Transcript for:
Joshua David Evans and Colleen Ballinger Saga

foreign I'm really scared to make this video I am dreading making this video this video is something I never thought I was gonna ever have to make in my life I went from the boyfriend to the fiance to the husband Joshua go find some kind of peace I wanted to leave Josh alone this is the very first time in six or seven years after it happened where I feel like if I were to say something I'm not going to be attacked by millions of people all over the world call you the most vile horrendous disgusting life-running words telling me you're nothing without clean every single day she loved the attention she loved the status do I think she truly loves her fans I never really felt like she did my attention that night on diverted over to Josh he mentioned that he always wanted to speak about Josh his overall aim was to build an audience and then make the Josh video and he had made that very clear I hate that I have to have keep having this conversation so you guys I'm scared because I've seen what she can do behind the scenes I'm afraid of her I would never make a mistake like that and they compared her to a train and they said this is the Colleen train you either get on as a passenger or she's going to leave the station without you today I only want to talk about the facts and that's just the narrative that's believed when I started covering the Colleen Ballinger Saga nearly three months ago the last person I expected to slide into my DMs was Colleen Ballinger's ex-husband but on Friday June 30th that's exactly what happened I'm writing to you to communicate and give some personal insight about my involvement in all of this I'm not looking to control the narrative or sidestep any responsibility I do however want to make sure that if you decide to do something that focuses on my role here that it is shown from a perspective including my voice as well these are the words of Joshua David Evans a man we've mentioned in all three of the documentaries in my series on Colleen Ballinger but haven't actually heard from directly across the roughly nine hours of our coverage now for those of you who don't know Joshua David Evans is a man who came to fame as a musician and YouTuber in the 2010s under the screen names Joshua D-Town and Joshua DTV the best way to explain Josh Evans is that his entire brand was cringe now he didn't create cringe content but he knowingly created very tongue-in-cheek content that has aged to varying degrees of okay to quite poorly but for better and worse it's not this content that made Josh so famous that he was interviewed by ABC News featured in MTV true life and was in general a pretty big part of the mid-2010s YouTube Stratosphere it was his relationship and later marriage to none other than Colleen Ballinger hi guys so today I'm here with my husband Joshua I'm not crying I promise Josh Evans stated Colleen from 2009 to 2015 and was married to her from 2015 until 2016. now for the entirety of their relationship both Colleen's massive fan base and Josh's own fan base became invested in their relationship to the point that they even had a cute little couple named Josh lean and it was this level of investment that may have felt so devil stating to the fan base when on September 30th 2016 Colleen Ballinger suddenly released a video that announced after less than a year and a half of marriage that she and Josh Evans were getting a divorce Joshua and I are getting a divorce and over the years Colleen rarely if ever spoke about the divorce to the point that the Colleen Ballinger snark subreddit even had an entire subsection called The Phantom divorce detailing the phenomenon of Colleen pretending that she was never even married before at all as she moved on from her past marriage she released two seasons of her Netflix show haters back off she toured relentlessly as Miranda Sings and she moved on to another relationship with her haters back off co-star Eric stocklin eventually marrying him and having a few kids with him now if you were following Colleen at the time you might have said she wasn't perfect but she was moving on gracefully but that was publicly because while she was doing this she was also involved in group chats with her fans dishing about the many reasons that she and Josh got divorced according to her one of these group chats was known as the weenies group chat where she told some of her top fans about details from their past relationship all while showing a love of transparency that is objectively inappropriate in private correspondence with her fans and as we all know there might be no one who experienced this worse than Adam McIntyre a remarkable young man we've followed for the past three documentaries who alleged Colleen was inappropriate with him back in 2020 before coming forward again in 2023 to state definitively that he had been used and manipulated at the hands of Colleen Ballinger this woman used me but what about Josh Evans friends that's an answer that the Colleen fandom thought they had figured out for many years because of Colleen's correspondence in these group chats where the image of Josh over the years became as Adam McIntyre so astutely put it the crazy ex-husband okay it's a lose-loo situation for this man this seems incredibly draining he couldn't have spoken up in 2016 he couldn't have 2017 18 19 20. look what happened to me in 2020 and I wasn't her husband I was just uh by herb and her fans a crazy fan could you imagine being the crazy ex-husband it's this diminishing of Josh from a fully fleshed person separate from his past relationships that partially led him to leaving YouTube behind over the following years and fully in 2022 for a more private life with his wife Pamela working a day job not related to entertainment and living in a self-described tiny house and this is more than likely where Josh would have remained if it weren't for a two month long series of tweets podcast appearances and interviews that began on June 7th from a grown man named Johnny Silvestri or John as I'll refer to him who In the Heat of the Colleen Ballinger accusations gaining ground on social media began accusing Joshua David Evans of being worse than Colleen Ballinger Josh has an ego a massive one and it's one that I can pinpoint and address not even knowing the dude on a personal level to this day it turned into this God complex where I think to this day he has this skewed idea that he was being a mentor now if you've seen part three of the series you already know exactly how all of that ended as much as John tried to force Joshua to stay silent ironically it was John Silvestri himself that pulled Joshua David Evans back into the spotlight and into my DMs back in June 30th 2023 Joshua himself said as much to me in his first DM which is lengthy I mean let's be real the man can talk so I'm not going to read it in full but there are a few things that he said that made me quite curious quote this whole thing isn't about me but my name is obviously one that gets talked about from time to time Johnny is hurting and I absolutely want peace and healing for him I also know that for some reason he's taking my involvement to a degree that feels more like a malicious attack rather than simply a person hurting his claims are highly damaging and could burn down the life I've slowly had to rebuild after my own trauma I was put through by my ex and her manipulation tactics using her fans as pawns it now feels like Johnny is heading down that road as well now this passage was interesting to me because for those of you who haven't watched part three of my series by June 30th 2023 when Joshua sent this DM he had already apologized privately and publicly four times so I sent Joshua a response and to balance the shade that I kind of just threw him a little bit ago I can also talk okay don't yes I can get a little long-winded too so I'm only going to read a couple of key things from my response here quote since you reached out I do have a few questions that research hasn't given me straight answers on relating to a few parts of this story and I was wondering if you would be interested in answering them for me and perhaps sitting down for an interview to share your side some of my questions pertain to your relationship with Johnny your status as a public to private person and other questions that relate to your involvement with fandoms both Colleen's and your own now I let Joshua know that any interview wouldn't be easy but I promised I would be fair I told Joshua David Evans I had a lot of tough questions about the many words that have been thrown at him over the years was he really a crazy manipulative ex-husband was he really complicit with the Colleen Ballinger nightmare did he really help make Miranda Sings material his response actually shocked me quote if I were to go on the record with you it feels risky I'd be an idiot not to at least please consider it going sour if I lose my job I lose the house I just bought with my wife so let's be clear Joshua David Evans has done some sketchy but unlike every other adult in this story it seems he's willing to admit it certainly beats a ukulele doesn't it now it's not up to me if Josh is going to be forgiven or if he has taken the correct approach to accountability but unlike every other adult in this story like Colleen Ballinger Corey DeSoto John Silvestri or Chen Ballinger Joshua David Evans has offered to take accountability in return I am giving him the chance to also speak frankly about his own claims of pain publicly for the first time so as John Silvestri said back in part three the world does want to hear Mr Evans the world wants to hear all of bum and remember what I said all the way back in part two there is also a bombshell that might happen in part three I have been waiting to even be able to speak about this and I still can't because we are waiting for some things to be confirmed but if that is the case then part three is going to be just mind-boggling yeah that wasn't supposed to be about John Silvestri and what went down in part three that was about this for the first time on such a massive public scale Joshua David Evans is talking about it exclusively in an interview with me right here alrighty Josh interview take one my name is Joshua David Evans I'm 39. Joshua we have a lot to talk about buckle up there's a lot to cover foreign [Music] hi my name is Swoop please allow a brief tone shift that I do at the beginning of all of my docs to thank you if you're seeing me for the first time welcome I make documentaries and short films on Unsolved cases True Crime and social media influencers who abuse their power and manipulate audiences because as I always say it's not drama it's dangerous we also dig deeper into the root psychology and sometimes we take it to Petty University now real quick and then we will jump right in a huge thank you to our sponsor without them this doc isn't possible and again thank you to all of you so I don't know about you but I hate and I mean hate shaving the time the razor bumps the mismatches that you thought you got until you wear shorts and then the Sun hits it exposing all of your mishaps yeah that but like going to laser hair removal route is so expensive and time consuming so instead of all of that I have 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I'm also launching a brand new second channel that you can subscribe to right now I will be producing entirely new shorter deep Dives on topics that fasten me as well as things like full-length interviews that are featured here so I hope you will join me over there it is linked below okay as we get into this I want to give a heads up that these conversations will be censored and there will be no graphic or detailed discussions to make sure that we adhere to the platform's policies there will be statements made that are alleged and we will present cooperating evidence where appropriate while my team and I have conducted extensive research please do form your own opinion and as always please do not spread any hate on any platform ever and be respectful in the comments with the goal of Truth and healing for everyone thank you for that so I want to reiterate something that I said at the end of part three I am not team John I am not team Josh I am and always have been team truth here Joshua David Evans will be the first person to tell you that he is not an innocent person and even though it makes discussing this story a bit more nuanced he has done some bad things he also had a lot of bad things done to him again two things can be true at the same time I still know there very idea of platforming Joshua can be controversial to some and to be fully clear about this I'm okay with that I knew that a lot of people in the Colleen fandom deserved to hear about it this is something by very small but dedicated team and I have discussed at length and when I say our team is small it's literally just me and two other people one of those people has a full-time job and the other one didn't even know who Colleen Ballinger was before we started this process and now I believe is the world premier expert on all things Colleen Ballinger that's how much time we've dedicated to this now all voices are welcome here in a swoop dog even the uncomfortable ones all I've ever asked for is honesty and accountability and it's up to them if they're going to give that or not Joshua lived this Joshua admitted this when I finally sat down with him on July 21st 2023 his first full interview about his role in the Colleen Ballinger Universe since his divorce back in 2016. this has been seven years in the making and just to note Colleen Ballinger has still not responded to my request for comment let's take a breath Joshua we have a lot to talk about as you know I first just want to thank you for sitting down here with me I know this has been a difficult time for everyone involved in this situation that's been just unraveling across the world really and the public has really been watching everything that's been going on as I'm sure you're aware my goal here is to just make sure that this is fair and balanced and to be able to help provide some more context to all of this the whole story everything that's been going on be open be honest that's all I can ask for some of these questions are not going to be very fun yeah uh ready for that you said that you've turned down a number of interviews and um I've had a lot of mainstream media reach out and ask to do this exact situation and I said no to all of them I'm only doing this here I'm not going to do it anywhere else I don't want to hop onto other channels my intent is never to overwhelm anyone that I speak to and to you know things become triggering or anything as I've mentioned we do have a trained crisis counselor on set so if we need to stop if we need to take a break whatever it is just let me know and we can do that okay we just want to make sure that while we're getting the open honest answers and telling your story we're also doing it in a healthy way that's not going to trigger you I appreciate that okay yeah I'm nervous I'm nervous um I don't I'm going to be as transparent as I can and I mean that it does feel like a hurricane is in my chest right now so I will not I'm not afraid to face things and to speak from part here are the facts that I have in front of me when Joshua first reached out to me John Silvestri had accused him of harmful behavior and regardless of how exaggerated and often false John silvestri's allegations turned out to be Josh himself had contributed to the culture of Colleen Ballinger's World in troubling ways obviously there are allegations that have been levied against you and we're going to get into those but you have also alleged that you are a victim as well and that's something that I and my team take very seriously beyond that you were the only adult during the whole Colleen era and all of that that is speaking and I think that is also very important in this conversation I kind of expected it to be different I I didn't think I'd be the only one to me it's just weird that I'm the only one talking but I was there's I mean it makes sense as well because if you choose to have an opinion or a stance then that means people are going to be able to criticize you and look into you and I understood that going into it but I also thought there was something more important than just how I was being perceived when I started to see the true effects that had happened on these young adults so here I am uh the criticisms keep rolling in and um it's it's hard I'm used to not looking good for the last seven years I just hope that something between this conversation and your videos I think part one and part two of your videos have already done a lot for the people that would consider themselves affected or victims um and maybe this will kind of help put a period to that sentence I was born in Macon Georgia to very conservative parents I've always been drawn to entertainment I was obsessed with anything like music related growing up that led to being cast in musicals in high school and I loved it I loved every second of it and I had made videos since I was a kid and then when YouTube came out and I was aware of it I was aware back in 2008 and I would watch people like Smosh and Shay Carl briefly tell me what your role is in this Colleen Ballinger story from your perspective early on it was I'm the boyfriend of this Miranda person and then that kind of it took hold when I proposed and I made a video out of it um and then it skyrocketed it changed and then I had an audience so then it I definitely was perceived as like the boy next door the guy that you might maybe you'll find a guy like Josh one day and not to say that like I'm some great prize but I knew I knew how they were viewing me and I tried to remain as authentic as I could that evolved into now I'm the fiance and um look at all the things that he's doing I wanted to put my heart into it and there was a chunk that it was just it felt perfect everything felt perfect then we got married and when that happened it just all kind of started going downhill it became almost like they were watching uh a soap opera and trying to read between the lines and I could feel that they were they were making comments about what's going on it feels different the sad part is it was different I started to feel almost like a character like a sitcom character like I was replaceable one of the questions I would consistently get was if you weren't married to her who what YouTuber would you want to be married to and I always it always struck me odd because I'm like why would you even ask me that like this is a real life this is a real marriage this is a real relationship I don't sit here and think well if it's not her which one would I want you know and so I would address that on camera and be like We're Not sitcom characters this is this is real so I'm not going to answer that question and to then have it evolve into real life it did feel like I was swapped out it did feel like I was replaced and no one ever addressed that there's a new husband in the mix I was there for seven years and now I'm not and everyone's okay with it maybe who I am and what I am has never had any value to them or even to myself I am replaceable that's a hard thing to swallow when the public thinks that is one thing when you feel like the person that you trusted most treated you like that I mean it it crushed it crushed me it crushed I mean I was already an insecure person I think most performers in a way are we're always seeking some type of validation Sometimes some type of Applause or a good job um well let me let me ask you really quick when you became the husband that everything just kind of went downhill from there and so you are you speaking specifically just about the fandom or was it once you got married to Colleen Did the marriage also just seem to spiral downhill pretty quickly uh it was more about behind the scenes that things were changing and I couldn't stop it from changing and I tried over and over and over to get us back on track and I think people can see between the lines to an extent foreign much of the public knew that Josh and Colleen had dated from 2009 to 2015 and for the most part they presented themselves as a happy loving Carefree couple but as we've learned time and again what the public sees isn't always the reality of the relationship when the cameras are turned off do you think that do you have a moment where you you had a realization of now we're married and just something has changed was there some I don't think it was one single moment Colleen and I always had a difficult relationship from the very beginning it was very passionate and very explosive um but never truly consistent and I was so infatuated that I just ignored the red flags and kept fighting for it kept pushing to make things better when you when you really love someone you don't just let it go because it's hard you you adapt you evolve you compromise I felt like I did that over and over and over the thing that changed really was when we got married it kind of felt like any effort to meet me in the middle stopped How Dare I ask for something how dare I say could you maybe not film tonight and just sit and have dinner with me I tried to take us to couples therapy she was very resistant I was so down I was so down I don't mind talking about my feelings obviously she only went a handful of times and I would always go regardless if she would show up or not and every single session she didn't want to talk about her it was always me my problem what I was doing wrong what I needed to redirect in my brain and it was infuriating and sad because it's just constantly just you're wrong you're wrong not her you're wrong like when when you say things like you know she saying that you're wrong you're wrong what was that about just was that about content that you're making or how you were approaching the relationship or I I felt disrespected a lot in that relationship I never want there's a misconception out there that I was some controlling husband boyfriend guy that was not supportive of what she did and it always bothered me because I always rooted for her I I'd go I went to so many shows I participated in videos yes it it helped me out too but I never once said don't do this don't take that show don't tour right now I never ever guilted her for that all I ever wanted was hey if you're gonna do this can you talk to me on the phone and it wasn't like please talk to me for two hours a day it was just normal to me it felt like Norm a normal request and that always evolved into difficult conversations arguments that I didn't understand that I was selfish that I have expectations that are unreasonable and I started to believe all of that but in retrospect I wasn't asking for anything major other than a normal what I would view as a normal kind of relationship with the person that you've been with for seven years and there were other times that I just thought I thought she was really rude there was a lot of times where on her tours the amount of times I had to apologize to the tech crew and the people running the event because of how rude she was to them almost like I'm a queen don't talk to me talk to my assistant and I would look at that and go what do you what are you