hierarchical thinking like they are they're going to judge me which will put put me down so if your confidence is coming from how your environment is then you're going to always need something that which is not confidence at all at all so when we're talking about confidence it's selfconfidence not not environment confidence not Jack confidence Jack doesn't help me to feel confident um but we're we become no longer dependent on the environment or who we're around or what happen happened we just become comfortable with that injury and the second element is I develop this this mindset this world view of things are generally going to work out fine things are probably going to be okay and if I if I'm my genuine belief is and not just the thought that I have not like a Post-It note I put on my bathroom mirror and read as an affirmation every day but I developed this hardcore internal belief that things will work out pretty much okay number two is this fundamental worldview shift of I'm okay to receiving social injury and I'm not I'm never using hierarchy and status to look at the world ever again it is such a drastic change and you're it's exhausting living in the other reality where I'm I'm deeply concerned with the environment and I need things to be perfect for me to feel confident or to feel okay with with talking or saying something that's on my mind or being being vulnerable around another person so does confidence come from competence I don't think so at all if you watch um what is that movie Catch Me If You Can Have you seen it I think so I think I know what you're talking about it's a Leo DiCaprio playing a guy uh Frank abigil is his real name it's it's a true story where he like puts on this pilot outfit and starts flying free around the entire country um it's a fabulous movie and I don't know if you do like overlays when people are talking about stuff but a couple of these scenes like he's walking with all these uh flight attendants uh then he pretends to be a doctor Like a Surgeon then he pretends to be a lawyer so he kind of assumes all these identities he has zero competence zero uh but everyone believes him because he is so self assured he's not looking to other people for his confidence it's it's an internal thing and that's where the term con man came from it's confidence so their confidence was so high that it became contagious so I believe it so much that you start to believe it um and that's comment is kind of a bad bad way to compare these things and say that's where you need to be in life but you need to have the confidence where like this is not a big deal no matter what's happening it's not a big deal because you're you're world view is things are going to be fine everything's going to work out I'm open to being socially injured that that's just part of living as a human being on this planet and Define social injury social injury is Judgment most of the time okay judgment and the Judgment if I'm riant on the outside world causes shame and let me give you the third pathway of confidence here since we're just throwing random around um getting so forgiving of yourself and your own past that for anyone else looking at it you would be delusional or crazy like unlimited self- forgiveness and this sounds like some self-help but it's just like I don't care what anyone thinks about anything that I've ever done I am so self forgiving that everything is Forgiven that I've done and I don't accept any judgment from anybody else I'm radically delusionally forgiving about everything that I've ever done which kind of just helps to delete what keeps most people back and that's shame so I'm hiding shame I'm hiding guilt and I'm also concealing this fear of I might get judged by somebody and opening that up and just it sounds crazy but like we're training like Jason Bourne type of dudes and the best way that we can train them is like getting them to live with like an open heart and just wide open where I'm open to getting that social injury so if I can if I have that much confidence then these little language techniques and stuff that we're talking about are 10 times more powerful so a couple more techniques if you want to go back to them um are these gestures that I was talking about yeah so if I want something between you and I like I say the word connection or I say the word um if I'm talking to somebody that I want to date I might say the word attraction and go like this back and forth between us two I don't know if my hands in the camera or not but I'm I want to use my gestures on purpose instead of on accident is that maybe they have a 5% effect on how someone per perceives something but it's an effect there's some kind of effect going on and if I say something and I want it to be associated with me and I'm really trying to generate a lot of your focus I would say like you know it it's just I'm seeing so many of these things it's just a really fascinating when you get to the point where you discover something new and I'm just pointing at myself saying fascinating and so think of like the words that you would want to say if you wanted to kind of control another human being or like get to an outcome yeah um so let's go back to your example of of me wanting you to what was it like extend extend the podcast out for five hours right um let's say we're standing out there in the Green Room and we're getting ready to kind of come in here and record and I said Jack you know it's fascinating um it's amazing like so many people I was I was working with I was at this doctor's office the other day getting this brain scan done here while I'm in LA and it is just awesome that he was willing to just stop and spend extra time with me doing these brain scans and I would say that so I'm saying spend extra time with me and I'm pausing before I'm pausing afterwards to where if you clipped it out audio that would be its own statement it's fascinating it's kind of a cool Placebo but it's only a placebo of skill unless the confidence is there and you can back all that stuff up and there's so much you can do with language but it's only as good as how you're influencing the mamalian brain so if I have zero like imagine if a third grader came up to you and said that or you it would have no impact on you if a third grader came up to you and insulted you it would have no impact so there needs to be Authority present and Authority not over others but authority over self like I'm in control I'm not controlling and you know we you've probably seen me go through the five factors of authority and what makes Authority possible but we've proven in so many experiments that Authority matters more than any possible word that you will ever say in your lifetime like the milgrim experiment which is uh famous people got talked into killing another person or they thought they did in in under an hour and more and more we're discovering is I need to be more Caesar Milan and less Tony Robbins I need to think about controlling that mamalian brain and because that's what really makes the decisions if somebody thinks oh well the human the cortex is more advanced so it makes more decisions no it's not like you you can't hold your breath until you die your your Maman brain is going to take over and knock your ass out or going to make you just open your mouth and breathe again so that is the brain that makes a lot of our decisions from an emotional perspective and that's the where you establish someone's Focus you have authority and you say something that triggers this tribal response and emotion those are the four things that influence mammals Focus Authority Tri and emotion those four things on those four things um what are some habits that make people dislike you from a mamalian perspective or human I guess human yeah I think not being interested so most people focus too much on being interesting instead of being interested and that is the number one recipe the the second way that people will get into a point of not being liked by other people is I need to be on top so you'll say oh I went to this I went on this great vacation to uh Disney World I was like oh great yeah we just went to Rome actually and uh toured the entire Vatican got this backstage pass to the Vatican uh which I never have but and it's not I'm I'm not saying like you don't one up people obviously everyone should I hope know that but what I'm saying is if I'm doing this subconsciously every time this person wants to be seen as important or significant or to gain some kind of social acceptance I'm shutting them down and the three biggest social needs that people have are significance I need to feel significance I need to be accepted and I need some kind of approval like I need to be told I'm doing a good job or um some kind of recognition the moment that we see somebody exhibiting like I I see this person and they say I'm a CEO I've got four employees we've made $10 million last month and all of that I know for a fact that they thrive on significance so the moment that I say oh I have I just made $15 million last month and I did all this I'm taking away the exact thing that they need from other people in social interactions and it it makes us feel good but we're not really doing that for the other person and when you get to understand am I dealing with a person that is significance driven acceptance driven or approval and the moment I start taking that away I'm taking away not just how they feel I'm taking away neuropeptides because they get dopamine and other neuropeptides