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so when satha gets off the py she walks towards RAM and their eyes meet and their faces light up but then surprisingly Ram tells her the rakshasas and the vanaras is there an occult element attached according to you rakshasas of Lanka very goodl looking they came in all shapes and sizes which side was bigger the rasas were better equipped how does the war pan out ravan suffers one loss after another amongst his top generals kumbak karna his brother indrajit his son and in the end what fascinated you in Lanka Hanuman heard people reciting The Vedas he saw the swastic symbol he saw an image of Lakshmi damn what do you make of the Weaponry after your studies there are descriptions using mantras to fire up weapons two variants the dry and the wet type wow so it's not just limited to the vimanas there was not only one viman in raavan Lanka actually there were multiple vians parked like a parking lot outside his Palace so this incident about fire sitama stepping in is in the yud so the yudan is in Lanka and there is the incident of the Agni Prav do you think people don't know these details simply because they've not studied Sanskrit yet many of the popular Productions are not based on the waliki ramayan so the ramayan that they know does not answer these questions this story of love and Kush the sons of ram yes that's in the utaran that is in the utaran could you briefly take us through the story line in the utaran yes I absolutely love episodes like this where we get to dive deeper into Indian iasa or Indian history there's a lot of different versions of the ramayan including all the versions that you know of the ones you've seen on television the ones you've read in comic books all of those have added anecdotes and all of those are slightly different than the actual true ramayan which is the valmiki ramayan that's the only one that's considered his historically accurate that's the only one that's considered an actual representation of the Indian subcontinent's history we've had some very epic episodes where we've deep dived into both the ramayan and the Mahabharat in the recent past and this is another one from that same series yod deodar sir is a seasoned entrepreneur he's an IM am and IIT grad but at this point in his life he's dedicated his whole existence to studying the valmiki ramayan this episode is fantastic for anyone who has some Bas level understanding of the ramayan and for people who want a slightly deeper insight into what valmiki wrote in his version of the ramayan which is supposed to be the biography of the emperor Lord Shri Ram very interesting episode if you've enjoyed any of our iasa episodes you're going to enjoy this one as well but let me tell you before I let you slip into this podcast that yashu sir runs a fantastic almost undiscovered YouTube channel called 21 notes where he's retold the valmiki ramayan in detail for a 2024 audience so this episode contains some of the nuggets from his research but once you're done with the episode definitely go and check out his channel as well for now enjoy this epic episode of the renv show [Music] Yes dear so welcome to TRS we're in a phase of the internet where people are rediscovering the ramayan and the Mahabharat again but from a 2024 lens so we've done some absolutely epic episodes in recent times about the epics uh and I'm glad to see lots of professionals like yourself who doing a bit of a career switch and getting into further study of the epics so welcome to TRS firstly thank you very much yes pleasure to be here no pleasure to have you you sir uh what's the core message that the last 6 years have taught you about the ramayan like why even go into this journey in the first place the core message is this that the ramayan is not as we usually understand it in fact for me as well I thought I knew the Raman till I started the study and what I found was it's very different and second it has much more relevance in our day-to-day lives than I had thought okay how is it different well there are many versions of the ram of course and many times the versions that we are most familiar with are not based on one particular text called the waliki ramayan Mahi waliki wrote the ramayan for the first time he wrote it at the time that shiram lived so he was writing the life story of a real person he was writing a biography and that is also the IAS means that is how it happened so if we have a question about what exactly happened then the reference text is the valmiki ramayan we have a lot of questions about the ramayan a lot of confusion whether uh you know starting from whether it is a true story or not and so many questions about vanas being monkeys or apes or Neanderthal Etc all the questions are answered by the valmiki ramayan the answers are there in plain sight but unfortunately they are not accessible to uh the 2024 reader yeah why because most of the Productions of the ramayan are based on versions which are not the waliki ramayan in fact that is that has been my entire effort uh the 21 notes valmiki uh waliki Raman video series is an attempt to connect today's people uh with the Epic with the adik cavia okay I think most people get the reference point points either from the Japanese