definitely okay so I guess I should uh tell you um the reason for this interview is because we're supposed to find out uh what what are the different types of of counseling and what are the different ways people got into it and why and do they like it and if they had to all over again would they do something else um then I guess my first question to you is what motivated you to become a school counselor well I was a special ed teacher beforehand um so for seven years I was in special ed and I loved doing that um but I wanted to start a family with my husband and I thought I can't all the grading and the IEPs and all that was just so much outside of school work and so I was like I love kids I want to be in a school but what position could I have that I was still able to love on kids but I could didn't have to really on this is a horrible answer Mo'Nique to grade papers and things I was like I can't do that um and I really was evaluating what do I love about my job and I was like I love relationships with kids and just being a safe person for them um having lunch with them and just getting to know them and so I talked with my principal Miss erson and I just said I need a change and she was like that sounds like a counselor and I was like it does doesn't it and so and I've always had this like I love getting to know people I love being like relational um I'm very introverted but I love relationship with people and that is what I felt like a school counselor gets to do is just be a safe grown-up for kids yeah so it evolved that is true but um I guess that's what the next question is then that aspects of what you really enjoy is is that it brings you brings you I guess that that need to be connected so what is it that you don't enjoy um the heavy part of it which is you know when you're in the world of mental health or counseling or therapy like you're going to get the heavy um and that is hard because when I'm working with kids and especially now as a mom um some of the things that our kids go through is just I Envision my own children and going oh I can't imagine them having to go through that and so that for me has been the hardest part is just um the realness of this broken world and that our kids are having to go through that really but on the other end of that I can be a person to support them and love them and get their family resources or just be there for them and so it's that yes this is hard but I get to serve them um and hopefully give them some hope along the way so okay oh so um if somebody does come to you let's say a teacher says this is this kid is not working out in the classroom there's something on do do you evaluate them or does do you send them out to a psychiatrist to get an I uh what do you call it I I yeah okay so the process for that um now if we have a teacher that comes and says we're having just some behavioral concerns with a kiddo we can work with the family and create like a positive behavior plan where we say okay let's work on you know positive behavior during Center time maybe that's where we're seeing the most the most issues so we can work on that without having to have anything formal done but when it comes to special education services and needing an IEP um that is through our school psychologist so Claire Duncan who works in the same office as me she's our school psychologist so the family would request that or the teach te would show documentation to say this kid is having trouble with reading or math or even behaviors you know and social emotional and then that she would do the process of signing consent and looking at a true evaluation so my part is just okay this is what's going on let's brainstorm some ideas I'm kind of more the intervention piece okay hey tried this and then she's the referral assessment person right because once it goes to her is then then it's documented right and then that's like oh yeah like permanently on their uh record and then and then from there it's determined from her like where the where they go for special needs so what happens is she'll do an evaluation and she'll test academics she usually looks at IQ um there's adaptive uh questionnaires that families fill out background information all of that and then basically she writes a huge report and schedules what's called an eligibility meeting okay and the family the teacher the principal or administrator and Claire sit down and say Here's the data what do we think so that it's a team decision um and saying does this child qualify and need special education services um do they need a 504 which is what I'm in charge of which is just accommodations okay it's not like pull out services um or are they going to are they okay and we we don't need anything so the team decides what the child needs and then from there it's do they need to be pulled out how much what kind of goals are they working on those kinds of things well that's sort of like the next question that that sounds very challenging I mean what what if you what if you get a parent who is sort of like that's not my kid I mean I'm not you guys are like well then do your job you mean he doesn't have to like go through this that's very challenging like to no wants to hear their kid is like yeah causing trouble right um it's very useful very rarely has that happened usually parents say yeah they're doing this at home too like we need some help um but we have had families that say no that's what are you talking about um and from there I think taking the data is so critical it's saying you know what we're breaking down the day by hour