foreign ERS and welcome back to the Joe huddle welcome back to Andrea mcgeekin as well neosf CEO Andrea lovely to have you back that's great to be back because that's a long time I feel but yes good to see you yeah good good to see you excited to talk about um we're going to focus on kind of Internet internationalization almost said it wrong there big word um yeah to start off with though um you know you you had a kind of a personal transition um last few months you became the CEO uh maybe a quick word on that can you tell us how's that role been since uh frantic you do tend to get a little bit more traffic on LinkedIn um we've made a few moves actually it's not just me becoming the CEO it's uh We've um Advanced the Chief Operating Officer as well and Lydia who if any of our operators listening to this hopefully we'll have no Lydia she's really smart person and runs a really great team and we're very proud of how we support The Operators with it um France and itself so Nicholas is I was always the president of the French company um and France is very much the tech side and running that the product Tech development and the commercial side of the business is very much now more towards us so um if we take our different entities in different countries that's what my side of the business is doing so it made absolute um best best practice is a good word to use to become CEO I'm very proud to do it um and in my later years I always tell everybody but it's um I love this I love payments yeah I've never thought when I first entered it and back at ucash that I earned days in July 2007 when I entered it that I would love it because I really was a retailer but I do I do love it and and and I know it's challenging and it's God it's challenging and different every day but I do enjoy it it's a great place to be yeah I mean your passion for payments has always come through every time we've spoken and every time we've done a we've done a huddle um let's let's see if we can sort of Channel some more that passion into them as we talk about internationalization there we go I said it right this time um the first question uh when you were talking about so we're talking about Neo Surf and the internationalization of your services what are the core kind of things you need to consider when you're you know looking at going into other markets and Global and that kind of thing well today it starts with regulation whereas it used to start with how many shops are there and can we reach enough um customers to help it being worthwhile it is still important that we know what our footprint can be what our local Partners will be that can do the point of sale at the shop level and now we have online distribution and that has to be managed extremely carefully and we have some great partners but the number one thing now is regulation and even if it's even if it's extending in Europe it's regulation yeah and um I have to say something that I say an awful lot in the last 12 months we have two regulators naturally um our company has to be regulated by a payments Finance regulator be it um the financial conduct Authority in the UK If I serve somewhere else it does it elsewhere um but the gambling operators have their regulators and The Regulators are growing to become more um directive about payments yeah and so as you grow to extend a country or go into a new country I believe strongly that it is our responsibility to support our clients and the in this instance the gambling client that the operator gets something that meets the regulation never will our team sit there and go no that's that's your task yeah that's not how we see things at all yeah that it's a sad thing but actually it's a necessary thing and to be honest I'll talk about it later but we've found great ways of not having to interrupt the user journey in it and not having to add more pressure on the tech queue for our operators so it's useful yeah yeah I try I remember you know when we previously spoke when and you mentioned that concept of kind of I guess a dual dual regulation kind of way of looking at it and I remember you kind of mentioning some good examples of regulators who have done things a good way so um Holland in Ontario um yes yeah and obviously obviously not the case in some but you know hopefully they're all improving across the board yeah so actually that's more to do the engagement um so if they engage with you and the Netherlands um regulator gambling regulator engages talks to you yeah they're not necessarily gonna you know they're not so let's go for dinner and have a conversation about it that's not quite at the engagement but they engage and talk and if you ask a question about something they'll take the time to explain what they mean yeah finding a massive difference you see that in the US as well that The Regulators will explain and Ontario I think the Ontario people led the way on it yeah it was a refreshing side it's true that the U.S states that we're going into gambling in New Jersey is just the the guys there are absolutely amazing and Brilliant and passionate so maybe that's unfair on them saying that they were first but I'm talking about for us and that that approach is superb and we Embrace that yeah we embrace it but now it's a question of well I'm moving on really but it is about how we it's all right saying that but what do we do yeah um well yeah that's a good segue uh the next question I'll I'll I'll I'll hit you up with uh you know in terms of internationalization what what are the steps you've taken recently and and as we're fairly early into 2023 you know what can we expect from from you guys in the upcoming year okay well it does come down to as um accepting that we have two regulators and how do we deal with it um so and as I say it's not just new countries um one of the cool things we did actually is we've separated the games Market Esports people into digital cash and we in launched that last April but that's just getting out of its beta and soft launch Satan went live in Australia a couple few weeks ago um and it's now going to be rolled out so now we've got to focus we've got people in our business that are focused in different areas um and one of the cool things that we've got is what we call the kyc handshake so when we talk about regulations we've got a responsibility of what we're doing and this is why the regulator in the Netherlands has said yes you can do that if you're doing this this and this and all this is how we do that then okay that's fine so the kyc handshake literally are calls in the back of the API behind the customer because the vast majority of customers are going to get through that fine and we don't disturb them um and it helps either share information it helps give data about information um in the UK from a social responsibility point of view in the Netherlands it's about traceability or something called a cash voucher that some of our competitors would like in the world to know that that's dying if not um the vouchers Anonymous no it's not just because you don't have to pass it possibly put ID at the point of buying it depending where you're spending it there's methods of doing that and there's smart ways of doing it and the answer to your question really is technology and and that the kyc handshake starts to become even more important when we go into um some other territories the USA very much of course but we're entering places that not necessarily for the gambling world but we're