doing they're here to it's their job the least you could do is like give them eye contact and respond she was just so either abrasive or just didn't care and I could see it in the faces of the crew and time and time again at least seven or eight times I said I'm so sorry she's she's having a rough week it's not anything about you and I would try to make excuses because I didn't want her to look bad and then I would try to talk to her about it and then it was me being wrong again I don't know I don't know what she thought I was expecting her to be but anytime I thought wow that I wouldn't have spoken to them that way so on June 30th 2023 the LA Times ran an article about the Colleen Ballinger Saga about Joshua David Evans opening up for the first time in years in response to Colleen's ukulele response video this article cited a tweet of Joshua's which said quote I was gaslit too this was one of the first times a major press publication had ever discussed Joshua's own allegations against Colleen Ballinger and here he was able to open up about it for the first time with anybody publicly yeah I just felt like whatever truth I thought was there she denied that truth and made me feel crazy about it or how she would talk about fans or what she would say about all the gifts that they brought there was just so many moments where I thought that's that's gross will she talk negatively about fans to you behind the scenes was that something that happened or happened often I don't want to paint a picture like she was just this monster that just spewed hate towards her fans because it she she quote loves her fans I have a different interpretation of what love means to her but there were a lot of times where she would talk negatively or make fun of someone or joke about what she was going to do with all the gifts on the tour bus and I just thought to myself I would never talk like that these people are giving us a job I'm curious because you just said that she that you have a different definition of love than she did and I'm curious like what you mean by that if you could just elaborate more on that she says she loves her fans when you love something there's a there's a part of you that's selfless or that's truthful or that's just kind and I didn't see a lot of that and to me it felt like she didn't really love them as people she loved what they provided for her she loved the attention she loved the status she loved like it gave her a thrill and she loved it but do I think she truly loves her like loved her fans I never really felt like she did I think she just loved what it gave her and one of the biggest times we had a fight was because of her fans we were doing uh the Josh and Colleen tour we had a husband and wife tour and what year was this do you remember January of 2016. you guys ready for this or what anytime like I had the mic and it was you know it was it was both of us on stage and we both had different things we would do and then we did stuff together but when we would interact and I felt like I was ad-libbing a little bit and improving she I could tell when she did not want me to keep talking she gave me a look on stage while I was doing it because I had gone on for like 30 45 seconds longer than we normally do about a bit and on Mike I said oh I know that look she wants me to shut up guys we went on we finished the show I got on the tour bus first when she came on the bus I had never seen her so livid with me some of the eye contact that you saw in the ukulele video kind of that a darkness in her eyes yeah there's been a lot of comments on on people's perception of her look there I saw it all the time especially in that moment and she came in and she's not really one to yell at me she wasn't like that if anything she just completely ignored me but this time she yelled and she was like how dare you make me look bad in front of my fans how dare you do that and I was sitting there thinking what I don't think I really made you look bad I made a joke it's like a husband wife saying look honey doesn't want me talking here I go again but it I was I was being honest two on stage and I in that moment I realized she cares way more about how she is perceived than what the truth actually is I I got it she let me have it it was scary I mean it was scary because I'd never seen her really look at me that intensely before I think it's interesting that you you said the you know I'm assuming you were paraphrasing but uh if she was saying something like how dare you do that in front of my fans when it was a tour for the two of you the idea behind that would be that it would be your shared fans I was curious you know if you felt like there was animosity or competition were there moments where it was just mutually supportive or was it more of a one-sided thing like this is these are my fans or can you walk me through that like what was that like having a relationship and you guys both creating together and separately in your own right I always felt like well because she made it obvious with her words and actions that they were her fans they were not mine and when we decided to do a tour together his husband and wife I thought wow she's really like looking at me like an equal and it it meant the world to me I didn't want to be bigger than her but the fact that it felt like it's 50 50. why I've never felt 50 50 with her before and then she was very adamant about doing Miranda on the husband wife tour and I didn't understand that why do you need to do Miranda when it's billed as us if you bring Miranda in it it's just a Miranda show with us that was one of the times that she did go to therapy with me and the therapist sided with her why would you not allow her why would you have a problem with her doing that and it it made me feel like I was being controlling and I didn't I didn't look at as like trying to control her I just thought if we're really doing 50 50 why would you whip out this massive character if I spoke up and said I don't see why you're pulling that out she just didn't understand and she thought you controlling How would how dare you this is what brought us here this is what got us this tour we've seen evidence of her you know making those types of claims to her fans I'm curious was that something that she said directly to you she might not have said the word but she alluded to it countless times there was one time where I was on my own tour and she was in Canada filming her show and she just avoided talking to me for days and we're married at this point there was one time I remember I was about to perform I had an hour before the show and I went back to my hotel room and I finally got her on the phone and all of this pain and like feelings of being disregarded kind of came to the surface and I really just kind of let it out on the phone was I yelling at her no but I was very passionate in the way I talked very upset and what she told me days later is uh I saw Eric which is her husband now uh right after I got off that phone call with you and I I told him oh well I just got yelled at by my husband for 15 minutes it was that something that you you felt was happening often that she would go to him and share details of your relationship I don't know if she thought I was blind but I saw it from the beginning when she cast him I remember all the other people that went through the cycle of that audition circuit that character was supposed to be not conventionally like a good looking guy and when she started you know wanting him I thought he's kind of kind of a good looking dude you want him to play this character that's supposed to be like the the male Miranda and I thought I can't say I can't say anything she's gonna think I'm jealous she's gonna think I'm controlling I did bring up that's odd that you're pushing for him when he's conventionally a good looking guy now the person Joshua was talking about is actor Eric stocklin uh somebody we've mentioned often in this series but haven't covered anywhere near as much as Colleen or most of her Inner Circle now Eric stocklin is an actor who during the early 2010s popped up in smaller roles in shows like The Vampire Diaries bones and Criminal Minds before he got his big break and a starring role on a Netflix show called haters back off what you might not know is that while she was working on this Show's first season she was married to Joshua David Evans two weeks before that season came out on October 14 2016. Colleen announced her divorce from Joshua and less than two years after that Colleen Ballinger got married again to her haters back off co-star Eric stocklin there were just a lot of times that I knew she was hanging out with him I knew that he had been over to her apartment in Canada or that she went over to his place and quote everyone was there ah this is hard to talk about uh there was a there was a time right before the divorce happened and it was um VidCon and she didn't stay at VidCon very long she at that point kind of thought I'm I'm bigger and better than this well I loved it but she left and went back to our our house that we had someone communicate and relayed to me hey while you're out at VidCon she's having a few people over to the house and I was like who and they said Eric Corey in a romantic interest and Rachel and her boyfriend at the time and I just thought it was weird and so I was supposed to spend the night that night near VidCon because it was a long drive something in my gut said no go back home so I finished the show I didn't tell her and I got in the car and I drove back she kept messaging me like are you in your hotel room where are you where are you and within the like last probably 15 minutes or so of the drive I came clean and I said I'm actually almost home and when I walk through those doors it reeked of alcohol and cigarettes and no one was there nobody was there and then I went upstairs and she was sitting on our bed playing her ukulele I could tell she was she had some drinks in her no big deal have a drink it's your house she smelled of smoke and I was like what's going on where is everybody oh they had to go they had to leave and I just thought just the red flags were popping off in my head like why why would you have everyone leave when you knew I was showing up unless you didn't want me to be around it but the final words I said to her to her face the the last thing I ever said to her to her face as I was leaving I turned to her and I I said when you're effing Eric in our bed I want you to think of me and I said it right to her face eyes locked and her response was it's not like that he has a girlfriend and then what was exposed very soon after was that they had started a relationship it sucks that that's the last thing I said to her that's like if you have not said anything to her she threatened me a few months later through text that if I continued to talk about her in any way shape or form is what she said if you mention me in any way I'm going to get lawyers on you and my response to that was her branded slogan all I said was spread happiness that wasn't the last thing I wrote her with a little sunflower because that's what she always used on September 1st 2023 Joshua and I hopped on Zoom for a few more questions I had for him namely I wanted to get his reaction to what happened in part three of my Colleen docu series but I also wanted to get him to elaborate further on a few topics that he brushed on during our main interview even though that was seven hours long there were things I wanted more context on so whenever you see this switch over to zoom that interview took place after the truth about John Silvestri came to light I was always uncomfortable with Eric and her relationship anytime I had an inkling do you have a thing for that person it only happened like three or four times but every single time I had an inkley it had so when you say it happened are you are you saying that she had cheated multiple times like with different people or in the first three months of us dating I had this weird feeling in my gut that we were exclusive we were saying I love you it was this Whirlwind romance I had this feeling in my gut that something wasn't right I didn't know what it was and I did a foul thing she walked out she was doing something she left the apartment and I pulled up the laptop that she was on and I read some Facebook private messages that she had been sending and it it broke my heart she I caught her sending back and forth messages to a guy that I had already brought up hey who is this guy and why is he saying this kind of stuff to you like I don't think that's appropriate and she would always be like oh no oh no he's gay or he's not into me what I found was that in those messages she was saying exactly to him what she had said to me when we were first starting to date and get to know each other she was using the same catchphrases the same uh you're the best in the west I bet sticks out to me because she used to say that about me and she said it to him and I confronted her about it the next day I was still upset and I remember her saying if this is how you're gonna be if you're not over this now then I can't be in a relationship with you period if you're still going to be upset and I I thought to myself but I'm upset because I caught you talking to another guy all lovey-dovey all sweet now you're upset with me for still being upset 24 hours later but in that moment it taught me if I speak up about something that I thought that I didn't think was right her response is then I'm Ill then I'm gone two months later swoop the same thing at with a different person no same person he would say I'm so sorry if I got you in trouble with your boyfriend I'm so sorry and she said please don't apologize do not apologize we can keep doing this as long as my boyfriend doesn't know about it I have no problem with this I should have known because she showed me who she was so early on it left a mark that never went away how did that make you feel through all of the years that you were together I don't think this now because I've worked with a therapist I thought it was my fault the whole time I thought I did something to deserve this here's this amazing person she has presented this amazing thing to me it's my fault I need to change how I view these things I need to change the biggest sound she gave me an ultimatum was she just said nonchalantly if you don't propose to me within a year uh this is I'm done and for me I was like I wish you didn't say that because I just in my own self got to that point I just found that and now you're giving me an ultimatum just feels icky feels gross throughout the course of your relationship uh do you feel like she would make posts or remarks publicly that were targeted at you I think she would post things knowing that I had verbally said that makes me uncomfortable hey I saw on your insta story like you're really flirting really heavy with your director for your next book show like it's there for everyone to see it's late and flirtation and then that would that would turn into me being controlling when I'm just sitting here going you're FL you you're not just like having fun you're flirting and chasing this man down the comments are saying that you're flirting she knew the things that didn't make me feel great and she would do them anyway and she's the wrong person she can do whatever she wants why do you think she would do those things that knowing that it made you uncomfortable I think maybe she resented me [Music] what would lead you to think she might have resented you she didn't act like she liked she she wasn't kind she didn't make me feel seen she didn't make me feel like I mattered I didn't feel why I was in a relationship with the majority at the time I felt like a shell we're driving crazy because people in the comments with notes which made me feel even more embarrassed and more small according to Joshua the last time he spoke with Colleen she threatened him with legal action if he ever spoke about her or their relationship he rarely directly spoke her name however Joshua did try to speak out a few times there was a common narrative that was kind of spread around you and Colleen at the time of the divorce um where people were saying that you just remained silent which isn't entirely true I have held my tongue for years two or three years I've held my tongue more than you know and it's killing me I'm just gonna tell the truth I want to tell you about my life and I want to tell you about what really happened and it might piss off a lot of people it might piss off the subscribers and in my piss off Colleen in my piss off people in my family so I'm curious because you haven't shared much about your relationship why now are you sharing this this is the very first time in six or seven years after it happened where I feel like if I were to say something I'm not going to be attacked by hundreds of thousands of teenagers now when Colleen and Joshua got divorced Joshua was almost immediately met with constant daily attacks in comments and in his DMS as well as on Gossip websites like gossip garden and gossip Bakery it's been rumored for years that Joshua in response to the constant harassment became obsessed with what people were saying about his divorce and began not so subtly trolling the gossip blogs for information there are some interesting allegations relating to Joshua's mindset from this time period that we discovered after the initial interview so I decided to ask him directly about it we have seen a relationship that you had of sorts with with a site called gossip garden and gossip Bakery these both ring a bell yeah okay yes they do there have been rumors for years that you were allegedly prowling these gossip sites uh trying to get information about your relationship or your divorce with Colleen there were rumors going around that I had done bad things or that I cheated on her and I was so upset by it that I would spend so much time searching where is this coming who's saying this I'd get sent links hey did you see this did you say did you see this is being said about you and I would hop on I'd sure as hell would go look and see what was going on and what they were saying still feeling like I don't have a voice I'm just watching hoping that someone is going to see between the lines and see that a lot of what's being said isn't true but yeah I spent a lot it was not good for my mental health because anytime I I'd get something about me I was fixated on it because I was getting so much hate from everywhere we've seen you know some tweets and things that you may have been speaking in code on Twitter I mean sure sure there was a time where they were like we think he's lurking we think he is is reading some of these posts uh Josh if you're reading this post a picture of X at the time uh especially because this is when I was drinking very heavily alone there was like two times that I literally did the thing that they asked me to do but if you were on that page you knew exactly what that oh gosh Josh is here he is watching there was also a rumor that you may have been posting to these sites posing as your aunt uh no I was not I would put money on the fact that it probably was my aunt have you ever talked to your aunt um nope I never spoke to her about it I have not had a conversation with any family member or friend about go to this site and say this type of thing that never happened there was a period within the first six months of everything happening uh it was chaos and people were saying that I cheated which I did not um or that I was I was not one of my friends at the time and I'm no longer close with this person was adamant you got to go in there you got to create names you gotta create whoever you want to be and go drop the truth because this narrative is going to continue it's going to continue and you won't have a way to fight against it and you know for a while I would sit there and and really think about it but then I thought there's no way I could get away with that it was something that had crossed my mind many many many many times but if I'm being really honest with you doesn't make me look good I wanted to create an account I wanted to especially like when I saw the evolution when there's someone like an ask me anything on Reddit that is has been verified as someone in my life and they have gone on to say things about me that I'm like that's not true and who are you you're you're not getting the facts right but they're accepting it as true yeah AMA sent me to a dark dark place because what they were saying wasn't true about me so now I don't have a voice and if I even tried to have a voice they'll be like you're just trying to catch up from other people that got there first [Music] it is interesting I don't want to make assumptions but you had some said something earlier where it sounded like you know when she said don't speak about me don't say my name all of those types of things did you feel that you for a period of time that there was a level of silencing that was being done to you in regards to being able to speak about your experience in that relationship I absolutely felt silenced and I felt like I didn't know specifically then that she was orchestrating things because what she presented online was not go after him but what she was saying to people in DMS was he's this he's that made in front of me critiquing things making claims about me that are not true things that never happen but anytime I did try to open up the amount of hate the passionate hate that I would get from the people online it was just never ending and even when I would stop talking about it or alluding to it and I would post a normal thing about nothing regarding that the comments would be full of it full of go and yourself you know you don't deserve to exist I know where your next show is uh I ended up hosting another end of VidCon party the next year and the amount of death threats I got before that event terrified me because at this point Christina Grimmie had been killed at a meet and greet at a venue that I had performed in she was not even like a personality type she's just a wonderful hearted singer that has so much to give and I had the thought of well if someone is innocent and to me is pure as her it happened to her well there's a lot of people that don't like me I have to take it seriously I can't just be like it's nothing they're just being dramatic I didn't believe that I was scared to go on I was scared I I had to tell my manager at the time and they gave me security I had never had security before and it was so daunting and weird to think the reason why I have security just to go from backstage to the stairs of the stage was because someone might try to do something and then that catapulted into my sister was getting those death threats my little sister I took it very seriously and I got angry I got so angry because I knew that Colleen was aware of it and I'm like she could say one thing and stop this I was gonna say she could have just one statement one tweet could go a long way to provide some security for you but that wouldn't serve the purpose for her she's not willing to step out and say don't do this to him she liked it again like that moment on the bus how dare I make her look bad in front of her fans it was that times a billion this wasn't a little moment on stage this is hey