anime or the uh Indian TV show from the'80s uh ramanan sagar's ramayan or uh they get it from Amar comic books it's one of these three yes but you're saying that these three have aspects which are not a part of the original valmiki ramayan yes many aspects and I'm not saying that they are incorrect or they are not good Productions they are excellent Productions actually but if if we understand what really happened then we can also enjoy the other variants which are meant for a different purpose some of these are devotional texts some are literary texts okay um where would you like to begin this podcast like what are you trying to tell our audience like they're coming off of a series of trying to understand the ramayan in more detail uh we did a couple of episodes with n oer where the date was said to be around 15,000 BC or so mhm is that a part of your study like do you go into the real life linkages of the story that many of us know so my my study has been on the text itself right uh and you asked me where where I would like to start you know many people have mixed thoughts about an incident that happens right at the end actually which is the AGN parika so this is right at the end the war is over Rah cannot go into any city as per the rules of his Exile and so he cannot go to meet sitha who is inside Lanka he asks vibhishan to go and get her he tells visham go and get her quickly but then strangely he also says sham after she's had her bath and put on her jewelry that's his ask of SIA sitha is surprised when vibhishan tells her that she says USI you know the bath can wait I want to see him vishan advises that they should follow what Rah has said so satha Gets Ready she's brought to the battlefield in a py palanquin and RAM instructs them to stop the py and that sitha should walk up to him again a strange request the vanas and rakshasas are curiously looking what's happening and the guards are pushing them back and RAM tells the guards no let them wait let them watch so when sitha gets off the py you know with this crowd watching She's embarrassed I mean she didn't want to be a part of the spectacle after you know all that she has gone through she walks towards RAM and their eyes meet and their faces light up after months of longing they have finally seen each other but then surprisingly Ram tells her oh lady may you be well you should know that I did not fight the war for you ravan had insulted me by abducting you and I Fought For the Glory of my iwaku Dynasty and now there is a doubt about your character he said surely ran would have been attracted to you you're so beautiful and what sort of a man will take back a woman who has been to someone else's house so you are free to go you are free to go and live with whomever you wish to you can pick uh bhat lakshman or shatrugna or even sugri or vibhishan this is there in the yes yes damn so it means nothing to me just like you are shocked to hear that Sia was also shocked she said I did not come here by choice raan forcibly brought me what is my fault in all this she said if you still don't understand me I might as well be dead she said I don't want to live with this baseless controversy about my character she turned towards lakshman and said lakshman light a fire and I will step into it she also makes this interesting comment you know she's uh quite strong with her words she tells Ram if that's how you felt you should have told me when Hanuman came to meet me I would have killed myself then itself you would have saved yourself the trouble of fighting this war why put your life at risk and your friend's life at risk anyway now she tells lakshman to light a fire so that she can step into it lakshman is livid he cannot understand why Rah is doing this he looks at Rah angry and then waliki says Ram indicated to him with a gesture and lakman understood what was in his mind so Ram had indicated to him it's okay go ahead I know what I'm doing it's all an act play along lakshman lights the fire sitha says if I am not to be blamed the fire will protect me and she steps towards the fire the crowd Roars the women scream and then sitha jumps into the fire and then waliki says the dasas gandharvas rishis Indra and Brahma come onto the scene and AGI brings Sia out of the fire now in the beginning we had said that this is Ias right that is how it happened you may be wondering how do you explain this that she jumps into the fire and then AGI brings her out so we should understand that IAS Isam kukam puram that which has happened in the past and kukam that which is told in story format so sitha stepped into the fire and AG brought her out and then spoke to Ram we should understand that as the people spoke up as sitha was about to step into the fire and what did the people say they said SAA has done nothing wrong she did not come here by choice and they and AG tells Ram never again say such things to her Rah says I knew Sia very well I know her it is not possible for me to leave her I simply cannot leave her we are inseparable like the sun is inseparable from the sun's Rays the two are always together Rah did not have any question for Sia and now all of that falls into place why did he asked that she should take a bath and put on her jewelry it was all an act for