Good afternoon and welcome to GovSchool. My name is Mark Knowles and I'm the founder of GovDirections and which owns GovSchool and I'll be conducting this webinar this afternoon entitled the request for proposal. If you currently have audio please turn that off. This is a recorded session and there will be opportunity to ask questions but it is important that we do that organized way. You should have received today by email a copy of A document that we will refer to is referred to as an RFP sample that I have on the screen here.
This is an actual RFP for a city in Georgia that I will reference as we go through the session today. And I wanted to take a real live proposal RFP to use as an example in our seminar. On your screen today, you should have a PowerPoint demonstration. The information will be available later for referencing back. I will send this out to you as well and do a separate thank you email at the end of this session.
The total session should take just about 30 minutes, and I'll open it up for some questions at the very end if you do have audio capacity. Just as a background, I founded governmentbids.com in 1998, and we grew that before sales of that organization. to a Quebec-based public company that we transferred to in 2001. Our company, GovDirections, was founded in 2006, and we now serve just over 63,000, 4,000 individuals throughout the country who are wanting access to local government, state government, and federal government information.
As a part of that service that I've had over the last 28 years, I also do... consulting work with local governments throughout the country and I want to use my background and my experience and winning some 300 plus different contracts and just over 36 states as a reference point for this webinar today but hopefully you'll be able to take what I tell you and and apply it to your own individual businesses the RFP was what we will talk about today and it's the request for proposal of course And the purpose of our session will be to identify the structure of a requestful proposal. We'll also walk through each individual section and explain its importance of a document. We will use that natural RFP as an example to identify each section, and we will pause for questions at specific points during the presentation. So if you do have a question, please unmute your mute button and ask that question.
First, what is a requestful proposal? An RFP is a solicitation often made through a bidding process or a formal process by an agency, typically a government agency, could be in this type of business a semi or quasi government or potentially a prime contractor or any agency or company that's interested in acquiring your services or your commodity or valuable asset that you're willing to offer. And they'll seek those responses from potential suppliers who then submit back a proposal to them.
Unlike a traditional bid where you would actually, I would detail to you exactly what I want, a particular commodity or something, and I want you to give me precise information back, a request for proposal does allow you a little bit more flexibility, and they're seeking information about that, about the services that you could provide. The parts of an RFP, first, you'll see this is somewhat common within organizations, especially in the government arena. First, you'll see a statement of work. You'll then see technical specifications, a schedule request, a list of deliverables, the contract terms and conditions that they're asking you to comply with, the format of a proposal, and then the qualification experience that you're able to offer, the cost breakdown, how they want you to, how you're proposing to work with them in terms of compensation, and then evaluation criteria.
And you also sometimes see additional requirements that are sort of sub. parts of these parts, for example, insurance requirements and other types of deliverables that you have to provide to a local government that are state government agency or federal government agency. Oftentimes, especially at the federal level where you start, you see a very precise format that all agencies are required to conform with. State level, somewhat the same, but a little bit more flexibility.
You often see at that point, individual organizations within a state sometimes have their own platform that they use. For example, a common one would be the Department of Transportation are often different than the administrative departments. And then at the local government, you'll see a myriad of different ways or different methods to issue RFPs, but you do see these common pieces of requests that you will see for an individual RFP. You know, one quote will sort of start up here. You know, it's supposed to be hard.
If it were easy, someone else would be or everyone would be doing it. You know, that's the thing about RFPs themselves. Whenever you see them, oftentimes people will frown away and then they'll walk away. Sometimes they're very short. Sometimes they're very long or more tedious.
But you'll see the one I gave you as an example is a very short, precise type of document, three pages. That's probably more common for an RFP. Now, the bids and bid specs, if there's some commodity and they would have specific specifications that you often see, those are more detailed and in-depth. response to an actual proposal and they want your ideas and your thoughts.
So sometimes it is very abbreviated and they're looking for your responses so that they can frame what they're going to do in the future. Oftentimes, of course, the RFP is somewhat, sometimes just the first step and you'll see that they will actually not, they may not issue the actual bid or award with the first prequalification. They may just be. looking to see the proposals and then they issue their own specifications later on that you can respond to on a secondary RFP.