from that feeling so it's like a person knocking on a drug dealer's door and the drug dealer is like no go somewhere else but that's kind of what it is cuz we are there are chemicals and we're dealing in a in at a chemical level this person needs to be validated and made to feel significant made to feel like they're a part of a group made to feel like they have permission to do something made like complimented on and and told that they did a great job um and and just as a quick example the acceptance people are always going to be talking about groups and tribes they'll use pronouns like we way more often in their speech and their language and the approval people are always going to be saying things to get you to kind of tell them that they're okay tell them they're doing a good job they might say I'm going on uh this podcast tomorrow and I always suck every time I go on a podcast I always suck and people just don't like it is that what you oh no Jack it's okay you did a great job last time that uh that last podcast you did got 55,000 likes on the video and most of the comments were really positive so that would be like on the approval side so the biggest mistake that people make is not getting to a place where I understand what this person's social needs are and now I understand how to give them those social needs so if I I want to persuade a person and I know they're driven by significance I say you know what jacket you make a tremendous difference around here and I've met your team and everyone I've met that works with you really looks up to you and respects you that that would do work wonders for a person that has that social need because I ju I just say a few words and keep in mind that so many people view the world as like Harry Potter where they think there's some magic script out there where I'm just going to have this little spell and it's going to make somebody's Behavior change but this is as close as it gets right here understanding precise human needs and what they seek out in social interactions and it's going to be different for everybody and there's six needs that I typically teach it's not just the significance approval acceptance we also teach pity that some people are seeking pity a need to be seen as intelligent and a need to be seen as powerful or strong and you'll see these people that are more posturing and all that kind of stuff and if you understand how to complement those needs and how to give them the neuro they're not looking for you to say words they're looking for neuropeptides words are just the avenue to get the chemicals that they need from social interaction all we're doing by understanding what needs this person has is understanding how to trigger those chemical Pathways in a person's brain how do you deal with people that just have these super high egos that speak about all their Great accomplishments uh but when you compliment them they almost reject it and kind of uh like don't want to hear compliments but they also don't want you to like add on to their compliment it seems to be like fairly common thing I've noticed with hypers successful guys uh I think there's a lot of people that have the egos around all of their accomplishments they want to appear humble uh but they may not be humble and I think the best way to deal with that is to ask them that exact piece of advice so give me an example of a person that uh says something like I went to Oxford or something like that so I guess like I have an IQ of 180 wow so you having an IQ this high do you mind just want to ask you a question really quick because I've been struggling with this for a while you kind of probably see conversations in different levels than most people do and notice that I'm not looking at you while I'm asking this question so I'm not putting social pressure on you looking away do you probably see a lot of these conversations in like different levels than most people and I've been struggling with and then you just asked exactly what you asked me and when they give you advice they're agreeing not to be that person I get it so it goes back to the original thing of you're giving them the identity of not that person yes okay but you're asking their advice and so the moment that they start uh telling you something that they're proud of these little accomplishment ego is what I call that uh accomplishment driven ego they you take exactly what they say and you want to do this as early as possible in that interaction so the moment give me another one that you might hear from somebody I just leftt with seven women this week okay that's a lot and I've got to I've got to ask you one question because I mean to sleep with that many women you've got to have some social skills that most people don't have could I borrow your advice for like 30 seconds and then right away I'm going to say all right so every once in a while I'll have these people and I I don't know how to say it but they have this and then I'll go right into that exact same question they have this ego they want to they won't take compliments and all of this stuff how do I deal with those people you act you identify that person they start do doing these things you use what they say about themselves to say this is why you're perfect to answer this question and the moment because they're going to give you advice it's might be shitty it's going to be horrible advice but they're making that subconscious agreement that I am not that person the moment they give you advice they're saying here's how to deal with those people and there it becomes not them you're not permanently changing their identity once they go to a another party or something the same night they're going to go back to being ego- driven but you're changing the results you're going to get in that situation and maybe over time you're changing the results they're going to get with you they'll be a different person with you it's fascinating um on the habits of people um making people dislike you is there anything like instantaneous like body language wise that you think of um direct facing so like facing someone head on like a 180 direct facing someone and this other thing that we call proxemic is like within the first five minutes of interaction you're not supposed to invade like the 26 inch mark but if you and I were 26 let's say we're 26 in away from each other um and we're both facing that wall of the podcast Studio we're it's fine but at 26 in and we both turn into each other and like face each other now it's weird so proximity and what's called ventral orientation which is where we're how we're facing our bodies um those are the two fastest ways because you're setting off all of those mamalian brain alarms and saying something is something's off here I need to protect myself the fastest other way to do this is to automatically start using a tone of voice that's different than that person than inappropriate for the social setting so way too loud or way too soft and that makes people automatically think something is different about this person so they're not part of this tribe because even if we're in a bar that bar the people that are drinking that we don't even know are part of our tribe cuz we're all acting the same we're all drinking the same we're all kind of have all of these things in common so they become like a little micro tribe in the human brain then somebody starts acting differently from that tribe and I interact with them let's say it's you you come up to a table and like you're acting funny or doing something different than the rest of the tribe is doing the moment that I start interacting with you I become another Outcast I'm associating with someone who's not conforming to the tribes agreed upon behavior when is the right time to mirror someone's body language let's talk about this um so when the mirroring stuff came out it was a bunch of like Behavior nerd virgins probably who would take a legal pad out with them to a bar and they would watch people interact in a bar so over time they started making all these notes and they saw oh when people like each other they're going to start mirroring each other's behaviors so what that means is mirroring is a symptom of people liking each other right and this started our national Obsession this one thing especially in Psychology it started this National obsession with symptoms because if you like if you go on LinkedIn or YouTube or Google right now and type in how to how to be confident what are you going to see you're going to see all these articles like 17 ways to command respect like a CEO 25 ways to have confident body language for your next sales pitch and what did the article say you click on it open it up uh really good posture yeah large gestures speaking with certainty making solid eye contact with someone using their name really often a firm handshake touch them on the shoulder every once in a while those are symptoms of confidence so our our country gets I don't know why if you look at our health care System we're obsessed with symptoms and not causes if you look at like how to be more uh mindful during the day they give you a bunch of symptoms of a mindful people but not the cause of mindfulness there's so many things out there that are and this only occurred to me like 5 years ago after I retired from the military they're all like sympt focused and what I call cause blind so when back to this question that you asked me I thought it was a huge tangent but these these dudes are sitting in this bar writing