watch so like this is the this is the weirdest thing I've ever said on YouTube If you handshake with someone in the next 10 seconds you will touch your own nose you're trying to smell their hand it is Vanessa van Edwards it's a human lie detector she is the founder and Lead investigator at the science of people the woman who used to hide in the bathroom to avoid people at parties and is now the most captivating person in most any room believing you can't succeed in love life or Business Without first mastering it's almost impossible to be charismatic when you're feeling afraid it comes from a study they split them up into two different groups the second group they had them wear sweat pads and Skydive people who smelled the fear sweat pads their own fear part of their amydala lit up their brain could smell that Fier sweat and they began to feel afraid this is a study that changed my life okay let's dig in [Music] Vanessa thanks for a cold brew and everything Brew Starbucks you should definitely be paying us come on every interview I do is a Starbucks logo in it it's very clever by the way because start an interview with here's your cold brew is basically saying this is going to be good yeah oh yeah oh yeah you're nice and you're nice and cold up now I love it so Vanessa yes this is actually the third time you've been on the show can you believe it and I mean I love our interviews so much when you reached out I was like yes let's do it again yes and one of the things we wanted to talk about was something that was different yes and one thing that has changed is that you've had a second child now yes yes and I'm sure Sienna is a very vicious 5-year-old y so one of the things I want to talk about because I actually just visited back home to see my brother and the way he's communicating now is definitely changed he's more patient he's a better listener what are the things that you've learned I know this is your second sh but I'm sure you get reminded about these experiences oh yeah second kid is more cuz everything you thought was a fluke the first time is real really yeah it confirms it so one thing that um I think about a lot and this is I think helpful for everyone whether you're a parent or not is um how we form our communication Styles right so as adults we have communication Styles ways that we communicate on text or email like even down to how we use exclamation points so Sean are you an exclamation point user or no depends on the person I know one of the conversations you said we have to adjust based on who we're talking to yes so I do adjust sometimes but I would say mostly not mostly not I think and anyone who's watching this for highly competent folks folks who lean higher in the competent scale which they have they're competent communicators it is physically painful for them to add exclamation points like they they are like it sounds like I'm yelling it's too enthusiastic whereas highly warm communicators they love an exclamation point they have an exclamation point after every sentence right they love emojis they word love words like wow y whoop Fab okay so that even just down to our way we communicate there's different styles so we actually form our communication Styles starting around age three oh this is amazing to think about so there was research that was done incredible amount of data where they had three-year-olds come into their lab not really really they're caregivers and they asked caregivers to rate their child personality on a number of different traits and so the caregivers filled out this huge survey of their children everything from agreeableness to um extroversion to organization to conscientiousness all the personal traits then they followed these children for 25 years wow it's a long study it's a really long study and when they went back to these kids now adults at 2728 they had them do the same test for themselves and what they found with the results were shockingly similar the way that caregivers described them at age three was shockingly similar to the way they described themselves at age 28 interesting so what I think about is okay if our personality our communication style is nature or nurture right three is not birth right right can we change it right if we have a communication C that isn't working for us can we change it if it's been ingrained in us from three and then second what can we learn about ourselves and also how can we help our children develop communication styles that really work for them so as I have a second I'm seeing how different they are same parents same home same city and they are radically different and so um it's been I've been thinking a lot about how our communication Styles grow and it's not about the lifestyle right cuz you guys are the same parents you're treating them the same same values it's really just the fact that they're bedroom same bedroom like we moved my daughter out of her bedroom so that we could have the baby so same crib same chair same and still radically different now she's only 8 months old but I'm already seeing the differences and so I think you know one thing that people could think about is what forces shaped your personality so um was that genetics could be you know is it the way your parents parented you um is there things along the way that shape the way that you communicate I think that those are interesting things to think about when we're talking about you know how we relate to others right right so are you adjusting based on that now that you have observed it to to treat them differently or should you like is is is that the way it should be done for parents that are seeing such vast different personalities amongst babies yes with an exclamation point I like exclamation point yes I even verbally add exclamation point that's how much I like them okay so here's my Approach especially now that I'm a parent I really think this so I was grown up I was I was grown up I was taught the Golden Rule growing up you know the Golden Rule treat others as you would like to be treated right that was what I was taught and I think that that is a fundamentally flawed way of looking at life and so I am not parenting with the Golden Rule and I actually don't teach the Golden Rule every one of my students knows I'm much more for the Platinum rule the Platinum rule you know plat by the way the play here is that Platinum is more precious than gold okay um and the Platinum rule is that you should treat others as they would want to be treated and I think this is a really important thing to think about is we if we are let's just take um conscientiousness right conscientiousness is an aspect of our personality there's five aspects of our personality you know them as ocean openness conscientiousness extroversion agreeableness neuroticism okay and I love talking about neuroticism if you and it was always the one that I don't know about about that one because that's that's the biggest difference between my kids is I have a high neurotic and a low neurotic okay yeah okay so um actually let's do neuroticism so neuroticism is um our emotional stability high neurotics are rea to their environment they have a lot less internal emotional stability they are worriers typically um they actually feel negative experiences more strongly most people think neuroticism is a choice actually it is a chemical difference in how we process people who are high neuroticism this is me We Carry long forms of a certain Gene called the serotonin transporter gene this Gene means that high neurotics produce less serotonin more slowly so what happens to a high neurotic is I'm in the car my husband's a low neurotic I'm a high neurotic that that pairing goes really well by the way is that is that a is that a formula it can be really helpful to have like opposites to help each other in a lot of ways because there's strengths and weaknesses to both which we'll talk about both please yeah we're in the car someone almost hits us okay we go at the same time both my husband