Today we're gonna talk about the thing that everybody wants to talk about money. I have an extra What do you think the biggest misconception that Christians have about money is? Most people look at money as something secular, as something evil, as something bad, as something worldly. We don't look at money as something spiritual. Wow.
There are over 2,000 verses in the Bible that deal with how to handle money and possessions. There is more in the Bible about how to handle money and possessions than it is about... Most pastors don't talk about money very well, not to mention that many pastors abuse money sometimes. We're going to go there.
Do you think money changes people? I think... This is The Deep End with Lecrae.
Ladies and gentlemen, today we're going to talk about the thing that everybody wants to talk about, money. But I'm not just going to sit up here and talk about money. I have an expert. Okay, you can't just get up here talking about money. I have an expert.
expert. Not only is he an expert, he's a lot of things. So let's go down the list of all the things that he is.
First of all, he was a highly recruited football player that was a star at the University of Tennessee, went on to play in the NFL, made his money in the NFL and decided to go into the financial wealth management business, worked for Morgan Stanley, one of the biggest financial wealth brokerage management firms in the world. And then. became a pastor.
Not only is he a pastor, he's my pastor, y'all. Today we have the pleasure of meeting with Lee Jenkins. Man, what an introduction, man. Hey, man, you did a lot of things.
Yeah, I just haven't determined what I wanted to... do when I grow up, you know, yet. I'm still trying to figure out who I am.
So, man, just done a lot of things, man. Yeah, it's an honor. Honor to have you.
Well, it's an honor to be your friend, to be your pastor. Honor to be on this podcast, man. You've had a lot of...
heavyweights on here. I mean, you know, Kurt Franklin, who's who? Jackie Hill Perry, who's who? Darius Daniels, who's who?
Now you got me. Who's he? First of all, what's crazy is that you have so many backstories with all of these people.
It's kind of crazy when you think about it. I think, you know, when we first met, you know, I was going through a weird time, kind of a tough time, and you were just very gracious. And.
And very, like, shepherding and welcoming, you know, invited me to be around and just was very, like, caring and kind. And it's everything you want in a pastor, honestly. Thank you. But I had no idea the back story. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Because you come across so humble and down to earth and approachable and attainable. But then I'm like, wait, you were in the NFL? Wait, you were the star of— At University of Tennessee, wait, you were managing some of the biggest accounts in the country financially. Yeah.
And, like, how does that happen? How do you get from there to here? Man.
Well, it's been an amazing journey. I've always been interested in a lot of different things. Even when I was a child, I was interested in sports.
I was interested in music. I played saxophone. Wow. I love going to church. Okay.
Yeah. And. And so I had this thing in me, this athletic thing, this business thing, and this creative thing in me all at the same time. I played in the band in high school. I didn't stop playing in the band until I started being a football player.
So I had all these varied interests. And so I've just always been curious about different things. So when I got to college, obviously at the University of Tennessee, man, I felt like... I could make it in the NFL because a lot of the guys who were a little bit older than me, they were playing in the NFL and I practiced against them every day. And I said, man, if they can do it, I can do it.
So that was always my dream. And then after my career ended, by the way, NFL for me stood for not for long. Which is important for people. And it's not a long time for most people. So it was a short stint with the New York Giants.
And then after that. I jumped from sports to the creative world. I became the road manager and business manager for the number one gospel group at that time in the world, which was the Winans.
Crazy. Yeah, that was really crazy, man. Question is?
Yeah, oh my God, I was right there. Question is, tomorrow, everything you touch is a song. So you're managing their money at this time? Managing money and them.
That's crazy. Yeah, and them as artists. Yeah. Traveling with them everywhere they went, every interview, everything. I was right there with them.
And this is when they first took off. They won their first Grammy when I was with them. Wow.
And, you know, of course, their albums were doing great. So that was a phenomenal experience. And I thought about making that my career.
OK. I studied business in college. Then I went to football. And next thing you know, I'm in the music industry.
And I thought about making that my career, but I just wanted to do something that I thought was a little bit more structured, a little bit broader. And so I eventually moved back to Atlanta, which was my hometown, got hired by Morgan Stanley. They sent me to New York City right on Wall Street. And I worked in the World Trade Center.
Wow. And one of those towers is where I went to work every day. for months and did my training. And then I came back to Atlanta, which was my hometown and started my career in the investment business and spent 25 years as an investment advisor, managing the portfolios for multi, multimillionaires, a few billionaires.
And basically I was in sales because you got to sell people, convince people to entrust their assets to you. And that's what I did for 25 years. And then.
After that, I became a pastor, started a church from scratch. We've gone from zero people 12 years ago to almost 4,000 members. And it's been quite a ride.
Man, God has been breathing on the things that you touched. It's crazy. But you skipped over something that I wanted.
You managed the wealth of billionaires. So billionaires entrusted you with their money. Yes, they did. If anybody's watching this, billionaires trusted this man with their money. Yeah.
You need to listen and pay attention to what he's going to say because I don't have a billion dollars. So, you know what I mean? If I had a billion dollars, I wouldn't know who to trust it with.
But clearly people trusted you with that level of money. What, like, obviously, you know, I know a little bit more of your story, but you didn't grow up with money. No, I didn't. So, how... For a lot of people who don't grow up with money, I feel like they go one of two ways when they get some.