this that Ram did not have any question for but he knew that people would they would question and doubt her and he wanted them to see her as the queen and so she had to come dressed as a queen and therefore they had to stand there and he said those provoking words those hurtful words so that they spoke up in response W miki's narration is clear as opposed to what we normally think Ram did not ask sitha to step into the fire never did he doubt her never did he question her but he knew that people would and he created a situation where they themselves accepted that sitha had done nothing wrong you know it's ironic that we falsely accuse Rah of having a mindset that he was in fact speaking up against that he knew SAA was not to be blamed but he knew that people would blame her doubt her question the victim what's the last of the 24,000 verses like where does it end there are six books of the ramayan balakan aodha arand kishkinda Sundar and yudan and then there is the utar kand which is you can say the epilogue now there are a lot of questions about whether the utaran is a part of the original ramayan that Mahi valmiki had written it is quite inconsistent in many ways and that is a whole other discussion but waliki also writes at the end of yudan which is the second last book rayam this is the entire ramayan so you can say that the ramayan ends with ram coronation and afterwards Mari balmiki says all was well in the land and S yes um so this incident about the fire and sitama stepping in is in the yudan yes so the yudan is in Lanka and there is the incident of the AGI Prav gotcha afterwards they come back to aodha and they are coronated okay uh RAM is coronated and this story of love and Kush the sons of ram yes that's in the utaran that is in the utaran okay have you read the utaran yes yes could you briefly take us through the story line in the utaran yes so the utar kand is after Coronation so Ram the coronation has happened and it is interesting that the utar kand is in many ways inconsistent with what we have read till that point in time in fact at that time in the utar it says that Ram then bid farewell to hundreds of Kings who had gathered in aodha because bhat had called them to fight raavan now that is incorrect because we know that in fact after the war when Hanuman comes to meet bhat that is the first time he has heard what has happened with ram lakman and sitha so this you know narration in the utaran is inconsistent with what we have read so far and like that there are many inconsistencies for example ravan is at times shown as a weakling in the utaran but whatever his uh you know drawbacks may be ravan was a great warrior in the valmiki ram until the yudan and he would never uh Bend right in fact he said even towards the end of the war that even if I'm cut into two pieces I will never bend that is Ran's character but in the utaran there are fights where he gets captured and then he asks he makes a truce he asks for his release or his grandfather came to secure his release Etc so like that there are many inconsistencies as soon as the utaran uh starts but what's the story line after the coronation there were some uh once again this is an inconsistency that after the coronation according to the utaran people were unhappy with sitha being the queen whereas in the yudan it is not mentioned the yudan says that Ram ruled for many years and all was happy and everyone was happy and all was well in the land so people were unhappy with sitha being the uh Queen and because of that Ram asked her to leave do you think people don't know these details simply because they've not studied Sanskrit yet definitely that's a part of it that many of the popular Productions are not based on the valmiki ram so the ram that they know does not answer these questions do you want to answer the age-old question about the rakshasas and the vanaras I've asked this to a lot of guests uh no one's given me an a solid answer till date so after all your study what do you make of the rakshasas and the theas sure and in fact see again the reference text is the waliki ram that is theas so who were the vanas if that is the question then let's look at what Mahari waliki has told us about this well where is the question wner means B monkey and waliki has also used the words Harang Shaka all of which means monkey also there are so many stories about the van's tale right however valmiki's words will make it clear and I'll give you many references uh how tell me how deep you want to go but there is no doubt that the vanas were humans that they were not a different race and they had the same cultural and intellectual Roots as the people of the Cities so the first question whether they were humans or not and their Tale right the first time the vanas come onto the scene is when RAM and lakman are looking for sitha they come South near humpy risham mountain sugri and Hanuman are standing on the mountain and they see these two uh coming and sugri is suspicious because they are dressed as atics but they're carrying bows and arrows so they are armed and he says this is suspicious he tells Hanuman to go and talk to them and interestingly he says go in your natural form and then Hanan gave up his monkey attire and when dressed as an aesthetic