and I our cortisol begins to flow and we're like woo that was close but as a high neurotic the serotonin which is help calm you down it helps you feel okay um it's kind of a sense of belonging is slower so my husband immediately everything's okay his body produces serotonin and he's forgot about that little accident within a couple of minutes me I'm still in cortisol even 20 minutes later I'm a little bit jumpy and that is because my body produces less serotonin more slowly meaning I feel negative experiences more strongly that is why worriors worry they are literally worriors because it hurts them more when something bad happens right whereas a lone neurotic is like it's no big deal if something goes wrong we'll deal with it cuz they can recover so quickly so um their benefits pros and cons lone neurotics are emotionally stable they are very calm they can usually control their inner experience they are great in a crisis right they are the one the rock who Gets You Through they are very levelheaded they can keep you calm they can stay calm they're the people you want next to you if something's going wrong sure High neurotics prevent crisis from happening in the first place right high neurotics are like we don't want a crisis to happen right so we're going to get all the emergency gear we're going to have plans b c d and e right so both are incredibly important you need to have both right so um knowing that I see I have a high neurotic daughter and I believe my little is a lone neurotic already I can see this and so for my high neurotic I know that she experiences negative experiences more strongly so if I I I'm a h neotic I'm going to treat her with more care in that way I'm going to tell her the plan ahead of time I'm going to tell her the backup plan whereas my little one I let her do things that I never let my my first child do because I'm like she'll be all right sure so I'm trying to treat them as they should be treated as opposed to how I would treat them right and that's how I approach all relationships right right and it's something that people don't really think about right I would imagine if you're not aware of that the person that has low neuroticism would be like oh this person is way too calm down don't worry about it worry about and vice versa I'm sure the other person is like why are you so calm all the time like you're not being proactive you're a robot like you know do you have any emotions it's it's it's certainly a barrier yes and so this is I think something that is when we know it it frees us right so one is think about the three to five most important people in your life are they high medium or low you can be high it's a scale right so high medium or low for your high neurotics in your life a gift you can give them is knowing their worry triggers God right what triggers their worry like for me my husband knows that not having a plan kind of triggers my worry so he's really good at trying to get a plan for me right um he would never do a surprise party for me right he would know that would not make me happy yeah um so what are their worry triggers and second how do they worry are they verbalizers or are they closed I don't know closed downers shutter inners right so there are two different kind of worry so um extroverts typically verbalize their worry they want to talk it out talk it out talk it out talk it out talk it out talk it out and they don't want you to solve it right they verbalize it until they're like done empty then you have um High neurotics who usually introverts are they shut down they want to retreat they want to be alone they want to process they want to think they do not want to be talked to bothered touched anything they need to process before they can even begin to talk about it it is a gift to allow your worrier to worry as they naturally worry if you try to pry out um an introvert they're they feel very violated and unsupported when all you're doing is trying to understand but they're not ready yet they might even go further down the rabbit hole of of and push you away yes whereas a high erotic if you try to shut down their verbalizing they will not stop worrying right they they feel super unheard and so it's a gift to give them that treat them as they want to be treated um if you are a h neurotic and you have a lone neurotic in your life it's very important to understand that they do not understand how you experience B things so when they say don't worry they don't mean it in a mean way right they they really don't they really think they're trying to be helpful right right um they also are going to say things like calm down I was just going to say that I was like do not use that word do not use those two words the word like right what is the famous phrase never in the history of calm down has calmed down every ever calmed anyone down that is the way it works so true we should try to avoid that but when they do say something like calm down or no worries they really are coming from a good place the last thing you want to do is react at them like they really they're lost they're like what is happening because they don't experience negative experiences like you do y and so the best thing you can do is when you're calm is try to explain your triggers to them and how you like to worry very interesting yeah okay so that's just one of the personality traits but yeah one faor for sure I mean just the fact that you're aware of that I think is is good because I think people just judge the other person without really understanding the fact that we we're just wired differently literally physiologically differently absolutely and like I think that that's you know we talk a lot about accepting difference that is one of the ways we can accept difference sure right is understanding how we're wired differently um and understanding someone's personality traits and um will willing to adjust your communication style to match theirs got it got it so this is the first thing that has changed since our last conversation it's a big change obvious yeah the second change that's happened is this rise of AI oh yes let's talk about AI yes some some really interesting stuff some really scary stuff I don't know if you've ever seen deep fake interviews that are being done one example is like Joe Rogan interviewing Steve Jobs or Sam Altman who's the founder of open Ai and I like it gets me thinking because if someone never heard of this interview or or Joe Rogan you would almost think that they're actually having a real life conversation and I don't know if you've gotten to that point where like someone has def faked your speaking real or youve done it yourself I did it to myself okay so this is my question is what is it that is the essence of the way humans communicate that even AI today won't really be able to replicate like what is the thing where if you heard an AI speak versus a human speak what is the difference they like no this because of this this is the real Vanessa van Edwards or the real Joe Rogan how do we tell those apart I think the only way right now and this could change in a couple years but right now and I created deep fakes of myself to see how it would go a so interesting right um it did not get right not even close intonation and emphasis vocal power it was really interesting because we uploaded my audiobooks so that's you know 12 hours of me speaking we update we uploaded podcasts where I was speaking conversationally so it had dozens of hours of me speaking and it did not get the intonation right it was my voice yeah but I'll give you an example so I have a certain kind of cadence that I speak with I'll emphasize different parts of a sentence my deep fake would emphasize the wrong things oh interesting and so at the end of a sentence it would do differently it would sound different than how I actually sound I would never talk like that but it would make it so it the emphasis was so wrong that you you knew it wasn't correct and it wasn't helpful like I