he might say that maybe I'm not the greatest person maybe I mistreat people maybe I'm very selfish so let me paint him to be far worse than he could ever say about me and I'll shut him up it worked I did shut up am I innocent no did we argue yeah did I say things that I regret absolutely there's also a part of like control that still exists in your own heart in your head where you feel like I still have to vouch for this person because what if we work it out what if things get okay I don't want to badmouth her because we could work through this I always thought we can work through it we made vows that's serious stuff there had been so many times throughout those seven years before we were married when we were dating that people would sit me down and be like what are you doing she strings you along she messes with your heart she breaks your heart and right when you heal and you're leaving she pulls you back in it's like you're a toy when someone else might have the ability to play with it she doesn't like that now if you've been watching my docs for a while you might be familiar with the concept of power dynamics which is how any kind of relationship be it interpersonal or professional is balanced by what each party can put into the relationship and we've talked about power dynamics as they relate to fans and creators before and how that power Dynamic is inherently lopsided it's very important to note that on virtually every level there was a power imbalance between Colleen Ballinger and Joshua David Evans specifically aside from the dynamic between a man and a woman she was more powerful in virtually every regard than he ever could have been something that I think has not been discussed very much is the Power dynamic in your relationship with Colleen and Colleen inherently just had that power imbalance because of her success and her celebrity and the notoriety the fandom at her disposal is that some thing that you have thought about I was aware of it from the very first moment that we were like a thing because early on it was very she made it known that if I had a different opinion of something that it was not as important as her opinion of something and I always kind of had to like succumb to what she wanted from just dating to I mean big life things where we were living whose job takes us somewhere my if I booked a really great job well she's not going but if she booked a job she was expecting me to go with her and not only that I was always made aware of it by comments it's always been a thing that has been shoved in my face my parents said during one of the times we broke up before we were engaged or anything and they compared her to a train and they said this is the Colleen train you either get on as a passenger or she's going to leave the station without you you're just on one of the cars and if you decide that it's not that you can't handle certain aspects of her it doesn't matter because she will leave the station without you and not look back I mean we have to speak to the foreshadowing of that right the toxic gossip train my father used that metaphor I hated hearing it because I knew everyone had saw it everyone saw it from all walks of life from all chapters and seasons of me everyone was aware that that Dynamic was off and that's why everyone was like I know who you are Josh you're strong-willed you do what you think is right you're an independent person but why are you neglecting all that part of yourself in this relationship why do you let this relationship change you in that way I was so in love with love I was so in love with the idea of marriage that I thought if I make this commitment and she's the person I'm choosing I'm gonna have to make it work and I'm gonna have to make compromises I'm and I did it to a fault from the very beginning there was a long time where I felt like I deserved all the pain I got because I didn't listen to them and I paid for it year after year after year while I was in it and especially while I was out of it there was something that struck me a little bit ago when you said that you were in love with love and as you've been talking about Colleen and your relationship I don't know if you are aware but you have had some distancing language you spoke about the wedding not our wedding and you talked about this person and that you're with not Colleen and even down to saying you were in love with love not I was in love with Colleen I was in love with her I don't I wonder if that's something that you are aware fully aware what kind of what what's going on in your head when you when you speak that way uh I guess I distance myself because I trained myself to always distance how I speak about it because anytime I said words names hour this it was you are not over it you're so all you do is all about her so I tried not to say her name you know I had rekindled my relationship with my now wife and I didn't want to be saying her name to me it felt like that's at least the bare minimum respect I can give is not just dropping my ex's name all the time you talked about what sounded like her kind of hanging the fandom over your head almost in a way of weaponizing the fandom in your one-on-one experience with her and we know from evidence that has come to light that she was weaponizing and trying to you know like the Cody Rants and the uh Adam trying to get people to dig up things about you to use the fans against you I knew she could always do it but I I didn't want to believe that she was doing that I just thought they they are having their own perceived truth of this the more and more that I started seeing comments like you or if you have a turn I'm like what why who would say that why would anyone say that I did that uh unless it was told to them then I'm then you know your brain goes a million miles an hour and I think well the only thing I think would have done that is someone from that side was saying that because it wasn't true it wasn't just these random fans coming up with an opinion themselves things are being fed to them I always had a problem because I thought if the roles were reversed if I after a year of marriage divorced her and then married someone that I worked with and then completely erased any notion of her never spoke of her ever again would the public be on my side the way that they are on her side the answer is no they would drag me through the mud honestly because they should in my opinion but in this situation it feels sexist and I can't say that guys can't say that it's sexy you can you can you know I'm afraid to say things like that and and I can understand that fear nothing good would come of it yeah I know that well maybe now it might be a little different I think it's I think it has changed you know the conversation around uh male victims existing has changed significantly I've done a lot of work around that around advocacy for male victims and I I think people are learning that victims are genderless they are there's no specific identity and so if you lived through as a man that's just as valid as anyone else so you are within your right to speak about that and I think that those types of conversations are really important I just felt like there was no hope and that my name was just going to be slandered forever it that's another thing that led to such a deep depression in my life no matter how right I thought I was or how misconstrued I thought things were it didn't matter my truth didn't matter what I felt didn't matter because I'm the guy and I can't say this because they'll just attack me more she's the angel and here I am a villain who just wanted a marriage to work because I fought so hard and because I was so hurt and devastated now I'm not only did I lose that marriage that relationship I lost that family I was very very close every single one of them I loved them my family's not close like that and I felt like I had a family and I lost all of them like that and I loved them I truly did Rachel I loved Rachel so much she was like one of my best friends and then I lost myself I lost it to me I had lost everything I lost my career I lost everything that I built I lost my passions I lost everything but if I say anything online that emotes that that shows that once again I'm a little opportunist who's trying to use that situation to gain sympathy and to gain views you said that you could have taken half and you chose not to can you tell me why we we didn't have a prenup because I said to her face I'm I will never take anything I'm not here to take and I kept my word I chose not to take half because if she didn't want me she didn't want them and that was clear so why would I want her to give me money I put a lot of years of my life into that person and that family and I'll never see that again and it's gone so I didn't take money because I didn't want her but you had mentioned to me privately your thoughts about the divorce video making that divorce video was traumatizing as she had just told me I'm making a video to announce this and I'm releasing it in a few days and I said can we wait because you just threw this big thing on me I didn't see it coming I don't want to make a video about this can we like just not say anything and like work on how we're gonna discuss this and she said that would interfere with her launch for her show and she did not want anything to take momentum away from her Netflix show and that she was making a video whether I liked it or not and that it was going to go out on this specific day and she started saying the things that she wanted me to say so did you feel that you felt then like your your hand was kind of forced in that I was back into a corner she knew that she had the power she knew that she had the masks behind her and she knew that she could say anything that she wanted to say I felt so used cast aside it's like why did I not see it coming this is the person she's always been and I have just forced myself to believe that she was better than that thank you throughout the time I've spent researching this world there is one thing that I've discovered that I never expected Colleen Ballinger has always had her finger on the pulse of her fandom to an almost troubling degree now due to her participation in group chats she is just as aware of what her fans are going through as they were aware of what she was going through according to her she treated her fans as close friends whether it was appropriate or not and would use them for information on what was being said about her or her friends or her enemies do you think that she is watching everything that's been happening right now do you think she tunes into the coverage what do you think is going through her head right now as much anger as I feel towards her I know what she's feeling even now I don't wish that on her because I know that when we were together for seven years that the worst thing that could happen to her is if she lost her fans I can't imagine the depths of what she's feeling and I know it's not good I do worry so I feel like I was saying this I worry about her I don't want she's got kids she's got babies and I don't wish paying on her and I know she's feeling it I know she feels like everything that she ever had crashed this is coming from a guy that it already happened to me I lost everything I fell in love with an image that she gave me and I held on to that image even though all the cracks started within a month I held on to the image and I fought for the image but to like think of her now there is no image that she can put on she can't hide anything people see now Adam even said you know the mask slipped I think it's true and I think she never thought it would happen either I hope that there's someone in her life that she'll listen to but to be honest I don't think she has those people in her life at this point in my conversation with Joshua a few things became clear now of course there was the distancing language and all the allegations of mistreatment but he also would often say things that almost sounded protective of Colleen and in listening to all of this there was one question that I just I couldn't shake from my mind you said that there was an image of her that you loved yeah did you ever love her yeah I did I fought for the image because I I did see the good stuff I did see the positive things about her she wasn't always fully this and the more Fame that happened and the higher she Rose to the top the more she leaned into I don't have to change a damn thing about myself do you think the the way she is being characterized now do you think that that's accurate I feel bad answering this question because I don't want it to come off like I'm on here to like Basher and drag her she's got enough of that happening without me needing to chime in if I'm being honest with myself and honest with you and anyone watching this it I think this is the truest depiction of her that has ever been seen publicly this is the most authentic version of her that is ever been publicized what I'm seeing like especially in that video the ukulele video that's a version of her that I know I know that person I lived with that person I saw those eyes I think everyone has the ability to change look inward do the hard work I just don't think she has ever stepped up to the plate to do that I'm gonna be completely honest this next section brings someone into the situation I never expected to be named in this interview you had mentioned before about the divorce video was that a 10 steps ahead moment I said it it was at least three steps ahead maybe not ten um the divorce happened very suddenly things were bad I knew things were off and we were arguing all the time she didn't ever want to talk to me she never want to like talk through it because she was either out of town and wouldn't talk to me out of town or when she was she was always busy busy busy busy I was shown some things when I was at playlist in Washington DC in 2016 receipts proof of things she was doing can you tell me what you're referring to Part of Me still wants part of me still wants to protect her because what she was doing was awful at the very least can you tell me what it has to do with this specific one was what she was saying about me behind the scenes on our honeymoon to another massive YouTuber she basically said I told Josh some things and he wrecked our hotel room she told this to another large very large YouTuber yes okay are you can I ask who that was why not ashamed awesome okay we went on our honeymoon and we decided while we were in Hawaii let's go to the beach with no cameras and let's say new vowels that are just for us no one else will hear them see them experience them and it was one of the most beautiful moments at the time in my life to know that within 24 hours of us saying our vows all over again she's telling one of the biggest YouTubers at the time that she said some stuff to me I didn't like it and broke things when we didn't have a single fight on that trip this is what she told Shane Dawson yes what actually happened none of that were you told something and then you got emotional or no there was not there was no there was no fight there was no argument it was actually a really Pleasant honeymoon experience we didn't have any altercations we didn't have any anything I was at playlist I had just had dinner with her family she wasn't there she was off doing some other thing and then Steve Green was there with his now wife Nikki and they waved me over and I said okay cool we were just talking and laughing and just having a good time away from screaming teenagers and then Nikki stopped and said yeah I can't I can't hold this in anymore and he Steve was giving her a look like don't what no no no no don't do this and she looked at me and I'm paraphrasing here she said I'm supposed to hate you hmm but after spending just a few minutes with you I don't and I'm confused because the things that I've been shown about you don't add up to the person I'm talking to and the person that Steve says you are she pulled out her phone or it might have been his phone but it was one of their phones and they slid it across the table and like what's this and she just said read it and it was about me and I was I was like what it what is this and they said it's it's a screenshot of a text message between Colleen and Shane Dawson and I looked at the date and I'm like that's during our stirring our honeymoon she she texted that during her honeymoon that I abused her that I went ballistic we didn't even have a fight we didn't have an argument she's I'm not the only one that has this this text has been passed around who was passing it around was it Shane Shane sent it not I don't think Colleen Did I mean that's me assuming but but you know that Colleen text this to shame I saw both of their screenshots started getting shared with other every every YouTuber I could think of at that time that they were they I'm like oh so they all sit here and think that I went crazy on a honeymoon when nothing happened and in that moment that's when it all dawned on me why in the world did you think that you were safe when she did that kind of thing about everybody else everybody else she had to say that was a common thing that she would all the time it's like a sport for her she's a pro athlete when it comes to that and we wrapped up the conversation and like we hugged and I excused myself to the hotel room my hotel room just me and I sat there and like I remember looking at my phone and it was a picture of us from our honeymoon and it went dark and it just fell and thudded on the floor and I sat there the sun had pretty much gone down I sat there facing a wall with a phone on the ground just going what it what have I got myself into why do you think that she would send this message to Shane this is something I've never figured out because when I got wind of that then I started seeing more stuff and that wasn't the only thing she she would make fun of me dog on me say I was embarrassing to her just as a reminder I've reached out to Colleen Ballinger for comment on all of this and she has not returned comment this is genuinely something that I'd like to hear her point of view on and I am fully acknowledging that what we just heard is Joshua's perspective on the matter I had a show with Julian's solomita and Arnold Taylor and we we had a little parody group called The Shadows the Shadows yes and it was a joke it was supposed to be a joke it's like we're aware of who we are we're aware we're in the shadow so let's make a whole thing of it tons of YouTubers went on like a big party bus I found out that later she was talking so negatively and just mean about me and how embarrassing that was and that she had warned me not to do a show like that when you said that there was a big party bus and these YouTubers and everything do you remember what show that was that was the opening show of Shadow tour we only did two shows the Irvine show then yeah okay California so while she's with you they're seemingly to support you right and you're saying that she was basically talking about you yeah to these YouTubers who are all there to also watch the show and she might try to twist it and say she was just poking fun that's a lot of how she would do things like I'd call her out on certain things she'd be like you're taking it so seriously what would that what would can you give me an example of like what she would call poking fun that you felt was maybe disrespectful or I don't I don't say she'd make fun of me but she would just be little things that I would ask for as if like the audacity are you serious and I'd feel so small I sure feel like it she sure makes me feel that way every time she's making fun of me she's sending things and making fun of me and then that came out too about like them saying I plagiarized a song on my album that I never plagiarized I never did but the fact that she made it a whole joke her and Johnny made a whole joke of it and then she added that song into her show and like made it like a thing I think it's just a normal thing that she does first thank you for sharing that and I think that I've never said any of that stuff so I want you to know like I'm I'm scared that I just said that I'm not gonna tell you to edit things out but I'm scared I'm scared because I've seen what she can do behind the scenes and how that affected my life every aspect of my life see I go back and forth from like wanting her to be okay to also fearing her I'm afraid of her I'm afraid of what she'll nitpick about this fear that's one of the most common emotions I've heard throughout covering this story it's a word Adam McIntyre has brought up in regards to Simply being believed it's something Becky and Oliver and Alex have all expressed to me many members of the clean fandom who have spoken to me off the Record have expressed it Bella who anonymously spoke against John Silvestri in part three and has recently come forward publicly on Twitter also has expressed fear throughout this and now here we have Joshua David Evans and one thing all of those people have in common is being afraid and that fear directly relates back to the power of Colleen Ballinger she'll say I'm lying she'll say it's not true and somehow that'll get around to the certain type of people that will then come after me again so I'm I want to be honest with you and answer your questions but I also want to make a point that I'm a freaking terrified that I just said that and stuff do you feel like you might in some way still be under her spell so to speak oh I'm not under her spell but I do feel like I am still within the bounds of her control that spell wore off and I now absolutely see what role die played in it like it also says a lot about who I am as a person to welcome that into my life year after year after year where if anyone came to me and said I'm dealing with this in my relationship what should I do my advice would have always been get the hell out what are you doing but I didn't give myself I didn't do that for myself so no I'm not under a spell but I do still to this day feel like she has control of the narrative she has control of how of what happens to me and I really don't know how to get away from it other than what I've done with my life now which is peace out and get away from having other people be a part of my life in that way I'm very closed off I don't trust people I never used to be that guy I was always the almost like the golden retriever in the room it's always like so everything's good cool I know that you beat me yesterday but I'm gonna come love on me today not saying that she beat on me I mean there were times that she definitely smacked me around but not not like we were fighting and she smacked me I'm not saying that well I'm gonna shift it I mean you know I'm gonna ask was she physically we would never get into an altercation where she would smack me or anything like that but playfully she would roughhouse with me it was more consistent than I wanted to believe because people were like you know people screenshot and like make compilation videos and they're like look at all the times that she's done this on the honeymoon she sprayed sunscreen in his eyes and look at this where she smacked his chest really hard or look at this where it's very known in our relationship that I didn't want her like touching my butt all the time