Okay, so let's go to the first slide. So what I'm going to talk about today is my book, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. Now this book applies whether you're in a church or a school or a corporation or a department within that corporation, any kind of a setting where you're working as a team.
Okay? And I've been very blessed that companies and sports teams and churches and hospitals have all been using this. So we're going to talk about teams.
Okay? Okay. And, um...
So, and my books are fiction, most of my books are, but today I'm not going to tell you fiction stories that you'll find in my book, I'm going to tell you real stories. And so we're just going to go through this, I don't have a ton of time and I have a lot of good material to cover so we're going to try to go fast. I think it's good, I hope it's good. Okay, so let's talk about the five dysfunctions of a team. The first dysfunction of a team is the absence of trust.
So I just told you that this stuff is simple, you're hearing this, if you're hearing it for the first time you're thinking, no duh. Did this guy just say, if you want to build a team, you have to trust each other? Yeah, it's so obvious, isn't it?
And I realize that, and it is, but there's something about trust. Most people think about trust in a different way than I'm talking about it. See, most people think of trust as predictive trust, which means you and I have known each other long enough now to where if I say something, you'll be able to predict my behavior.
Or if we're in a meeting or in a team and you do something, I know what I can expect from you because we can predict one another's behavior. That's predictive trust. And any group of people... that's known each other for a long period of time can have predictive trust, but that's not the kind of trust that makes a team great. The kind of trust that makes a team great is what I call vulnerability-based trust.
Vulnerability-based trust. That's the kind of trust that comes about when human beings on a team can and will genuinely say things to one another like, I don't know the answer, I need help, I think I really messed this up, you are much smarter than I am, can you teach me how to be like you, or I'm sorry. What I said yesterday was totally out of line, and I apologize.
When human beings can be that emotionally buck naked, if you will, with each other, not pretending to be something they're not, when they can be that vulnerable, it changes the dynamics on a team completely. It is one of the most powerful things you can do on a team, because people come and they're open and they're honest and it changes everything. And one of the best ways we can understand this is to think about times we've been on teams that didn't have that.
Let me tell you a story about one of those teams. I once worked with a startup company in the San Francisco Bay Area where I live. And it was a startup technology company, but it wasn't your typical garage startup. It was a startup on steroids, if you will.
I mean, they had a ton of money in the bank right now. right out of the gate. They had a great product. They had handpicked all these world-class executives from around the country, from SAP and Oracle and PeopleSoft, all these great companies. And they had everything going for them.
And everyone said that this company was going to change the world, IPO, make a ton of money. And everybody had high expectations for them. Well, after they had been in business for a while... They called my little firm to do some work with their executive team. And God bless you.
And so, oh look, a bird, you know. And so, and so we went to work to observe, before we started and did a two-day off-site with this team, we went and observed one of their staff meetings just to kind of get a read on the team. And we learned two very interesting things about this team. First of all, they weren't doing very well in the market compared to some of their competitors. And it was very puzzling because they had so much promise.
The second thing we noticed was that there was this one member of the team, it happened to be a woman, it doesn't matter, she was in charge of marketing, and whenever she spoke during the meeting, something strange would happen. She'd express her opinion, and everyone else would go silent. And there'd be this uncomfortable pause until they changed the subject and started again.
So they would say, what should we do about this competitor? And she'd say, well, this is what we used to do at my old company. So this is what I think.
And they'd be like, quiet. Total momentum killer until they change the subject. Then the people on the team and I, And I said, why do you do that? What's going on there? And they said, ah, because every time we disagree with her or have a different opinion, she never acknowledges that we might be right.
She always insists that she's correct and defends herself. And we finally just decided, why bother? Why bother? So we thought that was interesting. A couple weeks later, we went and did a two-day off-site meeting with that executive team.
So we went off-site. And during the first day of that meeting, we talked about trust and vulnerability. But we also talked about... We talked about strategy and tactics in the company and what they were doing in their business.