emphasize words based on what I think is helpful to The Listener right so like when we talk about neuroticism I emphasize neuroticism because it's a hard word I slow it down and I want you to hear it the AI doesn't know that's a hard word yeah so it's not going to add emphasis or more um eloquence to that word to help the listener understand whereas I am thinking very quickly what's the most important word in this sentence right what's the word that someone's going to be Harden CH so they didn't get that right um however however I think there's a lot of opportunity um and I am not that scared mostly because I don't think it's helpful to me but also because I think there's some things that I literally don't have time to do that AI can do for me sure for example people have asked us hey I would love to have an option on your website where um I could listen to your articles well the only way to do that before was having like a really awful AI voice be like confidence strategies change so now we can turn on my voice so people can list listen to something kind of like me for the articles I could never have time to read all 700 articles on my website but at least my voice can kind of do it it's better than having a random AI voice do it sure sure um I also think that people aren't thinking about AI in terms of communication and relationships so I'm working on a LinkedIn learning course right now on AI for communication oh how did that work so we're drafting it right now I'm really excited about it because most people think of AI in terms of like productivity you know getting things done being more efficient but I'm like oh no no AI has it's the shortcut into more Charisma so right now if you want to write a charismatic email for example it's hard right you have to think um you know I the definition of Charisma from the research is a combination of high warmth and high competence most of our emails that we write nowadays are very sterile they lack no warmth and no competence because we're in a rush we write a thousand emails days and it's hard to write warmth and competent emails so first we have to make our emails not sterile that's hard then we have to make them the perfect balance of warm and competent warm is words that Inspire connection happy best both collaborate connect um emojis exclamation points words like Yay way yay fab right sure competent is um words that make you want to get things done power efficient brainstorm um lead streamline effic efficient uh numbers graphs charts percents dollar signs those are all competent right so trying to sift through all the words and replace them and not make it too long that has a lot of brain power now you are already charismatic so you have to work to get yourself into this email who's got time for that sure most people are one or the other right if they they AR actively thinking about it most of us have an imbalance so a highly warm person really struggles to add competence that feels authentic and a highly competent person really struggles to add warmth that feels authentic well now that we have ai you can write a Bare Bones email and you can tell it if you know what to tell it hey can you make this both warm friendly and likable as well as competent powerful and efficient and within 10 seconds you have a very charismatic draft for you to edit that is a icient Charisma sure and so I think there's so much wonderful potential there in terms of using it to communicate better so when you're spitting that out into the AI model what break that down so assuming most people are having inperson conversations yes and they can't use AI to have these conversations just yet yes you never know what's going to happen what is actually happening that allows you to have that warmth of communication but ALS also show competence in an in-person conversation well first of all a lot of my students I'll I ask them to write first because it trains you so whether you do that with AI or not it's helpful to actually practice with writing first because it's very hard to do it in person so like I think of it as like a practice step ladder the hardest is in person that's the last way I want you to practice because when you're there's so many inputs happening right now that we're in person we're making eye contact I'm looking at your nodding your posture your hand gestures I'm thinking about my posture my hand gestures I'm also very aware that there's cameras around it's a lot so to add warmth and confid on top is too hard so okay don't practice in person then it's the phone no actually then is video video like is a little bit smaller than phone then chat then text then emails so I actually would like you people to start actually in those steps Progressive it does train you to use those words so in person if we were to skip all the way to the top there are four ways that we send warmth and competence our words that's one way our body language gestures posture facial expressions our voice our vocal power our Cadence our volume our tone and our ornaments the clothes we wear what's in our background our earrings your glasses your watch what you're drinking what you're holding in a profile picture what's behind you in a profile picture ornaments yeah so you have a lot of options four channels that you can choose to play with because you can add warmth and competence to any of them right so my goal is like okay I want you to be authentically warm and competent I don't want you to do something that doesn't feel natural to you which channel do you like the best which one feels the most comfortable to you and then I'm going to give you there are 96 cues that you can play with like a recipe 96 96 yes there are 96 now I I tried to create an encyclopedia of all the cu's and they're probably more than 96 but I was able to kind of group them like for example head Behavior just head Behavior alone there's probably 10 to 12 so there's up and down nodding there's horizontal nodding there's the side nodding right there's a head tilt there's um uhhuh like Fast nodding like impatient so even just in that so I try to bucket them but you have 96 cues at your disposal to play with and so you can choose which of those channels you want to optimize first okay I have so many questions just from that context right so one of the difficult things that at least I have when I enter like an inperson conversation particular l in group settings right I would say I think you're an Ambert right I'm an Ambert I'm similar as well and I do need to recharge when I'm in these inperson conversations and when I'm out of practice right maybe I've been focused heads down you know maybe some of us have had a baby and they haven't had that experience of like getting at the rust of speaking and I review the 96 Q's mhm but for me I always seem to be in my head totally during the conversations to know where my hands should be to know what my tone of voice should be to know what questions I should ask and I often find myself not being present sometimes because of these things that I have to think about yes is there anything things that you can do before maybe you go into a group setting that can help you get maybe a little bit less social anxiety or just help you kind of maybe even during the moment to help you actually have these conversations in a more natural way and be more present yes so um there's a couple answers to this I'll give all of them so the first one is your Chemistry so there is a lot of research to show that if we are in a fear mode that is very contagious it's almost impossible to be charismatic when you're feeling afraid or anxious and that's a big statement I know but um it comes from a study so uh they wanted to study how fear Works socially right so they brought brought people into their lab they split them up into two different groups the first group they wore sweat pads they're horrible sweatsuits that catch your sweat yeah um under your armpits and they had them run on the treadmill sweaty exercise