So it is somewhat complex. What I typically say is, you know, as you step down in the level of government, you find they're easier to work with, easier to understand, and easier to respond to. So your local governments, your cities, the counties, schools, hospital authorities, the procurement districts, they... They're the ones that most, they have the least amount of individuals responding, but also have somewhat more of the flexibility. The one we're going to refer to today is an active RFP by the city of Milton, Georgia, and they're soliciting proposals for classification and compensation study and analysis, a management organizational type study.
And I will refer to that one. This is an industry that I work in, secondary, and respond to frequently. And you'll see in my particular area of interest, there may be 20 to 25 different RFPs issued each month.
And we would probably bid or respond to three or four. So here, another quote from a favorite band of mine. But, you know, you want to make sure it's the one that I want to define.
It's the RFP that meets what I'm interested in. I'm able to provide. I'm not, you know, it's not something I want to do or maybe behind the sky proposal. This is something I know I can meet. It fits me perfectly.
It fits my company perfectly. And so oftentimes I may go through 15 or 20 requests for proposals in order to find that specific one I want to bid with and respond to. And you'll find that you'll have better success when you do that. The first thing you'll find, of course, it's a statement of work.
The statement of work in this particular RFP is very precise. And it speaks to in one sentence, this is exactly what you're looking for. Sometimes it's not so precise and they're looking for ideas or more of your advanced knowledge, in particular in your industry, and they will spell that out. But in this particular case, they're looking specifically for consultants to conduct a comprehensive classification, composition study and analysis. I provide that service.
So consequently, this is of interest to me. In addition. I'm located, of course, in Atlanta.
This is located near Atlanta. So that's also something that's a bonus for me. And I've recently done business with organizations close by to the city.
So once again, it's a perfect RFP to respond to. And so it prompts my interest. You know, just at this point, I want to stop to make sure everybody is OK.
If you have any specific questions about a format or what we're doing or technical. questions, please open up your microphone. I'll be able to see that and I'll try to answer those. Otherwise, we'll move along. Just some tips whenever you start and you pull your RFP.
What I would always suggest, you take the document and I would print off. This was one of the things that it's often automated, but it's still better for you to print that document, read through it, read through the entire proposal, just to make sure that this is something that really fits your order. organization.
Pay specific attentions to the areas that I'm going to highlight for you as we walk through in the future and what these... and how you're planning to respond to them. And you will often find that once you get past your first, second, third RFP, that, you know, it's pretty consistent. And the documents that you have in place, you can reuse those and resubmit those with minor modifications. After I read through it, I would set it aside and I would think about it.
I would talk to my colleagues and my business partners and really just make sure that I'm the best fit. You know, if I had done business in areas close to this organization, I might reach out to those clients. just to see what they think and see if they've been approached by this organization just to see about their own work, their own proposals, especially if it's more recent.
And just once again, just to make sure that I'm not wasting my time on pursuing a request that potentially could, they have got somebody else already in mind or there's some reason why it doesn't fit me. And then I would step back and I would complete the proposal. I typically try to complete my proposal in one day setting, a couple hours. put it together, you know, set it aside, make and read through it, make sure I've covered the high points and then submit it later on and try to, you know, I don't submit if it's due in 30 days.
I go out to about the 29th day and submit it then. I wouldn't submit it right away and let it sit there for a while and not get it to that organization just too soon, just in case I wanted to make some modifications to it. The second part of the proposal you'll see is the technical specifications. Here within the document, in the document we refer to, and you see here the scope of services, the specs.
If you have a commodity, sometimes they're very precise in terms of what they're looking for. A service, not so precise. And the consulting work is somewhat general, as you would see here. But they do have some specific technical specs that they're looking for, and they want to make sure that I provide the following. I'm going to review current job classifications.
I'm confirming and recommending changes to their. the order of jobs. There's, there's, they also tell me some things that they, that I might normally would expect in this type of proposal, but there's not really requiring. So for example, there's no class specification will be written or rewritten. So that's actually a big, a big point for me because it allows me to reduce my costs significantly, you know, in responding to them.
And if I hadn't caught that one line, I might be going in 20, 25% higher than what, what I would normally respond to in terms of cost. In this particular situation, they're saying their class specifications are all up to date. So I'm going to also in my proposal, since I'm seeing this detail in the technical specs, I'm going to tell them if part of their deliverable back to us, I would want them to provide that information to me.
And then they want to make sure I establish appropriate benchmarking standards. And I'm going to conduct a salary survey. That's an added cost.