okay so first clue that their natural form is not the monkey form it's something that he could take off another clue you would have heard the story of ravan setting fire asking his people to set fire to hanuman's taale in that incident ran says this taale that the vanas have is very dear to them it's their hament abhushan it's an ornament obviously something that they put on there are other references also where the wanas take off and put on their attire for example when Hanuman comes to meet bhat right at the end he comes to aodha he takes off the monkey attire and before the war Ram gives a clear instruction to all the vanaras do not take off your monkey attire because we should know who's on which side this is going to be a terrible War a man-to-man combat and so in order to know we should know who is on which side don't take off your attire so as far as the tail goes it's an ornament it's something that they put on now let's look further the words that waliki has used for the vanas apart from what I said earlier Vanner Capi by the way all of these words are actually adjectives so when we say that they are uh they are used to denote monkeys the word wner actually means WTI those who draw sustenance from the W are called Wang which is used for monkeys means those who jump so if there are humans who also draw sustenance from the forest humans who are also adapt at jumping and leaping you can use the same words for them also waliki has also used the words Jana nari Stree and purush to denote the vanas kishkinda their capital city is called push janaka full of happy and healthy people J he has also called them which means Forest dwelling people so these were humans no doubt but they put on a dress like even today some forest dwellers would put on uh feathers or horns that was their attire that they could take out so effectively when we are visualizing Hanuman G actually it was a sage who would put on the gear which made him look sort of like a monkey an ape but he was probably a sage he was uhra he knew all the shastras he was an expert in the shastras and The Vedas and uh this also points to you know uh descriptions like this also point to the fact that they were not culturally different see sometimes we believe that uh Forest dwelling communities are different from the city uh dwelling people but here waliki gives two references one some of the vanas were born to rishis okay just like say ravan ran was also born to a Rishi people of aodha were also born to Ries and some of the vanas were also born to rishis he has given specific examples also that there was this wner called archishman he was born to AR Rishi called marichi Etc so they were not a different race he has also said at times that some of the vanas were born to Ruka which is Bears now if you say that wner actually means monkeys this phrase would mean that monkeys were born to bears but that's absurd obviously what wmik is saying as people who dressed like Bears give birth to people who dressed like wers apes wers you can say monkeys right they put on a tail perhaps even a face mask in order to look like AER but it was a dress that they could take off and their practices were also very similar uh for example when Wali was killed his last TRS the antim sansar was strikingly similar to how it was done for Dhat including jalali when sugri was coronated waliki says that all the VIIs were done as per the procedures set down by the Maharis in the shastras so the dressed differently but they were really not that different and geographically speaking they were from Karnataka no Karnataka too see once again waliki has clearly said they were found in the mountains and forests throughout the land all the way to the Himalayas and the Western guards so they were Forest dwelling people in fact when the war happened and sugri gave a call for all the vanas to come together there are descriptions of how contingents from the Himalayas from the west east everywhere they came together so this is all tribal folk from the subcontinent all forest dwellers what's the difference well let's just use the words that waliki has used because if you say tribal different connotations to that okay if you dial the clock for example you know one one uh point I would like to make make is sometimes we try to fit you know wanas into modern templates so we say forest dwellers all right then perhaps backward or you may think that uh you know they are different from the city dwellers the vanas were an very interesting Bunch they did not practice agriculture because they ate fruits and Roots the produce of the forest by the way they did not hunt as well the vanas did not hunt but there were other Forest dwelling communities which did hunt vegetarian forest dwellers yes again uh you know uh if you try to fit them in today's templates that is surprising also sometimes you think that because they are forest dwellers and they don't practice agriculture you know they would not have any Villages or cities well of course they didn't have Villages because there was no need they didn't practice agriculture but they had a fantastic capital city called kishkinda it was a Maha Puri a great City okay pretty satisfied with this answer actually it's one of the most accurate uh answers to