especially out in public I'm insecure I was always uncomfortable having any attention put near there and she would always try to like mess with him back there and that's playful but she also knew that it made me really uncomfortable did you ever express to her it made you uncomfortable trust me oh yeah about like the butt thing sure yeah she would still continue there's even a Blog where she does it and then you can see that I'm not happy and I walk away and she's still filming and then she says he doesn't like it when I do that but I'm being a brat and I keep doing it so she acknowledges you know it doesn't matter you being a man that's not a factor if you set a boundary about where someone can touch your body or how they can be in your personal space I can see you just you crossed everything is crossed on your body I just don't want it I don't I think she's got so much on her plate I don't want it to I don't want to add another thing let me stop you for a second when you say that it's not your responsibility to feel like you're adding something to someone else's plate when you're telling your story so if this is your story if this is your truth you are a whole human being just like she's a whole human being we all are and if these are things that you have felt and that you haven't expressed or you haven't felt like you were able to you are entitled to I never looked at it like it was some problem because we had far deeper problems than that I think maybe if we didn't have those other problems I would be like why do you smack me all the time but I never viewed it that way but if I think about my relationship my wonderful amazing marriage that I'm in now we don't do that you know when I think of it that way then it's like oh well you don't have to do that yeah you don't have to be a part of that there are normal relationships where you have consent and you respect each other and you know what's too far and what's just playing and and that Dynamic does not exist in my marriage with Pamela I want to take a moment to acknowledge someone who is deeply affected by this story but is often left out when it comes to discussing who this all impacts and that person is Pamela Pamela is Joshua's current wife they've known each other for decades and have been married since 2018 and it is Pamela who witnessed and stood by Joshua during some of the darkest moments in his life by her own words it was Pamela who stepped in to be a source of strength for their family Pamela who would put her hand on his chest while he slept day in and day out to make sure he was breathing and Pamela who stood by him when he chose to face his participation in this story like Joshua before Pamela has also been relegated to the shadows in conversations about her more famous spouse often referred to as just The other woman or the new wife it's not uncommon to see hurtful comments made about her whenever Joshua would speak up with parts of the fandom putting words in Pamela's mouth because she has never spoken out publicly that is until today Pamela and I spoke on the phone for about an hour she is her own person who I believe is often disregarded in this story and has asked to speak with me in her search for peace now I'm going to be real it was a very emotional call Pamela shared a lot of Tears a lot of concerns but most of all compassion through all of the fear and pain that Pamela has experienced over the years I was taken aback by the profound level of empathy that she had for everyone involved and her desire for healing and a couple of days after our call Pamela decided that she wanted to share a statement with me which I would like to read in full for all of you now quote at the core of my heart is a desire for people to have peace and for everyone to live from a place of humanity and kindness you never really know what a person is going through and the profound effects your words and actions can have on them and their lives and the people close to them there are so many things I could say and have wanted to say throughout the years and even recently I have chosen to keep things close and focus on taking care of and protect our family our little safe bubble and our mental health I love Joshua with all of my heart and I am so grateful for and admire how hard he has worked to overcome some very heavy and dark times choosing not only to live but also to strive for peace and goodness all while continuing to learn and grow in the midst of it all my hope and wish for my husband myself our family and everyone involved is for peace healing and to be able to close this chapter move forward and be good to one another regardless of what your opinion might be on the people directly involved in this story I think it's important we always try to remember that these stories have far-reaching effects that impact more than just the central people involved and that just because Pamela has been quiet Until Now does not mean she's not affected Pamela is deserving of a safe space and healing just like all of the others who have been hurt and I hope that we can all extend her the same compassion as she is so Pamela I just wanted to thank you for sharing your words with us even when you did not have have to I know that this has been a very stressful time for you and I just hope that everyone shows her the kindness that she deserves and now the moment that many people have been waiting for the questions that we asked Joshua about Colleen's alleged toilet cleaner Corey DeSoto because in case you didn't know Colleen Ballinger's best friend in the world is a man who is also her assistant somebody she has called her soul mate who has lived with Colleen at her house over the course of two marriages now now Corey has his own allegations which are a story for another day but I was curious about what life for Joshua was like with Colleen's real number one Corey DeSoto what was life like with Corey DeSoto it was hard because I never felt like I had a marriage or a relationship I felt like I was a part of something plus him and and I was there too everywhere I look there he is I wake up in the morning there he is I go to bed at night he's going into his room she had made a post on Instagram and she said that you know this is my soul mate and I remember looking at that and being like well I would never say that about anybody other than my person do you think that was directed at you in any way or I think she she always knew what she was doing and then she'd play this kind of like naive what that made you upset oh I would never think that and it's like but you know you know the word soulmate is a pretty big word to say to somebody you just got married and your soulmate is Corey De Soto and now for the part of the interview where I hold true to my word that in exchange for hearing him out on his painful experiences I would make Joshua hear me out on all the things that he has verifiably done wrong this is the part where I asked Joshua directly to take accountability for his actions I have seen some comments saying how it is problematic to platform someone who admits to doing bad things why why is that problematic the thing is I think it would be problematic to ignore the people that the story directly affects and each of them have expressed publicly or privately that they want to hear directly from the people who failed them and that they want them to take accountability for whatever reason Joshua is the only one who is even attempting to do this right now he has said that doing this on his platform would be detrimental to his mental health so I have to ask them why not here why not now I've sat for nearly 24 solid hours worth of interviews with Adam Joshua John Becky Oliver Alex sof Bella and others and it has been insightful and also I mean it's been exhausting this has been a long process for a lot of people but this this isn't for me this is for every person affected in this story who deserves to hear it straight these people failed them and this is what accountability could look like if we're open to it so you be the judge okay so this isn't going to be fun you know my team and I have been obviously digging into all of the everything about this story and uh the Miranda Sings character the content what you have been involved in you did say something to me off camera that was interesting to me in regards to talking about these more difficult topics where we're going to talk about accountability and you had said that it's this is kind of the easiest thing for you to talk about and I'm curious why why what about this that we're going to get into is easier in your opinion I didn't know if I was going to talk about this but the way you phrase the question I'm just trying to be as transparent as I can and the one thing popped in my head I was subtle for a very long time after all this happened to the point where I had a handwritten will in my pocket for Pamela my wife I was very much at peace with the idea that's a weird way to say it that if I go I go the reason why I say that is because when you're there and you have given up everything that comes along with that when you decide no I'm gonna get up I'm going to choose something else when you truly make that choice you also have to make the choice of if I'm going to do this I'm going to face myself so if I'm gonna face my demons I have to face all of my demons not just the ones I want to deal with that feel easy to deal with I've done a lot of hard work on myself and I'm very proud of that and it took me years of work of becoming sober and dealing with any lies that I would perpetuate myself and isms I had Within Myself excuses I would make I had to face each one one by one and before I decided to live I wasn't going to do that I wasn't ready to do that I didn't want to do that I wanted out I just wanted out I was tortured when I was awake I was tortured when I was asleep I Had No Escape of the kind of thoughts that were always in my head after all of this happened so there are things that I am responsible for and did took part in that I needed to say to myself you did that you could have stopped it you could have not done it you could have said no you could have just walked away and you didn't so if you're going to continue on let's be the best version that you can be and the only way that happens is if I do the work to do it so when I say it's easy for me to talk about I don't mean like it's it's nothing and it holds no weight it's more that I've been through this thought process I have exposed the worst parts of myself to the people I care about the most I've already gone through the guilt and facing it in in pointing fingers at myself every single day and hating myself to my core so if we need to talk about things let's talk about them I think that there are a lot of people could say thousands hundreds of thousands who think that this is a long time coming sure very briefly before I do you said one thing that I would like to ask you about you said that you were tortured was that in reference to what you went through with Colleen yeah you know I'll talk about this I saved myself for marriage and I gave it to her so this wasn't just hey this public relationship that was benefiting you crash and burned it was your whole life's goal and standards you set for yourself and Gifts you thought you were saving meant nothing meant absolutely nothing you're a joke I remember right when it happened and I took a month off from YouTube I went home to Georgia to be surrounded by family the first place I walked into it's like an Applebee's I sat down and TVs were playing I look up and my face is on the screen and I felt so embarrassed I felt so exposed I had been used to people recognizing me but now it's different and so I can't go and have a meal without seeing it aren't you now the ex-husband aren't you that guy what really happened when my eyes were open I was tortured I couldn't go anywhere online without being told every day that I'm nothing that I did deserve it everyone was just attacking me and then when I would try to sleep I would shut my eyes and it felt like a thousand channels were going off in my mind and every single channel was a channel designed to make me hate myself more and I just felt no release I felt no way of escaping any of it and that's when drinking became a whole different thing for me it became the only thing that chilled my mind out enough and it was okay in manageable at first but then it took over and it it became the thing that I needed I needed that more than I needed anything else there was just no there was no out for me that's why eventually I started looking at alcohol I was like cool if you take me out at this point I'm okay with it so yes I felt tortured I was absolutely tortured well I I would like to revisit that uh what you just shared a little bit later and I appreciate you being open about that experience um being able to discuss is not an easy thing to share um and I know that personally how difficult that is and what a dark place that is and it is a pit of Hell that I would wish on no one so yeah I appreciate you opening up about that I think that's it takes a lot for if someone hasn't experienced that Darkness it it can be a little hard to understand just how severe those emotions are but I appreciate you sharing that um but in the same breath as you said yeah let's get to the nitty-gritty now much of Joshua's struggles with mental health and alcoholism is well documented after his divorce with Colleen Ballinger he's made content dealing with it he's tweeted about it and if you're familiar with the content in part three of my docu-series you know that it was sadly weaponized against him by people like Jonathan Silvestri it's disgusting and should never happen regardless of the circumstances but putting all of that aside so to speak even though everything is ultimately intertwined it's time for accountability of Josh's own behavior over the years foreign just as you had experienced pain there are things that you have done that has contributed to pain in others it is important that we talk about this um I know that Miranda Sings content the content was catered for 13 to 21 year olds you had said that in an interview clip that we found and the fact of the matter is the content was inappropriate as it evolved almost top to bottom that was just seemed like the the constant underbelly to that content for reasons that even I'm still trying to understand why that would be the approach so I am curious and I think a lot of people would like to know what Drew you to that content and how did you get to a place where you felt that it was appropriate for you to participate when I discovered her before we had ever spoken she probably had two or three videos out period that was it they were not what they are now and I was very intrigued with what kind of mind would create this I was more intrigued with her than the character I wanted to know her because those original shows that she would do were for the audience was older the audience was college and up and the Broadway scene that's where she started and it was it was definitely like we were the youngest ones in the room for a lot of it there's a lot of people in my program who were just just had the characteristics of Miranda the characters which are what it's cocky cocky and just they talk like this and just like they just thought they were so good and they would record themselves singing songs and post it online for everyone to see and no bad comments they only wanted good feedback but then slowly it shifted because her content started getting passed around to not just the theater Community it started becoming more mainstream I would chime in every now and then at the beginning and say you sure you want to do that are you sure that's okay you sure that's the kind of thing you want to post let me let me ask you though let me jump in because if you say you know you were periodically let's say jumping in kind of uh chiming in are you sure you want to do this was that more so from the perspective of is this a good PR move is very much kind of me going is this where you want to take it but then I also felt like I can't speak up because of course I'm the one with the prop I'm the one with an issue with it it doesn't ever go well when I speak out against certain things and choices and so I became very complicit very complicit it got worse and worse and worse the uncle jokes kept happening I kept going to shows as just her partner not even in the show and I would see the audience change and get younger and younger and younger and when you're in it and you're living in it every day and she's filming every day around you I'm not saying this is okay but you become numb to it in a way and she asked me to be involved in certain videos and I said yes and I'll be honest with you the reason I said yes was because I knew if I appeared in videos it would help me too it would expose me to a bigger audience which means maybe I can do YouTube full-time so if you're saying that you knew okay this is getting bad this has escalated uh beyond anything that you ever thought it would uh and you're saying I would never do something like that but then you do and you start to participate right and then you say you participated in this you start making those bad things that I would never do what I'm hearing is that you were willing to create this inappropriate content for views I was willing to participate in things that are inappropriate because it was going to benefit me it's going to benefit me professionally and financially did it occur to you at the time when you're like I would never do that but now I'm doing it because I'm getting the views did you have pause and think holy this is also really awful I did have a lot of pause and I was a coward and I gave up trying to interject and then I fully embraced it for myself was I writing the content no was I suggesting the content no was I in it participating adding to it absolutely yes because again at the time you're surrounded with it it is unfortunately very normalized things that you think you will never do or be a part of becomes very normal when everyone's cheering everyone's clapping everyone's laughing the views are getting bigger the shows are getting bigger and these jokes are killing it you become desensitized to a point where like well maybe it's not that bad but when you get out of it when you're not in that Dynamic anymore when I removed while when I was removed I didn't remove myself do you think you would have removed yourself at some point I needed to do that content absolutely and and I'm I'm curious because you know we're talking kind of there's these parallels right you know you're participating in the content but you were also participating just on a No cameras around life happening and you were in these tiny chats and uh the group chats you know running around town I'm not sure if you saw but Adam just did a live stream today of a video that uh was sent to him and it's on a Fan's Channel they had done a vlog video with you and Colleen and London and it looks to be in Europe and they you and Colleen are hanging out with these two in a hotel room for quite a period of time and you're at a restaurant together but you were alone in a hotel room with them and then they looked like they were maybe backstage or they were attending a show that uh happened in that same trip and you know in certain degrees I hear what you're saying when you're talking about okay things kind of spiraled they escalated with the content and but the content has a stop and a start you know start and a stop button when you're recording and you go through the edit process you put it out there so that's one area that's problematic you know at best but then when we look at you're actually physically living life taking the photos and the video that we saw you know you're sitting on the couch kind of squeezed up next who quite literally says uh this is uncomfortable or this is awkward you can hopefully understand why there's so much confusion and hurt and anger and question about not just how do you get to a place where you're willing to make this content for views and to exploit for clicks and likes and sponsors and all of that but also carry it into real life how do you go from I would never do that to now I'm doing that in content to oh now I'm squeezing up next on a sofa who says this is uncomfortable uh first I'll say none of it's right none of it's okay I remember early on in those stages she had a tight click an original click called the cookies I believe they were called she would have these tiny chat conversations there'd be plenty of times that I'd be like oh cool I'll hop in and I'd hop in it felt innocent at the time and then it just kept progressing I normalized it in my head and I said well this is not I didn't start this I'm just in the background and I made excuses not again not that it's okay but it didn't feel like the topics were inappropriate even though the situation was inappropriate I remember Colleen saying they're going to meet us at this place we're going to have uh it's a chicken place how did you know to have this meeting even scheduled they were part of the original fan group the cookies I believe and if I'm not saying the right name of the group it was that original original yeah when she had shows in Europe they made plans to meet up I didn't make that plan I was there with her and absolutely participated I absolutely never said you shouldn't do this uh I again in my mind had normalized that this was okay because it's out in public I know you were you were in a hotel room no rice yeah no right I mean I you know I do have to kind of interject a little bit though because I think it's a little more than it wasn't weird I think it was extremely weird and very concerning and how do you go from like oh I've got these fans that I'm getting this attention from and I'm getting the clicks and likes and this feels so good to let's meet up with them to let's go to our hotel room how how does that happen and still have the rationale of thinking oh this is no big deal I guess because none of it's right I'm not saying it's right if it was an awkward picture taken and I thought it was funny it's not funny it's wrong what I remember from that time was we're gonna go and meet them and have lunch and that was all that was told to me then in the middle of who was telling you this Colleen yeah okay and then that progressed to hey do you guys just want to uh come back to the the hotel or it wasn't a hotel it's a flat is there much of a difference probably not um in me not saying Queen we can't have them come in here we can't do that you have to tell them to go I didn't say that I didn't do that looking back on it I would say what the hell were you doing there were a lot of times that I should have just put my foot down and said no but I again pushed that all down and normalized it for myself and made decisions that when I look back on them I am appalled at things that I didn't stand up to and didn't choose to see a bigger picture there there are things that are far more important that I just did not look at in a in the way that I should have been I regret those choices [Music] you mentioned the tiny chats in in my interview with Johnny he mentioned that you and Colleen and I believe maybe even Corey would spend four to five