They blow it all or they just hold on to it and don't do anything with it. What lessons did you learn or did you start applying based off of your experience? Well, it's interesting that I ended up in a career advising and investing money for billionaires and multi-multi-millionaires when I did not come from that kind of business. background. In fact, my background was the opposite.
I didn't even know what a stock was, a bond was until I got in college. And I barely knew it then. So here's what was driving me.
I grew up in a home and we struggled immensely from a financial standpoint. My father was an alcoholic, very, very inspirational to me. because he was a former college football player. He was at all my games, came to a lot of my practices. He was my biggest fan. Very inspirational, but very irresponsible as a father, especially financially.
So we struggled a lot. There were eviction notices. There were things that, lights getting cut off, electricity getting cut off. So as a kid, I had this drive to want to be financially successful because I had tasted what semi-poverty looked like, and I didn't like it.
Furthermore, I saw the damage it did, you know, to my mother struggling, just overall the stress. So I kind of made up my mind when I was about eight or nine years old that whatever being a millionaire is, that's what I want to be. So when I went to college, I studied business and I wanted to know, how does this economy work?
How are these big buildings getting built? How are people able to drive around in Mercedes Benz's and BMWs and live in mansions? And most of the people who look like me, who were black, and at least this was primarily in the early 1980s, you know, when I was coming out of college, most of the people who look like me, who made a lot of money, were either entertainers.
or athletes. Now there were successful doctors and lawyers and entrepreneurs, they just weren't showcased. So we didn't see successful Black people showcased in the 80s until the Cosby show came on television, until the Huxtable family.
That's true. Yeah, man. Other than that, it was basketball players, football players, singers, dancers, actors.
So I was intrigued by To be perfectly honest with you, how white people and Jewish people made so much money and black people didn't. Why didn't we have the kind of wealth? And so that became one of my missions to learn about this thing called wealth management.
And as I learned, I wanted to pass it on to other people. So I just fell in love with it. And then the last thing is when I went to the NFL, I had some money. and many of my friends had money and most of us didn't know what to do with it because we weren't trained in financial stewardship.
We weren't, we weren't, uh, talking about wealth wasn't something that we, uh, were trained in, in our schools and our churches or in our families. So now you got money in your hands and you don't know what to do with it. So what do you do with something that you don't understand? You abuse it.
Yeah. You blow it. Yeah. So I did what most 22-year-olds do when they come into quick money, and that is, although I had the academic knowledge, I didn't have the discipline to hold on to it.
So money came and went in my life pretty quick as a one-year pro athlete, and I made up my mind from here out, Lord, if you bless me with another. penny literally i'm gonna steward it well and i'm gonna build this into wealth by the grace of god that that's very interesting like a couple things you said like number one is being 22 yeah and encountering more money than you've ever seen in your life yeah what do you feel like the pitfall for most athletes is because i'm not even contemplating the fact that they're super young so what what is the pitfall what don't they get or what are they not understanding well people who don't come from money obviously or or not obviously but people don't come from money sometimes have an inordinate desire to spend money So, for instance, when I got drafted by the New York Giants and I went to the stadium to practice, I noticed a couple of things about the cars that the guys had on the team. Most of the black players had Porsches, Benzes, BMWs, top of the line. Most of the white guys had pickup trucks or American sedans. Now, why was that?
For some reason. We, and I'm including myself, had this inordinate desire to show off our wealth. We kind of felt like we had something to prove.
There was something in us that wanted to be accepted because maybe we felt like we weren't accepted prior to that. And some of that is because of the way we grew up. I mean, racism and bigotry can do it. a number on you from a self-esteem standpoint.
And poverty can too. And struggling, financial struggle can. So some of these white guys, and I'm generalizing here, many of them came from very solid middle class or affluent backgrounds. So the first thing that they did, they didn't go out and buy Mercedes Benz with their bonus jet or big house, or they didn't have to buy mama a house and buy sister and brother cars.
But many of us felt like- We had to do that. Yeah. So that's a lot of pro athletes have so many other obligations or they feel like they have obligations or they're trying to satisfy some things that they never had an opportunity to do or to experience. And that causes. to make sometimes dumb financial decisions.
Man, that's really good because even as I'm thinking about what you're saying, I think even when I began to make some money, I wanted the symbols of wealth more than I wanted the wealth itself. It's like I had to make sure people knew I was valuable. And my wife, on the other hand, she came from a more middle-class family.
Her dad... you know, pulled himself up from his bootstraps and became a fireman and built houses and did stuff. And so she had a more solid background and she was always like reeling me in like, no, don't put no rims on that.
And you don't have to do all those things. So it makes a lot of sense how insecurities and all those things. And even when I got my first big check, my thought process was I got to help my mom. Yes.
You know, that was kind of my thought process. And so I never even considered some people. That's not even in there.
It's not even in there on their radar. Man. Yeah. But for us, it was more the symbols. We were more driven as young African-Americans, athletes.
At that time, I was an athlete. But I would say that this is prevalent in a lot of different genres. Oh, yeah.
We were more interested in the symbols of wealth rather than the substance of wealth. And that's a big difference between the symbols and the substance. Break that down a little bit.