And then that night we went to dinner at an Italian restaurant where we had some wine with dinner, which of course is the great elixir of truth for most executive teams. Many of you found that out last night, probably. And so, after dinner, this woman had a few too many glasses of wine, and she stood up, and I couldn't write this, I promise. She stood up, raised her glass and said, she had a few too many glasses, said, okay, we've been talking about... Trust today, and I just want to let you know I've been married for 10 years to my husband now And I barely learned to trust him this year And so I'm probably not going to be trusting you guys anytime soon if ever Cheers And we were like Cheers all right So the CEO and I, she and I went outside and talked about this.
We said, okay, here's the problem that this woman has. She has a fundamental trust issue. And it probably dates back to her childhood. I mean, it seemed pretty serious.
And as much as we wanted to go get, you know, a local... priest or minister and Dr. Phil, I don't know if you know who Dr. Phil is, and this woman's mama in for counseling, you know, we realized we couldn't afford to do that. We had to make this teamwork, but we also didn't want to just fire her. We said, we got to work with her and get her to open up to the team. So after a number of months, I worked with her and the CEO worked with her and it became very clear she was not going to change.
Her trust issues were that deep. She couldn't be vulnerable. So the CEO finally managed her off the team and out of the company.
And do you know the very next meeting? that we had without her there, the dynamics had changed so much that you would have thought they had swapped out every member of that executive team for a new one. Because if just one member of a team, and that's the moral of this story, if just one member of a team cannot be vulnerable, It's going to spread like a disease to the entire team.
One member. Now, everybody's going to come at that differently, are you alright? Oh, I'm sorry.
Um, sorry. Um, okay. If one member of a team cannot be vulnerable, it's going to spread like a disease to the entire team. So how do we get our teammates to be vulnerable? And some people are going to come at it in different ways, different personalities, different histories.
But we've got to know that everybody's willing to be vulnerable and acknowledge their weaknesses. So how do we do that? do that? Well, the only way to do it is if the leader goes first. If the leader is the first one to be vulnerable.
Because see, if the leader can't be vulnerable, then nobody else is. Nobody else will be. So let me tell you a story about that.
And for those that were here yesterday, this is the story I told you. I wasn't planning on telling it yesterday, but I have to retell it. So I once worked with a CEO who's a famous guy.
You've seen his picture on many national, international magazines. He's very famous. I worked with him when he was at a previous company.
And to be quite frank, he was not a great leader. But he was brilliant and intimidating and famous. And so nobody on his team in this company ever disagreed with him. And the head of human resources, God bless her, went to this guy and said, listen, nobody ever tells you when they disagree.
You're not benefiting from the opinions of the people on the team. You have to do something. And they agreed to do 360 feedback to get feedback from the team, which is sometimes a good idea, sometimes not. Well, they asked my little firm to administer this 360 feedback tool to get feedback from his team. So we did, and we collected all the information from his team members.
And then we gave him the results, and he proceeded to share those results with no one. And so finally the head of a... Go over the results with your team. They're curious as to what they learned from what you learned.
And he said, okay, I'll do it at the next staff meeting. And then he reluctantly, begrudgingly allowed me, as an outsider, who administered the tool, to observe this meeting. And so I sat off to the side on a little chair that had wheels on the bottom of it, which will become relevant here in just a second.
And he stood up and he said, OK, it says here I'm not a very good listener. Huh. What do you guys think?
And they went around that table and said, I think you're a good listener. I do too. I think you're a good, I don't think you're a bad listener. I don't have a problem with that. I think you're a fine listener.
So do I. And I remember it because I'd only written one book at this point in my career. And I thought, I could never put this in my books. Nobody would believe me. this, right?
So he said, okay, good, good. The next one here says, I'm not a very good, I don't give enough feedback or praise. Huh, I thought I'd gotten better at this. What do you guys think? Yeah, I think you're great at it.