So I'm glad I caught that so that I'm able to go in and increase that. I would be able to know about that price point at that point. And then they want to make sure I do identify pay compression a little bit different.
So I'm going through it. I'm making sure the technical specs that I understand fully, my ability to respond to and have those listed out for my RFP. Schedule of work is the next big part of a document.
Oftentimes the RFP is laid out exactly the way I'm referring to it. Other times, you know, the... If the schedule of work, they're looking for someone to do something very quickly, they may push that up to on the first page of an RFP or the first sentence or first couple of paragraphs that they expect you to do this, especially when it comes to an emergency response.
And they want to make sure you're able to meet that timeline. Here, as we all know, work expands to fill the time available for its completion, according to Parkinson's law. So if they're asking for you to do something in four months, In your proposal, you need to tell them it's going to take you four months.
And, you know, don't go in there. I can do this in two months. They're not looking for short change. They're looking for somebody who's going to meet that specs. At the same time, if you know that it's what they're asking for, it can take you six or seven months.
Then you want to make sure you you alert them to that in your in your response. And oftentimes if they're asking for a quick turnaround and I know I can't provide that, I would actually not even submit a response. And I would sometimes that's even a sort of a.
note that potentially they're looking for someone else to have someone else in mind and they're and they're expediting their request but make sure that you fill the time that they expect in the RFP which goes to another point as well you know make sure that you know you're not too creative in your response you first you meet expectations that they have speak specifically to their their schedule of work and their speak specifically to their technical specifications If you want to add something, add that to the end of your request for response or within a specific subset, but make sure you... You, when you're going through that you're speaking specifically to what that organization is looking for, I try not to be creative because the first step is to get past the procurement official in a response. And that person is checking off and making sure that you meet the exact specifications that they're seeking. And so they're not looking for additional things that you can add to the actual process.
They want to make sure you meet that. The duration is important and make sure that it has been determined and speak specifically to that in your requirements. If oftentimes they'll tell you that this is the first part.
If there's a second part, then you can add on to that and that would be an addendum. I will stop once again and then see if there's any individual questions that might be there. If you open up your mic, I'll be glad to try to answer any questions.
If not, we'll move on. Thank you. The next step on an RFP, the next part is the list of deliverables. The deliverables themselves are very important.
And oftentimes I build my pricing structure around that deliverable so that if they speak to four or five, six different scopes or steps or things that they're looking for, I may frame my compensation around those steps. So for example, in this case here, there's four specific. They want the individual to come in and review specific information and then establish benchmarking. So I might in this type of consulting arrangement, I might go in and say at step A, once that's completed, I expect you to compensate me with 25 percent of my proposal costs.
Or or as you go through, it could be 10 percent. There's there's there's an expectation so that both organs with you and the agency that's hiring you or awarding you the contract would. would understand what you're expecting and then they can speak back to that. Oftentimes they'll spell that out in the document, but in this case here, it's not.
So I want to, you know, the first thing I learned in business is don't be a, don't be afraid of asking for compensation. It's important that everyone understand that they they're hiring you. Therefore they should expect you to compensate you and understanding that going into it is important.
In addition, most states will have a payment requirements and they will have a turnaround date so that when you invoice. The local government or state agency is required to submit payment to you within a specific amount of time so that you're compensated and you're able to provide the services at the level that they would expect. It is something that people sometimes are concerned about, but oftentimes you'll find that governments are very quick to compensate you, especially the local governments that you deal with, and especially if you're a small business.
But understanding each of the deliverables and the timeframe that you have is important. the process. And those are always spelled out.
If RFP is missing one thing that I would frown away from, that would be the list of deliverables. If it doesn't have that spelled out, I'm not going to most likely respond. It's simply not somebody, if they don't know what they expect, then it's not really worth my time responding to them.
Once again, I'll stop just to see if there's any particular questions. If you open up your mic, you can ask a question. Otherwise, we'll continue to move forward.
Thank you. As a part of the deliverables, you often sometimes you you want to know exactly if there's any additional items that are what's not normal in a typical response that you might have for your business. Most of us are in a lot of business that we know what we're doing. They're hiring you for that expertise. And you can sometimes make sure that they're including or they're not adding to.
things so that your typical pricing methodology isn't impacted. In this particular case here, they're wanting to have information about in-house information. So they're going to provide me some in-house assistance. So they may have somebody on staff they'll assign to you during that RFP. That allows me to reduce my cost to them.