entering Philippines Japan and India this year we are stretching out into the latam area and one of the things we're also doing is using the ability to bring the local the current local payments that exist to load into near surf which isn't new it's people see that everywhere but maintaining that with our ability to understand who that customer is and keep a low Tech and that's what I was talking about this guy who um sat in September guy it's interesting to call him a guy very very good one of the best payments guys in the industry and I promise I always promise never to mention his name but he said something to me which really really resonated he said you know what payment companies you're all doing your best you're all out there I'm gonna get this right I'm gonna do that I'm going to get this right I've got this new technology oh we're going to go that we're going to go that way and you're going to be absolutely it's going to make your world so much better I have no space in my tech queue is it you're either acquisitioning each other and I've got to start again you're changing your platforms you've got a new thing he says I can't open a new country because all you guys all you do is take my tech space up and it would be really nice if you could do that work and not make me have to do a whole load of things it influenced our kyc handshake more than ever so that actually it's within the same API and so all of these new places we're going to an extension of things with the regulators that's what 23 is about is making this grow and not burden the operator support the operator sure sure that's what it's about yeah I wanted to pick up on your point about the the prepaid vouchers and the cash vouchers um how are operators seeing your growth internationally because as you mentioned a lot of competitors playing that sort of concept that area down I have to say it's tough It's um sometimes you you're going back in time in your conversation with some some of the operators especially you've got new payments people coming in and the payment person has changed their role and now they're they're trying to see things and potentially wouldn't buy our cash voucher at all in their world yeah so it doesn't help that a lot of our competition have made a decision to well actually it does help because it leaves more for us um but it doesn't help that the statements that um some of our larger competitors make in the yeah you know vouchers are on the way out and so saying that they're Anonymous you can't have them Anonymous and traceability are different things um it's private but we we can trace that com that um voucher purchase and we deliver according to the regulations but this is a tough call but the operators who do start to come on board or are extending us and it's not just new operators and then see the services that we're giving and the service level that's why I sort of our chief operating officer our service level is at the heart of what we want to do and then this adding we're simple in what we're adding we're not bringing out some major wallets that can do this and do that and obviously we've got to do something so one of our best kept secrets was payout so that the ice this year is the first time we thought you know what we need to tell people the payouts is available yeah and so we've been pushing that um so we're keeping to our core we're keeping to our call and we're doing it really really well and we're delivering customers who repeat and come back and we keep the business model smart and we keep a very very open and transparent conversation with our operators and we are seeing that work and we are seeing that in some territories where they've got difficulties that we can help them and there are operators out there that potentially would say this back I would never name them in an interview is that when we say we're going to try and help and do something we do yeah but in what we're doing we're not trying to become all things to all men and we're killing the myth cash is not dead the European Central Bank has just released some thinking for Europe it's a developed area about cash hasn't died at all don't forget it so what we're doing with our voucher is bringing that cash and allowing people who are cash customers and sometimes they're cash in tomorrow they might be harder than the next day there are cash so not just about a path it depends what they're doing yeah to bring cash into digital and we're focused and we do it well and we do it in a smart way and we're scalable yeah so yeah that's just we're keeping our Focus cash will still be right up there at the top of our list all our competitors seems to be oh yeah you can Google pay Apple pay do all of these things oh and you can do cash that's we're not and you can do cash at all yeah so cash is not the only thing of course but it is fundamental yeah given that focus on on cash and and everything that we've uh We've mentioned so far a sort of final area slash question from me what do you see the future of Neo surf's International markets being and as a bearing in mind particularly what you're saying that that you know competitors are not placing a focus on cash or prepaid vouchers you know I suppose that's where you can differentiate I think the answer is keeping to what we know best but making it easier and smarter and making sure that what aspects need to be delivered for different Regulators in different territories is achieved and we and we honor that so it's about making sure that we can reach those customers some countries that we're entering have had cash voucher solutions for ages because they're developing countries and there's no reason why we can't just accept those those local payments to buy near Surf and give them a direct access to other Merchants that we're with um but if we do that we do it properly we do it smartly best user experience is always at the heart of how we do that and with a kyc handshake product making sure that all the traceability is there payouts is absolutely fundamental it's been a very very weak service for any prepaid voucher or product that goes in so building that and making that a little bit more scalable and sustainable is is really very very smart and it's really cool with the operators that work with us they're seeing the benefits of that and so we're rolling that out much much bigger so it is get that we we will reach more people our international team that look at the distribution is now quadrupled we've got more people we've got a guy right at the top and those guys are focused on the reach we will be in in all the countries we're in today and the countries were going we have a focus that we will have the biggest footprint and the biggest access to customers and that's what we will do but at the heart of it we'll do it properly yeah smartly and an operator you can have the confidence that what we say is true we don't just walk away and that what we deliver will deliver well and we recognize their gambling regulator as much as our payments regulator and we take responsibility for that I think that's it that's what we're doing well Andrea thanks very much for your time as always I mean best of luck on 2023 but I'm sure I'm sure we'll speak again soon and I'm sure yeah I'm sure there'll be developments in regulations in internationalization almost couldn't say the word again cash all these things yeah it's not dead yeah uh thank you very much give your time thank you Andrew thank you foreign