What is... Well, the substance... of wealth is building real wealth, which is building your net worth. Net worth, when you say a millionaire, you mean your assets minus your liabilities. Whatever that number is, you take your assets minus your liability, that means net worth.
So substance of wealth from a financial standpoint is your net worth, building it over time. However, most young athletes, especially many of the black athletes, we were enamored by income. Income is what you make. You can't pass your income down from generation to generation.
That's a wealth issue. So we were enamored by income how much money we were making and then transferring that income into status symbols Wow and Neither one of those bill wealth So I had to reorientate myself to what does? wealth mean financially speaking, okay, and Nobody taught me that When I grew up wealth was What kind of car you?
you drove, what kind of house you lived in, what kind of clothes you wore, what kind of jewelry you had. That was wealth. But wealth to some of my other colleagues who did not look like me was what kind of house you had, but it wasn't necessarily the biggest house on the street.
They would try to buy the smallest house on the street and the most expensive neighborhood, but the smallest house. They were not. enamored by luxury high-end luxury vehicles yeah they certainly weren't buying expensive clothes and jewelry now they eventually did yeah but that wasn't the first thing that they did so the symbols were a byproduct of the substance wow but we go for the symbols first yeah and never experienced the substance of what that was a master class Yes. Yeah. Okay.
That's really interesting that you say that. I remember when I was with this particular brand and I was sponsored by them and I mean, they gave me everything. They sent like products to my house all the time. I felt like, like I was just this ambassador that was just getting loved on and getting everything that they had to offer.
And I want that for you. I want you to get everything we have to offer. And that means you need to become a part of the B-Side family. Because once you do, it's like we sponsor you now.
It's like we want to give you all the bonus content, the courses, all of the things that would make you the better version of yourself. So make sure you subscribe to the B-Side so that you can get access to all this bonus content made just for you. I want to... talk about because you're a pastor yes pastors and money is a is a big problem especially like in the black community yes it is right like there's this like terrible history or relationship of what the black community thinks about pastors and money. So I do want to get there, but I want to, from your perspective, what do you think the biggest misconception that Christians have about money is?
What don't we realize? Wow. Well, I think that is the first misconception. How about this?
God and money, Christians and money, then it comes down to pastors and money. But let's talk about... God and money.
Most people look at money as something secular, as something evil, as something bad, as something carnal, as something worldly. We don't look at money as something spiritual. That's the number one problem, because money, handling money, stewarding money, tells us more, really, about our spiritual lives than almost anything. And let me give you an example.
Yeah, break that down. Jesus said, where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. In fact, in Luke chapter 19, he challenged a guy named Zacchaeus. Well, actually, he didn't even have to challenge him.
Zacchaeus saw Jesus passing by, and Zacchaeus was the head of the IRS in Jericho. And the text says he was very rich because they ripped a lot of people off. Scammer. That's right. He was a scammer.
He made big money. Yeah. And when he encountered Jesus, he said, Jesus, half of my possessions I'm going to give to the poor. He said, if I've defrauded anyone of anything, and he had, he says, I'm going to give them four times as much back. And Jesus said, today, salvation has come to this house.
In other words, Zacchaeus, I know you are a changed man. Bye. Not what you prayed, by not going to church, but by what you just said you were going to do with your money.
Wow. Because our money is a barometer of our hearts. One more example, Luke 18, 18, the rich young ruler. Yeah.
He said, Jesus, what must I do to inherit eternal life? Jesus says, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to... through this. He said, man, I've been in church my whole life. I've done all of these since I was a little kid.
Jesus said, you lack one thing. Give your possessions to the poor and come and follow me. And Jesus said, the man went away sad.
Yeah. And then he says how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. So here's my point. Both of those guys were challenged not by how much church they went to, not by how the prayers they prayed or how much scripture they knew, but by their money. So money is often used as a barometer of our spiritual life.
Every spending decision is a spiritual decision. Sheesh. Because what we do with money matters.
So people look at money as something, again, carnal, bad, instead of something that God uses in our life to really draw us closer to him because we have to make so many decisions about it. So that's the first problem is we don't look at money the right way as something spiritual. And the biggest thing is we don't look at it as God being the owner of what we have and we being the steward.
Yeah. Stuart has to satisfy the owner with what they do. Okay.
So that's number one. So then we have this warped attitude about money, and then we bring it into the church. Okay. We get into the church and the money.
That's exactly right. The church and the money. Okay. And because we aren't taught about it except for in one area, and that is giving.
Giving. And giving is important. Yeah.
But God owns all of it, not just the 10%. No. And we have to learn how to manage all of it. So if you constantly tell people to give, give, give, and you're not telling them how to get out of debt, how to build wealth, how to spend wisely and strategically, how to get their credit together, how to bless the next generation, how to save, how to leave a legacy, then you really aren't empowering people financially.
It comes across as if it. as if it is selfish. So, most pastors don't talk about money very well. They either talk about the giving, or they don't talk about it at all, and they don't know how to talk about it, because many of them struggle in this area, too.
Not to mention that many pastors... just like anybody else, abuse money sometimes. We're going to go there.
In their own personal lives. Okay. Don't make wise decisions. And people see that, and it causes a lot of skepticism.
Yeah. So. If I'm, let's say I'm churchgoer number five, I'm struggling with church because I walk in the building and I'm asked to help put some paint on the walls.