days a week two to three hours a day in these tiny chats I would not put myself in the same grouping as the amount of times he's saying they were doing tiny chats with or without us being a part of it they meaning they being that little crew of fans okay it was very known that a group of them would hop on and do this a lot and they would tweet to us all the time hop on we're chatting we're talking about you hop on are you gonna you would be so cool if you hopped on for five minutes it was just constant so I always knew when they were on because they would let me know that they were on the amount of times I was a part of it compared to how Colleen was because Colleen was the initial initially the first one to be involved in that it's a vast ratio yes I was in it absolutely but was I doing it as consistently as I saw her doing it no well how often were you doing it when I look back on that time I would say I participated in five to ten amounts five to ten times like in total in total the whole yeah it was not a I'm hopping on every day with them I knew they were on every day and if it's you're saying five to ten times for how long for a span of like a year that I knew they were doing it it's a weird place to be in at the time it was like the right thing to do is to interact with those people to encourage them to watch more of your stuff hope that they would share it with their friends and that you would slowly build a fan base meet and greets were always huge giveaways were always huge one of the things that Johnny had brought to my attention uh was and he said this I believe publicly as well that there was an instance of you turning off your camera and that you had changed your name to Johnny and then kind of appeared as a surprise towards the end of the chat what's the story there this was during the time where every night I was getting we're on chat we're on chat I think and they would say I think Josh is in the chat he's in the chat I wasn't on the chat and it was just constant every day when when the when I hear oh it happened every night it did but not with me in it it got to be a thing where is Josh in the chat or is Josh not in a chat I can't tell this person sounds like Josh and I made a terrible mistake that I look back on and I think is creepy as hell that I did it I thought I'm gonna go on but I'm not going to say I'm on because I want to see what they'd say I want to see what they say when they don't think I'm there light-hearted not like oh I'm going to catch him if I add to the chat but I don't say it's me what are they going to say and I made the stupid decision of eluding that I was Johnny and then eventually was like uh it's not Johnny it's me got you and at the time you say alluding did you specifically change your name to say Johnny I don't remember but I absolutely know that I made it seem like it was him but not in a way of like giving personal details about him or saying like opinions but you understand how it it comes across though right where people you know hear that you were at least in this instance maybe there were other times that you did this where you're essentially eavesdropping in a chat it's weird and it's gross and I mean I think a lot of people would say it's beyond weird even to to just trying to understand why why that's something that you would want to do with your time without them knowing sure um a lot of that is absolutely true what you're saying it didn't feel like that at the time because I think that the the challenge that people have even if they want to wrap their brains around like you know just the tiny chats of it all but even you saying that these are people that I knew that I interacted with retweets you know the chats all you know you're having all of these interactions you know I hear what you're saying when you're talking about there was an era of YouTube and I don't know maybe if it's still something that happens now but where creators were interacting with fans and that was what you do and the surprise meetups and all that kind of thing but there's a lot of lines that are being crossed there yeah absolutely in retrospect that makes perfect sense to me I I wouldn't disagree with anything you're saying and I I hate saying it like this but it was so it's just it was so normalized and I'm not saying normalized is okay I'm saying that as this kind of slowly took off and YouTube was becoming bigger and bigger as a thing that people could do for a living you start to interact with anyone that it interacts with your stuff and you just think this is how you do it you interact you build your fan base they get to know you you get to know them I was never seeking it out originally I was never like oh y'all come over here and let's talk let's have a private thing it was hey this is happening Josh come over here Josh are you are you online Josh if you're online hop in the chat for a few minutes I just got back from running errands sure I can hop on I'm on my laptop anyway doing probably editing something or doing something else sure I'll hop on but again 39 year old me now would not do that I would certainly hope not after all of everything that's happened we I just mean like regardless of YouTube and exposure and what people are saying just me as a human being I would not choose to do those things and I wish I could have said that back then you know it was wrong now since I conducted this interview with Joshua the lovely Folks at the Colleen Ballinger snark subreddit and specifically users Jen cat have actually provided me with not only video evidence of Joshua changing his name to Johnny but of Joshua actually explaining that he and Colleen would watch fans with their cameras off it's a very kind of cringe-inducing clip so we hopped on a call with him to have him explain all of this a little further there have been some things that have come out on the Colleen Ballinger snark subreddit and there was a clip that was submitted to us pretty recently I do think it's important in this whole story to be as open as possible as you have been I understand it I know it's not easy this topic hasn't been easy for quite some time so and anything that I might have done I don't want to sugarcoat it and I don't want to sidestep it we have a clip that I would like you to take a look at okay sometimes when we're bored we go on to Tiny chat and watch uh our friends chatting with each other without them knowing that we're watching them we're basically watching you guys right now what is this what are you guys doing right now I feel like I should not be watching this what is this don't put insync and back straight in the same sentence tiny chatting with people online does that make me weird maybe I'm no weirder than these guys yeah can you kind of tell me the circumstances then of what you remember around that or if this was something that was common uh this was very similar to the other situation where every single time they were on a chat they would tweet to us we're on this chat we're talking about you uh come join us just for a sec come join us come say hey come say hey and then people would hop on and use weird names to try to be like do you know who this is because they would last it on their public Twitter every now and then we would click on those links and see all right what are they saying and that's really all that it was looking at it now because that was clearly I believe 2014 so it's almost 10 years ago like even hearing myself answer my own question well I didn't answer my own question I'm answering my own question now isn't that weird I feel like I should be watching this uh that's because it is weird and I should not be watching that it was just another situation of you build this fan Sport and you connect with them they tell their friends their friends tell friends and then you have a bigger bait instead of people watching uh and that was the the base of people that were always together always tweeting together always doing tiny chats together consistently asking are you on are you on you should come on we're talking about this not that and so so I went on as Johnny can you tell me why you why you chose Johnny's it was Johnny because I knew he was uh in there all the time I knew that that was he was a presence within them because I would see all the tweets and the request to hop on the chat um I mean it sounds so weird and because it is weird if if I pretend I'm Johnny then they'll say the truth they'll say whatever they actually think about my content or you know what I posted and I was curious like do they actually like me or do they like that I'm associated with someone and that was my mentality that's why I would hop in every now and then just to see what they were saying can you tell me like how long you would watch for um again it'd be sporadic to be like one time I hopped on and it was for 10 minutes the next time I hopped on was a week and a half later that was like a quick five minute and then they spoke to me like John it was weird shouldn't have done it's creepy beat thinking about it was this did you do this alone or were you with Colleen what was that present for a couple of them and I even used that for Content I used that one to be like hey uh I'm gonna put you in my Vlog all of the little justifications that I made in my head then were very much of this is what you do you're in this element you're a YouTuber this is how you this is how you connect and I made every every excuse I could to normalize things and I would not have done if YouTube wasn't something I was pursuing for the most part they were always like we know it's you we know it's you uh it was all very service level fun talking about the blog talking about content it's weird if you told me that scenario just removed me and put some other grown man in there I would be like hell no I don't care that you asked him a thousand times to hop on why is he doing that in that time of my life I was desperately trying to build and create a a Channel I didn't do it all the time but it was definitely part of it and I severely wish I did not do those things thank you but I wanted to touch on a few pieces of content that we had been looking at aside from that that Vlog there is the the honeymoon Vlog the two of you are very much insinuating that she has her hand down your pants while you're vlogging and that is something that you filmed and then edited and shows uploaded chose the thumbnail did all of that absolutely uh there's also the Miranda Sings kissing tutorial what were you thinking in that moment when you're filming this and laughing about it and then editing it and then uploading it and then leaving it up there and then enjoying the comments and the the ad revenue and all those types of things I remember that moment that it that she started to do that and I was vlogging I could have stopped and I could have been like all right I'm not feeling this but in my mind I thought this is just our Dynamic we're being silly I really thought to myself what I'm trying to get I'm I want an audience that are not kids and my algorithm shows me that it's not it's not as young as hers so I kept making again excuses in my head because I mean you do know that your audience was coming from Colleen and from Miranda sings I would imagine you were aware of that so I know you know you're saying that the audience skewed I said I wanted it I wanted I wanted it okay more of that yeah not that it was just that I want to make that I mean that's what the words I'm giving you okay yeah is that that's where I wanted it to hit and so I was a little more bold in some of my decisions thinking I'm trying to cater to college people and people in their 20s people that are closer to my age and so I'm like it's okay if I push it because that's what I'm gearing it towards while also knowing that a massive chunk were not that age I clearly regretted it the next day because in the very next Vlog I tried to squash it and say it's not a big deal it wasn't this it wasn't that yet I still kept it up and still benefited on the ad revenue of it there were a lot of decisions that I made that were very close to that very similar to that well because you say clearly you regretted it so then you made another you know something addressing it of sorts but you can see that it would be hard for people to believe that you clearly regretted it if you left it up sure and monetized it right because I was selfish I wanted to gain money so would that be implying that you didn't actually regret it I guess I didn't regret enough to change it but I did regret enough that I was like let me clear the air that it wasn't what I implied that it was I knew that that was going to be a clickable thing and I chose to do it but it wasn't big enough in my head in my moral fiber to say just take that down because I also was dead set on making a video every single day for a year that was my promise I'm like I can't take down one I've never missed a day I'm not going to take it down it was me me me this is going to affect me it all has to do with I wanted the attention that it was giving me I absolutely did when you say you wanted the attention you know my first thought then is that you enjoyed the attention from content heavily Laden windows I mean that is what was happening both of your channels you're spot on with how you're phrasing it at the time I didn't put A to B in my head because I had once again during that time just started making excuses for myself because things had become so normalized in that era and in that group of people I was with if I had sat down and really thought do you know what you did do you know what you posted do you know what kind of people are can you visualize who's watching this can you I didn't do that and I didn't care enough at the time to sit down and really give myself a hard look in the mirror and I just didn't do it and I look back now my God I I did that I absolutely did that when Fame hits and notoriety hits a lot of people I don't want to say all people but a lot of people tend to disregard their moral standards in a way that before fame it wasn't a thing for them I think there there is actually a saying something along the lines of success wealth doesn't necessarily change you it just magnifies what you already were sure was there a part of you that was already like that that already even though you said I would never do that but could it have just been magnifying something that was already there with you I've had a lot of issues uh with the way I was raised it's embarrassing to say out loud but I always made jokes about it to my friends it was like the known thing and it would get people to laugh and I liked that I like that they were laughing and I liked that I was turning something that I was embarrassed about into something that was funny and somewhat validating in a way and so it makes sense psychologically that I would take that next step if I get a lot of eyeballs on me that the kind of things I would joke about with my friends probably is going to start popping up in my content as well and as much as I want to say I had no malicious intent I didn't try to do anything sometimes just the fact that you you got an elephant in the room and you're just gonna turn around and act like it's not there is doing just as much damage as when you're damaged is when you're intentionally doing something with that purpose even beyond the content uh you know we talk about how this normalizes things and you've talked about how it was normalized it became normalized for you to do content like this so now you know the concern is you know that the cheese balls skit on the Miranda Sings tour in front of I don't know thousands of people and then we see clips of you participating in that same skit we can speak to it being normalized for you but I think we need to speak to this being normalized on a massive scale in a way that we haven't seen often when we're talking about the massive scale of celebrity that particularly Colleen had and then you coming along and participating in that it I mean it goes back to everything I'm saying that I didn't have a backbone and I just went with it it was it's very well known and this does not eradicate me from anything but it's just well known in that group that one person was creating that show and one person was creating the bits and you don't challenge it because she's the successful one she's the one that Rose to the top and how dare you tell her how to do what she knows how to do best I didn't want to ruffle her feathers about that I there's a lot of things over those years that I just stopped complaining about and just stopped making an issue about because it never got me anywhere it only made things more tense and so I did the Cowardly thing and just went with it not thinking but what is this doing to them and how are they perceiving that this is like it's all everyone's in on it and it's going over their heads I kept convincing myself this goes over their head this like they don't get that the cheese balls and reaching in means X Y and Z I mean it's you know it's the the age-old skit uh that we've you know seen those old video clips of a guy who's got candy in his pocket there's just no world I can get to thinking that that was something that a an adult came up with and another adult co-signed you co-signing participating in it the the tour managers co-signing on it the venue co-signing I mean every adult in the room it's like I want to ask where are the adults because apparently no one wants to act like one the adults are everywhere they're everywhere they're not doing anything you're right right and I know I'm the one in the hot seat and that's fine you can direct it to me and that's totally okay I'm not gonna shift on that but just hearing you list that the tech crew the the people at the venue the adults doing tickets managers stage managers her parents were at so many shows me Corey no one's saying don't do it nobody is and it's being paraded around like it's okay like like more than okay because you're monetizing this too sure so it's someone's paying for them to even be there and she she knew that I didn't like that part but that again that doesn't change that what the outcome was when you're along a ride with her don't Don't Rock the Boat go with it there is something that we found a thread on the snark Reddit referring to an old Vlog specifically the Vlog allegedly has you discussing you writing some of the materials so we were wondering if this is true if you did write any of the Miranda Sings material no no no no uh the audacity that I would even think that I could lend an idea to her no she didn't take my ideas and it wasn't like we all sat there I was like let's brainstorm and let's come up with some Concepts and some bits I mean she sure as heck never wanted my input she'd ask Corey she would ask Christopher I never got the sense that she respected me enough to contribute those things I've seen people say that like oh Josh needs to answer for writing some of this material I'm like well I didn't write that I participated in things that I'm like oh that's cringy shouldn't have done that that's gross but I didn't write it that it's just it never happened I wanted to take this time to ask Joshua about one of Colleen's most front-facing victims Becky for those of you who don't know Becky was somebody who was called on stage to a Miranda sings show for the yoga challenge an event that ended up with her in a vulnerable position on stage likely over the years there have been many Becky's and I know Becky's story happened after Joshua left the picture but I wanted to ask him about the bit from the show in interest of getting to the bottom of this for her and for all of the other Becky's that there have been over the years there's a spectrum of opinions about this stuff in general but on a more probably more critical take I'll put it is it just generally kind of looks like you guys were willing to sell them for a buck I think that's what has really Disturbed people about this whole story and why this has become an international story now and everything that's been happening with Colleen and her entire tour being canceled now I'm guessing the venues are the ones who stepped in to cancel it I don't presume that Colleen was the one who did but you know I think about one victim in particular in this story Becky who was brought on stage in a romper and was put in the yoga bit that happened and you know when I think about her story and what she went through and then to hear her story and to speak with her I'm curious to know you have posted some apologies and you have on Twitter you've made some statements saying that you support their feelings are valid and and all of that and I'm just kind of curious as someone who very openly participated in those shows I'm wondering what you would think Becky might feel when you're now saying your feelings are valid someone should have been protecting them and I could have been one of those people I didn't do it and the more that comes out the more that I feel sick to my stomach the more I think you had an opportunity you had many opportunities and just because bad things were happening behind the scenes does not mean it's okay for you to be complicit in these situations and even participate in these situations so to anyone that's watching this just like I said on Twitter but I mean it as deeply as I can you're not at fault it was not your fault you did not deserve it you should have never been in that situation you should have always been protected and you should have always had people to step in and and oversee and make judgment calls and none of us did and now there are repercussions and my words are only words and I know that but I don't know how else to at least start to say I see you I wish I could strong arm myself back into that moment and change it and I'm ashamed that I didn't do anything significant enough that would have resulted in them not experiencing what they're experiencing now and then after the show we did meet and greets and I hung around with the parents most of the time while they were all meeting her and we would joke with the parents and they would joke back and again I'd walk away thinking not you know there's nothing wrong we're fine and it's not now it was about this point that Joshua brought up someone completely on his own that I hadn't been planning on asking him about uh JoJo siwa a former reality star made famous in her appearances on the show Dance Moms before transitioning to a career on YouTube there's a lot of hush discussion online about JoJo siwa's relationship with the Ballinger Family now JoJo has not come forward either negatively or positively about her experiences but for context she has been a collaborator with Colleen Ballinger her sister Rachel Ballinger and Joshua David Evans at multiple points in her life and to this day remains public friends with at least Rachel Ballinger from what we can tell but after the Colleen and Josh divorce JoJo initially took Josh's side and continued to collaborate with him for at least a year following the divorce before the two had an undiscussed falling out that led to her becoming closer to the ballingers there's a situation with JoJo see what that I walked away from because it was starting to get that way and I was being pressured to continue pulling her over to my side and