Other times I want to make sure that since they spoke to the fact that they had... job specs already written, I would want to make sure I get a copy of that. So I might frame in my response a line or two that says, it is my understanding that you're going to provide this according to your RFP and make a reference back to that line item.
And my compensation is built around that expectation so that they understand what's expected. But read through and sometimes the deliverables aren't spelled out in a specific section called list of deliverables. It's spelled out. Throughout the document. For example, in this one here, somewhere we will refer to later, they want you to have some meetings with the mayor and the council.
Well, as we all know, we might go to one meeting and then you're sitting there and you've basically built in the cost for one meeting. And then a mayor may ask you or a government official may ask you to come back a second meeting. And when you're in that session, in that setting, you don't want to...
Blurred out, you know, of course, I'll come back and you'll pay me an additional thousand bucks. But, you know, in this particular case, you might spell it out in the RFP. You get one meeting according to what you're requesting. Each additional meeting would be available at this price. And go ahead and spell out that if it's if it's unclear and it's deliverable so that you can let them know ahead of time.
And that way you're covered and that expectation is what I would refer to as collared in your process. Contract terms and conditions, oftentimes detailed contracts are provided. In this particular case here, there really is no detailed contract. When I respond back, I may attach a contract.
Go ahead and lay that out. Here's a contract that I would expect and the parts of the contract that I believe could be, would be something that I would be able to use. In addition, what you'll typically find is they're going to have their own in-house attorneys or a city attorney, county attorney, a corporate attorney at the federal level, or a state secondary attorney within a department, that they're going to have very precise conditions, especially at a local, at these type government agencies, that they want to make it a part of their contract. But it is always worthwhile just to go ahead and include that. But understanding those essential terms and those conditions is something that's important because it's going to impact your cost.
And you want to make sure that you're not caught with something that you can't... agree to later on. So laying that out in the RFP is also probably very helpful. The format of the proposal, oftentimes they're very detailed, specific how they want you to respond. They'll ask you for specific number of copies.
They'll ask you to put them on floppy drives. They'll ask you to put them on disk. I see that less likely lately.
Sometimes they want you to respond electronically. Other times they want you to send it. by FedEx and have it delivered at a certain time, make sure you meet those very specific requirements because any of those items could be disqualifying factors. For example, in this particular proposal, it says in the introduction letter they want a cover sheet, one sheet, I try to keep it to one sheet, provide the official name, address, phone number, and fax number of your company.
Well, you want to make sure you do that. If you don't have a fax number, say, I don't have a fax number. Just don't leave it.
Just don't ignore it. as well as the name of the principal contact person and name of the person authorized to execute the contract. Make sure you fill up every specific item that they request. These are disqualifying factors, and you don't want to lose on the technicality. Experience and qualifications and how they address them.
Most proposals are similar, so once you build that proposal, you're able to use it for multiple agencies. Sometimes, though, you might have to flip it around and put it in different sections. And there are oftentimes...
The approach and methodology and your experience and qualifications are the most important. You know, what you don't want to be doing is using last year's experience and qualifications for this year's RFP. So make sure you keep it updated. And you're speaking specifically to more recent contracts that you may be awarded or subcontracts that you worked on. Oftentimes, if we're just starting out in a business, I mean, when we first started doing human resources consulting, we bid on a project in in Vermont and we didn't have any clients up until that point.
But we had a point that we, things that we had worked on up until that point. So we were able to refer back to those. I worked with this other company and I did this type of work.
And this is why I'm responding to you under my new company. Don't be afraid of that. Seize that and speak to it.
Make sure that any experience and qualifications that you list, that you're in good standing with those companies. Because even if they're not. listed as a reference. Oftentimes, especially in an area where it's more local responses, those procurement officials may reach out to those other organizations to see if they know your work and they understand your work and how you did and how you performed. And they're often allowed to do that.
Sometimes they're not, but most often allowed to do that. And then your approach and your methods, especially for an RFP, it's important how you're going to go about doing something and help them understand that view. very clear and specific in that. Understand that oftentimes whenever an RFP is issued, this is especially an RFP, they're not doing this frequently. They may not be familiar with recent upgrades in your technology, recent upgrades in your industry, and you need to spell out those methods and those approaches.