And then I look on social media and I see the pastor in a private jet. Yeah. What? What should be different? Like, why am I bothered by that?
I think you're bothered by it, and most people are bothered by it, is because of the way, the primary way, most pastors, not all, but the primary way most pastors get paid. The church is a nonprofit institution that is primarily dependent upon the charitable giving of people. When you manage or are the chief steward of a... organization that is dependent on people's giving, there really should be a level of modesty. Now, I can't define what modesty is because that's different for everybody, but there should be a level of modesty because that money came from the sacrificial giving of people.
So when you take money and you spend it on extremely extravagant things that came from the sacrificial giving of people, those two aren't congruent. It causes skepticism. It causes doubt in people's motives.
And it just doesn't look good. So a lot of, and this is a, this is not true of most pastors. Yeah.
But it is certainly a stereotype of many black pastors. Right. The ones who. get a lot of looks a lot of time.
No doubt. So I think one thing is modesty is very important. That's good.
And then making sure that you teach and preach the whole counsel of financial stewardship, not just the giving part. Yeah. And I think that's the main problem. Yeah, that's really good.
Because as you say that, I'm thinking about like the single mother who... Life has changed on Sundays and through the community group and everything. And she's like, man, this is my home. These are my people, my community. And I'm scraping.
And she's like the widow who gives the little bit that she has. And then it's kind of like, what is going on with this little? I'm at home. lighting the fire, you know, with matches, the gas fire and the pastors on a private jet.
And I get what you're saying. Like, it's kind of like a weird thing. Yeah, we have to be careful.
See, I come from the business world. And now I'm a pastor. What I would do and buy as a businessman. I think twice about that as a pastor. In fact, some things I just don't do.
I mean, I lived in a very big mansion when I was in business. Well, when I became a pastor, I downsized, but that was for a couple. of reasons. Sure. I mean, obviously my children, we were empty nesters, so my children had already gone to college and there were some other things.
Then I got the t-shirt, been there, done that, and it's not all it's cracked up to be anyway. Property taxes. Yeah, man. But there are some decisions I made as a businessman regarding personal purchases that I would not make as a pastor. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't live a comfortable and a good lifestyle and that I don't appreciate quality things.
And obviously, it's different for everybody. But yes, there is a certain amount of soberness and wisdom. I believe I have to use because of the way I make some of my money. Yeah. Not all of it because I'm still an entrepreneur.
I have businesses and investments outside of what I do as a pastor. But still, I'm primarily known as a pastor. One of the things you said that I think I haven't heard anybody say before, but you said you don't just ask people for money. You teach them how to steward the money that they have.
Does that make sense? Do you feel like the Bible or Jesus gives any principles on business at all? Oh, man.
The Bible is full of business principles and financial principles. In fact, there are over 2,000 verses in the Bible that deal with how to handle money and possessions. Okay.
16 out of the 38 parables in the Bible deal with how to handle money and possessions. Wow. So there is more in the Bible about how to handle money and possessions than it is about.
heaven, hell, love, faith, many of the things that we talk about. And so... So yes, handling money, doing business, all of that.
First of all, it's a part of our lives, whether we make it spiritual or not. And it is. It's a part of our lives.
We ought to know how to deal with it from God's perspective. But secondly, it still tells us a lot about our hearts, money, our treasure. Our hearts gravitate to wherever our treasure and our money.
is. So people don't understand God's perspective about money and business. And if you don't understand something, you're going to abuse it or you're going to handle it the way the world handles it. That's good. So because Christians really have this weird relationship with money, like I see either there's like the, the the prosperity Christians or the poverty Christians, right?
Like this tends to be like you're on one side or the other. Like, oh, if you love God, give it all away because this life doesn't matter anyway. You're going to go to heaven.
Or if you love God, then he should bless you with everything under the sun. It's an uncomfortable kind of conversation, right? Like I personally.
Well, I'm just telling a little bit of my story. Like, I came to faith. I came to faith. And I didn't know anything about either of these kind of camps. Yeah.
So at the same time, I got one person ministering to me. who is probably more on the poverty side. Like, hey, Jesus didn't have a place to lay his head, so neither should we. And then I have a church that I'm attending. It's on the prosperity side.
It's like, hey, I remember one Sunday they said, I want you to bring some cologne to church. and when you spray it on or when we bring it i'm gonna bless it and every time you spray this cologne on prosperity is gonna come your way wow so i'm on both sides and i'm like wait which one is which and how does this work um and i ended up saying this one doesn't make sense to me so i'm gonna go to the poverty side but then what happened is i started to have this weird um this this thought process that money was bad and you and i started looking at like abraham and Solomon and Job and Joseph. And I was like, wait, they are rich.
Very rich. So I don't know what to do with that, so to speak. And even on one of my albums, I said, I'd rather have a dollar in my pocket than a million because I was like, I don't trust myself in money.
And so what do we say? Like, how should we look at that? That's a great question, man, and a wonderful way you framed that. So there are basically two.
extremes the what I call the poverty mentality okay and then I'm gonna call it the prosperity theology okay okay right in between is what I call the stewardship theology okay and that means that we manage our money yep according to God's principles and our first responsibility is to please God. Okay. That's our first responsibility.