I flat out said I will not this is after the divorce so like I'm starting to like snap out of it right and to the people that were like you need to reach out to Jojo because she was very much you know a fan of you and favored you but the ballingers are trying to get to her and bring her over we noticed that there was a shift with her and her engagement or interaction with you the reason why that happened was because when I was on the telephone and I won't name names they're like if I were you you should text her back call her let her know DM her that you still want to be in her life and I sat on the phone I said I'm not about to try to navigate control over who she likes it's weird and I will not do it and that was one of the first times that post my involvement I got to make a decision on my own I knew I could continue being close with Jojo and I am not going to go down that road so she's going to have to think I'm a person because I'm not going to engage anymore and I'm not going to try to sway her over to liking me and believing me and not believing them and then it happened I watched it unfold and the moment she even went on a podcast with Rachel I believe she even said oh yeah for that year I didn't talk to you guys because I was y'all were mad at me because I was you know hanging out with Josh or whatever again I'm paraphrasing I got tweeted that information and I thought well okay everything I thought was going to happen did happen and at least I can look at this situation this one thing and be like you did the right thing you could be doing what I think they have done with her for years now is to take that name and take that involvement and benefit from it which is something I used to be a part of when I have opportunities to do the right thing I want to take them and do them doesn't erase things but it it's the bare minimum of what I could start doing and I could have kept doing that and I just decided to walk away now the topic of racism unfortunately is part of the story when it comes to the Colleen Ballinger Universe we've seen many video clips of Colleen as Miranda Sings mocking and belittling people of color asking if black people speak English and of course the blackface green face scandal in the middle of this current story breaking Joshua had also participated in content considered racially insensitive so as you might have guessed I confronted him about it and Destroy minor there will not be anything graphic played in regards to this I'm just gonna very briefly address just one other piece of content that is unfortunately out in the world um you Colleen and Rachel made a music video called generic rap song Yes where unfortunately the three of you dress in very offensive racially insensitive stereotyping outfits and the entire song is mocking rap and hip-hop which of course is quite Central to the black community culturally you've said that you've learned you're taking accountability for things yeah why is that video still up it's on my old Channel that I do not have the password for anymore that's on a channel called Joshua d84 which was my first channel I mean at this point it's like 15 years old but yeah if I could access it I would I would take it down right now I absolutely understand why it is offensive and I thought we were teetering on the line of just commenting on how a rap song is created and the type of things that you hear in a rap song um and I was very insensitive not even understanding I wouldn't even call it microaggressions I would call it aggressions if that's how you phrase it we generally just call it racist sure racist yep um where I'm from I was taught a mentality whether I was aware of it or not and I've had to go through a lot of growing pains through seasons of life where I had to unlearn a lot of things and unlearn a lot of things I thought was funny to talk about jokes I would make about other types of communities and changing my perspective changing what I think is okay and what's not okay and I made excuses in my head thinking I'm not talking about black people I'm talking about anybody in the rap game because there's a they're you know Eminem and all those people back then that it doesn't matter that that's how I Justified it in my head back then I see it now and I think there's only one way to interpret that song and I thought it was funny and it's not funny I want to take full accountability I didn't write the whole thing but it doesn't matter it doesn't matter uh we've all decided on it we all filmed it we all recorded it we posted it I think once you put the do-rag on you're pretty committed to yeah to the cause there yeah sure in those years I've had to face why did I think that was okay why did I think that was funny why did I think you know when you think oh but SNL they'd make a sketch like that and mad tv would make a sketch like that and that's the content I've watched and I you know you start to think that's okay doesn't mean it's okay you don't like my answer no no it's it's I mean your answer is your answer I just you know I'm thinking about people about your response to the answer no no I'm just thinking about when people say like oh so and so did it so and so did it and it's like well that was racist and that was racist and we're just apparently people didn't want to pay attention to the fact that this is really harmful to marginalized communities and it always has been since the dawn of time so yeah anyways it's not something that I wanted to like I don't really dig into but I just was you know I see this and I'm like he's talking about accountability why is this still up and then you say you don't have access to the channel so it gives more context to the thing but hopefully uh you've learned some things since then I would hope so um I would hope so because you know when you hear people like I have black friends so I'm not racist I even I mean I roll my eyes at that I'm aware and even though I'm different now yeah it's just a stain in my life that I have to live with regardless of how I feel now foreign Silvestri on June 7th 2023 a man named Jonathan Silvestri took to Twitter to accuse Josh of harming him as the clean Ballinger story blew up on social media Johnny tweeted allegations of varying severity at Joshua hundreds of times in around two months and shared his allegations on the H3 podcast the do we know them podcast with Lily and Jesse and with me in a number of interviews if you've seen part three you know how that turned out for him now this interview with Joshua took place on July 21st just one day after my team and I had discovered John may have doctored evidence while also admitting to me that John Silvestri didn't want to take accountability publicly for his role in group chats that he had been in no I'm not gonna lie I had a few doubts about John considering we had already clocked a number of inconsistencies in his timeline but that double whammy from the day before my interview with Josh completely shift lifted the energy that I had in even asking Joshua about John now we already knew that John had lied about his age we already knew that his parents had been around John and Joshua practically every time they were together and even encouraged their limited interactions and at this point we already knew that John had a peculiar trend of describing his mentorship of fans the same way that he described Joshua allegedly mentoring him that somehow Josh's mentorship was evil but John's was honorable but regardless I didn't tell Joshua about any of our findings in order to keep the investigation clean remember at the time of this interview we were still piecing together who to believe and on what so I wanted to see if the way Joshua described the events to us matched what we had found and to my team's utter surprise it did we're gonna have to talk about Johnny Silvestri now a lot of the public believes that Johnny is the reason why you have been brought back into this whole story as you know in full disclosure I have done a six hour interview with Johnny which I have not shared the details with you I don't know anything about it it's no secret Johnny has accused you of some very serious allegations uh we're gonna get to specifics but I do want to start just in general right now do you agree with that characterization of you no not at all it's just a heavy thing to throw out I know my intent I know who I am I've made mistakes but but I also don't know if I believe that he even thinks that that he thinks that I'm those things do you feel like he's just making these claims uh not believing them and that their lies or what do you mean by that no I think he he takes fragments of Truth that are real and he amplifies them almost identically to our Colleen did the same thing behind the scenes where she would take little fragments of Truth and this is what I've seen with receipts little fragments of Truth and then expand on them to make them massive and that's just the narrative that's believed so seeing him take the the relationship that we had and to articulate it in this way while leaving out so much context in in embellishing and misleading I've taken it so much over the last six or seven years I've dealt with it and I don't want this The Narrative taken for me again the story of what happened is not the way he's portraying it and I don't think he I don't know I can't speak for him but I think there's a part of him that knows what he's doing and if he's not talking about me anymore then what does he have left to bring people in their eyeballs over to him because the things that he he's claiming is just it's just wildly misleading and damning and very hurtful when I never had any ill will towards him the things he says is just it's heartbreaking because it's not what I thought he was it's not what I thought he was about when you say that you think that he knows what he's doing do you think that he is making these allegations out of malicious intent or what do you mean by that when you say he knows what he's doing at first I didn't think that that's why I wrote to him privately when I got wind that he was feeling hurt so I reached out and then the way he has responded to that and how it has progressively gotten more and more hateful spiteful embellished everything I do or say he somehow makes it as like a Slam against him when it had nothing to do with him and it's hard for me not to see the parallels there are parallels between me and him and Adam and Colleen there are but their worlds apart what parallels would you say exist so the parallels just with the relationship is I gave him my phone number and then he ran an account for me to me that's where the parallel stops and even the account that he's talking about he's comparing it to something that is it's a false equivalency it's not the same and he wants it to be the same he wants to project that it's the same and it's just not now just to recap a bit from part three one of the things that I discovered in the seven and a half combined hours and speaking with John Silvestri is that in his words John and his parents went on a family trip to a show in New York City where they had a sort of unofficial meet and greet to meet Colleen and Joshua alongside a number of Colleen fans in my conversations with Joshua I discovered that Johnny tweeted and spoke often in these chats about how he was depressed and having trouble in school and Josh believed that John was in need of guidance and at the meet and greet Johnny handed them a paper crown he had won from the show to be autographed Colleen signed it and then Joshua signed and then Joshua proceeded to put his phone number on the crown as well but Johnny and Joshua have expressed that this was meant as some kind of misguided attempt at Joshua becoming a mentor and I agree with both of them it's very inappropriate except it's also worth noting that not only were Johnny's parents there for this according to John they knew and they approved of this because Johnny was an aspiring YouTuber to quote adult Johnny about this his parents thought he was quote doing the damn thing and that maybe their son was going to make something of himself on YouTube and I think in their minds they were just like holy like our kids doing the damn thing okay so maybe school didn't work out for him but like maybe he's meant for something maybe he's gonna do something maybe Josh can be a mentor for him to take it and just run so far with it it's hard to think he has good intentions it's hard to think that he is truly believing this to his heart and it feels hurt and wants retribution or something to me when I said to him privately this is getting vindictive and then he took that and said how dare you call me vindictive I might read the whole thing man I didn't say you are a vindictive person this situation starts to feel vindictive and I stand by that it read anything he's saying it's a lot to deal with so as far as the parallel with our relationship with me and him and Adam and Colleen yeah I was the influencer he was the fan I handed him an account that had barely any followers that I did not take seriously that I was not making money off of that I never intended to make money off of I didn't want to do it anymore he already had an account that was identical identical to the one I had and I thought I don't care enough to keep up with this I really don't we're specifically talking about the Sarah ridiculous account I had a character called Sarah ridiculous obnoxious blonde who just is entitled that's the whole spiel and I had a Twitter account where I would tweet as her I think it has maybe 2 000 and something followers to it it was for a season and it was fun to do but it just wasn't something I wanted to continue but I saw his well I didn't know it was his Twitter at first I saw another account that was very similar with you know the phrasing just a little bit different in the title and the same things that were being tweeted from that fake account was very similar to mine and so I found out who it was I didn't think it was him at first I thought it was another Mutual but I reached out and she said no it's not me it's actually Johnny I'm like oh well me and Johnny are cool I'll just I'm just gonna throw it over to Johnny and I reached out and said do you want to run this thing he did provide me uh with a a screenshot of your text exchange about that but one of the questions you know that comes anytime a screenshot is presented is what is the context you know before and after that we can't see all I remember is finding out that it was him and asking him but I don't remember the nuances of what we really talked about again it was he was so many years ago it's hard for me to recollect were you continuing to tweet from that account at the same time that he was or did he take it over entirely I think there were times that I still would hop in and tweet and then eventually by like 2015 just stopped looking at it stop logging in stop searching for it stopped engaging because it didn't hold a lot of weight for me because it wasn't something I wanted to continue that's why it felt like not a big deal because I wasn't making money from it and it was never a promise of you do this and you'll make money it was never that type of thing it was to me I can understand his point of view where it's like you have maybe your favorite influencer saying do you want to run something that I created and that's a big deal I see that I get that and so I don't want to take that from him that's how it felt for him yeah I mean I think that's uh you know you mentioned the parallels with Colleen's relationship with Adam and him taking over the Miranda Sings Twitter account she was kind of dangling over his head you'll you'll get a job you do good here then I will hire you officially and so she has Adam doing essentially Free Labor I don't I don't want to call it payment but I was happy to say listen dude if this is something you want to like get into content creation you know I'm gonna promote you on my page I'm gonna put you as one of my people you know go follow these guys too and I meant that I I was rooting for him but it wasn't like do this and I'll give you that it was never that type of a thing there was no exchange there was no promise I mean of course like he brings up that I promised him up and down if I made it big I'd bring him with me this was my ticket to success my ticket to happiness no one could take it away from me you can ask anybody he would be like oh yeah me and Johnny we're gonna take over the world we're gonna make it big together someday Johnny my whole world and career crashed to the ground where was I going to take you what did you expect me to do there was nothing to take you to I lost everything so when he keeps saying that as if it's like a weapon for him to use it's like well why don't you include the rest of it he's referred to that uh an interview with me as you selling him a fantasy and he used that word quite a number of times also this fantasy of being kind of the bigger brother to him and you're going to take him under his wing and whatnot and that's something that he's characterized quite often do you agree with that were you making those promises was there a fantasy to me there was nothing uh misleading about what I was saying there was nothing inauthentic about what I was saying everything I said to him about those things I meant those things when I said oh like you're like a little bro and I'm a big bro I meant that I grew up in a culture where I had older people in a youth group like I was a big Christian upbringing I had older people in their 20s as mentors and it was very normal for me because my father and I it was we were on such bad terms and he was incredibly I needed somebody and I had it with the church people so when I saw Johnny expressed to me I have nobody how did you make it out of high school I don't have any friends my heart went out to him and so that's why to me it didn't feel like a wrong thing to be like I'll be someone that you can reach out to now did that mean I'm going to talk to you every single day and we're going to be on the phone and I'm going to have check-ins with you it was never like that the reason why I keep saying internet Big Brother when I talk about it sometimes is because that puts a distance that I was very aware of and I was very conscious of now as a reminder John's correspondence with Joshua online began with him directly telling Joshua that he was feeling alone depressed and having trouble in school this is an important context in understanding this story in general I mean I worried about him the look on his face when I first started getting to like see him interact I just felt really not super protective but protective enough that like something in me wanted to like lend a hand when did you when did you first meet Johnny and kind of just kind of walk me through the the story of how you meet Johnny and how your relationship developed they got wind that we were going to be in New York for a Miranda show it's all kind of blurry for me because it was so long ago but I remember there being a handful of of people with him it wasn't just him and we were all talking we were all like oh my God yeah hey so nice to meet you in person he always had this kind of presence that seemed I say I feel bad saying this he just it seemed sad he just seemed sad to me and I remembered how it felt with my situation and it broke my heart and I I made a mistake and while we were giving autographs which was a new thing for me because YouTube at that point I want to make that clear YouTube wasn't my job then I would to me that's why it's like it wasn't this weird influencer fan Dynamic I had other jobs not YouTube so it really for me felt like oh this is kind of like the youth group thing I'm the older one now I want to lend a handout to him that's what happened for me not I'm this big person that everyone knows the fact that they even wanted my signature was new there was still a power Dynamic there of course you know because you're attached to one of his idols you become an idol as well just kind of because you're associated with Colleen well I hear what you're saying that YouTube wasn't your job then there's still going to be that I understood the diamond there yeah I'm not saying like oh I'm just the Joe schmoe and that's all I am I know I am by association part of this growing thing at the time all I saw was someone that I felt my heart go out too and that was it I I think you were about to touch upon but Johnny has obviously said publicly uh that when he met you in New York he was getting autographs from everyone it was Colleen Colleen is Miranda and you but you instead of just giving him your autograph you also gave him your phone number I sure did why did you do this because from your number the same reason why my mentors growing up had my number and I I was introduced to that idea is like there's a there are boundaries you don't over you you don't like call this older guy at all hours of the night you use it if things are bad with your dad use it I didn't know the way he had painted it to me it was like no one was there for him he didn't have anybody he didn't have any friends and he didn't feel like he connected to anybody and I felt terrible for him and it was a mistake to give him my number I understand that now but my intent was to me it never felt creepy and never felt like I wanted to get something from him I felt almost responsible like I should do this I should help him out thinking that we're going to understand boundaries and it's not going to be some consistent all the time thing to me it was just like a knee jerk this is what you do like does he have anybody and so I just thought what if no one else reaches out to him what if this is it and I don't want to sound dramatic but that's really how I felt I thought this guy needs somebody at least to say I I believe in you I think you're going to do great things you know obviously the public is seeing you sort of unsolicited giving your phone numbers can you understand why people have so many questions around that yeah I can understand how people will look at it now and be like why would Josh do that because Josh at that time thought I'm doing a good thing and they're that's what good people do and in retrospect it's like oh okay that set the course that became increasingly aggressive or to the point where I didn't know how to interact what do you mean by aggressive he would start to show up at shows of course I wanted people to come to shows but most of the time it wasn't even my show at first it was felt normal and chill to have like oh that's Johnny he's at the show that's my boy that's my little bro what's up dude no I'll hang over on the side where everyone else is here but yeah dude how's life what's going on I didn't know that that was going to be time and time and time again that he would continuously show up at these shows you characterize this as aggressive was this something were you directly inviting him like was he inviting himself were you inviting him was it a mixture I want to be fair going back through my Twitter DMS it shows that it's far more heavier on his side I need to talk to you we need to talk let's talk call me or can I call you or I'm coming to your show and or when is your show and I'm coming I was going to surprise you like it was not me