okay guys we're here today john dana here huge honor for me placidu guys today joey is going to show us here take those made easy for nogi which is pretty much like the second part of the standing to ground instruction that you're teaching right john which is like the positional dominance yeah so can you explain your mortgage yeah i should start off with a proviso um when we say takedown's made easy it's always take down's made easy er how easy or difficult to take down and there's always contingent upon how good your opponent is you can have a very solid takedown if the opponent is very very talented it's never going to be easy so let's start off with that understanding the basic theme behind this this is the second video of the standing to ground series this is concerned with no ghee takedowns the idea behind the first video was that we worked from neutral positions surplus you don't find boring in the first video we look at the idea of taking people down from neutral positions like so okay we're both standing in front of each other from situations where either none of us has a grip okay we have no grip on each other or even if we do have a grip it's you can have some degree of dominance based upon your grip but it's never going to be strong dominance okay there's still good counters my opponent can do here regardless of the grip that i have on them working from neutral position is the by far the most common standing position where most of the takedowns occur because you spend most of your time in this position think about it the start of a match separate when a match begins the two athletes come out and you know the majority of their work is spent in this neutral position working like so okay um just because it's the most common position doesn't mean it's the most desirable position as much as possible if we're going to make it easier to take someone down and score points under the rule set of duty we want to work from positions of advantage here i have no intrinsic advantage over my opponent there's good things you can do there's good things i can do things get so much easier when you work from positions of dominance such as a standing rear body lock and like so okay from here the takedowns come easy okay if my mind is very very talented you can still make it tough for you believing but it's a hell of a lot easier to take someone down from positions like this and it is from neutral positions like so okay so in the second video we focus a lot on how to get to the dominant positions of of uh stanley judith now this is dear to the heart of most youtube players banana because from the first day we learned you let's see we got taught the idea of position before submission we're trying to extend the idea of position before take down okay instead of just shooting from neutral positions from from here it's hard and difficult work you go into your opponent's hips you go into his hands his head position blocks you he's got all kinds of submission holes from here if we work from here there's no sprawl that you have to deal with there's very few submissions from here they're fairly low percentage and it's just in general much much easier to control and take people down from positions like this than it is from here another position we investigate is short offense we work from a situation where you have your chest on your training partner's back and from here we find that the takedowns and the scoring of takedowns is so much easier from positions like this than it is from neutral position so we spend a lot of time focusing on standing rear body lock and the so-called short offense positions where we have our chest on our opponent's back and from there the scores come so much easier than they do from standing neutral positions the idea that we're trying to investigate is similar to the idea of position before submission only now standing situation position before take down if we can get to these two positions takedowns become significantly easier than they do from neutral positions so we have to show in this video how to get to these positions no one's going to start there so we start off with ideas of working to get behind our training partner's elbows so for example we'll work with drags to get to our training plan this far can slip our way into good attacks from any given under book situation and here we can throw our training partners online and end up behind our training partner in good attacking position from any given two-on-one we'll work with a training partner in like so we can come up behind that junior's arm and transition into the back and from here the takedowns come so much easier it's so much easier against uh from a situation like so just to work a training partner down to the floor and from here we look at all kinds of ways to trip people down get into good scoring positions down on the map once we've established the idea that there is there are certain positions from which the takedowns are significantly easier then we look at what i believe is the most interesting subject matter of the video and this is something i'm i'm very excited to teach to you all this is the idea of what actually are the scoring criteria of takedowns in jiu-jitsu and when you look at them they are significantly different from other grappling sports even someone who was already very well versed in wrestling and was highly skilled in conventional wrestling skills would find the scoring criteria in jiu-jitsu quite a struggle when they first began you can get situations which would look like a clean takedown in the sport of wrestling which would score zero in the sport so for example if possible standing in front