this question which I've been asking for the last five years honestly well uh I would only say just like this all the answers are there in plain site in the valmiki ramayan okay let's move on to the rakshasas okay everyone's favorite topic is there an occult element attached according to you the first structures that we come across in the story is trataka or taraka right right in the beginning when RAM and lakman go to protect vishwamitra yagya at that time we come across the rakshasi uh trataka so this incident itself shatters many stereotypes about the rakshasas one she was two days walking distance away from aodha the incident where it happened RAM and lakman had walked for two days and then they met this rakshasi so they were not necessarily people of South India or Sri Lanka she was not born a rakasi she became a rakshasi trataka she was actually born in a very good family and over time she became full of rakas nness rasat so she became a rakasi many times we think that they were completely different society that they were the other but there are many instances where waliki shows that they had the same intellectual and cultural Roots again as the people of the other cities for example in Lanka Hanuman heard people reciting The Vedas he saw the swastic symbol he saw an image of Lakshmi and by the way he also says that the rasas of Lanka some of them were you know many times we draw them as hideous looking but valmiki says that some of them were viran hideous looking but also suran very good-looking they came in all shapes and sizes so w miki's words shatter many of the stereotypes about the rakshasas now did they have some special powers you know your question about uh the occult by that you mean I suppose special Powers right uh indrajit is said to have had the ability to become invisible he also had some very powerful ASAS and shastras the rakshasas are sometimes also confused with what we call assur right we use the words interchangeably but actually the fight between the dasas and the asuras refers to a Time much before the Raman and the rakshasas treat Trace their lineage to the dasas not the asuras but they had similar characteristics so sometimes the words are used interchangeably but they are actually different okay what is the origin story of ravan within the valmiki ramayan he was the son of a Rishi but his mother was a rakshasi and he became a rakas himself okay what other the gems of ravan have you Unearthed from your studies ravan could could have been a great king in fact when Hanuman first saw him he was brought in shackles and he looked up at ravan and his thought was he could have been such a great king but it's interesting how uh in the story the first time ravan comes onto the scene it tells us a lot about uh his character and why he had taken the turn for the worse so in panchawati Ran's brother K had attacked RAM and RAM had killed the entire rakas force at Janan including K and one of the soldiers akan ran back to Lanka and told raavan that their forces at Janan have been decimated right this is after the Abduction of sitama that is before this is before so uh and rahan says who has done this and I will go and kill him right now and and says he's too powerful you cannot fight him head on but there is a way he has a wife she's very beautiful and if you abduct her that will break him that will weaken him and that is why ravan decides to abduct sitha at that time he has not even heard about shanka by the way he has only heard from a compan that his forces in Janan have been routed shanka comes onto the scene later on but why were the forces sent in the first place right so in pcha shanka had come to uh The Hermitage where RAM lakman and sitha were staying she was attracted to Ram she proposed to him he declined she proposed to lakshman he declined to and then she thought that this was all because of SIA that because sitha was there Ram was not accepting her so she attacked Sia and in that Skirmish lakman came to the rescue and sh P was injured she went back and told her brother K that this had happened K attacked RAM and got killed or or again the more overarching topic is about rakshasas in general do you think that there's an occult element involved like why are the rakshasas described as a more powerful Army than the Vanner Sena for example well the rakshasas had access to ASAS and shastras just you know Advanced weapon systems just like uh the people of aodha or other jpads the vanas did not have any advanced War equipment they fought with their bare hands uh Nails uh their hands rocks tree trunks whatever they could find okay so that was the difference between the two armies one was very well equipped with all sorts of uh you know bows and arrows clubs Spears ASAS shastras everything okay would you like to draw about a picture of the actual War if we hypothetically take a time machine and go back to around 15,000 BC when that War was happening what did it look like how many people were participating what is the visual of the war field why do Ran's sons have those kind of powers in the first place what is actually trying to be said from a human history perspective so the yudan the final war between the Vanner SAA uh and Shri RAM and lakman against the rakshasas this war