And this is where you can be somewhat a little bit more creative if you choose to be creative, if they have it open-ended. Make sure you speak specifically to what they're asking first. And then help them understand how you're going to improve that process. going forward.
The cost proposal here you're oftentimes you'll see it's spelled out. Sometimes you're required to submit your RFP in one place and your cost proposal in another event maybe sealed. Sometimes they don't want you to actually even submit a cost for an RFP. They want to know what the proposal is first and then they'll follow up with that in the second round in order to get the actual cost that you would be proposing.
And that's oftentimes the case whenever it's somewhat new to them. They don't quite know how they're going to proceed forward. And they have a project they're thinking about doing, but they're not quite sure.
So they'll get that RFP first, and then they'll start talking to you about the cost later. And then the review process itself, how is it going to be reviewed? Make sure you understand the timeline.
If there's not a detailed timeline, you may want to, once again, call your response so that you tell them that you're your price offering is good as long as you as long as you want i often do a three-month window so it's good if they get back to me within three months could be six months but you don't want to be open-ended because it is an offer at that point and you don't want them to seize that at a later date at a cost that you can no longer provide qualification experience a big part of most organizations is your own individual qualifications and how you plan to meet that work and how you've done that in the past. Always make sure that you've touched base on those experience areas that you've worked with so that if they're going to contact someone that you know that they're going to be able to give you a good reference. But a brief description of your experiences and qualifications and make sure you pinpoint the items that they're looking for. We all have different experiences, but in an RFP, they really don't only care about what you...
what you're learning, how you can provide back to what they're looking for on that particular RFP. A listing of BIOS, a proposed staff members on this one here, they want to know anybody that's working with us. So we'll make sure that we have those all up to date and at any given time that we can pull those out and provide that information.
A list of other clients that we listed in this particular situation, they want five years. Now I would think those nowadays you want three years. I mean, it's very difficult for companies to. to pull out a five-year recommendation and then still have that individual even located at the, that they've worked with, located at the place that they've been, that they served in the past, but have those available. If you don't have five years, I wouldn't ignore it.
I'd say, here are the last three years. My company was founded in 2010 and got consequently, or 2013, and consequently, I've only had three years worth of experience. And then I would speak to what I was doing in earlier time.
Don't be afraid of that past experience, even if it's not with your current company. What they're hiring typically at RFP is your knowledge and skills. And then a list of references and make sure you meet exactly what they want. Sometimes they want email addresses. Other times they want phone numbers, details to contact them.
Anybody I listed on a reference, I would make sure that I let them know, and I would probably send them a copy of my RFP so that they would be aware of what I was submitting to the other group. I don't think it's always good to make sure, especially of those. Professional type references.
Cost breakdown. Most likely you'll see this within a document. And once again, there are RFPs where they're not going to ask for the cost. But in is so you may want to separate those out in a different area.
But here they specifically ask you to do that. And in this document. And then they go tell you that they want a complete breakdown of cost so that if you have particular areas. And what I would do is focus in, for example.
back again to what we looked at earlier, the actual deliverables, I would speak to those individual deliverables. A, this is how much time I want to spend on that. And I price it out during those steps. So that's whenever they ask you for your individual cost proposal and they want to break down, that's really what they're referring to. If you're giving them an hourly rate, so if you have six or seven different individuals working on the project.
and each of those are different hourly rates, then you may want to tell them that. They'll ask you for that in that detail and the qualifications of those and how you're going to break that down. But remember, whenever you respond in this way, sometimes these organizations may be looking to award the RFP to multiple vendors or multiple contractors.
And if they do, then they can hold you to a particular part of that RFP. So make sure you're able to provide that first section if that's how that's broken down. And due to the cost that you're proposing, that part of your cost is not built into the second or third.
So if you are breaking it out on an average basis, just understand that you potentially could win part of the RFP and not the second part in your pricing structure. And also, you know, if they speak to certain things like here, they're expecting once again that you'll make three trips. Well, I would make sure I'd reaffirm that and say this. This is my understanding that you're asking for three trips and here is the price for that.
If you if it is. involves more trips, here's my price for that. Make sure that they understand that if there's additional requirements that you will, that you, there's additional costs associated with it. Most organizations do understand that.