of me um if i shoot for a takedown on plasito and he goes into a good sprawl and successfully goes behind me off the scroll and wrestling this would be a takedown and due to this would not be a breakdown okay we also look at the idea that um from a situation where an opponent successfully gets around behind us once we get to a position like so if i lock up buddy if i just take even a knee off the ground my opponent does not score in these kinds of situations okay as long as i have no knees on the ground he doesn't go into a score okay the real scoring threat doesn't come from so much from the takedown as the possible backtake from positions like so and from here it becomes much more a question of defending not so much the takedown has the back tank and we look at the idea that the scoring of takedowns in jupiter is quite different from most grappling arts the idea is that once we get to a scoring position and knock someone down we have to get to a situation where you keep one hip and one shoulder on the floor for three seconds in order to get a successful score if placido props up on an elbow there's no score here because there's no shoulder on the mat i need a shoulder and a hip down on the floor yeah if he turns to his knees i have to keep at least one of his knees on the ground for three seconds while behind his elbows in order to get a takedown score if prosecutors comes up to four point there's no school from here okay successfully avoided the school realistically the best way for me to score now is to get two hoaxes on my opponent to get the ring out of position okay so we look in detail at the idea of how do people actually score takedowns in the sport of genesis because it's not actually obvious at all the scoring criteria and judiciary for a takedown is so strict and so difficult to apply i mean think about it guys in a combat sport three seconds is an eternity it's a very long period of time an awful lot can happen in three seconds you can take someone down for what would be a perfect takedown in judo or wrestling they just turn to their stomach and get back up they got three seconds to turn to their stomach that's an awfully long time you have to hold one knee down on the mat for three seconds that's damn near impossible on a trained athlete and so what we find in practice is that you have to create a dilemma between the threat of the takedown which your opponent can usually if he's well trained easily avoid by turning to all fours and turn the actual scoring mechanism into taking his back and getting two hooks and exploring the rear amount and so what we find in practice in jiu-jitsu the overwhelming majority of cases the takedown creates an initial threat which creates back exposure and the actual mode of scoring is getting the rear mounted position and so jujitsu athletes have to train themselves not just for the takedown the takedown is just the beginning of the story the end of the story is almost always getting the rear amount of possession takedowns in jiu-jitsu tend to be scored when the opponent accepts the takedown if they simply don't accept it both on the adcc and ivjjf rules it's almost impossible to score on someone who's well trained and well conditioned and springs back up to their feet and so we have to condition the athletes to to look for the rare amount as the main scoring opportunity and so far as this is true jujitsu's scoring changes radically from wrestling scoring so for example if we have an athlete in front of us and we do a good job of turning this guy into a situation where we can put him down to his knees from here the story is just beginning here okay you can clearly see placido's back is not on the ground as he starts building up to his base we have to be able to create situations where we can create the threat of scoring off the back so as he goes to get up we need to consistently break this guy in strong body just break this guy down to the mat using any one of the methods that we explore in this video and consistently breaking it down the score from here is almost always going to come from attaining the rear mount as he goes to get back up we'll create situations where we can successfully get hooks in now you've scored you've got the rear mounted position okay and so the act of scoring jiu-jitsu is always not always but in the vast majority of cases linked to your ability to create an initial take down threat that creates a defensive reaction in your opponent and you as the judiciary athlete must be trained to get hooks in as they go to avoid that initial takedown threat creating that response of not being satisfied with the takedown but always looking for the actual scoring criteria of the back when they go into defensive work is one of the key themes of this video it's not just about putting people down it's about putting them down and getting the score on the due to two conditions nine times out of ten means getting to the rear mount that's good news for you jiu-jitsu guys because the rear amount is not only a very dominant position for scoring it's also the best position for submitting people as well so this is a this is a habit which i'm very much uh happy to build into jiu-jitsu athletes because it increases scores increases uh submission rate those are two very healthy things for the sport so the big things that we're trying to push in the second video banana the idea that work from here is hard work it's dangerous work i go in an obsession i guess i'm going right into plastic those guillotines i'm going right into his sprawls it's just a it's a tough tough place to work okay now because it's the most common place to work we had to cover this