was very different from let's say what we may uh know of in the Mahabharat in this war there were no rules so it was fought day and night whatever it takes the vanas surrounded the city and circled the city on all sides filled up the moat there was a protective Mo around the city and charged and they charged with their with rocks tree trunks whatever they could find to break down the doors and attack the rakshasas came out of the city uh to protect it and it was soon a man-to-man combat so there are descriptions of a wner sitting on top of a rakas and these are detailed descriptions sitting on top of Anor grabbing his head to twisting it twisting the neck and yanking it off there were many many casualties by the way on both sides even before the war Rah had uh made this observation he said for one person's mistake this is going to be a terrible war w Miki describes you know dead bodies and blood that because of the fighting uh the dust had been kicked up right and you could hardly see and after a while the dust settled down because of all the blood and what emerged was a picture of Limbs and dead bodies and so on there were Millions upon millions of vanas according to the description now there could be some exaggeration in this but it was uh a very intense war with without a stop practically of course when both sides were uh you know tired or to regroup they would go back a little bit and attack again which side was bigger in terms of the numbers both sides were uh had had huge numbers at hand the rakshasas were better equipped because they had all the arms uh which the vas didn't have how does the war pan out ravan suffers one loss after another amongst his top generals of course there are times when uh the vanas also have a setback like the like the time when Indra jit's arrows injure many of them and of course there is the famous episode of RAM and lakman lying injured because of Indra jit's uh arrows so there is one interesting point where on the first day of War indrajit inj RAM and lakshman and he thinks that he has won the war that they are dead and he goes back and tells raavan that they are dead and he Embraces him thinking that the war is over on the first day itself but uh overall ran continues to lose one General after another finally uh he calls on kumbak karna his brother indrajit his son and in the end he goes himself as well what is said about him as a warrior he was a great War no doubt uh so was indrajit by the way who had won over Indra that is why the name indrajit RAM and uh Ran's battle is also described in detail and in the end the arrow that takes down ravan finally is described as you would almost think of it as a modern day missile because the description is given that it had a hollow center there was a fire burning through that hollow center and it could blast through uh man Beast or doors and that is the one that hit ravan and it went right through him and as his bow slipped waliki says even before he hit the ground his life breath had also slipped out of him it was so powerful what do you make of the Weaponry after your studies clearly there is some technology uh War technology that has been lost over time so we don't understand it some of it is possible to understand for example the description of the missile that I gave yes you would say some sort of a chemical reaction which generates fire and therefore the arrow Zips forward and Strikes but there is also the war technology uh technology related to mantras which we don't understand now we can't recreate that H that's clearly written in the valmiki ramayan yes that there was some element of well there are descriptions of them uh you know using mantras to fire up weapons so vishwamitra taught RAM and lakshman about a lot of Weapons Systems and how they exactly work we don't know but then what's written in the for example there is a list of weapons right there's a long list and I suppose that was clear for someone at that time what it meant in fact some of these weapons were also told that all right for that uh asra there two variants the dry and the wet type okay so it's it's a listing wow okay yeah so it's not just limited to the vimanas because that's what's made it to the West the West knows about knowledge about the vimanas yeah but there's also chemical weapons missiles other technology which could have been lost over time okay what fascinated you and by the way the viman is you would have heard of the pushpak viman but there was not only one viman in raan Lanka actually there were multiple womans parked like a parking lot outside his Palace that's how it's described okay what fascinated you the most amongst all this Weaponry talk what fascinated me was that the vanas had nothing in terms of this Weaponry but what they did have was strength and courage and they quickly overcame you know from a war point of view the rakshasas had a strategic advantage that they were powerful from a distance right they had weapon systems the ra and all the vas could do was throw things they had to be close enough to do that and the rakshasas gave up this critical strategic Advantage by not acting soon enough allowing the wner us to come close Mike Tyson you go in and Destroy okay uh is there any other part of the valmiki ramayan