Sweat Right the second group they had them wear sweat pads and Skydive for the first time so fear induced sweat they took these sweat pads and they had unsuspecting participants the participant had no idea what they were smelling smell these sweat pads now they had no idea they didn't know they didn't even know they was sweat yeah but they put them in an fmri machine and they gave them to smell these sweatpants gross right um people who smelled the fear sweat pads their own fear part of their amydala lit up so somehow their brain could smell that Fierce sweat and they began to feel afraid interesting and so this is the first of many studies they're just beginning to look at the cues that we don't even know we're sending through our pheromones maybe through our sweat through I mean you know right or even like down to cues we can't control our blink rate you know blink rate is a Quee I didn't talk about it in my book because you can't control it right but higher blink rate is associated with more nervousness I'm blinking right now you're blinking more I know the moment so I like I it was in my book and my edit and I were talking about it I was like you know what I'm going to take it out because the moment someone thinks that their blink right they start blinking more I know it's a horrible AFF it's like once you see someone yawn right like exactly really weird thing so there's all all these cues that we don't even can't even control okay so one is before you even show up I think it's really important to work on your Chemistry that's twofold do not go to events that make you really anxious or nervous I I am a big believer in that if there's someone that you're dreading seeing don't see them cut them out of your life sure right like I don't go so for example I was just at a big conference we were talking about it I did not go to the welcome party the welcome party is not for me yeah me neither the Amber birts I I cannot do it loud really big spaces with like lots of wandering around not for me I did not go to the closing party I love the workshops I love the books talks I love sitting in the audience listening I love like the sidebar conversations so I know I say know that about yourself like don't put yourself in those situations because it's really hard to be charismatic second if you have to go into one of those conversations or you're a little bit nervous I do think that laughter is sort of like the secret key to unlocking and changing your chemistry it releases all kinds of endorphins it makes you feel happier and so I have a laughter playlist that I watch on YouTube which is like a ton of funny videos that's what I'm doing when I'm putting on makeup that's what I'm doing like before I walk into a room I'll call a funny friend I listen to funny podcasts like I think laughter like it immediately snaps you out of it right that's that um the second thing we talked about the question was about going into an event that makes you a little bit nervous and if you can try to have a wingman wingman or wing yeah very interesting one of the cues that we we didn't talk about you know we talked a lot about like the different ornaments and the physical Natures but one thing that I was curious about is smell and smell as we just brought up is the only thing that you can actually go through when you're in an inperson experience where you're job interview or a date or an interview like this so talk to me a bit about smell between different genders as well and what are kind of what's like a safe smell that you can use for any different scenarios that yeah just allows you to be there's so much research being done on this which is really exciting so there's like the pheromone side of things and the synthetic side of things so your natural scent versus scents you can add so one is there is somehow a scent to fear right like that's why getting your Chemistry right is the most sexy thing you can do like confidence I think has a smell in its own way that's why I said like laughter I think is the fast way so that's one thing the second thing is in terms of Attraction um they've done a lot of research on this where they take um like people's worn shirts and they have couple smell shirts heard about this you know um and they you actually go to speed dating events that are based on smell I think it's called smell dating actually um and they are very effective uh we can tell a lot about someone by if our smells match up and so you're talking about the natural fmas not the perfume no no they literally people had to wear I think these shirts for 2 days no deodorant no soap no lotions and they put them in Ziploc bags and then you smell and you pick your partner that you want to go on another little speed date with yes and by the way this is like so weird one of the studies I read I forget which one it was they added in siblings shirts and people thought their siblings were disgusting no way yeah they raided people and like across the board people anyone they didn't know was their siblings sent that one as like the lowest most unattractive scent so like there's something yeah oh yeah yeah like they're there's a lot of reach this it's so interesting so um your natural scent I actually think um is the most important um I think it does it can attract the right person now do I want you to come in like sweaty from the gym no but do I love dating at the gym yes do I highly recommend trying to date in scenarios where your scent will be more more prominent yeah like go on like meet up hike hike meetups like go to the beach you know meet someone at the pool like meet someone at the gym go to dance classes like yeah like there's something to that like if you're looking for your partner that's kind of what people talk about maybe like around Vibe like I just can't explain it but I just feel so comfortable around this person physically yes okay the other really weird thing is this is like the weirdest you're going to be like what okay so there was a study so researchers know that smell is really powerful so much so that there was a hypothesis which proved to be true that we really like to smell people but it's socially unacceptable to smell each other right um they think it's one of the reasons why we get so close to handshake is because like that we get into smelling distance it's why a lot of cultures hug or cheek kiss is because even bowing like we're getting closer to their scent right when you bow you're actually getting closer to where their neck is exposed okay so their hypothesis was that if you handshake with someone in the next 10 seconds you will touch your own nose because you're trying to smell their hand you mean like so like we shake hands shake hands your nose will start to itch in like the next 10 seconds or you'll really want to touch your face H like I do yeah I want to touch my nose very bad right right do you I mean I'm like actively think I'm trying not to actively think about it just for the sake of it so like they they're what they studied is that your nose like kind of tingles yeah because it want wants you to bring your hand to your nose so you can kind of smell it I guess naturally you're just bringing it back right but like wa watch so like this is the this is the weirdest thing I've ever said on YouTube but like go to a networking event or a business event and just watch you will see that people will shake hands and within like 10 to 15 seconds they inexplicably touch their nose or their face right something around it you're saying something around it cuz their hypothesis is it's our way of like very subtly being like are we good like do we have like chemical match and now aware of it it drives me crazy cuz I don't want to touch my nose right right one thing I do is I when I'm at a networking event let's say like I have an instinct of grabbing my drink cuz maybe I don't want to just actively touch my nose this is pretty much touching my nose right 100% yeah that is a for sure thing or like touch your glasses