I think you've gotten much better. I don't think there's a problem. All the way around the table. And this is where, and I laugh about it now, but I remember this well, I was sitting there on my chair thinking if I have any integrity as a consultant, this is where I have to lose a client or put one in jeopardy, right? So I got on my little chair and I was like, eek, eek, eek.
And I remember this well, I'll never forget it, I rolled up right next to this famous CEO and I said, excuse me, but you guys are the only people who filled this survey out, so somebody had to write this. Very quiet in the room. So the head of marketing, poor guy, slowly raised his hand, said, yeah, I think you could give more. I'd like to get more.
I mean, my team would like to get more feedback and praise from you. And, you know, they only hear from you if they screw up, and I think it'd be nice if you told them if they did something well. So, yeah, I think that I wrote that on my form.
I can vouch for that. I think you could improve in that area. Silence.
So the head lawyer goes, not me, I think you get plenty of praise. Everybody else said, so do I, I don't understand what he's talking about. And they killed the guy. I'm melting, I'm melting.
Now the moral of that story is this. That's the day, first of all, that that CEO lost all credibility. Secondly, that's how he sent a message to the team, I'm never going to be vulnerable, you guys shouldn't be either. You know, eventually that company spun out of control and went out of business.
or sold off for a fraction of its worth. You know what the Wall Street Journal said? They had strategic problems. They had some errors in their product.
But those were downstream symptoms of the real problem. The real problem was that there was no trust on that team. And it started with the leader who couldn't be vulnerable.
Now he didn't have to do anything weird. All he had to do was stand up there and say, Hey, you guys, I know I've got some issues. I've heard about this in performance reviews throughout my career.
And well, my wife tells me this once a week or so. And I know that I'm not great at it. I'll give it a shot.
I'll try to get better. I don't know that I'll ever be great, but I'm going to try and I appreciate your feedback. That's all he had to do.
But he stood there instead like the emperor with no clothes, with his big old bottom hanging out, like, how do I look, guys? And they're like, you look fine, boss. And everybody said, don't admit you've got problems. Now, some people will say, but Pat, what about that old saying, don't let them see you sweat? You know how leaders, we're not supposed to let people see us sweat.
You know, the truth is, the people that work for us, they know when we're sweating before we do. You can't really hide it. And that's why the best leaders are the ones that go, check this out. You know when you work for somebody who's honest about their faults? You think, you know.
You're human, and you know your humanity, and you know. the issues you have. Those are the leaders we'll walk through walls of fire for. But see, you can't trust someone if they don't know who they are and they're not comfortable with who they are. Because then you have to protect them from their ego.
Which is why vulnerability is such a powerful thing. But it's so funny, we as leaders don't like to humble ourselves to share in our humanity, which is all we have. We are called as leaders to be vulnerable. And when we do, other people will trust us.
Okay? Now, some people will say, but you don't want to be too vulnerable, do you? You know, the truth is, I don't think you can be too vulnerable. I suppose if you come to work every day and you say, hey, I made a mistake.
I made another mistake. Don't know what I'm doing there. Oops, screwed that one up too. I think that's probably a competence issue, not a vulnerability problem.
The truth is, whatever our issues are, we've got to be out there with our team. Because that's the only way they're going to trust us, and the only way we're going to inspire them to do the same with one another. Now, I've spent a lot of time talking about trust because... It's at the base of this pyramid because without it, we're not going to overcome the other four dysfunctions of a team. See, trust is so important.
And if we can build trust on our teams, we have a great chance of overcoming the others. And in fact, trust is what allows us to overcome the next dysfunction of a team, which is the fear of conflict. The fear of conflict. I love talking about this one.
See, the thing is on teams, conflict is a good thing. Conflict, even in meetings, it is. Conflict is a good thing. Now, I'm not talking about mean-spirited interpersonal conflict.
I'm talking about productive ideological conflict around issues. I have an idea around what should we do. But see, without trust, without vulnerability-based trust, conflict becomes politics. I'm trying to manipulate you to win. But with trust, conflict is nothing but the pursuit of truth or the best possible answer.