all this stuff down me mirroring your behavior it won't make you like me I I it's a symptom of us liking each other so mirroring happens after the liking what are some other things people do when they are uh when they start to develop trust with each other other they get close they get closer to each other they're more comfortable with physical contact uh what else what can you think of they face more in their feet Point toward each other uh so let's say you walk up and within the first couple minutes of an interaction you face someone directly you get really close to them and you start touching their arm and hand they're they're just symptoms um and we we like somebody based on this little grocery list that's in our our mamalian brain mirroring can be good in some situations but it's not just a universal thing the best thing to mirror is like if a person's relaxed I'll be relaxed if they're attentive and focused I'll be attentive and focused I want to mirror the mammal not this not the body like where are they mentally and like we you and I aren't mirroring each other really exactly at all but we have very similar emotional body language like we're relaxed we're having a conversation that is far more important than like am I going to cross my ankle over like that so Jack will like me and it doesn't really like even if I did this right now that's not making a difference in your psychology you can't feel any difference of listening to me now versus when I had my legs crossed the other way but it is more of a difference if I'm um kind of matching you emotionally and we kind of have that going on so if if we're mismatched emotionally and cognitively that's where you want to do the the the work we need to get that out to a match first so like matching the the a person's body language is not going to give you I don't think hardly any advantage whatsoever like if you've got all your figured out you're a persuasion expert you have unlimited Unstoppable confidence you've learned all these Linguistics then mirroring might give you a little bit of an edge maybe like a one to 2% Edge interesting that's so fun people often refer to that as like the main thing to uh I'll tell you what part of Seduction yeah it's it's because I can teach you a technique that gives you a placebo of having developed some kind of skill and it's something you can go out and do easily but it's hard to get any results from it because you need so much other stuff to get results from other people the mirroring was never a huge part of that in my opinion and I've studied this for 30 40,000 hours I've crossed the 10,000 hour mark a long time ago and I'll give you another example of one of these things like the Linguistics I talked about that's kind of a light level it's not doing heavy lifting like even no it sounds cool though like I learned this thing on a podcast where like you point at yourself and you say the word fascinating that is not a heavy lifting technique but it makes you feel feel like oh you know I've got this I've got this little thing that I can take out and use me telling you to like be more Mindful and fix your be radically self-forgiving get to a point of confidence go do a psychedelic Journey or something obviously after you talk to a doctor I'm not a doctor I'm not giving anybody advice but like step out of all of these things that are holding you back and you will live you will enjoy a planet that most people don't really live on they're in a different reality most people they're living way behind their eyes in conversations and that that has it's profound like if you just look at what what we've been talking about this whole time getting yourself to a point of composure and confidence is 99% of the heavy lifting maybe 95 and the other 5% is cool tricks that we can throw on top of it um but the the one thing that I teach is this thing called the failure triangle you can look at any situation that involves human beings and look at there's one of three reasons it fails uh I failed to observe like I didn't read the room I didn't read the person or I didn't understand that person's needs well enough I failed to communicate and this is I failed to say the right words I failed to pitch it correctly I didn't trigger that person's social needs I didn't understand who I was talking to and say the right words and communicate the right way or maybe I just talk in a freaking boring way I'm just boring and the third one is self-mastery so it's observation communication and self-mastery so let's say my observation was great my communication was great but I have no Mastery over myself I put a suit on I put a sharp tie on went out and got a manicure and a haircut and all this other stuff and back home I've got a 15t pile of laundry that I haven't done my sink's full of my bathroom counters covered in crap all all over the place but I'm pretending like in this sales pitch that I'm that I have my together there's part of our brain that reads those gut feelings like we talked about and that that the other person says you know what he everything sounded great but something was off something didn't feel right about this situation the the heaviest lifting thing is the self-mastery part where we kind of get and it's people don't want to hear it they want no no no Give me the give me the little cool technique give me the script uh but it's like I can give you the best script in the world you got to be the right person who can read it it that's what it comes down to I give you a flight checklist for an airplane it does not make you a pilot I guess uh just spending a bit of time with me I how could I the original question was how could I use mirroring to get better responses from guest but uh given that it's a bit irrelevant what could I do to uh what kinds of questions what kinds of behaviors would give me the most useful personal information from people statements not questions so what I mean by that is somebody says um XXX is the answer to all these things and you pretty much sum it up you say so or so basically XXX and you kind of deliver the summary and they're going to start adding on and then you throw another statement out there after they add on to be like wait is that I don't know if I believe that is that is that really is I don't know if that's possible for someone to do that much then you're going to get a long statement out there because that's disbelief right and you're not saying you don't believe the person be like wow you might they might give you a fact you say something like oh my God that's hard to believe that that's even real that's amazing I didn't ask any questions and they're going to start responding they're be like yeah and actually they'll keep going down on the data and then you do another provocative statement that is maybe triggering a need to correct the record so let's say give me a topic we're talking about like look pretend you're a guest for one second I'll I'll be Jack yeah uh chocolate ice cream is worse than vanilla ice cream wow so I and you're the expert in ice cream is that right I mean I studied ice cream for 45 years okay so I'm not sure where I read it but I've read that 90% of people like vanilla over chocolate where did you read I can't remember where I read it but I thought like in my life I would would have sworn that more people like vanilla okay and then it would be something along the lines and will research shows this and this and this and this and I just feel the need to correct it automatically yeah so then you say oh research shows this this and this and I I might say that is absolutely fascinating then they say yeah because it it goes back this this this and there's more elicitation statements so because you want to prove that something is more fascinating perhaps and then you prove that it's more fascinating then I say so essentially these guys all came together just to do this one study on chocolate versus vanilla ice cream and they going yeah and even in 1973 you're adding some more data in there so the more sensitive the information you want to get from a person the more statements you should be using instead of questions and that's where like these provocative statements come in the triggering a need to correct the record um and this other thing called bracketing so if I want to get some kind of thing from you uh I'll I'll just say a statement that says a bracket of numbers or whatever but let's say we're doing the ice cream I would I would have a bracket saying so I would I guess I would imagine that like to get these results they must have studied thousands of people like probably between a thousand and 5,000 people were involved in this study they're like well actually so that's me showing a a range of numbers and it doesn't matter like if the range is off if and in fact if the range is off they'll be like no no no it's way more than that then they so it's bracketing and triggering a need to correct the record at the exact same time this is a technique the Soviets used uh in all throughout the Cold War to obtain secrets from United States Navy and it was invent well invented discovered I guess by this guy named uh John Nolan and he wrote a book called confidential that you can't even get anymore uh even on eBay I don't think it talks about this called elicitation so it makes your brain feel like you're not being really questioned over and over and over again so no matter what I say like I'm talking right now about elicitation and all you do is kind of Nod and be like