yes like I really want to itch my nose right now like it actively itches interesting I wasn't itching before and it do you think that's just for even oh this is not dating this is like anyone any yeah this is any because their hypothesis in the study is that as humans we're looking for just chemical matchups and also we want to see are you afraid right like from a caveman perspective wouldn't you want to know if someone was with you if they were afraid that would tell you something right and so there's a lot more research to be done in this area but um so natural smell is something and then the last thing is synthetic smell so they just studied this I just put it on my YouTube channel the most popular ENT in the world on hum so like not just like in a room is vanilla so for for women and men I I've never smelled a man who smelled like vanilla but I wear vanilla perfume because of that study well and you weren't wearing that before no because I I I this is a study I've known about I wear I've been wearing it forever because of that study and that's just a neutral thing that allows you to have like trust like ability all of these combined or what's the deal they think um that food related scents make us happy because food we like food we like it makes us feel safe and vanilla is a food related scent right like it is and so um maybe there's something to that I think there is something to that like you know reals will often bake cookies in the oven before they show a house because they're something about walking into a house and smelling freshly baked cookies that makes you feel at home right um and so I think it works like I've done all kinds of very casual experiments with food related scents um I did a ridiculous experiment back in my early days where I read a study that people like men especially like yeah food related scense on women and this is when I was single I'm married now but um I thought this was like a hilarious study and so I took I popped popcorn in the microwave and then I opened the bags and I rubbed The Buttery inside of the bag all over my arms and my neck and then you went to the gym no then I went to a fra party and like like I was like dancing with the guy and he was like dang you smell good and I was like wow it is flat out butter popcorn he smells but he actually commented on it I didn't do it again cuz it really is greasy and it makes you break out but um it did work like literally the guy was like dang you smell good and I was like it is literally popcorn butter that's so fascinating and you think it'll work for women as well or do you think it'll it's more for men I don't think a woman would be like into a guy that smelled like a movie theater right right I think it's only going only men would be full I think but like I would be so open to someone running that experiment like you know go out smell like some popcorn and just like see what happens wow okay yeah this is why I so interested like smell is is not something people really think about so much right we think more on a visual sense um but this really aligns around the topic around trust right kind of building that trust when you first meet someone maybe it's not just around smell but what are some things that we can do maybe we haven't met this person before or maybe we are trying to sell something to someone someone or negotiate and we just want to build that trust but there's not a lot of time right cuz I think people can do that through email you don't need time talk to me trust is built almost immediately like in the first few seconds and so um actually less time is sometimes easier um because our Instinct so the research is very clear on this that we make our first impression within the first few seconds of seeing someone it's solidified as we start to talk to them but it's very very quickly that's because our brain wants to take shortcuts and it's also in the first few seconds it's hard to lie to someone and so we're trying to like look and see like size someone up very very quickly so that's good news I think it means you only have to worry about the first few seconds really and if you're showing up authentically and you're not going to an event that you don't like it's easier to show those trust signals um the way that I like to think about it is you want to show that you were on the same page as someone physically on the same page as someone yes and so we like people who are engaged fully with us and aligned with us so that's what I think about is like alignment so that goes all the way from our toes to our head so you'll notice like we are angling towards each other it would be hard if I were sitting like this and talking like this to you oh yeah I've had interviews like that it feels weird right yeah I just feel like there's something about go here you know just to line there is something about it and I actually it not only disengages you to me it also disengages me to you so um physically aligning so as you're talking to someone seated or standing video or not like I it drives me crazy when I see people on video with their video camera here and they're typing and they're like uh-huh uh-huh right like I I love that like this camera is right here like I can align with everyone watching say like I respect you I hope you don't use a lot from like you know all the way over there but um so physical alignment toes torso head toes torso head it's called fronting right so angling are we're on the same railroad tracks that's the very first thing and trying you'd be surprised how often we do it accidentally where people will pull back you think you do this but you'd be shocked at how often people pull their shoulder back it's BL is that because they're not comfortable or they want to get out of the situation not comfortable um don't want to seem too eager ah you know there's that sort of thing of like hey what's up guys do that a lot right more than girls okay yeah um and so you'd be surprised how often you will catch yourself blading pulling your shoulder back or or even like you know leaning back and angling away so angling forward um eye contact is the next kind of alignment right like we want to make eye contact it doesn't have to be 100% right so 100% eye contact is actually an invasive cue right like if someone's like staring you down it's like very weird right so it's 60 to 70% eye contact okay right so as you're meeting oh it's so good to see you it's okay to look away it's okay to be like oh my gosh this is such a great place sure sure 60 to 70% eye contact produces oxytocin which makes us want to connect and bond seven um and then the next smiling if you feel authentic I never want someone to be like smiling when they don't feel like smiling that's actually a bad cue so how do you know if someone is having an inauthentic fake smile doesn't reach all the way up into the upper cheek muscles so these upper cheek muscles they pull up your smile so if I like I can smile like this there's no activation out here right this a total uncomfortable by the way right now right it makes everyone uncomfortable if I'm like hey good to see you yeah right like that is also a pet peeve if someone walks into a room or hops on call hey yeah good to see you it feels bad I would rather you say hey it's nice to see you right I would much rather you take away that smile so if you feel like smiling great that's an alignment CU if you don't do not fake it till you make it sure in that area um you know someone is actually happy to see you when they reaches all the way up into that upper right they got the the C crows yeah crows feet um only one in 10 people can consciously activate those muscles so when you see them activated you almost always know that it's real okay it's hard to fake that right right um You can do it with practice like I can do it cuz I practiced it enough but um it took me like a year yeah and you're an expert so most people you you'll know this is the sign okay um and the next one if you're able to do it