When we trust one another, we know that if we're debating something, even passionately, then we know it's because we're just trying to do the right thing. And that's a good thing. Now, but before we go... Further I want to say this, conflict is going to look different from culture to culture, company to company, family to family, person to person, and that's okay.
If anybody here done work in Japan, I'm sure there's somebody, show of hands. So if you've done work in Japan, you know, if you were to go to Japan and you were to sit at a table with a group of Japanese executives and one of them were to say, I have an idea, this is what I think we should do, and the other executives didn't like his idea, what would they do? Yes, they would nod their head and they'd say, hi, yes, hi, hi. That means, I don't like your idea. Now, if they hated the idea, if they loathed the idea, you know what they would do?
They'd go like this, hi, yes, hi, shh, hi, hi, yes. They'd suck through their teeth. If you're in a meeting with a Japanese executive and he or she sucks through their teeth, well, I want you to picture an Italian doing a certain gesture with their arms, as we know that I won't do here in front of the cardinal. But it's the same thing. And you just have to understand that that's how they say no way I hate this in Japan And it's gonna look different in Italy and Israel and and even in the United States you might know something about the United States I'll tell you this I'm sure in Europe it happens too But in the United States I saw cartoon years ago that depicted this and it showed a guy on the west coast in Los Angeles And in it he was with the team and he said to somebody good morning But the bubble showed what he was really thinking and in effect it said screw you And then it showed a guy in New York City on the next frame And he said to somebody hey screw you and the bubble said Good morning.
And you can apply that to your countries and continents, and I know you know what it means. The truth of the matter is, though, whether you're Italian and Irish like me with conflict, or whether you're demure about it, it doesn't matter. Whatever your team, you just have to have a team culture.
And the key is this. You just have to know that people on your team are not holding back. They're not calculating the cost of disagreeing.
They're not considering the political ramifications. If there's something important you're talking about and they disagree, they're going to say it again and again. Now, as I said, I'm Italian and Irish. My wife is neither.
She never saw her parents argue growing up. But she's a convert, if you know what I mean. And you know how converts are.
They're better at things than people born into them. so she has learned to argue so well and After she and I got married her little sister married my roommate So my buddy became my brother-in-law which was kind of nice except a year and a half later. They got divorced Yeah, and he went to counseling after the divorce, and he came to me later and he said, you know something, Pat, I always thought that you and Laura, my wife, had a bad marriage because you guys argue.
He said, now I realize that we had a bad marriage because we couldn't argue. Which of course is not to say that the quality of your marriage is directly proportionate to the number of fights you have. But what it is to say is great relationships are built on the ability to disagree, even passionately at times.
And to know that you can recover from that and it gets better. Remember, for those of you that are married, the first time you had a fight with your spouse? And you thought, oh, this is going to be the shortest marriage in the history of the world. And now later on, you can cycle through an argument ten times worse in five minutes and be done.
And it's a beautiful thing and you realize because you trust each other you when you when you argue you're usually just trying to solve a problem and and you forgive one another and all teams have to learn how to do that conflict is necessary now many leaders I talk to many CEOs I work with will say and and by the way most of them Have very little conflict. There's far less conflict in almost every organization than there needs to be. And I'll say to them, why don't you engage in conflict more?
They say, well, because I don't want to see people get their feelings hurt. Which is interesting and ironic, because you know what kind of organizations people get their feelings hurt in the worst? Of all the kind of organizations in society, where is there the worst kind of hurtful back-channel conflict? You can say it all together.
One, two, three. Church. Church.
That's right. Now, I like to have fun with that when I'm working with a secular audience, because I tell them that as well. And I say, and I work in my local church, and I've come to realize why churches have such bad conflict. It's because they hire mean people.
and they're like, really? Where do you go to church? I'm like, no, it's not that.