first in the first video because it is the most common place to work so we spend most of our time but as i said before i'll say it again just because it's the most common place doesn't mean it's the most desirable place in general we much prefer whenever possible to work from positions like so well now with your your body behind your opponent this is where it's easy to get your hooks in and start scoring the rear amount of position if your opponent goes to stand up from positions like this this is where it's going to be real easy to just sort of knock someone down to the floor and get into your to the scores that you favor this is the kind of situation we're from here it's an easy thing to knock someone down to the mat and get in and get those rear hooks up okay um it's it's much much better to work from those rear mount positions or from positions where we can go and get simple scores that take us straight into our training partner's back from short offense those are the positions that we're looking for and emphasizing very very heavily in this video okay so the two great themes that we're working with when we go to score takedowns as much as possible try to get away from just working neutral position i know that statistically you're going to spend most of your time working for mutual positions simply because that's where the match starts and it's hard to always get dominant positions on on opponents but the more we can spend time in these two positions here and here the more success we're going to have and we've got to get away from just thinking about jiu-jitsu as a sport of oh in standing position just look for the take out because realistically the takedown is just the beginning of the story yep the finish of the story is almost always the rear amount of position so this second video is about how to get two dominant rear amount of musicians out of takedown scrambles this is the the science of scrimmaging where both offensively and defensively i have to teach athletes to scrimmage their way to the rear mounted position understanding that the takedown itself is never enough against a trained athlete they're simply not going to accept both a hip and a shoulder being put down on the ground as i get knocked down to the ground by any given takedown it's a relatively simple thing to keep the back off the ground it's a relatively simple thing even as it comes around behind me to come up into a situation where my knees come up off the floor it's hard to get that that that scoring criteria satisfied and that's why the rear mount the transition to the rear mount becomes so important for g2s to develop as a reflex again it's not enough to score the takedown the takedown just opens the book and what closes the book is the rear mounted position so this video is all about that continuity between the takedown and the score now i know people don't like to hear you know so dan you're all about submission are you talking about scoring points well the beauty of the rematter position is one of the very few positions where you get the maximum score and the most high percentage finishing position so this is one example where scoring and submission are very closely linked okay um so i i don't see this as a it's a problem for those who favor submission this goes very well in line with this submission for everything philosophy um and insofar as this is true i think this is a very very interesting project because it cuts to the quick as to what is the distinction between wrestling and units when people see nogi takedowns they look at it and they get like dude it's just bad wrestling it's just guys that aren't very good at wrestling trying to double legs and single legs and bang each other on the head and yeah i get it there's some if you dig around there's plenty of examples of that going on but the long-term project for judiciary should be to build an autonomous approach to the standing position which enables athletes to stay true to the scoring structure of jiu-jitsu and the emphasis of submission above everything and nothing does that better than the idea of incorporating the idea of position before submission but applying it to take down so now it becomes positioned before takedowns and then getting to the number one scoring and the number one submission position in the sport which is the rear mounted position and building that reflex where people tie together the takedown is the opening move and the rear amount of position is the closing move and that's what's going to make due to two players into closers people who can go in make a good strong start with the takedown and then finish with the closing the deal with the rear mounted position the moment you have a generation of athletes doing that you're going to see the sport becomes so much more exciting to watch visually you get the interplay between standing and ground and finishing percentages are going to go up because they're working from the rear mounted position the number one finishing position in the sport well john and so a few questions here so for example you take one student what do you teach him first the neutral positions or the dominance that's a great question um i i usually have them start in the dominant positions and i'll explain why um neutral position picture how things are different for the average jiu-jitsu student over say for example the average wrestling student when you start the sport of wrestling the average age of people starting in the sport of wrestling is considerably younger than it is in the sport of judiciary okay if you look at the profile of most people starting wrestling they start in youth wrestling most people start in