And in order to do that, you have to view yourself as a steward, meaning that you don't own it all. So the poverty theology is not healthy because it, limits what God can do in your life. And it's really a sign of people's low self-esteem and how they look at money as being evil.
No, money is not evil. It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. And we've been taught that money is evil. It's not evil.
But money can be dangerous if it's not managed well and if you don't have the right perspective. Now, the prosperity theology is mostly... about everybody having uninterrupted health and wealth, and the more faith you have, the more money you will have. Well, the Apostle Paul had a whole lot of faith, and he struggles sometimes.
He says, I know how it feels to be full, and I know how it feels to have an empty stomach. So that's not a good thing. Yeah. But— I believe that we are called pretty much to be like the parable of the stewards in Matthew.
And it's basically to maximize your stewardship, to be the best you can or to do the best you can do. what you have. Because one day we're going to stand before God. And if I was supposed to, I'm just using this as an example, to be a multimillionaire and to build wealth and to do great things with it, and then I don't do that, then I haven't been a good steward. That's good.
Um, the bottom line is handling money is a spiritual issue. Yeah. But it has not been taught well. Either people have been beat up and made to feel guilty if they made money or they were told they were worldly or they felt like, hey, I'm a child of the king.
I'm supposed to live like a king. I'm supposed to drive and wear the best of everything to represent Christ. Yeah.
And that's not the truth either. Yeah. So we just have to find that balance. So one of the things that I've seen, and I don't know if I've seen this in my church going experience, but what I've seen at Eagle's Nest, your church, our church, is a lot of wealthy Christians. Yes.
And for some people, it could see it and be like, wait, why is everybody what's going on here? Right. Is it a prosperity spot? But one of the things that you have done and I've seen you do it is you've networked people and put people together. So like this person who's starting a business can connect with this person who has this large business and then they work in this business grows.
I've seen you send people to someone's coffee shop because they just started it. And then all of a sudden they're. they're thriving. Do you, like, we tend to mistrust rich people.
There's a lot of people who are doing what I would call them rich at the church, right? Should there be more rich Christians in the world or should there not? Like, what is it like? Wow, that's an interesting question.
I'm going to answer that question in a couple of ways. I'm going to say, first of all, I mean, obviously it's the grace of God that has blessed our church financially and blessed us with some of the people we have. Yeah. But we often attract who we are. And sometimes we either attract people as pastors or as business people or as people in general.
We attract people and or we repel people. people. I believe my business background has helped me to understand and talk to business people in a way that resonates with them.
In fact, I think Jesus did that too, by the way. He could just really resonate with different kinds of people. And so I had a wife to tell me when I first started the church, she says, you are the first pastor to get my husband off. off of the golf course on Sunday mornings.
Now, he loves the Lord, but Sunday morning was his time to himself. And he played golf, and he occasionally went to church on Sundays. She said, he beats me out of the bed now on Sundays to come to church to hear you.
And it's because he feels like your messages really relate to him as a business person. So, I am a big... big proponent of people maximizing the talents that God has given them. Because ultimately, all of us will stand before God, and we want to hear, well done, thy good and faithful servant. That's good.
So I don't care what financial level you're on, we are called, and we have a mandate to be good stewards. However, I do believe that we should use money as a tool. To help advance God's kingdom. So if God gives us money to whom much is given, much is required.
So I often challenge and equip our well-to-do people, our wealthy people, to use their money the right way. And I believe it resonates with people. Yeah. So, but I have to be first partaker in that as a pastor. And so, yeah, man, we...
We aren't afraid. I've had people to say that when they came to Eagles Nest, that their financial life got transformed. And I said, well, how did that happen? They said being in the environment, being around, rubbing shoulders with millionaires and multimillionaires, hearing how people talk about money and giving and seeing how we impact the community financially, how we support other businesses. Mm hmm.
It rubbed off on them. Yeah. And that now they view money with a different perspective as a tool that God can use to advance his kingdom and to transform people's lives. What do you say to people?
Because I've had people approach me with this as well. What do you say to people who say, well, with all of this money going around. Where's the impact?
Where are the missions work? Where's the soup kitchen? Like, that should be bigger and louder. What is your response to that? Every church has a different assignment, just like every Christian has a different assignment.
And there are many ways as to impact the poor. to do overseas missions. One of the ways we do it is by partnering with people who do it way better than us. So we partner, we give money to mission organizations so they can hire missionaries.
We support missionaries. We do go to soup kitchens, but we support ministries who do that better than what we can do. So there are different ways. to get the job done.
But yes, that should be a vital part. If God has given a church or a person the ability to manage wealth, then you should use that for God's glory. So...
You have a reel that went kind of viral. Yeah. And it said if you took all the money out of wealthy people's hands and gave it to poor people, that the rich would be rich again and the poor people would lose all their money.
That's right. Break that down. Yeah, that shook a lot of people up. Yeah.
All right. So I got to give you a concept first. Okay. The concept is wealth is built from the inside out. not the outside in.