that's fascinating I bet I bet a lot of different countries use this so that's a provocative statement that starts with I bet right and then I start talking about all like yeah the Russians use this in the Cold War to get secrets about our submarines and then you just do a word repetition so sub Marines and then I go yeah the size of these propellers how how fast they could go how deep they could go how covert they would go then you'd say another provocative statement these submarines go really deep I would imagine the Russians probably got a lot of Secrets from us there's no questions yet I'm like oh my God yeah they got this size of our propeller they could figure out how close we could be to launch these nuclear missiles then you say which is amazing because they needed that data for X Y and Z so it's just a lot of statement responses and I'm not saying 100% of your podcast needs to be statement based but so in this case the words are more effective than the actual like confidence and emotions behind them yes and that what you just did was a provocative statement fast learner I need to implement it more but I I guess just um what's the effective time to use questions like does it make people feel more comfortable to ask a question or does it actually like have some sort of discomfort if you're leading into something that um might be sensitive or might that person might not usually give to everybody that's where you want pepper in like 90% statement 10% questions if you want a person's mamalian brain to get an idea you have to paint a picture vivid enough with sensory Rich information that allows their Mamon brain to get it so the Mamon brain does not speak English in any way it doesn't understand language but once the human brain understands something where it can form a bunch of pictures and images that translates down to the mamalian side of the brain does that make sense so let's say I wanted to get you to kind of mentally get a imagery in your Mamon brain of like letting go I might talk about something that vividly paints that picture so I might say something like Jack I when I've a little stressed when I got off the plane and I booked this uh my assistant actually booked me with this massage therapist who's like famous around the country became to the hotel room and I've never felt that degree of relaxation before like all the tension in your body just being completely erased like your shoulders just drop everything falls like even the skin on your face starts to relax you didn't know that you carried tension in your skin and your scalp and you didn't even realize how easy it was to just kind of fully let go into an experience that was very hypnotic your breathing rate slowed by about three breaths per minute you'll have that on camera if you want to look at it and all I'm doing is I'm painting a picture first and then I'm describing sensory experiences of about something else but if I sat here and I said Jack I want you to picture your skin relaxing that's weird right like we're in a conversation that's weird but if I'm talking about me I can say the same words to get your brain to associate all of those feelings and you cannot mentally pay attention to a story like the one I just said without kind of going into what that feels like and what that might feel like and if it's novel and unique and a person hasn't really thought about it before you'll get them to bite on a lot more so like you have never probably pictured the sensation of the skin on your scalp relaxing until just when I said it a second ago you're like wow you can kind of relax that skin a little bit so if it's novel so it's it's a new piece of information that they kind of haven't pictured before it's interesting it's sensory rich and it paints a picture then I'm Translating that into the mamalian brain so whatever I want somebody to mentally experience if I speak it in that way I'm I can translate that into the mamalian brain which means I'm getting the body to uh adopt or I'm getting the brain to develop the image that I want it to to see and this sensory experience is effective with emotions you want to experience or is it effective with any kind of emotion like a stressor say yeah so like if you wanted to stress someone out you could explain in detail the process of feeling like the stress in the pit of your stomach your shoulders tightening up you could you could go in any direction that you wanted to go for sure what would that uh sound like for the stress yeah um you describe uh some scenario where you became stressed out and you didn't realize it like I didn't realize how stressed I was about let's say I'm coming on your podcast right and let's say I'm I get really nervous on on podcasts and I said you know Jack I was just sitting in my hotel room last night and I just I didn't didn't even realize that I was stressed until I like paid a little bit of attention to my body and I realized like my shoulders were getting Tighter and Tighter and Tighter and my breathing was getting into this really shallow spot I was clenching my jaw and you I'm sure you've had that feeling before like your stress is just kind of overtaking your body so now I've translate I've changed it from me talking about me to you and that's me talking about you directly which allows you to kind of resist it and say I know I don't I don't think I've had that for but if I translate it to the general you then I can say the word you without talking about you directly and I'll give you an example of that I'd rather do it about something positive but um it was you know it was in my hotel room last night just thinking about this and I just notice all this tension and you know when like your body starts tightening up and your jaw's clenching and you don't really know why all of this is happening and everything just gets tighter and more resistant it's like your muscles and your skin just turn into this armor so I'm saying you all of this time but I'm not directly talking about you it's the general you but I started with I so I did this I did this and you know when you have that feeling of blank so I'm changing my language to shift from I to talking about you and that's called an IU shift or the fancy name for that is a shift of referential index and this is useful in uh just day-to-day conversations and I'm guessing it' be particularly useful in interrogations yeah and if you could imagine like if the number one currency in Persuasion influence human behavior leadership Fillin the blank whatever you you're doing with other humans your number one currency is focus so if I wanted to develop focusing you really quick uh I would talk about how fascinating watching a podcast was or reading a book was or whatever and I would vividly talk about the process of the volume getting turned down on everything around you and how much all of your focus can just zoom in on one thing when you know that something's important to you so I I narrowed in your focus with my hands and then I said when something is important to you and I casually kind of pointed to myself so vividly describing the process of focus happening getting absorbed in something and everything else kind of fading away way to where it's just one thing has all of your attention and all of your awareness and that's the most important thing for you it's really fascinating that every time you say Focus I would imagine uh that the viewers probably watch the podcast a bit longer um so see the drop off how did uh how does this apply in interrogations and uh I guess generally when you're interrogating someone torture is more effective than kindness right it's the opposite really yes proven time and time again proven and this started in World War II with a Nazi interrogator a German interrogator his name was Hans sharf every interrogation system that's taught that I'm aware of in the world uh is a derivative of the work of Hans sharf he was the first guy that said Hey what if we're not total dicks to these people what if we're not just P ass PS to these guys all the time what if we take them out of their cell take them on a walk around the park give them a little better food give them Advil when they need it you know blah blah blah and it turned out that he got better results than so many other guys combined uh he was getting intelligence from these people and he had a few basic tenants um being kind pretending like you know everything so every single thing they say every piece of intelligence they provide yeah we knew that already that's not a big deal and a few other methods that we can get into but the kindness part is so much more effective because if you think of maso's hierarchy of needs and I'm imagining that like popping up on the YouTube screen for for you at home right now if I'm a dick to you and I'm torturing you I'm injecting you with stuff all the time I'm pushing you down to that lower level of survival and and safety um once you're there are you you're only worried about you um which means that if you're providing intelligence and all this stuff you're just going to make stuff up to survive so when people are getting tortured they're at the bottom of Ma's pyramid and they will just do everything possible even giving massive amounts of false information just to keep themselves alive and prevent the pain from happening does that make sense and in reality when it when we're talking about like criminal uh interrogation there are there are five big things that you want to hit for an interrogation