and we're seeing at 9:00 A.M every day this is happening so we can show that to families and they go oh you had to you know redirect them 14 times in a 30 minute time that kind of information I think really helps take away that subjectiveness and it goes this is the objective data that we're presenting to you to show that we've got some needs and that I think has always seemed to help but I think too it's how you present information to families you know if you're coming at them and they feel attacked versus that like Hey we're on the same team and we just want your kiddo to feel most successful at school and at home I think that really your approach really matters on that so do they um do you have I saw there was another class I took at at Southeastern University um where they talked a lot about PBIS where do you guys follow that so years ago we did we did PBIS which is that positive behavior intervention strategies yeah and I don't know if you remember but that's how we got all of the school schoolwide um procedures so our cafeteria procedures our dismissal procedures level the language of like level zero in the hall um our hero Mantra The Honorable engaged responsible and orderly that all came about from PBIS and so we kind of I remember my first year 14 years ago we sat down there were a bunch of us and it was just kind of hey we're seeing that dismissal is really busy how can we make this better and we thought oh let's break them apart into your black top you're the best kiddo you're the um after school program you're the car riders and so it was just sitting down looking at our school and saying how do we make this more organized and safer really um yeah you said 14 years 14 years I'm no what I've been in this for 14 years no you haven't you look like you're teenager it's just my camera's blurry no I you for 14 yeah okay that's I didn't know know I started I was 22 when I started um and that's I had McKenzie remember Mackenzie yes years ago so time goes by so fast doesn't it you blink and it's not I still feel like I'm in my 20s sometimes but I'm not okay so because that was also the thing that I saw like when a kid is sort of like on your radar do they come back in and have to like there I don't know there was like some ruler or something that where they have to come back in and sign in with you and tell you how how many miss or you know redirections they had to have in their day do do you still have where someone has to come back in with you before they leave for the day um we have not with me necessarily we can do like a check-in checkout system with it is sorry a with a teacher so we have one student who's currently doing that um and his is just effort-based is really what we're measuring uh because he was having a hard time in math just staying motivated and so he's older and it's a it's kind of a hard measure to measure but it's him saying I really did give my best effort today it's a one to five scale or he'll say you know what today I was a two um but I know yeah but it's like that self-reflection piece of I could have done this better and so um for him he's paired up with a teacher that's out in the Portables with them so that he can easily access her and say this is where I'm at and this is where I'm not at so um yeah we've done checkin checkout with kiddos or we'll just take the data and then have a family like a meeting with the family and say let's try a positive behavior plan and that could be um your earning smiley face the littles you're earning a smiley face every time you're doing whatever the goal behavior is and if you get this many you can yeah you can do this activity and we try to keep it free um sometimes it they want to have lunch usually they want to have lunch with someone they want time they want have lunch with you they do and I love it but when they're teacher or Miss imers they I've noticed kids want time with people yeah yeah and it's like yeah it's great to have whatever or a safe person not like yeah I I noed that that oh my gosh if they found out that you were having lunch with someone you just saw like oh they get to go like just ask me they're like how do I have lunch at just ask me I will but I am changing that this year so that I can ensure I have lunch with everybody in our school and not just the kids who ask me all the time because they'll be like how do I do that like we just ask but now I get to ask them so oh that is so sweet I love it well I it doesn't sound like the the next question is how do you what what activities do you do to avoid burnout I mean do you ever feel like overwhelmed or like just oh yeah yes okay I do I when the heavy stuff really happens uh we've had kind of an interesting start to the school year just a lot of big things have happened um and I am tired I'm I'm physically tired mentally tired emotionally tired um it just can wear on you over time you do to to like recharge yourself I my little boys fill my heart with so love and joy I know it sounds so silly but I I'm an older parent you know I'm 36 and so I had Becca when I was 31 and Barrett when I was 33 and so or 34 maybe and I really just appreciate their time and excitement and so and also they're little and they're busy so when I go home I can't really think about anything else I can only focus on them oh that's nice though but it is nice it's like a separation and so I really focus on being intentional with my time with them and with my husband and okay I love outside I love being outside so going on walks or going to the park or just sitting in our backyard while they play