you wish to cover in this episode so Dash was the king of aoda and he was getting old and he thought that the time had come to hand over the Empire a parishad was called and dashad proposed Ram's name his eldest son and the parishad accepted the proposal and RAM was chosen to be the successor he would be crowned as the yuvaraj but then something happened because of which Ram was not crowned the yuj right usually it is understood that Dash asked him to leave like I said right in the beginning the summary you know somebody may say Dhat asked Ram to leave but in the waliki Raman that did not happen the night before the coronation Dash's Dhat had three wives and K one of them reminded Dhat that he had made two promises to her given her two bounds earlier because of uh she had helped him in a earlier battle because of which he had given her two Boons and now she said I want to ask for those Boons it's as if you know in contemporary terms Dhat had given her two sign checks blank checks and now she had filled them up and with the amounts and brought them back so her two asks were that her son should be made yuj not RAM and RAM should be sent off into Exile Dash pleaded with her to change her mind but she did not budge the next morning the day Ram was supposed to be coronated he came to see her touch their feet and all dashad could say was RAM and then he choked and he could not say anything Ram was shocked he looked to K and said what has happened and K told him about the two bounds and her asks Ram's immediate reaction was so be it G I will go into the forest and then very important in order to uphold the king's promise so Ram gave this reason that he was going into the forest because he had to honor the promise that the king had made Ram's argument was this Ram was always uh you know the primary driver for him was uh welfare of the people the well-being of all praa palan and he knew for that Dharma that is the rightest way of living and SATA are crucial if the king word is not held true then whose word is held true what is where is Dharma and so he could not do anything that would break the king's promise and he decided to go into the forest without any anger without any irritation his life had just turned upside down think about it many times you know we Face a shock it could be uh losing a job not getting into the college that we had wanted life takes a turn that we did not expect and what can be the most extreme of this from having the lordship of the whole world to having nothing at all that's the turn that Ram's life took and he accepted it without any anger he touched RAM and K's feet and at that time all Dash could say was kasham you know oh what terrible torture he he did not want Ram to leave to leave but he was trapped and then Ram went and told what had happened to his brother lakshman Mother Calia and wife sitha their reactions are very interesting so lakshman is also uh you know a prince and he does not agree with what Rah is doing he says it is your Dharma the right thing to do is for you to stay here and take care of the Empire you should not leave in fact he says take control of the Empire the full Isam before the word gets out take control of the Empire and I will help you lakshman knows that there may be resistance and there may be a Civil War and if it comes to that he says I will kill anybody who stands up against you I will kill everyone in fact even if it means not a single person is Left Alive in aodha Ram's mother Calia also tells him not to leave she tells him you're leaving because of something that your father said well I'm your mother I'm telling you don't go afterward Ram's Guru also tells him I am your Guru I'm your father's Guru too and I'm telling you do not go right so there are many um many very clo people close to Ram who are advising not to go but he continues to say that I cannot do anything which will break the king's promise and therefore even if it means see Ram had done nothing wrong in this right he was the rightful successor still he continued to hold that he had to go now the only person who did not make an argument that Ram should should not go was sitha his wife and sitha also knew uh waliki says that she knew the right thing to do she always followed it dhad dharini her only argument was that if the demand whatever was demanded of ram automatically applied to her because they were married and so she had to go as well into the forest that was her ask a lot of interesting you know uh learnings or takeaways for even our times I spoke about if life takes a difficult turn how are you able to face it sometimes we are let down by people close to us could be a colleague friend family here was leted down by his step mother and by the way he just called her mother so imagine being let down by someone you call Mother even then how do you react to the situation lakshman advised Ram do not go but when Rah said I will I have to go lakshman said I will come with you again and this is something incredible support lakan's argument was this when you were when you were chosen as the yubaraj as uh the Crown Prince you had said we have to do this together now you are being uh sent into Exile we have to do that together as well so his argument was Empire or Exile we have to