judits who start as adults okay so for a 27 year old guy who hasn't done anything particularly athletic to learn a solid double leg from distance it's his first move no it's going to be right it's going to be hard it's not impossible but it's going to be hard okay it's going to it's not going to be the easiest move it's not going to be his easiest learning armbar from god i'll tell you that right now um now compare that with the seven-year-old kid it's relatively easy for him to go through the various body movements the level change the penetration to get to a double leg it's a pretty easy project to teach a seven-year-old kid a double leg so realistically uh it's going to be hard for the average profile jiu-jitsu student at you know mid-20s or early 30s to just go out and learn the most difficult form of take down a double leg from neutral as his first move but it's relatively easy to teach him a takedown from say for example a rear body lock okay that's not particularly difficult and anyone can learn that in a fairly short period of time same thing from short off hands it's a pretty easy thing if you have your chest on your opponent's back to to go into scores from those positions why because you're so much closer to your opponent here if you're standing buddy from here a neutral position like so i'm going into all of my opponent's defenses he has a height advantage over me and his hips are in a strong position he can meet me with his hips and get his legs back it's hard work from here to to to work there's all kinds of submission dangers he's got kimura on my right arm he's got guillotine on his left it's tough now contrast that with short offense now my weights are on top of him okay he's carrying my weight at this point the distance between me and his legs is so much shorter now his head starts coming up just so much closer to his wings now it's gonna be easy to knock someone down from here yeah okay if anyone's in submission danger now it's him not me yeah okay so so everything's easier from those dominant positions so that's where i typically start i start in a dominant position and then work let them work take downs from there i don't teach the most difficult things first when when people begin their their standing training i'm not going to lie to you confidence is a bit of an issue for them you know you you you come in your first day you learn a double leg and then you try to do it live you get stuff 10 times in violently guillotine three three out of 10 times your confidence goes down and you won't shoot but if you learn how to control someone say for example from short offense position double legs are pretty easy from there and it's hard for your phone to count you with and and and so you start hitting the move successfully and success breeds confidence and confidence breathes success and you get a much more positive cycle so i typically emphasize more getting positioned first in the standing position and then i work that and then as their skill level and confidence rises then we start going from neutral position okay so that's typically the way i coach um you'll generally find that getting to a dominant position the moves that get you to a dominant position are relatively easy to to use okay so for example a simple arm drag when you hit an arm drag and get to a position behind your training partner from here it's a relatively low risk move yeah okay there's not a lot can go wrong with this a a simple throwback if we have a throwback here and i put my chain buttons out behind me there's not a lot can go wrong with this okay when i go into a double leg if it doesn't work things go badly wrong he gets those legs back it's a real problem now i'm carrying all of his weight his weight's on top of me when things go wrong with an arm drag or a throat by him nothing really bad happens no i'm still on your feet you're not carrying your opponent's body weight the worst things that happen in the standing position when you carry your problem body weight be standing over me and those legs go back and you're carrying weight you can extend it out okay anytime you get extended and you're carrying your opponent's body weight that's when standing position just becomes miserable okay but if an arm drag fails we're in here it's going to get your body sucks if we're in here and then andre fails and he pulls out in circles nothing bad happens yep okay he's still in position this is just a working wrestler if i come in here and it all goes to hell and he starts turning the corner on me and spinning around man you get sevilla so um so in this video what we emphasize is the the idea of very low risk moves that get you two good possessions right yeah i think that's what everybody wants to learn and then once you get the good positions the takedowns are a lot easier and if they do go wrong they don't go badly wrong as opposed to getting hit with your opponent's body weight on top of you oh john a few more questions so for example so which advice you would give to someone who wants to learn this type of wrestling because it's so easy to tell that oh go do go to wrestling class but that's not what they would learn and for example i have seen gordon training with like division one olip caleb wrestlers and if it's wrestling rules i guess you'd probably get his ass kicked but if you say this is your rules the game changes completely so which advice would give to that person to become like what warden is for example that's that's that's a great question um here's what i this is my philosophy it would add one more thing so gsp is another example like if he does wrestling against a division one wrestling on wrestling