In fact, it's the opposite. We go to church. I'm Catholic. We have a parish council meeting, which is a group of volunteers.
And we'll sit down around a table to solve problems. And some very nice lady will say, I think we should have a festival of balloons next week or something. And I'm thinking, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But I don't say that to her because I'm Christian. I say, oh, great idea.
Thank you for that. Good. Okay. Anybody else? It's great.
Great meeting everybody. Thank you. Then I go out in the parking lot with my friend and I say, I think she's an idiot, don't you? And at meeting after meeting we go to, we never disagree, we start to roll our eyes whenever she speaks, we sigh.
And finally one of her friends tells her that someone thinks she's an idiot. Now we've crushed her spirit. But at least we didn't disagree with her idea. Ladies and gentlemen...
When we fail to disagree with people around ideas and issues, it ferments into conflict around them as a person. It builds up and it comes out in a hurtful way. When we think we're preserving the relationship by not disagreeing, we are actually dooming that relationship to failure in a hurtful way later. We owe it to one another to disagree. So we have to teach our teams trust so that they will engage in good conflict.
Now some CEOs will say, I don't care if people get their feelings hurt, Pat. I just don't want to waste a bunch of time arguing. Why don't I just make the decision for them and we'll move on? I'll be their hero and save them three hours so they can go read email or something.
But when we do that, when we skip over important conflict... We end up putting ourselves in a position to encounter the next dysfunction of a team, which is the lack of commitment. The lack of commitment.
You see, when people don't weigh in on a subject, when there's no disagreement or conflict, when people don't weigh in, they don't buy in to the decision. I fundamentally believe that. If people don't weigh in, they don't buy in. Now, just in case you think I'm arguing for consensus, please know, God bless you, that consensus to me is a four-letter word.
I don't like consensus. If we wait for consensus in our organizations, we will usually make decisions that are too late and mutually disagreeable to everyone. We need to be able to make this.
We need to do what Intel, the chip manufacturer, you know, the computer chip manufacturers talks about. They have this saying, they say, disagree and commit. What a beautiful thing. We can disagree, but then we can commit to an answer and walk out of the room together. The only way to do that is if we as leaders provoke good constructive conflict.
We have to demand that the people that work for us weigh in. And we have a difficult decision to make. Are we going to expand or are we going to contract? What are we going to do? Are we going to build a satellite church or are we going to add on here?
Whatever it might be. And we have to sit down with our team and say, what do you think? And we have to demand that people stand up and weigh in.
And then at the end of that discussion, when there's not a natural consensus, and there rarely is, if there is, hallelujah, thank God, we move on. But there's not a natural consensus. That's when we as leaders have to do what we're paid the medium-sized bucks to do.
And that's break the tie. We have to say, I think I've heard from everybody here, and I understand why you want to expand, and I understand why you want a satellite, and I understand why you want to build here. I understand what you don't want to do either. I get it.
I get it. My job as your leader now is to break the tie, and here's what we're going to do. We're going to build the satellite.
And I realize that you might be right after all, but this is a decision we're going to make, and I need your commitment. Do you know that 99 out of 100 times... Those people will support that decision even if they disagreed.
We're not talking about moral ethical decisions here. We're talking about what's the right thing to do. And when people know that they've been heard, not humored, but heard, and that their input has been factored into the decision, they can support things even if they disagreed.
And when we don't have that conflict, we are begging them not to commit. Are they going to go... What are they going to do if we don't have the conflict and I make the decision? Are they going to go sabotage the new satellite church?
No. I wish they would because that would be far more interesting. But that only happens on TV and in the movies. In real life, what happens is far more boring and more dangerous. What they do is they passively commit.
They nod their head and smile at the meeting. And then they go back to their department or their office and they say, I don't know if this is a good idea. And they tell people, yeah, I'm not sure this is a good idea.
And then when they see an issue, they alligator arm things. You know, they're like, oh, let me help you with that. Oh, no?