saying you got to come to my show you have to come to my show please come to every show that I will be a part of and when I started getting those messages if if you look at those receipts you'll see I don't respond because I don't I didn't know how to respond anymore because at that point I'm like I don't want to hurt his feelings I gave him the number I engaged but now it feels like I am I've bitten off more than I can chew so I mentioned earlier that just one day before this interview we discovered that Johnny and Joshua did not send identical Twitter DM receipts and that July 20th 2023 was the day we believe we received doctored evidence from Johnny Silvestri what I don't think I mentioned yet is that Joshua did not know about this at all in hindsight when Joshua is talking about all of this and his complete confusion on what communicating with Johnny back then was even like I cannot even imagine how frustrating it must have been to discover that Johnny had deleted so many of the DMS he had sent to Joshua and then tried to pass it off as legitimate representation to us of how Johnny and Joshua spoke back then I want to touch upon really quick uh coming back to when you gave him your phone number do you recall if his parents were there I remember off to the side there were a group of adults I don't remember every interaction I had in that moment on the streets of New York well he he did share with me an interview that his parents were there I feel like I acknowledged his father do I remember going up to them and I knowing me I'm a I'm a chatty guy you know it wouldn't surprise me if I walked over and introduced myself to them as well I just don't remember if I did that in that moment after you gave him your phone number do you can you give me an idea of how often you and Johnny would talk it was not incredibly consistent to me it happened in spurts I do remember not always responding to certain things but then I would chime in and with this span like text messages on the phone were there phone calls was it Twitter it was mainly it was never phone calls it was never like we're on the phone just chatting the night away that was never a thing I what I remember was fragmented amounts and it wasn't like every single day or tweeting about life and what's going on at school today and it was never like that so we know about Joshua and Johnny's experiences on Tiny chat but I was curious given Johnny's dodgy answers about how they allegedly spent time alone what Joshua had to say about the concept of the two of them spending time alone [Music] I'm curious to know if you have an idea of how many times you hung out with Johnny in any capacity in person probably anywhere from I've probably seen him in person six seven eight times to my recollection were any of those times alone every single time I was ever around him there were other people around it was never wear off on some secluded place just us that was never a situation it was either in public where hundreds of people were around or it was his family is right there the the one time that I hung out with his family so four shows like meet and greets right I want to talk about the auto show Johnny has referred to this him coming to the auto show and he refers to having a coffee date with you okay and that's how he characterized it to me a coffee date we had a little coffee date when he worked at the auto show uh he said that he you know this happened during the Chicago Auto Show that you were working um where you guys also created some content together uh his family was there you had a dinner with his family is that correct uh can you just tell me about this entire interaction with this auto show how did he come to be there how did his family come to be there and what happened I remember being on the auto show floor where I was presenting the Chevy Cruze I recognized his sister walking around and I was like oh hey and at the time I believe his sister was like in college or getting into college and I'm like what are you doing here do you like cars and we I'm sitting there on this rotating thing with a car talking to her just like I would talk to any buddy coming up to see the car and that turned into leading to well now Johnny and my family also want to hang out or they're they're wondering if you can or they're wondering if there's time so you you run into his sister first well she yeah okay to my knowledge I saw her first and there's there's also a picture on Instagram where we're at the auto show and it's me and his sister yes and I'm like hiding behind her hair and that turned into discussions of my family would love to have you over for dinner and I'm like well I don't know and like I was nervous to be honest with you I didn't really know them like super well but I also knew I'm on this Auto Show circuit for months and I eat fast food every night and I all the people in the auto show they go party every night I don't want to do that I don't want to party again hey Johnny's cool and his family seems so much like families I grew up around so I was like you know what it's fine yeah that sounds like a great idea was Johnny there when she had invited you to dinner with the family I honestly don't remember I don't remember if he was or was not I do remember talking to him at some point about it to be honest again like I would I'm trying to fill in gaps in my head right now do you remember having coffee yeah absolutely yeah I did tell me about that um he wanted to hang out again where were you this was the auto show floor with the cafe not cafeteria it was a food court and I remember him wanting to hang out and I was like well you can come see me on my break but it can't be for too long because I have to get back to work and I remember we both got a coffee I believe I paid for his coffee and hung out for 15-20 minutes and then I had to go I had to go back to work how do you feel about that being characterized as a quote coffee date it makes me feel weird inside to have anyone think of it that way because to me it was I'm chill with your family we like had a fun dinner we were together for a couple of hours and he wants to hang out again okay like to categorize it as a date feels very misleading and very like I'm gonna paint it in this light when it was not like that okay can you just briefly tell me about the the having dinner with Johnny's family we all sat around the table and had a great meal and got to know each other and talked and it wasn't like super long it's not like I was there for four or five six hours or anything and then they took me back to the auto show so it was a short kind of a short dinner it was a casual dinner and we enjoyed our time and I I loved like talking to his parents and getting to know their life and hearing about his sister's aspirations and what she was going towards and it all felt I don't know I felt it felt nice to be around a family when I'm constantly on the road one of the things that made interviewing John Silvestri so frustrating is that in virtually all of the stories he told me he claimed back then he was 15 or 17 years old and being directly invited to Joshua's shows across the country while also proving through his own words that this wasn't the case one of the most perplexing examples of this came when John told me a story about how he flew down to California from Illinois to catch one of Joshua's shows that he claimed Joshua made him go to and how he was allegedly 17 years old and renting a car to do that to be clear none of that was true he was an adult and the invitation John talks about was Joshua promoting a show on Twitter I want to touch uh upon quickly on the Irvine show the Shadows tour the first show that you had of that tour that happened on May 20th 2015. that was just a few days before Johnny's birthday on May 24th when he was about to turn 19. Johnny claims that you invited him to to the show he would say stuff to me like oh my God come to California come to California for my show and I'd be like are you serious and you'd be like yeah come on down and I'd be like whoa sick uh so he flew out to Los Angeles rented a car and drove to the show he also has said that uh he had trouble renting the car and that he had messaged both you and Colleen kind of conveying that he was stranded and hoping maybe you would come pick him up from Irvine and to Los Angeles I'm curious do you remember him calling you and did you directly invite him to that show I don't remember him calling me it was our very first show we were on edge we were nervous everyone and their brother was coming to that show every YouTuber you can think of was at that show um if he did call and I just don't remember that that was happening it I had so many things going on Tech runs you know making sure everything is set up sure it's it's a busy it's a busy time it's a lot so if I got a call I probably was overwhelmed at the time don't really remember it but I'll take him at his word if he said he that's what he experienced and that's what he called so it wasn't me saying you've got to come to this show man do whatever it takes like that's not what happened this is the the night that Johnny has stated that he came out to you and he said that you you responded by saying quote that's none of my business uh and when he said that he he has expressed that he had told you that he was considering coming out to his parents and he has said that you discouraged him from doing so is this how you remember that happening yeah it did happen that way he he said it to me I was taken aback I was not expecting that kind of a major life declaration especially in that dynamic in that situation with what was going on around us the first response was that's not that's not my business you don't have to tell me that kind of a thing but then when it comes to his parents what he's leaving out is he also expressed immense fear of what his parents would say or do in reaction and so being from the south and knowing how people treat and seeing people being treated a certain way my first response was if you feel like this is dangerous for you and if you do it you might not have a place to sleep at night and you don't know what's going to happen maybe you should wait until you're 18. well he said he was 19. there's been because I don't there's been different ages that have been that's what I'm like but when he has said that this happened at the Shadows show which would have been in 2015 so that would have been that would have put him 18 turning 19. okay at the time so he has said that this is when it happened so I absolutely yeah sure so he would have been yeah well then I'm about to turn 19. then what I recollect is that he was living with them he was still under that roof and my response was if you feel like that would mess that up and that you would not have a place to go then my advice is to get on your own two feet and be able to take care of yourself if you don't feel like the response you know them better than anybody else here would know so if you don't think they're going to receive it well and you you're afraid of that then I've seen where it goes sour and they're left on the street and it's real and it's bad it was never a thing of don't tell them that's not I don't feel that way I did not feel that way during that time so for him to say that I was just like to kind of shoving it off and say don't tell them it's so bad that's not that is not what I thought that's not my tone if anything he's picking and choosing parts of it and leaving other parts out I remember thinking he's afraid of what his parents are going to say or if they're going to be distraught and it's not going to end well for him and maybe he doesn't have anywhere to go because he still didn't have a lot of people in his life to my knowledge I'm not going to provide my thoughts on this uh he does seem quite hurt and upset feeling like he was discouraged I don't believe him I don't I think he knows he knows me for him to say that I discouraged him because I thought it was wrong or there was something wrong with him is absolutely the polar opposite of who I was then especially who I am now there's no part of me that would shun him in a way of like don't you don't you say that that was never a part of it I think he knows that it feels like a lot of things he he pulls fragments and he leaves out context and when you do that you can string together any type of narrative you want it's happened to me so many times with the Colleen situation so it just doesn't it doesn't feel right for him to twist it without the context of but he also communicated this other thing that changes to me the whole dynamic I feel like it was at the meet and greet there's a lot of things happening and he drops this okay you dropped it I don't know how to take that in this moment I got a whole line of other people waiting and now you're expressing you don't you don't know how it's going to go so to hear him just push that narrative over and over and over feels very dishonest I'm Gonna Leave your words to speak for yourself there because I think that's it's a very obviously a very sensitive subject within the same time frame though uh a few days later per what Johnny told me an interview uh he said he received a birthday gift from his family which was a video a montage of a bunch of you know family friends and whatnot wishing him a happy birthday and uh it included clips of you saying happy birthday to him and Trent Ballinger on Twitter Johnny has characterized your video clip he's clipped it out he's put it on Twitter and he's characterized it as very creepy a creepy act what's up Johnny happy birthday man today is a big day for you happy birthday man I believe in you I'm proud of you and I cannot wait to see what the future holds for Mr Silvestri so Mysteries the future holds for however in my interview with him he told me that and I don't think he's shared this publicly anywhere he told me that his family hounded you to make that video and then even more confusing is that video you see of him wishing me a happy birthday they told me now that they had asked him if he would do it and he said yes absolutely and then they had to Hound him and be like dude you said you'd make the video like come on like you're the only person we're waiting on you're not Beyonce get on your phone and just say hey Johnny happy birthday it doesn't have to be anything extravagant you said you do it I was asked repeatedly can you send this but I was asked that question from numerous fans it's my birthday can you send me a birthday shout out it was it's like Cameo like it it was something that yeah every now and then I would either tweet to people happy birthday I heard it's your birthday or I pull up my phone right then and there and be like hey Margaret I heard it's your birthday happy birthday hope you have a great one and I remember hearing hey it's his birthday can you can you add we're doing this can you add to it and I mean why would I not for him to call it creepy I don't understand what What's creepy about it tell me what's creepy I just you know I don't think that he had shared publicly that his family had actually requested it I was requested so many different times from different people or sorry he actually used the word hounded you for it it feels so out of left pocket it doesn't feel like how can you take that where anyone can watch it and then turn around and be like see how creepy that is when it's to me it's the most innocent wishing someone a happy birthday now one of the things that has always been perplexing to me about John silvestri's claims against Joshua was that Joshua ghosted John it has verifiably been shown untrue even in the literal sense of the word for as long as I've known about Jon's story now Joshua explains what I mean pretty well I want to move on to the ghosting that he talks about uh do you know specifically when you stopped speaking to Johnny the last two months of my marriage so uh summertime of 2016. things were rough in my life before everything blew up and I already started distancing myself from people I was going through a lot of stuff I didn't know who to talk to when I'm sad depressed I isolate when everything happened and my life imploded my my whole world was destroyed I lost like I said I lost a family I was betrayed by the one person I I wanted to trust the most I was falling apart I didn't know what my next step was going to be I was thinking I could ask for half of everything but I'm not going to do that I'm just going to give it all to her and I did do that and I don't remember half of the people reaching out to me because I just went into a dark silent place and the next thing I can remember has anything to do with him is seeing him tweeting positively to her and so in my mind I'm like I was hurt by that I was hurt thinking why are you showing support to someone that you know if if you like my internet little bro like what it feels weird that you're like saying admirable things to this person that wrecked me and so I didn't confront him I didn't go off I wasn't about to be like you need to come over to my side how dare you I don't want to control him that's a whole thing he wants to say he was controlled that's the opposite of what I did I didn't want to control him I wanted him to make his own decisions so to me he made a decision and then I made a decision which was I can't see anything related to her it hurts too bad so I removed anything that had any type of connection to her especially like on my channel I featured a lot of her family members I had to take that off but then I also took YouTube like I just walked away from YouTube for a chunk of time and fell into a deep dark place right which you had spoken about uh earlier for him to because he goes on and on and on about this whole ghosting thing and everyone's like poor Johnny poor Johnny poor Johnny that was so messed up I can't believe that happened and once again it feels identical to what I went through where no one gave about what I was feeling and what was going on with me everyone's like poor Johnny I can't believe Josh just abandoned you and I'm like who Do You Think You Are my life was wrecked you think I'm my first priority is to not talk to my best friends from childhood which I wasn't doing or family but I need to come out and be like I just want to let you know we're cool bro that was not in my psyche where's the understanding where's the where's the ability at this point because he's not a baby like where's the part of you in your Humanity that goes he's going through hell maybe he needs some time it saying about me right now the way he's depicting depicting it now especially all these years later it's right there my life crashed and burned and he's mad that I wasn't like hitting him up and then so he jumps ship and goes over to Colleen and then starts doing tour stuff with her and is still mad and acting like I was some villain ghosting him because I didn't give about him it's just not it's not how it went it's infuriating because it's like once again it doesn't matter about what happened to me everyone else is right everybody else is always right Josh is always the lesser than it was just that all over again I'm lesser than in every situation and now in 2023 I'm dealing with it again it doesn't matter that I was when my whole life fell apart and I didn't want to live I didn't respond to Johnny that's infuriating to me where's any ounce of care or consideration of what I was feeling there isn't any and now he's weaponizing it and I have to defend myself all over again like my heart doesn't matter if you don't mind I would like to ask you and it has to do with Johnny he acknowledged you being a victim in your relationship with Colleen and then he went on to say that why didn't you get out of it you must have wanted something you around and found out and and now you're just upset about it at this point I don't care that he was a victim because we're not talking about that story anymore if he wanted to talk about that story he had every opportunity in 2016 he said he was going to do it but he was making an ass out of himself and I think he got embarrassed and he started this new life in Georgia I'm no Colleen apologist but he actively chose to remain in this relationship he had so many outs he didn't propose for like nine years why did you enter a marriage that was so toxic if you knew it was so bad you must have wanted something out of it and it bit you in the ass you so I I truly think it was like he around and found out and now he's just upset about it how did that make you feel hearing him say something like that uh he's saying the quiet part well he's saying what I think everyone is saying it didn't feel new to me it didn't feel like oh my gosh I can't believe it's like yeah I heard that people just don't care how it affects me I just really started believing that I just didn't matter I didn't matter how it affected me doesn't matter my emotions doesn't matter Johnny himself said I don't care like to me it wasn't like some sword through the chest it was just kind of like another numbing slap in the face another like yep you already know this you know that you were just this thing you weren't person who also has feelings and and a journey in hopes and dreams and downfalls like cool you don't like me I have thought that a lot of people don't like me for a long long time and it used to suck my soul rye and now I have closed myself off and I only truly look for that kind of validation with only an animal if that you have been I don't want to like just kiss up to you but I don't feel like you're in my corner I feel like you are uh you just care about truth and finding what that truth is and presenting that truth but I feel like I have never experienced that presenting the truth has changed a lot for me I just it's one of those things that I just never thought it would happen so thank you for being the only the only person in this whole shenanigans that like made me feel like I was worth a couple of cents you know like I I really appreciate it well you know as I've I've told you we just feel like in order to have an accurate story The responsible thing is to hear from many of the people involved as possible if they want to speak I don't want to skew how you're going to edit this or what you're going to show you can't so don't worry about that and also you know that I will Grill you you know the truth has a way of showing itself as long as you are willing to take accountability I do not regret caring about him I do not regret wanting to be a positive force in his life I regret that me giving my number to him led to a course of events that has spun out of control and the narrative has gone completely Haywire do I wish I could take back the moment where I gave him the number I do I do because I don't want the pain that he feels to have happened but I don't think at any point was I using him manipulating him getting things from him promising him all these crazy things all I did was I cared about him and then I didn't know how to navigate when this guy kept increasing the interactions between us that started to feel to me this isn't appropriate I don't know how to handle this I don't know what to say I don't want to hurt his feelings he already feels like a vulnerable person I don't want to be another rejection so when I reached out