um I've recently become a reader so like working on that and I talk like just read to them reading books just reading oh yeah uh like for myself I never have been um a big like let's read a book and do that like that's but I do I also have my people that I talk to um I've I've believe in therapy and I've done that before but it's not a necessity for me right now um but I talk to my mom or my sister or my husband and just I gotta word vomit all this stuff out and they fill my soul yeah that's perfect that's important um I guess that uh sort is did I did I talk about that burnout yeah well I get I didn't want to skip that question but so so you you went to school your your education was to get a master's of Education or you and then you so no my undergraduate my bachelor's is in special education okay and so that was originally what I um did and um then and so then from there you have to get certified on your teaching certificate you know all the different areas you teach and then I got my Master's in School counseling oh okay yeah and it's through I was through University of Central Oklahoma they have a really great program and you can also go um do the LPC route um while you're doing your school counseling degree but I just wasn't ready to do that just yet so maybe one day I could go back and become like a true therapist oh doesn't matter um you you you're doing so much I I just I see all the love that the kids give you so it's obviously working um would you is that sort of the advice you would give um someone that wants to go into school counseling I think it's really really beneficial to be a teacher a classroom teacher to some extent first okay um just because with my job I get to push into classrooms and teach lessons and I love doing that okay but I love it because I know my classroom management strategy I know how a classroom Dynamic works and so I think without that I wouldn't feel as confident in my teach skills um I have some there's other counselors in our district who were not teachers before they were mental health professionals and then became school counselors and usually their least favorite thing to do is push in and do lessons so it it's it's personality but I think being in the school for as long as I was it helped me know a school Dynamic um and then I could be the counselor for a school cuz I think that's very different than being a counselor outside of school you know yeah I think um I just saw like there was that un uncomfortable subject with the fifth graders and I just saw like how you were just so comfortable in the classroom with them so I think anybody else probably would have been like oh my gosh who are you what are we doing here why do I have to do this yeah there's a yeah you just got to be and you got go confident with fifth graders too because they will eat you alive if you're showing any type of I I miss them so much I you know I it was such a difficult uh decision for me to stay with my dad and not come back and um it was I was really torn what to do because uh you know the guy that I was looking after I was I just became just so um like concerned like there's that concern you have for th those those kids yeah it was it was such a heavy decision for me but anyway no I can imagine and you they connected to you they they liked you a lot you know so much too they're cool so they were weren't they a really unique group too they covid um when all that happened it brought their class specifically closer oddly I don't know how to I don't know why but they've always been a really tightnit group of kids so even though they were apart for a while you would have thought that they they would just sort of like be on their own type of thing like and they were not at all they were just too cool anyway uh I know you were busy but I want to get back what's the next question uh what is the state of mental health system in Oklahoma not good no yeah why I don't really know um I don't think I don't think we are a very wealthy State you know um not in a bad like that sounds bad but I mean like in terms of of city funding you mean yeah and so I think it's a matter of funding I think it's a matter of Education of um uh I also think it's uh people sometimes think a counselor or a therapist is a bad thing I remember one of my first years I had a parent um I was helping with sell parking for an OU game and he was like oh what's your job and I said I'm the school counselor and he was like oh help my kid never has to come to you and I remember she was in kindergarten and she was actually a fifth grader last year and she did come to me she was but not in a bad way you know and I remember thinking oh I've got to change the perception of my job I get to help Advocate and say you know what this isn't a bad thing when they come to me this is students seeking conflict resolution skills or coping strategies or um impulse control there how cool that we have this generation of kids saying I need help with this can you help me um but I think a lot of families have a negative connotation of mental health and so and I think in Oklahoma um we always seem to be just a little bit behind other states and we'll catch up to it eventually but it's saying this isn't a bad thing you know working on your mental health is just like going to the gym to work on your physical you know it's part it's if we're looking at the whole person it's so impactful but I think there's just a negative taboo negative connotation with it sometimes not for everybody and I think it's changing but maybe that's it instead of just saying