Oh, okay. Or they see a train wreck about to happen and instead of jumping out there and going, wait, they step back and they go, watch this. And then the leader calls them back and says, what's going on? And they said, well, I never really thought it was the right idea in the first place.
Ooh, that's painful. That's why we have to get that out on the table up front. We have to demand that people weigh in.
We have to demand that conflict so that we can get real commitment. Why is it so important that we get real commitment? Well, that sounds obvious.
But the real reason why, there's a practical reason, because if we don't get commitment, then we're going to have the next dysfunction at our doorstep. And that is the avoidance of accountability. God bless you. This is the worst, most common problem. We have an online team assessment.
that teams take, and they get a scorecard back of this triangle that says green, yellow, red, which of the ones are good or bad. And this is usually the lowest score. What happens is when people haven't committed to a decision, they're not going to have the courage to hold one another accountable for that, for the behavior that goes with it.
They're not going to have the courage to hold one another accountable. Notice what I said there. I didn't say the leader holding them accountable, I said them holding one another accountable.
You see, on great teams, accountability is peer-to-peer. Peer pressure in your organization is the best kind of accountability. You want people turning to one another.
What's the opposite of that is when people see a team member not supporting something, they go, oh, hey, boss, I want to tell you, she's not supporting this. Don't tell her it was me that told you, but I just want you to know. Then the boss is like, oh, great, I get to go. And he goes to that person, hey, I understand you're not doing it. Who told you that?
Oh, don't worry about who told you. I just want to, and now they're wondering who ratted them out, and there's all this politics, and the leader's dragged into it. What a great thing when people turn to one another and say, hey, what's wrong?
What's going on? I don't think this is what we agreed to. And give them the benefit of the doubt to explain. what's happening, but call them on it directly.
Okay? Now, how do we create a team environment where there's peer accountability and we as leaders are not getting dragged into it all the time? Well, there's an irony to this. The only way to create an environment where people will hold each other accountable is if we as leaders are willing to Confront difficult issues See the irony is if I as a leader and willing to confront people Then people know well, he's gonna do it anyway We might as well do it from each other for each other But if I as a leader do not like to hold people accountable and let me tell you something I don't I'm bad at this one this is my problem as a leader I'm very aware of that I do not like to hold people accountable you know what that means my team isn't going to do it why should they do it Pat's gonna let you off the hook anyway see the irony is by me not being willing to they're not not going to do it. By the way, there's a technical term for people who don't like to hold their folks accountable.
I don't know if you've ever studied graduate level psychology or business, but I'm what's called a wuss. Okay. And you know what's funny? Most of the leaders I work with are also wusses.
Most of them don't think so. In fact, most CEOs I work with will say, well, Pat, I don't have a problem with accountability. Let's just move right on to the next thing. And I'm like, well, that's great to know. Why do you say that though?
And they say, well, because I fire people all the time. I mean, I fired a guy just last week. Pick someone, I'll fire him right now just to prove it to you. Of course firing someone is often the last act of cowardice not accountability sometimes it's necessary Oh, I know that but oftentimes it's not see let me tell you a couple stories I worked with a CEO once he got hired by a big company That was kind of struggling and they gave him the title of CEO President and chief operating officer he had all the big titles a year after stabilizing this company He went to the board of directors, and he said listen.
I don't want to be the President and chief operating officer anymore. I just want to be the CEO and focus on strategy and externals I want to hire somebody to run the day-to-day operations the board said hey you've earned the right to do that fine so he went out looking for a new president and chief operating officer and While he was out looking one of the members of his team Who I will call Fred? Fred started to tell his peers, I'm going to be the next president.
It will be me. And I remember this, and I thought, it must be true. I mean, who would say that? Well, people did not like Fred at all on the executive team.
He was not liked at all. And people were really concerned that they were going to have to work for this guy. So finally one member of the executive team went to the CEO and said, can I ask you a question?