And since they've spelled that out here, they would probably not be expecting more. But once again, they, in this particular one, they want you to meet with the mayor and council. And if the mayor asked for me to come back to a fourth meeting, well, who are you to say, I'm not going to, it'd be very rare for me to say, I'm not going to do it. So. you want to make sure you're able to meet additional add-ons should they request it.
Evaluation criteria, the most important part to me, I think, is how are they going to decide who to award this RFP? In this particular situation, they spelled it out and they've given percentages or points. This is something that you'll see very frequently. And so that you want to meet, especially if you're a minority firm or subcontractor, you're oftentimes there's points associated with that. So if you're able to add a subcontractor, add someone that meets those additional criteria, then you get those additional points.
But if it's 20 percent, if you're a small business and you're not a small business, that's 20 percent off right at the top. So it's very difficult to make that up. But in this particular situation, the qualifications and reputation is 30 percent or 30 points.
Mark, did you have a question? OK, so the audio disappeared. If you do have questions, if you take your audio off, you can you should be able to pop in.
The understanding of the city and details, and I would speak to that in my RFP. So I may have done the research that I've done. I would go in and look and maybe speak to the fact that it's a city of such and such size.
It's like you're doing, everybody knows how to do that. Add some information that shows that you meet that understanding of what that city is doing. Speak to some issues that they've had in the past.
Do some research there. team compatibility and including the ability to work with city staff. And you see here, this is 40%.
And look how generic, how that's, you know, how is that hard? That's very difficult to measure, I would think. So, you know, it speaks to a very, almost half the points are going to a very generic type of open-ended point. So I would spend time trying to develop an argument that I meet that criteria, team compatibility and how I've done that and use some examples in my work.
try to build that within that document. And the pricing structure, if you see here, it's very low percentage, 15%. One of the least concerns that they have, it is a concern, but it's not the reason why they're, if your price is coming in a little bit higher at this point, you still can win that RFP.
They're not looking at low cost proposal in this situation here. And everyone is a little bit different in how they do that. And in addition, they'll put there some sort of standard qualifications or evaluation. They can reject anybody. They don't have to take yours.
And they also are not going to be discriminatory. Details like that are important. And they're different from state to state.
In this particular situation, they do say that if you have questions, you can contact them. A lot of times that's really forbidden. And there's a zone of silence. So make sure you understand each agency, whether or not you can contact during the RFP period.
because that can be a deal breaker right there, a contact. And so make sure that you're aware. And the best way to do that is, and in fact, we do this for our clients, is we show you how to do business with that individual agency.
So when you decide that you're going to work with that individual agency, you go in and you actually review and you see how to go about doing that. And that's an important step and follow those individual procurement rules. It's not a reason to be disqualified.
And once again, you know, here's a last quote here, but the only source of knowledge really is experience itself. And Mr. Einstein, Dr. Einstein said this. But so you really have to dive in and submit a couple of proposals in order to to to win them.
And also understanding what others are responding to and how others are responding. So take a look at some recent awards. Do your research. Understand where the contract pricings are coming in. A lot of times you're able to go in and look at the cost breakdown.
And sometimes it's. by population, it's by hours that they expect, you know, the length of time of a project. Costing in local government is sometimes very difficult.
The federal agencies is probably more, they're almost all alike or identical. So you get your, they're very thin margins. Oftentimes in local government, you have very wide margins. So that's a good thing for your business. But you'll find that at the federal level.
You can have 40, 50 different organizations submitting proposals at the state level. You often see 10, 15, 20, and you have those responses. And then at the state and local governments, you look at three or four or five. And oftentimes they'll actually issue an RFQ first before you can do the RFP.
And then you have to have met that RFQ, the request for qualifications first, and then you're invited to submit a proposal. So every one of them is different. And I'll open it up now for any final questions.
And we have hoped to achieve our purpose for our seminar webinar today. We had hoped to walk through and Identify the structure or RFP. We walk through each section and explain its importance. We've used an actual RFP as an example to identify each section. And I've tried to pause and ask for questions through the process.
And your microphone muting should be available to allow you to ask questions. If it's, I can unlock the mute now. But that's what we have for today.
I do appreciate you sitting in. If you do have questions and you were unable to ask those directly or for technical reasons, please just email me those questions and I'll follow up with you individually for our seminar webinar today. And pay attention to others in the future.
We'll be glad to try to assist you. Questions, anybody? Thank you and have a good afternoon.