like yeah like you said going to the gym it's your it's your mental mind and why wouldn't you say just can you just check in on you know my kid and just see like I mean because there's always that that face that you put for your parents and then there's the face you put for the world and right or you know even you wear many hats for different people so why wouldn't someone just say yeah can you check in on my kiddo you know I feel like in the this is my seventh year doing this and I feel like there has been a change in um the dynamic at our school of I they know the kids know who I I am families know who I am they've heard my name I send out things you know um newsletters or emails to them and so I feel like it's changing here of this oh this isn't a bad thing this is just another person to be there for my kid you know and so yeah I mean they're gone eight hours of the day right yeah or longer um you know I used to see the kids that came off the bus in the morning and I was like no there's something not right there you someone needs a hug get on them and you think you've been up since what time on a cold or hot bus you're probably hungry and really tired yeah you may not see your grown-ups until six o'clock tonight you know that's a that's long day long day so yeah sometimes they just need a little love I know um okay what are the opportunities for practice within the counseling profession do you think um does every school in Oklahoma have a school counselor oh I don't know if every school I don't know about rural schools as much or if there's like a traveling counselor um in Norman every elementary school has one counselor in middle school every grade has a counselor oh and then in high school there are different um different types of counseling jobs so there's a school counselor and they do a lot of the College and Career Readiness or they'll schedule a lot of with schedules of putting stuff in and kids getting their class schedules um there's also an advocate and there's an advocate at both high schools and I think there a student advocate for middle schools um and they serve as like an advocate for us I don't really know the extent of their position um but that was a new position a couple of years ago and then there's also some clinical therapists that have started I think each high school has one um where they actually have therapists working in the high school wow yeah so it is really good I think that that I think having social workers and therapists in school districts could be really helpful um going forward but for me the unfortunate thing about my degree my masters is if I were to retire from school counseling I can't go be an outside therapist so my degree is only for School counseling versus if I had done the LPC route as well then it's like oh then I could go and be a therapist outside of school but I don't know if that's what I want yeah but could you be could you have a LPC deg uh whatever um LPC is the exam right well LPC is like you're a licensed professional counselor and you have to take classes um for that and then I think you work under somebody and do like an internship where you get all your hours and then you can be like actual certified therapist that's that's what um this school at OU that's what eventually I have to figure out what to do I think we have to do 200 hours yeah it's a it is um can you have an LPC and be a school counselor or that oh you could you don't have to so one of the counselors at one of our schools she's an LCSW is that right licensed clinical social worker that was her world before this and so she's an LCSW and from there she you can get alternatively certified um and you just have to get a teaching certificate so you have to take the education assessment the that's where you do they're called the osat the OPI the oat it's all the education tests you would have to take oh that is that is and and what like what is your day like like uh do you you get in there super early you're there like when people are getting dropped off during the day you're meeting the kids every day very different um so I like pull up my calendar and just see last week um I always explain it as you know when people are like what does your day look like like it's different every day I know I have duty every morning at 7:25 and then that's about it you know um I will schedule lessons each month so I push out a sign up and teacher sh sign up for lessons and so some days so like I'm looking at um last Thursday I had a lesson at 8:15 and then when I was done with that I had to meet with a student that I've set up to meet with her weekly um and we're just working on like impulse control strategies then I had another lesson in second grade and then met with a fourth grade kiddo and then I met with a first grade kiddo and then I had I'm just giving you an example this is just one day and then I had to go do Duty for one of our teachers because there was an issue with a student and she had to do that so I just I don't mind like filling in um where where I'm needed one of the things I told Miss Emerson when I took this job it's like I don't want to be the punitive person I don't want to do discipline I want to be the one who's like supporting them through the discipline now if I have a kiddo who's running in the hall I will say hey remember walking feet or calm body or you know whatever I've written Behavior referrals if something happens um but I don't want to be the one who's like giving the consequence and calling the parent and all of that so we have lead teachers who do that and