is like vocal alignment and this is like Advanced right this is like very Advanced so this is for my people who really want to dial in their communication so vocal alignment is when you try to match and mirror the voice that you hear not mimic them but I'll give you an example so have you ever seen two girls greet each other where they go oh my God it's so good to see you hi yeah what they're actually doing as vocal alignment they're they're actually showing I love you so much we're Mee in the same w okay but so it's not fake you're saying no when you see this is humans do this right we do this so um I believe I believe there was a stud that looked at Larry King interviews I forget exactly what it was but they found that people match the vocal tone Cadence pitch of the most powerful person in the room got it so we are already all already doing this um but I like to bring awareness to it um because it's a way that if you're nervous you can miss it right like you're so wrapped up in your own nervousness that you're like a lot of the times people will hold their breath on their first words they'll go hey good to see you right right right right and they like thrown away that that first word so like I like you have a much more like calm energy right so like when I'm talking to you I'm I bring my vocal tone down I speak a little bit more calmly when I'm talking to my girlfriends I talk much faster and much more oh very much so if you will watch an interview with Lisa billu So Lisa B is one of my girlfriends I love her at impact Theory you'll notice I talk differ it is different then I I I I match up cuz she's like she's up here she's talking like this she's Hester she's like hey girl I'm so excited to have you here and I am too right right so like I'm trying to respect you by like matching where you where you're at um because it's your home it's your interview right so I want to match where you're at and so that's a very Advanced way that you can do that got it now the reverse when you're trying to see if someone is trying to let's say manipulate you or if someone is lying to you I'm more certainly more on the other side where like I'm I am trying to be more aware of that but some people are just they're not they're not there right they just kind of miss all these different signals totally so what are some of the simple ones that you can look out for that okay like this is a pretty obvious signal that someone's like it's a signal of like I shouldn't trust this person is that what we're looking for yeah more like red flags around that right so when we're looking for I shouldn't trust this person what you're looking for is mismatches so when someone is congruent their words match their tone match their body like it's all in alignment you're like yes when you see mismatches that's when they're like what like what's happening so this can happen in a lot of different ways so the very most obvious way is facial expressions to words so if someone says I'm so happy to be here yeah and they look so unhappy mismatch right so okay in that sense I wouldn't think they're a con man but I would think oh they're having a hard day and they're trying for me you know right like I was okay I'm going to try to make it easy on them cuz they're not having a good time right so someone saying they're happy and not being happy is the first big one the other one that I look out for a lot is contempt so contempt is a one-sided mouth raise so one yep um we tend to think of it as like a smirk kind of partial happiness but actually it's like quite a negative micro expression it means like disdain or superiority so people often do it when they're like right yeah yeah I you mentioned this in the last one where you were able to predict like a crazy amount of chances that they would be divorced or just from that one expression John gotman can predict with 93.6% accuracy if a couple will get divorced by looking for contempt that's wild so that's a mismatch someone saying um yes I love her right like that is that's that's a mismatch I would want to dig deeper on that usually doesn't happen in that obvious of a way usually it's like you're in a meeting and you share an idea and someone goes yeah you got to pay attention right to to see those that's when I'm like M like that idea did not resonate then that doesn't mean the idea is bad it means maybe they have to explain it a different way maybe they have a question maybe they have self-hate like you don't always know why the contempt is there it's a mismatch of this should be a creative brainstorm session and for some reason you're showing disdain superiority disrespect so contempt is a mismatch I like to look for more subtle ones are um mismatches in hand gestures or mismatches in body language gestures so for example if um in this culture in American culture Western cultures this means yes up and down nod means yes a horizontal nod means no it's different in India Pakistan and Bulgaria right India is this is yes yeah could be either um so in W cultures um so if someone says you know um yeah I I really like her and they're shaking their head no that's a little bit of an odd mismatch right like do people do that though like without they just don't think about it right but it just all the time because someone's like so you say hey what do you think of the new girl well yeah yeah she's great right cuz they're like what do I say what do I say what do I say what do I say what do I say right now you have to be careful because some people use body language as what are called punctuates punctuates like um there's uh there's a famous interview I forget who it is either like Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon where they do this all the time like they're constantly shaking their head no so for them that's just how they emphasize their words that wouldn't but if someone all of a sudden is like you know she's great right she's great right with like a lip purse which is like a withholding gesture that's like a mismatch right like that's something's not right there or um Liars are very bad with matching their hand gestures to their words in our uh lab we studied Liars I love I'm fascinated by by deceivers um because I think it's so interesting what happens to our body in guilt which is a little bit different than fear so Liars have a really hard time with tense so um if something true happened in the past I use past tense oh what did you what did you do on the night of the incident well I went to my girlfriend's house I we watched a movie we brushed our teeth we had a little snack we went to bed all ped a liar didn't really happen and they rehearsed parts of it and so they'll mess up their tenses what happened the night of the incident I went over to my girlfriend's house and we're watching a movie and we realize we realize we have to brush our teeth so I brush my teeth like the tenses are not right cuz he's actively thinking about and and they're rehearsing and like in their mind it's present interesting right so they mess up tenses they also must have gestures so for example it's really hard to lie with our gestures so if I were to say um okay let's do little experiment so will you please um hold up the number three but say four four horrible right yeah four just try it four yeah my eyes also just went that way for a little bit I if you saw it so that would probably be like that's you're working really hard yeah it's really hard to do that so if I say I have a big idea very hard like my brain does not like it and so Liars their gestures are often true huh so like you'll see like leaks in um Miss matches in their gestures or no hand gestures at all yeah that's you often see like they'll like grip their hands cuz they don't want to give themselves away and the more you know this person and the patterns of how they respond or act the the easier that it is to be able to tell that right yes so like in chapter six I talk about how to spot a bad guy right like how to spot a bad guy