The CEO said, sure. He said, did you know that Fred is telling everybody he's going to be the next president? And the CEO said, no, I had no idea. That's news to me.
I had not heard that. And he said, okay, next question. Is he going to be the next president? The CEO said, oh, no, I would never do that. No, he would.
No, there's no chance. No. Oh, good, good, good.
Okay, last question. Are you going to tell him to stop telling everybody that? Here's what the CEO said in this case verbatim, but I've heard this from many leaders over the years, the same kind of answer.
The CEO said, oh I don't have the time and the energy for that. I don't have the time and the energy for that. I don't know about you, but can you imagine the CEO picking up the phone, hey Fred, it's the CEO, how you doing? Hey, you're not going to be the next president. No, no, you're not.
You're kind of pissing me off that you're telling everybody that. Yeah, you should stop buddy. Yeah, if you don't stop doing that, something bad's going to happen to you. Okay, have a great day. Bye bye.
Who's tired? I'm not tired. That took, what, 10 seconds?
I don't have the time and the energy for that. Once it happened to me directly, I was working for the CEO of a company. I was in charge of leadership development and organizational communication, right? And I had my annual budget review with his chief financial officer. And he was an old-school curmudgeon.
A CFO and when we sat down to go through he said Pat before we get into your numbers I'd like to tell you that if it were up to me I'd fire you and your staff and put the savings to the bottom line of the company because I think what you do is silly But I'm from California, so I thanked him for sharing. You know I appreciated that And then I said, Fred, I call him all Fred. I said, Fred, but these are the CEO's problems. I mean, programs. And you don't like them.
Why don't you just go have it out with him? He's your next door neighbor in this big company. And why don't you either convince him that you're right and put me out of my misery, or let him convince you that he's right and just...
join, get on board. He said, I'm not going to talk to him. I don't care.
And I said, then I will. Fine. Next day, I knocked on the CEO's door.
I said, hey, Fred hates the stuff I'm doing for you. He doesn't. You've got to talk to him about it. He goes, oh, that's just Fred. Everybody knows Fred's like that.
I said, well, not everybody knows Fred, because this company was the size of this room. And I said, and even if they do know Fred, it still hurts the programs, and it makes the executive team look bad. And he said to me, oh, Pat, I don't have time for that. I've got angry customers to deal with.
I've got lawsuits to read. I've got Wall Street. I don't have time for that.
Now, what do you notice about both of those examples? They didn't, neither of them didn't have the time and the energy to hold people accountable for their, missing their numbers four quarters in a row. Because all of us, even the wussiest of us leaders will hold somebody accountable for quantitative results that are problematic. They didn't have the time.
and the energy to hold people accountable for their behaviors. Ladies and gentlemen, behavioral accountability always precedes the results. And we see the behaviors that we know are going to lead to problems, and yet it's the hardest thing as a leader to hold somebody accountable or to confront them about their behavior because we might be wrong, and it's a little subjective, and it seems judgmental, and they might not like it.
So we just say, I'll just wait and see how the numbers turn out. Instead of having the courage, and it's courage. And love to confront them about the behaviors that they need to change.
See, I don't like holding people accountable. And I used to think it was because I cared so much about my employees that I didn't want them to feel bad. And one day I realized it was selfishness that kept me from doing that because I didn't want them to blame me for feeling bad and I didn't want to be around them when they did.
Okay, you know who taught me the brilliance and the importance of accountability? My son Connor, he's a management guru, but he's 15. But don't think I'm taking management advice from a 15-year-old, a teenager. He was 7 when he taught this to me. So Connor's a twin, and him and his brother Matthew...
got put into timeout. No, no, Matthew got put into timeout as I was getting ready to tell bedtime stories. So he had to leave the room and I'm in the bunk bed with Connor telling him a bedtime story.
About halfway through, Matthew comes back into the room and says, what are you, are you guys not done yet? And I said, no, we're halfway through the story. Like any good seven year old, he says, can I stay for the second half? Like any dad who's been around the block before I say, sure, come on in. Cause I'm a wuss.