that's who I stepped in for or Mrs zmer if Miss Emerson's gone a Lead Teacher will step in um sorry that's a lot of information and then okay I have I just I just got that signal that it's gonna end oh it's almost done oh okay in nine minutes okay um ask you the last question it says the role and importance of supervision in the profession I think that's what I wanted to ask you are are you training the teachers on what to do in the class sometimes um I think if they have a question of what are some strategies I could use with this student yes I we also have a program called second step and that's our social emotional curriculum and so the teachers teach that curriculum it's District provided um but I train them on how to do that or I can help them find supplemental activities to support if they're working on growth mindset this week then they're like I need more um things for that I can provide them with that and so um yeah that's kind of but I'm not really the supervisor that's our administrator so I'm just like a support okay who's the administrator Carol Carol em okay the principal okay is that is that how it is in every school the principal okay principal and and um assistant principles like they're the ones who would do evaluations of teachers you know saying oh you're doing a great job with this or you need to work on this area I just get to come in and support them we don't have I mean McKinley doesn't have an ele uh what do you call assistant right no we don't um I think we're like always on the cusp of we're too small but we're almost too big you know we almost need one but I don't know it's a wonderful school it was a I had never um taught before it was a wonderful experience meeting you all and I just hope um I don't know you just continue what you're doing because the just the atmosphere when I was there is just so lovely and um I think you sort of give off that Vibe too like it's just everything's okay and everything will be okay so yeah thank you mon that's sweet you do it's hard and there's days where I go from one moment of you know there's tragedy happening and then I've got a kiddo and I got to turn that off and that's a hard thing to do is to go from my heart is heavy and I'm sad with you and no Hi how are you you know it's just you're kind of all over the place I remember that that day um was quite Vivid in my mind when we had to do that lockdown um the boy that was being looked after by um my what was her name my is dumb uh but I like my heart just didn't know like how to perceive all of that because there was like so much going on and yet you still have to put on that brave face for the rest of the kids yeah it's very much something you learn over time too is how to it's almost like compartmentalizing your feelings and I'm a big feeler like I'm very empathetic and all that but you have to kind of put I've had to learn to put that aside until I leave or until I have a moment to go get in my car and go get a tea from Sonic and just process that you know and so oh yeah you don't have it a this is like this is one of those towns that doesn't want to have anything like there's like one Starbucks one they don't like these big commercial um things coming into the city how long are you going to be there for I don't know you know my son and I are still struggling um my son is very like I would say uh still coping with the loss of his father and it's it's hard this week was his first week at University so it's been tough yeah okay but um I thought I would just put him in college and go back to Oklahoma um not not happening just yet not yet and that's okay you need to be right where you are thank you well thank you for your time Miss Todd this is wonderful it it's been a really wonderful for me because I actually have been thinking about going into school counseling but I didn't have a teachers degree so that so um Southeastern Oklahoma they they require the teacher certificate so I was trying to study for that alternative teachers um exam and for I had my degree in Psychology and the exam is Middle School social studies and that is I know world history US history geography macroeconomics and microeconomics I don't remember any of that I those don't words don't mean anything to [Laughter] me NOP nope yeah so I was really flustered because I'm like well if this is the only way for me to get into school counseling that's why I chose then U's um clinical Health but then I was really frustrated because I found out they're not um accredited oh and then I found out that if you're going to like sort of sit for I don't know there's some like Global license it's not an accredited college and they said well that was that was supposed to be your homework to find out I'm like can they help me oh my goodness well look into the like Elementary certification that test would be much easier the look up o oat Elementary they can't that one wouldn't work no for some reason they want you to be Middle School proficient at least it's kind of mean that is mean uh they want you to be Middle School proficient to be a school counselor if you just want to have your teachers credentials you can you can do the element do anything but to be oh yeah I know any anyway I took the exam I'll know in the middle of October if I passed it which I know I didn't but it's you never know you never know you're so sweet thank you Miss Todd welcome I hope you have a good rest of your day I hope you do too and can you give my love to miss Emerson well I'll let her know I you okay thank you bye good to see you good to see you too bye bye