Wealth is who you are more than what you have. So many of the people I mentioned in that post, in that social media post, I mentioned Jeff Bezos. I mentioned Robert Smith, who's the wealthiest African-American in America. I mentioned Oprah Winfrey. And there are others, Warren Buffett and many other people.
said if you took their money away, took them from multi-billionaire status down to zero, that within a three to five year period, they would be back to millionaire status and soon to be back to billionaire status. But if you gave their money to poor people, many of those poor people, let's just say you spread their money out and just gave a million dollars away to a a whole bunch of poor people, many of those poor people, not all, but many of them would be back broke in three to four or five years. I don't want to cut you off.
Hold your thought. But I know this to be true because my cousin won the lottery. That's a great example.
Lottery winners. And was broke again. That's right. Right after, but go ahead. Exactly right.
Because wealth is who you are, not just what you have. Yeah. Wealth has to be a inward realization before it becomes an outward manifestation.
You have to have the right things on the inside first, like a good work ethic, integrity, wisdom, knowledge. You have to know how to build relationships with people. Yes, you do need to have connections.
That counts, all of that. So the reason I believe that went viral is because it was true. And a lot of people don't want to deal with it because some of those very people who were upset about that, if we gave them a million dollars, they would go blow it. That's right.
Many of them, not all of them. Sure. So there is a certain skill that needs to be developed in people in order to teach them how to manage wealth and how to build wealth.
Because if you don't know how to use something, if you don't know the purpose of it, you're more inclined to abuse it. Yeah. Or. to lose it yeah so some things are just a reality so i want to talk about what some people will call an elephant in the room but it's a reality yeah and i'm i'm you mentioned it earlier but like i want you to like from your experience because i know you've managed different people's money yes and you've been in relationships with different people you There is a difference between how black people and white people handle money. It is.
What is that? Well, I'm going to say two primary things. Okay. Number one is history.
All right. We have two different histories. Black people, unlike other ethnic groups, did not come to America. for religious freedom, for financial freedom, or for other freedoms.
Yeah. Okay? We came here to be a part of an economic system called chattel slavery. We came here to work.
We didn't come here to build wealth, to be free. Wow. Other ethnic groups came to America because they saw opportunities. Italians, Jewish. That's exactly right.
Yeah. Okay. But we didn't come here with that in mind.
And we were not allowed to build wealth and to participate in this great experiment called democracy, called capitalism. We weren't allowed to participate in that for almost 250 years, okay, for multiple generations. And then even after that, we had quasi-slavery.
It was called Jim Crow. and legalize segregation. And so we had 25 decades of chattel slavery, where we weren't even considered human beings, let alone could start businesses and build wealth. Then we had another 10 decades of legalized segregation, where we couldn't take advantage of being an American.
And then we've had five, almost six decades of freedom. So here's the deal. We haven't had the opportunity because of our history to pass wealth down generation to generation, to build wealth, to learn about wealth.
And so other ethnic groups had more of a head start on us or they had a different mentality when they came here. So that's number one. Our history is different. OK. Number two, unfortunately, our habits.
have been different, our history and our habits, how we spend money, how we relate to money, what money means to us. Some of that is because of our history. But the bottom line is we have been more inclined to take advantage of the symbols of wealth instead of the substance of wealth. We have been more prolific spenders than producers.
And the white culture, white people, 14% of white people out of the whole white population are multi-millionaires. Wow. Barely 2% of black people, out of all black people, are millionaires.
Okay? So, there are multiple statistics. That put us at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to wealth building.
We have more debt compared to our income. We have the worst credit. We have the least amount of wealth. But yet we're the biggest spenders.
Now, a lot of that is changing. because we're talking about this. We are demystifying this whole wealth building game. I like some of that. There are some issues I have with it too.
So the bottom line, yes, there are some cultural differences when it comes to wealth. Because of the history is different, because the perspective is different, and because the habits are different. That's good.
But that is changing. Yeah. And I have seen tremendous change in the last 20 to 25 years. years yeah yeah i i'm personally in that place where i think i went through the season of i made money and i was like well i i gotta hold on to this because i don't know if i'll ever see it again.
That's right. And people would say, hey, you should invest in this and you should do this. And I'd be like, I don't know if I can do that because I'm the first generation of wealth and I'm scared to not, you know, a good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children. I'm trying to be a good man.
That's right. So you don't want to lose it. Right.
But I do notice that like my business partner who's white, he's like, let's invest in this. Let's do this. Let's do that. But he came from wealth. Yes.
And you know what I mean? So there's a different mentality, a different level. And I'm trying to understand, as I've gotten older, how to, like, wrestle with these dynamics and not care about the symbols. Absolutely.
And care more about the substance. Yes. But that is something that jumps in my mind.
Well, it's the elephant in the room. When I started in the investment business, I noticed that on holidays, my colleagues. white and Jewish colleagues whose offices were right near mine, they were all going to their vacation homes.
And I was like, wait a minute, guys, we're the same age. We make around the same amount of money. How can they have not only a home here in the Atlanta area, but they have a vacation home. Two homes.
Yeah, two homes. And they're 30, 32 years old. Oh, wow. So I just asked one of them, hey, man, how are you all able?
to afford that. And then they began to tell me how, and this was a Jewish person who told me this, he said, man, when people die in our family, they leave an inheritance. He says, I've gotten inheritances from aunts. uncles.
He said, that's a big deal in our culture. You don't die broke. And you don't manage money without generations in mind.
That's why God says he is the God of Abraham, Isaac. and Jacob. And so many other cultures think more generationally than maybe those of us in the black culture.