So I start to tell the story. My wife comes in, Laura, thankfully not a wuss, and she says, what's he doing in here? And I'm like, well, he missed the first half. I thought he could stay for the second. She goes, no, Matt, you're out of here.
You're in timeout. So Matthew does the walk of shame. The emotional guy that I am, I feel really bad for him.
I feel sad that I put him through that. I turn around, Connor, my seven-year-old son, looks at me and he says this, and he did. Dad, if you don't hold him accountable, he's never going to learn the consequences of his actions.
Wah, wah, wah. Seven years old lecturing me, a management expert, about the need to hold people accountable. Here's the truth, though.
And here's how I learned it. If we love someone, and I hope you do, hope you love the people that work for you. You owe it to them to hold them accountable, even if they don't love you back for it.
Many times they are not going to. We know this as parents, you know, but we get in the working environment, we think, I don't really want to do that. We have to love someone enough, talk about selfless love, that we will hold them accountable even if they injure us for that. I have to move on here and talk about the last dysfunction of a team. The inattention to results.
The reason why we have to hold people accountable is because if we don't, they're going to think that the results don't matter. Because see, we have to hold them accountable to results. It's not always financial results. If it's at a church, it's saving souls. If it's feeding people, it's the hungry who get food.
And so how do we make sure that people are focused on results? Well what else would they pay attention to if not results? Well how about their budget, their department, their career, their status, their ego?
God bless you. think people in your organization are selfish enough to think about themselves over the team? I want to tell you a story from the world of sports.
Now, I don't know how many of you follow basketball, but there's a team called the Chicago Bulls that, you know Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan is pretty famous. Michael Jordan used to play basketball.
for the Chicago Bulls, and after he retired, the second best player on the Bulls was a guy named Scotty Pippen. Scotty Pippen was one of the best players in the NBA. And they had a great team around him and a great coach, and even after Jordan retired, they said, this team could very well win the championship again. And so they made it to the playoffs, and they were playing their hated rival, the New York Knicks, and they were on the sideline, tie game, 20,000 people in the arena.
National television, tie game with two seconds left in the game, the Bulls called timeout to take the last shot to win the game. The coach drew the team over to the sideline and he said here's what we're going to do, we're going to get the ball to this guy named Tony Kukoc, a European player who was a really good shooter and he's going to have the best chance to make the basket. Pippen looked at the sheet and said no, no I should get the ball, I'm the best player. And the coach said, no, no, no. See, Koo Coach will have a better chance to have an open shot.
So he's going to take it. And he goes, no, I get the ball. I'm the best player.
And the coach said, no, you don't get the ball. See, Koo Coach is going to get the ball. You're not.
You're going to be over here. And the player said, if I don't get the ball, ball, then I'm not going out on the court. The coach said, OK, you're in for Pippen.
They put him in. The best player sat on the bench. The fans were like, why is he not in the game?
And the announcers were like, did he foul out? Did he get injured? What happened?
No, he refused to play. The team made the shot, won the game, but that's irrelevant. The moral of this story is this. I wish everybody in this room, all of your organizations and churches, had people with the courage and audacity of Scottie Pippen, who could stand up in front of everyone and say, listen, you guys, it's not about the money.
the team, it's about me. Because then we'd know who to fire. I mean, that would be so nice. It's like, thank you for telling me.
I always thought that about you, but I wasn't sure, but thank you. But they're not going to do that. They're going to go to meetings and nod and smile. And that's why we have to make sure they're focused on results.
And the only way to do that is to hold them accountable out of love. And the only way to do that is to make sure that they're committed. The only way to get that commitment is if they disagree passionately.
And the only way to do that is if they trust each other. and are vulnerable. And I've gone a little bit over my time.
I'm sorry. Thank you for having me here. God bless you.
Sorry about that. Thank you. Thank you so much.