rules he might end up losing but on nba with punches and kicks involved the way it's on him he takes everybody down there's actually three fascinating questions i'll answer all three okay um your first question was um what do you do with uh uh preparing someone for a yeah you know do you send someone to a wrestling club to get them ready for acc roles my answer to that is no i don't uh i know i've been accused of arrogance in the past where people say oh um danaher teaches his guys takedowns he never wrestled like what is he doing okay um i sincerely believe that when you change the rules here the entire game changes from from ground up okay um i believe that jujitsu has a huge amount to learn from the sport of wrestling and no one enjoys watching good wrestling more than me no one enjoys learning from good wrestlers more than me but i also understand that the minute you start playing with the rules you got a different sport on your hands okay the biggest mistake that i saw when i was coming up through the ranks is people would say hey i've got a competition coming up i need to learn some takedowns they would go to the local wrestling club for three weeks before learn a few basic ideas wrestle with some wrestlers in a standing position and then go to compete then as soon as the competition was over they would never go back to the wrestling club go back i've seen this so many times and you've got to ask yourself a bunch of questions first do you really think you're going to just pick up takedowns in three weeks do you really think that's going to work it's one or two months what are you going to learn in three weeks okay to take your point extend it three months do you let's compare this in jiu-jitsu let's say you're a wrestler and you're about to fight a jiu-jitsu guy in a jitsu match do you really think you could just do jiu-jitsu for three weeks and learn how to defend a triangle screaming or a katakadama of course not life doesn't work that way you don't just learn a skill in in weeks or months you learn them in years and so you can't have this approach of just saying hey i'm gonna throw in a little bit of wrestling training to see what happens your training has to be day in day out for years at a time in addition the rule set of jiu-jitsu is completely different so we will often have elite level wrestlers come and work with our with our athletes and they will score many takedowns but they won't score points under jiu-jitsu rules because they don't understand the scoring criteria and so they'll be looking and say hey i took that guy down five times and i have to explain to them well actually you didn't score even a single point you did put him on his butt four times that's true but you didn't score and in fact your opponent scored on you because he hit one go behind and got his hooks in yeah and he actually scored so you lost and they're looking in disbelief like but dude i i put that guy in his ass three times and you just have to explain the rules and then you're like wow that's a really weird rule and then yeah it's a different game yeah it's oh yeah so i train my athletes for the game they play oh yeah okay you go to learn wrestling you learn wrestling and it's great you'll learn good mechanical details you'll learn all the the mental fortitude that comes with hard wrestling training and it's a it's a wonderful thing i'm not saying don't learn wrestling but what i'm saying is you have to take full time the study of standing position under your rule set because it's very different and it's not just about having good mechanics on a takedown or it's about knowing how to score under your rule set and the scoring criteria being juditsu is heavily influenced by submissions submission beats everything you can be down 100 points to zero and if you submit the guy you still win and the dominance of the rear mount as the number one scoring method so your whole thing in june 2 is to prevent the other guy getting the rear mounted to to work away from that we call the scrimmaging where you you screw in for points and the number one point point method is getting two hooks and scoring the remote so you'll see after a takedown occurs the two athletes scrimmaging for position on the ground sometimes standing back up sometimes going back down to the ground in this constant scrummaging away from the rear mount for the defensive athlete and towards the rear mount for the offensive athlete it's a fascinating part of the sport and it's this very very interesting merge of the skills of wrestling and adjectives together you see the the elite levels in both ibj jf and adcc competition um it's a fascinating developing part of the game and the only way like anything to get good at is the trainer full-time seven days a week 365 days a year you're not going to do it by going to a wrestling club for two weeks on those rules under those rules and then trying on the day to adapt life doesn't work that way as i said picture the reverse imagine a wrestler going to a judiciary school and saying let me just work triangles for three weeks so i don't get triangled by my part it's not good it doesn't work that way um now you also answer asked a similar question is what about george st pierre um he never wrestled and yet that's crazy incredibly well to me that's the crazy example couple things you got to know first off george would actually do extremely well in pure wrestling against different good wrestlers this is empirical evidence of this he fought otto olsen who was i believe a two-time uh champion in college he was at least all-america he was very very good and um george fought him in adcc as i think a blue or purple belt