so you want to socialize minimize rationalize project and ask an alternative question so give me a crime uh and you can make up whatever you want and I will make up a monologue is what we call that and that's when you're in an interrogation I ask you a couple of questions there's like two or three questions that are absolutely brilliant at uncovering whether somebody is likely guilty or likely innocent if we you want to go through those first sure yeah uh so number one let's say or I I guess we could say the crime first um so if I stole $5,000 from a 7-Eleven okay so number one and this is called the bait question um so let's say I'm the police officer coming in here the first thing I'm going to do is separate myself from the authori figures so I'm not going to come in with a uniform I'm going to come in in civilian clothes I'm I'm going to try not to have a gun on me unless my department requires the the gun to be on my belt in the interrogation room which is a a horrible horrible policy you should never allow Firearms into an interrogation room so when I walk in I'm going to separate myself from the police outside I say hey I came in here these guys are you know running this investigation and stuff and uh we're just going to get started I'm actually just waiting on some paperwork if you wouldn't mind just uh it probably won't be very long so during this little period And I learned this from Scott Rouse who's an interrogator also on the behavior panel this little pretend period of waiting for papers is all fake it's made so we are mandated to sit here together and I can start doing whatever I want I can ask where you're from I can ask these kind of basic questions and stuff then uh they're going to bring these papers in and we'll start doing some little conversation but then I'll drop in this question and I'll say and I'll I'll just say this to you as if I were in in the interrogation room so you can hear the tone of my voice and all this I'd say Jack uh today's my day off and I I think the same reason I came in here is because is I think you're a good person so I I just want to say this to you which I don't really say to many people but I I'm just going to ask you a question I want you to think very very hard um before you answer I want you to really consider the question before you give me an answer is there any reason whatsoever that a video camera in that 7-Eleven uh would have you at that seven at that store yes okay so I'll place you at the scene right but at the at the beginning if I go were you at that 7-Eleven You' be like nope doz it impli something else yeah it's like were you there that day at this time yeah and you can deny that and I also didn't say that there's a video so it's not I'm not lying to you I'm not saying there is a video and if you just kind of go to the let's go to the OJ Simpson case if you asked OJ like were you at Nicole's house last night you'd be like no so he drove his Bronco to that house right mhm so in the OJ case you would say OJ is there any reason any reason at all and please keep in mind those guys are out there investigating this stuff and they are like pounding the ground there's like 400 officers we have working on this case right now and I want you to think carefully before you answer this is there any reason at all that one of the neighbors or a couple of the neighbors would say that they saw your vehicle outside of Nicole's house last night now I've nailed you as you know that if you say no then there's potentially multiple eyewitnesses who saw you and now you're from the very beginning you're lying and who you're only lying if you're guilty right so that question is so powerful and it it's just is there any reason XYZ would exist your fingerprints would show up there would be DNA there sometimes there's DNA that gets that travels around all the time so is there any reason we might find some DNA on that thing so the second piece of this is called the punishment question and the punishment question is great because it really differentiates between guilty and innocent people pretty fast uh and the punishment question is let's let's say that you're kind of denying taking the 10 grand from the 7-Eleven I would say like well we know that 10 grand was stolen what do you think should happen to the person that that steals 10 grand from a store and that makes you considerate cuz now you're going to have to tell me the person who might be locking you up what you what you're going to get as a sentence right so people are going to be a lot more lenient and even in interviews with um predators of people under the age of 18 I don't know what YouTube blocks but I'll just say it that way you ask them like what do you think should happen to the person who did this and you'll get answers legitimate answers from these people that say like well the person's sick they have a they have a mental problem and they definitely need some kind of counseling some kind of therapy and help but they're they're sick probably not jail time but they should definitely offer yes yeah like a a written apology to the family they should definitely do that but they're sick the person's sick and they're they definitely need some kind of help nobody nobody would say that about a person who hurts a kid like death penalty or something nobody would say that no rational person and I mean I've I've done this to my kids when my kids were like six or seven i' went home you've probably heard me say this if you've watched a podcast or two of mine but they there was a thing of milk spilled on the living room floor and I asked them who did it they were both like I don't know just just appeared there so I asked my daughter what do you think should happen to the person who did this and she go right away she goes spankin grounded no Xbox can't play outside can't join my friends have to stay in the room and read all that okay okay then I went to my son I said will uh what should happen to the person that spilled that milk and he goes uh no more chocolate milk in the living room so it works equally on adults and and kids so then we move into let's say I've asked all these there's like 10 questions we ask to see if someone's probably guilty or probably innocent then we that's an interview and the moment that we get through those 10 questions and I think okay Jack probably did this now we transition into interrogation that so that's the difference interviews let's find out what happened interrogation is this person might be the one I'm looking for at this phase of the interrogation there's a whole lot that we we're not covering but we get to this part called the monologue and the monologue is designed to offload and if anybody's in sales or anybody listening is in any kind of persuasion job this can be repurposed for anything and it is massively powerful minimize rationalize project alternative question okay so let's break it down one thing at a time and I want you just to imagine hearing this all as one long monologue but I'm going to give you paragraph headers for everything I'm going to say and you want to go with the 71 10 10 grand is missing so first step is socialize I want to say Jack I got to be honest with you I think once people see what happened and they see all these circumstances that I think everybody is going to understand why this happened and I think it's going to make sense for anybody who hears your story it's going to make perfect sense minimize and this is $10,000 I deal with murderers I deal with rapists I deal with horrible human beings day in and day out and when I heard this story I knew that you're most likely a really good person and this is not a big deal people walk out of this you're going to walk out of here in a little bit this we can absolutely get through this I I see bad stuff all the time this is not a bad thing that's minimize rationalize and if you just look at your life I think people are going to understand cuz anybody in your shoes would have done the same thing and it makes perfect sense because they left the safe open or they didn't pay you enough or your your boss is just a dick and he was kind of begging you to do this they left the safe unlocked or they left the keys with you overnight and now it's um project and I personally believe that you're a good person I don't think this is your fault I think anybody in the same circumstances we get circumstances in our life and so when those circumstances line up it's easy for us to make an error make a mistake and I think that you did make a mistake and I have to be honest with you um in this folder right here we're tracking three different groups that are involved with human trafficking and they are making people steal money and I know that your aunt is going through chemotherapy right now and I know she's uh suffering a a great deal and that's very expensive what I need to know Jack is if you're involved with this human trafficking scheme right here this is a big deal and we need to talk about that but if you've made a mistake and you're a good person I think you were trying to help your aunt pay for those chemotherapy bills and I think you did the right thing but if you're involved with this this this is a whole another story if you just made a mistake and this is a one-time thing that's all different and we can get over that I'm not here to arrest you I'm not here to get you in trouble in any way I'm not here to prosecute you so that's the alternative question at the end was it this big nasty horrible thing or did