or a bad girl whatever um which is knowing understanding their patterns their baselines and also understanding your own patterns and baselines so this is not just for others like I think it's a fundamental life skill that everyone should know what they do when they lie not to be better Liars but to catch yourself when you feel like you're lying like there like I know what my tells are right and so in the book very easy I can go through the exercise um you turn on your video camera you share what you had for breakfast yesterday tell me your most embarrassing story make up an embarrassing story and try to convince me it's true okay so that's what you record um that's how you recall what you had for breakfast yesterday what you whatever you're doing when you recall looking up to the left touching your face that's your recall truth behaviors your most embarrassing story are your recall nervous behaviors what you do when you're recalling something that made you feel really nervous to differentiate nervousness and guilt yeah and then your em fake embarrassing story is what you do when you're pretending got it got like that's a very quick exercise um that helps you identify I know what my tells are like I know what I do when I lie what what are your tells I'm not going to tell you are you crazy that is private information don't tell anyone your tell don't tell anyone your tell but you know what's most helpful is when I catch myself in self deception ah like I have been with people and they'll ask me questions and I'm like oh my gosh I am lying like it I it's been so helpful to me cuz I catch myself when I'm lying to myself super interesting and so like that's why I think it's a really helpful skill is like I think we actually lie to our far more than we li anyone else for sure for sure the inner voice in our heads right yeah and it could be even limiting beliefs I would imagine people that tell themselves that they should not earn certain money or deserve this kind of person we don't even realize it and maybe there are gestures that we can be more aware of to tell that you'll see like you'll you'll do your guilt gestures when talking about certain things about yourself or there are certain people that you you notice you use a lot of those tells with that person and you're like I was like why and I realized like they kind of make me lie a little bit like to downplay yeah or I know certain things about them that I'm afraid to say and so I'm enabling bad behavior because you don't think they'll be happy for you or no no like I have um someone who has their own toxic patterns this is the person who I realized it with and I was enabling that bad behavior by not saying anything right so like if you have a toxic person in your life or a difficult person you can tiptoe around the issues the elephants in the room yeah and I realized like I was doing it a lot around them where I was like trying to be like extra careful because I was worried that if I said something I'd offend them God it CU I don't want to tell them the truth and that I was like I don't want this relationship it was a really like amazing moment personally cuz I was like whoa yeah why am I dancing around truth around this person like it's not serving me it is making me nervous it is making me lie I pride myself in not being a liar and so it made me really set back from that relationship cuz I was like I don't want to do this around them and I didn't realize how often I was dancing around things that's so fascinating so all of these gestures that we're just not even realizing it can not only help us to see if someone is perhaps lying or not being truthful but we can also realize who are the people in our lives that we're doing this to ourselves to yeah and it's not just gestures by the way a lot of can be vocal so for example one of the most common um lying red flags that which this is one of mine and I actually worked on it a lot because I also do it when I'm nervous um so is the question and flection used on a statement so the question inflection is when you go up at the end of your sentence like you're asking a question like every Canadian but it's actually a statement yes new zealanders and Canadians we do this a lot and I think that's actually one of the reasons so there's research on this why we sometimes research this is not my opinion research when we look at cultures cultures that use the question reflection are typically seen as less competent I think it's because their literally their accent is questioning that's so true Canadians are too nice right nice exactly and so like sometimes Canadians will question their own name my name is Vanessa yeah right which is an immediate like dip in confidence so um vocal tone is a huge cue it's not just gestures so for example people will often ask the lie so one of the things we did in our lab is we had people record two truths and a lie okay for us so that's a very fun game you deliver two truths and One Lie and we try to guess which is the lie and people often ask their a lie so they would say for me um can you guess which one is a lie I live in Austin Texas I love dogs I love cilantro thir right okay so I made that obvious for you but people will often ask it because they're asking do you believe me so it's not just gestures it's it's vocal tone it's Cadence changes tense changes yeah wow and someone that's like an advanced level they'll know that the other person is thinking that and yeah you got to use those powers to to good use guys look like I have a whole section of the book of like use these powers for good not evil right because they they can be used for evil they can people do I mean you know how we wield our influence is the choice we have to make and so I had a real difficult kind of like a existential crisis writing my last book because I was I was like what if people use this Dem manipulative and the truth is they could um and so I try to give as many positive examples as possible I also think that people who use cues in a manipulative way with bad intention they will eventually be caught yeah we cannot control our scent we cannot control every Q we cannot control our blink rate we cannot control our pup pupil dilation we cannot control nasal Wing flare we cannot control a lot of cues and so I think that um Bad actors will eventually be caught because if you have bad intention that's all we're looking for is do you have good intention towards me and so it only lasts for so long that's at least I tell myself as I was writing the book I was like well the I would imagine the far majority of the work that you're putting out would allow people to tell more easily those people that are being more manipulative or using it in a negative light so I 100% think that's the case um final kind of Point around this idea of feeling guilty or feeling certain ways when we're with others one thing that I saw with I don't know if this is something for you but not so much anymore but I know a lot of people are going through this which is imposter syndrome yeah whether they achieve a certain amount of success or maybe they're not and they're still not thinking that they're worthy of it or having these limiting beliefs around it um what are some ways that we can improve our selft talk right not the way we communicate with others but ourselves to help us feel more comfortable with you know being interesting right around others and not being too humble or too down on ourselves where we don't even get the attention that we deserve for the work that we're doing um well first of all I think that if you feel impostor syndrome it means you're doing something right what I mean by that is people who are doing big things who are pushing their boundaries who are stepping outside of their comfort zone almost always feel impost syndrome so I would say one it means you're probably pushing yourself right like you wouldn't feel impost syndrome if you were in a safe place right and so that means like maybe you're