now otto olsen had gotten a silver medal in adcc mostly through wrestling i think he lost to marcelo garcia in the finals of 2003 if i remember correctly but he was an elite level wrestler and george took him down i think three times that's the adcc competition it was not taken and just doing this type of training and that was just grappling that there's no striking so don't think george is like some guy who if there was just wrestling he'd be here he went with a very good wrestler and took him down three times but not doing like wrestling classes right doing this type of like grappling take down yes even in pure wrestling he's a handful very good wrestler like you know he's he's trained with you know like olympic gold medalist and done very well and and wrestling rules so with wrestling shoes on he's not professional people have this mistaken idea oh he's he's only good at mma wrestling no he's also good and just the only proviso i put on that is that george never trains for what the rest is called part-tier which is wrestling groundwork because that's not relevant to his sport so if he went into elite level wrestling he would be beaten he would be highly competitive on the feet with them but he would be beaten easily in the pot here things like gut wrenches and leg laces he doesn't really train those because they're not relevant so he'll be beaten in with those books quite easily um but in standing takedowns he'd be a handful even for a very good wrestler a tough one to be a competitive match i would he wouldn't though but he would it would be a competitive match um then you ask the other question is well what about an mma well that goes back to what we said before takedowns in mma are a completely different ballgame from takedowns and wrestling they have superficial similarities what you would say is that the the completion of takedowns in mma is similar to wrestling but the entries to the takedowns are 100 different the stance is different the distances are different the setups are completely different it's a completely different ballgame you learn wrestling in mma to finish the takedowns but you learn shoot boxing to enter the takedown so george is the best of all time at entering into the takedowns his entries were so crisp and so clean that the finishing was almost like a formality wrestling was more than enough to finish it so those are some fascinating questions you asked um we've gotten a little bit off topic um that was a great conversation i enjoy i love the fact that for example you were the wrestling coach you were the striking coach the other day i was even watching one interview between joe rogan and i don't remember who but they were talking about that how you were they i think it was joe i think was joe rogan and gordon and they were talking about how you were the striking coach like uh you have all this knowledge you don't teach white tie to muay thai fighters but you teach muay thai to the mba fighters and it's a completely different game as you're just explaining yourself so for me it's it's about integration of skills yeah and um whenever you have uh a combat sport which involves integrated martial arts and let's be honest abcc is the integration of judicial and wrestling that's what it is that's what the rule set is designed to do it's not just the judiciary tournament and it's not just a wrestling tournament it's an integrated out the winner is not the one who's best at one of the skills yes the winner is the one who integrates them everything yeah that means you don't have to be the best wrestler you don't have to be the best pure judity guy you've got to be the one who integrates it best george was never the best striker he was never the best takedown guy but he could integrate them together and that's what makes it and i think that's the reason that everybody buys your videos because we're always teaching how to integrate stuff but i'm looking forward to the second video bernardo because um uh you know all our lives and judith we were taught about the idea of position before submission and here we are looking at position before takedown now and we investigate two major positions and then we look at how ultimately the whole scoring criteria of our sport is again built around position and in this case it's using the uh the rear mount as the the main method of scoring engineers so we're looking at the integration of takedown to rear mount and i'm very very confident that once uh emerging athletes and students who get this notion you're going to see positional sorry submission rates and the sport start to increase the more athletes fight their way from to take down to the rear mounted position you're going to see exciting matches and you're going to see matches that finish by submission yeah no joe i really loved how you broke down two different courses one all about neutral positions the other one all about position dominance and guys so this is the second part of standing to ground series from john all about position dominance standing and the as you guys can see like this is just like the video that you're explaining look how long it was and that's how john does his stuff it's always like the most complete instructional you can ever imagine and it's gonna be at bgj fanatics.com maybe by the time you were watching it's already there so make sure to check that out and thanks so much john thank you again thank you please help me out to grow my youtube channel just click subscribe and to watch more videos just click under see more videos i hope you enjoyed bjjfanatics.com use the promo code youtube faria to get 10 off any instructional video improve your jiu jitsu faster