Because we were just trying to survive decades ago. We weren't thinking necessarily about our grandchildren and our children's children. So I found out that many of my colleagues were benefiting off of what what their parents, grandparents, uncles and aunts did.
And they were able to accumulate wealth. And how they looked at wealth was different than how I looked at wealth. The first time I started making money, the first thing I went and did is bought a $50,000 Mercedes Benz.
Which was stupid. I always tell people that that $50,000 Mercedes Benz probably cost me a million dollars. The reason it cost me a million dollars is because I was a businessman. cost me a million dollars is because the same time I was buying that Mercedes Benz, one of my white buddies was buying a condo in Destin, Florida.
And Destin, Florida was a little sleepy beach town. And he said, hey, man, there's some deals down there and you ought to put your money down here. And I said, no, man, I want to buy the car of my dreams. I was making over six figures. And that's what you do.
You want to show off. your wealth you want to show people that you're making money mm-hmm but I found out that wealth whispers riches are loud mmm okay wealth whispers wealth doesn't tell everybody what they're doing wealth doesn't show off sheesh but riches cars clothes jewelry is loud I want it to be loud when I first started making money. I wanted people to see it. But my buddy, who was buying condominiums in a sleepy beach town, which is now bustling, he was whispering.
He didn't care about showing off stuff. So I always tell people that $50,000 Mercedes Benz cost me a million dollars because of what I was taught about money as a black man. Growing up, money was and wealth was always tangible. How you looked, what you drove, what you wore.
Yeah. Instead of what you had that could bless people. for generations to come. Wealth whispers.
Riches allowed. That's a t-shirt. That's a book.
That's a book. You need to write that book. Yeah, man. That's a book.
I'll buy that book right now. That's a book. Okay.
For Tanisha and Jerome, who made... $50,000 a year and they're like what does this conversation have what did like what tangibly do you give to the people who are like man I want to be in that place I'm not there what do they do okay before I answer that question I want to say something about this wealth building culture that we live in yeah all of the online gurus yes financially talk about so i'm going to talk about the good and bad and the ugly and then i'm going to answer that question let me tell you what the good is the good is People now are more cognizant about financial-related matters. They really do care now. 20, 30 years ago, nobody talked about the stock market except people who had money.
Now I see everyday people talking about building wealth and talking about entrepreneurship. And I think that's good. And a lot of the online gurus and social media, it's made... building wealth. attainable for the average everyday person can now feel like they can do this.
It's not as mystical. They've demystified it. They've brought Wall Street to Main Street. And I like that.
Okay. The bad thing is many of the people who are making their money have never built wealth, have never done what they're telling other people to do. That's so true. And so they've never lived it out.
So, hey. I'm glad they're talking about it, but I think you got to be careful who you listen to. But the third thing that I'm concerned about is many people are making money and idle.
OK, so the bad part about that is now people feel like if they aren't. making a million dollars, if they're not a millionaire, then they're a financial failure. They feel like the goal is to become a multimillionaire. The goal is to do this, to do that.
And no, that's not the goal. I think Proverbs 30 verses eight and nine, the writer says, don't give me too much money where I will forget about God. But I don't want to have so little of it where I would.
Still, give me enough to meet my needs. That's good. And the writer says, give me my portion. So I want to make it very straight to people that being a millionaire is not the goal.
Being a multimillionaire is not the goal. Being a billionaire is not the goal. When that becomes a goal, it usually becomes an idol. Yeah. Okay.
Being financially free is the goal. that is being free to live a life that can glorify God financially, to bless other people, and to carry out whatever the calling is that God has on your life. That's the goal. And when you do that, you have this wonderful thing called contentment. Come on.
That's what you have. Work with it. And you can be discontent and be a multimillionaire. Mm.
As a matter of fact, a lot of rich people, because remember, I've worked with them, they are some of the most discontent people around. That's so good. Okay.
So what do you tell people who are just trying to build wealth? Where do you start? Well, the first thing you have to have is the right perspective.
And that's not always the goal of becoming a millionaire. It is the goal of being financially free. Yeah.
In a very simple way, the first thing you need to do is to know how to, all of these starts with an S, seize money. What do I mean by that? What are you called to do? What is your gift?
What are you going to do to go out and to maximize the talent God has given you? Where has God planted you? See, a lot of people are planted in the wrong soil.
And they'll never reach their financial potential because they aren't doing the thing that God has called them to do. So you want to look at the soil you are planted in and make sure that you are doing something that is conducive to your talent. OK, second thing is how you how you save money.
No, how you spend money. OK, because once you earn money, you have to. Spend it strategically. And the number one thing is spending less than what you earn. And that sounds simple, but it's very hard because the more money most people make, the more they spend.
We keep raising our lifestyle. This works on any level. I don't care if you're making $40,000 or $400,000 or $4 million.
You have to spend below your income. That's good. Secondly.
you need to handle debt. Okay. And I'm going to call that how you save money, meaning debt eats up your money. Yeah. Okay.
So getting out of debt is very important because it does allow you to save because it frees up more of your money to build wealth. And so now there is a way to use debt strategically, but for the most part, most people use debt destructively, not. constructively.
So you got to seize money the right way. You have to spend money the right way. You need to save money the right way. And then you need to sell money the right way.