reaching good right like maybe you're upleveling great maybe you're out of your comfort zone okay fun things happen outside of our comfort zone so that's the first reframe is like at least you're feeling something that is challenging like at least you're not so safe and hiding I think some sometimes the opposite of feeling imposture wom could be hiding of course another opposite is confidence which I would prefer but I think it means like you're doing something big and good right and like I think that's a good thing so that should be commended so if you feel it it means all right like learning is around the corner like that's a good thing and so that's the first reframe is like it it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong okay I think a lot of people feel like oh my God I feel impost syndrome I'm wrong I'm doing something wrong I'm not in the right place no it means you're doing something right that's the first thing the second thing is the only way I have a lot of impost gome and a lot of awkwardness I call myself a recovering awkward person the only way I'm able to get out of that like out of my head out of feeling that way especially in interactions or even like doing interviews or YouTube videos is this study this is a study that changed my life okay okay stick in so I think impost syndrome comes from when we're trying to impress people we're trying to be smart we're trying to be um likable we're trying to be funny right it happens when we're trying to be something and have people think a certain way about us successful smart impressive that is a lot of pressure it's almost impossible to not feel that way when we're trying to have someone think that we're amazing right it's like we don't feel amazing it's too much pressure so it's a different Paradigm to think about so this is a research study that looked at popular kids like high school or oh yeah the original connectors right so they studied thousands of high school students across a variety of high schools and they wanted to look for patterns of popularity why were certain kids popular in these schools in grades in each grade in each school and they had hypothesis they thought well maybe they're the smartest they have the highest GPA maybe they're most they most athletic they're quarterback or whatever right cheer head cheerleader are they the most most athletic are they the funniest are they the tallest are they the richest they looked at all these things that we often think of for being likable popular impressive successful um none of those were p n of those no there there were kids who were popular because they athletic but that was not the pattern for all the kids there was one single big pattern for all the popular kids across all the schools funny nope and and wouldn't it be horrible if it was funny how much pressure you have to know you have to be funny at all times right thank goodness no yes okay um did we say looks not looks that was a big hypothesis not looks that's what I thought it would be okay those were my and there were popular kids that were that wasn't not every popular kid was attractive I don't know I mean I was not popular so this is definely not I'm not like what am I no I'm having to guess very far away from I always why do you think I read this study like with breath I was like what is you said change your lives I was like yeah would I wish I read this in high school actually but I didn't wasn't out then no I feel so the pattern was the popular kids had the longest list of other kids that they liked that one of the things they asked every kid was list all the kids in your school that you like and the popular kids had the longest list in other words they were not going around being the funniest the smartest the most impressive all they were doing was thinking of all the ways they could like people more Super interesting how to Wi Friends and Influence People basically the funny thing is like he never put it quite that suct Dale Carnegie like he never said like forget being impressive in fact that that was not the mess of his book often said like tell stories be impressive and this is hard like some D Carnegie's advice is hard it's pretty hard yeah right or like be interested that's part of it but it's literally just trying to like the person you're with that's it forget about impressing them forget about being funny forget about mentioning all your cool things no it's literally just how can I like you more that that is actually the key to likability and so I think that that is the only way I was able to get of my impost syndrome is it took all the pressure off of having to be great that's so interesting we all just want to be loved yeah at the end of the day I like you that phrase that feeling is the most powerful feeling in the world if you share I like you with someone else you give them permission to be themselves you are saying I like you just as you are you are worthy and you are valued that is the greatest gift you can give someone that's all we want in our action the other person does not want to hear how amazing you are maybe they want to laugh but like that's not why they're there all they want to do is do you like me do you like me do you like me do you like me do you like me do you like me and so the sooner you can find a reason to like them and share that you like them the more like aable you are right and it's so funny cuz you would always think that the more successful someone is or the more money someone has sometimes it's even the extreme case like those people need way more validation and when I think about like how do you surround find yourself with people that are way more successful than you is like it is kind of their advice right you just make them feel heard you make them feel important and find authentic reasons to like them like think about the people you like most they're often like not the richest or the prettiest or the funniest you just genuinely like them for who they are there's a reason for that right like so I think that that imposter is like forget trying to even show someone you're great or be great it's it just takes that whole Di and throws it out the window that's so interesting get out of your head and more more into your heart at the end of the day wow well I think that's a powerful way Vanessa to to close us off in a warm way but also competent way with research and studies I just want to ask when is the next book coming out cuz we're all waiting at this point right I know I know so I just had a baby so um I think so I think of my work as I have a research year a writing year and a launch year that's typically how I think of it so right now I'm in research year so um I'm researching and so my next book is going to be you know I have Q's Captivate it will be another CW okay will'll be any hints or any any nope another word you can guess if you want well we'll have to do around four so I'm researching right now um kind of my big idea for the book it requires some research and so um yes I'm researching so maybe two years maybe three two years well some of you might be listening to this when it's out right you never know so yes whatever it might be go check check it out yeah and where else can people find you online so um my books are on Audible if you like listening I read q and Captivate I had so much fun with the vocal power on those books yeah yeah it's not air red it's it's no it's me it's legit me real person promise yes so it's really me painfully recorded over many many days uh and also my books are on Amazon and then of course science people.com is where we have all of our free trainings so I have like a bunch of audio trainings and video trainings on like ability I also have one on how to deal with difficult people if that like piece of today resonate with you we didn't get to dive into it um that's that's what I'm thinking about a lot these days beautiful all right round three complete thanks so much checking out guys bye check [Music] [Applause] out