do it together and finally the most important learning you know there are times when there is the right path which is the difficult one and then an easy path which one do we pick many times it's not clear which is the right path here Rah chose the most difficult path where he lost everything in spite of so many arguments by others that he could have accepted and said all right I will stay but will we choose the right path when we are faced with a choice like this okay can we go back to the geographical map of India mhm in terms of I think when most people think of both the ramayan and Mahabharat they try visually placing stories and events within the geographical map of India right once you studied the the actual ramayan did something change in your Viewpoint for example the whole Lanka thing we discussed right or uh there is a uh perception that Karnataka was the home to the Vanner vanaras originally and Hanuman G was born near humpy um therefore is he a caneda well so that part is true that the their Center was near humpy but they were uh they were there in the forests and mountains throughout the land okay and as to your question about the uh geographical layout while his descriptions are striking you can almost even today go and read about the descriptions and see that yes this is the place that he's talking about whether it is aoda uh you know the the main places of the ramayan aodha then chitra then panchavati uh kishkindha and finally Lanka so even in kishkinda there is the description of the the first time the rain uh arrives and how the colors of the rocks change you know the uh if you've been near humpy you would know that it's a landscape full of Boulders uh red uh red grayish Boulders and the description exactly matches uh what we see even today what has fascinated me about this whole conversation is that you have only uncovered all these nuggets because you've actually figured Suns Gru first am I right like that's the only way to actually dive deep into the waliki ramayan well that's the best way so uh you know you would refer a book to your friend if you like it right or you would refer a movie I would like you to read the waliki ramayan yourself uh which one pick up the Gita press gorakpur or you know uh the online versions but if you don't have time you know to learn something srit and read the original then you can watch the video series okay that you've made based on yes the 21 notes valmiki ramayan video series what's your intention behind making that my intention is to connect today's people with valmiki's original words okay do you keep going deeper into it every time you study it more definitely uh and that happens to all of us in fact that is why the ramayan is meant to be read again and again you do a Paran in the beginning we had spoken about the relevance of the Raman and you know whether you read a book about Fitness or or you read someone's uh podcast about Fitness and you get inspired and you do it again and again the Raman is also meant to be read again and again uh and of course you go deeper every time but why you know if you're playing uh tennis or table tennis or Cricket you practice the same shot again and again again and again right till that shot becomes your muscle memory next time you play it automatically the ramayan Mahari waliki wrote that because he wanted to set the highest example of good behavior so if you read it again and again the right actions become your default actions and that is how it builds character okay so you're saying that when you keep downloading the story The Emotions also get downloaded eventually and probably turn into some kind of character traits in yourself yes uh the waliki ramayan does not give dos and don'ts that you should practice this or not practice this everything is by example so when you read it again and again you get inspired and you do the right thing based on the examples that you've read gotcha okay yes sir that was the episode for today and your debut on TRS thank you so thank you very much enlightening uh I love doing these conversations because when I meet people like yourself who've dedicated the entire life to our history uh I always learn more and that's the case with the viewers as well so appreciate you appreciate your time and looking forward to meeting you again and seeing what else you have uncovered through the process of learning Sanskrit and the process of deep diving into waki's ramayan thank thank you thank you sir I hope you had fun yes okay awesome thank you sir that was the episode for today ladies and gentlemen I will direct you to Yash sir's Channel trust me I've been exploring it for the past last few weeks that's how we decided on this particular guest in this particular podcast please go and check it out in an age where we served an excess of information and we served information that may not even be historically accurate I think if you're looking at the ramayan from a historical perspective you should reference the work of people like yashad so definitely go and check out his channel he'll be back on the podcast very soon please let me know what you thought of today's episode and please let me know what you'd like to see in the future when we're making more episodes like this on TRS [Music]