you just make a mistake and then at you'll see a little bit of he hesitation in most people and some people they'll you'll hear them say what happens if I say that I did it and you say I can't make you any promises but can promise you that people are going to understand and you kind of just start the monologue over again and go back but I really need to understand if this is going to human trafficking or you maybe trying to help one of your family members and if it is all I need from you is one thing you don't have to say anything but what I really need from you is a written statement that says you understand that this was wrong and you make a solemn promise to me right now that you won't do it again and in a guilty person's mind that sounds like wow I'm can go if I do this but that's a confession that I've just got you to write down so and that's one of the most common tricks in police interrogation is I just want you to say that you understand that it's wrong and you promise that you will not ever do it again and you promise that you'll never do it again in front of a judge you say okay that's it and when I say I'm not going to arrest you I'm not going to prosecute you I'm not that's the guy standing outside the room he's going to do that I'm just the interrogator so it is honest and it is uh forthcoming uh and it alleviates all of the pressures and all of the reasons that somebody might have against a confession what are people going to think this is a huge deal it's all my fault I'm this is uh going to go over really badly and this is U something I had control over and I and I shouldn't have done so you're taking all of that off of their plate by saying someone else fault not a big deal people are going to understand and it makes anybody in your shoes would have done the exact same thing that you did and you're kind of Smashing that all in one big paragraph It's fascinating how effective that could be like the whole priming it feels a bit similar to sales uh like how I ticket sales calls have gone in my experience uh but I guess the part I'm curious about is it's only effective if the person is guilty or have you ever seen or heard of cases where people utilize those types of methods to get a false confession of someone you can totally get a false confession using that um and it's when you misuse those techniques or the moment that an interrogator is more concerned with a confession than the truth you're in dangerous dangerous territory and that is not an ethical person every interrogator should be truth first confession from the truth absolutely but if they're convinced a th% this person did it and they're saying things like you're not going to leave this room until we get the full story you're not going to leave this room until I hear why you did this I just want to know why um so I'm not asking you to confess to the crown I just want to know why you did it um and you'll hear so much of that kind of over and over and over again depriving them of food for a prolonged period maybe getting them sleep deprived and there are studies published that sleep deprivation drastically increases suggestibility and you can implant memories and thoughts into people's heads and that's been proven so at the end of the day the false confession is not about technique it's about the person using it so a scalpel can hurt someone or save someone's life and it's all about the intent of the person using it so if you have somebody that's low Integrity or low education like they haven't been taught how to avoid a false confession and they've a a lot of cops out there do not get training in interrogation or anything advanced in interrogation and I train police departments in interrogation and I'm not going to say any Department names but I would say 50 to 70% of cops have no interrogation training so the way that they know how to do an interrogation is from what they saw on TV from Law and Order and and shows like that when training these people the instructions you would give theoretically to get the truth uh would be the same instructions you would give to get a false confession no very different there's a whole list of things that make false confessions happen and when I say false confession I just want to clarify that I mean like you I are trying to I guess get another scapegoat or a crime committed um like some conspiracy stuff like you want someone to be innocent and you want some random person to be guilty yeah yeah you could use similar techniques but you're going to need to do some unethical things you cannot accidentally get a false confession if you're going for the truth if your priority is getting the truth you I don't think you could be led into a false confession cuz they'd start saying stuff about the crime and like I've seen false confessions where the person says they used a 22 caliber gun and it was a 9mm that killed somebody and the police coerced them into saying no no no go back in your memory again do you remember that 9mm you remember those 9 mimet shell casings you remember pushing those down into that magazine so the moment a person remembers something inaccurate about the crime that's that's a massive red flag that they that they've been uh manipulated the the problem is that the person spotting the red flag is the person that created the red flag most of the time I guess you can't speak of uh specific instances but uh in your studies what's the cia's most disturbing experiment to me um they had a experiment that they did in Canada and I am never so so many times people are like oh well you must know all about this MK alter project and names and dates and locations I'm not a historian I don't give a about 99% of MK Ultra I I care about the techniques and the methods and the protocols and stuff that were a result of MK Ultra I'm not like let me go fact check and get everybody's name right and dates I don't have any of that because it was never important to me but they did this thing in Canada and uh I can't remember the guy's name but they took people coming in for just normal appointments like I have postpartum depression or I have anxiety and they would like they would against their will uh do this thing called psychic driving had nothing to do with being psychic it just meant psychic of the mind and they would give them massive prolonged doses of LSD and in some cases tape their eyes open like Clockwork Orange and and play these videos in front of their face all the time they thought it was going to like reprogram their brain somehow but what happened was a lot of the people had uh had to learn how to walk again uh they couldn't control their bladder they had to learn how to control their urine and stuff like that again some of them lost 30 40 years of memories from their life and these were people who checked into a clinic for like anxiety and this was a fun by MK Ultra and it was in Canada and it's so well known and it's so open that even the Canadian government paid the people's families who were who just got wrecked because of this thing and the other thing they did um and there's so much mind Warfare stuff that we could go into but they did this thing called project midnight climax in a brothel and these Johns would come and like they're like well I want to spend the night with this hooker they take them up the hooker take them up to a hotel room they drug these dudes with high doses of LSD and there are mirrors in these hotel rooms with dudes watching like behind a mirror in the hotel room there's scientists watching this stuff and watching uh what takes place that is the most bizarre and weird thing I've ever ever even heard of they could experiment with LSD on a lot of people then they they did it with soldiers and the British royal Air Force did this with uh or British Army did this with LSD and LSD was just like the Rave of the time because the CIA thought it might be this miracle mind control drug because these videos were coming back from the Korean War of these Americans getting brainwashed and stuff so they're like there is something happening to these Americans that we don't have the technology to do so it was a it was a psychological arms race or so we thought it was it was just basic stuff it was like very basic brainwashing stuff what were the results of that midnight uh nobody knows no nobody knows yeah I think it was just studying the uh effects of LSD and the effects of what they call interrogative suggestibility so can I make you confess to stuff can I get intelligence out of you if you're a captured asset of some kind and I don't think they they publish anything out afterwards like some after Action Report or anything it was an interesting time period uh I won't go into this too much but have you did you know they were testing like LSD and dolphins in the 70s and do you know why they had to stop doing that no it was because Robbie do you remember this yeah it was uh one of the female scientists uh was having sex with a dolphin named Peter uh and the dolphin end up like getting depressed because she was taken off the project and then he like took his own life and that's why they stopped running LSD on dolphins build itself yeah how I don't remember um holy smokes but yeah we covered this a while back it just made me think of that but um wow on hypnosis would you say you're one of the best hypnotherapist you've come across no idea I don't do therapy um I I don't know about I don't know a lot of other hypnotists I haven't tested their skill levels I have the number