Meaning that while you are doing these things. seizing it, meaning getting in the right soil, saving it, spending it, you need to be giving. You need to make sure that you are being a blessing to the kingdom of God and to other people. So those are just a few of the things. But the key thing from a practical standpoint is spending less than you earn, is taking the difference and...
putting that money to work in some kind of vehicle that will eventually work for you. You have to feed investments so one day the investments will feed you. And investments could be stock market, it could be a business, it could be some kind of entrepreneurial endeavor, it could be real estate. The goal is to have enough money to put away so it can grow.
and then help you fund your lifestyle. That's good. I can hear, I heard an old school, my grandma's church in there, like you got to seize it, you got to spend it, you got to save it, and you got to sow it.
But there is one word that a lot of people neglect, and one strategy, and that is getting on a budget. And what do I mean a budget? That can mean different things to different people.
So I really don't like to use the budget word a lot. I like to use making sure you have a strategic spending plan. That just means we're all going to spend money. We all enjoy spending money. What's your plan for it?
If you don't tell your money where to go, you're going to wonder where it went. And I don't care what level you are on. So overriding all of those things is a spending plan. That's good. Now, every time I go to the store, get some ice cream, you know, get something to eat, somebody brings me an iPad and says, we just have one question to ask you.
And then it's give 20%, 10, 18. And generally, I do, I think, 20%. Yeah. But recently I was challenged with that because it's like, man, I'm giving 20% without blinking an eye because it's the right thing to do. And the church is asking just for 10%. Just 10%?
What is the biggest misconception or understanding about tithes? Wow. Man, that's such a great question. Because we find it easy to tip. Yeah.
We find it easy to go in the mall and to buy what we want to buy. It's amazing how small a dollar is when we're shopping, but how big a dollar is when we're in church. In other words, all of a sudden, that 10% seems like a whole bunch of money.
So the bottom line is... is it's a trick of the enemy to keep people, number one, and this is going to be very different, from being closer to Christ. When we give to God through the church or through ministries, when we sacrificially give a portion of what we have to God, it's not just a financial transaction.
It's a heart. heart transaction. Because where our treasure is, our heart will be also. So literally, when we give, it should bring us closer to Jesus. But we find it easier to give toward other things.
And when we give toward those other things, spending money, other things that have nothing to do with the kingdom of God, guess what happens to our heart? It becomes closer to those things. and further away from the Lord. So other institutions and entities aren't afraid to ask us to give.
But then when the church and the kingdom says, hey, we need resources to build this building, to do ministry, all of a sudden we get all uptight about it. That's a trick of the enemy. And it's one of the ways that the devil... keeps us focused on the wrong things. Yeah.
Okay, so a lot of people say money changes people. Even in the scriptures, Solomon had a lot of money. Yes, he did.
And he did a lot of bad things. Yes. King David got rich, and he took a woman that didn't belong to him. Yes, he did.
So do you think money changes people? Yes and no. Okay. Mostly no. Okay.
Money doesn't necessarily change people. Money magnifies who people already are. So, if you have adultery already in your heart, and you're broke, you're not going to be able to carry it out. That's good.
But when you get money, you have choices. you have more freedom to live out what's in your heart so money gives you options money gives you freedom money allows you to live out your fantasies and and gives you influence and clout and when you have influence and clout then you can do things that you wouldn't normally do so the true character of a person actually comes out when they have money that's good Okay. So now does it change people a little bit? Yeah.
On the outside. Yeah. You can drive a better car.
You can wear better clothes. You can hang out with people who you wouldn't normally hang out with. So yeah, there are outward things that obviously change and probably should change and nothing is wrong with that. But inwardly money magnifies who we are. That's good.
Yeah. I've always felt like a decently attractive guy. But I think women thought I was cuter once I got a little money.
I'm just being honest. No doubt. My DMs didn't look the same, you know, before people was like, wait a minute. That's right. Yes.
Yeah, man. It makes us look better. And all of a sudden, an ugly guy becomes handsome all of a sudden. Exactly. Exactly.
I would agree. Yes. Listen, he's qualified to tell you about the scriptures and your portfolio. I don't know. And then.
You know, he can talk football with you all day. So it's just, where do we, what in the world? Man, listen, I appreciate you for being here. More importantly, I appreciate you for just being in my wife and our lives and my children.
They love going to church. Thank you, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying like that.
They beat us out the door to go to Sunday service. And that's a blessing. You know, I'm talking to somebody who was extremely church hurt, had a lot of baggage and Eagles. And that's, has been a blessing for us, man. So I'm, I'm honored and I appreciate you being.
being here and sharing your wisdom. Well, let me say this. You've been a blessing to me, man.
I love hip-hop music, and you have always been my favorite artist. Hey, come on. I want you to know that, man.
And you minister to me too, man. You get me thinking through your music. But a lot of people who are celebrities, sometimes when you meet them, you're disappointed. It's like, oh, man, I thought this person was this or that. Man, when I met you.
I was blown away at your character, your integrity, your humility, how much you love God, your family. You're a great father. So, man, I'm honored to be in your life. Sheesh. I want you to know that.
That's the truth. I'm going to cry off camera, y'all. Man, thank you again.
Appreciate you. It was great. I hope I helped some people today.
What?