to him when I got wind that he was still so upset I I absolutely felt for him and it wasn't to save face it was Private it was me saying I didn't you know and I misstepped in my apology he picked it apart but I'm I genuinely meant I didn't mean for any of this to happen you were too young to understand boundaries next sentence that was my responsibility he doesn't say he doesn't try to include all of that in that first apology I said you didn't understand boundaries next sentence that was my job and I didn't do that for you and boundaries meaning boundaries meaning when he started showing up at all the shows and he would just stay in after all the people were gone with the meet and greet how do you tell someone who says they don't have any friends or they struggle to have friends how do you tell them listen man you can't be hanging around every time like this people start to look at that and they think well I want to hang around too he gets special treatment I saw it and I didn't know how well what do you say to someone vulnerable in that in that point I had already established a connection that I wasn't prepared for it to evolve into what it did and then I didn't know how to navigate well I I just want to just recap something that was in the Twitter DMS that you shared and in the couple of minutes that we have left um there are 20 total messages between you and Johnny between the first one and March 16th of 2015. which was the last message from Johnny where he said that you ghosted him um and 14 of the 20 messages are from Johnny but you hadn't responded to him actually since January 30th 2014 but as you said your last interaction that you recall was you said the couple of months around the divorce Johnny had then sent seven messages after that with no response from you in his video titled let's talk about Joshua David Evans he says a very emphatically that the last interaction he ever had with you was March 16 2015 saying quote this is the last interaction I ever had with this man he's saying that was March 2015 but of course he went to the Shadows show which was a few months after that so as we've been trying to piece the timeline together there have just been some things some dates that uh we're in my team and I are just not quite certain what's happening with those dates but we have seen a last interaction it seems uh was on less public interaction at least on Twitter that we found was on August 16 2016 which sounds right around right around everything August September is when it happened okay can you tell me what that interaction was yeah well his tweet is deleted uh but your Tweet says uh bring it bro 90s music forever do you happen to remember what that was about I mean I'm all about 90s music and I'm sure he made a reference or something okay that reaction is absolutely what I would have given anybody who referenced something that I'm into yeah so to to kind of wrap things up um why did you apologize in the way that you did because his pain in those moments initial moments that I started seeing all this pop up his pain seemed so guttural and real that the first thing I wanted to do was run and say whatever I did whatever participation I was a part of with this I am so sorry that it led to any type of pain for you or it led to um a disconnect of of boundary or what was expected or where I dropped off or whatever role I played that led to this being so harmful for you I want to let you know that that was never my heart and I'm so sorry that that happened it was never my intent to swoop him in and then take him on this ride that led him to then be mistreated by Queen and Corey on tour after the fact like I there wasn't there was no ill will I never had ill will towards him and I'm really trying my best now to not let my ego get in the way and say things I'll regret because if you look at the things he says to me now or not to me he blocked me because I kept apologizing to him and he goes on to berate me daily on lives on tweets directed at me and then tells me get my name out of your mouth Josh yet all he does is drag me through the mud and embellish every single thing he can the way he's piecing it together is so unfair and he's using it now it it feels exactly how Colleen used other people behind the scenes to come after me it's identical the way it's being shown together his his word choices are so mean-spirited I have never once tweeted something mean back to him or you're this or you're that and I can't nothing maybe confusion but the fact that all he wants to do is any opportunity he can get to drag me he's doing it to the point where like I'm afraid for my job I'm afraid for the life I've built I have lost everything I lost my career I lost the family I loved I lost my self-confidence I lost lost my will to live to then finally choose myself and fight for myself because that's where it starts you can't have other people do it for you you got to do it yourself and that's hard to choose yourself and I think a lot of people watching this can also understand it's hard to get up and say you're worth it you deserve better so do it to have fought so hard to have done so much therapy to have become so consistently sober three and a half more than three and a half years to change careers completely to start from the bottom to live at my mom's house for three and a half years one to take care of my mom and to be there for her but also I needed it I needed to heal I needed to find myself again and my mom gave me that opportunity and I am forever grateful for my mother to finally take a step out on my own and say I'm doing this and I'm going to get my wife a house I can do it because I have this job and it's a great job and I've worked hard to learn how to do this new type of job I've only done entertainment my whole life and because of all this it's not a safe place for me at all everything that made me come alive is gone I didn't I don't want to perform I don't want to sing I don't want anyone to look at me I don't want to do this I don't want to have this conversation I don't want to be on camera you had indicated that you were not going to return essentially to content creation there's no part of me that wants this to send me off into a new Direction with YouTube I don't want it it doesn't make me happy it makes me terrified there's a poison in seeking validation and being relevant it's a constant thing you always have to fight for I don't want to do that anymore I want my life and my wife in the job that I love that I I am finally doing so well in in my little dog in my little tiny house not some big mansion I don't have that life anymore I don't want it to have fought so hard to get here to then have someone not give two shits if their words affect me or not when he knows so much of this is embellished and misleading I even begged him in one of my initial messages listen man I just I just want to live my life it feels like right as I'm coming back up for air for the first time you want to set fire and burn me down all over again I've been through this and I made it out it's triggering for the first time I'm not I'm not driving by a liquor store saying I Gotta Have It but that thing in me is saying maybe maybe all of this effort is pointless maybe all this work that you put in is pointless because someone will still find a way you'll still be second fiddle you'll always fail and it doesn't matter what you have to say about it I'm not gonna lie I'm not even sure I would have asked Joshua these next few questions knowing what I know now but I've decided to leave them in for full transparency we knew John had lied to us to some degree but we're still in the process at the time of figuring out just how much he had lied to us so at this time I really wanted healing between these two men especially since John kind of left the door open for that possibility at the end of our interview although he kind of flipped and flopped and flipped I don't really know but I highly doubt that Joshua is interested in mending this fence now especially after part three but to be fair to me I really just wanted to see how Joshua's answer would look to this next question and his answer was quite interesting I asked Johnny what he wants from you and people online have been asking Johnny what do you want from Joshua from you and he had and again I'm just paraphrasing here I can't directly quote I don't remember it immediately off the top of my head but I think the one thing that he kind of landed on was that he wanted a phone call to talk to you he just explained it as kind of a man-to-man phone call one-to-one phone call looking at my notes Here what upset him the most was that after seven years that you sent him a Twitter DM yeah we've obviously heard your thoughts about the nature of how you viewed the the relationship and you discussing boundaries and things and going through the divorce which I do think you know is important for people to regardless of where people's Allegiance where they want it to lie in this story which is exceptionally nuanced it's probably the most nuanced story that I've ever covered that's why we've taken so much time to to look into all of this because it is there's just so many pieces here he said a phone call it sounded like he wanted that chance to just talk to you and not get a Twitter DM why would he expect me to call him when for the past few years before all this happened he's out there dragging my name publicly calling me a little that he would say it to my face more than that plenty more why would he expect now for me to be like you know what he deserves a phone call why would I pick up a phone when you've already been dragging my name through the mud when I've never said anything ill towards you or about you again the audacity what do you you expect me okay here I go again let me be the bigger person again so many times in my life I feel like I always have to like go through the the growing pains and no one else does it's always me I gotta face it nobody else has to face it they just get away with everything and it's like to me yeah if if you if I had not seen those things if I not seen you dragging me for the last few years maybe I would have thought I don't have his number but I'll ask for it I lost it years ago but I already I the word was all up in my head so the fact that I still reached out and still sympathized with him and still spoke from the heart and all he did was take that and make content out of it shows me exactly where his head is at now and where it was then and where it continues to be everything out of his mouth seems opportunistic and it seems if there's a way for him to take something about me and amplify it and make it even worse and to bring attention to every single thing I do and damn everything that I say or do and make it about him then he's out that's where he wants to be right now and he wants to be man-to-man I don't think he understands what that means because a man doesn't do what he does I'm willing to acknowledge and I have and I will continue to acknowledge my faults my shortcomings my selfishness my bad behavior years ago I'm man enough to face it he wants everything in his own favor he wants to be able to say what he wants do what he wants get all the acclimation get all the followers he wants he wants all of that and then to also say I just want a man-to-man conversation no you don't you've not shown any type of behavior that shows that to me that you don't come off to me as a man-to-man you come off as someone who wants to see me suffer you want to see me suffer you're saying things are just so utterly mean about everything it's not just about our interactions he tears apart everything I've ever done my music my shows parts of who I am he's tried to destroy every part of me who else did that clean and I'm supposed to say cool man to man let's have a chat and be okay in what world do you live in like I want to I want to come off like I'm okay and this is fine and let's end on a positive note but this is hard this is really hard and I don't feel like it's fair and I will say to him a thousand times I'm sorry for hurting you and I'm sorry that by me distancing myself brought so much pain to you and you interpret it in a way that has lasting effects I will say it a billion more times but I will not sit back and say cool say whatever you want control the narrative profit off of it I'm not profiting off of any of this I'm not making a dime I'm not trying to spin it to get something for myself he says everything I'm doing is performative what part of this am I am I getting out of it what good stuff am I getting out of it I'm just getting more criticism more finger pointing more he's only doing this for XYZ I can't say I'm damned if I say something and I'm damned if I don't say something I don't win not that I want to win and someone loses all I'm trying to do is be authentic and be real and be compassionate and all of it is rejected and twisted he's doing what Colleen Did he's using fans younger people and painting a picture of me and then he's sending them out just like it happened in 2016 2017 2018 2019 years and now he's doing it I'm getting those same kind of comments now the DMs I get I'm I'm happy I'm sober and I don't drink because if it was back then and I got these comments it would have sent me right back to that bottle but not anymore I want my life and I want to protect it my wife deserves it my little dog deserves it I feel I feel riled up right now but it's only because I want to protect my little bubble my little private bubble where I make little tiny videos on Instagram about going to Home Depot that's all I'm doing I'm not making money off of that it's just all of it feels wrong it doesn't feel right and once again I feel like I either just tucked my tail and just accept that people are going to say what they're gonna say and drag me once again or I try to somewhere find the middle ground I'm not a saint I'm not perfect I know I messed up but I've done so much work to write those wrongs I don't see anybody else popping up and taking accountability it's not easy I was the one rejected in the first place and here I am again saying I did these things and it's like it just doesn't matter it's hard to feel like when you're a kid and you think you don't matter because someone tells you you don't matter and then you're 39 and all of a sudden you've got tons of DMS telling you how you are like you don't matter I wouldn't wish that on him if you could sum up what you're feeling in one word what would that be so many words afraid I'm afraid I've been afraid of her for years and what she was capable of doing and what she did afraid of now losing everything that I worked so hard for in a very genuine heartfelt way no manipulation no Shady stuff just trying to do the right thing and work hard I'm afraid this is my life let me ask you one more question one word yes or no have you forgiven Colleen [Music] no no one's ever asked do you think I feel terrible say you don't have to feel terrible for saying what you feel she's never shown me remorse it I I don't forgive her but I also do my darndest not to the not even let across my mind I don't want to think about her and at this point I'm very happy that I don't need it anymore I have what I need if you were to give one final statement to the public who's watching this what would you want to say I don't care how old you are if you're a kid a teen College a parent when you seek the validation of an influencer rather than the people that are truly in her life that's a road that becomes dangerous that will lead to only pain and feeling let down value those in your life that truly show up not just enjoy the clicks and not enjoy what your view does for them there are a lot of mistakes I made but I know there are a lot more that could have been done that has been done from other people and I plead to anyone watching this seek strength in yourself validation in yourself and the people that are around you and if you don't have someone around you don't seek your validation from a social media person a celebrity they might care about you but they can't you're not their family as much as that illusion exists it's dangerous parents watch what your kids are doing pay attention ask them say can I see your phone don't be their best friend protect them because these influencers me included did not protect them before so please think about them first and any influencers that might come across this and hate watch because I'm on it you have an opportunity to make things better choose those things you have an opportunity when you see things are wrong and that you could be complicit like I did step up go through the growing pains and say this is not right being complicit to me can be just as damning as doing pulling the trigger yourself I understand that because I did it and I have to carry that regardless of where you know this this whole story lands ultimately uh like I said at the beginning I think your perspective your context uh sharing your story I believe that you have the right to do so and I appreciate you talking with me sitting down here I know this wasn't easy and I think your words at the end there are as complicated and as nuanced as they are given your history with all of these things and also things that are being said about you I think that's those are important words for people to hear so I appreciate you sharing that there was one quote I said on my Twitter and I stand by it now you don't have to be perfect to do the right thing thank you so start now that's why I'm trying I'm trying day after day so thank you for the opportunity and thank you for sitting down with me yeah this is the only one I'm doing I'm not gonna go anywhere else and I I value how you create these things in your perspective in your professionalism everyone you've brought into this mix I just you've handled me with the kind of care that I have not experienced in years and I just it means more than I can express in words so my only hope is that everyone involved in this story finds some healing at the end of the day everyone is on their own Journey they have their own feelings I will always stand by that and I just hope everyone finds healing and that includes you I appreciate that yeah and I hope they find that too all right thank you thank you I want to take a moment before I give my final thoughts to this series and thank you all for being open enough to allow these very nuanced and complex conversations to be had Joshua did not have to come here and speak with me but he did Pamela did not have to share her heart but she did in reality there have been so many people involved in this story who have opened themselves up to share their stories with me throughout this entire docu-series people like Adam Becky Oliver Alex Ella Bella sof and others being open being vulnerable no matter how difficult it may be is not easy for anyone and My Hope throughout this series is that we can start to approach these topics the way that Pamela hopes for with compassion accountability where needed honesty and Humanity now accountability is a layered word and its actions are open to interpretation depending on how we as individuals decide to view it again I am just on the side of hoping that the truth can be be discovered that healing can be found and that maybe as a community we can make an impactful change in how these stories are told even when it hurts it's why I'm so grateful to each and every one of you watching for taking your time to explore this nuanced portrait of so many individuals no matter where someone in this story lands whether they remain in the shadows with their actions or step into the light I think one thing is certain there's a lot to be learned here and hopefully the path forward for these people who are hurting becomes more and more clear by the day always please excuse the brief tone shift as a bit of a palette cleanser and then I will conclude all of this with my final thoughts you can be sure to grab your pieces from the brand new Petty University valid collection by tapping the link below and in the pinned comment I truly believe you're going to love these pieces as much as I do and I hope they are a constant reminder of just how powerful Brave and valid you are and I can't wait to start seeing your outfit photos please do tag me on Instagram so I can repost you that is also linked below I'm also launching a brand new second channel that you can subscribe to right now well I'll be producing entirely new docs on truly mind-bending topics as well as interviews I hope you will join me over there it is also linked below be sure to check my link below at kenzie.com and use code swoop2 to get 20 off your Kenzie IPL device because you deserve it honey foreign I want to Echo some of the sentiments that I've had throughout covering this story over the last three months which is my belief that the Colleen Ballinger universe and the actions of a few have had widespread lasting negative effects on so many people almost too many to count at this point when I first pitched this story to my team the three of us set out with One Singular goal here to get to the bottom of this story figure out the pain it has caused so many find the truth and try to present that truth in hopes that maybe we can start to have healthier conversations around these topics so that hopefully in time everyone involved can find healing and the support that they need I never imagined that the story would pan out the way that it did I never imagined that halfway through this I would even be pulled in covering this story has been one of the most mentally emotionally and physically draining experiences I have ever had and that goes for my team as well the gaslighting the manipulation the uncertainty of who we could and who we couldn't trust with information as our investigation went deeper and deeper became almost overwhelming and even with that in mind my experience here my team's experience still pales in comparison to the experiences of those who I always want to keep front and center Adam Becky Oliver Ella Bella Alex Soph April and all of the anonymous Witnesses who have come forward privately and publicly they have experienced a level of hurt exhaustion confusion empowerment vulnerability and bravery that I can only try to comprehend and through it all they remained steadfast in their truths no matter what the world did or didn't say even in the face of Colleen Ballinger denying them the accountability that they asked for and the fact of the matter is more information could come out about a Colleen or Corey or John or Josh or anyone directly involved in this story and if it does my team and I will be there to analyze it but for the time being Joshua came here like many others and shared his story his pain his participation in causing pain and ultimately his hopes for everyone involved and the protection of future generations and while it's not my place to accept his words on behalf of the others I do hope at the very least when all is said and done as we refocus back on everyone I listed that it might bring everyone it may be just one step closer to True healing when the time is right for them so thank you all for watching for giving me the space to share this story be good to each other hold each other up and I will see you in the next one bye [Music]