one bestselling book in hypnosis um for five years straight I think on and off what can you not hypnotize someone to do There's No Limit um can you hypnotize me right now yeah okay but uh anyone listening we have to do these legal disclaimers of if you're driving a car if you're operating Machinery you got to pause or turn the tape off or what not tape but uh stop the video they would have to do it let's go into the science of it first if you want to yeah and how it works so the first like seven eight years of our life our brains are spending most of their time in this brain wave state called Theta and Theta is kind of like a deep meditation and relaxation and it makes us way more ready to absorb data and absorb information and that's how we learn language so fast we learn to walk so fast and all these amazing insights are coming to to us as as little kids cuz we're in Theta state so much and hypnosis is a way that gets our brain back into that Theta brain wave state and it does it by a few ways we're relaxing the physiology of the body which is not always necessary but it definitely helps and when your body relaxes your and your brain is relaxed it releases this neurotransmitter called gamma which is gamma amuno butyric acid and it is the brain's calming down mechanism it's called an inhibitory neurotransmitter so it tells everybody to like hey let's let's calm it down don't need to worry about things it's the safety chemical is essentially what it is so if you're with a a hypnotist there is a way that they speak in a certain way that relaxes the body and relaxes the mind and then obtains a whole lot of focus and that's kind of what hypnosis is Theta wave brain State plus Focus plus a desire of or some expectation that something positive is going to happen and most hypnotists will tell you you can't be made to do something that you normally wouldn't do you can't you can't be made to do something against your will that's not true that is absolutely not true you can be made to do a lot so like I think it's important there was just a case in in Washington state where a hypnotist was or no he was an attorney have you heard about this m he was a lawyer and he had this female client who was going through I think think was going through a divorce and he would hypnotize her in his office to like say oh I'm going to help you relax I'm going to help you you know get rid of some of these negative beliefs and he was sexually assaulting her under hypnosis in his office and she was taking her clothes off and all this stuff um and I've heard a few hypnotists say well she she must have would have done that in her normal everyday life or she wouldn't have done that but I want you to understand that if I can change context I can get you to do anything it's like you're not thinking about killing me it's not something that you would think about doing but if you genuinely believed I was coming at you with a knife and you had a gun I've modified the context and now it's okay so your permission in your brain of like I can't kill this person I'm not thinking about it everything radically changes right so if I can if if this lawyer I don't know how he did it but this lawyer who's doing the sexual assault modifies the context and saying like well you're probably going to get naked today but not here in the studio but probably when you take a shower you're going to get naked so if I change I hypnotize you and then change the context to you just getting home from work and putting your keys on the entry table putting your wallet down there walking into the bathroom turning on that nice hot shower feeling that Steam and that then it's time to strip down and get in the shower it I didn't modify anything about what you normally do what you're doing against your will all I did was change context so if a person can change and manipulate context which we're seeing in politics right now if you look very closely everything that's going on with manipulation is about three things and it's PCP so I modify your perception which allows me to shift the context which changes permission perception context and permission everything is about that so always be on the lookout for how your perception is being modified because the next thing that they will change is the context the context enables you to do things that you would have never otherwise done like throwing a Molotov cocktail through a a a Target store window here in La so it's always perception context and then permission but the thing is like when something is extremely good and capable of helping people uh we might be able to use that same technology to do something bad and to hurt people um so it's kind of a double-edged sword and could you hypnotize me to murder someone absolutely and how long would that take 40 minutes and that's like you think anyone you could do or is it just because I'm slightly more susceptible so there would be time um let's talk about that unpack that a little bit so some of that is about suggestibility suggestibility is by so many psychologists and scientists referred to as this thing that's like a a solid state this person's highly suggestable this person's medium suggestable this person's low it is very much context dependent so your suggestibility is also a measure of my level of authority my confidence and what you think about me so we could take a a suggestible person and you say oh I'm prone to go into hypnosis so I go into easily well what if a third grader did it it's context right so your suggestibility is based on context again context so if I have a lower suggestible person I need to modify that person's level of suggestibility like their level of trust their level of openness their level of focus on the conversation and their level of expectancy do I expect something generally positive to come from this I'm going to make myself more suggestable because I'm getting more excited about the outcome that going to come from the hypnosis that make sense yeah okay so those are the six thing the six factors that determine success with hypnosis Focus openness connection suggestibility compliance and expectancy those six things and you only need three of those to make a murderer just three if you look at the milgrim experiment there was no openness there was no connection and there was no expectancy they had no idea what was happening next what was going to come next they just had uh focus suggestibility and compliance and they made murderers in less than an hour and they did it with no hypnosis zero hypnosis no techniques no Linguistics it was just Authority and Novelty something new I'm in a building I've never been in in front of this machine I've never seen with this dude in a lab coat that I've never met before everything was novel and we know novelty generates a tremendous amount of focus inside of our brain so when you're hypnotizing somebody to do something like that you can modify two different types of contexts first context is it's a life or death scenario where you need to shoot somebody the second context is you see that gun that you're holding as a water gun or something that's absolutely harmless so those are the two ways we can modify context and there's a guy named George eser Brooks who I think was kind of the Pioneer in doing this hypnosis for things that may not be in your best interest and George esterbrook was a professor at Colgate University and he had these documents called super spy where it talked about how to split a personality and how to program spies to carry secrets in these like partitioned so to speak parts of their brain that even if they were interrogated and captured they couldn't access until they receiv received some kind of code word across the across the Enemy Lines these are MK Ultra documents that were inside of George esterbrook's attic and never got destroyed uh that the CIA told them to destroy it they're not even on the internet uh I have I will put them for you if you want to throw them in the show notes and these are brand new this is not like something you type in MK Ultra and you get get access to these documents so it goes to this little formula to make this super soldier and then super spy and he was one of these Pioneers these are letters between him and Jay Edgar Hoover and him and a lot of these famous hypnotist hypnotherapists and psychiatrist back then and he was a psychiatrist as well so Esther Brooks had these systems developed and their overall they developed an entire plan to hypnotize this German uh submarine captain and send him back to his Arbor in Germany and have him torpedo the entire German Fleet with a split personality uh as I know that plan never went through uh never uh came to fruition but all of the steps of this plan were in there and it's all about those six things that I talked about and can I get enough expectancy focusness open openness connection and compliance and suggest ability and if I can level up six of those I can do anything I want if you just look at the milgrim experiment it was only three if you have all six U you can literally do whatever you want and this these are like cult leader things like if I have you captive and I'm making you do stuff all the time you're conforming to the tribe and there's tons of authority and your emotions are being messed with so I have your Mamon brain captured and then around there we have all of those six things which is what influences the human brain if I have those six I can do whatever I want anything I can get you to do anything I want I don't need hypnosis I don't need anything else I just need those six things and if you look at what Manson did who was obviously trained by the CIA I mean it's it's kind of obvious now um this guy named Jolly West was I think heavily involved in this stuff but like Manson told a a librarian to go kill a pregnant person which is bizarre especially a woman killing a woman who's pregnant is almost unheard of it's like all of us every human being has this innate uh desire to protect pregnant people it's innate it's I think it's built into everybody to override that you would have to have all four of that mamalian brain control and then all six of the human brain control with all six of those elements can you hypnotize someone to like do something they can't normally do do like uh physically lift more weight than they can uh jump higher than they can that kind of thing absolutely but what you're really you're not modifying ability you're modifying uh perception of limitation so I've done this with many different UFC fighters and and boxers where we hypnotize them not to get gassed out and to not really feel a lot of pain during the fight and it has worked absolutely you I mean you can watch it on YouTube you can watch the fights the guys that I've worked with and it's like you're looking at a human Terminator they don't make facial expressions you're not seeing them like heaving in the corner during these uh breaks in between rounds but you can absolutely do that what's I guess what's something you're surprised you can do or people on stage are surprised that you can do I don't know I've never used hypnosis as like a demo in my life not even once oh well maybe like in a bar or something that what you do in the bar um mostly like and like I could teach you to do this in five minutes but it looks dramatic so no one cares about any degree that I have or anything like that or any books I've written but you could do this one thing in a bar that where like you just have someone lay on the ground and it looks dramatic so like you tell them to go down and they just you kind of guide them down on the ground and just kind of leave them there and people are like oh my God this is like a magical power like I could teach you how to do that in 5 minutes it's not hard how fast could you make me or could you try to make me like fall asleep in this chair just like all the way is that possible easily yeah you want to go through it yeah uh any uh special thing that you would like as an outcome of this more confidence more discipline uh what would what would you prefer more focus a lot more Focus all right so I have a I have an innate desire to explain everything I'm doing as I'm doing it but I'm just going to go ahead and do it without any explanation beautiful all right so go ahead and put both of your feet flat on the ground and just let your legs relax and now I want you every breath that you're taking I want you to imagine that your lungs almost go all the way to the bottom of your feet like you're trying to fill up your legs with that air that you're breathing in that's great and just continue those just deep deep breaths and all I want you to do is imagine every one of those tiny muscles around your eyes completely finally getting your permission to just let go and then just the skin on the back of your neck if you can just picture that what that would feel like if that skin could finally just release and unwind and letting every piece of that stuff go and knowing that the deeper that you're allowing yourself to go now the better it feels and the better it feels the more you're going to accept this suggestion for increased focus in your life and it's going to get even better and the more those breaths continue to Just Breathe themselves the more the skin around the entire body can completely let go and just feeling even those muscles running alongside the left and right side of your spine finally getting your permission to just let go and letting everything go and when you're ready allowing the eyes close only when you're ready to go completely down and letting that head just relax and go into a natural place of just absolute letting go and all those muscles just completely unraveling letting your mind wander wherever it wants to go and just letting my voice be right there where it is in the center of your mind as you can just sleep all the way down even deeper than before letting that neck completely relax all the way back noticing that as you continue those breaths the deeper you go your body continues to go deeper and deeper than ever before every muscle relaxing Rel releasing and completely Letting Go allowing that part of your mind that doesn't need to be here to drift wherever it needs to go and knowing that every time you touch any door knob or any handle to open any door you'll be reminded of the following suggestion that every single day of your life your level of focus on what's important will continue to increase your level of absolute drive and focus on the most important things will be unshakeable more Focus than any time in your life every time you touch a door knob or any device to open a door your brain will automatically completely recall and make even more powerful the suggestion that you're receiving right in the center of your mind right now you allow all of that part of your brain to absorb everything right where I am right here in the center of your mind letting all those muscles completely relax release and let go and now in a moment I'm going to count from 1 to five to bring you right back here to the room and with each number increasing letting that suggestion sit deeper and deeper and more permanent and only allowing the eyes to open as that suggestion becomes absolutely permanent in your mind one getting more aware of Just The Sounds in the room again two a little more aware of that chair underneath your legs and the weight of your feet on the floor three back to hearing my voice off to the left side of your head right now and five letting everything become more and more permanent as you come right back to this room oh man I will say guys that's very impressive considering he didn't have much time with me to even start on it gosh so it's I know the words that you need to hear though yeah I I've spent two hours with you now I know every word that causes your blink rate to go down that's impressive um well we only have a few minutes left let's take a look at the notepad to see what the predictions were originally uh you don't have to read them out loud I would read them to yourself first can you explain the second one to me or maybe I remember what it says getting the writing wrong read it you can read it that's fine uh frequently ruminating on what could have been said or communicating differently or wish you had communicated differently yeah I I would say nailed it on those I mean I'll say them to the audience for uh for fun uh the first one was uh deeply worried about how you're being perceived to the point it interferes with your life uh and the last one was using constant exposure to sound voice video when alone to avoid more deep SL penetrating thoughts that interfere with self-concept and self-confidence and certainty about the world yeah these are really good one other guest that uh had interviewed like hundreds and hundreds of people said that to me um like on one of my first podcasts he's like you are so particular in your movements I I'm like like worried about perception that's fascinating just from I I'm just imp like it makes sense that you would realize that by now but I'm pretty impressed in hindsight that that was briefly after knowing each other write a book called six minute x-ray uh how to develop a full Behavior profile in 6 minutes I wanted to ask ask you about that but guys we do not have much time unfortunately um a question I ask uh every guest and you take your time on this uh what's the best piece of advice you've ever received this is going to be Cory uh but I think it's the most powerful thing in the world if you read every ancient text uh whatever religion the nagadi the Torah the Bhagavad Gita uh whatever you read the most common phrase including the Bible the New Testament the Old Testament even the Forbidden books of the Bible like um the book of Timothy uh or and Thomas and uh Judas um the most common phrase ever repeated in all of those texts you know what it is do not fear in every single ancient religious text is fear not or do not fear or some variation of that funny enough the king Jes version of the Bible says do not fear 365 times and I think that's our biggest problem in life is like getting to fear is the opposite of love and every spiritual teaching you know that so almost all spiritual teachings teach that we only really have two basic emotions as humans we have love and we have fear and I think having a good life is getting out of that fear area and getting into like how can I just be openhearted all the time time and just loving what's going on and be more in the love part so the best advice I ever got was from ancient religious text every religion ever yeah that's a goodp one well everyone this has been the uh Jack Neil podcast this is your guest Chase Hughes thanks for coming on man uh where can people find you uh you can just go to my system you can go to my YouTube channel it's just just under Chase use or our website for all the training and stuff is called NCI University awesome thank you guys nice to meet you man